Sorry... I just can't see how Linux can be a viable alternative on the Desktop now.
People say it might not be ready for the "home user" but it's ready for corporate desktop?
I say... what's the difference? If you've ever worked for a corporation (I work for a College) that has a computer on every desk (we have 2000) you'll know that the vast majority of those people know how to do three things marginally well. Open Word, surf with IE, and run Outlook.
Throw them a curve ball like OpenOffice and I'm sorry but it's just not going to work.
What about with the secretaries need to work with a Publisher file? Or modify a PDF document that they got from some other campus? Or do web development. Is there an equivalent to Frontpage (bleck, I know) or Dreamweaver on Linux? No.
Could it make the SysAdmins' life (like mine) easier, ya probably... but since when did that matter to the big whigs?
Even MacOS X has more application parity with Windows than Linux does and when you're talking thousands of people you have to use the system that will work well with the majority of them.
That's because there is no such thing from Apple yet. Given the serious engineering that obviously went into the G5 case, I don't think we can assume that they can just drop a G5 into a current XServe and sell it.
Plus, these guys were on a pretty strict deadline, the cluster has to be functional by November IIRC. So, they wouldn't have wanted to wait any longer than they did.
Personally. I think this should have gone in the "More-Bang-for-your-Buck" Dept.
But, to each their own.;=)
Re:Fiber is still expensive -- followup
on
Wiring A New House?
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
Oh, I just thought of something.
It will be a little more expensive, but you might want to think about stringing "STP" CAT5, instead of UTP... that's Shielded Twisted Pair instead of Unshielded.
STP is what is plenum graded, so that it doesn't catch fire as easily. Also, it's better shielded against interference from other electrical sources that might be in the wall.
It's not a requirement or anything... but it might be worth considering simply for safety reasons.
You would need a lot of other hardware to make it work.
With Ethernet, hubs and switches are cheap... you can wire everything back to a patch box and from there have it connect to your ADSL or cable modem.
I'm not sure what the costs are on actual fiber cable, but it's certainly not as cheap as CAT5. What's more, you would either need a NIC in your computer capable of accepting fiber (over $US300 I think) or you would need a Fiber-->CAT5 converter box at each point where fiber comes out of the wall. Those boxes aren't cheap either.
Really, it just comes down to this. If you want super-fast communication between your computers in your house, and are willing to pay a hefty premium, them fiber it is. But it's not going to make your Internet connection much faster. Your Internet connection will only every be as fast as whatever the Cable or DSL modem has going out... and that's usually a 10Mbs connection running at 2Mbs download max.
Personally... if you want scalability, I would just make sure that the CAT5 you string is high quality and has *all eight conductors*... that way it is good for Gigabit Ethernet... which is slowly coming down in price and is already more affordable than Fiber for LANs.
The main issue here is that I, and everyone else, have a right to the freedom to express that Apple screwed up on their release, and we have a right to provide information as to how to take advantage of that screw-up, just as we have a right to convey any other information, or express any opinion.
How did Apple screw up exactly? The updater is functional. It updates your system from 10.0 to 10.1... exactly as advertised.
Making your installer mechanism easy to modify is a choice of the developers making it. Personally, if I was working on a project like that, I'd want to do exactly the same thing.
People payed for an update CD. Not a Full Install.
Modifying that CD if a breach of the EULA that you agree to when you break the seal (it also pops it down during the Install). Thus, telling other people through a popular website how to breach their EULA is also not cosher...
I really fail to understand how people find this so hard to take.
I'm surprised by the fact that people think Apple is wrong in this.
When you buy a $100 cubic-zirconium ring, and then take it home only to find out it's a real diamond... do you take it back? Yes. If you don't you're stealing.
Apple is selling an *upgrade* to an Operating System. People pay $20 for this upgrade. If those people turn around and modify it so that it's a Full Install... then they are getting a $100 product.
Is Apple getting the $80 they deserve from the people modifying their CDs? No. Therefore... those people are morally obligated to not do that.
Whether it's legal or not... I don't care, I assume it's not. However, it's morally wrong... so on those grounds, Apple certainly has a case.
There are actual products (Yamahas latest CDRW being one) being shipped with USB 2.0 now. So I don't think it's a bad move for Apple to start building it into their systems.
That is why I mentioned the "Apollo" G4, which is slated to appear in the coming months from Motorola and break the 1GHz barrier. It's also a completely new revision of the G4, should have more AltiVec registers and an enhanced architecture for the IO (ie. DDR and/or HyperTransport support)
Oh, and the founder/creator of IEEE 1394, darn it I can't remember his name, said recently in a report on CNET that 1394b products will be shipping by the end of the year. So an Apple intro at MWSF in January, or Tokyo in February makes the most sense.
Yes, it's most likely that Apples next revision of hardware will include USB 2.0 and IEEE 1394b (Firewire 2.0?). However, 3.2Gbs is not the number.
The next step for Firewire is actually 800Mbs. 1.2Gbs, 2.8Gbs and 3.2Gbs speeds are possible with this new protocol though, given the use of copper and fiber for the physical connection.
What I find more interesting, though, is that the next revision of PowerMac should sport some form of DDR SDRAM... and either the new "Apollo" G4 at around 1.2GHz or the brand new 64bit capable G5! Both Bandwidth Hungry CPUs... that should give the P4 and Palomino (?) a run for their money.
The PowerMac G4 are actually fairly quiet for systems with a fan... of course, Cubes and iMacs and iBooks are fanless. The PowerBook does have a fan... it's not big, but you notice it when it turns on.
Personally, I have a B&W G3 Mac Tower and a homebuilt (Duron) PC tower. I got so fed up with the noise from the dual fans in my PC that I stuck it in the closet beside my desk... it's much quieter now:) I have my Mac and PC hookup into a USB KVM box... so that's how I can get away with the extra distance. It also cleans up the rats nest under my desk a little.
And no, the PC is not any hotter than it was before beside my feet.
yeah... i was sitting behind you and Mr. Hubbard last year. Your demoes rocked over the Quicktime ones, especially the surprise one you had lined up for us.:)
Darn Slashbotters... never look past the 3rd post in a thread...
I hope I can find a way to WWDC this year, I've been lucky enough to go the past 3 years, but my "Student" status is fading away... and $US1500 is hard to swallow even with a good job.
I'm a little confused as to why this is being seen as a "new thing" for WWDC 2001 by you guys. Apple has had sessions at WWDC dealing with Darwin and the BSD core of MacOS X since they announced the Darwin strategy. So, this isn't really news...
That's not to say that this isn't significant for the BSD world though. WWDC is the main developer event for the Darwin project, more people will see Darwin and the other BSD bits of MacOS X at WWDC than at any other time in the year. Through MacOS X, Darwin and BSD are going to be "brought to the masses" like no BSD distribution has ever been before. This could be a very big deal, I think it would be really cool if more people from the traditional BSD and Linux communities came to WWDC and mingled with the the budding MacOS X developers.
There is potential for a powerful force to grow here...
in the latest "available" build (4k46) the XML.plist file for the Dock still includes all the options to set the orientation (left, right, top, bottom) and pinning (front, back, center) of the Dock. However, the ability to change it using the "Defaults" CLI hack has been taken away. I'm sure Apple will include these options in the final... otherwise it would be stupid to have them just sitting in the.plist file.
PPPoE support is in there, yup.
Current builds of OS X use SSH1 or 2 for Telnet access by default (you have to go turn on remote access and ftp in the "Sharing" preferences panel though, it's off by default). Hopefully, in light of the recent vulnerability found in SSH1, APple will simply use SSH2 exclusively to get around that hole.
I would go to MacWeek and check out the "PowerBook Diary" review... great series on the new Titanium 'Book.
Darwin is a bunch of things actually...
check out http://publicsource.apple.com
Darwin is an Operating System:
Available to download from Apple, Darwin is a functional operating system that runs on PPC and x86 (thoughx86 support is very minimal for now). It is based on the BSD-ish core of MacOS X and simply comprises all the BSD stuff in MacOS X, plus the MACH kernel, HFS, NetInfo, and a bunch of other Apple/Next technology.
You are thinking of "Darwin Streaming Server". Which is the Open Source (APSL) version Apple's Quicktime Streaming Server. Server software that allows broadcasts of Quicktime content over the Internet. It can run on MacOS X/Darwin, WinNT/2000, Solaris, Linux, and FreeBSD I believe.
There are other initiatives under the Darwin moniker as well... I suggest you go check'em out.
No silly... it means that you can install and run it on Darwin or MacOS X PB! (which is way cooler:) ) and eventually run X-apps within that environment.
The guy doing the work for OS X and Darwin is on the Darwin mailing lists right now fielding bug reports and such. Fun to watch!:)
Oops... I worded that last post badly (in case I forgot my password... I'm Maktoo again)...
I didn't mean that Apple has taken the 3rd party code out and released it into Darwin no...
I meant Apple has taken out all 3rd Party source code (drivers mostly) from the inner workings of MacOS X PB that correlate to parts of Darwin. They have then released this "cleaned up" version of the Darwin Core of MacOS X in a binary distribution known as Darwin 1.2
However, as I said above... most of the changes that between Darwin 1.1 and 1.2 have been available to the Darwin community for many weeks thanks to the CVS system which keeps updates from the Darwin and Apple communities synched. The only CVS trees not synched regularly are the XNU trees and some others... I mentioned this above.
thanks
Chris (Maktoo)
This isn't really the case.
I recommend everyone here to join the Darwin-Users or Darwin-Dev mailing lists if they are interested.
If you read those mailing lists, you will understand that the vast majority of the code that is in the *CVS* repositories available for Darwin is exactly what the Apple employees are working on *right now*. IIRC the only directories that aren't synched daily are the "xnu" (kernel) trees. This is because many of the drivers that Apple has internally are 3rd party, and thus are not available to be released into the Open Source community.
What Apple has done with Darwin 1.2 is finally taken out and approved all the 3rd party code that was in OS X PB and released it into the Darwin community as a new Binary. The sources have actually been there almost since PB was released.
There is a wonderful amount of work being done on Darwin. Mainly focusing on getting it to boot/run on Intel and older PPC machines. There's also some work going into the X system.
Just to clarify one of things that was said in the original note... AGP and FireWire (and indeed AGP/USB) have nothing to do with each other. One (1394) is a bus designed specifically to transfer data from a huge variety of internal and external devices that can be daisy chained together. The other (AGP) is a standard meant for expansion cards that serve a very specific purpose (Graphics) and provides a very direct and large link to the CPU.
Because of these differences, I don't think this is a sign of Intel putting up another front against Firewire. It's simply what they see as the "next generation" after their AGP design tops out at 8x.
I'm somewhat disappointed that there will be *yet another* type of card out there. Luckily, it probably won't be out for at least 2 years... so we have time to enjoy what we have now and worry about this new thing when it shows up.
And as for the whole "1394 vs. USB 2" thing... god... we've gone over this so much. It's obvious that FireWire has a very strong foot hold right now... and USB 2 will still not be suitable for DV, so what's the problem? Judging buy the sheer number of companies now producing 1394 products, it's obviously not the licensing fees!
Actually, MacOS X Server *does not* support SMP systems. The Mach 2.x kernel that they used is very bad at figuring out what to do with more than one processor.:+)
No, MacOS X will be where these machines will shine. They stressed at WWDC 99 that they would be building in very good SMP support into the MACH 3.0 (which is included in Darwin of course). This year there are a few sessions dedicated to the topic. I will be there.;)
Just to clear up the confusion and silly (read: funny)... MP means Multi-Processor.
Again, I'm not sure whether there is much point in Apple actually putting these machines up for sale. MacOS X should be an excellent OS for SMP applications, but MacOS 9 most definitely is NOT. I think if APple were to release these systems now it might lead to a little ridicule to the uselessness of the current/classic MacOS at using SMP. (Symmetric MP)
Slashdot Mirror
Sorry... I just can't see how Linux can be a viable alternative on the Desktop now.
People say it might not be ready for the "home user" but it's ready for corporate desktop?
I say... what's the difference? If you've ever worked for a corporation (I work for a College) that has a computer on every desk (we have 2000) you'll know that the vast majority of those people know how to do three things marginally well. Open Word, surf with IE, and run Outlook.
Throw them a curve ball like OpenOffice and I'm sorry but it's just not going to work.
What about with the secretaries need to work with a Publisher file? Or modify a PDF document that they got from some other campus? Or do web development. Is there an equivalent to Frontpage (bleck, I know) or Dreamweaver on Linux? No.
Could it make the SysAdmins' life (like mine) easier, ya probably... but since when did that matter to the big whigs?
Even MacOS X has more application parity with Windows than Linux does and when you're talking thousands of people you have to use the system that will work well with the majority of them.
Unless they have the worlds largest TSR centre I just can't see them handling the support needs that Linux is going to require.
"How do I install X application/game/hardware with Linux"
"I bought Microsoft Office.. why doesn't it do anything in LInux"
Unless you already know what you're doing with Linux... you might as well use Windows 95 if you want to have any clue on how to do something.
Linux still has to clean up the user experience before it'll be a real desktop alternative to Windows. (or even MacOSX)
That's because there is no such thing from Apple yet. Given the serious engineering that obviously went into the G5 case, I don't think we can assume that they can just drop a G5 into a current XServe and sell it.
Plus, these guys were on a pretty strict deadline, the cluster has to be functional by November IIRC. So, they wouldn't have wanted to wait any longer than they did.
Personally. I think this should have gone in the "More-Bang-for-your-Buck" Dept.
;=)
But, to each their own.
Oh, I just thought of something.
It will be a little more expensive, but you might want to think about stringing "STP" CAT5, instead of UTP... that's Shielded Twisted Pair instead of Unshielded.
STP is what is plenum graded, so that it doesn't catch fire as easily. Also, it's better shielded against interference from other electrical sources that might be in the wall.
It's not a requirement or anything... but it might be worth considering simply for safety reasons.
Right now, I wouldn't even consider using fiber.
You would need a lot of other hardware to make it work.
With Ethernet, hubs and switches are cheap... you can wire everything back to a patch box and from there have it connect to your ADSL or cable modem.
I'm not sure what the costs are on actual fiber cable, but it's certainly not as cheap as CAT5. What's more, you would either need a NIC in your computer capable of accepting fiber (over $US300 I think) or you would need a Fiber-->CAT5 converter box at each point where fiber comes out of the wall. Those boxes aren't cheap either.
Really, it just comes down to this. If you want super-fast communication between your computers in your house, and are willing to pay a hefty premium, them fiber it is. But it's not going to make your Internet connection much faster. Your Internet connection will only every be as fast as whatever the Cable or DSL modem has going out... and that's usually a 10Mbs connection running at 2Mbs download max.
Personally... if you want scalability, I would just make sure that the CAT5 you string is high quality and has *all eight conductors*... that way it is good for Gigabit Ethernet... which is slowly coming down in price and is already more affordable than Fiber for LANs.
enjoy
The main issue here is that I, and everyone else, have a right to the freedom to express that Apple screwed up on their release, and we have a right to provide information as to how to take advantage of that screw-up, just as we have a right to convey any other information, or express any opinion.
How did Apple screw up exactly? The updater is functional. It updates your system from 10.0 to 10.1... exactly as advertised.
Making your installer mechanism easy to modify is a choice of the developers making it. Personally, if I was working on a project like that, I'd want to do exactly the same thing.
People payed for an update CD. Not a Full Install.
Modifying that CD if a breach of the EULA that you agree to when you break the seal (it also pops it down during the Install). Thus, telling other people through a popular website how to breach their EULA is also not cosher...
I really fail to understand how people find this so hard to take.
This really surprises me.
I'm surprised by the fact that people think Apple is wrong in this.
When you buy a $100 cubic-zirconium ring, and then take it home only to find out it's a real diamond... do you take it back? Yes. If you don't you're stealing.
Apple is selling an *upgrade* to an Operating System. People pay $20 for this upgrade. If those people turn around and modify it so that it's a Full Install... then they are getting a $100 product.
Is Apple getting the $80 they deserve from the people modifying their CDs? No. Therefore... those people are morally obligated to not do that.
Whether it's legal or not... I don't care, I assume it's not. However, it's morally wrong... so on those grounds, Apple certainly has a case.
There are actual products (Yamahas latest CDRW being one) being shipped with USB 2.0 now. So I don't think it's a bad move for Apple to start building it into their systems.
Try 10.1
it's safe to say that speed/responsiveness is no longer an issue.
That is why I mentioned the "Apollo" G4, which is slated to appear in the coming months from Motorola and break the 1GHz barrier. It's also a completely new revision of the G4, should have more AltiVec registers and an enhanced architecture for the IO (ie. DDR and/or HyperTransport support)
Oh, and the founder/creator of IEEE 1394, darn it I can't remember his name, said recently in a report on CNET that 1394b products will be shipping by the end of the year. So an Apple intro at MWSF in January, or Tokyo in February makes the most sense.
Yes, it's most likely that Apples next revision of hardware will include USB 2.0 and IEEE 1394b (Firewire 2.0?). However, 3.2Gbs is not the number.
The next step for Firewire is actually 800Mbs. 1.2Gbs, 2.8Gbs and 3.2Gbs speeds are possible with this new protocol though, given the use of copper and fiber for the physical connection.
What I find more interesting, though, is that the next revision of PowerMac should sport some form of DDR SDRAM... and either the new "Apollo" G4 at around 1.2GHz or the brand new 64bit capable G5! Both Bandwidth Hungry CPUs... that should give the P4 and Palomino (?) a run for their money.
RSN
The PowerMac G4 are actually fairly quiet for systems with a fan... of course, Cubes and iMacs and iBooks are fanless. The PowerBook does have a fan... it's not big, but you notice it when it turns on.
:) I have my Mac and PC hookup into a USB KVM box... so that's how I can get away with the extra distance. It also cleans up the rats nest under my desk a little.
Personally, I have a B&W G3 Mac Tower and a homebuilt (Duron) PC tower. I got so fed up with the noise from the dual fans in my PC that I stuck it in the closet beside my desk... it's much quieter now
And no, the PC is not any hotter than it was before beside my feet.
yeah... i was sitting behind you and Mr. Hubbard last year. Your demoes rocked over the Quicktime ones, especially the surprise one you had lined up for us. :)
Darn Slashbotters... never look past the 3rd post in a thread...
I hope I can find a way to WWDC this year, I've been lucky enough to go the past 3 years, but my "Student" status is fading away... and $US1500 is hard to swallow even with a good job.
I'm a little confused as to why this is being seen as a "new thing" for WWDC 2001 by you guys. Apple has had sessions at WWDC dealing with Darwin and the BSD core of MacOS X since they announced the Darwin strategy. So, this isn't really news...
That's not to say that this isn't significant for the BSD world though. WWDC is the main developer event for the Darwin project, more people will see Darwin and the other BSD bits of MacOS X at WWDC than at any other time in the year. Through MacOS X, Darwin and BSD are going to be "brought to the masses" like no BSD distribution has ever been before. This could be a very big deal, I think it would be really cool if more people from the traditional BSD and Linux communities came to WWDC and mingled with the the budding MacOS X developers.
There is potential for a powerful force to grow here...
in the latest "available" build (4k46) the XML .plist file for the Dock still includes all the options to set the orientation (left, right, top, bottom) and pinning (front, back, center) of the Dock. However, the ability to change it using the "Defaults" CLI hack has been taken away. I'm sure Apple will include these options in the final... otherwise it would be stupid to have them just sitting in the .plist file.
PPPoE support is in there, yup.
Current builds of OS X use SSH1 or 2 for Telnet access by default (you have to go turn on remote access and ftp in the "Sharing" preferences panel though, it's off by default). Hopefully, in light of the recent vulnerability found in SSH1, APple will simply use SSH2 exclusively to get around that hole.
I would go to MacWeek and check out the "PowerBook Diary" review... great series on the new Titanium 'Book.
They already have it figured out.
BareBones software "Software that doesn't Suck"
http://www.barebones.com
heheh
Darwin is a bunch of things actually... check out http://publicsource.apple.com Darwin is an Operating System: Available to download from Apple, Darwin is a functional operating system that runs on PPC and x86 (thoughx86 support is very minimal for now). It is based on the BSD-ish core of MacOS X and simply comprises all the BSD stuff in MacOS X, plus the MACH kernel, HFS, NetInfo, and a bunch of other Apple/Next technology. You are thinking of "Darwin Streaming Server". Which is the Open Source (APSL) version Apple's Quicktime Streaming Server. Server software that allows broadcasts of Quicktime content over the Internet. It can run on MacOS X/Darwin, WinNT/2000, Solaris, Linux, and FreeBSD I believe. There are other initiatives under the Darwin moniker as well... I suggest you go check'em out.
No silly... it means that you can install and run it on Darwin or MacOS X PB! (which is way cooler :) ) and eventually run X-apps within that environment.
:)
The guy doing the work for OS X and Darwin is on the Darwin mailing lists right now fielding bug reports and such. Fun to watch!
Oops... I worded that last post badly (in case I forgot my password... I'm Maktoo again)... I didn't mean that Apple has taken the 3rd party code out and released it into Darwin no... I meant Apple has taken out all 3rd Party source code (drivers mostly) from the inner workings of MacOS X PB that correlate to parts of Darwin. They have then released this "cleaned up" version of the Darwin Core of MacOS X in a binary distribution known as Darwin 1.2 However, as I said above... most of the changes that between Darwin 1.1 and 1.2 have been available to the Darwin community for many weeks thanks to the CVS system which keeps updates from the Darwin and Apple communities synched. The only CVS trees not synched regularly are the XNU trees and some others... I mentioned this above. thanks Chris (Maktoo)
This isn't really the case.
I recommend everyone here to join the Darwin-Users or Darwin-Dev mailing lists if they are interested.
If you read those mailing lists, you will understand that the vast majority of the code that is in the *CVS* repositories available for Darwin is exactly what the Apple employees are working on *right now*. IIRC the only directories that aren't synched daily are the "xnu" (kernel) trees. This is because many of the drivers that Apple has internally are 3rd party, and thus are not available to be released into the Open Source community.
What Apple has done with Darwin 1.2 is finally taken out and approved all the 3rd party code that was in OS X PB and released it into the Darwin community as a new Binary. The sources have actually been there almost since PB was released.
There is a wonderful amount of work being done on Darwin. Mainly focusing on getting it to boot/run on Intel and older PPC machines. There's also some work going into the X system.
Just to clarify one of things that was said in the original note... AGP and FireWire (and indeed AGP/USB) have nothing to do with each other. One (1394) is a bus designed specifically to transfer data from a huge variety of internal and external devices that can be daisy chained together. The other (AGP) is a standard meant for expansion cards that serve a very specific purpose (Graphics) and provides a very direct and large link to the CPU.
Because of these differences, I don't think this is a sign of Intel putting up another front against Firewire. It's simply what they see as the "next generation" after their AGP design tops out at 8x.
I'm somewhat disappointed that there will be *yet another* type of card out there. Luckily, it probably won't be out for at least 2 years... so we have time to enjoy what we have now and worry about this new thing when it shows up.
And as for the whole "1394 vs. USB 2" thing... god... we've gone over this so much. It's obvious that FireWire has a very strong foot hold right now... and USB 2 will still not be suitable for DV, so what's the problem? Judging buy the sheer number of companies now producing 1394 products, it's obviously not the licensing fees!
Actually, MacOS X Server *does not* support SMP systems. The Mach 2.x kernel that they used is very bad at figuring out what to do with more than one processor. :+)
;)
No, MacOS X will be where these machines will shine. They stressed at WWDC 99 that they would be building in very good SMP support into the MACH 3.0 (which is included in Darwin of course). This year there are a few sessions dedicated to the topic. I will be there.
Just to clear up the confusion and silly (read: funny)... MP means Multi-Processor.
Again, I'm not sure whether there is much point in Apple actually putting these machines up for sale. MacOS X should be an excellent OS for SMP applications, but MacOS 9 most definitely is NOT. I think if APple were to release these systems now it might lead to a little ridicule to the uselessness of the current/classic MacOS at using SMP. (Symmetric MP)
I will be there with notepad in hand!