Hmm. Funny, I have a P166 with 48 MB of RAM and E is easily one of the most responsive WMs on the system.
And as for design..E doesn't _have_ any UI design. That's..um..the whole point... UI design is the fault of the person who makes the theme you use.
The one thing that really needs to be fixed is the Gnome 'integration'. Raster? Do you hear me?;-) Actually, there are three things that E needs:
(a) Better Gnome integration (b) Better handling of decorations and menus (let themes create multiple menus and open them anywhere, let themes open window menus) (c) GIVE IT A SCRIPTING LANGUAGE! This is maybe the most important; as I understand it, the theming commands are already halfway there but a _real_ scripting language would be a godsend. Manipulating E menus as Scheme lists would be excellent.
I have a P166, 48 MB of RAM, and (I believe) 4 MB of video RAM. E is still among the fastest WMs, and it feels like it uses less memory as well. (E-Mac theme, incredibly lightweight and pretty)
The only thing I miss from WindowMaker is the ability to hold down Alt, click anywhere on a window, and drag it around. (and a lot of other things, but that's the big one.:-) )
Oh, and does anyone know whether Raster's ever going to [Guile] put a [Guile] scripting language in E? It would [Guile] make it about [Guile] five times more extensive and [Guile] not much slower (except maybe at startup). Of course, I [Guile] don't have any [Guile] preference as to which [Guile] interpreter he should use. [Guile Guile Guile]
Debs of CVS snapshots have been out for a while..I think there's a link from e.themes.org, the latest one is just a few days old and so it should be almost 0.15;-) Anyway, I use it all the time and it's almost perfectly stable (not to mention being smaller and faster than wmaker! That was the one thing really keeping me from switching..)
I assume there'll be a "real" 0.15 in a day or two.
Which Library do Distributions Use
on
Red Hat Backlash?
·
· Score: 1
Debian uses glibc.:-)
Daniel
[ neither Gnome nor KDE is the 'official' Debian 'desktop environment' AFAIK. I suspect Potato will have a choice between them in installation if a kosher version of Qt is released by then. But what do I know..? ]
Red Hat's rise to Linux power is a perfect example of modern day Darwinian Selection. Eventually one distribution *has* to win. Just as Microsoft Windows won the DOS/OS2/Mac/Amiga race of the 80's/90's, Red Hat is winning the Linux race of today. One team comes up with a solution that's better than the rest, and then everyone start standardizing on them, and then anyone who doesn't is left up the creek without a paddle. Is this a bad thing?
Yes. I don't want to be forced to use something that I consider to be technically inferior. If Red Hat abuses its power (which it hasn't yet) we could very well see other distros being forced to adopt their way of doing things. I already have enough trouble with stuff that's only distributed in RPM form (alien helps, but it can only do so much)
Speaking of which..can someone please explain exactly how BeOS 'pervasive multithreading' works? When do threads come into existence? Where do they go? If I write, say, a 'hello world' program w/out worrying about threads, why don't I get deadlocks if my program is spinning extra threads off randomly? Are we dealing with threads being created for GUI callbacks, IO events, etc... ??
I personally use vim (and gvim occasionally) because they start in under 5 seconds. (as opposed to most other [EMACS] editors I've used with similar levels of functionality..)
So, suddenly RMS is against copyright, even though the GPL is built on it? IIRC, that's right. The GPL is described as 'using the tools of code horders against them' (ie using copyright to annul itself)
Ah, I see. The message is that because GNU goals are utopian, they can't occupy the moral high ground. I find that to be quite amusing as well..:-)
IIRC, XFree was officially declared to be part of GNU. Could someone corroborate that (or tell me I'm a complete idiot..this being/., that'll happen anyway though..:-) )
Good point. Actually, my UNIX install problem usually is a lot simpler and involves doing my math homework on the other side of the room while my computer installs stuff. (and don't even ask about upgrading.:-) ) I would've liked to have seen more research on what a package manager is..there's really nothing like them in Windows (well there is but it's completely useless.:-) )
I have mixed feelings here.:-) On the one hand..they have a clue about GNU and its importance. On the other hand...GNU can't be said to have fallen short of its goals until it is complete. Oh well. In 5 years when the strange new kernel is the Hurd instead of Linux, maybe they'll correct this extremely minor point.:-)
It seems slow. The menu icons are very nice, but the menus seem to take quite a bit longer to appear than the KDE menus.
That's because Gnome deallocates and discards menus periodically to save memory. There's an option somewhere to turn that off. (panel properties, methinks)
I'm not going to comment on RPM. I've been installing from CVS but I may switch to debs when someone packages 1.0...either way the library problems aren't there.
He was talking about people whose job it is to know about computers. Not a random appliance. Understand?
Daniel
(and btw: I certainly don't know how the internals of a blender, a TV, or a car work in detail and I couldn't fool with them, but I have a general clue about what's inside. I don't think TVs have hamsters.:-) )
*sigh*. The important thing here is this: on a Windows box, after the Gimp crashed, the entire OS would have died. The Gimp isn't Linux, however much you'd like it to be.
Just one point..I'm sure it'll be really neat when it gets here but can anyone tell me how to get the nightly builds to run? I know they're not supposed to be stable but they segfault straight out. (and I set MOZILLA_HOME). I want to see what I'm looking forward to.:-)
Slashdot Mirror
Well, I don't have an Amiga..could you describe it please? :-) (or post a screenshot I suppose..)
[ looks at screen ]. Funny. I can read all my text. And I'm using a theme. Weird...
Daniel
Hmm. Funny, I have a P166 with 48 MB of RAM and E is easily one of the most responsive WMs on the system.
;-) Actually, there are three things that E needs:
And as for design..E doesn't _have_ any UI design. That's..um..the whole point...
UI design is the fault of the person who makes the theme you use.
The one thing that really needs to be fixed is the Gnome 'integration'. Raster? Do you hear me?
(a) Better Gnome integration
(b) Better handling of decorations and menus (let themes create multiple menus and open them anywhere, let themes open window menus)
(c) GIVE IT A SCRIPTING LANGUAGE! This is maybe the most important; as I understand it, the theming commands are already halfway there but a _real_ scripting language would be a godsend. Manipulating E menus as Scheme lists would be excellent.
Daniel
I have a P166, 48 MB of RAM, and (I believe) 4 MB of video RAM. E is still among the fastest WMs, and it feels like it uses less memory as well. (E-Mac theme, incredibly lightweight and pretty)
:-) )
The only thing I miss from WindowMaker is the ability to hold down Alt, click anywhere on a window, and drag it around. (and a lot of other things, but that's the big one.
Oh, and does anyone know whether Raster's ever going to [Guile] put a [Guile] scripting language in E? It would [Guile] make it about [Guile] five times more extensive and [Guile] not much slower (except maybe at startup). Of course, I [Guile] don't have any [Guile] preference as to which [Guile] interpreter he should use. [Guile Guile Guile]
Daniel
Debs of CVS snapshots have been out for a while..I think there's a link from e.themes.org, the latest one is just a few days old and so it should be almost 0.15 ;-) Anyway, I use it all the time and it's almost perfectly stable (not to mention being smaller and faster than wmaker! That was the one thing really keeping me from switching..)
I assume there'll be a "real" 0.15 in a day or two.
Daniel
Never is a long time...
Daniel
Errr, I think you're thinking of the Republicans. Although these days it's getting hard to tell the difference..
Daniel
I think that post was intended as humor. I hope.
Debian uses glibc. :-)
Daniel
[ neither Gnome nor KDE is the 'official' Debian 'desktop environment' AFAIK. I suspect Potato will have a choice between them in installation if a kosher version of Qt is released by then. But what do I know..? ]
Red Hat's rise to Linux power is a perfect example of modern day Darwinian Selection. Eventually one
distribution *has* to win. Just as Microsoft Windows won the DOS/OS2/Mac/Amiga race of the
80's/90's, Red Hat is winning the Linux race of today. One team comes up with a solution that's better
than the rest, and then everyone start standardizing on them, and then anyone who doesn't is left up the
creek without a paddle. Is this a bad thing?
Yes. I don't want to be forced to use something that I consider to be technically inferior. If Red Hat abuses its power (which it hasn't yet) we could very well see other distros being forced to adopt their way of doing things. I already have enough trouble with stuff that's only distributed in RPM form (alien helps, but it can only do so much)
Daniel
Speaking of which..can someone please explain exactly how BeOS 'pervasive multithreading' works? When do threads come into existence? Where do they go? If I write, say, a 'hello world' program w/out worrying about threads, why don't I get deadlocks if my program is spinning extra threads off randomly? Are we dealing with threads being created for GUI callbacks, IO events, etc... ??
Daniel
I personally use vim (and gvim occasionally) because they start in under 5 seconds. (as opposed to most other [EMACS] editors I've used with similar levels of functionality..)
Daniel
Now, if only the Crystal Space folks would autoconf-ize their stuff. (I'd do it but I can't understand the horrible tangle of Makefiles they use. :-(
Daniel
So, suddenly RMS is against copyright, even though the GPL is built on it?
:-)
IIRC, that's right. The GPL is described as 'using the tools of code horders against them' (ie using copyright to annul itself)
Ah, I see. The message is that because GNU goals are utopian, they can't occupy the moral high ground.
I find that to be quite amusing as well..
Daniel
I did. So...
Daniel
IIRC, XFree was officially declared to be part of GNU. Could someone corroborate that (or tell me I'm a complete idiot..this being /., that'll happen anyway though.. :-) )
Daniel
Good point. Actually, my UNIX install problem usually is a lot simpler and involves doing my math homework on the other side of the room while my computer installs stuff. (and don't even ask about upgrading. :-) ) I would've liked to have seen more research on what a package manager is..there's really nothing like them in Windows (well there is but it's completely useless. :-) )
Daniel
Excellent article. But:
:-) On the one hand..they have a clue about GNU and its importance. On the other hand...GNU can't be said to have fallen short of its goals until it is complete. Oh well. In 5 years when the strange new kernel is the Hurd instead of Linux, maybe they'll correct this extremely minor point. :-)
GNU fell short of its goals, but...
I have mixed feelings here.
Daniel
FWIW, I believe my OS is officially named Debian GNU/Linux. :-)
Daniel
Actually, I believe I saw proposals to create GNU/Solaris and GNU/FreeBSD systems.
Daniel
If they had not developed the tools, someone else would have.
But they did.
Daniel
It seems slow. The menu icons are very nice, but the menus seem to take quite a bit longer to appear than the KDE menus.
That's because Gnome deallocates and discards menus periodically to save memory. There's an option somewhere to turn that off. (panel properties, methinks)
I'm not going to comment on RPM. I've been installing from CVS but I may switch to debs when someone packages 1.0...either way the library problems aren't there.
Daniel
Please read the post. Go ahead, read it. Now:
:-) )
He was talking about people whose job it is to know about computers. Not a random appliance. Understand?
Daniel
(and btw: I certainly don't know how the internals of a blender, a TV, or a car work in detail and I couldn't fool with them, but I have a general clue about what's inside. I don't think TVs have hamsters.
*sigh*. The important thing here is this: on a Windows box, after the Gimp crashed, the entire OS would have died. The Gimp isn't Linux, however much you'd like it to be.
Daniel
Just one point..I'm sure it'll be really neat when it gets here but can anyone tell me how to get the nightly builds to run? I know they're not supposed to be stable but they segfault straight out. (and I set MOZILLA_HOME). I want to see what I'm looking forward to. :-)
Daniel
Methinks your problem is not the library..it's RPM...
Daniel