Linux 2.4.13

Lawrence Teo writes: "Looks like Linux 2.4.13 is out. You can get it at the usual place (kernel.org) and the mirrors. Check out the Changelog."

Comments

ext3

[chrysalis]

Does this new kernel include the latest snapshot of ext3?

Ext3 is both distributed in the kernel and as a separate package, and I'm a bit lost : what ext3 code should we use for more reliability? Should the previous kernel be patched with the latest ext3? Does the new kernel include it? Does the latest ext3 cleanly applies to Linux 2.4.13?

I'm lost...

Re:ext3

[frankie_guasch]

ext3 is inside the -ac kernels, look inside
the people/alan directory. It must be in your
closest kernel mirror.

Re:ext3

[rendler]

Right now ext3 is not in the official kernel but it is in Alan Cox's which is also synched to the latest version, of course you can patch the official to use ext3 with patches from here. They usually lag a couple of days behind for a patch to be available for the latest kernels , but a cvs snapshot should work fine if you can't wait that long for them to release an official patch.

Re:ext3

[Anonymous Coward]

ext3 is _not_ in the -linus kernel.
It is in the -ac patches, and just got updated,
so you can use that.

The ext3 patch should not be used, and may not apply to the current kernel. Dont use the ext3
patch unless the ext3 page states it is for
your kernel version. (or use the -ac patch which have ext3)
Chances are that ext3 soon goes into the kernel
though.

Re:ext3

[chrysalis]

Funny. In fact I always used AC kernels for ages, and I even didn't notice that ext3 wasn't in Linus tree yet :)

Re:ext3

[HTMLSpinnr]

I was able to patch the latest EXT3 patch (one built against 2.4.13-pre6 - ext3-2.4-0.9.13-2413p6.gz was the filename) with only one hunk failure - and that was easily integrated manually. The kernel compiled just fine and I haven't seen any problems thus far (knock on wood).

While I enjoy using the AC kernels, it kinda bugs me that there are quite a few "reversions" within the AC tree. If there were only a simple way to pull out specific changes and patch them in.

Re:ext3

[HTMLSpinnr]

AC kernels are more or less sync'd, however I've noted that recently they revert some of the Linus changes (i.e. VM, etc) - so in a sense, using the AC tree is only getting some of the new. Is this done for compatability reasons with the extra "features" or are they just paranoid? It's almost better if you want all of the new to find the individual patches and patch the Linus tree - that way you get the new features without killing the old.

Re:ext3

[Anonymous Coward]

If it was so easy then why don't you share it with us? I cannot compile the kernel because of this ;)

Re:ext3

[HTMLSpinnr]

Apply the patch. Note the single hunk failure. Look at the saved file created by the patch program, and note that a single line is to be inserted, noted by the + sign. Note the surrounding lines of text within the failure file, and locate the same (or similar) lines of text within the original file in a text editor (such as vi). I simply inserted the one line to be patched manually in the same spot as it appeared in the failed hunk relative to the surrounding text in the newer code. I don't remember specifically the line, but it had to do with JFS.

The patch fails because between pre6 and the final 2.4.13, an additional line of code was added to the file, throwing off the patch program.

Sorry that I can't be more specific, but it really isn't that hard.

CVS

[Anonymous Coward]

Why, oh why, don't they use CVS?

I'm so sick of downloading 20MB+ packets every week.

And before you tell me to use patches, let me tell you that I've never gotten a single patch to work. I don't know if they're drunk when they create those patches, but each one of them complains about missing files when I try to apply them.

With CVS you don't have to wait for the latest release either. You can get a nightly build whenever you feel like it.

Re:CVS

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, CVS would be nice. The recent stability of the Linux Kernel clearly reflects the troubles Torvalds must be dealiing with, or would that be Cox? ;P

Re:CVS

[jrockway]

Why dontcha just download the diffs?

Re:CVS

[tao]

How the **** do you apply the patches? I've never had a single problem so far. My typical patch-procedure:

cd linux-2.4.12
bzcat ../patches/patch-2.4.13.bz2 | patch -p1
cd ..
mv linux-2.4.12 linux-2.4.13

Should take care of everything.

Re:CVS

[cymen]

Patches are simple! If you are using the linus tree see the other reply. If you are using the -ac (alan cox) tree than grab the incremental patches from bzimage.org. To apply the patch go to /usr/src/linux (instead of /usr/src like with the linux patches) and patch away...

If you had provided an example of your pains with patching you would have got a much more detailed reply from somebody. Thoughts to ponder...

Re:CVS

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to agree. CVS would save kernel.org *tons* of bandwidth.

I'd use it.

Re:CVS

[Anonymous Coward]

EVERY single patch work., you download linux-2.4.12.tar.bz2
ant patch-2.4.13.gz and apply it to the 2.4.12
kernel.
Next time you get patch-2.4.14.gz and apply that
to your patched 2.4.12 kernel.
This works. Always.

Re:CVS

[thallgren]

Or even better, use CVSup. See the CVSup official site for more info.

Regards, Tommy

Re:CVS

[Anonymous Coward]

That's a silly way of doing it. What if you fuck up your patched tree? Then you have to untar the original and patch and patch and patch. Here's what I'd do:

/usr/src# cp -av linux-2.4.1[23]
/usr/src# cd linux-2.4.13
/usr/src/linux-2.4.13# bzcat /home/mylogin/patch-2.4.13.bz2 | patch -p1

This lets me have a backup of 2.4.12 just in case.

Re:CVS

[lliinnuuxxlover]

Here is a hint to use patches

1) make sure your kernel source lies in a directory called 'linux'
EG. /usr/src/linux

2) Now goto the parent directory (eg /usr/src)

3) Now execute the following commond with the downloded patch (be sure you have write permissions in the linux subdirectory)

$ bzip2 -cd | patch -p0
(that is p zero at the end)

Remeber that patches are incremental, so you have to patch from 2.4.10 to 2.4.11, and then to 2.4.12, and not directly with a single patch to 2.4.10

I have personally patched all the kernel relases (from 2.4.1 till 2.4.12) this way, and it worked every time.

If you stil have problems, do get back to me, and I'll help you

Re:CVS

[EvilIdler]

> Why, oh why, don't they use CVS?

Actually, the diffs *are* like CVS. Get every patch that
has a higher number than the kernel you are using to
get to the latest. Note that the Alan Cox series are NOT
incremental. You only need the latest there.

Re:CVS

[Anonymous Coward]

Get every patch that
has a higher number than the kernel you are using to
get to the latest.

Better still, get Lord Linus to use CVS so that we dont have to get every patch that has a higher number than the kernel we are using to get to the latest.

Sheesh.

Re:CVS

[Rhone]

And before you tell me to use patches, let me tell you that I've never gotten a single patch to work. I don't know if they're drunk when they create those patches, but each one of them complains about missing files when I try to apply them.

Obviously you're doing something wrong; maybe you should ask for help with that sort of thing instead of just downloading the 20MB and blaming the kernel developers.

Re:CVS

[tzanger]

Here is a hint to use patches

That's an okay hint, but why not try this? I've been doing it since the early 2.2 kernels:

• Put all your patches (.gz or .bz2) in /usr/src (or wherever your linux source is)
• from /usr/src, type linux/scripts/patch-kernel
  
  ... The script will churn away, patching up to whatever latest patch you have ...
  
  
• now enter the linux/ directory and run make oldconfig
• that will run through the current .config and prompt you for any new config items
• now the standard make dep clean bzImage modules modules_install is in order.
  
  From there, I copy arch/i386/boot/bzImage /bzImage.[kernelver] and update lilo.

I find this is the cleanest and fastest way to patch a kernel. The patch-kernel script will stop if it runs into trouble and you can try to fix it. Be sure to remove any .rej and .orig files before rerunning the patch-kernel script or it will think there's still trouble.

Re:CVS

[pviceic]

Oh, altough it is true that downloading every 2 weeks a new kernel might be (is) bandwidth consumming, nevertheless why someone should upgrade it's kernel every 2 *** weeks?!?

Let's be realistic, the changes made from one version to another are very precise, read the change log first, and then decide if you are really using that really cool stuff they are upgrading!

Re:CVS

[Anonymous Coward]

It doesn't work if you alter the kernel with some other patches (obviously).

-pre patches
-ac patches
reiserfs patches
ext3 patches
rt patches
nvidia patches

All redhat kernels have patches applied, which probably explains why the pure kernel patches are failing.

Slackware ships with unmodified Linus kernels.

Re:CVS

[Glytch]

The nvidia drivers are a kernel module and an X library driver, not a kernel patch.

Slightly OT, but what would be handy for people like me who can't code worth shit are utilities like mkpatch.pl in the lm_sensors package that make a custom patch for whatever your current kernel source is.

Re:CVS

[Anonymous Coward]

that wasn't a troll you group-think fucktard moderators

Re:CVS

[SirNonya]

Hey, cool!

I always just put my patches in /usr/src/linux and do patch -p1.

make oldconfig sounds cool too.

Thanks.

Re:CVS

[mrpotato]

very, very good tips.

much easier, faster, less chance to screw up. thanks!

Re:CVS

[tao]

Well, first of all, I've as of yet never fucked up my tree (but I do start from scratch every 10-15 th kernel, just to get rid of any removed files, since patch doesn't remove empty files), and second, it only takes me a couple of minutes to download a complete kernel, untar it and apply any patches onto it... And soon (at the end of this year), when GigaSunet is finished, the download will be even faster. Yummie.

The only source I'm really careful not to mess up is the v2.0.40-sourcetree, mainly because noone else has it :-)

Re:CVS

[Tyger]

You know, patch does have a -E option to erase empty files.

Release Often?

[Vagary]

There have been quite a few kernel releases in the past week or two as well as some high-profile bugs. Is the kernel just going through a natural rough-spot or is something different going on?

Re:Release Often?

[cymen]

Doesn't everyone know? Linus is recovering from alcholism. He just started the 12 step program. This week has been really hard for Linus because Alan Cox keeps talking about "putting away a few pints at the pub" (he is English) on the linux kernal mailing list. There have been a few flame wars too between the people working on the vm subsystem. Apparently one is a tea-totler and the other a hard core drinker so Linus is leaning towards using the tea-totler's code but Alan says the hard core drinkers code is better...

I think we all need to try to support Linus and Alan without choosing sides. Just grab the latest kernel of your choice and compile away... Try not to mention free beer on the linux kernel mailing list in the next couple weeks. Think free tea or something similar.

Re:Release Often?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hi!! I'm Cindy, and I am 8 years old. Mr. Linus was baby sitting me a few weeks ago an i was using his computer an i typed something an it did stuff, and then Mr. Linus saw it he screamed and called me bad words. But that's just cuz hes drunk all the time. I made the thingy lots better, thats why theres lots progress and new stuff now!

Re:Release Often?

[Barry Wilkes]

Alan Cox keeps talking about "putting away a few pints at the pub" (he is English) on the linux kernal mailing list.

Well, I guess that proves Alan doesn't read slashdot. He is Welsh. BIG difference. Especially when it comes to things like Rugby.

Re:Release Often?

[cymen]

Well, I guess that proves Alan doesn't read slashdot. He is Welsh. BIG difference. Especially when it comes to things like Rugby.

Actually I think Alan does stop by every now and then. I didn't know he was Welsh though. I'll be sure to make a note of it.

Re:Release Often?

[meoff]

Well, I guess that proves Alan doesn't read slashdot. He is Welsh. BIG difference. Especially when it comes to things like Rugby.


Yeh, the Welsh can actually play rugby.

Re:Release Often?

[AtrN]

Ha! No teams from the northern hemisphere can play rugby.

Re:Release Often?

[psavo]

Well, I guess that proves Alan doesn't read slashdot. He is Welsh. BIG difference. Especially when it comes to things like Rugby.

Well, check this out: http://slashdot.org/~Alan%20Cox/.

Re:Release Often?

[meoff]

Ha! No teams from the northern hemisphere can play rugby.

Most NH teams can play rugby, just not for very long. They all managed to get hammered by a decent team in the last 20-30 minutes of the game.

Re:Release Often?

[grammar fascist]

Wow. I just looked at his comments and their moderations. I wish I could get an automatic "+5, Alan Cox" for everything I posted...

Re:Release Often?

[Anonymous Coward]

Given your name, it's odd that you don't seem to do any grammar flaming. Did you do any in the past? I see grammar nazi has been doing a bit lately; that is commendable, but sadly he wouldn't know good grammar if it bit him on the ass.

Re:Release Often?

[Anonymous Coward]

Welsh? D'zat mean his name's really Cwbgh or something?

son of a....

[Anonymous Coward]

I just recompiled yesterday dammit. my timing sucks.

Re:son of a....

[killminus9]

you are not alone.

Predictions

[jawad]

Predictions for comments...

"Use the mirrors!"

"Make sure you patch, don't waste bandwith!"

"Damn, there goes my uptime"

"Heh, I'm STILL running Kernel 1.2.1!"

"Does anyone NEED to use the latest kernel? What does it add?"

"Use the latest kernel! Testing is vital!"

"2.4.13? I thought Linux was at 7.2?!"

If I've forgot any, post to this thread. Hell, if you're any of the above postings, post to this thread....

Re:Predictions

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, you forgot a few.

"Hey, stop releasing new kernels so fast! I just compiled 2.4.12 yesterday."

"I downloaded it. Now what do I do?"

"When are they going to release 2.5?"

"Is there an RPM available?"

"Is it broken like kernel x.y.z?"

"Kewl."

Et cetera ad nauseum.

Re:Predictions

[CajunArson]

Here's an important one:

WTF!! The VM is STILL broken!!

And then of course you have the brand new religious flamewar over which color the fire will be when either the Rik or "Arch Angel" VM crashes your server..... my vote is for MS blue ;)

Re:Predictions

[thimo]

bla bla FreshMeat bla bla

Thimo

Re:Predictions

[Anonymous Coward]

Another one:

Damn! I had just finished upgrading to 2.4.12 five minutes ago!

:-)

Re:Predictions

[Harvey]

This HAD to happen 12 hours after I installed 2.4.12, it happens every time. Linus must hate me.

Re:Predictions

[lliinnuuxxlover]

From the changelog :
Andreas Dilger: /dev/random fixes

Expected something better than Random Fixes???

Re:Predictions

[Tachys]

Hey that might not be such a bad idea.

patch -p1 /dev/random

Re:Predictions

[Marcus Brody]

Does anyone know of a windows port of this lanux thing?

Re:Predictions

[chabotc]

C'mon, you forgot the most important ones

'Does this mean Alan Cox will maintain this series now, and will use the different VM ?!'

or

'When will 2.5.x be started?'

Re:Predictions

[Anonymous Coward]

Cygwin

not truly a port, but pretty cool nonetheless.

Re:Predictions

[pohl]

• "Why post this article if we have freshmeat?"

Re:Predictions

[Cro Magnon]

"Hey, stop releasing new kernels so fast! I just compiled 2.4.12 yesterday."

Hey, you stole my line!

Re:Predictions

[jim3e8]

"My God, they're merging Alan Cox into the kernel!"

Re:Predictions

[Sloppy]

"If MS Windows had updates this often, you Linux zealot hypocrits would flame them for being unstable."

Re:Predictions

[ch-chuck]

"If MS Windows had updates this often, you Linux zealot hypocrits would flame them for being unstable."

They do, internally. It's just that OSS developement takes place in full public view, w/o a multi-billion dollar public relations screen to mask the blood & gore.

Where Linux has 2.2.17, Windows has NT4 build 1654, SP6a or whatever it is.

Re:Predictions

[eudas]

er, i actually *did* just compile 2.4.12 yesterday... heh.

eudas

Download patches, use mirrors

[Anonymous Coward]

and waste moderation points on an Anonymous Coward this time.

That was quick...

[pjbass]

Just seemed like yesterday that 2.4.11 was out. I guess I missed 2.4.12. Kudos to the team for pounding out new code like this.

On a related note, does anyone know if any type of development on 2.5.x or (shall I say...) 3.0 is being done? Just seems that right around this time with 2.2 the 2.3 kernels were cranking up. In any event, keep 'em coming!!

Re:That was quick...

[cymen]

Linus is planning on handing 2.4 over to Alan Cox and starting on the 2.5 branch pretty soon... Maybe 2.4.14? Who knows though...

Re:That was quick...

[Anonymous Coward]

Mostly because 2.4.10 and 2.4.11 are badly broken. In Linus' own words "hardly anyone uses that sad excuse for a kernel"

ChangeLog

[Anonymous Coward]

final:
- page write-out throttling
- Pete Zaitcev: ymfpci sound driver update (make Civ:CTP happy with it)
- Alan Cox: i2o sync-up
- Andrea Arcangeli: revert broken x86 smp_call_function patch
- me: handle VM write load more gracefully. Merge parts of -aa VM

pre6:
- Stephen Rothwell: APM idle time handling fixes, docbook update, cleanup
- Jeff Garzik: network driver updates
- Greg KH: USB updates
- Al Viro: UFS update, binfmt_misc rewrite.
- Andreas Dilger: /dev/random fixes
- David Miller: network/sparc updates

pre5:
- Greg KH: usbnet fix
- Johannes Erdfelt: uhci.c bulk queueing fixes

pre4:
- Al Viro: mnt_list init
- Jeff Garzik: network driver update (license tags, tulip driver)
- David Miller: sparc, net updates
- Ben Collins: firewire update
- Gerd Knorr: btaudio/bttv update
- Tim Hockin: MD cleanups
- Greg KH, Petko Manolov: USB updates
- Leonard Zubkoff: DAC960 driver update

pre3:
- Jens Axboe: clean up duplicate unused request list
- Jeff Mahoney: reiserfs endianness finishing touches
- Hugh Dickins: some further swapoff fixes and cleanups
- prepare-for-Alan: move drivers/i2o into drivers/message/i2o
- Leonard Zubkoff: 2TB disk device fixes
- Paul Schroeder: mwave config enable
- Urban Widmark: fix via-rhine double free..
- Tom Rini: PPC fixes
- NIIBE Yutaka: SuperH update

pre2:
- Alan Cox: more merging
- Ben Fennema: UDF module license
- Jeff Mahoney: reiserfs endian safeness
- Chris Mason: reiserfs O_SYNC/fsync performance improvements
- Jean Tourrilhes: wireless extension update
- Joerg Reuter: AX.25 updates
- David Miller: 64-bit DMA interfaces

pre1:
- Trond Myklebust: deadlock checking in lockd server
- Tim Waugh: fix up parport wrong #define
- Christoph Hellwig: i2c update, ext2 cleanup
- Al Viro: fix partition handling sanity check.
- Trond Myklebust: make NFS use SLAB_NOFS, and not play games with PF_MEMALLOC
- Ben Fennema: UDF update
- Alan Cox: continued merging
- Chris Mason: get /proc buffer memory sizes right after buf-in-page-cache

Re:ChangeLog

[Spootnik]

Interesting! On the week end I will set up a stress test for the VM to see if I am able to get some failure. Just I need a little of time, since I am at SMAU for the magazine I write for (by the way, inside of the press room there is a very very pretty bar girl :) ). mmm, I should immagine some good test case...

I discovered something important for the test results I've been reporting. The mp3's that I've been listening to were not all sampled at the same rate. That means some of the comparisons are suspect.

The mp3's were sampled between 88k and 192k. I did not notice the sample rate affecting whether an mp3 skips or not. I.E. an 88k mp3 and a 192k mp3 skip about the same on a kernel/test that sputters. There probably is a difference, but it isn't obvious. So the subjective reports on sound quality are reasonable. In the future, I'll make sure comparisons that include timing are done with comparable mp3's.

Re:ChangeLog

[Anonymous Coward]

Interesting! This comment was swiped from two different Usenet articles. Spootnik is either a below-average human being or a brilliant Bot.

Whoops. Forgot an important one.

[jawad]

Whoops. Forgot an important one...

Prediction lists (and their addendums)...

Re:Whoops. Forgot an important one.

[gowen]

Prediction lists (and their addendums).

Don't forget

• Grammar flames (and their addenda)

Re:Whoops. Forgot an important one.

[__soup_dragon__]

man you should be a comediant :-D

ptrace vulnerability fixed?

[jwbrown77]

Does anyone know if it's been officially stated that this kernel has fixed the ptrace vulnerability? Hopefully 2.2.20 will be out soon too...

Re:ptrace vulnerability fixed?

[sting3r]

They have not stated it because of DMCA concerns (see my other post) but it has been fixed. Take a look at the patch around line 17253 (ptrace.c) to see what they did.

-sting3r

Re:ptrace vulnerability fixed?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't get it. They updated the header (essentially, CVS version)?

Direct link to mirrors

[chrysalis]

Please avoid slashdoting the main server. Here is list of direct links to mirrors. Version 2.4.13, full tarball : [al] - [dz] - [as] - [ad] - [ao] - [ai] - [aq] - [ag] - [ar] - [am] - [aw] - [ac] - [au] - [at] - [az] - [av] - [bs] - [bh] - [bd] - [bb] - [by] - [be] - [bz] - [bj] - [bm] - [bt] - [bo] - [ba] - [bw] - [bv] - [br] - [io] - [bn] - [bg] - [bf] - [bi] - [kh] - [cm] - [ca] - [ic] - [cv] - [ky] - [cf] - [ea] - [td]

Re:Direct link to mirrors

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, Yeah. We all know you want the 100mb/s to yourself. Karma/Bandwith wh0re!

Security fixes

[sting3r]

What they didn't mention were a few interesting security fixes from bugs in 2.4.12, probably due to the self-imposed DMCA "gag order." Since I am not in the US, I will take the liberty of posting them here:

• Changing some I2O settings now requires the CAP_NET_ADMIN privilege. Previously any user could alter these settings and possible cause a DoS (lock up the box or lock up the I2O bus).
• A race condition in the inode cache was repaired. This would allow stale inode data to be used (under the right circumstances), most likely only on SMP systems.
• Several potential vulnerabilities involving ptrace() have been closed, preventing a few kernel-based local root exploits.
• Bugs in the USB code which could have been leveraged to obtain direct hardware access have been fixed. These bugs may have resulted in local root exploits if security-critical hardware (such as hard drives) was on the USB bus.

-sting3r

Re:Security fixes

[ortholattice]

Several potential vulnerabilities involving ptrace() have been closed, preventing a few kernel-based local root exploits.

MORE ptrace vulnerabilities? I thought these were fixed in 2.4.9.

Re:Security fixes

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope you're not planning on visiting the US anytime soon.
You could be the next Skylarov.

Re:Security fixes

[jeti]

What they didn't mention were a few interesting security fixes from bugs in 2.4.12, probably due to the self-imposed DMCA "gag order."

Actually, it is more likely that Linus just didn't bother to write everything down. His changelogs are usually very brief (but then, he didn't used to write them at all a while ago!)

He does mention updates to I2O and USB subsystems (just not what they were), and the "Alan Cox: more merging" entry can contain almost anything ;-)

Re:Security fixes

[devphil]

Since I am not in the US, I will take the liberty of posting them here:

(Score +1; Ballsy)

:-)

Re:Security fixes

[Frank T. Lofaro Jr.]

Jeez, some of those security holes are downright embarrassing. Especially since this kernel is "mature" and the holes allow root compromise and DoS attacks.

I'd fix it quietly too and claim the DMCA was the reason. ;) ;)

Re:Security fixes

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope, there were more. The old one was purely a race condition; the new ones were bugs and design flaws (e.g. checking the wrong set of credentials).

Re:Security fixes

[Jantastic]

"Since I am not in the US [too], I will take the liberty of posting them here:

(Score +1; Ballsy)

:-)"

BALLSY adj BALLSIER, BALLSIEST - aggressively tough

Re:Security fixes

[Anonymous Coward]

"BALLSY adj BALLSIER, BALLSIEST - aggressively tough"

Also - courageous, bold, gutsy

Re:Security fixes

[alexburke]

What they didn't mention were a few interesting security fixes from bugs in 2.4.12, probably due to the self-imposed DMCA "gag order." Since I am not in the US, I will take the liberty of posting them here:

Wow, talk about waving the red flag in front of the bull!

You, my friend, must have balls the size of tank bearings. My hat is off to you!

Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay....

[sheol]

well...the past 2 releases had bugs... How do we know this one doesn't? I think I will hold off on installing until it's been tested without problem. The previous 2 releases( 2.4.11 and 2.4.12 ) haven't done much for my opnion of the quality control process as of late....

Re:Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay....

[tao]

Oh my! The last two releases had bugs?! Gasp!

If you expect software to be totally bugfree, expect no software more advanced than hello world, and even then, greatly delayed by rigorous QA...

Seriously though, v2.4.11 was a disaster, and Linus noticed and thus released v2.4.12 as soon as he could, which IHMO was a smart move. Because of this rushed release, a few small details wasn't 100% merged (parport springs to mind), but v2.4.12 is mostly working.

Still, if you don't participate in the in between kernel QA yourself (by using the pre-patches), don't complain. Linux is made by volunteers, who do it in their spare time. Contribute instead of complaining!

Re:Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay....

[maxpublic]

Uh, that's what you're *supposed* to do unles you want to help with the beta-testing process. You *never ever* use a kernel less than six months old in a working environment. The release is done so that all of us geeks who like trying the new kernel out can, forwarding bug reports as we find them.

Remember, in Linux all beta-testing is *public*. If you don't want to beta test, just wait six months for a kernel to stabilize.

Max

Re:Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay....

[Anonymous Coward]

I think I will hold off on installing until it's been tested without problem.

A Linus release is not like a normal commercial software release. If it compiles on Linus' box, he releases it without a formal test process.

Use a RedHat kernel, which goes through a QA and stress process and contains patches which haven't made it into the main branch (often for trival reasons such as coding style or that Linus can't read all of his mail).

Not to recommend RH specifically, just that their QA process seems to be the most robust. SuSE or Debian would probably also be good.

Re:Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay....

[Anonymous Coward]

"If you expect software to be totally bugfree, expect no software more advanced than hello world..."

This opinion is why so much software sucks. If it isn't possible for you to produce defect free software then maybe you should examine your development process, or maybe you shouldn't be writing software to begin with. There are plenty of examples of projects out there that accomplish highly nontrivial tasks which are able to remain almost defect free. A couple of examples are TeX and qmail.

Re:Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay....

[bfree]

I would have to agree that you are better off running a stock distribution kernel IF your stock distribution kernel supports what you want, but if you are going to recompile the kernel in any way you are breaking the QA experience. Once you compile any kernel yourself you could be introducing issues and the only way to be sure to be sure is to then test your own kernel before implementing it in a mission critical setting. I personally have always found that the debian kernels are very good becuase they usually spend months in unstable and testing where users run them as is AND compile there own kernels for whatever crazy hardware or software config they need. RH (and as you did, I am just choosing them as an easy example) is not an open company, and their kernels are not tested in such a wide way (debian gets a good run at multiple platforms straight away) and their users are not as "powerful" as debian users (sweeping generalisation that I would say is fair, the % of debian users running self-compiled kernels must be higher than the same % for RH). I think it would be brilliant if we could get all linux distributors (from embedded to RH to Linus) to publish information on the kernels they use and test in one place so that anyone who needs to compile their own kernel can view the experiences of the most relevant people/kernels/settings and get a good idea of the issues they might experience with different setups.

Re:Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay....

[Wild Wizard]

So my linux router running 2.4.4 with an uptime of 122 days in another 2 months will become stable.

Perhaps i will assume that english is not your first language so i will point it out to you

> just wait six months for a kernel to stabilize

It wont change on its own you know

Re:Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay....

[chefren]

*Every* release of Linux has bugs. It's just a matter of which bugs apply to you. Check the Changelog - if there are updates to the subsystems you are using, upgrade. If not, wait.

Re:Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay....

[Anonymous Coward]

A Linus release is not like a normal commercial software release. If it compiles on Linus' box, he releases it without a formal test process.


Well, that's fucking stupid of Linus.

Use a RedHat kernel, which goes through a QA and stress process

Well, that's fucking naive of you.

Re:Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay....

[leviramsey]

Not to recommend RH specifically, just that their QA process seems to be the most robust. SuSE or Debian would probably also be good.

I seem to remember that one of Debian's strong points was the fact that its kernel packages were the stock Linus source, though.

Re:Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay....

[Anonymous Coward]

Defect free? Gimme a break, qmail is junk! It's slow and has filesystem hooks in an attempt to get better performance.

Re:Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay....

[buglord]

all you need to do is copy the .config file of their kernel and load it. No big problem there.

Re:Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay....

[bfree]

yep, but if you make ANY change to the kernel you are no longer covered by their QA. The inclusion or exclusion of any part could lead to unpredicatable behaviour even in the components that were already there. They test exact kernels, any change means that while it might be more likely to be good thanks to their QA, you can no longer accept their QA as they didn;t test what you are doing (did they even compile it with the same compiler, asm tools etc.). I'm not saying that this is a bad thing or criticising or anything, I'm just saying that if you are caring about reliability you must be aware of all the variables you introduce (what sort of stress testing did they do on your motherboards chipset let alone changing software)

Re:Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay....

[Anonymous Coward]

The two laws of programming:
1. All programs have bugs.
2. All program code can be made more efficient.

Thus: All programs can be reduced to a single line that doesn't work.

Re:Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay....

[maxpublic]

Can you actually read English? I said 'use the last stable kernel which is at least six months, not one just out of development'. Try parsing my message next time.

Max

Re:Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay....

[Anonymous Coward]

Absolutely -- the original point was that if you replace your RedHat 7.2 kernel with Linus 2.4.13, you are actually removing a large number of patches which exist to resolve specific issues. You may also be fixing some issues which RedHat hasn't gotten around to yet.

RedHat 7.1 had upwards of 100 non-Linus patches.

Now, that might effect your environment, it might not, but it's tough to say....

The REAL point is (I guess) that Linux is forked all over the map, and if you want anything resembling a supported commercial release, you should go to a commercial vendor (or Debian, if that suits you).

Re:Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay....

[Anonymous Coward]

"> A Linus release is not like a normal commercial software release. If it compiles on Linus' box, he releases it without a formal test process.

Well, that's fucking stupid of Linus."

Well, that's fucking stupid of you to assume that the first quote was an accurate account of how Linus runs his kernel releases. You've got some other, independent verification that the release-after-compile statement is true? Well, share then.

Otherwise, check first or SHUT UP.

Re:Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay....

[he-sk]

I seem to remember that one of Debian's strong points was the fact that its kernel packages were the stock Linus source, though.

Debian's stock kernel have been patched. At least in slink, I remember that the Debian kernel (image and source) included patches (Big memory area, I think, and others). This makes sense, a couple of Debian packages contain patches for the upstream sources and the new deb_helper infrastructure makes this extremely easy, too.

Re:Kernel 2.4.13 is out..yay....

[Wild Wizard]

Quoting complete sentence full stop to full stop
> If you don't want to beta test, just wait six months for a kernel to stabilize.

btw a sense of humor is required

Joystick still broken

[jmd!]

Looks like Linus AGAIN didn't bother to check in the joystick fix. It's been broken since 2.4.10. Vojtech Pavlik had a fix ready before 2.4.11, but Linus is sitting on stuff, as usual. Here's Vojtech's patch, if you're having analog gamepad problems. It's probably going to wrap awful in this stupid text box, so try to piece it back together.

Oh jeeze, stupid slashdot says there's too many junk characters. You're going to have to manually make these changes, then I guess, since it won't take the diff format.

in linux/drivers/char/joystick/analog.c

change
#define GET_TIME(x) do { if (TSC_PRESENT) rdtscl(x); else outb(0, 0x43); x = inb(0x40); x |= inb(0x40) speed > 10000 ? "M" : "k", (port->loop * 1000000) / port->speed);

to all of this
port->speed > 10000 ? "M" : "k",
port->speed > 10000 ? (port->loop * 1000) / (port->speed / 1000) : (port->loop * 1000000) / port->speed); }

Re:Joystick still broken

[tao]

No, as Linus has explained time and time again on the list, he does not "sit" on stuff. If a submitted patch hasn't gone into the next two or three pre-patches, it's because he's dropped it, either due to too much e-mail (the most common reason), missing/bad description of what it does (second most common) or bad/unwanted code (not too common.)

So, most presumably, Vojtech submitted the patch, but didn't resubmit it when Linus didn't react. Or, he submitted it to Alan only. And since Linus doesn't forward patches to Linus unless explicitly asked to if the subsystem has a maintainer, the patch probably got stuck there.

Re:Joystick still broken

[jmd!]

Well, slashdot's STUPID code ate part of the patch, so screw it, keep on using 2.4.7. I can't deal with this shit.

Why don't you guys fucking think? Give people with a decent amount of karma like myself some leeway in what they're fucking posting. I'm obviously not a troll, this is an old account with positive karma. Get off your lame asses and make this a decent site, instead of all this lame shit. What the hell do you fucks do all day? Click a few user submited stories to post, then scratch your asses the other 23 hours 55 minutes?

This is your job. Try verifying a fucking story for once. Or learn proper fucking english. Or hire someone who can actually work on the BBS code who isn't a complete moron. And instead of bitching how slashdot needs more and bigger ads, why the fuck is VA paying, what, 5, 6, more? salaries for you assholes? This site could be run buy one guy part time. I realize you started it, but you've leeched off it long enough.

And while you're at it, what retard designed the slashdot UI? I can't motherfucking belive there are sites out there using slashcode and it's clones for their own site. This site has the worst UI I've ever seen. No fucking joke. It's really fucking bad. Take a step back.

Goodnight.

Re:Joystick still broken

[Anonymous Coward]

And since Linus doesn't forward patches to Linus unless explicitly asked to

Are you trying to say that Linus has got multiple personalities, like Linus "Evil" Torvalds and Linus "Nice guy" Torvalds? The Evil one won't forward patches to nice Linus unless explicitly asked to.

Re:Joystick still broken

[jmd!]

He submited it to Linus before 2.4.11, and after 2.4.12. The hell are you supposed to do, mail it to him every hour in case he just decides to rm /var/spool/mail/linus? Fuck, and I thought people were exagerating when they said how screwed up Linux's development model was. I think it's time to copy the BSDs.

Re:Joystick still broken

[Anonymous Coward]

Ya, slashdot's filters are getting to the point of pissing me off. Moderators are enough to eliminate trolls..."garbage characters", "2 minutes between posts", "1 minute to write a post"...it's just disgusting.

Re:Joystick still broken

[tao]

s/Linus d/Alan d/

But I think that was obvious to most people...

Sgi CVS

[586]

Check out the sgi linux tree at http://oss.sgi.com/projects/xfs/cvs_download.html this includes the xfs filesystem and kdb, and is updated with the latest pre-patches!!!

The Despair of NFS

[telekon]

I was excited reading the kernel changelog until I got to this line:

- Trond Myklebust: make NFS use SLAB_NOFS, and not play games with PF_MEMALLOC

I'm sure NFS won't mind using SLAB_NOFS, but it's cruel to prohibit it from playing games with PF_MEMALLOC. NFS has reached the point where playing games with PF_MEMALLOC is the sole respite from the drudgery of its mundane life. None of the other protocols will play with it since the Trivial Pursuit incident of 1998, and it's banned from EQ for excessive Britishing.

Sure, we've all been inconvenienced a little now and again when NFS is playing games with PF_MEMALLOC, but it wasn't that bad, and it brought a glimmer of joy into NFS's otherwise bleak existence. Now NFS will be forced to sit alone in its room playing X Bill all alone until it goes mad and starts initializing remote filesystems at random.

Then where will we be?

Trond Myklebust, I hope you're happy with yourself. What did NFS ever do to you? It's just cruel, and we'll all have to deal with the consequences when people start running NFS on 2.4.13. You should be ashamed.

*telekon

Re:The Despair of NFS

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you ever considered that maybe you're one of the reasons why Taco wants to score all "funny" posts at -2?

Why don't you post something worthwhile for a change?

Re:The Despair of NFS

[Anonymous Coward]

That was really fucking lame.

In the time it took you to write that drivel, you probably could have fit in half of a DMT or Salvia trip.

Try doing something worthwhil with your life - like drugs.

Re:The Despair of NFS

[Anonymous Coward]

Now that was a vain stretch at humor combined with beating a dead horse to death. Impressive.

New Linux Bug!

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a new recently discovered bug in Linux. After installing it on your PC, you can no longer play most games or be as productive. Also, your hair gets longer and you either become excessively skinny or fat, sweat more, smell like an old burrito, and repel the opposite sex. Hopefully a patch will be released soon.

Re:New Linux Bug!

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously. I installed XP Home and now I have time to actually have a life away from my computer. Now where did I put that sheet of acid?

575

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux two dot four
Unstable for Oracle
And your mom Dying

I like fast updates

[Yorrike]

The Linux Kernel. Updates rolling out faster than communist tanks during the cold war.

Mee too

[zensonic]

I want to be a slashdot editor too (looks easy):

if(new_kernel_arrived) {
version=X.Y.ZZ
if(slow_week) {
version=X.Y.ZZ-preWW
}

print "Looks like Linux X.Y.ZZ is out. You can get it at the usual place (kernel.org) and the mirrors. Check out the Changelog."

if(CmdrTaco just upgraded to ZZ-1 ||
weekday=tuesday) {
print "This is lame."
} else {
print "Grab. Test. Enjoy"
}
}

Re:Mee too

[Anonymous Coward]

There are at least three bugs in your code.

Firstly, if new_kernel_arrived but ! slow_week, version != X.Y.ZZ-preWW. Therefore, -pre releases will be treated as -final releases on busy weeks.

Secondly, your print statement reports -pre releases as if they are final releases.

Thirdly, your test (weekday=tuesday) is always true; you want (weekday == tuesday).

Re:Mee too

[Anonymous Coward]

You've made so many indentation mistakes! With java the else is supposed to be on its own line. Sorry to ebarass you like this :)

Re:Mee too

[Anonymous Coward]

Is there some kind of "bot" on slashdot giving mod points to every lame post? Yay! I guess I can expect this particular one to be "+5; Astoundingly Insightful!"

Re:Mee too

[Anonymous Coward]

right, like that was a real programming language. try pseudocode.

Re:Mee too

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice try.

The first two bugs are errors of logic, not syntax. They are bugs, whether written in pseudocode or C.

As for the third bug, pseudocode has to be internally consistent. "=" is already in use as an assignment operator (first couple of lines.) What the test requires is the comparison operator.

Alan merges again

[Anonymous Coward]

Alan Cox: more merging

And AC just keeps on merging. If he's not careful, he'll be completely assimilated to the kernel code soon!

Merging parts of VM patch?

[tiny69]

From the ChangeLog:

final:
. . .
- me: handle VM write load more gracefully. Merge parts of -aa VM

Isn't that how the latest VM mess started?

The good news is that Linus seems ready to hand 2.4.x over to Alan. From the latest Kernel Traffic Linus was quoted as saying:

. . .
He replied to himself shortly thereafter after noticing more breakage, adding, "On the other hand, the good news is that I'll open 2.5.x RSN, just because Alan is so much better at maintaining things ;)"

It seems that Linus is going to do the same thing that he did with the 2.2.x kernels, make a mess out of them (especially VM), have a few back-to-back releases, then hand the whole thing over to Alan.

Re:Merging parts of VM patch?

[snowlight]

Have some respect. He can code better than you or I or anybody here ever dreamed of. And do you know why? Because instead of wasting time on /. he is coding. I know it's hard to fathom, but not everyone wastes their time posting on trolldot.

Re:Merging parts of VM patch?

[tiny69]

I didn't say Linus was a bad coder. I'm just implying something that he admits to, he's a poor maintainer. The stable kernel series is suppose to be that, stable. It's not some place where you make radical VM changes. Linus should hand the 2.4.x kernels over to someone else so that he can do what he's best at, development.

Linus may well be one of the better coders in the world (I'm certainly no judge of that), but I don't think he has the patience to maintain anything. He's creative, he want's to go somewhere with Linux, some call him a visionary. Someone like that needs to use their creative energies, they need to develop something. The slow drudgery that maintaining (bug fixing) a project requires is not him.

Re:Merging parts of VM patch?

[snowlight]

My bad - my brain is having problems comprehending today.

Re:Merging parts of VM patch?

[Anonymous Coward]

Linus is going to...make a mess out of them...then hand the whole thing over to Alan

Yeah, I've noticed how Linus does a really bad job of writing Linux. Dang, I'll bet if he had never even gotten involved, Linux would be a lot better.

Re:Merging parts of VM patch?

[Anonymous Coward]

Big problems on such an importat thing as VM call for "radical VM changes". On other less open operating systems, these problems would have been ditched deep inside and hidden from the user base, just to make things appear better than they are. Maybe if the change that took place in 2.4.10-pre11 would have been done a couple of months before, for example in the 2.4.5 days, less people would have complained and we would be playing with 2.5.x for some time ;),

Making friends in the Australian outback

[Anonymous Coward]

hey!

you fuckin' with my truck?

no?

then what just wutt the fuck do you think yer doin' then?

eh?

me and me mate here been watchin' you since you moved in down the street.

seems to us that you ain't from 'round here. with yer fancy-schmancy car, and yer penny loafers, and yer purty wife, and yer shiny hair. well lemme tell you sumthin', mister too big fer yer britches, you fuck with my truck again, you fuckin' with razorback and when you fuckin' with razorback, you fiddin' to get a bona-fide ass-whoopin'.

yuhnderstand?

good. now go get me a goddamn grog! four X, yahear!

Re:Making friends in the Australian outback

[TBBle]

Huh?
I don't understand how this is either relevant to the Linux Kernel 2.4.13, nor how you came to the conclusion that people in the Australian Outback talk like that.

Which releases are production stable?

[S. Invicta]

I must say that I am getting a little bit leary about using the 2.4.x series in production. The fast releases don't inspire confidence. On one hand people (perhaps rightfully so) say don't use a kernel that is newer than 6 mo. old or you are a beta tester. But of course those older kernels were once bleeding new as well...how to know which to use and which to avoid? That 6 mo. old one might be the right age and yet perfectly horrible. Perhaps what is needed is a kernel stability/security chart that shows how well different kernel versions have "aged". Anyone know of such a beast?

Re:Which releases are production stable?

[snowlight]

Dumbass Karma whore. You know this is just gonna drag into a long discussion, so you try to get some karma out of it. *sigh*

Re:Which releases are production stable?

[motherhead]

you just might be my favorite troll at the moment. kudus for creativity and originality. cause if you are for real. you are so a fucktard.

Re:Which releases are production stable?

[Builder]

FreeBSD (http://www.freebsd.org/)

Re:Which releases are production stable?

[snowlight]

Thank you. I just hope that you're a girl. Girls are cool.

Re:Which releases are production stable?

[keepper]

I second the above post... :-D

Re:Which releases are production stable?

[1%warren]

I must say that I am getting a little bit leary about using the 2.4.x series in production.

Then use the latest in the stable tree. By definition, this is the one handed over to the stable kernel maintainer (Alan Cox). At the moment it's the 2.2.x series. When Linus decides 2.4.x is "production" ready, he'll hand it over to Alan & open 2.5.x (unless he decides to call it "Linux YQ" or something :)).

Re:Which releases are production stable?

[Anonymous Coward]

The reason 2.4 isn't terrifically stable right now is that Linus is maintaining it. Linus is more interested in hacking than stabilizing. Soon, Linus will start the 2.5 (unstable) tree, and Alan will maintain 2.4. Until then, you can use Alan's tree: 2.4-ac. It's your best bet at the moment.

Re:Which releases are production stable?

[Anthony Boyd]

The fast releases don't inspire confidence.

Linus used to release new kernels daily. In fact, it was part of the foundation for The Cathedral And The Bazaar. It's a feature, not a bug. 8^)

Re:Which releases are production stable?

[oconnorcjo]

I must say that I am getting a little bit leary about using the 2.4.x series in production. The fast releases don't inspire confidence. On one hand people (perhaps rightfully so) say don't use a kernel that is newer than 6 mo. old or you are a beta tester.

For a production enviroment, I would get a Red Hat or SUSE (or any other large distributor's) kernel and just use that. They are heavily tested and heavily used kernels.

I for one would not upgrade to 2.4 on a serious production server yet unless thier is something 2.2 is missing that you need.

Re:Which releases are production stable?

[GigsVT]

This is not the way it's "supposed" to be. It might be true, but don't present it that way. Even versioned kernels are SUPPOSED to be stable. All of them. Patchlevel kernel revisions on the even number trees are not supposed to be anything but bugfixes.

Re:Which releases are production stable?

[ajs]

If you're grabbing the kernel-o-the-week, I suggest you're always going to be "less than production quality". Vendors like Red Hat, SuSe, Mandrake, etc. spend a whole lot of time integrating new kernel releases with their operating systems. This can include bug-fixing, testing on a number of hardware platforms, retro-fitting patches from development versions that are required for certain business segments and even beta periods for certain cutting-edge features (e.g. Red Hat's long trails internally and externally of the ext3 filesystem).

You should probably think of the stable kernels as just that: stable. That doesn't mean they are ready for prime-time. It's more like a "stable branch". You expect this to be the branch from which the distributions will craft The Right Kernel for their platforms.

Should you use such a kernel, then? Yes, but only if a) you're in a non-mission-critical situation or b) you "must have" a certain bug-fix and are willing to put in the Q/A yourself.

Think of the linux kernel as released on kernel.org like Mozilla. This is like a milestone release. Netscape will come out with something based on it which has Java, Flash, some back-ported bug fixes from later nightlies, etc. The corporate user should probably wait and go with a Netscape release, but here I am submitting this comment from a nightly ;-)

Re:Which releases are production stable?

[Cro Magnon]

If I were running Linux at work, I'd use the 2.2.19 kernel, unless there was a specific reason to use 2.4. I'd be especially wary of 2.4.10 and higher. Of course, on my home PC I just installed 2.4.13-pre6(just before 2.4.13 released apparently)

Re:Which releases are production stable?

[Spoke]

Lots of good comments here, and I'll throw in my 2c and experience with them:

The entire 2.4 series is called stable. Whether or not that is actually true for you is a different story.

For every stable kernel, there is someone out there where something doesn't work quite right in it and that person will call it unstable.

If you want a highly tested kernel, don't use Linus' or Alan's kernel, instead use a kernel from a distribution such as Redhat, Debian, Suse or Mandrake. Linus' kernel is stable for Linus, Alan's kernel is stable for Alan, and each distribution's kernel is stable for them.

Linus's and Alan's kernels receive less testing than a distributions kernel, so unless their kernel's have some feature or bugfix that you can't live without, stick with a distribution's kernel.

Of course, if you just want to be l33t and say that you're running the latest kernel 2.4.45-ac32, go ahead. Just don't cry if it doesn't work on your setup and workload.

Re:Which releases are production stable?

[G27 Radio]

This is not the way it's "supposed" to be. It might be true, but don't present it that way. Even versioned kernels are SUPPOSED to be stable. All of them. Patchlevel kernel revisions on the even number trees are not supposed to be anything but bugfixes.

I think people need to realize that brand new kernels are like software 'release candidates'. In the case of Linux kernels they are made available to everyone for testing therefore they get somewhat widely tested. When [Debian|RedHat|SuSE] determine that a kernel is ready for prime-time they incorporate the kernel into their distribution and/or release it as an upgrade. These kernels should be though of as 'final realeases.'

As always, even with final releases of ANY software, there is no guarantee of 'buglessness.' <g> You really never know how software is going to react in your own environment until you actually test it.

It's really unreasonable for people to expect any kind of guarantee of stability from software that was realeased in the last 24 hours and hasn't been widely tested.

Re:Which releases are production stable?

[Spencerian]

Mac OS X 10.1.

Aw, hell, even Darwin sounds better than the holy hell that a Linux kernel update can bring. The current yelling in here makes me wonder if the yellers should just blow up their PCs and use an abacus.

But then, they would be back, complaining that they can't use their DVD or joysticks with their abacus, and want the latest abacus kernel...

/./././.

Re:Which releases are production stable?

[JoeBuck]

If Linus shipped the kernel, it's not production.
If Alan did, and it doesn't have an -ac after it, it's production.

Re:Which releases are production stable?

[Dwonis]

Does *BSD have stateful packet filtering (i.e. connection tracking)? iptables is the main thing that keeps me with Linux (and Linux 2.4).

Re:Ext2fs for Windows 2000/XP

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude thanks, I want your man babies!

But is there a free implementation anywhere?

Still ********

[Anonymous Coward]

More of this "Oh no DMCA gonna get me for fixing my _own_ code" bull eh? I am thinking that this self-imposed censorship is gonna end up hurting the linux community more than it is going to change the DMCA or any of the other thousands of stupid laws in the US and around the world.

Gotta love Cable Modems and bzip2!

[Codifex Maximus]

Downloaded the linux-2.4.13.tar.bz2 file in less than 50 seconds @ around 300kb/sec. Wow!

Re:Gotta love Cable Modems and bzip2!

[snowlight]

Lovely, not everyone is a rich motherfucker like you. Some of us have to make due with a cracked Bluelight PPP account on a Lucent WinModem. So shut the fuck up cockgobbler.

Re:Gotta love Cable Modems and bzip2!

[odaiwai]

Do you have Tourette's disease or something?

dave

Re:Gotta love Cable Modems and bzip2!

[snowlight]

I don't get it. Explain?

Re:Gotta love Cable Modems and bzip2!

[goingware]

Tourette's syndrome gives the sufferrer the uncontrollable urge to curse. The illness is not a joke, it's a serious neurological illness, and can have lasting unfortunate consequences on the sufferrer's ability to be accepted by others.

I've read a few of your responses and I must say you've got a pretty negative attitude. Is that really the impression you mean to give us?

Re:Gotta love Cable Modems and bzip2!

[Anonymous Coward]

No. I'm just really sad right now and frankly, I've stopped caring. I'm posting AC cause my username got banned. :( I wish I could go back to yesterday morning. Then I'd be happy.

-- snowlight

Re:Gotta love Cable Modems and bzip2!

[goingware]

Sometimes it helps to talk about it with someone you can trust.

Have you any friends you can call on the phone?

I've been through some pretty tough times myself. Here's a website I wrote about my experiences.

Don't give up hope.

Re:Gotta love Cable Modems and bzip2!

[JabberWokky]

Tourette's syndrome gives the sufferrer the uncontrollable urge to curse. The illness is not a joke, it's a serious neurological illness, and can have lasting unfortunate consequences on the sufferrer's ability to be accepted by others.

It's a nice sentiment, but only a small portion of people with Tourette's curse. For most people, it causes them to repeat actions several times, or to touch things near them repeatedly.

I knew a guy in college with Tourette's - he generally never told anyone because they then kept expecting him to launch a blue streak, or simply didn't believe him. He had a heck of a time using a mouse; everytime he was done, he kept grabbing it, and had to make an effort to quit and go back to the keyboard. Kinda like physical stuttering.

--
Evan

Re:Gotta love Cable Modems and bzip2!

[Anonymous Coward]

Please don't feed the troll. Let him die in peace.

Re:Gotta love Cable Modems and bzip2!

[odaiwai]

Yeah, I'll explain. You can't seem to express yourself without personal abuse and swearing. I wondered if you had some medical condition which made you subject to uncontrollable impulses but it appears you're just like that anyway.

I'm glad, though, because it looks as if, on your first postings to slashdot, you karma has been chopped down to minus a lot.

yours very sincerely,
dave.

ps. I know I'll lose karma for this, I lost it for my first comment, but someone has to inform the lusers what they're doing wrong.

Lemme guess...

[kentheman]

"2.4.13 contains a highly severe filesystem bug, please upgrade to 2.4.14"

:-)

Re:Lemme guess...

[snowlight]

HAHAHA BW HDFDF HA MNNBBFFF DFFDG *( HAHA

Wait a sec, you're that fag I saw with Rob! FAG!

Alan's branch

[BlowCat]

SlashDot seems to pay more attention to the Linus' branch, but if you really want to be on the edge, you should track the Alan's branch (i.e. the "ac" series). The branches are synchronized with each other from time to time, but if you want to fix some problem, check the code in the AC branch - it may have the fix already. That's especially true for the sound drivers.

As for stability, the Linus' releases don't seem to be formally tested anyway. Maybe Linus is more conservative in applying patches before the release, but the recent events (2.4.11 and 2.4.12) show that the kernel may not compile in a common configuration and be released notwithstanding.

Re:OT: These Fucking Trolls

[snowlight]

Not sure if you were speaking to me or the AC, but I'll tell you anyway. My record is 6 days 21 or so hours. All I remember is I passed out before I reached 7 days. Mine is a physical abnormality - I don't need sleep in the way most people do. I need sleep, but it comes more easily (i.e. just resting, naps, etc...) Even with no sleep at al I do pretty well, and it's been proven that sleep deprevation actually increases certain types of brain activity.

Re:Linux Rocks

[Billly Gates]

A little offtopic but quit correct. It turns out Bill Gates went even further and stated "..you need to look at other peoples code and improve upon it..". Hmmm Kind of sounds like un-american opensource doesn't it?

Go away, or I'll replace you with a small script!

[Anonymous Coward]

Finally a real use for the T-Shirt!

Linus interview on osnews.com

[felipeal]

Q.(The kernel) 2.4.13 just came out a few days after the 2.4.12 release, which was a broken one. Aren't you worried about the kernel reputation?

Linus:I couldn't care less.

Q.But that's the second time that happens in 2 weeks (2.4.12 was released just 2 days after 2.4.11). Are you sure there is not a problem with the 2.4 branch?

Linus:See my answer to the previous question.

Re:Linus interview on osnews.com

[snowlight]

Hah. Linus is a fucking playa.

Re:Linus interview on osnews.com

[sminra]

This is the dumbest post I've seen in - well - days.

"I could care less" means that you COULD care less than you do - meaning you DO care.

"I couldn't care less" means you do NOT care at all, and thus could not care less.

Sheesh. Idjits.

Re:Linus interview on osnews.com

[Anonymous Coward]

BZZZT. WRONG.

Linus is correct; sorry English isn't your first language, but if you think about it, you'll figure it out.

Notorious 2.4.11

[Raato]

Despite the fact that 2.4.11 is tagged "Don't Use This" it's the only kernel that works for me for Very Very important app - Return To Castle Wolfenstein :) With all other kernels tried I can't connect to multiplayer servers through 56k modem connection. It might be some configuration options that does it but with other kernels it just stays forever in state "Getting game state". Too bad i didn't install that SuSE's patch which stores the active configuration in /proc/config.gz so it could be copied as a basis for the new kernels (Yes I ran make mrproper before applying the 2.4.12 patch so I lost old .config)

Re:Notorious 2.4.11

[snowlight]

That's nice. Use a buggy kernel for a game. Real intelligent.

Re:Notorious 2.4.11

[Raato]

This particular PC is used only for gaming.. For serious stuff I use 2.2.19. Despite 2.4.11 has a known symlink related bug and I'm using SuSE I'm not affected as the situation which triggers that bug is not going to happen here.. It's more or less related to the installation of the system as the only known case which is affected is when SuSE's yast is installing new /dev nodes.
Other reason for using of this kernel is the fact that it's the first one for me which doesn't lockup completely with NVidias drivers.

Re:Notorious 2.4.11

[Anonymous Coward]

You have been trolled.

-- snowlight

What bothers me is not the frequency of releases..

[felipeal]

...but its criteria:

2.4.12 was released just 2 days after 2.4.11 to fix a bug that happens in a particular situation that happily nobody uses .

Then 2.4.12 had a bug that broke the parport module, which unhappilly affects almost everyone who compiles a kernel, and a release to fix that bug took almost 2 weeks!

IANAQAE (I am not a QA expert), but that doesn't sound good to me...

Tips for Testing and Those New to Kernels

[goingware]

Before you use the new kernel on a production machine, or if you want to help find bugs, then read my article Using Test Suites to Validate the Linux Kernel.

If you are new to installing your own kernel, or you want to get started on kernel programming, see http://www.kernelnewbies.org/ and join them on IRC in #kernelnewbies on the Open Projects Network.

Also helpful to newbies, or to convince you it's worthwhile to help with testing, is my other article Why We Should All Test the New Linux Kernel.

And finally there is the Kernel HOWTO.

If you'd like to program or debug the kernel, I recommend a couple of books:

• Kernel Projects for Linux by Gary Nutt, ISBN 0-201-61243-7 - this is a lab manual with hands-on kernel programming projects that address a variety of kernel components
• Understanding the Linux Kernel by Bovet, Cassetti, and Oram, ISBN 0596000022 - I bought a number of kernel programming books, and this seemed to be the best written of the books that covered recent kernels. It's mainly 2.2, with short addenda in each chapter for the changes that were expected at the time of writing for 2.4

Re:Tips for Testing and Those New to Kernels

[snowlight]

Kewl. Now this is what I like to see! This guy isnt being as ass, and he isn't (afaict) trying to look good. He's just an intelligent guy who knows his shit and decided to enlighten a few of you. Those that aren't too busy trying to get karma points that is.

FreeBSD?

[keepper]

Yeah, am trolling.

But I still wonder why has FreeBSD had a stable
rw support for NTFS, and the linux kernel is still
lagging...

I mean, can't they copy^H^H^H^Hmodel it after
the BSD code like they have done in some many cases? ;)

Re:FreeBSD?

[Anonymous Coward]

So, what's stopping you from submitting a patch?

Mirror

[Corby911]

To relieve a bit of stress from kernel.org, heres the gzipped tarball...

http://beresm.stu.rpi.edu/~mike/linux-2.4.13.tar.g z

Alan should update his diary...

[CoolVibe]

Yeah I know he's busy, but he really should. I really want to know about that DMCA censoring stunt he pulled in ac6. Telsa's diary has a hint:

"We also opened the parcel that had arrived, It was a great big book on European copyright law and the net or something equally impenetrable. I sighed; Alan looked delighted."

But that is just making me more curious....

Micro$oft Re:Predictions

[leuk_he]

Hey.. but linux is still way more stable than windows.

Re:Micro$oft Re:Predictions

[BasharTeg]

>Hey.. but linux is still way more stable than windows.

Yeah, I know I update my Microsoft Windows 2000 kernel every 4 days. Fucktard.

Taking bets now: 2.4.X 2.2.Y

[valentyn]

Soon X>Y, in 2.4.X and 2.2.Y. Only 6 more to go...

Endianness console fixes

[geert]

... not to mention the endianness console fixes.
With these you no longer get garbage on your screen in VGA text mode if you're using a big-endian (e.g. PPC or PA-RISC) box with a VGA adapter.

Re:Endianness console fixes

[Phork]

I never had any problems on my sparc with garbage on the console, and it Big endian.

Re:Endianness console fixes

[Phork]

Doh. it uses a frame buffer, not a standard vga text console.

My theory: marriage problems

[Moritz Moeller - Her]

I mean how can Linux not submit a simple SMALL fix for all joystikcs out ther, This SUCKS.

GRRR! I personally reported this bug three times!

Why Freebsddiary.org run on Linux ??

[Anonymous Coward]

As it says in the header. True. Check it out.
FreeBSD is a fine OS but there is no room for this immature behaviour.

Re:Why Freebsddiary.org run on Linux ??

[Anonymous Coward]

The site www.freebsddiary.org is running Apache/1.3.20 (Unix) mod_throttle/3.1.2 mod_gzip/1.3.19.1a PHP/4.0.6 mod_ssl/2.8.4 OpenSSL/0.9.6 on FreeBSD.

FreeBSD users include www.yahoo.com, The Apache Project and Sony Japan

Slashdot ate the code, here is a link

[Moritz Moeller - Her]

I agree with you that the quality of /. is decreasing steadily, when you can't even post patches! My god! Well, that is commercial stuff for you. Anyways thank you for the attempt to use this miserable forum, here is a link to the kernel list archive and the post with the patch.

http://www.uwsg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/01 09 .3/0599.html

Hello Linus? Wake up? How about some reacting on feedback?

Hello CmdrWacko? How about a less intrusive filter?

Re:Slashdot ate the code, here is a link

[jgarzik]

Anyways thank you for the attempt to use this miserable forum, here is a link to the kernel list archive and the post with the patch.

http://www.uwsg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0109 .3/0599.html

Hello Linus? Wake up? How about some reacting on feedback?

This change is present in kernel 2.4.13 (and yes I looked at your corrected link).

Jeff

Re:Slashdot ate the code, here is a link

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey guys! Why don't you see the code by yourselves?

Linus did in fact introduced the proper changes in analog module in the latest kernel (as of 2.4.13).

Regards,

Flavio.

sparc

[Anonymous Coward]

When can we expect a new kernel for 32-bit sun systems????
Most recent one was 2.3.5
After that, only 64-bit versions compiled.

I would like to use ip-tables on my sparc-server.
According to debian mailing list the code for these CPU's is not maintained any more.

bttv?

[WWWWolf]

pre4:
- Gerd Knorr: btaudio/bttv update

@whee. Sounds good.

I just wish that some day I will see a working Linux bttv driver. For some reason, I always drop WAY too many frames with every Linux video capture program I use. (MainActor has been best so far - it only drops a few frames, almost gets perfect video quality, almost keeps A&V in sync and almost saves in format that can be read to Virtualdub in Windows, or any other Win32 editing app).

I need to use Windows programs to do video captures, which technically isn't nice either because the driver really doesn't work perfectly there either - it either works perfectly or not at all, depending on the phase of the moon.

Better multimedia support is always nice. One day, I will be able to use Linux for everything. =)

Re:bttv?

[Jacek Poplawski]

>> For some reason, I always drop WAY too many frames with every Linux video capture program I use.

I think it isn't bttv problem. For a very long time there simply wasn't any good capture program for Linux, now there is. You can try NVrec or ffmpeg . It is possible to capture 320x240 25 fps movie on K6-2 333 (with NVrec). Good luck!

Re:bttv?

[WWWWolf]

Oh good, good! another capture program to try! =)

Thanks...

Re:bttv?

[Anonymous Coward]

The best combination to record video is zapping with Video4Linux2/BTTV2.
You can record mpeg1 in DVD quality in realtime and play/edit that with anything. It's even possible to create a Video CD in real-time with the vcdimager/cdrecord patch, for more info, see my Thesis work

Re:bttv?

[jsveiga]

I was using a Windows98 program to capture video (the one that came with my Hauppauge).

I forgot the thing running (and didn't set a size limit). I *think* it tried to write a file bigger than 2G and crashed the machine. I *THINK*, because it wrecked all information on the HD; I COULD NOT EVEN BOOT THE LINUX PARTITION!!!

I only use the bttv driver under Linux since then (for quite a long time; when I started, I still had to change the bttv source to make it understand PAL-M).

It works quite well (Mainactor or xawtv); I just can't use the v4l module on XFree86 4.1.0 since it does not support PAL-M (tried a CVS one that did, but grabbing was not good). I capture at 320x240 @ 30fps, MotionJPEG, very few frames dropped (Celeron "514MHz", 384MRAM). About 8GB of my children home videos saved. When hardware-compression boards get cheap, I'll capture them again at a higher res. For now, this is as far as I think my hardware can get.

That was the last thing that required Win at home for me (I still keep a dual boot, so my kids can play educational CDs that only run on Mac/Win).

You may mod this as "Redundant"; I just needed to say something defending bttv. I has been very useful to me, even before this update. Thanks Gerd!

Re:bttv?

[dinivin]

Try playing around with the command line app 'streamer' from the xawtv package. I've recorded full 30 fps for over an hour using the mjpeg support (the video is then editable with the lavtools from http://mjpeg.sourceforge.net or MainActor). The audio and video got slightly out of sync towards the end, but I bet I could knock off a few fps, solve the sync problem and still get really good quality.

Dinivin

PS. I have these nice little scripts that I can launch from a crontab, which will record any channel for however long I specify. If you'd like to take a look, let me know.

Re:bttv?

[jovlinger]

ok.
I haven't asked a stupid question all day, so now's my chance.

Are the frame drops related to the low-latency stuff? Ie, perhaps the card only has so much buffer space, and linux takes too long to read it?

I admit, it sounds weak, as memory is cheap and I would expect the card to DMA the stuff into main memory... but hey, it IS a possible explanation.

Re:bttv?

[WWWWolf]

Try playing around with the command line app 'streamer' from the xawtv package.

I have tried numerous times, and I'm unable to get more than 15 FPS or something... if I'm lucky. I may be able to get more if I use 5% MJPEG quality or something.

And that syncing thing *is* important...

Well, I need to try the alternatives mentioned in this thread too, maybe *some* of them work =)

Re:bttv?

[dinivin]

Have you tried using the mjpeg codec with streamer? It works much better, IMHO, than all the others. As for the sync issue, it was happening, for me, at 30 fps with 90% quality, which is pretty extreme. I can't access my machine at the moment, but I bet if I drop the 90% to 80% it'll go away (or drop the 30 fps to 25 fps).

Out of curiousity, what's the specs on your computer?

Dinivin

Re:bttv?

[Anonymous Coward]

One day I will be able to use the italics tag for everything hehe

Re:bttv?

[Anonymous Coward]

"I forgot the thing running (and didn't set a size limit). I *think* it tried to write a file bigger than 2G and crashed the machine. I *THINK*, because it wrecked all information on the HD; I COULD NOT EVEN BOOT THE LINUX PARTITION!!!"

?!? Unless it whacked the drive's partition table I can't see how a Win98 program managed to write data to a (from its pt of view) nonexistent partition & destroy your Linux install. More likely the MBR got trashed. Try reinstalling LILO.

Re:bttv?

[jsveiga]

Too late now; this was long ago. I've made a complete reinstallation.

Nevertheless before doing it, I tried to boot from the linux boot floppy, from a Win98 floppy, and from the RH install CD (I had the hopes to at least have the /home partition from the previous install intact). They all booted, but could not see/mount the HD partitions, so I think Win98 did wreck a lot of things :(

Joao

Wrong Link, use this one:

[Moritz Moeller - Her]

http://www.uwsg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0110 .2/0463.html

GCC 3.0.1 and RealTek driver on 2.4.13

[Anonymous Coward]

Lot's of problems compiling the RealTek ethernet driver with GCC 3.0.1 (internal compiler errors). Submitted a bug report to the GCC guys, had to downgrade to GCC 2.95.3 to get everything to work.

Has anyone else had similar problems??

Re:What bothers me is not the frequency of release

[nagora]

and a release to fix that bug took almost 2 weeks!

Actually, there was a patch out the same day, available from all good kernel mirrors.

TWW

W2K NTFS Support?

[1stflight]

Does anyone know if this kernel supports R or R/W the W2K style NTFS filesystem? Or if it's slated to be supported eventually? Figure this might come in handy now that MS is pushing XP so hard. Thanks!

Re:W2K NTFS Support?

[swifticus]

there is NTFS support in the kernel now. unfortunately it's read only.

Re:W2K NTFS Support?

[RadioheadKid]

From kernel config for NTFS read support:
NTFS is the file system of Microsoft Windows NT. Say Y if you want to get read access to files on NTFS partitions...see Documentation/filesystems/ntfs.txt....


Now for write support it's a different story, NTFS write support is marked DANGEROUS, from config help:
If you say Y here, you will (maybe) be able to write to NTFS file systems as well as read from them. The read-write support in NTFS is far from being complete and is not well tested. If you say Y here, back up your NTFS volume first, since it will probably get damaged. Also, download the Linux-NTFS project distribution from Sourceforge at and always run theincluded ntfsfix utility after writing to an NTFS partition from Linux to fix some of the damage done by the driver. You should run ntfsfix _after_ unmounting the partition in Linux but _before_ rebooting into Windows. When Windows next boots, chkdsk will be run automatically to fix the remaining damage.
Please note that write support is limited to Windows NT4 and earlier versions.


One thing you have to understand is that those people (maybe just one person mainly) working on NTFS are basically reverse engineering it, so this can be very time consuming and produce only small results for a while. I now that updates to NTFS are seen regularly in the change logs, so it is still being worked on, and according to the kernel documentation it appears that Legato Systems has sponsered Anton Altaparmakov to develop NTFS on Linux since June 2001, so that might help too.

KidA

more stable than windows

[Anonymous Coward]

True, this is only the first kernel since USia invaded afghanistan. How come every Linux kernel is stable until the next Linux kernel is released?

+1

[GdoL]

You forgot this:
"Don't use it, wait for a stable one"

2.4 is viable for production but requires thought

[FreeUser]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I must say that I am getting a little bit leary about using the 2.4.x series in production.

I can't say that I blame you (although your reason of "fast releases" not inspiring confidence is IMHO misguided) ... some of the 2.4.x kernels have not been good.

I do use 2.4 in production in several environments, but in order to assure you have a stable kernel you need to do more than just dowload the latest and greatest.

• Don't run it on a production system day 1. Wait a few days to see if there are any widespread complaints (they come in quickly if they exist), then test it for a week or two on a development/test system before putting it into a production environment.
• Use the -ac series rather than the Linus tree. I use both (some machines use xfs, which won't patch against -ac kernels and therefor requires the Linus tree, but everywhere else I stick to Alan Cox's fork), but have found Alan Cox's kernels to be more stable (and more feature rich) on the whole than the Linus tree. YMMV, and if you follow the procedure outlined above either should be adequate.
• If it aint broke, don't fix it. Don't upgrade gratuitously just to have the current revision number displayed in your "uname -a" command.
• If it is broke (ie security fixes, such as occurred in 2.4.9 and 2.4.13), then you should upgrade if possible. Of course, if you are unlucky enough to be using a Znyx 4 port (tulip) card like me, you'll be stuck running 2.4.3 until the bugs in the driver get fixed (maybe in 2.4.13?), so upgrading even for security purposes isn't always an option. This sort of cock-up is very rare, but, as in this case, it can happen with some drivers.

I too have been irritated with some of the overreaching changes in a kernel series that is supposed to be stable (2.0 and 2.2. were very solid, some 2.4 kernels can be used in critical environments, but others cannot), but have found the above mentioned precuations/practices sufficient to avoid getting burned by the unstable releases which have appeared from time to time (eg 2.4.11), and 2.4 does
have a number of features that make it very, very useful in many production situations.
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Re:ext3 info

[cyclist1200]

I don't get it...Flaimbait? Are the moderators on crack today?

UPS connected trough USB

[flok]

I wonder; will this kernel support an UPS connected trough an USB interface?

Re:TROLL? MODERATIORS ON CRACK AGAIN?

[cyclist1200]

No, that WAS a troll.

next time

[Ender Ryan]

Next time, can you please also link to the patches as well as the full tarballs?

It would be really helpful for lazy people like myself who actually use the links people post on here.

Re:next time

[Anonymous Coward]

You have all the information you need to make the post. Well, go ahead. Set the example. Let us know when you're done.

Re:next time

[Phexro]

you call that lazy? i have a cron script that uses rsync to mirror the v2.4 source from kernel.org a few times a day... so when i see a new kernel announcement, i just patch from my local mirror (where, invariably, it has already been downloaded) and recompile.

this might get +1 funny, but i assure you, it is not a joke.

Re:Predictions [OT]

[sracer9]

Shoot - might as well go for the gusto:

chmod +x /dev/random
/dev/random

Yep. That ought to do it. Hey, why is windows booting?!?

Re:What bothers me is not the frequency of release

[Anonymous Coward]

If you'd bothered to actually read the whole message, you'd see that the SuSE installer uses it.

Oh right, this is Slashdot. Silly me :)

ROTFL!!!

[sela]

This one one of the funniest posts I've read in slashdot for a long time!

You forgot one:

[then, it was nigh]

"Ooh, look, Alan Cox is merging with the kernel!"

I've been using vcr

[roystgnr]

vcr with the Indeo 5.0 codec. vcr for me drops about 1 frame in 2000 - not as good as it should be, but acceptable. And the resulting files are VirtualDub readable, which is good - I haven't found any better way to cut commercials and merge multiple AVI files in Linux.

There's a nice symbiosis there, because the Windows bttv driver generally bluescreens on me within the first minute or two of recording. I don't know what I'd do if I wasn't dual booting.

eepro100.o is STILL borked

[fialar]

kernel: eepro100: wait_for_cmd_done timeout!
last message repeated 22 times
kernel: eepro100: wait_for_cmd_done timeout!
last message repeated 3 times
kernel: NETDEV WATCHDOG: eth0: transmit timed out
kernel: eth0: Transmit timed out: status 0050 0cf0 at 59028/59056 command 000c0000.

At least Intel's drivers for the Pro/100 VM card are stable. Heh.

lm_sensors & i2c

[pointym5]

If you have lm_sensors and i2c 2.6.1, you need to do a "make clean" and a "make depend" in those source trees (after building kernel 2.4.13) to deal with an apparent change in a kernel file name. Other than that those packages work fine with the new kernel (so far ...).

It's probably wise to do that every time, but I've been able to get away with "make clean all install" until now.

kernel pre-emption patch

[DGolden]

If you're on a desktop machine, try the kernel pre-emption patch - it's nice, and will make everything feel more responsive and smooth, since in addition to the normal user-space pre-emptive multitasking, the patch allows a lot of kernel calls to be pre-empted.

Even if you don't want to use the patch, you might want to try renicing X negatively to make it feel a bit snappier.

Re:kernel pre-emption patch

[be-fan]

Does it help?

:p

[Scoria]

2.4.13 is outdated. I already have Linux 7.2!

Why not.

[mindstrm]

Well, firstly... should the kernel developers change the whole system so it's slightly more convenient for you?

Secondly... I dunno what your problem with patches is.. but I've been patching for about 9 years, and had very few problems; and those problems are usually due to some foreign patch I applied previously.

And why do you upgrade your kernel every week? That's rediculous. There is no need for it. There are plenty of stable kernels out there you can use.

What am I missing?

[mlsemon2]

Hi! I read the discussions on each kernel release, and I wonder what I'm missing. I'm using 2.4.12 and ReiserFS, but everything is stable. All of my files are intact. I can compile the kernel while listening to 160kb/s mp3 files, and they do not skip, even in KDE. My production machine has yet to swap, let alone swap to death. This is just as boring as the 2.0.36 kernel that powered my production server for a year. The same went for 2.4.5 and 2.4.9.

I somehow feel like less of a Slashdotter because I'm not having troubles. How can I get in on the action?

Re:What am I missing?

[Anonymous Coward]

god damn you

Re:Alan (Cox) should update his diary... (OT?!)

[CoolVibe]

Why is this offtopic? Alan is a _kernel developer_ who usually writes comments in his diary about _what he is doing_ to his -ac tree and what he sends to Linus. I was merely stating about my curiosity about those comments he made in his 2.4.12-ac6 changelog and in the linux-kernel mailing list.

Obviously some moderators are on crack here...

Well... that's what meta-moderation is for I guess...

Use linux/scripts/patch-kernel !

[psgalbraith]

It's easy:

Keep your patches in the same directory as the top-level linux source directory, and

$ linux/scripts/patch-kernel

It's been there forever.

Re:chrisd ??

[pigs]

it is

Why Release Often?

[einhverfr]

Is the kernel just going through a natural rough-spot or is something different going on?

Well, Linus is really good about pursuing groundgreaking new technologies and trying to add them to the kernel. He is not so good at attaining rock-solid stability...

Alan Cox is the other way, though. Now that Linus is working on the 2.5 series, we can expect:
1: Fewer bugs
2: Fewer new features.

Use a patch

[einhverfr]

Hey UNIX! Ever hear of a patch?

try this from the csh and get:
Hey: no match.
(works better with Got a light?)

Guess what:

[Anonymous Coward]

He's right. If you want a stable kernel, go with a distribution release. If you want bleeding edge, go with Linus or Alan. If all you want to do is whine and complain about it, go somewhere else.

ummm...

[Ender Ryan]

Did you not read my post? I said I was lazy, which would kind of make it unlikely that I would do that...

Re:What bothers me is not the frequency of release

[Anonymous Coward]

Except that you *always* have to upgrade the kernel becuase every fucking version has *massive* bugs and broken features! Only the latest latest latest kernel supports even year old USB devices, then there a file system wiping bug. *fuck* upgrade upgrade upgrade. There is no stable useable kernel for any machine that is less than 2 years old. It's fucking pathetic!

error compiling

[Anonymous Coward]

i get and error when compiling ide.c

is anyone else seeing this error and does anyone know what ide.c is for?

Re:error compiling

[Anonymous Coward]

It is for SCSI hard disks.

Sarcastic, in case you didn't know it.

Schweeeeee-eeeett

[green pizza]

2.4.12 last week, 2.4.13 this week! Woohoo! Time to compile another one for the workstations and servers! Gotta love Linux, wouldn't see this from Microsoft, ever!

Re:Schweeeeee-eeeett

[Anonymous Coward]

http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com

I wonder if that site works in konqueror now that it supports ActiveX. Anyone care to try?

I would but konqueror is available as part of KDE only, so I have to install 6 gigs of QT bloat just to run konqueror.

FreeBSD does not have NTFS r/w support

[Anonymous Coward]

Really?

NTFS Driver for FreeBSD This driver allows Windows NTFS partitions to be mounted by FreeBSD. Currently NTFS partitions can only be accessed in read-only mode, but plans are in the works for read/write access.

http://www.freebsd.org/projects/

Linux on the other hand, has wildly experimental read/write utilities that you can use. Unfortunately you have to:

mount the ntfs rw
write to it
unmount it
run a repair utility on it
reboot to windows nt and make it 'fix' the errors

But that seems to be more than FreeBSD can do.
Maybe you can steal some code for your project from
http://sourceforge.net/projects/linux-ntfs/

Re:Predictions (Nost)

[HobophobE]

The old prophet predicted this!
"When the leaning tower shadows the dark circle,
and there will be two and double and sixfold plus one, and the few will be glad, and the many will bitch, and the others will pay too much for crap, be unafraid, for the VM is near."

What???

[Anonymous Coward]

But Linux 7.2 was just released.

emu10k1 problem?

[BLarg!]

Since I've upgraded to 2.4.13 I've weird problems with my Soundblaster Live. It seems whatever programs use the sound seem to do so fine most of the time, but the rest of the time corrupt crap comes through. Does anyone know about an error with the driver?

Re:emu10k1 problem?

[prog-guru]

I haven't noticed corruption, but it is inaudible. It started at 2.4.11, in the -ac branch too, I'm still trying to figure it out. I am running 2.4.13 SMP now, using the SPDIF interface. My es1371 still works great.

Re:emu10k1 problem?

[prog-guru]

Ha got it, chmod 666 /dev/sound/* (I use devfs too, so I don't know what these were before).

Spelling

[Anonymous Coward]

It's SKLYAROV! How hard is this one to get right? For bonus points, try to misspell his first name too.

Re:Taking bets now: 2.4.X 2.2.Y

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah, but when will X>Z, where Z is from 2.0.Z?
That was a fucking long cycle with 2.0 and 2.1...

I noticed, when I tried to patch my sources :-)

[Moritz Moeller - Her]

Never trust a slashdot post.

But in fact the jopystick patch has been missing in the Changelog. I had used AC kernels because of this bug and what is the point of an incomplete changelog?

Next time I will check the code in the kernel first.

Are you still mad

[On Lawn]

that Linus said he couldn't care less about marketing?

Or maybe that he said he couldn't care less about rms's brave GNU/world name change tantrums?

You can read more background about the whining here.