That was a statement from a lawyer that said they would have the right to do so. Lawyers don't comment on facts, they say what they need to say to cover the companies ass whatever the truth turns out to be.
TFA says they haven't said whether the data is sent up to Apple, but that Apple says if the want to it's "within their right to do so".
Yeah, no thanks.
He's a fucking lawyer, what do you expect him to say ? This is NOT a real statement on location services, it's a lawyer spouting ass-covering bullshit.
We've got stores in Belgium that do both delivery and pickup services. They are part of the Delhaize group, active in the US under the name Food Lion. I don't know if they offer the same services there though.
No, you're cherry-picking the lawsuits, I could post a list of people suing Apple and claim other companies are trying to destroy iOS momentum through the courts. That's not what's happening though, they are just trying to claw themselves to the top of the pile through any means necessary in what is currently the most competitive part of the computer industry. Some of these companies are going the way of the dodo and they know it, no ammo will go unused.
It's not an Apple or MS thing, everyone is suing everyone else in mobile. Because this is where the money is and this is sadly the way business is conducted these days. To pick on Apple for their ridiculous patent suits and not the other companies just shows the bias (or ignorance) of the journalist.
Yes evil Apple offering 2 kinds of iPad, forcing people, so stupid they are falling for it, to buy the more expensive one. Give me a break and give people some credit. They offer a choice, then they're only trying to get you to buy the more expensive one; they make something simple, then it's too stupid; they make something full featured, then it's too expensive. You just can't please some people.
Please, Apple went the exact opposite direction: people were clamoring to let them tether their (wifi) iPad to their iPhone when the iPad first came out and they refused because they wanted the iPad to stand on its own.
They are trying to reach out to people like me. Iâ(TM)m working for a big mobile game developer company (hence posting as AC), and I told our CEO, that I'd rather quit and take my whole team with me, than to develop for WP7.
That's interesting. I wonder if they are offering deals to XBox developers behind the scenes to get them to develop for WP7, if they are we might see some enticing WP7 only releases.
Microsoft has a huge developer base, they are Nokia desperately needs and what MS is bringing to the table in this deal. MS can evidently count on these developers to give their platform a shot, historically not a bad gamble. The foundation has been laid, now comes the critical part: converting these available apps into actual sales and a viable business financially. So far the only platform where users consistently spend a lot of money is iOS with Android a distant second.
It's good news for all those people who couldn't give a rat's ass: soon there will be cheaper, synthetic rat's asses that they will be able to purchase and give.
No, it's actually more. I just ran the analyzer and it shows my trip to the SF Bay Area in January. I'm sure, like many other are saying, that it's just a cell-tower-location-caching system. But it'd be nice if stuff like this were auto-purged after a few days.
Exellent post. There's more on this blog where a forensics expert points out this is old news, with a picture of a book from 2010 that contains all the information on this "secret" and "scary" database file. Guess these "researchers" don't keep up with the literature, heh.
It's not the same kind of information at all. The android file (only available if you have root) is a temporary cache. That is totally difference then the Apple file which holds the data about your location since you bought the phone.
Talking about objectivity, where did you hear it holds data since you bought the phone ? The only date I've seen Wired's 10 months. Granted that's longer than the month (for cell) and year (for wifi) the data seems to be retained on Android but, crucially, we don't know the reason for this. There could be a technical reason, or it could be negligence but you choose to jump straight to maliciousness. You are making as many assumptions as the people you criticize, just from the opposite standpoint.
According to the github link, the Android data are flushed every 24-48 hours.
Where did you read that ? Actual quote :
"However, data is only pruned when new info is added. There is no time based pruning unless there is new data being added to the cache."
You must be talking about this:
// Maximum time (in millis) that a record is valid for, before it needs// to be refreshed from the server.
private static final long MAX_CELL_REFRESH_RECORD_AGE = 12 * 60 * 60 * 1000;// 12 hours
private static final long MAX_WIFI_REFRESH_RECORD_AGE = 48 * 60 * 60 * 1000;// 48 hours// Cache sizes
private static final int MAX_CELL_RECORDS = 50;
private static final int MAX_WIFI_RECORDS = 200;
Which to me means, for cell, record age (12 hours) * records kept (50) = 25 days.
Secondary question: is there a similar location cache on Android? If so, the screech should be just as loud outside of Google's offices and every cell provider's offices. If it's evil for Apple to do, it is equally evil for Google to do, and you either call out both of them or neither of them. Selecting just one reveals the color of one's kneepads.
Yes it has, it seems data is retained for a shorter time than on iOS though.
TFA seems only to prove that Apple is not 'tracking your every move' in the literal sense, they are just 'tracking your every move within the accuracy a phone on standby is able to, aggregated to a weekly basis'. Oh, well that's ok, if it's that inaccurate, surely my privacy isn't threatened! The writer is an apologist for Apple - after all, why end it with 'well if that argument didn't convince, someone else is doing it too! If everyone's doing it, it must be right!' (majorly paraphased).
People are also concluding that this data isn't 'phoned home'. But I don't believe they have the sourcecode for the software on their iphone, and if they did, that they have looked through it.
And as for the parent - your 'cell'phone provider needs to know where you are in order to supply your 'cell'. Not saying that justifies them keeping a record of it, but on the other hand, your bank has a record of all the transactions you have made involving your bank account. I'm not sure what justification a cellphone maker has to record your whereabouts.
Well we have (old versions) of Android's sourcecode and guess what, they have a location cache too.
"This is a quick dumper I threw together to parse the files from the Android location provider. The files are named cache.cell & cache.wifi and is located in/data/data/com.google.android.location/files on the Android device. You will need root access to the device to read this directory."
Can't say I'm surprised. Apple seems to retain the data longer than Android does but they might be doing some analysis on it to improve connection or it could just be a lazy programmer at Apple somewhere.
If you want to know if it's phoning home the data, sniff the connection. A lot of paranoiacs do this all the time and from time to time they come up with interesting tidbits apps send home, nothing about location data though.
That's really interesting and a cool demo. Can't say I'm surprised about it though. Banks know how much money you have, your ISP knows what sites you go to and your phone company knows where your cellphone is (approximately) and who and when you call. It's self-evident when you think about it. The work-around is simple: leave it at home or anonymize yourself by using a prepaid card.
They are acting as feudal lords granting privilege to some by decree, privilege that shouldn't be theirs to grant. On Amazon's terms, subject to Amazon's goodwill. "There are an estimated 122,101 libraries of all kinds in the United States today." Amazon today has granted less than 10% of those libraries the right to do with their digital books what they have always had the right to do with physical books bought from Amazon. In the process they are binding these libraries to Amazon ebooks to be read on the Kindle or through Kindle apps. Hell, they are probably making the libraries pay for the infrastructure to do the lending, or part of it. The internet and digitization of media was supposed to eliminate the middlemen, not create new, more powerful ones.
I'd say it's about as unethical as appropriating the right to decide which libraries get to lend books bought in your store. You wouldn't accept that from a brick-and-mortar store, why is OK for Amazon to ? There's no honor among thieves, which is something all tech companies should consider before stealing away a users' rights.
Perhaps they are just rehiring the contract workers these companiesshed when the financial crisis hit ? You know, the ones without all the glitzy stock options and employee benefits that you never here about.
30% stupid isn't a bad ratio on slashdot;-) but "overrated" is really the "disagree"-mod, isn't it ? Hey well that's the risks of joining in the fun, I guess. I could've just modded myself but sometimes you just got to get out there and express your opinion, how else would you find out why it's so stupid:-) ?
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That was a statement from a lawyer that said they would have the right to do so. Lawyers don't comment on facts, they say what they need to say to cover the companies ass whatever the truth turns out to be.
Start with the girls of the IDF and work your way through the middle east from there.
It seems Symphonies and all were created in those halcyon days of "live performances"
Don't be silly. I'm sure Beethoven had an ipod.
That would explain why he went deaf.
TFA says they haven't said whether the data is sent up to Apple, but that Apple says if the want to it's "within their right to do so".
Yeah, no thanks.
He's a fucking lawyer, what do you expect him to say ? This is NOT a real statement on location services, it's a lawyer spouting ass-covering bullshit.
We've got stores in Belgium that do both delivery and pickup services. They are part of the Delhaize group, active in the US under the name Food Lion. I don't know if they offer the same services there though.
No, you're cherry-picking the lawsuits, I could post a list of people suing Apple and claim other companies are trying to destroy iOS momentum through the courts. That's not what's happening though, they are just trying to claw themselves to the top of the pile through any means necessary in what is currently the most competitive part of the computer industry. Some of these companies are going the way of the dodo and they know it, no ammo will go unused.
It's not an Apple or MS thing, everyone is suing everyone else in mobile. Because this is where the money is and this is sadly the way business is conducted these days. To pick on Apple for their ridiculous patent suits and not the other companies just shows the bias (or ignorance) of the journalist.
Yes evil Apple offering 2 kinds of iPad, forcing people, so stupid they are falling for it, to buy the more expensive one. Give me a break and give people some credit. They offer a choice, then they're only trying to get you to buy the more expensive one; they make something simple, then it's too stupid; they make something full featured, then it's too expensive. You just can't please some people.
Please, Apple went the exact opposite direction: people were clamoring to let them tether their (wifi) iPad to their iPhone when the iPad first came out and they refused because they wanted the iPad to stand on its own.
They are trying to reach out to people like me.
Iâ(TM)m working for a big mobile game developer company (hence posting as AC), and I told our CEO, that I'd rather quit and take my whole team with me, than to develop for WP7.
That's interesting. I wonder if they are offering deals to XBox developers behind the scenes to get them to develop for WP7, if they are we might see some enticing WP7 only releases.
Microsoft has a huge developer base, they are Nokia desperately needs and what MS is bringing to the table in this deal. MS can evidently count on these developers to give their platform a shot, historically not a bad gamble. The foundation has been laid, now comes the critical part: converting these available apps into actual sales and a viable business financially. So far the only platform where users consistently spend a lot of money is iOS with Android a distant second.
It's good news for all those people who couldn't give a rat's ass: soon there will be cheaper, synthetic rat's asses that they will be able to purchase and give.
No, it's actually more. I just ran the analyzer and it shows my trip to the SF Bay Area in January. I'm sure, like many other are saying, that it's just a cell-tower-location-caching system. But it'd be nice if stuff like this were auto-purged after a few days.
There's already an App for that in Cydia
The android caches are flushed every 48 hours
Then why does the article say : "There is no time based pruning unless there is new data being added to the cache.", what's your source on that ?
Exellent post. There's more on this blog where a forensics expert points out this is old news, with a picture of a book from 2010 that contains all the information on this "secret" and "scary" database file. Guess these "researchers" don't keep up with the literature, heh.
It's not the same kind of information at all. The android file (only available if you have root) is a temporary cache. That is totally difference then the Apple file which holds the data about your location since you bought the phone.
Talking about objectivity, where did you hear it holds data since you bought the phone ? The only date I've seen Wired's 10 months. Granted that's longer than the month (for cell) and year (for wifi) the data seems to be retained on Android but, crucially, we don't know the reason for this. There could be a technical reason, or it could be negligence but you choose to jump straight to maliciousness. You are making as many assumptions as the people you criticize, just from the opposite standpoint.
Anecdotally, my Nexus S contains no such file.
According to the github link, the Android data are flushed every 24-48 hours.
Where did you read that ? Actual quote :
"However, data is only pruned when new info is added. There is no time based pruning unless there is new data being added to the cache."
You must be talking about this :
private static final long MAX_CELL_REFRESH_RECORD_AGE = 12 * 60 * 60 * 1000;
private static final long MAX_WIFI_REFRESH_RECORD_AGE = 48 * 60 * 60 * 1000;
private static final int MAX_CELL_RECORDS = 50;
private static final int MAX_WIFI_RECORDS = 200;
Which to me means, for cell, record age (12 hours) * records kept (50) = 25 days.
then why are so few stolen phones recovered?
Because criminals with more than 2 braincells turn them off ?
Secondary question: is there a similar location cache on Android? If so, the screech should be just as loud outside of Google's offices and every cell provider's offices. If it's evil for Apple to do, it is equally evil for Google to do, and you either call out both of them or neither of them. Selecting just one reveals the color of one's kneepads.
Yes it has, it seems data is retained for a shorter time than on iOS though.
TFA seems only to prove that Apple is not 'tracking your every move' in the literal sense, they are just 'tracking your every move within the accuracy a phone on standby is able to, aggregated to a weekly basis'. Oh, well that's ok, if it's that inaccurate, surely my privacy isn't threatened! The writer is an apologist for Apple - after all, why end it with 'well if that argument didn't convince, someone else is doing it too! If everyone's doing it, it must be right!' (majorly paraphased).
People are also concluding that this data isn't 'phoned home'. But I don't believe they have the sourcecode for the software on their iphone, and if they did, that they have looked through it.
And as for the parent - your 'cell'phone provider needs to know where you are in order to supply your 'cell'. Not saying that justifies them keeping a record of it, but on the other hand, your bank has a record of all the transactions you have made involving your bank account. I'm not sure what justification a cellphone maker has to record your whereabouts.
Well we have (old versions) of Android's sourcecode and guess what, they have a location cache too.
"This is a quick dumper I threw together to parse the files from the Android location provider. /data/data/com.google.android.location/files on the Android device.
The files are named cache.cell & cache.wifi and is located in
You will need root access to the device to read this directory."
Can't say I'm surprised. Apple seems to retain the data longer than Android does but they might be doing some analysis on it to improve connection or it could just be a lazy programmer at Apple somewhere.
If you want to know if it's phoning home the data, sniff the connection. A lot of paranoiacs do this all the time and from time to time they come up with interesting tidbits apps send home, nothing about location data though.
That's really interesting and a cool demo. Can't say I'm surprised about it though. Banks know how much money you have, your ISP knows what sites you go to and your phone company knows where your cellphone is (approximately) and who and when you call. It's self-evident when you think about it. The work-around is simple: leave it at home or anonymize yourself by using a prepaid card.
They are acting as feudal lords granting privilege to some by decree, privilege that shouldn't be theirs to grant. On Amazon's terms, subject to Amazon's goodwill.
"There are an estimated 122,101 libraries of all kinds in the United States today." Amazon today has granted less than 10% of those libraries the right to do with their digital books what they have always had the right to do with physical books bought from Amazon. In the process they are binding these libraries to Amazon ebooks to be read on the Kindle or through Kindle apps. Hell, they are probably making the libraries pay for the infrastructure to do the lending, or part of it. The internet and digitization of media was supposed to eliminate the middlemen, not create new, more powerful ones.
I'd say it's about as unethical as appropriating the right to decide which libraries get to lend books bought in your store. You wouldn't accept that from a brick-and-mortar store, why is OK for Amazon to ? There's no honor among thieves, which is something all tech companies should consider before stealing away a users' rights.
Perhaps they are just rehiring the contract workers these companies shed when the financial crisis hit ? You know, the ones without all the glitzy stock options and employee benefits that you never here about.
30% stupid isn't a bad ratio on slashdot ;-) but "overrated" is really the "disagree"-mod, isn't it ? :-) ?
Hey well that's the risks of joining in the fun, I guess. I could've just modded myself but sometimes you just got to get out there and express your opinion, how else would you find out why it's so stupid