No I'm not. It's true that there is a point where we stop seeing single images and start seeing movement, and that rate is around 12fps, but saying that's the limit is grossly underestimating the power of the human visual system.
We're able to perceive temporal aliasing (that's when the screen refreshes the same image twice) at framerates above 60Hz just fine, because of the our visions hard wired-capability of detecting motion. It becomes confused when it sees objects suddenly move and then stop and move again, that we will actually perceive it moving backwards when it's actually standing still, since a smooth continuous motion is what's expected.
That's why you're seeing double when the camera is panning fast in the theatre. You're getting 24fps but the shutter flashes twice to avoid burning the film, and to lessen the strobe effect of a 24Hz flash, so you're seeing the same image twice.
Not everyone have noticed this, so I wouldn't be surprised if you haven't. I'm not even sure everyone is able to see it, but take a good look next time.
Phew, I'm getting OT here, but it really pushes my buttons when people start talking about the fps of the eye.
The objects will have to be smaller than a DCT square (16x16 pixels), before MPEG will really
start having trouble. How effectively motion vectors are used is largely dependent on how much
time was spent encoding the signal.
I'm not suggesting wavelets aren't superior, but
I seriously doubt the Australians' claim of 1:1000, at broadcast quality, unless they have a very different idea than I have about broadcast quality than I have.
Actually, our eyes don't have a fixed fps as so many of you nerdlings tend to think. There IS a limit to how rapid changes we are able to see, but they are very dependent on brightness. We have problems seeing dark changes that happen in tenths of a second, but noone will miss a bright flash even if it lasts 200ths of a second.
In normal lighting, 10-12fps is not even in the
same ballpark as our vision. 75 fps is more like it.
Suppose, for example that the camera is slowly panning across a static image. MPEG would see that as the *whole frame* differing from its predecessor, where a location-independent approach like fractal compression would still be able to take advantage of the redundancy.
No, MPEG would not. Do you think it was designed by a group of monkeys? MPEG would see this as a simple translation and code the correct motion vectors into the B-frames of the stream. There is more to MPEG than simple DCT blocks. You're talking about MJPEG.
The problem is finding the portion of Pi that matches.;)
And once you have that licked, the problem of storing and transmitting the terabyte-sized pointer to the correct pi-position that contains the data you want.:)
Python is no more transparent than a C program after a compile on the platform in question. Python only appears to be more portable because MS hasn't broken it yet.
I'm guessing Carmack used C as an example because shader-code is bound to be very low-level code.
Standards are standards, ANSI-C still compiles
on any decent compiler, and your comment is misplaced.
I've seen articles strikingly similar to this from
other Anoymous Cowards. Or as I suspect: The same anonymous coward.
Are you getting paid for spreading FUD like this? I will refrain from speculating from whom someone might get paid for writing articles like this in any slashdot forum that has something do to with Microsoft.
The beauty of free software and the gnu licence is that even if every linux-based company goes bankrupt, the code is there for everyone to enjoy.
Then, there's this very nice company called EpicGames. It created Unreal and Unreal Tournament (while trying to push Glide) and are now doing Unreal Warfare. These guys provide nice competition to ID Software and YES, they use Direct3D. Now take a modern computer with an NVIDIA card (chances are you already have one anyways) and play some Quake2 and Quake3...See the framerates ? OK... Now start up Unreal/UT, select D3D as the renderer and...do I really have to tell you how low will your FPS go ?
I really wish that people like you would stop talking about things you know nothing about. Unreal Tournament is limited by the CPU, not the graphics card because it uses a slow visibility-determination-scheme that favorizes its software renderer. Remember that UT is based on Unreal which was in development long before 3D Hardware came about.
It's NOT slow because of D3D, as the next version of the engine (where this issue is fixed) will prove.
1. The size of the rendered frames probably doesn't matter at all. A scene from the FF-movie is most likely bound by polygon-throughput and texture memory which has to be swapped in and out (a real performance killer that one). You'd probably get roughly the same performance in 640x480 as in 1600x1200 antialias or no antialias.
2. Renderman shader code implemented using pixel shaders? Hah, surely not in current hardware, and I doubt we'll see it for a few years at least, and by then Renderman will have moved on.
3. Of course, the lighting model is a lot more primitive in the real time version, and the card can't do all the nifty post-prosessing done in the movie.
All the macho marketing crap from Square and NVidia aside, this shows that graphics cards are able to give a pretty darn good preview of the finished frame in a very short time, which will be very valuable to animators when compositing and lighting scenes etc.
You should take a look at Red Faction. The game
is already out for Playstation2, but a demo is out for PC aswell.
It allows true random carnage to the worlds geometry, and it is something to behold. The most impressive part is how rocks collapse when the last support is blasted away.
The game itself looks and feels a bit like Half-Life, except it takes place on Mars, with the movie Total Recall as an obvious inspiration.
Just because something's in a PDF-file doesn't
make it gospel. That "article" without references, is an inaccurate, piece of fluff
with hardly any insight at all, and everyone here
knows it.
Everyone on the bridge aren't writing lengthy reports on the effects of tachion exposure on dilithium, nor are they writing letters home.
They're pulling slidebars to divert more power to the shields, and clicking through menus to select "evasive maneuver gamma 5" or marking checkboxes to isolate computer control to the bridge or whatever.
Oh I'm sure they have some sort of keyboard thingy for occations that require them, but they probably find them cumbersome, don't you think?:)
In my country we have a few ATMs with keyboards similar to these and although they might look cool and have few moving parts, they are just too sensitive, and as a result, people tend to mistype alot. I don't know about most people, but without the feel of the keys I'd have a hard time navigating a keyboard like that and would have to
resort to hunt and peck. The horror! The horror!
I don't care how Star Treky people might think it is. It actually isn't. Everything in Star Trek is high res touchscreens with GUI-interfaces. People in Star Trek do not spend hours on end typing stuff in, they dictate to the computer, that's why they don't need traditional keyboards.
Actually that's why your armpits and sweaty clothes stink. Fresh sweat doesn't stink. Of course there are some pheromones and whatnot included, but most of the nasty smell comes from the waste products of the bacteria feeding on our sweat. I wonder how these engineered bacteria will compete with the natural ones already present.
Also, I can't really see this as something we'd want to have. Whenever my clothes get drenched in sweat on scorching hot summer days I prefer changing them after a nice cold shower. I seriously doubt that any technical innovation will ever get me to cut back on personal hygene. Of course, there are a lot of stinkers out there who just don't care. I can see an application of this technology on them, for the benifit of the rest of us.
Apparently, realistic violence isn't allowed in German games.
Violence in games and movies are allowed, but it's illegal to advertise for them, and they have to be sold in specific adult-only stores (usually the same stores where you find hard core pornography).
This will of course cripple sales beyond the point of a german port, so as a result, most violent films released in Germany are heavily cut, and most games have green blood or none at all.
Swastikas, and other nazi symbolism are of course
strictly forbidden, but I've read somewhere that Gray Matter will be making a Swastika-free version for the german market.
That would take all the fun away from killing nazis if you ask me...
Come on people. We're producing enough information today to keep the entire globe occupied with archive digging. Important stuff, like science articles, great literary works, etc. will be preserved because they're always transferred to new media as it comes along. The rest of it is mostly crap no one would care a flying fig about in 2060. A penny for your thoughts.
Yeah, the screenshots are a bit dark, but xgamma -gamma 1.5 certainly helped a lot.
3) So, how much do people think that Apple paid nVidia for the whole "out on Apple first" deal?
Or was this APPLEs prize for kicking ATI out the door?
Actually, I think it's much simpler. MAC are easier to support early, compatiblilty wise. The first chips are very expensive because of poor yields, and Mac users are already quite used to pay big bucks foor overpriced hardware.:)
Glide is a low-level primitive and wretched API,
with the gutted feature set of a Voodoo1. It
has no future.
It _does_ have a past, but seeing that it's been
open sourced for quite a while now, and we're
still just seeing half-assed glide-wrappers
out there, which are focused on just supporting
certain games like Unreal Tournament, etc. It seems that hacker-interest for the API is pretty low.
It's too late for Glide to die with dignity, but for God's sake let it die!
In my country, Norway, they've been worried about
english influence since as long as I can remembered, and we're only 4,2 million people. Spanish is one of the five most spoken languages of the world, I don't think they have any reason to be worried. A penny for your thoughts.
The fact of the matter is that you want a card
with an open source driver, so that's what you buy.
Why can't it be that simple? When you suggest boycotting you turn this into a political agenda.
You want to punish NVidia because after all, every hardware make who isn't releasing open source drivers MUST be the spawn of satan, right?
NVidia isn't the only company out there keeping
their drivers closed, only the most successful, so you're basically punishing them for being the best.
It'd be much simpler to understand if there were no linux drivers for NVidia cards, like in the matter of the newer Logitech quickcams, but
in reality, NVidia has hands down the best
graphics card drivers out there.
It has it's own engine sporting a novel thing called Geo-Mod. Capable of real-time arbitrary geometry modification.
In other words: the ability to blast holes through walls with your rocket launcher.
This is definately a game to look out for.
Slashdot Mirror
No I'm not. It's true that there is a point where we stop seeing single images and start seeing movement, and that rate is around 12fps, but saying that's the limit is grossly underestimating the power of the human visual system.
We're able to perceive temporal aliasing (that's when the screen refreshes the same image twice) at framerates above 60Hz just fine, because of the our visions hard wired-capability of detecting motion. It becomes confused when it sees objects suddenly move and then stop and move again, that we will actually perceive it moving backwards when it's actually standing still, since a smooth continuous motion is what's expected.
That's why you're seeing double when the camera is panning fast in the theatre. You're getting 24fps but the shutter flashes twice to avoid burning the film, and to lessen the strobe effect of a 24Hz flash, so you're seeing the same image twice.
Not everyone have noticed this, so I wouldn't be surprised if you haven't. I'm not even sure everyone is able to see it, but take a good look next time.
Phew, I'm getting OT here, but it really pushes my buttons when people start talking about the fps of the eye.
The objects will have to be smaller than a DCT square (16x16 pixels), before MPEG will really
start having trouble. How effectively motion vectors are used is largely dependent on how much
time was spent encoding the signal.
I'm not suggesting wavelets aren't superior, but
I seriously doubt the Australians' claim of 1:1000, at broadcast quality, unless they have a very different idea than I have about broadcast quality than I have.
Maybe _your_ eyes are 10-12fps
Actually, our eyes don't have a fixed fps as so many of you nerdlings tend to think. There IS a limit to how rapid changes we are able to see, but they are very dependent on brightness. We have problems seeing dark changes that happen in tenths of a second, but noone will miss a bright flash even if it lasts 200ths of a second.
In normal lighting, 10-12fps is not even in the
same ballpark as our vision. 75 fps is more like it.
Suppose, for example that the camera is slowly panning across a static image. MPEG would see that as the *whole frame* differing from its predecessor, where a location-independent approach like fractal compression would still be able to take advantage of the redundancy.
No, MPEG would not. Do you think it was designed by a group of monkeys? MPEG would see this as a simple translation and code the correct motion vectors into the B-frames of the stream. There is more to MPEG than simple DCT blocks. You're talking about MJPEG.
The problem is finding the portion of Pi that matches. ;)
:)
And once you have that licked, the problem of storing and transmitting the terabyte-sized pointer to the correct pi-position that contains the data you want.
Python is no more transparent than a C program after a compile on the platform in question. Python only appears to be more portable because MS hasn't broken it yet.
I'm guessing Carmack used C as an example because shader-code is bound to be very low-level code.
Standards are standards, ANSI-C still compiles
on any decent compiler, and your comment is misplaced.
I've seen articles strikingly similar to this from other Anoymous Cowards. Or as I suspect: The same anonymous coward.
Are you getting paid for spreading FUD like this? I will refrain from speculating from whom someone might get paid for writing articles like this in any slashdot forum that has something do to with Microsoft.
The beauty of free software and the gnu licence is that even if every linux-based company goes bankrupt, the code is there for everyone to enjoy.
Linux isn't sick. Companies making money off it are. You're just spreading FUD, and you know it.
Then, there's this very nice company called EpicGames. It created Unreal and Unreal Tournament (while trying to push Glide) and are now doing Unreal Warfare. These guys provide nice competition to ID Software and YES, they use Direct3D. Now take a modern computer with an NVIDIA card (chances are you already have one anyways) and play some Quake2 and Quake3...See the framerates ? OK... Now start up Unreal/UT, select D3D as the renderer and...do I really have to tell you how low will your FPS go ?
I really wish that people like you would stop talking about things you know nothing about. Unreal Tournament is limited by the CPU, not the graphics card because it uses a slow visibility-determination-scheme that favorizes its software renderer. Remember that UT is based on Unreal which was in development long before 3D Hardware came about.
It's NOT slow because of D3D, as the next version of the engine (where this issue is fixed) will prove.
Even Carmack will tell you that.
1. The size of the rendered frames probably doesn't matter at all. A scene from the FF-movie is most likely bound by polygon-throughput and texture memory which has to be swapped in and out (a real performance killer that one). You'd probably get roughly the same performance in 640x480 as in 1600x1200 antialias or no antialias.
2. Renderman shader code implemented using pixel shaders? Hah, surely not in current hardware, and I doubt we'll see it for a few years at least, and by then Renderman will have moved on.
3. Of course, the lighting model is a lot more primitive in the real time version, and the card can't do all the nifty post-prosessing done in the movie.
All the macho marketing crap from Square and NVidia aside, this shows that graphics cards are able to give a pretty darn good preview of the finished frame in a very short time, which will be very valuable to animators when compositing and lighting scenes etc.
The future is now.
You should take a look at Red Faction. The game is already out for Playstation2, but a demo is out for PC aswell. It allows true random carnage to the worlds geometry, and it is something to behold. The most impressive part is how rocks collapse when the last support is blasted away.
The game itself looks and feels a bit like Half-Life, except it takes place on Mars, with the movie Total Recall as an obvious inspiration.
Just because something's in a PDF-file doesn't make it gospel. That "article" without references, is an inaccurate, piece of fluff with hardly any insight at all, and everyone here knows it.
Sheesh
Everyone on the bridge aren't writing lengthy reports on the effects of tachion exposure on dilithium, nor are they writing letters home.
:)
They're pulling slidebars to divert more power to the shields, and clicking through menus to select "evasive maneuver gamma 5" or marking checkboxes to isolate computer control to the bridge or whatever.
Oh I'm sure they have some sort of keyboard thingy for occations that require them, but they probably find them cumbersome, don't you think?
A penny for your thoughts.
In my country we have a few ATMs with keyboards similar to these and although they might look cool and have few moving parts, they are just too sensitive, and as a result, people tend to mistype alot. I don't know about most people, but without the feel of the keys I'd have a hard time navigating a keyboard like that and would have to resort to hunt and peck. The horror! The horror!
I don't care how Star Treky people might think it is. It actually isn't. Everything in Star Trek is high res touchscreens with GUI-interfaces. People in Star Trek do not spend hours on end typing stuff in, they dictate to the computer, that's why they don't need traditional keyboards.
A penny for your thoughts.
Actually that's why your armpits and sweaty clothes stink. Fresh sweat doesn't stink. Of course there are some pheromones and whatnot included, but most of the nasty smell comes from the waste products of the bacteria feeding on our sweat. I wonder how these engineered bacteria will compete with the natural ones already present.
Also, I can't really see this as something we'd want to have. Whenever my clothes get drenched in sweat on scorching hot summer days I prefer changing them after a nice cold shower. I seriously doubt that any technical innovation will ever get me to cut back on personal hygene. Of course, there are a lot of stinkers out there who just don't care. I can see an application of this technology on them, for the benifit of the rest of us.
A penny for your thoughts.
Apparently, realistic violence isn't allowed in German games.
Violence in games and movies are allowed, but it's illegal to advertise for them, and they have to be sold in specific adult-only stores (usually the same stores where you find hard core pornography). This will of course cripple sales beyond the point of a german port, so as a result, most violent films released in Germany are heavily cut, and most games have green blood or none at all.
Swastikas, and other nazi symbolism are of course strictly forbidden, but I've read somewhere that Gray Matter will be making a Swastika-free version for the german market.
That would take all the fun away from killing nazis if you ask me...
A penny for your thoughts.
If he had been the Comic Book Guy he would've known that an episode is no where near 30 minutes in length. More like 21-23 minutes. It varies.
A penny for your thoughts.
No one remembers that Wicked3D did this three years ago either.
A penny for your thoughts.
Come on people. We're producing enough information today to keep the entire globe occupied with archive digging. Important stuff, like science articles, great literary works, etc. will be preserved because they're always transferred to new media as it comes along. The rest of it is mostly crap no one would care a flying fig about in 2060.
A penny for your thoughts.
3) So, how much do people think that Apple paid nVidia for the whole "out on Apple first" deal? Or was this APPLEs prize for kicking ATI out the door?
:)
Actually, I think it's much simpler. MAC are easier to support early, compatiblilty wise. The first chips are very expensive because of poor yields, and Mac users are already quite used to pay big bucks foor overpriced hardware.
A penny for your thoughts.
Glide is a low-level primitive and wretched API, with the gutted feature set of a Voodoo1. It has no future.
It _does_ have a past, but seeing that it's been open sourced for quite a while now, and we're still just seeing half-assed glide-wrappers out there, which are focused on just supporting certain games like Unreal Tournament, etc. It seems that hacker-interest for the API is pretty low.
It's too late for Glide to die with dignity, but for God's sake let it die!
A penny for your thoughts.
In my country, Norway, they've been worried about english influence since as long as I can remembered, and we're only 4,2 million people. Spanish is one of the five most spoken languages of the world, I don't think they have any reason to be worried.
A penny for your thoughts.
The fact of the matter is that you want a card with an open source driver, so that's what you buy.
Why can't it be that simple? When you suggest boycotting you turn this into a political agenda. You want to punish NVidia because after all, every hardware make who isn't releasing open source drivers MUST be the spawn of satan, right?
NVidia isn't the only company out there keeping their drivers closed, only the most successful, so you're basically punishing them for being the best.
It'd be much simpler to understand if there were no linux drivers for NVidia cards, like in the matter of the newer Logitech quickcams, but in reality, NVidia has hands down the best graphics card drivers out there.
A penny for your thoughts.
Hmmm... Red Faction is using the Lithtech Engine, I believe
you believe wrong. Red Faction has an in-house engine. No One Lives Forever, however, uses the LithTech engine.
A penny for your thoughts.
It has it's own engine sporting a novel thing called Geo-Mod. Capable of real-time arbitrary geometry modification.
In other words: the ability to blast holes through walls with your rocket launcher. This is definately a game to look out for.
A penny for your thoughts.