Doing the silly thing of answering to myself, I should add that I get what you said (parent misunderstood the library), but I still disagree with it being an atomsend.
It so just happens that people develop for platform X because of reasons Y. In this case, there is one reason: popularity and third-party support / enforcing. So, a logical diagram shows that for one to stop having to develop for platform X, then reason Y has to stop existing. This means that for us to stop developing for IE, it has to stop being supported, used and enforced.
So, the next question is: How do we do it? One of the possible (and probably *smartest*) answers is: let it die, or don't allow your websites to use it. Nevertheless, saying that "This isn't for people that use IE, it's for people that develop websites for I" ends up being redundant and, IMO, silly, as I just logically demonstrated.
Well, the thing is that.NET 2 worked alright. All the new crapware (for you: wonderthing;)) after that has lead apps to not being run and the appdb to get more bad ratings. It pisses me off to see so many languages out there and watch everyone choose something as non-portable as.NET. Mono has a high degree compatibility level with.NET2, not with the rest, so it isn't portable to make apps for.NET2. It might be more portable to use winelib to enhance them.
Heck, I'd even prefer if they used Java! At least that way, I'd know it'd probably run, as long as they didn't do Windows voodoo with it.
But, sure, I understand that it is good framework for windows developers. It's the "windows" part of that sentence that turns my "windows-alike basher-thingy" on.
That's true, I agree with you fully. I also have to add that it isn't always the software that makes it be that fluctuating, but the hardware. Different hardware configurations, particularly related to gfx, end up messing appdb. But I've seen progress and the new policy is amazing.
I agree with you in the way that a developer shouldn't be rude, arrogant, condescending or a liar. That's because nobody should be like that. I don't, however, think that a developer should support the program if it is such a large scale program such as Wine. It's not MS's developers that support it, its the support department;)
I would like to know where "However it is not a friendly compatibility layer that you install and suddenly Windows apps can be run just like on Windows with ease" came from. My experiences with the Wine community are not like that. Maybe in a year or two there was a forum member that seemed a bit arrogant, but I realized that he helped everyone and supplied links for the most basic of things.
Furthermore, if you're not going to be a "moderate hacker" or a "console output finder", what are you running UNIX for?
Re:No people complain when you over claim
on
Wine 1.2 Released
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
"So that's why people get mad. Wine shouldn't be marketed as a Windows compatibility layer. Wine is more of an experimental program that can help some Windows software run sometimes"
How-so? What the hell were you thinking to say that? I understand all your other points and agree to a certain degree with most, but I can't see why Wine isn't a windows compatibility layer. It is an implementation of the Windows API so it is also a compatibility layer. Much like MONO is to.NET. I suppose that, following that logic, if a Javascript implementation has glitches on your specific pages (not standardized ones), then it mustn't be considered a "Javascript compatiblity layer / implementation".
Also, the people at Wine never advertised it as something that "just works" or something that "runs xx% of all apps". They are very nice people who help out when they can, and I'm proud to be able to talk to some of them. What they have achieved it far more than what we will all probably do. Have you browsed through Wine's source? That's amazing, giant, somewhat organized and a true work of art.
"However it is not a friendly compatibility layer that you install and suddenly Windows apps can be run just like on Windows with ease." Yes, that one is mostly true. The thing is that Wine is the implementation. If you want user-friendliness, then get CrossOver, WineDoors, WineSkin or other apps. Besides, when I first arrived at Linux, my Ubuntu came with Wine (or I instaled it...). I only had the need to mess with Wine's insides about 2 years later. Until then, it ran most of my apps (some of them comple), with a simple point-and-click thing.
Re:people still use wine?
on
Wine 1.2 Released
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
No. From what I've seen, Wine has acquired more and more users recently. You can clearly see that based on forum activity or even commit numbers.
Virtual Machines are slow, no matter what. They require a windows license and they suck when it comes to D3D and even OpenGL. Wine fixes that. It is POSIX-compatible, AFAIK, and it is an excellent study case. It helps people migrate to differet OS/es and it doesn't eat up half your RAM just to launch a crapload of services that come in your typical Windows installation. I've tried both things: VMs and Wine. Once I saw how faster Wine was, and how it never crashed my system, in contrast to the many BSODs I got with games in the VM (direct accelaration enabled), I never looked back.
Also, I like being able to quirk with Wine's code. If I don't like something in an app, I debug it and change Wine to have fun. I can't do that in a VM unless I recompile some core libs (or port Wine's to Windows), but that would be stupid.
Re:Never Works Properly
on
Wine 1.2 Released
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
I've used Wine for a long time. I've modified its source-code several times to make my apps run and I'm usually around the winehq.org forums. I can say with a high degree of confidence that it runs most applications flawlessly. Of course, you need to remove many of the new.NET crap, which is ruining the industry for everyone. The only issues I found Wine to have were related to sound. Progressively, I fixed those and got the best out of my Wine installations. Heck, when I cross-compile, I always test my apps in Wine and verify that they are 1:1 with Windows. I constantly run different games in Wine and sometimes with better performance than my windows peers.
Occasionally, you'll have to bring out the nerd in you and do some hacking to get games to work. For instance, it was a long process for me to get Red Alert 3 to work online and via LAN. The forums helped me a lot. It was also difficult to get Age Of Empires III to run, but I did it.
I am only sorry that so many people end up bashing Wine. If they'd waste part of that time in contributing to the community, submitting patches, helping out in forums and irc, or simply stopping complaining, I think we'd be better.
There are already packages that enable Wine's D3D implementation in Windows. VirtualBox, for instance, bundles this with their guest additions. They call it WineD3D on Windows, I believe. You can do a quick google search and you'll find them. That's one of the things you really want to get in Windows with Wine. There are others, of course, but DX10 (enhanced DX7, for instance), are what users usually request.
I see now that I could be wrong. I based the whole reality of my country on my perception of my reality. But by reading websites such as http://www.portalbullying.com.pt/ I can understand that it is not at all as good as I painted it.
P.S: Gym class, heh? My nemesis as well... Glad you got where you wanted.
I, for once, like living in Portugal. I have never seen the highly dispersed not-that-of-a-myth that *all or most* nerds get beaten up. It seems that in the USA that really happens. I've been what you can consider a nerd for a long time and yes, people tried to set me aside for a while. Eventually, I always managed to get along with everyone in my classes and school by studying their behavior and showing them how they can be better. That way, instead of having to adapt and change, I am myself trying to get them to adapt and change for what I consider something better. In the end, we all get along just great. I have seen some examples of bullying, but never against nerds, only against dumb(=not intelligent)-and-too-shy people. It seems that, in here, nerds find a way to fit in. Sure, some nerds just lay clear that they don't want contact with what they consider "inferior people", while others, and I include myself in this group, try to be able to live with everyone.
That said, the worst thing I've seen happened about 4 years ago. A group of 13-year-olds hung another 13-year-old on top of a tree, stripped him off of his clothes and let him there crying. On a scale from 1-10, defining how much that happens, I'd give it 1/infinity; I had never seen something like that. Usually bullying here is mostly verbal and, sometimes, with the typical "steal this & steal that".
Usually I used skype to voice-chat. Then I realized that mumble was good outside gaming. Now I use mumble to do everything and have my own little chat app to communicate via text. Skype is dead for me. Mumble is bandwidth-saving in some cases and the quality is so vastly superior. The disadvantange is that of a centralized server, but I manage that just fine by using an available server OR running my local one. Sure, for conferences it might be worse in terms of bandwidth (all data going to the server = me), but for 2-3 people it is great. This isn't good for video, though, but I don't need that anyway, and I've heard of good apps to do so.
Let's face it, we're in the hands of these dumb-assed fucktards who run the damn business (Apple, Microsoft, those who will mod me troll or flamebaiter...). Those of us who care can't make a difference because the other millions of idiots and ignorants cannot/do not know how to help us fight them. That's why I stay away from these companies who only care about the money. There was a time in which people had compassion and knew that money wasn't everything -- we should earn a living, but not at the full expense of someone else's life; Ah, good old days...
This kind of belief disgusts me. That's all. Now troll me.
Really, who can be stupid enough to believe in a book that tells them all kinds of already-proven-wrong things, according to our current interpretation? I can *understand* the belief in an abstract god that created the rules that rule our world. I don't agree with it, but I can understand it. I cannot agree with or understand the belief in a god that is both our creator and our watch-dog -- a vengeful watch-dog. (Among many other things which make the theory of said god stupid; that's why I'm writing sort of an article to prove that such a god could not exist or that the belief in such a god could not exist). It is the work of an ignorant to believe in such, from my point of view. And this mostly proves it.
Out of curiosity, in here, in Portugal, my family started out with a 1mb/s connection that had 1GB international traffic limit and 20GB national. By staying with the company for around 6 to 7 years, we've progressively managed to get a 16mb/s connection with unlimited traffic for a lower price than the original 1mb/s traffic-limit-based connection. Yeah, it seems that keeping with your providers really is a good thing. (Oh, did I mention we got free TV and phone added in this promotion?)
Fuck those fundamentalist idiots. They're part of the reason the world can suck at times. I'd burn them all for the pitiful education that they not only reveal but also pass on to younger fellas.
I don't quite know. I wrote (or started writing) my libc implementation and had TenDRA around. Thus, I decided to write my libc and C++ implementation working both in TenDRA and GCC. I never really finished it, but I did get most of libc done (i/O and all), and I managed to implement a simple iostream standard-compliant c++ implementation within TenDRA.
Slashdot Mirror
Doing the silly thing of answering to myself, I should add that I get what you said (parent misunderstood the library), but I still disagree with it being an atomsend.
It so just happens that people develop for platform X because of reasons Y. In this case, there is one reason: popularity and third-party support / enforcing. So, a logical diagram shows that for one to stop having to develop for platform X, then reason Y has to stop existing. This means that for us to stop developing for IE, it has to stop being supported, used and enforced.
So, the next question is: How do we do it? One of the possible (and probably *smartest*) answers is: let it die, or don't allow your websites to use it.
Nevertheless, saying that "This isn't for people that use IE, it's for people that develop websites for I" ends up being redundant and, IMO, silly, as I just logically demonstrated.
Well, the thing is that .NET 2 worked alright. All the new crapware (for you: wonderthing ;)) after that has lead apps to not being run and the appdb to get more bad ratings. It pisses me off to see so many languages out there and watch everyone choose something as non-portable as .NET. Mono has a high degree compatibility level with .NET2, not with the rest, so it isn't portable to make apps for .NET2. It might be more portable to use winelib to enhance them.
Heck, I'd even prefer if they used Java! At least that way, I'd know it'd probably run, as long as they didn't do Windows voodoo with it.
But, sure, I understand that it is good framework for windows developers. It's the "windows" part of that sentence that turns my "windows-alike basher-thingy" on.
That's true, I agree with you fully. I also have to add that it isn't always the software that makes it be that fluctuating, but the hardware. Different hardware configurations, particularly related to gfx, end up messing appdb. But I've seen progress and the new policy is amazing.
I agree with you in the way that a developer shouldn't be rude, arrogant, condescending or a liar. That's because nobody should be like that. I don't, however, think that a developer should support the program if it is such a large scale program such as Wine. It's not MS's developers that support it, its the support department ;)
I would like to know where "However it is not a friendly compatibility layer that you install and suddenly Windows apps can be run just like on Windows with ease" came from. My experiences with the Wine community are not like that. Maybe in a year or two there was a forum member that seemed a bit arrogant, but I realized that he helped everyone and supplied links for the most basic of things.
Furthermore, if you're not going to be a "moderate hacker" or a "console output finder", what are you running UNIX for?
"So that's why people get mad. Wine shouldn't be marketed as a Windows compatibility layer. Wine is more of an experimental program that can help some Windows software run sometimes"
.NET. I suppose that, following that logic, if a Javascript implementation has glitches on your specific pages (not standardized ones), then it mustn't be considered a "Javascript compatiblity layer / implementation".
How-so? What the hell were you thinking to say that? I understand all your other points and agree to a certain degree with most, but I can't see why Wine isn't a windows compatibility layer. It is an implementation of the Windows API so it is also a compatibility layer. Much like MONO is to
Also, the people at Wine never advertised it as something that "just works" or something that "runs xx% of all apps". They are very nice people who help out when they can, and I'm proud to be able to talk to some of them. What they have achieved it far more than what we will all probably do. Have you browsed through Wine's source? That's amazing, giant, somewhat organized and a true work of art.
"However it is not a friendly compatibility layer that you install and suddenly Windows apps can be run just like on Windows with ease."
Yes, that one is mostly true. The thing is that Wine is the implementation. If you want user-friendliness, then get CrossOver, WineDoors, WineSkin or other apps. Besides, when I first arrived at Linux, my Ubuntu came with Wine (or I instaled it...). I only had the need to mess with Wine's insides about 2 years later. Until then, it ran most of my apps (some of them comple), with a simple point-and-click thing.
No. From what I've seen, Wine has acquired more and more users recently. You can clearly see that based on forum activity or even commit numbers.
Virtual Machines are slow, no matter what. They require a windows license and they suck when it comes to D3D and even OpenGL. Wine fixes that. It is POSIX-compatible, AFAIK, and it is an excellent study case. It helps people migrate to differet OS/es and it doesn't eat up half your RAM just to launch a crapload of services that come in your typical Windows installation. I've tried both things: VMs and Wine. Once I saw how faster Wine was, and how it never crashed my system, in contrast to the many BSODs I got with games in the VM (direct accelaration enabled), I never looked back.
Also, I like being able to quirk with Wine's code. If I don't like something in an app, I debug it and change Wine to have fun. I can't do that in a VM unless I recompile some core libs (or port Wine's to Windows), but that would be stupid.
I've used Wine for a long time. I've modified its source-code several times to make my apps run and I'm usually around the winehq.org forums. .NET crap, which is ruining the industry for everyone. The only issues I found Wine to have were related to sound. Progressively, I fixed those and got the best out of my Wine installations. Heck, when I cross-compile, I always test my apps in Wine and verify that they are 1:1 with Windows. I constantly run different games in Wine and sometimes with better performance than my windows peers.
I can say with a high degree of confidence that it runs most applications flawlessly. Of course, you need to remove many of the new
Occasionally, you'll have to bring out the nerd in you and do some hacking to get games to work. For instance, it was a long process for me to get Red Alert 3 to work online and via LAN. The forums helped me a lot. It was also difficult to get Age Of Empires III to run, but I did it.
I am only sorry that so many people end up bashing Wine. If they'd waste part of that time in contributing to the community, submitting patches, helping out in forums and irc, or simply stopping complaining, I think we'd be better.
There are already packages that enable Wine's D3D implementation in Windows. VirtualBox, for instance, bundles this with their guest additions. They call it WineD3D on Windows, I believe. You can do a quick google search and you'll find them. That's one of the things you really want to get in Windows with Wine. There are others, of course, but DX10 (enhanced DX7, for instance), are what users usually request.
So, basically, your wish is being granted.
Damnit! I just wasted my last mod-point! That is not only funny but a bit insightful!
I see now that I could be wrong. I based the whole reality of my country on my perception of my reality. But by reading websites such as http://www.portalbullying.com.pt/ I can understand that it is not at all as good as I painted it.
P.S: Gym class, heh? My nemesis as well... Glad you got where you wanted.
TFA states that he's worked with volunteers from "three to 40 years". Who the hell works with three years? Who the hell volunteers?
Ah, yes,I forgot, this is LEGO we're talking about.
I, for once, like living in Portugal. I have never seen the highly dispersed not-that-of-a-myth that *all or most* nerds get beaten up. It seems that in the USA that really happens. I've been what you can consider a nerd for a long time and yes, people tried to set me aside for a while. Eventually, I always managed to get along with everyone in my classes and school by studying their behavior and showing them how they can be better. That way, instead of having to adapt and change, I am myself trying to get them to adapt and change for what I consider something better. In the end, we all get along just great. I have seen some examples of bullying, but never against nerds, only against dumb(=not intelligent)-and-too-shy people. It seems that, in here, nerds find a way to fit in. Sure, some nerds just lay clear that they don't want contact with what they consider "inferior people", while others, and I include myself in this group, try to be able to live with everyone.
That said, the worst thing I've seen happened about 4 years ago. A group of 13-year-olds hung another 13-year-old on top of a tree, stripped him off of his clothes and let him there crying. On a scale from 1-10, defining how much that happens, I'd give it 1/infinity; I had never seen something like that. Usually bullying here is mostly verbal and, sometimes, with the typical "steal this & steal that".
Usually I used skype to voice-chat. Then I realized that mumble was good outside gaming. Now I use mumble to do everything and have my own little chat app to communicate via text. Skype is dead for me. Mumble is bandwidth-saving in some cases and the quality is so vastly superior. The disadvantange is that of a centralized server, but I manage that just fine by using an available server OR running my local one. Sure, for conferences it might be worse in terms of bandwidth (all data going to the server = me), but for 2-3 people it is great. This isn't good for video, though, but I don't need that anyway, and I've heard of good apps to do so.
I made up that joke. I'll charge you for that! =)
Let's face it, we're in the hands of these dumb-assed fucktards who run the damn business (Apple, Microsoft, those who will mod me troll or flamebaiter...). Those of us who care can't make a difference because the other millions of idiots and ignorants cannot/do not know how to help us fight them. That's why I stay away from these companies who only care about the money. There was a time in which people had compassion and knew that money wasn't everything -- we should earn a living, but not at the full expense of someone else's life; Ah, good old days...
We discussed chemtrails before here. Looks like somebody was ANNOYED: http://yourfreedom.hmg.gov.uk/restoring-civil-liberties/remove-the-chem-trails-over-our-skies
People sure are idiots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (is what he/she would say)
This kind of belief disgusts me. That's all. Now troll me.
Really, who can be stupid enough to believe in a book that tells them all kinds of already-proven-wrong things, according to our current interpretation? I can *understand* the belief in an abstract god that created the rules that rule our world. I don't agree with it, but I can understand it. I cannot agree with or understand the belief in a god that is both our creator and our watch-dog -- a vengeful watch-dog. (Among many other things which make the theory of said god stupid; that's why I'm writing sort of an article to prove that such a god could not exist or that the belief in such a god could not exist). It is the work of an ignorant to believe in such, from my point of view. And this mostly proves it.
Out of curiosity, in here, in Portugal, my family started out with a 1mb/s connection that had 1GB international traffic limit and 20GB national. By staying with the company for around 6 to 7 years, we've progressively managed to get a 16mb/s connection with unlimited traffic for a lower price than the original 1mb/s traffic-limit-based connection. Yeah, it seems that keeping with your providers really is a good thing. (Oh, did I mention we got free TV and phone added in this promotion?)
Well, the guy who made that *is* working for Microsoft now. Check his homepage: http://johnnylee.net/
Speak for yourselves, America.
Fuck those fundamentalist idiots. They're part of the reason the world can suck at times. I'd burn them all for the pitiful education that they not only reveal but also pass on to younger fellas.
I don't quite know. I wrote (or started writing) my libc implementation and had TenDRA around. Thus, I decided to write my libc and C++ implementation working both in TenDRA and GCC. I never really finished it, but I did get most of libc done (i/O and all), and I managed to implement a simple iostream standard-compliant c++ implementation within TenDRA.
I like LLVM, but I love TenDRA.
RTFA and get your answers.