As a (put on sysadmin hat) system administrator, my natural inclination is to not trust things that haven't proven themselves. That is one reason why I don't use NT now, and wouldn't use NT5 for mission-critical things when it comes out, regardless of how stable Microsoft says it is.
Similarly, based on the fact that Apple has only had experience making single-user non-memory-protected operating systems that sell mainly because they are easy-to-learn and look pretty, I refuse to switch my machines from BSD, Solaris, and Linux to Mac OS/X... at least not straight away. Apple has not proven to me yet that it can make a good server.
Things like this deepen my lack of respect for the operating system for doing mission-critical things. A server should NEVER fail. Ever. Now, I know that my operating systems haven't done that. I have had crashes now and then. But BSD, Solaris, and Linux come darn close to never, ever crashing. They certainly wouldn't crash just by running a bunch of CGIs.
Yes, I know this was a test scenario. Yes, I know that ordinary use might not run 32 cgi programs (or whatever) at the same time. That's no excuse for a kernel panic!
I hope Apple patches whatever bug caused this. I hope that OS X server becomes a great and reliable server. But please forgive me if I say I don't trust it now, nor will I for quite a while.
Re:Windows CE does this now...
on
PDA+MP3 Player
·
· Score: 2
Ram, sound, and color display does not a useful PDA make.
People like the PalmPilots not because they are technically superior but because they work well. They are handy, easy-to-use, and fairly powerful for what they are designed for.
WinCE is not nearly as good of an environment for a PDA as PalmOS is.
And, as mentioned above, the Palm series gets long battery life -- which is one reason why I'm getting a PV this summer and NOT a WinCE machine.
So you're saying that you prefer your 89 over a calculator you've never used?
I used to think that the TI's were better... but after you use an HP you will find that doing math on the stack is so much nicer. I hate it when I have to borrow a calculator and it's not RPN.
Seriously, Here at Georgia Tech, and from what my Grandfather tells me (a Civil Engineer at UIUC) very few people use non-hp calculators. Doing math on the stack is just that useful.
And, if you don't get used to the stack, you can always type in the equation in double-quotes and hit eval.
2.0.* aren't necessarily compatable or stable. 2.1.* is compatable with each other.
I mean, would You want to trust every program to something with the version number 2.0.7pre6?
I've seen a lot of problems with people who say ``I can't run that, I've installed glibc2.1'' or ``That's compiled for 2.1 and I just have 2.0.''
What I suggest is have your server run libc5 with linuxthreads and then add your glibc runtime of choice. When things settle down in the 2.1 series of libc, then switch to that.
Hmm... that's what slackware does.
Anyway, I like slackware, it feels like home. Isn't the nice thing about free unicies is that we can all get along?
Naaa... Phil Zimmerman says there are no backdoors or key escrow ``features'' in PGP. It also no longer uses RSA except for backwards compatability. PGP is exported using lots o' books of source code (with nifty checksums and stuff to aid in scanning) and is available for peer review...
The T is always returned to the school; usually given as a gift to a retiring prof or something.
And it's so much more of a challenge than putting stuff up on a building... I mean, we put a hula hoop on top of the Shaft soon after it was put up... but it's too easy.
More fun: doing research on creating a detergent capable of passing through the shaft's fountain's filtration system!
Does this mean that my Motorola TTL manual is going to be obsolete? Surely they won't change the pinouts on the good ol' 74LS00 quad 2-input NAND gate chip!
So, we're trying to get DSL right outside Georgia Tech, about three blocks from the BS tower, and they can't get us DSL. We really want DSL. But they can't even figure out who to talk to to see when our area will be upgraded to allow for DSL...
The main reason why the K6-[123] had poor FPU performance was that the FPU unit wasn't pipelined. So while if you had to do one FPU instruction every once in a while, it was pretty fast (faster than chugging through the entire Intel pipeline) if you had to do a bunch of FPU calculations, it started going really slow, as it could only work on one at a time. Now the K7 has multiple FPU pipelines, so a whole bunch of floating-point instructions can be going all at once. Which lets it keep up with the P-II/III.
I'd like an alpha, except I hear Mozilla has big problems with the 64-bit architecture. That, and x86 chips are so darn cheap.
The P3 cache infrastructure looks much nicer. More associativity in the L1 cache (still small, however), and the L2 is at 1/3 chip speed. The latter might not be too bad, if I recall the instruction fetch was fairly pipelined and many outstanding memory fetches were allowed.
I wonder if AMD is planning on moving the L2 on-chip and upping the L1L2 speed. That would be nice. DRAM sucks, it's way to slow.
What I really want to know is where they got those G400's and when they will become available. And how well they work under X.:-)
It's a little easier to secure a SUN console, as you can disable lots of stuff in the PROM and set a password... and you can't zap it with a jumper like you can on PCs...
libc6 threads? What are those? Oh, you mean linuxthreads, the almost-ported pthreads library, which comes in glibc2, which is known as libc6 on linux machines.
So, you really mean that you should use pthreads. I could see that. But pthreads aren't nearly so platform-independant as fork() is.
Based on your post... in fact, based on your subject, I'd say that every one of the Apache Group's programmers are better programmers than you.
Let me count the ways:
You claim that ``libc6'' (posix) threads are ``real threads'' implying that fork() does not make ``real threads''. Procesess are definately real threads, except they have more overhead. In fact, the terminology for pthread and pthread-type threading architectures on unix-like machines (such as pthreads or solaris threads on solaris) is ``lightweight threads'' or ``lightweight processes.'' They are just like other processes except that they don't have the overhead of things like seperate page table, process id blocks, memory spaces, etc. Both lightweight (pthread) and heavyweight (process) get swapped with the kernel scheduler, however. And you should also remember that pages are only copied on write, so the actual memory footprint difference isn't all that great.
You say that limits on the number of threads is a bad thing. Of course this shows you lack both programming and system administration knowledge. If there was no cap on the number of threads, process or otherwise, it would be trivial to make a denial-of-service attack that would render the machine useless. And setting an arbitrary cap in the code is rather silly, as some architectures allow for more copies of the server running at the same time.
You say that having lots of options is a ``DUMB'' way to do things. I'd say the opposite. Having software choose your options for you makes an idiot out of the user. Configurability of almost everything is one of the greatest strengths of UNIX software. While YOU may not think that some option is necessary, it may make a huge difference in functionality for someone else. Apache has good defaults for the typical small web server. It has configurability if you need high performance or very-low footprint.
Tell you what, rather than complain about the Apache Group's informed decision to NOT switch to pthreads, why don't you try to port to pthreads yourself? If the benefits are as great as you say, then I'm sure that your product would be a great asset to the community. I think that the Apache group has done a great job, that you overestimate the benefits of pthreads, and that the loss of portability by switching Apache to pthreads would be heartbreaking.
Not just unix... any machine or program that uses a 32 bit time_t based on Jan 1 1970 will die. And that includes many programs and OS's besides just unix. The difference is, we unix folk know it's coming.
You can not secure any system in which someone untrusted has administrative access.
You could firewall them, you could force them to all use redhat, but the computer still won't be secure until you force them to boot from the network and don't give 'em that precious root password. And (as stated above) the problem is not just with *nix systems. There are lots of people who are Back Orificed or whatnot; I know of some lame Win9x user who has an anonymous telnet server on his computer. With people this stupid, it's impossible to secure the systems.
Our health care system could be worse; we could have to pay for everyone's health care. Right now, we just have to pay for those to lazy or stupid to get a job and their own health insurance.
Why do people think they have the right to vote money out of my pocket? Damn it, I have earned my money. And I am irritated to no end that some schmuck who can't be bothered to get a job to get health insurance for his family or set aside money for retirement has the right to money that I've worked my butt off for.
If people can't afford kids, they shouldn't have kids. If people haven't saved up for retirement, they should get back into the work force. Don't make me pay for other's stupidity.
And I don't want to hear crap about medicine being too expensive. What doctors do is expensive, and that's that! If you want cheap medicine, eat well, get excercise, and take asprin. But if you want quadrouple-bypass surgery or spinal reconnection expect to pay some money! Hospitals have to pay for their equipment. Doctors have to repay what they lost in med school. And if there aren't enough doctors, then they have the right to ask for whatever salary they want!
Damn it, stop thinking that society owes you something. It doesn't. It doesn't owe you a free education, it doesn't owe you free medical miracles, it doesn't owe you a job, it doesn't owe you a place to live. Get a job that can pay for these things. And if you can't get a job that can afford these things, then you can (A) get another job or (B) get training so you can get a job that can.
Slackware installs with a/var/spool/mail/root that has a couple of messages in it. It doesn't *really* send you an email; you can verify by installing off a network. Email is still there.
Hey, CT... need to make use of that percent key and check to make sure those brackets match up.
Oh, and I worked for a private company this summer that did work for the military (made plane parts and stuff). Security is tight. Like, all classified information is on computers on a seperate network which is enclosed in a pressurized pipe system. You can't get to the network without changing the pressure and shutting down the network. All the computer rooms are metal lined to prevent eavesdropping.
I can't imagine that important stuff at the pentagon is any less secure. If you do crack into the pentagon from the internet you're probably not going to find much except personal emails from some secretary or some insecure scripts the webmaster uses. I seriously doubt that you're going to find top secret military documents or alien invasion plans.
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Similarly, based on the fact that Apple has only had experience making single-user non-memory-protected operating systems that sell mainly because they are easy-to-learn and look pretty, I refuse to switch my machines from BSD, Solaris, and Linux to Mac OS/X... at least not straight away. Apple has not proven to me yet that it can make a good server.
Things like this deepen my lack of respect for the operating system for doing mission-critical things. A server should NEVER fail. Ever. Now, I know that my operating systems haven't done that. I have had crashes now and then. But BSD, Solaris, and Linux come darn close to never, ever crashing. They certainly wouldn't crash just by running a bunch of CGIs.
Yes, I know this was a test scenario. Yes, I know that ordinary use might not run 32 cgi programs (or whatever) at the same time. That's no excuse for a kernel panic!
I hope Apple patches whatever bug caused this. I hope that OS X server becomes a great and reliable server. But please forgive me if I say I don't trust it now, nor will I for quite a while.
People like the PalmPilots not because they are technically superior but because they work well. They are handy, easy-to-use, and fairly powerful for what they are designed for.
WinCE is not nearly as good of an environment for a PDA as PalmOS is.
And, as mentioned above, the Palm series gets long battery life -- which is one reason why I'm getting a PV this summer and NOT a WinCE machine.
I used to think that the TI's were better... but after you use an HP you will find that doing math on the stack is so much nicer. I hate it when I have to borrow a calculator and it's not RPN.
Seriously, Here at Georgia Tech, and from what my Grandfather tells me (a Civil Engineer at UIUC) very few people use non-hp calculators. Doing math on the stack is just that useful.
And, if you don't get used to the stack, you can always type in the equation in double-quotes and hit eval.
I mean, would You want to trust every program to something with the version number 2.0.7pre6?
I've seen a lot of problems with people who say ``I can't run that, I've installed glibc2.1'' or ``That's compiled for 2.1 and I just have 2.0.''
What I suggest is have your server run libc5 with linuxthreads and then add your glibc runtime of choice. When things settle down in the 2.1 series of libc, then switch to that.
Hmm... that's what slackware does.
Anyway, I like slackware, it feels like home. Isn't the nice thing about free unicies is that we can all get along?
Anyway, GPG isn't a bad idea, either.
And it's so much more of a challenge than putting stuff up on a building... I mean, we put a hula hoop on top of the Shaft soon after it was put up... but it's too easy.
More fun: doing research on creating a detergent capable of passing through the shaft's fountain's filtration system!
Of course, changing anything on the Tech Tower requires skill, talent, planning, and most importantly, smarts, something which isn't found at UGA...
And yet, it has been done... although due to some bigmouth they got caught off campus...
Engineers rule.
Does this mean that my Motorola TTL manual is going to be obsolete? Surely they won't change the pinouts on the good ol' 74LS00 quad 2-input NAND gate chip!
So, we're trying to get DSL right outside Georgia
Tech, about three blocks from the BS tower, and
they can't get us DSL. We really want DSL.
But they can't even figure out who to talk to to
see when our area will be upgraded to allow for
DSL...
Have things changed a lot since then?
The main reason why the K6-[123] had poor FPU performance was that the FPU unit wasn't pipelined. So while if you had to do one FPU instruction every once in a while, it was pretty fast (faster than chugging through the entire Intel pipeline) if you had to do a bunch of FPU calculations, it started going really slow, as it could only work on one at a time. Now the K7 has multiple FPU pipelines, so a whole bunch of floating-point instructions can be going all at once. Which lets it keep up with the P-II/III.
I'd like an alpha, except I hear Mozilla has big problems with the 64-bit architecture. That, and x86 chips are so darn cheap.
I wonder if AMD is planning on moving the L2 on-chip and upping the L1L2 speed. That would be nice. DRAM sucks, it's way to slow.
What I really want to know is where they got those G400's and when they will become available. And how well they work under X. :-)
It's a little easier to secure a SUN console, as you can disable lots of stuff in the PROM and set a password... and you can't zap it with a jumper like you can on PCs...
So, you really mean that you should use pthreads. I could see that. But pthreads aren't nearly so platform-independant as fork() is.
Based on your post ... in fact, based on your subject, I'd say that every one of the Apache Group's programmers are better programmers than you.
Let me count the ways:
- You claim that ``libc6'' (posix) threads are ``real threads'' implying that fork() does not make ``real threads''. Procesess are definately real threads, except they have more overhead. In fact, the terminology for pthread and pthread-type threading architectures on unix-like machines (such as pthreads or solaris threads on solaris) is ``lightweight threads'' or ``lightweight processes.'' They are just like other processes except that they don't have the overhead of things like seperate page table, process id blocks, memory spaces, etc. Both lightweight (pthread) and heavyweight (process) get swapped with the kernel scheduler, however. And you should also remember that pages are only copied on write, so the actual memory footprint difference isn't all that great.
- You say that limits on the number of threads is a bad thing. Of course this shows you lack both programming and system administration knowledge. If there was no cap on the number of threads, process or otherwise, it would be trivial to make a denial-of-service attack that would render the machine useless. And setting an arbitrary cap in the code is rather silly, as some architectures allow for more copies of the server running at the same time.
- You say that having lots of options is a ``DUMB'' way to do things. I'd say the opposite. Having software choose your options for you makes an idiot out of the user. Configurability of almost everything is one of the greatest strengths of UNIX software. While YOU may not think that some option is necessary, it may make a huge difference in functionality for someone else. Apache has good defaults for the typical small web server. It has configurability if you need high performance or very-low footprint.
Tell you what, rather than complain about the Apache Group's informed decision to NOT switch to pthreads, why don't you try to port to pthreads yourself? If the benefits are as great as you say, then I'm sure that your product would be a great asset to the community. I think that the Apache group has done a great job, that you overestimate the benefits of pthreads, and that the loss of portability by switching Apache to pthreads would be heartbreaking.Not just unix... any machine or program that uses a 32 bit time_t based on Jan 1 1970 will die. And that includes many programs and OS's besides just unix. The difference is, we unix folk know it's coming.
The last time I used ``amblient 1'' to do all the lighting in my povray model. Looked very strange.
Ok, now is the emulator going to be released with the dev utils?
You could firewall them, you could force them to all use redhat, but the computer still won't be secure until you force them to boot from the network and don't give 'em that precious root password. And (as stated above) the problem is not just with *nix systems. There are lots of people who are Back Orificed or whatnot; I know of some lame Win9x user who has an anonymous telnet server on his computer. With people this stupid, it's impossible to secure the systems.
Why do people think they have the right to vote money out of my pocket? Damn it, I have earned my money. And I am irritated to no end that some schmuck who can't be bothered to get a job to get health insurance for his family or set aside money for retirement has the right to money that I've worked my butt off for.
If people can't afford kids, they shouldn't have kids. If people haven't saved up for retirement, they should get back into the work force. Don't make me pay for other's stupidity.
And I don't want to hear crap about medicine being too expensive. What doctors do is expensive, and that's that! If you want cheap medicine, eat well, get excercise, and take asprin. But if you want quadrouple-bypass surgery or spinal reconnection expect to pay some money! Hospitals have to pay for their equipment. Doctors have to repay what they lost in med school. And if there aren't enough doctors, then they have the right to ask for whatever salary they want!
Damn it, stop thinking that society owes you something. It doesn't. It doesn't owe you a free education, it doesn't owe you free medical miracles, it doesn't owe you a job, it doesn't owe you a place to live. Get a job that can pay for these things. And if you can't get a job that can afford these things, then you can (A) get another job or (B) get training so you can get a job that can.
Erich P
324678 Georgia Tech Station
Atlanta, GA
30332-1020
Once I recieve the check, I'll get the computer to you ASAP. I'll even throw in Next-Day air shipping for free!
What do you mean? Nintendo *did* release an inferior console... it doesn't do cdroms...
Slackware installs with a /var/spool/mail/root that has a couple of messages in it. It doesn't *really* send you an email; you can verify by installing off a network. Email is still there.
It's usually best to just go -O4 or -O6 with the correct arch and cpu...
Oh, and I worked for a private company this summer that did work for the military (made plane parts and stuff). Security is tight. Like, all classified information is on computers on a seperate network which is enclosed in a pressurized pipe system. You can't get to the network without changing the pressure and shutting down the network. All the computer rooms are metal lined to prevent eavesdropping.
I can't imagine that important stuff at the pentagon is any less secure. If you do crack into the pentagon from the internet you're probably not going to find much except personal emails from some secretary or some insecure scripts the webmaster uses. I seriously doubt that you're going to find top secret military documents or alien invasion plans.