Slashdot Mirror
Enlightenment 0.15
It's official: After approximately 17 years of delay and hype,
Raster has
released Enlightenment DR 0.15.
Get it and check out tigert's new theme. Look at the ripples.
Play with all the little gizmos. Waste clock cycles and memory
with reckless abandon. Its fun.
wait for mirrors! i want to be able to download without the site getting slashdotted!
Time to watch the flood of people hit the irc channel... :) poor rasterman.com, s'gonna get a beating now..
Nite_Hawk
Freakin' gargoyles on an e-term? I suppose
we were all 14 at one point.
Can't be long now, with Linux 2.2, Gnome 1.0
and now E 15 released...
Bang!
how do I switch between desktops without using a pager? ie in window maker I do alt+1 for workspace one, etc.
looks like enlightenment.org is down and out. funny how things like this happen :)
This guy's had this disclaimer for E for years! It's like his insurance policy for when someone complains that it's broken. How many times have you read, "E got a complete rewrite"? How bad a designer do you have to be to need to completely rewrite something so manny times?
Everyone else seems to be able to put out a stable version of their project every once and a while, apparently not him.
Don't like E so don't use it? Ok. But I can still complain about it.
Look if you love E. GREAT! If you don't then don't use it. This is his project, He has had a wonderful opportunity to get paid for something he loves doing. HELL wouldn't we all want that. And isn't great when we see a fellow geek/hacker get the "quan". Not everyone deserves our support, but at least respect them for what they are trying to accomplish. be it KDE, GNOME, E, Windowmaker, Selling Linux to Users, or Getting the suits on board. It's all LINUX! It's all FREE/OPEN.
I guess I'm just sick of people beating up on one App after another, "it's too bloated", "he sucks". You didn't PAY anything for it. IT WAS FREE! So chill:)
So stop dissin' the guy. You would think he coded Win95 by some reponses.
doomicon (my passwd is written at home)
Peace and Stay Focused.
Gnome 1.0 and whatever version of E comes with it both crashed on me within 15 minutes. Sigh... I didn't even _try_ any of Gnome's fancy apps, except the panel. Gave up on it as soon as the crashes got silly.
I only tried E becase Gnome's panel refused to run unless I was running a "Gnome compliant WM". Sigh, so much for WM independence. It pissed me off because I _like_ my fvwm2.
Themewise: there are some nice themes around, but installing them isn't easy. Is it? I would ideally like to just download a file, click a URL in netscape or whatever to change my entire desktop theme. Then I could just keep on trying them until I find one I like.
I feel your pain! I just got GNOME & E running less than 20 hrs ago:)
And what are you contributing? How much do you
pay to use Enlightenment? Who are you to critisize how Raster develops E? Are you a consumer who is upset?
let me guess... nothing, nada, a nobody, and nope.
Pardont he typos, this keyboard is dying.
I've been using E15 cvs for a while now. I'm not into eye candy. I've noted some alarming things about E:
1) It's very usable, after that short learning curve. The customizability of it is awesome.
2) The speed is ungodly. i have a K6-2 350mhz system with an 8mb ATI pci video card, and 64mb of Ram. This thing does screen rewrites faster than any other window manager on my box, INCLUDING Blackbox. I would say that's probably due to image caching. Blackbox is an excellent window manager (along with window maker), so I decided to try it for a day. Blackbox was noticeably slower (although prolly still more stable) than E. So now i'm back to E, I'm sold. I don't have gargoyle's asses sticking off my windows or anything, I use a simple TigerT-made themes (some stone grey one). It rocks. I'm one of the few people to never crash (this version of) E15. And I use it heavily, and let it run for days on end.
I've noticed a lot of people are bitching about things in E that have been fixed/modified. I think if you have the hardware, you should check it out, you might just be in for a suprise...
Definitely not recommended for lesser hardware, but I've found on higher end hardware its much much faster than anything else. also, for those of you considering upgrading your computers to run E, try upgrading your video card first. i noticed the largest single speed increase came when i went from a 2mb video card, to a 4mb, then to an 8mb. Start off with at least an 8mb card. Those 16mb TNT cards are looking hotter each day.
I'd just like to take this time to thank Mandrake and rsaterman (sorry, had to do it, raster) for all of their hard work, especially in the face of so much criticism. Remember the days when fvwm-xpm was around, and you were told you weren't gonna be able to make this project truly useable? well, those days are over...
E15 is just a candy coated GUI for the kiddies and it's lacking all the features that makes a good UI.
C'mon. Someone needs to stop playing monster artist and write a sound UI that has some style as well as thought put into it. The nicest interface with functionalitly I've seen lately is Rhapsody (MacOS X. Very clean. KDE is almost there but it has too much overhead.
Hmm... maybe there are benefits to running a half-ass kde install on top of a half-ass slackware install... Then agian, I can only use the first half of the bells and wistles I got around to compiling
Is 'cause you have the mind of a four year old.
I would be nice to get at least 1K, but considering the monumental opportunity at actually not being refused.....I am very happy :)
.5K would be even worse
After all, not being able to get over
"Someone needs to stop playing monster artist and write a sound UI"
Well unless that person is you, I figure you got two choices.
1. Use E
2. Don Use E.
but whatever you decide please do us all a favor and shut the f**k up. Most of us are really getting sick of the whining from people who don't pay for the OS or apps, and don't contribute. So please just shutup.
thank you:)
What? And ruin all the fun?
/.ed servers in the morning
I love the smell of
AndyM
I'd rather see a developer with some intenstinal fortitude that will step back and choose to rewrite imperfect code than a loser like you that (if you're even developer quality) release shit and is too stupid to know it sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'd rather see a developer with some intenstinal fortitude that will step back and choose to rewrite imperfect code than a loser like you that (if you're even developer quality) releases shit and is too stupid to know it sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I understand that everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion and sometimes a person's opinion agree's witht opinion of radical, however, the above post seems to be like a response right out of a FAQ. PLEASE GIVE ME A BREAK!
Well, I've used E with X before but I have to say it can't come close to the usability of 8-1/2. But
then again I'm a minamilist for my gui.
-Toaster
I'm really getting tired of watching all this hostility between GNOME users and KDE users. I prefer the GNOME project a little more than KDE, mostly for the reasons you gave above, although currently I use neither, since just a window manager does almost everything I need right now. I do plan to install GNOME once it's stabalized a bit (I generally don't consider .0 releases to be stable, unless I'm very familiar with development and know that the project moved on to .0 because the developers couldn't think up any more excuses for it not to). Despite my personal preferences though, I don't really feel the need to make sniping little comments at the "opposition". You see it a lot from both sides, when people aren't actually directly flaming each other. People make patronizing comments about the other project, each side talking about the other the way MS spokespeople talk about Linux (or at least they used to, the company line seems to be in flux regarding Linux right now). It's all: "Oh, we're impressed with what they've done, although it's not something for people who are really serious about it".
Grrrr, do I have to sing the Free Software Anthem at you guys or something?
Ithink the more relevant questionis:
If Bill Gates was FINED a nickle for every time Windows crashed, how soon would he be BROKE?
That seems rather stupid... how would you switch to the console then?
am i drunk (which is very likely at this point), or has E15 been with the gnome releases for awhile?? i'm thinkin' that raster finally updated his 'official' E page there...
I don't know how I feel about the gargoyles, but I'd sure like to take a shower *with* Xena! Hot DAMN!
Danny.
I wish my copy of GNOME was stable. Damn thing crashes all the time here, and it's real hard to tell which part died. KDE doesn't do that. On the other hand, KDE is boring, and GNOME with E is about the sexiest looking desktop imaginable. So which am I running? GNOME/E. I can always restart, all the K apps I've tried still work fine, and it's worth the trouble for the extra eye candy! --shane
According to Raster, E is mostly a spare time project and he doesn't get to spend much time at work on it. Besides, Raster's development philosophy is different than AfterStep, for instance. Which is more important to you, adding new features quickly or creating a solid foundation for long term development? The two rewrites of E slowed development but ended up making it much more powerful, flexible, and extensible than any other WM.
Dave K
daking at infinet dot com
If you're so upset about it, just use a different WM. I don't see what the problem is.
gome seems to be a pain to get up, but having used kde, IMHO gnome + E look a lot nicer! that and kde leaked ( well for me ) and it (and some gnome apps) have bad UI , that is they use the M$ "OK Apply Close" WTF is Apply? hmm? and how would i know that Apply is like OK but it keeps the window up? but dont get me wrong kde WORKS, it NEVER crashed on me! but gnome does.. (well gnome-seessen and sometimes E but not that much)
guess i can have my cake and eat it too...
Well, WindowMaker my favourite WM also sucks in that matter. No pager, it's so annoying, I almost don't use the virtual desktops because of that.
I just don't see the reason for not including a pager. Stupid naysayers. But what can I do, WindowMaker is still the best, I have to use it.
I just got a new mirror of E up at www-users.itlabs.umn.edu/~nels1678/e/
;)
This is my university homepage, and as far as I can tell it doesn't violate the usage policy, but please don't hit it too hard....
Nite_Hawk
Without people like Rasterman we'd all be using
amber monochrome terminals. You can't get any more mature than that.
> It looks like win95, even with its ugly
> themes turned on.
Take a look at the screenshots in
http://g204.ryd.student.liu.se/screenshots/
Beware that they are big (both area and filesize)!
--
Fredrik Henbjork
frehe491@student.liu.se
Back in the early days of Enlightenment, it was
what first really convinced me to run Linux
permanently and scrap Windows. That was fun for
a couple of months, but I eventually ended up
switching to something more functional.
Even now, I still think E and GNOME are more or
less just toys. Every now and then I do a CVS
update, but still haven't seen anything to
convince me to switch from WindowMaker and KDE.
If RedHat 6.0 is released within the next month watch RedHat Inc. go down in flames :)
GNOME 1.0 should have been GNOME 0.6! Why doesn't RedHat wise up and bundle GNOME *AND* KDE in their distribution?
ugh
That's the the way E and Gnome kinda are at the moment. I've noticed that you kinda have to get everything Gnome from the same dir at the same time and be really carefull about mix-'n-match
I just install all of it from rpm's in one shot...rpm -U --nodeps *.rpm...works OK. Kinda playing with a loaded gun though. Hope it helps.
Clevo
Could someone please explain (in detail) the bar at the top vs. the arrow tabs on top of the icon rack vs. Alt-Fn. Please.
Yes I would like to know as well.
What have you contributed? What lib's?
What WindowMananger? It's obviously better
than E, right? Where's the url I can download
it from? Come on, don't hold back.
I was once just keep whinning and complainnig about the slowness of E due to my clueless mind
and stupidness.
But now i do not complaining cause E is not like it used to be. It is usable, stable, fast and fun.
Sorry, raster.
My apology to raster cause i'm that sucker than use a pentium 100 128 RAM who just do not know a single thing but blah blah blah.
You have certainly done a GREAT job. Its now run as fast as it could on my machine. I dump icewm away.
To those who need to speed up E or fully maximize the capacity of E, here something to do.
1. run imlib_config (the underscore one)
tweak it to your maksimum hardware spec, improve the image cache
2. run e-conf
disable unwanted animations
3. add more rams
4. buy a better graphics cards
5. get a better computer
~~enLITEment
I have seen quite a few posts regarding bundling
KDE with the RH distro.
Am I the only person in the world who has had
absolutely NO trouble just downloading and
installing it via RPM?
doomicon (passwd is at home)
Peace and Stay Focused.
Pivo I have read through your posts "E is Lame", your "when I was learning to program I would rewrite too", "E is for Newbies".
What's up with the negativity and why?
Just curious.
doomicon (passwd at home)
Peace and Stay Focused.
heh, thought you died Mark --
;)
That MP3 site still up?
uselinux@email.com
S'funny.. what attracted me to unix was that I could do stuff with it. Well, it was that or Windows 2..
I use E at work the whole time, on a workstation that hasn't been rebooted in 60 days or so (DR 0.14 out of freebsd 2.2.7 ports, too.. got 40 machines to admin, can't be bothered to mess around ). Used to use FVWM, wanted something nicer to stare at every day, and it's never crashed out. Eterm uses about 6-700k each, too..
Add ftp://ftp.flirble.org/pub/X/wm/enlightenment/ /.'ed. Pretty much like every other mirror, too.. possibly it might have been better to wait a day before this announcement :)
for UK ppl. Since I'm responsible for the E mirror on that site, I just checked the archive, and it hasn't been able to update the mirror.. probably due to the main site being
for UK ppl. Since I'm responsible for the E mirror on that site, I just checked the archive, and it hasn't been able to update the mirror.. probably due to the main site being
Anyone who says E is bloated and unstable is full of shit. I've been running the release that came with GNOME 0.99.8 with the "Clean" theme for four days straight now and it hasn't crashed once (GNOME hasn't either). On top of that it is using less ram that a freshly started kwm!!!!
From top
Enlightenment 2.6% 1704KB
kwm 6.2% 4096KB
I'm sincerely curious. I pretty much associated him with just working on E. I know he also did eeyes and imlib--does he do other graphic work also?
And what _is_ his relationship with RH? With all his stuff at rasterman.com it almost seems like he's got some independence from them.
And what does imlib replace anyway, or what is it really for? Could someone explain?
here here! People that are complaining that E is too much eye candy are missing the details. E can look any way you want it to look. If you think the default theme is too gaudy, grab another. Try looking at e.themes.org. Bottom line is that E lets to change almost everything about its look. Start with the theme that you like and start tweaking when you feel like it. You don't have to get everything perfect the first day you set it up. My desktop is ever evolving. I just make changes when I feel like it or come up with something new. It is nice be able to have control. :-) I agree with others that it would be really cool to have a scripting language for defining actions in E. This would make E not only the ultimate in customizable looks, but also in feel. Of course, I shouldn't be looking a gift horse in the mouth. Thanks Rasterman and Mandrake!
Does it sit above or replace Xlib? or xt? or GTK? What's it for?
E is great. GNOME (IMHO) is a ugly useless waste of screen real estate.
That's not to say that lots of GNOME apps aren't useful. It's just GNOME itself.
While you are correct to a point, I don't think you have looked at the options. If you want to make it look like Win95, MacOS8, or the computers on a sci-fi movie, you can! I find the light themes fast and useable, while the cool themes are impressive...
For a while I had E14 and WindowMaker. I always used WM because E was slow and I couldn't minimise... now I use E because it is about as fast and (in my oppinion) more useable. I can configure key combos to do almost everything to the window manager...
Each to their own, but E is cernenally comming around to be both useable and amazingly configurable.
--Ben
yup, KDE sucks. It's such a sick attempt to emulate winblows. And don't complain about E, try writing it yourself.
support@microsoft.com
KDE may be an attempt to look and act like Windoze, but at least it's not near as ugly and useless as GNOME.
I don't think that is correct. Not sure, but the last info I have read is that RH is continuing to ship with WM and Afterstep as well. I don't think they are planning to make E a default.
Look at the bright side, if they did, then that would finally kill the default fvwm95:)
Anyone have any info on this? I couldn't find any specifics on RH site.
doomicon (passwd at home)
Peace and Stay Focused
If you don't like it, don't bash it. Its free (as in no cost, and freedom giving) software.
Personally, I don't like it myself. But I am not going to bash it or the author. I'm going to simply not use it.
I don't care much for KDE and haven't yet tried GNOME (haven't had the time, monitoring 12 Orgin2000's, 4 Challenges, and a smidgin of Ultra's can do that to a guy).
Personnally I think both are good projects, trying to do their best for the Linux community, and deserve are support as such.
doomicon(passwd at home)
Peace and Stay Focused
Raster is employed by RH.
E is the project that is most clearly associated with Raster. However, RH did not hire him to work on E. They hired him to work on Gnome, which is his primary project at work. I'm sure he is able to devote some time to E at work, but the majority of E development is done on his own time. This is according to his posts on e-develop. Mandrake also contributed a great deal of his spare time to E; he was a co-author for a while.
www.rasterman.com is Raster's own page, not an official RH page.
Imlib is a very complete and powerful image loading and rendering libary which includes many features such as dithering, scaling, pixmap caching, etc. Imlib was originated when Raster pulled the rendering code out of an earlier version of E. It has since grown into very complete and useful rendering engine and has been folded into the Gnome project.
Besides E, ee, and Imlib, the other contribution that Raster is most well known for is gtk themes. Go to the RHAD page if you want to find out more about what Raster is doing at work and what Imlib is used for.
Dave K
daking at infinet dot com
I've been running the new E with Gnome 1.0 for a couple hours and it seems to be stable and much faster than the old one. I just have one complaint. If you maximize a window, E doesn't take into account the gnome panel and puts part of the window underneath it, rendering maximization pretty much useless. Is there some setting to make windows maximize only to the edge of the panel?
If you want a 'simple, clean looking theme', you need to run the version of fvwm from '94 with an xv-drawn background. it's works suprisingly well.
I love icewm. If there's one thing I can't stand it's excess configurability, and the old icewm 8.* series only have about three settings to play with. This isn't sarcasm, I'm serious. Nothing wastes time like playing with desktop settings.
not to feed an obviously unknowlageable troll, but every time you red that E13 got a rewrite to E14 doesnt count as another complete rewrite it is still the same one. E13 was stable, E14 was a rewrite and lacked features E15 is near rock solid on my system. maybe if people new what they were doing in the first place and rtfm'ed they wouldnt have so many problems.
ArsonSmith
ftp://129.22.251.120/enlightenment-0.15.0.tar.gz
jce2@po.cwru.edu
I have had E and gnome for a while now. The new E is very good with memory now as is gnome panel. With 128 megs, the panel is at 2.8 and E is at 1.9. I have had only minimal problems with Ecvs and havnt even upgraded yet. The latest versions of gnome have never crashed on me. Im not sure why everyone has such trouble with it crashing. I like it much better than kde as far as looks go and gnome takes a much more open approach. From what ive seen, it cant get much better...
why is that? I think E15 has a good solid up-to-date base and is built by someone who has writen a window manager from scratch before. why would it be time to rewrite it? You do something new once to learn what to do, you rewrite it to benifit from what you just learned. I hate it when people talk about "All the re-writes of E" it was rewritten once because of barrers in the code. get over it and either use it or dont, dont complain because you have learned a user interface and are to stuck and closed minded to learn something new.
I've never quite put my finger on it until now.. I don't think your observation could been better stated any other way. I remember watching when x11amp was flamed in its initial GPL release for various silly things that I would normally expect to hear from a PHB..
...Meanwhile... back at the farm...
lo and behold, gtk 1.2 arrives, and x11amp's newly found GPLness has led to lots of really cool developments.
Buy a CD. Mandrake 5.3 is available from CheapBytes for $1.99 (plus shipping). It has KDE v1.1 rpms on it that will install perfectly well on a RedHat system (or you can upgrade everything to the Mandrake packages; RedHat plus a few enhancements).
Also, vendors like Linux Central, Linux Mall, Circadian, etc. will all sell these disks for at a low price.
>> we'd all be using
>> amber monochrome terminals.
I am using a monochrome terminal
>> You can't get any more mature than that.
My computer is for work; not fiddling with widgets. E wastes an obscene amount of memory
and CPU power.
Wheeha! Thanks a lot, I'll try it as soon as there are debs for all of that.
I hear that all the time, but one must remember
that Eterm makes the xserver take up more memory.
Take a look at top some time when opening an Eterm
I've personally noticed that the amount of flaming on slashdot against a piece of free software that just just been released is inversely proportionate to its quality.. I haven't Enlightenment yet (although I've been using Linux for > 3 years).. But, with this slashdot reaction coupled with your nice explanation of things (it always makes me warm and fuzzy to see famous people speak from the heart), I'm going to give Enlightenment a shot when I get home from work.. :)
Take care.
The rest of us, however, have noticed that you can buy these things called "home computers", with which i can do pretty much anything i damn well please at any age.
If you don't like it, fine. Just accept that that does not mean that you've discovered a new mortal enemy.
You know, the argument that you're not allowed to criticize software unless you've coded something analogous.
Hmmm, I think Netscape browsers suck, I hate Mac OS, I can't stand "Married With Children," and I think you and Al Gore are both imbeciles. Uh-oh, wait, I can't say that, since I've never released my own browser, never coded my own OS, never produced my own television series, nor have I manufactured another human being.
Hell, why stop there? By your logic, I see no reason why people should be able to say they like a certain piece of software unless they've coded something similar. They must not have any credibility either, right?
Sure would be a much quieter world if nobody could complain about things for which they haven't created something similar. Lord knows Slashdot would practically be silent.
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com, who has installed and played with KDE and found it nice and stable, installed and played with GNOME and found it nice and unstable but has nothing against trying it out again once the kinks are ironed out, but doesn't see much need to give up twm for either one of them.
"Linux is only free if your time has no value." -- JWZ, mozilla.org
Now this guy has some attitude!
Well said.
Preach on, I love e. Who cares what those idiots think..
> My computer is for work; not fiddling with widgets.
:)
If your computer's for work, why exactly are you spending time posting stuff to Slashdot?
The Gnome pager also works with Windowmaker :)
Cheers
AndyM
Where does it sit in the mix and how does it interact with X and the GTK widgets?
can be tricky, because there are many *specific* library dependancies which are not the stated ones... You have might have to downgrade/upgrade different libraryis which according to the docs (and configure) are ok.
a.
> E themes are absolutely incredible.. you
> can really change the whole look and feel!
> GNOME apps like the calendar and Balsa?
> I couldn't live with out them.
Hmmm...
* how do you get the DR13 style pagers?
* how do you get active borders WMaker style?
* and so far as changing the whole look and feel is concerned -- how do you get enlightenment to change the menu style in XV?
> If you use your brain and RTFM, you can
> install and run them both just fine. (I
> did it from scratch on an older RedHat
> based box today for the first time)
Luck... I had build failures with 0.30, 1.0pre -- I have heard about others having build failures with 1.0. Believe me -- the fscking manuals DON't help -- which page of the manuals tell you how to get rid of the 'parse error before *' that ORBit throws out???
(p.s. I have successfully built GNOME -- this time, and am not going to try again unless I -have- to)
How do you decide which desktop the dragbar will uncover?
I use toggle switches. I almost have ms-basic 1.0 installed.
Yes, this is a big problem. All these Windruggies thinking that all they have to do is point and click at something and, if it doesn't work, it's garbage, Q.E.D.
Not at all sure what to do about Windruggies since it's really rather hard to make people read manuals when they don't have enough sense to reach this conclusion for themselves.
Shit happens and stupid people exist. *shrug*
How about if Linus were fined every time a Linux machine crashed becasue of its inability to properly handle a hard drive with bad blocks?
I know, not Linus's fault. But please, people, be reasonable.
The original Imlib is on top of Xlib. However, one of the first things Raster did after starting at RedHat was to create a version of Imlib on top of gdk to abstract out all of the windowing system specifics. So now there are two versions of Imlib, the Xlib specific one and the Gdk one. AFAIK, like E, most of the code written to use Imlib uses the Xlib version.
Imlib routines are called by the pixmap Gtk engine. When a pixmap Gtk theme is selected, the Imlib routines are called to load and display the pixmap in the widget window. All you need to give Imlib is the filename of the image to use. With the help of external libraries (libjpeg, libpng, etc.) Imlib handles loading the image file and converts into a pixmap. The pixmap is placed into a global pixmap cache, then it is rendered into the window. Imlib's rendering includes scaling and (if necessary) dithering and gamma correction. The Gtk widget does all of the event handling and calls Imlib routines to re-render the pixmap after moves, resizes, etc.
Dave K
daking at infinet dot com
>* and so far as changing the whole look and feel is concerned -- how do you get enlightenment to change the menu style in XV?
You don't really know what a window manager is do you?
You can't have her because she's only 14, and she only likes gargoyles.
it's cool to show your screen shot but that's it.
yea right, i never got mine compiled and run smoothly. ok maybe it's because i'm not a distro-binary-RPM guy. and i know quite a few ppl havn't compiled them and run them.
A friend of mine saw a pic of e .12 and his jaw dropped and he bought linux and quickly reinstalled widnows 95 because it was more stable. E was the most unstable awefull pos I have ever seen since dos. I downloaded gnome 1.0 and gtk 1.2 and e .14 and something simple as changing the background would cause e to crash. Even something simple as opening the desktop properties would work maybe a third of the time. WHen closing E I saw a huge and I mean Huge amount of gtk and e errors. I shook my head in disbelieve. Who knew that clicking on a title bar could cause a gtk error.E development needs to stop before Gates shows a demo of it to microsofties. If Microsoft ever showed this, linux would be dead and scoffed at for years. Remember os/2 when Steve Balmer showed os/2 crashing next to the beta of windows 3.0. Jesse Berst quickly wrote an article calling windows 3.0 suppior and everyone believed it. E is the perfect tool for every linux hater. I am glad that no respectable distro's include it without a special installation. It might have an uptime of 40%. We are not complaining about e but we are just frankly being honest about it. Name one product thats as unstable as e. Even windows 95 is better. I don't have to pray that e wont crash because I sneezed.
Huh?
I've been using E+Gnome for about six months now. I pull stuff out of CVS once a week or so, recompile, delete old libs, and generally screw around with my system on a regular basis. And I've had E crash *once*. The update the next day fixed all the stability problems.
Various Gnome components crash fairly regularly-- about what I'd expect for a Work In Progress. The panel has been stable for about 2 months now; but E has been *extremely* stable.
And if people judge Linux based on one GUI, they are more pathetic than Linux deserves. Screw 'em. I don't care what Microsoft says; and a thousand negative Berst columns couldn't hurt Linux. Linux is not OS/2; nor is it your personal project.
In fact, you have nothing to do with Linux. Linux doesn't need any one person; or any million random people. (Linus himself has stated Linux would probably survive without even him, now.) Linux survives because of its philosophy; part of the philosophy is Freedom. And if a single aspect of that Freedom gives Linux a bad name among some people, so be it. We don't need anyone else.
Linux is getting better. I've watched it mature over the last 6 years; and I've used it since then. I liked Linux enough to use it when there were only 100,000 people using it; the additional 15 million have helped, but also we end up with people like you, people who jack off and complain and don't really contribute. (What have I done? Not a whole lot. But I've contributed code here and there.)
I had no crashes with e on my computer but man does it F*ck gnome 1.0. E had more bugs in it then a hedge of swiss cheese. I couldn't even set a background image on it. I can only do it after selecting custum theme and even then the results are pretty wierd. ohhh I had such high hopes for gnome and enlightment. Enlighment can look soo cool and futuristic. I hope wmaker will evolve to look more e like and I hope gnome can stick its head of the water soon. Kde is to corperate conservative looking and not as hip or has as many cool utilities as gnome like the ghexeditor. I use to code c along time ago and I might put my mouth where my code is and fix it but untill then I will never and I mean never use gnome/e at work. I can just imagine the calls at 4 in the morning of xwindows crashes. I am glad that e supports gtk better then any widnows manager. Perhaps I can make a wmaker and e hybrid with gtk support.
Where can i get tigert's new theme??
Well, in that case, it would seem that us kids will have a plenty easy time coaxing her into the shower. As for those of you with a distaste for gargoyles....
good luck??
--
Ross
http://www.erols.com/vandegrift/index.html
Where can I get a deb for the required imlib 1.9.4-1?
//drMaze
There are debs for wm compiled with kde in potato. apt-get install wmaker-kde
Kpager.. you'll have to compile that yourself.. Can't be that hard.
Yes but... WM with Kde support has no root menus!
Get GNOME. Run panel. Use gnome-pager.
--
David Coulson (TechNoir)
technoir@themes.org
However, when a .deb comes out, if it does minimize windows, I'm willing to give it another shot. But with a simple, clean looking theme.
---
My desktop is Window Maker, however. The dock apps rule!
---
With `simple, clean looking' I was thinking of Windowmaker, wm2, or icewm. These are window managers I like. Or even olwm, were it not for the weird way its menus work, mouse-button-wise.
---
http://www.debian.org/~bma/enlightenment
apt line:
deb http://www.debian.org/~bma enlightenment/
--
Debian GNU/Linux - http://www.debian.org/
I just throw everything on the desktop, since it's the easiest way of keeping track of things. I agree that gnome crashes all the time, completely unusable. I installed KDE again today on another computer in 15 minutes, and it's solid as a rock. Gotta love it :)
I've used Linux for 3 years, and do all my programming in it. I'm definitely not a newbie, and know the system pretty well. But damn, I use KDE. I think people need to stop labelling and generalizing about people who use KDE/Red Hat. I use both because they work, and I can change what I want.
Run 'dox' and there should be (there was before anyway) some info on hotkeys. I agree though, one of the things I love about WM is the alt+1,2 etc, it makes SO much difference while I'm working. I hope E+gnome brings the same level of efficiency as well as nice looks.
Alan
"Ripples"? Damn, coulda sworn that said something else.
linuxonline.org
So it's okay for *you* to go ahead and download from rasterman.com, but everyone *else* should wait for a mirror.
Practice what you preach, AC!
--
E 0.14 couldn't minimise. E 15 can. It also has root menu support. ... allow for a couple more functions that I thought were ANSI but turned out to be Microsoft specific.
I've had to
E is actually a pseudonym for the real name, Enlightenment - but I'm sure you knew that already, just informing the masses ;) ... allow for a couple more functions that I thought were ANSI but turned out to be Microsoft specific.
I've had to
hm. If it's not about the uptime, then what is it about? ... allow for a couple more functions that I thought were ANSI but turned out to be Microsoft specific.
I've had to
Posted by ladicius:
Changes to E are committed to the cvs dev tree almost every single day, this guy works his ass off on enlightenment.
Posted by FascDot Killed My Previous Use:
...the next total rewrite.
Posted by FascDot Killed My Previous Use:
Only for those people that watch Xena instead of taking showers.
For those who want to get it now try : http://thunderstorms.org/enlightenment-0.15.0.tar
G. Bevin
gbevin@thunderstorms.org
For those who want to get it now try
http://thunderstorms.org/enlig htenment-0.15.0.tar.gz. Be nice !
G. Bevin
gbevin@thunderstorms.org
Of course, this is also possible with WM + gnome support.
Please alter my pants as fashion dictates.
i found it annoying to try to use the gimp under
9wm, otherwise it did fit my whimsey for those
few days...
more wannabe bosses than hackers~ ^~
^~~^~^^~~^~^~^~^^~^^~^~^~~^^^~^^~~^~~~^~
Thanks, Raster - some awesome groove you got goin' on. Thanks also to the poster of the above message. Cut the guy some slack people - if you don't like E, don't use it. I don't, yet (but might use 15) but I think it is incredible.
Yes it now does iconification. It also does window shading, and it has a couple of small, clean although IMHO slightly boring looking themes provided in the distro as well. Its fast, stable, configurable, what more could you want.... :)
:-))
By the way, i'm a *tad* biased as i love E to death.
Iggy
Kids selling shoes for a living are putting out graphics programs, sound programs, and video programs like gang busters and this guy who works 14 hours a day at a real job on his program can't get but 1 release out in a year? People with jobs know how to get jobs. People without jobs know how to code.
I love these things..been runnin the CVS ver for a while now, and they are the funnest waste of cpu...they're just cute :)
-----
If Bill Gates had a nickel for every time Windows crashed...
I had a simmilar experience. Since finding the nograd (hand of god) theme a year or so ago, I switched from AfterStep to E (0.13). I then switched to 0.14 (much more stable) until I started using CVS 0.15. Anyway, a week or so ago I decided that I should give Window Maker another try, since it seems to be pretty popular. I'm sorry to say that:
a) opaque moves are SLOW
b) no opaque resize
c) I couldn't turn the root menus off to use gmc
d) desktop switching refreshes are slower too
e) no titlebars-on-the-side for terminals
Big deal, right? I dunno, these things fit my current usage style.
So it was back to E for me.
Debs of CVS snapshots have been out for a while..I think there's a link from e.themes.org, the latest one is just a few days old and so it should be almost 0.15 ;-) Anyway, I use it all the time and it's almost perfectly stable (not to mention being smaller and faster than wmaker! That was the one thing really keeping me from switching..)
I assume there'll be a "real" 0.15 in a day or two.
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
I have a P166, 48 MB of RAM, and (I believe) 4 MB of video RAM. E is still among the fastest WMs, and it feels like it uses less memory as well. (E-Mac theme, incredibly lightweight and pretty)
:-) )
The only thing I miss from WindowMaker is the ability to hold down Alt, click anywhere on a window, and drag it around. (and a lot of other things, but that's the big one.
Oh, and does anyone know whether Raster's ever going to [Guile] put a [Guile] scripting language in E? It would [Guile] make it about [Guile] five times more extensive and [Guile] not much slower (except maybe at startup). Of course, I [Guile] don't have any [Guile] preference as to which [Guile] interpreter he should use. [Guile Guile Guile]
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
Hmm. Funny, I have a P166 with 48 MB of RAM and E is easily one of the most responsive WMs on the system.
;-) Actually, there are three things that E needs:
And as for design..E doesn't _have_ any UI design. That's..um..the whole point...
UI design is the fault of the person who makes the theme you use.
The one thing that really needs to be fixed is the Gnome 'integration'. Raster? Do you hear me?
(a) Better Gnome integration
(b) Better handling of decorations and menus (let themes create multiple menus and open them anywhere, let themes open window menus)
(c) GIVE IT A SCRIPTING LANGUAGE! This is maybe the most important; as I understand it, the theming commands are already halfway there but a _real_ scripting language would be a godsend. Manipulating E menus as Scheme lists would be excellent.
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
Well, I don't have an Amiga..could you describe it please? :-) (or post a screenshot I suppose..)
[ looks at screen ]. Funny. I can read all my text. And I'm using a theme. Weird...
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
And they are bundling both in 6.0
... you appreciate specially the paintings with the pretty frames.
:-P
If you didn't notice, E only works outside of the windows, in the frames.
Beauty of an application must be something deeper
1) Get latest WM
2) Build it with KDE support
3) Use KPager.
You need run no other piece of KDE, no panel, no kfm, no nothing, and you get a extremely functional and pretty pager.
Enjoy!
If I downloaded KDE over the phone, counting phone fee+provider fee it would cost me about $35.
:-)
Thanks Shiva I don't!
I was thinking, "I havn't checked /. in a bit... time to check it out!"
and I found E! COOL!
da w00t. mtfnpy?
--
I got the screen real state, I got the memory, I got the CPU, I'll be fucked if I'm NOT going to put gargoyles in my Eterms. Got a problem? :-P
And I can't even remember being 14... In fact I can't even remember being 24.
"Be nice, veer left, and never stop thinking" Iain Banks - Walking On Glass
I run a 3x2 screen desktop, *without* a pager. (yeah, it's one massive desktop as opposed to many virtual desktops, but it does the same job). Pagers are a waste of screen space. I just bound a hotkey to flip pages, and that's it.
If you don't like pretty, definitely KDE is for you, because it's the damn ugliest thing I've seen since Win95. I'll be running E as soon as I can get the sucker to compile.
"Be nice, veer left, and never stop thinking" Iain Banks - Walking On Glass
Well... Ok, in that case, I guess you are right. I suppose I just wouldn't have the brains for a job that would require me to keep track of 50+ windows... :)
"Be nice, veer left, and never stop thinking" Iain Banks - Walking On Glass
*shrug*... I never cared much for drag-and-drop or any kind of desktop inter-application fancyness, but if you are a fan of that, I understand that E does work that way with GNOME... Not that I have the smarts to get GNOME to work on my SGI. I'll be lucky to get E alone running. :)
"Be nice, veer left, and never stop thinking" Iain Banks - Walking On Glass
You can get the OS/2 version of Enlightenment from http://r350.ee.nt u.edu.tw/~hcchu/os2/ports/xfree86/#enlightenment
--
Timur Tabi
Remove "nospam_" from email address
Freakin' gargoyles on an e-term? I suppose we were all 14 at one point.
If you don't like it, you can change it. That's sort of the point.
Jim Cape
http://www.jcinteractive.com
Jim Cape
http://www.jcinteractive.com
I tried E once. After dowloading what seemed like 7 different libraries to get it to run, I fled in horror when I realized it couldn't minimize windows yet.
However, when a
There is BrushedMetal-TigerT, Clean, and ShinyMetal, all of which are pretty basic/clean. Check e.themes.org for more.
Jim Cape
http://www.jcinteractive.com
Jim Cape
http://www.jcinteractive.com
I guess you're right. At least he knows that his code is too bad to release. I remember when I was learning to program, I had to rewrite things back then too.
So how many window managers and graphics libraries have you written?
Jim Cape
http://www.jcinteractive.com
Jim Cape
http://www.jcinteractive.com
Yeah, really, all you GNOME/KDE users ought to quit flaming one another over silly useless things like GNOME and KDE. All they do is eat up more horsepower anyways...
/dev/null, because I figure you *HAVE* to have something better to do than to continue flamewars and backbiting about GNOME and KDE, and which one is
So there. thppppppp!
Note: all flames go to
better/more free/better looking/better license etc...
There were already enlightenment 0.14 debs, and
Jules Bean has been making CVS E 0.15 debs that
work just fine. I believe they're at http://www.debian.org/~jules/
--
Kevin Doherty
kdoherty+slashdot@jurai.net
Kevin Doherty
kdoherty+slashdot@jurai.net
Its really quite an odd phenomenon, I often wonder if it s just a bunch of teenagers going through some bragging right of passage. At the moment I am using use a combo of e, gnome, and kde, and am
very happy with the results. The one thing that turned me on to Linux 3 years ago was the absolute freedom that one has to endlessly tweak and customize many window managers. As far as e
goes, my jaw dropped the first I saw it (which around dr 11 or 12) as it does today with the addition of gtk themes. Keep up the great work.
Especially since E has become rock solid lately. I have run AfterStep or WindowMaker until a month ago when I converted to E with tigert's BrushedMetal theme, its great!
The current FTP site is dead... anyone have a mirror?
Wow, this comes from someone who has likely never run E15. With the BrushedMetal, SimplE, or AbsoluteE themes, your desktop will look extremely usable. OR you could try out one of the two MacOS themes, since you seem to like the UI so much.
Think before you judge. E can be made as simple or as complicated as you like.
Hmm, strange. GNOME is pretty damn solid for me. Yes, it does crash sometimes, but it hasn't been in development as long as KDE. Plus, it is open source in the purest sense of the term. Who could ask for more? Give GNOME another few months to bug squash, and it will be nearly perfect.
On the subject of KDE. I find it grossly ugly, in every sense of the word. It looks like win95, even with its ugly themes turned on. QT is also C++ only. GTK/GNOME allow for much more flexibility and a more advanced architecture.
KDE has its place though. On the desktop of a Linux newbie. But even that place can easily be taken by GNOME given a little more development. GNOME is currently the desktop of the more advanced user.
im suprised.. this version of E is working quite nicely, contrary to what others may say. it compiled fine(except for sound, which i dont care about), and has been running quite well. now im just messing around with gnome, but no real complaints on this release. i used them all up on the daily-snaps. :)
--
scott miga
Enlightenment 15 has been avaible for a rather long time via the Gnome mirrors. I'm pretty sure it's NOT the offical version.
In order to configure E so that Alt-N switches to the N-th virtual desktop (which, in my mind, is highly desirable behavior), you need to download the separate package called enlightenment-conf and run e-conf. e-conf is highly flexible and lets you configure all manner of keyboard shortcuts.
sakura.aracnet.com/enlightenment-0.15.0.tar.gz
Be gentle.
--
As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
This version won't work with Imlib 1.9.4, it wants '1.8.2 or higher.'
WTF???
--
As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
A disease-based theme...
What a fantastic idea!
I'll start on it now!
--
As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
I tried E last night, and it was an absolute disaster. E itself worked alright, but I found it missing many functional aspects which Afterstep has. So I tried Gnome, and it crashed on me left and right. That meant no pager. What's thet point of virtual desktops without pagers? Talk about resource consumption. Eterm and Enlightenment took twice as much memory as Aterm and Afterstep, respectively. What a bunch of hype. I'll stick with Afterstep and KDE (who really needs desktop icons, anyway?) I want my desktop to work, not be pretty.
run a 3x2 screen desktop, *without* a pager. (yeah, it's one massive desktop as opposed to many virtual
desktops, but it does the same job). Pagers are a waste of screen space. I just bound a hotkey to flip pages, and
that's it.
Hmm...no pager may not be inconvenient for a 3x2 desktop, but what about 4 3x3 desktops? When I'm working, I typically end up with anywhere from 50+ windows open. It's nice to remember where each of them are and be able to drag & drop any window one desktop to another (especially when they're often more than 8 desktops away from one another). So, I call it a necessity.
I have to admit Axel, I'm with you. Qt is a very nice, well designed toolkit - the documentation is absolutely outstanding. Now for all the folks who are just about wetting their pants to post back and say "Qt sucks" I feel obliged to point out that I will be happy to entertain such rants so long as you fill in the following sentence: "Qt sucks - I know this because I have written [X] lines of code using it". My prediction? [X] will be zero for all Qt flamers to follow.
there are two kinds of people in this world - those who divide people into two groups and those who don't
e is super sexy.. just because it causes machines that have uptimes of 200 days to have uptimes of 200 minutes.. its worth it =)
Victoria Palmer - I brake for unix.boys, Windows just breaks. - http://www.escape.com/~juliet
the "real" scripting language being scheme would be a nightmare. let's try something a little more realistic like letting you use any language. :)
sounds better to me. I hate scheme, I'll always hate scheme, raster will always hate scheme, so don't count on a scheme-implementation
As far as letting you script, with 0.16 you should be able to completely control everything via IPC, which should satisfy everyone's desire to script things.
--
Geoff Harrison (Mandrake) - http://mandrake.net
Geoff "Mandrake" Harrison
Some Random UI Hacker
I thought that's what I was implying by stating that you will be able to control everything via IPC? you can use whatever programming language you want to for scripting for that.
As far as full integration with gnome - I don't want to ever force someone to run GNOME to run E. There are too many requirements as is for us to do that...
As far as CORBA is concerned - *shrug* right now we're using x messages to do all the IPC which means we already gain secure connections (ssh encrypted sessions anyone?) and authentication (if your x server is unlocked you're already dead, we don't really open you up any more than you already are *grin*). We're not forcing you to have any more libraries than xlib installed for the IPC.
--
Geoff Harrison (Mandrake) - http://mandrake.net
Geoff "Mandrake" Harrison
Some Random UI Hacker
Actually, I should have noticed the date thing. :)
especially since I have the date plastered all the hell all over my screen on all my prompts, and every time I do a CVS commit I use "date" to tag the ChangeLog
--
Geoff Harrison (Mandrake) - http://mandrake.net
Geoff "Mandrake" Harrison
Some Random UI Hacker
actually, all the releases that redhat put out with the gnome release was pre-release quality stuff of enlightenment
--
Geoff Harrison (Mandrake) - http://mandrake.net
Geoff "Mandrake" Harrison
Some Random UI Hacker
no offense, but 0.14 wasn't the version you were
supposed to run with GNOME. as far as uptime problems, if you can give me a backtrace of whatever it is on your system (do you have your libraries installed properly) that is causing things to drop all the time, I'd be more than willing to fix it. As far as 0.12 goes, there isn't any code from before 0.14 still remaining in enlightenment, it was all written from scratch for that release. Please get your facts straight before you post next time (but then you are an anonymous coward so I suppose you're not embarassing yourself)
--
Geoff Harrison (Mandrake) - http://mandrake.net
Geoff "Mandrake" Harrison
Some Random UI Hacker
First off, I can't believe that I actually have to post a message like this out there. But I'll basically put it out there plain and simple: If you don't like E, don't use it. There's tons of FUD out there about enlightenment, people like to bash on enlightenment, etc. No better than people liking to bash on KDE or GNOME or what-have-you. But let's be honest here people - who cares? You don't like it, use something else. You're not going to hurt my feelings. I hardly think anyone should resort to the insult-level about it, though. I read a few select replies to this message through here about different things - :) Do the math - wondering why your X server jumps up in memory? 1600x1200x3 bytes of memory PER BACKGROUND. turn on shm in imlib and E and share the same background on a bunch of desktops. use tiled backgrounds, etc... otherwise you're asking for the trouble :)
:)
"just eyecandy, no features" is something that's very common up there. Granted, there are a lot of things that are still missing from enlightenment - obviously there are, or it wouldn't have a "0" as the major revision number, eh? *grin* However a lot of people say there are no features without knowing what's really there. Enlightenment isn't all just eye-candy. that's just what it's known best for. There are a lot of features in the 0.15 release.
"bloat bloat bloat" is another fairly well repeated comment that I see people tossing out there - my response to that is if we give you the mechanism to toss tons of graphics in their, it's your job not to abuse it. I'm not in the business of keeping you from over-decorating your desktop to obscenity, but don't blame me for those 12 1600x1200 24bpp background images you want to have on each of your desktops
I read another ocmment about how there was 9 months inbetween releases of enlightenment. First off I'd like to point out that up to this point no one has been paid to spend all their time working on enlightenment. and even then on top of that, there are almost-daily snapshots that have been being released of enlightenment for lord knows how long. if a release every other day isn't enough I suppose you can always use cvs updating to get a little more current. if you think that by complaining you can rush out buggier versions that no one working on them is comfortable releasing as a supported version of enlightenment, then guess again. Full releases of enlightenment are fairly sparse because no one wants to put crap out there. I know at least personally I have spent the last week or more ironing out bugs in various things, trying my damnedest to break things so that it wouldn't break on someone else. Raster has, too. Contrary to popular belief these days there's a little concern into what goes out to the public.
Anyways, I'm going to step off the soapbox for a bit. Back to my original point, if you don't like enlightenment, that's cool. there are tons of great alternatives to it out there. run windowmaker (raster and I sat met alfredo last week at LinuxWorld and he's a pretty cool guy, if not a bit quiet) - it's pretty slick if that's what you like. Anyways... I expect to get flamed for this by both enlightenment folks and non-enlightenment folks -- but I just felt like speaking my mind about this for a bit
--
Geoff Harrison (Mandrake) - http://mandrake.net
Geoff "Mandrake" Harrison
Some Random UI Hacker
... that Redhat wants to pitch Linux to the world using E as their WM! I think GNOME is a great choice for their desktop, but E is just an awful WM for people that want to get into Linux. Rasterman is paying more attention to nifty eye-candy than FUNCTIONALITY.
I really think it would be in Redhat's interests to bundle GNOME with a (brand new?) WM based on FUNCTIONALITY, not EYE-CANDY. E is just a goofy WM for people that think their desktop should be an "adventure" full of transparent xterms, gargoyles, and ripples. Think about it: do you seriously think that the suits will buy into Linux if this wacky WM is the first thing they encounter? E is NOT the kind of WM you can imagine seeing on a workstation.
Please Redhat, think about finding a new default GNOME WM.
What do you need to do this? I can't get it to work.
i did not know that :)
i could have sworn it was March 12th
but what do i know? i just came through one of those quantum portals that my da works on in his spare time in the basement. God alone knows what universe i am in now.
Its spelt "L-I-N-U-X", but pronunced as "Free Beer"
I think the post got criticized not only because it lacked constructive criticism, but because it was an unnecessary personal insult to the developer(s), whether or not what was said was true.
There are much better ways to handle your disappointment, in my opinion, than to simply knock people down for what they worked on very hard.
http://e.themes.org/Enlightenment/progs/enlightenm ent-0.15.0.tar.gz
I like the other girl more, I forget her name, but she's been her sidekick in a few shows.
:-)
Shrug.
It takes a really big man to post something like that anonymously.
*Sarcasm mode off*
I! Tego Arcana Dei.
Instead of worrying about embedding a scripting language, how about just exposing some of E's internals via CORBA? That lets people like me: :)
:) I dunno what IPC mechanism you're talking about but I pray it's CORBA :)
* Actually integrate E with the rest of GNOME, which seems like a good idea seeing as the GNOME team gets wood every time E is mentioned and may or may not be aware that other window managers actually exist
* Let me use whatever scripting language I want -- Perl, guile/scheme/lisp/fill-in-variant-here, hell, even C or Java. Writing an E configuration applet would be fun. I sure as hell don't want to be tied into someone else's idea of the One True Language, and I thought flexibility was what E was all about.
* Keep the overhead in the E binary down (assuming the scripting language was statically linked), not to mention keeping the library requirements down (who wants to install Foo Bar Guile Lib or whatever when they already have ORBit installed as part of gnome?)
You all can feel it. It's just The Right Thing To Do. If this isn't being done already, it really needs to be done. If this is being done, it needs to be published
Nothing worth doing is worth doing today.
Yet everyone forgets how Win98 crashed on Billy-boy. It seems MS-MindWipe98 is working.
"What do you mean, invalid parameters? 9000Gigs of RAM and it can't answer a simple question!" -- Earthworm Jim
Make sure caps/numlock are both off and just do alt + desk(x). Or use ctrl + alt + left or right arrow to scroll between desktops. You can use the dragbar at the top to expose an underlying desktop and drag applications to other desktops. Remember, E supports up to 32 desktops, but possibly only 1 is enabled by default (run e-conf to set that stuff up and more). Also there is a pretty nice help system that explains all the crazy things that E does. Also use e-conf to tune down some of the eye candy if your system cant handle it.
Hey! ;^)
I thought I was the only one who liked wm2!
Nothing like having to recompile to change your preferences, heheheh.
I think themes.org should have a wm2 section... instead of themes we could use diff patches
wmx is kinda cool too, with the root menu made up the contents of a directory instead of a text file... one thing I DO like about MSWindows.
.
COCAINE!
mmm, those tasty white granules have no power over
the insane high from E0.15
E, is your computer on crack!!
roll it up, light it up, hack it up.
D. Alan Hurst
Apart from the redraw problems, the sloppy interface design, the godawful ergonomics, the slow response times on a PII/400, the counterintuitive bundled widgets and the poor "integration" with GNOME, E sure is coming along.
I want to like it, I really do. I want GNOME and E to be a better high-usability desktop than KDE because Qt dependence is Wrong and GPL widget libraries are Right.
But it's Just Not Usable. Stability will come. Speed probably will, too. But someone should have shooed a few cooks out of the kitchen when it came to design, because it's a mess in there.
KDE is bland. KDE is Bad for Free Software. KDE is breathtakingly, unambiguously, seamlessly usable in a way that no Unix GUI has ever been. Not NeXT, not CDE, not nothing.
What versions of E & gnome were you using? I have been using gnome-1.0 + E 0.15 snapshots for a while, and it has been pretty stable.
It does use some memory, but that could have more to do with the themes I am using...
--Rob
wm2.
And you can't have her, cause she's mine.
----------------------
There is no K5 cabal.
I am not the real rusty.
I'm right-handed, so to be able to keep my hand on the mouse and navigate desktops easily, I bound left-handed hotkeys-- ALT-` to switch desktops left and ALT-1 to switch right. ALT-Q and ALT-TAB cycle through windows, ALT-A gives me the apps menu and ALT-W gives me the windows menu.
Once you become accustomed to them, it's a very efficient system. Not to mention that when you enable sloppy focus on the mouse, you get to watch windroids stare totally helplessly at the screen, having no idea how to do anything. It's very amusing. :)
"Ack! Where did the window go??!! Where's the menu? What do I do with all these big squares on the right??!" Hehehehehe
----------------------
There is no K5 cabal.
I am not the real rusty.
Hrm.. I just wonder how many of you have actually
:)
tried to use E past the 'hey this key doesnt work! suck!' -phase? It is not your afterstep. it is not windowmaker. it is not fvwm2. I have used all of those, and I have enjoyed most of them.
I recently switched to use Gnome and Enlightenment. Try the E-mac theme from e.themes.org, it is very nice and clean. also make sure you install e-conf so you can configure your familiar keyboard shortcuts to work in E.
I am surprized, since E is not that bloat anymore.
The amount of bloat is very nuch dependendt of the theme used.
I mean it has been much slower and it crashed quite often before. But I have used it for about one and a half weeks in _real work_ stuff and it hasnt crashed. (No, I dont restart X every morning)
Also, I think E and icewm have the most gnome support implemented so I can really drag urls from my netscape to the desktop and thus save bookmarks.. whee!
Like someone mentioned above, we need to remember E is raster's freetime project. He is paid by redhat to work on gnome, but E is his private game.
Since you bothered to read this far, check out my screenshot too.
My $1..
You need to be running the filemanager (gmc) so there is something that accepts those drags
I am not saying that making your screen look like Quake increases productivity or is 'cool' but I just wonder _if_ nobody cares for themes, why do places like themes.org and winamp skin stuff get so much hits? :) Why are we always drooling for screenshots when there is a new app in town?
I guess it is something like you want to show you can control the computer and thus make it look different. "This is my computer and I can do what I want" - maybe it is the same freedom that makes people use open-source software. Like "nobody is gonna tell ME what my desktop shall look like"..
Of course this has nothing to do with 'good' or 'bad' interface, there are good themes (I use the E-mac theme for E - it is pretty clean and nice - which is, again, my opinion), and there are always not that good themes - like with all things in this world.
Basically themes are not a 'gui'. They are just pretty wrapping over the real interface - it is more like if the application has weird interface you cant make it more intuitive with themes - or the opposite. The gui dont change - it still has the same widgets and layout - it just may look different. (Ok, some mp3 players have themable GUI too, but IMHO that is a bit different thing - if we are talking of word processors and such things - in general you dont change the gui with themes)
..and as always, this is just my view from my sandbox ;)
'OK' sets everything you just did in the dialogue box, and closes it.
'Apply' sets everything you just did, but doesn't close the box. (Non-modal dialogue boxes.)
'Close' closes the box without setting anything.
The best system is like this...
[ Apply ] [ Revert ]
[ OK ] [ Cancel ]
I believe the concepts involved originated on NeXT, not Windows, and they were copied.
Despite what many people think, it isn't necessary to have animated toolbars, high-resolution, full-colour bitmaps for everything, illegible 'themes'... A good user interface is logical, friendly, simple but powerful. Contrast Papyrus (Atari word-processor) with Microsoft Word.
Ford Prefect
Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?
User interface design does not mean pretty graphics. A good user interface can look very basic, but if it is designed properly that is irrelevant. KDE has the best user interface under Linux I've found so far - it's all arranged fairly logically, and reading a manual isn't really necessary. I don't want two or three 'panels' taking up valuable screen estate with all their icons and dockable applets, I want to start programs. I don't want pretty little icons on the menus, I want standardised keypresses and functioning drag and drop. I don't want memory-consuming, network-choking themes, I want usable applications.
I dislike almost all these 'themes' available (for E, Gnome, KDE, Win95...) - text generally becomes illegible, and often almost painful to read. Some themes (such as the BrushedMetal one for Gnome and E) look extremely nice, but still aren't too comfortable on the eyes. If you really think a system is usable, try producing a large, complex document or program without the pretty pictures driving you to distraction.
Does Linus use themes?
Ford Prefect
Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?
Maybe I was a bit harsh at first. A couple of the themes I've seen for Gnome and E look wonderful, while a lot of them really would cause eyestrain. But again, the flashy graphics are irrelevant unless the underlying user interface design is sound. Of course, if the user interface and the graphics are good, then you've got a pretty good program.
A possible killer-application addition to Gnome might be the ability to redesign user interfaces without fiddling with the source code. I don't know how it might be done, or if it would be practical, but it would be amazing if it were possible. Don't like the arrangement of buttons in a dialogue box? Change them! Want a different menu bar? Toolbar? Want to translate the program to another language, but have little programming experience*?
Ford Prefect
* I haven't really used Gnome much (I'm waiting for stability to improve a little, as I did with Linux 2.2) so this feature may already be available. I think KDE has something like it.
Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?
Pivo's first rule for backing up an arguement:
condescending remarks.
When I was in high school, I would have torn someone apart if they debated like that. It proves that the person who made the comments had no fortitude behind the arguement.
um.... you do realize that it's still MARCH, right?
Wow, I just noticed after reading your post that you can drag URLs from netscape, that is freaking cool.
PS. You rock tigert I love your artwork.
FiGZ.COM - A waste of perfectly good web space
Can someone give a little more details about what E is missing than "Functionality"? I use E as my windowmanager and it does just about everything. I can use dockable apps, iconify, shade, have multiple desktops. It even moves the windows the best I've seen, stopping for an amount of pixels before going over another window. I also think that pagers can be implimented by the theme makers too, I dont know why you would want one though.
Considering E could probably clone the look and feel of any window manager I dont know what you are talking about. All I can think of is you havent even tried it and just need something to bitch at. That has to be the lamest excuse though.
If you actually have a real problem with missing functionality and say what it is I`ll STFU.
FiGZ.COM - A waste of perfectly good web space
Right click on the titlebar go: Window Size > Size > Available Max Size Toggle.
Should work, explore the other things in there too.
FiGZ.COM - A waste of perfectly good web space
That aside, having looked at my own work habits I agree that E probably ought not be the "banner bearing" wm.
Initially (the 0.13, 0.20 releases, anyhow) it looked like they'd go with FVWM2. I was cool with that. They even provided a nice theme to show what you could do with something I'd previously associated with a bad Win Explorer knock-off.
In the end it doesn't matter: GNOME dox are perfectly up front about being able to change wm's, state that GNOME is (conceptually) wm agnostic, and a menu is provided to change wm's once GNOME is brought up the first time.
I think the Linux-on-the-desktop issue is going to be resolved in part by the efforts of workplace advocates, not solely shrinkwrapped packages. We're just going to have to earn our advocacy spurs by ensuring that if Linux desktop machines are implemented in our workplaces, our coworkers get good guidance on all the choices they have. And we'll have to save the gargoyles and flaming wallpaper for lunch break.
Sorry. That was a real digression from the original point. I don't get near the GNOME/window manager discussions too often, so I've got a lot pent up.
----------
mphall@cstone.nospam.net
----------
mphall@cstone.nospam.net
"A horse laugh is worth a thousand syllogisms"
I'm not positive (haven't used it for a while), but I believe it was CTRL+ALT+F* (F1, F2, etc.).
If I remember right, CTRL+ALT+INSERT launched an E-Term. There were quite a few nice default key bindings. They were all listed in the included Help.
You're right, that would be rather stupid. Sorry 'bout that. It's near the end of the day. I'm tired. It is ALT+F*.
:)
I swear, using NT kills brain cells. Dulls the senses. Synapses lapse.
Maybe it'll all come back to me after I get back home in front of my own box.
Been keeping an eye on E and using it from time to time for a long time now. It was actually the first thing I downloaded on my first linux box almost 2 years ago, about 10 minutes after I finally got it to boot. :)
:) Thanks for the present!
It's come a long way. Regardless of what some may be saying about speed, stability, or whatever... I don't think they've tried it. I'm impressed. It can be loads of eye candy for those that want it, or stripped down to bare minimum for max functionality. And configured however the hell we want. I love it. Keep it up.
Also... that date on your page. Today is Friday, March 12, not 11. I should know, it's my birthday.
Can't forget that... that's my second BSOD for the day. I really need to turn in.
nice screenshots, dude!
i'd show you mine but i think yours will kick mine's ass. i'm running kde, didn't do much extra stuff except for get as many icons as i could from themes.org.
as for e, it looks pretty but from what i've heard, it doesn't seem too stable. however with screenshots like you've posted, i may just stick with kde and run window maker for the wm.
thanks for posting those.
Check the latest rawhide -- it's got both, which means that 6.0 will have both.
QT is also C++ only. GTK/GNOME allow for much more flexibility and a more advanced architecture.
You don't know shit about programming GUI toolkits, do you?
Try both, then talk.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
Um, actually, it's March.
Though I wish this were April 11. That's my 21st birthday! Woo hoo!
So I'm sittin' here, trying to download the 0.15 files, and my download is currently running at 0.41 kbps. .
If someone could *mail* me the files, I could mirror them at . Send mail to davidhand@davidhand.com.
Thanks in advance.
So I'm sittin' here, trying to download the 0.15 files, and my download is currently running at 0.41 kbps. .
If someone could *mail* me the files, I could mirror them at ftp://davidhand.com/. Send mail to davidhand@davidhand.com.
Thanks in advance.
I remember when I first got acquainted with Linux. I bought Red Hat 4.2, and was looking through some of the documentation. As a Windows emigre, I was truly baffled. At one point, I began to give up.
Then, one day at work, I happened across www.rasterman.com. I'd never seen anything so cool in my life. It reinvigorated me, and eventually I had a Linux install.
Now that I am more experienced with Linux, I still love Enlightenment. Thank you Raster, thanks Mandrake, for keeping up the work on a truly cool window manager.
At least the parts I haven't eaten yet
E, with its eyecandy themes and less useful funcationality is the real desktop for users. It might attract people to Linux/X, but once they've tried it they'll switch to a WM that lets them concentrate on what they need to do. E is lame.
You're upset. I understand. I remember when I was a child and I learned Santa Claus didn't exist (oops, I hope I haven't spoiled anything for you!) Anyway, it is hard when someone points out that what you think you know is all wrong. It's ok, there there, that's it, let it all out. Maybe if you talk to mommy and dady they can talk you through this. Maybe they'll give you a lollypop!
I guess you're right. At least he knows that his code is too bad to release. I remember when I was learning to program, I had to rewrite things back then too.
Windows 98 is slow and has too much bloat.
KDM is slow and has too much bloat.
Gnome is slow and has too much bloat.
Window Maker is slow and has too much bloat.
I like yeoldewm from 1985, it's quick!
No flame, but perhaps the overhead involved in creating a full featured UI is just too much "bloat" for some people. Maybe you can't have your cake and eat it too.
--
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
baaaaaaaah.... :P
real men compile *grin*
-Gouki
-dk
Dream with the feathers of angels stuffed beneath your head.
Poor bastard. I'm hooked up pretty much constantly with ISDN and I pay a flat rate per month (for both the line and the ISP).
Poor bastard...
It is used for displaying images from a variety of formats, like GIF, PNG, JPEG, etc. It has a standard interface to the different formats, and lets a bunch of display settings like gamma correction and contrast be set globally.
"It may be remarked in passing that success is an ugly thing. Men are deceived by its false resemblences to merit."
What's wrong with liking gargoyles? How is that having the mind of a 4 year old? Not everyone goes for a bussiness looking desktop, some of us want our desktop's to look pretty.
-matt
Ahh, the joys of OS/2. I must say that yes, perhaps Linux is only free if your time has no value, but where does that leave OS/2?
--jon. Postel is dead. May we all mourn his, and our, loss.
I like eye candy sometimes, and I like minimalism sometimes. I've been known to use no window manager at all at times.
I need to get uwm and compile it for my systems. icewm is excellent for battered-spouse OS/2 users like myself who can't kick the click-to-focus habit.
--jon. Postel is dead. May we all mourn his, and our, loss.
Could installing themes reasonably be any easier? Put the theme in your ~/.enlightenment/themes directory, run e-conf, pick the theme you just downloaded and caboom.
Gnome crashes, I never got them. But then again, I hear sometimes that this actually does happen to people.
I know I will be moderated down for this, but . . . Vincent
How? I can tell you that after messing with it for a little while, I found it un-intuitive, and not worth the trouble of learning. I still have it, but learning how to use a windowing envirement all over again seems like a waste of time, certainly more than using a few window boarders.
E seems as functional as most other WM's. I was suprised as the next guy after getting an E rpm, and finding out it is easy to install, configure, and not as machine hungry as I hear a lot.
I know I will be moderated down for this, but . . . Vincent
Il admit, I don't, but there are reasons he said what he said. Mainly, the flexibility in language thing, hes damn right. I know Qt has a few language bindings, but that is nothing compared to gtk. That seems to be proof enough that gtk is more flexible with languages.
I know I will be moderated down for this, but . . . Vincent
If you just wan't simple, why don't you go with the defualt theme. It is a simple windows like theme. Very clear. Question:have you used E, like recently? I might have thought this about E, but after using it I changed my mind. Its not all about gothic junk on thw windows boarder. Hell, Kwm has themes, I don't see that being used against it.
As far as intuitive, almost every linux "user interface", from gnome's to afterstep can be used without a manual. They all behave mostly like windows. The big exeption would be WindowMaker.
I know I will be moderated down for this, but . . . Vincent
Minimization has been fixed for a couple months now at least.
Q.
Actually, I'm thinking it will be a couple of months..at least if they are intelligent. Gnome 1.0 is pretty unstable still, but well on its way to being a good desktop. As far as the kernel, it needs some more hammering before it will be ready for showtime on the majority of systems. There are just too many issues still. I'm predicting RH 6.0 will come out in May. If they really wanted a good, stable release they'd wait until June or July, though. Oh, well, they'll learn.- ----------
-----------------------------------------
Jamin Philip Gray
jgray@writeme.com
http://students.cec.wustl.edu/~jpg2/
Celebrate the finer things in life
I swear, I've been sitting around thinking, "Hmm, I've gotta get Enlightenment going just for the heck of it, this FVWM2 stuff just doesn't have enough bells-n-whistles..." Well, what do I do? I _FINALLY_ get alllll the stuff I needed (had to upgrade and install a bunch of new libraries first off,) and I get it all running, I crank up Enlightenment for the first time, default setup, I decide to hit Slashdot, and THIS happens! GEZUUS! :-) I'll have to get it and waste some more time... :-) It's all fun... --Jason
Now, I wish I could GET GNOME to even compile! I swear, I've never had such a hard time... I had to (again) install tons of new libraries, and such, and heck, with just trying to configure the gnome-libs package, it always ended up crying about me having an old version of libz somewhere. I've scoured my system, and I only have version 1.1.3 of libz in one location, which should be fine, and bla bla bla bla bla...
:-)
I finally said forget it, I need to work on more important things, like getting my printer working.
--Jason
Mandrake, Raster and all the other E developers,
/. Most of those posts are either from trolls or true to life cowards that have nothing better to do than bitch. I hate to say it but a good part of them have no business using E because E is not idiot proof, and that is just what most of them are, idiots. I have no respect for someone that flames something that they probably have not even tried. I'm sure some really have tried E and didn't like it. If they don't like it, like you said, use something else, suggest improvements to the developers, and go elsewhere. It's simple as that.
/. is it is very easy to voice your opinions. Keep in mind that those posts are from a very small, very vocal, minority of the Linux users out there. I used to get upset and reply to these posts and I know it's hard when the posts get personal. But the only way to stop these posts is to ignore them. Don't feed the trolls.
Please do not get discouraged by any of the inflamatory posts you see here on
I guess the good and bad thing about
Thanks for your hard work and dedication. E is a great WM. Looking forward to watching the commits on CVS.
-dubbs
I just spent this morning installing E and GNOME from scratch. I love 'em!
I'm running an i586 200 mhz, 32 mb ram, 2 mb pci trident vid card, and speedwise it's good.
E themes are absolutely incredible.. you can really change the whole look and feel! GNOME apps like the calendar and Balsa? I couldn't live with out them.
C'mon lamers.. enough with the "E is unstable!" "GNOME won't compile!"
If you use your brain and RTFM, you can install and run them both just fine. (I did it from scratch on an older RedHat based box today for the first time)
And if you don't like E or GNOME, great! Linux is all about freedom and choice. Use what you like, but don't knock other window managers and desktop environments.
[ Aaron Shaver ] [ ultravoid@usa.net ]
Aaron J. Shaver - aaronshaver@yahoo.com "Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do." --Bertrand Russel
Not to mention Mandrake, one of Enlightenment's co-developers, bailed on the project recently to run his own business. That was a serious loss of development talent.
I think Rasterman is doing pretty damn good for just one guy.
Is what we need... Slashdot just mirrors the sites that it is going to slashdot so they are not slashdoted...
August
Can someone give me a "gzip -l" of the EVERYTHING file??
They should also put up an EVERYTHING_E_RPM version.
There's gotta be a theme named "coli", right?
(Sorry - a year of microbiology and I'm ruined for life.)
-- Alastair
Please RTFM.
I use Ctrl-Alt-[left]|[right] or Alt-F#
Works fine.
Best regards,
Steen Suder
Best regards,
Steen Suder
-- for email: send to
Well, that's the nice thing about this OSS thing... You're free to make your own choice!
I install KDE on most of my newbie friends computers, but I still use E/Gnome at my own station.
I simply like it better, even though it's not up to standards regarding stability yet.
Perhaps someone is right saying they (the E dev. team) could do more releases to keep pacing development.
What they all say:
Release early and release often!
Best regards,
Steen Suder
Best regards,
Steen Suder
-- for email: send to
Cut and paste from ftp://www.rasterman.com:
ftp://ftp.enlightenment.org/pub/enlightenment/
ftp://www.rasterman.com/pub/enlightenment/
ftp://ftp.freshmeat.net/pub/enlightenment/
http://technoir.nethead.org/
http://web.terminus.cicat.com/software/e/
ftp://ftp.hypertek.net/pub/enlightenment/
Best regards,
Steen Suder
Best regards,
Steen Suder
-- for email: send to
Alrighty, who's got a mirror?? Did anyone get this before it when down?
I just installed Enlightenment, got the RPM's off of one of the GNOME mirors. Try GNOME and Enlightenment together, it is prety impressive, although the whole layered desktop think seemed a little awkward.
I think I've got some pretty good luck, I was just getting ready to get the newest cvs version of E when I came and saw the slashdot posting. Too bad the servers have already been slashdotted.
Not to be nickpicky but anyone notice that on enlightenments's homepage in the download section it says that this new version was realized
"Friday April 11 1999"
umm its the 12th folks.. just hope they change that before it goes down in history incorrectly
Just put a link on my modest stock Caldera home page. Enjoy.