Oh well. At least the PS3 has gotten a slew of single player games lately. I'll reserve multiplayer and the like for my Xbox.
Supposedly that doesn't matter. New games will require you to have the updated firmware.
I've read FFXIII requires at least 3.15. I have FFXIII, but I also have 3.15. I've only read one comment in a PS forum were someone claimed they had returned the PS version of FFXIII for the Xbox version because the PS version said they needed 3.15. They weren't willing to update because their system was bricked when they had previously updated. They took their machine to an independent repair shop, which fixed the system and they installed 3.10, but when they tried FFXIII on the system it gave an error and said they needed 3.15 to play.
According to Sony's new EULA/ToS it won't matter, they don't need the users permission to update the console anymore. As someone in the PS forums pointed out, that was probably a move so they can quietly remove features with out notifying people so they won't garner so much press next time the screw someone over. I did read the EULA/ToS when I updated my console to 3.15 and I don't remember the specific phrase they used to indicate they no longer need a users permission to update the console.
Unless I can find a copy of the 3.15 agreement I can't say it wasn't there before, does anyone have a copy or know where I can get one?
You'd think since I had to agree to this "legal" document I'd be able to print it off or access it in some way after the fact so I'd know what my rights were under the agreement.
I now see that by removing the Other OS feature I paid for with my PS3 console you were intentionally trying to upset me so I would no longer be a customer for any Sony or related products. I see you did this for my benefit so that I actually might be spared enormous headaches down the road when playing games as I do not have a persistent connection to the net with my console. You truly are a noble and caring company.
If I wasn't commenting in this thread and had some points, I'd mod you funny for that.
What I was trying to get at is Sony will update the PS3s and allow 3D, then in the future they could, and given their track record probably will, remove the functionality in order to force people to buy the next latest and greatest thing.
The loss of the BC is tragic and I don't see it's loss as big of an issue as the other os, because I still have access to BC on my PS3. People buying a new PS3, if they were informed, would know the new product didn't come with it. That being said I know several people who bought the PS3 on my recommendation and found out after the fact the BC was removed. I found out from them and originally thought it was just a defective system, but after looking it up I found out what had really happened. The difference with the Other OS feature is I bought the PS3 for that feature and used it for three years only to now have Sony come back and take it away AFTER I've paid for it. The next thing you know they'll be disabling the BC feature in older models so people have to re-buy their PS2 games from the PSN.
Yes, I'm running Ubuntu. I use my PS3 as an additional Testing and development platform when I'm developing and testing applications at home. I also use it as a 3D rendering node for hardware design.
I also play the occasional game on it, but mostly use it as a DVD/BD player. Sorry, I meant I did use it to play the occasional game and watch BDs on it. Still works as a DVD player and I can play the BD I already own, but I'm afraid of buying new BD or games that require the firmware update and disable my BD drive if I'm not willing to update.
Before you come out with, "Sony wouldn't disable your BD player", it's well documented that the CEO also said they wouldn't get ride of the Other OS support when the slim was released without the Other OS. I'd like to be able to say I'll believe it when I don't see it, but Sony let me use the Other OS for three years before it was disabled, so it might not happen today or tomorrow, but it COULD happen. So I can't trust them period and that's all I need to know to not buy anymore Sony products.
It's not up to the OP to determine how the customers are being treated. It's up to the customers. The OP can only decide for themselves.
I'm a customer. I feel pretty mistreated.
I could be wrong, but what I'm getting from your statement is you feel people shouldn't be going around describing how Sony has screwed them over. So, who do you work for again?
On top of the Linux support removal, I know at least the PS3 Slim doesn't have the Backward Compatibility with PS2 games and no card readers; The PS3 fat did. The PS3 Slim is slower when starting up and loading movies although it is slightly faster with game loading (http://www.tomsguide.com/us/PS3-Slim-Slower-Faster-phat,news-4539.html).
IMHO, I think the parent might be being a bit dramatic, but they're not too off the mark. Sure this is an entertainment company, but when they get away with treating customers like garbage other companies follow suit.
Didn't mean to submit that.
I was going to say, It's only a matter of time before they can use lighting effects and shadows to create a 3D model from a 2D image, with a single image.
There is no real proof the 3.21 update is bricking PS3s; however, tons of users are reporting their machines aren't working after they do the update. According to post in the PS3 forums, PS3s 1) aren't playing games (FF XIII is a big one), 2) disks are getting stuck in the drives and 3) for a lucky few the consoles won't start at all.
Sony's solution, buy an new PS3 Slim or pay them $160 + shipping and handling to fix it for you
EULA "protects" them from being sued for damaging a console during a firmware update. So unless a court rules the EULA isn't legal there isn't a lot the "small minority" of people having these issues can do, except not to buy Sony products.
Despite the fact that 3D is just a fad, I completely agree with you. Too bad Sony completely disrespected the early adopter tech geeks with the other OS removal. They're the ones who would have or will be buying in to this technology and will make or break the technology in the first few years it's available. Hopefully people remember how Sony treats their customers.
You should have stated that as an answer not a question.
E.G. "Once the PS4 comes out, the feature will no longer be supported on the PS3."
After all how is Sony going to get people to buy the PS4 at launch? Everyone already knows what they've done with the PS3. So offering fancy features probably won't work as well as it did last time. The other option is to completely obliterate the PS3 so people that have money vested in PS3 3D games and movies will have to buy a PS4. Disable the feature, brick a few machines basically force consumers to buy new product.
Seems to me the PS3 has been in a constant spiral of removing features since the PS3 Launch, and I'm not just talking about the recent Other OS removal. So how long does anyone think Sony is going to let a novelty feature, i.e. 3D, fly before they pull the plug on who knows how many thousands of people who buy into this.
1) people are wowed by it right now. The only reason Sony's trying to get this in the PS3 is to capitalize on the fad before it disappears.
2) I've been to several 3D movies, Avatar being the most recent, and think it's a nice trick for a once in a while show. That being said, I know several people who have gone to 3D movies and complain about headaches, motion sickness, the 3D glasses are uncomfortable and they don't fit well over regular prescription glasses and some people can't see the 3D at all or find it just plan not impressive.
3) It's just another way the movie industry is going to get people to re-buy stuff they already own. Pretty soon you're going to be able to by Star Wars and Lord of the Rings digitally remastered for 3D.
I can't tell others what to do, but I recommend avoiding 3D for home theater and especially on the PS3 for gaming.
I greatly appreciate the time you took to give me this answer. I do agree what's right and what's legal are two different things. When I bought the PS3 it was advertised as a does-everything-super-computer, not just a game console. That's why I spent the extra money instead of getting a Wii. I couldn't have predicted Sony would have removed a feature they were using to sell the console, but I did learn a lesson and won't make the same mistake. Not just when the PS4 comes out, but on any product that's billed to be "better than the others because it has super-cool-feature-geeks-want."
I will be happy to tell you just as soon as you've taken your case through final judgment and exhausted your appeals.
There's a lot of space between those lines and I think I can read what you're writing in them.
If this is the case, then how is it legal for children to play video games?
The way I understand it, they can play the games, the just can't legally agree to EULAs or ToS. I guess that means the little brats playing WoW or counter strike that are running around calling everyone fags can't be held accountable and have their accounts suspended... Or it means they can have their accounts suspended for no reason other then they can't agree to the ToS or EULA
You're brave. "I'm a Lawyer, but I don't read Terms of Use or EULAs", why are these things valid if everyone, including the people that can actually read and understand them, ignore them.
I'm a victim of the Sony PS3/Linux issue. I bought my PS3 to use Linux and play games. Now Sony is hiding behind the EULA saying they have a right to take away a feature people bought the original system for. I never agreed to let them remove anything, customer service keeps pointing me to the Maintenance and upgrade section of the EULA that say's they may change or update a feature to maintain the security of the system. NO WHERE does it say they can remove a feature.
I'm not asking for advice because 1) You shouldn't be expected to provide any and 2) It wouldn't do me any good. That being said, a lot of the Sony fanboys use the "You agreed to the EULA" as an be-all-end-all argument. I'm not upgrading my system, which means I can't use any new games or new BluRay movies on it. I've decided it's not worth wasting my time complaining about it anymore and I'm just not going to buy anymore Sony products, but I'd like to at least be able to feel personally vindicated. Do you personally think what has been done is ok?
In Canada you can't be held to a contract unless your of legal age. Since the majority of the target audience of console games is under 20 most of the people agreeing to the EULAs can't be held accountable, at least in Canada.
Hopefully as a result of that the Sony EULA, you agree to by just taking your PS3 out of the box and starting it up, will be tried by a court. Maybe there's a couple of judges out that will agree EULAs are unreasonable for people to be able to read and just clicking an OK button isn't sufficient indication someone read or understood it. EULA should be something that an average member of the target audience can read and understand. Since according to all the statistics I've read about a large population of kids coming out of high school can't read, there would be no more EULAs
Sorry the pot I'm smelling from the school next to my house must be giving me crazy ideas.
I can't speak for the Federal NDP party, but the NDP are sure doing a number here in Nova Scotia.
So far they've managed to break every promise I can think of. Full disclosure: I don't vote NDP so I'm probably bias, but they suck. They've raised the HST here back to 15% and they're giving it all to Unions. One of the promises they made was to be tough on Unions So far we've had three Unions take advantage of the situation and threaten to strike and Dexter (NDP Leader) just rolled over and gave them what they were asking for. Tax and Spend is what the NDP do. The NDP are also notorious for running Ontario and Saskatchewan into the ground, they're doing the same here. I don't think I'd vote to give them a chance to do it to the country.
Personally I think we should get rid of parties altogether. The problem is you vote for a person, if that person belongs to a party they're going to vote the way the party tells them to regardless of how it hurts the area they're from. If they don't, they get booted out of caucus, lose the political party funding and have to sit as an independent (see Bill Casey and the Atlantic accord).
I'm confused, I though being a "clown" was a requirement to be a politician. So I the way I understood the parent post was that it was saying the members of this party were perfectly suited for political office.
Heck, they can't be any worse then Jack Latyon, Steven Haper or Michael Ignatieff (the three stooges). I can't trust any of them or their parties, none of them ever tell the truth or stick to campaign promises (Not that I'd expect a politician to be honest). It's always a toss up when I'm voting because they all say they're different then the others and once elected they do the EXACT same things; I'm sure the Americans have similar issues with their parties. Maybe I should just drawing box and write "Other" next to it on the ballet.
Your rather eloquent expression of the invalid conflation between egregious breaches of social morality and insignificantly trivial breaches of consumer behavior is misplaced.I think what you mean to say is "ARRRR! Eh!"
Slashdot Mirror
Oh well. At least the PS3 has gotten a slew of single player games lately. I'll reserve multiplayer and the like for my Xbox.
Supposedly that doesn't matter. New games will require you to have the updated firmware.
I've read FFXIII requires at least 3.15. I have FFXIII, but I also have 3.15. I've only read one comment in a PS forum were someone claimed they had returned the PS version of FFXIII for the Xbox version because the PS version said they needed 3.15. They weren't willing to update because their system was bricked when they had previously updated. They took their machine to an independent repair shop, which fixed the system and they installed 3.10, but when they tried FFXIII on the system it gave an error and said they needed 3.15 to play.
LOL. That's going in my repository of sarcastic letters.
According to Sony's new EULA/ToS it won't matter, they don't need the users permission to update the console anymore. As someone in the PS forums pointed out, that was probably a move so they can quietly remove features with out notifying people so they won't garner so much press next time the screw someone over. I did read the EULA/ToS when I updated my console to 3.15 and I don't remember the specific phrase they used to indicate they no longer need a users permission to update the console.
Unless I can find a copy of the 3.15 agreement I can't say it wasn't there before, does anyone have a copy or know where I can get one?
You'd think since I had to agree to this "legal" document I'd be able to print it off or access it in some way after the fact so I'd know what my rights were under the agreement.
Dear Sony,
I now see that by removing the Other OS feature I paid for with my PS3 console you were intentionally trying to upset me so I would no longer be a customer for any Sony or related products. I see you did this for my benefit so that I actually might be spared enormous headaches down the road when playing games as I do not have a persistent connection to the net with my console. You truly are a noble and caring company.
Your former, but grateful customer,
xxxxxxx
If I wasn't commenting in this thread and had some points, I'd mod you funny for that.
What I was trying to get at is Sony will update the PS3s and allow 3D, then in the future they could, and given their track record probably will, remove the functionality in order to force people to buy the next latest and greatest thing.
The loss of the BC is tragic and I don't see it's loss as big of an issue as the other os, because I still have access to BC on my PS3. People buying a new PS3, if they were informed, would know the new product didn't come with it. That being said I know several people who bought the PS3 on my recommendation and found out after the fact the BC was removed. I found out from them and originally thought it was just a defective system, but after looking it up I found out what had really happened. The difference with the Other OS feature is I bought the PS3 for that feature and used it for three years only to now have Sony come back and take it away AFTER I've paid for it. The next thing you know they'll be disabling the BC feature in older models so people have to re-buy their PS2 games from the PSN.
Yes, I'm running Ubuntu. I use my PS3 as an additional Testing and development platform when I'm developing and testing applications at home. I also use it as a 3D rendering node for hardware design.
I also play the occasional game on it, but mostly use it as a DVD/BD player. Sorry, I meant I did use it to play the occasional game and watch BDs on it. Still works as a DVD player and I can play the BD I already own, but I'm afraid of buying new BD or games that require the firmware update and disable my BD drive if I'm not willing to update.
Before you come out with, "Sony wouldn't disable your BD player", it's well documented that the CEO also said they wouldn't get ride of the Other OS support when the slim was released without the Other OS. I'd like to be able to say I'll believe it when I don't see it, but Sony let me use the Other OS for three years before it was disabled, so it might not happen today or tomorrow, but it COULD happen. So I can't trust them period and that's all I need to know to not buy anymore Sony products.
It's not up to the OP to determine how the customers are being treated. It's up to the customers. The OP can only decide for themselves.
I'm a customer. I feel pretty mistreated.
I could be wrong, but what I'm getting from your statement is you feel people shouldn't be going around describing how Sony has screwed them over. So, who do you work for again?
On top of the Linux support removal, I know at least the PS3 Slim doesn't have the Backward Compatibility with PS2 games and no card readers; The PS3 fat did. The PS3 Slim is slower when starting up and loading movies although it is slightly faster with game loading (http://www.tomsguide.com/us/PS3-Slim-Slower-Faster-phat,news-4539.html).
IMHO, I think the parent might be being a bit dramatic, but they're not too off the mark. Sure this is an entertainment company, but when they get away with treating customers like garbage other companies follow suit.
Didn't mean to submit that. I was going to say, It's only a matter of time before they can use lighting effects and shadows to create a 3D model from a 2D image, with a single image.
Already covered
http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/07/09/1512259/Software-Converts-2D-Images-To-3D?from=rss
/Tinfoil hat on
There is no real proof the 3.21 update is bricking PS3s; however, tons of users are reporting their machines aren't working after they do the update. According to post in the PS3 forums, PS3s 1) aren't playing games (FF XIII is a big one), 2) disks are getting stuck in the drives and 3) for a lucky few the consoles won't start at all.
Sony's solution, buy an new PS3 Slim or pay them $160 + shipping and handling to fix it for you
EULA "protects" them from being sued for damaging a console during a firmware update. So unless a court rules the EULA isn't legal there isn't a lot the "small minority" of people having these issues can do, except not to buy Sony products.
/Tinfoil hat off
Despite the fact that 3D is just a fad, I completely agree with you. Too bad Sony completely disrespected the early adopter tech geeks with the other OS removal. They're the ones who would have or will be buying in to this technology and will make or break the technology in the first few years it's available. Hopefully people remember how Sony treats their customers.
You should have stated that as an answer not a question.
E.G. "Once the PS4 comes out, the feature will no longer be supported on the PS3."
After all how is Sony going to get people to buy the PS4 at launch? Everyone already knows what they've done with the PS3. So offering fancy features probably won't work as well as it did last time. The other option is to completely obliterate the PS3 so people that have money vested in PS3 3D games and movies will have to buy a PS4. Disable the feature, brick a few machines basically force consumers to buy new product.
Seems to me the PS3 has been in a constant spiral of removing features since the PS3 Launch, and I'm not just talking about the recent Other OS removal. So how long does anyone think Sony is going to let a novelty feature, i.e. 3D, fly before they pull the plug on who knows how many thousands of people who buy into this.
1) people are wowed by it right now. The only reason Sony's trying to get this in the PS3 is to capitalize on the fad before it disappears.
2) I've been to several 3D movies, Avatar being the most recent, and think it's a nice trick for a once in a while show. That being said, I know several people who have gone to 3D movies and complain about headaches, motion sickness, the 3D glasses are uncomfortable and they don't fit well over regular prescription glasses and some people can't see the 3D at all or find it just plan not impressive.
3) It's just another way the movie industry is going to get people to re-buy stuff they already own. Pretty soon you're going to be able to by Star Wars and Lord of the Rings digitally remastered for 3D.
I can't tell others what to do, but I recommend avoiding 3D for home theater and especially on the PS3 for gaming.
I greatly appreciate the time you took to give me this answer. I do agree what's right and what's legal are two different things. When I bought the PS3 it was advertised as a does-everything-super-computer, not just a game console. That's why I spent the extra money instead of getting a Wii. I couldn't have predicted Sony would have removed a feature they were using to sell the console, but I did learn a lesson and won't make the same mistake. Not just when the PS4 comes out, but on any product that's billed to be "better than the others because it has super-cool-feature-geeks-want."
I will be happy to tell you just as soon as you've taken your case through final judgment and exhausted your appeals.
There's a lot of space between those lines and I think I can read what you're writing in them.
If this is the case, then how is it legal for children to play video games?
The way I understand it, they can play the games, the just can't legally agree to EULAs or ToS. I guess that means the little brats playing WoW or counter strike that are running around calling everyone fags can't be held accountable and have their accounts suspended... Or it means they can have their accounts suspended for no reason other then they can't agree to the ToS or EULA
You're brave. "I'm a Lawyer, but I don't read Terms of Use or EULAs", why are these things valid if everyone, including the people that can actually read and understand them, ignore them.
I'm a victim of the Sony PS3/Linux issue. I bought my PS3 to use Linux and play games. Now Sony is hiding behind the EULA saying they have a right to take away a feature people bought the original system for. I never agreed to let them remove anything, customer service keeps pointing me to the Maintenance and upgrade section of the EULA that say's they may change or update a feature to maintain the security of the system. NO WHERE does it say they can remove a feature.
I'm not asking for advice because 1) You shouldn't be expected to provide any and 2) It wouldn't do me any good. That being said, a lot of the Sony fanboys use the "You agreed to the EULA" as an be-all-end-all argument. I'm not upgrading my system, which means I can't use any new games or new BluRay movies on it. I've decided it's not worth wasting my time complaining about it anymore and I'm just not going to buy anymore Sony products, but I'd like to at least be able to feel personally vindicated. Do you personally think what has been done is ok?
In Canada you can't be held to a contract unless your of legal age. Since the majority of the target audience of console games is under 20 most of the people agreeing to the EULAs can't be held accountable, at least in Canada.
Hopefully as a result of that the Sony EULA, you agree to by just taking your PS3 out of the box and starting it up, will be tried by a court. Maybe there's a couple of judges out that will agree EULAs are unreasonable for people to be able to read and just clicking an OK button isn't sufficient indication someone read or understood it. EULA should be something that an average member of the target audience can read and understand. Since according to all the statistics I've read about a large population of kids coming out of high school can't read, there would be no more EULAs
Sorry the pot I'm smelling from the school next to my house must be giving me crazy ideas.
By reading this statement you agree to all terms and conditions.
You will pay me $1,000,000 CAD
Doesn't seem too fair, but you read it. $1,000,000 CAD please
I can't speak for the Federal NDP party, but the NDP are sure doing a number here in Nova Scotia.
So far they've managed to break every promise I can think of. Full disclosure: I don't vote NDP so I'm probably bias, but they suck. They've raised the HST here back to 15% and they're giving it all to Unions. One of the promises they made was to be tough on Unions So far we've had three Unions take advantage of the situation and threaten to strike and Dexter (NDP Leader) just rolled over and gave them what they were asking for. Tax and Spend is what the NDP do. The NDP are also notorious for running Ontario and Saskatchewan into the ground, they're doing the same here. I don't think I'd vote to give them a chance to do it to the country.
Personally I think we should get rid of parties altogether. The problem is you vote for a person, if that person belongs to a party they're going to vote the way the party tells them to regardless of how it hurts the area they're from. If they don't, they get booted out of caucus, lose the political party funding and have to sit as an independent (see Bill Casey and the Atlantic accord).
I'm confused, I though being a "clown" was a requirement to be a politician. So I the way I understood the parent post was that it was saying the members of this party were perfectly suited for political office.
Heck, they can't be any worse then Jack Latyon, Steven Haper or Michael Ignatieff (the three stooges). I can't trust any of them or their parties, none of them ever tell the truth or stick to campaign promises (Not that I'd expect a politician to be honest). It's always a toss up when I'm voting because they all say they're different then the others and once elected they do the EXACT same things; I'm sure the Americans have similar issues with their parties. Maybe I should just drawing box and write "Other" next to it on the ballet.
Your rather eloquent expression of the invalid conflation between egregious breaches of social morality and insignificantly trivial breaches of consumer behavior is misplaced.I think what you mean to say is "ARRRR! Eh!"
Fixed that for you