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Debian 2.1 'Slink' Release Postponed
Anonymous Coward writes "Slink's release has been delayed one week due to a problem with dpkg. Dpkg can fail when the locale is set to a non-default setting. Here's the news release. " Those nice guys over at Debian are actually right next to us in Boothland. Anyway, they're saying that they just want to be sure about upgrading, and working with folks with laptops. Alright, all of you who keep e-mailing me-I know this was annouced before. But I figured we'd do something for the Debian guys, and assure everyone it's not a big deal, and the reasons.
Kill all 1 comment lusers.
Death to all fanatics.
...when my RedHat install works?
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
It's actually nice to see an OS *not* being rushed
to "market" full of bugs...
uh, are you like, mentally deficient? that was announced what...yesterday? 2 days ago? i'm tellin' ya, some people...
I hate it being delaed...but thats good that the Debian people will delay a project over a small bug. Unlike M$ they will release it when its done. M$ will release anything just to get $ no matter how FU#*ed up it is! Good job DEBIAN group!
Natas
Natas of
-=Pedophagia=-
http://www.mp3.com/pedophagia
Also Admin of
http://loki.linuxgames.com
didn't they put it back a couple of days ago?
whats wrong now?????
Because Debian is as pure as the wind driven snow. Anyone who uses anything else is just, well EVIL.
I've been having various problems mostly due to required libraries for rpm installs, programs that won't work worth a darn, rpms that don't find libraries that I in fact do have, in both RedHat and SuSE. I end up having to --force every rpm to install, and then things get really messed up. I can't back out of an install because it breaks the compatibility of many other programs linked to it and in the end everything becomes a huge, blurred, irrevicably damaged mess of links and duplicate files and so on and the RPM database is rendered useless.
Is Debian's packager better in these respect?
that's what I thought.
got too pissed at rpm & redhat's wierd way of installing things.
(where's xdm?)
i know they have thier reasons, but it's just a matter of taste, really.
Somebody get our flag back!
Yes. Debian's package manager doesn't generally require you to force installs (I don't even remember the command to do it, and I've been using Debian for a year now!)
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
Hey, maybe you should read the rest of the comments. Or else the actual comments from the Debain guys don't matter..
I hope so, because that's the primary reason I'm trying it out. The fact that it's easy to separate free from non-free software also appeals.
I'm also encouraged to see this release put back: remember Red Hat 5.1? I certainly remember the bloody thing.
--
W.A.S.T.E.
W.A.S.T.E.
Thanks for taking the time to repost this story instead of using it profitably to write a URL checker.
Now THAT'S efficiency!
In my experience, yes, the debian package system is capable of dealing with these issues. Dselect (the front end for dpkg) takes a little getting use to, but is good at guiding you along the path to resolved dependancy issues. And it has allowed me to fix almost every stupid mistake I've made...
Just because a beta version of Debian has a broken install that is being fixed before release, you judge Debian. Right. You know, if you use Solaris or something else propriatary, you won't have to hear about beta versions, or be threatened by the concept that they might be out there.
Posted by F.A.N.G.:
dpkg is to rpm as a rolls royce is to a ford pinto.
I have used both, and dpkg's are much more configurable. they rarely (if ever)need to be forced, and WILL NOT conflict with installed packages. The package install will also tell you what other packages you need to install.
deb's rule.
rpm's rot.
C00l 1nst4ll 1s n0t 3n0ugh...
Read www.insecure.org and make some quick statistics. See why Slackware is still the number 1 active installaction and Debian is no 2.
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
Debian GNU/Linux, the peoples Linux distro!
You just got to love it.
You mean like Red Hat ;)
I must also say that I cannot fathom (for even a second) why some people badmouth Debian and spout RedHat slogans --sounds like M$4EVER to me. It's just as vulgar and idiotic. It's probably true that some of this comes straight from Redmond, WA. And I'll allow that some Debian advocates sound whiny and bitter, too; but this is no justification for "attitude" from people using RH. I use RH at present --I bought the line that it was easiest for a newbie to install and I have been happy with it-- and I wish RH all the best, but not at the expence of Linux as a whole and not at the expence of Linux as a movement towards a new openess and evolution in the IT industry and the empowerment of users. (sorry to use the "e" word --couldn't think of a good synonym) I give them all credit for releasing all their own stuff under the GPL, but nevertheless: this movement cannot be tied to the fortunes of one company, even if their fortunes are skyrocketting just now.
--NakedMoleRat
Even Debian's dpkg/dselect combo has problems. It is currently being replaced by apt. The only apt product out right now is apt-get which currently acts like a frosty coating to dpkg, but a really nice one that will go ahead and install any other packages that you'll need to install first.
gnome-apt (an gnome frontend to apt) looks really nice, and once its stable will be a nice replacement for dselect (in X anyways).
I'm using debian for two months and encounter the
same problems with libraries.
Finally, I fed up and move back to Slackware style of
compiling programs myself.
Slackware is still the easiest to use in my experience.
Sorta. It does automatically install depended-on packages, so you don't have to worry about finding all of the libraries for a particular program. Relatedly, it uninstalls apps when libraries they depend on are uninstalled. So you won't end up with broken apps.
They haven't (yet) solved the problem of programs and libraries that were installed from source (i.e., not using dpkg). So it may not recognize libraries that you compiled yourself. The dpkg people hint that they're working on this.
On the other hand, because of the open development, I have yet to find a library that wasn't packaged already. So, at least in my experience, the problem isn't that bad.
Congratulations Debian.
;-)
I was starting to get warried about Linux after the latest/lamest Redmond style R00tH4t releases.
They were almost as secure and stable as NT
(non-believers - read CERT advisories, rootshell and insecure.org).
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
Three reasons:
1) Done by a co-operative group of volunteers which is closer to the 'Free Software' concept that a commercial enterprise. It's also an endeavour you can participate in - actually being part of forming the distrib you will use. It feels more like being part of a community.
2) Advanced features and standards compliance. Personally I use Debian because I don't have time to deal with the plethora of RPM's or to manually update everything. The automatic updating (run one command) and the upgrading to a new release (run two commands) is absolutely outstanding. Package management is always hard, but I think Debian has managed the line of control/power and ease-of-use: I've no problem in saying they outstrip the other distribs in this, particularly as their solution has a lot of maturity. The other portion is standards compliance. One of the problems I have had with other distribs is that when you read the standard HOWTO's and Unix books none of the files/systems are right - that's because the distribs 'configure' things for their ease-of-use scripts. So Debian allows me to actually get at a system which is similair to other Unix's. I take that choice, the loss is that there are not as many distrib specific enhancements ie RedHats 'Control Panel' - OTOH there are lots of visual answers for these problems amongst the wide array of Linux apps.
3) Rock solid and secure. As we can see Debian isn't released until it is ready. It really is a very solid distribution, which is what I need: I'd rather be doing things than trying to work out why program X won't work. Some people find Debian's release calender a bit slow but you can get round this by mixing distribs - I do this for Enlightenment. All the distribs are equal in security matters, in the past I have had problems getting to RH's update site. Debian's automatic updating means that this is taken care for me - I don't have to even go to the security page if I don't want to. Ironically I find Debian easier to use than commercial distribs - definitely breaking peoples preconceptions!
There you have it - hope it explains one set of reasons
blah
I have been very pleased with the speed that RedHat brings security upgrades out. Their speed responding to security holes is on par with Debian's.
If one is to run a system that is current WRT securty, RedHat and Debian are the best bets.
The secret to enjoying Slashdot is to realize that it should not be taken too seriously.
Debian was my first Linux OS - a little over a year ago. Since then, I've had to 'force' dpkg exactly one time (because of a circular dependency on a perl package I think), and that was during an upgrade to 2.0 (hamm) before 2.0 was 'officially' released.
/.) And everyone knows about RH.
Since then, I have tried RH 5.0, RH 5.1 and SuSE 5.2 distros. RH and SuSE are not without appeal.
SuSE is a verrry nice distro (one that goes mostly unnoticed on
But, in my experience, the better package manager is Debian's.
OK, I'll guess that you ran into problems either by installing stuff across releases ie mixing packages. Or compiling some programs/libraries yourself. If you want to compile programs yourself it is better to either install the Debian devel versions OR compile lirbraries yourself and put them in/usr/local/lib and then compile programs against these: that way if you install other Debian packages you won't break your compiled programs. Don't think that's the way you are meant to do it - but it works for me. Any other strategies for mixing compiled/packages out there?
blah
The best strategy for this is to install your library as a debian package.
See the quantity of bs that came out with R00tH4t 5.1 and compare it to any Slackware or Debian release. We are talking about RELEASES not about hot fixes after everything has been f... up on release. M$ is very good in that too, you know...
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
Read Subj:
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
...when my Debian install works?
Seriously though, it's a preference. I happen to like Killian's....maybe you like Guiness. Taste. Preference. Room for all.
What software is released on its origional release date?
:)
Microshaft Products (Windows) - Postponed
Linux 2.2 - Postponed (yeah yeah, no official release date, but I call 6 months off the mark)
I stopped listening to release dates long ago
I'm a linux newbie. Just installed Redhat 5.2 a few weeks ago. Struggling with the HOW-TOs to get IP Masquerading working for my Cable Modem and LAN. Hitting problems with Redhat directory structure (for conf files) doesn't match any documentation I can find (HOW-TOs and books) - so I'm looking to change to a different distribution.
Now there are too many distributions to choose from and I just don't know which to go for. I'm sure I'm not alone struggling with this decision.
Redhat, Debian, Suse, Slackware, Turbo, Stampede!!!
This is stoopid. Totally bogus.
I don't give a sh*t about 100% pure 'free' software. I want something that works and that is consistant with the vast majority of Linux documentation out there. Consistancy between distributiosn would be a real boon for the user, but I don't think companies like Redhat would see it like that.
The whole issue isn't help by all the distribution snobbery you find.
I am no Debian developer officially, but I think that's actually the recommended procedure. Part of the Debian packaging policy is to touch nothing in /usr/local, so ... anything you do there is free and clear of dpkg/apt/dselect/Debian's control. I put local stuff there, and generally don't worry about it -- if I need a development package, I just install the -dev version of the Debian library. (Have -yet- to find a library that hasn't been packaged. :) The local stuff occasionally breaks on upgrades -- but again, that's not the package manager's fault ... I did compile and install it, after all. Even using this strategy of just locally compiling applications, things break -very- infrequently. And, you'll never find a Debian-packaged app that depends on a library not packaged by Debian, so breakage the other way is an impossibility ... provided you haven't mucked around with your dynamic linker setup ... in which case, you know what you're doing, right? :)
I understand where you are coming from wondering which disto to choose. If it is any help, Debian is supposed to follow the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard as of Debian 2.2 (I know this is still in development). I have used many of the disto's out there, and keep coming back to Debian for a lot of reasons. Nonetheless, I know experienced linux users running RH and others--it has a lot to do with personal preference.
Go ahead and give Debian a try...it has some good tools for setting up masquerading. (I installed the appropriate packages and everything was configured right for my multi-subnetted network!) Debian support is easy to find via IRC as well!
dpkg is just change for change sake. dpkg does NOTHING to unify Linux and everything to fragment it. Debian should make RPM better, or use whats there.
Enough said.
I've tasted debian before, but subsequently tried redhat just to see what all the fuss was about. I appreciate the role redhat has been playing, with getting the bugs in front of so many eyeballs, as it were. ;-) I think, though, that when Slink is finally released I'm going to find a permanent home with debian.
The "cue the foo posts in 3, 2, 1..." posts will commence with no subsequent foo posts in 3, 2, 1...
Your right of course, lots of choice isn't a boon for the new users. And I guess my first point about 'Freedom' is not always a reason to use a distribution. Any distribution will work if you can find help I guess. If you know someone whose using Linux use the distrib they are on - then you've got someone to ask questions of. If you don't know anyone (which is the position I was in when I started) then join the mailing lists for your distribution and get ready to read a lot!!!...but also learn a lot ;-). RedHat may suit you well to start with - but use their documentation (on their site and in the manual) rather than using HOWTOs, when you step beyond those bounds then another distrib may suit you better but you'll also know more about the various distribs capabilities :-). Debian would probably suit for documentation/standards compliance and for ease of use with automatic installs - the down side is the package management IS more complex compared to RedHats.
;-)
Welcome to the community - I hope you fare well, take small steps often
blah
I have a .deb snapshot of CVS E on my screen right now, try
http://www.debian.org/~jules/e-cvs/debs
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
Debian developers should be spending their efforts supporting and helping Red Hat. Red Hat have done more to help Linux than any other organization and are quite rightfully getting the recognition THEY deserve.
If Debian cared about Linux (or anything else) they would stop splintering Linux and help Red Hat become better and stronger.
Continued, delayed, confused and irrelevant development of just another distro helps nobody. Like, has ANY major Org supported Debian?? Like: Intel? Netscape? HP??
So what distributions do the HOW-TOs refer to? Or do different HOW-TOs refer to different distributions?
Shouldn't someone be working on this problem? Some kind of effort to force the distribution guys to use standard directory structures, conf file layouts.
This distribution fragmentation is helping no one. Except vinod and friends...
(Same anonymous coward)
I think you need to check your keyboard, it looks like a couple of your letter keys are sending numbers to the computer instead...
Daniel
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
I'd like to be the first to point out that dpkg predates rpm. And rpm was created for purely political reasons not technical. And besides, what good do rpms do if you cant share them between dists?
See this package format comparison
The distribution fragmentation is actaully a good thing in some ways. Debian suits those who love free software and who want to help with making a distribution. Redhat has ease of use for beginners and a strong corporate backing. Slackware is good for those who want to be able to mess with the entire system. Stampede is good if you want something that will take full advantage of the Pentium. Etc.
As for forcing the distrubtion guys to do stuff, there is the Filesystem standard and what not. OTOH, part of the point is freedom. Each group tweaks its own system like it wants to, for whatever reason it wants to. That's part of the freedom everyone talks about; freedom to innovate, freedom to design and freedom to change.
Uhh, splintering? I dont think so, debian came before redhat. Therefore redhat is the one that splintered if you go by your reasoning.
And debian is built on volunteers, just like the kernel is. If you actually had a clue you would know this.
>I don't give a sh*t about 100% pure 'free' software.
you should care about your freedom.
Who cares what came before what. Red Hat is the linux standard now do to ease of installation and adequate package management. Supporting "splinter" distributions like debian is simply doing linux a disservice.
Yuck
dpkg/dselect/apt kick rpms butt. Point.
Debian will never give up their much high quality dpkg for rpm.
Actually I tried Redhat 5.1 one or two months ago just to see where it got. I installed it from Internet. Man, I'll never do it again. RPM is not internet-install friendly. I'm not talking about initial setup, it's the software install after that. Better have a CDROM handy if you want to install Redhat.
Further more, why should one expect others to improve their *OWN BASIC TOOL* while they keep spending their energy on pushing gnome (I'm not saying that's bad)? The only possible answer that I can think of is they don't want to (make it internet-install friendly). They just focus on how to make their GUI appealing and everything else is not that important. Just remind me that MS couldn't even come up with a decent registry editing tool.
People like you do not deserve to live, do the world a favor and kill yourself now.
Redhat's pkg management is adequate, yes. But Debian's is superb. How do you update your system? Do you watch redhat's site? Or freshmeat? Debian users don't have to do either of these. 'apt-get update;apt-get upgrade' and a few moments later, your system is refreshed. One of debian's major points is in-field upgradability, which redhat doesn't offer. Yes, you can upgrade rpms, but you have to fetch all the rpms yourself.
Can you become part of redhat? You can become part of Debian. Debian has hundreds of developers, scattered around the world, all with varying degrees of responsibility and skills. Yet, we all consider each other as equals. From the youngest, a 14 year old, to the oldest, in his 60's. We have people on every continet, yet, we still manage to put together the most kick ass distribution, with hardly any disagreements.
You have no idea how redhat does things, because they are a closed system. Debian has been open since the start, and our Debian Free Software Guidelines was one of the major things to convince Netscape to try moving toward Free Software.
Other people/companies go with redhat, because they are always used to following the biggest rat in a pack. They don't know any better. A rat is still a rat.
So, join Debian, where you can give back to the community.
I used RedHat first, a year ago. I chose RedHat because I heard Debian is tough for newbies. And a couple of months ago, I decided to give Debian a try. It turn out to be much easier than RedHat. I wish I would have use it in the first place (that could have save me lots of precious time).
/usr/local directory fully under my control.
RedHat is great, but Debian is even better. The reason I love Debian is:
1) Stardard. Debian follows stardards, which makes my box more close to other UNIX boxes. And I can have the
2) Easy to upgrade and install. Debian has over 1000 packages, which is under a central control and it is amazingly easy to install (with dselect/apt-get). With rpms I have to get them sometimes from different distributions.
3) Configuration. Debian's postinst script configs my system just the way I want it to be. fvwm2 was ugly in RedHat5.1, now it looks great on my Debian box, with setup-background to automatically choose a random desktop background everytime it starts. The setup of exim finally let me use the smtp server of my ISP without using netscape.
4) Easy of use. I don't understand why people said Debian is the most difficult one to use. This scares a lot of newbies away. In my experience, it is the easiest one to use. Setup PPP? right after first boot (spent one week with RedHat just to find out I should use PAP).
I strongly suggest anyone give Debian a try, and I believe you will like it too. Many thanks to all the Debian developers to make it so great.
Well I take back what i said
but you obciously havent used debian before have you?
contrary to what you may believe, redhat is not the end-all be-all of linux, if it is then we are in serious trouble
It's
# dpkg --force-i-have-backups-and-know-what-im-doing --install libreadlineg2-*.deb
HTH!
-- AIIEE! Universe corrupt - halted.
It's Debian (and probably others but not redhat) who keeps linux in high quality! Period.
I seem to remeber that Corel used Debian for it's first NetWinder Product. And Debian and GNU have a very long (and chequered ) history.
Debian developed the alien package - which allows rpms to be used under Debian (YUK!) and debs to be used under redhat, and both to be used under Slackware.
Get a Clue!
johnf
You are getting a software system with about $2G in development value, all freely (as in speech) produced for your benefit. If you think the linux documentation is bad, I humbly invite to peruse the MS documentation. It is certainly no worse than that.
So, grab a HOWTO, take some notes, and fix it up for the next guy or gal. Linux allows to be part of the solution.
If your time is too valuable, there are many vendors ready to step in. You can trade dollars for convenience. MS I am sure would be thrilled to take your money.
Remember, you are getting 2,000,000,000 worth of software for no money. The documentation exists, is mostly accurate, but no one is going to hold your hand (well, I might, but only at $80/hour, 2 hour minimum). And the documentation is free. And you can usually email the author.
What was your problem again?
The linux hackers of the kernel mailing list are not "just another"
company writing a new kernel. (Right?) Nor are they a group of
people whose highest priorities are market share and profits.
Same with Debian. With the exception of some occasional donations,
Debian is a ZERO-revenue organization. Profits is not their main
objective, that is obvious.
When Debian refused to ship gated, the world heard the message loud and
clear: "Debian has drawn a line, popularity be damned."
What is Linux for Unix, Debian is for Linux.
Slink ain't sh*t. The mighty potato stuns all who even briefly gaze upon its tubular majesty.
mtngrown, tubular since november.
rex->bo->hamm->slink->po ta to
Crow, take a break bud...
mtngrown
Even after years of effort. Or should Debian resort to fewer eyes looking at the code and more brains. Even one brain!
In any case, who the fork cares about the Netwinder?
At least Red Hat release a *working* system that people can *use* without having to listen to the *Microsoft* excuse that "theres been a delay".
If Debian's so-called skilled developers were any good, there would be no delay. There is, so they arnt. Period.
Hmm you have obviously never used Debian. It is far suprerior as far as maintainablity to RedHat. This is precisely because they delay their releases untill bugs are fixed. RedHat is alwyas releasing tons of fixes after their releases because they rush the releases out.
Personally you sound like a cluebie who is new to Linux knows very little and believes that because you use one distro everyone should. So I suggest that until you know what you are talking about you don't post.
Hettar.
In that case why doesn't RedHat use debs insted of rpms to unify the linux comunity.
You cannot share RPMs betwwen diffrent dists like SUSE, RedHat and Caldera any way.
I think you got it backwards there bud.
At least debian doesn't release buggy products like some others i know of. *cough*redhat*cough*
I'd just like to say this now. But you will be eating your words in a few days.
If Debian's so-called skilled developers were any good, there would be no delay. There is, so they arnt. Period.
If Debian's developers weren't good, Debian would not be one of the *most* stable distributions around...
Debian developers are among the most dedicated, thorough, hard-working and talented people I've ever seen. Their goal is not profit; it is simply to provide the best distribution to the community.
Debian focuses on correctness and interoperability between packages, something that is sadly lacking in other distributions... You can be sure that all packages you choose (provided dselect/dpkg doesn't flag any dependency conflicts, etc.) will work properly!
I feel that you have not had much experience with free software or Linux... I suggest you try other distributions (Red Hat, Debian, SuSe, Slackware, Stampede, etc.) before maligning any particular one - especially on the basis of missing a release date!
-Colin
You've never used deb packages, or apt-get? I'm so sorry.
Debian is not 'just another distro.' It's a very mature and widely used distro. Without marketing it's #2. All debian needs is an installer that kicks RH's ass, and RH will be contributing to debian.
And there is much efficiency in you taking the time to whine about it...
"We want to take over the world, but we don't want to do it tomorrow, it's OK if it's next week"-- Linus Torvalds
You won't because RH is so easy to install. But I guarantee you that if you install debian you will love it. The release was delayed for one package 'dpkg.' What that tells you is that debian is serious about stable releases. I upgraded to slink 4 months ago and no package breaks or crashes. Yesterday I apt-get update && apt-get upgrade and in about 2 hours I had a very very stable and fast debian super distro. My 56k modem pulls this website down between 5kbps and 12. My system is faster and more stable than yours, and I don't need the worlds greatest hardware to do it.
People take life way to seriously. use what you want to use and stop trying to make everyone fit into your mold for life. and when someone challenges your mold does it truly matter?
"We want to take over the world, but we don't want to do it tomorrow, it's OK if it's next week"-- Linus Torvalds
Package: alien
Priority: extra
Section: admin
Installed-Size: 89
Maintainer: Joey Hess
Personal friend of mine from highschool. I remember when he wrote this thing. He had to ask me about slackware packages...
Lab test show that use of micro$oft causes deadly cancer in lab animals.
You must be an idiot with no clue. The reason Slink was delayed was because of some nasty bugs. Debian stable releases are much bug free than RedHat releases, though. I have used both, I know. RedHat has a problem with beta testing. Many people who are not debian developers, just like me, run unstable/frozen Debian distribution just for fun of it. While I have not heard much of people who run rawhide (redhats prerelease) .
Who cares what came before what. Windows is the computing standard now due to ease of installation and adequate package management. Supporting "splinter" OSes like Linux is simply doing computer users a disservice.
Hurry up and jump on the individualist bandwagon!
I've always wondered about this.
Forget all that stuff about 'freedom'. Redhat really spurned KDE for political reasons--they couldn't control it. Then they went ahead and got as much control over gnome as possible--hosting all the sites (gnome, gtk, etc) as well as hiring some key programmers (federico, raster, they even tried to get miguel)
But did they do the same shenanigans with the package manager years earlier? Whoever controls the packaging format controls linux? Right from ver 1.0 they were called RPP and later they contracted the PMS guys to create PM which they redid into RPM (Perl then C).
The changelog of dpkg starts in Aug 94--when did Redhat start with RPP? Did they really reinvent the wheel because dpkg was out of their control?
When my windows install works?
It's really not that hard, once you get the hang of it, and it's pretty well documented on the Debian site.
:-)
It is definately worth the time spent to learn it - you end up with a far more managable system. Set your Depends: line right and your local packages won't be broken when upgrading either
I've been using Linux now for 3 months, so I think I am qualified to say that Linux really needs just 1 distribution.
We should all get behind Redhat and put all of our efforts into making one distribution the best it can be.
All this splintering does Linux no good. You don't see 16 different distributions of Windows 98, do you?
Once we have one distribution of Linux, we should then merge all the different types of Unix together, so that there is just GNU/Linux. Put Richard Stallman in charge of Redhat and Microsoft will fall apart within a year.
What does Mr Debian do with all the profits from his distribution? Does he give any of it back to Linus or Eric Raymond or any of the other Linux authors?
I hope he does. There are too many parasites feeding on the bloated corpse of commercial Linux.
You won't because RH is so easy to install. But I guarantee you that if you install debian you will love it.
I'll wholeheartedly agree with your second assertion but not with your first...
With the proper planning (checking hardware compatibility, network/mail/nfs/nis/http/ftp settings, etc.), Debian is remarkably simple to install!
Those new to Debian should check out the following installation documents:
Debian Installation Guide
dselect tutorial
Congrats! You just took the grand prize for "most dorky comment from an AC"!
Well done.
There are no profits for Debian. Debian is a non profit organization. They provide CD images for others to print and sell.
Oh wow, 3 months! geeze. You are clearly an expert on this matter.
Redhat is for cloobies like yourself so i can see why you like it. But within a few more months you will come crawling to debian once you realize its superiority.
Debian is a zero-revenue project, if you do not count the
the occasional $5 donations. There is little room for profits when every year
your revenue is close to a hexadecimal zero.
The debian leadership is elected by vote. If you join, and enough
developers vote for you, it is your turn to become Mr. Debian.
The HOWTOs are very useful for many reasons. For starters, the scripts that come with each distribution STILL only help with the maintenance and configuration of the different "packages" available. BUT, these same tools do NOT replace the need for the tools listed in the HOWTOs. If you read the NET3-HOWTO(or are we up to NET4 by now?), you will see a reference to programs such as pppd, ifconfig, route, and so on. The pppconfig script available for some distributions will only help with setting up pppd, but does not replace the need for pppd. You can also use the HOWTO to understand how the pppconfig script works, and perhaps overcome any weaknesses in the pppconfig script. The same is true for setting up ethernet cards, and for anything else. The HOWTO will almost always tell you how to do things by hand, without forcing you to use a script you may not understand, and which may not suit your needs.
I hope this helps. Each distribution attempts to simplify installation and maintenance of the system in it's own way. Redhat goes for the graphical approach. Slackware goes for a barebones type of approach. Debian tends to be halfway between these two extremes. So, before looking at the differences, take a look at what is similar between the distributions. Yes, there are always people who argue about which is better, but the vast majority choose the distribution they prefer for their own reasons, and while they may not like another distribution, they will USUALLY not care what other people use(until that person who went with Redhat starts asking their Debian or Slackware using friends for help).
My own bias is toward Debian, since there is generally a larger online user base who is available for help than the other distributions, and there is more a feeling of wanting to help other Linux users than the commercial distribution users.
Look it up if you don't what it means.
3 months does not an expert make. 3 months doesn't even qualify you to *have* an opinion.
The whole debian dist is GPL, free for RH to use any part they want. That is what RH business plan is anyhow.
Well, I agree they dropped KDE because they didn't control it. But there is also valid legal reasons for them doing this to.
Did you read Bob Young's essay just recently posted here? Redhat wants brand loyalty, and you certainly can't have that using someone elses package manager. Makes you wonder...
I know that debian is really easy to install. But newbies go crazy with figuring out what hardware settings they need for X. If debian had an install that did all the video hardware detections (and set it up right) we'd be the king distro... This would be especially wonderful for laptop users. Now that there's a neomagic-xserver, there is no reason not to.
Debian is a better distro not because of taste or preference, but because objective standards (i.e., stability, upgrade, quality of packages overall, user support, etc. etc.) is better. If there are objective standards for making an evaluation, then the evaluation is valid. RedHat has one thing going for it--hardware detection. Debian is just better. I'm no closed minded zealot. I spent a full year trying out the various distributions. I've tried all that run on x86, and used them for at least one month for many hours. Debian really is easier, faster, stabler, easier to upgrade, etc. Dial the internet (type 'pon' or 'wvdial'); upgrade your distro (apt-get update; apt-get upgrade); install something (apt-get install something.deb). Have any window manager, have libc5 and glibc2 , old libs, new libs, any mta, any news server, any mua. Anything that runs on linux can run on debian. You slack folks can even compile tar.gz stuff to run. I have the 2.2 kernel, and the pcmcia-cs tar.gz stuff going;
I did the same for PINE (then I packaged it... http://ompages.com/debian/pkgs/pine/pine.html). No, I'm not committed to debian because of some irrational exhuberance for any old distro. I spend a long time evaluating and deciding what was better. Debian is definitely and unequivocably(sp?), the best. Try debian, try it right. If you have any troubled go to irc.us.debian.org #debian and debian-user-request@lists.debian.org and get help fast (like real time support folks). Don't be afraid, you can do it.
There was a press release a while back. You say GNU/Linux. Only debian is Debian GNU/Linux. Debian, GNOME, emacs, etc. are part of the GNU project. So you gotta love em.
Nope,
r00th4t is r00th4t. A system to be possessed by every idiot passing by...
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
Also if you read the article, it mentions that they started Redhat in Jan of 1995.
Dpkg was already around in Aug 1994. (read the changelog)
It looks like Redhat definitely reinvented the wheel just to have their name on a package manager, which they are now trying to push as a defacto standard.
Mr. Debian???
Profits???
Are you from Redmond?
Maybe the stable releases are a little "out of date", but that is easily remedied. Change 'stable' to 'unstable' in /etc/apt/sources.list and run an update+upgrade. Everything to the latest :)
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dselect is definatly ugly. gnome-apt is very nice though.
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But of course, people will never believe this because they think redhat is the greatest company to ever live. "That linux 5.2 thing is really cool!"
I would rather see debian push back the release then ship with bugs. Windows slips shipping dates
because nothing works at all. Linux 2.2 postponed
because it wasn't solid enough on every machine. (Still isn't 100% solid, but better then most everything else out there.) Debian postpones for a pretty minor dpkg issue. I'd say it is definatly good form. (And it is only being sliped a few days...)
I'm glad debian doesn't get as much press as redhat and some of the others. Keeps it cleaner of that media/commercial influence.
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how does dpkg not work? I have not had any problems that were not related to mixing libraries in weird ways.
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Debian is not a splinter group. It is a group of highly dedicated vollenteers who's aim is not in making money. Debian's aim is not in creating an 'adequate' package management system. It is in creating an excelent one. Ease of installation is in reality a moot point since the installation is a one time thing. System managability is the important factor, and debian maintainence is much better then RHL.
Regardless of who is better then who though, it is important that we not get the frame of mind that "This distribution is the most used, so it must be the best, and all other distributions should go away and support it." Choice is the very thing that makes linux so powerful. When we give of that choice, we are destined only to become another microsoft.
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I hear the music of adventure calling me. The fast and bulbous land of po-ta-to is my destiny. :-)
The "cue the foo posts in 3, 2, 1..." posts will commence with no subsequent foo posts in 3, 2, 1...
3 Months of linux is childs play compared to even the meager year of linux exp. that I have, let alone the 3+ years of many of the debian developers. I wholy admit to being "young" in the linux community.
I have used both RedHat and debian for about 6 months each. I probably will not change from debian. However, I still have a tendency to recommend RedHat to people that are just getting started with linux. When the xwindows configuration and initial installation overall is nicer, I will likely stop recommending RedHat altogether.
RedHat is *NOT* linux. RedHat is a distribution. RedHat has done a lot of good for the community, however, commercial motivation is overall a bad thing. Debian can delay shipping without worrying about stockholders or investors getting upset. Delaying shipment because of bugs is a *GOOD* thing.
You don't see multiple distributions of windows 98. You also don't see one good one. Linux has multiple *good* distibutions and one excelent one: Debian
Choice makes linux what it is.
FYI: I don't think RMS would be interested in taking over RedHat. Remember, Stallman is for OpenSource and Free Software. RedHat ships commercial stuff (be it only demoware). Stallman wouldn't allow that.
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like a hole in the head
I used the unstable branch of debian from summer of 96 until a few months ago, with only rare problems. Every few months an incompatible or unsychronized problem would render the system unusable. There was also a period when I had to use bo X with hamm. No problem, just hit = on the packages in question.
/etc/issue and the like to remove that ugly "GNU/" from in front of Linux :)
Maybe it's the particular days I upgraded slink, but this became once or twice a month, and I had to downgrade back to hamm.
Don't get me wrong; debian is wonderful, and as of a year or so ago, easier to install than RH. But slink hasn't been nearly as reliable as preceding unstable variants.
And my bloodpressure's been better since I discovered I could edit
hawk, who will put FreeBSD utilities on his once he gets a few hours to spare.
They are evil and dirty.
They have a lot of money.
They buy programmers. They buy you.
They seek power. They seek control.
They charge you for what is not theirs.
They sell softwares that are free.
They lie. They steal. They cheat.
They stab in the back.
And RedHat is worst. They fool you programmer. They make profit from the free software you make - and they do not pay you.
They enslave programmers.
So, next time, think better before spending your money on this dirty company. Think well. Remember that you do not want another company to monopolize software - this time FREE software.
Support Debian.
"Basically the message is: Steal It!
actually... I use debian on my laptop. and haven't used slack since well it's been awhile. my point was more to those people who use a distro as a way to look down on someone else. To me it's all linux some of it may be packaged rather strange for my taste but it's still linux.and that's the point taste use what you want I use debian and don't care what anyone else uses.
"We want to take over the world, but we don't want to do it tomorrow, it's OK if it's next week"-- Linus Torvalds