He Blows Things Up So You Don't Have To

Red Wolf writes "Popular Science reports on what is possibly the world's coolest job. During his 19 years as a laboratory technician for Underwriters Laboratories, Chuck Cramer has set coffeemakers on fire, knocked computers off desks, short-circuited fans, and blown up everything from toasters to curling irons - all in the name of consumer safety."

Comments

Sheesh, all that..

[cenobita]

..and things like that still happen to those of us who buy the damned things!

"popular science reports"

[Barbarian]

Can't they write anything more extensive than this? This is basically the guy's portfolio for when he goes job hunting.

Re:"popular science reports"

[ClubStew]

Besides, why would he want to find another job?!

Re:"popular science reports"

[PetWolverine]

Can't they write anything more extensive than this?

Of course not; it's Popular Science. They write in-depth about some new fighter plane or bomber or tank or aircraft carrier with almost every single issue. When they find something actually interesting like this, they write a little blurb, 150 words or less, and stick it somewhere no one will find it unless, like me, they read magazines cover to cover. That's why I'm not going to renew my subscription. (A note for those who will inevitably wonder why I have a subscription: It wasn't always like that.)

Popular War Machines, maybe, or Popular Aggression--they don't deserve the title Popular Science any more.

Re:"popular science reports"

[whatch durrin]

While military research/application is usually on the cutting edge, I do agree that Popular Science tends to cover the subject a little much.

I grew up reading PS, and it's probably at least part of the reason I chose to study engineering. But reading it now, it's like watching one of those "gloss-over" shows on History Channel/TLC/Discovery. They tend to show the oooooh and aaaaaah pictures and provide very little scientific content.

Can anyone recommend a mag that still covers *cool* cutting edge products, while providing more in-depth science about the subject?

Re:"popular science reports"

[mink]

Scientific American?

Re:"popular science reports"

[SN74S181]

Did the email from warisnottheanswer.com say that today is the day to rag on Popular Science magazine?

Re:"popular science reports"

[PetWolverine]

No, the last year and a half worth of issues of Popular Science magazine said that. And they didn't really say today was the day, they just said to do it, and to not renew my subscription besides.

Re:"popular science reports"

[Taldo]

Let him. I want his job!

:)

Re:"popular science reports"

[afidel]

Scientific American is a good laymens science magazine, though they rarely cover products so much as actual advances in the sciences. Basically I think of it as the digest version of Nature =)

Re:"popular science reports"

[Xolotl]

Unfortunately, even SciAm has gone downhill compared to, say, ten years ago - the actual science content has been significantly reduced, with articles often being very superficial. And where are Mathematical Recreations, Amateur Scientist and other such features? They were inspirational. Now all we get are silly little aimed-at-12-year-olds explanations of how various things work; all well and good but no substitute for the previous content.

Re:"popular science reports"

[Eraser_]

New Scientist is where it's at. You have to get it shipped over from europe though, so it's slightly more expensive than the average magazine here (which are what, free? $1/issue with cover to cover ads?)

Re:"popular science reports"

[smokin_juan]

Can anyone recommend a mag that still covers *cool* cutting edge products, while providing more in-depth science about the subject?

Learn a new language and move out of the US.
During a recent trip trough Borders I passed the metaphysics, religion, political and historfiction sections, all of whose shelves were ready to buckle under the weight of pap. I was more than a little pissed when, upon arrival to the electronics/engineering/computer section, I found 80% of the shelves empty. Was it just that particular store? No, they're all like that.

For fucks sake man, what the hell is wrong with this place? Or is it that everything interesting and worthwhile falls under some fucking IP law with an NDA.

Re:"popular science reports"

[radio4fan]

New Scientist is where it's at.

I've (almost) stopped reading it after too many "digital - where the signal is converted into a stream of ones and zeros" type articles.

I will also often learn that males have XY sex chromosomes, and females XX, and that a light year is the time taken for light to travel in a year.

Still, the Last Word is often interesting and feedback is always +5 Funny.

Protect them from themselves?

[Anonymous Coward]

They're not protecting consumers from themselves, but rather from poor manufacturing.

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[jemnery]

Yeah, absolutely. Remember the old software cliche about "fool proof" systems...?

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[der_joachim]

They're not protecting consumers from themselves, but rather from poor manufacturing.

Not necessarily. People do stupid things all the time. If you drive a car while drunk, is it the car manufacturer's fault if you drive into a tree and are severely wounded? No. The same goes for household appliances. If a consumer is doing potentially dangerous things with his or her household applicances, it is (at least it should be) his or her own responsibility if something bad happens.

Unfortunately, these things happen all the time. In the netherlands, several thousands of such accidents are reported. Darwin would turn in his grave.

der Joachim

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[-brazil-]

Poor Manufacturing and consumer idiocy do overlap to some degree. Some mistakes are easy to make, and those shouldn't result in fatal (or any) accidents.

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[Anonymous Coward]

But how would any of that be prevented by Consumer Testing? This guy tests equipment to ensure that it isn't dangerous. He does not test it to see if idiots can kill themselves with it.[1] So he isn't protecting consumers from themselves, but he is protecting them from dangerous equipment.

Darwin would turn in his grave.

Actually he would probably be quite pleased. Idiots removing themselves removes bad genes, which in turn creates a stronger species. Which is why we have the Darwin Awards.

[1]: Actually, that may not be a bad idea. It would certainly cut down their numbers if we had structured testing where we ask idiots to hold the business end of a chainsaw and try to start it up..

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[The Tyro]

I disagree, but only slightly.

These guys not only protect from poor manufacturering... they're also in the idiot-proofing business.

Manufacturers these days have to take into account nearly every stupid, "hey guys, watch this!" scenario that anyone can do with a product.... and either improve it, or add a warning label (much of this is driven, of course, by our litigious society, and a cadre of personal injury lawyers happy to help).

As an example, I just got a little fire-truck, sit and scoot/walker thingie for my young son. It came with a bunch of stickers you could apply to it... but by far the largest sticker (already applied by the manufacturer) was the enormous trilingual warning label on the back. Man, was I relieved! After all, without that label I might have let him run the thing off the top of the steps or something. I can take a paternalistic lecture from somebody so Uber-1337 in their field that I have no chance of ever understanding it or reaching their level of expertise... but I wish they'd save the common sense hand-holding advice. Most people resent being treated like idiots, so I don't think I'm beyond the pale on this one.

These guys help the manufacturers... but they also help protect joe citizen who puts waaaay too damn many devices on the power strip (Hmmm... nobody HERE would be guilty of that, would they?)

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[Lumpy]

They're not protecting consumers from themselves, but rather from poor manufacturing.

then why is there a warning on my Girlfriends curling iron that states "Do not insert this appliance into any bodily orifices.. severe burns will result."

Sorry, but the UL listing requires warnings for the absolutely stupidest people... like toasters with warning to "do not use in a bathtub"

there is a large part of our population that has an IQ under 100.. (Almost all of them in marketing and sales departments.. ohhh it was a cheap shot but it felt sooo good!)

the UL protects the idiots from themselves by requiring certian warning labels.

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[radish]

Personally I like the iron which warns "do not iron clothes when on body". Then there's the peanut butter jar with "Warning: May contain nuts" and the ever popular warning on sleeping tablets "Warning: May cause drowsiness".

Most of the warnings are just the manufacturers covering their asses, and most can be directly referenced back to a specific litigation - the famous McDonalds hot coffee case. We have her to thank (whatever the merits or otherwise of that specific claim).

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[apdt]

there is a large part of our population that has an IQ under 100..

Would that be about 50% per chance?

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[nomadic]

Three words that everyone here has seen on way too many little packets:

DO NOT EAT.

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[Foochar]

The scary thing is that I know people that engage in the practice of body ironing (that is ironing the clothes they are wearing) on a regular basis...

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[FRiC]

Hmm, but the warning labels aren't always useless. Peanut butter can be fatal to people with peanut allergy, and it's not always obvious to people who don't eat peanut butter that the jar contains peanut butter.

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[Tackhead]

> Three words that everyone here has seen on way too many little packets:
>
>DO NOT EAT.

Knew a chick in high school who was anorexic. Can she sue the makers of silica gel for that?

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[balthan]

Yeah, no kidding. How likely is it that a jar of peanut butter, labeled "Peanut Butter" actually contians peanut butter? They should label those things better. I got fooled once. Man, that ruined my nachos...

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[clarkcox3]

... other than the fact that it says Peanut Butter on the label. If someone's too stupid to figure out that a jar marked "Peanut Butter" might contain peanuts, then they deserve to be removed from the gene pool. I, myself, am allergic to bee venom, and you can bet that if I opened a bottle marked "bee venom", and ate/drank it, it would be my own damn fault if I died

This is completely different from putting such a warning label on products that might contain peanuts, but isn't readily obvious. For example, plain M&M's can contain some peanut in the chocolate, I have no problem with a warning on plain M&M packets stating that they may contain peanuts, but I don't thing that such a label should be needed on peanut M&Ms

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[passion]

If you drive a car while drunk, is it the car manufacturer's fault if you drive into a tree and are severely wounded?

People would stop driving drunk if there was a massive explosive-backed spike aiming at them - embedded in the steering column. In fact, if all cars had this feature, we'd see much more polite drivers... while we're at it, make the body out of glass, and we'd see an end to road rage as we know it.

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[Stuart Gibson]

To quote George Carlin:

"Think of how stupid the average person is. Half of them are more stupid than that".

Goblin

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't ever try to overclock your coffee machine. Disaster will ensue!

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[cygnus]

Unfortunately, these things happen all the time. In the netherlands, several thousands of such accidents are reported. Darwin would turn in his grave.

why, did Darwin die from a household accident? :)

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[PetoskeyGuy]

"the UL protects the idiots from themselves by requiring certian warning labels."

No, those warning labels protect companies from the lawyers of idiots. Those aren't UL warning labels. People are so willing to look like idiots if they get that fat check. Some only get honorable mention

McDonalds learned - Remember, Coffee == HOT. I can almost see the next one: WARNING! French Fries - HOT! For oral use only. We'll have to see how the appeal comes out though. ;)

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[omeomi]

Actually we have McDonalds to thank...the lady wanted them to pay her medical bills. She only sued for millions when they refused.

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[Pinguu]

there is a large part of our population that has an IQ under 100
49.99% of the population have an IQ under 100 :)

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[IthnkImParanoid]

If you drive a car while drunk, is it the car manufacturer's fault if you drive into a tree and are severely wounded?

Why is the the person being drunk important? Do drunk people drive into trees in ways I couldn't? It seems a drunk driver plowing into a tree would do the same thing to the driver and to the car that a completely sober person being run off the road by another driver and plowing into a tree would do.

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[Thavius]

I love reading warning labels. It's amazing what poorly manufactured products will do. I mean, you think lawn-mower manufacturers would make blades that would cut grass effectively, but not cut off fingers when I stuck my hand underneath it while it was running. Black & Decker needs to figgure out how to make their blow-driers safe to use in the bathtub. And Mattel needs to manufacture those Superman capes better, so my kids can fly. I sure am glad the UL protects me from these poorly manufactured products. Now excuse me, I must go charge my cellphone battery in the microwave.

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[poot_rootbeer]

make the body out of glass, and we'd see an end to road rage as we know it.

You give people WAY to much credit.

Do you think the average road-raging asshole driver is thinking "I might get in an accident, but my car will take the damage for me so that's okay"?

People are stupid when they don't think through to the consequences of their actions. Making those consequences more grave isn't going to change the typical stupid person's behavior.

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[ncc74656]

Actually we have McDonalds to thank...the lady wanted them to pay her medical bills. She only sued for millions when they refused.

They only refused because she was a total dumbass and klutz. Putting a somewhat fragile container full of hot liquid between your legs is just stupid. Put it in a cup holder...that's why they're there.

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[omeomi]

You know, I've owned 3 cars over the last 8 years, and only the most recent one has cup holders...and I only got that about 3 months ago. Not all cars have cupholders, and McDonalds could have saved themselves millions, and probably coming off looking like nice folks by paying the $1000 or so for her medical bills.

Not that I think the lady deserved millions, or that we need warning labels telling us that hot coffee is, in fact, hot, but I don't think it's entirely the lady's fault.

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[PD]

Making coffee 50 degrees hotter than it had to be is what was stupid. The old lady deserved every penny that she won.

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[dustmote]

I agree on that, that's not a good place to put your coffee, but McDonalds had had several hundred complaints that the coffee did not need to be heated to a superheated solution, rendering it likely to explode scalding water all over someone when they added sugar or any other nucleation sites. They just didn't want to modify their equipment because it would have cost them extra. The woman had to have skin grafts over eighty percent of her thighs, and her lawyers sued for the price of one day's worth of coffee sales in the entire McDonalds' corporation. Not a huge hit, when you look at it that way.

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[Ethidium]

My favorite is "Warning: Knee pads do not protect areas of the body that they do not cover"

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[Elkman]

while we're at it, make the body out of glass, and we'd see an end to road rage as we know it.

We'd also see an end to make-out sessions on Lover's Lane as we know it.

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[CaseyB]

I always used this as the canonical silly idiot warning, until I found one in a package of beef jerky I bought. It's a more reasonable warning when it's actually packed in with food. And assuming that they manufacture and print only one model of gel packet for both food and electronics industries, it's not surprising to see the warning in the box for a new stereo.

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[SN74S181]

But you've failed to note that the proposed solution would kill those people.

It isn't simply a matter of changing their behavior. Eliminating them from the road would be fine, too.

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[Wateshay]

My all time favorite was the 5,000 degree heat gun used for stripping paint that came with the warning: "Do not use as a hair dryer"

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[HeyLaughingBoy]

If a consumer is doing potentially dangerous things with his or her household applicances, it is (at least it should be) his or her own responsibility if something bad happens.

Very true. But a large part of what UL does is protect the consumer from defectively designed devices that he is using properly. If I happen to have one hand on the fridge as I am putting a pot on the electric hotplate, I shouldn't get a shock (yes, this actually happened to me) because the hotplate isn't grounded properly.

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[amanpatelhotmail.com]

Think about this: If all vehicles were to travel at the exact speed and in the same direction, there would be no accidents at all.

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[Thud457]

"Remember the old software cliche about "fool proof" systems...?"

Yeah, I was wondering about that. So, much like the machines in "The Matrix", UL is helping to breed a perfect fool, correct?

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[Anonymous Coward]

"and a cadre of personal injury lawyers happy to help)"

Lawyers don't sue, the people that hire them do.

Their are some real scumbag lawyers out there, but they don't as a group deserve the bad wrap they've gotten. Your much more likely to get raped over and over by your auto mechanic, the IRS, Bestbuy, etc then by someone in a lawsuit.

Of course some lawsuits have changed the way business etc have to do business, but at the same time we all know how well businesses like to treat consumers.

Personally I'd rather have an unencumbered lawyer at my service so when some business screws me I have chance for recourse.

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[TobyWong]

Hey you've got my vote!

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[afidel]

Umm, THIRD DEGREE BURNS, we aren't talking a little hot here, we are talking beyond scalding. It's not like she's the only one, hundreds of people a year were injured due to McD's practices. They had settled with most of those other people but for some reason thought this nice old lady wasn't deserving despite the fact that she had to have skin grafts and spend a week in the hospital. McD's KNEW their coffee was too hot and yet was not going to post warnings or change their practices, which is exactly what punitive damages are for. Besides the reward was scaled back to under half a million, not chump change but nothing that McD's can't afford, the bad publicity probably cost them many times that, as it should have.

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[MxTxL]

but they also help protect joe citizen who puts waaaay too damn many devices on the power strip (Hmmm... nobody HERE would be guilty of that, would they?)

No, because everyone here uses devices that have freaking wall wort plugs. They are just not as efficient. It ends up taking three or four power strips daisy-chained together to put your three computers, two monitors, KVM switch, cable modem, router, hub, printer, scanner, sound equipment, fax, fridge, TV, VCR, Satellite Receiver, Tivo, and PS2.

(if anyone didn't notice, i was joking... for crissakes don't try putting all those devices on one wall plug... besides, if you've got that much equipment all in one place... move into a bigger apartment)

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[Billly Gates]

I do not think they burn that hot. If they did they would melt even steel. I put my hand under one briefly and it was hot but not sevrely hot.

However I would not put it under it for more then a few seconds. :-)

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[LudditeMind]

there is a large part of our population that has an IQ under 100..

Yep, half the population even. Go figure.

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[mpaque]

From a package of peanuts I got on Southwest Air:

"Caution: Contains peanuts"

AND

"This product processed in a facility which also processes peanuts."

*SIGH*

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[shadowbearer]

Saw one in a readers digest article a while back;

On a set of Japanese steak knives: "Do not insert into children."

Yeesh.

SB

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[AnotherShep]

It was an accident. I don't really think it was anybody's fault.

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[Michael O-P]

This if definately off-topic, but does that fire-truck scoot/walk thing have buttons to push that also make noise? My daughter recently got one of those, and it is freakin' loud! There's no volume control, not even the basic 2 setting "loud and louder" so I think I'll have to cover up the speaker with tape so my child isn't deaf by the time she's 2.

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[MegaFur]

Yes, but what if just once, *just once*, *for a moment*, I were careless? Then I might get dead. If you were careless even once, you might too.

What if your pregnant wife were in the car and you had to rush her to the hospital? Boy, that would suck, huh?

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[the-build-chicken]

Dude, friends don't let friends drink and cook toast.

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[Anonymous Coward]

At least it would rid the gene pool of a careless idiot.

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[Anonymous Coward]

>"there is a large part of our population that has an IQ under 100"

Er, I hate to break this to you, but by definition 50% of the population has an IQ under 100. Just like 50% of the population is below average. Sure that you're not one of them?

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[Sdrawcab]

Actually, seeing as how an IQ of 100 is by definition average, exactly half of all people have an IQ less than 100 (assuming the test well written). When I realized this, I understood American Popular Culture much better. Oh, and clever way of mentioning your girlfriend! Thats the /. equvilant of name dropping.

Re:Protect them from themselves?

[babyjohn_catchphrase]

Too bad I don't want to go the gay bar that my neighbour visits, huh? :)

Misleading subject

[Ignorant Aardvark]

"He blows things up so you don't have to"

What?! But I want to blow things up!

Re:Misleading subject

[Surak]

What?! But I want to blow things up!

This is Agent Smith. We've had our eye on you for sometime, Mr. Aardvark..

Re:Misleading subject

[Ignorant Aardvark]

Surak: As you can see, we've had our eye on you for some time now, Mr. Aardvark. It seems that you've been living two lives. In one life, you're Ben R. McIlwain, college-bound high school graduate, you have a social security number, you pay your taxes, and you help your mother carry out her garbage. The other life is lived in computers, where you go by the slashdot alias Ignorant Aardvark and are guilty of virtually every modding crime we have a law for. One of these lives has a future, and one of them does not. I'm going to be as forthcoming as I can be, Mr. Aardvark. You're here because we need your help. We know that you've been contacted by a certain individual, a man who calls himself Cowboyneal. Now whatever you think you know about this man is irrelevant. He is considered by many authorities to be the most dangerous poll option alive. My colleagues believe that I am wasting my time with you but I believe that you wish to do the right thing. We're willing to wipe the slate clean, give you a fresh start and all that we're asking in return is your cooperation in bringing a known terrorist to justice.

Ignorant Aardvark: Whoaa.

Re:Misleading subject

[don_carnage]

You can! We blow stuff up all the time.

Re:Misleading subject

[Tenebrious1]

What?! But I want to blow things up!

No, I want to mod! Yeah, Mr. Coffee is safe and reliable. Now, how can I make it brew in 1/3rd the time? Double the heating coils? Plug it into 220V? Pressurize the tank? Glue it to my Athlon processor?

What kind of world would it be if all devices were exactly what we wanted, creating no room for change nor desire to tinker?

Re:Misleading subject

[Taldo]

Oh godless.... why the hell don't I ever get mod points when I need them?

*still chuckling*

Re:Misleading subject

[furchin]

What?! But I want to blow things up!

I agree. In fact, the subject line might as well just say "He gets laid, so you don't have to."

They'll Never Stop Me.

[Flying-Cow-Man]

As much as these so-called "consumer safety" tests try, they'll never stop me blowing up my own appliances.

It's just too darn fun.

Re:They'll Never Stop Me.

[anshil]

As they say: You cannot make anything idiot-proof, because idiots are so ingenious.

Re:They'll Never Stop Me.

[Thrakkerzog]

One of my favorite lines from Mostly Harmless.

Re:They'll Never Stop Me.

[Trailer Trash]

Or: If you make something idiot-proof, they'll make a better idiot. Makes me think of Crab's record player (obscure reference).

Re:They'll Never Stop Me.

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed, idiot-proof is impossible. I've always taken a shine to the phrase "idiot resistant".

Re:They'll Never Stop Me.

[Anonymous Coward]

I happen to like music to smash phonographs with. Perhaps if Crab were to get a new record player, I'd finally get to hear one of my records to the end when I next visit him. He keeps bragging about his record players, but what good are they if they can't play my records?

Re:They'll Never Stop Me.

[shadowbearer]

"The best swordsman in the world doesn't fear the second best swordsman; he fears the worst swordsman, because he can't predict what the idiot might do."

Can't remember where I heard that...

SB

Coolset job along with...

[Manos Batsis]

game, food and condom testing. I think I will look for a generic "consumer goods tester" position... sould proove pretty cost effective BTW.

Re:Coolset job along with...

[PeteQC]

You know when it's written "Tested 11 times" on a condom box. Is it this guy who tested them?

So there is someone behind the madness, afterall..

[aerojad]

...and blown up everything from toasters to curling irons - all in the name of consumer safety.

So is it him we have to thank for the warning label on my paper shredder that indicates I shouldn't try and shread my tie while it's still around my neck?

Demolition Man...

[Noryungi]

Yes, that's the coolest job in the world.

As a matter of fact, this is the job I have always wanted, but I never realized it until today and this Slashdot article.

My day is now ruined. Heck, my entire life is ruined!

I hate you Slashdot, you, you... insensitive clod!

Re:Demolition Man...

[immerrath]

Actually, I think this might be the coolest job on the planet.....

Re:Demolition Man...

[MainframeKiller]

I know it's OT, but this (on the same site you linked to) reminded me of the goatse dude...

UL approval means less than it used to

[Markmarkmark]

IMHO, UL approval has gotten too regimented and isn't worth what it used to be worth. Now component makers get UL approval for their components (power supply, power cord, etc.) and then a manufacturer buys this component, uses it in some design that the folks at UL never even saw. Of course the manufacturer still slaps that UL logo right on the box.

Also, UL can be a bad thing for some manufacturers. Many national chains (Wal-Mart etc.) will not carry anything electrical if it doesn't have that UL logo. The testing costs money and takes time which can put small companies at a disadvantage. If your creation is so innovative that UL's quickie lab doesn't quite know what to make of this thing from a company they've never heard of, then it may take a long time (longer than your capital lasts) to get your new widget into national distribution.

Re:UL approval means less than it used to

[Surak]

Let's look at what you said backwards a bit shall we? You said:

Many national chains (Wal-Mart etc.) will not carry anything electrical if it doesn't have that UL logo. The testing costs money and takes time which can put small companies at a disadvantage. If your creation is so innovative that UL's quickie lab doesn't quite know what to make of this thing from a company they've never heard of, then it may take a long time (longer than your capital lasts) to get your new widget into national distribution.

But *before* that you said:

Now component makers get UL approval for their components (power supply, power cord, etc.) and then a manufacturer buys this component, uses it in some design that the folks at UL never even saw.

I think you just solved your own problem... :)

Re:UL approval means less than it used to

[Markmarkmark]

My intention was to highlight two different ways that UL "approval" has evolved to have unintended consequences. The two examples were based on different types of companies, the first assembling commodity products out of commonly available "off the shelf" components.

In my second example (a small company with an innovative new widget), I am positing that the widget in question is innovative enough that at least one critical electrical part won't be "off the shelf" and offered by a larger supplier who has already run the UL gauntlet, thus forcing the small company through the UL process (due to the "innovative" design of their product).

Re:UL approval means less than it used to

[Surak]

In my second example (a small company with an innovative new widget), I am positing that the widget in question is innovative enough that at least one critical electrical part won't be "off the shelf" and offered by a larger supplier who has already run the UL gauntlet, thus forcing the small company through the UL process (due to the "innovative" design of their product).

But any non-battery-powered electrical widget (and it's worthwhile to note here that devices that run strictly off of battery do not have to be UL listed, and I don't think that UL even tests these anyway) has to have a power cord or a power supply of some kind. Power supplies are relatively generic. Simply insert a UL-approved power supply, throw the UL sticker on the box near the power supply, and voila! No expensive testing process. Right? That's what you said bigger companies do, why not the little guys?

Re:UL approval means less than it used to

[theLOUDroom]

Also, UL can be a bad thing for some manufacturers. Many national chains (Wal-Mart etc.) will not carry anything electrical if it doesn't have that UL logo. The testing costs money and takes time which can put small companies at a disadvantage. If your creation is so innovative that UL's quickie lab doesn't quite know what to make of this thing from a company they've never heard of, then it may take a long time (longer than your capital lasts) to get your new widget into national distribution.

Yeah testing costs money, but really, how can you claim your product is safe if you don't test it? The solution is definately not to left people get away without having their products tested.

Product development these days, costs a lot of money. Testing is a necessary part of that develpoment. Think about it this way:

I walk into a store. There's a few automatic coffee pots there on the shelf. One is a band I've never heard of and isn't certified by anybody. The others are well-know brands and are all UL-listed. How the heck an I supposed to know what the story with your small company's product is? Maybe you didn't have the money to get it certified. Maybe you didn't care. Maybe it wouldn't pass, and is dangerous. There's no way for me as consumer to know which possibility it is.
You have to admit that, if I buy your product, I'm taking a gamble in terms of saftey. IMO testing is especially important for small/new companies, because they don't have an established reputation to rely on. I don't know you? I don't trust you. Proove to me that you give a @#$% about building a quality product. Every sticker on that box, is another name I already know, vouching for your product.


Now here's a general good tip on getting things tested:
Send someone to the lab where you're getting your product tested. If you don't do that, some labs will their time (and bill you for it).

Re:UL approval means less than it used to

[Anonymous Coward]

I hate to tell you but you're misinformed. I work at UL and heres a few things to note. If a power supply is listed by UL, that doesn't mean that the computer is listed. Companies can't put the UL mark on the case if the power supply is the only thing listed. UL looks for this and files lawsuits when it finds people are violating their terms.

I can't really speak to the injury that UL causes to small company's, but my opinion is that you need to have some outside party unbiasly testing your product. Also, turnaround is not so bad that it will prevent you from getting your product on the market.

Finally, your comment about battery powered devices not requiring the UL mark is flat out wrong. First of all, very few industry's "require" a UL mark, UL simply provides the mark so that consumers can trust a product. Secondly, UL not only lists the batteries that go into the devices, but also the devices that they go in. Products don't need to be plugged into the wall to be tested.

Hope this clears a few things up

Chris

Re:UL approval means less than it used to

[kongjie]

There is no such thing as "UL approval": UL basically uses three terms, none of which are "approved":

1. Listing

2. Recognition

3. Classification

"UL Listing" requires submission of the whole product to UL for testing. What you describe in your first paragraph is a product that uses UL-recognized components, but itself is not UL-listed, nor can it legally claim to be.

In regard to your second point, I personally know a tiny, one-man company who has submitted his product to UL, developed product testing routines and gotten the product UL-listed. It wasn't a nightmare at all.

Re:UL approval means less than it used to

[whatch durrin]

There are very specific rules for being able to say you met a UL standard or are UL compliant. Using UL approved materials or assemblies in your new, totally different overall assembly is not (necessarily**) one of them.

If you'll look at a product with the UL logo, there should be a File Number listed there with it. I'm looking at the bottom of my keyboard and see "E140034." If I go to the UL website and search by this file number, it brings up details on the component that was approved. If you see a UL logo with no File Number, something's probably wrong.

UL is very strict about using their logo and certifications on a product.

**I worked at a company that bought existing components (including the enclosure) to make motor control centers and PLC cabinets. We were UL "compliant" as long as we used a very specific set of standards handed to us by UL dictating what components we used and how we used them. UL also came and inspected our work occasionally to make sure it was up to snuff. We were not entitled to put a UL stamp on our finished product, however.

Re:UL approval means less than it used to

[Fredge]

If you can produce enough of your widgets to stock Walmart's shelves I'm guessing your widget is a large demand item and Underwriters won't dally in testing it.

Re:UL approval means less than it used to

[omeomi]

Huh, I tried looking up the number on my Microsoft Keyboard, and it says "No Match Found", so I look for a number on the radio on my desk...it doesn't have one. So, I look for a number on my Behringer mixer...it doesn't have one. So, I look for a number on my coffeepot, and it comes up with "No Match Found"...WTH? Apparently I'm a fire hazard...

Re:UL approval means less than it used to

[Arandir]

For those of you that don't know, Underwriter's Laboratories is a private company. It is not a government agency. It predates most regulatory agencies. It predates Consumer Reports. It predates Ralph Nader. It's a system that works. Once upon a time calling upon the government to pass a law was an act of LAST resort, not first resort as it is now. That's when UL started.

The UL label doesn't mean that the product cannot possibly cause harm. Rather it means that the product is safe when used in an appropriate fashion according to the directions. Unlike your assertion, the manufacturer cannot slap the UL logo on a product without UL's permission. That's why there's this little (r) next to the letters UL. Does this hurt the little guy? A little bit, but not nearly as much as a government regulation in the same circumstances. A UL label is voluntary. You can always wholesale your products through outlets other than Wal-Mart. But don't be surprised if no one wants to buy it. I certainly wouldn't buy a power saw without a UL label, would you?

Right now there's this big push to label food differently. People want to know if their tomatoes are organic (as opposed to inorganic), the milk doesn't have hormones, their steak wasn't irradiated, etc. But because calling upon the government is the first resort in this day and age, everyone is looking to the FDA or equivalent to provide these labels.

I wonder how a UL style private system of food testing and labelling would work instead. Currently when I see a label that says "organic" it's meaningless to me. Maybe the state I'm in has incredibly lax standards for organic. Maybe there's no regulations at all, so the producer just slapped their own label on it. Maybe there's really strict regulations that put the small family organic farms out of business. On the other hand, I would trust a food label that says "UL(r) certified organic".

Let's get the obvious out of the way

[Anonymous Coward]

1: Blow things up
2: ???
3: Profit!

In Soviet Russia, you don't blow up toasters.
Toasters blow YOU up.

Hey!

[Manos Batsis]

I am a coffeemaker you insensitive clod!

Re:Hey!

[Alien Being]

We're very sorry, Mr. DiMaggio.

Re:So there is someone behind the madness, afteral

[Anonymous Coward]

No, more like the warning label on arosol cans saying they are explosive. The interns get to do the grunt work, like putting a tie in a shredder. He gets to do the real demolition work.

How is that different than Slashdot mods?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh never mind, I didn't see the word "Up" in the headline on first read.

Servertest?

[richie2000]

This submission is part of his testing the PopSci server for the Slashdot effect. Beware of non-tested servers!

There is only one thing that could be better

[Anonymous Coward]

The only way his job could be better is if it were of the Cushy Government type.

Imagine:
-Get payed 3 times the going private sector rate
-Get to play with explosives
-Nobody checks your work
-Get to play with explosives
-Impossible to be fired
-Get to play with explosives
-Get to play with explosives using Government money!

Perhaps one final addition:
-Free blowjobs while on the job (heh, he blows stuff up on the job eh?)

a day in the life of chuck

[Anonymous Coward]

Chuck, we want you to test this cowbell. It's gonna see a lot of action and a lot of banging, so we want you to bang the hell out of this cowbell. We're counting on you, bang that cowbell!

blows things up

[Anonymous Coward]

I suppose this means he has lots of experience with running Windows 95 ;-)

More testing needed

[pen]

Would the testing help in this situation?

Re:More testing needed

[Anonymous Coward]

"It is understood the authority does not intend to take action against the contractor." ~ so much for accountability. Meanwhile, back at the White House ...

Re:More testing needed

[Ambient Sheep]

From that article:

The Scottish qualifications authority's powerful IBM Numa-Q computer "went up in smoke", according to insiders, when a contractor wired it directly into a high voltage three stage mains electricity supply instead of a normal 240 volt circuit.

Presumably they meant "three-phase"?

The simple but catastrophic error - akin to getting the wires the wrong way round in a household plug - caused a surge of power that "fried" the computer's sophisticated electronics.

Considering this article came from Education Guardian, I'm rather depressed about it. Presumably Arts Education only... :-(

Re:More testing needed

[Maserati]

Another quote:

The contractor responsible was not employed by either the authority or IBM.

So he just walked in off the street ?

Cool job

[hdparm]

Sounds like a cool way to make living.

I'm affraid though, that consumers won't ever be safe, unless Chuk's lab employ my son and few of his friends. Fresh thinking is always good.

Sounds like my flat mate!

[MrFredBloggs]

"...set coffeemakers on fire, knocked computers off desks, short-circuited fans, and blown up everything from toasters to curling irons..."

Re:Sounds like my flat mate!

[thynk]

Screw that - my kids have been doing this for free since they could walk. I think they get it from my side of the family.

Even Cooler Job

[occamboy]

I've got a buddy that tests jet engine failure modes. His group does things to engines that are mounted on BIG concrete blocks and set running at full throttle.

What kind of things do they do to engines? Well...

• firing assorted frozen birds from a cannon at 600 MPH into the engine to see what happens.
• Setting off explosive charges in the engine to make sure that the resulting blizzard of metal ejects out the back of the engine, rather than the sides, where it could wreck mayhem.

The results are filmed for analysis - unfortunately, the films are are confidential.

Re:Even Cooler Job

[Anonymous Coward]

I've always wondered what would happen if a person were sucked into one of those.

Guess it's something I'll be wondering for quite a while, unless I manage somehow to get a truly bizarre job,

Re:Even Cooler Job

[BigJim.fr]

The birds are thawed before being pneumatically propelled into the running engine. It simulates reality better as there are not that many frozen birds cruising up there...

Re:Even Cooler Job

[Anonymous Coward]

This reminds me of a great story I heard:

RollsRoyce developed a "gun" which could fire chickens (dead) at plane's windscreens for boewing to test on new designs etc. Anyway the Americans where working on a high speed train and waited to test the windscreens and having heard about this "gun" asking RR to send them one.

One receving it, they where alarmed at how many windows which they thought had been very safe shattered almost everytime. They send their results to RR and Boewing, asking what sorts of laminate glass was being used, as they couldn't believe all the planes here could withstands such a battering, and got the reply:

Deforst chickens first

Re:Even Cooler Job

[jridley]

There was a discovery channel special on the engineering behind the Boeing 777. It showed some high-speed footage of bird carcasses being neatly sliced into chicken steaks as they went through the turbine.

They did all kinds of crap to those engines. They wanted to prove that they were so much more safe than previous engines that two of them was actually safer than 3 or 4 of the existing types of engines (less large engines being more fuel efficient than more smaller engines).

Re:Even Cooler Job

[lendude]

How does one deforst a chicken?

Wait, on second thoughts there are some things a person shouldn't know...

Re:Even Cooler Job

[batkins]

Boy, would we be in trouble if mayhem got wrecked!

Re:Even Cooler Job

[Richard_at_work]

If the engine can survive a frozen bird, it can survive a live one. Thats why they use frozen birds.

Re:Even Cooler Job

[CrazyTalk]

This is an urban legend - I Worked with a number of RR employees at Oxford University in 1987, and this story was circulating around even then. Makes for a good story tho!

Re:Even Cooler Job

[Anonymous Coward]

Now they just need to make it so the *bird* can survive the engine!

Re:Even Cooler Job

[non]

'assorted frozen birds?'
assorted?. not that i've ever heard. chickens and turkeys probably. frozen, no, not at all.

there is a famous story involving the safety program for very high-speed trains in an unnamed european country. they speak to the americans about how they test turbines for use in commercial aircraft, and decide that they will use the same basic testing setup. they put the bird right through the windshield of the train _and_ through the driver's seat and embed it in a rack of equipment. they call to the US and inquire as to whether that outcome should be expected. they're told 'no.' they send a detailed description of the test program; the reply, 'defrost the bird.'

(heard from the head of testing for a large commercial jet enging program)

Re:Even Cooler Job

[Captain Large Face]

FYI: When I received the story, the manufacturer was stipulated as Rolls Royce from the UK.

Re:Even Cooler Job

[Zeriel]

This story is ridiculously old--I've heard variants where the original owner of the cannon is just about every aerospace company and gov't, and the stupid recipient of cannon is just about every aerospace company and gov't. =P

Re:Even Cooler Job

[bob_dinosaur]

Really? You personally know this Head of Testing?

Sorry mate, but I don't believe you. It's an ancient story. I first heard it best part of a decade ago, and in that version it was the Americans who were being idiots. Just goes to show, huh?

Re:Even Cooler Job

[MtViewGuy]

Actually, the films you mentioned are not as confidential as you think. I've seen movies of the Boeing 777 jet engines being subjected to some extreme tests, like firing dead (yet NOT frozen) chickens using an air-powered cannon at the front fan at speeds up to 300 mph and also deliberately damaging the front fan with small explosive charges to ensure the nacelle stays together in case of front fan failure.

It think it's likely nowadays that we may see the engine manufacturers subject the engine/nacelle combination to the type of destructive event caused by the impact of Man-Portable Air Defense (MANPAD) surface-to-air missile. They want to make sure the engine/nacelle combination will still maintain reasonable structural integrity even after impact from the warhead of a MANPAD missile so an airliner that has been attacked by a terrorist with a MANPAD missile can still fly on the remaining operating engine(s) and make a safe emergency landing.

Re:Even Cooler Job

[wfberg]

It think it's likely nowadays that we may see the engine manufacturers subject the engine/nacelle combination to the type of destructive event caused by the impact of Man-Portable Air Defense (MANPAD) surface-to-air missile. They want to make sure the engine/nacelle combination will still maintain reasonable structural integrity even after impact from the warhead of a MANPAD missile so an airliner that has been attacked by a terrorist with a MANPAD missile can still fly on the remaining operating engine(s) and make a safe emergency landing.


Great, so now we can't even use our MANPAD missiles (second amendment baby!) to shoot terrorist-hijacked airplanes out of the air in self-defense! Damn aircraft manufacturers, siding with the terrorists! ;-)

Re:Even Cooler Job

[lcsjk]

Misssspelling killed a good joke! And you got modded as "Informative" instead of funny! So far, the funniest part of your joke was spelling "Boewing" in a chicken joke.

This submission is a good "english class" quiz.
Can you find the 18 plus errors, including 9 misspelled words. Hint: missing pronunciation, mixed tense, missing words, grammatical mistakes.

I am going to put this one on the bulletin for the foreign graduate students to try and correct.

Re:Even Cooler Job

[Stuart Gibson]

I dunno, a frozen bird may shatter, whilst a thawed one, or at least one that has been well microwaved is more likely to gunge up the vital components.

Besides, it gets cold up in the sky, how do you know the birds aren't frozen?

Goblin

Re:Even Cooler Job

[Hal-9001]

The non-apocryphal version of the story is that Rolls Royce wanted to make the turbine blades of their jet engines out of ceramics, since ceramics can be stronger than metal at high temperature. However, because all ceramics (AFAIK) tend to be brittle, the turbine blades failed spectacularly at the bird test, shattering on impact and annihilating the rest of the engine.

Re:Even Cooler Job

[Anonymous Coward]

I worked in an engine test lab and we did spit a fan across the test cell floor one day ..

The tech were doing Idle to Full Thrust run ups which is basicly revving the engine from idle to full power and back quickly ...

Well the tech pulled it from idle to off... then to full power ...

KABOOM!!!!

Rattled a solid steel blast door a foot thick and all of the sensors attached to the engine went to -32767 .. which is dead in that system

"Control 4 this is the computer room. We've lost the sensors"
"No shit!"

Re:Even Cooler Job

[Anonymous Coward]

Trouble is, this would be a failure of the SAM, and we'd then need to develop a better Stinger in case a Bad Plane is SAM-resistant.

Re:Even Cooler Job

[non]

no, i know no such person. my father worked for pratt & whitney for most of his life and told me this story ages ago. i googled for the story and just couldn't find it.

my bad. i guess i should go work for the NY Times, huh?

Re:Even Cooler Job

[Anonymous Coward]

I've got a buddy that tests jet engine failure modes.
Yeah, I've got an imaginary friend too.

Re:Even Cooler Job

[Usquebaugh]

Probably an urban legend

But when the UK built some of their first jets they didn't know how to test for bird strikes.

The US had been using pnuematic cannons and chickens.

So the UK boffins built a cannon, set it to the required pressure, loaded the bird. Fire! One destroyed canopy. Try again same result. Not very reassuring for the new pilots.

Many irate phone calls to US later it was discovered that tahwing the chicken was a required step.

Re:Even Cooler Job

[jafuser]

Besides, it gets cold up in the sky, how do you know the birds aren't frozen?

I had quite a laugh when I originally mistakingly read this as:

Besides, it gets cold up in the sky, how do you know the chickens aren't frozen?

Re:Even Cooler Job

[shish]

I'd agree that it's americans being fools, but it tends to be [teller's home country] being clever and [teller's rival country] being stupid.

I vote we stop the anglo-american rivalry and just blame Iraq....

Re:Even Cooler Job

[Rich0]

I seriously doubt that anyone is going to successfully engineer a passenger airplane which is capable of defeating an anti-aircraft defense designed to destroy military aircraft.

If they do the technology would end up in the military, causing the development of evolved MANPADs capable of defeating the newer technology.

Re:Even Cooler Job

[el-spectre]

Or Canada...

Re:Even Cooler Job

[tenton]

When in doubt, hit Snopes

Re:Even Cooler Job

[MtViewGuy]

You're forgetting that today's military jet engines used on fighters are actually quite small engines. If it weren't for the afterburner unit these engines would at most generate 18,000-20,000 lb. of thrust!

The high-bypass engines used on today's jet airliners are physically very big engines. For example, the engines on the Boeing 777 are so big that the engine nacelle is the diameter of the 737 fuselage! At that physical size, an impact by a MANPAD missile would shut down the engine but the physical effect on the engine would be surprisingly low.

whoosh

[freedommatters]

what a great job. and to think i was suspended from science for a whole term in 1984 for lighting a gas tap... :)

Is it just me or

[edalytical]

is from toasters to curling irons not a very broad range of items, what's in between electric toothbrushes and can-openers.

Re:Suzuki Samurais

[thre5her]

Hmm... yet they still roll over and paralyze people in real life.

I can't speak for anyone else here

[3.5 stripes]

But I personally, don't ever have to blow anything up. It's usually accidental.

Re:I can't speak for anyone else here

[pizen]

He tried to kill me with a forklift!

OT, but is your sig in reference to the Fugitive Alien episode of MST3K?

Re:I can't speak for anyone else here

[3.5 stripes]

Yes, yes it is, one of my faves...

This is nothing

[Anonymous Coward]

But can you imagine... blowing up a Beowulf cluster?

Me too

[jabbadabbadoo]

I had a similar "job" when I was a kid and putting stuff in the microwave was my favorite.

An exploding bottle of coke unfortunately prompted my father to end the experiments.

Re:Enjoy it while it lasts chuck

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah! And then we'll get flying rocket cars and live on the moon eating out of tubes!

Unsatisfying story!

[tjensor]

I demand video of things been blown up!

Re:Unsatisfying story!

[Komarosu]

Letsblowitup.com is good enough for me!

Re:Unsatisfying story!

[Anonymous Coward]

Why isn't this (5:Informative) ?

Re:Unsatisfying story!

[tjensor]

This is why I love /.
Ask for movies of stuff been blown up, et voila!

Re:Unsatisfying story!

[sukotto]

ok

Exploding whale
It's dark, dreary, and splattered with whale meat.

Probably not the coolest

[Eric(b0mb)Dennis]

Sure, he gets to blow stuff up

But imagine the extensive safety reports he must have to write, combined with the countless testing/retesting of products...

I'd imagine it would get tedious, like just about any job

Re:Probably not the coolest

[gosand]

Sure, he gets to blow stuff up But imagine the extensive safety reports he must have to write, combined with the countless testing/retesting of products... I'd imagine it would get tedious, like just about any job

Yeah, like porn star. Man, I would hate to have either of those jobs! Yep - tedious, just like sitting in this cubicle.... Poor saps.

*SOB*

Nope.

[Czernobog]

The coolest job in the world is working as a Ferrari testing driver.
Driving their cars all day long and actually trying to make their engine explode.
And off course nothing could make you happier and sadder at the same time when that magnificent engine goes boom! and up in smoke, literally.

Re:Nope.

[CaseyB]

Again, I'm sure even that is somewhat less cool in real life. Driving all day? Unlikely. Probably more like drive for 2 laps, return to garage. Wait two hours for data to be downloaded, analyzed, and the engine to be tuned or tested. Repeat, for weeks on end.

Doing destructive testing like in the video is way too expensive, even for Ferrari, to do on a regular basis.

Real jobs are always less cool than you think.

Re:Nope.

[the idoru]

i vaguely recall reading an article in car & driver wherein the author tagged along with one of the guys who test-drives lamborginis. these are, of course, very expensive, hand-built cars. so, naturally, each one gets a test drive after build completion to make sure that everything is in working order and that it lives up to lamborgini's reputable performance expectations. of course, in order to test those performance expectations, one must drive the car very fast. apparently one portion of their quality assurance tests is that they drive the cars on the narrow, winding roads of rural italy around where the cars are built. i remember in the article how the author was a passenger in the car while the test driver was cruising down these roads at ~100 mph when all of a sudden a delapidated truck pulls out a few hundred yards in front of them. the author noted how this must have been a daily occurrence for the driver because he non-chalantly stood on the brake and heel-toed the car down until it was about 2 feet off the truck's back bumper.

so, yes, there are perhaps jobs as cool as or ever cooler than the guy who blows things up for a living.

Been there, done that ..... almost .....

[ajs318]

My last job involved a lot of testing work, since I was working for a company that made electronic control modules that went in larger items -- tractor transmision controls, gas boiler ignition / fan controls, and the like. Unfortunately, most of the stuff we made was just too well designed to pack up, and there were few spectacular failures. Maybe all the interesting stuff happened on the complete systems ..... we did once send out a batch of tractor gear controllers with the wrong firmware in them. Shortly after that we had to send a technician with a laptop and a programming lead. Shortly after that we had to send another technician with a USB-to-RS232 converter .....

Of course, sometimes the test equipment would give way instead! For "live" testing gas boilers, we had this contraption with a pump, expansion vessel and heat exchanger, allowing the boiler to heat water which was simply chucked down the drain {not much else you can do with it unfortunately .....} and occasionally it would leak big-style, or someone would forget to put the hose in the drain. Never got a decent gas leak though ..... although you could get some interesting smells! {I'm talking modern UK appliances with fan-assisted combustion here, so no CO by definition.}

We had surge test equipment for inducing high-voltage spikes onto the power lines of equipment ..... mains stuff {230V low-current} was never as interesting as automotive stuff {13.5V high-current} when it packed up. The latter would sometimes go on fire. The surge kit was also known to have deleterious effects on oscilloscope input preamps, but how else do you make sure that there really are noise pulses on the leads? Oh, and it used some really brain-dead software that refused to accept any filename longer than 8.3 characters, despite running on Windows 95 OSR2.

One product whose testing I missed was a 12kW electric water heater, which involved passing some 50-odd amps of current {approaching automotive levels and now with the added delights of sensible voltages as well!} through {very fat!} PCB tracks close to a copper tube filled with fast-moving water. As you probably can imagine, one bad connection on that contraption could have led to interesting results.

I don't miss the lousy wages they paid, though ..... nor the way they treated their workers .....

Easy Money

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Set coffeemaker on fire.
2. Knock computers off desk.
3.?????
4.PROFIT!

I am the coolest job

[Eric(b0mb)Dennis]

Name Eric Dennis

Age 28

Job: During his 3 years at Condom Safety International, he has successfully tested over 300 different types of condoms.

Workplace: CSI's testing facility is in Las Vegas, Nevada. A typical day might have Eric testing upwards of 20 different experimental types of condoms in various orifices.

Current project: From behind the plexiglass window, Eric spreads a young 20-something who was brought in from the northern parts of Africa to test how well experimental 'shocking' condoms hold up inside rigid women.

Critical tool: He has one, and only one. He grooms and lotions this tool every day, keeping it ready for new use. He also takes a daily supplement of viagra for vitality

Greatest challenge: With so many women, STD testing is a must, but sometimes they slip up.. Eric has had over 150 STDs to date, and still recovering from a bout of the clap.

Final word: "Sometimes we'll break on average of 10-15 condoms a day, it's all about the combination of materials combined with the ability to keep sensation intact. We're a watchdog for the people, trying to protect them from themselves.

Re:I am the coolest job

[Anonymous Coward]

"Critical tool: He has one, and only one. He grooms and lotions this tool every day, keeping it ready for new use. He also takes a daily supplement of viagra for vitality"

Modded as informative for too much information?

Re:I am the coolest job

[Anonymous Coward]

Informative???!!!???
You have got to be kidding here, right?

Re:I am the coolest job

[Inode Jones]

Strangely enough, I have met the person who has this job, at least in Canada.

In Canada, condoms are medical devices, and are (at least back in 1988) regulated by the Bureau of Radiation and Medical Devices. The poor guy whose job it was to maintain rubber standards had his office in room 61A of the Health Protection Building (Building #7), Tunney's Pasture, Ottawa.

I got wind of this because that summer my job was to babysit two fax machines and a telex for the entire building. This guy slips a 20-page fax into my inbox, which I start sending... and reading. It turns out it was the testing procedure for condoms! Interesting reading...

(Test 20. If >1 leaks, fail the batch. If exactly one leaks, test another 20. Or something like that. Which goes to show that a condom alone is not adequate protection.)

And the tools used are 100% inorganic, sorry.

Re:I am the coolest job

[Anonymous Coward]

So you're telling me there's no real-world testing on these things before they go into the marketplace? Boy, that is so disappointing.

More interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

Was a story about a "Car stereo that can kill cat".

Re:More interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

A car stereo that can kill you. That's the title. Man it's bizzare.

Actually, there *is* a cooler job out there...

[GeckoFood]

Saw a news clip a while back about I guy whose job it is to push performance cars to the point where they blow their engines. I watched him blow the hood off a Ferrari -- all that white smoke pouring out of the engine of this candy-apple red flashmobile was cool. And he did it by just crazy driving on a closed course.

Blowing things up? I think that runs a very close second to stressing sports cars by driving them to breakdown. Sure, the explosions are cool, but you can't drive a blender...

Re:Actually, there *is* a cooler job out there...

[3.5 stripes]

How hard is that?

1. Get in car.
2. Start car
3. Leave in first
4. Push accelerator to floor
5. Wait

Or, for a more fun one

1. Get in car
2. Start car
3. Accelerate up to 100mph
4. Downshift into first
5. Repeat as necessary

Re:Actually, there *is* a cooler job out there...

[anshil]

The coolest job I want to have is the guy that is responsible in Jenifer Lopez videos, having her impassioned through the whole video taking sequence. (Yes they do that, since an impassioned women just looks a lot more sexy).

Re:Actually, there *is* a cooler job out there...

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly what do you mean by "impassioned"? ;)

Re:Actually, there *is* a cooler job out there...

[Anonymous Coward]

That isn't cooler than fucking chicks for a living

Re:Enjoy it while it lasts chuck

[Anonymous Coward]

Not a bloody chance - you think all these companies are going to put up with something that'll essentially make them obsolete because nothing ever breaks?

What's more likely is that they'll use nanotech to make sure it breaks down seconds after the warranty expires rather than the normal hours or days...

Information Request

[zr-rifle]

A guy called "Osama" wants to send his CV.

More suitable employee

[Hackie_Chan]

I think he should hire Monica Lewinsky as an intern. She has a lot of experience in blowing.

Strange . . . .

[LazloToth]

My parents never seemed to feel safe when I was blowing things up.

Thank you Osama!

[Anonymous Coward]

For helping us analyze the safety of high-rise buildings.

So...

[Zog The Undeniable]

Why *do* they still make toasters that are capable of burning the toast on the highest setting?

Re:So...

[Anonymous Coward]

... and they do so even when set to the lowest setting, sigh.

Re:So...

[ScuzzMonkey]

Some of us like burnt toast.

(In memory of my grandfather, whose face I will always see whenever I smell the smell of bread heated to the point of combustion, as I would wake to those fumes wafting through the house every summer I stayed with him in my youth)

Re:Oh, come on...

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok Mods, go ahead and rate the Beowulf clusters funny, and mod comments already at score 0 as overrated, when they make valid points about the lack of ANYTHING in this article. That's what you're there for.

Time for a new poll!

[mblase]

World's coolest job?

• Blowing consumer products up
• Blowing old buildings up
• Blowing Microsoft computers up
• Blowing NPCs up
• CowboyNeal blows me down

Re:Time for a new poll!

[Anonymous Coward]

Getting blown.

Re:Time for a new poll!

[Anonymous Coward]

Nah...the coolest job isn't blowing *NPCs* up (whatever they are, I have no clue), but blowing
*APCs* up (Armoured Personell Carriers, those baby tanks that the Army uses to make soldiers feel better about the RBG that's pointed at them).

Errata: RBG stands for Really Big Gun.

Re:Time for a new poll!

[SEEDELS]

*cough*non-playable-characters*cough*

Re:Time for a new poll!

[Anonymous Coward]

Try non-player character.

Re:Time for a new poll!

[QaDeS]

Blowing Microsoft computers up

"Do not try to blow the Microsoft computer up. That is impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth."

"What truth?"

"That there is no Microsoft computer."

Re:Time for a new poll!

[SEEDELS]

Er... that too... um, yeah *turns red* I swear I'm down and 'jiggy' with it!... yo.

Re:Ferrari testing

[stiggle]

You mean like this one? [www.siliconhell.com/video/]

Maybe...

[mraymer]

...he's just doing his part to prevent the Rise of the Machines since he felt burned by the Matrix Reloaded?

does it include...

[rexguo]

testing the effects of putting mobile phones near your cranium? i sure don't want my brains to blow up someday after excessive exposure to GSM microwave radiation...

Doesn't work that way in real life

[Art Tatum]

When I was 10 or so, some friends and I decided it would be cool to make a little blowtorch out of a cigarette lighter and an aerosol can of Lysol. It actually worked pretty well. Then we set a dumpster on fire. You wouldn't believe how well trash burns with a little outside help! Somehow, the Fire Department didn't buy the 'consumer safety' excuse, however...

comic book store guy would say...

[boomerny]

best...job...ever...

Re:Ferrari testing

[Czernobog]

Yep. That was exactly what I had in mind.

New Motto for the Consumer Safety Board

[engineerdude]

"That's privledged information. We could tell you, but then we'd have to blow you up."

Long lost twin?

[onthefenceman]

Doesn't that guy look exactly like the occupational hypno-therapist from Office Space?

Why not....

[chendo]

Why don't we put this guy out of a job?

If this guy is testing stuff so stupid people don't cause themselves bodily injury, why don't we remove warning labels and let the problem solve itself? :P

Re:Why not....

[aiabx]

What if your idiot brother-in-law blows up the house while you are in it? If idiots could only harm themselves, that would be fine. If they can harm us by buying uncertified gasoline-powered indoor grills, that's bad.

I have assumed for the purpose of the argument that you are not an idiot. If you are an idiot, did you know that indoor grills cook food even faster if you fill them with gasoline?
-aiabx

all in the name of consumer safety huh?

[IWantMoreSpamPlease]

Can he test Microsoft next?

Salary

[Bigby]

I wonder how much he gets paid. It can't be much because I would imagine that he is very replacable. Who wouldn't want to do this. All you have to do is think stupid and see how things go.

Re:Salary

[Anonymous Coward]

how replacable he is would most likely be summed up by how detailed the reports he would inevevitably have to write about his activities. Any idiot can blow stuff up, but not everyone is good at documenting and explaining what they did in great detail

Videos of things blowing up...

[don_carnage]

We started our website with just a couple of videos and now have over 80 -- enjoy!

Another cool job...

[ClubStew]

While doing testing on a former project from a company I used to work for, I was actually paid to look up pr0n! It was to test our Internet filtering software and, of course, we had to test when wasn't configured "right". That was another cool job!

I interviewed with UL once...

[rhkaloge]

...but unfortunatly, I had a master degree. They told me "as an engineer with UL, you will be responsible for desiging specs for various customers, then providing the lab techs with the procedures to test those specs". I said "but I wanna be a lab tech, not write reports all day!" I didn't get the job...

George Takei

[generic-man]

This guy's job sure sounds fun, but it's nothing compared to the $200 million Trimount Studios blockbuster film "Blow'd Up." Oh, my!

My great uncle had a better job at REI

[Neuticle]

- My great uncle Cal used to be the lead engineer for REI. He was responsible for testing all the equipment. Lab equipment was used to test things like the breaking force of carabiners, but a lot of the time he tested stuff in the field i.e. go backpacking or mountaineering with some new gear and abuse the hell out of it. In the attempt to push things to the limit, he often came up with crazy ways to test things, e.g. one time he set up a tent, affixed it to the top of his car and hit the highway to simulate 70mph winds on the tent.

CNN did a spot on him a few years ago before he retired (I need to dig up that tape), profiling him and his job. He invented a few climbing gadgets (I can't remember which now) and improved many others, climbed a load of mountains with some of the more famous mountaineers, and got paid to play outside. Now THAT's a cool job. Last time I talked to him (`02) he was still backcountry skiing out to yurts. He's in his 70s.

(Needless to say: our family's co-op numbers were LOW)

Yeah yeah

[Anonymous Coward]

Heard it all before.

Re:Yeah yeah

[Ambient Sheep]

So Snopes admit that people have used both thawed AND frozen chickens in the past, yet totally refuse to believe that there might be any merit in the story whatsoever?

He's already saved the life of one person

[shanmonster]

His line of work recently saved the life of a would-be murder victim. Check it out: http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/2304602/detail.htm l

Re:He's already saved the life of one person

[Anonymous Coward]

I prefer real links. It's that what the web is supposed to be about?

Re:He's already saved the life of one person

[BillX]

Mwahahaha! Murderer tried to electrocute someone with a GFCI (ground-fault interrupter) outlet.

He's not DOING a very good job

[Anonymous Coward]

.

He's not DOING a very good job. I've had a "UL" listed powersupply start its wires afire from a bad floppy. I've had a Antec True430 pop, fizz, and smoke!, sending the machine to coma and my UPS to lala land (dimmed madly, made odd noises). If I weren't there to pull the plug I hate to think what would have happened that time.

It's really, really freaky to have FIRES inside a computer case. What the fsck!

Whereelsew^Hcouldtheylive

[Anonymous Coward]

Who else WOULD live in a country called the Netherlands? Those who aren't wanted anywhere else, that's who.

Actually, the world's best test job is...

[panurge]

I once sat on the plane next to the guy who was the quality manager for a large hotel franchise. Yes, he really did get to travel round every exotic location in the world, frequently with family, to test to the limit the facilities, service, you name it. (during the flight he benchmarked the entire cabin crew, pointed out the one that would get promotion and the one who was heading for the DCM - interesting stuff.)

He said that during the Gulf war he had visited more than one hotel which usually had a significant number of visitors from arab countries, and turned up unannounced late at night in full gear with four "wives" in tow to check that the current Middle Eastern situation wasn't adversely affecting the guest experience. I guess that the hours were long and the reports tedious but the compensations were interesting. (including hiring the actresses, I suspect.)

Used to do something similar...

[CharlieG]

I used to be in a slightly different branch of the field, and I knew a lot of the guys from UL when it was on Long Island

You know rugged "Mil-Spec" stuff is. You know how you see the terms "Tested to Mil-Std-810". Thats what I did. Now, this was more than 10 years ago, but I've seen how you can mount hard drives to survive being in a tank. I've seen films of what can go wrong if an external fuel tanl lets go on a Carrier Landing, and I've helped folks design stuff to survive this

BTW think about a computer in a tank. Your in battle, and another tank shoots at you, and ALMOST penetrates, say the turret. That BIG piece of steel if just been pounded big what is effectivly a HUGE hammmer. The computer that as mounted to it has to keep working, so you can return fire, and hopefully live to another day

Or, you mount your hard drive to the Space Shuttle, or to a Delta/Titan/etc. Do you have ANY idea how much those things shake? Not only by transmitted vibration, but by sheer NOISE. The noise alone will rip most consumer items apart

Some fun tests I saw films of? Let's say you have a door (Nuke reactor building). What happens if there is a tornado? A telephone pole can be picked up, and thrown against the door, narrow end first, at about 300 MPH. That door better hold. So you build a prototype, build a wall, and fire a telephone pole at the door at 300 mph, more than once

Other fun tests? Look up the term "Naval Heavyweight shock". Now imagine do that for a living

Re:Used to do something similar...

[Anonymous Coward]

So you build a prototype, build a wall, and fire a telephone pole at the door at 300 mph, more than once

My only question is... where do we get the video?

Re:Used to do something similar...

[multiplexo]

BTW think about a computer in a tank. Your in battle, and another tank shoots at you, and ALMOST penetrates, say the turret. That BIG piece of steel if just been pounded big what is effectivly a HUGE hammmer. The computer that as mounted to it has to keep working, so you can return fire, and hopefully live to another day


The most delicate item in tanks isn't the electronic gear, it's the crew. I had a TTS (tank thermal sight) system on an M60A3 blank out for five minutes once after my driver drove into a slit trench that had been covered by some grass. I was able to get the TTS back online by shutting it down and restarting it. Unfortunately my loader had two broken ribs, and took a little bit longer to get back online and I had a nice bruise on my chest from slamming into my M85 and the edge of the cupola.

Re:Used to do something similar...

[CharlieG]

Yep, it is the crew. The guys who test the electronics make sure of that. I can show you items that would have broken just because of the vibration during a road march, never mind combat. When we got done, it was rugged enough to take what gets dished out. As for improving the design of the crew? Talk to your choice of either the man upsairs, or Darwin

Charlie

Re:"Funny?"

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes. Probably because it is. :)

Are they accepting applications?

[pair-a-noyd]

I like breaking stuff, especially crap from Wally World/China..

Re:UL approval there's two types

[lcsjk]

The UL approval process has two parts. One is the Component Recognition program (UR), and the other is the Product Certification program (UL). Components which cannot be used except as part of an assembly cannot get a UL label, only a UR (printed backwards) label. Only your coffee pot, TV and other final products can be "certified". By using only components that have the UR label, a small company can have almost instant approval, and at very low cost. Certain components that have not been submitted to the recognition program, and especially those that connect to voltages greater than 40.2 volts, require very extensive testing in order to get full product certification. By the way, that is why we have so many power cord "bricks". By having the 120 VAC circuit outside the final product, be it a printer or laptop power supply, the "low voltage" product meets most UL (and most european CE) requirements.
I'm here today because that Underwriters approved fuse blew instead of me when, as a four old, I poked a wire in the socket. (Mommy said not to - so I did! I had to know how it worked! Now I'm a analog hardware design engineer)- surprised?

here's how I heard the story (with a moral, even)

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know if this story is true or not, but it has a great lesson in it.

I heard that the story happened at GE. They worked for years developing a type of plastic to be used in making fighter aircraft canopies. Millions of dollars in reasearch and they had the prototype. One of the last tests to be done on the canopy was to fire a (thawed) chicken at it from an air cannon. The canopy shattered, sending them back to the drawing board.

The moral of that story is "do the chicken test first". When you're developing prototypes of something, you'll have some tests which are pass/fail and some in which the prototypes are merely ranked according to the test results. Determine the pass/fail type tests and run them as early in the development cycle as you can. Then go ahead and run the rest of your battery of tests on those samples that passed the "chicken test". Saves money and time. I taught this in Enginering school for years; it seems to be self-evident, but you wouldn't believe the number of people who had never considered the concept.

UL-approved cheap extension cords

[ortholattice]

One thing I hate is a certain kind of cheap extension cord, I don't know if it has a name or brand, maybe it's a generic thing sold under different store brands. It works fine for some kinds of plugs that have a spring-like folded thin metal blades at the end, but it can be hell to get it to connect with the kind of plug that AC adapters and some appliances have with flat, thick metal blades. You have to do experiments bending the blades in or out to get them to connect. And then they tend to be intermittent. I believe they are a fire hazard because of this. Once I had one of them completely melt and fuse due to an intermittent connection to a heater (although no actual fire in my case).

Does anyone else know what I'm talking about, and had this experience? These cords are clearly labeled "UL-approved". I wonder what kind of testing was actually done.

Rooms

[Anne_Nonymous]

The Noisy Room,
The Fixture and Ballast Room
The Thrown Projectiles Room
The High Voltage Room

Do these guys know how to party, or what?

Re:"Funny?"

[Zirnike]

I think you're being overly critical.

Re:UL approval there's two types

[whatch durrin]

Now I'm a analog hardware design engineer.

Great! Any job openings there?

Re:Suzuki Samurais

[pbrammer]

I'm sorry? "...to the people in the car that you hit." That *I* hit? Fsck that.

How about the quote that says this: "Yeah, they're safe for the people in the SUV, but deadly to the people in the car that hit you." Yeah, well, that's too bad, I guess. Maybe they shouldn't have run that stop sign or red light. Or maybe they should've been paying attention to the road. Or maybe...

It's all subjective isn't it? This is exactly what lobby groups do. They spout off their own side of the story as I've done. I still haven't seen any empirical evidence that states SUV's are less SAFE than a passenger car. I'd take a rollover in and SUV over a Honda Civic anyday.

More stuff

[fireboy1919]

He was going to only work there for 15 years, but then Office Space came out...

His boss didn't want him getting any ideas about testing the soundness of the building.

There is also a standing memo warning passersby not to touch his stapler.

UL Testing Blows

[Anonymous Coward]

I am a mechanical engineer, and we send stuff out to UL all the time for testing. We maintain reports that are older than me. Half of UL testing is absolutely useless, engineers take into account 99% of all possible failure modes regardless of what UL has to say or blow up. Half the time a customer will not purchase a product unless they see that oh so conforting UL logo. Its like in that movie with Chris Farley....You can slap a guarentee on the side of a box just to make the customer feel safe, but you can't replace sound engineering. Alright so I modified the quote. This is Slashdot right? Thats what really costs money. I remember many a times, we'd send a report change to UL and they'd come back and charge us 10k just to do it. All without testing. The other half the time the customer does even care.

How many of you people actually check to see if a product is UL listed or UL recognized? and can actually tell the difference. What about your Class/Zone/Division differences? Anybody care?

The Hman

Hyperlink Agreement at ul.com

[Anonymous Coward]

https://www.ul.com/hyperlink.cfm

Hyperlink Agreement

In order to establish a hyperlink to the homepage of UL's Web site, you must accept and acknowledge the following terms and conditions:

You may only use the text and images provided by UL in the manner and locations specified by UL.

You shall update all images and text within 7 days after receipt of notice of any changes. UL may modify images and text at any time.

You acknowledge and agree that (i) UL's trademarks and name, including, but not limited to, the familiar "UL in a Circle" mark and "Underwriters Laboratories Inc." (collectively, the "Marks"), UL's Web site and its contents are and shall remain the sole property of UL; (ii) nothing in this Agreement shall give you any right of ownership in the Marks or UL's Web site; (iii) you shall not now, nor in the future, contest the validity of the Marks; and (iv) you shall not take any action that would impair the value or good will associated with the Marks or UL's image or reputation; you shall not use the Marks in any way that might be misleading including, without limitation, with respect to any goods or services not certified by UL.

Subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement, UL gives you a non-exclusive, limited license to use the Marks on your Web site solely for the purpose of providing a hyperlink to UL's Web site. You may not use the Marks for any other purpose whatsoever including the promotion, advertising or publicity of your Web site. Any link you establish must transfer the user directly to UL's Web site to enable viewing of the site as posted by UL without the imposition of any frames, browser windows or third-party content.

You shall not state or imply in any way that UL has endorsed you or your products, service or Web site, except that you may refer to your product's UL certification if it is so Listed, Classified or Recognized and in accordance with the Follow-Up Services Agreement.

UL reserves the right to terminate this Agreement with or without cause at any time. If UL terminates this Agreement, you shall remove any and all links to the UL Web site within twenty-four hours of receipt of notice from UL.

You agree to defend, indemnify and hold UL, its trustees, officers, employees and agents from and against any claims, demands, damages, causes of action, loss or judgments arising from your breach of this agreement or your hyperlink to UL's Web site.

YOU EXPRESSLY AGREE THAT THE USE OF UL'S MATERIALS, MARKS AND WEB SITE IS AT YOUR SOLE RISK. UL DOES NOT WARRANT THAT ITS SERVICE WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR FREE, UL PROVIDES THIS ACCESS "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND. UL DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED, TO THE IMPLIED WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. IN NO EVENT WILL UL BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, LOSS OF PROFIT, LOSS OF DATA, LOSS OF BUSINESS OR OTHER LOSS ARISING OUT OF OR RESULTING FROM THIS AGREEMENT OR THE USE OF ANY OF THE MATERIALS OR MARKS UNDER THIS AGREEMENT OR ACCESS TO ANY OF THE SERVICES DESCRIBED IN THIS AGREEMENT EVEN IF UL HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. THE FOREGOING SHALL APPLY REGARDLESS OF THE NEGLIGENCE OF UL AND REGARDLESS OF WHETHER SUCH LIABILITY IS FOUND IN CONTRACTS, NEGLIGENCE, TORT OR ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY.

Any notice required to be given hereunder shall be via electronic mail and shall be duly given on the date that appears on the electronic mail that was sent to the other party.

This Agreement shall be construed and enforced in accordance with substantive laws of the State of Illinois.

By selecting "ACCEPT" below, you hereby represent that you have the authority to enter into this agreement.

(required fields in bold)
-----
Does slashdot follow hem (did not bother to read as I am not gonna link to them).

anybody else remember Letterman's safety calls?

[SolemnDragon]

Dave Letterman would drop tv sets out windows, yes. And water coolers, office chairs or other equipment, whatever was handy. But by far the coolest Dave Letterman Destruction was the time when he called GE's consumer help line, and asked them what would happen if he put a bowl full of their light bulbs into one of their microwaves.

Dave: So, what do you think would happen?
(woman's voice): Umm.... we don't recommend that you do that, Sir....
Dave: But you don't know what would happen?
(Woman's Voice): Hold on, let me get my supervisor.
(Supervisor) : Hello?
Dave: Hi there! What would happen if we put a bowlful of your lightbulbs into one of your microwaves?

It was a fairly long conversation, with the GE fellow hemming and hawing and Dave asking questions such as, Will it blow up? Will the lightbulbs explode first, or the microwave?The supervisor finally said look, we can't be held responsible for anything that happens, because we're telling you not to, that's not an appropriate use of the equipment, etc... and then, with the GE supervisor still on the phone, Dave put them in and hit the start button, describing every step as he went. The microwave caught fire, i recall (i don't remember which blew up first) and the whole mess had to be put out with fire extinguishers. It was a nightmare for GE, they never lived it down. People were calling for months.

Re:anybody else remember Letterman's safety calls?

[Anonymous Coward]

It was a nightmare for GE, they never lived it down

Nah, they lived it down. I never heard of it.

Dot Org (sorta OT)

[robson]

From UL.com's "About" floater:

Underwriters Laboratories Inc. (UL) is an independent, not-for-profit product safety testing and certification organization. We have tested products for public safety for more than a century. Each year, more than 17 billion UL Marks are applied to products worldwide.

Okay, so... isn't this a textbook case for a .org TLD? It bugs me when organizations, for whatever reason, utilize .com when they should really be .org.

Departmental change

[Maktoo]

Personally. I think this should have gone in the "More-Bang-for-your-Buck" Dept.

But, to each their own. ;=)

In Soviet Russia...

[NineNine]

... they pay YOU to blow stuff up.

Oh wait, maybe they do that in RTP, too.

Re:"Funny?"

[Overly Critical Guy]

You're right. We haven't seen enough Agent Smith speeches posted to Slashdot, particularly ones where all they did was replace a few proper nouns to make it relevant to something. In this case, it was himself.

That is just comic genius and deserves instant modding into the stratosphere for the cleverness and wit required.

Testing template?

[UnknowingFool]

Like all tests, there has to be some sort of design. For example, toys for small children cannot have small parts that can detach and might cause choking. I wonder where he gets his ideas for test templates: Scientific research, common sense, industry standards, or does he scan the Darwin awards for winners and honorable mentions?

That reminds me of the good old days..

[twoslice]

I used to work for a clone manufacturer a long time ago who made IBM PC and AT clones. Every time we built a new model it had to go through CSA testing (Canadian version if UL). When we got them back I swear that some of them were still smoking. To top it all off we had to use working parts! If it did not boot it did not pass inspection.

Stop the misinformation

[Adam9]

Oh for god sakes. I thought everyone knew the truth about this by now. Here are some facts:

(Taken from http://lawandhelp.com/q298-2.htm)

McFact No. 1: For years, McDonald's had known they had a problem with the way they make their coffee - that their coffee was served much hotter (at least 20 degrees more so) than at other restaurants.

McFact No. 2: McDonald's knew its coffee sometimes caused serious injuries - more than 700 incidents of scalding coffee burns in the past decade have been settled by the Corporation - and yet they never so much as consulted a burn expert regarding the issue.

McFact No. 3: The woman involved in this infamous case suffered very serious injuries - third degree burns on her groin, thighs and buttocks that required skin grafts and a seven-day hospital stay.

McFact No. 4: The woman, an 81-year old former department store clerk who had never before filed suit against anyone, said she wouldn't have brought the lawsuit against McDonald's had the Corporation not dismissed her request for compensation for medical bills.

McFact No. 5: A McDonald's quality assurance manager testified in the case that the Corporation was aware of the risk of serving dangerously hot coffee and had no plans to either turn down the heat or to post warning about the possibility of severe burns, even though most customers wouldn't think it was possible.

McFact No. 6: After careful deliberation, the jury found McDonald's was liable because the facts were overwhelmingly against the company. When it came to the punitive damages, the jury found that McDonald's had engaged in willful, reckless, malicious, or wanton conduct, and rendered a punitive damage award of 2.7 million dollars. (The equivalent of just two days of coffee sales, McDonalds Corporation generates revenues in excess of 1.3 million dollars daily from the sale of its coffee, selling 1 billion cups each year.)

McFact No. 7: On appeal, a judge lowered the award to $480,000, a fact not widely publicized in the media.

Re:Stop the misinformation

[radish]

Hint - try actually reading before you start spouting. I am WELL AWARE of the details of this case, hence my comment:

whatever the merits or otherwise of that specific claim

In other words, whether the case was justified or not, it WAS directly responsible for the spate of over-the-top warnings like "Warning: Contents Hot".

Please point at ONE THING in my post which is "misinformation". Did I say the claim was too high? Did I even mention the amount involved? Did I say whether the claim was valid or not? No. Get your facts straight or keep your mouth shut.

Re:Stop the misinformation

[Adam9]

I was arguing that this case is different and that it wasn't won because of any "stupidity." The misinformation I was pointing to was when you pinned the blame for having all warning stickers on this one woman.

Re:Stop the misinformation

[ConceptJunkie]

So the judgement is saying McDonald's is negligent when 700 people are burned out of 10 BILLION cups of coffee?!

I dare you find another product that safe.

Your facts are not in dispute, but here are some others:

1. 700 injuries out of a billion makes McD's coffee safer than crossing the street, getting out of bed or going to the bathroom. How safe does it have to be to make the lawyers happy?

2. McDonald's sold their coffee that hot because that's how the customers want it. Otherwise, why waste the electricity?

3. It's unfortunate that this woman got hurt, but to blame McDonald's for selling her hot coffee is ludicrous. Anything is potentially dangerous and when you sell 10 billion of something, you can guarantee someone somewhere will manage to have something awful happen to them.

Regardless of the verdict, it was a stupid case. Life is dangerous, people get hurt. Why does there always have to be a scapegoat with deep pockets every time someone experiences so much as mild discomfort?

</rant>

Re:Stop the misinformation

[wuice]

Third degree burns are a little more than mildly discomforting.

Interview

[nocomment]

We have got to interview this guy!

Question 1> What what the coolest thing you ever got to blow up, and what were the results of that?

Question 2> What was the most dangerous thing you ever tested that made it to market?

yadda yadda...

So let me get this straight

[beavis88]

I buy a cup of coffee, made by running BOILING or near-boiling water through coffee grounds, and I get to sue someone when I spill it on myself?

I clearly understand that McDonald's coffee was hotter than others, that people had been burned by it before. But for fuck's sake people, it's MADE WITH BOILING WATER, it's SUPPOSED to be hot enough to burn you.

What's next? Cold pizza because we might burn the roof of our mouths on the cheese? Dry water because we might dump a glass in something electrical and zap ourselves?

Personal responsibility seems to be a dead concept in this country. Normally I am not remotely this much of an asshole, but goddammit, if you spill coffee on yourself, it is NOT the fault of the person who sold it to you.

Re:So let me get this straight

[WeblionX]

Dry water? Is that sort of like dehydrated water, except you don't add water?

Re:So let me get this straight

[Adam9]

Obviously, there are diferent degrees of burning. Let's put it into some perspective.

If you're walking down a grocery aisle and you see a sign that says "Slippery When Wet." Then you slip on the floor and break your tailbone because they glossed it over with some kind of oil.

It may be cheaper for them to make the floor shiny by using oil rather than some kind of cleaning product. That doesn't mean that they don't have any liability for people getting hurt.

Re:So let me get this straight

[Felinoid]

I'm still a bit supprised she got third degree burns needing skin grafts.
But I do know some medical and hay an 80 year old woman is going to burn pritty easly.

And my soup is wepons grade before I eat it becouse I'm more able to handle hot water.
Not that I'm gona poor hot coffee down my shorts. I'm crazy not stupid.

Actually...

[Grendel Drago]

Half of the people in the world are stupider than the median person. Then again, maybe Carlin figured his audience wouldn't know what a median is...

--grendel drago

Re:Actually...

[Stuart Gibson]

Yes, I know, sloppy terminology. If I'm using it in conversation I usually add a caveat of "assuming normal distribution", but then people look at me funny.

Goblin

Re:Actually...

[Anonymous Coward]

The median is an average. You must be stupid.

Re:Actually...

[_xeno_]

The mean is the average. The median is the number where half are less than and half are greater than. Therefore, by definition, half the people are stupider than the median stupidity level.

The other half know the difference between the mean, median, and mode, and post with a username.

Re:Actually...

[Anonymous Coward]

Half of the people in the world are stupider than the median person. Then again, maybe Carlin figured his audience wouldn't know what a median is...

Well, let me know when you find the median of however many billion people we have today.

Huge population + normal distribution (which IQ at least has): mean = median. The only discrepancy will be from the people who have IQs of EXACTLY 100.

If you go for the more nebulous "intelligence" (or stupidity), which isn't discrete, there are exactly 0 people with the mean value, so 50% would be lower. (assuming it's still normal, which it probably is)

but this is all moot, of course. It was a JOKE. Technicalities don't matter.

Re:Actually...

[delphi125]

The point the AC made was that the median is AN average, not THE average. There are also fault-tolerant ways of measuring averages. For calculating the mean income or wealth, it tends to be convenient to exclude bgates@microsoft.com. For multiple variables, the Mahanobilis distance can be used to detect outliers (which can then be discarded or given a lower weighting). At least you mentioned the mode (which is yet another 'average' - the most frequent occurrence) so perhaps you can be saved - but the AC was not incorrect (although just as rude as you).

Many UL certifications on power supplies are fake

[Animats]

There's a serious problem with fake UL certifications on power supplies from China. UL has been having U.S. Customs seize stuff that bears a fake UL mark, with 112 seizures last year, but that's only getting a small fraction of the junk. China seems to be the main country that forges the UL label, and UL is now requiring all UL labels on power supplies, cord sets, and surge suppressors on products manufactured in China bear hologram UL labels which are distributed through UL, not printed by the manufacturer.

UL has online certification search. Look up those E-numbers and make sure that they match the manufacturer info. Report phonies to UL and the Consumer Product Safety Commission. If you're in telecom or data center operations, it's definitely worth checking wall transformers against the database.

A power supply that passes UL testing will not catch fire if dead-shorted indefinitely. It will not catch fire due to a single-component failure. Some of the phonies will catch fire if merely loaded up to their rated load.

Some review site (ExtremeTech?) did a PC power supply review a few months back, and many of the power supplies wouldn't deliver their rated voltage at full load. Three of the power supplies caught fire. All the ones that passed were in the UL database. None of the ones that caught fire were.

That UL label really means something.

Awesome!

[Grendel Drago]

Wow, I never knew that my brand-X keyboard was made by "SOLID YEAR CO LTD", from "CHANGHWA HSIEN, TAIWAN".

One note: my keyboard, for instance, doesn't have a UL logo on it, but has a backwards "UR" (is it a backwards "LR"? the letters are smushed together). It's pretty interesting that I can actually look up the fire rating on my model...

--grendel drago

Re:here's how I heard the story (with a moral, eve

[Anonymous Coward]

The mostt accurate version I heard was RollsRoyce. They were developing a new turbine-engine, around about the same time the Corniche came out. The RB211 turbine used carbon-fiber fins, which were many times lighter than steel, yet kept the same rigidity. Rolls Royce put a lot of development money into the project.

All the efficiency tests were very promising, and they thought they had a winning design. At least, that was until they did the simulation of what would happen if a goose got sucked in. The resulting crunching sound was RollsRoyce, nearly coming to financial ruin.

Darn

[ocie]

I misread this as He (Helium) blows stuff up. I was all excited that someone had found a way to make helium explosive. Oh well.

Job Satisfaction

[RatBastard]

I have read in several places (can't remember where, sorry) and seen on several different TV shows, including the one about the family that implodes buildings and severl Discovery Channel shows on big machines, that people involved with demolotion have the highest job satisfaction ratings in the US.

A cooler job

[Tuxinatorium]

Hardware reviewer you get every piece of hardware you could possibly want for free and *don't* have to blow it up.

Cease and desist:

[Anonymous Coward]

Dear sir,

It has come to our attention that you have been posting the secret Bush re-election plan on an internet site known as slashdot. Be warned that the Republican party aggressively defends its copyright material. It would be wise of you to refrain from further illegal dissemination of this information,

yrs,
B. Z. Elbub,
chairman C.R.E.E.P.

I *DO* Shock Testing for the Navy

[Gadgetfreak]

I'm an engineer for the main nuclear submarine contractor in the US, and I work in the shock test department. While many items get tested by means of hitting a platform with a large hammer, the largest ones use explosives for shock. Watching all of these tests are pretty cool, but since it's all Military work, 98% of your time on the job is spent planning, doing reports, filling out paperwork, reading Mil-Specs and the like. It is neat, but not nearly as rewarding as many would think.

News flash...

[hprotagonist0]

there is a large part of our population that has an IQ under 100...

Half of US population has below average intelligence!

LOL

[Anonymous Coward]

Ye, yep yep. Well you see the problem for me is not just how hardy equipmen is (or frail), it's the feansu-wot-fvalt (roughly the idiotic-bastards-with no skills). Its: a two many things want to do to many things and how useable items are.

And the service recieved contract, being FORCED to sign a contract etc. etc.

I wan't a thing with no existance. For instance: Cellphones: small, and is a phone, only a phone.). Now I wan't a compitent company to create one, that is an acceptable price. I do not wan't a someone making one that is 300 USD, 8cm's/1/2cm fragile, and very breakable, with poor interface.

Re:I *DO* Shock Testing for the Navy

[CharlieG]

The "Hammer shock" tests are the Lightweight and MediumWeight shock tests - been there, done that. The one with the explosives is the heavyweight shock that I talked about in my first post

Your right about the paperwork

BTW I was involved with the ADCAP MK48s, various BRIs, and some periscope projects (retrofitting a replacement for the cable reels on the 688 boats)

Re:So there is someone behind the madness, afteral

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, I once had an unfortunate accident involving a tie & a paper shredder. Luckily, it was a clip-on.

A neat place to work...

[Talkischeap]

Back in the mid-70's my brother and I shared a house in Los Gatos, and for five years, he worked at UL Labs in Santa Clara.

At least twice a week he would come home with a wild tales of sparks, pops, smoke, fire, and an occasional small explosion when a big cap or some such went off during a test.

All the potentially destructive electrical testing took place in "The Transformer Room", a glass walled area with ventilators for smoke removal.

Whenever a test was going to take place, the personall were notified and most everyone wanted to watch because at times things failed in a spectacular way.

I was able to get a "tour" with my brother, and saw a test take place, but the test item only smoked, not even a small fire, oh well. The test item didn't pass by the way, insulation breakdown in a transformer.

All of my brothers stories made a believer out of me in the UL Listing. If a product doesn't have one, be wary. I'm not kidding, you just don't know what you are getting if it isn't UL listed, it may be hazardous to your health.

Consumer Safety

[mdielmann]

When I do it, it's in the name of Consumer Safety, too - namely, the removal thereof.

What's this guy do...

[Enrico Pulatzo]

when he gets frustrated?

Re:"Funny?"

[shadowbearer]

I agree, that one was hilarious. Yes, there are a lot of posts using that theme; but this one had was uniquely inventive. I loved the cowboy neal part.

Thanks Aardvark, I needed the laugh today.

SB

Re:Been there, done that ..... almost .....

[Mal-2]

---
Oh, and it used some really brain-dead software that refused to accept any filename longer than 8.3 characters, despite running on Windows 95 OSR2.
---

Mr. ajs318, we apolog~1 for any inconv~1 this may have caused you. Howeve~1, please see READ.ME for a comple~1 descri~1 of the workar~1 for this proble~1.

Thats Nothing

[Mooncaller]

One of my buddies performed destructive testing of Jet engines. Now thats a job!

Re:Dot Org MORE OT

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a self reinforcing cycle:
To the unwashed masses, the internet IS ".com". If they are not completely ignorant as to the existance of .net, .org etc., then they probably view them as inferior. The well meaning boss at a non-profit probably thinks this way too. So Jo Sixpack only ever sees .com, even on non-profits, and the prejudice is passed along.

And while I'm ranting, Who else gets pissed when corp. XYA hoards XYZ.org (and XYZ.anything) when they are a corp. and not a non-profit, and vice versa? It pretty much defeats the purpose of multiple TLDs, but it can lead to some intersting results. Remeber when PeTA idiots (non-profit) registered peta.com but not peta.org? Michael Doughney registered it for the parody People Eating Tasty Animals. Unfortunatly, PeTA won the judgemnet. Today, sites like whitehouse.org and gwbush.com are run by angry, unfunny liberals deliberatly mimicking similarly named sites while taking a contrary, often offensive viewpoint. How is it these sites get to stay up given precidence? If Doughney's case was tried today, would it have ended differently?
Stupid PeTA, I'm going to shoot 10000lbs of meat today and only cary 200lbs back to my wagon, just to SPITE them

You know you're a geek when...

[cortense]

He Blows Things Up So You Don't Have To

When you see "He" and you think "helium"...

Re:Many UL certifications on power supplies are fa

[evilviper]

And does HP get a UL rating on their Monitors and Laptops? If so, UL must be worthless... If not, boy should they ever.

hmm... a cool job?

[rune2]

Hey wouldn't it be cool to be CEO of a company who sues other companies claiming that they ripped off your product so that your share price will skyrocket and you'll make millions of dollars after finally selling the company? Oh wait...that's been done...

Enron and Anderson Consulting

[sbszine]

I don't think that a private company is necessarily more trustworthy than a public regulator. UL may be great (and are probably better than the FDA as you suggest), but for every UL there's an Anderson Consulting.

This, I think, is a really key problem with letting the market regulate itself. Some companies are as crooked and avaricious as the worst of politicians. At the moment said companies at least have to go through the tedious process of buying out politicians and then slowly watering down regulatory bodies into total uselessness.

I remember doing temp work at UL.

[Gldm]

Had some fun upgrading their computers a few years ago. Mostly early pentiums to P200s etc, new HDs and install NT, add ram, etc. This was back in 98 or so, they've probably upgraded again. Did about 10 machines per day on the night shift, I think with 6 of us we managed about 330 in a week.

I got to see some of the neat toys though. Like the really expensive robot that's programmed to open and close drawers all day till they break.

And the incredibly sophisticated TV implosion tester consisting of a bowling ball on a steel cable hung from the ceiling.