here is a nice picture that will give both a current and historical perspective on AMD and Intel CPUs.
Please note that except where specified, the Intel processor wattage is given as an average, while the AMD wattage is their maximum thermal load.
The current top Athlon dissipates 76w max while the current Pentium 4 dissipates 82w average.
The Pentium 4's max is 101w.
Just in case you missed it, the Pentium 4's maximum heat dissipation is 101 watts.
Now that we have solved that matter, the reason the Xeon does not do to well in chess is that fritz is a single threaded floating point intensive task.
When the Pentium 4 architecture can not take advantage of Hyperthreading, it's floating point performance is quite marginal.
"We" have not cleared anything up. Shut your touchy, feely, non-researched, "quite superior at doing tasks that are very mundane and repetitive," patter up. You are spewing marketing crap like you own shares for god's sake.
Opteron is not innovative but it will take a 3.8 Ghz Xeon to match its performance. Remember Opteron? No, I know, you have been trying hard to forget. Shut your pie hole before any more hallucinogens fly in there without you knowing.
3DSMax 5.1 has been optimized for SSE2, which Opteron has in spades, twice as much as the Xeon, actually. It was also optimized to take advantage of The Pentium 4's bandwidth. Opteron has more bandwidth than Xeon, which shares it's bus.
Ace's hardware has an article up. Their benchmarks are showing Opteron beating Xeon by 20% in 3DSmax while Tom's has Xeon beating opteron by 25% in the same test.
Right-O, toss out tom with the rest of the paid for rabble and move on to less biased sites.
It gets worse, Dual channel was available for the Opteron, but not enabled. Also, and this one is not Tom's fault, the Opteron supports DDR400, but Tom used DDR333. The problem is the super limited supplies of DDR400 w/ECC,reg.
This is where the opteron with an 800mhz fsb with DDR333 ends up with less memory bandwidth than a Xeon with DDR266. The 533mhz bus Xeon used Dual Channel, giving it an effective 533 bus while the 800mhz bus Opteron was chokeing on 333mhz memory.
That is why the Opteron was falling down in the workstation benchmarks, because they tended to be bandwidth hogs.
Looking again, the opteron used 4 x 256 sticks of ram... 1 Gb not two.
Welcome to Intel, where if your laptop has a pentuim-M, an intel chipset and an Intel 802.11b card, you can call your laptop a Centrino. Oh, don't tell anyone that Apple has had the same functionality for three years, otherwise people would know we are not doing anything new, which we are!
For instance the new Pentium-M is an all new from the ground up processor that at 1.6 Ghz, outperforms the Pentium 4 at 2.8 Ghz. The Pentuim 4 is still faster than the Athlon though, becuase it has a higher clockspeed. Oh, and the Pentium-M is a Pentium III using a Pentium 4 bus and 1 mb of L2 Cache.
So, the Centrino is all new, using three year old technology pioneered by Apple and using a 4 year old processor that still manages to work over our all new Pentium 4.
At least the chipset is still good, just like Extreme(ly bad) graphics, Granite Bay with support for 8x AGP^H^H^H^H^H 4x AGP and the great i820 with a super reliable memory translator hub.
Umm....
OK! we have hotspots all over the world to use your brand new laptop with! Why, in China, an emerging market that we have invested billions in, there are 6 hotspots already! One for every 200,000,000 people...
OK, nevermind.. Centrino is just a PR campaign to sell the same warmed over crap we have been pushing for the last 5 years. Now shut up and buy it, were almost a monopoly again and we are not going to take your consumer crap when we have the market in a strangle hold again.
It will be just like the good old days when you all forked over $2000 for our latest steaming silicon turd.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety. Nor, are they likely to end up with either."
-- Benjamin Franklin
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first."
-- Thomas Jefferson
If you don't agree, you are not American.
I served 11 years in the US Army and I know EXACTLY what I was fighting for, The Constitution of the United States of America.
It looks to me like Heather Mac Donald doesn't feel like supporting the constitution.
China has a wonderful policy on privacy that she might like better than America's, and she is welcome to go there.
There, the state is safe but the its citizens are not. The state is safe at the expense of the citizens. Since a government derives it's just power from the consent of the governed, the chinese government is not considered to be a just government.
The chinese government is very close to being the type of government that Heather Mac Donald proposes our government become more like.
Re:+5 insightful. For shame, moderators, for shame
on
Are Programmers Engineers?
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
"Many engineers I have known have decades of programming experience, on bare metal, Fortran, and C++."
Then they are not engineers, they have distinguished themselves as being much more than that, even in your mind. They are programmers, obviously a cut above their engineer peers, which include you, since you did not say "I am an engineer but I also program C, Fortran, etc.".
The reality is, John Carmack, one the finest programmers alive, has gotten further as an aerospace engineer in two years than some engineers get during an entire career.
I know an aerospace engineer whose claim to fame, the pinnacle of his career, was to design the rear lavatory on the 737.
Not every engineer designs the Eiffel tower.
Not every programmer wrote the Linux kernel...hmm...
But where the Eiffel tower was designed by one man, the Linux kernel required the labor of thousands to get where it is today.
300 people built the Eiffel tower in 2 years and yes, it is true art, useless, it does nothing but make a good backdrop for postcards.
The Linux kernel on the other hand is quite useful, required the brilliant output from thousands of esteemed programmers as opposed to 300 ignorant laborers, is elegant and much more worthy of your inspired praise.
Don't worry, this is a parody of the trolls you were hoping not to feed. It's funny, laugh.
I am not answering you in the thread where I read your post, because I'm moderating that thread. So, go buy a new Alpha here
The company has government contracts that say it must produce the alpha untill 2006. It is alive and well. In fact it is 10% faster than HP's Itanium offering, the superdome line of servers.
Since HP's intent is to comply with the government contract but not reduce sales of their high margin, larger investment and similar contract with intel Itanium systems, they are not advertising it, posting benchmarks or supporting it (theoreticly they are supporting the hardware mut their support for TRU-64 is minnimal at best).
Prices of the 8 processors at 1224 mhz w/256 GB of ram start at 1/4 million dollars. The DS20E is a desktop workstation running dual 833mhz EV 68 processors.
The 8p version will finish a seti@home work unit every 4 minutes.
Influenza killed 20% of the world's population in 1917-1918. WWI was on so it got all the press. In the meantime bodies were being loaded into dump trucks to be placed in mass graves in central park.
So, when something new, different and deadly arrives, no one is immune and no medicine cures it.
That is why there is all the hype. Because this is very different from any of the hundreds of diseases you come in contact with every day, but are immune to.
That would be an interesting turn of events eh? I mean 20% of the world's population dieing in the next 9 months? Perhaps it is worth a little hype? Naw, better to stay cynical and assume you will be part of the 80% and not the 20%. Or your wife. Or your Kids. Or your parents. Or the people at burning man. Or the drummers on Salano. Or just one person on BART... then you will be next.
Smoking the herb tonight? THe drive you linked to transfers at 56 MB/s per second. The Maxtor drives used in LaCie's housing transfer at 60 MB/s. In a striped raid array, those disks would push 90 MB/s sustained transfer.
Buy the bare drives if you need the space. The houseing, along with firewire's limited performance, will gate the performance of these drives which otherwise could almost double the performance of the Lacie unit, at a significant discount in cost.
From the list of supporters of DRM and Palladium is VIA, with their complete eden platform including chipset and Samual cored C3 (cyrix) processor. Even the Slashdot crew's traditional favorites, such as AMD, have signed on.
This is a response to a bunch of posters who were modded up that misunderstand hammer architecture
"to have active cooling on the north bridge, too many new, high speed bus mobos are coming out right now with passive cooling that doesn't come close to making it easy to OC"
The chipset "Northbridge" does not get over clocked with the CPU using hyper transport. The memory controller is on the cpu. So you can increase the speed of the CPU and memory without affecting the chipset "Northbridge" at all. I used quotes around Northbridge because all the features that most people think of as being part of the Northbridge are in fact incorporated into the CPU.
"What, still only 32-bit PCI slots?:::yawn:::"
This motherboard contains a hyper transport to 32 bit PCI chip. Hyper transport runs at 6.4GB/s. PCI 32 is 133 MB/s. The manufacturer chose to use 32 bit PCI because this is a commodity board. Theoretically, a motherboard could include 6 PCI-X busses supporting 6 cards each before saturating the hyper transport bus.
Powerpoint Show about Hammer family architecture. "save target as".
I doubt that steel conducts the heat away too fast. I'd wager that the steel conducts the RF radiation itself. Just like this device has an antenna, steel would be an antenna too. Not exactly impedance matched, but certainly enough to prevent the steel from being heated except across the entire piece.
You only need to see one 300 pound halibut, 2000 pound moose, pumpkin the size of a truck, cabbage that you could roof your house with, ravens 4 feet tall, 30 pound king crab with 6 foot long legs and ouf course foot long buds to belive a story like this. I lived in Alaska 18 years and I do not doubt this one bit.
Opteron??? Higher than clawhammer considering the multiple hyper transport busses 1/2 mb L2 (compared to clawhammer's 256/512 l2) and dual on chip DDR memory controllers compared to Clawhammers single memory controller
Bootleg Powerpoint Presentation:
http://130.236.229.26/download/misc/AMD-Opteron. pp t
Includes a system that is an Opteron workstation dualed with a clawhammer that still presents itself as a single proc system. The clawhammer acts as a math co-processer:)
Slashdot Mirror
Are. you. licking. frogs? Again?
here is a nice picture that will give both a current and historical perspective on AMD and Intel CPUs.
Please note that except where specified, the Intel processor wattage is given as an average, while the AMD wattage is their maximum thermal load.
The current top Athlon dissipates 76w max while the current Pentium 4 dissipates 82w average.
The Pentium 4's max is 101w.
Just in case you missed it, the Pentium 4's maximum heat dissipation is 101 watts.
Now that we have solved that matter, the reason the Xeon does not do to well in chess is that fritz is a single threaded floating point intensive task.
When the Pentium 4 architecture can not take advantage of Hyperthreading, it's floating point performance is quite marginal.
"We" have not cleared anything up. Shut your touchy, feely, non-researched, "quite superior at doing tasks that are very mundane and repetitive," patter up. You are spewing marketing crap like you own shares for god's sake.
Opteron is not innovative but it will take a 3.8 Ghz Xeon to match its performance. Remember Opteron? No, I know, you have been trying hard to forget. Shut your pie hole before any more hallucinogens fly in there without you knowing.
You can always try pricewatch and look for a vendor that will ship to Europe.
q c= %22OPTERON%22*%20AND%20%40totalcost%3E0%20AND%20%4 0minorder=1&cr=opteron&ne=11693&l=1164 7
http://castle.pricewatch.com/search/search.idq?
3DSMax 5.1 has been optimized for SSE2, which Opteron has in spades, twice as much as the Xeon, actually. It was also optimized to take advantage of The Pentium 4's bandwidth. Opteron has more bandwidth than Xeon, which shares it's bus.
The numbers are junk because Tom's is junk.
Ace's hardware has an article up. Their benchmarks are showing Opteron beating Xeon by 20% in 3DSmax while Tom's has Xeon beating opteron by 25% in the same test.
Right-O, toss out tom with the rest of the paid for rabble and move on to less biased sites.
Another "Editorial Content Sponsorship" from tom.
Dual channel was available but not enabled.
The opteron uses an 800mhz memory bus.
But was chokeing on single channel DDR333
The Xeon was running Dual channel DDR266 or 533mhz effective.
Vast oversight (Intentional?) on Tom's part.
The Xbit labs clawhammer article shows the memory controller pushes at 97% of DDR400 theoretical maximum.
Now you know why all the "workstation apps" ran so poorly. They were all bandwidth intensive and Tom's ran the Opteron crippled.
That Duron is pumping 45w of heat....
Opteron is putting out 41w
Xeon 3.06 is putting out 81.9w
And the real beauty is, an XP 2400 cost $94 because of the opteron price war.
Reaganomics lives in tech land.
All the good stuff trickles down to us eventually.
So Centrino running at 1.6 Ghz but outperforming the 2.8 Ghz Pentium 4 is invalid?
How about Itanium at 1.2 Ghz outperforming the Pentium 4 at 3.06?
Or how about the 3.0 Ghz Pentium 4 beating the 3.06 Pentium 4 in every benchmark?
Yeah, you are right, Centrino, Itanium and the 3.0 Ghz Pentium 4 are all P.O.S. They are all officially dead.
It gets worse, Dual channel was available for the Opteron, but not enabled. Also, and this one is not Tom's fault, the Opteron supports DDR400, but Tom used DDR333. The problem is the super limited supplies of DDR400 w/ECC,reg.
This is where the opteron with an 800mhz fsb with DDR333 ends up with less memory bandwidth than a Xeon with DDR266. The 533mhz bus Xeon used Dual Channel, giving it an effective 533 bus while the 800mhz bus Opteron was chokeing on 333mhz memory.
That is why the Opteron was falling down in the workstation benchmarks, because they tended to be bandwidth hogs.
Looking again, the opteron used 4 x 256 sticks of ram... 1 Gb not two.
Reason: Please use fewer 'junk' characters.
Reason: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.
If it won't make it through the lameness filter, how does it get posted as a non-lame story?
Exactly, I was being cynical.
I was showing the difference between Intel's marketing and what they are actually delivering.
You caught on to the contradictions but not their purpose.
Sort of like buying a brand new certified pre-owned bmw.
For god sakes, if someone drove my new car for a few years before I got it, it sure as hell is not brand new.
Did you mean: Athlon
Welcome to Intel, where if your laptop has a pentuim-M, an intel chipset and an Intel 802.11b card, you can call your laptop a Centrino. Oh, don't tell anyone that Apple has had the same functionality for three years, otherwise people would know we are not doing anything new, which we are!
For instance the new Pentium-M is an all new from the ground up processor that at 1.6 Ghz, outperforms the Pentium 4 at 2.8 Ghz. The Pentuim 4 is still faster than the Athlon though, becuase it has a higher clockspeed. Oh, and the Pentium-M is a Pentium III using a Pentium 4 bus and 1 mb of L2 Cache.
So, the Centrino is all new, using three year old technology pioneered by Apple and using a 4 year old processor that still manages to work over our all new Pentium 4.
At least the chipset is still good, just like Extreme(ly bad) graphics, Granite Bay with support for 8x AGP^H^H^H^H^H 4x AGP and the great i820 with a super reliable memory translator hub.
Umm....
OK! we have hotspots all over the world to use your brand new laptop with! Why, in China, an emerging market that we have invested billions in, there are 6 hotspots already! One for every 200,000,000 people...
OK, nevermind.. Centrino is just a PR campaign to sell the same warmed over crap we have been pushing for the last 5 years. Now shut up and buy it, were almost a monopoly again and we are not going to take your consumer crap when we have the market in a strangle hold again.
It will be just like the good old days when you all forked over $2000 for our latest steaming silicon turd.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety. Nor, are they likely to end up with either."
-- Benjamin Franklin
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first."
-- Thomas Jefferson
If you don't agree, you are not American.
I served 11 years in the US Army and I know EXACTLY what I was fighting for, The Constitution of the United States of America.
It looks to me like Heather Mac Donald doesn't feel like supporting the constitution.
China has a wonderful policy on privacy that she might like better than America's, and she is welcome to go there.
There, the state is safe but the its citizens are not. The state is safe at the expense of the citizens. Since a government derives it's just power from the consent of the governed, the chinese government is not considered to be a just government.
The chinese government is very close to being the type of government that Heather Mac Donald proposes our government become more like.
Heather Mac Donald is a quack.
This is what Adobe is saying:
http://www.adobe.com/motion/gear/main.html
Yep, that's a Dell.
"Many engineers I have known have decades of programming experience, on bare metal, Fortran, and C++."
Then they are not engineers, they have distinguished themselves as being much more than that, even in your mind. They are programmers, obviously a cut above their engineer peers, which include you, since you did not say "I am an engineer but I also program C, Fortran, etc.".
The reality is, John Carmack, one the finest programmers alive, has gotten further as an aerospace engineer in two years than some engineers get during an entire career.
I know an aerospace engineer whose claim to fame, the pinnacle of his career, was to design the rear lavatory on the 737.
Not every engineer designs the Eiffel tower.
Not every programmer wrote the Linux kernel...hmm...
But where the Eiffel tower was designed by one man, the Linux kernel required the labor of thousands to get where it is today.
300 people built the Eiffel tower in 2 years and yes, it is true art, useless, it does nothing but make a good backdrop for postcards.
The Linux kernel on the other hand is quite useful, required the brilliant output from thousands of esteemed programmers as opposed to 300 ignorant laborers, is elegant and much more worthy of your inspired praise.
Don't worry, this is a parody of the trolls you were hoping not to feed. It's funny, laugh.
I am not answering you in the thread where I read your post, because I'm moderating that thread. So, go buy a new Alpha here
The company has government contracts that say it must produce the alpha untill 2006. It is alive and well. In fact it is 10% faster than HP's Itanium offering, the superdome line of servers.
Since HP's intent is to comply with the government contract but not reduce sales of their high margin, larger investment and similar contract with intel Itanium systems, they are not advertising it, posting benchmarks or supporting it (theoreticly they are supporting the hardware mut their support for TRU-64 is minnimal at best).
Prices of the 8 processors at 1224 mhz w/256 GB of ram start at 1/4 million dollars. The DS20E is a desktop workstation running dual 833mhz EV 68 processors.
The 8p version will finish a seti@home work unit every 4 minutes.
If you have the cash, enjoy the power.
Influenza killed 20% of the world's population in 1917-1918. WWI was on so it got all the press. In the meantime bodies were being loaded into dump trucks to be placed in mass graves in central park.
So, when something new, different and deadly arrives, no one is immune and no medicine cures it.
That is why there is all the hype. Because this is very different from any of the hundreds of diseases you come in contact with every day, but are immune to.
That would be an interesting turn of events eh? I mean 20% of the world's population dieing in the next 9 months? Perhaps it is worth a little hype? Naw, better to stay cynical and assume you will be part of the 80% and not the 20%. Or your wife. Or your Kids. Or your parents. Or the people at burning man. Or the drummers on Salano. Or just one person on BART... then you will be next.
See you around "Steve"
Smoking the herb tonight? THe drive you linked to transfers at 56 MB/s per second. The Maxtor drives used in LaCie's housing transfer at 60 MB/s. In a striped raid array, those disks would push 90 MB/s sustained transfer.
Buy the bare drives if you need the space. The houseing, along with firewire's limited performance, will gate the performance of these drives which otherwise could almost double the performance of the Lacie unit, at a significant discount in cost.
From the list of supporters of DRM and Palladium is VIA, with their complete eden platform including chipset and Samual cored C3 (cyrix) processor. Even the Slashdot crew's traditional favorites, such as AMD, have signed on.
Hmmm.. what could we use this for?
Reason. They'll use this for reason.
Obscure refrence: see "snow crash"
This is a response to a bunch of posters who were modded up that misunderstand hammer architecture
:::yawn:::"
"to have active cooling on the north bridge, too many new, high speed bus mobos are coming out right now with passive cooling that doesn't come close to making it easy to OC"
The chipset "Northbridge" does not get over clocked with the CPU using hyper transport. The memory controller is on the cpu. So you can increase the speed of the CPU and memory without affecting the chipset "Northbridge" at all. I used quotes around Northbridge because all the features that most people think of as being part of the Northbridge are in fact incorporated into the CPU.
"What, still only 32-bit PCI slots?
This motherboard contains a hyper transport to 32 bit PCI chip. Hyper transport runs at 6.4GB/s. PCI 32 is 133 MB/s. The manufacturer chose to use 32 bit PCI because this is a commodity board. Theoretically, a motherboard could include 6 PCI-X busses supporting 6 cards each before saturating the hyper transport bus.
Powerpoint Show about Hammer family architecture. "save target as".
Read the show notes! AMD did not edit them out.
I doubt that steel conducts the heat away too fast. I'd wager that the steel conducts the RF radiation itself. Just like this device has an antenna, steel would be an antenna too. Not exactly impedance matched, but certainly enough to prevent the steel from being heated except across the entire piece.
You only need to see one 300 pound halibut, 2000 pound moose, pumpkin the size of a truck, cabbage that you could roof your house with, ravens 4 feet tall, 30 pound king crab with 6 foot long legs and ouf course foot long buds to belive a story like this. I lived in Alaska 18 years and I do not doubt this one bit.
Everything is bigger there.
Clawhammer (Athlon) has a single 16 bit wide hyper transport bus.
. pp t
M D- Opteron.ppt
:)
The workstation Sledgehammer (Opteron) has two 16 bit busses
The server Sledgehammer (Opteron) has three 16 bit busses
The spec results are as follows:
Spec_int
PIII1G 426
G4 1ghz 306
G5 937 (IBM PowerPC 970)
2.8Ghz p4 1010
XP 2800 933
Itanium 1Ghz 810
Power4 1300 804
Clawhammer 2.0 Ghz 1202
Spec_fp
PII 1Ghz 426
G4 1Ghz 187
2.8 Ghz p4 947
XP 2800 782
Itanium 1Ghz 1356
Power4 1300 1169
Clawhammer 2.0Ghz 1170
Opteron??? Higher than clawhammer considering the multiple hyper transport busses 1/2 mb L2 (compared to clawhammer's 256/512 l2) and dual on chip DDR memory controllers compared to Clawhammers single memory controller
Bootleg Powerpoint Presentation:
http://130.236.229.26/download/misc/AMD-Opteron
and
http://a26.lambo.student.liu.se/download/misc/A
Read the Show notes! AMD failed to edit them out
Filename is AMD-Opteron.ppt google search it.
Includes a system that is an Opteron workstation dualed with a clawhammer that still presents itself as a single proc system. The clawhammer acts as a math co-processer
The iBook HAS NO IR PORT.
Linux SH-5
SH-5 benchmarks
Company website