GNOME bashers are all forgetting something
on
GNOME 1.0 Released
·
· Score: 1
Unfortunately it isn't. I think the worst bugs will be gone in a week or two. But there's too much flakiness. Stuff just doesn't work. It's almost there but just far enough away to be not quite ready.
Ech. I've been using Gnome from CVS for a long time and if I had been in charge, I would have waited for a couple weeks at least to release. There are way too many bugs still floating around there..odd things happen unexpectedly..it'll be cleared up soon but many people will take their first impression of Gnome from the 1.0 release. They should have gone to 1.0pre1 or 0.9.10.
gnumeric is almost here (stabler than the panel I think). gwp is about six months from being done. Don't know about the other things, Excel and Word were all I ever used anyway..
??? Grr.:-) Maybe it got fixed today (CVS a day old). I apologize if that's the case. But my point stands, there are other bugs out there. And I wish they'd closed my bug report if that's the case.. I'm sure it's not a Debian bug, though.
Who cares what came before what. Windows is the computing standard now due to ease of installation and adequate package management. Supporting "splinter" OSes like Linux is simply doing computer users a disservice.
There are not that many bug reports on the Gnome bugs page. Go to bugs.gnome.org and look around. I generally expect to at least hear "you're an idiot, I'm closing this bug".
What do you mean about providing a machine to run my PyGtk program on? It's very simple..just pops up a box asking for the package name, severity level, and bug information. Should I be letting people run it as an X client off my machine? I don't get your comment at all.
(btw: I was complaining about the lack of reading as a comparison to Debian's BTS, where I usually get at least an answer within a few days. They get _many_ more bugs.
Eh? I'm running Gnome and E with a pixmap theme on a P166 with 48 megabytes of RAM. Only have problems when I'm running Netscape or several instances of gcc. Neither of those are part of Gnome, so it's not Gnome's fault they take up 50% of my memory.:-)
Not that that's helped them..:-( (the best BTS doesn't help if the developers and users ignore it..I submitted a pygtk program to gnome-list that gives a nice GUI to the process of bug-submission but it was ignored.. Only about a third of the developers seem to actually read the bugs, I've taken to cc'ing the list to make sure someone listens.. )
Daniel
Yes, only a bit. (In defense of FVWM)
on
GNOME 1.0 Released
·
· Score: 1
Right now I'm in the process of switching from wmaker to E, having finally found a theme that's pretty and doesn't eat memory like crazy. Enlightenment takes around one or two megs of memory, and my X server takes up no more than usual, when I'm running it. (it's E-Mac, posted to e.themes.org recently) It doesn't have as many key/mousebindings as I'd like but I've sent the author some suggestions and it sounds like he'll incorporate them. It looks like the next release will be Very Good Indeed. Where was I? Oh yeah. E doesn't look like Win9x.:-)
I think you are discovering how difficult it is to keep your system up-to-date if you compile everything yourself.:-) Seriously, as I've said before, 90% of the non-Gnome support libraries are available on any self-respecting recent system. By my count, you need the following 'Gnome' packages to have Gnome:
ORBit - a CORBA ORB. Written for Gnome but usable without it (AFAIK) as well. Therefore, a separate package.
gnome-libs - the only thing that's really 1.0 here, this provides tons of useful helper functions.
gnome-core - contains the panel and a few basic apps (terminal, editor, menu editor). Of course, you won't be able to do much with it. Would you prefer if Gnome had tied mc directly into the core libraries so you could never use another file manager? Integration! Easier to compile! Benefits the user!
Daniel
For all those who say a stable 1.0 is impossible..
on
GNOME 1.0 Released
·
· Score: 1
I'd like to see users using Gnome. Which is why I wish they had kept the lid on it for..say..a month..or two..or three... I originally thought this was just a nuisance..but I'm starting to wonder if it could be a catastrophe. What was Miguel thinking??? Can someone explain why he felt he had to rush the 1.0 release? And if you say "RedHat"...you lose. RedHat!=Gnome. (If that is true..why did Debianizing files go into CVS?) Oh well. Damage control time I guess.:-)
Daniel
Be happy! (Red Hat != Microsoft, Red Hat != GNOME)
on
GNOME 1.0 Released
·
· Score: 1
I wish they'd made it clear that only gnome-libs is really stable though.:-( A full 1.0 release is just...silly. *sigh*. Hopefully not too much damage is done.
I think. Being a Debian user, I said "oh, neat!" when they started using debbugs and I've been submitting bugs to it on a fairly regular basis ever since... (I said 6-12 earlier but I think it's more) I'm not even counting bug reports on gnome-list. Many. I think I've had 3-4 responses and maybe one of the bugs was fixed. In another case I was told that it was a feature (I still say mixers should read the settings from the sound card when they start up), I was told that a bug against the panel was fixed in CVS (it wasn't--I run CVS--and some other people submitted reports to gnome-list in the last 24 hours. No-one has responded yet). Several of these reports involved crashes from very simple actions: for example, right-click on an icon in gmc, select "Preferences", and click "Cancel". *boom*. segfault. I'd fix it myself but I don't have time to learn how gmc works internally on top of everything else... I also submitted a couple of (very) minor bugfixes. So am I qualified to complain that they're making us all look silly? I'm taking the position that it's just a version number...what they release next month will be the 'real' 1.0.0.:-)
I am very grateful; I think Gnome will be a really great suite of programs when it's finished. Let me repeat that last line, when it's finished. I personally use it all the time. BUT. I currently have half a dozen to a dozen bug reports on the BTS ranging from minor glitches to several reproducible segfaults from common actions. And I don't post every time I encounter a bug. I've been following CVS since last October, and I'm afraid--that they'll just make themselves look silly by releasing Gnome in the state it's in now as "1.0.0". Anyway, looking forward to the 'real' 1.0.0 release next month...
(and yes, 1.0.0 often has bugs. But not nearly so blatant as these.)
Actually, E isn't that bloated if you use a reasonable theme..I'm running the E-Mac theme right now and it takes up an incredibly small amount of memory. Like a meg or two.
Debian makes it hard to see the latest bug fixes? Have you seen the BTS or looked at the security section of the web pages or the proposed-updates packages?
I've got CVS Gnome on my computer. It's incredibly stable...given where it was a month or so ago. But whose decision was it to go to 1.0.0? Was this just because we ran out of numbers? Hearing about it first on slashdot was also somewhat..amusing..it hasn't been announced on Gnome-List...
I suspect the only thing at 1.0.0 is gnome-libs. Everything else is too flaky still. (in gmc: right-click on a file icon. Select "Properties". Click on "Cancel".) I'm already having enough trouble dealing with people who complain about Gnome's alphaness...
(otoh..most components are almost as stable as the Microsoft equivalents and don't show any sign of ceasing to improve. So it's no less newbie-friendly than Windows and can't do anything but get better..:-) )
If some business does attempt to fork the kernel, I'm sure the community will respond with 'extreme prejudice' to that organization.
This is one of the things that bothers me from time to time about Linux becoming more mainstream. Right now this is impossible, but as the non-technical user base of Linux grows, more and more people will be willing to use what's popular, no matter the technical difficulties with it. (they probably use Windows already) Heck, look at the 60% (?) of the market that RedHat already has; I can imagine them having enough market leverage to fork things in a year or two. Even unintentionally. (for example, IIRC the __register_frame_info bug in RedHat currently renders it incompatible with distros that have fixed the problem)
Slashdot Mirror
Unfortunately it isn't. I think the worst bugs will be gone in a week or two. But there's too much flakiness. Stuff just doesn't work. It's almost there but just far enough away to be not quite ready.
Daniel
Ech. I've been using Gnome from CVS for a long time and if I had been in charge, I would have waited for a couple weeks at least to release. There are way too many bugs still floating around there..odd things happen unexpectedly..it'll be cleared up soon but many people will take their first impression of Gnome from the 1.0 release. They should have gone to 1.0pre1 or 0.9.10.
Daniel
gnumeric is almost here (stabler than the panel I think). gwp is about six months from being done. Don't know about the other things, Excel and Word were all I ever used anyway..
Daniel
Grr.
I'm sure it's not a Debian bug, though.
Daniel
Who cares what came before what. Windows is the computing standard now due to ease of installation and adequate package management. Supporting "splinter" OSes like Linux is simply doing computer users a disservice.
There are not that many bug reports on the Gnome bugs page. Go to bugs.gnome.org and look around. I generally expect to at least hear "you're an idiot, I'm closing this bug".
What do you mean about providing a machine to run my PyGtk program on? It's very simple..just pops up a box asking for the package name, severity level, and bug information. Should I be letting people run it as an X client off my machine? I don't get your comment at all.
(btw: I was complaining about the lack of reading as a comparison to Debian's BTS, where I usually get at least an answer within a few days. They get _many_ more bugs.
Daniel
Yes, your mother will just..um..use apt. Don't give your mother Debian until 2.2. :-)
Daniel
Eh? I'm running Gnome and E with a pixmap theme on a P166 with 48 megabytes of RAM. Only have problems when I'm running Netscape or several instances of gcc. Neither of those are part of Gnome, so it's not Gnome's fault they take up 50% of my memory. :-)
Not that that's helped them.. :-( (the best BTS doesn't help if the developers and users ignore it..I submitted a pygtk program to gnome-list that gives a nice GUI to the process of bug-submission but it was ignored.. Only about a third of the developers seem to actually read the bugs, I've taken to cc'ing the list to make sure someone listens.. )
Daniel
Right now I'm in the process of switching from wmaker to E, having finally found a theme that's pretty and doesn't eat memory like crazy. Enlightenment takes around one or two megs of memory, and my X server takes up no more than usual, when I'm running it. (it's E-Mac, posted to e.themes.org recently) It doesn't have as many key/mousebindings as I'd like but I've sent the author some suggestions and it sounds like he'll incorporate them. It looks like the next release will be Very Good Indeed. :-)
Where was I? Oh yeah. E doesn't look like Win9x.
Daniel
By my count, you need the following 'Gnome' packages to have Gnome:
Daniel
I'd like to see users using Gnome. Which is why I wish they had kept the lid on it for..say..a month..or two..or three... :-)
I originally thought this was just a nuisance..but I'm starting to wonder if it could be a catastrophe. What was Miguel thinking??? Can someone explain why he felt he had to rush the 1.0 release? And if you say "RedHat"...you lose. RedHat!=Gnome. (If that is true..why did Debianizing files go into CVS?)
Oh well. Damage control time I guess.
Daniel
I wish they'd made it clear that only gnome-libs is really stable though. :-( A full 1.0 release is just...silly. *sigh*. Hopefully not too much damage is done.
Daniel
I think. Being a Debian user, I said "oh, neat!" when they started using debbugs and I've been submitting bugs to it on a fairly regular basis ever since... (I said 6-12 earlier but I think it's more) I'm not even counting bug reports on gnome-list. Many. :-)
I think I've had 3-4 responses and maybe one of the bugs was fixed. In another case I was told that it was a feature (I still say mixers should read the settings from the sound card when they start up), I was told that a bug against the panel was fixed in CVS (it wasn't--I run CVS--and some other people submitted reports to gnome-list in the last 24 hours. No-one has responded yet). Several of these reports involved crashes from very simple actions: for example, right-click on an icon in gmc, select "Preferences", and click "Cancel". *boom*. segfault. I'd fix it myself but I don't have time to learn how gmc works internally on top of everything else... I also submitted a couple of (very) minor bugfixes. So am I qualified to complain that they're making us all look silly? I'm taking the position that it's just a version number...what they release next month will be the 'real' 1.0.0.
Daniel
I am very grateful; I think Gnome will be a really great suite of programs when it's finished. Let me repeat that last line, when it's finished. I personally use it all the time. BUT. I currently have half a dozen to a dozen bug reports on the BTS ranging from minor glitches to several reproducible segfaults from common actions. And I don't post every time I encounter a bug. I've been following CVS since last October, and I'm afraid--that they'll just make themselves look silly by releasing Gnome in the state it's in now as "1.0.0". Anyway, looking forward to the 'real' 1.0.0 release next month...
(and yes, 1.0.0 often has bugs. But not nearly so blatant as these.)
Daniel
Actually, E isn't that bloated if you use a reasonable theme..I'm running the E-Mac theme right now and it takes up an incredibly small amount of memory. Like a meg or two.
Daniel
Debian makes it hard to see the latest bug fixes? Have you seen the BTS or looked at the security section of the web pages or the proposed-updates packages?
Daniel
I've got CVS Gnome on my computer. It's incredibly stable...given where it was a month or so ago. But whose decision was it to go to 1.0.0? Was this just because we ran out of numbers? Hearing about it first on slashdot was also somewhat..amusing..it hasn't been announced on Gnome-List...
:-) )
I suspect the only thing at 1.0.0 is gnome-libs. Everything else is too flaky still. (in gmc: right-click on a file icon. Select "Properties". Click on "Cancel".) I'm already having enough trouble dealing with people who complain about Gnome's alphaness...
(otoh..most components are almost as stable as the Microsoft equivalents and don't show any sign of ceasing to improve. So it's no less newbie-friendly than Windows and can't do anything but get better..
Daniel
I've been compiling Gnome from CVS for a couple of months. It takes my computer the better part of a day. He may want to use the program.. :-)
qvwm is..saw it on Freshmeat recently..
I've tried segfaults. It doesn't even bring up a window. I think the program is:
:-) Seriously, it sounds like it'll be cool when it finally works.
int main(int argc,char argv[])
{
char *test=0;
printf(test);
}
Daniel
Been trying that for a while. It segfaults.
Daniel
I think you need to check your keyboard, it looks like a couple of your letter keys are sending numbers to the computer instead...
Daniel
I have a .deb snapshot of CVS E on my screen right now, try
http://www.debian.org/~jules/e-cvs/debs
Daniel
If some business does attempt to fork the kernel, I'm sure the community will respond with 'extreme prejudice' to that organization.
This is one of the things that bothers me from time to time about Linux becoming more mainstream. Right now this is impossible, but as the non-technical user base of Linux grows, more and more people will be willing to use what's popular, no matter the technical difficulties with it. (they probably use Windows already) Heck, look at the 60% (?) of the market that RedHat already has; I can imagine them having enough market leverage to fork things in a year or two. Even unintentionally. (for example, IIRC the __register_frame_info bug in RedHat currently renders it incompatible with distros that have fixed the problem)
Daniel