No, it could (theoretically) be a gas, or a gas/ solid mixture (aerosol). Unfortunately, to generate a sufficiently high vertical component to the forces on the sediment grain (and so lift it in order to move it) , the lower the density of your fluid and the lower the viscosity, the higher the velocity you need. (I drill holes, horizontally, kilometres long, in rock, for a living. This is well supported experimentally.) Much higher velocities.
So, you then have really high velocity winds, bearing sediment grains ; the smaller sediment grains impact on the larger ones which are just on the cusp of being picked up. Those are high-velocity impacts. The large, static grain gets abraded. That's a "ventifact".
The gravel and cobbles pictured are rounded, not ventifact-shaped (bounded by multiple intersecting planes. That alone almost surely excludes a gas from consideration as a fluid phase.
Your junior (7-10 age group, whichever country you're in) school teachers were incredibly negligent, or you were a stupid, inattentive pupil. Or you had some sort of attention-seeking disease. Or possibly you're under 7 years old (is there an age question on signing up for Slashdot - it's that long since I did it, I don't remember).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor
If it was water than there should be evidence of life even if it is only bacterial life.
By that measure, the gas clouds surrounding Eta Carinae should also contain life, despite being a hard vacuum (with water vapour) and UV radiation that would sterilize your skin (no easy task) before evaporating it.
We hypothesise that water is essential for life. That does not mean that where there is water, there must be life.
Even if they only discover bacterial life than some of these religious nut will have some explaining to do.
Indeed they will. And I'll be up there demanding an explanation, now, not later.
We have been looking for life outside of earth for a long time now without success.
How long? 50 years (since the Drake Equation was proposed)? 60 years (since the enunciation of the Fermi Paradox)? 90 years (since Percival Lowell set up his observatory to map the Martian "canal" system)? Going back 110 years (Schiaparelli seeing what he interpreted as "channels") would probably be going a bit too far, as Schiaparelli wasn't really looking for life as such.
That's not a "long" time. At the 90 year mark (which is very arguable), it's barely twice my lifetime (so far) ; my professional society is twice as old as that mark ; I aspire to be invited into a society 4 times as old ; I've participated in archaeological digs where I've excavated plough marks 45 times as old ; I've found archaeological material made by anatomically modern humans that is 60 to 90 times as old. I don't think that we've been looking for life for a particularly long time.
I think if they do not discover some signs of either living life or past life than the whole mission will be a failure.
The missions aims explicitly do not include finding life. Didn't you read any of the pre-landing material?
It is just like looking for water on your property, one does not care how fancy or technological the equipment is, one only cares if they have found water.
Sorry ; this is my territory. I drill oil wells for a living. It is 100% normal to be drilling a well for information. In the last year, 3 of the wells that I've drilled have been production wells, the other 4 have been for various types of geological information. OK - as a senior geologist with 25 years of experience it is possible that I get invited to work on more complex wells in more complex situations. But that's people spending serious money with no expectation of a producing well at the end of it.
It is perfectly normal for the "drilling" people to be badgering me to find out if the wells is "a success" and if we've found oil. And they get deeply confused when I say "Yes, the well is a great success, and we've not found oil." But they don't pay my invoices ; the company's geology department pays my invoice (and all the rest of the well's bills) out of the exploration budget, and they're happy. So the well is a success : "plug and abandon ; dry hole."
So I am hoping they discover signs of life soon.
So do I. But I'm enough of a scientist to not expect it.
I wonder if the bookies would take a bet on it? Put a fiver down, hope to get enough back for some decent bubbly if it pays off.
Do you remember the ALH 86-001 kerfuffle? I said at the time that it would be the biggest thing since Copernicus / Galileo. Still waiting.
The erosive fluid at Mt Rushmore was mostly glycerine tri-nitrate, though adsorbed onto diatomaceous earth and packaged so that it appeared as a particulate solid.
Does it even have to be a fluid? What about a flow of fine particles, or something like a pyroclastic flow?
True to a point, but these generally flow for a lesser distance and result in more angular particles.
Pyroclastics can flow for tens of kilometres, possibly a hundred kilometres (some of the Campi Flegrei pyroclastics around the Naples Metropolitan district have travelled approaching a hundred kilometres, and crossed passes of several hundred metres climb; "hmmm") though a few kilometres is more common.
The internal structure of the particles in pyroclastic flows are generally noticeably vesicular. Vesicles are not reported, and I'd expect them to have been reported if they were seen. Also, typically, the clasts in pyroclastic flows are more angular than what I see in the pictures (though that is quite variable).
Finally, the formation of pyrooclastic flows is quite strongly correlated with the chemistry of the magmas ; basalt is far commoner on the Martian surface, which would in itself argue against pyroclastic flows being common.
This really is incredible. It's travel[l]ed less than 200 meters and found things worth studying.
If you read around the original articles, they saw outcrops of these cemented conglomerates which had been scoured clear of dust and fine material by the blast of the SkyCrane's jets. While they were doing their pre-drive instrument check-outs.
And they kept their communal traps shut until they'd found good enough evidence.
At the temperatures and pressures of the Martian surface (now, and at all times in all credible histories I've heard of) carbon dioxide is a gas not a liquid. You need 5+ atmospheres (half an MPa) to make liquid stable.
Does that rule CO2 out as a possible fluid for you?
If mercury were so common in the environment that it literally ran in rivers over the surface, then it's highly likely that the organism's physiology would have developed so that it wasn't concerned by the presence of the mercury.
Physiologically, is iron a problem for us? Non-elemental phosphorus? Most sulphur compounds (in an oxygenic environemnt, where they oxidise to sulphites / suplhates)?
... and has seen through the idiot Romney. Well colour me abso-fucking-lutely astonished. Not.
Bearing in mind that Linus is from a Scandinavian background, he probably looks at the political scene in the US as being a choice between insanely right wing and batshit-insane right wing. Which is probably being a bit excessively kind to the US political scene.
Uhhh..they had backups which means that makes NO sense whatsoever.
Possibly it's a case of left hand and right hand. "Left Hand" knows that it's good practice to back things up, and wonders why policy doesn't include this, so does his own back up. "Right Hand" has a plan for plausible deniability of the loss of incriminating data, involving some bricks, a "vandalism" install of Linux on critical machinery, and the backup system having inexplicably failed.
"Right Hand" is now planning to fire "Left Hand", once the fuss is over.
I understand the use of the Linux install as a damage-causing method : an unattended install can be fairly quick to get started and will go on to do lots and lots of file-system damage by re-formatting then over-writing data. And if you turn the monitor off, it's got a good chance of continuing un-noticed after the perp has to exit the premises. Actually, you could probably get the install started while legitimately in the office, and do the vandalism later, when your alibi is established.
What makes you think that they've got any realistic choice about which country they live in? If you're an un-skilled labourer, try getting a settlement visa for any other country in which you don't already have relatives who are willing to act as your guarantors of good behaviour, and to support you while you become economically productive.
I've got the whole of Europe to choose where to live in ; as a half-globe trotting specialist in the oil industry, I anticipate working on any continent at the drop of a hat. I've got enough languages and nouce to not have any real concern about being dropped in any airport in the world with a contact phone number and address to go and find my way to the client. I seriously doubt that a settlement visa request from me for most countries in the world would be turned down (though Spain, Canada and Oceania are the only credible ones where I might actually apply).
Don't expect the freedoms that we expect in the first world to apply to the overwhelming majority of our conspecifics.
If you only have one hand, then you have use of your mousing hand.
It may not be the same mousing hand as 10 years ago, but "Meh". As the right-handers have said, contemptuously, to left-handers for decades if not centuries, just learn to use the other hand, you fucking GIMP!
Welcome to the contempt with which left-handers are treated by a significant minority of right-handers. And when the left-handers get a majority, you fucking right-handers are going to suffer for your abuse.
Where did they ever get the idea that humans used to primarily live on shores?
That has the smell to me of adherents of the "Aquatic Ape Hypothesis," which is marginal "popular science," with very little support in the palaeontological community. The hypothesis is moderately well thought-out, but has little material evidence in it's support, which is why it isn't considered important (or anything approaching "true") by any significant part of the palaeontological community. However, it still gets a lot of publicity outside the community because it's a nice, simple "just so" story. It's difficult to attack directly though, because it isn't insanely wrong, it's just lacking evidence, and the intermediate position - that humans have had a lot of enduring associations with coastal and littoral environments, which could have had a modest effect on shaping human evolution - is perfectly feasible. (You'll note that some of the earliest-branching anatomically modern humans to leave Africa made it to the islands of East Asia and Australia ; in itself that suggests that early humans were at least familiar with and comfortable with littoral environments.
All the rest is pure conjecture, more colloquially known as bullshit.
In my lexicon, "bullshit" carries an implication of deliberate falsehood, which I don't think is present here. If your "bullshit" is diluted compared to that... well, are your bulls confused over their gender?
"Bullshit" may be a bit harsh. If you look through the list of authors, there's not one associated with a palaeontology, geology or (palaeo-) anthropology institution.
While I'm all for interdisciplinary work, I think this team left a significant type of input out of their work, viz : the palaeontological context. And, as you say, it shows in the results.
After the previous article about "reversing moral compasses" (which I haven't read, yet), I think I'll try reversing the moral compass on that one. So:
Evidence suggests the Iranian government is behind cyberattacks this week that have targeted the websites of JPMorgan Chase and Bank of America.
becomes:
Evidence suggests the America government is behind cyberattacks... that have targeted [the state of Iran].
In which context, it becomes a lot less surprising and a "continuation of diplomacy by other means".
That's an interesting combination of technologies and materials. The basic idea should be workable, but how workable they'd be for material identification given the prevalences of IR filters on (consumer grade) CCD sensors and their relatively low sensitivity....Identifying spectral lines on a 10-bit sensor is difficult enough. Trying to do it on the 7-8 bits that you get from a (consumer grade) sensor... is going to be more difficult.
But... that's an interesting idea. I think that's worth a six-pack worth of funding.
Did I get a first post? Are the trolls and the GNAA spammers asleep? Or, preferably, dieing slowly?
Slashdot Mirror
ITYM "parochial" not "colloquial", but yes, it is pretty much a EN_US-ism.
You have a problem with that? (Hint : look at the username.)
Not without leaving ventifacts.
No, it could (theoretically) be a gas, or a gas/ solid mixture (aerosol). Unfortunately, to generate a sufficiently high vertical component to the forces on the sediment grain (and so lift it in order to move it) , the lower the density of your fluid and the lower the viscosity, the higher the velocity you need. (I drill holes, horizontally, kilometres long, in rock, for a living. This is well supported experimentally.) Much higher velocities.
So, you then have really high velocity winds, bearing sediment grains ; the smaller sediment grains impact on the larger ones which are just on the cusp of being picked up. Those are high-velocity impacts. The large, static grain gets abraded. That's a "ventifact".
The gravel and cobbles pictured are rounded, not ventifact-shaped (bounded by multiple intersecting planes. That alone almost surely excludes a gas from consideration as a fluid phase.
The poor sorting also excludes a gaseous fluid.
Your junior (7-10 age group, whichever country you're in) school teachers were incredibly negligent, or you were a stupid, inattentive pupil. Or you had some sort of attention-seeking disease. Or possibly you're under 7 years old (is there an age question on signing up for Slashdot - it's that long since I did it, I don't remember). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor
By that measure, the gas clouds surrounding Eta Carinae should also contain life, despite being a hard vacuum (with water vapour) and UV radiation that would sterilize your skin (no easy task) before evaporating it.
We hypothesise that water is essential for life. That does not mean that where there is water, there must be life.
Indeed they will. And I'll be up there demanding an explanation, now, not later.
How long? 50 years (since the Drake Equation was proposed)? 60 years (since the enunciation of the Fermi Paradox)? 90 years (since Percival Lowell set up his observatory to map the Martian "canal" system)? Going back 110 years (Schiaparelli seeing what he interpreted as "channels") would probably be going a bit too far, as Schiaparelli wasn't really looking for life as such.
That's not a "long" time. At the 90 year mark (which is very arguable), it's barely twice my lifetime (so far) ; my professional society is twice as old as that mark ; I aspire to be invited into a society 4 times as old ; I've participated in archaeological digs where I've excavated plough marks 45 times as old ; I've found archaeological material made by anatomically modern humans that is 60 to 90 times as old. I don't think that we've been looking for life for a particularly long time.
The missions aims explicitly do not include finding life. Didn't you read any of the pre-landing material?
Sorry ; this is my territory. I drill oil wells for a living. It is 100% normal to be drilling a well for information. In the last year, 3 of the wells that I've drilled have been production wells, the other 4 have been for various types of geological information. OK - as a senior geologist with 25 years of experience it is possible that I get invited to work on more complex wells in more complex situations. But that's people spending serious money with no expectation of a producing well at the end of it.
It is perfectly normal for the "drilling" people to be badgering me to find out if the wells is "a success" and if we've found oil. And they get deeply confused when I say "Yes, the well is a great success, and we've not found oil." But they don't pay my invoices ; the company's geology department pays my invoice (and all the rest of the well's bills) out of the exploration budget, and they're happy. So the well is a success : "plug and abandon ; dry hole."
So do I. But I'm enough of a scientist to not expect it.
I wonder if the bookies would take a bet on it? Put a fiver down, hope to get enough back for some decent bubbly if it pays off.
Do you remember the ALH 86-001 kerfuffle? I said at the time that it would be the biggest thing since Copernicus / Galileo. Still waiting.
The erosive fluid at Mt Rushmore was mostly glycerine tri-nitrate, though adsorbed onto diatomaceous earth and packaged so that it appeared as a particulate solid.
Pyroclastics can flow for tens of kilometres, possibly a hundred kilometres (some of the Campi Flegrei pyroclastics around the Naples Metropolitan district have travelled approaching a hundred kilometres, and crossed passes of several hundred metres climb; "hmmm") though a few kilometres is more common.
The internal structure of the particles in pyroclastic flows are generally noticeably vesicular. Vesicles are not reported, and I'd expect them to have been reported if they were seen. Also, typically, the clasts in pyroclastic flows are more angular than what I see in the pictures (though that is quite variable).
Finally, the formation of pyrooclastic flows is quite strongly correlated with the chemistry of the magmas ; basalt is far commoner on the Martian surface, which would in itself argue against pyroclastic flows being common.
If you read around the original articles, they saw outcrops of these cemented conglomerates which had been scoured clear of dust and fine material by the blast of the SkyCrane's jets. While they were doing their pre-drive instrument check-outs.
And they kept their communal traps shut until they'd found good enough evidence.
Does that rule CO2 out as a possible fluid for you?
Physiologically, is iron a problem for us? Non-elemental phosphorus? Most sulphur compounds (in an oxygenic environemnt, where they oxidise to sulphites / suplhates)?
Bearing in mind that Linus is from a Scandinavian background, he probably looks at the political scene in the US as being a choice between insanely right wing and batshit-insane right wing. Which is probably being a bit excessively kind to the US political scene.
Possibly it's a case of left hand and right hand. "Left Hand" knows that it's good practice to back things up, and wonders why policy doesn't include this, so does his own back up. "Right Hand" has a plan for plausible deniability of the loss of incriminating data, involving some bricks, a "vandalism" install of Linux on critical machinery, and the backup system having inexplicably failed.
"Right Hand" is now planning to fire "Left Hand", once the fuss is over.
I understand the use of the Linux install as a damage-causing method : an unattended install can be fairly quick to get started and will go on to do lots and lots of file-system damage by re-formatting then over-writing data. And if you turn the monitor off, it's got a good chance of continuing un-noticed after the perp has to exit the premises. Actually, you could probably get the install started while legitimately in the office, and do the vandalism later, when your alibi is established.
Real men keep their vodka in the freezer (in Russia, in the outer coat pocket) and don't dilute it with lumps of ice.
Didn't you get the email from the Mayans, or did it go into your spam bucket?
I'm a geologist ; for me "long" would start at around a hundred megayears. OK?
Including geothermal?
All hail Jobs, for all Jobbies are good!
I've got the whole of Europe to choose where to live in ; as a half-globe trotting specialist in the oil industry, I anticipate working on any continent at the drop of a hat. I've got enough languages and nouce to not have any real concern about being dropped in any airport in the world with a contact phone number and address to go and find my way to the client. I seriously doubt that a settlement visa request from me for most countries in the world would be turned down (though Spain, Canada and Oceania are the only credible ones where I might actually apply).
Don't expect the freedoms that we expect in the first world to apply to the overwhelming majority of our conspecifics.
Welcome to the contempt with which left-handers are treated by a significant minority of right-handers. And when the left-handers get a majority, you fucking right-handers are going to suffer for your abuse.
Cunts are useful.
That has the smell to me of adherents of the "Aquatic Ape Hypothesis," which is marginal "popular science," with very little support in the palaeontological community. The hypothesis is moderately well thought-out, but has little material evidence in it's support, which is why it isn't considered important (or anything approaching "true") by any significant part of the palaeontological community. However, it still gets a lot of publicity outside the community because it's a nice, simple "just so" story. It's difficult to attack directly though, because it isn't insanely wrong, it's just lacking evidence, and the intermediate position - that humans have had a lot of enduring associations with coastal and littoral environments, which could have had a modest effect on shaping human evolution - is perfectly feasible. (You'll note that some of the earliest-branching anatomically modern humans to leave Africa made it to the islands of East Asia and Australia ; in itself that suggests that early humans were at least familiar with and comfortable with littoral environments.
In my lexicon, "bullshit" carries an implication of deliberate falsehood, which I don't think is present here. If your "bullshit" is diluted compared to that ... well, are your bulls confused over their gender?
Is this your own petard you are hoisting yourself upon?
What is the likelihood of there being a party in the UK. Or anywhere else in Europe?
While I'm all for interdisciplinary work, I think this team left a significant type of input out of their work, viz : the palaeontological context. And, as you say, it shows in the results.
becomes :
In which context, it becomes a lot less surprising and a "continuation of diplomacy by other means".
But ... that's an interesting idea. I think that's worth a six-pack worth of funding.
Did I get a first post? Are the trolls and the GNAA spammers asleep? Or, preferably, dieing slowly?