(I get to make TWO Heinlein references in one story!)
Heinlein wrote a short story in the 1950's about the need for the US to decentralize. He was thinking about nuclear bomb attacks; not giving any one large target was a good idea. At the time, he said the US would just have eat the lowered productivity and growth in order to give the country a chance to survive nuclear war (and make the US harder to conquerer).
He poo-poo'd telecomuting, thinking that people are social animals who need "face time." Maybe slashdotters are outliers; I dunno.
Yup. I think some people and some civilizations are worthy of destruction.
Good question, but I don't think that it justifies retaliation against a different group of Arabs.
When Pakistan was founded, there was a huge displacement as Muslims moved north and Hindus moved south. Tit for tat. Same thing happened in Cyprus. Jews look after their own. Always have, always will. So far, Arabs have used the Palestinians for political reasons and given them virtually nothing, not even citizenship. Whose fault is that? Whether or not you like collectivist behavior, it exists.
The UN certainly has its flaws - but the Security Council includes a number of countries that don't tend to agree, and yet they were able to agree on this.
That's because it was politically convenient. There are hundreds of UN resolutions that are ignored. Like the one which calls for Syria to pull its troops out of Lebanon. Don't hear much Arab complaints about that one, eh?
The UN is a useless, hate-filled organization. It should be disbanded.
I find the existence and power of the UN a whole lot more credible.
Of course Jews should be allowed to live in peace throughout the historical area of Israel, or wherever else they wish to.
But the fact is, they aren't safe. You'd have to be on crack to think that Jews are safe in most parts of the world. And before you start chalking it up to "Israeli agression" or other nonsense, look at the reasons for the founding of the Zionist movement. I'm talking 50 years before the Holocaust occured. 2,000 years of being kicked in the ass was enough.
If this was a universal practice among the Canaanites, it would surely cause the tribe to dwindle and disappear.
Sacrificing the first born son or daughter to one of your dieties was a common practice. Look it up.
That is sickening behaviour, but I don't believe it is something that Arabs in general, or Palestinians in general, will do.
I don't think that (many) Palestinian parents are sending their kids out as cannon fodder on purpose. But I have no doubt that the Palestinian Authority is. Their parents may love them, but Yassar Arafat sees children as propaganda weapons.
Why not kill only those people who committed such crimes (as the book of Leviticus commands)?
Keep on reading. Other parts of the Torah and Prophets (can't look up right now) command the destruction of entire tribes.
Is Germany, or Ireland, the home of Americans whose ancestors came from there a few hundred years ago? No.
As an American Indian that question. If you can find one.
However, I do dispute any claim that people should be ejected from their homes because they became part of another country
So where would you put all of the Jews from Arab countries who were thrown out when Israel was founded in 1948?
UN Security Council resolution 242 called the withdrawal from all occupied territory following the Six Day War.
The UN has Uganda, Cuba, and Sudan on its Human Rights committee. I take anything the UN says or does with a serious grain of salt.
The Koran states that Israel is Jewish land, and Moslems are to stand by the Jews to protect this land. The Arabs have not obeyed their own religion, because they have decided they hate Jews (as a symbol of the West) more than they love God.
Furthermore, the Cananites who were marked for destruction were not marked because of a whim. It's because of their foul practices. One of the nicer was Moloch worship, where parents would smash the skulls of their infant children against an altar so they would have good crops.
As a nice modern variation on this theme, we now have Arabs busing children to war zones, using them as cover while Arab snipers shoot at troops. The only difference I see is that the Moloch worshipers didn't try to push the job of killing their children off on someone else, and then blame them for doing so.
You can keep on defending them. But you are defending evil. What does that make you?
You never answered my question about the West Bank being "foreign territory." Or are you just going to not admit that you are wrong?
The West Bank contains many of the holiest sites in Judaism. Hebron is where Abraham and Sarah lived and it is where they are buried, along with Isaac, Rebeccah and Jacob. It is mentioned explictly in the Torah as the inheritance of Caleb, one of the two spies who was not afraid of entering Canaan.
There had been a Jewish community there for 3,000 years. In 1929, when Arabs rioted and killed dozens of innocent Jews (mostly students), the British evacuated the remaining Jews. The first "settlers" who came to Hebron in 1967 were descendants of those who had been killed or driven out in 1929.
So, oh he who knows all, do you give Jews your official permission to live in their city? How Mighty White of you.
Jews have returned to their home after 2,000 years of exile and found squatters there. Based on their actions since the Jews started returning, they should be evicted. To pretend that Israel is not Jewish land and to say that Jews are "occupying" Israel is vile and disgusting. Why the hell does every other group in the world have right to its homeland except the Jews?
-jon
Re: What can be done about terrorism? - 1st Sam 15
on
More On Tragedy
·
· Score: 2
I don't have a Bible in front of me so I can't quote it completely, but you are missing what Samuel did when he found out Saul had kept Agag alive. Samuel slew Agag himself and chastised Saul for not following the word of the Lord.
The sad news is the the spiritual kin of Amalek rise in every generation, and it is our responsiblity to destroy them.
Just how many MILLIONS of dollars was raised by irish pubs, clubs chairty etc and sent to buy guns and explosives to kill british civilians
Do I hold all Americans responsible for this?
No, but you should hold the Irish-Americans who support the IRA responsible. It's disgusting that they support the IRA, and Britian should be charging them as criminals.
I don't hold ALL Muslims and Arabs responsible. But those who have stood by and silently encouraged terrorism should be ashamed and disgusted with what has been done with their help and in their name. If they aren't, they should be exterminated.
Better than anyone else, they know the names and the trails. It's their responsibility to turn in the murderers. If they continue to stand by silently, they should be exterminated.
-jon
Re:What can be done about terrorism?
on
More On Tragedy
·
· Score: 0, Flamebait
No, these people are thinking, "Shit, now everyone is going to blame all of us right away."
They are the one who raise funds for terror overseas and pretend it is "charity."
They are the ones who turn a blind eye to places in their communities which preach hate and instruct people in jihad.
They are complicit.
It's time for Muslims and Arabs in the US to show that they are not guilty of harboring terrorists. The Japanese who were interned by the US during WWII were loyal citizens, wrongfully accused. I don't think the same is true for a significant fraction of the US Muslim and Arab community. They came to this country with the intention of destroying it.
Loyal Muslims and Arabs should be horrified and should be helping to turn in the filth. Otherwise, what are the rest of us to assume?
The difference between Noriega and Bin Laden and his ilk is that narco-thugs are better people than Islamic and Arab terrorists. Both groups may deserve death, but you can reason with a drug lord. The only thing Bin Laden and his followers understand is massive punishment to all they hold dear.
If the US did the right thing, Iraq, Iran, Afganistan, and Syria wouldn't be habitable for the next several million years.
You're a fucking moron. The USS Vincenze shot down a jet which was (1) coming towards them and (2) did not identify themselves. They thought it was an attack. They responded. They were horrified when they found out that it was a civilian jet liner. The US paid reparations and apologized profusely.
To begin to compare that to what Bin Laden and his followers did shows you are a reprehensible bastard. And one too cowardly to even sign his name.
The Muslim religion and MOST of the people who practice it do not condone the shedding of blood, even "infidels".
I never said that it was a Muslim belief. In fact, the Koran explicitly forbids the actions which Hamas glorifies in the in the name of Islam. Hamas-associated Imams preach filth that you would not believe. The Palestinian Authorithy has mind-numbing hate being used as kiddie TV. The textbooks used in schools glorify suicide bombings and encourage children to be martyrs. And then, when Israel is bombed, there is dancing in the streets. Go figure.
There should be no doubt that these people who preach this hate are worthy of death.
I'm saying that you should kill those who have sworn to kill you. Have all arabs sworn to kill all Jews? Nope. But those who have should expect no mercy when the object of their hatred does unto them what they wish to do unto others.
You're just not looking. Luckily, MEMRI (http://www.memri.org) has made it easy.
Here's a nice Friday Sermon:
http://www.memri.org/sd/SP25201.html
It's title? "Blessings to whoever saved a bullet to stick it in a Jew's head."
You're just unwilling to belive that there may in fact be evil people in the world, worthy of extermination. Maybe if it was your family in the WTC or in Jerusalem, you'd change your mind.
When someone else has sworn to kill you, sitting around and trying to be nice is stupid. Kill them first. Or are you not paying attention to what those vermin are preaching in their newspapers, television programs, and mosques? Imagine a TV show for children which told kids how sweet the blood of the infidels smells. Or, if you'd like, move to the West Bank and watch it yourself.
The only way we can be safe, is by treating the rest of the world with respect instead of pushing people around so we can get richer.
No, the only way we can be safe is by getting rid of the fucks who inspire, incite, and fund this. We KNOW who pays for terrorism. Hell, Iran has it as an entry in their offical state budget! Bomb the fuckers.
We may not know exactly who did this ONE atrocity, but we know the names and the addresses of the people responsible for many others. Get them now. Never give them quarter. This is war, and people who talk about "treating the world with respect" should look up "Sudatenland" in their encyclopedias.
If Israel actually used massive killing, there wouldn't be a Palestinian alive. The fact that Israel HASN'T used massive force (because they should have a "measured" response) is why there still is a problem.
To give you some perspective, the Israelis have been having a WTC blown up a week for the past year. Maybe Americans will finally shut the fuck up and let them do what is necessary.
But the question is: given the chance, would a large software industry create its own private army to enforce what it wants?
Microsoft, Sony, IBM, Disney, News Corp, AOL/Time Warner...these companies could afford private armies and without a government that could reign them in, I could certainly see them using force to enforce their views on copyright. The Sklyarovs of the world would just disappear off the streets one day, a la Jimmy Hoffa.
If you don't think large corporations wouldn't murder to support their bottom lines, you haven't been paying attention.
Bullshit. US federal law requires the addition of a dye to fuel oil (home heating oil) to prevent it being sold as diesel fuel. It's the same stuff, but taxed differently. That's the only reason.
Ah, thanks for letting me know. Post Oklahoma City, I remember hearing about such things, but I guess they never came to be.
It's interesting that tagging is considered a bad idea by other industries. Maybe they respect freedom more than the computer industry does?
Anyway, someone who is a moderator should mod this AC post up.
There are laws which require chemicals be added to things like fuel oil, so they don't work as well in bombs or so the bomb can be traced after it explodes (you can figure out who sold it). They don't much impact the non-bomb use of fuel oil, so it isn't seen as a big deal by the manufacturers. After all, it fights terrorism and defends America and such.
In the paid-off minds of dolts like Fritz Hollings, this bill is no different. He has been told that this will make it impossible to do "bad" things with a computer while still making it possible to do "good" things with a computer. Since he doesn't understand computers, and doesn't much care, it sounds reasonable. Besides, the checks he's getting from Disney must be freaking enormous.
Unfortunately, Congress-critters have long been proposing and passing laws which control things they don't understand. What they will understand is that laws like this are going to kill the American computer (hardware and software) industry. The foreign workers who make up a large portion of the tech workforce (because most Americans are too stupid and lazy to bother with the necessary math) aren't going to come to this country. The relatively few natives who can handle the math and science are going to leave.
If there's a third-world country out there that would like to become a tech powerhouse within 5 years, all they need to do is build a stable power grid, pass strong privacy and sane copyright and patent laws, and allow automatic citizenship to the immediate families of programmers and engineers. Prosperity will follow quickly.
As of right now, I think I'd be on the first boat.
Slashdot Mirror
Heinlein wrote a short story in the 1950's about the need for the US to decentralize. He was thinking about nuclear bomb attacks; not giving any one large target was a good idea. At the time, he said the US would just have eat the lowered productivity and growth in order to give the country a chance to survive nuclear war (and make the US harder to conquerer).
He poo-poo'd telecomuting, thinking that people are social animals who need "face time." Maybe slashdotters are outliers; I dunno.
-jon
Read Heinlein's "Moon is a Harsh Mistress", which is largely about just that concept...
-jon
Yup. I think some people and some civilizations are worthy of destruction.
Good question, but I don't think that it justifies retaliation against a different group of Arabs.
When Pakistan was founded, there was a huge displacement as Muslims moved north and Hindus moved south. Tit for tat. Same thing happened in Cyprus. Jews look after their own. Always have, always will. So far, Arabs have used the Palestinians for political reasons and given them virtually nothing, not even citizenship. Whose fault is that? Whether or not you like collectivist behavior, it exists.
The UN certainly has its flaws - but the Security Council includes a number of countries that don't tend to agree, and yet they were able to agree on this.
That's because it was politically convenient. There are hundreds of UN resolutions that are ignored. Like the one which calls for Syria to pull its troops out of Lebanon. Don't hear much Arab complaints about that one, eh?
The UN is a useless, hate-filled organization. It should be disbanded.
I find the existence and power of the UN a whole lot more credible.
I pity you.
-jon
But the fact is, they aren't safe. You'd have to be on crack to think that Jews are safe in most parts of the world. And before you start chalking it up to "Israeli agression" or other nonsense, look at the reasons for the founding of the Zionist movement. I'm talking 50 years before the Holocaust occured. 2,000 years of being kicked in the ass was enough.
If this was a universal practice among the Canaanites, it would surely cause the tribe to dwindle and disappear.
Sacrificing the first born son or daughter to one of your dieties was a common practice. Look it up.
That is sickening behaviour, but I don't believe it is something that Arabs in general, or Palestinians in general, will do.
I don't think that (many) Palestinian parents are sending their kids out as cannon fodder on purpose. But I have no doubt that the Palestinian Authority is. Their parents may love them, but Yassar Arafat sees children as propaganda weapons.
Why not kill only those people who committed such crimes (as the book of Leviticus commands)?
Keep on reading. Other parts of the Torah and Prophets (can't look up right now) command the destruction of entire tribes.
Is Germany, or Ireland, the home of Americans whose ancestors came from there a few hundred years ago? No.
As an American Indian that question. If you can find one.
However, I do dispute any claim that people should be ejected from their homes because they became part of another country
So where would you put all of the Jews from Arab countries who were thrown out when Israel was founded in 1948?
UN Security Council resolution 242 called the withdrawal from all occupied territory following the Six Day War.
The UN has Uganda, Cuba, and Sudan on its Human Rights committee. I take anything the UN says or does with a serious grain of salt.
What makes Israel the home of all Jews, then?
God does. The UN can take it up with Him.
-jon
Furthermore, the Cananites who were marked for destruction were not marked because of a whim. It's because of their foul practices. One of the nicer was Moloch worship, where parents would smash the skulls of their infant children against an altar so they would have good crops.
As a nice modern variation on this theme, we now have Arabs busing children to war zones, using them as cover while Arab snipers shoot at troops. The only difference I see is that the Moloch worshipers didn't try to push the job of killing their children off on someone else, and then blame them for doing so.
You can keep on defending them. But you are defending evil. What does that make you?
You never answered my question about the West Bank being "foreign territory." Or are you just going to not admit that you are wrong?
-jon
There had been a Jewish community there for 3,000 years. In 1929, when Arabs rioted and killed dozens of innocent Jews (mostly students), the British evacuated the remaining Jews. The first "settlers" who came to Hebron in 1967 were descendants of those who had been killed or driven out in 1929.
So, oh he who knows all, do you give Jews your official permission to live in their city? How Mighty White of you.
-jon
-jon
The sad news is the the spiritual kin of Amalek rise in every generation, and it is our responsiblity to destroy them.
-jon
Do I hold all Americans responsible for this?
No, but you should hold the Irish-Americans who support the IRA responsible. It's disgusting that they support the IRA, and Britian should be charging them as criminals.
I don't hold ALL Muslims and Arabs responsible. But those who have stood by and silently encouraged terrorism should be ashamed and disgusted with what has been done with their help and in their name. If they aren't, they should be exterminated.
Better than anyone else, they know the names and the trails. It's their responsibility to turn in the murderers. If they continue to stand by silently, they should be exterminated.
-jon
They are the one who raise funds for terror overseas and pretend it is "charity."
They are the ones who turn a blind eye to places in their communities which preach hate and instruct people in jihad.
They are complicit.
It's time for Muslims and Arabs in the US to show that they are not guilty of harboring terrorists. The Japanese who were interned by the US during WWII were loyal citizens, wrongfully accused. I don't think the same is true for a significant fraction of the US Muslim and Arab community. They came to this country with the intention of destroying it.
Loyal Muslims and Arabs should be horrified and should be helping to turn in the filth. Otherwise, what are the rest of us to assume?
-jon
If the US did the right thing, Iraq, Iran, Afganistan, and Syria wouldn't be habitable for the next several million years.
-jon
These same assholes are now calling for blood when the same thing was done to the US.
Hopefully, Sharon will be given the green light to exterminate Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the PA, and all their supporters.
-jon
To begin to compare that to what Bin Laden and his followers did shows you are a reprehensible bastard. And one too cowardly to even sign his name.
-jon
I never said that it was a Muslim belief. In fact, the Koran explicitly forbids the actions which Hamas glorifies in the in the name of Islam. Hamas-associated Imams preach filth that you would not believe. The Palestinian Authorithy has mind-numbing hate being used as kiddie TV. The textbooks used in schools glorify suicide bombings and encourage children to be martyrs. And then, when Israel is bombed, there is dancing in the streets. Go figure.
There should be no doubt that these people who preach this hate are worthy of death.
-jon
And I don't drive an SUV.
The Europeans are awash in blood money, though.
-jon
I'm saying that you should kill those who have sworn to kill you. Have all arabs sworn to kill all Jews? Nope. But those who have should expect no mercy when the object of their hatred does unto them what they wish to do unto others.
-jon
Here's a nice Friday Sermon:
http://www.memri.org/sd/SP25201.html
It's title? "Blessings to whoever saved a bullet to stick it in a Jew's head."
You're just unwilling to belive that there may in fact be evil people in the world, worthy of extermination. Maybe if it was your family in the WTC or in Jerusalem, you'd change your mind.
-jon
When someone else has sworn to kill you, sitting around and trying to be nice is stupid. Kill them first. Or are you not paying attention to what those vermin are preaching in their newspapers, television programs, and mosques? Imagine a TV show for children which told kids how sweet the blood of the infidels smells. Or, if you'd like, move to the West Bank and watch it yourself.
They started the fight. It's time to end it.
-jon
No, but notice that "the Palestinians" are dancing in the streets in joy. Kill them.
Remember Amalek.
-jon
No, the only way we can be safe is by getting rid of the fucks who inspire, incite, and fund this. We KNOW who pays for terrorism. Hell, Iran has it as an entry in their offical state budget! Bomb the fuckers.
We may not know exactly who did this ONE atrocity, but we know the names and the addresses of the people responsible for many others. Get them now. Never give them quarter. This is war, and people who talk about "treating the world with respect" should look up "Sudatenland" in their encyclopedias.
-jon
To give you some perspective, the Israelis have been having a WTC blown up a week for the past year. Maybe Americans will finally shut the fuck up and let them do what is necessary.
-jon
The Palestinians cheering in the streest should be liquidated.
-jon
Microsoft, Sony, IBM, Disney, News Corp, AOL/Time Warner...these companies could afford private armies and without a government that could reign them in, I could certainly see them using force to enforce their views on copyright. The Sklyarovs of the world would just disappear off the streets one day, a la Jimmy Hoffa.
If you don't think large corporations wouldn't murder to support their bottom lines, you haven't been paying attention.
-jon
Ah, thanks for letting me know. Post Oklahoma City, I remember hearing about such things, but I guess they never came to be.
It's interesting that tagging is considered a bad idea by other industries. Maybe they respect freedom more than the computer industry does?
Anyway, someone who is a moderator should mod this AC post up.
-jon
In the paid-off minds of dolts like Fritz Hollings, this bill is no different. He has been told that this will make it impossible to do "bad" things with a computer while still making it possible to do "good" things with a computer. Since he doesn't understand computers, and doesn't much care, it sounds reasonable. Besides, the checks he's getting from Disney must be freaking enormous.
Unfortunately, Congress-critters have long been proposing and passing laws which control things they don't understand. What they will understand is that laws like this are going to kill the American computer (hardware and software) industry. The foreign workers who make up a large portion of the tech workforce (because most Americans are too stupid and lazy to bother with the necessary math) aren't going to come to this country. The relatively few natives who can handle the math and science are going to leave.
If there's a third-world country out there that would like to become a tech powerhouse within 5 years, all they need to do is build a stable power grid, pass strong privacy and sane copyright and patent laws, and allow automatic citizenship to the immediate families of programmers and engineers. Prosperity will follow quickly.
As of right now, I think I'd be on the first boat.
-jon