I dont actually just have one type of application in mind, I do lot of different work on my computers. No matter what I'm running I wouldn't go for anything but speed / foot print. When I built / designed my final year project in College my software was built for Speed!, there's literally nothing else that can get as important.
First off Free-BSD is a sourced based thanks to Ports so you have the option of adding in optimization and Ubuntu is nativity binary based, not to say you can't get source out of apt. How can you compare a binary and a source, that's like comparing Gentoo VS Ubuntu. Gentoo will win 100% of the time because we you make sure that only use the fastest of the CFLAGS where in Ubuntu you need to have everything built into the binary. I just don't see a fair link between these two operating systems.
Personal experience with BSD shows me just how messed up that system is. I'm surprised they could even install the thing to bench mark with it, and then waited 5 days for ports to grind away getting the packages set up.
Speed is the most important factor hands down, documentation is no where near as important. Second is the ability to configure the application by stripping symbols and optimizing using flags and third is over all memory and cpu foot print. You want it to use the least amount of cycles per operation possible. Then after all of that has been considered, then you look at documentation.
Smoking and Food can't be compared, and yes I do work out on a regular basis because I like to eat and drink foods like coke and burgers. Don't put in the time eating the food if your going to let it sit. BTW I'm 6'1" 200 Pb and currently in great health as I get my physicals done twice a year. I'm make sure to cover my bases, it's not hard for others to do the same.
Ya okay well the proper diet as laid out by a dietitian or nutritionist means nothing to me. Just eat what you want and make sure you eat enough of the different food groups. I'm sick of people saying that we can't take care of our self's that's so much BS it's sad.
People who get over weight, that AREN'T over weight because of medical reason that can't be controlled, can not turn around and blame the food. It's there fault 100% if you eat your self to the size of a Hippo then deal with it. If you have to ride with motor assistance because you can't put down a piece of pie or a burger then live with it. It's the same way here, if you can't learn how your body deals with certain food then you A) Have a very very low IQ and B) Need to follow "the balanced diet".
You want to bring up hypertension and blood pressure, what about them. There controllable and completely in the hands of the person to deal with and watch out for. If your worried go to a doctor and in 5 min you get to find out that the burger you were to hungry to put down in the last 10 years every day has become the reason you ride in a cart with a flag saying "Hey I'm a fat ass who has no self control". I do want to make it clear that I'm only targeting people who DON'T have a chronic medical condition.
High blood pressure is not that hard to control for the love of god, Taxing a soda drink or any drink doesn't fix the problem. If you eat with out thinking about what your eating then I wonder what will happen. There's no need to eat 5-6 serving of Veg and Fruit + 2-3 serving of grain, it's as simple as "Hey I ate a plate of chicken wings last night with Beer so tonight lets have hmmm a salad with wraps or something". People who are clogging the health care system because they are pigs, lazy fat gross examples of humans need to be put down like sick animals.
The problem here is people who are to stupid and dumb to see the out come of there actions. If you can't read a label or even apply one ounce of common sense to your food and drink then you don't deserve to eat. Why not think of food as a job, if you don't do the work you don't get paid. Same thing here, you want to drink a case of coke (fine) then at least follow it up with an apple or orange or heaven forbid a salad.
The truth is we can or at least I can think my / our selfs. Getting sick / overweight because people don't doesn't make there problem our problem. There is only one person we need to care about on earth and that's us. If you make sure you get your check ups down, get your phsyicals like you should on a regular basis and just apply a bit of common sense in life to food then you have nothing to worry about.
Any thing that happens outside of that isn't related. You can eat perfect and still have high blood pressure, you can eat better then some books on a balanced diet and still be over weight but if you at least are able to say to your self that you know whats going in and your prepared to deal with it then you have no reason to be punished with a Tax on food.
It's just very simple and any one that can't see this view point needs help, I never just put points of there to be looked over, I assert my point as a universal maxim. If your not ready to stand behind your ideals as a maxim then you really have no point and no reason for existence in the first place.
Thats a pretty big long shot, I Drink a case a coke a week easily and I mean a 24, so far I've seen nothing happen to me, even the the doctor didn't find anything. I'm not just going to use my self as an example, all the coke / pepsi or just soda drinks I know that drink pop fairly heavy, out of all of them NONE, 0 of them have any health problems related to it. If it's not good for the person drinking then they should be the ones not drinking it, don't punish us, the non effected soda lovers.
Yet another example on how the government screws us out of money. There is nothing in this but the money, come on Taxing pop, banning pop, what will that actually do that serves anyone. Will this stop world hunger, cure world wide aids, or more so (and the right answer) get the governors and the soda makes bigger cars and houses.
Can't be done, there is no way to have a Windows install that is less then 90% bugs patched with 10 bull shit. The features this is taking about like BIOS level tracking and RFID have nothing to do with Windows and let alone the fact that all you need to do is run a live cd of Linux and hack the file system. It was a good idea, I guess, I guess if you don't think about it and just put this together really fast.
Come on here, he's actually admitting the failed attempt from his own company. It's not just windows mobile that for lack of a better term sucks.
There has only ever been 2 Windows versions which have ever even come close to meeting the bar for good OS design. The first one was Windows 98 SE and the second was XP. Both were the only ones to ever not have serious flaw in the low level design and even more so in the user interface.
Anything up from XP is just a horrible experiment in just how bad code can be written and design can be screwed up. Lets not even talk about Vista which is now used to show first year C students in Colleges and University how bad unplanned software can end up. Windows 7 well improving most of the flaws from Vista still carries with it the over secure frame work that makes people want to rip there hair out. Not being able to install 3 party drivers which haven't been "signed" or really "We don't know how to make a stable kernel / user space so were going to stop you from being able to use your computer". Still lack of file system built in support. I don't care that people will come here and talk about how MS shouldn't be supporting EXT and ZFS etc... There real file systems that should be built into at least the user space but more so kernel.
Our old friend blue screen is back in full force in Windows 7, data pool errors seem frequent and having to edit the registry just to get a nice boot with unsigned drivers almost seems required. Sound cards are broken, Tunner cards don't work and even video problems. I'll give them this thou, the start bar is nice, if you don't turn the graphics enhancement off because it really does nothing to help performance.
We better not tell Ballmer this, he might break down and cry again, but this time we know to have tissue ready. Your company makes a broken OS that unfortunately run's most of the worlds computers. I wonder what would happen when they get any of there implementations of Windows right, a world with out broken windows and with out a need for us to pick up the glass.
Its true I haven't but I'm also not just a coder I also build hardware. To be fair I should make such a general overview of a comment, as I'm still in university, but the one thing I've noticed from all my good profs who teach development based courses are keep it simple to hand it in, of course then you get the ones who don't have a clue, Cough (Ali).
Of course it's alot different working on a RTOS then it is programming a MY SQL app (which i've never done).
Just right safe working code, don't try to be fancy. Don't try to use optimized method, just do what is safe and easy. If you always just write safe code then what can really happen to you right.
Once again Microsoft shows how they care more about the face of the OS then the guts, it's still a horribly broken OS with lack of file system support and lack of stability / memory management. In the mean time I'll just be sitting in my nice safe Linux install not having to worry about a new UI that will take 7 months to develop and 7 years of patches / updates to make it work.
Perfectly said, now don't get me wrong I love a good Gnome version update to and all the nice GTK software that goes with it. But when you take apart the distro it all comes down to Coreutils and and a Kernel.
I know that I did a gross over simplification so before anyone comes and complains about that lol I already know.
I've been running FreeBSD in production for 6+ years and quite honestly unless there is a specific OSS package that isn't maintained in ports and refuses to compile; I have no reason what-so-ever to use Linux in its place. It's far more stable, far more secure, and people running production servers hardly need to waste precious resources on a GUI to make things "easier" for the uneducated.
I've never witnessed this stability, I can't even get FreeBSD to install, let alone run. Even if I did the Linux Kernel / GNU OS is Open Source so it's as stable as you want to make it so it has infinite stability and same with FreeBSD, it's Open source so as long as you want to put the work in your going to get the stability you want.
As for the part about a GUI, if your running a production server there is very little reason to run a GUI in the first place. Only a Windows Server would run with a GUI, if your a true admin and can't run with a sh / bash shell then your not really an admin, your more a sub admin, because your skills aren't where they need to be.
While your last statement is clearly flamebait, I'll bite. Windows is great for the average PC and workstation user. It integrates well into many environments and in recent years has made strides to improve security and resource management.
Fine, windows is great for the average PC user but you can't talk about how secure it is and it's resource managment, I've ran every release that's been public for Windows and every single one besides XP can't speak for resource management. I get at least 30% better preformance on the very lowest end on my Linux box. Windows has broken memory managment and broken CPU management. Windows can't multitask worth anything, get more then 20+ programs running and you'll lock it up or crash it. I'm sorry but what OS can possible try to tell you that it can run multiple applications and have such a resiction, on Linux I often run 30+ and more applictions with no noticable preformance hit. Windows had limited file system support and doesn't even come with a shell. As far as I'm concerned Windows is like getting your first bike with train wheels, you'll never go fast , you'll never be cool and you'll never know what it's like to bike with the big kids.
I'll be fair, it is fine for the average user but thats about all, no experanced computer user could find it suitable.
FreeBSD is great in the server room for it's rock solid stability and security, and was one of the building blocks for the popular PC OS, Apple Mac OS X
FreeBSD is great on the server fine, I'll give you that but don't say FreeBSD is the building blocking for OS X, it's not. Darwin's the base, there is so little FreeBSD code in OS X that you can't make that claim. Infact if you really want to try that one then why not use BSD itself, BSD was the building block for FreeBSD and BSD's building block was if you look back far enough punch cards, so really OS X's building block was punch cards!.
Linux is trying to fill many niches and as such, has uses in the server room, and on workstations. However, Linux is hardly usable for the majority of computer users because most (all?) distributions are incapable of attaining licenses to the many proprietary applications that the majority of people want/need to use. Linux is, point blank, one of the biggest jokes in OS and computing history. The sad part is it still has potential.
Linux works great on both the server end and the desktop end, I've used it thought college and university with no problems. I run Linux across all my servers and it works beautifully. There are GNU / Linux distro's for the desktop alone, and there are GNU / Linux distro's for the server. You shouldn't mix them if you don't know what your doing, and that is 100% the users problem. A user can't complain it doesn't work when it doesn't work because there not putting the effort forth, if
Okay well if freeBSD is so great (in response to group.zero) Then why does it never want to run normally on any computer I ever try it on, I always run into the same problem with the hard disk controller not being accepted, which makes me sure DMA off.
But I guess thats just an advancement of it right, more efford = more gain or something, I don't know but I guess I'll use a sh shell to configure a text file with vi at disk a20d0a0a or what ever the broken naming convension is to fix the problem.
When freeBSD wants to run nativily on my system with no problems and no bugs then I'll give it a try but it will be a long time before it gets the act together to be real world ready.
In response to Sun.Jedi, your right Linux is extremely usable on almost any platform, and future more there are alot of professional level software packages that work above expectations on it, so in fact Linux really is the best OS of all time.
It's very true that the beauty of Linux is you can use what you feel comfortable with. Personally I love Gentoo but it's become a mess of a project, every one pulls it in a new direction and it ends up broken alot.
Well maybe I'll give it another try Slackware I mean.
Not every user even on a Linux system needs to be able to use the shell and CLI. I mean it's a good idea but as long as you can pop open a termainal in a GUI and produce basic scripts you'll be fine.
If you want pure CLI and pointless design welcome to Unix / FreeBSD, A system for those who want headaches, pain and broken packages.
GNU / Linux is designed to work and work well for users that come up from either Windows or Unix. Linux is point blank the greatest OS in history or Computing bar none.
Hey awesome, I've been trying to get into Slackware lately but I just can't seem to get use to it. Are there any realb benifits to tranfering to it.
Right now I run Arch and I just came from Gentoo, and I like the speed aspects of both and the optimization ability. Would there be such option in Slackware, I haven't seen one but I could of missed it.
Well either way if I can figure out some reasons to switch then I just might.
Hmm get a bunch of people including teachers and do it by hand. If you can't do it by hand , give the software to a bunch of computer science students and have them work out the bug, it's not hard.
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I dont actually just have one type of application in mind, I do lot of different work on my computers. No matter what I'm running I wouldn't go for anything but speed / foot print. When I built / designed my final year project in College my software was built for Speed!, there's literally nothing else that can get as important.
First off Free-BSD is a sourced based thanks to Ports so you have the option of adding in optimization and Ubuntu is nativity binary based, not to say you can't get source out of apt. How can you compare a binary and a source, that's like comparing Gentoo VS Ubuntu. Gentoo will win 100% of the time because we you make sure that only use the fastest of the CFLAGS where in Ubuntu you need to have everything built into the binary. I just don't see a fair link between these two operating systems.
Personal experience with BSD shows me just how messed up that system is. I'm surprised they could even install the thing to bench mark with it, and then waited 5 days for ports to grind away getting the packages set up.
Speed is the most important factor hands down, documentation is no where near as important. Second is the ability to configure the application by stripping symbols and optimizing using flags and third is over all memory and cpu foot print. You want it to use the least amount of cycles per operation possible. Then after all of that has been considered, then you look at documentation.
Well I do have 3 TB of HDD let me start
Smoking and Food can't be compared, and yes I do work out on a regular basis because I like to eat and drink foods like coke and burgers. Don't put in the time eating the food if your going to let it sit. BTW I'm 6'1" 200 Pb and currently in great health as I get my physicals done twice a year. I'm make sure to cover my bases, it's not hard for others to do the same.
Ya okay well the proper diet as laid out by a dietitian or nutritionist means nothing to me. Just eat what you want and make sure you eat enough of the different food groups. I'm sick of people saying that we can't take care of our self's that's so much BS it's sad.
People who get over weight, that AREN'T over weight because of medical reason that can't be controlled, can not turn around and blame the food. It's there fault 100% if you eat your self to the size of a Hippo then deal with it. If you have to ride with motor assistance because you can't put down a piece of pie or a burger then live with it. It's the same way here, if you can't learn how your body deals with certain food then you A) Have a very very low IQ and B) Need to follow "the balanced diet".
You want to bring up hypertension and blood pressure, what about them. There controllable and completely in the hands of the person to deal with and watch out for. If your worried go to a doctor and in 5 min you get to find out that the burger you were to hungry to put down in the last 10 years every day has become the reason you ride in a cart with a flag saying "Hey I'm a fat ass who has no self control". I do want to make it clear that I'm only targeting people who DON'T have a chronic medical condition.
High blood pressure is not that hard to control for the love of god, Taxing a soda drink or any drink doesn't fix the problem. If you eat with out thinking about what your eating then I wonder what will happen. There's no need to eat 5-6 serving of Veg and Fruit + 2-3 serving of grain, it's as simple as "Hey I ate a plate of chicken wings last night with Beer so tonight lets have hmmm a salad with wraps or something". People who are clogging the health care system because they are pigs, lazy fat gross examples of humans need to be put down like sick animals.
The problem here is people who are to stupid and dumb to see the out come of there actions. If you can't read a label or even apply one ounce of common sense to your food and drink then you don't deserve to eat. Why not think of food as a job, if you don't do the work you don't get paid. Same thing here, you want to drink a case of coke (fine) then at least follow it up with an apple or orange or heaven forbid a salad.
The truth is we can or at least I can think my / our selfs. Getting sick / overweight because people don't doesn't make there problem our problem. There is only one person we need to care about on earth and that's us. If you make sure you get your check ups down, get your phsyicals like you should on a regular basis and just apply a bit of common sense in life to food then you have nothing to worry about.
Any thing that happens outside of that isn't related. You can eat perfect and still have high blood pressure, you can eat better then some books on a balanced diet and still be over weight but if you at least are able to say to your self that you know whats going in and your prepared to deal with it then you have no reason to be punished with a Tax on food.
It's just very simple and any one that can't see this view point needs help, I never just put points of there to be looked over, I assert my point as a universal maxim. If your not ready to stand behind your ideals as a maxim then you really have no point and no reason for existence in the first place.
I can move my special video (porn) collection in 3 second!!!!
Thats a pretty big long shot, I Drink a case a coke a week easily and I mean a 24, so far I've seen nothing happen to me, even the the doctor didn't find anything. I'm not just going to use my self as an example, all the coke / pepsi or just soda drinks I know that drink pop fairly heavy, out of all of them NONE, 0 of them have any health problems related to it. If it's not good for the person drinking then they should be the ones not drinking it, don't punish us, the non effected soda lovers.
Yet another example on how the government screws us out of money. There is nothing in this but the money, come on Taxing pop, banning pop, what will that actually do that serves anyone. Will this stop world hunger, cure world wide aids, or more so (and the right answer) get the governors and the soda makes bigger cars and houses.
Can't be done, there is no way to have a Windows install that is less then 90% bugs patched with 10 bull shit. The features this is taking about like BIOS level tracking and RFID have nothing to do with Windows and let alone the fact that all you need to do is run a live cd of Linux and hack the file system. It was a good idea, I guess, I guess if you don't think about it and just put this together really fast.
Come on here, he's actually admitting the failed attempt from his own company. It's not just windows mobile that for lack of a better term sucks.
There has only ever been 2 Windows versions which have ever even come close to meeting the bar for good OS design. The first one was Windows 98 SE and the second was XP. Both were the only ones to ever not have serious flaw in the low level design and even more so in the user interface.
Anything up from XP is just a horrible experiment in just how bad code can be written and design can be screwed up. Lets not even talk about Vista which is now used to show first year C students in Colleges and University how bad unplanned software can end up. Windows 7 well improving most of the flaws from Vista still carries with it the over secure frame work that makes people want to rip there hair out. Not being able to install 3 party drivers which haven't been "signed" or really "We don't know how to make a stable kernel / user space so were going to stop you from being able to use your computer". Still lack of file system built in support. I don't care that people will come here and talk about how MS shouldn't be supporting EXT and ZFS etc... There real file systems that should be built into at least the user space but more so kernel.
Our old friend blue screen is back in full force in Windows 7, data pool errors seem frequent and having to edit the registry just to get a nice boot with unsigned drivers almost seems required. Sound cards are broken, Tunner cards don't work and even video problems. I'll give them this thou, the start bar is nice, if you don't turn the graphics enhancement off because it really does nothing to help performance.
We better not tell Ballmer this, he might break down and cry again, but this time we know to have tissue ready. Your company makes a broken OS that unfortunately run's most of the worlds computers. I wonder what would happen when they get any of there implementations of Windows right, a world with out broken windows and with out a need for us to pick up the glass.
Its true I haven't but I'm also not just a coder I also build hardware. To be fair I should make such a general overview of a comment, as I'm still in university, but the one thing I've noticed from all my good profs who teach development based courses are keep it simple to hand it in, of course then you get the ones who don't have a clue, Cough (Ali).
Of course it's alot different working on a RTOS then it is programming a MY SQL app (which i've never done).
Just right safe working code, don't try to be fancy. Don't try to use optimized method, just do what is safe and easy. If you always just write safe code then what can really happen to you right.
Once again Microsoft shows how they care more about the face of the OS then the guts, it's still a horribly broken OS with lack of file system support and lack of stability / memory management. In the mean time I'll just be sitting in my nice safe Linux install not having to worry about a new UI that will take 7 months to develop and 7 years of patches / updates to make it work.
Perfectly said, now don't get me wrong I love a good Gnome version update to and all the nice GTK software that goes with it. But when you take apart the distro it all comes down to Coreutils and and a Kernel.
I know that I did a gross over simplification so before anyone comes and complains about that lol I already know.
Got to love when you can update to the new kernel, it's like Santa is coming but for Linux nerds
I've been running FreeBSD in production for 6+ years and quite honestly unless there is a specific OSS package that isn't maintained in ports and refuses to compile; I have no reason what-so-ever to use Linux in its place. It's far more stable, far more secure, and people running production servers hardly need to waste precious resources on a GUI to make things "easier" for the uneducated.
I've never witnessed this stability, I can't even get FreeBSD to install, let alone run. Even if I did the Linux Kernel / GNU OS is Open Source so it's as stable as you want to make it so it has infinite stability and same with FreeBSD, it's Open source so as long as you want to put the work in your going to get the stability you want.
As for the part about a GUI, if your running a production server there is very little reason to run a GUI in the first place. Only a Windows Server would run with a GUI, if your a true admin and can't run with a sh / bash shell then your not really an admin, your more a sub admin, because your skills aren't where they need to be.
While your last statement is clearly flamebait, I'll bite. Windows is great for the average PC and workstation user. It integrates well into many environments and in recent years has made strides to improve security and resource management.
Fine, windows is great for the average PC user but you can't talk about how secure it is and it's resource managment, I've ran every release that's been public for Windows and every single one besides XP can't speak for resource management. I get at least 30% better preformance on the very lowest end on my Linux box. Windows has broken memory managment and broken CPU management. Windows can't multitask worth anything, get more then 20+ programs running and you'll lock it up or crash it. I'm sorry but what OS can possible try to tell you that it can run multiple applications and have such a resiction, on Linux I often run 30+ and more applictions with no noticable preformance hit. Windows had limited file system support and doesn't even come with a shell. As far as I'm concerned Windows is like getting your first bike with train wheels, you'll never go fast , you'll never be cool and you'll never know what it's like to bike with the big kids.
I'll be fair, it is fine for the average user but thats about all, no experanced computer user could find it suitable.
FreeBSD is great in the server room for it's rock solid stability and security, and was one of the building blocks for the popular PC OS, Apple Mac OS X
FreeBSD is great on the server fine, I'll give you that but don't say FreeBSD is the building blocking for OS X, it's not. Darwin's the base, there is so little FreeBSD code in OS X that you can't make that claim. Infact if you really want to try that one then why not use BSD itself, BSD was the building block for FreeBSD and BSD's building block was if you look back far enough punch cards, so really OS X's building block was punch cards!.
Linux is trying to fill many niches and as such, has uses in the server room, and on workstations. However, Linux is hardly usable for the majority of computer users because most (all?) distributions are incapable of attaining licenses to the many proprietary applications that the majority of people want/need to use. Linux is, point blank, one of the biggest jokes in OS and computing history. The sad part is it still has potential.
Linux works great on both the server end and the desktop end, I've used it thought college and university with no problems. I run Linux across all my servers and it works beautifully. There are GNU / Linux distro's for the desktop alone, and there are GNU / Linux distro's for the server. You shouldn't mix them if you don't know what your doing, and that is 100% the users problem. A user can't complain it doesn't work when it doesn't work because there not putting the effort forth, if
Okay well if freeBSD is so great (in response to group.zero) Then why does it never want to run normally on any computer I ever try it on, I always run into the same problem with the hard disk controller not being accepted, which makes me sure DMA off.
But I guess thats just an advancement of it right, more efford = more gain or something, I don't know but I guess I'll use a sh shell to configure a text file with vi at disk a20d0a0a or what ever the broken naming convension is to fix the problem.
When freeBSD wants to run nativily on my system with no problems and no bugs then I'll give it a try but it will be a long time before it gets the act together to be real world ready.
In response to Sun.Jedi, your right Linux is extremely usable on almost any platform, and future more there are alot of professional level software packages that work above expectations on it, so in fact Linux really is the best OS of all time.
Thanks
Docmur
It's very true that the beauty of Linux is you can use what you feel comfortable with. Personally I love Gentoo but it's become a mess of a project, every one pulls it in a new direction and it ends up broken alot.
Well maybe I'll give it another try Slackware I mean.
Thanks
Docmur
Not every user even on a Linux system needs to be able to use the shell and CLI. I mean it's a good idea but as long as you can pop open a termainal in a GUI and produce basic scripts you'll be fine.
If you want pure CLI and pointless design welcome to Unix / FreeBSD, A system for those who want headaches, pain and broken packages.
GNU / Linux is designed to work and work well for users that come up from either Windows or Unix. Linux is point blank the greatest OS in history or Computing bar none.
Thanks
Docmur
Hey awesome, I've been trying to get into Slackware lately but I just can't seem to get use to it. Are there any realb benifits to tranfering to it.
Right now I run Arch and I just came from Gentoo, and I like the speed aspects of both and the optimization ability. Would there be such option in Slackware, I haven't seen one but I could of missed it.
Well either way if I can figure out some reasons to switch then I just might.
Thanks
Docmur
Another example on how closed source software fails to provide, if it was open source the code could be fixed simply and quickly.
Hmm get a bunch of people including teachers and do it by hand. If you can't do it by hand , give the software to a bunch of computer science students and have them work out the bug, it's not hard.
The cause is Windows it's self. If it doesn't happen with Mac or Linux then it's not hardware it's software.
They don't have to just have the code ready to download, but if a user requests is they have to provide it if it's truely open source