12dec0de's post is the first informed post Ive seen on the artistic license. to repeat his words: it is often said the GPL is too restrictive... this situation will show us what a more lenient license will produce. to embrace and extend Java MS will have to (1) re-implement Sun's VM and class libraries and (2) call it something other than Java. to embrace and extend Perl MS just has to call it something other than Perl. They can use the existing Perl code as a springboard just as used BSD's TCP/IP stack when Windows needed to get on the Internet in a big hurry.
Agree, but I would rather pay a monthly subscription fee than suffer advertising. And I do realize that all the web services I use would need 30-100 $/month from me to make up for the lost ad revenue. I think I'm in the minority here: most prefer zero-cost services.
Tim Berners-Lee is a masterful computerist/hacker/wizard but he is not a coder. Tim designed HTML and HTTP but except perhaps for some prototype code, he left the actual coding of Web servers and Web browswers to others. Point is, not all really cool computer persons like writing code, so "coder" is a poor name for "really cool computer person". "programmer" suffers from the same problem, but less so. In San Francisco, non-computer people tend to refer to computer people as "computer nerds". Friend of mine has "computer generalist" on his business card. In the privacy of my own thoughts and writings, I refer to myself as a "computerist".
when you go back, Lynx will return you to the right place (the place you were looking at, not the top of the document). And Slashdot (and most other sites I find worthwhile) are quite readable in Lynx.
a BSD license does indeed mean that MS could adopt/incorporate it. when the Net became a buzzword (1993) and MS needed to incorporate a TCP/IP stack into Windows, I read here once that they took the code from BSD's "Networking Release 2", which of course is under a BSD license.
Robert Chin writes of "people writing software for the betterment of society".
I asked RMS, in person, whether this was his objective, and he said no. His objective is that he and his friends can use software free of restrictions. The fact that pursuing this goal led to the betterment of society was, at least for RMS, a side-effect.
yeah, well the people in the SGML newsgroup say that the XML tags in an Office 2000 document cannot be processed by standard XML tools. how surprising.
The article says that Cygnus will release source code sometime in 2000 when IA-64 specs become publically available, suggesting that they have promised Intel not to release the source before that time. This is consonant with the GPL as long as they do not release binaries either. But then the work Cygnus will do till the source-code release is not after the bazaar development model since only employees of Cygnus will be doing it.
when I traceroute a slow connection, it is usually Mae West (a network-access point, a.k.a, peering point) that is the culprit. so I tend to believe that "raving of a fool".
Plan 9 is based on 3 ideas: all resources are files referred to by the same file-name-space; (2) a filesystem can be added to the file name space at an arbitrary point via the mount command; (3) the file name space is customizable on a per-process basis. The first 2 ideas come straight from Unix. The third idea seems to be a genuine advance, and Linux simply does *not* have it. in fact, to benefit from this third idea, you would probably have to rewrite most of Linux and its apps--it is not just something you can add to Linux-- and it really does seem like a good idea that should be included in all new serious operating systems from now on. especially in a networked environment, it confers a useful kind of flexibility. Plan 9 is not change for changes sake or change for the software-owners sake a la Microsoft and other software vendors. it is an honest attempt to improve the way people use computers.
in response to your first paragraph, ever heard of *Sun*? they used BSD as a springboard to the development of their first OS, SunOS. (later on they contracted with ATT for rights to use code from SysV.) they saved about a million dollars in OS devel costs during their startup stage by doing so. other Unix workstation vendors did the same thing. in 1993 or so, when MS needed to add a TCP/IP protocol stack to Windows, I heard from a reliable sounding source that they just copied the stack from the BSD sources, just like almost every other OS (with Linux being a notable exception) did. BSD code is used as the underlying OS for Oracle's (and some other company's) network computer. NeXTstep contains much BSD code (also code from the Mach project, which has a BSDish license.) in fact, BSD source code ended up in more proprietary OSes than any other large block of code.
there are so many people that want to create new programming languages, tho, that the ones that will get to see their creations widely adopted are those that are willing to distribute their code (compiler, interpreter, etc) under an open-source license. or so it seems to me.
of course, that was 5 or 6 years ago and the language could've grown since then. I'm not really interested in learning lots of little languages. would prefer to learn a few "broad-spectrum" ones.
this is what a lot of programmers said in the Sixties and Seventies: "it is okay to use 2-digit dates because by the time year 2000 rolls around, our company will have junk this silly program long since.
Bruce asked for suggestions on how honest people can cooperate on open-source development without nasty surprizes; and you've got to clutter up the discussion with a pathetic attempt to cheat owners of proprietary software. sigh. it is not like *alternatives*to*proprietary*software do not exist. now stop cluttering up this discussion.
12 of his pals should invite him to a supper. while there they should refer to wine as blood and bread as flesh and introduce into the conversation the themes of transcendence and resurrection/rebirth. might work *grin*
Stallman never took classes at MIT: he has a bachelors in physics from Harvard. the environment on the 9th floor of 545 Tech Square was such that you did not even have to be an MIT student to hang out there.
Slashdot Mirror
12dec0de's post is the first informed post Ive seen on the artistic license. to repeat his words: it is often said the GPL is too restrictive ... this situation will show us what a more lenient license will produce.
to embrace and extend Java MS will have to (1) re-implement Sun's VM and class libraries and (2) call it something other than Java.
to embrace and extend Perl MS just has to call it something other than Perl. They can use the existing Perl code as a springboard just as used BSD's TCP/IP stack when Windows needed to get on the Internet in a big hurry.
Agree, but I would rather pay a monthly subscription fee than suffer advertising.
And I do realize that all the web services I use would need 30-100 $/month from me to make up for the lost ad revenue.
I think I'm in the minority here: most prefer zero-cost services.
Tim Berners-Lee is a masterful computerist/hacker/wizard but he is not a coder. Tim designed HTML and HTTP but except perhaps for some prototype code, he left the actual coding of Web servers and Web browswers to others. Point is, not all really cool computer persons like writing code, so "coder" is a poor name for "really cool computer person".
"programmer" suffers from the same problem, but less so.
In San Francisco, non-computer people tend to refer to computer people as "computer nerds". Friend of mine has "computer generalist" on his business card. In the privacy of my own thoughts and writings, I refer to myself as a "computerist".
when you go back, Lynx will return you to the right place (the place you were looking at, not the top of the document). And Slashdot (and most other sites I find worthwhile) are quite readable in Lynx.
a BSD license does indeed mean that MS could adopt/incorporate it. when the Net became a buzzword (1993) and MS needed to incorporate a TCP/IP stack into Windows, I read here once that they took the code from BSD's "Networking Release 2", which of course is under a BSD license.
Robert Chin writes of "people writing software for the betterment of society".
I asked RMS, in person, whether this was his objective, and he said no. His objective is that he and his friends can use software free of restrictions. The fact that pursuing this goal led to the betterment of society was, at least for RMS, a side-effect.
yeah, well the people in the SGML newsgroup say that the XML tags in an Office 2000 document cannot be processed by standard XML tools. how surprising.
PC makers do not pay $200 for Windows. More like $30-40, according to the recent Caldera Statement of Facts.
when IA-64 specs become publically available, suggesting that
they have promised Intel not to release the source before that time.
This is consonant with the GPL as long as they do not release binaries
either. But then the work Cygnus will do till the source-code release
is not after the bazaar development model since only employees of
Cygnus will be doing it.
Is that about right?
Linux 2.2 is more than a million lines of source, too.
Michael Milken was prohibited from selling junk bonds after his release from prison.
Linux kernel gets headlines and it's GPL.
when I traceroute a slow connection, it is usually Mae West (a network-access point, a.k.a, peering point) that is the culprit. so I tend to believe that "raving of a fool".
Plan 9 is based on 3 ideas: all resources are files referred to by the same file-name-space; (2) a filesystem can be added to the file name space at an arbitrary point via the mount command; (3) the file name space is customizable on a per-process basis.
The first 2 ideas come straight from Unix. The third idea seems to be a genuine advance, and Linux simply does *not* have it. in fact, to benefit from this third idea, you would probably have to rewrite most of Linux and its apps--it is not just something you can add to Linux-- and it really does seem like a good idea that should be included in all new serious operating systems from now on. especially in a networked environment, it confers a useful kind of flexibility. Plan 9 is not change for changes sake or change for the software-owners sake a la Microsoft and other software vendors. it is an honest attempt to improve the way people use computers.
easier to avoid zealots when not discussing Apple :)
your follow-up still contains false information, but I no longer feel like correcting you.
in response to your first paragraph, ever heard of *Sun*? they used BSD as a springboard to the development of their first OS, SunOS. (later on they contracted with ATT for rights to use code from SysV.) they saved about a million dollars in OS devel costs during their startup stage by doing so. other Unix workstation vendors did the same thing. in 1993 or so, when MS needed to add a TCP/IP protocol stack to Windows, I heard from a reliable sounding source that they just copied the stack from the BSD sources, just like almost every other OS (with Linux being a notable exception) did. BSD code is used as the underlying OS for Oracle's (and some other company's) network computer. NeXTstep contains much BSD code (also code from the Mach project, which has a BSDish license.) in fact, BSD source code ended up in more proprietary OSes than any other large block of code.
there are so many people that want to create new programming languages, tho, that the ones that will get to see their creations widely adopted are those that are willing to distribute their code (compiler, interpreter, etc) under an open-source license. or so it seems to me.
of course, that was 5 or 6 years ago and the language could've grown since then.
I'm not really interested in learning lots of little languages. would prefer to learn a few "broad-spectrum" ones.
I read the manual. it does not seem to have any *data structure* aside from strings.
oh. Thanks.
this is what a lot of programmers said in the Sixties and Seventies: "it is okay to use 2-digit dates because by the time year 2000 rolls around, our company will have junk this silly program long since.
Bruce asked for suggestions on how honest people can cooperate on open-source development without nasty surprizes; and you've got to clutter up the discussion with a pathetic attempt to cheat owners of proprietary software. sigh. it is not like *alternatives*to*proprietary*software do not exist. now stop cluttering up this discussion.
12 of his pals should invite him to a supper. while there they should refer to wine as blood and bread as flesh and introduce into the conversation the themes of transcendence and resurrection/rebirth. might work *grin*
Stallman never took classes at MIT: he has a bachelors in physics from Harvard.
the environment on the 9th floor of 545 Tech Square was such that you did not even have to be an MIT student to hang out there.