I think the wrong is accepting BitKeeper's generosity and then continuing to do things that attack the revenue model that keeps BitKeeper in business.
...
This is pretty basic don't-bite-the-hand-that-feeds-you stuff, and I'm sad that it came to this.
Say what? No one was ever interested in BitMover's generosity, least of all Linus or BitMover. Larry McVoy has repeatedly insisted that the free version of BitKeeper was part of their competitive advantage. That is no longer the case, and it's now a liability. So they're going to eventually discontinue it.
Tridge did not (a) accept BitKeeper's generosity nor (b) "attack". He was working on building a tool that would compete with free BitKeeper. I hope you don't think that anyone else did anything wrong.
What exactly do you think should have gone differently here?
There is no doubt Tridge is being cast as the villain in this piece.
Huh. I just don't get that. Sure, McVoy casts him the villain, but agreeing with McVoy means you assume reverse engineering is wrong.
I don't think many of NewsForge's readers are going to be anti-reverse engineering. Like Sanity says, McVoy appears to want patent-level protection of his work. He doesn't have patent-level protection of his work, whether that's because he doesn't hold patents or because Tridge lives somewhere safe.
I don't think McVoy is exactly a villain here either. He just needs to quit acting like he got taken advantage of. He was doing a service and now it's not worth it to him so he's stopped. Larry McVoy, quit your bitching for your business' sake. However well founded you think it is, it only makes you sound like an asshole.
Yes, he considered GNU Arch. Linus knows as much about OSS version control as anyone on the planet.
I believe the main problem with GNU Arch is that certain operations are way too slow, especially for a project the size of the kernel. Linus said in one of his emails that Monotone looked like the best contender, and the Monotone website says that they use an essentially different paradigm from Arch. Iduno what they might mean by that, but it might be another thing that won't fit for the Kernel with gnu arch.
So yeah, he considered it. There is definitely no OSS bitkeeper killer yet.
Frequently, the people that understand a work of art least of all are the people that created it in the first place. This game may very well suck, but that isn't because it's inherently a bad idea to adapt Godfather, and it isn't because Francis Ford Coppola would know how to do it correctly.
If they attempt to make this retroactive, I assure you that the world will come crashing down on the FSF.
Ditto if they attempt to murder strangers in public. Fortunately, neither will happen. If you are using a product under the GPL 2.0 license, then it is yours to use under the GPL 2.0 license.
If someone releases updates to a GPL 2.0 licensed product, but those updates are only available under the GPL 3.0, and you do not want to abide by the restrictions in the GPL 3.0, then you might be SOL for those updates. That's about the worst thing that can happen.
Laura DiDio is actually a moron. Many of the criticisms of Laura DiDio are dead on, whether or not she's being paid for her stupidity. Go look up anything she wrote or said about SCO, and see if you can keep a straight face.
She's right. This is true of all extremists. There are zealots for every platform that will criticize their perceived "opposition" without cause or understanding. There are Linux & Firefox zealots, Mac & Windows zealots, GameCube/PS2/XBox zealots, and some of them spew continuous bullshit.
Iduno. When I used Lunix, it was LinuxPPC and then (old) YellowDog, and workable RPMs were few and far between. When someone's gone through the trouble to set up autoconf, that shit always works. Leastaways it gave you intelligible and googleable errors.
So yeah, I used that for absolutely everything. Package management is great, but it never ever worked for me. Hell, I've busted Fink pretty badly several times. I'll happily admit that this may be due to my own stupidity, but if I'm too dumb for all those package managers, then I'm too dumb for package management. Right.
SO TYPICAL! You people insist on using meat-world analogies for bits when it just doesn't fit! It's more like Microfost is setting up a lemon-copier, like in TRON with that laser grid thing, and then they set up a lemon stand selling copies of your lemons. And they can't strip the tree bare.
They could however invent lemoranges based on your lemon tree, and then when people bought their lemoranges and wanted to transform them into lemorapples, they'd be S.O.L. That's the point of the GPL. To preserve the right to create lemorapples.
That's what they're talking about. Downloading some random application off the web and running/installing it with "LUA" privs. I haven't mixed up anything.
Installing software is an administrative task, not a user task. Software installation *should* require admin access.
Just one more example of MS not understanding the difference between administration and use.
No, no, no. You couldn't be more full of shit if you tried. In Linux, you can
./configure --prefix=$HOME
In OS X, you can
./configure --prefix=$HOME/Library
or leave your.apps in ~/Applications/. The whole point is to make it so that users can install applications without it installing spyware all over your system directories. Software installation shouldn't require admin privs. You should be able to do just about anything to your computer without effecting other users.
It's not like that at all. If he doesn't want to be effected by the screwups at his colo, he should have hosting at two different colos anyway. Hopefully one that doesn't host spammers.
Ok. Find some of the people you think he should have shared credit with, and see whether they felt that Al Gore's statement was dishonest. (And obviously it's self-serving. It'd be self-serving for him to claim such credit even if he personally invented TCP/IP.)
His mistake was in making his statement too easy to misinterpret. I believe he's admitted as much.
I can't name a colo that does have this problem, because I don't know any colo companies. However, I believe that I can safely say that there is at any given time at least one colo that is not on an RBL. Use it while your primary hosting provider is blacklisted.
180,210 IP addresses in total are included in the blacklist -- and all because of a few spam complaints that weren't dealt with quickly enough.
That's how it's supposed to work.
And on a broader front, are you really prepared to trust a company like Kelkea, Inc. (owners of MAPS) to decide what emails gets to you without really knowing how they operate and deal with resolution processes?
I think most RBL users do know.
When I finally got a hold of someone on Monday morning (not an easy task, mind you!), they told me that they are not open on the weekend, so it would have been *impossible* to resolve this issue quickly.
Or you could direct your mail via someone who doesn't host spammers. How long would it take you to do that?
I had already made several phone calls and emails to my co-location facility, and they told me they were doing their best to get a hold of someone there.
So, get a better colo. What you have described may or may not be messed up. If it's just a matter of "a few spam complaints that weren't dealt with quickly enough" then it may or may not be a good idea for MAPS to block 180,000 IPs. No way for us (or you!) to know. All you can do is get a colo that doesn't have this problem.
There is no Alan Greenspan to offset the economy with whatever adjustments.
Uh, yes there is. Blizzard may not have anyone as smart as Alan Greenspan, but they can tweak the market a billion different ways. They can make it easier to acquire raw goods, or harder to sell large quantities. Obviously.
What's wrong with the free version he already has? Does it require replacement?
I don't see this as a problem for the time being.
It's not a problem for the time being. However, they have to move off BK in the near future. At least some of the product is hosted at "bkbits", whatever that is. Also, I believe that the BK folks can revoke the free license for people that are already using it, making it illegal to use. They may also refuse to sell a commercial license to those people who have lost their free licenses.
So yeah, it requires replacement if the BK folks say it does, and the friction got significant enough that Linus wants to make it happen. Linus has tried to make it sound like he & Larry McEvoy (?) have amicably come to this agreement. That may be the case. Larry isn't getting anything out of his free version anymore, and Linus isn't Vivien Leigh. He doesn't want to depend on the kindness of strangers.
Did your grocery store ever offer you free bread and milk? Did they imply that this would be an ongoing offer? Was there ever a concern that your household was becoming dependant on that free bread and milk?
No, it's more like your grocery store was giving away free Boeing jet engines, while lower quality jet engines were freely available everywhere else, and you built an aircraft assembly line that depended on those higher quality jet engines and now... wait. No. Your analogy is stupid.
Slashdot Mirror
Tridge did not (a) accept BitKeeper's generosity nor (b) "attack". He was working on building a tool that would compete with free BitKeeper. I hope you don't think that anyone else did anything wrong.
What exactly do you think should have gone differently here?
I don't think many of NewsForge's readers are going to be anti-reverse engineering. Like Sanity says, McVoy appears to want patent-level protection of his work. He doesn't have patent-level protection of his work, whether that's because he doesn't hold patents or because Tridge lives somewhere safe.
I don't think McVoy is exactly a villain here either. He just needs to quit acting like he got taken advantage of. He was doing a service and now it's not worth it to him so he's stopped. Larry McVoy, quit your bitching for your business' sake. However well founded you think it is, it only makes you sound like an asshole.
Yes, he considered GNU Arch. Linus knows as much about OSS version control as anyone on the planet.
I believe the main problem with GNU Arch is that certain operations are way too slow, especially for a project the size of the kernel. Linus said in one of his emails that Monotone looked like the best contender, and the Monotone website says that they use an essentially different paradigm from Arch. Iduno what they might mean by that, but it might be another thing that won't fit for the Kernel with gnu arch.
So yeah, he considered it. There is definitely no OSS bitkeeper killer yet.
Frequently, the people that understand a work of art least of all are the people that created it in the first place. This game may very well suck, but that isn't because it's inherently a bad idea to adapt Godfather, and it isn't because Francis Ford Coppola would know how to do it correctly.
If they attempt to make this retroactive, I assure you that the world will come crashing down on the FSF.
Ditto if they attempt to murder strangers in public. Fortunately, neither will happen. If you are using a product under the GPL 2.0 license, then it is yours to use under the GPL 2.0 license.
If someone releases updates to a GPL 2.0 licensed product, but those updates are only available under the GPL 3.0, and you do not want to abide by the restrictions in the GPL 3.0, then you might be SOL for those updates. That's about the worst thing that can happen.
So chill out.
Iduno. When I used Lunix, it was LinuxPPC and then (old) YellowDog, and workable RPMs were few and far between. When someone's gone through the trouble to set up autoconf, that shit always works. Leastaways it gave you intelligible and googleable errors.
So yeah, I used that for absolutely everything. Package management is great, but it never ever worked for me. Hell, I've busted Fink pretty badly several times. I'll happily admit that this may be due to my own stupidity, but if I'm too dumb for all those package managers, then I'm too dumb for package management. Right.
SO TYPICAL! You people insist on using meat-world analogies for bits when it just doesn't fit! It's more like Microfost is setting up a lemon-copier, like in TRON with that laser grid thing, and then they set up a lemon stand selling copies of your lemons. And they can't strip the tree bare.
They could however invent lemoranges based on your lemon tree, and then when people bought their lemoranges and wanted to transform them into lemorapples, they'd be S.O.L. That's the point of the GPL. To preserve the right to create lemorapples.
That's what they're talking about. Downloading some random application off the web and running/installing it with "LUA" privs. I haven't mixed up anything.
Ok, then what MS is working on here is making sure that all applications work while being executed as arbitrary files in your home directory.
You're using different words for the same thing.
Huh. I meant that to point at the footnotes on this page.
I think I'm going to start a Linux distro and name it Weenis.
Mandriva sounds like a drag Carmen Miranda imposter.
I have been called Liberal, Conservative, Too Christian so far in theis subthread. I am just missing the God hater label :)
Iduno. I'll call you a belligerent jackass. Does that make you feel better?
It's not like that at all. If he doesn't want to be effected by the screwups at his colo, he should have hosting at two different colos anyway. Hopefully one that doesn't host spammers.
Ok. Find some of the people you think he should have shared credit with, and see whether they felt that Al Gore's statement was dishonest. (And obviously it's self-serving. It'd be self-serving for him to claim such credit even if he personally invented TCP/IP.)
His mistake was in making his statement too easy to misinterpret. I believe he's admitted as much.
I can't name a colo that does have this problem, because I don't know any colo companies. However, I believe that I can safely say that there is at any given time at least one colo that is not on an RBL. Use it while your primary hosting provider is blacklisted.
So yeah, it requires replacement if the BK folks say it does, and the friction got significant enough that Linus wants to make it happen. Linus has tried to make it sound like he & Larry McEvoy (?) have amicably come to this agreement. That may be the case. Larry isn't getting anything out of his free version anymore, and Linus isn't Vivien Leigh. He doesn't want to depend on the kindness of strangers.
Oh. I meant Humpty Dumpty-ish.
He does have an excellent point, though. Open Source programmers are not in the Marine Corps.
I didn't change what's in the article; the author did. This AC comment explains.