Slashdot Mirror
GNOME 1.0 Released
The illustrious Elliot Lee writes "GNOME 1.0 is now available for download. Please peruse the press release and then download it via a convenient FTP mirror (as soon as they sync up). " Update: 03/04 08:36 by J : Whoops - forgot to plug my own program!
If you've installed GNOME and want scrolling Slashdot headlines on your panel, check
under Panel Applets ->Amusements->SlashApp. Thanks John, Chris, Fred, and everyone else!
GNOME rules! Great work guys.
/BookerT
Hope it won't be too long until the .debs are out...
Neil Halelamien
This is great.
I haven't tried it since they jumped to the 0.99 series.
Is the printing arch. in place yet?
I assume so or it wouldn't say 1.0..
I liked gnumeric but it wasn't much good for me without printing...
I thought he was employed by Red Hat to do Gnome?
-- Erik Corry without his cookies
hi,
I followed all the 0.99.x tarballs quite closely and gnome works great for me...
It's stability is great... Some of the apps coming together are brilliant... Gnumeric is going to be the spreadsheet software of the future...
I fear a couple of important things might still be missing... like unified printing.. but apps can still print using standard unix lpr...
Gnome is a great system.. fully lpgled for software freedom..
I recommend checking it out today...
Congrats to the whole team for their great work. May we continue to surpass KDE in terms of popularity...
ta,
ws
Let's see. ftp.gnome.org is jammed, of course. I went to about four mirrors, and they either didn't have anything in the 1.0 directory or didn't even have a 1.0 directory at all.
On gnome.org, the directions for install that the press release linked to says "not done yet" and refer you to the old (horrible) instructions.
I hate to be a critic, but wasn't this announcement a bit premature? Couldn't you have at least given time for some of the mirrors to update so that when the great herd goes out for the software, they won't all have to constantly pound on the already beleagured ftp.gnome.org?
This doesn't feel very "1.0"...
---
Jason Eric Pierce
I use it with Window Maker, and they're very nice together. There are a several configuration features that go with Enlightenment (and they
make E easier to set up really) but overall, it probably doesn't matter what WM you use.
It gives WM a great pager by the way.
chente@hex.net
Too bad there's no MUI for linux. Gnome is ok, but MUI is excellent.
Gee, I hope it actually compiles and installs this time. Does anyone know if it works(easily) with gtk-themes?
Take a look at the bugs
I, for one, hope the list is just out of date and these bugs have been fixed...
Heaven forbid another desktop environment that actually ships a release with known bugs!
Uh.. the other ones have too genius. Anyway, I know i know the 0.99.8 had a theme chooser.
hehe you could consider all the GNOME developers volunteers. I saw this article from some RTP online mag that gave a range of what the RHAD Labs salaries were. hehe oh my, they are definately volunteering.
You're not talking about Magic User Interface that was popular for the Amiga, are you? Just checking...
In order for some features to work the wm must be "Gnome-aware". Enlightenment, Icewm, and Windowmaker (which is also KDE-aware) are the only Gnome-aware wms (that I know of).
Of course I haven't checked out Gnome in a while (I'm happy with KDE - Mac style menubar!) so flame me if I'm wrong.
wouldn't it be nice if every server could handle slashdot's volume? oh well, I'll wait a day or two..
Last time I tried GNOME, which was around 0.99.3 the help system was... not very good. Has this changed for the better in the last couple of weeks?
For a group that supposedly cares about substance not style, and reliability... Why does E suck so much?
Does anyone else have a problem with their ppp connection when using esd. Gnome starts, then I get massive numbers of errors on the ppp line, kill esd and its ok again.
Pity, cause I would love to use it
http://www.gnome.org/devel/gnome-libs-task-list.sh tml
Excel95 under WINE was significantly faster
the last time I ran it (0.3) -- i wonder
whether this is due to inefficiecy in
GNUmeric, GNOME or GTK??
Gee look, I'm logged in as "Matts". Funny thing, because I'm NOT MATTS!
..but I can't imagine its improved _that_ much since 0.99.3 that I'm using.
You're saying this before you've even tried it?
-----
"I know Linux is supposed to be a good OS, but it was created by some hacker in 1991, I can't imagine its improved _that_ much in just 8 years"
[written by some idiot]
Write it then. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth, this is free and a volunteer effort after all.
#419: Window clean-up rips off GNOME's drawers
;^)
I like that one best
--
Jason Eric Pierce
Heaven forbid another desktop environment that actually ships a release with known bugs!
I myself have never worked on a project in my entire career that wasn't released with known bugs. This isn't to say I've ever been on a team that released a project with serious known bugs.
I suspect that they were talking about the
1.0pre whatever thingy that I couldn't even
get to compile on EGCS 1.1.1 and GLIBC 2.0.7.
Ok, so I'm downing gtk+-1.2 now, but I'm wondering, does the latest Gimp use this (the only gtk-app I have on my system)?
But I can see the benifits of having a .deb: you can uninstall it easily when 1.0.1 pops out the door on Friday, for one. For two, perhaps he's one of these (gasp) computer newbies that doesn't quite get it yet. Or, perhaps, he has (gasp^2) better things to do than compile a GUI-enhancer.
Better things to do? Yeah, like reading slashdot... :)
Nope, no problem, as long as you tell people where to get the source. Thanks for the mirror!
There are no resolved ones either.
They must just not use critical
"GNOME is a giant step towards achieving the Free Software Foundation's goals of providing a whole spectrum of software for everyone from experts to end-users"
End-users cannot be Experts...
Why in the F should I want to compile everything? What ever happed to the good old whatever.EXE days.... sheesh!
DOS 3.4
No mention of PowerPC in the press release.
How long will we LinuxPPC users have to wait?
I gotta agree, E really sucks. Sure it's very configurable and you can make it to look really cool too. But out of the box E is so darn confusing to use. WindowMaker, or even good old Fvwm2, on the other hand are so clean and easy to use right after basic installation. My bet is that E need a week or so of tweaking the configuration before I will start to like it.
I'm sure the RHLabs "volunteers" will be
laughing when Redhat has their IPO
I am profoundly stirred...
Pass the bucket.
Pardon me for asking, but what is the fantastic "anti-aliased canvas display system"? Some workaround for the lack of anti-aliased font in X maybe?
GNOME uses GTK+-1.2, but it's ok. The old programs will still work, since you dont exactly install gtk+-1.2 'over' the old gtk, but rather beside it. /usr/local instead (to be really really sure:). The only mess you'll have is while compiling since you'll have to have only a single copy of header files during compilation. Then again, I find myself compiling for 1.0 fairly rarely these days.
Cant say I know how they've done it in the RPM versions, but personally I install the 1.2 stuff under
I imagine Windows 2000 will also be released at some high profile event when it's not quite ready yet too.
Remember it's not important that it's done right it's only important how good it looks!
I won't use it.
My system works fine with MWM. KDE and GNOME are
for newbies.
% kill -19 gnome ; kill -19 kde ; startx
If you can GET it to compile. ;-)
What is MUI like? Got any screenshots?
How do I get themes to work in GTK+ 1.2? I could get them working under 1.1.* with the gtk-engines package, but how do the themes work under 1.2?
Last night that damn thing pissed me off because it looks for gtk 1.1.x and if you have a -higher- version (e.g. 1.2.0) it won't compile. You can't imagine my elation as I played with autoconf...
There are PLENTY of Grave bugs...
You mean its windowslike compared to the KDE panel ????
...
Hmm, well, take a look at them and rethink about whats windowlike about the two
I have spent my entire afternoon looking my gnome.org's local mirror (www.uk.gnome.org) learning about it, now I'm half-way through getting 0.98.8 and you tell me 1.0 has just come out? I don't believe it. Happy? Of course, but could 1.0 have made it about 2 hours earlier? And please let sunsite...uk mirror it NOW. Please....
UK FTP mirror btw - ftp://sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk/pib/Mirrors/ftp.gnome.
>No mention of PowerPC in the press release.
>How long will we LinuxPPC users have to wait?
Unless they've forked the source by architecture, as soon as you compile the source I would guess.
blackbox isnt a gnome aware wm
You can have both gtk+ versions installed in paralell. Just be a bit careful with where you install them, and dont try to compile gimp 1.0 with the gtk+-1.2 header files.
Check out http://www.sasg.com/mui/preview.gif
Doesnt do it much justice though. Everything in MUI is customizable. You can for example have different textures on all the different gadget types. Prefs are global or local to a program. Customclasses are easy to implement, one of the most recent is a fully fledged html viewer class.
I like MUI better, but GNOME is ok too.
GIMP 1.0.1 works fine with GTK+1.2.0 here :)
...is that your sound card is configured to use the same irq as your serial port... Check /proc/interrupts and see if that's the case. If not, there's no way these things should even be related. Or does esd run suidroot and renice itself to eat mad cpu time or something...?
- RF (dfelker@cnu.edu)
Well, I hope it GETS AWARE real soon! I LOVE BlackBox! I'd **love** to see Blackbox with added support for GNOME, and stripped of that little CDE-style taskbox at the bottom (who needs it when there's the GNOME panel?). It would make for a KICKASS GNOME / really fast and lite window manager combination!!!
-Josh
...for not having ugly ``antialiased'' (blurred) fonts in X is to run as sufficiently high resolution. Yeah, d0ze newbs run at 640x480; unix users are expected to have X running at at least 1024x768 if using a 13-15" monitor, or at least 1280x960 if using a 17", etc.
- RF (dfelker@cnu.edu)
total 26982 ..
drwxrwxr-x 2 500 500 3072 Mar 2 23:09 .
drwxrwxr-x 7 500 500 1024 Mar 1 22:08
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 173298 Mar 1 16:22 GXedit-1.22-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 401292 Feb 27 23:45 ORBit-0.4.0-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 402595 Feb 27 23:45 ORBit-devel-0.4.0-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 82844 Feb 27 23:45 audiofile-0.1.6-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 30919 Feb 27 23:45 audiofile-devel-0.1.6-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 570765 Mar 1 21:51 control-center-1.0.1-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 14640 Mar 1 21:51 control-center-devel-1.0.1-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 169628 Feb 27 23:45 ee-0.3.8-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 3032258 Mar 2 23:09 enlightenment-0.15.0-36.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 171210 Mar 2 23:09 enlightenment-conf-0.14-3.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 71249 Feb 27 23:45 esound-0.2.8-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 16172 Feb 27 23:45 esound-devel-0.2.8-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 325930 Mar 2 19:40 fnlib-0.4-4.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 15368 Mar 2 19:40 fnlib-devel-0.4-4.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 346676 Mar 2 19:40 freetype-1.1-6.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 66413 Mar 2 19:41 freetype-devel-1.1-6.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 68065 Mar 1 16:32 gdm-1.0.0-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 134906 Mar 1 16:18 gedit-0.5.1-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 5751 Mar 1 16:18 gedit-devel-0.5.1-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 54474 Mar 1 16:23 gftp-1.12-2.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 119277 Feb 27 23:45 glib-1.2.0-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 106770 Feb 27 23:45 glib-devel-1.2.0-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 792628 Mar 1 22:12 gmc-4.5.23-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 133265 Mar 1 22:18 gnome-admin-1.0.1-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 1700004 Mar 2 15:48 gnome-core-1.0.1-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 38882 Mar 2 15:49 gnome-core-devel-1.0.1-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 3416599 Mar 2 00:11 gnome-games-1.0.1-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 18184 Mar 2 00:12 gnome-games-devel-1.0.1-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 806159 Mar 1 21:31 gnome-libs-1.0.1-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 891307 Mar 1 21:32 gnome-libs-devel-1.0.1-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 414414 Mar 1 22:59 gnome-media-1.0.1-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 163501 Mar 1 23:24 gnome-network-1.0.1-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 163709 Mar 1 21:40 gnome-objc-1.0.1-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 153289 Mar 1 21:40 gnome-objc-devel-1.0.1-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 277116 Mar 2 19:23 gnome-pim-1.0.1-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 18494 Mar 2 19:27 gnome-pim-devel-1.0.1-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 358416 Mar 1 22:59 gnome-utils-1.0.1-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 74573 Mar 1 16:29 gnotepad+-1.0.8-2.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 3019406 Feb 27 23:47 gnumeric-0.15-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 92732 Mar 1 16:27 gqview-0.5.1-2.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 142951 Mar 1 22:55 gsl-0.3b-2.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 802302 Feb 27 23:47 gtk+-1.2.0-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 909447 Feb 27 23:47 gtk+-devel-1.2.0-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 522827 Feb 27 23:47 gtk-engines-0.5-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 115734 Mar 1 23:05 gtop-1.0.1-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 357520 Feb 27 23:47 guile-1.3-2.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 288065 Feb 27 23:47 guile-devel-1.3-2.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 554572 Feb 27 23:48 imlib-1.9.4-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 301554 Feb 27 23:48 imlib-cfgeditor-1.9.4-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 929842 Feb 27 23:48 imlib-devel-1.9.4-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 32944 Feb 27 23:48 libghttp-0.99.2-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 16057 Feb 27 23:48 libghttp-devel-0.99.2-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 134067 Mar 1 22:47 libgtop-1.0.1-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 73346 Mar 1 22:48 libgtop-devel-1.0.1-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 251424 Mar 1 22:48 libgtop-examples-1.0.1-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 56929 Feb 27 23:48 libxml-1.0.0-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 44073 Feb 27 23:48 libxml-devel-1.0.0-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 411315 Mar 1 22:13 mc-4.5.23-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 16070 Mar 1 22:13 mcserv-4.5.23-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 393570 Mar 2 20:08 pygnome-1.0.0-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 578930 Mar 2 20:08 pygtk-0.5.11-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 86454 Feb 27 23:49 xchat-0.9.1-1.i386.rpm
-rw-r--r-- 1 500 500 1483677 Mar 2 18:09 xscreensaver-3.07-1.i386.rpm
There are FAQs around that explain this, it can be done. Sorry, I don't remember how myself. But it's out there. :-)
"but there's one thing expected of point-oh releases - stability."
.0 release" (Hey, MS hasn't had a non .0 release in a while, just goes to prove it).
Uhm, doesn't that go against the tried and true rule of Production systems: "Never install a
Oracle 7.0.2.3
Oracle 7.3.4.3
Win 3.1
OS/2 2.1
RedHat 5.1
Debian 2.1
HPUX 10.10
.0 releases are not generally perfect, it is the first time they go from beta to full release, and no matter how much testing you do, 7 million people hitting it will find new bugs you would never have guessed about.
Name me a product which had it's initial release be production ready.
-- Keith
It doesn't sound to me like GNOME is quite ready for the mainstream, and I find it hard to believe after using it myself just a month ago..
I'll wait for a release that's aimed less at being on the LinuxWorld wave.. and that's more stable.
Meanwhile, I'll stick with my reliabe KDE 1.1
Hmmm,
IMO The start bar was the only good thing that M$ did for win9X, and the panel is _SUPER_ configurable compared to the M$ Start Menu.
Just another example of Linux incorporating only the good parts of other OS's to help draw desktop users.
--J Ferrell
goto #gnome on efnet for help/party.
when i saw the front page, i thought it said
"Release without a Condom"
as opposed to
"Release without a Codename"
maybe it was just the wierdness of all their past codenames..
but its pretty stable for a new product, not for everyone, but ive been using GNOME+E for months now with little problem...
1.0 = "1.oh fuck it crashed!" I downloaded it, installed it on a fresh redhat 5.1 installation. It took me less than five minutes before the panel crashed on me. Not only did it crash, I had to delete .gnome* and .e* from my home directory before panel or enlightenment would even start again. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee... even windows has a better track record than this! Haven't these guys ever heard of 1.0pre or 1.0 beta. This is going to give people new to linux a VERY BAD first impression. Tsk, Tsk and for shame, gnome people.. you jumped the gun bigtime on this one.
Have you any proof of what you're writing? If you don't, you're libelous (& stupid).
At least I've seen Miguel at work in Mexican National University.
I 'read' in 'some' that 'salaries' yadayadayda...
If you at least knew that Miguel can't earn more than $1000 / Mo in his Univerity position... then, watever that RH paid would be barely enough.
Or in pure mexican spanish:
"Abres la boca a lo pendejo"
kde doesnt appear ms derived??
anyways i hate the gnome panel myself. You would think since gnome is supposed to be window manager independent there would be no reason for a damn panel the window manager should have its own way of doing the things the panel does.
I used E15 with RedHat, fast, stable without sound. Since I switch to Debian, the fvwm2 deb package is so good looking that I can even forget E15 for a while until it really released. Try it out, and don't forget to setup your ~/.fvwm2/background.list file to use the nice setup-background feature.
----
GNOME has been a political project from the beginning. Unlike KDE that had the goal to provide an userfriendly desktop to all unixes.
Maybe we will be able to compare Gnome and KDE on their technical merits.
But as this post indicates there will always be people who like to convince others with their beliefs and morals.
-----
1). KDE had a good idea, just took the wrong road (IMNSHO)
2). I always have, KDE is not nearly as stable as the KDE zealots make it out to be, and GNOME is not as unstable as the KDE zealots make it out to be.
3). If you truly believe in something you WILL try to talk other people into it. This is not a bad thing, if you don't like it, just ignore them. The concept of the 1st Ammendment is that you can say things which may not be popular with everyone.
"with the first ammendment, you get Barney Fife(sp)*, no first Ammendment: Hitler, there's a Big F*ing Difference" -- Dennis Miller
* (I don't have the RANTS here, the first name may be wrong)
4). Morals is not a dirty word. (It just makes most people feel guilty, which makes them strike out at everything they can)
-- Keith
(I have enough accounts to deal with)
I actually meant 5.2, made a typeo.. sorry... anyway its 5.2 that i installed it on, brand new installation with all the updates from updates.redhat.com, so don't blame it on the redhat distribution... i still say gnome is not ready for 1.0 at all.
Name me a product which had it's initial release be production ready.
Debian 2.0.
What great timing! Lots of hype at LW, and the servers get a slight break!
... it's come a long way since a month ago.
Actually I have used Windows 1.0. Found it in with my dad's floppies. CAme on a single 5.25" disk :). Anyway... while it may have sucked it sucked for longer than five minutes before it sucked itself inside out.
Don't excite yourself there, maybe hundreds and thousands of people that do nothing but irc, play their little mp3's and ?.. oh yah.. look at pretty transparent xterm's and watch just how neet it is to see your window transparent when it moves around... cute helps me get work done!.. to me if the previous guy there posting that you replied to seemed to be 'apologizing' for a letdown that's about to occur.. i get about sick and tired of US (thats folks like me btw) getting called the whiners.. when the 'poor guys' that work so hard on their free time to deliver this 'wonderful' product are doing the exact same thing... i dont make them code.. it's their choice.. so i dont need to be reminded of what hours of their spare time that went into this. What i do need to be reminded of is how well this product performs.. what's its benefits.. does it work? well? ...
bitchin and moaning... bout all you guys are good for.. bitch over everything that dont go your little way.. sheesh.
I'd love to see a poll on that...
I doubt it.
Take your quest and your 'honour' else where --
Linux: It's just an OS!
Enough already.
QT2.0 beta and KDE are reported to work togther...
Once QT2.0 is stable enough, it'll be released, of course,
and then all of you 'non-free' whiners will hopefully finally
shut the hell up about it.
It's a non issue.
its not a full gnome aware wm .50.2
this is what brad had to say about it on the mailing list at
--------------------------------------------
i have read the gnome window manager "specification" and have decided to
not support gnome any time soon... the person that (literally, it seems)
threw the spec together didn't take into account that most window managers
that are ICCCM 2.0 compliant (or partially compliant, as is the most common
case) won't integrate very cleanly with the design.
until it's more revised, i don't think blackbox will ever support gnome...
sorry about this, but someone has to put their foot down...
If what you said truly happened and this was not some wierd configuration, send a bug report !
Maybe they just needed more eye balls to weedle out such problems....
Peace.
Simple, intuitive, and still the best pager.
But then again I also use "textedit" on my sun.
-bobby, who doesn't like computers...
You're right, the GNOME kiddies made the
announcement at LinuxWorld because its good marketing.
While GNOME continues trying to be flashy and l33t,
KDE will continue to become more and more stable and
feature rich without the bloat...
You're right, the GNOME kiddies made the
announcement at LinuxWorld because it's good marketing.
While GNOME continues trying to be flashy and l33t,
KDE will continue to become more and more stable and
feature rich without the bloat...
GNOME is a great de, considering its only at 1.0, however I don't think it still is ready for maintsream use. The last build I used, dating from about 2 weeks ago, was *quite* buggy and seriously lacked key features. Compared to KDE 1.1 or even 1.0, it still has a far way to go both in stability, usability, and features. I know that RedHat is planning to release distribution 6.0 later this spring, could this early release have been motivated by that? It is april, and from what I've heard, 6.0 is suppose to be out in mid April. Thus, 1.0 had to ocme out now, if redhat wanted to ship it with 6.0.
Yes it works. You just have to keep your RPM for GTK+ 1.0
No man, you dont want to work in KDE, sh*t that's an environment you can actually sit down, sit back.. crack your fingers.. do work.. and FEEL good about it being there where you blink you eyes.. and not being restarted, or crashing.. KDE offers you apps that make you productive, and its stability means you won't be able to get away with claiming the WM/DE crashed on you... sounds like to me it will be allowing/forcing you to be more productive.... scary.
Tsktsk, it's a 1.0 release. You should notice that as time passes, the versioning inflation will reach into 'stable' series, because people wont install development series as often these days. So we get brown paper bag 1.0 releases instead. Of course, that means people wait for 1.0.2 releases instead, which in turn leads to further versioning inflations until stable series becomes unstable and unstable series becomes stable. Therefore, we might as well get over the entire version stuff and just name the various releases after various weird things and just run CVS versions to be on the bleeding fell-over-the-edge-'it's not the falling that hurts it's the stopping'.
:). It's a pain to get it all right. Do a ./configure;make;make install three times over with everything in random order and it might work :).
Anyways, it's worked fine for me, you probably just got a library or three wrong
Oh, joy, now I get to compile it on my 'ole HP 712 at work too. 75 mhz, and it'll just take about... oh, a week or so to compile (yay, compiling with a slow computer over NFS is such a happy-happy thing). And then I probably get to do it all over again since HP-UX is screwy with installing shared libs (nonono, no overwriting libraries in use here). Oh, and since it's an HP, that 500mb compile estimate will probably double. HP binaries are extremely huge.
Which one has bloat? You seem to be confusing E with gnome.
-- Keith
I'm waiting for GNOME v1.1 or something along those lines.
Until then I'll keep using KDE v1.1.
Maybe by v1.1 GNOME won't require 20 different libraries
to run properly...
On the other hand with KDE v1.1 -->
1. install QT
2. install kdesupport
3. install kdelibs
4. install kdebase
5. install other KDE apps as you please
6. done -- enjoy!
KDE 1.0 was very stable and a hell of a lot
more full-featured than GNOME!
i used the rpms that were on the gnome site, so if its a library problem, then the gnome people got a library or three wrong. Also, the crash that I mentioned was just the first of several at pretty frequent intervals. I know that versioning is really irrelevant. Heck, probably like half the software that a stable linux system runs is = 1.0, but i think its much better to err on the side of conservatism. Most of the people have read the storm of press that gnome has been getting, like on the front page of dallas morning news, but have never actually used linux. When they see the news that gnome has gone 1.0, which in their mind will mean stable, they might decide now's the time for them to try linux. If this happens and they have the same experience as I have they'll have a pretty bad taste in their mouth. I think on the whole KDE offers a much more consistent and user-friendly interface. And, in my experience it crashes only once for every one-hundred times gnome does. And yes, I am saying this of KDE 1.0, not KDE 1.1.
EXCUSES EXCUSES EXCUSES
WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Shit when you gonna STOP making
excuses Bill? er whatever your name is
Stop Red Hat owning everything.
Support choice:
USE KDE.
It looks that way partially because they don't make it as easy as RedHat to find out what the latest bug fixes are. (Don't say there aren't any, because there have been Security fixes required which are not Debian's fault, but still required fixes).
.0 release I have ever seen, though whether or not I would put it in a production public-side position is quite questionable.
But I will agree, that Debian 2.0 was the MOST stable
-- Keith
How bout you just STFU anyways?
Compiling gtk, glib, and gnome takes at least a day. Although I prefer compiling it, I use rpm's on slower machines. What's the point of not?
Why is gnome so horribly packaged. KDE is very simple and yet remains modular. All prereq libs to use KDE are packaged in kdesupport. KDElibs and core are two other packages. The remaining packages you can select and choose from. GNOME on the other hand has 20 different prereq lib packages, which you have to find, config separetely, and install. Then it has about 20 of its own different packages, its just ridiculous...
Uhh.. as much as your argument makes sense, it has a fatal flaw. The versioning scheme makes sense because at some point you need to go into feature freeze. With your proposal, there can be no feature freeze cutoff. Imagine what would happen then ! I think it is a good idea to have a 1.0 brown paper bag release so that many more people can be lured into downloading and testing it.
Now your just being silly. KDE 1.0 crashed all of the time on most of my systems, except LinuxPPC. Not to mention it's performance problems (Except on my PII450 and Dual PII233). KDE 1.0 may not have been as bad as Win95, but they seemed to have tried.
-- Keith
Perhaps i am just feeding the troll, but can't you offer some proof to that? since i last checked, GNOME is gpl'ed, so actually no one can "own" it in the MS.....but please, offer us your explaination....
.. they want to kill our anonimity by searilizing their chips. We wouldn't do anything that stupid would we? Oh yea KILL ANONYMOUS COWARDS. SO THAT WAY WE COULD GET RID OF THE ONE OR TWO OF THEM THAT MAKE STUPID COMMENTS.
OK, you have a valid point. I havent helped them to beta test, so I am a hypocrite. So what? I still have a point. Making GNOME 1.0 before it is stable is a mistake. If people read the press hyping GNOME as the end-all be-all super-stable microsoft killer and decide to try linux as a result of it, then it crashes on them more often than windows did, they probably won't give the GNOME developers a second chance to get it right. The 2.2 Kernel went through 130+ revisions to get to 2.2, and GNOME has gone through, what, 5?, 10? anyway not nearly enough.
the people reading the Dallas Morning News are not going to download gnome 1.0... They may buy Redhat 6.0, which will probably include gnome 1.0.2 or something like that.
Dr.Whiz-Bang
Granted it needed some fixes.
.0 releases are either avoided, or you wait until the first set of fixes are out. (Or in MS's case, the first 4 or 5 sets of fixes). The idea the .0 releases are "commonly", which is what the statement implied, stable is pure rubish. (BTW, I knew Debian would be the primary answer to my question).
That's just my point.
I was not attacking anyone, I'm just stating that when dealing with production,
-- Keith
I suppose you find linux hard to use as well. Clicking mouse buttons and untaring themes is oh so hard. Oh you might have to edit a file so watch out
Ah, but my # of installations is in the hundreds, how about yours?
-- Keith
Well i fell into the < html trap too... thats supposed to be <= 1.0... anyway you get the idea.
ftp://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/pub/gnomeo r.aarnet.edu.au/pub/gnome
http://mirr
Very fast (especially for australian ppl) and it has the source and binary drops of 1.0
How 'bout being polite.
Well i tried that stuff in the 1.0pre directory.
i need a little help describing my experience..
see im not a writer.. how would you writers
better say 'IT SUCKS FUQIN GOAT NUTS' ?
thank you. *SMILE*
:P
Your belligerance, is satisfying me.
makes me feel smarter when i see such
ignorant posts, to a VERY perfect point.
what can gnome do? LOOK PRETTY. WOW
i think i'll play with playboy.. it looks
pretty!
'icewm (the most stable wm out there)'
'I can't wait until Marko Macek release a new version'
im curious, if it is 'the most stable' why
in hell does he need to release a new version?
Yes, you're right, so why don't they call it 1.0pre or 1.0 beta, as I said in my original post. That way people don't get the misconception that its stable. I didnt have any misconceptions that it would be, because i had used 0.98, and I knew there was know way they could get all the stuff stable in less than a month since the last release, but lots of people who havent tried gnome before will see 1.0 and think oooooh... it must be stable now. That's my point.
gnome-session works for me.
icewm has no runtime configurable keybindings,
and is therefore useless to a lot of people
Oh shit. I am a Windows user who tried Linux, :-(
but abandoned it because KDE 1.0 crashed too
much (much more than my Windows install). I
was hoping GNOME 1.0 would be rock solid
(it has a GNU name on it), so I could
finally jump the sinking ship for good.
Guess that ain't gonna happen
Amen! Preach it brother.
Don't worry man, they won't get this.. they never do... time and time again you'll see the privacy activists YELLING and SCREAMING about PRIVACY!!! then the next day.. supporting slashy dot (heh) getting rid of anonymous cowards... shits funny. laff.
So wait a couple weeks after it is released and buy it from Cheapbytes or LSL for $1.99. Geez.
Sorry, but OS/2 had a "taskbar" long before Win95 was even out of beta. ;-)
I love the simplicity of FVWM (1, not 2). Occasionally I switch to E for a while, but then I realize I need more RAM and I go back. There's nothing inherently ugly about a WM that just doesn't look or function like Win9x. It has a nice homey appeal.
Texas A&M's math department uses KDE and Linux on P2/400's to run hundreds of NCD X terminals, without any crashing or problems (besides the horribly slow crappy sluggish transparent window movements).
Subject says it all. Anyone who can even suggest that Red Hat equals Microsoft is so clueless that putting a sledgehammer through their skull would only increase their intelligence.
Hint: Linus uses Red Hat. Linus also supports KDE. Linus thinks both are pretty damn cool. Be like Linux. Don't be like Prior Poster.
P2/400's. Most of my problems were on P166's and below.
As I stated in another post, my P2/450 ran fine.
-- Keith
I suppose that's sarcasm directed at me (the originator of this thread). Acutally, I've been using linux since 96 (slackware 2.x with a 1.2 kernel.. weee) before either was out. When KDE 1.0 came out, I tried it and loved it. It never crashes on me... KDE 1.1 makes it even better. I wish Troll would get a life and GPL the QT libraries so KDE could hurry up and crush GNOME and we wouldnt have to deal with it anymore.
Don't you mean thay you will play with yourself instead because the girls in playboy look pretty?
Hmm... KDE and P166? Gnome is slow beyond a KDE user's wildest nightmares on a K6/300...
You have got to be kidding, if the title includes any of the words KDE, GNOME, Microsoft, or RedHat, the Odds of you getting the first comment are about the same as the odds of the story not starting flame wars.
-- Keith
Right you are, but at the rate gnome is progressing towards stability, it won't get there before Redhat slaps it into 6.0
... I say, compare KDE 1.0 to GNOME 1.0. The former is drastically more stable and functional than the latter. This was obviously a rushed release to serve the needs of a company who has a distribution to ship and free-only software zealots who need to get users on their side before KDE takes over.
On a side note, why the fuck does the gtk file widget suck so god damn bad. Please use other file widgets as an example. I really like KDE's file widget, it is definetely the best I've seen.
From what I've seen of MWM it is very inefficient from a users standpoint. I don't mean "easy" since all computer related things are easy for competent people. I mean that it gets in the way. I don't need KDE with its windows explorer type interface for dealing with files and applications, but I do like the window manager. When you maximize a window, it really maximizes it fully, not just vertically. It will fill the screen except for the portion taken up by the taskbar and the VW and application shortcut bar which themselves stay out of the way. So many other window managers get in the way by setting things to always be on top which will then occlude part of an apps window which is very annoying to me. If someone would create a window manager with the benefits of KDE but without all the bells and whistles designed for those afraid of a shell prompt it would be perfect in my opinion. Gnome has yet to create such a windowmanager. E is snazzy looking but gets in the way in the manners I've already described.
Yes, maybe by version 1.1, GNOME will have followed
the KDE example of bundling hacked-up versions
of externally maintained packages into one
pile-of-crap package.
No thanks.
Red$at - a new Tom Clancey book about an evil multinational corporation known as Gnome attempting to subvert former Russian spy satelites for industrial espianoge and the subjegation of humanity.
Neener. It's a book and you can't copy it for all your friends. It's not open sourced.
Not like OUR GNOME is.
Neener.
First I would sit down and actually analyze point by point what I disliked about it, rather than making broad generalizations. The I would make constructive criticisms and suggestions. Perhaps if I were feeling ambitious a patch or two. You try being helpful sometime. You might like it.
Wow, I'm amused.
./configure
Instead of reviewing your facts, you just spread fud.
If you had bothered to check, you can tell
not to install libjpeg and libgif if you'd like or for that
matter any of the other kdesupport packages.
Or you can not install it altogether and not have any
problems with kdelibs or kdebase. kdenetwork does
want a few things from kdesupport, but you can
suppliment those with the same libs independent
of kdesupport.
Do your homework before you flame.
uselinux@email.com
And yet people complain "kdesupport is a mess" or
some such nonsense...
Fine, go install your libs from all over the Web while I
type rpm -i a couple of times and get down to business.
The choice is, of course, yours.
I just saw a very positive 5 min report on Linux and the gnome release on CNN's Moneyline.
"Linux [...] today became a lot easyer to use"
"Good news for the consumer, maybe bad news for MS".
Gnome and ease of use was then compared to automatic transmission for cars, and Miguel was interviewed and spoke about Freedom for the user
and picking up good ideas form other systems, and leaving the bad ones out.
"Could Miguel be the next Marc Andreesen?"
Marc Andreesen: "I have now doubt gnome is going
to grow like mad."
Linus ("The Silicon Valley Hero") spoke about Linux on PDA and game consoles.
CNN mentioned the bidding for linux.com and that
MS lost.
Then an interview with Leonard Zubkoff (VAR).
Very very good PR for Linux and Gnome.
(No mention of KDE...)
It was a 1.2MB 5.25" floppy and there was only one of them. Maybe there were some extra utilities on a second disk that i couldn't find, but I ran it directly off the 1 disk and it had file manager and the crappy reversi and some other crappy stuff.
My point exactly.
I disagree, if you compiled with optimizations, (Up until now full debugging was enabled by default).
-- Keith
A window manager manages windows.
A desktop environment provides common high level services for applications, such as print services, a component architecture, high level dialogs, session management, help system, configuration system....
Not to mention the desktop apps, applets etc etc.
Eh? What's your point?
GNOME v1.0 -- the release version -- crashed on him.
It doesn't matter if he submitted 1 bug report or 1,000 of them.
The point is, the 1.0 released crashed hard after only
running for a couple of minutes and the user had to go to
great lengths to even get it to run again.
That's just plain bad, assuming it is true.
(Although I find it a little far fetched...)
No, that was no sarcasm. I actually am a
Windows user and I actually tried KDE 1.0
and it actually crashed on me just about
every 20 min. My Windows uptime is about
3 hours on average, so Windows won.
Now if GNOME is worse than KDE 1.0 in terms
of stability then I really will stick with
Windows. And I really am curious about why
GNU allows its good name to be associated
with buggy software.
I am definately sick of it to.
How many _years_ late is the OS formerly known as "Windows NT 5.0" ?
A) One
B) Two
C) Three
D) NO ROM BASIC
E) All of the above
Congratulations to the entire GNOME team!
Yeah, E and WM are cool window managers but I found I never used any of their features except desktop switching.
For now, I like using flwm http://www.cinenet.net/users/spitzak/flwm/
It may not do 50 million things but it can manage workspaces. The root menu isn't that good but I use GNOME to start programs anyway.
Small(source is 53k) quick, and it works.
Oh yeah, the cool sideways titlebar is a pretty cool feature too.
Oh... well, in that case, try KDE 1.1- it's much more stable. And anyway, KDE makes utilities that people actually need to be productive, not 50 million games and stupid fish applets like gnome does. You can actually install and run applications from both. You don't even have to run the panel from one or the other... for example you could use windowmaker as your windowmanager and still use the apps from both. If you found 1.0 easy enough to use, you really should give 1.1 a try.
Actually, they look more like motif than win95, unless you have the gross 95 widgets turned on. In any case, the KDE file manager is my favorite part. I could do without the wm or the panel. So i just use the fm and the other utilities with whatever wm i'm in the mood for.
The "date was set" this last monday. OMFG, that is such a long time, they must have NOT known that it wasn't already ready! Are you a gnome developer, have you even installed/worked with is (1.0 that is)? i doubt it, i reaaaaally doubt it. are you an elite kde user?
"i feel that GNOME 1.1 will..." -- i bet that's not all you feel.
ignorant people should die.
Why not run both? For a while I ran KDE/kwm + GNOME, and it worked fine. Right now I'm in GNOME +Enlightenment + KDE, and it's pretty stable, though to tell you the truth I think I prefer WindowMaker. I'm just running Enlightenment 'cause I'm the only one around who's gotten it to compile successfully(I'm running an old version of GNOME, btw. 0.99.3.2, it says) The newer versions are much easier to compile, so I guess people will stop being impressed soon : (
heh is there going to be anything like StarOffice or the like 100% gnome? even a window manager, like 100% gtk too :)
Well, I damn well can't get into gnome.org, uk.gnome.org only exists in web form, the local sunsite only has 1.0 SRPMS, the official uk mirror doesn't have tarballs, and I'm not pleased. The only 1.0 tarballs I've so far seen are on an Oz site, dead slow from Britian.
Not good, particularly as I am trying to use only tarballs with my RH5.2 installation. The i386 binary rpms tell me I've not got gtk+ when I installed the 1.2 tarballs not a week ago.
Come on Sunsite, get your mirrors up-to-date!!!
I have KDE installed on 9 machines. The most powerful of these machines is a 486/50 with 40MB. The weakest is a 486/25 with 16MB. Every machine is a different make/model.
They all operate flawlessly (except sometimes under Netscape, where Netscape takes a dive independently from KDE).
It's not exactly fast, but its the only thing I can do to keep these machines free from the wrath of Windows.
--ickpoo
...I certainly don't.
For starters, Linux is not about making life easier for newbies who don't even know how to use the Win95 start menu. Linux is about excellence. I suspect Linux is about technical excellence first of all. Sure, interface excellence is something else to consider, but excellence as defined by whom? The average Linux user, or computer illiterates?
Making something "easy" for computer illiterates is not necessarily the be-all/end-all for computer interfaces, and it's probably misguided anyway. These people have to take classes to learn to drive a car; let 'em learn how to use a computer. The marketing of computers as little other than an appliance doesn't change the fact that practice/training/instruction/education is necessary to use them effectively. That isn't going to change soon, if it ever changes at all.
How many dists is Gnome in?
To bad Gnome doesn't follow the same standards...
And the latest QPL is GPL compatible ;-)
All I had to do was install the RPMs in the redhat/i386 and redhat/noarch directories and it works fine...
By your own admission It's the end users that make a desktop environment, and Gnome does nothing for them. It's unabashedly aimed at umber-geeks and not "clerks, grandmas, and kids".
;-)
That's why Gnome will always be a sideline on the Linux desktop. Go Corel!
That latest Gimp was probably linked against gtk-1.1. So either don't remove that lib, or remove it and make a symlink from libgtk-1.1.so to libgtk-1.2.so.
They can't write a decent panel, much less anything else.
I'm still a bit foggy on the concept of what exactly KDE and GNOME do. They are addons/enhancements/hacks/changes to X that make the windows and stuff look a certain way? Or what?
What about that fwmn thingy? What is that?
thanks
mike dombrowski
legodude@home.net
Agreed! Damn volunteers - why don't they get off their fat asses and do something worthwhile! If I wasn't so busy playing mp3 files and wanking on IRC, I'd run Sunsite myself.
There is no replacement for a pager. Maybe, maybe, maybe if E improves and you can get a real fvwm-style pager without gnome panel-sucky-sucky-sucky, it could stack up to FVWM.
Man, I remember how I liked E-13 before all this esd, sliding desktops, e-conf and tooltips distracted it. There used to be a real nice pager in E-13 (after fvwmpixmap, before E14 rewrite.) Realtime-sort of mini-window snapshots in the pager were cool.
I can hear you all now "USE WINDOWMAKER." BUt that needs a pager, needs a pager, needs a pager. The alt-# is a sweet keybinding, but who wants just one row of desktops? It just ain't two dimensional. And please, don't mention the clip or the 'workspace' menu to me.
Compared to the RedHat Errata page, it is still much more difficult to just figure out what issues have come up and which packages address them.
They have a great BTS, which is great for developers, but my Mother really could care less about a Bug Tracking System.
-- Keith
Right On Man!
I got pumped reading your comment, and laughed my ass off at the 'sledgehammer' comment.
We need more posters like you.
I have a question, how come you did not reply to his comment about "that's not all you feel," heh. Are you a 15 year old monkey-spank?
I have P75's all over the place (they are dropping out of the bottom of our upgrade paths for WinXX). Linux runs very well with each WM I've used, except KDE.
-- Keith
GNOME makes a stand. We'll see if it flys.
-rfinney
They updated it sometime between GTK 1.2 and sometime last night. It was very strange to be one minute hacking the program to 'forget' about the 1.1 and see 1.2 and the next night downloading cvs again and having it work fine..
CVS is the way to do it. I'm personally giving everything 3 days or so. I just vaporized my 'best' box and it'll be fun to install GNOME on it.. From CVS of course =)
KDE is also in violation of the GPL and hence the
users of it are criminals.
I think the choice is clear, really. I can go with the completely free, better designed and customisable GNOME or I can have the bloated,
ugly KDE and be arrested and thrown in gaol.
Window Maker kicks a$$. And although it doesn't have a pager, and it really needs one. But GNOME's pager applet works. Which is really cool!
I haven't really used Gnome since .30 but I could have Gnome, Netscape and Wine/Agent (icewm as the WM) running on a P166 32meg. I tried the same with KDE (1.0) instead of Gnome (kwm instead of ice) and it was way slower. Admittedly KDE crashed a lot less, but it still crashed a lot. krn in particular was rather unstable.
What's with this "failed dependencies" nonsence.
Just how do you rpm (red hat package) manage
these babies?
Troll...Smeghead... I hope you can prove that, otherwise you'll be hearing from my lawyer.
About 1/2 of my Gnome gripes are deleted by Slashdot Censors.
I say screw you to Slash Dot Censors!
If it's a violation of the GPL then it must be a violation of copyright. Whose copyright is being violated? The KDE authors? They have said that linking against Qt is OK, so everyone is in the clear. This whole line of argumentation is just a stupid ploy to make up for the technical inferiority of GNOME.
How am I meant to run GNOME on my serial terminal? This really sucks. What is Redhat doing???
1.0 is much more stable for me than any previous version that I have tried.
I decided I'd take a shot at compiling GNOME today, since it finally hit a version number that doesn't start with a decimal point, heh. Anyways, everything was going great, except when trying to compile gnome-core, it failed saying that the "no" command wasn't available, I've searched my system, and I definatly don't have the "no" command, but I have no idea what it would be a part of. Please send email to mcox@cass.net if you can help me, sorry to ask for an email instead of a reply, but I'm at work, and am not logged in, so it's rather difficult to check replies to my messages. Thanks, keep up the good work everyone!
Where the hell do you even begin compiling/installing this thing?
It's a monster.
I must agree, I downloaded the same rpms and installed them and hoopla ... I was kinda disapointed ... having gnome crash like this wasn't a joke ... for the first time in my life I had to hard reset a Linux machine because it hung ... this is bad ... but maybe I have something similar to the gentleman above ... I too have 5.1 ... even though I don't see the relevance of this, given that the update doesn't change anything major ... anyways ... these were my 2 cents ...
1. If you use an old version, don't EVEN say anything about buggy stuff. Get the real 1.0 release and then comments. :P
2. If you find bugs in 1.0, mail the developers about it. The more the better.
3. If you want a new features or wish lists, mail the developers too. Probably will be in 1.2 release.
4. If you just think GNOME is not ready for 1.0, show facts to prove why you think that. Not just I feel....blah...who cares what you feel
5. If you are a KDE bigot. #$@$#$%
6. If you are a flamer. Get a life.
looks like i might as well forget about downloading this thing tonite.
When they design a panel that can be minimized then someone in a business environment (the only people who matter) might actually use Gnome. Until then its useless screen hog that no one is going to want to have everyday users mess with.
With the combination of GGI and AA-lib, you should be able to do just that ;)
Anyone have some screenshots of the default before I have to download dozens of devel libs and updates to install this beast?
... that's the real disadvantage of GNOME, as far as I can tell. KDE is definitely easier to install. You really don't want to try to compile GNOME, and installing the GNOME RPM's requires you hunt down about a dozen dependencies.
But let's face it, 99% of the computer-using population will NEVER be able to install operating system components by themselves, even something as "easy" as KDE.
When GNOME is bundled with distros, it'll be a different matter. In terms of usability, it's just about on par with KDE - of course the last time I tried KDE was 6 months ago, I had to give up on it because it was too slow. GNOME is acceptably fast on my system, so I'll end up sticking with it. That's my bottom line.
Just put it on and wow! Looks much nicer than the standard X windowmanagers.
I had difficulties with dependencies installing from the command line, so just used glint and all was well.
A couple points:
there are already plenty of known bugs
see http://bugs.gnome.org/
Also, your #5 is a subset of #6.
Remember Linus' law? "Given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow."
That's GNOME's problem. It hasn't gotten enough attention yet. The only way it is going to get those eyeballs is if the authors decide enough is enough, and release it. That's the only way.
Sooner or later, you just have to release the software. Is GNOME ready? Depends on who you ask. I haven't had any problems with it, so I think it's great. Maybe others think the install could be easier, or there are serious bugs. But the only way we'll know *for sure* how buggy it is is to release it.
Yeah, software like a GUI has to come up to a certain minimum level of usability and stability before most people will touch it. Well, GNOME is at that level IMO. It's not "perfect", but then nothing else is either. And the only way for it to get better is for lots of people to start participating in the debugging process.
gsl
freetype
(these two are not part of gnome)
then try:
glib
gtk+
ORBit
I forget the rest...
But email me at ecarter@cs.arizona.edu if you want scripts that will compile and install it all for you.
i am a l33t hax0r
The Gnome developers do (lie).
Why use a system that has so many disadvantages (bad design, etc) when better solutions are availiable.
It's been quoted on LinuxWorld from the Corel CEO.
As far as wether two GUI's can co-exist for one OS, I don't see may OpenLook boxes around, do you?
Excactly, I'm glad there are others who don't like KDE either.
-- Keith
now THAT'S funny
What is the highest number of comments for a single story?
-- Keith
I was watching CNN and they covered LinuxWorld. Every screenshot was of KDE, not a mention or image of Gnome...
At last count, the 9832 postings when Rob asked the question "which distribution would Baby Spice use?"
Check the "hof" (hall of fame) link in the upper left hand corner of every page on slashdot.
So it's Gnome that I don't like...
Assume: ASS U ME
I run KDE on approx 25% of my machines, 1.1 is fine, 1.0 was slow and was a little prone to coming to a crawl when too many things were going on.
I prefer WindowMaker with Neither GNOME or KDE, but I'm a geek. I still use TWM sometimes.
KDE is consistant, that's it's primary bonus.
-- Keith
Corba, schmorba.
I forgot something: I run GNOME on 0% of my machines. At no point did I say I liked Gnome. (It's design is better, but it will take time to get it to a stable enough place where I will be willing to deploy it, hopefully 1.1, much like KDE).
-- Keith
Although I'm a KDE user, I'd like to thank the all programmers for their free work!
I was with you up until the moment you mentioned the apps.
(Of course, I haven't had any window manager/DE crash on me in a VERY VERY long time, except KDE 1.0)
-- Keith
I'm thinking it will hit the top 10, though I'm not sure it will overthrow the Iraq bombings.
-- Keith
748 posts for "US and UK unilaterally attack Iraq"
Don't YOU feel like an idiot for posting in public when you can't fucking read?
I wonder how many of my existing apps/deps upgrading will break this time? (Last time it was 9 apps). Gnome's cool - but get the backward compatibility together boys!
KDE is kinda pokey - even on my 2x266 - but it never breaks, and it never demands some newer version of some lib that, once installed, breaks 5 or 10 other apps.
I'll stick with KDE until Gnome gets its collective stuff together
Hehe... i think i will use fvwm2 without gnome.. :)
i don't need it
Why "kill -19"?? what do you want to stop them for if you dont use them? you deliberately want to waste memory to show how good MWM is? *shrug*
By setting your threshold lower, you can see as much as you want, even the first post r0xor stuff. You can also see exactly how many posts have been "censored", which under this topic appears to be about 4 out of 400 comments... You're probably either terribly unlucky or your posts have problems.
Uh youre a fucking idiot. He was obviously referring to kwm, which comes with KDE and which is slower than shit.
I completely agree. The widget set is the ugliest I've seen in a long time. I preferred GEOS's interface on the C-64 to that thing. We use it at work (an HP modified version), and while it gets the job done, you could say the same thing about a '79 Mercury Zephyr... I can't believe it's a commercial API to be honest. It deserves to die.
-Lord Crass
I went to panel, tried to add the pager applet and the panel crashed. With the panel gone, I tried to log out using Enlightenment's menu option but it just sat there. So I used the CTRL+ALT+BACKSPACE combo to kill the X server. When i ran startx again, the panel didn't come back up, nor did enlightenment. All I had was a Midnight Commander window with now window manager. Also, midnight commander crashes randomly, like for example, if you close a folder window, the whole thing crashes.
This isn't a stable release by any stretch of the imagination-- and it was horrible judgement for the gnome team to release it this soon.
I thought this was supposed to be one of the advantages of "free software" that developers would make decisions based on technical merits and not commercial/financial pressures! Sure seems like Jeez, even the "evil" KDE developers know better than to release software this unpolished. This should be gnome 0.50 not gnome 1.0!! I had better luck and more stability running gnome 0.30!!
Hmmm...
:)
I used both KDE & Gnome on a P100/32. I didn't have much problems, except when compiling stuff since its a little bit slow
instead of complaining about newer users not taking the time to with compile themselves, or figure out whats wrong themselves, or even find out how to configure something themselves... create :
screw compiling - leave that to the damn creators and the developers that wanna screw with the program themselves (why bother compile yourself if you're just going to USE it?)
make a HELP SYSTEM that is decent with wizards for problems... something kinda like FAQs in #linux on effnet - i could spend days chatting with that bot
a universal configuration tool that can have minor modules installed when you install a program so that is added to it - X based (damn you console freaks)
SIMPLE installations for programs... i've had nothing but trouble getting ANYTHING running on linux (and i'm not afraid of the console - i just far prefer GUI since you don't have to rpm -Uvh --nodeps *.rpm and you just gotta highlight and click install - who wants to see all that BS rpm exports?)
and WHEN THE FSCK DID UPGRADE STOP MEANING UPGRADE??!?!?? i can't upgrade half of my fsckin rpm's on this damn machine cause of failed dependencies - i force them, other things crash... now is this the fault of the creators not doing reverse-compatibilities in their programs (retards) or of the library creators no including reverse-compatibility (even more retarded)?
linux is SCREWED until its even HALF simple...
Since Redhat pays all the gnome developers, and an influential kernel hacker, its clear that they are trying to usurp control of linux. Since its obvious that KDE is no longer relevant, control over gnome gives Redhat effective control over the linux desktop. I also strongly suspect that Redhat was involved in the cover up after Secret Service agents killed Vince Foster and made it look like a suicide, all at Clinton's behest. He was getting too close to the secret of the UFO flights the Airforce has been doing since the 50s. OH FUCK, the black helicopters are coming to get me, and no one else can see them!!!!
On lower end machines you should take great
care in specifying the correct compile/link
options. Removing exceptions in a C++ program
(i.e., KDE/QT) will help a LOT. I did that
myself.
Boy, are you idealistic. Gnome is GNU Network object model
environment. That alone is enough to scare off most non-nerds
from even trying it (unless they have no choice when it becomes
default system in RedHat distributions). I do not feel that Gnome developers have any
interest in listening to home users or meeting their needs, and
here's why.
The Gnome agenda is:
1. provide sybsystem for communicating between apps on
desktop and over networks using orb, etc., and gnome hooks
applications can use.
2. spread out required libriaries and support files over entire
system so that users have great difficulty uninstalling GNOME
or withouit breaking other Gtk based apps, etc.
3. hijack Gtk so that functions which should be provided by
Gtk alone (like drag and drop) require GNOME, so that increasingly people
who like and use Gtk apps will have to install GNOME as
well to get needed functionality
4. provide a foundation for Rasterman's playpen graphics
experimentation, regardless of the practicality of such graphic
hacks or usefulness in 90% of applications, further creating
a dependency between apps and "imglib" whether these
apps really need imglib or not - and further complicating the
installation and process and creating unnecessary dependencies.
5. In summary, the purpose of Gnome is to make using Linux
X dependent on Gnome, and nothing else.
How does any of this benefit a home user? Do you really think
people with such an agenda (originally to kill KDE) really care
about usability from the perspective of a non-nerd who may
want to use Linux to do the things most computer users want
a desktop environment for?
True, Kde is a little too much like Windows 95 for many LInux
users, and Gnome may provide more flexibility in the long run.
I hope that Gnome developers will really do what you want
them to do - listen to non-technical users (if there are any)
and design Gonme to better meet their needs as development
evolves. As there are few, if any, non-technical users of
Linux at this time, where is such feedback coming from? Will
Gnome or RedHat pay non-nerds to use LInux and provide
feedback. The few non-nerds who are currently using Linux
are probably already using KDE and don't want to install dozens
of support libraries spread all over their system to try Gonme,
even if they know how or can due it with a binary package
manager.
Well I'm doing my part. =)
Now you say 1.1 is 'much more stable'... But wern't you just saying that 1.0 'never crashes'.. How can it be more stable then perfect?
I wonder how many of my existing apps/deps upgrading will break this time? (Last time it was 9 apps). Gnome's cool - but get the backward compatibility together boys!
You're complaining about backwards compatibility breaking in development releases? I'd much rather have to upgrade libs to use development releases of software than have software in development pollute their APIs with backwards compatibility. Backwards compatibility is what is responsible for the mess we call x86(the CPU and the rest).
The gtk file widget isn't the best. But the gnome one is better..
Frankly the KDE file widget sucks hard (It's hard to navigate, and it doesn't rember paths).. Frankly the windows file selector is nicer.
Dude, put the crack pipe down.. (except for the Vince Foster part).
Dude, if I wanted point and drool, I'd have bought a Mac. If you want this shit that bad, code it, or pay someone else to do it for you. Otherwise, stop bitching.
I have a Celery with 128MB of RAM.
/. flame wars. Was interesting. Seemed to crash a lot (only tried for an evening, so no suprise there).
I normally use KDE (wife likes it, I like it, why not?). Decided to try GNOME 0.99.7 as a result of the
The thing I did notice was that GNOME used about 5-10MB of RAM less than KDE. This will give a speed advantage on small machines.
Then again, KDE just works for me and has done so for about a year - I'm happy with it for now.
Brendon
What about this bullshit??? Do you use Netscape? SSH? They are also not licensed under GPL. QPL is a much more free license than the NPL (Netscape public license). Have you thought about it?
I compile from source cuz I am a slackware guy. KDE compiled with almost 0 problems. I have yet to get Gnome to sucessfully compile! First it was nothing would compile cuz something was wrong with gettext installation (or something, I dunno) but eventually I fixed that. Now control-center won't compile (doesn't matter which version) it always ends with an error. Something about esd (even though ESD is sucessfully installed).
.tar.gz would take YEARS to compile on my poor 166.
I think there needs to be an all in one inclusive package! That checks for things you need but don't have, automatially compiles and installs every library nessacery, and basically takes care of it self. HA That'll be the day. Well besides an all in one inclusive
Just a tip/opinion to developers/designers: The Desktop Environment should NOT include the printer API. A high-quality printer should be a standard part of the os, like the lpr system is now. There is no sane reason why anyone would want printing to evolve only on window systems.
Incidentaly, I love *both* gnome and KDE, and c64 GEOS, and Amiga Workbench, etc.. as they all allow me to do what i want without much fuss.
Do anyone of you use Netscape? SSH? They are also not licensed under GPL. QPL is a much more free license than the NPL (Netscape public license). Have anyone of you thought about it?
Not really. With the entire country of mexico now teaching on GNOME desktops, user-oriented applications will proliferate like rabbits.
If you want to not use it, go ahead. Personally, I support the independance of tools/apps: it IS a pain in the ass to install/uninstall a hundred different libs to use a simple program. But much functionality must be simply AVAILABLE..
so if you don't like GNOME you have two options:
1. Don't use it. Yes, really, you don't fave to use GNOME or KDE, even in the future if either of them become common.
2. Fix it. Welcome to the GPL! Change what you want to change! Make it how YOU want it! Most people will really LIKE easy package management/config - there's a major opporotunity to be a hero here.
I use console and SVGALib on my 386 and Xfree86 with snazzy crap on my pentium. interoperable options are great.
So just compile rpm on your slackware box, and then the GNOME rpm's with the options --nodeps --force. Why kill yourself trying to compile GNOME? I never hear anyone complaining about how they don't get to compile MacOS or the Win95 Explorer, why should a Linux desktop environment be any different?
I thought my P90 was plenty fast enough until I upgraded to a new K6-2/400 system last week. Oh my. The P90 system just seems *sooo* *sloooooooow* now.
Certainly your mother doesn't care about the bug tracking system. But she sure gives a damn about the bug FIXING system!!
PS: If you can code and you complain about a bug without examining the source or gdb'ing, you haven't helped yourself as well as you can. The developers are not all full time paid employees - Free Software is a COMMUNITY undertaking.
You know, I really think Microsoft is a great
;-)
company. I wish I could work for them. I hear
they donate half their profits to charity every
year.
Linux sux
Gnome sux
KDE sux
Monica sux
MS RulZ
The teletubbies are gay
You don't know what the fsck you are talking about. I am right. bow down to me or fsck off.
stalman's a hippy
ESR is a capitolist pig
penguins are dirty, foul smelling wannabes just like the operating system they represent
Linus was mean to me when I insisted he include my patch. What a dork. I cried for a week. Who does this yahoo think he is?
I want to hear more MP3 stories. Don't you think
a garage full of those player's would make a kuel
beowolf cluster?
..... Ah, there are just so many ways to piss you
idiots off. This is too easy.
For one, the developers and debuggers of gnome have all been compiling and making the latest gnome packages from cvs. In order for this to work, they have their systems tuned perfectly. ie. All the right packages are installed, dependency problems are already corrected, etc, etc. They read the mailing lists and understand what changes suddenly may appear or what may break. The developers are living on a different plane than the average user, it's inevitable.
:(
The problem is the average user is not doing all that. For example, to compile the latest gnome packages libtool-1.2d is needed. Now I just checked a bunch of faq's on gnome, and no where is that mentioned. There is also a version of make or autoconf that is required that is in the gnu alpha ftp site, No where is that mentioned in the faq's.
These library problems are going to cause major headaches for the developers because 10,000 newbies are gonna be asking "HOW DO I INSTALL GNOME???"
They could have saved themselves the trouble of all this and prepared better documentation, unfortunately some of these faq's are getting out of date
on a side note, Gnome works great for me, been running gnome-session for 5 days 11 hours 52 minutes with no crashes. GMC has a few bugs, but Miguel has been diligent in stomping them out, kudos to you Miguel.
*giggle*
and just what are YOU doing now?
If you DON'T code, then shut the fuck up.
There is a patch to make it gnome compliant.
a r.gz
See http://jas.pspt.fi/~tkoskine/gnome/
For fvwm a patch exists at
http://www.serv.net/~jpaint/download/
and there is always the fvwm2gnome stuff at
http://fvwm2gnome.fluid.cx/src/fvwm2gnome-0.4.t
I had the same problem. Try typing the following at the command line:
rpm --rebuilddb
this fixed the problem for me. Read the rpm man page for more info.
GNOME has eclipsed KDE, let's face it. The KDE developers should give up on their efforts. Are they getting paid to enrich Troll Tech? No, right? Then why should they continue working on it?
Looks like healthy competition to me.
Sysadmins will APPRECIATE the functionality of GNOME, but the bottom line is, GNOME is a GUI. Most end-users will neither know nor care what's under the hood. If they did, they would have left Windows a long time ago.
me too ;)
you forgot one.
"I know Linux is supposed to be a good OS, but it was created by some hacker in 1991, I can't imagine its improved _that_ much in just 8 years"
The point is precisely that 0.99.3 was not 8 years ago.
no question about it, GNOME supports the most language bindings.
THAT WOULD FUK1N RULE D00D
hatred gives purpose to an empty life
think about that!
KDE has a large following, and a simple to-code-for toolkit. Even if it will not gain as much acceptance as GNOME, that doesn't mean it will fade away anytime soon.
I personally like GNOME, but it's all about choice.
Fascist illiterate perl-lovers. Say perl sucks and they censor you out.
...which probably means that they will be available real soon now.
Better than GEM???? surely you jest, the world has yet to catch up with GEM
yeah i don't understand why people are wasting their time coding the KDE system... it is obviously dead.. as dead as HARMONY..
So you mean that SSH is not a part of the core? I use ssh more often than a GUI.
i want free software!! hehehe
gimme gimme!
free downloadz rule
Come to think of it... I guess I've been a CDE user for a while without really knowing. In 93/94 I used a HP workstation for writing my masters thesis and one day a very neat desktop environment was installed. I don't really know for sure it was CDE, but it must have been. It came with this great little game called jewel. When I installed Red Hat 4.2 at home I was delighted to find its cloned version xjewel.
they've got "core developers"... "cores" are for elitist trash...
hehe
man, what do you do to make it crash? i haven't yet made gnome crash, and i've been using it constantly since 0.99.3...
that's 6 whole months away. there's plenty of time for gnome to stabilize and improve. but that having been said, corel is obviously not going to pick its windowing environment at the last minute. presumably the decision is coming up soon... and GNOME is looking good and can only get better in the coming months.
the latest QT license is VAPORWARE, designed to kill off the QT clone Harmony. until it is actually RELEASED under a liberal license you can't say jack.
Troll Tech is playing the FUD game just like Microsoft does. They have already killed one project which people put several man-years into, who knows who they'll be trampling over next?
it is not "just" an operating system, it is a way of life. it is about freedom.
this includes the freedom to have our work exploited by greedy megacorps, but hey. nothing's perfect.
God Damn, what a rush!
Is the Linux community growing by leaps and bounds
or what?
it's gonna be hard to beat the star trek flame war though... let's just give it a rest, okay?
I don't know why, but when I hear that phrase, I feel like retching.
no, jackass, i do NOT use netscape... um except when i'm using win98 to access the net because i haven't figured out ppp dialing under linux yet... never mind i will crawl under a rock now
ps. that babe in the slashdot booth was hot! yow!
The thing with GPL is cool! I just think about how cool the rest of of the world if everything else could be as free. Get the recepie of CocaCola (so I can make my own CocaCola (of course, CocaCola company would have the rights to sell the pre-made soft drink)). I can have the drawings of GM:s latest car and make them better. /dev/null).
I'm also a motorcycle racer. Hope Honda will release the latest specs of their racing engines, so I can compete with the factory guys (and those with big buck$). And Microsoft will release their source code to their excellent GUI and Office Suite (the rest of the source will though be put in
I think a world with free technology (not owned by a company) will make tech dev. much faster, and perhaps a better world!
what the hell is wrong with you people? i just witnessed someone learn something on slashdot, and admit he was wrong in the same post! this ain't right folks!
we need more flames - more inane generalizations - more deathless prose that is not grounded in this or any other reality - demagoguery - lies - hatred.
where is the slashdot i know and love?
they have to release it sooner or later - so they released it - the software can only get better from here on in
That's because you're a slashdot longhair. :-) normal people use GUI's exclusively.
yeah, that is a horribly ugly toolkit. too bad lesstif was obsolete before it was even stable. oh well.
The idea (correct me if I'm wrong) is that by making the printing API part of the windowing environment, you can do cool stuff like treating the printer as a graphics context.
whether that's a good idea is not for me to say... but it's an interesting form of polymorphism that is only made possible by "integrating" the printer api into the desktop environment.
true, but then there are a lot more people working on GNOME than were working on linux in the first few years - and while the project is sexier to the end user, it isn't as involved as kernel hacking.
where can you find this information?
pls tell me, I want to work at RHAD
yeah, if you don't have to worry about silly things like memory protection and hardware abstraction, you can amazing stuff with very little hardware. let's hope the PowerPC amigas bring the days of finely honed code back.
have you forgotten how the KDE people killed the Harmony project? a lot of hackers haven't forgotten and are bearing grudges... we won't be sorry to see the KDE people go down in flames
That sounds cool - can you post details of
your network ?
Well, the last versions of E DOES maximize the windows that way - that is when maximing a windows it fits the whole screen (exepct for the GNOME panel then (if you dont want it to))
So, give E a new SHOT !
Myrridin
Dead, like in, only few million people using it?
I've checked out gnome, i've checked out kde and my next
project (scan app) will be for kde.
Darn, I didn't get it. Well, I'll ask a question instead then.
Have they finally made gmc stable enough for usage now? Last time I tested it, it took about one minute before it died on me. And the little I time I could use it, I didn't like the user interface at all. Just like another Windows Explorer wannabe. Plain old MC has a great user interface, I want the X-version to be the same.
Pay someone to write a piece of code your business really needs. And then GPL the result.
Or donate money to the writers of free software your business uses.
Anyone with a social conscience will be happy to pay a reasonable sum for software that they really use.
But do businesses have social consciences? That's the question.
I caught this message on gnome mailing list :
;-).
>You can expect 1.0 RPMS (the real ones, not the
>pre-release which is up now) to be available on
>Friday at the latest saturday. They should be
>complete, tested and working (of course
This was posted on:
Thu, 04 Mar 1999 12:45:49 +0100
Maybe it is interesting news.
So I would't call that vaporware
You may be Booker... But BookerT you ain't!
/BookerT
Since when do users decide on technical merit and :-}
stability? If they did, 'dows would never have taken off that much...
argathin
twm+xfmail+Nedit+xfm will be THE Corel desktop. ;-)
I can't really see your reasoning. The QPL is more free than the GPL because you can make and distribute closed source binaries for a fee? As you point out yourself, the same thing is possible with the GPL, since the copyright holder can release GPL'd software under any other license they choose.
I seem to remember it going through 9 pre-1.0 versions not 130. 2.1.x was a development series and didn't count. If you're going to count it then you need to count ALL the Gnome alpha and beta versions that have been released as well as the pre-1.0 versions.
So you're running Gnome 1.0 on the less-than-alpha version of Enlightenment and are amazed that it crashed? Have you thought that perhaps your Window manager might be at fault here?
Hmm.. i ain't gonna jump the roof until
:)
Slackware 4.0 is released this summer...
kernel 2.2.*, glibc 2.1.*
a LOT of new thingies... but still not to many
like the other distros has
KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid!)
Where did you get your information? I have talked personally to people at Corel...
He said so at LinuxWorld. Deal with it.
Downloaded Gnome 1.0 (which took half of the rest of eternity since I'm on the wrong side of the atlantic ocean) and installed it without any problems. Seems to work much better than the 0.99.8 (or whatever) I have been using for some time now... Install New Theme seems to work now, too. (This might just have been some error in my old configuration - I don't know)
:-)
:)
So, now I run KDE with the Gnome panel and gmc. Think of it - the power of the KDE desktop with Gnome's features, which are, to say the least, much better coded. Enlightenment rocks, too, but I guess I'm just to much damaged by Mac/Win GUI's to get used to it. *snicker*
Nevertheless, finally I can show all the people saying that Linux (or any other *nix for that matter) can't be userfriendly how wrong they are.
Of course, there's still quite an issue setting everything up, but I guess that'll be fixed with time. I just wanted to say that I am impressed by Gnome and how fast it has developed. The 1.0 version is quite different from the sad/sorry 0.20 version that was included with RedHat 5.2, isn't it?
Give Gnome a try, you probably won't regret it.
-- NeoPup
Well KDE also runs on FreeBSD, Solaris, HP-UX, Digital Unix...
;-)
Gnome is the only desktop limited to Linux and home computers
There is almost no way I can ever hope to download everything I need for GNOME in a few steps. I still plan to try it out though. I just think KDE is better from the obtaining standpoint cuz I don't need to download as many files.
Dave
It's on CVS.
1.0 never crashed for me, but apps like KMail did not always act as expected (lossage and such). This has been fixed, as well as many cool performance enhancements.
ME ME ME! I'm first!
...while Gnome does. Linux is not a cheap and badly written clone of MS-DOS, but Gnome is a cheap and badly written clone of KDE...
Waste of time that could be spent developing something *new*.
Get your facts straight...
1) KDE had Corba and it was used extensively in KOffice before Gnome existed...
2) Corba is now used extensively in KDE's CVS applications.
3) AA is being implemented in the XFree86 server, where it should be.
4) KDE was voted #1 in LJ.
Get a life, jerk.
Gnome C++ bindings absolutely stink. I asked some Gnome programmers about using them to help migrate from KDE programming to Gnome and was told to not even try they are so horrible broken.
It's all you need ;-)
The odd thing is, that this is probably the post that put this thread up to #2 on the HOF.
-- Keith
As soon as the rags really pick up on these pathetic flamewars between KDE and GNOME advocates, Linux will be seen as being splintered and the FUD will fly!
Seeing how badly these two groups of people hate each other, I can say with pretty good confidence that the FUD will actually be justified.
You should all be ashamed of yourselves.
Nevertheless, finally I can show all the people saying that Linux (or any other *nix for that matter) can't be userfriendly how wrong they are. :-)
Why aren't unices user friendly? They are admittedly not as beginner friendly as M$-systems, but when you have learned how to use them, they are as easy to use as any WinXX.
... The ENGLISH may have forgotten their Celtic roots and speak broken German, so might as well use KDE, but Gnome is alive and well in true Ireland.
Troll Tech = Microsoft DOS circa 1989. They will build things on top of QT... just you wait. Then they will be bought by Intel.
Like the Americans show South Park : "With genetic engineering we can fix natures mistakes, like [...]"
Hey there are still some die-hard openlook fans out there - I've used olvwm as my window manager of choice for years, and I think it's great. I've tried plenty of other wms but keep coming back to olvwm. It's not the most featureful WM around, and may not be the most intuitive for the novice, but for me, it lets me do what I need to do with the least fuss. All of the button bars, icons, and soforth of other window managers just get in my way - olvwm give me a right-click popup menu to start programs, controls to close/minimize a window from any point of the window border, and window resize controls at all four corners of the window - very handy indeed. CDE just looks like a second rate MS-Windows knock-off to me, and while other WMs like Enlightenment are certainly much nicer looking, they just aren't as suitable to me for a day-to-day working environment.
Long live Openlook!
I am surprised they have not tried to get a piece of microsoft... yet
No, we shouldn't be ashamed. Both camps have very good points, and it will be an ugly flame war until one wins out. But it will eventually end, and these flame wars keep the information (and mis-information) flying.
While there will always be tons of WM's, I doubt the two DEs will live forever (At least one will greatly out number the other) unless they interoperate (I know, DnD), since ISVs will pick a standard API to use. Of course, even Qt 2.0 will cost $$$ for commercial apps, and GTK is free, so GTK just has to be close, not better.
Flame wars are not bad, just ugly.
-- Keith
In your opinion.
A). Gnome was designed, not written around a proprietary API.
B). KDE was a poor imitation of Windows.
-- Keith
Actually I'm pretty sure it's true.. I'm getting alot of critical gdk error's and most everything crashing randomly. Previously I'd installed 0.98.1 from cvs, and it worked very nice, some things weren't quite as nice as I'd have liked, so I upgraded. Now everything seems quite unstable. =( sigh, I'm just gonna upgrad from CVS in a day or two. if that doesn't work, downgrade to 0.98.whatever and live with that for awhile.
As a fairly experienced slackware
user, I have to agree. Your experiences are
completely analogous to mine. I could never
compile any release of gnome, either with
gcc or egcs.
I think most of the the problems stem from the fact that gnome requires glibc features. Slackware
ships with libc 5, so as things stand, it is
almost impossible to install gnome on a slackware
system, unless you have glibc installed, and
also versions of all the x libraries compiled
against glibc.
The above conclusion is based on discussions with
fellow slackware users who are system programmers
and who have tried to find out why compilations
fail on their system. If we are wrong about this,
I would love to hear it.
BTW. I haven't downloaded GNOME 1.0 yet, waiting for a local .nl mirror get updated. If anyone knows one that already is (linux.a2000.nl isn't) let me know. Drag & drop should go a long way into improving/enhancing the user experience!!!
If you'll be doing C(++), just use wxWindows,
and then you can run today on GNOME, Mac and Win32
and whatever else might be supported in the future.
Or is everyone a member of Gnome-hackers ;-) It's just that Gnome does not tell you that there is a core group of developers.
I prefer the honest approach...
I'll bet Monica Lewinsky is really a Red Hat employee, too.
I hear she just got an apartment in Redmond, Washington.
Corel won't fill the gap. They have financial problems (at least for now). They seem to have misled many people into believing that they will port their apps to run natively on Linux. The only reason WP 8 runs on Linux is because sdcorp had the vision to do so. Corel doesn't have the resources to fund native porting work of other products, or even of WP 9x to Linux. If their apps show up on Linux, it will be through wine.
Corel is merely trying to ride the Linux bandwagon. If it works, good for them. They won't provide a nice desktop by themselves, but they may use gnome, and even contribute usability improvements.
Gnome is the answer for a nice desktop, IMHO.
Have you ever dragged and dropped? I mean everyone talks about it, and I see some techies do it. But every end-user I've seen does cut/copy & Paste, since getting two windows next to each other is too difficult for most end-users.
And I have not found anyone dropping a word document onto a word icon (since double-click works fine).
-- Keith
DOS 3.4 Did not exist.
It went ms-dos 3.3 to ms-dos 4.0.
ibm's pc-dos floated in there for a
bit, too, but no such thing.
The hype-powers to be sure know how to play their audience.
I don't like things on my desktop taking up room---except for a pager. And for me, the pager applet inside the panel (the only way to use a pager in E or WM, as far as I can tell) is too small.
But, I agree that having the panel stretch all the way across the screen is requiring much too much realestate. I know you can close it, but that's just not reasonable if you plan to use the pager applet. So, I guess I'd like to see the capability of opening the panel just halfway, or less. Is it possible?
Let the battle commence.
My opinion so far:
GNOME 1.0: Gives you a pretty screen to stare at or impress
your friends with;
KDE 1.1: Lets you get work done efficiently and in a
pleasant way.
I am serious about this.
I'm not Joe-6-pack and I'm not a newbie. So what can GNOME do for me?
I see that there is gnumeric and I wouldn't mind having a lightweight spreadsheet. But that can exist without GNOME. It could even use gtk and not be GNOME, like the GIMP I find so handy.
I guess there's probably a start-menu and another version of xpat (gpat?) and maybe even an xcalc replacement. Who needs 'em?
So, please, can someone tell me what GNOME is for? I am not trolling. I am sincerely puzzled by it. My impression is that it's to entice people from Windows to Linux. Am I wrong?
Lets see how fast this post gets censored while a nearly identical anti-KDE post above does not.
Anyone who thinks just because the KDE GUI doesn't support as many bindings and for that reason you are forced to program your entire project in C++ is a loser or a FUD f*ker.
I find it hard to believe that they consider this 1.0 calibre. I can only compare this side-by-side with KDE 1.0 (not 1.1). KDE 1.0 had it's fair share of bugs, but it was pretty damn stable...doing 'normal' things (creating folders on desktop, dragging and dropping, adding stuff to kpanel) did not crash KDE 1.0.
I tried putting Gnome "1.0" through the same simple tests...what a miserable experience. The panel crashed and crashed and crashed just adding launchers and drawers. GMC is terrible...beyond the crashing it consistantly loses touch with the desktop (DND stops working, the GMC 'root' window menu refuses to appear).
Enlightenment is still more of a boat anchor than a benefit right now. The 'shipped' version of enlightenment crashed out when I ran the gnome-penguin toy. That's not a big deal...the E-configure program, however, refuses to run at all...just a core dump. The Gnome configurator crashes a lot too...going into the 'window manager' section brings up a big blank panel (and if you check the logs you can see that it core dumped...not nice).
ESound is still pretty bad. I use e-sound 'networked' (ie it runs on another machine from where I'm logging in). The sound is broken up, and frequently just stops playing altogether. Again, very very unpolished (but hey, it was shipped as 0.2.8...)
I could go on, but you slashdot flamers don't seem to care about the details. Gnome was released as 1.0 far ahead of schedule. This is a pity. The Gnome project has easily fallen prey to it's own bullshit.
Note, this is NOT a flame against Gnome. I do NOT 'hate' Gnome. I happily switch between KDE and Gnome all the time...why be religious about it? I feel Gnome is very important, though, and I now feel that they've really hurt their credibility with this shoddy 1.0 release...it will NOT help the reputation of Linux to showcase it with such an unstable environment. Go check linuxtoday.com...look at all the press Gnome has generated in the last 24 hours. Do you honestly think Gnome can live up to that in it's current crashprone state? Personally, I do not. I like KDE because it is rock stable...going back to a crashing environment for regular work is a real pain in the ass. Just wait until pundits like Jesse Berst get ahold of it...how do you think they are going to respond when the panel keeps crashing out on basic operations? This will just generate lots of bad press.
Sigh...
You should all be ashamed of yourselves.
/. Can't we all just shut up?
No kidding. It's really pathetic how emotional people are about which WM/desktop to use, or weather to use one at all. I'm sick of the, if-you-don't-think-the-way-I-do-you're-an-idiot posters here on
In fact WM has support for KDE.
No, but without it it kinda sucks. Less intigration than gnome without a wm.
Duh, what a disappointment. I thought gmc was one of the most important parts of Gnome. But okay, I guess gmc is considered to be a separate program, not a part of Gnome. It's a Gnome compliant filemanager, nothing more. If not, then it's to early to release Gnome as version 1.0 now.
Just because TT is doing a port of Opera, suddenly Opera is going to be KDEs default web browser?
WRONG.
Give it up you FUDifying loser.
GNOME losers need to learn to turn their anti-MS skills elsewhere.
This is unbeliveable. Something stupid enough to post this shouldn't be allowed to continue to draw breath.
I really liked E13, but I could crash it on demand (I have some binary, commercial applications which would crash E13 every time I tried to execute them.)
/.-- hard to remember.)
The pager in the old Enlightenment wa excellent. I've seen a wannabe pager in the BeOS theme for enlightenment, but it doesn't count as more than a "desktop switching button" like in xfce, cde, etc...
And if we're reminiscing, don't you recall how Rob wrote all those great enlightenment extras instead of slashdot? (maybe "in addition" to
For the record, I hate gnome and kde, too.
Have *you* ever dragged and dropped?
Drag & drop is not limited to dropping documents onto their program icon. You can drag & drop text, drag and drop components (when building stuff). Most interesting is drag & drop of URL's. It's much faster than cutting and pasting the URL from one program to another. And with desktops getting larger and larger (currently working in 1600x1200) it's not that difficult to have multiple applications open side by side.
KEEP THE FOOT.. IT IS MY ONLY REASON FOR LIVING
YES
Well ive installed the full gnome one-point-oo deal, and i must say ive had hardly any of your unpleasant experiances .. its been more then great to me!!
.. thats the only downside.. but applets, conf (e and gnome-conf) all work great, enlightenment finaly stands up against windowmaker and all others! its fully configurable to the point it almost behaves like WindowMaker on my box, but with a better look and speed, and great gnome intergration!
... enough for the shameless plugs, but the bottom line for me, its a great envirioment, which is more then a desktop-gui, its a application enabling layer, which also has some build in applications, so dont judge it on just what it looks like (however good it is) but also keep in mind it allows the next generation of unix apps that can match with windows and mac etc any day!!
Panel works fine, for the most things, but yes GMC is buggy as hell and crashy
Code is small, lean mean and
You are too a TROLL. Anyone who can't see the benefit of GNOME and KDE straight away is a TROLL-dumby and a Dumby-newbie.
As the subject says, when?
--
"Debbie does Debian"
What I wouldn't give to have JonKatz' password.
I'd post an article with a title like, "Americans unilaterally dump GNOME for Gnulix... and by the way your mom is dead. Ha ha, just kidding"
It'd be the ultimate flame war dood.
You should be bashing on GNOME, which has real stability problems,
and has an aweful design. Someone told me that they
don't even use C++ in their main library, which is obviously
a big design problem. They also have no clue about COBRA - the GNOME COBRA people are clueless.
A stupid, obvious post.
I agree completely. I don't think this "stable" release of GNOME will hold up. GMC is definately the biggest load of shit they included in the package. It crashed consistently while I was using it. Creating items on my desktop became a nuisance and eventually lead to my system crashing which has only happened twice before. I think I'll just stick with WindowMaker by itself. Who needs drag'n'drop anyway?
WTF is up with GNOME defaulting to that bloated piece of crap
E?
If I wanted that much bloat, I'd go back to that Win98 thingy.
When will the Gnome crew pull their head out of their ass and see that their product SUCKS!
MEEPT has no place here... What's the story
there anyway? I see references to MEEPT being
a common poster but don't see it that much
myself. Did I come to this part too late?
We gay people have much more taste than to use something horribly ugly like Gnome ;-)
Ok, I've downloaded the whole of Gnome over CVS. I go to gnome-libs/HACKING and it tells me to run autogen.sh. autogen.sh contains:
srcdir=`dirname $0`
...
. $srcdir/macros/autogen.sh
There is no macros directory in gnome-libs. Do I symlink the one from gnome-common?
Is there documentation on how to do this?
Tell me one system other than Linux it has been used sucessfully on?
None.
Don't believe the FUD that RH and Gnome spreads...
Then code your own solution instead of complaining about it. I'm sure you could whip something out in a couple of months since you sound like you know everything.
For a dead project there sure is a hell of a lot of coding going on and a heck of a lot of users...
yeah! makes sense to me!
This is even worse than windoze.
Some things crashed when I was not doing anything, not
clicking or moving the mouse or typing. Just a window
spontaniously disappearing and dumping core. That's a
new experience for me.
But I do like the look of some details, especially the lila
ribbed sliders in one of the themes. Gnome certainly has
potential but I figure it will take considerable time to iron
out the bugs. Compare it for example to the Gimp 1.0 - that
one took a year to debug. Gnome uses primarly the the same
foundation ( C & GTK+) but it's much more complex so it
might be a while before we see a Gnome that works really
well.
Kpanel starts in seconds, has better D'nD, and is better integrated with the file manager.
Gnome's panel is a joke as far as functionality is concerned.
Considering Gnome just had a unstable 1.0 release yesterday, then Gnome has been irrelevant for the past year...
"COBRA"?
muahahahahahahahaha
The Gnome supporters at SlashDot must really be desperate for attention if they won't post any new news stories.
Read up on your KDE history. Several applications are ports of/contain code from programs *NOT WRITTEN BY THE KDE AUTHORS*, to which they have *NOT OBTAINED ANY PERMISSION TO LINK AGAINST QT*. Nobody's in the clear, since they *CANNOT CHANGE LICENSING ON OTHER PEOPLES CODE*.
This has been rehashed so many times it's silly. If they had indeed licensed their own code anyway they felt like nobody would care. They have, however, done what they wish with other people code without permission. Can you figure out why some people are rather upset? Especially since rather than say 'sorry, we'll remove the code, it wont happen again' they try every bullshit argument they can think of to keep the stolen code.
Because it remains hard to set it up. I've got over 20 years of experience with systems ranging from RCA 1802 chips (programming in machine code with 256 bytes of RAM) through high-end UNIX systems. I don't have the time to mess with RPM under RedHat, trying to figure out why the oh-so-simple Gnome installation instructions result in nothing but error messages about 'dependencies'. It's probably easier to compile the damn thing from source -- assuming that all of the pieces are available, of course. KDE was fairly simple to get running under FreeBSD, but trying to figure out why the help system always bombed out was more trouble than I cared to invest at the time.
Being a family man now, I don't want to spend all of my off-hours tinkering with a system to get it 'mostly working'. At my current billable rate, it's far cheaper to live with the occasional reboot necessary under Windows 98.
As a non-graphical server, Linux is ok, but there is a LONG way to go before I would consider it as the 'prime desktop' system.
In the KDE Control Center, you can find Autohide at Desktop:Applications:Options. I think it looks cool when Delay and Speed are set to their lowest values.
>4 years is a godforsaken eternity. Four years ago Linux couldn't run X, let alone a desktop.
Couldn't run X? What the hell was *I* doing wrong then...
Troll.
I wonder if the next KDE release will cause SlashDot to stop posting new stories.
KDE was able to get it's vastly larger user base by code quality, not FUD and marketing tatics by it's fans.
All signs that the Gnome project is inferior.
all of you people that don't like gnome and such are complete idiots. HElLo LeTS iNSTAll GnoME OvEr all of our DEVELOPMENT LIBS, LIKE GTK 1.1 and the gnome DEVEL stUFF cAUSE WERE ELITE NON-DEVELOPERS THAT USE DEVELOPERS RELEASES and We DoNt ExPeCT any cRASHES!
GET A CLUE YOU FREAKING IGNORANT MONKEYS. it has NO problems on NORMAL systems that aren't bogged down and confused with so many development libs. freaking idiots installing all the horse manure releases. and then yuo dont even uninstall them, MAKE UNINSTAL YO. or at least rm -f, SHEESH. freaking dumbasses, i'm suprised there are ~500 IDIOTS that use linux, which can be seen posting on slashdot
the "real world" that doesnt use linux thinks linux is for teenagers and such, well for all of you TEENAGERS, i've got to say G R O W T H E F S C K U P.
MY GOD. EVERYONE HAS BETTER THINGS TO DO THAN FIGHT OVER WHAT DESKTOP SUITE IS BETTER. MY GOD YOU FREAKING JOKES, PATHETIC EXCUSES FOR LINUX USERS.
Not everyone has access to a T1 to download all the crap Gnome requires.
Actually, enlightenment is almost the only component of the 1.0 distribution that hasn't crashed on me. The panel has, the file manager has, and numerous applets/accessories have. By your arguments, they shouldn't have included the "less than alpha" version of englightenment in the "stable" 1.0 version of gnome.
don't worry, the story will be up for at least six more hours... plenty of time
eventually, the article gets closed to further comments. so someone can indeed get the last comment.
Also, I tried using gnome with windowmaker and the panel still crashed just as often. Stop making excuses for gnome's crappy stability. You're beginning to sound like a certain someone from redmond.
meept was a brilliant poet/jester who got under slashdotter's skins. unfortunately his account got cancelled and now all we have are lame imitators. who is the real meept? nobody knows.
damn right, it's about damn time the idiots that dont have anything better to do than bitch about this to grow up.
it's pretty sad to see that linux now has the complete moron users, those that resemble the "WaReZ CoUrIeRz" and call themselves "WiNdOwS HaX0R0R0r0r0r0rs"
:[
They must have borrowed ms code to write solitaire...
Gnome did not need to be designed in order to have to rely on so many external dependencies. KDE is proof of that.
The fact that it was == more complexity, chance of error, less portability, and larger total file requirements.
hello uneducated idiot. why don't you read the post above yours in the list. you fit well into the moron catagory.
you fall into the moron catagory also.
you fall into the moron catagory also
you fall into the moron catagory
cvs -z3 get
macros is a virtual dir.
Just how much crack did YOU smoke this morning?
Thank You!
Anyone that uses fsck as a profanity is a newbie idiot...
is to chip in and help. At the very least, help by bug tracking and reporting.
Warnings?
You're just being a fool and riling up a bunch
of people for no reason at all.
Get a new hobby.
The GNOME people may well be using *COBRA* instead
a hahahahahahaha...
of *CORBA*.
COBRA means snake in Portuguese. Does GNOME smell of snake oil!
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
Sorry, but Unix != Linux != RedHat. Please try to get a clue before flaming.
"you fall into the moron catagory also"
Breeders confuse me even more now...
The US-Mexican Gnome project is known to demand the death penalty for all of its critics.
Thus Amnesty International strongly urges all computer users to boycot Gnome.
I have no conflicting Libs, I've removed all the devel gtk/gdk and glib libs, and everything else before installing. gnome 0.98.1 was quite stable, actually never crashed. But now, I can consistently get gnome to crash by hitting a cancel button in certain windows. Not fun stuff, obviously there needs to be a feature freeze point, but that shouldn't be on the 1.0 release.
There are some substantial problems in this release, and they're new the gnome as of about 2 weeks. I just am upset that I will probably have to downgrade for awhile..
We like software that's fucked up...
lol, scared? who wants to waste time loggin in and all that bull. AcCEPT cOOKIE FROM BLAH BLAH, screw that.
you call everyone kiddies, yet i would bet you 1 million dollars you are a freshmen or sophomore in high school. skipping no less. what an idiot
That's plain bullshit. Without a special wm there's just no integration at all with Gnome. Same applies to KDE.
As a KDE fan I figured I would try Gnome to see the competition. GMC crashed almost immediately, as did the help and terminal...
:)
By making this release 1.0 for marketing reasons instead of actually being stable, Gnome has done more for the KDE project than anyone else could..
Thanks, Gnome team
that's the gist of it
First post!
and who made you the god of whatever people say is lame, i'd prefer to see FSCK and not FUCK.
FUCKING IDIOT.
Choice is not a bad thing, free software that is badly designed whose sole purpouse of being is to try to wipe out other free software (as Gnome's stated reason is) is bad.
Especially when this free software project uses MicroSoft tatics like releasing a "stable" product version for marketing reasons when it is more of alpha quality code.
It's stupid straight people!
KDE 1.1 needs considerably less memory then KDE 1.0 (which ate more RAM than Beta 3).
It is also faster in many respects (esp. kfm)
IMHO its extremely nice that the KDE developers have improved efficiency instead of adding bloat, as it is the usual way...
hey dude whats COBRA, just shows that u r a clueless troll, get a life...COBRA, hehehe, that was funny...
He said it is runnable on any "normal" Linux system. It is not without major effort unless you are on RH.
I didn't start using linux for it GUI. I think this release needs alot of debugging, and should've been put off until it was back to it's very usable stable state. Which actually it was at in CVS about two weeks earlier. People are being horribly silly about this whole thing, yeah gnome it getting too much press recently. It's not the most important thing in the world, and actually linux would do fine without it. =) so we're SUNK is a little off key, I believe. I think I should stop reading posts on slashdot, the people are often acting too childish, and it's starting to get to me. =)
enough for now.
hehe, an Irish person cutting down an American... Talk when your major exports are not peat moss and beer.
Go to http://filewatcher.org/
and you will find what you're looking for!
I think you missed it by...Oh.. about 700! :P
also its not without effort if you KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING, like this person obviously does. poor misguided soul, die.
I do not want to take part in the issue of X vs Y,
but the maintainers must be aware of that people
will loose confidence (I have). Okay, the core will
remain but they will always be a minority.
Have you tried the new 1.1 version of KDE? Its definitely faster on low-end, low-mem machines!
If KDE 1.0 runs *really* slow, KWM may have a problem with your Gfx card. The KWM version shipped with KDE 1.0 uses a Gfx card feature some newer cards dont support. So displaying is extremely slow.
Its fixed in later versions.
The whole issue seems to be how KDE was so much more stable at 1.0 then Gnome is.
IRIX. Check out the screenshots on gnome.org.
I love it when people do newbie things like type in caps...
Thanks for proving my point.
"also its not without effort if you KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING, like this person obviously does"
Why thank you. I do know what I am doing. Try compiling it on Slack.
Or even better FreeBSD and Digital Unix.
If I remember correctly, the English are descended from the Angles and Saxons, two German tribes (Angle-land = England). The original Romanized Celtic inhabitants were driven into Wales.
Ya know. Red $at The owners of Linux and Linux developers.
libjpg, libpng (in kdesupport)
libkfm, libkdeui, libkdecore, libkfile (in kdelibs)
qt
That's all that is required for KDE.
Like a working file manager and a terminal that does not have buffer overruns...
Releasing a me-too GNOME that fails to compile (so much for Open Source) and a binary that fails to work (yeah, cant compile it, Open Source wins again) is a joke. Just 'cos GNOME is kewl and Open Source and Red Hat sponsors it (with lotsa cash) doesnt make it any good
Use KDE. Use Windows. The source code is useless if it DOESNT COMPILE TO THE RELEASE BINARY.
Another forking scam.
How can I make GMC not creating those stupid
icons on my screen? Another question, if you
run panel from a xterm, it gives tons of of warning messages (really annoying).
As for esound, I just can't make it work. it
always complain about some error (dma/irq)
although the systems works fine with other
sound applications.
i already did on digital unix, for my computer science department, where i am employed. i enjoy working on DU all day. hello, are you an idiot?
How about Solaris, HP-UX, Digital Unix, and SCO. KDE runs on all those, as well as Irix...
Whenever you read about them its some RedHat guys and Miguel who are obviously making the decisions.
Inn the recent interviews they have also this annoying personality cult around Miguel which is just ingenuous.
I can understand it in Linus case, but Miguel is just somebody who split the KDE project and contributed a lot to Gnome. All the ballihooing around him degrades the other contributors.
That just makes me throw up.
At least the KDE core members try to keep a low profile and mention the contributions of others.
(And yes, there *could* be a personality cult around Matthias Ettrich(founder) or Thorben Weis (KFM, Corba components, KOffice) as well, if they wanted...)
This was released *way* too early for LinuxWorld...
COBRA is the object archiecture that GNOME pretends to use. I cannot believe that you are trying to flame me without being aware of the basic technology that KDE makes better use of than GNOME ever will.
I am not a troll, you just do not know what you are talking about. Go read the web site!!!
You have that backwards, gtk developers are the ones that resist the changes.
I had to think immediatly of the quote of F. van Kempen
about Redhat: "Basically they just threw cash at me."
Perhaps Redhat threw cash at the GNOME campaign
as well. There is so much more publicity then the actual
code warrants that one can only conclude that something
strange is going on.
How come gnome-hackers is the only gnome list
without a link to the ml archive? Or is that
just to protect the innocent?
Ive never heard FUD from KDE people (at least not for a very long time), and definitely not to the same degree it happens from the Gnome side.
Your assumption that some KDE people killed Harmony is utter bullshit! The Harmony mailing list is still on lists.kde.org, and all that happened is that Coolo (CVS guy) said he needed to clean up CVS which was running on his University account. So he kicked all projects where there were no commits for a long time out of CVS (Harmony among others). You can still get the sources if you want, and set up an own CVS server.
Many KDE developers wanted eventually to use Harmony, but now that Qt is Open Source, many Harmony developers moved over to KDE/Qt development.
Dont mix up TrollTech/Qt and KDE!!
And dont spread such FUD yourself!
Does anyone know what this TROLL is saying?
I can't understand a word of that garbage.
This is great and will all the GTK based software become full gnome compliant software?
... because now we have WAY more people trying it out just because of the version number, and this way there will be far more bug reports. This will help development... People are too concerned over what version numbers mean.. Realistically we have to keep in mind that this software is FREE and we should be greatful for it!..
Well this post has certainly gotten all you TROLLS out there off your butts. These are the people who said that "KDE's not perfect, but at least it's here."
Well, I guess GNOME isn't pre-release anymore. It's not perfect, but it's gone through so many 0.99.x releases, there is really not much reason to hold back the release.
We're going for the big 1000 here -- so
KDE rUl3z
GNOME 5ux...
Flame here as much and as loudly as possibly,
and maybe just maybe we'll make it
Anyone else have this trouble? I'm using a recent libc5 distribution, and have compiled and installed a good 50% of things. Finally, I compiled gnome-libs, but during make install, gnome-gen-mimedb segfaults. I've compiled it three times now, once on another machine, so hardware errors during compilation are ruled out.
I'd really prefer not to have to go in and try to debug this thing myself. I want to give gnome 1.0 a try, but not that badly.
maybe you're just too stupid.
hahaha. You don't know what you're talking about.
The reasons C was used in favor over C++ are good. First of all, C is more efficient, making the software faster (Gnome is faster than KDE if you remove the debugging symbols). The second is that C++ is not a standard, it's a work-in-progress, probably never to be finalized by ANSI. Because of this, C++ is generally non-portible, and requires more over-head for compilation on other platforms. Finally, C++'s OO design is grossly incomplete, and inconsistant. Using pointers in C actually gives you more OO flexibility, and more consistancy.
Finally, Corba. RHAD Labs have worked on Gnome's Corba implimentation (AKA Orbit) vigorously. It is complete to the extent that it is used in Gnome, and the only Corba implimentation that is C-based and free. KDE, in contrast, used a COM-like system (borred from Windows), which is not only less efficient, it is less robust, and less efficient.
You are clearly not well informed. Before you reduce the Linux community to FUD, consider learning to program, learning Gtk+ (or, if you prefer C++, Gtk--), Qt, and something actually about Corba, distributed computing/middleware, and its competition (COM/DCOM & OLE Variants), Xerox technologies).
In conclusion, KDE had a running start, by using existing - but technically inferior - technologies, such as Qt (which mandates they use C++), COM/DCOM/OLE, and HTML-based helpsystems, etc (Gnome uses SGML/DocBook DTD). KDE is a fine effort, and worth recognition. In contrast, Gnome is designed with a goal of having powerful software, not a quick release. Thus, they developed their own technologies as computer scientists. In the future, it will be interesting to see whether Gnome and KDE will get along well. I'd expect applications to eventually have wrappers, allowing them to compile on both.
Now, isn't that better than being a mis-informed idiot?
you was flamed cause u sed COBRA not CORBA, repeatedly, first one being a snake, second being a distributed objects request broker, and yes you still have no clue what corba actually is dude, i can tell from the post that you just read about COBRA (CORBA) in some trade mag...
If you can't get gnome to compile or are having crashes, make sure your versions are up to date. That means basically every rh 5.2 update + anything that has been released up until yesterday.
Go away. This space intentially left blank.
Ah yes, going for the 1000+ comments.
:^)
-- Keith
Slackware 3.6 comes with some kind of glibc support. I am no linux expert so I don't know much about it but glibc binaries do run on Slackware 3.6. I once sucessfully installed glibc 2.06 on Slackware 3.4. It worked... alright. But then when I recompiled the kernel, SVGA apps (svgalib and X) wouldn't work at all. It was bizarre. I am sure Slackware 4.0 will be completly glibc based and will blow RedCrap out of the water!
Downloaded and installed the RPM packages on a ThinkPad 600 with RH5.2 and:
- latest RPM updates from RH (incl XFree86-3.3.3.1)
- Kernel 2.2.2ac4
And when I start X, the Xserver starts and exists again, and all I have to show for my trouble is a nice core file.
videochipset is the NeoMagic 2160 with 2MB (in case that makes a difference).
ahh well... back to AfterStep. Or perhaps install KDE (worked great last time I tried it on the machine).
Gnome have compiled for me since the first begining, so dont come here and talk shit, learn how to compile first you faggot!
My god, when did they let all the morons go out and play.
OO is a concept. Hell, i can do OO in assembly.
/. is now the refgue for clueless buttmunches and flamewars
Hell, get with something that's a standard. CDE
And if you dont like the bloat, you always have UDE
DUH! GNOME sucks. So does KDE, because it's CD player is a piece of crap. CDDB blocks, it crashes if you move the volume when there's no cd in the drive.
Anyway, my point here is to proselytize the wonderful SLOTH desktop. No more crashes!
Which was about library requirements...
"chump"
Oh bite me you whining Gnome/Kde/whatever luser!
GNULIX 4EVER DUDES!
31337!
;)
Just to make the thread more useless ;-)
I'm an HP-UX sysadmin and it DOES run on HP-UX.
Get over the red-hat thing. They'll soon have more than their share of competition from Corel.
Yeah, that's right, just hold your hands over your ears and yell 'gnome is not portable'. And keep on doing it. And cover your eyes too, I'd suggest.
Me, I'll be happily running GNOME on HP-UX 10.20, Solaris and Linux with no problem.
HAHA!
LAST POST d00dz!
1'M t00 kewl!
It seems to me dude, that you have not ever written any major programs in C++. Maybe tryed couple of times and: bullshit. Wrong conclusion. ;)
Yes I know it is so easy to shit on things you don't understand, or
so it seems to me. C++ is far superior to plain C
and possibly the most greatest reason everybody are
using C is because it is yes portabl but the main reason is
that most of the geeks don't understand it
When you claim that C++ is inefficient in object
orientation and C is good then: you are an idiot.
I cannot add any more comment. Sorry for the rude words but someone
had to tell you that. Your sincere AC. Using lynx from year '52.
While I agree with most of what you said, I think that you are wrong about the C++ standard. It HAS been finalized, if only recently. I don't have links (sorry), but if you dig around in all the usual places you will find the official and complete standard.
-posting anonymously because I forgot who I am
FLWM is cool. Works right after you compile it. Looks pretty good and is only a 53k download.
Found it on freshmeat one day and been using it ever since.
In fact, I'll teach your grandmother to suck eggs!
Ph34r m3 4nd sh1+
LOL too bad i know where you live and all that info too, scott, stop playing around your 15 or 16 now that goes to some lame high school in new york.
Since the Unix community obviously can't make up their mind what a user interface should look like, I guess I'll let the gang in Redmond TELL me.
Hee hee. This is part of the greatness of X Windows -- I pick whatever UI I want. How cool is that?
#1 in hof with over 800 comments, not visits.
you can't lie very well.
I just set it up as my DE.
It shaved my cat.
It pissed on the seat.
It erased my hard drive and posted nude pictures of my mother on alt.barney.die.die.die.
It installed Windows 3.0 and made me set up a SLIP connection to my ISP.
It changed all of my telephones to rotary dial.
I hate GNOME.
Right now I'm currently running OLVWM on my sun and AfterStep on my Linux laptop.
AfterStep is much harder to use than OLVWM. I still haven't figured out that god-dammed WHARF.. What the hell is that? How do I do stuff with it?
OLVWM works great, though. So simple.
-bobby, who might just be too stupid...
Which one does contains most lines of code? KDE or Gnome?
Gnome is written in C, while KDE in C++. KDE has been around for a longer period of time, but Gnome has had paid fulltime programmers working on it.
Who is the winner? The one with most lines of code or the one with least?
--
"This post suck bad!"
I mean what exactly do I gain from using Gnome? I'm pretty pleased with using plain WindowMaker, it does what I want it to do. I want my desktop to be clean and uncluttered, just like now.
/. readers are trolls." - D.H.
Why do I want to run Gnome? I'm sure that I can find a reason, give me one.
--
"39% of the
that the last statement you made was also a lie. :)
You will not get it, I will. And the debs won't come any time near, you dream on.
BTW, how much does a copy of Gnome cost?
How come I have 5.1 based server running samba, apache, squid
and KDE-1.1 with a uptime of 112 days now (2.0.35 kernel) with
over 30 users on smb shares and ~10 users on KDE with Exceed
sessions constantly. Doesn't feel so buggy to me.
> Good to see someone else remembers the original Windows Alternative(tm).
Alternative? GEM on the ST was there when there was some 286 (or x86?) which had no GUI at all!
And guess what, my ATARI 260 ST is still running, doing wordprocessing with Signum and all that stuff.
> Once QT is released under the QPL, this all becomes moot, because it'll already be free, and TT can't take it back.
Actually, Qt 2.0 beta is already there, under the QPL. You can download it, install it and they can't (and won't) take it back.
> First of all, C is more efficient, making the software faster
Generally, C is not more efficient. It's as efficient as the developer is skilled. No difference to C++.
> The second is that C++ is not a standard, it's a work-in-progress, probably never to be finalized by ANSI.
ANSI C++ standard was released about half a year ago, or so.
> Because of this, C++ is generally non-portible, and requires more over-head for compilation on other platforms.
Wow, getting your non-facts together and trying to invent some more?
> Finally, C++'s OO design is grossly incomplete, and inconsistant. Using pointers in C actually gives you more OO flexibility, and more consistancy.
Ah right, C is the OO language, I must have forgotten why C++ was invented.
> Finally, Corba. RHAD Labs have worked on Gnome's Corba implimentation (AKA Orbit) vigorously. It is complete to the extent that it is used in Gnome, and the only Corba implimentation that is C-based and free.
> KDE, in contrast, used a COM-like system (borred from Windows), which is not only less efficient, it is less robust, and less efficient.
Ooouuups, last I checked, baboon (or whatever it's called) is that OLE2 ripoff, and KOM/OpenParts from KDE is designed after OpenDoc.
> You are clearly not well informed. Before you reduce the Linux community to FUD, consider learning to program, learning Gtk+ (or, if you
If you code as well as well as you're informed, I see why that GNOME 1.0 release is flawed.
> Now, isn't that better than being a mis-informed idiot?
Who is looking like an idiot, now?
I am all for Gnome, but I think everyone should support also other GPL projects like GnuStep
Hey, that's the first time my real name appears on Slashdot! :)
It's not just a question of being greatful or not, it's a question of professional ethic.
Oh, and based on the comments today I should add
that anybody who even considers wearing a tie is
not a true geek.
After quite some time I did manage to get gnome to compile on my customized slackware box but not easily.
;)
First gnome-gen-mimedb _always_ segfaults no matter what GCC options one uses. I ended up getting the compiled mime.dat file or whatever from the rpm.
Secondly I _never_ was able to get configure to correctly put in -lintl in the LIBS, so I always got the stupid gettext linking bugs.
For every single gnome package after configuring I had to run a perl one liner that put in the missing library.
After all this, and being careful to compile things in order, gnome has been compiled (it seems) successfully and it runs decently on my machine.
WMaker is way faster than E, but I like the translucent moving thing
As per making gnome my startup environment, well, I think I'll wait a while and just use my good old WindowMaker.
> Whenever you read about them its some RedHat
> guys and Miguel who are obviously making the
> decisions.
Miguel makes the final overall decisions because he's the project founder and leader. People who maintain parts of the code make decisions about that code. The Red Hat guys do show up in the press a lot but that's because the press likes having a bunch of people to get sound bites from all in one place.
> Inn the recent interviews they have also this
> annoying personality cult around Miguel which is
> just ingenuous. I can understand it in Linus
> case, but Miguel is just somebody who split the
> KDE project and contributed a lot to Gnome.
Miguel did not "split" the KDE project, he was never in it (as far as I know). He hasn't just "contributed a lot to Gnome", he started the project, motivated large numbers of contributors, and contributed huge amounts of code. He is to GNOME as Linus is to Linux.
He has a long history with free software, too, before GNOME - he's done a bunch of work on Linux, including stuff for the Sun and SGI ports, and wrote mc and a bunch of other stuff. I've met him in person too, and he is a very friendly, unassuming person. He deserves all the respect he gets.
> All the ballihooing around him degrades the
> other contributors.
I've never heard any of them complain.
- Maciej Stachowiak
Cause it's a closed list for infrastructure
discussions. IMO, it should be archived, as I've never seen anyhing there not fit for public conumption (except maybe some flames people would rather keep private).
- Maciej
Your right on suprax! That other person is full of bullshit. You hav many good points and I respect you. The other anonymous Coward, get a freaking life dood, Go back to Fucking kindergarden! asshole!
The first 100 or posts on this topic were remarkably civil. In fact, the GNOME release discussion was so mellow I dared to hope the KDE-GNOME flamewars might be ending.....Not! I'll remember to take into account whether the High School lamers and flamers have had time to get home from detention before I think such a stupid thing again.
.20 to .30 and lately to .99.8. Each release was markedly improved over the previous and I have no reason to doubt it will work as well as KDE in time. I'm running KDE 1.1 and experience some irritations like Kmid running slowly and hitching just as it did when KDE was a pre-release. KDE is admittedly far more stable than GNOME at this point but I've played with flaky KDE prereleases that didn't feel any more stable than GNOME does now.
1.0 is just a number and I think I'll give GNOME a while longer to resolve some of the irritating problems it no doubt still has before relying on it as one of my desktops. Flaming aside, I've watched it progress from
When GNOME gets a little more stable, I'll install it and it's libraries and both environments. I'm really more interested in good applications and there are good apps for both environments. If we have to hurl bombs then let's save our energy for the Evil Kingdom in Redmond.
The winner is the one that a given user likes the :)
most. What everyone else thinks is irrelevent.
Bastard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are an ugly SOB
Contribute code instead of whining about "Mommy GNOME 1.0 is premature......"
...kakya, blya raznitsa? Odin khui nifiga ne raboatayet.
Blyadskii Gnomy - karliki.
Zabeite ikh sebe v gudok.
Blin.
Khuyeovyi den'.
Odno khorosho - teplo tut u nas... Ne sranyi Cornell tebe. Prilichnoye mesto.
Please! Another 135 message flameware!!!
do it !
Even though this article has the most comments by far (for now... *shudder*) you will notice it doesn't show up on the top ten frequently viewed articles.
My theory is that most people don't give a flying fuck about this issue (GNOME vs. KDE) and that the flame wars are fueled by a small number of zealots.
In other words, the immense "interest" in GNOME vs. KDE exhibited on Slashdot is NOT representative of Slashdot readers.
Make of my analysis what you will...
And the commenting continues!
> Make of my analysis what you will...
Make crap out of crap? Easy
May not DOS 3.4, but I have copies of both DRDOS 3.41 and 3.42. Not everything DOS comes from Microsoft.
Personally, I assumed he just had a weird name.
John P.
GMC is the only part in GNOME that totally sucks ass!!! What'd you expect if you graft an amateuristic GTK+ interface on top of a cloned DOS program?
E is a very good window manager, except for the default theme, which is terrible. The buttons get in the way of ABSOLUTELY everything. I'm glad that people have taken the initiative of writing better themes (the eMac theme is GREAT... even though I can't stand using a Mac, the interface is very nice looking) that don't have those goddam buttons.
Matt Spong
spong@wam.umd.edu
http://deadzone.student.umd.edu/
one of those morons again keep saying others are stupid.
I agree.
At the start, it was pretty good, I used it a bit.
Now they have the tree and that stupid desktop folder that I don't use at all yet I can't get rid of.
Running console MC is much better.
Anyone else remember Gary Gnu?
Speed Reader, Speed Reader!
Go Great Space Coaster!
Man I can't believe how many dumb posts over this 1.0 release. Watch you'll see some story on ZDNET about a big war in the Linux community . Of course it was nothing more than some Slashdot flames. Any ways, I just can't believe how many posts there are. I don't really care about the nonsense most readers don't post flames. But the minority sure is loud...
REYET ON YO. I AM A THIRTEEN YEAR OLD DOOFUS, R-EYE-TTT ON HOOOOO
First I have to say that I love Gnome. I've been using it on and off since 0.20 and regularly since 0.99.1. It's beautiful. Someone finally has gotten an nice Enlightenment theme going. Themable GTK+ is cool. And 0.99.8 was looking *real* promising. Just a few minor glitches here and there.
BUT... this 1.0.0 release was a real bad idea.
It's quite obvious that it was not close to being done. You don't add features before a 1.0 release because you just *know* it's going to break stuff. I like the idea of a CDROM icon on the desktop with gmc -- but not at the expense of a crashing desktop.
I was running gdm just fine. New release to bump it up to 1.0.0 and someone forgets half the files. Nasty. No one can log in.
Enlightenment's control applet, wm-properties-capplet, dumps core when invoked. I can't set the friggin' focus back the way god intended it to be: sloppy. It's just plain broken. Redhat Labs needs a testing department.
I want to be clear. I do like Gnome a lot. And this isn't a coding issue. It's a management issue. You just don't do a 1.0 release when it's not ready. Especially not for the hype factor. We expect that from crappy commercial software, not a cool open-source project like Gnome. Open-source code is not about hype. It's about the solid, stable code.
I just hope this hasn't given Gnome too much of a black eye. I've lost a lot of respect for Redhat over this one.
nah, I'll be satisfied with 900.
ps. GNOME rules!
and counting ! Come on guys, we need just about 100 more !
ok, here is one more ;)
:)
Well, I feel guilty of wasting bandwidth now...
So I will at least make a summary of the other comments....
We can say that Gnome doesn't work (is that the idea behind the word SUCKS ?) and is far behind KDE in many aspects, and we can even add that Gnome works well (I mean ROCKS) and is far ahead KDE in many aspects.
This remind me Ionesco
Woo! Yay self-flaming!
You suck! ;)
No; actually I did all those things, but yes, I am trying to take over the world.
Try to think about who you're blaming first. Next I'm shaving you (everywhere).
Sure, if we keep writing short little comments like this.
So you think redhat gave rob a free CD or something?
Um, you don't have to install E if you don't want to. Duh.
Unfortunately, your article would be removed quite quickly.
Actually, X selection copy/paste is much faster/easier than drag and drop. Of course, it only works with text, but that's what most people use most of the time.
second reply to the first reply to the first post!
Yes, the number of comments for an article determines its importance completely.
No it isn't. It's a sign of the depths to which society has fallen. This is slashdot, for crying out loud. aitch tee tee pee colon slash slash slash dot dot com
Um, lowering your threshhold would take effort. That's an absolute no-no. Effort is BAD.
It's not the people who are censoring you - it's the perl itself! The censoring is coming from INSIDE THE PERL.
They do, um, stuff. And then they crash.
The 37337 h4x0r5 will try to 0wN it. Not that we care.
and your point is?
Stop reading this garbage! Write some code or something. END THIS IDIOTIC FLAME WAR AND GET BACK TO WORK SQUASHING MS LIKE THE INSECT IT IS
;)
...and growing...
lame's my middle name.
Hey - that rhymes!
No, you sucks! ;)
And I suppose you have life??? Asswipe!
last post!
waaah
That's right! We need 10 of the lamest AC's to post 10 lame comments each, and we will hit the 1000 comment mark! Show thyself LAMER!!
I Agree!
Fuck the capitalists!!!
Red Hat is selling free software! Fuck then!!! They are trying to dig gold from free things like Linux and Gnome that are ours!!
GNU Linux are free and will always be! Die capitalists!!! Support DEBIAN!!! Support GNU!!!
Also die KDE because of QT!!! Troll Software SUCKS!!! Fucking Capitalists!!! They want to make money on QT!!! QT Sucks!!!
Die Capitalists!!! Anarchism forever!!! Today the INTERNET - Tomorrow the WORLD!!!
(EL TED)
at :n i-hamburg.de/gnome.html
:( /. is not Comment1000 compliant ;)
http://gnome.linuxbe.org/
http://ifmpc118.ifm.uni-hamburg.de/gnome.html
http://www.tu-harburg.de/skf/Pub/ifmpc118.ifm.u
We won't reach 1000 comments
But maybe
I've managed to make Gnome lock up my machine pretty good (using 0.99.8) but then again I've been running Linux all of three weeks & have no clue what the hell I'm doing ;-)
As a newbie tho, I have to give the Gnome folks credit, it does make using Linux easier for those of us used to GUI OS's. I'd be lying if I said it was easy for me to get it running, but in the process I learned a lot about Linux.
:-)
haha...me too
At last check there were still about 70 to go before 1000. I'm not convinced it's gonna happen, since they moved it off the main listing...
We want to break 1000, not equal it.
title says all.
;-P
ps : I got it
NO! We have to give Slashdot a shakedown run to make sure it can handle in excess of a Kilocomment. The proper goal is 1025 messages, a kilocomment plus 1 (KC+1).
Yes, darn them!
I think that free software should not be sold. It is OK to ask a $1,00 for the media (CD-ROM), but not $50,00 or more like RedHat do.
If they want money they should ask for donations and not charge money for the software that THEY NOT DID, NEITHER HELPED TO MAKE IT.
Long Live Free Software!
Flame...Flame...Flame. ==...HERESY!!!
Burn...Burn..Burn
KDE...KDE...KDE
GNOME...GNOME..GNOME
KDE...AND...GNOME...IN...THE..SAME..SENETENCE..
GNOME sucks
Slashdot Crashdot
It won't
;)
I'm afraid we won't reach 1000 comments.
Unless I say here that KDE is a piece of shit...
Only Gnome rules and rocks !!!!
KDE is from Bill.
Now, the slashdotic rule #23 says a flaming war will begin (the 724th KDE-GNOME flame war)
And we will reach at least 1200 comments in two hours.
It won't
;)
I'm afraid we won't reach 1000 comments.
Unless I say here that Gnome is the less stable thing I have ever seen (my grandmother is more stable on one foot)
Only KDE rules and rocks !!!!
Gnome is slow and buggy
Now, the slashdotic rule #24 says a flaming war will begin (the 724th KDE-GNOME flame war)
And we will reach at least 1200 comments in two hours.
Sorry, that bad taste....bad taste, ha ha ha!
Microsoft code is so freely available... Yes, I'm sure that's exactly what they did. :P
Why do I feel like Altoids all of a sudden...
Well you gargle
No you dont. You can get better paid somewhere else. I would've liked to work for them, but after I found out how much some of them made...
Granted, the work environ. might be cool, but I could get paid more elsewhere.
Damnit, this is SLASHDOT
We're SUPPOSED to be the home of trolls and the hoi polli and the rest of the Internet backwater.
We're SUPPOSED to flame and bitch and yell and cause dysfunction!
This is why SLASHDOT is SOOOOO |-RAD 31337!
DITTO
ME TO!
I AM LAMERZ...FELL MY WRATH!
1000, here we COME!
Why do people get a woody over this ten year old
Amiga crap?
About 50g.
Why do you ask? This was a light morning for me...
But isn't KDE a German (or is it now the EC) plot to undermine US/Mexico soverignty? Remember that WE GOT THE BOMB..2 WORDS, NUCLEAR FUCKING WEAPONS. KDE can have all the fun they want, but we can give them all permanent orange buzzcuts and peal the paint off their Beemers.
Don't call me a dude, I am not a dude, I am a
HUMAN BEING. You ought to be nice to people, not
calling them nasty names.
The place I read said COBRA which stands for Comprehensive
Object Brokering Requests Architecture, and you
GNOME fanatics are just trying to confuse the issue.
Your "CORBA" sucks, your "ORBit" sucks big time, all the people
working on GNOME "CORBA" stuff suck even worse, mainly because they have problems designing anything without severe interdependancy problems, and their framework is not very fast either.
Nuff said. And besides, sombreros are cool. Therefore Mexico and Gnome will win all KDE junk.
But it doesnt work.
KDE 1.1 sucks, thats why I tried GNOME,
It locks the CD drive on my machine and half the config options don't work properly and kmail is horrible. It doesnt even have an graphical ftp client, at least GNOME has that.
However, I was pissed when I downloaded and tried to install GNOME. I'm using a base RH5.2 system, and the install instructions didnt work, I had to do a rpm -i -v --force to get it to go in, and even then enlightenment frequently refuses to start.
Stability HA!
GNOME sucks. if this is a major version release PAH!
Fix it people, and don't call unstable releases major versions. This sucks.
I would just like to lend my support to this.
l
This person must be the chief GNOME developer or something, and this proves that they are clueless.
And anyways, you can't even do proper OO without C++ which is the OO language of choice today.
C++ has many advanced features which it is scientifically proven to be impossible
to duplicate in any language. AT&T Labs did research on this, http://www.labs.att.com/research/oo-languages.htm
C has major problems in all areas. It is very difficult to write a bug-free C program,
and the GNOME developers are certainly not in the category of people who know how to do this.
true
Wow, this is already in first place in the hof by over 150 comments.
Check out the link to the mirrors list.
I wonder how much the hof is really telling us since Slashdot's readership keeps growing. All of you who remember when we didn't have to log in also know that there was a time when comments NEVER ran over 100, but all of them were worth reading. Oh, how things have changed.
I'm really amazed with your work! You've come a long way from the plain X to ease of use in GNOME 1.0!
Love you all!
talking about some shit you have no clue about is really pathetic dude, why don't you go read up on shit before you post and pretend to know it, then people won't tell you that you suck you pathetic loser.
I assume that you see memory leaks in free() and malloc() because you're (1) using Windows, or (2) don't know how to use them, (3) are using buggy software.
I'll also assume you are using the new oporator as an alternative to malloc() (which, BTW, only works on C++ objects). new has gotten far better from previous compilers (we used to use malloc() in C++ when most compilers had buggy a buggy new). New, however, is not nearly as powerful as malloc(), and often takes up more CPU. Depending on how your program is compiled/what compiler, in order to use new on several objects, it must calculate the memory occupied. (In malloc you can just use a constant efficiently)
With malloc, though, if you KNOW that each object will be needing X amount of its own memory, there are plenty of shortcuts to allocate all the memory you need at once. This becomes critical in large database applications, when calling malloc over and over or using new over and over tends to slow down your threads.
There's nothing wrong with malloc() and free(). Infact, new is usually a compile-level wrapper for malloc(). Free and malloc() don't cause memory leaks, bad programmers cause memory leaks.
Damn; the article left the main screen, 40 comments short of a thousand.
First reply to the last post!
Never accept only 900 comments.
No, you blow!
No, you swallow!
Eww.
Last reply to the last post!
Ooo - ooo, me too.
Well, you never know...
No, I'm not part of the gnome project. I did, however, take the time to learn it well, as I did with kde when it came out. This comment is simply someone who shouldn't be involved in free software.
When someone (I'm refering to gnome AND kde now) dedicates their time and effort to create software in the hopes of advancing free software and computer science, they ought to be commended. As proof that non of you could do anything better than Gnome, why didn't you? I'm not as talented as any of the gnome developers, I didn't program mc, gmc, enlightenment, or gtk+ (although, I have developed GUI toolkits for DOS - that was a long time ago)
Writing bug-free code is usually a matter of programming in the high well, combined with programming in the low well. KDE is programmed fairly well in both respects, limited mostly be things the developers can't control (Qt, etc).
Before you -ever- critize the developers of gnome so subjectively without cause, you should have done everything they've done better, otherwise you are hipocritical.
I didn't critize the KDE programmers either, their code is quiet good. Both the KDE and Gnome developers are valuable to the free software community, and you sir, are exactly what we need less of.
Go back to using Windows, will you? Leave Unix and Linux in the harmony it enjoyed before Windows users began coming.
Damn.
Um, let's not.
Hey - just because I'm smoking crack doesn't mean they're not out to get me.
Don't I wish.
What does 'free list corrupt' mean, anyway?
Woohoo - it has!
Shows what you know. Geekiness isn't determined by what you wear. Some of us don't even wear pants.
1 4m 4 '7337 74m3R
18 more comments - come on, we can do it...
Muahahaha.
First reply to the first reply to the last post!
Sure I do.
MORE COMMENTS!
Woo.
Lets.
Um, yeah.
Ok, Gnome is nice, but so is KDE. Is it about politics or usability? Gnome doesn't have much for desktop (Win9X, MAC, or KDE style) usage, but KDE does. So are users going to go to something that has the "start" button but no desktop, or use something that has both? I use KDE because it works. I like GTK interface and the way gnome works (when it works). But big boss want's something that you can just startup and use...KDE seems to fill that role. Sure KDE is big...just like CDE, and it can be slow, and takes forever to load, never to be used on less than a P90. Gnome seems a wee bit faster, wee bit that is, and has some nicer features that KDE. So what now...ever hear of the harmony project? Well why don't we try to work on harmony, or try to port forms of KDE to GTK. The fact remains that KDE is there, it works. Gnome is still vapor ware (based on fact that is crashes to much..But if you consider that than MS is also vaporware) and messy. You know this little gay battle is sending linux nowhere fast, and MS has its dirt if it keeps up. What is the real goal here? Make open source? Even the battlefield? Make linux good, if so why is QT and GPL a gripe....if you make commercial software than pay the small fee...besides don't you pay a lot for MS Visual Studio? I Did! Help out harmony, build fast desktop, build usable desktop, make core widget set fully theme-able i.e. looks like KDE now...looks like Gnome later?
Well there you have it, my thoughts. I'm setting up a linuxbased web site and I'm wondering...what should I put on it?
Can Slashdot handle more than one kilocomment?
I wanna know!
Feel the power, we've got to mount the lst push while it's still visible on the main page, if not the main list.
4 more
Warez!
Gun Control!
Hitler!
Mac vs. PC!
B1FF R00LZ, D00D!
saw it was 999, make it 1000.
Go GNOME !!!
version 1.0, 1000 posts.
Wow, 'tis some major flamage flying 'round this forum, and just so there'll be more flamewars: KDE sucks, GNOME sucks. =-P
Sure ?
How dull ...
The point is not to hit 1 KC, but to break it.
So we're gonna need 1025 comments, or 1KC+1.
Nearly there -- GNOME sucks, FLAME ON!!!
Nearly there -- GNOME sucks, FLAME ON!!!
Nearly there -- GNOME sucks, FLAME ON!!!
Monica only suck for the president.
GNOME sucks for EVERYBODY (that said -- it will
be a while before the sucking your dick feature
will be added to the suckiness)
Hitler uses KDE to promote vegetarian gun control for B1FF!
Yeah -- and it sure feels goooooooood when KDE
swallows for me brother! Oh yeah! Suck it baby!!
So I'll have to get rid of it, along the way to 1025, that is.
I am the last MEEPT imitator in this thread. woohoo!
...despite the new KDE flamebait up top.
Are you sure of that? That is some mighty tasting looking license flamebait up there.
oohh, sacrilicious
No real comment, just seeing what happens
when the subject wont fit on the page anymore..
teehee
I guess no one else knew the rule about ending the thread when Hitler is referenced. (1040+ and counting)
-- Keith
...that I was there the day /. broke a KC for the first time.
Sigh.
Woohoo! KC+1 achieved!
Keep the foot.
It's cool and also looks like a gnome's footprint.
I like that.
CONCLUSION OF DEBATE
--------------------
When KDE was released I tried and I liked it. It provides a wide range of useful stable
applications. But all of this comes with the cost of large resources usage. I compiled the
source a few times and no problems - quite good. Then after a few months evaluation in
different distributions, I concluded that it is Yet another Windows Manager/Desktop
Environment. It will be appealing for newbies migrating from Win9x to Linux or other
UNIX's.
Before I move to GNOME, let me say what I think about Gimp and GTK. I tried GIMP as
soon as it came out. At the time there not many graphical applications for Linux. I thought,
It's an OK program. Though It does not support basic features available in other painting
programs such as "Line". I liked the script-Fu thing, but many scripts did not work.
Personally I did not like the Toolkit kit used. Gimp users and some Linux users described
Gimp in a manner that was more hype than reality. This as grown with Linux growth. Some
of the features claims are more wish lists. Then GTK issue comes along. I tried GTK and did
not like, mainly because it's C based and look-and-feel. I preferred Qt even with the license
`problems'.
During the above period, I watched an waited for a more stable version of GNOME. It tried
it once for one day. My conclusion at the time: I don't like it. I tried to compile, the
requirements were so big that I screamed. In my point of view it adds `nothing'. The constant
and growing religious behavior of some GNOME fans it's worrying.
Conclusion
-------
KDE mainly for New Linux Users(NLU) and SOHO. GNOME mainly for Artists,
proud-Americans, religious fanatics, et al. Other Windows Managers / Desktop
environments for other diverse niches of Linux users with specific needs in terms of
resources consumption, speed, portability, security and other factors.
Hype is a big problem the `Linux community' will have to face with . The overly exaggerated
claims towards Wine, GNOME, GIMP and such contribute to discredit the "real" strengths
of Linux and Unix Philosophy: KISS (Keep It Small and Simple).
---o---
A.M.
---o---
But B1FF sez "KD3 R00lZ ^^Y V1C ZO!!!"
Yay!
But you are the one true MEEPT!!! Show us the way, oh wise one.
I did get it, didn't I?
--
/. flamewars sucks
As it says....
I like bread.
Wow, this page is huge.
KDE IS FOR FAGS
think again!
ahahaha.
carrot full of groin! jump, rump, cribbage. burger mania!
GNOME crashed too much.
It's a great idea and has the potential to be miles better than KDE but for God's sake wait until it's stable before releasing version 1.0
RedHat are too impatient.
Anyone think we could take this article to 2000 comments with the "Last post" comments?
You just can't have it :P
Neither can you. Muhahaha :P
Pbth
loosing again ;-P
every new poll makes it into the hof. every couple of days a new article makes it into the hof.
slashdot's readership must be exploding. damn, this is scary.
first post!
Hmm, if we all post 1 or 2 comments a day we could hit 2000 comments no problem...
Only 4000 some more hits to this page and it'll break the most visited record too.
Last post! (for now)
after 2-3 months, commenting on old stories gets disabled. so it really is possible to have the last post!
ps. last post!
it r0x0rs j00r ass3s
I think I'll try to run this off the side of my screen
ps. last!
sure is
ps: last!
yo, yo, groin itch.
This is a comment, that is all.
I like listening to Messiah's "21st Century Jesus"
I'm doing it right now
I'm so pumped up I can't think
which is why I'm visiting slashdot
what is so great about COBRA, can anyone tell me?
ps. last!
Goddamn, what are all you (f)lamers going to do now that RedHat ships both UI's?
ps. I am last!
good point.
excellent point there.
hmm, i have to agree.
yeah.
this seems really wise.
yep.
woo! right.
awwww yeah!
philistine.
i bet you never heard of psykosonik either.
this is the lastest post evah! foah shoah.
... well, close ...
maybe if you werent such a fucking moron you could figure out how to compile it.
go back to windows, its obviously where you belong
This was before I discovered they power of the penguin. It delayed my "upgrade" to Win95 for several months because the Win95 UI sucked compared to Dashboard. Dashboard (now owned by Starfish) for Win95 sucked becuase, unlike previous versions, it made things slower.
Now, I use KDE, and I like kpanel. When I get back home, I will be trying Gnome 1.0 on one of my PCs. In the past it has not impressed me, but it has been a long time since I checked it out.
Though it is currently difficult for a computer illiterate to use a computer (regaurdless of OS) that doesn't mean that ease of use shouldn't be a goal. Right now most of the world runs a MS OS on their desktop. Do you think we should accept that? Or, should we try and build the best darn OS we can so people can have a truly great system? Damn straight we should!
World Domination!
Penguin Power!
jnik wrote:
Federico works at RHAD, not Miguel (IIRC).
Miguel works as a Network Administrator at UNAM, a huge University in Mexico City.
Federico was hired by RHAD, but only after he had done huge amounts work on GNOME on his own time already.
----
Open mind, insert foot.
Don't depend on debs or rpms! Arrrrrrggh!
----------------- ------------ ---- --- - - - -
----------------- ------------ ---- --- - - - -
Your honor is perfectly understandishable.
I know of 192 Sun SparcStation 10's that can be started in OpenLook mode. They even have OpenLook apps. Too bad OpenLook is the most horrible user interface ever designed, bar none.
Does GNOME require you to build a window manager that is compliant with it, the way KDE does? To use all the nifty features, that is. I'm sure some programs will work OK and all with any wm...
One person up above said this has been out since Monday. If that's the case, these are some sad mirrors. :) I've gone to probably 10 of them, and not a one has the files.
Guess I'll just stick to KDE for a couple weeks for things to die down...
I had set up a 486/25 with 16mb ram for a relative with KDE. Worked fine for the 6 months or so before they bought a new computer. Aside from the kids always wanting to just shut it off and not properly shut down...
And then there's the classes of people that feel all people should use only one certain set of libs, be it KDE or GNOME.
All the bickering will get us nowhere.
Actually, to anyone who's seen it, KDE looks waaaay more CDE-derived than it does Windows-derived. Windows just copied CDE... ;)
WWJD? JWRTFM!!!
/me raises his hand carefully
;-)
Where did the files go?!? They seem to be missing.. Even on ftp.gnome.org!! Oh well, I'm sure they'll appear soon
And I got the last one, right???
I'm NOT sorry to say that the KDE era is not even close to over. As long as there are people who support it (and there DEFINITELY are) KDE will continue to be the best. A 1.0 release of guh-noom doesn't automatically make it great.
I'll admit I haven't tried Gnome on a daily basis yet, but my KDE is very useable on my P133/48Megs RAM. I'm running multiple terminal, Netscape, wordprocessor, 3d software and always with some elaborate backgrounds. Never noticed a slowdown in any of these preceding combination; the system always responds quickly. Even my younger sisters (10-14) find it very nice...
I guess I just haven't tasted the speed of a P2 yet...
Maybe I'll give it a try..
Just a point: none of the statements in this thread (so far) cross the line into libel by US definitions.
As for calling people stupid, I'd think that such an intelligent fellow as yourself could either rise above such name-calling or at least think of something original or entertaining.
In other words, don't be a troll, smeghead.
----
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
facts. He is employed by a research institution in Mexico City and does work on GNOME on his time.
Bugs are inevitable. Checking `critical' bugs, I see none. If everyone waited until every single bug is gone, we'd never ever get any software. Debian has bugs. Even with known fixes. And it will still ship 2.1 with those bugs intact, because sometimes you just can't risk fixing one bug and breaking ten other things. Somewhere, a line has to be drawn.
that's because E is not written by the people who made GNOME, but by Raster and Mandrake. It just happens to be the most gnome-compliant window manager. If you don't like it, use Window Maker - that also obeys gnome hints.
To be fair, it's my general thought that once you think a project is completely finished, you should release it (as -final, a la Linus) about a week before you dub it x.0. There are *always* bugs that will only show up when you're ready to move to a new major release - they wait for it, maliciously. Evil bugs. ;)
In any case, if you're going to bash a product for not being ready at a .0 major release, don't limit yourself to GNOME. Otherwise you're showing yourself to be the hypocrate (sp?) that you are.
Because, most people don't want to have to learn anything... they just want to get their work done. With that said, I would like to add that most folk I know have to go through nine shades of holy h*ll to keep their Windows running. Think how easy it would be to have Linux preinstalled with no need for configuration. Maybe remote configuration by your service provider. Maybe autoconfiguration for a particular task etc..
:)
Linux has so many possibilities and GNOME is one of them.
Codifex Maximus ~ In search of... a shorter sig.
There are too many variables to make a clear cut answer. WINE code is completely independant of GNOME as all it requires for display is X. GNOME provides the same kind of DnD, Cut-N-Paste, Networked Object Model(with advanced messaging) for application interoperability as COM/DCOM with some obvious overhead required. So, the less you have running on your system, the faster WINE will run.
Hopefully, GNOME will make WINE obsolete then all the guys who do such a good job on WINE will be free to work on other projects - GNOME could benefit from such talent as it is the same kind of interface programming.
I haven't tried to upgrade my GNOME lately but I'm definately interested - especially if tremendous speed improvements have been made and configuration details have been ironed out. If WINE runs faster under the newest version of GNOME than previous versions, then count me in!
Codifex Maximus ~ In search of... a shorter sig.
Posted by Saurus:
nah, they said 1.0 on wednesday.
Posted by Saurus:
thanks Fizgig. i've copied his *rpms onto my website also. they're available at http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~staylor/gnome
i recommend using wget for retrieval (e.g. wget -r -l2 http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~staylor/gnome)
Posted by Moritz Moeller - Herrmann:
on technical merits and stability.
GNOME has been a political project from the beginning. Unlike KDE that had the goal to provide an userfriendly desktop to all unixes.
Maybe we will be able to compare Gnome and KDE on their technical merits.
But as this post indicates there will always be people who like to convince others with their beliefs and morals.
I am not surprised the gnomes chose linuxworld for their release. After all we can all learn from Microsoft that marketing is much more important than good programming.
Still congratulations. Nice to have a second desktop ecnvironment.
I hope Gnome will one day have features KDE doesn't have. That way KDE can copy from Gnome as well....
Posted by OGL:
Exact same way
-W.W.
Posted by OGL:
It really is NOT that huge at 1280x1024!
-W.W.
Posted by OGL:
Sorry, I was hoping for an improvement as well, but unfortunetly it crashes anytime I close a file's property window. Oh well. I tried to set gnome-edit to nedit, but for some retarded reason it opens an xterm before opening nedit...pathetic. The menu editor is REALLY bad this time as well...it crashes all the time, when you do anything. Overall I'd say this was somewhat dissapointing. Some parts of it seem pretty finished, but others are just awful, not even worthy of a 0.2 release.
-W.W.
Posted by FrodoLives:
what?
I used to run KDE 1.0 on a P90 at work with excellent stability. I can only say that KDE got confused once in about 9 months of use. Who knows it may have recovered, but I just killed it.
Also ran KDE on every desk top in the office, about 12 or so. Ran fine, all of them P75 to P133 w/ 32M of RAM.
Incorrect. Gnome does not aim at the uber-geeks; it's aimed at computer users everywhere. And if it makes *my* life easier, it will probably make the lives of people everywhere easier.
Computers will never be as easy to use as toasters. And they don't have to be. Clerks, grandmas, and kids know a hell of a lot about computers, and as computers grow more ubiquitous, the level of expertise will also rise. Computers will become easier to use than they are now, but they will always require some skill.
Reading is not an easy task-- yet most people are able to read. I maintain that learning how to use a computer is easier than learning to read. And I can prove it. My daughter could use the computer long before she could read. (Computer: 2.5 years. Books: 5 years.)
Since Gnome allows you to make the best use of your computer (of all the desktops I've used, anyway), I don't see why it can't succeed.
Plus, this isn't an all-or-nothing proposition. And since Corel doesn't even *have* a desktop, I don't see why you bring them up. (They may have one in the future. I wouldn't bet on it. Chances are they will just use KDE.) KDE and Gnome can co-exist with a command-line-only interface, and even with MS-Win2k/99/2001. I don't see why that can't continue.
- Tony
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
Where can I find a listing of those Salaries?
R2
Thank you. Drive through. (:wq)
It consists of a panel at the bottom of the screen with several icons/little menus and some buttons for different desktops, and you can put stuff like a load meter or a biff there. It's ugly, but there you have it. MS prolly ripped it off if anything for their taskbar thing w/menus, buttons (for applications) and little icons. CDE is reasonably wm-independent AFAIK (i've only used it w/mwm, suck).
:)
CDE can be real beautiful if it's setup right. I've never done it myself, as I don't have the cash for Motif, CDE, or a nice HP machine to play with, but I have seen professor's setups with it and it can do some really neat stuff if it's configured properly.
I'm itching to try GNOME now, I never got the CVS or the release sources to build on my slackware machine, the only real distro . Hopefully these compile issues have been fixed, really. I've been itching to try it but tearing apart makefiles and source for something that I might not even like is not something I'm interested in.
Kudos to GNOME, the developers, and all their hard work. Hopefully this will be another smack in the face to the home of my future terrorist actions, Redmond, WA.
-Erik-
And I ask "what can I use this gnome thing for? I really wanna have something, cuz my son's scout troop's getting this whole event going on, lotsa rope tying and tent-pitching and stuff and we need some flyers to print out with some pictures. i just got this scanner thingamabob and this color inkjet printer, boy did that set me back. haven't got 'em out of the box yet, so can i just plug 'em in and drag some pictures around and make some flyers? oh yeah if i could mail 'em to some buddies on AOL that would be big, or maybe i should put 'em on that webspace that our internet hookup gives us. is there a program that'll lemme do that?"
Well, a lot of this depends on the hardware you're using. I don't believe that Linux has heavy support for TWAIN (the protocol used for scanners, digital cameras, etc), nor many of these devices at the driver level are supported. Best bet would be to write the creator of your hardware and demand a set of Linux drivers, then work on getting the TWAIN support you need, with a program, not unlike a situation in windows.
The printer, that all depends on what printer you have. If you have an HP, chances are it'll work. If you have a "windows printer" or a printer that uses the "Windows Printing System", you might as well take it back and buy a real printer, because it's probably not going to work even if (ahem... canon) they wanted to write a Linux driver for it.
The fact is, every single arguement here has to do with vendor support and not the programs. There are multiple programs out there that provide the various support needed for thsi stuff, and just like any piece of specialty free software, you hunt for it or you write it yourself.
AOL could write a client for Linux, no one is stopping them.
And yes, I imagine Joe Sixpack has a telephone and a voice, that he can use to call his hardware vendors.
Please don't fill me with your FUD, and spend less time concentrating on the negative and get out there and spread what GNOME can *DO*, instead of what it can't.
Note: I think that those people out there expending their energy to cut down Linux to it's knees, should start spending their time enhancing the effort instead of waiting for something to happen. Advocation, Documentation, Meetings, these are all things that can easily be accomplished by "Joe Sixpack". Either that, or they should go back to NT and forget Linux alltogether, as all of us would benefit greatly without you. You're no better than the OS/2, MacOS, or a lot of the FreeBSD people, the true "Anything but Micro$oft" anal-retentives.
-Erik "I need some über chronic buds" Hollensbe-
Gee, and I thought TWAIN was a software interface, á la SANE... gotta check my "Scanners for Dummies" book!
TWAIN (afaik) is an interface from the program to the driver. The driver is still needed for the hardware interface, at least in the windows world.
-Erik-
Over its history (and possibly still), GNOME stuff has lived in various places depending on when (0.2x vs now) and how (rpm vs tar.gz) it was installed. Does anybody have a script that will search and destroy all obsolete GNOME cruft everywhere?
Craig
still using KDE... and xfce, and wmx, and WM...
If I'm right about this, it would seem to me that adding language bindings to a C++ library would be substantially trickier than to a C library.
Myself, I prefer to work in C++, but de gustibus non est disputandum (except of course that COBOL sucks and RPG is a joke...).
Craig
... you have to configure imlib --with-GMODULE
or the piece of code libgnomeui needs doesn't get
built.
Also the intl/ directories in several of the
source tarballs are missing a header file; just
find it in one of the other tarballs and dump
it in...
Craig
That was a notoriously buggy redhat release. You should take this experience to be a bad impression of RH5.1, not gnome 1.0.
The "cue the foo posts in 3, 2, 1..." posts will commence with no subsequent foo posts in 3, 2, 1...
probably about the same time you get your capslock fixed.
The "cue the foo posts in 3, 2, 1..." posts will commence with no subsequent foo posts in 3, 2, 1...
TedC
TedC
It's yet another Gnome/KDE article inciting a flame war! How original.
I don't want to read through 700+ comments, can someone just give me the gist?
^ ~
(btw, wheres Ivan, redwolf and bored in an intense discussion like this. At the time of this writing it is an 89% AC crowd. AC's are lame.)
^~~^~^^~~^~^~^~^^~^^~^~^~~^^^~^^~~^~~~^~~
Thanks you two, I guess that simply sums it up.
Ahh I still remember the great KDE flame by Bruce Perens. It overloaded Robs little server in a most grotesque fashion.
As far as KDE vs Gnome, I use neither. Although Windowmaker is compliant with both, its perfectly good on its own.
^~~^~^^~~^~^~^~^^~^^~^~^~~^^^~^^~~^~~~^~~^~
Do it again tomorrow?^ ~~^~
^~~^~^^~~^~^~^~^^~^^~^~^~~^^^~^^~~^~~~
first reply to first post!
you make kde look good
woohoo!!!
to get the last comment. I hope the debs come out soon.
Windows, icons, menus, pointer
That cartoon ruled.
Btw, last post.
so I can get last comment
the fsf would sell you a proprietary licence for $1500. Would be interesting though. of course, thats just for the gnu libs
last post
debs and the last post
I LIKE TEA
last
I want it bad
I'll second that.
...Steve
Yeehah! GNOME 1.0 has now generated more comment traffic than that Iraq story a few months ago. Forget Clinton v. Sadaam, GNOME v. KDE is a real war.
And that across a VNC connection. Worked fine to me.
--
Ben Kosse
Remember Ed Curry!
Um, click "Panel: This Panel Properties" -- Autohide is the first option there. Works quite nicely.
Adam
I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.
I've been having the same probs, and now I got in on first try. not oly that, but its runnin at a good 60-80k off the t1 here at school...God Bless dorm inet connections :)
-----
If Bill Gates had a nickel for every time Windows crashed...
Actually, many of the components of GNOME fall under the GPL, rather than the LGPL. Run the following command against the GNOME 1.0 RPMs, for example:
rpm -qip * |grep GPL |grep -v LGPL
...
Size : 479065 License: GPL
Size : 3931709 License: GPL
Size : 424189 License: GPL
Size : 188812 License: GPL
...
I believe that GNOME is trying to follow the FSF philosophy of LGPLing things for which there are many or a common non-free alternative(s), and using the GPL where this isn't the case.
Regards,
Drel
sod.res.cmu.edu is up to date, as are several mirrors I tried (sod seemed the fastest, so that's the one I pulled most of the packages from).
That said, there has been a history of what could be called premature announcements on Slashdot, which have overwhelmed the main server for something before the mirrors for the software had a chance to grab it.
I'm running GNOME 0.99.8 at the moment (will be upgrading to 1.0 later today), and have no problems. GNOME 0.99.8 included a package called GTK+10, which is a set of compatibility libraries to run apps linked against GTK / glib 1.0.x.
I don't see gtk+10 in GNOME 1.0, which tells me something may have changed between GTK+ 1.1.x and GTK+ 1.2 in regards to backwards compatibility, so you may want to do some digging on www.gtk.org.
AFAIK, GTK+ 1.2 can co-exist with GTK+ 1.0; however, you must make sure that you remove any existing development packages from 1.0 before installing 1.2 development packages.
If anyone has a definitive answer on this issue, I'd love to hear it as well!
man 5 ftpaccess
(you're looking for the limit directive).
Drel
Check the blackbox web site: http://blackbox.wiw.org/
The latest version (0.50.3) is GNOME aware.
I had just the OPPOSITE.. My wife uses KDE regularly, without any problems at all.. I prefer Gnome myself, but I fear that KDE has beat the pants out of Gnome as far as a 1.0 release..
-- I'm the root of all that's evil, but you can call me cookie..
Derived from what? A small tasklist at the bottom of the screen, with a button to bring up a menu? How is panel even CLOSE to that?
;-P
Ok, maybee they stole the idea of pushing a button, but I'm SURE that buttons are considered common use enough..
Have you ever tried to add a configurable launcher to the taskbar? How about a small application to display data? Resize your taskbar? Have SEVERAL of them on different edges and corners of your screen? Common..
-- I'm the root of all that's evil, but you can call me cookie..
Three.. But then again, if you have HUNDREDS of systems having problems, then they only have ONE common denominator.. You've got something going on funny.. Are you sure it's not X? What problems do you have..
-- I'm the root of all that's evil, but you can call me cookie..
You have an obsolete libdb, which has an incorrect implementation of snprintf, which masks the correct one in libc. Upgrade it; most distributions should have a fixed one out (even slackware), since it's also causing a security hole in sendmail, or something like that.
"Ten years from now, they could do it in a few seconds." -- The Racketeer of the Hellfire Club, 1993, Phrack 42
Please, grow up. Your arrogance and ignorance are annoying. You're the troll. Leave.
I don't know about anyone else, but I think it's too early. I know you can't wait forever, but there's one thing expected of point-oh releases - stability. Sure gnome is reasonably stable given its development time, but I can't imagine its improved _that_ much since 0.99.3 that I'm using.
Let the flames begin...
Matt. Want XML + Apache + Stylesheets? Get AxKit.
..and the problem is? I don't understand all this whining about support libraries. Code reuse is Good(tm).
/mill
I rather see it like - "wow, I get all this stuff without having to pay for it and it includes the source code".
Btw, with Debian apt will let you download it in a few steps.
Keep it a secret, but GNOME 1.0 _is_ versioned 1.0.1, at least for many of the packages.
Umm, you can hide the pager.
That's been in there as long as I can remember (before 0.13?)
yeah
Wow, that was a very witty and clever response.
Anyway, did you read that the person said they were HAPPY with WM and an xterm? Why must you force KDE (or GNOME if you had said that) upon them? If that is what you use and prefer, that is great for you; use it.
But don't try and tell someone, who at least gave GNOME a (small?) chance, that they should use KDE just because it is there. I am sure they have looked into it.
What in particular didn't compile? I know for a fact there is working code, since I am running it (and have been for months). Did you read some (of the little) documentation that is included with gnome? Maybe try checking the mailing list archives for people with a similar problem.
No, I am not a moron.
I have been running GNOME for almost a year. The commenter said that NO code worked, and this isn't the case since many many people (including me) are using it every day.
Sorry to dissappoint.
Do you really think people with such an agenda (originally to kill KDE) really care about usability from the perspective of a non-nerd who may want to use Linux to do the things most computer users want a desktop environment for?
Yes, they do. Usability is discussed all of the time on mailing lists and irc.
...as does GNOME.
The press release says so at least. Except for SCO; it might, might not.
qvwm is..saw it on Freshmeat recently..
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
I've been compiling Gnome from CVS for a couple of months. It takes my computer the better part of a day. He may want to use the program.. :-)
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
I've got CVS Gnome on my computer. It's incredibly stable...given where it was a month or so ago. But whose decision was it to go to 1.0.0? Was this just because we ran out of numbers? Hearing about it first on slashdot was also somewhat..amusing..it hasn't been announced on Gnome-List...
:-) )
I suspect the only thing at 1.0.0 is gnome-libs. Everything else is too flaky still. (in gmc: right-click on a file icon. Select "Properties". Click on "Cancel".) I'm already having enough trouble dealing with people who complain about Gnome's alphaness...
(otoh..most components are almost as stable as the Microsoft equivalents and don't show any sign of ceasing to improve. So it's no less newbie-friendly than Windows and can't do anything but get better..
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
Debian makes it hard to see the latest bug fixes? Have you seen the BTS or looked at the security section of the web pages or the proposed-updates packages?
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
Actually, E isn't that bloated if you use a reasonable theme..I'm running the E-Mac theme right now and it takes up an incredibly small amount of memory. Like a meg or two.
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
I am very grateful; I think Gnome will be a really great suite of programs when it's finished. Let me repeat that last line, when it's finished. I personally use it all the time. BUT. I currently have half a dozen to a dozen bug reports on the BTS ranging from minor glitches to several reproducible segfaults from common actions. And I don't post every time I encounter a bug. I've been following CVS since last October, and I'm afraid--that they'll just make themselves look silly by releasing Gnome in the state it's in now as "1.0.0". Anyway, looking forward to the 'real' 1.0.0 release next month...
(and yes, 1.0.0 often has bugs. But not nearly so blatant as these.)
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
I think. Being a Debian user, I said "oh, neat!" when they started using debbugs and I've been submitting bugs to it on a fairly regular basis ever since... (I said 6-12 earlier but I think it's more) I'm not even counting bug reports on gnome-list. Many. :-)
I think I've had 3-4 responses and maybe one of the bugs was fixed. In another case I was told that it was a feature (I still say mixers should read the settings from the sound card when they start up), I was told that a bug against the panel was fixed in CVS (it wasn't--I run CVS--and some other people submitted reports to gnome-list in the last 24 hours. No-one has responded yet). Several of these reports involved crashes from very simple actions: for example, right-click on an icon in gmc, select "Preferences", and click "Cancel". *boom*. segfault. I'd fix it myself but I don't have time to learn how gmc works internally on top of everything else... I also submitted a couple of (very) minor bugfixes. So am I qualified to complain that they're making us all look silly? I'm taking the position that it's just a version number...what they release next month will be the 'real' 1.0.0.
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
I wish they'd made it clear that only gnome-libs is really stable though. :-( A full 1.0 release is just...silly. *sigh*. Hopefully not too much damage is done.
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
I'd like to see users using Gnome. Which is why I wish they had kept the lid on it for..say..a month..or two..or three... :-)
I originally thought this was just a nuisance..but I'm starting to wonder if it could be a catastrophe. What was Miguel thinking??? Can someone explain why he felt he had to rush the 1.0 release? And if you say "RedHat"...you lose. RedHat!=Gnome. (If that is true..why did Debianizing files go into CVS?)
Oh well. Damage control time I guess.
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
By my count, you need the following 'Gnome' packages to have Gnome:
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
Right now I'm in the process of switching from wmaker to E, having finally found a theme that's pretty and doesn't eat memory like crazy. Enlightenment takes around one or two megs of memory, and my X server takes up no more than usual, when I'm running it. (it's E-Mac, posted to e.themes.org recently) It doesn't have as many key/mousebindings as I'd like but I've sent the author some suggestions and it sounds like he'll incorporate them. It looks like the next release will be Very Good Indeed. :-)
Where was I? Oh yeah. E doesn't look like Win9x.
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
Not that that's helped them.. :-( (the best BTS doesn't help if the developers and users ignore it..I submitted a pygtk program to gnome-list that gives a nice GUI to the process of bug-submission but it was ignored.. Only about a third of the developers seem to actually read the bugs, I've taken to cc'ing the list to make sure someone listens.. )
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
Eh? I'm running Gnome and E with a pixmap theme on a P166 with 48 megabytes of RAM. Only have problems when I'm running Netscape or several instances of gcc. Neither of those are part of Gnome, so it's not Gnome's fault they take up 50% of my memory. :-)
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
Yes, your mother will just..um..use apt. Don't give your mother Debian until 2.2. :-)
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
There are not that many bug reports on the Gnome bugs page. Go to bugs.gnome.org and look around. I generally expect to at least hear "you're an idiot, I'm closing this bug".
What do you mean about providing a machine to run my PyGtk program on? It's very simple..just pops up a box asking for the package name, severity level, and bug information. Should I be letting people run it as an X client off my machine? I don't get your comment at all.
(btw: I was complaining about the lack of reading as a comparison to Debian's BTS, where I usually get at least an answer within a few days. They get _many_ more bugs.
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
Grr.
I'm sure it's not a Debian bug, though.
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
gnumeric is almost here (stabler than the panel I think). gwp is about six months from being done. Don't know about the other things, Excel and Word were all I ever used anyway..
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
Ech. I've been using Gnome from CVS for a long time and if I had been in charge, I would have waited for a couple weeks at least to release. There are way too many bugs still floating around there..odd things happen unexpectedly..it'll be cleared up soon but many people will take their first impression of Gnome from the 1.0 release. They should have gone to 1.0pre1 or 0.9.10.
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
Unfortunately it isn't. I think the worst bugs will be gone in a week or two. But there's too much flakiness. Stuff just doesn't work. It's almost there but just far enough away to be not quite ready.
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
Federico works at RHAD, not Miguel (IIRC).
Actually, the .xsession would look something like this:
#!/bin/sh
xterm &
kbgndwm &
krootwm &
exec kwm
I'll let you figure out what the extra wm's do (hint: kpanel doesn't do the root menus).
In Soviet Russia, Jesus asks: "What Would You Do?"
What "taskbar"? You mean, the Launchpad introduced in v3.0? That was more like FvwmButtons or Goodstuff, not a taskbar like WarpCentre (or whatever it is called) in v4.0, which obviously came After Win95.
:o)
What we need from OS/2 is the Workplace Shell, though.
In Soviet Russia, Jesus asks: "What Would You Do?"
In April did they say? Well, then, I assume 6.0 is gonna be a joke bug-wise, and people should wait 'til 6.1 or 6.2 for the serious stuff... :op
In Soviet Russia, Jesus asks: "What Would You Do?"
I don't believe that Linux has heavy support for TWAIN (the protocol used for scanners, digital cameras, etc),
Gee, and I thought TWAIN was a software interface, á la SANE... gotta check my "Scanners for Dummies" book!
In Soviet Russia, Jesus asks: "What Would You Do?"
Jesus. What the hell are we going to do when slashdot gets its first 1000-comment article?
I guess that depends on which nifty features you're talking about. Integration between apps and the window manager (as demonstrated by the GNOME pager/tasklist, for example) requires WMs to support certain hints. But the vast majority of the functionality provided by GNOME and GNOME apps does not require window manager support (I would expect this to be true of KDE as well, though).
FWIW, the hints I mentioned are supported already by Enlightenment, IceWM and Window Maker.
Just don't use either. fvwm2 (not fvwm95) will probably give you a much better wm experience. The newer KDE versions are pretty stable, I find, but I can't bring myself to use the, since they are so butt-ugly (as in, they look way too much like win95).
"Be nice, veer left, and never stop thinking" Iain Banks - Walking On Glass
Do you really know what you're talking about? Corel said they wanted a desktop and would use KDE as long as it was the only option. It's not anymore, and they haven't made a release yet, so I bet they will take the options, study them side by side (on a lot of factors, not only UI) and pick the best. And I seriously doubt it will be KDE.
If you were using the right distribution, you were just typing "apt-get install gnome-panel gnome-session ..." and all the dependeicies were solved for you automatically.
GNU wants its name to be associated with stable software, but any stable software is undtable at some earlier point, don't you think? Why an unstable GNOME was released as 1.0 is another quiestion, but associating the GNU name has nothing to do with it.
The quote I read was, paraphrased, "We have no idea what the hell we're doing, so we haven't made up our minds yet."
And as far as GUIs: Don't even go there. I cannot see one single reason why 2 or more interfaces can't survive side-by-side. Giving an example of a lame interface dieing off through evolution doesn't make your point.
RH probably won't do an IPO, simply because that opens them up to acquisition bids and closure, if say a company doesn't like linux and decides to purchase a controlling share, grab the assets and say get rid of a newly created department and its employees, say the linux development department and os design. Just a thought. They could be granted a stake in the private company, though. That would be nice.
Brian Seppanen
Minister of Information and Propaganda
Area 54 The Secret Government Disco Labs Provo
http://www.gnome.org/mailing-lists/archives/gnome- list/1999-March/
/lib/cpp? Jason N Pratt (Wed Mar 3 13:00:02 1999) /lib/cpp? John Huttley
The March Entries include a massive pile of severe bug reports. Most are about outright Crashes in core components. It seams to me that only 2 possibilities exist here.
This is a sampling of just the last 3 days of gnome-list@. The main list, not even the Bug Tracking list. In other words this is where newbis who can't get it to work go to cry for help. Note I cut it off before the Was 1.0 released too early thread.
Sounds to me like someone wanted to delay Gnome 1.0 and was spaming the list under multiple names. 'Astroturf', I call it.
Re: orbitgtk.c kills compile for gnome-libs Shane W Rogers (Wed Mar 3
20:45:45 1999)
Re: orbitgtk.c kills compile for gnome-libs Elliot Lee
Re: orbitgtk.c kills compile for gnome-libs Shane W Rogers
E-Mac.etheme questions mlemsing@swavley.com.au (Wed Mar 3 20:16:05 1999)
German User Guide Knut Neumann (Wed Mar 3 18:29:01 1999)
Re: German User Guide Karl Eichwalder
How can I turn off session management? Mike Dickson (Wed Mar 3 17:57:47
1999)
font sizes in balsa Michael Perry (Wed Mar 3 17:00:46 1999)
GNOME on SuSE 6.0, a nightmare. Martin Hawlisch
Re: GNOME on SuSE 6.0, a nightmare. Karl Eichwalder
Re: GNOME on SuSE 6.0, a nightmare. James Henstridge
Re: GNOME on SuSE 6.0, a nightmare. Jan Gentsch
Re: GNOME on SuSE 6.0, a nightmare. Karl Eichwalder
Minor visual quirk in the panel Daniel Burrows (Wed Mar 3 16:19:58 1999)
Help compiling balsa-0.4.9 Igor S. Livshits (Wed Mar 3 16:02:55 1999)
Re: Help compiling balsa-0.4.9 Spud
Re: Help compiling balsa-0.4.9 Igor S. Livshits
Resizing bug in panel? Daniel Burrows (Wed Mar 3 15:53:43 1999)
Re: Resizing bug in panel? James M. Cape
Gnome-guile Dies James M. Cape (Wed Mar 3 15:51:47 1999)
Re: Gnome-guile Dies James Henstridge
Re: Gnome-guile Dies James M. Cape
Linux Magazin cover story Matthias Warkus (Wed Mar 3 15:51:01 1999)
RE: Linux Magazin cover story Nathan Clegg
E/Gnome window placement quirks Daniel Burrows (Wed Mar 3 15:47:21 1999)
Re: E/Gnome window placement quirks Daniel Burrows
How do you start gnome? (solved) Bryan Schmidt (Wed Mar 3 15:27:06 1999)
How do you start gnome? Bryan Schmidt (Wed Mar 3 14:53:27 1999)
balsa compile Sigmund Freud (Wed Mar 3 13:57:27 1999)
Re:
libungif.so.4? Jason N Pratt (Wed Mar 3 12:06:26 1999)
Re: libungif.so.4? Daniel Veillard
Re: libungif.so.4? Harry Henry Gebel
Difficulties subscribing to gnome-list from home Tim Lewis (Wed Mar 3
11:51:59 1999)
orbitgkt.c kills compile for gnome-libs Shane William Rogers (Wed Mar 3
10:53:07 1999)
Eterm is looking at e's bg, not gnome's Mike Dickson (Wed Mar 3 10:30:30 1999)
Re: Eterm is looking at e's bg, not gnome's Daniel Burrows
Re: Eterm is looking at e's bg, not gnome's Greg Fall
Re: Eterm is looking at e's bg, not gnome's Tomas Ogren
gdm problems Marcin Gorycki (Wed Mar 3 10:25:24 1999)
Gnome without sound Aaron Held (Wed Mar 3 09:49:08 1999)
compile gdm i2ambler (Wed Mar 3 08:41:31 1999)
OT: Blackbox... Jason N Pratt (Wed Mar 3 08:17:27 1999)
Re: OT: Blackbox... Gleef
balsa-v0.4.6.2 on gnome-0.98 Adam Moyes (Wed Mar 3 07:04:29 1999)
RPM problem Benjamin Walling (Wed Mar 3 07:00:29 1999)
Re: RPM problem Gleef
Reducing size of icone and panel Franco Spinelli (Wed Mar 3 04:01:30 1999)
Re: Reducing size of icone and panel James Henstridge
Re: Reducing size of icone and panel Shooby Ban
Startup help for a newbie? Jim Meyer (Wed Mar 3 02:00:31 1999)
Re: Startup help for a newbie? James Henstridge
Re: Startup help for a newbie? Jim Meyer
Re: Startup help for a newbie? James Henstridge
gnumeric Michel Bertignac (Wed Mar 3 00:18:41 1999)
Re: gnumeric Havoc Pennington
RE: gnumeric Michel Bertignac
RE: gnumeric James Henstridge
gmc segfault Daniel Burrows (Tue Mar 2 23:59:40 1999)
The Real State of GNOME Albert Strasheim (Tue Mar 2 22:38:41 1999)
Gnome WindowMaker App Icons won't stay away! Harry Henry Gebel (Tue
Mar 2 19:16:30 1999)
Re: GTK Themes and Font Sizes Matt Martin (Tue Mar 2 19:14:08 1999)
running Gnome without sound Aaron Held (Tue Mar 2 18:32:23 1999)
Off the topic. Simon Murcott (Tue Mar 2 18:24:41 1999)
Proper TERM value for gnome-terminal under Solaris 2.6 Glenn
Kronschnabl (Tue Mar 2 17:27:01 1999)
Re: Gnome-stones Carsten Schaar (Tue Mar 2 16:57:51 1999)
Re: Gnome-stones Carsten Schaar (Tue Mar 2 16:53:24 1999)
pre1.0 Michael Hall (Tue Mar 2 15:42:44 1999)
gnome-session and psuedorandom X crashes. Marshal Wong (Tue Mar 2
14:59:30 1999)
RE: gnome-session and psuedorandom X crashes. Fox, Kevin M
panel bug Fox, Kevin M (Tue Mar 2 14:34:40 1999)
Re: panel bug Arup Kanjilal
Re: panel bug Daniel Burrows
Re: panel bug Daniel Burrows
gtop on Solaris 2.6? run-time errors Glenn Kronschnabl (Tue Mar 2 14:27:59
1999)
Re: gtop on Solaris 2.6? run-time errors Martin Baulig
[slight bug? + patch] gnome-pager Mike McEwan (Tue Mar 2 14:06:38 1999)
Re: [slight bug? + patch] gnome-pager Jesse D . Sightler
Re: [slight bug? + patch] gnome-pager Peter Wainwright
Re: GLIB_SYSDEF_POLLIN kmb (Tue Mar 2 10:17:07 1999)
Bizarre problem with panel and E Daniel Burrows (Tue Mar 2 08:48:16 1999)
Re: Bizarre problem with panel and E Daniel Burrows
Audiofile library -endedness problems? Mark R. Bowyer (Tue Mar 2 07:22:01
1999)
Gmc Desktop and Enlightenment James M. Cape (Tue Mar 2 04:20:52 1999)
First installation and running. A few newbie Questions. Kerry Todyruik
(Tue Mar 2 03:11:44 1999)
Re: First installation and running. A few newbie Questions. Jesse D .
Sightler
Re: Loading things directly from targz/zip files? Stefan Mattauch (Tue Mar 2
02:22:15 1999)
Re: RPM snapshots Gleef (Tue Mar 2 01:55:55 1999)
Re: enlightenment & gnome window placement - solution? Colin Walters
(Tue Mar 2 01:36:04 1999)
enlightenment themes? hitch (Tue Mar 2 00:38:19 1999)
Re: enlightenment themes? Spud
RE: enlightenment themes? David Puryear
RE: enlightenment themes? Federico David Sacerdoti
RE: enlightenment themes? David Puryear
[BUGS] Panel Menu Editor! Jesse D . Sightler (Mon Mar 1 23:49:17 1999)
Re: autoconf-2.13 kmb (Mon Mar 1 23:20:28 1999)
Re: autoconf-2.13 James M. Cape
Re: autoconf-2.13 David Ford
Balsa dies in compile James M. Cape (Mon Mar 1 22:48:27 1999)
Re: Balsa dies in compile Jesse D . Sightler
Panel segfault Jason Tackaberry (Mon Mar 1 22:40:30 1999)
Re: Panel segfault Elliot Lee
Re: Panel segfault Daniel Burrows
GUILE won't compile hhv (Mon Mar 1 22:36:16 1999)
Gnome-guile Compile Dies James M. Cape (Mon Mar 1 22:12:35 1999)
Re: gdm submission Todd Graham Lewis (Mon Mar 1 21:28:45 1999)
gdm submission Todd Graham Lewis (Mon Mar 1 21:00:41 1999)
Re: gdm submission Robert Bihlmeyer
Re: gdm submission Matthew Kirkwood
Re: gdm submission Robert Bihlmeyer
RE: gdm submission Fox, Kevin M
Re: gdm submission Sam Vilain
RE: gdm submission Todd Graham Lewis
Re: gdm submission Erik Andersen
Re: gdm submission Todd Graham Lewis
Re: gdm submission Tomas Ogren
RE: gdm submission Fox, Kevin M
RE: gdm submission Fox, Kevin M
Re: gdm submission Sam Vilain
Re: gdm submission klw
RE: gdm submission Wicks Robert-CRW051C
RE: gdm submission Guillermo S. Romero / unnamed / Familia Romero
RE: gdm submission Fox, Kevin M
RE: gdm submission Todd Graham Lewis
RE: gdm submission Fox, Kevin M
GMC and NFS ~home Bryson Borg (Mon Mar 1 20:36:39 1999)
connection refused by server -> core dump Ronald de Man (Mon Mar 1
20:10:04 1999)
Hiding panel James Charles Lewis (Mon Mar 1 19:40:27 1999)
Re: Hiding panel John St . Clair
GtkICQ and panel Mohammad Abdin (Mon Mar 1 18:38:50 1999)
enlightenment & gnome window placement Colin Walters (Mon Mar 1 18:37:10
1999)
Re: enlightenment & gnome window placement Daniel Burrows
Re: enlightenment & gnome window placement Spud
Re: enlightenment & gnome window placement Matt Martin
Gnome-mixer John St . Clair (Mon Mar 1 18:24:11 1999)
Gnome-guile & CVS GTK+ James M. Cape (Mon Mar 1 17:55:52 1999)
gdk_imlib Mark Toller (Mon Mar 1 17:18:11 1999)
guile-gtk part 2 Sigmund Freud (Mon Mar 1 17:16:15 1999)
GTk 1.20 breaks guitar Michael Perry (Mon Mar 1 17:02:24 1999)
Re: GTk 1.20 breaks guitar Michael Perry
Re: GTk 1.20 breaks guitar Michal Palczewski
Re: GTk 1.20 breaks guitar Michael Perry
Re: gedit-0.5.1 Alex Roberts (Mon Mar 1 14:46:28 1999)
gnome-guile won't compile Miguel A. Figueroa (Mon Mar 1 14:14:53 1999)
Re: gnome-guile won't compile Marius Vollmer
Re: proper gnome startup procedure Tim Lewis (Mon Mar 1 14:10:44 1999)
GDM, and how to use it] Tim Lewis (Mon Mar 1 14:07:06 1999)
Re: GDM, and how to use it] Andrew Clausen
Re: GDM, and how to use it] Tim Lewis
Problems with swallowed XEyes Daniel Burrows (Mon Mar 1 13:58:45 1999)
libgtop probs Sigmund Freud (Mon Mar 1 12:26:01 1999)
Editing the menu Mike Dickson (Mon Mar 1 11:59:02 1999)
balsa 0.4.9: configure: can't find libPropList?? Mario Vukelic (Mon Mar 1
09:34:08 1999)
Re: gnome-objc 0.99.8 and GTK 1.2.0 (fwd) Mario Vukelic (Mon Mar 1 09:29:34
1999)
Re: gnome-objc 0.99.8 and GTK 1.2.0 (fwd) James Henstridge
Re: gnome-objc 0.99.8 and GTK 1.2.0 (fwd) Mario Vukelic
E keybindings Jason Coposky (Mon Mar 1 09:25:41 1999)
Re: Gedit not compiling Mario Vukelic (Mon Mar 1 09:06:24 1999)
RE: Getting the gnome going Michael James (Mon Mar 1 09:05:39 1999)
gmc 4.5.21: make check does rm -rf to th mc source tree Mario Vukelic
(Mon Mar 1 08:55:57 1999)
Task bar Mark Toller (Mon Mar 1 08:55:08 1999)
Task bar Mark Toller
Re: Task bar Daniel Burrows
Re: ORBit-0.4.0 compile problem Mario Vukelic (Mon Mar 1 08:52:12 1999)
guile-gtk Sigmund Freud (Mon Mar 1 05:57:17 1999)
Re: guile-gtk Marius Vollmer
Re: guile-gtk David Knight
Re: GLIB_SYSDEF_POLLIN kmb (Mon Mar 1 05:09:10 1999)
gmc crashing Mike Palczewski (Mon Mar 1 04:35:03 1999)
Re: New file manager 4.5.23 is out Mike Palczewski (Mon Mar 1 04:27:36 1999)
Re: New file manager 4.5.23 is out Mike Palczewski (Mon Mar 1 04:26:25 1999)
RE: GNOME development in C++ Marcin Gorycki (Mon Mar 1 03:34:55 1999)
RE: gnometris Marcin Gorycki (Mon Mar 1 03:26:59 1999)
Re: Session management: Don't save session on exit/Save session now
Robert Bihlmeyer (Mon Mar 1 03:06:28 1999)
Re: ESD options Robert Bihlmeyer (Mon Mar 1 03:05:32 1999)
Re: GTK Themes and Font Sizes James M. Cape (Mon Mar 1 02:14:50 1999)
Dependancies Brian Clark
Re: Dependancies James Henstridge
Re: Control-Center Jesse D . Sightler (Mon Mar 1 01:32:35 1999)
Gnome canvas: should it be part of gtk+? Jason Tackaberry (Mon Mar 1
01:24:57 1999)
Re: Gnome canvas: should it be part of gtk+? Havoc Pennington
Re: Gnome canvas: should it be part of gtk+? Marius Vollmer
Quite a few questions... Spud (Mon Mar 1 01:22:20 1999)
Re: Quite a few questions... David Ford
Re: Control-Center Michal Palczewski (Mon Mar 1 00:30:43 1999)
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
my initial reaction to the GNOME 1.0 release is that of mixed feelings. i feel that the GNOME 1.0 release was good in that the big 1.0 release of any product is a milestone for that product and shouldn't be ignored. on the other hand, rushing releases to meet release dates, such as our friends Microsoft, is never a good way to establish such an important version.
such is the case with The GIMP. the gimp, over the years, has done exactly what a good peice of software should do. on unmarked release dates, new versions of the gimp are released, with numerous changes; often the patch sizes are quite large. only but a few times has a version been released that dosen't include a big update, except that of tiny important bug fixes. the idea about the release date of versions can be also traced to #gimp on irc.gimp.org on irc. you will find the place where most of the gimp developers hang out and discuss gimp code along with other projects, such as the gnome project. if you ask when the next version of the gimp is going to be released, and someone is not idle, you will most likely receive an answer such as "we dont know", or "a date is not set". a version is released when they feel that enough changes and fixes have been incorperated into the version.
the GNOME 1.0 release was set for today, Wednesday March 3rd, 1999. you could almost be sure a delay wasen't going to happen, unless of a program critical problem. as Tuesday ended, and Wednesday rolled around, news was broken of the GNOME 1.0 release. immedially hundreds of people flocked to ftp.gnome.org, also checking the mirrors to find out that they weren't synced yet and didn't have the 1.0 release. as many downloaded, compiled, or maybe just rpm'ed, problems were encountered, and solutions were hard to find, in some cases. such is the problem when releases are rushed.
i feel that GNOME 1.1 will be much more developed than 1.0, and will be easier for the linux community as a whole to have GNOME working problem-free, or at least better than 1.0. no one wants another Microsoft-like product to ruin the linux long-standing idea of non-marked release dates.
--
scott miga
hello. nice to meet you. thanks for replying. lets go through this step by step shall we..
"The "date was set" this last monday. OMFG, that is such a long time", isnt it though? in my "comment"(comment in the sense, my opinion, not a news article or anything), i said that release dates werent set at all, i dont care if the release date was set 5 hours prior to the release. i was writing about the point of unplanned releases.
"Are you a gnome developer", yes, i am Linus Torvalds. no really, i am not a gnome developer, and dont plan on being one. must i be a gnome developer in order to post my comments on the release of a certain product? in that case, Microsoft would have a really really really huge developer status. have i installed/worked with 1.0?, yes i have. cool, eh? i installed it about 2 hours after it was released, done by compiling the source. i encountered some compile problems, as well as some run-time problems, none of which were major, all of which i was able to rid of quickly.
"are you an elite kde user?", no, i am not an elite kde user. yes, i have used kde in the past, monkeyed around with it, but no, Window Maker is my choice of a window manager, and occassionally i use GNOME to test out certain peices of software, and more importantly.. to test out the new releases, expecially the current 1.0. "ignorant people should die.", please, please. thus be the reason why Rob should rid slashdot of Anonymous Cowards.
any more questions or comments? please feel free to email me, that is, if you are brave enough to reveal your real identity. thanks for your comments, and have a nice day. :)
--
scott miga
yes, its true. i am a 15 year old monkey-spank. no really kiddies, im really not. why did i not reply to his "thats not all you feel" comment.. a few reasons..
1) it was immedially ignored, totally-childish.
2) just re-read his comment, its sad.. really it is
3) last of all, him, and you for that matter, are scared of revealing your true identity. its people like the Anonymous Cowards that ruin slashdot and make it a worse and worse experience for the rest of us who wish to come here and discuss the latest happenings in the computer world, with your pathetic remarks, and i dont even want to waste my time typing to re-comment on such praising peices of work.
once again, thanks for replying. it always makes my day to be able to come back and reply to such intelligent and humble minded comments. any more comments/questions, email me.
/shouldn't you guys be in school right now?
--
scott miga
heya, whats up? good to see your still around. this will be a short one, i don't wanna waste time getting you mad. about the logging in, uhm, theres not a skill involved. if you would like to post real comments, people get accounts. people, err, kids like you go around posting rude and malicious comments making fun of people, or at least trying to. its sad, it really is. sorry to inform you, but your 1 million dollars poorer. as to the age deal, i am 23, and i attend Fredonia State University in NY(SUNY). last time i checked 23 year olds weren't allowed in high school, hey, i may be wrong.. really buddy.. email me.. cause im tired of checking back here to see if my wonderful admirer has replyed.
--
scott miga
really? cool man, i didnt know that. hold on.. ill call my mommy and ask her what age i am.... ok, shes claims im 23. i dunno, its funny, why would i know what age i am? next.. your right.. i go to a school in new york, SUNY, Fredonia State University, in New York. woa, you know my name? could that be because maybe i post it everywhere, espically on themes.org. your a hax0r man. stop hax0ring me. im scared. no really, lets grow up here, drop the diapers and walk on your own two feet.
--
scott miga
your right, i cant.. thats why i don't.
--
scott miga
hey that was good thinking.. on your part. woa, you broke the clain of replyed comments headers. now im sad. =\
--
scott miga
----
----Daniel Pearson of the UMBC LUG
You know, it took me a few moments of staring at your comment, but I just got that, and now I'm snickering quite heartily.
----
----Daniel Pearson of the UMBC LUG
Gimp 1.1.2 does compile with GTK 1.2. I just recompiled it this morning to get my theme support back.
My Slashdot account is old enough to drink...
Oh fer crissakes, get over yourself. There are no experts who are not end-users, otherwise there's a large chunk of required experience missing. Take your dishwasher, for example. Even if you have an EE degree and know every blooming detail of how the device is designed, constructed, and operated -- if you never pushed the start button yourself, you're not an expert. Knowledge without experience is nothing but faith, and faith doth not make an expert.
As this applies to GNOME, it's a good thing. Experts are borne of end-users, so the more end-users there are, the more experts we have in the making. And I doubt you would argue with the desirability of creating more experts.
I think not...(*poof*)
Wow! I'm not the only one that dislikes KDE from a usability point of view, then. I have other reasons for believing it to be bad for the Linux community, too, but primarily, I don't use it because I just don't like it. Maybe GNOME will be different. I guess I'll find out when (if) I get round to trying it.
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
Which will it be then?
just how well did the 486/25 perform? was it useable?
peterrenshaw ~ Another Scrappy Startup
And the thread is still growing...
-- Jochen
If there's SRPMS on there, you could just download all of them and rebuild PPC versions of the RPMS.
It'd take quite a while -- Gnome isn't quick to compile -- but it should work. I squeaked in a moment or two after this article was posted here and got right into the server, but I just grabbed the binary RPMS not the source ones so I don't know if the source ones are there.
Has anyone noticed that 1.0 is *much* less stable than 0.99.7? Its the worst I've seen GNOME in six months! At first I thought it was just my PC at work -- a mishmash of RedHat 5.0, 5.1, 5.2 with multiple GTK versions, half compiled, half RPMS, etc.
But here at home on a clean 5.2 install -- as well as a 5.1 install that hasn't had any GNOME software (only KDE) installed on it, things that used to work perfectly don't work any more. The control panel doesn't function in any usable form. Most of the components of it crash randomly, the Enlightenment one isn't even listed any more.
The menu editor crashes and half the time causes the panel to crash to. In *no* cases has making a change caused the panel menus to actually change, which has worked flawlessly the last five or six versions I've ran.
Half the games seem to crash or not function properly. GNOME sounds seem to cause the system to crash randomly. (Aparently because of wav files missing from what it expects to have, and its not handling the missing file cleanly)
Now I've got to work myself back through downgrading to a version that actually is usable.
This is really pathetic. I think its terrible that such a lousy product would be announced to the public when so many eyes are on Linux this week, and the software works far worse than the multitudes of betas that thousands of people have happily been using over the last few months.
Don't compare GNOME 1.0 to KDE 1.0.
Compare GNOME 1.0 to GNOME 0.99.7 or 99.8.
Then you'll see how much of a piece of crap 1.0 is. Usually software works better when you get off of beta, not worse. Unfortunately when the eyes of the world are on the GNOME team, they've botched things by releasing the least stable version they've had in months.
You're very right. I had to remove 1.0 and go back to 0.99.7 to get three of my systems back to a usable state.
I think its a shame that the GNOME team shot for feature expansion not stability for 1.0. It seems like a poor and careless way to handle the public side of software development. They obviously have every right to code it any way they wish, but this sort of a fiasco just hurts their reputation. Yesterday would've been a big day for KDE if KDE was actually a useful environment.
Lets hope 1.1 or 1.0.1 or some announcement saying "just kidding, *this* is actually 1.0" comes out sometime soon.
> Name me a product which had it's initial release be production ready.
Gimp 1.0 Was pretty darn smooth. Granted it needed some fixes, but the full year in 0.99 mode made it pretty solid.
I think you mean the window manager when you say "user interface." Such as olvwm? The first wm (I used anyway) that had real virtual desktops, where you could drag things between desktops on the virtual desktop window itself? You can set up the wm to mostly stay out of the way, as they say, perfection is achieved not when you can't add anything more, but when you can't take away anything.
...but I can't say much for the rest of the environment. Still, the pager was truly a thing of joy. FVWM's isn't anywhere close to as useful.
BTW- I use textedit some as well. It's a lousy program, though. Now I mostly use strait Emacs or KWrite.
--Lenny
Couldn't get on all day! :-)
--
As long as each individual is facing the TV tube alone, formal freedom poses no threat to privilege.
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
I hope you're not implying he'll be able to set up a scanner and printer w/o problem under MS Windows, are you? If you are, then you are incredibly naive. I deal with "joe sixpacks" all day long at work (I work at a company that sells mulch and soils). There's no way most of them could accomplish this under Windows. Macs, probably.
Drop the 'tude.
I'm not an apologist for Linux/GNOME's short comings, but the guys comments were not constructive at all. He had no point, just dogging on Linux. I've been sick all week, and want to celebrate Gnome 1.0 (runs great!) not listen to somebody's negative rants.
I agree with most everything else you say.
I'm trying to mirror it too. On the T1, it started out as 25K/sec, now it is down to 2.5K/sec, and by the end of the day I suspect it will be 25bytes/sec. :(
I don't know how many of you have used CDE, the only really standart DE for unix until KDE/GNOME (well, i guess openwindows and 4dwm. fine. the only one that didn't totally suck). I've used it a lot in HP-YUCKS.
It consists of a panel at the bottom of the screen with several icons/little menus and some buttons for different desktops, and you can put stuff like a load meter or a biff there. It's ugly, but there you have it. MS prolly ripped it off if anything for their taskbar thing w/menus, buttons (for applications) and little icons. CDE is reasonably wm-independent AFAIK (i've only used it w/mwm, suck).
So there's the origin: a panel, a set of applications (HP has a Motif mail client, text editor, etc etc), separate from the wm, all w/the same look-and-feel (ugly as nuts motif 1.2 on those HPs). The feeling is that the GNOME or KDE panel should provide some similar functionality. I haven't decided whether I'll keep the panel yet -- I like windowmaker's menus just fine...but I do love nifty panel apps almost as much as nifty dock apps. No reason you can't do w/out it tho, if you prefer a clean simple wm menu (i'm really an fvwm2 person, i like it dirt simple)
...or the efficiency of Excel95...
--
Aaron Gaudio
"The fool finds ignorance all around him.
"Every man is a mob, a chain gang of idiots." - Jonathan Nolan, Memento Mori
It is a widget set too, and simplicity or no, the OpenLook widgets are not only ugly but hard to use.
--
Aaron Gaudio
"The fool finds ignorance all around him.
"Every man is a mob, a chain gang of idiots." - Jonathan Nolan, Memento Mori
Change it into a corner panel. Then it will exist at one corner of the screen, vertical or horizontal, and only take up as much space as is needed for the buttons, applets, docked apps, etc.
--
Aaron Gaudio
"The fool finds ignorance all around him.
"Every man is a mob, a chain gang of idiots." - Jonathan Nolan, Memento Mori
Stop whining you jerk.
How's that?
--
Aaron Gaudio
"The fool finds ignorance all around him.
"Every man is a mob, a chain gang of idiots." - Jonathan Nolan, Memento Mori
gnome-session is a session manager, not a window manager.
--
Aaron Gaudio
"The fool finds ignorance all around him.
"Every man is a mob, a chain gang of idiots." - Jonathan Nolan, Memento Mori
I've never had it happen to me. Very often I've had panel crash (actually, usually it crashes before it comes up), yet gnome-session is alive and well. gnome-session is the last thing in my .xinitrc (actually, I start gnome-session in the background with & then get its PID and at the end of .xinitrc I have 'wait SESSIONPID'; seems to work better that way). As long as gnome-session doesn't die, you're fine. The panel can actually be killed without affecting gnome-session; but if you choose Logout from the panel, it sends a message to gnome-session to quit, hence your X server quits (assuming that's the last thing in your .xinitrc).
That's been my experience, anyway.
--
Aaron Gaudio
"The fool finds ignorance all around him.
"Every man is a mob, a chain gang of idiots." - Jonathan Nolan, Memento Mori
So... if I get GNOME, can I still run GIMP? I ask because every time I grab GIMP, I read a little doc file that says GIMP DOESN'T WORK WITH GTK+ 1.1 AND LATER. That is to say, it wants 1.0.x. Which is all well and good, except that GNOME seems to require 1.1 or later. I'm not about to sacrifice GIMP (which I use on practically a daily basis to earn my living) just to pretty up the ol' desktop, but if there's a stable GIMP that'll deal with GNOME, I might try it!
Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
We could always try for the longest thread ever...
Never heard of em.
I'm sure this one will be gone first thing in the morning.
Things sure have slowed down in here...
It had a few major bugs, including one that crashed my system (it involved the bttv driver).
The point is that everybody was very understanding, reported these bugs, and went on to install 2.2.1 and 2.2.2. Give gnome the same chance.
Of course there are those who have already decided that gnome sucks and the sorry state of this release will give them ample opportunity to confirm their assessment. I'd lust like to ask those people to keep their opinions to themselves unless they can put them into words in a *constructive* manner.
--
Fuck the system? Nah, you might catch something.
You can download the SRPMs and rebuild them, but you'll probably want to wait until PPC versions show up on ftp.linuxppc.org or linuxppc.cs.nmt.edu. Recent versions of GTK+ (> 1.1.11 or so) interact badly with the compiler on PowerPCs, so you need to apply a patch and change a compiler option before building. Otherwise, any GTK+-based apps (like most of GNOME) segmentation fault right away.
Colin
Try to do anything like that under Windows or KDE. It provides all the functionallity of Windowmaker's dock plus some.
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
I had the same feeling, but after using .99.8 I must say that a LOT has changed. Give it a try.
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
Hello
By the admision of the people working on the GNOME project (in previous threads on the mailing list for one source.), GNOME is just getting started. It is now entering it's most important phase, public testing. I've been using gnome since the first (.rpm) release. The user interface is good but not revolutionary... but it could be.
System admins, net admins, gurus, programmers, 0.xers, and computer savvy people in general have a mission....
To listen to the moms, clerks, grandmas, kids, reporters, clowns, technophobics, crazy, and even uninterested people to find out how gnome can be a a better tool for making novice home system administration possible.
We should consider ourselves chalenged! Not finished. Not by a long shot! The Number One priority should be to help even if it is just listening to peoples complaints, and bouncing around possible solutions.
Lets stick up for everyone, and give everyone the opportunity to learn what the Linux philosphy is about. We would want the same for ourselves.
Matthew Newhall
President of LILUG
Novel theory: Modern Man evolved from psychopath
I didn't read this story last night (I was still pissed bout my linux.com "share the wealth" post being deleted... argh), but I noticed at only a couple of hours this had 260+ comments. Now it's like 500.
/. /.'ed itself...
The last time this happened
What's wrong with BEER!?!
I had problems using the rpm's coming from an old E 0.15 daily snap and gnome 0.99.3 but clearing out all the old E, gnome, and their libs (strinlist, libFnLib, libesd*, etc), killing all my home dirs dotfiles that related (.gnome, .enlightenment dir, .ee, etc) then starting over with a rpm -U of everything with --nodeps and a simple gnome-session after a few utils in my .xinitrc (first time I spawned gnome-session... doh!) and everything has worked beautifully.
Various ramblings
This is just f*cking great!
Congratulations Gnome Developers around the World!
Oliver
Get my e-mail after a captcha test in: http://tinymailt
There is a ocean of difference in importance between the license of a single app, and the license of the basic toolkit used for the whole UI. Most of us can live with using some apps based upon proprietary licensees, but we can't accept those impurities so make their way into the core of the operating system, and the UI is very much a part of that core.
I am sorry to say this, but KDE era is now completely over. Those of us who read the interviews with the Gnome and KDE developers in Linux Journal, know that KDE has a lot of catching up to do. CORBA, TrueType, anti-aliasing, xDND, language wrappers are all things in GNOME today, but only planned KDE. And even their LGPL toolkit effort stranded, and with a proprietary toolkit in the bottom it can never be anything for the majority of the Linux community than a distant second choice. And before anybodu claims otherwise, a patchware license will never be anything but a pale shadow of true free software licenses like LGPL, GPL and BSD.
Proprietary toolkit and proprietary browser closed source browser. A perfect and revealing fit.
Blackbox is also Gnome-aware. I believe several other window managers either have it or are working on it.
see below:
"GNOME is designed to be portable to any modern UNIX system. Currently, it runs on Linux systems, BSD variants, Solaris, HP-UX, and Digital Unix. In the future, it will be included in Red Hat Linux, and other Linux distributions such as Debian GNU/Linux and SuSE Linux."
also:
"Because GNOME supports many programming languages, including Ada, C, C++, Objective-C, TOM, Perl, Python, Guile, developers are able to write GNOME programs in their language of choice."
now i don't want to be an ass about this, but get your facts straight before you spout...
Its spelt "L-I-N-U-X", but pronunced as "Free Beer"
To all others who would try to hype interfaces based on proprietary libraries and in doing so try to make us stray from our quest for a Free OS, I say we should all sing along:
"They can try to bind our arms,
But they cannot chain our minds or hearts!
We will keep the faith inside our souls
And never let it go.
We are forever free."
- Stratovarius, Forever Free
GO GNOME! GO LINUX! WORLD DOMINATION!!!!!!!!
--
Kyle R. Rose, MIT LCS
[ home ]
E isn't completely bug-free, but even Raster emphasizes that it's beta software (although he does try to stress its stability, also). Before starting to use it again in February, my last try was back in October or so, when it seemed really unstable and remarkably slow. Now, however, it's quite fast and very stable.
You still get occasional crashes, but the blatant bugs have all been fixed. I'm still running the Feb 16 snap, so I'm not sure what's happened since then. Check out the changelogs. (www.enlightenment.org)
--
Kyle R. Rose, MIT LCS
[ home ]
Configuring it by hand is a bear, but if you use e-conf and others' themes, it's great. I'm using the BrushedMetal theme in E and the analagous one in gtk and my desktop looks awesome. This for only about 5 minutes of configuration.
--
Kyle R. Rose, MIT LCS
[ home ]
Well, culling out the poseurs from the true free-believers is somewhat akin to testing witches. Everyone is exposed to my rantings, whether they are guilty or not. =)
That said, I am glad that KDE exists if just because it gave the free software community a kick in the ass to get a truly free graphical user interface started. Sure, I don't like KDE for the still-as-yet-unresolved Qt licensing issues; but I also think it just looks like crap.
But, in the end of the day, to each his own...
At this point, I'm just confident that GNOME will win out. As a Debian user, this is the one time I am glad that RedHat has the muscle it does. RedHat's support will more than make up for KDE's head start. Additionally, in a few months, maturity will be a non-issue, and the greater number of killer apps for GTK (the GIMP, Gnumeric, whatever you consider important) combined with RedHat's support will starve KDE.
If this sounds hostile or confrontational, keep in mind that AS I SAID a few weeks ago, I will embrace the KDE developers and users as brothers once Qt goes free. It still isn't. I'm waiting, TrollTech...
Ye believers: Keep the faith!
--
Kyle R. Rose, MIT LCS
[ home ]
IF and WHEN Qt 2.0 is released under the QPL, I'll shut the hell up about it.
It hasn't yet, so I will feel free to share my warnings with others.
--
Kyle R. Rose, MIT LCS
[ home ]
HAS THE CVS CODE BEEN RELEASED UNDER QPL?
Do not say ANYTHING else until you have answered THAT QUESTION.
--
Kyle R. Rose, MIT LCS
[ home ]
Why is warning people about such a distinct possibility being a fool? Do you have any idea how many people are going to scream "I told you so!" when TrollTech pulls the plug on the QPL, and all the KDE developers come running to the former Harmony developers and beg them to restart work? I'm not going to do that; rather, I'm going to warn people in advance so they aren't caught by TT unawares.
Okay, so you're thinking: "What's the worst that can happen when TT pulls the plug? So, we all go back to using WindowMaker or FVWM2 or whatever, and life goes on."
Wrong.
Consider all the people who are adversely affected by such a move: the KDE developers, who spent countless hours writing software for a toolkit they knew wasn't free; the users of the various KDE-centered distributions, who suddenly have to learn something else new; and the businesses who find that they have to spend time and money converting their systems and retraining their employees. Now, who's being the fool?
One QT is released under the QPL, this all becomes moot, because it'll already be free, and TT can't take it back. Until then, however, we should consider the possibility that the reason why TT is stalling is not a good one. This is not paranoia; this is realizing what "freedom" means and trying to protect it by not trusting those who don't openly embrace it.
Do not underestimate the value of freedom. Linux was built on freedom: the freedom to use, copy, modify, and distribute the software as you see fit, with very few restrictions. If you don't see a problem with TT's stalling in releasing a version of QT under the QPL (why not release QT 1.x under QPL? Huh?) then I argue that you do not understand a very fundamental point about Linux development and why it has prospered as it has.
--
Kyle R. Rose, MIT LCS
[ home ]
You'd be surprised - There were HUGE increases in stability since 0.99.3. Those guys were in Insane Bug Fix Mode, and GNOME is now quite stable. Take a look at it.
-- "Machines have no conscience" - Queensryche
That list is so insanely out of date it's not even funny.
-- "Machines have no conscience" - Queensryche
QT, these days, is more free than GPL software. The QPL is just like the GPL, going so far as QPL-encoumbering any software derived from the QT libraries. The only real difference from the GPL is that you can pay the developers to get a non-encoumbered version.
In fact, I am surprised that QT just does not release a GPL (not LGPL) version of the QT toolkit for the free-software people, and a non-GPL version for $1500 a developer.
The secret to enjoying Slashdot is to realize that it should not be taken too seriously.
The foot is cool. If Red Hat takes out the foot, I'm leaving Red Hat forever. Especially if they replace it with that obnoxious "secret man" logo. Am I the only one who was annoyed by them slathering that thing all over FVWM?
The Gnome Foot will stomp everyone!!!
support gun control: take guns from cops
Naw, I just think Malda hasn't woken up yet. :-) Too much partying at Linux World, maybe? Of course, he is on the west cost at the moment, so that may be it...
...unless you believe that the universe, and thus the passage of time, will end. Otherwise, there will never be a "last comment."
So, hah!
Alright, let's get philosophical...
It matters in what context comments are allowed. I could always comment on another section of slashdot on this article, so even if this article gets closed to comments there is no "last comment." For a last comment in that sense, slashdot itself would have to end. But then I could continue commenting on another website, etc., etc... If you define a comment as a sentient reaction that can be causally linked to the existence of the article, then all you need for comments is the continuation of time and sentience.
So, hah!
Hah!
really?
Somebody get our flag back!
I think we're sunk - once the media finds out just how laughable this clunker is compared to KDE, you can kiss all the great coverage good bye.
This thing is NOT READY for public consumption under any circumstances!!!
GMC is a really BAD joke - and I mean that seriously. A decent file manager is the core of any good GUI - GMC SUCKS.
I can't believe that the Gnome Zealots unleashed this clunker to the press. Its terrible. Someday - maybe. But now?
And in all seriousness - E as a WM???? PUHLEEESE!
WE'RE SUNK.
Hehe, I couldn't agree more with you. GEM was also the built in Window-system in the Atari ST/STE/TT/Falcon series of computers and I loved it! Swift and nice even on an old 8 MHz machine...
However, haven't tried Gnome or KDE yet, maybe I find them to be even better...
Nothing like a sweeping generalization with no facts. Very convincing.
Why do you care if some people like and use GNOME? If you want the one true solution, there's a company in Redmond, WA that will sell you one. God forbid we have a choice on the Linux Desktop...
--
This signature left intentionally blank.
There are other people with flame throwers that would say that Linux is a cheap, badly written clone of FreeBSD. Should I format my HD and follow their lead?
It could also easily be argued that KDE is a cheap, badly written clone of Windows. That's not my opinion, but it's just as supportable a position as yours. As a matter of fact, it's a more supportable position. KDE looks a lot more like Windows than GNOME looks like KDE. Furthermore, Windows and MS Office exist now and Windows has a 100 million users. Heck, Windows is "free", you get it with virtually every machine you buy. Obviously the people working on KDE are just wasting their time.
I am not slamming KDE, I'm just bouncing your logic back at you.
--
This signature left intentionally blank.
Its just too big. Bungs libraries everywhere, has far too many dependencies, and is just too much hassle. The only reason I installed it was to try out a few programs that I liked the look of. In the end it wasn't worth the effort. But I wonder how many of these programs actually *need* Gnome to be usable. Me, I'll just stick with Window Maker and an xterm. Launches all the apps I need and doesn't fill my lib dirs up.
Congrats to the people who've contributed to it though. Not taking anything away from them, they did a good job. It's just I won't be using it.
Yeah, I did look at KDE a while back. Personally, I think its butt ugly. Like I said before, I don't really need the GNOME integration... just some of the apps are cool. Ah well.. I'll just wait until GNUStep is a little more mature. And yes, I know its not a desktop environment. It's better... ;)
The Dallas Morning News article alluded to a Wednesday release... I was rebuilding a box on monday, but held off til today for Gnome, fingers crossed. Yay! :-)
Despite some of the whining you'll hear around here, you have an immense amount of gratitude from hundreds, if not thousands, of people.
Way to go Gnome!
Not sure there's enough room for both of us in this town... (/me draws gun)
I submitted [___] bug reports.
:-)
If your experience is true, then that really is unfortunate. Before you complain too much, however, please fill in the blank in the statement above. If the number you provide is 1, please STFU. Especially with that "tsk, tsk, shame" stuff.
If you did help with debugging, then >I'll STFU.
"less than 1" - damn HTML. :-)
You were incorrect.
--
Nope, the canvas really is cool. It's a generic object that support primitive shapes, text, and programmer defined objects which can be extensions of those primitives, includes built in antialiasing, rotation, scaling, zooming, etc. It's cool. Believe it or not, gnumeric, the spreadsheet, uses custom objects on a canvas for its display.
--
libgtop is under the GPL, because it's a non-essential component library that provides extra functionality to free applications.
--
Everything from these first few months says 1999 could change the world.
Time to stop arguing.
Time to make it.
Time KDE and Gnome got that low level compatibility and at least minimal interoperability.
Then the best one will win. Then we will know which was best.
Good luck to all.
I am English. We are a mongrel race :-) /. thinks of them)
Some of my ancestors are French. (Hey we know
what most od
But I am English. Go figure.
Yeah, the Amiga's message ports are incredibly efficient, but they rely on the fact that the Amiga has no virtual memory or memory protection. It was quite common to pass around pointers to your own internal data structures. All addresses were physical addresses, so other processes could look at your data. Efficient, yes. Safe, no. From a technical point of view, the Amiga was an amazing machine, but no memory protection was one of it's definite weaknesses.
Speaking of MUI, MUI was awful. The programmer's interface was badly designed (there are several things that would make any good programmer nausious). There were also many things about it's UI that were awful. The prefs program was unusable on a 640x200 screen (which was the standrad on NTSC Amigas). The only thing that made MUI efficient at all was that it ran on top of boopsi and the Amiga OS. Imagine how bloated and disgusting it would be if it was ported to X.
Of course, boopsi had its problems too. Having a single "dispatch" function is a pretty bad way to implement an object system. Imagine how many branches/calls are executed in a deep class hierarchy if you call a method that's never been overridden? Yikes...
How can I be sure that they will not change license for core libs to GPL? Does the current license protect from such a voluntary restriction of choice?
Andrew
RedHat doesn't own GNOME. They contribute a great deal of money and time to a wonderful desktop project, which they then GPL and give away for free!!
Support choice! Use GNOME! Use KDE! Use EMACS! Use VI! Use LyX, use WordPerfect, use Quake, use Twisted Reality. Use computers! They're cool.
Let's all stop trolling and PARTY! This is a great day in free software's history. We finally have a garuanteed static API which we can code to. GNOME can start moving onto the desktop, in tandem with KDE, replacing those proprietary standards who shall remain nameless to protect the guilty.
Glyph Lefkowitz - Project leader, Twisted Matrix Labs
Writer, Programmer - Not a member of the TSU
To anyone from the GNOME development effort who's reading this: it is broken. It is broken beyond all possible releasability -- take this release down now, lest it be an example to the corporate world of the impetuousness and instability of the free software movement and the unreliability of the code it produces. I was using 0.99.8 relatively happily (with a few bugs, of course, but that was development software -- this is supposed to be a release!!! Now, almost every GNOME component is broken, even after removing every remnant of the previous install including all preferences and libraries.
I really like GNOME's proposed feature set -- however, the importance of features must be measured concurrently with the importance of bugfixes. This release was supposed to be concentrating on bugfixes!!!
Because of this release, I will be re-installing KDE and waiting for a release of GNOME that I can actually work with. Until one comes out, I'm done testing this crap and waiting on a bunch of developers who, it seems, don't know how to debug, or don't care about their users.
This is a cruel mockery of a desktop environment. It is supposed to be competing with products like windows. We all love to mock microsoft's substandard operating system -- but in terms of actually working with software, GNOME is much, much worse. I hope that the developers will see their error here, mark 1.0 as unreleasable software and publicly state that there will be a release soon including ONLY BUG FIXES, so it is stable enough to use and develop for and on.
--glyph
Glyph Lefkowitz - Project leader, Twisted Matrix Labs
Writer, Programmer - Not a member of the TSU
I ran most of the 0.99.x series, and unless they've fixed more bugs in the last two weeks than they have since 0.99.0, then gnome is still way too unstable for the 1.0 tag.
I *heart* Gnome, but please. Giving something a 1.0 version number before it's stable is a bad move.
Linux evangelism has focused largely on how damn stable we are. RedHat is one of the more public commercial faces of Linux, and they're putting their weight behind a project that while incredibly nifty, has more annoying bugs than Win 98.
Eugh.
The more I learn about the Internet, the more amazed I am that it works at all.
That "some features" are mainly the Pager/Tasklist and probably a few more things. But nothing that is really required, it's just some nice improvements. You can really use it with any window manager.
SASG homepage with link to MUI
Those are not comparable. You can compare GTK+ and MUI, however. They are both widget sets (GNOME is much more, it is just based on GTK+), and I don't see why MUI should be better than GTK+ (MUI is of course commercial closed-source software, which makes for crawling slow development, especially on a niche platform like the AmigaOS).
Except that MUI's look could be easily configured through a GUI, but is not as configurable as GTK+ with themes.
"Also, a widget's code only ever loaded once - in the whole system. Now thats whay I call a shared library ..."
Actually that's just how shared libraries work under most modern Unixes including Linux. And that's how GTK/GNOME works therefore (all widgets in the libraries are only loaded once per system).
Additionally the parts of the library that are not used are not loaded, same with binaries. AmigaOS may be saving resources, but you can save much more with virtual memory.
There is something wrong with your machine then.
I have a p133, and it runs fine. No performance issues (except for using the background manager to swap 6mb backgrounds in and out. it doesn't like that much.) and my copy of 1.1pre2 has been running for almost 27 days STRAIGHT with no problems.
The copper bosses killed you, Joe. 'I never died', said he.
Also you could try a distribution that has KDE pre-configured. I recently switched over to Linux completely b/c I was sick of Win95 crashes. I currently using Linux-Mandrake, and have recommended it to several people -- three have already picked it up. I'll try gnome when I want to upgrade. Till then, though, I'm happy.
For that matter both KDE and GNOME have based their BTS on the Debian BTS.
What does .tar.gz have to do with Slack? Slackware distro files are .tgz sure, but they are binaries nonetheless...
Source code is compiled the same way on any Linux distro...
How many home computers is Linux in?
.
You don't really need a DE... unless you are dependent on dragging and dropping.
While I'll admit that a document-centric paradigm is the "right way" and the way of the future, I am in no way dependent on it.
.
It really makes you sound like an idiot.
Just some neighborly advice... I know you are probably NOT an idiot.
.
Your problems seem to be mainly RPMs.. this is a braindead packaging scheme. Try Debian, it has a much more full-featured and foolproof packaging system.
Linux is screwed for Joe-ex-Windows-"power"-user for at least another year. We are trying to make it simpler for you... please be patient
.
thinking...
hmmm, I'm sorry you have an empty life.
Have fun!
.
I have no problems with QT... even if it was a completely closed and proprietary license I would have no problems with it.
What I do have a problem with is the KDE team statically linking OTHER PEOPLES' GPL'ed CODE with a non-free toolkit and distributing the binaries in a BLATANT VIOLATION of the GPL.
They might as well just bomb the FSF and get it over with...
.
Most software development consists of custom software for one company or another developed by their own or contracted programmers (who get paid well, usually) the source code would have little value to anyone else.
Programmers/companies who make a general purpose over-the-counter package and market it themselves have a decision to make... GPL or not.
There is NOTHING in the GPL that states that you can't charge for the software, only that you must make the source available to people who get the binaries. There is admittedly a danger of people just getting the source and giving it away / selling it to everyone else... and you have no legal recourse. Or they could make a few changes, compile it, and illegally sell it as a non-GPL product; it would be very hard to prove that a particular compiled binary contains GPLed code.
However, if you are selling only to other businesses, why would they give away the source to other businesses and give them an edge with a free version of what they just forked over a bunch of cash for? And if they have no programmers, they won't even know what source code IS, much less compile it and sell it non-GPL.
The only real problem is for those who make programs for the end user... and this is really a small market compared to solutions for business.
.
If you're going to label people morons you might want to make sure you spell "category" correctly.
Just a suggestion.
.
I don't see how you got RedHat out of his post...
.
Can the panel be made smaller? It's HUGE, even at 1280x1024. I like it OK with just the "main" menu, a small clock and all the rest task bar. The panel can be used to replace the desktop icons of KDE but then I lose taskbar real estate. A second panel (You can do that, you know ;) ) solves that problem but them a major part of the screen is taken up. This is not a rant. I appreciate all the work that has gone into Gnome and look forward to seeing it's progress.
-Steve Bergman
I have been following gnome off and on up through the first "cow" release. 1.0 is really cleaned up. The annoying little bugs I noticed before are gone. With a little configuration, I even like "E", and I never expected to say that. If I were basing my decision solely on how I like the interface, I would stay with KDE, but although KDE is great and QT is pretty free now, I prefer to use gnome and GTK+. However, I won't put up with a lot of inconvenience on my desktop just for the sake of that. With this release, It looks good enough to me. For a newbie fresh out of windows, I'd suggest KDE. If his machine was low memory, I'd feel good suggesting Gnome. Thanks to everyone on both teams; the two desktops complement each other well and together are better for Linux than either alone.
It doesn't work when invoked intentionally. ;-)
-Steve
What KDE has in CVS and in beta is irrelevant. Neither KDE 1.0 or 1.1 use CORBA at all, and KOffice is unfit for human consumption as it stands.
4 years is a godforsaken eternity. Four years ago Linux couldn't run X, let alone a desktop. I think you are wrong anyway - one side or the other (probably Gnome, but whoe knows ?) will end up attracting more mindshare and making a better product. At that point the other will die.
since gnumeric 0.3 lots of things have changed.
Natureman
I have nothing useful to say, I just want to set a new record for posts on a news item and this thread was useless already. :)
Useless, useless noise.
It's fun, eh? Only fifty or so more to go...
More useless noise. Only EIGHT more posts to go. Or seven, now.
Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one, and most of them are on slashdot's discussion board.
We're in the home stretch now, kiddies! Five more posts after this one and the Iraq story gets pounded like... Iraq, actually.
Looks like it, doesn't it. Whatsamatter, people realizing that posting to a discussion with 743 posts already is wasted typing?
746
747 posts and counting
748 posts here, 748 posts there...
749 posts! We beat Iraq! I'm going to get a job as a soccer official.
I wouldn't call GEM 'swift' when running on a basic ST - but then, that's probably because I bought NVDI 4.11 (the software screen accelerator for those not in the know). A hyper-fast, hyper-compatible VDI replacement coded in assembler, complete with high quality and standardised printer,screen, bitmap and metafile drivers. The font rendering knocks spots off XFree86's - far faster, uses truetype and speedo fonts, and works throughout the system. X needs something like that.
Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?
and it beats out 'Linux 2.2 Released'
-- adraken
more comments.. MOOORE comments.. yea gnome sucks/kde sucks qt sucks... balh balhaaaha ahah
qt is nice sometimes...
-- adraken
keep on arguing... you know what?!?!? GUI'S SUCK ASS TOO!!! i MUST keep my TUI text user interface... all this WIMP shit (windows/icons/mouse/pointer) is dumb, lets stick with the console bitch!
-- adraken
mmmmmm!!! 1000!!!
-- adraken
we can MAKE It to 2000 comments :) 2kilo comments or 2 KiloComments :P
-- adraken
Stop Morons.
Stop Anonymous Corwards.
We at LSG actually use, sell, and support both GNOME and KDE. They are excellent and have come
a long way from their beginnings.
User interfaces are something that must also evolve accordingly and this is as good as any a time to announce a little project we have been working on at LSG.
We will soon be releasing to the LGPL a 3D interface that will be easy to write apps for and also easy to adapt IRED,touchscreens, and other neuro-muscular, or voice activated devices. The project, called VOOME (Virtual Object Oriented Manipulation Environment) was inspired by Dr. Stephen Hawkins and other users in need of an easier to use interface that would be more intuitive, and allow for the easy manipulations of work_objects from a large variety of the above said devices. This is not just for the physically challenged but will represent a break from the common taskbar/file manager/icons paradigm that has been prevalent throughout the industry.
We will be releasing the code and development API's soon and urge anyone interested in such a project to email us and they will receive access to the server.
Any ideas for the interface will be gladly accepted and openly discussed because that's the best way to write software, using the OSS model.
Anyway sorry for being somewhat off topic.
Cheers,
Nick
LSG
Truly antialiased fonts don't look blurred. Don't confuse Acrobat's "fuzzy" fonts with the real thing. Aliasing doesn't happen with perfectly vertical or horizontal lines (unless you have a weird staggered shadowmask or something), but acrobat blurs 'em anyway. Amazingly stupid.
I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
And I ask "what can I use this gnome thing for? I really wanna have something, cuz my son's scout troop's getting this whole event going on, lotsa rope tying and tent-pitching and stuff and we need some flyers to print out with some pictures. i just got this scanner thingamabob and this color inkjet printer, boy did that set me back. haven't got 'em out of the box yet, so can i just plug 'em in and drag some pictures around and make some flyers? oh yeah if i could mail 'em to some buddies on AOL that would be big, or maybe i should put 'em on that webspace that our internet hookup gives us. is there a program that'll lemme do that?"
I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
Then you will simply never achieve the world domination you want. You simply won't topple Microsoft, or even Apple for that matter.
You may prefer it that way. Personally I don't care either way, and neither does Joe Sixpack.
I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
libgtk.so.1 =>
bash$ldd
libgtk-1.1.so.14 =>
The fact that the sonmames are different means that the programs link without any problems. As far as the linker is concerned, the different gtk versions might as well be qt and gtk (-;
However, you probably shouldn't install both compile time libraries for gtk ( ie gtk-devel ) as these conflict. Of course, you don't need these installed unless you're compiling
--
Donovan Rebbechi
Like the other guy says, however, don't try to do concurrent installs of the different header files ( compile time libraries ) unless you know what you're doing
-- Donovan
--
Donovan Rebbechi
Until they installed CDE, Openlook was the default on the SPARC stations at my school. I figured it was part of a conspiracy to turn the students into unix haters.
...
I share your views on Openlook. When it's really dead, I will dance on its grave
-- Donovan
--
Donovan Rebbechi
The obvious answer to this is contained in your reply. A "window manager" is responsible for decorating and manipulating windows, nothing more. It seems much more efficient to keep it that way.
I start with the big green gnome-print, then it's something like :
settings/window manager
But when I get the window manager box up, nothing's there, and if I click it, it dies then restarts and there's still nothing.
Is there somewhere else I can go to pick a window manager other than Enlightenment?
I mean, it seems like a nice enough WM, but I've got time, energy and affection invested in Window Maker. I also depend on BlackBox for protracted GIMP sessions because of its small footprint. Enlightenment just isn't in the cards right now.
In general, there are chunks of this that are pretty nice. I'm speaking, by the way, as someone who's never coded anything more than some perl to catalog all the dirty words in the Starr Report. So, as a lowest-common-denominator, windows refugee kind of guy, I'm saying Gnome is pretty nice. It's purtier than KDE and wants less of my precious 32 mb. It doesn't thrash around as much, and feels more like I want it to feel.
There are bugs, but there's been worse than this out there in the past. If it kills the Gimp or Word Perfect out from under me, I'll hate its guts, but for now it seems ok. It'll only get better. It's one of the few projects where I'm tempted to break my usual silence and send bug reports, even if every other luser on the block is sending the same ones.
Anyhow... if someone can point me to where to get Window Maker back, I'll appreciate it.
----------
mphall@cstone.nospam.net
"Give me $20 worth of pudding, or kill me."
----------
mphall@cstone.nospam.net
"A horse laugh is worth a thousand syllogisms"
Debian 2.0 was and is stable as hell. 2.1 is stable and has more stuff to install.
But as far as stability is concerned, debian 2.0 was absolutely solid.
'Cause raster is a nut who really doesnt care about the people using it. This is in no way supposed to be derogatory. I just dont think raster designs E with a great desire to see people all over the world use it and live peacefully and prosper. He's just playing around with nifty features and challenging himself. That's one of the reasons I dont use E, it's not designed with a user in mind. You can use WindowMaker with gnome though. I personally use FVWM 1.0 - the sweetest wm to ever come out. It's small, fast, doesnt try to be some ultra-super-duper-cool-WM, and it's pager kicks E ass. E has some really nice features to it though. To each his own, this is why there are different wm-s.
-Laxative
A million monkeys jumping on a million keyboards for a million years will eventually create Shakespeare's Hamlet.
100 monkeys jumping on 100 keyboards for 20 days will produce the source code for Windows'95
Just wondering if now was the right time... I could see arguments for it, considering Linuxworld and all...
W
-------------------
-------------------
This is my SIG. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
well, one prob, im broak, i halfto get one of my friends to burn it to a cd :(
Hum. I've been using and developing (sorta ;)) on a P166 without problems. Now that I've very recently switched to a PII/450 with twice as much ram, and a much faster HDD, I really only notice the speed difference when I'm compiling stuff. Perhaps your problem is you're using Linux :)
The revolution will be mocked
I've been a big advocate of using Gnats which is developed by Cygnus, it's also integrated with emacs, and is powered on the user's end by shell scripts (or a WWW interface). If I had access to resources I probably would have set something up.
However, if you're not actually providing the machine on which to run your PyGtk program, then don't whine. And until you've had to sift through hundreds of nearly similar but all incomplete or just asinine bug reports don't complain that not many developers read them.
The revolution will be mocked
2). I always have, KDE is not nearly as stable as the KDE zealots make it out to be, and GNOME is not as unstable as the KDE zealots make it out to be.
Yeah you're one to talk. KDE has proved remarkably reliable for me, and I tend to use it quite a bit. When was the last time you tried KDE?
P.S. You're essentially the pot calling the kettle black. Once a zealot always a zealot, Keithy.
The revolution will be mocked
Uh neither KDE nor Gnome are WMs.
The revolution will be mocked
I'm speaking from the KDE perspective. I haven't really poked around much now that they're using DBTS, but the old BTS was HORRIBLE. Ugh.
;)
Perhaps it's just Gnome's elitest nature that you're encountering
The revolution will be mocked
... KDE. Big improvement.
And wait for 2.0 Qt based.. At the time when Gnome
guy finally get rid of all grave bugs it will be here.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
... All linux world will look silly..
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
... do not worry about language bindings - swing will match look and feel (including system colors) very well.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
...installation is a nightmare, and it just keep fucking crushing.
cleaned it up as good as i can, and returned to KDE 1.1...
I have nothing against Gnome. But the Gnome is far, far from 1.0. 0.45 I would say.
Developers should be ashamed of themselves.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
..gnome crashes worse than Win 98 anyway..
..It is a MS plot to descredit Linux..
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
looking better? It crashed on me in an hour more than my home Win 98 in a year..
And, yes, I know how to install things.
KDE 1.1 never crashed on me so far.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
I am running it (and have been for months)
Are you a moron? It is about so called 1.0 release. It is out for two days.
This "release" is about on par in quality with Windows 2.0. Only file manager is worse than that, otherwise - about the same in stability.
Yes, it used to work a bit better around 0.2 - 0.3 version.
The horrible hack of implementing UI in a non OO language IS doable, of course. But it will be crash prone. Hackers will be busy, user will suffer.
People just don't get that there is such thing as "fast enough" when dealing with human interaction, and the overhead for good OO structure is well worth it.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
It does not take much to see it crash. Even a single "cancel" crash should be debugged before this thing sees the light of the day.
It was all about publicity and LinuxWorld. Egomaniacs. Shame.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
in hof...
...that's a lot of comments....
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
i can do OO in assembly
Yes, you can. And that's what you deserve. And that's what will lead to crappy, buggy software releases.
Get a life, anonymous .
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
Yes I do. I was talking about that crashing crap that they call 1.0 release of Gnome. And about the reason it only aquired bugs in 0.99 series - inadequate language and toolkit for UI programming.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
... And it is not slow. I use it on P166, and
on PII450, and both just fine, thank you.
At the very least it does not crash and kill my work like Gnome just did this morning, when I tried this 1.0 thing. Gee, Windows 2.0 was more stable.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
You are a paranoid maniac. Go get some laxative, double dose, and stop spitting your stupid crap all over the internet.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
That would be just what we need. Objc based toolkit. Dreams.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
and come back in a couple of days...
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
...you stupid ugly bastard son of a shit worm.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
You are stupid and your mom is an ugly bitch.
How's that.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
Huh to yourself :)
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
NO FUCKING WAY
Let's make 1000 stupid lame comments.
Die, everybody. I hate you all.
Bastards, you killed poor gnome. Poor creature.
Eee.. Just had to boot NT to write a macro in Excel for my wife. Humanities are in the Office land. Firmly. No fucking chance they switch.
And buggy Gnome will not help.
Feeling icky...
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
... last time I have it like that with one of
KDE 1.1pre release.
I had a dosen windows, and was happily typing code in Emacs. When I switched to xterm on the
other desktop and it went crashing down. Bang.
I was pissed.
NT *never* did it to me like that.
Funny dead crashes after some next VS update - yes. Blue screens when looking at a page with some funny embedded stuff - yes. Never when typing text in an editor.
hate NT anyway.
What I REALLY hate in X though - exactly half of all text fields in various applications, when I hit Backspace, kill a character in front, while the other half kill it behind. I guess Tk and Motif derived stuff likes to kill in front.
Its OK either way - but I want CONSISTENCY.
It will never work with an average user (like I am - though I do administer my boxes, I use them - not hack them). It is too annoying.
We should get 1000 comments.
Bad day.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
..and the ones that were killing my machine all morning long.
Open windows, hit Cancel, hello core.
Drag a windows, hello console, good buy all my session.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
My theory is that most people don't give a flying fuck about this issue
Well, you theory is wrong. I am the most people; and I give a very high flying fuck about this issue. It is so fucking high you can't see it anymore.
Bad day. Bad.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
Now, isn't that better than being a mis-informed idiot?
Maybe, but you have not tried that. You are a misinformed idiot. See comments above for explanations.
:)
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
... no matter how awfully lame they are - that's the only chance.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
..
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
Just 19 more comments and we hit 1K.
1 kilocomment! Wow... Go bullshit, Go!
Just a little more - a good battle for a last comment will do it.
Ha-ha...
I dare you to post the very last comment.
Just do so.
It does not matter you have nothing to say.
We did it before.
We can do it again.
Blah, blah...
Eh.
Slow day.....
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
Long way? Like from typing Ctrl-Alt-Backspace to kill X, to X dying all by itself with this release?
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
That's it!
We will break 2KC when Microsoft is disbanded...
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
:)
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
Brokerig Requests? You are on drugs?
http://www.omg.org/corba/beginners.html
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
... I am obviously bored to death...
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
blah blah blah...
..slow day...
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
It bites.
CORBA, on the other hand is a cool computer technology.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
We will be happy.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
Lots of comments.
no text
-- d'arcy poirot
it's only ugly if you want it to be.
-- d'arcy poirot
I tried it...I like it! They can keep their jobs.*grin* Now I can switch back and forth between it and KDE and flame myself incessantly.
That's absurd. KDE uses as many libraries as GNOME, and it's not nearly as fully-featured -- it is just what happens when someone crosses OpenLook with Win98. :)
Why should the authors of GNOME re-invent the wheel? The authors of KDE were so bent on using C++ that they created software which violated the GPL, just because the libraries (Qt) were available.
That's ridiculous. The GNOME agenda is to provide a quality, customizable, completely open-source desktop project. KDE is not only inherently less customizable, it is less flexible because of their choice of c++.
haha! soon this will be the first /. article to break 1000 comments...
but KDE swallows.
Isn't it great when a GNOME or KDE story breaks? We can worry about flaming each other to death instead of the "first post" ludicrosity.
1015 is hardly "big" by any commercial DBMS standards. But then again, Slashdot is running on MySQL, which is about as useful as storing your data in a hash table.
wog
I am not impressed by the install procedure for
this thing. The depencecies had me going all over
the place looking for the rpm's.
Does anybody know where I can _download_ umb-scheme?
A search on deja-news has a lot of people just pointing at the RedHat CD. I don't have the CD here, is there a download somewhere.
(freshmeat doesn't have it, metalab(sunsite) I can't find it, redhat is s-l-o-w today)
I'll have to say, that compiling and installing KDE has been a lot easier than this. However, I'll reserve judment until I can run this thing (never have).
- sigs are for wimps.
You're completely right about setting a record. I wanted to be part of this historical event, and since I suck at code, I can at least add a totally useless comment.
I think that Gnome 1.0 can do 1.0 kind of things - Do you remember Microsoft Windows 1.0 ?
Even twm beats the crap out of that!!
Just a thought!
*--BigMan--- Time flies like an arrow.. but personally I prefer a nice glass of wine!
Now, granted, KDE 1.0 was a bit unstable.. I almost quit using it as a result.
Fortunately, my frustration came to a head just as 1.1 was released.. now KDE 1.1 seems to be fairly rock-solid.
your experience may differ.. but some "zealots" may be speaking the truth.
It was first announced on the front page of Dallas Morning News back on Monday.
;)! Go GNOME!
HURRAH annyway
IIRC kdesupport aren't "hacked-up versions." They are just supplied for convienence incase you don't have them.
-matt
What are you referring to? I use E full time, and have been for the last several months. I can't remember it ever crashing on me, it's quite fast (though admittedly I'm running it on a fast machine), and allows me to configure things exactly how I want them. I'm using the cyrus theme right now. It's very fast, very good looking, and very small. I've got the most screen-realestate that I've had in a long time. The only way that I could get more that I can see would be to run without anything sticky on the screen and use only menus and key-cording, but I don't like that.
Now, E is a little tricky to get working if you're not lucky. Under a default RH 5.2, i just grabbed all the rpms and it worked. Then you do e-conf, and have a real easy way to configure your E setup.
What about E sucks?
They laughed at Einstein. They laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. -- C. Sagan
Yes, what he pointed out was something of a flaw. As someone else pointed out, we take lessons to drive cars. Anyhow, the whole thing about Win* can't do it either is just a reality check. Linux can't wash my socks, but neither can anything else. It's just a matter of perspective. Complaining about real but understandable problems like they're tremendous problems that there's no excuse for is just silly. Linux can't survive very well on a broken CPU, but come one. Yes, it's theoretically possibly, at least slightly, but it's not very reasonable to complain about that flaw like someone forgot long filenames in a file system.
They laughed at Einstein. They laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. -- C. Sagan
Hey, I've still got the entire GEM + Artline installation disks, manuals, etc. Unfortunately, I don't have a 5.25" floppy drive to read them!!
Good to see someone else remembers the original Windows Alternative(tm).
MO!
I AM, therefore I THINK!
HMMM.............
"...Beer..."
Does it run with gtk 1.1 or 1.2?
and can I install gtk 1.2 on top of 1.0 and will all my programs that were compiled with 1.0 still work or do I need to recompile them all and update em?
please can some one email me some info on upgrading from gtk 1.0 to 1.2 as I know that 1.2 dropped some functinos from 1.0...
joeja@mindspring.com
I really want to try gnome but I need gtk 1.x first.... and need to make sure all my current apps work still too
Joe
Only 'flamers' flame!
Icon Directed Interactive Online Technology!
I can smell 1000 comments! Come on people!
Gee you really think this'll hit 1000 comments?
So, is it GEE NOAM or GUH NOAM?
Hitler uses KDE to track vegetarian abortion warez!
Me too!
Probably not.
Somebody did make a patch available on the main gnome mailing list, though it might never be intergrated.
I know I will be moderated down for this, but . . . Vincent
I tried that GMC "boom" thing, it didn't do anything weird. Is this bug just for debian.
I know I will be moderated down for this, but . . . Vincent
Im not saying this is impossible, though I am almost 100% sure you are lying, or not telling something odd about your system. Something believable like the session manager messed up, but it just crashed, come on. Maybe if you weren't an AC . . .
I know I will be moderated down for this, but . . . Vincent
Yes, what big ole bugs in gnome are you talking about.
I know I will be moderated down for this, but . . . Vincent
what about qt and mico.
by the way, gnome really only needs the gnome-libs, orbit, gtk/glib, imlib, esd (maybe one more). The rest is optional for running gnome apps.
I know I will be moderated down for this, but . . . Vincent
Tough.
Worked fine for me though, and probobly most other people. I find the crashing thing hard to believe. You mean the hole thing, and brought down X with it? Or was it something like gmc.
I know I will be moderated down for this, but . . . Vincent
Everyone with CVS commit access is on gnome-hackers (this being like 250 people at last count). The purposes of gnome-hackers was originally supposed to be just administrative stuff, and it is moving back to that purpose now that development discussion has moved to gnome-devel-list. So there is really no core team per se.
I've been waiting forecver on this. Promised myslef not to update gnome untill 1.0 and yes it's out. KDE watch out..this is FUD on KDE I like both...but prefer gnome!
Natas
http://www.mp3.com/pedophagia
Music made in Linux! Check us out and email the mp3.com people to make Linux a choice of OS'es that the music was made and encoded in!
Natas of
-=Pedophagia=-
http://www.mp3.com/pedophagia
Also Admin of
http://loki.linuxgames.com
Heheh just wanted to let you guys no :) Both can be set to hide. Actually the pager dosen't even come up on default panel settings. You have to add the applet pager to get it on the panel....so if your bitching about not being able to hide the pager....then why'd u put it there in the 1st place.
natas
http://www.mp3.com/pedophagia
Natas of
-=Pedophagia=-
http://www.mp3.com/pedophagia
Also Admin of
http://loki.linuxgames.com
Sure Gnome is not as far along in development, and as a result is probably not as stable (although I haven't tried it since 0.99.3), but the direction GNOME is heading in is incredible. It's far more configurable and has far more potential then the KDE model.
- --------
Mark my words, neither KDE nor GNOME are going away anytime soon. I just personally am a person with a taste for variety. KDE doesn't (at least yet) give me that configurability. I feel like I'm using Winblows all over again.
-Jamin P. Gray
-------------------------------------------
Jamin Philip Gray
jgray@writeme.com
http://students.cec.wustl.edu/~jpg2/
Celebrate the finer things in life
Downloaded the GNOME 1.0 RPMS (well, at least they were in a folder labeled 1.0...) followed the installation directions from the website EXACTLY, and I get failed dependancies.
Fuck it. I got no time to mess with this. KDE 1.1 installed in about 30 seconds, no problems. works great. I'll stick w/ KDE.
Seriously, if "regular" computer users are gonna use Linux, the whole install process has to be easy and actually WORK.
-geekd
Currently there are some GTK java bindings (they follow GTK widget heirachy rather than AWT), and someone working on Japhar said they were going to do GTK AWT port.
I don't think there are java bindings for either gnome-libs or kdelibs.
Well, I put my vote in for GNOME. Oh wait, I'm not supposed to vote in a flame war, am I?
:)
-- Duane
Huh?
I have no idea, but they have many differences. I don't know if comparing lines of code would tell you which is "better", or who is the "winner". It MIGHT be a ball-park figure, just to compare with other major components, like the kernel, or Window$, etc.
-- Duane
I have no idea, but they have many differences. I don't know if comparing lines of code would tell you which is "better", or who is the "winner". It MIGHT be a ball-park figure, just to compare with other major components, like the kernel, or other OS's like Window$, etc.
-- Duane
I have no idea, but they have many differences. I don't know if comparing lines of code would tell you which is "better", or who is the "winner". It MIGHT be a ball-park figure, just to compare with other major components, like the kernel, or other software like Window$, etc.
-- Duane
I think the idea behind gnome is great but ...
I hate the panel, its clunky, doesn't seem to give me anything I don't get in Windowmaker or Afterstep. And its so obviously MS derived it scares me. Am I missing something, can I kill the panel and get some worthwhile features out of gnome? I prefer just using Windowmaker or even kde. When's kde 2.0 coming.
actually I think both are. I just think gnome's is slightly more clunky. but either way I'm not fond of either.
Happens to me too, but I think it's a packaging problem. rpm seems to work fine on other stuff. Here is the list of gnome packages that give me this error:
ee-0.3.8-1.i386.rpm
imlib-1.9.4-1.i386.rpm
gnumeric-0.15-1.i386.rpm
libgtop-1.0.1-1.i386.rpm
gtk+-devel-1.2.0-1.i386.rpm
mc-4.5.23-1.i386.rpm
gtk-engines-0.5-1.i386.rpm
pygnome-1.0.0-1.i386.rpm
gtop-1.0.1-1.i386.rpm
pygtk-0.5.11-1.i386.rpm
guile-1.3-2.i386.rpm
xscreensaver-3.07-1.i386.rpm
guile-devel-1.3-2.i386.rpm
Anyone have a definitive answer? Is this a config issue or a packaging issue? Will these packages be re-released?
cheers,
keith
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? [Who guards the Guardians?]
It was probably HP-VUE (Visual User Environment). VUE and CDE look a lot alike -- it's quite evident that CDE owes a good chunk of its look-and-feel to VUE. I don't think HP had CDE that long ago (and if so, it probably wasn't commonly used).
I think this is an excellent point, and something I didn't think about when worrying over the last few days if GNOME was "ready enough". Hopefully it's beyond the point of having major embarrasing bugs, even if there are a few minor ones floating around.
----------
In a real emergency, we would have all fled in terror, and you would not have been notified.
I'm getting RPM errors that say:
/var/rpm... :(
/var/rpm, but things may have gotten screwed up by that time. Sigh.
free list corrupt (14736712)- contact support@redhat.com
Anyone else seeing this? I've tried installing the remaining packages, but I got it on a couple of them. I then uninstalled everything GNOME, then tried rpm -Uvh * again, and got the same error again, but in a different RPM. I think somehow RPM corrupted its database in
I sure hope this doesn't mean I have to reinstall my system if I want to keep using RPM... I've got recent backups of
----------
In a real emergency, we would have all fled in terror, and you would not have been notified.
You guys are beautiful. I did the --rebuilddb thing, and just in case made sure everything was uninstalled, then rpm -Uvh * worked like a charm.
:)
Thanks.
BTW, so far, no crashes.
----------
In a real emergency, we would have all fled in terror, and you would not have been notified.
I don't really "need" GNOME either; I've always been pretty happy with twm/fvwm2, three xterms and a huge Emacs window. Though some of the GNOME apps are neat, and the concept of running a "more advanced" and cooler looking desktop are also appealing, the bigger reason is that by trying out GNOME, I get to contribute to Linux by seeing how well it works, reporting bugs, etc. Besides, the mail check and slash app applets are cool. :)
----------
In a real emergency, we would have all fled in terror, and you would not have been notified.
Well, a lot of this depends on the hardware you're using. I don't believe that Linux has heavy support for TWAIN (the protocol used for scanners, digital cameras, etc), nor many of these devices at the driver level are supported. Best bet would be to write the creator of your hardware and demand a set of Linux drivers, then work on getting the TWAIN support you need, with a program, not unlike a situation in windows.
Rather than TWAIN, Linux has SANE (Scanner Access Now Easy). Try http://www.mostang.com/sane/ . Quite a few scanners are supported and it works as a plug-in for Gimp so that images pop up into a Gimp window for editing/printing/saving. There is some discussion at that site on the inadequacies of TWAIN. SANE supports sharing a scanner over a network which is not possible with TWAIN.
I have discovered a truly marvelous sig, unfortunately the sig limit is too small to contain i
Also known as "the maturity level on slashdot reaches new heights".
More likely if they get a bug report cc'd to 5 other people they'll assume one of the other people it was mailed to will get to it
Ditto to what xeno said
+
even if his argument weren't true, it says "experts TO end users" not "experts ARE end users"...
actually what the hell are you trying to say?
San Francisco values: compassion, tolerance, respect, intelligence
I've had trouble getting into ftp.gnome.org at 2am on Wednesdays. And NOW I get in? Hmm, there's nothing in the folder on the official website. What gives?
Hmm, now it's there and I'm getting 264k/s. This is very strange! An anti-slashdot effect!
They said the printing wouldn't be in 1.0
I'm putting the binary rpms (this doesn't violate the GPL, right? You know where to get the source) at ftp://fizgig.dorm.duke.edu/pub/GNOME I'm putting them there as a install/upgrade them, so they're not all there yet. I'll take them down if this kills my connection, but other than that it should be good.
Before I screw things up, how do I set the max number of users with ftpd that comes with redhat? It's being invoked through inetd.
They just lower the point value of your post. This gets explained every time it happens. If you have a post that has very little information and much complaining, it's going to get demoted. If you want to see it, set your threshold lower.
Done. here . Hope you don't mind the png file.
What? You mean the ones I got out of the GNOME-1.0 folder aren't real?!
The gtk+ rpm that was released does not contain gtk-config. This makes compiling things more than a little difficult! Perhaps someone should look into that.
The way I see it, both KDE and GNOME will continue to exist for about 4 years. At that point, people from both sides will decide that they need a new desktop environment. It will take elements from both and will be programmed by programmers from both teams. They will have to create a new toolkit (QT is limited, and some people don't like GTK; besides, they'll be lots more to add in 4 years). Then there will be a standard desktop.
It looks like it's in gtk+-devel, but when I install it, gtk-config --version still gives 1.1.13
I believe that GNOME is trying to follow the FSF philosophy of LGPLing things for which there are many or a common non-free alternative(s), and using the GPL where this isn't the case.
Unless they changed the licensing since the last 0.99.x release, the libraries are under the LGPL and the applications are under the GPL. GNOME developers have always maintained that the core components of the system needed to *build* applications should be under the LGPL. This gives them the copyleft protection w/o scaring away potential GNOME application developers.
- Dauphin
There is no guarantee that they will not change the license. If all of the copyright holders agree to the change, it's pretty much a done deal.
Also, the LGPL has a clause that allows anyone to take a LGPL program, change the notices to GPL and redistribute it under the terms of the GPL. Essentially, they'd be making a fork at the point and any derivatives of that fork will be under the GPL not the LGPL.
I concur. I installed KDE a while back, and still have it, but I decided to go back to FVWM 1.0 after a few days of it. KDE looks nice, but on a 486 - which I use - it sends the load avg. up to 4 before I even see the desktop on logging in. And GNOME required too much stuff that I didn't want to bother getting, so I never tried it.
FVWM is quick and no-nonsense, even if it is a bit ugly.
--
Yeah, it *is* ugly. But I prefer function (and speed) over flash. Each to his own.
I wouldn't recommend FVWM 1.0 for a newbie, though. I'm just used to it after using it for two years.
--
I hope Gnome will one day have features KDE doesn't have. That way KDE can copy from Gnome as well....I hope Gnome will one day have features KDE doesn't have. That way KDE can copy from Gnome as well....
Yeah, I can hardly wait to see KDE copy a feature from gnome. I was really happy when I saw that Gnome would have themes just like KDE always has. Oh wait, we're still waiting for vaporware QT2.0 and the new license. Fool.
OK forst things first. If developers make a release they know to be buggy, but so that people can test it and point those bugs out it is not called 1.0 it is called pre or beta. In my opinion the GNOME people have made it 1.0 too soon, I would say that this one should have been 1.0pre2 and there is still a good amount of things to be fixed to get a pre3 and pre4. Now when KDE 1.0 came out it was up to 1.0pre2 and pre2 at least had all the things that were supposed to work working and all the things that were not supposed to work removed. Let's take a look at Gnome 1.0 ( RPM install on a RH 5.2 system ). Gnome control center crashes each time I click on it too fast. Window manager tab doesn't work, Gnome edit properties only has one stupid drop box ( they could stick it somewhere else if that is all that is supposed to be there ) and a few more glitches like those annoying background conflicts between Gnome background and Enlightenment background. File manager just plain doesn't work, it is more like an alpha, not a production release. It freezes after any file operation, crashes if I try to switch directories too fast ( restarts though ) doesn't remember my preferences doesn't have enough options to customize it's behavior ( less than KDE now isn't that something ). Some other programs. GTOP crashes if you try to make it show something besides process list ( memory or FSs ). Enlightenment crashes without any aparent reason or when file manager is restarted too frequently. What else? A lot of things I guess, but I didn't have enough patience to play with them all. And by the way, it leaks memory so bad that after a few minutes it takes more memory then a fully blown KDE 1.1 session with Netscape and StarOffice 5.0 running together. I have been stupid enough to run my first session without logging out of root and I had to reboot my machine cause it took all the swap and all the memory an I couldn't even telnet into it cause it would time out waiting for telnetd to start.
Talk to me about usability.
Everybody Lies. But it doesn't matter since nobody listens.
1.0 is NOT supposed to be a development release. Still it uses a version of GTK+ that breaks half dependencies on my RH 5.2 system.
P.S. Oh yeah I forgot to mention that it also doesn't work
Everybody Lies. But it doesn't matter since nobody listens.
If the software doesn't work without recompilation it is not a production quality software, it is at best a beta release.
Everybody Lies. But it doesn't matter since nobody listens.
These actions can be performed on the horizontal or vertical axis or both!
1.0 components cores all over the shop. This is from the RedHat RPMS with a clean and patched RH5.2.
Seems to a common problem with Linux software of late - it's rushed to make golden 1.0 and is still beta quality. Still, it's damn cool so I'll stick with it for the time being, as long as prolonged use doesn't drive me mad.
have you ever wrote a decent panel before?
>
I think he ment first to get it...hence the referance to the ftp site. personally i couldn't care less...
Does KDE require a specific wm? If so I think it will lose because the default KDE wm is just plain ugly. In my opinion even redhat 5.1 std. fvwm2 Anotherlevel is more attractive.
I like window maker a lot and I'm just plain happy that it's supposed to work well with gnome. I hope I get around to installing gnome one of these days, but I fear we'll see rh60 before!
What is so hard about installing Gnome? I
downloaded it last night, su'd to root,
and typed rpm -Uvh *.rpm. A few minutes later,
I was in X, with a perfectly functioning
Gnome session.
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man -Jebediah Springfield (a.k.a. Hans Sprungfeld)
Autohide is a relatively little known feature of the win9x taskbar, which makes it sort dissapear when the mouse pointer isn't at the bottom of the screen. When it is in dissapear mode there is a line of like two pixels where the taskbar would be, and when you move mouse over that area the taskbar pops up over applications in front view so you can use it. Very intuitive and gives me, when I use win9x, that is, another 15 in^2 over the regular (non-hiding) taskbar.
My question is, why isn't this elegant and wonderful design coppied by the KDE or prefferably GNOME camps? I would totally dig a panel that was invisible until I needed it, and then it was right there. And don't tell me that it can slide into a corner, I already know that. The problem with that is that you have to click a bunch to get it to do that -- once for in and once later for out. A good deal worse than no clicks, eh?
I stand corrected. Thanks.
Woo hoo, with GNOME released that means Red Hat 6.0 might be out within a month and a half.
It's going to be a wild year, folks!
I've been very impressed with how E has been running for me. Occassionally I come across a bug, normally something to do with focus and will have to restart, but haven't had a crash in quite a while. It's gotten much better since DR 14, and with gnome 0.99.x I've been really happy running it as my full-time desktop.
It was first announced on the front page of Dallas Morning News back on Monday
I read that they were going to release GNOME 1.0 on Wednesday through the San Jose Mercury News's Silicon Valley Life section on Sunday. Probably still have the article.
Maybe they did an upgrade to their server/'bandwidth in anticpation...
:-)
...or maybe not.
--
- Sean
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think I just crossed it.
- Sean
Funny thing, because you're not logged in as Matts!
--
- Sean
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think I just crossed it.
- Sean
Huh.
That musta been one hell of a 5.25" floppy...
Last I saw, Win1.0 was 3+ megs.
--
- Sean
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think I just crossed it.
- Sean
So often when someone brings up a serious issue like this, people such as yourself just say "well, you can't do it in Windows, either."
So what?
Avoiding criticism by passing the buck is not a solution. We don't want Linux to be "as good as" Windows, we want it to be better. And that isn't going to happen as long as we keep on responding by insisting that Windows can't do it either.
Instead of saying "Windows can't", we should be saying "Linux can!".
I'll admit I don't have many answers to this, but I'm not going to duck the issue by saying "well... Joe Sixpack couldn't set up a printer and scanner easily under Windows either."
Given a choice between two routes, neither of which offer exactly what he wants, I'm pretty sure our hypothetical Joe Sixpack would feel more comfortable going brand-name.
Besides which, I don't think the poster meant this to apply specifically to scanners and printers. He meant to ask (I think) if GNOME can be easily used to accomplish any standard, real-world, "Joe Sixpack" problems.
So I'll re-pose the original question:
"Can GNOME be used by an end-user to easily get his tasks done?"
And now me. If not, then why not? And what has to be done before he can? How long will it take? More importantly, why is this called a 1.0 release, if it can't be used to do 1.0-type tasks?
Now maybe I'm misguided. I haven't used 1.0 yet, and I'll admit I haven't used GNOME at all (well... not since very early versions). It's possible that 1.0 is capable of all this, and my point is moot. I will check it out to see.
But please don't avoid the issue like most people here tend to do.
--
- Sean
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think I just crossed it.
- Sean
>Have SEVERAL of them on different edges and corners of your screen? Common..
What's so common about it?
Seriously, though... the phrase you're grepping for there is "come on".
Please do not display your l33tn3zZ for others to see, as it will only
bring you flames and shame.
--Corey, who's sick to death of seeing 'common' used to mean 'come on'.
Not only will they not deserve liberty or safety, Mr. Franklin, they will be DENIED both!
Which is better if I want to program in java, gnome or Kde?
FVWM is the most butt ugly thing on a desktop I have ever seen. If my dog looked like that I'd shave his butt and teach him to walk backwards. The fact of the matter is that Linux needs some window dressing to attract users. Gnome is a valid effort along those lines.
Themes, configurable GUI's, heaps of different widgets.
For Amiga software it is huge and slow and bloated - compared to GTK (or anythign comparable anywhere else) its incredibly memory-efficient and fast!
Oh it had another thing - *COMPLETELY* transparent backward compatability, and upgrading any widget was as simple as copying in a new file (never any problems with binary compatability because of the way it worked). Also, a widget's code only ever loaded once - in the whole system. Now thats whay I call a shared library
Did I mention it was fully multi-hreaded and thread-safe? It could launch new threads on demand to render difficult widgets concurrently (at least the native BOOPSI could, on which MUI was based).
Corba? Well AmigaOS has these really neat things called message ports which are very memory efficient (~60 bytes each), incredibly fast (no copying of data, no memory allocations), and absolutely reliable (the OS uses them for everything).
Yes - GTK/Gnome has a ways to go, but is still way ahead of the competition - which is why i'm helping it along.
__// `Thinking is an exercise to which all too few brains
_
\\/ are accustomed' - First Lensman
Just on time! Great to see this long-awaited release out the door. Have a nice one over at Linux World!
This is cool shmool! GTK/GLIB 1.2, GNOME 1.0, now I just can't wait for E 0.15 to hit. All the base architecture is now completely updated.
GNOME is supposed to be WM indepentant and it is. But there are is a spec sheet (forget whwere) for Window managers to take advantage of GNOME if present.
-- DuckWing
I'm headed to FTP now! :)
Good luck getting it.
I spent a few months compiling gnome
regularly, and I finally decided to just
go with the RPMs, since they're being maintained
fairly well now, and I was sick of having to
delete old versions of everything. For a
project as large as gnome, it's nice to have
something to manage it so you don't
have to keep up with the tiring pace of development just to figure out how to upgrade!
Not all the programmers work for free. :)
I actually have a friend in the group
coding Gnome, and I can't believe he gets
paid for this.
But thanks to everyone. The guys at RHLabs,
as well as the hundreds of coders really
working for free to bring a kick-ass product
to the linux desktop!
I'm sick of bitching like this.
.10, both through
The only people I know who have these
problems are people who have messed up their
own distros by trying to force installs,
or hack things so they work. So if you
don't understand the way your own system
is set up, stop posting Slashdot about it,
and go learn!
Gnome has been installing and upgrading fine
for me since version
source first, and now RPMs.
as of this post, we only need 9 more to hit the top 10. C'mon everyone...more inane posts like this one, and we'll make it easily! ;-)
I got the message too, and first emailed support@redhat.com as instructed, only to discover (no big surprise here tho) that it's for paying customers... I think this is kinda evil, given that the error has a simple (but undocumented) fix. It really reminds me of Oracle: "orainst has encountered a fatal error. Please contact Oracle global support."
Now it's installed and I can't say I'm impressed.. It seems worse than 99.8 and has already crashed twice and eaten my panel config.
"...Is this world not a call I can screen out" --
- Penguin Toy does not crash or maim my e.
- Penguin Toy is really annoying.
:-) (Where's the elephant toy?) - I can replicate the "Window Managers" section coredump.
:-( - I still can't set XEmacs as my default editor in Gnome Edit Properties.
- Gmc isn't crashing on me, but seems to be, um, suboptimal.
- The way I have things configured now, some keyboard shortcuts don't seem to be working correctly.
:-(
Everything else seems to be okay, so far. I'd be happier if everything were perfect, but I've found no show-stoppers yet. They do need to work on getting more documentation in place; help gives you nothing too much of the time. Installation went smoothly for me after I fixed rpm's "free list corrupt" problem by doing an rpm --rebuilddb.Gnomophiles will probably like this enough to upgrade now, while others might want to wait a few days for some more kinks to be ironed out.
King Babar
Babar
I just clicked on the Gnome Help Browser from the pane. It appears to work, but on start-up, two Gtk-CRITICAL errors popped up in a console box.
I'd have to say that parts of this release do seem to be lightly tested. I think its bad karma when the help system pumps out debugging output. :-(
King Babar
Babar
I agree and I've stated it before...
Why do some people here belive Linux is only for the initiated few?
Keep up the good work Mathew.
Never by hatred has hatred been appeased, only by kindness - the Buddha
Dude.. Apparently 99% of the people who use computers in the real world "point and drool". So I'm guessing all YOU really want is to keep Linux as your own secret club, to keep out kids, grammas and clerks so you can look down your nose at people because they don't know what "chmod" means, or the difference between $ and %. MS Windows may be unstable and crappy but it got popular because its relatively easy to use by most people (including programmers) - and everyone, even you, can use it after a very short time. Linux is much better than Windows and deserves to be used by everybody some day. But until techno snobs like you get over the "I-can-use-a-command-line-I'm-better-than-you" attitude Linux is gonna remain some little backwater OS used by thunder geeks late into the night while Uncle Bill makes another $1 Billion because everyone will buy Win2000 (Win 95 takes 20 minutes to install and I can watch TV and drink a coffee while its doing it, and I can be surfing the net(or playing Quake) 10 minutes after that...How long does Linux currently take? How long will it take if my sister the hairdresser tries to do it?)
Do you smell an Amiga OS? Must be my imagination...
Maybe Linux won't be "cool" if everyone can use it.
Grow Up.
Never by hatred has hatred been appeased, only by kindness - the Buddha
Duh, C++ has been standardized since Novembber of 97 by ANSI. The difference between pre-ANSI C++ and ANSI Standard C++ is night and day. Obviously you haven't tried it for a while if you don't know this, so I'll be nice. As for you OO comments, I won't dignify that with a response...
Okay I will - You're a Moron!
If you program C++ properly, with Smart pointers (see any Design Patterns site or book) and good MVC design, you can have a good quality product with much better memory management (Now don't tell me you NEVER fogotten to free() a malloc()?) and a very small footprint (nothin' like lean mean code!).
Now, what was that you were saying about being a mis-informed idiot?
Never by hatred has hatred been appeased, only by kindness - the Buddha
Enough bickering...Lets work on this! UI ideas that break out of the "Window" box in more ways than one. If this can make Linux/other OSes easy for the physically challenged to use, then that's all the niche market I need to work on(Sorry Bill, I don't like your Ad!)
Thanks for dropping a little ray of reality in here Nick...do I feel stoopid.
Never by hatred has hatred been appeased, only by kindness - the Buddha
I have no problem with malloc() and free(), that's not what I was getting at. I'm talking about a coding "style" in which new and delete (or malloc()or free()) are wrapped in a class (or struct I suppose) where the allocation is done automatically by the constructor and deallocation is done by an object's destructor. You can then treat objects requiring dynamic allocation as local objects whose memory is automatically returned to the heap when they go out of scope.
I actually agree with you that bad programmers cause memory leaks, mostly because the "forget" to delete a pointer (that was my point). This is just one of many TECHNIQUES that can be employed by programmers to make it easier to eliminate memory leaks. It has nothing to do with how malloc() and free() are implimented, only how they are used by the programmer. Couple some of these techniques with some good exception handling (to catch and deal with those "bad_alloc" errors) and you can write some pretty lean and efficient code.
Hell, I can write good code using this style (and the the good old Model-View-Controler pattern) for MS Windows (that's how I earn money to feed my kid). Imagine what it can do on a really good platform....
I was simply pointing out that most of AC's "facts" were not that at all. This is not a "C++ is better than C" post, I use them both (I do like C++ better, admittedly). I simply like people who spout off to atleast know what they are talking about (C is an OO language indeed!!)
So:
(1) yes I am using Windows at the moment (at work) but that really doesn't mean anything in THIS particular argument
(2)I do know how to use them, thank you very much (and I've been doing it for a few years now)
(3)I've never had a problem with my compiler
Never by hatred has hatred been appeased, only by kindness - the Buddha
I have some thoughts about the Red Hat (SuSE, Caldera ... ) way to make money. What had RedHat Inc. been without the thousands of volunteer programmers???
- -
That I'm trying to say is that free software and capitalism isn't a great combination. (This is a purely economic question, personally I agree to 100% that free software is the best method to develop software technology).
-----------------------------------------------
A hypothetic question: If the propetiary software software business dies, who will then finance the programmers, so they can buy their food, their Coca Cola, and thier computers, on which they are programming their free software ???
-----------------------------------------------
The only way to earn money (with the GPL license) is to sell support. And how many companies will buy support? Many will probably use company internal knowledge to solve their problems. And what about private persons?
Any suggestions?
"But do busineses have social consciences? That's the question."
Why would they? Business is business, not charity. Why would companies donate money for software, which their competitor can use for free? Of course you have the support thing, but...
That's the sad reality. Capitalism isn't the most efficent way to develop technology.
(Don't call me a supporter of the government type, which was used in Soviet Union. Technology was certainly not free for everyone there...)
End-user market small??? Where have you heard it?
"rpm --rebuilddb" fixed the problem for me too.
It's amazing how fast Gnome has progressed in the last few months. I'm finding glitches here and there in the 1.0.0-1 series rpms, but so far it seems stable and usable.
So I decided to install gnome and let me tell you, .1. In fact, it should be called gnome .1.
the panel core dumps, complains with GDK Warning message on the console etc, atleast (quite honestly) and the control panels can hardly even be ran without crashing! It is absolutely no more stable than gnome
Redhat: Get a fucking clue and stop trying to push software that is not ready down our throats!
Chris Knight
The ignorance of *your* flame is amazing. I simply can not accept the fact that gnome is crashing because I have the incorrect libs installed. I installed the exact libraries that gnome documents said to install. In fact, old libraries of gnome are not causing conflicts, I never installed gnome before. Now, learn how to use your shift key and correct capatilization or go to hell.
Respectfully,
Chris Knight
Read my reply to the previous thread. Gnome is simply not release quality. When you slap '1.0' on a product, it's expected not to crash *often*. The Gimp 1.0 hardly ever crashes for me (if ever). However, Gnome can be forced to crash by simply running the panel!
Insane Bug Fix Mode my ass. I can force gnome 1.0 to crash in many ways.
I especially agree with Number 3
The Gnome developers continuously seem unwelcome to integrating their changes into GTK.
POP! Goes the core dump!! :)... heh.. what a crappy release. Thanks GNOME! KDE couldn't have gotten better advertisement if they paid for it.
Having been a C++ zealot in a previous life I am compelled to ask how Donald Knuth could have discovered all that useful stuff way back when. You do not suppose he may have dirtied his hands with Fortran or Assembler do you?
Good and useful programs can be created for KDE and for GNOME. If we have to suffer competition between these desktops, let it be a competition of how many programs, how useful they can be and how cleverly they are designed. Who really cares if they are coded on punch cards or even patch cable cards. KDE has some cool features and GNOME has some cool features. Both teams deserve plenty of credit for what they have brought to Free Software. Both desktops will undoubtedly be better for having the other to measure their progress against. Bashing Free Software efforts is an exercize for those who would restrict our freedom as programmers (M$ Moles?).
Programming language dogma quit being a measure of SW fluency about the same time that vacuuming the lint out of core quit being a recurring requirement - unfortunately somebody forgot to inform the neo cyber zealots. Get a life guys - write some free software!
(Not directed at any msg in particular but the seediness of the thread in general)
I've got a good idea.
Why not try and make to 2000 RELAVANT comments.
This would indeed be a novelty. I suspect the 'last post' comments will get deleted by Rob anyway.
My view on GNOME: it has potential but version 1.0 was released too soon.
Cool Linux PC Badges!
Agreed 100%.
.so that had the
:-)
I had some problems due to the now-famous RedHat
compiled lib problem, which I kludged by setting
LD_PRELOAD to an (unrelated)
symbol I ws looking for. This from a Linux newbie.
But then I saw the Gnome/Enlightement desktop. I
played with it. I tweaked it. I themed it. And
it was good.
To anyone slamming their head against a problem
trying to install Gnome: keep slamming. A very
Cool Thing will reward your efforts, and you will
have increased your own knowledge.
Part of the Second American Revolution!
Anyone know what this means:o me-1.0/debian/README
:D
"Coming RSN!"
I saw it in ftp://ftp.circ.us.eu.org/mirrors/ftp.gnome.org/gn
maybe some clue as to when the debs will be out?
the rpm are already here!!
i can't wait...
-- four
Motif sucks, lesstif sucks but the hackers that made lesstif rocks!
How to contact me - http://www.pervalidus.net/contact.html
So, i just installed Gnome 1.0.1 from CVS. I will wait a mounth or more until i compile this stuff again. But i need to know why they removed the Gnome 1.0 "pre" from the main ftp site. It was a joke??? And i think it's not very stable to release it 1.0 (i'm getting various GTK-CRITICAL ...). KDE or Gnome? Use both.
How to contact me - http://www.pervalidus.net/contact.html
icewm (the most stable wm out there) is the best wm to run with Gnome. I can't wait until Marko Macek release a new version. But don't use gnome-session if you don't want your X fucked up sometimes. panel is great.
How to contact me - http://www.pervalidus.net/contact.html
icewm had some problems with i18n in the latest versions (compiling). Why not icewm 1.0? It's very stable but not perfect (nothing is). And now that Gnome 1.0 is out...
How to contact me - http://www.pervalidus.net/contact.html
Yes, it's a session manager. But if anything of Gnome crash, X crash. I prefer starting icewm and panel.
How to contact me - http://www.pervalidus.net/contact.html
The GNOME panel is awesome...definitely the best panel I've ever used. It's pretty, it's configurable, and with the 1.0 release it's fast too....awww yeah. No more KDE for me.
quit bitching and compile from the sources...that's what I did and it works great. I tried the RPMs first but they only fscked things up.
Ummm, if you're grabbing the source, you're compiling, not recompiling. I didn't have to build it more than once. The RPMs *do* work on some systems, just not all of them, which is most likely the cause of having a previous hybrid GNOME install. I haven't heard anybody complain about the DEBs yet.
hmmm, funny. GNOME's panel starts right up for me, just as fast as KPanel. GNOME's panel has just as much functionality as KDE's as far as I can see. You can DnD (which works very well...I don't know what you're talking about), swallow apps, and add applets. Plus it has "drawers" and you can configure it pretty nicely.
What kind of file manager integration does KPanel offer that GNOME's panel should add?
Simply choose the one you like better and that's it. Perhaps you can even debate the reasons for your choice to share some thoughts with others.
** Don't force others to follow your choice, if that's the only reason. **
Whether it should be KDE, Gnome etc. is a matter of taste, taste is personal and, thus, can not be argued upon.
Personally, I like Gnome + simple E better than KDE. I still install KDE at users, that don't want to fiddle to much with their desktop.
I think the Gnome combo is more elegant and more "crispy" than KDE.
As with any other OSS/GPL'ed piece of software, you're free to do whatever you prefer.
Argueing upon this matter will just make a fool out of yourself. This is bad for the Community and everyone will loose a bit.
Best regards,
Steen
Yes, it's true guys - 1.0 is finally released!
Don't blame us - we were really working very hard during the last months and weeks to make you that release the best it could ever be - and most of us spent a large amount of their spare time into that release.
Just keep in mind that Free Software lives from volunteers!
We've done our best - and we're very excited about it.
For now, it's party time.
Happy Gnomeing,
Martin
It has. A lot of work has been done since 0.99.3, ...
bugs were fixed, new documentation was added,
Of cause, it's not yet perfect - but now that
we're having a stabilazed API we can concentrate
on the help system and on writing documentation.
Maybe it was a bit premature, maybe ..
...
...
At least for me, 1.0 means that the core components like gnome-libs have reached their
prime time. They have a stable and clean API
that won't change very much in near future.
This is an important issue for application programmers, 1.0 signals them that they can
write applications that use that API without
worrying that their Apps may get broken due to
API changes,
Another issue is that people will prefer writing
documentation about code that does not change
every few weeks.
Releasing Gnome as 1.0 means that people can actually start using it and develop any cool
applications they like with it.
Of cause it has bugs - every new software product has them, but you can start writing any cool
applications you want right now
So since it's already late at night, I'd say
happy Gnomeing,
Martin