we have this in gnome NOW named BONOBO but hey we have 200 apps for gnome now and only 10 are using BONOBO i really doubt that with GNOME 2.0 everyone will ever move to GCONF or make their app PLUGINABLE.. things look different on KDE..
only thing I can add is that Bonobo has been an "experimental" technology for a while, so there hasn't been so much adoption for it in GNOME, people just wanted it to settle down, most of issues resolved.
The exact same situation was with KDE, but as KDE people started writing their embeddable applications, things got rolling and now we have KDE in it's state. (btw, good work KDE people..).
now, that GNOME is nearing maturity (that 1.0 was really a lowly 0.5..), these thing are going to spread and GNOME community will get more of bonoable apps..
And maybe someone will write a proxy to convert KDE parts to bonobo and vice-versa...;)
You are about 2 years out of date. The QT licence prevents you from using the free version of QT in closed-source code, the same is true of Gnome's license.
How many open-source WINDOWS Qt Applications have you seen lately?
Cause I've seen totally 0, none, nada.
(speaking of KDE) My bet is that their decision to use Gnome has more to do with the geographical location of its core developers than the code itself.
I read this some tim ago on KDE KT Cousin, basically they say that KDE isn't that portable, and port to Sun asch is going to take a while. GNOME is plain C and has ran on Sun for a long time, so there's not so much trouble to go through.
Consider also that KDE uses C++, and Sun's own compilers isn't maybe so good at C++ and g++ sucks on Sun too...
And.. If Sun used KDE on their arch, they'd had to pay Qt $$. That's pretty hard to explain to shareholders when there's equivalent totally FREE option available.
I'm not talking about government however;P
To simply trust someone as being "independent" merely because they don't seem to be affiliated with one vendor or another would be naive, IMO. Tom has already been suspect after the fiasco involving NVidia 3D accelerators.
Sorry, missed that one, could you brief me on that one?
It doesn't seem too practical to me. Most apps don't benefit greatly from SMP anyway. Add to that the potential heat problems caused by two cores on one chip...Why not just go with a more traditional SMP approach? At least you won't have to worry too much about heat then.
Yo! Helloou? Where are you living man? In what decade? This is year 2001 and most of "cooperative multitasking" crap is buried in hell with windows 3.1 and alikes. Even MacOS is phasing out (though that one worked out pretty nicely [because of interface built that way])
You get tremendous boost when using SMP. There's no way to describe it, it's just awesome!
Remember, you run pretty many tasks continuously, and simultaneously! There's maybe apache, mozilla, bluefish, emacs & others running all the time! For chrissakes, why do you think distros make X 'nice -10'? Most of the applications are multithreaded by now, not doing it is just insane, simply because of different overheads & application responsiviness.
Just think for a moment before posting something like that..
Mmm.. MS basically fucked up with whole Internet thing. They took their heads out of their asses AFTER they saw that netscape got it right.
They didn't even have native TCP/IP in Win3.1.
Oh Yeah, and have you read BG's "Road Ahead"? I have, and BG underestimates internet in it _badly_. That went to press circa '94-'95.
But now that they've got their wheel spinning, there's not much that can stop them.
> If the Bundestag administration is not able to print.doc documents as they were shown in someone else's Word 2K (with correct table dimenstions, bullets, idents and images), it would make people laugh hard at them.
Actually, I've never been able to print with any of MS tools with right dimensions. When I set width to 10cm, it's always either 10.1 or 9.9cm. Dunno why, tried on many different installations/printer configurations.
> So where the spec says it's a 'world' phone, it aint.
> IMO 900MHz + 1800MHz + 1900MHz = world phone.
IANARF, but 1800 is (usually) available only when 900 is. There is "localnets" that are only 1800 (innner city areas), but even in US they're not that common because of long distances involved.
I noticed that in 2.4.10 (+preempt -patch), in xterm sometimes when one C-Z's a process, it just stalls.. ps aux doesn't show anything, nor does xterm responce.. Weirdest thing is that it doesn't happen all the time, only sometimes.
(oh yes, xterm is certainly alive, it scrolls on demand and when I press keys they show up, it's just that bash never comes up.)
> And we are certainly engaging in terrorist activity when, after the Tabilan's air defenses are taken out that we will continue our history hundreds of millions of dollars of humanitarian aid to the Afghani people by air dropping food and medicine to the hundreds of thousands of refugees who have evacuated Kabul and other places.
I bet you will continue your history of EXPLOITING people whose husbands, wives and shildren you've recently killed.
Whose guy is GWB?
I can't hear you!
..Still Don't hear you!
Yes! Industry's GUY!
Check out Bush's supportters, republican supporters. And that huge check they get from Arms industry.
Why for?
For War!
Kill'em'All I say!
GWB is Puppet. Puppet of industry of killing automatization.
This is really sad. Who is benefitting from this? Those who lost their loves? Or those who just sold 5'000 $2M missiles to be stuck into camels arse?
Put your thinking cap on, please.
(oh yeah an please mod me down because you want everything USA to be so pretty!)
>If we airdrop to the areas where people are most in need, and leave a little notes explaining it was from us and we bear no enmity to the people of Afghanistan, you undermine the Taliban's rhetoric that the US is waging a "crusade" of anti-muslim extermination against the people of Afghanistan.
Some speculation: How many people do you think there is in Afghanistan who can Read? I'd say about 5%. 0.1% women.
How many of Afghani people even know what does US flag look like?
(How many kentucky rednecks know what Afghanistans flag looks like? Do YOU?).
> I certainly don't remember thousands of Vietnamese women being raped by U.S. troups. Got a source, or are you just doing the usual Slashdot job of making shit up?
http://www.vietnamese-american.org/dieu.html
> It is just a really good argument for the complete seperation of the state from religion.
But see, you can't do this.
State is people and people are state, what people believe in, state "states".
This whole "culture" thing is only an agreement between people.
There are many religions (and many people are atheists). But I don't know of many ("mainstream") religions that have killing policy.
I really think it's unbelievable that US uses air strikes AGAIN. Didn't you learn anything from your history?
Air strikes will ALWAYS kill INNOCENT PEOPLE.
The only way to kill even nearly "guilty" people is to bring them in front of court.
Praying for those you're BOMBING is a little bit LAME, because your OWN GOD FORBIDS KILLING. I say this again for those who DIDN'T get it from first round: Your own god forbids killing!
Why Are you Killing?
Where's that stuff about turning another cheek?
I consider Bush MURDERER that should be brought in ront of court. Preferably in Texas, so he could be DEATH-SENTENCED, from ALIKES.
> and isn't it sad I am reading/. instead of watching the news...
>Now, what do you think, is this chipset something I should go for? Would it work well with Woody, do think? Are the NVIDIA guys Good?
> I was looking for this stuff on Saturday, and I came up with the following stuff:
> CPU: AMD Thunderbird 1.2GHz Socket A 266MHz
AMD is GOOD.
> RAM: DDR SDRAM 2100 2 * 256 MB Socket A
RAM is GOOD
> Harddrive: Western Digital Caviar 7200 RPM 40 GB
Big HD is GOOD.
WD SUCK. WD fail to report their "extensions" to ATA standard, and sometimes screw your data bad. Not only in linux.
> Motherboard: Asus A7M266, AMD761-chipsett, Socket A
ASUS is GOOD.
> Sound Card: Creative Soundblaster Live! 1024
Creatise SUCK. There's still no active support for linux. At least they opened specs. Or didn't.
> Video Card: Matrox Millenium G450 32MB DDR-Ram, Bulk
Matrox is GOOD.
> CRT: Samtron 96P
Big CRT is GOOD.
> CD-ROM-drive: Creative 52x IDE
Any ATAPI CDROM does it.
If you have any money left, opt for SCSI.
Well, one Athlon can't saturate that bandwidth, two could.
What do you think, how long before nforce supports Hammer? There's twice as much width (64bit), so maybe, just maybe, even one Hammer could bring nforce down to its knees..
Anyway, I'd REALLY like to see NF with two athlons, although it's not really probable.. (It took AMD 3+ years to make 760MP and nvidia can't even make their video drivers work reliably in SMP). And please don't start mumbling about those things being like comparing apples and bananas. They DO relate.
Nvidia just doesn't seem to have processor SMP knowledge in-house. Maybe GPU-MP but not proc.
Hmm..
That makes me think. Didn't 3dfx had the "smp" of GPU's? yeas it did. And whos slave it's now? That's right, NVidia!!
>While it doesn't do dependancies like ports, the following will do what you want:
># apt-get install pentium-builder
># less/usr/share/doc/pentium-builder/README.Debian
># apt-get source whatever -b
>pentium-builder is pretty handy IMHO.
Thanks!
That was a real nice one. I shall try to recompile at least perl (you know how much perl code there is..), bash should be nex.. uh boy..
>no wasted time compiling, knows the dependencies I need, and it does everything for me.
So do I. The ONLY thing I think apt-get misses is capability to selectively recompile programs for YOUR architecture. Debian (I think) is still compiled for 386. Now if you have Athlon 20THz, you miss all the MMX, MMX+, SSE, SSE2, 3DNow!, and all ather nice things.
Probably your only thing that's compiled for your precious proc. is your kernel. How about glibc, XFree86 and all the other fon things? Now THAT'd give you some more edge...
Do you have any idea of optimizing? It's not only about using "the most appropriate" opcodes, it's ususally mostly about "unrolling loops". And that takes A LOT of memory. The usual case is that after loop unrolling a simple for becomes 30x size of tight loop.
In linux the case is totally different because program is loaded in segments, only after it tries to use some segment that isn't in memory at the moment. So most of program (the least used part) isn't even in memory at the moment.
I don't know what Windows does.
check out mozilla, 5 months ago I loaded some build and there was svg-enabled one. I'd bet it has matured by now.
http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/releases/mozi ll a0.9.3/mozilla-win32-0.9.3-MathML-SVG.zip could be the one.. (linux version somewhere there..)
Slashdot Mirror
we have this in gnome NOW named BONOBO but hey we have 200 apps for gnome now and only 10 are using BONOBO i really doubt that with GNOME 2.0 everyone will ever move to GCONF or make their app PLUGINABLE.. things look different on KDE..
..), these thing are going to spread and GNOME community will get more of bonoable apps..
;)
only thing I can add is that Bonobo has been an "experimental" technology for a while, so there hasn't been so much adoption for it in GNOME, people just wanted it to settle down, most of issues resolved.
The exact same situation was with KDE, but as KDE people started writing their embeddable applications, things got rolling and now we have KDE in it's state. (btw, good work KDE people..).
now, that GNOME is nearing maturity (that 1.0 was really a lowly 0.5
And maybe someone will write a proxy to convert KDE parts to bonobo and vice-versa...
You are about 2 years out of date. The QT licence prevents you from using the free version of QT in closed-source code, the same is true of Gnome's license.
How many open-source WINDOWS Qt Applications have you seen lately?
Cause I've seen totally 0, none, nada.
Qt license is free only for linux/bsd OSS.
IAN(License Lawyer), however.
(speaking of KDE) My bet is that their decision to use Gnome has more to do with the geographical location of its core developers than the code itself.
;P
I read this some tim ago on KDE KT Cousin, basically they say that KDE isn't that portable, and port to Sun asch is going to take a while. GNOME is plain C and has ran on Sun for a long time, so there's not so much trouble to go through.
Consider also that KDE uses C++, and Sun's own compilers isn't maybe so good at C++ and g++ sucks on Sun too...
And.. If Sun used KDE on their arch, they'd had to pay Qt $$. That's pretty hard to explain to shareholders when there's equivalent totally FREE option available.
I'm not talking about government however
To simply trust someone as being "independent" merely because they don't seem to be affiliated with one vendor or another would be naive, IMO. Tom has already been suspect after the fiasco involving NVidia 3D accelerators.
Sorry, missed that one, could you brief me on that one?
Well, I guess that proves Alan doesn't read slashdot. He is Welsh. BIG difference. Especially when it comes to things like Rugby.
Well, check this out: http://slashdot.org/~Alan%20Cox/.
I bet Homeros didn't expect his Odysseus dude to go that far..
Now here's the ultimate sequel!
It doesn't seem too practical to me. Most apps don't benefit greatly from SMP anyway. Add to that the potential heat problems caused by two cores on one chip...Why not just go with a more traditional SMP approach? At least you won't have to worry too much about heat then.
Yo! Helloou? Where are you living man? In what decade? This is year 2001 and most of "cooperative multitasking" crap is buried in hell with windows 3.1 and alikes. Even MacOS is phasing out (though that one worked out pretty nicely [because of interface built that way])
You get tremendous boost when using SMP. There's no way to describe it, it's just awesome!
Remember, you run pretty many tasks continuously, and simultaneously! There's maybe apache, mozilla, bluefish, emacs & others running all the time! For chrissakes, why do you think distros make X 'nice -10'? Most of the applications are multithreaded by now, not doing it is just insane, simply because of different overheads & application responsiviness.
Just think for a moment before posting something like that..
Mmm.. MS basically fucked up with whole Internet thing. They took their heads out of their asses AFTER they saw that netscape got it right.
They didn't even have native TCP/IP in Win3.1.
Oh Yeah, and have you read BG's "Road Ahead"? I have, and BG underestimates internet in it _badly_. That went to press circa '94-'95.
But now that they've got their wheel spinning, there's not much that can stop them.
> If the Bundestag administration is not able to print .doc documents as they were shown in someone else's Word 2K (with correct table dimenstions, bullets, idents and images), it would make people laugh hard at them.
Actually, I've never been able to print with any of MS tools with right dimensions. When I set width to 10cm, it's always either 10.1 or 9.9cm. Dunno why, tried on many different installations/printer configurations.
> So where the spec says it's a 'world' phone, it aint.
> IMO 900MHz + 1800MHz + 1900MHz = world phone.
IANARF, but 1800 is (usually) available only when 900 is. There is "localnets" that are only 1800 (innner city areas), but even in US they're not that common because of long distances involved.
Patch is here:
--- linux/drivers/parport/ieee1284_ops.c.orig Thu Oct 11 09:40:39 2001
+++ linux/drivers/parport/ieee1284_ops.c Thu Oct 11 09:40:42 2001
@@ -362,7 +362,7 @@
} else {
DPRINTK (KERN_DEBUG "%s: ECP direction: failed to reverse\n",
port->name);
- port->ieee1284.phase = IEEE1284_PH_DIR_UNKNOWN;
+ port->ieee1284.phase = IEEE1284_PH_ECP_DIR_UNKNOWN;
}
return retval;
@@ -394,7 +394,7 @@
DPRINTK (KERN_DEBUG
"%s: ECP direction: failed to switch forward\n",
port->name);
- port->ieee1284.phase = IEEE1284_PH_DIR_UNKNOWN;
+ port->ieee1284.phase = IEEE1284_PH_ECP_DIR_UNKNOWN;
}
I noticed that in 2.4.10 (+preempt -patch), in xterm sometimes when one C-Z's a process, it just stalls.. ps aux doesn't show anything, nor does xterm responce.. Weirdest thing is that it doesn't happen all the time, only sometimes.
(oh yes, xterm is certainly alive, it scrolls on demand and when I press keys they show up, it's just that bash never comes up.)
> And we are certainly engaging in terrorist activity when, after the Tabilan's air defenses are taken out that we will continue our history hundreds of millions of dollars of humanitarian aid to the Afghani people by air dropping food and medicine to the hundreds of thousands of refugees who have evacuated Kabul and other places.
I bet you will continue your history of EXPLOITING people whose husbands, wives and shildren you've recently killed.
Whose guy is GWB?
I can't hear you!
..Still Don't hear you!
Yes! Industry's GUY!
Check out Bush's supportters, republican supporters. And that huge check they get from Arms industry.
Why for?
For War!
Kill'em'All I say!
GWB is Puppet. Puppet of industry of killing automatization.
This is really sad. Who is benefitting from this? Those who lost their loves? Or those who just sold 5'000 $2M missiles to be stuck into camels arse?
Put your thinking cap on, please.
(oh yeah an please mod me down because you want everything USA to be so pretty!)
>If we airdrop to the areas where people are most in need, and leave a little notes explaining it was from us and we bear no enmity to the people of Afghanistan, you undermine the Taliban's rhetoric that the US is waging a "crusade" of anti-muslim extermination against the people of Afghanistan.
Some speculation: How many people do you think there is in Afghanistan who can Read? I'd say about 5%. 0.1% women.
How many of Afghani people even know what does US flag look like?
(How many kentucky rednecks know what Afghanistans flag looks like? Do YOU?).
> I certainly don't remember thousands of Vietnamese women being raped by U.S. troups. Got a source, or are you just doing the usual Slashdot job of making shit up? http://www.vietnamese-american.org/dieu.html
and 3'700 more: google
> It is just a really good argument for the complete seperation of the state from religion.
But see, you can't do this.
State is people and people are state, what people believe in, state "states".
This whole "culture" thing is only an agreement between people.
There are many religions (and many people are atheists). But I don't know of many ("mainstream") religions that have killing policy.
Killing is madness.
Now, this is raaly interesting, because I didn't comment on My god. Only the one americans "believe" in. Or say they believe.
Whole Vietnam thing was a Mistake. Any War is BIG mistake.
I can't think any "civilized" man going and killing a man. It just doesn't fit. It's really unbelievable that things like this happen.
As a "leading" country, and one that worships "non-killing" god, US had a Reaally good case to show what it is all about. And they blew it.
There is Always options. You're never forced to kill. And even where you're threatened by gun, your god welcomes you.
Now, I'm not speaking about my god. Only US god.
I am MY god. (because there's god in everyone of us, yadda yadda..)
> God help those we target
/. instead of watching the news...
Yes indeed.
God help those YOU target.
I really think it's unbelievable that US uses air strikes AGAIN. Didn't you learn anything from your history?
Air strikes will ALWAYS kill INNOCENT PEOPLE.
The only way to kill even nearly "guilty" people is to bring them in front of court.
Praying for those you're BOMBING is a little bit LAME, because your OWN GOD FORBIDS KILLING. I say this again for those who DIDN'T get it from first round: Your own god forbids killing!
Why Are you Killing?
Where's that stuff about turning another cheek?
I consider Bush MURDERER that should be brought in ront of court. Preferably in Texas, so he could be DEATH-SENTENCED, from ALIKES.
> and isn't it sad I am reading
And isn't it sad people are DYING in Afghanistan?
>Now, what do you think, is this chipset something I should go for? Would it work well with Woody, do think? Are the NVIDIA guys Good?
> I was looking for this stuff on Saturday, and I came up with the following stuff:
> CPU: AMD Thunderbird 1.2GHz Socket A 266MHz
AMD is GOOD.
> RAM: DDR SDRAM 2100 2 * 256 MB Socket A
RAM is GOOD
> Harddrive: Western Digital Caviar 7200 RPM 40 GB
Big HD is GOOD.
WD SUCK. WD fail to report their "extensions" to ATA standard, and sometimes screw your data bad. Not only in linux.
> Motherboard: Asus A7M266, AMD761-chipsett, Socket A
ASUS is GOOD.
> Sound Card: Creative Soundblaster Live! 1024
Creatise SUCK. There's still no active support for linux. At least they opened specs. Or didn't.
> Video Card: Matrox Millenium G450 32MB DDR-Ram, Bulk
Matrox is GOOD.
> CRT: Samtron 96P
Big CRT is GOOD.
> CD-ROM-drive: Creative 52x IDE
Any ATAPI CDROM does it.
If you have any money left, opt for SCSI.
Well, one Athlon can't saturate that bandwidth, two could.
What do you think, how long before nforce supports Hammer? There's twice as much width (64bit), so maybe, just maybe, even one Hammer could bring nforce down to its knees..
Anyway, I'd REALLY like to see NF with two athlons, although it's not really probable.. (It took AMD 3+ years to make 760MP and nvidia can't even make their video drivers work reliably in SMP). And please don't start mumbling about those things being like comparing apples and bananas. They DO relate.
Nvidia just doesn't seem to have processor SMP knowledge in-house. Maybe GPU-MP but not proc.
Hmm..
That makes me think. Didn't 3dfx had the "smp" of GPU's? yeas it did. And whos slave it's now? That's right, NVidia!!
>While it doesn't do dependancies like ports, the following will do what you want: /usr/share/doc/pentium-builder/README.Debian
># apt-get install pentium-builder
># less
># apt-get source whatever -b
>pentium-builder is pretty handy IMHO.
Thanks!
That was a real nice one. I shall try to recompile at least perl (you know how much perl code there is..), bash should be nex.. uh boy..
Thanks again!
> I have Debian.
>apt-get update
>apt-get upgrade
>no wasted time compiling, knows the dependencies I need, and it does everything for me.
So do I. The ONLY thing I think apt-get misses is capability to selectively recompile programs for YOUR architecture.
Debian (I think) is still compiled for 386. Now if you have Athlon 20THz, you miss all the MMX, MMX+, SSE, SSE2, 3DNow!, and all ather nice things.
Probably your only thing that's compiled for your precious proc. is your kernel. How about glibc, XFree86 and all the other fon things?
Now THAT'd give you some more edge...
Do you have any idea of optimizing? It's not only about using "the most appropriate" opcodes, it's ususally mostly about "unrolling loops". And that takes A LOT of memory. The usual case is that after loop unrolling a simple for becomes 30x size of tight loop.
In linux the case is totally different because program is loaded in segments, only after it tries to use some segment that isn't in memory at the moment. So most of program (the least used part) isn't even in memory at the moment.
I don't know what Windows does.
Simply because it's not 'apt' ;)
check out mozilla, 5 months ago I loaded some build and there was svg-enabled one. I'd bet it has matured by now.i ll a0.9.3/mozilla-win32-0.9.3-MathML-SVG.zip could be the one.. (linux version somewhere there..)
http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/releases/moz