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The Pirate Party of Canada Is Official
wasme writes "The Pirate Party of Canada has become the first Pirate Party outside of Europe to become an official political party. Elections Canada confirmed with the party that the PPCA has gained 'eligible for registration' status, and can run in elections starting June 14. From the PPCA's official announcement: 'We are pleased to announce that as of April 12, 2010, the Pirate Party of Canada is officially eligible for Party Status. After 10 months of dedication and hard work, we have reached eligible status, which only leaves a 60-day "purgatory" period. After that, we will field candidates in subsequent federal elections, and begin the real work of a political party.'"
May the seas be open and the winds be fortunate. Although I can't help but wonder if the name "Pirate Party" for all the pirate parties isn't a bit too ... daring. Maybe even misleading.
Pirates of the Saskatchewan, by the Arrogant Worms
And it's a hi (hey) ho (hey) coming down the plains,
Stealing wheat and barley, and all the other grains.
And it's a ho (hey) hi (hey) Farmers bar your doors,
when you see the Jolly Rodger on Regina's mighty shores.
--------
But seriously, great news, and best of luck to 'em. Now go get those CRIA hosers.
I am officially gone from
Americans shoot pirates (the seagoing kind), we need a better name for the Copyright Reform party on this continent. Let's call it the Broadside Party! As in, "Give them a Broadside!". Also has a copyright-related punny meaning. Or maybe the U.S. version can be the Upside Party, as in "Smack them Upside Da Head!"
Fifteen men on a dead man's chest, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum etc...
Political campaigning for rights in the digital domain is a "good thing". Clearly individual freedoms are under attack by large corporations and governments. We want to reverse this trend - we want control over our own computers / digital devices, we want reform of copyright and patent law, we want guarantees of privacy and we want fair Internet access, perhaps even as a fundamental right.
However, by using the name "pirate" (pirates in the physical world are dangerous, armed criminals), the parties are alienating a potentially broader public. As far as I can tell the parties are not generally in favor of "piracy" (stealing intellectual property) but in favor of giving the buyer / consumer of intellectual property many more rights than they currently have.
Change the names to "digital freedom party" or whatever, but stop alienating large groups of people with this pirate nonsense. Rights in the digital domain are much more important than this schoolboy stuff.
Turning over power to multinationalists
keep drinking coca-cola-corp products, eating nestle foods, and driving GM cars ... The problem with your reasoning is that you don't apply it to corporations.
Yes, I'm left. You have a problem with that?
Have there been any reactions from Big Media / Big Patents to this? Their strategy in the past has been to label these folks as common criminals when lobbying governments.
How do they swallow the fact that the Pirate Parties are now taking a legal and official route to copyright reform?
Have they issued any formal statements?
Maybe with more Pirates sailing the seas of governments, we will finally get information about what this super-secretive ACTA thing is all about.
I can't say if I am for or against the ACTA . . . because I don't know the details.
I do have a problem with so-called democracies sealing international treaties, while keeping their citizens (subjects) in the dark.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
Although the "Pirate Party" is a good name to get some publicity in these early hours, I believe that on the long term a new name must be found which reflects the main issues the party stands for.
Pirate can be changed into Privacy - still a P, so not such a change.
But I would run with this name for the next months or even years.
...not as extreme promoters of the abolition of copyright, but the catalyst that led the eventual restoration of copyright as a tool to promote cultural innovation, instead of hampering it.
I can dream, can't I? :)
.: Max Romantschuk
Please, Bad Analogy Guy, explain to us how differences in physical geography cause different needs for digital freedom.
isn't this a null issue due to the cd tax in canada?
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
If you think it's bad I'm guessing you don't vote republican then? Seeing as though they are part of a larger international political organisation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Democrat_Union
Actually, no.
The different pirate parties don't all work the same. I see it as a generic name for the concept, just like there's a "Communist Party" or "Conservative Party" in multiple countries. They may agree on the basics between themselves, but don't necessarily actively cooperate or agree on the specifics.
The different pirate parties do disagree on things like how long copyright should last. There's a general agreement that the current length is too long, but the swedish one wants 5 years, while there are others that would be fine with 20.
He compares the PP to the International Socialist Org. I think his *real* problem is that he's rabidly against all that even slightly fetters corporate power due to his blind hatred of anything that smells like socialism. I wonder if he can spell "McCarthyism".
I hate printers.
Please, Bad Analogy Guy, explain to us how differences in physical geography cause different needs for digital freedom.
And, if possible, please use an analogy to illustrate your explanation.
Show the current government how extremist the other way its current policies are. I wish you a fair wind and clear sky.
Praise Gawd - and may the winds be fortunate to our pirate brothers' sailing in Canuckistan !
Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
That's meant sarcastically I guess?
Yes, I'm left. You have a problem with that?
corporations don't make laws or form government you silly twit.
You must be new round here.
It's called the "golden rule" - he who has the gold, makes the rules. From where I'm sitting, corporations have most of the gold, and there sure are a lot of laws being made in their favour at the moment.
Plus, corporations may not form government, but they sure do field people who form government - Halliburton anyone?
Specialist Mac support for creative pros, Melbourne
Have there been any reactions from Big Media / Big Patents to this? ... How do they swallow the fact that the Pirate Parties are now taking a legal and official route to copyright reform?
I'm thinking they'll just shrug their shoulders. They'll probably make a little money from this, by running human interest stories about the new "joke party" that started up. And they wouldn't be too far off the mark in calling it a joke party, either.
... and then they built the supercollider.
It actually seems they view pirate parties as legitimate, and do participate in debates with them.
Yes, it is.
I thought Australia had a pirate party already? OP says Canada is the first outside Europe?
Seven Days with Ubuntu Unity
We have a Communist Party in Canada, and have had one for a long time. This hasn't caused any problems. We also have a "Rhino" party, (or did for many years, anyway.)
When you have a multi-party system representing many voices, then what you are talking about becomes a strength rather than a problem. The more populous voices heard on the floor of the House of Commons, the better. At least in an ideal world, which we clearly do not have.
The problems seem to occur when one party gains too much power. Generally, when lots of people are all thinking the same way within an organized system of government, then it means propaganda and political advertising has won, any by extension, the very forces which are worst for the people are the ones being given all the keys.
Large groups of voting Canadians are becoming more stupid and more easily manipulated as the years go by. Our government is getting downright creepy if you ask me.
-FL
Another Canadian political party siphoning off left-leaning voters. Already that vote is split between Liberal, NDP, Green, and (some would argue) the Bloc. This vote split is why the conservatives can continue to hold political power with 38% of the popular vote.
In political systems with fully proportional representation (example: Israel) these sorts of political parties make sense: the hurdle to get representation in the legislature is surmountable and you may even be brought into a coalition government. However, in first-past-the-post systems (Canada, US, UK) these vanity parties are only self-defeating. Whichever side of the political spectrum is best able to AVOID this fragmentation is almost guaranteed power. To use a Canadian example, look at the solid Liberal control in the 90s, made easy by a 3-way fragmentation on the right (the old PC party, Reform, and Alliance). Once those parties re-coalesced into the current Conservative party they were able to take over from the perpetually fragmented left.
If you have a particular issue that you want to advance in a first-past-the-post democracy, the correct move is to identify which of the major parties is most receptive to your goal, and organize within that party. Form an organization, raise money, make noise. If you're a visible constituency within a major party (and can be counted on to bring in votes, donations, and volunteers) then they will have reason to differentiate themselves by embracing your issue.
If instead your constituency says "ha! We're going to take our votes and make our own damn party" then BOTH major parties will simply say "ok, no need to listen to care what those guys want -- they're not going to vote for us anyway". You're only making copyright reform HARDER to achieve.
> multinationalists
Is that even a real word? Sounds like something made up by political lunatics in the US. Anyway, I'm not replying to insult you, IIRC you're a sane person judging from past posts, but I really don't get this (very US-specific) fear of other nations.
> But what worries me about the Pirate Party is precisely that it is fundamentally international in nature.
How can that possibly be a bad thing? Sure, a lot of things (location of a new city park or speed regulations) should naturally be decided on the appropriate level, but in todays world more "multinationalism" is needed when it comes to things like the invironment and conflict over natural resources, human rights and IT.
> Turning over power to multinationalists is a bad idea because generalized solutions do not necessarily fit the specific needs of any particular country.
Right. And turning over power to countries is a bad idea because generalized solutions do not necessarily fit the specific needs of any particular region.
Turning over power to regional administrators is a bad idea because generalized solutions do not necessarily fit the specific needs of any particular state.
Turning over power to states is a bad idea because generalized solutions do not necessarily fit the specific needs of any particular county.
Turning over power to county councils is a bad idea because generalized solutions do not necessarily fit the specific needs of any particular city.
Turning over power to the city council is a bad idea because generalized solutions do not necessarily fit the specific needs of any particular district.
Turning over power to the city district government is a bad idea because generalized solutions do not necessarily fit the specific needs of any particular household.
Turning over power to the mum is a bad idea because generalized solutions do not necessarily fit the specific needs of me and i don't WANNA go to be now coz i'm on level 32 and have 5 lives left!!1
(the different levels are a mix of american and european types of local governments, but you get the idea.)
There ain't no party like a pirate party because a pirate don't respect intellectual property laws.
If you mod me down the terrorists will have won
Ah. And turning power over to nationalists is better how, exactly?
Folks, the horses have left the barn already. Capital and capitalist interests are international since a couple of hundred years at least. And in those times it's turning stronger (NAFTA *cough* WIPO *cough* ACTA *cough cough*).
It's about time to find a balance of power at an international level. Otherwise democracy will be slowly killed by legislature laundering.
The goals of the party are essentially dictated centrally from Sweden
I'm curious as to why you think your fantasies are of interest to the rest of us? :)
it's in my head
Is the Pirate Party the first example of a political party that is operating in multiple countries at once? Surely that deserves some recognition at least?! Perhaps they will one day rule the majority of the world! :)
Spreading BS like "The goals of the party are essentially dictated centrally from Sweden and then implemented throughout the world wherever the PP has any power to do so." is very irresponsible, please stop that.
The various Pirate Parties are independent, there is no hierachy.
What we need is a party to split the right. I would be happier to see a pro-intellectual property, family values, pry gun from cold dead hands, anti-abortion, anti-gay rights party announce, something that could siphon votes away from the Conservatives.
Hey, Preston, how's about giving that Reform thing another whirl?
Loose lips lose spit.
Arrr, eh ?
1% APY, No fees, Online Bank https://captl1.co/2uIErYq Don't let your $$$ sit in a no-interest acct.
But what worries me about the Pirate Party is precisely that it is fundamentally international in nature.
What worries me is that many political parties which should be international in nature pretend to be merely local. For example, the UK's Official Monster Raving Loony Party http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Monster_Raving_Loony_Party should expand internationally. Entry by the OMRLP into US politics could be disastrous for both the Republicans and the Democrats, since the policies of all three parties would be so closely clustered (on the sanity scale).
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
I want to add the crucial detail of it saying “gold”. Not “dollars”. This is intentional.
The whole economic crisis didn’t happen for those, who had their money in gold. Its value remained stable. Or in other words: Rose dramatically compared to the dollar.
Now they just have to sell it, to buy that cheap cheap dollar, and they have extreme profits, bought with our labor.
Now guess who had the gold during that time... yup, the very people that caused it in the first place.
And now the rule-making part starts. ...What is marketed by political sock puppets as “Yeah, well, because of the economic crisis, we will make this law worse, and you have to work harder or be fired there, etc...”
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
The goals of the party are essentially dictated centrally from Sweden and then implemented throughout the world wherever the PP has any power to do so.
I laughed out loud. Do you really believe that? That has to be one of the cutest attempts
to discredit anyone ever.
The goals of the party are essentially dictated centrally from Sweden and then implemented throughout the world wherever the PP has any power to do so.
You're stating that the Swedish PP is dictating the agendas of all other Pirate Parties. This is wrong, however, and I'm baffled as to what made you believe otherwise.
Think of the green movement in the 70's and you'll get the picture.
The goals of the party are essentially dictated centrally from Sweden
I think you bit off a bit too much rhetoric there, and that your worries are founded on air.
...the formation of international parties (much like the well known International Socialist Organization) bodes ill for countries on an individual basis
I won't take your word for it, and I expect you to thank me for it. Evidence please. That is, evidence of your main point, not evidence regarding the incidental ISO.
I could imagine that international parties are scrutinized more closely so that the people who make up their rank are not dabbling buffoons, but rather competent citizens with a clear sense of both ideals and morals. In the case of political pirate parties, it seems their main goal is to unify consumers so that when the bill is eventually footed it does not contain the price gouging and DRM that is expected of the entertainment industries. It might take the form of a tax, but then if it is written into law with competence it should be a very affordable tax that entitles you to high-quality entertainment regardless of your income and distributes the money to artist in relation to their accomplishment.
Naturally, if one thinks bureaucracy is always inefficient the point is moot... But then again that means one has been barking up the wrong tree for the past 40 years.
All rites reversed 2010
So I propose they change their name to "Privacy Party".
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
because they all pushed the "R" button.
"Waste not one watt!" - CZ
Besides, GP says "dictated from Sweden" as if it was a bad thing. Now, I think Sweden is a crap country with stupid people, but as countries go, it's still perhaps the best.
Some of my favourite people are from th US; Vonnegut, Chomsky, Bill Hicks.
More like:
"In matters digital, downloadable and musical,
I am the very model of a modern torrent client."
I should think.
The return of pirates... as if boating on the Great Lakes wasn't already a bit hazardous at times.
You might as well have called it the Criminal Party for all it shows the general population. Still never let real political ambitions get in the way of a jolly good joke. Kids eh.
Still, let em have their fun. They'll grow out of it.
Arrrrrrrrrh!!!!
Please, Bad Analogy Guy, explain to us how differences in physical geography cause different needs for digital freedom.
And, if possible, please use an analogy to illustrate your explanation.
And if you don't mind, an ASCII illustration would also help us visualize your position.
Your argument is the exact same one I hear all the time in the USA, when it comes to the Libertarians. (In fact, the man most people probably consider the quintessential Libertarian figure today -- Ron Paul? He's run on the Republican party ticket since the mid 1970's!)
The problem with the entrenched 2-party system is, the 2 parties tend to align themselves with certain "goals" they want to achieve. Individuals signing up to run under one of their party names who have different ideas quickly get marginalized or "shut down" by the majority in the party.
Now, if you've really only got a single issue you're trying to advance, sure ... your best best is to pick which of the 2 major parties would be more receptive to it, and try to weasel in there. Whether you agree with many other things they want to do or not, you pretend to care while you try to "wheel and deal" to get your idea out there. (And so far, I'd have to say, that's my problem with the current "Pirate Party". They really do only seem to focus on one issue - copyright. They may pay some lip service to holding other political beliefs, but I've never seen them make any effort to, say, become outspoken on environmental issues or discuss whether or not government intervention of certain type might boost an economic recovery.)
But I think it's dangerous to cling too tightly to that belief that a 3rd. party "only helps one of the other 2 major parties, so it's pointless". If he actually cared to do so, Ross Perot could certainly have become one of our U.S. presidents, despite his 3rd. party affiliation. And if enough people get disgusted with the way the Republicans and the Democrats of today both seem to have the SAME agenda on so many major issues (Obama is pretty much just following the same advisers Bush did about what to do with the war)? We're ripe for a 3rd. party to step in and take control.
Corporations buying/merging with other corporations only destroys competition when they're able to make the environment poisonous for small business start-ups. That's the *real* problem today in the U.S.
History is full of examples of huge corporations toppling, when a new start-up came out of the woodwork with a fresh, new idea. (Remember when IBM was "Big Blue", the dominant player in all things computing? Apparently, a couple of college drop-outs appeared with "personal computer" ideas and wound up knocking them right over.)
Big businesses can't react to change quickly. That's always going to be their weak spot. But what they CAN do is buy politicians, to enact laws that tilt the tables in their favor, so it's near impossible for a new competitor to get a foot-hold.
I wish the pirate party would be more associated with the Pastafarians.
We have 2 communist parties in Canada; "The Communist Party of Canada" and "The Communist Party of Canada (Marxist-Lenninist)".
We now have a Neorhino party to replace the Rhino party. Unfortunately they don't get as much press as the original Rhino party. It's still good to have a party that is designed to poke fun at the whole political process.
I miss the Natural Law Party. Those guys were a hoot, especially since they were being completely serious while their policies were completely ridiculous. For example, their defense policy was to use meditation to create a peace bubble surrounding Canada. Great stuff.
List of Canadian Federal Political Parties
The Swedish Pirate Party has no power whatsoever over pirate parties in other countries. The moment the German pirate party, for example, feel that the Swedes have gone too far, they can just ignore them and go their own way.
It's actually common that European political parties have "sister parties" in other countries. The Christian Democrats exist in many European countries, as well as Green parties, and Liberal parties. It's not comparable to the International Socialist Organization.
Good for them. At this point I'd take a Pirate Party here in the US too.
Arrrrr! Bring me the booty!
I can't say if I am for or against the ACTA . . . because I don't know the details.
I don't have to know ANY of the details to be against it -- why would they keep it a secret if they thought it was benign? There are media companies and governments, NO input from citizens, and "my" representatives are keeping it secret from me. What's not to hate?
Free Martian Whores!
I'm all for this, but based on my "admittedly limited" exposure, it seems that the only issues that the Pirate Party have ever really talked about much are copyright issues. No qualms there, I'm all for that, but do they have an official stance on anything OTHER than copyright?
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
it describes esxactly what the party is:
A bunch of ignorant kids who think the world owes them free entertainment and software
and have absolutely no comprehension of how business or the free market works.
Plus a bunch of communists who resent having to pay for anything, because in moms basement they have decided that all people who charge money for their work are evil rich fat cats.
You didnt think this was a serious party for grown ups I hope?
LOL @ the arr tag. Congrats guys. Greetings from the Dutch Pirate Party!
tweet tweet
History is full of examples of huge corporations toppling, when a new start-up came out of the woodwork with a fresh, new idea. (Remember when IBM was "Big Blue", the dominant player in all things computing? Apparently, a couple of college drop-outs appeared with "personal computer" ideas and wound up knocking them right over.)
Only marginally true. IBM is still healthy and making lots of money, since they're still dominant in their own market (minicomputers). The reason Apple, Microsoft and others could grow so quickly was that a *new* market opened up (personal computers).
Preferably a car analogy!
two major parties means they pander to the middle. this is actually a good thing, as it means the government actually represents the will of the people: the middle. of course cranks on the left or right will complain about the leaders being too liberal/ conservative, but this is only because they consider the MIDDLE to be too liberal/ conservative. but the job of the government is to represent the people, and when you have two parties fighting over votes from the middle, and adjusting their message accordingly, the people actually get represented and THIS IS A VERY GOOD THING
but in coalition governments, you have all these factions, and they freely completely betray their ideology in order to get in bed to share power with other factions, having nothing whatsoever to do with advancing whatever fringe position you believe in, but everything to do with a craven grab for power. ask any german. in other words, you look to other systems as if they were better than the two party system. but that's only because you are unfamiliar with the awful evils of coalition governments and other forms of democracy. you would complain just as loudly as you are now in another democratic system. because there's ALWAYS a betrayal and weakness somewhere
you don't recognize the strengths of the two party system. so be careful what you wish for, and know the actual truth of politics for what it is: ugly, no matter what the system. personally, i believe the two party system is superior, if you analyze the pluses and minuses impartially, rather than simply moan cynically out of unawareness of other weaknesses in other systems. two systems pandering to the middle is wonderful for stability and keeping fringe left leaning and fringe right leaning voices out of our government
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
This is so hilariously wrong.
They exist for numerous reasons. To entertain. To call attention to a certain theme. To criticize the political process itself. To parody other parties. Etc.
They are not international. They are region-free.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
I want to add the crucial detail of it saying “gold”. Not “dollars”. This is intentional.
YARRR, surely don't all the corps be havin' all the Doubloons!
However ideal the agenda of the party might actually be, the term 'pirate' is very heavily associated with anarchy and activities that involve breaking the law, rather than the far more positive notion of working within the legal system to effect the potentially revolutionary changes that the Pirate Party wishes to advocate. Unfortunately, people who have never heard of them will take one look at the name and judge the party based on that, rather than investigate what their actual platforms are. Without a name change, they don't have a hope in hell of making a difference. They are likely going to be taken about as seriously as the Rhino Party.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
but are often as a group the targets of bigotry from other members of their own party
They are often the targets of bigotry from themselves.
From your Wikipedia link:
Don't both.
Real political parties don't exist on niche platforms.
Its like you're in a car. When your driving on a flat surface, you can drive quickly and use 5th gear. But when you're going up a hill you have to switch into a lower gear and you will inevitably slow down.
I for one, welcome our new high-seas-sailing Swedish masters!
Please forgive my previous comment. I just downloaded Grey's Anatomy off the pirate bay to avoid the commercials and... well I got a little carried away.
How do they swallow the fact that the Pirate Parties are now taking a legal and official route to copyright reform?
If it comes that far, they will just claim that copyright can only be strengthened, not reduced, because of international treaties with no expiration dates and no exit clauses, exactly as they were designed by the lobbyists. Just like our politicians like to blame bad stuff on the EU (despite the fact that new directives have required a unanimous approval in the Council of Ministers), yours will likely blame it on international treaties and international law.
"Do what you want cause a pirate is free, you are a pirate! Yar - har - fiddle-dee-dee."
i used to help these twits
then
came there new leader a man with connections to actors and hollywood
he uses apple products galore
has connections to govt run cbc reporters
and you begin to wonder whose running it now and its why its nothing more then any other party in canada
people wanting POWER
when you have to threaten callign the org , anti-p2p cause they dont recognize downloading well you know they are NOT A PIRATE PARTY
The various Pirate Parties are independent, there is no hierachy.
Aren't you forgetting something, such as the Pirate Lords and their Brethren Court? Now that's hierARRRRchy.
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
It's called the "golden rule" - he who has the gold, makes the rules.
You know, I was just thinking about that bastardization this truth yesterday. I've actually met a couple younger guys who did not know the origin of "The Golden Rule" - the ethic of reciprocity (treat others as you would have them treat you) - they actually believed the golden rule referred to money and power. Mention the golden rule in public somewhere, and odds are very good that you will hear your joke, only. Is that single notion of tolerance no longer part of the public education process?
corporations definitely make the rules, go do some research on Oprah being sued by the beef industry for saying she wouldn't eat another hamburger, or go check out Monsanto and their patented soy beans
That's just what the Pirate overlords WANT you to think...
Yarrr, were be me tinfoil hat?
Treaties are indeed an exceptionally powerful restriction on popular choice. The are IIRC sub-ordinate to the Constitution, establishing an amendment with more appropriate copyright and patent terms would override any treaties specifications, and Santa, I would also like a pony.
There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
I'm no expert in the fine details of US politics.
But since the Green party unwantingly helped Bush the victory in
2000. To fix this, would it be possible to form a Green part within
the Democrates?
And a PirateParty part and so on.
If this has any tiny chance of working, plz try it.
There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
Sure it is, every collegiate knows how much booze they can swill before they pass out.
There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
Nestle is Swiss, not American.
I wonder if they are going to use this as their campaign video?
http://www.youtube.com/v/yL3pYTyF8Zk&hl=de&fs=1
It is nice to see a different point of view LOL
I wish I were so naive. Corporate campaign donations put politicians into office, and corporate lobbyists write the laws. This is supposed to be a democratic republic, but instead it's simply a plutocracy.
I wish I could find it online to link, but Scott Adams had it pegged in "The CEO and the Senator" (I have it hanging on my wall in my office).
Dogbert: It wouldn't be legal for me to bribe you.
So I hired your wife as a consultant despite the fact that she thinks "present value" is some sort of gift card.
And I wrote some legislation for you because you're a lazy thief.
Senator: Ha Ha! Lets call that "access".
Free Martian Whores!
When Kennedy ran for President of the United States of America, there was a very vocal opposition faction that didn't want him because he was Roman Catholic. The fear was that he would prioritize the Church over country when making decisions
Those fears were never realized, so I'm sure you see the gaping hole in your logic when you posit that the Pirate Party in Canada won't put Canada first, or a yet nonexistant US Pirate Party wouldn't put the US first. The Canadian Pirate Party candidates will be Canadian, not European.
Turning over power to multinationalists is a bad idea because generalized solutions do not necessarily fit the specific needs of any particular country.
I don't know about Canada, but the multinational corporations already have most of the power in the US, and their CEOIs are not patriotic in the least; their only alliegance is to profit and Ferengenar. Don't expect any of them to be anything like Kennedy.
Free Martian Whores!
I miss the Natural Law Party. Those guys were a hoot, especially since they were being completely serious while their policies were completely ridiculous. For example, their defense policy was to use meditation to create a peace bubble surrounding Canada. Great stuff.
I LOVED them. The leaflets they sent around were always good reading. My favorite parts were that their meditators who levitate (shown on TV, it's more like trying to hop while your legs are crossed), and the peace bubble you mentioned.
Their explanation of how it worked was basically "A superconductor carries energy with no resistance. It's just like that, except with meditators instead of superconductors." Here's some SCIENCE! That's how it's done, but not! Confused? It's SCIENCE! Look at this ball labeled "superconductor" with wavy lines drawn around it! See how we drew the same wavy lines around a map of Canada? SCIENCE! Enemy missiles are resistance, so it stops them because there's no resistance! SCIENCE!
And no, I'm not kidding. Their proof was literally a drawing of a ball with wavy lines around it next to a map of Canada with the same wavy lines around it.
IMO five years is way too short; the Paxil Diaries are from 2003 and I haven't published them in book form yet. Some things take more than five years to accomplish (especially if you have other things on your plate, like earning a living doing something besides creating copyrightable material). But twenty is a reasonable term; that's how long patents last. Anything longer than 30 is way too long.
Free Martian Whores!
I notice you do not refute his claim, but rather attack him. Perhaps you should try refuting the claim with respectable, verifiable information.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
We have had Mickey Mouse (tm) political parties forever, big media and their bumbling irk are well represented. I expect they won't have much to say until after the election,
With a first-past-the-post election system the Pirate Party are all but certain to not be represented in parliament, but they may gain enough votes for public funding and, since we've run minority governments the last 3 elections, the other parties are likely to pay close attention to where their votes go and adopt some of their platform.
This is a very good thing for Canadian democracy, copyright reform, and the digitally enlightened voter. Even for those that disagree with the PP platform, it will help push digital issues onto the table.
Sure.
http://www.pp-international.net/
it's in my head
internationals don't have a nationality. In fact, internationals and the people behind them are seriously past the nation-theme, or should I say : they exploit it.
Yes, I'm left. You have a problem with that?
Sorry, but that website is not respectable, in the sense that it is a blog of and for supporters of the various Pirate Parties. One would not take seriously the blog of a Republican or Democrat as a respectable source of information about the worthiness and truthfulness of the respective parties.
Try again please.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
Goldman Sachs.
1) Infiltrate government.
2) Remove regulations.
3) Profit!
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
I'm going to Canada!
I can't say if I am for or against the ACTA . . . because I don't know the details.
If you want to know the details, the full text of the treaty (as of March 23rd anyway) is out there.
I love this so much I must break the law and improve it...
First, understand the song;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major-General's_Song
Second, watch the best performance of this ever;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSloW2coCDQ
Third, lyrics again slightly modified;
This is the very model of a modern pirate metaphor.
We're needed as our leadership is clearly challenged heretofore.
They call it theft for reasons that are clearly quite subliminal.
In order to support a model that is quite primordial.
Infringement is a civil matter, extortion is quite criminal.
But legislation's killing our new highway that is digital.
And so we need a party that will argue antithetical.
In order to preserve our freedoms are indispensable.
Finally, if you're young, put this in perspective;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLsJyfN0ICU
You're essentially accusing the Pirate Party of lying on their main web site - at least, lying through omission. Considering that you make that claim, I'm waiting for some support for that accusation. It's also possible to turn that question on its head: since there is no evidence against the various Pirate parties being regional, independent organizations, what makes you think that they aren't?
I can also ask you about white crows, but I'll leave that philosophical exercise out for now.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
I do not need to support anything as I did not make any accusations.
If one can not point to a website run or associated with something unpopular on Slashdot to support one's positive claims or validate one's positive point about said thing, then one should not be able to point to a website run or associated with something popular on Slashdot to support one's positive claims or validate one's positive point about said thing.
All I did was hold the OP and the Pirate Party up to the same standards as things that are not popular here on Slashdot.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
(GP poster here)
> In fact, the man most people probably consider the quintessential Libertarian figure today -- Ron Paul?
Well that brings up a few points:
1. The Libertarians are a good example of my premise. Ron Paul might be a Presidential long-shot, but he actually does manage to get elected to Congress. His son has a good shot at getting elected to the Senate, last I heard. There have also been libertarian-ish Republicans who have one other high offices (for example, Gary E. Johnson was governor of New Mexico for 8 years).
Meanwhile, despite decades of political organizing, how often is the Libertarian party actually viable in an election? Most places you couldn't get elected as dogcatcher under their banner. So I'd say that the individuals that have been most effective in advancing their message have been the ones who have avoided the party and instead worked within the Republicans.
2. Libertarians are in a somewhat difficult position because they are a multi-issue party with some of their policies more attractive to republican (smaller government) and some are more attractive to democrats (personal liberties). This means that a libertarian voter could lean towards either of the two parties depending on what PART of the libertarian message is more important to themselves.
Still, I think if instead of trying to compete as a political party the Libertarians renamed themselves "Republicans For Personal Liberties" or "Democrats For A Small Government" they could get their ideas taken more seriously.
As an example, look at the "Religious Right". If they formed their own party they wouldn't be electable many places. In fact, since they would siphon off Republican voters and just end up electing more Democrats. Instead, they're shrewd enough to become a vocal faction of the Republican base. (Yet, they have their own organizations, their own events, etc) Their message clearly gets heard in the halls of power as a result, because there are hundreds of congresspeople who know that the RR helped get them elected.
3. I'm an outside observer to libertarian politics so this last point is probably biased by my personal disagreement with their economic theories. I also believe that the libertarians have an issue because its actually made up of several sub-constituencies which aren't very compatible. If they were ever to wield actual political power, I suspect the fractures would begin to show. It seems to me that there are three types of libertarians:
A. The true-believers in the message. Jokingly referred to as "Republicans who smoke pot". They truly want a tiny government, and vast civil liberties. Kudos to them: like I said, I disagree strongly with their economic policies, but at least they have a consistent, defensible platform.
B. The western rancher-types who are irked that they live in an area where the feds own so much of the land. Basically, they don't REALLY want government to leave them alone, they want the government to give them a multimillion dollar handout of federal land. They kind of dress up their arguments in libertarian terms, but they're really no different than every other agricultural-lobby looking for government subsidy.
C. The Paul-ites. I call these people "economics as explained by old USENET kooks". You can tell if you're dealing with one of them if they won't shut up about the Federal Reserve, or if they don't understand how the gold standard is an anachronism. I don't know how these people feel in aggregate about personal liberties (as long as you don't outlaw tinfoil hats) but I think they mostly embrace the libertarian banner because it's the only one marginal enough to listen to hem.
there are pluses and minuses to every system. i happen to view pandering to the middle to be extremely important. and i don't accept that two parties is for some reason why iraq was invaded, that if it weren't two parties, iraq would not be invaded, which to me is a ludicrous wild suggestion on your part
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
"corporations don't make laws or form government you silly twit."
Where have you been living the last 50 years? Certainly not on Earth. Money is what elects candidates, and corporate money is thousands of times stronger than the population. Combine that with no term limits on Congress, and recent scotus decisions like:
http://www.scotuswiki.com/index.php?title=Citizens_United_v._Federal_Election_Commission
The US is as close to fascism as you can get without actually officially declaring itself fascist.
No, sorry, you are indeed making accusations. You're claiming that there's a secret behind-the-scenes elite running the various Pirate Parties. Feel free to support your accusations whenever you want to ;)
The rest of us (and yes, I voted for the Pirate Party in the european elections in Sweden) know that the Pirate Party/parties are about openness. If there's something you want to know, feel free to read the various websites and ask questions on the forums.
Comparing (pp) to republicans and democrats, now that's funny ;)
it's in my head
The goals of the party are essentially dictated centrally from Sweden
I'm curious as to why you think your fantasies are of interest to the rest of us? :)
I was under the impression that there's a lucrative market for Swedish fantasies? ;)
According to the Berne Convection, while you have to respect the copyright for work produced in other countries for as long as they wish (up to 75 years), you can reduce your own copyright limits (for works produced in your country). If the PPs actually get any influence in many countries, it could effectively reduce copyright terms.
Dilbert RSS feed
So, you and your party deserve special treatment and shouldn't have to be held to the standards that you demand of others.
Sounds like special pleading to me.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
weird petrifying helplessness
"I'm saying in a two party system the electorate can't punish them for this decision to go to war (UK case), or for anything else the general public thinks were bad decisions."
uh... they vote?!
"Your claim is that two party system is pandering to the middle. But the way I see it is that the middle is dragged to wherever the two parties want to take it - because the middle has no choice in the matter anyway."
uh... maybe they vote?!
have you ever heard of VOTING?
wtf?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
that gore would have invaded iraq
tell me with a straight face that mccain would overhaul healthcare
its' like this: from out in the prairie, two peaks in the rocky mountains look the same. but in the valley between those mountains, they couldn't be more different
the two parties ARE different. VERY different in HUGE ways. but not different enough for you. but that's only because your perspective is from far away. being on the fringe though, frankly, your perspective doesn't matter and shouldn't matter: the middle, and only the middle matters, and should matter, in a stable democracy
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I thought the pirate party was official in Australia? I was sure I heard they would be contesting the next federal election.
I notice you do not refute his claim, but rather attack him. Perhaps you should try refuting the claim with respectable, verifiable information.
How about this, I'm a member and volunteer with the Pirate party UK, I help write our press releases; I've never met nor heard from a member of the Swedish pirate party, they certainly don't tell us what to do; our manifesto went to a clause by clause vote to the entire membership. So unless all party members are being mind controlled from Sweden the original claim is rubbish.
If I have nothing to hide, you have no reason to search me
(pirates in the physical world are dangerous, armed criminals)
Who protect Somalia's marine ecosystems, by the way.
Who tells you to write the press releases and what to put in them?
Who wrote the clauses?
Because you don't seem to be in charge but rather a secretary or public affairs officer, who is actually in charge?
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
Who tells you to write the press releases and what to put in them? Who wrote the clauses?
Because you don't seem to be in charge but rather a secretary or public affairs officer, who is actually in charge?
No one tells me what to write. Usually some sort of request from a journalist will come into my inbox (and the others on the press team - it's a mailing list), or a big story will be in the news and one of us will start a new PiratePad* and the team will start working on it. It's like a wiki in real time all of the team available will work on it. Once we've agreed on the wording we proof read it, and email it out to our contacts list. All press releases are also available here: http://www.pirateparty.org.uk/press
The ultimate responsibility for anything that gets sent out falls to the Campaigns Officer on the National executive committee (NEC), but for most day to day tasks he helps out like anyone else; there's no sense of hierarchy as we're all volunteers (including all the NEC members; there are no paid party posts not least because we're only ~8 months old and can't afford to pay anyone).
As for the manifesto, it was debated on the PPUK forums and an initial straw poll taken, the options on the official ballot on were ultimately decided by the NEC (I'm not sure of the exact mechanism, but I suspect it's in our constitution), the members of whom were elected by a vote of all party members, and the positions were open to any party member who wished to stand; there was also a re-open nominations option on the ballot. To control the PPUK, the Swedes would have had to rig multiple ballots, even supposing they tried to do that, our copyright policy is different from theirs, so they weren't very successful. I hope I've put this conspiracy to bed.
*An implimentation of the OSS Etherpad
If I have nothing to hide, you have no reason to search me
I fail to see why you believe the fantasies in your post above (special treatment, demand of others [who does? what? where?]) are of interest to the rest of us ;)
it's in my head
I guess you can't read or have little to no reading comprehension. Saying that everyone else has to provide neutral sources, which members and supporters of the Pirate party have repeated done on Slashdot, then saying it is OK to support their positions with biased sites run by supporters is expecting special treatment.
I figure you are just another selfish asshole, like the rest of the pussy pirate party.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
I fail to understand how come I'm supposed to answer for what others have done (at least, according to your claims). Would you like me to use the same lousy argumentation technique on you now? ;)
You must be really frightened by something.
it's in my head
NDP are also notorious for running Ontario and Saskatchewan into the ground,
I think you mean Ontario and BC. The saskatchewan NDP saved us from bankruptcy the last time they were in power, and spent a decade cleaning up the mess the PCs left us in, only for the saskatchewan public to forget the whole thing and vote the PCs(oop, I mean Sask Party) back in again, who have proceeded to predictably start running the province into the ground again.
In general I think the federal NDP are kind of a mix, and what you can expect from them is only partially what you could expect at the provincial level on average.
GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
Christian Heritage Party, you know the ones who were brought in by the human rights tribunal lately for thoughtcrimes?
GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
I know I'm replying to a post you made about a week ago.... so not even sure you'll see or feel like replying at this point? But you bring up some great points and arguments -- and I'd be interested in talking about this a little more in-depth.
I'm not sure your "3 types of Libertarians" is really accurate.... I grant that your choice B. may in fact be correct. I haven't really spent a lot of time listening to what western ranchers are complaining about, I suppose, but plenty of people are looking for a govt. handout, using whatever angle they think works best for them. But I take some issue with the labeling of people as "Paul-ites". That seemed to me, more than anything, a knee-jerk response from those with opposing beliefs, upon seeing that Ron Paul was actually gaining some popularity and traction.
Most of the libertarian-minded people I've encountered who are very educated about things are *both* in favor of a tiny government and vast civil liberties, AND see that the Federal Reserve is one of the areas of govt. that needs to be examined closely (and quite possibly eliminated). At the very least, I'm not sure how anyone can defend the current "leadership" in the Fed, given their history of working for the very investment firms on Wall Street that caused much of our economic downturn, with their deceptive and shady practices.
Whether or not the gold standard is an anachronism is a good subject for debate, but I think the downsides of moving away from it are very clear today. (Bottom line: When you're forced to back your nation's currency with a hard good of equal value, you make it *impossible* to print money out of thin air whenever you find it convenient to have some more to spend.)