Reveal Codes! Please give me WordPerfect style reveal codes. I haven't used WP in 6 years and I still miss reveal codes.
That said, I've been using 1.1b1 and 1.1b2 for some time now and have been quite pleased with the progress. With OOo 1.1, I finally moved my wife's computer from Win2K to Linux. No regrets.
I'm sure that many of you regarded this news with a muffled yawn. But this is really good news for me. I've been supporting NetWare for a decade now. I actually install new NetWare networks. That's right, new. I've been using and installing Linux for a couple of years as well. With each new NetWare release, I've needed to evaluate if it's worth it to me to maintain my CNE and Gold status. But business keep coming to me for NetWare expertise.
Now I can have the best of both worlds. I actually prefer to work with Linux. NetWare can be frustrating, but it's bulletproof when it's setup correctly. Linux seems to be more forgiving in many ways. Plus the wide variety of software for Linux (there are, what, 6 different widely-used MTAs alone?) means I can accomplish more with the platform.
This news kept my largest NetWare client from moving to all-Windows servers. The client had been intrigued with Linux, but didn't feel comfortable using it in production. Now they won't have a problem with it. In their eyes, Linux is ligitimate now. I'm sure they aren't the only ones.
Since about Netware 1.1 Novell software has always run on commodity Intel boxes. Commodity boxes don't have bootstrap loaders or monitors. So Novell uses xx-DOS, which is cheap, simple, fits on a floppy, and understood by most sysadmins worldwide, as their bootstrap loader and monitor. After boot, feel free to do a "REMOVE DOS" command and purge all traces of DOS from memory.
FWIW, NetWare 2.x (I've never seen an earlier version than 2.0a) had its own bootloader. You essentially compiled a static kernel with the disk and network drivers you needed. Bootstrapping NetWare from DOS didn't come until NetWare 3.x.
And, of course, one of the legacies of Novell's purchase of Digital Research is that NetWare now ships with Novell DOS (nee DR-DOS). With NetWare 3.x (and early 4.x I think) you needed to supply you own DOS.
Also, REMOVE DOS is no longer valid with NetWare 5 & 6.
I still maintain the point that designing a monolithic kernel in 1991 is
a fundamental error. Be thankful you are not my student. You would not
get a high grade for such a design:-)
And: My point is that writing a new operating system that is closely tied to any
particular piece of hardware, especially a weird one like the Intel line,
is basically wrong. (snip) Writing a new OS only for the
386 in 1991 gets you your second 'F' for this term.
It was hardly one of his teachers that "failed" him. It was just some usenet jousting over the merits of micro/monolithic kernels. Buy a clue, Forbes.
Yes, MS settled out of court. For what this BBC article* describes as "hundreds of millions of dollars". While Caldera's purchase of the DR properties (DR-DOS, etc) cost around $400,000. This O'Reilly article quotes the Wall Street Journal as putting the number at $275 mil. So, in the strict legal sense, MS didn't "lose". But by every definition that matters, Caldera won and won big.
I, for one, hope that SCO loses for real on this one.
* This article also contains the single worst picture of Bill Gates I've ever seen. Worth clicking-through just for that.
Except that the license is all that's there. Accepting the license responds with a friendly FORBIDDEN error.
Better to go to the PlanetMirror link instead. They have the license intact, as well as the source files. I post this link to about every other SCO story, you guys haven't been paying attention!.
Yeah, especially when they came out with Midori and were touting embedded devices. Sadly, Midori hasn't been updated in almost two years. I still run it on my Compaq IA-1 and it does what I need it to do, but it would be nice to see some new features / updated packages.
IBM will continue to ship, support and develop AIX which represents years of IBM innovation, hundreds of millions of dollars of investment and many patents. (emphesis mine)
I think this is the first official statement from IBM that somewhat confirms what many here have been saying all along. IBM could blow SCO out of the water with their patent portfolio alone.
Sez Darl: "We're not talking about just lines of code; we're talking about entire programs. We're talking about hundred of thousands of lines of code."
So it sounds like he didn't limit his comment to just the Linux kernel. "Entire programs" must mean something other than the kernel itself, I'd think.
The fun never ends! Thanks for the chuckle, Darl, I'd been having a bad day up to now.
Are you running 2.4.20 with the preemptive patch? If not, you may want to try it. On my previous system, Ogg file playback would be choppy and interactive events like this would be choppy as well. The preemptive patch fixed 'em all. I've not had any trouble with it and it's mature (it's actually part of the 2.5 kernel now).
It doesn't look like there is a preemptive patch for 2.4.21 yet, but check back in a couple of days.
You're right, this whole thing is something of a guilty pleasure. Neither SCO the first, nor Caldera were much loved by./ers anyway, but now there's reason to actively cheer their demise. Watching a company that we all know and are ambivilant about commit suicide like this is facinating in a perverse way.
The other neat aspect of this whole thing is the amount of history that has come out of the woodwork. What begat what, what came from where, who sold what to who. It has been interesting to follow the trail of so many products through so many hands.
Same here. On my desktop the stock RH9 kernel sucked in a major way. Rolled a new bare 2.4.20 + preemptive kernel and it's flying. Wonder what magic RH was attempting that gummed up the works?
Just finished reviewing the ChangeLog. Did anything not get touched this time? Good lord, there are arcnet patches in here.
Also, when does Alan Cox sleep? Prehaps he's a new form of undead with an affinity for coding? Maybe he has cloned himself a few times? Alan, however you're doing it, we appreciate all of your hard work. Now go take a nice, long nap.
Yup, I'd forgotten about the Tarantella thing (quiet indeed!).
In the name of completeness (and to avoid an utterly contentless post) more about the Novell / Caldera connection: Novell purchased Digital Research in '91, primarily to market DR-DOS as a competitor to MS-DOS (which was just now gaining ground as a stand-alone product). This went nowhere, and the DR properties (including, apparently, the GEM desktop) were sold to Caldera. This was used as the basis for a lawsuit against MS for anti-competitive something or other. Caldera won and collected a fat check from MS. Then DR-DOS was spun from Caldera to Lineo and has now landed at Device Logics.
Many NetWare users and techies refer to this period as Novell's "What in the fuck are you doing" phase.
Novell bought WordPerfect (the company, not just the product) and later sold the WordPerfect desktop apps to Corel.
Caldera was (is?) funded by The Canopy Group, which was founded by Ray Noorda, a former Novell CEO. Caldera purchased the Santa Cruz Operation, owners of some bits of UNIX (exactly which bits is a matter of some debate). FWIW, Caldera has now officially changed its name to The SCO Group.
Hey, I just wanted to thank you for pointing this book out. I have piles of Tolkien's books, but this one escaped me. Now with a 4-year-old, this looks like it could be fun, come the holidays. It's already on order.
I knew/. was good for something!
Re:Dvorak Predicts Death of Linux
on
SCO SCO SCO!
·
· Score: 1
..."the lead attorney, David Boies, was the attorney for IBM in its antitrust defense years ago."
I do think that's kind of interesting. He knows IBM culture and legal habits. That might be useful, I suppose.
Re:For the sake of clarity - a different perspecti
on
SCO SCO SCO!
·
· Score: 1, Funny
Cooter - Bruce Perens
I'm sure Bruce will be very happy to hear about this...
Re:On the phone with SCO (Take 2)
on
Today's SCO News
·
· Score: 4, Informative
...there will be an audio transcript somewhere.
From SCO's press release:
Replay will be available for two weeks following the call. To access the replay, call: 888-203-1112 or 719-457-0820, conference code #164628.
That's what struck me first about this. Why on earth would he say that? How can SCO even tie those events to one another? Can / should Linus pursue a claim of extortion against SCO? I know it's easy for me to say, but I hope Linus kicks SCO in the balls for this.
This is just unfuckingcredible. I sure picked one helluva day to be sick and stay at home.
Slashdot Mirror
Reveal Codes! Please give me WordPerfect style reveal codes. I haven't used WP in 6 years and I still miss reveal codes.
That said, I've been using 1.1b1 and 1.1b2 for some time now and have been quite pleased with the progress. With OOo 1.1, I finally moved my wife's computer from Win2K to Linux. No regrets.
I'm sure that many of you regarded this news with a muffled yawn. But this is really good news for me. I've been supporting NetWare for a decade now. I actually install new NetWare networks. That's right, new. I've been using and installing Linux for a couple of years as well. With each new NetWare release, I've needed to evaluate if it's worth it to me to maintain my CNE and Gold status. But business keep coming to me for NetWare expertise.
Now I can have the best of both worlds. I actually prefer to work with Linux. NetWare can be frustrating, but it's bulletproof when it's setup correctly. Linux seems to be more forgiving in many ways. Plus the wide variety of software for Linux (there are, what, 6 different widely-used MTAs alone?) means I can accomplish more with the platform.
This news kept my largest NetWare client from moving to all-Windows servers. The client had been intrigued with Linux, but didn't feel comfortable using it in production. Now they won't have a problem with it. In their eyes, Linux is ligitimate now. I'm sure they aren't the only ones.
Since about Netware 1.1 Novell software has always run on commodity Intel boxes. Commodity boxes don't have bootstrap loaders or monitors. So Novell uses xx-DOS, which is cheap, simple, fits on a floppy, and understood by most sysadmins worldwide, as their bootstrap loader and monitor. After boot, feel free to do a "REMOVE DOS" command and purge all traces of DOS from memory.
FWIW, NetWare 2.x (I've never seen an earlier version than 2.0a) had its own bootloader. You essentially compiled a static kernel with the disk and network drivers you needed. Bootstrapping NetWare from DOS didn't come until NetWare 3.x.
And, of course, one of the legacies of Novell's purchase of Digital Research is that NetWare now ships with Novell DOS (nee DR-DOS). With NetWare 3.x (and early 4.x I think) you needed to supply you own DOS.
Also, REMOVE DOS is no longer valid with NetWare 5 & 6.
Hmm, dunno. Caldera's UNIX purchase from SCO was mostly a stock swap. Maybe the SEC should check under Darl's matress?
...reminds us that a teacher told Torvaldas he'd get a low grade for his creation
:-)
That teacher was Andy Tannebaum, creator of Minix! From the infamous Tannenbaum v Torvalds debate:
I still maintain the point that designing a monolithic kernel in 1991 is a fundamental error. Be thankful you are not my student. You would not get a high grade for such a design
And:
My point is that writing a new operating system that is closely tied to any particular piece of hardware, especially a weird one like the Intel line, is basically wrong. (snip) Writing a new OS only for the 386 in 1991 gets you your second 'F' for this term.
It was hardly one of his teachers that "failed" him. It was just some usenet jousting over the merits of micro/monolithic kernels. Buy a clue, Forbes.
Yes, MS settled out of court. For what this BBC article* describes as "hundreds of millions of dollars". While Caldera's purchase of the DR properties (DR-DOS, etc) cost around $400,000. This O'Reilly article quotes the Wall Street Journal as putting the number at $275 mil. So, in the strict legal sense, MS didn't "lose". But by every definition that matters, Caldera won and won big.
I, for one, hope that SCO loses for real on this one.
* This article also contains the single worst picture of Bill Gates I've ever seen. Worth clicking-through just for that.
Except that the license is all that's there. Accepting the license responds with a friendly FORBIDDEN error.
Better to go to the PlanetMirror link instead. They have the license intact, as well as the source files. I post this link to about every other SCO story, you guys haven't been paying attention!.
Yeah, especially when they came out with Midori and were touting embedded devices. Sadly, Midori hasn't been updated in almost two years. I still run it on my Compaq IA-1 and it does what I need it to do, but it would be nice to see some new features / updated packages.
http://minnie.tuhs.org/UnixTree/
http://public.planetmirror.com/pub/ancient-unix/
Go nuts, big boy. Let us know what you find.
(FWIW, the planetmirror link is being slow for me right now. Be patient, it's there.)
IBM will continue to ship, support and develop AIX which represents years of IBM innovation, hundreds of millions of dollars of investment and many patents. (emphesis mine)
I think this is the first official statement from IBM that somewhat confirms what many here have been saying all along. IBM could blow SCO out of the water with their patent portfolio alone.
G'night SCO! See ya in hell!
Sez Darl: "We're not talking about just lines of code; we're talking about entire programs. We're talking about hundred of thousands of lines of code."
So it sounds like he didn't limit his comment to just the Linux kernel. "Entire programs" must mean something other than the kernel itself, I'd think.
The fun never ends! Thanks for the chuckle, Darl, I'd been having a bad day up to now.
Are you running 2.4.20 with the preemptive patch? If not, you may want to try it. On my previous system, Ogg file playback would be choppy and interactive events like this would be choppy as well. The preemptive patch fixed 'em all. I've not had any trouble with it and it's mature (it's actually part of the 2.5 kernel now).
It doesn't look like there is a preemptive patch for 2.4.21 yet, but check back in a couple of days.
You're right, this whole thing is something of a guilty pleasure. Neither SCO the first, nor Caldera were much loved by ./ers anyway, but now there's reason to actively cheer their demise. Watching a company that we all know and are ambivilant about commit suicide like this is facinating in a perverse way.
The other neat aspect of this whole thing is the amount of history that has come out of the woodwork. What begat what, what came from where, who sold what to who. It has been interesting to follow the trail of so many products through so many hands.
Same here. On my desktop the stock RH9 kernel sucked in a major way. Rolled a new bare 2.4.20 + preemptive kernel and it's flying. Wonder what magic RH was attempting that gummed up the works?
Just finished reviewing the ChangeLog. Did anything not get touched this time? Good lord, there are arcnet patches in here.
Also, when does Alan Cox sleep? Prehaps he's a new form of undead with an affinity for coding? Maybe he has cloned himself a few times? Alan, however you're doing it, we appreciate all of your hard work. Now go take a nice, long nap.
Yup, I'd forgotten about the Tarantella thing (quiet indeed!).
In the name of completeness (and to avoid an utterly contentless post) more about the Novell / Caldera connection: Novell purchased Digital Research in '91, primarily to market DR-DOS as a competitor to MS-DOS (which was just now gaining ground as a stand-alone product). This went nowhere, and the DR properties (including, apparently, the GEM desktop) were sold to Caldera. This was used as the basis for a lawsuit against MS for anti-competitive something or other. Caldera won and collected a fat check from MS. Then DR-DOS was spun from Caldera to Lineo and has now landed at Device Logics.
Many NetWare users and techies refer to this period as Novell's "What in the fuck are you doing" phase.
http://ir.sco.com/ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=1095 07
I suppose they could still be d/b/a, but it looks like they really are "The SCO Group" now.
Novell bought WordPerfect (the company, not just the product) and later sold the WordPerfect desktop apps to Corel.
Caldera was (is?) funded by The Canopy Group, which was founded by Ray Noorda, a former Novell CEO. Caldera purchased the Santa Cruz Operation, owners of some bits of UNIX (exactly which bits is a matter of some debate). FWIW, Caldera has now officially changed its name to The SCO Group.
Clear as mud?
Hey, I just wanted to thank you for pointing this book out. I have piles of Tolkien's books, but this one escaped me. Now with a 4-year-old, this looks like it could be fun, come the holidays. It's already on order.
/. was good for something!
I knew
..."the lead attorney, David Boies, was the attorney for IBM in its antitrust defense years ago."
I do think that's kind of interesting. He knows IBM culture and legal habits. That might be useful, I suppose.
Cooter - Bruce Perens
I'm sure Bruce will be very happy to hear about this...
...there will be an audio transcript somewhere.
From SCO's press release:
Replay will be available for two weeks following the call. To access the replay, call: 888-203-1112 or 719-457-0820, conference code #164628.
Well, since Caldera is now The SCO Group, maybe it's time they did get their own section.
/. topic.
Actually, it's pretty funny that a "major" UNIX vendor has gone this long without their own
That's what struck me first about this. Why on earth would he say that? How can SCO even tie those events to one another? Can / should Linus pursue a claim of extortion against SCO? I know it's easy for me to say, but I hope Linus kicks SCO in the balls for this.
This is just unfuckingcredible. I sure picked one helluva day to be sick and stay at home.
?? SCO's press release is attributed correctly. Perhaps you read this elsewhere?