I haven't tried out the Linux version of Opera yet... from what I have heard, the earlier "alpha" version was quite incomplete... still I would rather use it than netscape as netscape is an unadulterated piece of shit - not only doesn't it do most CSS properly, it is inconsistent in its application, is not forgiving of "broken" HTML or even "correct" HTML - in developing web sites, I have noticed that syntatically pure HTML can cause netscrape to crash - then add a "stop all sort of tag" experimentally digging to find out the "critical point", it works albeit buggy...
Once the Linux version is "stable", there will one big reason less to use Windoughz... haven't done any browsing on Linux (besides Lynx), as the preponderance of my XP with Linux has been CLI...
Opera is fantastic - it does take a little time to become familiar with the "dashboard", but I find it far superior to the other offerings because of (1) renders CSS more consistently, (2) lot more keyboard driver friendly, (3) zoom in/out of pics as well as text easily, (4) superior window management (don't have to open a new instance of the browser...), (5) more customizable - at least the display fonts/settings/colors etc...
Again, I haven't tried the new Linux version - I hope that the Opera team commits to making a "production quality" Linux version... realistically, with them charging and the others giving theirs away for free (Win versions), it makes it tough to sell the virtures but I think it is so good I will keep pimping it...
... actually, we have come full circle... it is true that in the 60s when software systems were new, the model of "architecture" and implementation was needed... it slowly crept in, and for the most part was a good thing..
Now, however, things are different - no, I am not talking about new web systems, but older systems - the architecture/implementation model works for newer systems... but the fact is the "core system" (even behind the glitzy web front end...) is the same system that has been running in 70s and 80s - companies stopped rebuilding systems as the cost to rebuild (again, speaking of large systems like financial capture, claims processing, billing systems...) was way too prohibititive - even the companies that were forced to develop new systems - the cost was excessive far over what was alotted...
So in the model of a system that is 20+ years old, the architecht/implementation paradigm is no longer feasible - it is like round peg into a square hole analogy as most of the business "rules" are deeply embedded into the code - as most of the original developers of the system are long gone... much time is spent (and a lot of that is ignored in the management by spreadsheet that occurs these days...) by "clueless" analysts who can't read code who are the "alleged" experts of the system...
The largest users of H-1B visas are bodyshops. An H-1B bodyshop is a company that specializes in providing H-1B workers to other companies. The H-1B worker is officially
remains an employee of the bodyshop, but works at a company site and takes direction from
the company's management, and acts like an employee in every way except that the worker
gets paid through the bodyshop.
Most large H-1B bodyshops are either foreign companies or companies owned by immigrants.
To quote Secretary Reich:
"First, it has become increasingly evident that the H-1B program is being utilized
by some as the basis for building businesses which are dependent on the labors of foreign workers, in some cases in unfair competition with U.S. workers and those U.S. businesses
that employ mostly domestic workers."
What is the "Bodyshop Loophole"?
The "bodyshop loophole" is one of the greatest source of abuse in the H-1B
program. The law governing H-1B visas is carefully worded so that companies who use H-1B workers supplied through a bodyshop are not subject to the law.
Lamar Smith's H-1B bill passed by the House Judiciary Committee would have closed the bodyshop loophole. This provision disappeared in the "compromise" version of the
bill that was made law.
Why use H-1B workers?
Cheap labor. The median salary for an IT worker is $54,000/year (Information Week). That is about 5 times what IT workers make in the countries where the majority of H-1B workers come from. An H-1B worker in the U.S. is invariably making more money that he would at home, even if he is paid substantially less than what an American would. For companies interested in short term cost savings, H-1B workers are attractive.
Aren't H-1B workers supposed to be paid the prevailing wage?
The first major problem with the system is that the DoL only checks the labor certification to see if the form is properly filled out. That's right. If the form is filled out correctly, the application will be approved no matter what salarly is put down.
According to the USDOL, 80% of H-1B holders earn
less than $50,000/year. In 1999, the median wage for H-1B holders in computer fields
was $47,000. (For comparison, half of all IT professionals make more than $54,000
according to "InformationWeek".)
Qualcomm
uses the H-1B program to pay less than the prevailing wage.
"Red Herring"
Editorial claims cheap labor is a valid reason for the H-1B program.
... but again, you are missing the point... it is the "indentured servant" aspect of the H-1B visa program that gives the "compelling business reason" for companies to push for this... I don't mind the importing of talented professionals, just put them on a level playing field...
If you are the best at what you do in your company then noone in their right mind is going to get rid of you.
Have you read any of the comments here? Or has your reading comprehension suffered from your diminished sleep? Programming work is being "out-tasked" to foreign workers, regardless of programmer competency or efficiency... the bottom line is that foreign H1-B Visa workers are cheaper, by a factor of 3... this "prevailing wage" business is nonsense... when the labor market is constricted, there is not a free flow of labor... what many companies are identifying as "non-core" are the technical programming tasks... so regardless of how good a coder you are, it does not matter...
Only the strong surivive in a comptative marketplace.
I believe in the free market also. But importing of H-1B visa programmers is not a "free market" - if they are to be sponsored and made citizens, then fine... but that is not the scheme that is being perpetuated...
I don't think most programmers are not keeping up to snuff with the latest and greatest tech... that isn't the issue here... the issue is the restriction of the labor market by unfair unfree means that reduce the wages of the American programmer and contribute to age discrimination and a general reluctance of firms to hire older programmers...
So your tired bromides aside... this really isn't the picture...
... most companies, at least the "big" firms I have worked for, are not interested in hiring an H1-B visa programmer... they are more interested in the cheap labor aspect... I know that there are exceptions but for the most part this is the case...
... replace older working American programmers with cheaper H1-B Visa programmers...
Yes, it is happening... the shop I work for is now evaluating proposals from several bodyshops - some offshore, some on-shore but still comprised mostly of H1-B imported foreign programmers... the employees are urged to seek "management" path careers as the trend is to farm out the coding (both support and development to "bodyshops")... and this has already occurred for many of the departments of the very large company I work for... it is getting hard to communicate in English - for a global firm that predominately does mostly U.S. business...
How is it these clowns (the US House/Senate think they are doing high-tech industry good by this action? They are pandering to the lords of industry... it sucks... I will find work - even now, my management is urging the bodyshop to retain some of the "professionals" who know the system well to enable a smooth transition and ensure the same quality support...
Make no mistake about it - this is not about a shortage of programmers - it is 100%, absolutely about cheap labor... and the management in my company makes no bones about it - as their #1 goal is to reduce costs 10% per year in providing systems support/development for the business units...
I am so angry... I have nothing against the talented professionals that wish to perform their craft... but call a spade a spade... this charade is infuriating... I wish there was something I could do - I am only one voice, but as it happens to others, they will feel the same way though most of the country probally could give a rat's ass...
And I'll sign off with some words from Phillip Greenspun in his famous book on web publishing...
My personal theory requires a little bit of history. Grizzled old
hackers tell of going into insurance companies in the 1960s. The typical
computer cost at least $500,000 and held data of great value. When
Cromwell & Jeeves Insurance needed custom software, they didn't say,
"Maybe we can save a few centimes by hiring a team of guys in
India." They hired the best programmers they could find from MIT
and didn't balk at paying $10,000 for a week of hard work. Back in those
days, $10,000 was enough to hire a manager for a whole year, a fact not
lost on managers who found it increasingly irksome.
Managers control companies, and hence policies that irk managers tend to
be curtailed. Nowadays, companies have large programming staffs earning,
in real dollars, one-third of what good programmers earned in the
1960s. When even that seems excessive, work is contracted out to code factories in India. Balance has been restored. Managers are once again
earning three to ten times what their technical staff earn. The only
problem with this arrangement is that most of today's working
programmers don't know how to program.
Companies turn over projects to their horde of cubicle-dwelling C-programming drones and then are surprised when, two years later, they
find only a tangled useless mess of bugs and a bill for $3 million. This
does not lead companies to reflect on the fact that all the smart people
in their college class went to medical, law, or business
school. Instead, they embark on a quest for tools that will make
programming simpler. Consider the case of Judy CIO who is flying off to
meet with the executives at Junkware Systems. Judy will book her airplane ticket using a reliable reservation system programmed by
highly-paid wizards in the 1960s. There is no middleware in an airline
reservation system. There is no Microsoft software. There is no code
written by C drones. Just one big IBM mainframe.
Judy changes planes in the new Denver airport. She could reflect on
the fact that the airport opened a couple of years late because the
horde of C programmers couldn't make the computerized baggage
handling system work (it was eventually scrapped). She could reflect on
the fact that the air traffic controllers up in the tower are still
using software from the 1960s because the FAA can't get their new
pile of C code to work--billions of dollars, 15 years, and acres of
cubicles stuffed with $50,000-per-year programmers wasn't good for
much besides a lot of memory allocation bugs. She could compare the high
programmer salaries of the past and their still-working software to the
low programmer salaries of the present and their comprehensive
collection of bloated bug-ridden ready-any-year-now systems. However,
these kinds of reflections aren't very productive for a
forward-looking CIO. Judy uses her time at the airport to catch
up on what passes for literature among MBAs:
The Road Ahead
and
Dollar Signs : An Astrological Guide to Personal Finance.
Steve Case (AOL) - like it or not, AOL is the vehicle by which the populace has now saturated the net, including my Mom and Dad who were it probally not for AOL, would not be online - now whether or not this is a good thing is another debate, but the fact of the matter is that if "influential" index is used, he is extremely relevant...
Stroudsup (sp?) for C++... again, this might not be a good thing, but isn't C++ the language the language of the PC (at least for the 90s - those of you posting about K&R - that was the 70s or maybe even 80s...)
Larry Wall - no I am not joking... look at the web pervasiveness of Perl, from the humble origins of shell scripting, simple file-in file-out guestbooks, Matt's WWW board all the way to/., OO perl, etc... maybe for the "ought" 00 decade, Rasmus and Guido can take his place...
Bill Gates might have a case for #1 - I know it pains me to say it... but consider where M$ was in 1990 and where they are now in 2000 (or better yet, where they were in 1995...)... they will be kings of the desktop forever (at least my lifetime) and I will be getting frustrated at my wife's inability to make Word do what she wants for eternity... for him now I can thank for the legions of "Beancounter Eds" and MBS (management by spreadsheet)...
interesting topic... i don't know how you get around flaws in any moderation "system"... my idea of the best system would be one like here at/. but instead of random modebators, that once you get enough karma or accumulated credits of whatever sort, then you can burn some of them to rate other comments - you get +1 for non-anon comment and can go up or down by -1/+1 and they lose a point and comment author also gains/loses points - a higher tier of MM can then moderate the moderators with bigger values deducted/accumulated (though at less frequency...)...
I read the article/post link but I think I am so tired - none of it made any sense to me...
BASIC is a "nice" language for beginners ...
on
KBasic
·
· Score: 1
... not talking about the Visual Basic with the point and click form setups, the old "freeform" BASIC that came after the line oriented one (QBASIC or whatever...)...
Not sure, though, if this is such a good thing... sheesh, so many scripting languages and hacks out there... great to choose from a plethora of tools but with all these "non-native" programs, C and C++ are still kings... and, that to me, is a sad thing, as an easy to use, built in GUI (for whatever - Linux/Windows/Mac...) would be cool to develop desktop applications that didn't crash (well at least my windoughz box...) might be a "nice" thing for newbie hackers to sharpen their coding claws on...
"It's really frightening. MP3.com starts a campaign to send emails, and all of a sudden, we get all these emails from kids at UAH. They just kept on coming! It's like they had some kind of denial of service thing going on, but by email! We didn't think that many people in Alabama had computers."
Haha! Is that a crack on Alabama?... I say send em email AND snail mail AND phone (though script triggered phoning might get someone in some hot water and backfire...)
... I am getting so angry... I just recently was told that I am losing my job to H-1B visa workers - the systems I work on are being "out-tasked", (not outsourced - the responsibility/accountability remains here and a few "liason/business analyst" positions remain here, while a "bodyshop" in the U.S./India is given the technical work...)...
Now, I don't want to hear about how they can't do that, blah blah blah... fact is it is being done and American programmers are let go to bring in foreign H-1B visa workers, mostly of the Indian variety... the big firms shield themselves by contracting with another "bodyshop" firm whose workers are comprised predominately of H-1B visa workers (i.e., Syntel...)... if you look around at my "shop", it already resembles New Delhi or some other Indian locale... and yes, indeed, American programmers were displaced by cheaper H-1B Visa programmers... coupled with rampant age discrimination, it sure makes it tough to get a gig, but I have faith and confidence in my skills and abilities, other colleagues have opted for management routes, different careers, or early retirement (if they could...)... bottom line though is that it is the company's call to do this... but that doesn't mean my anger doesn't boil when I see industry chiefs argue for higher H-1B visa limits, that there is a shortage of programmers, yada, yada, yada... that is a crock of shit... - the real deal is that it is all about cheap labor - and that the majority of the H-1B visa workers make for a "captive" labor market in most instances (there are many exceptions I know, but for the norm this is the truth...)...
Is this what we want? To "out-task" all of our programming jobs to foreigners - not that I am against immigration of talented professionals, but this is not what is occurring - if that were true, than companies can "step up to the plate", and sponsor someone for a green card and/or citizenship... what message does this send to our young and eager students (even older ones...), who are preparing for a career? The impact to rates and salaries will be felt...
I am sorry but when someone takes bread out of my family's mouth, it hits home in a passionate fashion...
>> If you are a GREAT software designer then you should keep designing and resist being pushed into management. If your company only makes managers rich, you're at the wrong company. Anyone who thinks that the logical reward for years of brilliant database design or creating high speed realtime computational engines should be pushing budget numbers around on a quarterly office-supplies spreadsheet and sucking up to former quarterbacks and pharmaceutical salesmen at annual "high level" corporate retreats, must be smoking something.
... this is the way that most companies operate these days, at least that is the trend ever since the the (a) advent of the spreadsheet, where some bean counter figured out that the firm spent a lot of money on software developers and could save a whole lot of dough (and get themselves a nice "bonus" in the process...) by lowering their costs in that area and (b) the introduction of white board markers and the chemical effect of tip sniffing...
In more than one company that I have done consulting/contracting work, this is the definite trend - business analysts, project managers (most who know nothing of the technical details of a system from even a high level...) are valued and have salaries/rates that now are on par with the most talented of the programmers... now, granted, most of my work has been done not at software companies, but banks, big insurance companies, utilites, manufacturing firms, etc... but I see the programmmers being increasingly looked at as "rote and repetitive" drones that are easily "out-tasked" to cheaper substitutes... and it is quite amusing to me, as a lot of the code that powers these companies is really, really old - and new fixes/enhancements/features are just kludged on top of eachother to the point that so many questions are asked by business users who don't even know the business rules of the systems tools they use for their job everyday! The rules are "embedded" within the code, and any "human" knowledge dissipated off to higher postions or new jobs, or...
I agree totally with your perspective, but the CIO of most large firms see things from a different perspective... their focus seems solely on "lowering cost" to the business operational user - without truly analyzing the real reason that costs have become so bloated (i.e., redundant systems, under-experienced contract houses building systems, extreme bureaucratic hurdles - in fact, the shop I presently consult for makes me fill out 25+ ISPF panels, dozens of panels for source version control, Lotus notes notifications, etc... most of my time is spent "crossing T's and dotting I's"... but the fix is to "throw the baby out with the bath water" - instead of looking at the processes of software development, the easy fix is to just find cheaper programmers... though in the long run many of us know that this is a recipe for diesaster for the company...
Even little things like smaller office space, less bonuses for programmers... what is funny that is for a lot of developers or whatever technology is "hot", this all might not be true... but all is cyclical (again, I don't speak for firms that their only product is "software"...)...
<rant off>
... I have been informed that my job is going to be out-"tasked" to h-1b visa workers... it was not totally unexpected as many other departments here in the company that i work for have had the same action occur...
I haven't been totally left out in the cold... yet?... I will be kept on to train the newcomers on the system that I am deemed the Subject Matter Expert... I will perform the assigned tasks with the same zeal and efficiency that I performed all of my present programming tasks - whatever is required of me - while I still draw a paycheck... even though it will be a much tougher task than resolving a S0C7 ABEND at 3a.m.
So much for a "programmer shortage" - it is all about cheap labor... even the case presented by my management makes for a "compelling" argument (at least in terms of dollars and cents, definitely not "sense"...)...
so the firm I work for is going to employ one of the forementioned "body shops" for cut-rate programmers of the h-1b visa variety (i don't need to tell you which "shop"... some of you can already venture to guess correctly...)
Consequently, if anybody is in need of an competent, skilled, and extremely experienced programmer, veteran of many "wars", here are my qualifications...
languages
cobol
easytrieve
c
fortran
rexx
clist
perl
pascal (well, this is the only one never used professionally... just in school...
basic
assembler (tandem and ibm variety...)
php3/4 - presently my favorite...
hardware/os platforms
ibm mainframe - mvs
burroughs b4800/b5900 - i know WFL
dos
windows
dec
unix/linux
Yes, I am soon to join the ranks of programmers displaced by less costly h-1b visa programmers... much to the chagrin of my (1) immediate management , (2) business partners, and most importantly (3) my immediate family... so those who want to tell me whatever drivel they want to cough up... fine... if you need a competent, experienced programmer who is eager to learn any new skill/platform/language, feel free to extend a job offer... additional skills include crafting a/. post while under the influence of several cold frothy glasses of Budweiser... otherwise, please understand my biting as someone who is angry over those who wish to take the bread out of his family's mouthe-s....
... pay for programmers, although, higher than the "average" American worker... is less than the average pay of...
doctors
lawyers
hell, plumbers make more money than programmers - yet programmers are the true "plumbers" of the age of information...
>> Even the fortune 500 richest people is flooded with programmers...
Fortune 500? They're not programming if they're on the fortune 500 - they're "managers" of IT then... if they are that's awesome but I bet were considering the 0.0055% that are above and beyond... I hate when people point to 0.0055% and then say if 1 out of 20,000 can do it, so can you... again, I'll stick by the statement that in terms of "real dollars", programmer salaries have actually been slashed...
I like this quoted blurb from P.Greespun's Database backed websites online book...After three decades of shelling out for magic programming bullets that fail, you'd think that corporate managers would wise up. Yet these
products proliferate. Hope seems to spring eternal in the breasts of MBAs...My personal theory requires a little bit of history. Grizzled old
hackers tell of going into insurance companies in the 1960s. The typical computer cost at least $500,000 and held data of great value. When
Cromwell & Jeeves Insurance needed custom software, they didn't say, "Maybe we can save a few centimes by hiring a team of guys in
India." They hired the best programmers they could find from MIT and didn't balk at paying $10,000 for a week of hard work. Back in those
days, $10,000 was enough to hire a manager for a whole year, a fact not lost on managers who found it increasingly irksome.... Managers control companies, and hence policies that irk managers tend to be curtailed. Nowadays, companies have large programming staffs earning,
in real dollars, one-third of what good programmers earned in the 1960s. When even that seems excessive, work is contracted out to code
factories in India. Balance has been restored. Managers are once again earning three to ten times what their technical staff earn. The only
problem with this arrangement is that most of today's working programmers don't know how to program.
I can attest to some senior colleagues that I have worked with that all testify that in the 70s, they made equal or greater amounts even at "face value"... let alone accounting for inflation, etc...
below-average salaries - absolutely true, in fact, in some instances with some Indian contract companies in the U.S. a husband and wife will only draw pay for 1 of the couple... also, the contract house take on these individuals is much higher - in many cases, well over 50% of bill rate... also, think for a second... if it wasn't about cheaper labor, why would firms entertain such a notion of hiring foreigners... the INS requirement you allude to is bogus also, as if company A "out-tasks" to company B and company B is comprised of woefully underpaid programmers, then company A is "shielded" by company B as far as legality with prevailing wage goes...
I am aware that there are exceptions to the rule, but most of the H-1B visa individuals I have worked with are indeed "locked in" - many times, their "sponsoring" firm will relocate them at whim to whatever assignment, without their collaboration or input, to wherever... the programmer working for one of these "body factories" is indeed "captive"...
>> In case you're not aware of the current situation, hot programmers can still freelance for well over $100/hour. The only people who really have to worry about foreign workers brought in on H1B visas (or any other way, including companies opening divisions in other countries) are the ones who aren't particularly skilled and are still extracting a premium salary. I don't care where they come from or what color their skin is, if someone can do a job better than an American for less money, they should get the job, even if it was my job
What bullshit... if foreign workers were granted full rights and citizenship and thus full negotiating power, that would be one issue (which I would not be against...)... but to artificially "flood" the market and drum up the FUD alert of "labor shortage" is bogus... the shortage is for cheap captive labor... as an older programmer, I have seen many of my friends and colleagues choose other lines of work as they were displaced by H-1B Visa Indians imported... what a flagrant violation of the law by U.S. companies... if the public ever realizes the fraud being perpetrauted, there will be real outrage...
And then we wonder why our best and brightest opt for medical school or law school... wake the fuck up... pay for programmers is a fraction of what it was 20 years ago, measured in real dollars... programmers in the 60s made 100K+ per year...
Well, there is part of the problem... what wages are being offered - especially to one of the highest "cost of living" places in the world... why would someone want to come to California to make less real money than in any large USA metropolitan area... supply and demand... the idea that an "American" job should be given to a foreigner just because you want to pay less is not cool...
... how about hiring an "American" for the job! Replacing American workers with "indentured servants" who, for the most part, have no bargaining power, thus emasculating the capitalist motto of "free markets", put a downward spiral on wages and billing rates that a talented programmer can receive...
Why are many of our best and brightest students in the U.S. opting for medical school or law school over a tech field? Well, one concern is the rate of compensation... I have nothing against the importing of talented professionals - if they are given the same "rights" as me to switch jobs that would be O.K.... but the current H1-B situation is unacceptable...
As for the notion of a "shortage of programmers", I urge everyone to read Debunking the myth of a desperate labor shortage - and I can witness, first hand, the disposal of American programmers - many veteran programmers I have worked with have recently opted for (a) early retirement, (b) accepting a job at lower rate of pay or (c) choosing a different career line... as they have been "replaced" for those of the H1-B visa variety... Sure, if you are talented, and confident of your abilities, you will always find work - the issue is at what price - when the labor market is artificially hampered by a not so free labor supply...
Perform this simple five-minute experiment:
Just call any firm which hires programmers-a large firm, a small one, new, old, any location-and talk to the HR Department. Ask them if it is true that they reject the vast majority of their programming
applicants without even an interview. After they confirm this, ask them why they do this, and they will say that the vast majority of the
applicants don't have some new software skill set the employer wants, even though the applicants have years of programming experience
Even the highly pro-business Wall Street Journal, in an article
(January 8, 1998) which had claimed that H-1Bs do not adversely affect
job opportunities for American programmers, stated that American firms
recruit abroad because ``recruiting foreign talent is cheaper than
hiring Americans,'' quoting an American recruiter of foreign programmers
as saying that he pays them $20,000 to $25,000 less than Americans
with the same skills.
Since people who cannot find programming work leave the field,
unemployment statistics for programmers are meaningless. Twenty years
after graduation from college, only 19% of computer science majors
are still employed as programmers.
There's still one record he won't publicize: the name of the victim. ``I respect privacy enormously,'' he said.
Fein said he brings passion to his free-speech advocacy because of his experience living under South Africa's hated apartheid regime.
``You could be imprisoned for quoting Nelson Mandela,'' he said. ``That's insane.''
He said Americans don't appreciate the freedoms bestowed under the First Amendment. He sees any threat as ``serious and not to be taken for granted.''...
... yes, I'm gonna "pimp" the Opera browser again...
Why do I prefer Opera over MSIE, even though I had to shell out 18 schmolies (student price) for a copy?
For someone who finds keyboard controls (old time hacker who is used to command line interfaces...), OPERA is much more suited to me - using [1], [2] to swap windows, [a], [q] to move from hyperlink to hyperlink, [0], [9] to zoom in and out, [shift][enter] to open new window it "drives" much easier - granted, it takes some time to get comfy with the dashboard but it has speeded up my surfing 10 fold - not having to open a new instance of the browser (like MSIE) every time I want a new window is the way to go...
I could give a rat's ass about java script though Opera supports most flavors of javascript (or the standard ecma-script just fine) there is an occasional site that employs a MS-centric navigational trick but even NS has troubles with that - only other glitch is on some sites where they have sloppy code on the select box change on selected item and include no GO button...
java support provided, but again I stay away from java and javascript sites... even between various versions of MSIE, the results arn't consistent...
Opera provides the most support for the CSS models - even according to the W3C folks... Netscape browsers give developers trying to use CSS fits not only with its partial support, but more tragically, its inconsistent results that cause GPF crashes or render pages totally unreadable...
Opera is indeed customizable, and allows the user to control much more options than available on the other browsers... all new programs look "hokey" at first, until you give it a whirl...
Although, it's not the biggest feature bonus, I love that when I zoom in/out, that images also zoom in and out...
Easy ability to turn off images, or substitute my own CSS or settings if I visit a site that seems to be ignorant of basic design concepts...
I am willing to pay to use a product that competes with M$, especially one that I feel is a superior program...
Slashdot Mirror
I haven't tried out the Linux version of Opera yet ... from what I have heard, the earlier "alpha" version was quite incomplete ... still I would rather use it than netscape as netscape is an unadulterated piece of shit - not only doesn't it do most CSS properly, it is inconsistent in its application, is not forgiving of "broken" HTML or even "correct" HTML - in developing web sites, I have noticed that syntatically pure HTML can cause netscrape to crash - then add a "stop all sort of tag" experimentally digging to find out the "critical point", it works albeit buggy ...
Once the Linux version is "stable", there will one big reason less to use Windoughz ... haven't done any browsing on Linux (besides Lynx), as the preponderance of my XP with Linux has been CLI ...
Opera is fantastic - it does take a little time to become familiar with the "dashboard", but I find it far superior to the other offerings because of (1) renders CSS more consistently, (2) lot more keyboard driver friendly, (3) zoom in/out of pics as well as text easily, (4) superior window management (don't have to open a new instance of the browser ...), (5) more customizable - at least the display fonts/settings/colors etc ...
Again, I haven't tried the new Linux version - I hope that the Opera team commits to making a "production quality" Linux version ... realistically, with them charging and the others giving theirs away for free (Win versions), it makes it tough to sell the virtures but I think it is so good I will keep pimping it ...
Now, however, things are different - no, I am not talking about new web systems, but older systems - the architecture/implementation model works for newer systems ... but the fact is the "core system" (even behind the glitzy web front end ...) is the same system that has been running in 70s and 80s - companies stopped rebuilding systems as the cost to rebuild (again, speaking of large systems like financial capture, claims processing, billing systems ...) was way too prohibititive - even the companies that were forced to develop new systems - the cost was excessive far over what was alotted ...
So in the model of a system that is 20+ years old, the architecht/implementation paradigm is no longer feasible - it is like round peg into a square hole analogy as most of the business "rules" are deeply embedded into the code - as most of the original developers of the system are long gone ... much time is spent (and a lot of that is ignored in the management by spreadsheet that occurs these days ...) by "clueless" analysts who can't read code who are the "alleged" experts of the system ...
What is an H-1B bodyshop?
The largest users of H-1B visas are bodyshops. An H-1B bodyshop is a company that specializes in providing H-1B workers to other companies. The H-1B worker is officially remains an employee of the bodyshop, but works at a company site and takes direction from the company's management, and acts like an employee in every way except that the worker gets paid through the bodyshop.
Most large H-1B bodyshops are either foreign companies or companies owned by immigrants. To quote Secretary Reich:
"First, it has become increasingly evident that the H-1B program is being utilized by some as the basis for building businesses which are dependent on the labors of foreign workers, in some cases in unfair competition with U.S. workers and those U.S. businesses that employ mostly domestic workers."
What is the "Bodyshop Loophole"?
The "bodyshop loophole" is one of the greatest source of abuse in the H-1B program. The law governing H-1B visas is carefully worded so that companies who use H-1B workers supplied through a bodyshop are not subject to the law.
Lamar Smith's H-1B bill passed by the House Judiciary Committee would have closed the bodyshop loophole. This provision disappeared in the "compromise" version of the bill that was made law.
Why use H-1B workers?
Cheap labor. The median salary for an IT worker is $54,000/year (Information Week). That is about 5 times what IT workers make in the countries where the majority of H-1B workers come from. An H-1B worker in the U.S. is invariably making more money that he would at home, even if he is paid substantially less than what an American would. For companies interested in short term cost savings, H-1B workers are attractive.
Aren't H-1B workers supposed to be paid the prevailing wage?
The first major problem with the system is that the DoL only checks the labor certification to see if the form is properly filled out. That's right. If the form is filled out correctly, the application will be approved no matter what salarly is put down.
According to the USDOL, 80% of H-1B holders earn less than $50,000/year. In 1999, the median wage for H-1B holders in computer fields was $47,000. (For comparison, half of all IT professionals make more than $54,000 according to "InformationWeek".)
Qualcomm uses the H-1B program to pay less than the prevailing wage.
"Red Herring" Editorial claims cheap labor is a valid reason for the H-1B program.
Have you read any of the comments here? Or has your reading comprehension suffered from your diminished sleep? Programming work is being "out-tasked" to foreign workers, regardless of programmer competency or efficiency ... the bottom line is that foreign H1-B Visa workers are cheaper, by a factor of 3 ... this "prevailing wage" business is nonsense ... when the labor market is constricted, there is not a free flow of labor ... what many companies are identifying as "non-core" are the technical programming tasks ... so regardless of how good a coder you are, it does not matter ...
I believe in the free market also. But importing of H-1B visa programmers is not a "free market" - if they are to be sponsored and made citizens, then fine ... but that is not the scheme that is being perpetuated ...
I don't think most programmers are not keeping up to snuff with the latest and greatest tech ... that isn't the issue here ... the issue is the restriction of the labor market by unfair unfree means that reduce the wages of the American programmer and contribute to age discrimination and a general reluctance of firms to hire older programmers ...
So your tired bromides aside ... this really isn't the picture ...
... most companies, at least the "big" firms I have worked for, are not interested in hiring an H1-B visa programmer ... they are more interested in the cheap labor aspect ... I know that there are exceptions but for the most part this is the case ...
... replace older working American programmers with cheaper H1-B Visa programmers ...
Yes, it is happening ... the shop I work for is now evaluating proposals from several bodyshops - some offshore, some on-shore but still comprised mostly of H1-B imported foreign programmers ... the employees are urged to seek "management" path careers as the trend is to farm out the coding (both support and development to "bodyshops") ... and this has already occurred for many of the departments of the very large company I work for ... it is getting hard to communicate in English - for a global firm that predominately does mostly U.S. business ...
How is it these clowns (the US House/Senate think they are doing high-tech industry good by this action? They are pandering to the lords of industry ... it sucks ... I will find work - even now, my management is urging the bodyshop to retain some of the "professionals" who know the system well to enable a smooth transition and ensure the same quality support ...
Make no mistake about it - this is not about a shortage of programmers - it is 100%, absolutely about cheap labor ... and the management in my company makes no bones about it - as their #1 goal is to reduce costs 10% per year in providing systems support/development for the business units ...
I am so angry ... I have nothing against the talented professionals that wish to perform their craft ... but call a spade a spade ... this charade is infuriating ... I wish there was something I could do - I am only one voice, but as it happens to others, they will feel the same way though most of the country probally could give a rat's ass ...
These people (US House/Senate, lords of industry, etc ...) are taking the bread out of my children's mouth ... I urge all to read Debunking the Myth of a Desperate Labor Shortage
And I'll sign off with some words from Phillip Greenspun in his famous book on web publishing ...
Steve Case (AOL) - like it or not, AOL is the vehicle by which the populace has now saturated the net, including my Mom and Dad who were it probally not for AOL, would not be online - now whether or not this is a good thing is another debate, but the fact of the matter is that if "influential" index is used, he is extremely relevant ...
Stroudsup (sp?) for C++ ... again, this might not be a good thing, but isn't C++ the language the language of the PC (at least for the 90s - those of you posting about K&R - that was the 70s or maybe even 80s ...)
Larry Wall - no I am not joking ... look at the web pervasiveness of Perl, from the humble origins of shell scripting, simple file-in file-out guestbooks, Matt's WWW board all the way to /., OO perl, etc ... maybe for the "ought" 00 decade, Rasmus and Guido can take his place ...
Bill Gates might have a case for #1 - I know it pains me to say it ... but consider where M$ was in 1990 and where they are now in 2000 (or better yet, where they were in 1995 ...) ... they will be kings of the desktop forever (at least my lifetime) and I will be getting frustrated at my wife's inability to make Word do what she wants for eternity ... for him now I can thank for the legions of "Beancounter Eds" and MBS (management by spreadsheet) ...
How can Tim Berners Lee not be on the list?
interesting topic ... i don't know how you get around flaws in any moderation "system" ... my idea of the best system would be one like here at /. but instead of random modebators, that once you get enough karma or accumulated credits of whatever sort, then you can burn some of them to rate other comments - you get +1 for non-anon comment and can go up or down by -1/+1 and they lose a point and comment author also gains/loses points - a higher tier of MM can then moderate the moderators with bigger values deducted/accumulated (though at less frequency ...) ...
I read the article/post link but I think I am so tired - none of it made any sense to me ...
... not talking about the Visual Basic with the point and click form setups, the old "freeform" BASIC that came after the line oriented one (QBASIC or whatever ...) ...
Not sure, though, if this is such a good thing ... sheesh, so many scripting languages and hacks out there ... great to choose from a plethora of tools but with all these "non-native" programs, C and C++ are still kings ... and, that to me, is a sad thing, as an easy to use, built in GUI (for whatever - Linux/Windows/Mac ...) would be cool to develop desktop applications that didn't crash (well at least my windoughz box ...) might be a "nice" thing for newbie hackers to sharpen their coding claws on ...
<rant>
... I am getting so angry ... I just recently was told that I am losing my job to H-1B visa workers - the systems I work on are being "out-tasked", (not outsourced - the responsibility/accountability remains here and a few "liason/business analyst" positions remain here, while a "bodyshop" in the U.S./India is given the technical work ...) ...
Now, I don't want to hear about how they can't do that, blah blah blah ... fact is it is being done and American programmers are let go to bring in foreign H-1B visa workers, mostly of the Indian variety ... the big firms shield themselves by contracting with another "bodyshop" firm whose workers are comprised predominately of H-1B visa workers (i.e., Syntel ...) ... if you look around at my "shop", it already resembles New Delhi or some other Indian locale ... and yes, indeed, American programmers were displaced by cheaper H-1B Visa programmers ... coupled with rampant age discrimination, it sure makes it tough to get a gig, but I have faith and confidence in my skills and abilities, other colleagues have opted for management routes, different careers, or early retirement (if they could ...) ... bottom line though is that it is the company's call to do this ... but that doesn't mean my anger doesn't boil when I see industry chiefs argue for higher H-1B visa limits, that there is a shortage of programmers, yada, yada, yada ... that is a crock of shit ... - the real deal is that it is all about cheap labor - and that the majority of the H-1B visa workers make for a "captive" labor market in most instances (there are many exceptions I know, but for the norm this is the truth ...) ...
Is this what we want? To "out-task" all of our programming jobs to foreigners - not that I am against immigration of talented professionals, but this is not what is occurring - if that were true, than companies can "step up to the plate", and sponsor someone for a green card and/or citizenship ... what message does this send to our young and eager students (even older ones ...), who are preparing for a career? The impact to rates and salaries will be felt ...
I am sorry but when someone takes bread out of my family's mouth, it hits home in a passionate fashion ...
</rant>
In more than one company that I have done consulting/contracting work, this is the definite trend - business analysts, project managers (most who know nothing of the technical details of a system from even a high level ...) are valued and have salaries/rates that now are on par with the most talented of the programmers ... now, granted, most of my work has been done not at software companies, but banks, big insurance companies, utilites, manufacturing firms, etc ... but I see the programmmers being increasingly looked at as "rote and repetitive" drones that are easily "out-tasked" to cheaper substitutes ... and it is quite amusing to me, as a lot of the code that powers these companies is really, really old - and new fixes/enhancements/features are just kludged on top of eachother to the point that so many questions are asked by business users who don't even know the business rules of the systems tools they use for their job everyday! The rules are "embedded" within the code, and any "human" knowledge dissipated off to higher postions or new jobs, or ...
I agree totally with your perspective, but the CIO of most large firms see things from a different perspective ... their focus seems solely on "lowering cost" to the business operational user - without truly analyzing the real reason that costs have become so bloated (i.e., redundant systems, under-experienced contract houses building systems, extreme bureaucratic hurdles - in fact, the shop I presently consult for makes me fill out 25+ ISPF panels, dozens of panels for source version control, Lotus notes notifications, etc ... most of my time is spent "crossing T's and dotting I's" ... but the fix is to "throw the baby out with the bath water" - instead of looking at the processes of software development, the easy fix is to just find cheaper programmers ... though in the long run many of us know that this is a recipe for diesaster for the company ...
Even little things like smaller office space, less bonuses for programmers ... what is funny that is for a lot of developers or whatever technology is "hot", this all might not be true ... but all is cyclical (again, I don't speak for firms that their only product is "software" ...) ...
<rant off>
... I have been informed that my job is going to be out-"tasked" to h-1b visa workers ... it was not totally unexpected as many other departments here in the company that i work for have had the same action occur ...
I haven't been totally left out in the cold ... yet? ... I will be kept on to train the newcomers on the system that I am deemed the Subject Matter Expert ... I will perform the assigned tasks with the same zeal and efficiency that I performed all of my present programming tasks - whatever is required of me - while I still draw a paycheck ... even though it will be a much tougher task than resolving a S0C7 ABEND at 3a.m.
So much for a "programmer shortage" - it is all about cheap labor ... even the case presented by my management makes for a "compelling" argument (at least in terms of dollars and cents, definitely not "sense" ...) ...
so the firm I work for is going to employ one of the forementioned "body shops" for cut-rate programmers of the h-1b visa variety (i don't need to tell you which "shop" ... some of you can already venture to guess correctly ...)
Consequently, if anybody is in need of an competent, skilled, and extremely experienced programmer, veteran of many "wars", here are my qualifications ...
Yes, I am soon to join the ranks of programmers displaced by less costly h-1b visa programmers ... much to the chagrin of my (1) immediate management , (2) business partners, and most importantly (3) my immediate family ... so those who want to tell me whatever drivel they want to cough up ... fine ... if you need a competent, experienced programmer who is eager to learn any new skill/platform/language, feel free to extend a job offer ... additional skills include crafting a /. post while under the influence of several cold frothy glasses of Budweiser ... otherwise, please understand my biting as someone who is angry over those who wish to take the bread out of his family's mouthe-s ....
... pay for programmers, although, higher than the "average" American worker ... is less than the average pay of ...
>> Even the fortune 500 richest people is flooded with programmers ...
Fortune 500? They're not programming if they're on the fortune 500 - they're "managers" of IT then ... if they are that's awesome but I bet were considering the 0.0055% that are above and beyond ... I hate when people point to 0.0055% and then say if 1 out of 20,000 can do it, so can you ... again, I'll stick by the statement that in terms of "real dollars", programmer salaries have actually been slashed ...
I like this quoted blurb from P.Greespun's Database backed websites online book ... After three decades of shelling out for magic programming bullets that fail, you'd think that corporate managers would wise up. Yet these
products proliferate. Hope seems to spring eternal in the breasts of MBAs ...My personal theory requires a little bit of history. Grizzled old
hackers tell of going into insurance companies in the 1960s. The typical computer cost at least $500,000 and held data of great value. When
Cromwell & Jeeves Insurance needed custom software, they didn't say, "Maybe we can save a few centimes by hiring a team of guys in
India." They hired the best programmers they could find from MIT and didn't balk at paying $10,000 for a week of hard work. Back in those
days, $10,000 was enough to hire a manager for a whole year, a fact not lost on managers who found it increasingly irksome. ... Managers control companies, and hence policies that irk managers tend to be curtailed. Nowadays, companies have large programming staffs earning,
in real dollars, one-third of what good programmers earned in the 1960s. When even that seems excessive, work is contracted out to code
factories in India. Balance has been restored. Managers are once again earning three to ten times what their technical staff earn. The only
problem with this arrangement is that most of today's working programmers don't know how to program.
I can attest to some senior colleagues that I have worked with that all testify that in the 70s, they made equal or greater amounts even at "face value" ... let alone accounting for inflation, etc ...
... from personal XP, I can tell you ...
It seems to me that you are the "troll" here ...
>> In case you're not aware of the current situation, hot programmers can still freelance for well over $100/hour. The only people who really have to worry about foreign workers brought in on H1B visas (or any other way, including companies opening divisions in other countries) are the ones who aren't particularly skilled and are still extracting a premium salary. I don't care where they come from or what color their skin is, if someone can do a job better than an American for less money, they should get the job, even if it was my job
What bullshit ... if foreign workers were granted full rights and citizenship and thus full negotiating power, that would be one issue (which I would not be against ...) ... but to artificially "flood" the market and drum up the FUD alert of "labor shortage" is bogus ... the shortage is for cheap captive labor ... as an older programmer, I have seen many of my friends and colleagues choose other lines of work as they were displaced by H-1B Visa Indians imported ... what a flagrant violation of the law by U.S. companies ... if the public ever realizes the fraud being perpetrauted, there will be real outrage ...
And then we wonder why our best and brightest opt for medical school or law school ... wake the fuck up ... pay for programmers is a fraction of what it was 20 years ago, measured in real dollars ... programmers in the 60s made 100K+ per year ...
... does it say "shareholder" ...
>> I work for a startup in Silicon Valley
Well, there is part of the problem ... what wages are being offered - especially to one of the highest "cost of living" places in the world ... why would someone want to come to California to make less real money than in any large USA metropolitan area ... supply and demand ... the idea that an "American" job should be given to a foreigner just because you want to pay less is not cool ...
... how about hiring an "American" for the job! Replacing American workers with "indentured servants" who, for the most part, have no bargaining power, thus emasculating the capitalist motto of "free markets", put a downward spiral on wages and billing rates that a talented programmer can receive ...
Why are many of our best and brightest students in the U.S. opting for medical school or law school over a tech field? Well, one concern is the rate of compensation ... I have nothing against the importing of talented professionals - if they are given the same "rights" as me to switch jobs that would be O.K. ... but the current H1-B situation is unacceptable ...
As for the notion of a "shortage of programmers", I urge everyone to read Debunking the myth of a desperate labor shortage - and I can witness, first hand, the disposal of American programmers - many veteran programmers I have worked with have recently opted for (a) early retirement, (b) accepting a job at lower rate of pay or (c) choosing a different career line ... as they have been "replaced" for those of the H1-B visa variety ... Sure, if you are talented, and confident of your abilities, you will always find work - the issue is at what price - when the labor market is artificially hampered by a not so free labor supply ...
Perform this simple five-minute experiment:
Just call any firm which hires programmers-a large firm, a small one, new, old, any location-and talk to the HR Department. Ask them if it is true that they reject the vast majority of their programming applicants without even an interview. After they confirm this, ask them why they do this, and they will say that the vast majority of the applicants don't have some new software skill set the employer wants, even though the applicants have years of programming experience
Even the highly pro-business Wall Street Journal, in an article (January 8, 1998) which had claimed that H-1Bs do not adversely affect job opportunities for American programmers, stated that American firms recruit abroad because ``recruiting foreign talent is cheaper than hiring Americans,'' quoting an American recruiter of foreign programmers as saying that he pays them $20,000 to $25,000 less than Americans with the same skills.
Since people who cannot find programming work leave the field, unemployment statistics for programmers are meaningless. Twenty years after graduation from college, only 19% of computer science majors are still employed as programmers.
opera
... yes, I'm gonna "pimp" the Opera browser again ...
Why do I prefer Opera over MSIE, even though I had to shell out 18 schmolies (student price) for a copy?
... heh, seriously, thank you for the reply, downloading it now ... keep up the good work!
hmm, all the php heavy hitters perusing these banterings ... rasmus, you, the phpbuilder.com crew, etc ...