Keep dreaming. Get back to me once OpenOffice adds an outline mode to Writer. The bug for outline mode has been open since 2002. OpenOffice is pretty good, but there are some basic features that MS Office got right and I miss not having it around because of them.
I think it'll be an incredible boon for multi-player when people are able to look for groups in one game while playing another.
Please explain how this will be a boon. Unless my friend in WoW can bring his barbarian into SC2 to help me smash zerg, I don't see how it'll be helpful.
Not to mention that one of the marketing points of Linux is that it will run on the older hardware you have laying around, unlike a certain other OS.
First, Linux != Ubuntu. Just because Linux can be stripped down to require little resources doesn't mean that Ubuntu has light resource requirements. Second, there are other Linux distros that are better suited for older hardware such as Xubuntu, Puppy, Damn Small Linux, and Ubuntu Netbook Remix. Maybe even a minimum Debian or CentOS install. The resource requirements for Ubuntu keep growing. There are a lot of daemons that are run to bring up and support a modern desktop environment and those come with a cost. Ubuntu is a state-of-the-art distro and having modern hardware is not an unreasonable expectation for getting adequate usability out of it.
Removing 32-bit for no reason other than "But 64 bit is newer!" wouldn't benefit anyone other than NetBSD uptake stats.
I don't buy that argument for a minute. Distros rip out perfectly working stuff and replace it with something else just because it's newer all of the time. PulseAudio and KDE 4.0 are just two recent examples that come to mind. But that's to be expected. Ubuntu pushes the state of the art. Fedora does as well. You have to expect some problems and breakage with those. You also have to expect that you're not going to be able to run those distros adequately on a 2003 Pentium 3 or 4 with 512 megs of RAM. You'll need more resources, and therefore newer hardware, to really take advantage of those distros.
Contrast this with Debian which is more conservative. Debian stuck with KDE 3 for Lenny because there were problems with KDE 4. Now that KDE 4 is stable the conservative distros will adopt it. The same goes for RHEL/CentOS. More conservative distros, less likely to need bleeding edge hardware to get the most out of the OS, and more likely to work on older hardware.
I run the results of wget through a custom Perl script and then parse the results and feed image URLs back through wget and into libjpeg. Why do I need a bloated web browser when I have such an elegant Unix solution?
I've got a 'legacy' machine on the right with XP and an Nvidia GForce 5600, also 32 bit, that is even more useful, being a Pentium.
Windows XP is not a leading edge linux distribution. It's not even linux which is what I was talking about.
You are about 4 years too early to even begin to talk about end-of-life for 32 bit.
I didn't say anything about end-of-life for 32-bits. I only mentioned dropping support for 32-bit in distros that are leading edge such as Ubuntu. Those distros really seek to push the state of Linux desktop environments. The software they include is always the latest which invariably means greater hardware requirements. They are experimenting with new ideas. Moving to 64-bits-only fits well with that philosophy of pushing the state-of-the-art in Linux distros. There are plenty of more conservative distros that may support 32-bits for many years to come.
I couldn't really find numbers, but I supect ditching 32 bit would entail throwing out at least half of the computers currently in use...
Then run a 32-bit operating system on those computers such as the non-Linux XP you mentioned or a 32-bit linux distro.
I don't have the numbers to back it up, but I'm fairly certain that a sufficiently large portion of computers use 32-bit to make your presumption completely infeasible for the next few years.
Please explain how. All 32-bit operating systems will not disappear overnight nor have I proposed that they do so.
They were still selling 32-bit machines two years ago, and people can't reasonably be expected to retire those machines until 2011, and many will still be perfectly useful until 2013 or even 2015 with a few repairs.
No one is asking them to retire them. The linux landscape is vast. There will still be 32-bit operating systems for quite some time.
Meanwhile, you can keep on living in your fantasy world where hardware can magically upgrade itself to run the latest and greatest software.
Are you implying that you've never had to upgrade hardware before to run the latest and greatest software? I know the Ubuntu of today uses more resources than the Ubuntu of five years ago. Since Canonical only supports their desktop versions of Ubuntu for a maximum of three years, it's very likely that some computers that ran Ubuntu fine in 2004-2005 will be unable to run the latest version while providing adequate usability for the user. As time moves on, users of that hardware may be forced to seek a distro that uses less resources and will work better for them.
Yes, hardware doesn't magically upgrade itself, but if you want to run the latest and greatest, state-of-the-art distro, chances are you're going to have to upgrade your hardware to keep up with the resource requirements of that distro. In that light, requiring 64-bits for, say, Ubuntu 10.04 does not seem like an unreasonable requirement.
There is *NO FUCKING REASON* for a POS cash register to need 64 bit hardware or software.
I agree wholeheartedly. That's why those POS cash registers shouldn't be running a leading edge distro like Ubuntu. I imagine there will still be many 32-bit-only linux distros years from now. One of those distros might be better suited for a cash register or the manufacturer might decided to compile a linux environment customized to their needs.
Can someone explain the particular benefits of having a 64-bit browser?
For the same reason that text editors might be 32 or 64-bit and not 16-bit. It's what the OS and hardware directly supports. Most computers shipped in the last four or five years are 64-bit and can support 64-bit operating systems. Even Microsoft has said that Windows 7 will be their last operating system to support 32-bit. It makes sense to start developing native 64-bit versions of software instead of sticking with 32-bit and using a compatibility library or layer to further complicate things or possibly screw up or need to debug. There's no direct benefit other than it's the native number of bits for your hardware, but that makes it the right thing to do.
This is why I think leading edge distros like Ubuntu should stop supporting 32-bit and only distribute 64-bit versions of their distros. The only computers that still are 32-bit are either embedded systems or older legacy computers. We need to move on.
Folks don't care that MP3 is encumbered because it works for them
Another point is that MP3 will no longer be encumbered in a few years when the patents expire. That's another reason for people to not care about MP3 versus other audio codecs.
Oh, so the first TWO SENTENCES didn't tip you off to it not being VoIP, eh?:)
:-) Someone obviously has edited it since he posted his message. If you look at the Wikipedia history for that article you can see that it said something very different when maharb posted. His confusion is understandable.
Ah. I had never looked at the help. I interpreted Gizmo using the dictionary definition: A mechanical device or part whose name is forgotten or unknown; a gadget.
Since the service is called Gizmo5 then the dropdown should say Gizmo5.
That wikipedia article is misleading. Google Voice probably uses VOIP on the back end to tie things together, but it doesn't terminate via VOIP. You have to have a regular phone number for Google Voice to work. There's no way to talk on the computer like with Skype. You can place a call using the Google Voice web site, but all it does is ask you which one of your phones you want it to call. It then rings your phone and when you answer, it calls the other party.
Also, I don't believe one bit that it uses zero bandwidth. Unless I am having a huge brain fart, all the research I have done says that it does indeed use bandwidth which is also intuitive. You can't transmit voice without using bandwidth.
You are definitely having a brain fart. Google Voice is not a VOIP application. Communication is done on phones via regular phone calls. There's no VOIP component to it. AT&T gets paid because when you place or receive a call via Google Voice, it's a regular phone call and you are using your minutes that you have paid for.
Which you are paying for. Google Voice IS NOT A VOICE OVER IP APPLICATION. Calls are placed and received over regular phone lines. You are still paying AT&T for the minutes you are using when you receive a call forwarded from your Google Voice number.
Maybe the reviewer didn't appreciate the type of humor in the book. I read Hitchhikers' Guide to the Galaxy years ago and didn't find it to be very funny, so maybe I will find this one funny instead.
Can someone tell me what Google Wave is? The video on the page is over an hour long which is a lot to sit through to just to find out what this slashdot article is about.
Slashdot Mirror
Keep dreaming. Get back to me once OpenOffice adds an outline mode to Writer. The bug for outline mode has been open since 2002. OpenOffice is pretty good, but there are some basic features that MS Office got right and I miss not having it around because of them.
Or as IPv6 is deployed those IPv4 blocks become worthless.
We could last for decades by eating military rations, but it'd be a miserable experience. The sooner NAT can die the better.
Please explain how this will be a boon. Unless my friend in WoW can bring his barbarian into SC2 to help me smash zerg, I don't see how it'll be helpful.
First, Linux != Ubuntu. Just because Linux can be stripped down to require little resources doesn't mean that Ubuntu has light resource requirements. Second, there are other Linux distros that are better suited for older hardware such as Xubuntu, Puppy, Damn Small Linux, and Ubuntu Netbook Remix. Maybe even a minimum Debian or CentOS install. The resource requirements for Ubuntu keep growing. There are a lot of daemons that are run to bring up and support a modern desktop environment and those come with a cost. Ubuntu is a state-of-the-art distro and having modern hardware is not an unreasonable expectation for getting adequate usability out of it.
I don't buy that argument for a minute. Distros rip out perfectly working stuff and replace it with something else just because it's newer all of the time. PulseAudio and KDE 4.0 are just two recent examples that come to mind. But that's to be expected. Ubuntu pushes the state of the art. Fedora does as well. You have to expect some problems and breakage with those. You also have to expect that you're not going to be able to run those distros adequately on a 2003 Pentium 3 or 4 with 512 megs of RAM. You'll need more resources, and therefore newer hardware, to really take advantage of those distros.
Contrast this with Debian which is more conservative. Debian stuck with KDE 3 for Lenny because there were problems with KDE 4. Now that KDE 4 is stable the conservative distros will adopt it. The same goes for RHEL/CentOS. More conservative distros, less likely to need bleeding edge hardware to get the most out of the OS, and more likely to work on older hardware.
There already is. It's called Ubuntu Netbook Remix. The Ubuntu dsitro could be 64-bit only while the Ubuntu Netbook Remix distro could be 32-bit.
Ah ha! I always suspected that RMS read Slashdot. Now my suspicions are confirmed. :-)
Really!
Windows XP is not a leading edge linux distribution. It's not even linux which is what I was talking about.
I didn't say anything about end-of-life for 32-bits. I only mentioned dropping support for 32-bit in distros that are leading edge such as Ubuntu. Those distros really seek to push the state of Linux desktop environments. The software they include is always the latest which invariably means greater hardware requirements. They are experimenting with new ideas. Moving to 64-bits-only fits well with that philosophy of pushing the state-of-the-art in Linux distros. There are plenty of more conservative distros that may support 32-bits for many years to come.
Then run a 32-bit operating system on those computers such as the non-Linux XP you mentioned or a 32-bit linux distro.
Please explain how. All 32-bit operating systems will not disappear overnight nor have I proposed that they do so.
No one is asking them to retire them. The linux landscape is vast. There will still be 32-bit operating systems for quite some time.
Are you implying that you've never had to upgrade hardware before to run the latest and greatest software? I know the Ubuntu of today uses more resources than the Ubuntu of five years ago. Since Canonical only supports their desktop versions of Ubuntu for a maximum of three years, it's very likely that some computers that ran Ubuntu fine in 2004-2005 will be unable to run the latest version while providing adequate usability for the user. As time moves on, users of that hardware may be forced to seek a distro that uses less resources and will work better for them.
Yes, hardware doesn't magically upgrade itself, but if you want to run the latest and greatest, state-of-the-art distro, chances are you're going to have to upgrade your hardware to keep up with the resource requirements of that distro. In that light, requiring 64-bits for, say, Ubuntu 10.04 does not seem like an unreasonable requirement.
I agree wholeheartedly. That's why those POS cash registers shouldn't be running a leading edge distro like Ubuntu. I imagine there will still be many 32-bit-only linux distros years from now. One of those distros might be better suited for a cash register or the manufacturer might decided to compile a linux environment customized to their needs.
I'm using 64-bit Ubuntu with Adobe 64-bit version of Flash and it works just fine.
For the same reason that text editors might be 32 or 64-bit and not 16-bit. It's what the OS and hardware directly supports. Most computers shipped in the last four or five years are 64-bit and can support 64-bit operating systems. Even Microsoft has said that Windows 7 will be their last operating system to support 32-bit. It makes sense to start developing native 64-bit versions of software instead of sticking with 32-bit and using a compatibility library or layer to further complicate things or possibly screw up or need to debug. There's no direct benefit other than it's the native number of bits for your hardware, but that makes it the right thing to do.
This is why I think leading edge distros like Ubuntu should stop supporting 32-bit and only distribute 64-bit versions of their distros. The only computers that still are 32-bit are either embedded systems or older legacy computers. We need to move on.
Another point is that MP3 will no longer be encumbered in a few years when the patents expire. That's another reason for people to not care about MP3 versus other audio codecs.
:-) Someone obviously has edited it since he posted his message. If you look at the Wikipedia history for that article you can see that it said something very different when maharb posted. His confusion is understandable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Google_Voice&oldid=308985223
Ah. I had never looked at the help. I interpreted Gizmo using the dictionary definition: A mechanical device or part whose name is forgotten or unknown; a gadget.
Since the service is called Gizmo5 then the dropdown should say Gizmo5.
True, but I see that as a hidden easter egg more than a declared feature.
That wikipedia article is misleading. Google Voice probably uses VOIP on the back end to tie things together, but it doesn't terminate via VOIP. You have to have a regular phone number for Google Voice to work. There's no way to talk on the computer like with Skype. You can place a call using the Google Voice web site, but all it does is ask you which one of your phones you want it to call. It then rings your phone and when you answer, it calls the other party.
For that matter are there any plans that allow unlimited incoming minutes? I've never heard of such a plan in the US.
You are definitely having a brain fart. Google Voice is not a VOIP application. Communication is done on phones via regular phone calls. There's no VOIP component to it. AT&T gets paid because when you place or receive a call via Google Voice, it's a regular phone call and you are using your minutes that you have paid for.
Which you are paying for. Google Voice IS NOT A VOICE OVER IP APPLICATION. Calls are placed and received over regular phone lines. You are still paying AT&T for the minutes you are using when you receive a call forwarded from your Google Voice number.
What bandwidth? A few XMl queries back to a server? It probably would transfer less data than the average web page.
Maybe the reviewer didn't appreciate the type of humor in the book. I read Hitchhikers' Guide to the Galaxy years ago and didn't find it to be very funny, so maybe I will find this one funny instead.
They're a manufacturer of chair building materials. I hear that Steve Ballmer is a customer.
I have. It's a hoot. Maybe you just don't appreciate their brand of humor.
I'm still not sure what this guy did wrong other than offer a convenient service to gamblers.
Can someone tell me what Google Wave is? The video on the page is over an hour long which is a lot to sit through to just to find out what this slashdot article is about.