> What I am worried about is dumb-ass ISP's that turn this feature on assuming all their customers use Wintel.
Yeah, like when MSN reworked their protocol to not allow open source clients on their IM network. I was a simple recompile away from getting back on the same day they did that.
As long as it doesn't ask for serial numbers, it shouldn't be too hard to send back a dummy reply. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if a later zero day virus goes out and forges the antivirus flag to bypass this authentication black magic marker style.
> Cisco firewalls are not your little linksys router from Fry's or that 386 running OpenBSD over in the corner.
It appears you are mistaken on both counts! If you go to http://www.linksys.com/ you will see the Cisco logo at the bottom!
Cisco's IOS is a modified BSD, you said so yourself, then in the next paragraph you state that it's nothing like the 386 running OpenBSD. Maybe the Cisco is more powerful, but it must have at least have common roots!
> The people who are in charge of purchasing decisions for a server aren't basing those decisions on what desktop OS they use.
Bzzt, wrong. A lot of the "desktop" machines connect to these servers. If the servers and the desktop's aren't speaking the same language, things get really jacked up. For example the kerberos that runs on most unix is not the same as what runs on Win 2000 Server. Things like this are a big deal, and Microsoft will not stop leveraging their desktop monopoly! Having emerging desktops that are more compatible (OO.o, and can comply with standards that already exists) puts pressure on Microsoft to stick with the standards.
> People who make those types of decisions should have some type of technical background and should be familiar with Windows, UNIX, and Linux variants.
Keyword in this is *should*. In corporate america, PHB's tend to make decisions like this. This is why Microsoft Vaporware 2008 works so well, PHB's stop purchasing until Vaporware either disappears or comes to fruition.
I'm afraid I can't answer your question, but I have a question of my own (and no I am not trolling).
1) Why run Oracle or Exchange on 2000 stored on a Linux Samba Server? Having a physical drive would be so much better in that losing that disc during a network issue or what not would cripple your e-mail or database server.
2) Why not run Oracle on Linux or Samsung's OpenMail on Linux instead of Oracle/Exchange and not bother with the headaches associated with creating a physical drive from a network map on a different architecture?
3) Is there really a situation where this sort of thing would actually be useful or nessecary?
Would it be possible for SCO to taint RMS & Linus Torvalds by forcing them to testify on SCO code.
They had a crazy NDA that would taint any open source developer from working on open source projects in the future, I don't see why that would go away.
Or does the fact that this is happening in court mean that all SCO code they bring up is now public record, and Linus/RMS will not be taintable?
He probably meant RMS, or Richard M. Stallman. Hey does anyone know what the M stands for? I don't care enough to google it, just see the M everytime his name comes up.
If they were doing this "as long as they think its helpful", then why would they put a policy to release a new distro every 4 - 6 mo and eol each one shortly after...
Get my drift? It's all about resource and time. They aren't even doing RedHat 8.0 and I'm sure there are a lot of people using RedHat 8.0. That's helpful but they aren't doing it!
There is no way of knowing how long Fedora will continue to release updates.
at some point these goddamn analogies get retarded. We're talking about the RIAA here, NOT bloody rope makers, NOT a company that sells pet rocks, etc. Come on man!
> If you take a look at the NT kernel and the number of security flaws in it... I think you find MS is doing ok.
No you wouldn't, you forget that Microsoft includes everything but the kitchen sink in the kernel. The Graphical Display Interface, IIS, Internet Explorer, and things like that.
IIS is the bane of any Windows Admin's existance and it is put in the kernel.
> VMware RUNS on linux, BSD etc , never mind just having them as guest OSs.
Actually only Linux and Windows are supported as hosts. It may in fact run under BSD with the linux emulation (which every fucking *BSD'er will say is not really emulation, without saying what the difference between emulation and what the *BSD's do!!!) but I think this is irrelevent.
When you license their product, by purchasing or otherwise, you license it to run on Linux OR Windows. So when you have your licensing information and have paid, does it really matter if there is a version for the other OS?
Are you forgetting that Virtual PC is also an app that lets you emulate an x86 host on a Macintosh?
But then again, you have to wonder how long they will provide updates. Fedora's release cycle is four to six months, with 2-3 months of updates after that. I just wonder how long Fedora will continue updates for the older RedHat's.
> The pop-up ad companies suing Microsoft for killing their business model...
Probably, I have no doubt that microsoft will by default whitelist *.hotmail.com, *.msn.com, *.allyourbases.com, etc.
&
>THe pop-up-blocker companies accusing Microsoft of using their monopoly powers(tm) to kill competition by including features in Windows designed to drive them out of business?
Might be a lite version of a pop up blocker, like the not very configurable type. XP includes a firewall, but it is a piece of shit and I don't remember hearing any of the firewalling companies bitching.
> PDF support would be quite nice though. Acrobat reader gets slower and slower with each release. If Apple can include it in the OS why not MS?
MS doesn't like PDF. They want everyone to use Microsoft eBook Reader. Remember guys, PDF == Portable Document Format. Microsoft does NOT like portability.
> We'll use yum instead of up2date/rhn for patching systems. So you'll basically be able to get RHEL (without the name) for free and optimized for i686 and athlon processors.
Who will do the errata? Run the updates for this OS? Without that, it's basically the same as running RedHat Linux 7.3 after EOL.
If however you are serious and would like bandwidth for an APT or YUM mirror, feel free to reply to this and I can provide you with bandwidth and storage for an apt server.
> What happens when Free software conquers all and all the software companies are put out of business, letting their programmers go?
When was the last programmer you met that worked for a software company? Most code developed these days isn't written to be sold, let's face facts. I have yet to meet any programmers that actually developed code that was for sale.
You would be stuck with the same problem as just installing RedHat Linux 7.2 at this point.
No further updates. You would have to mirror and recompile all further updates on a box of your own and run your own local redhat updates mirror. However with a Pink Tie Enterprise you would at least be able to just rpmbuild --rebuild the updates automatically on a buildbox.
The BSD kernel is licensed to allow this. MS doesn't owe a damn cent to any programmer for anything they take from BSD!
This is how they want it, that is why they chose to license it under the BSD license. If they had felt they wanted some compensation in return, it would have been proprietary or GPL or otherwise! BSD is the closest to Public Domain as you can get without actually being public domain.
However I will point out that Microsoft used the TCP/IP stack in BSD/OS, and actually had the owner of BSD/OS at the time do the porting. This is the proprietary cousin of the *BSD's, no not the fruity cousin!
When it comes to ease of use, I would say that the good ol QmailToaster is a worthy project. They've taken Qmail and made it easy enough for anyone to install a fully functioning mail server complete with webmail and easy administration.
Slashdot Mirror
no, the pc term for mainstream is sold out!
Oops, no wait...aww damnit my head hurts.
Alright! One bathroom for all, see some good does come out of this whole "politically correct" bullshit!
> What I am worried about is dumb-ass ISP's that turn this feature on assuming all their customers use Wintel.
Yeah, like when MSN reworked their protocol to not allow open source clients on their IM network. I was a simple recompile away from getting back on the same day they did that.
As long as it doesn't ask for serial numbers, it shouldn't be too hard to send back a dummy reply. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if a later zero day virus goes out and forges the antivirus flag to bypass this authentication black magic marker style.
> Cisco firewalls are not your little linksys router from Fry's or that 386 running OpenBSD over in the corner.
It appears you are mistaken on both counts! If you go to http://www.linksys.com/ you will see the Cisco logo at the bottom!
Cisco's IOS is a modified BSD, you said so yourself, then in the next paragraph you state that it's nothing like the 386 running OpenBSD. Maybe the Cisco is more powerful, but it must have at least have common roots!
My apologies.
That was very pompous of me!
However, I would still like to hear your thoughts on my reply to your posting. Who knows, I may learn something.
> The people who are in charge of purchasing decisions for a server aren't basing those decisions on what desktop OS they use.
Bzzt, wrong. A lot of the "desktop" machines connect to these servers. If the servers and the desktop's aren't speaking the same language, things get really jacked up. For example the kerberos that runs on most unix is not the same as what runs on Win 2000 Server. Things like this are a big deal, and Microsoft will not stop leveraging their desktop monopoly! Having emerging desktops that are more compatible (OO.o, and can comply with standards that already exists) puts pressure on Microsoft to stick with the standards.
> People who make those types of decisions should have some type of technical background and should be familiar with Windows, UNIX, and Linux variants.
Keyword in this is *should*. In corporate america, PHB's tend to make decisions like this. This is why Microsoft Vaporware 2008 works so well, PHB's stop purchasing until Vaporware either disappears or comes to fruition.
I'm afraid I can't answer your question, but I have a question of my own (and no I am not trolling).
1) Why run Oracle or Exchange on 2000 stored on a Linux Samba Server? Having a physical drive would be so much better in that losing that disc during a network issue or what not would cripple your e-mail or database server.
2) Why not run Oracle on Linux or Samsung's OpenMail on Linux instead of Oracle/Exchange and not bother with the headaches associated with creating a physical drive from a network map on a different architecture?
3) Is there really a situation where this sort of thing would actually be useful or nessecary?
Would it be possible for SCO to taint RMS & Linus Torvalds by forcing them to testify on SCO code.
They had a crazy NDA that would taint any open source developer from working on open source projects in the future, I don't see why that would go away.
Or does the fact that this is happening in court mean that all SCO code they bring up is now public record, and Linus/RMS will not be taintable?
No, it's Rashy Scrotum!
He probably meant RMS, or Richard M. Stallman. Hey does anyone know what the M stands for? I don't care enough to google it, just see the M everytime his name comes up.
If they were doing this "as long as they think its helpful", then why would they put a policy to release a new distro every 4 - 6 mo and eol each one shortly after...
Get my drift? It's all about resource and time. They aren't even doing RedHat 8.0 and I'm sure there are a lot of people using RedHat 8.0. That's helpful but they aren't doing it!
There is no way of knowing how long Fedora will continue to release updates.
at some point these goddamn analogies get retarded. We're talking about the RIAA here, NOT bloody rope makers, NOT a company that sells pet rocks, etc. Come on man!
So what you are saying is, yeah we'll work on fixes as long as the community creating the fixes feels like it.
Most linux users aren't in the dev community and can't create their own fixes, yet they are the ones that create the demand.
> If you take a look at the NT kernel and the number of security flaws in it... I think you find MS is doing ok.
No you wouldn't, you forget that Microsoft includes everything but the kitchen sink in the kernel. The Graphical Display Interface, IIS, Internet Explorer, and things like that.
IIS is the bane of any Windows Admin's existance and it is put in the kernel.
after installing their linux driver which mounts as a cd iso, i was able to get crystal clear 32 bit color
> VMware RUNS on linux, BSD etc , never mind just having them as guest OSs.
Actually only Linux and Windows are supported as hosts. It may in fact run under BSD with the linux emulation (which every fucking *BSD'er will say is not really emulation, without saying what the difference between emulation and what the *BSD's do!!!) but I think this is irrelevent.
When you license their product, by purchasing or otherwise, you license it to run on Linux OR Windows. So when you have your licensing information and have paid, does it really matter if there is a version for the other OS?
Are you forgetting that Virtual PC is also an app that lets you emulate an x86 host on a Macintosh?
I've wondered about that too!!
But then again, you have to wonder how long they will provide updates. Fedora's release cycle is four to six months, with 2-3 months of updates after that. I just wonder how long Fedora will continue updates for the older RedHat's.
> The pop-up ad companies suing Microsoft for killing their business model...
Probably, I have no doubt that microsoft will by default whitelist *.hotmail.com, *.msn.com, *.allyourbases.com, etc.
&
>THe pop-up-blocker companies accusing Microsoft of using their monopoly powers(tm) to kill competition by including features in Windows designed to drive them out of business?
Might be a lite version of a pop up blocker, like the not very configurable type. XP includes a firewall, but it is a piece of shit and I don't remember hearing any of the firewalling companies bitching.
> PDF support would be quite nice though. Acrobat reader gets slower and slower with each release.
If Apple can include it in the OS why not MS?
MS doesn't like PDF. They want everyone to use Microsoft eBook Reader. Remember guys, PDF == Portable Document Format. Microsoft does NOT like portability.
> We'll use yum instead of up2date/rhn for patching systems. So you'll basically be able to get RHEL (without the name) for free and optimized for i686 and athlon processors.
Who will do the errata? Run the updates for this OS? Without that, it's basically the same as running RedHat Linux 7.3 after EOL.
If however you are serious and would like bandwidth for an APT or YUM mirror, feel free to reply to this and I can provide you with bandwidth and storage for an apt server.
> What happens when Free software conquers all and all the software companies are put out of business, letting their programmers go?
When was the last programmer you met that worked for a software company? Most code developed these days isn't written to be sold, let's face facts. I have yet to meet any programmers that actually developed code that was for sale.
You would be stuck with the same problem as just installing RedHat Linux 7.2 at this point.
No further updates. You would have to mirror and recompile all further updates on a box of your own and run your own local redhat updates mirror. However with a Pink Tie Enterprise you would at least be able to just rpmbuild --rebuild the updates automatically on a buildbox.
NextStep kernel is Mach derived!
The BSD kernel is licensed to allow this. MS doesn't owe a damn cent to any programmer for anything they take from BSD!
This is how they want it, that is why they chose to license it under the BSD license. If they had felt they wanted some compensation in return, it would have been proprietary or GPL or otherwise! BSD is the closest to Public Domain as you can get without actually being public domain.
However I will point out that Microsoft used the TCP/IP stack in BSD/OS, and actually had the owner of BSD/OS at the time do the porting. This is the proprietary cousin of the *BSD's, no not the fruity cousin!
Not trying to troll or shit talk but I thought the gay population was believed to be 10%
When it comes to ease of use, I would say that the good ol QmailToaster is a worthy project. They've taken Qmail and made it easy enough for anyone to install a fully functioning mail server complete with webmail and easy administration.