L.A. County Bans Use Of "Master/Slave" Term

SlashChick writes "In an interesting twist on political correctness, L.A. County has banned the use of the terms 'Master/Slave' (commonly used to denote hard drive arrangements.) According to Snopes.com, 'someone within the County bureaucracy... had taken offense at "master/slave" references and complained to the board.' L.A. County now requires that vendors working with the county remove all 'master/slave' references. Incredible. Read the full story."

Comments

For the love of all that's good and holy

[__aavhli5779]

Funny that my first instinct was to check Snopes, and what do you know but that's the provided link. Shows how patently ridiculous this story seemed at first.

Hasn't this obsession with sanitizing speech become a total farce? What's next? Will we not be able to have male and female ends on our 1/4" audio cable for fear of offending the transgendered? How the hell am I supposed to shop for wires now?

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

shh, don't give them any ideas.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Gyan]

Hasn't this obsession with sanitizing speech become a total farce?

It's not total ...yet

When will it be okay to use the word 'slave'? It has a fairly distinct meaning. Should the possible offence, in this case, almost non-existent, cause the word to be abolished altogether because of what people connote the word with?

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[cgenman]

Will we not be able to have male and female ends on our 1/4" audio cable for fear of offending the transgendered?

There have always been male / female converters for cabling. If only humans were so lucky.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

What's next? Will we not be able to have male and female ends on our 1/4" audio cable...

I'll never forget the day my coworker and I were talking by speakerphone with a coworker, doing tech support. He asked if the equipment had a "male or female" end. She, puzzled, responded "what's the difference?"

I had to leave the room as he explained "the female one has a hole..."

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Jhon]

They've got all the ideas they need. Our city government (I live in LA) has gone over the deep end. This is worse than their ban on "Lap Dances" at the local "mens clubs". The same solution used by the "Gentleman's Clubs" should work. Get enough signatures on a petition to force a ballot measure and FORCE the City Council to either spend dozens of millions of dollars to put it up for a vote or STFU about the issue.

Their job is to make sure the cops get paid and the street lights work. It is NOT to re-invent Think-Speak.

Thank God for the referendum.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Hi_2k]

word cleaning not bad. Doubleplusgood.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[donscarletti]

There have always been male / female converters for cabling. If only humans were so lucky.

It's called a "strap on"

I realise that I run the risk of being modded (-1, Obscene) but I just had to say it.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Zeinfeld]

When will it be okay to use the word 'slave'? It has a fairly distinct meaning. Should the possible offence, in this case, almost non-existent, cause the word to be abolished altogether because of what people connote the word with?

The terminology in question is actually inacurate. There is no sense in which the 'master' drive in an IDE configuration controls or even sends commands to the slave. The drives appear in the BIOS as number 0 and 1. The only drive that is privilleged is drive 0, connector 0 which by convention is the master boot drive, but that is merely a convention, it could easily be configurable in the Bios.

As to the offense issue, it could be offensive if we still had a 'bring back slavery' movement or we had pro-slavery members of congress making coded references.

We don't have that for slavery but we still have that for segregation. Trent Lott is no longer Majority leader but he still serves in Congress and there are quite a few Republicans who play games that pander to racism and speak favorably of crypto-racist causes and crypto-racist groups. Nobody would dare praise the KKK these days, but the CCC, nudge, wink, geddit?

The US is still a country where black voters can be kept off the ballot through dishonesty, or do you think it a coincidence that the company chosen by Katherine Harris to purge the voter rolls of convicted fellons disqualified tens of thousands of legitimate qualified voters, most of whom just happened to be black? Is it coincidence that certain local police forced 'just happened' to mount roadblocks on roads that connected mostly black townships and the polls?

Of course these are not coincidences, the southern strategy is not dead. That is why at the next election we are going to be organizing monitoring groups to make sure that these election tactics cannot be repeated. We will be using the Internet to broadcast alerts about roadblocks, and we will be getting press and camera crews direct to the scene.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[jd_esguerra]

What's next?

Eliminating the numbers 55378008, 80085 and 7734.

(Young'ns, think old fashioned solar powered calculators.)

Oh yeah. Not quite the same, but just as disturbing: Pi is exactly 3.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[TKinias]

scripsit donscarletti:

It's called a "strap on"

Nah, that's female/male. What you're thinking of is called a `cleaver'.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[eblum]

And how should we refer to "Slavery abolition and Emancipation"?

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Foxxz]

Funny that "strap on" spelled backwards is "no parts"

-foxxz

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

> Will we not be able to have male and female ends

Funny you should mention that. When I was in college (early 90s) I worked in the computer labs. A rather hard-core feminist coworker heard me talking about male/female cable plugs. I told her it was an industry term, and what else can we call them? She insisted it'd be better to use terms like "plug" and "receptacle". I wonder if she works for LA County? :-)

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

Its funny because its true. - Homer J. Simpson

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[brianosaurus]

You should avoid referring to them whenever possible. If you do have to utter one of those terms, you should whisper.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[F34nor]

We should refer to it as the way the corporations were able to aquire human rights despite their limited liability.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[FunnyLookinHat]

Oh my crap. Some people need to grow up and realize that somes things are just words. This really ticks me off, when people can't handle themselves to exist in society. If someone says you are ugly, do you hang on it or just let it go by? Exactly, you let it go by. If you hang on it you may as well just sit and do nothing in life.

Please email me if you would like to send angry emails to the LA County to correct this.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[j3110]

I thought the first amendment rights superceded such non-sense anyhow. I'll call it whatever the hell I want. Arbitrarily picking words to be offended with is a very silly practice. I'm offended by the word cheese, from now on, I want everyone to use fromage. Isn't that about the same caliber. Why do we even have the words master and slave if we can't friggen use them? It's not like anyone has ever referred in public to the jumper setting as "Massuh". Maybe they are trying to free the oppressed drives! They deserve their own channel to call home!

Next we'll have to free the symbology of having only female connectors on devices... Female connectors can leave home and lead very low impedance connections too!

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[eyegone]

The Civilian Conservation Corps.?

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[serial frame]

How can we help?

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

Robert Bird (Democrat)=KKK
Q: Which party opposed major Civil Rights Legislation?

A: Democrat Party (Gore's Papa to boot.)

While you are looking Right, you might want to keep an eye on the left you Red Freak.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[the_2nd_coming]

yeah, and there are old Democrats who use to be in the KKK *cough*Robert Bird*cough* that say on national TV "he is just a white nigger."

what kind of racism is that? the kind that gets forgiven by the black community I guess since it was.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

When it comes to race, there seems to be such a big anti-Southern sentiment in the North...

Makes me feel great. I'm from Alabama.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[ShieldW0lf]

as discrimination based upon race, gender, or physical condition has become less socially acceptable, we began to frown upon the use of pejorative terms associated with race

Um, does anyone else think that referring to master and slave as perjorative terms associated with race is MUCH more offensive than using the terms to refer to hard drives?

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

I had to leave the room as he explained "the female one has a hole..."

and the male has a great big fat long rod or "pole" which gets forced into the females hole.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

quite a few Republicans who play games that pander to racism

Like, say, well-known Republican Howard Dean.

disqualified tens of thousands of legitimate qualified voters, most of whom just happened to be black

And of course, since we know that they're black, we know how they're going to vote. Those people are all alike, aren't they? No independence of thought, like we have.

And it's not at all racist to target "get out the vote" campaigns at blacks, is it?

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

This remind me of a time when I first came to the US. Back home, I learned from american movies and music that n*gger was a cool word to say to your friends. So my roommate was black and first thing I said to him was "Whats up! N*gger!!!"
Let me tell you that my roomate was not very nice to me for the rest of year.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[certron]

Sorry I have to add this silly comment to your very well-written and researched one, but until your post, I thought the entire thing was ridiculous. Now I at least see that the request has a *reason* (but not really merit, in my opinion).

I had come across the story before, but didn't read too much into it. I thought the complaint was from bondage enthusasts! (Then again, that wouldn't make sense. Just goes to show how much of my brain functions on a daily basis...)

There wasn't that much that 'just happened' in the 2000 election. Also, the list that was used to do the voter roll purges was of felons, and it came from Texas. The problems were that the matching criteria was *very* loose, and if you were born on the same day or had a similar surname, you could be removed from the voter rolls... If you want something interesting, see if you can find the Greg Palast report that was on BBC, where he went to interview the polling company. Should be about 15 minutes long. There were a lot of strange goings-on during that election, including the 'grass-roots' staged protest by Republican staffers in Miami-Dade county. I could go on, but that would make it way-way-offtopic, instead of just a little.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Psx29]

You know, I always thought the way to create new, positive meanings for words was not by BANNING THEM!

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[the_2nd_coming]

and he did not get fired for sexual harasment?

when was this? 1980?

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Gavin Miller]

Looks like we are gonna have to start calling the male end the pointy end. and the female end the holy end. I think this is ridicoulous.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[el-spectre]

For what it's worth, I find it interesting that folks always assume this is a racial (specifically, about black slaves) issue. Slavery has been around for millenia, as anything from a way to pay off a debt (fairly rare, and different from indentured servants) to the penalty for losing a battle in war.

This is NOT a concept that is 'owned' by any one group of people.

Incidently, I appreciate the work you are doing. It's pretty scummy the way some folks are still treated.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

do you think it a coincidence that the company chosen by Katherine Harris to purge the voter rolls of convicted fellons disqualified tens of thousands of legitimate qualified voters, most of whom just happened to be black? Is it coincidence that certain local police forced 'just happened' to mount roadblocks on roads that connected mostly black townships and the polls?

Your fucking kidding me right? Don't make claims like that without acutall hard data to back it up, its easy to make broad based claims to skew information in one direction. And I doubt you were involved in either incident (if either is even true) so you couldnt know exaclty what happened to lead to each outcome.

This is along the same lines of saying that "one out of every two car accidents was caused by someone who smoked pot" when they fail to mention that each on of those people were actually drunk as well, and fail to show stats of accidents of those who were not drunk but were high.

People are never happy unless they can find (or invent) something to bitch about. (I found my thing to bitch about ... so now I'm happy)

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[TyrranzzX]

It's called newsspeak; the idea that the ruling class will attempt to screw over the working and under classes language to the point that it's so general describing a cupcake is difficult. When you can't say the word black person for fear of being called a racist, you've lost the ability to think about someone as black. When you can't think of things as master/slave but in some other fetish term which will be banned then you've lost that as well.

I personally think that anyone who wants to be politically correct can go right ahead but the moment someone comes upto me and starts telling me what I can and can't believe or say is the moment I tell them to fuck off. I'v ascertained this level of english, and a large vocabulary and I'm gonna use it.

Now, as for shopping for wires, we can easily change the terminology to "penis, vagina" and if they don't like that, "innie and outie". If they still think that's bad, we'll name the wire ends "this end was fucked by political correctness" and "this end was fucked more by political correctness". I like the current terminology, it works and everyone can get it from the get go.

A good measure of a leader is their ability to solve conflict. If something they do with their power causes more conflict than it solves, then they are not a good leader. By that logic, the moron who wanted this passed needs to get booted out of their nice cosy seat.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

at the next election we are going to be organizing monitoring groups to make sure that these election tactics cannot be repeated. We will be using the Internet

Depending on the details, I might be interested in helping. Is there a way I can find out more?

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

I just read that on bash.org a few hours ago. (-1, redundant)

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[the_mad_poster]

I don't think you can apply definitions during word cleaning. It would simply have to be introduced as: "word cleaning doubleplusgood" so as to cause maximum confusion and obfuscation of the language. Application of the new terminology is meant to obfuscate the language so as to render it inoperable for any purpose beyond the most basic directives required by the Party. If the language renders communication of abstract thought impossible, abstract thought, even if it's not caught by the Party, becomes useless.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

Um, since 1865, the parties *switched* constituencies. If you think the 1865 Republicans and the 2003 Republicans have anything in common but a name (or the same for the Democrats), you're badly mistaken.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[keith_nt4]

I can see why the ingnorant types might be offended by this. I was talking to an amatuer computer user friend of mine who had just purchased a new HDD and told him to "mount the new drive as a slave" and he reacted a little wierdly. But as has already been mentioned the terms are accurate and this will be expensive to change. Maybe Arnold will stop it. He already fired that DMV guy.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[cball2k]

Sorry, but to think that using a set of terms to describe the mass killing of insects is proper if it is in reference to the mass murder of the Jewish people, is WRONG!

I live in the midwest, have family that are farmers, and at NO time has this set of terms you claim are used, been uttered...

"..., even though "Gestapo" and "Jews" sure seems to illustrate the concept nicely." ...could it be someone has their own hate isssue here, and not the agriculture community as they claim.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[djhertz]

Some people just get all kinds of upset with usage of words. You would probably draw an odd look if you said, "While masticating with my angina, my friend was very niggardly about the bill at the restaurant." Oh well, just words.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[GreyPoopon]

When will it be okay to use the word 'slave'?

More importantly, when we stop using the word, will people forget what slavery is and just make all the same mistakes?

Of other interest, I believe The Guvinator should now see his first target for cutting the budget...

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

The US is still a country where black voters can be kept off the ballot through dishonesty, or do you think it a coincidence that the company chosen by Katherine Harris to purge the voter rolls of convicted fellons disqualified tens of thousands of legitimate qualified voters, most of whom just happened to be black?

*Yawn* You only gave half the story. Katherine Harris did not purge tens of thousands of legitimate qualified voters, she purged tens of thousands of felons! Hence the saying, "Get a felony, loose the right to vote."

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

The correct spelling is "newspeak", a joining of "new" and "speak".

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[catbutt]

Sorry, but to think that using a set of terms to describe the mass killing of insects is proper if it is in reference to the mass murder of the Jewish people, is WRONG!

Well good, it looks like my analogy illustrated the point pretty well. Of course its wrong, and you are right, no one really uses those terms to my knowledge, I just made it up. It's obviously a more extreme example, but I think it shows how using metaphores based on evils of history to illustrate everyday concepts just MIGHT be a bit offensive to some people.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[geoffspear]

Q: Which party did all of the racist former Democrats join when they left the Democratic party to protest the Civil Rights Act?

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

Depending on the details, I might be interested in helping. Is there a way I can find out more?

Certainly. Check out www.vastrightwingconspiracy.com.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

The GOP of the early 20th Century is in no way like it is today. The South was full of democrats (hell Lyndon Johnson was from Texas) that were divided over the morality issues after the 1964 Presidential Election between Republican Goldwater and Democrat incumbent LBJ.

Goldwater got his ass kicked, however he forever changed the GOP into the party of 'morality'. This is essentially when the south began its long transformation from Democrat to Republican.

In a nutshell: The South was full of so called 'Dixiecrats' that were not exactly big on civil rights.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Andy_R]

There is actually supposed to be a master/slave relationship with multiple drives, the spin speeds of multiple drives should ideally synchronise to the master in order to minimise vibration and optimise data movements between them.

I'll leave it to someone with less of a scsi/firewire bias than me to say if this feature is actually part of the IDE spec or not, but I'm reliably informed by my father that 1970s IBM mainframes did this (back in the days where drive caches were measured in bytes), and that slave drives with the extra circuitry to sync up to a master were slightly more expensive.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[netsharc]

Do you happen to be Jackie Chan? (See Rush Hour to see what I mean)

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Snocone]

This is NOT a concept that is 'owned' by any one group of people.

Yes it is; us Slavic peoples. Where the hell do you think the word CAME from in the first place? Look it up, as they say.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[the_2nd_coming]

they mostly stayed in the Democratic party, but they said tehy were reformed. a la Bobby Bird.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[the_2nd_coming]

yeah, when did that constituency change?

in 1965 the republicans were the ones pushing for Civil Rights while the Democrats were opposed to it.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[ceije]

"I need a gender changer for my dongle."

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

A: Robert Byrd - D WV

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[The Cydonian]

Hasn't this obsession with sanitizing speech become a total farce? What's next?

I was reading this book on Visual Communication which, among other things, uses the term 'Anglos' to describe a certain ethnic race in the US. Took me a while to understand that 'Anglos' was a reference to White American Males. (Which, in a way, was sad, 'coz the book otherwise made some very good comments on stereotypes in visual ethnography; silly word games such as this distract you from the real message)

As for this particular case, I wouldn't read too much into it. It's a bit like those 19th century attempts at legislating the value of Pi to be 3; more than anything, it's a display of what someone with administrative power will do if they see something unpalatable, even if it's beyond their natural domain.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[geoffspear]

That's Byrd, and he's one of the very few who stayed, mostly because he lives in West Virginia, where no one cares if you're a racist as long as you don't judge what they're doing to their sheep.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

Where I work we have to call them receptacle and plug. No shit. but the clutch still has a master and slave cylinder

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[the_2nd_coming]

oh, it is Byrd? I could not tell. I thought his name was spelled how he speaks on the floor which is like a Bird.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[el-spectre]

The word, I dunno... the concept is old.

Were your people enslaved en masse at one point? (My european history is bad enough that I can't tell if you are joking...)

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[DJStealth]

What is this world coming to when you can no longer say that you're looking for a "USED CAR". You have to say "Pre-Owned Vehicle".

Damn this political correctness BS.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[timotten]

Will we not be able to have male and female ends on our 1/4" audio cable for fear of offending the transgendered?

Well, I don't know about offending people... but I do get some weird looks whenever I describe a USB connector...

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, how else is he supposed to explain it?

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[b-baggins]

Oooh. Here are some more. Which party has the most powerful black woman in the world? (Condoleeza Rice)

Which party has the most powerful black man in the world? (Clarence Thomas)

Which party is the only one with a black man in a position of congressional leadership? ( JC Watts)

Which party is the one filibustering Miguel Estrada because, in their own words: He's a latino?

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Zeinfeld]

The Civilian Conservation Corps.?

Concerned Citizens Councils. They had a similar relationship to the KKK that Sinn Fein has to the IRA. They are basically two sides to the same coin, the public acceptable face is used for recruiting and the other side of the coin does the threats and murder.

BTW The reason why Senator Byrd is not attacked by Democrats or the NAACP for having been a member of the KKK is that 1) it is now a VERY long time ago and 2) he has publicly and repeatedly repudiated both the KKK in particular and the idea of racism. Compare this to Senators Thurmond and Helms, neither of whom ever repudiated their seggregationist positions, they merely downplayed them.

As for the reason why the Democrats and Republicans changed places? It was a short term political gambit by Nixon. In the aftermath of the civil rights act Nixon launched the 'southern strategy'. This was centered on wellcoming segregationists into the Republican party. The result was that Nixon got elected and the Republican party became the party of pandering to racists.

I have no idea why they wanted to do that, long term it is a major handicap. Population trends are not good for the Republican party. There are not too many homophobes, racists and other bigots in the 21 to 40 age group.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[the_2nd_coming]

I was being silly.

but in corprate america, people do get fired for saying crap like that to an ignorent woman.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[tfreport]

He is not joking. That is where the term comes from. Quick check of M-w.com to get this:

Etymology: Middle English sclave, from Old French or Medieval Latin; Old French esclave, from Medieval Latin sclavus, from Sclavus Slavic; from the frequent enslavement of Slavs in central Europe
Date: 14th century

But you are correct, there were slaves well before the word came into being. And so the idea should not be held to just one group.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[the_Bionic_lemming]

Actually - 80085 should of been 58008...

Carry on...

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[spence2680]

I think I have a good way to overcome this blatant abuse of "labeling" method. Lets instead call "Master" "Fuck" and "Slave" "Fucked". This will allow us to use smaller, less offensive words AND save precious storage capacity!

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[SirNAOF]

...the symbology...

I believe the word you were looking for was symbolism. What is the symbolism of having only female connectors.

</movie title="Boondock Saints">

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

Hate is an equal opportunity employer.

Discrimination is not just for minorities anymore.

Republicans, Democrats, I could be active in politics, but since there are only 2 parties, both hated severely by the other. Is the only way to count come down to chosing the lesser of two idiocies?

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

People would be more apt to believe you if you knew how to spell "ignorant."

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

Clearly microsoft have been promoting this for a long time with their device msexchange product offerings.

I once had a complaint from a customer over rude emails being sent to her. Seems she somehow thought that msexchange in the headers might actually mean someone thought she should get a 'Male Sex Change' rather than it coming from a Microsoft Exchange server.

Sad but true :(

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[whereiswaldo]

I'd like to have a talk with people who are offended so badly by such things. My first question? How the fuck do you survive in life with such a crybaby mentality? What would you do in a harsh environment?

Problem is that we in "1st world" countries have it so easy that we have to find something to bitch about. I think there's a lot of truth to what was said in the Matrix, about the first one was perfect but was a disaster because nobody would accept it.

Try living in one of those countries where people are routinely beaten, killed, tortured, slashed to death, shot, run over, buried alive, burned, and so on. Then tell me how the term "master/slave" bothers you.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[SETIGuy]

Not that I agree with LA county on this one, but I think you are assuming that human slavery has been eradicated. It has not. Not even in the U.S.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[IM6100]

There are tons of racists in the 21 to 40 group.

If by 'racist' you mean people obsessed with issues of race. The left is chock full of such folk. Most regular folks are 'colorblind' these days. The color of a person's skin isn't a big deal any longer. Now, if a person dressed like a ghetto thug confronts them, it may be another matter, but that's not a racial issue. A well-dressed person of any color is well accepted by most of society.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[zephc]

While they're at it, change all the web forms in the world so that they don't say SUBMIT, as it's far too S&M. Perhaps the generic ENTER or OK would do, they're just not kinky enough though.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[ewilts]

I don't know about the IDE spec, but I did a quick search on faq.org for "master/slave" in the rfcs. I matched at least 16 RFCs (it also matches older versions of the same RFCs).

So, I guess you can't be RFC-compliant when bidding on LA County contracts...

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

>yeah, when did that constituency change?

In the south it changed a few times. After the 1964 Presidential election between Republican Goldwater (who btw opposed federal civil rights laws) and Democrat incumbent Johnson, the south was mostly democratic. However, after that election the south was torn after Goldwater had made his GOP run with the theme of 'morality'.

This is when the South began its slow transoformation into becoming GOP territory.

Read up on some issues for christ's sake and let this stupid issue die. I don't know how many trolls I have seen the Right use on how the democrats are really this Racist KKK loving southern powerhouse.
Some info on Goldwater

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[miskatonic alumnus]

Hey boys, let's go get drunk and find some receptacles! Yes, we'll go hot-plugging!

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

My favorite thing in the whole world is to make the universal sign- a circle with the left index finger and thumb and insert the right index finger through the circle- whenever I talk about male and female connectors. It gets some interesting reactions from people. Seriously.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[buck_wild]

Next thing you know, we'l be calling rape victims "Unwilling sperm recipients".

cred. George Carlin

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[tealover]

I remember in NYC back in the late 80's or early 90's there was a debate between a professor in the CUNY system who had written a book debunking the popular belief that pre-biblical Egyptians were black, as civil rights advocates of the 60's were wont to do, and a bunch of black CUNY professors.

She strategically threw in the word "niggardly" in her debate and the black professors went ballistic. She manipulated them into the outburst with her choice of word and pretended that they were upset about nothing.

Granted, the use of the word was benign on its face but the context and the power that some words (and sounds) provoke belied her feigned naivete.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

Good point. I'm an MTF geek and now that I know I should be offended I'll have to suggest they change M/F to, uh, I dunno, Concave/Convex.

Next I'll ask them to change all uses of the prefix "trans" to, let's se... "contra"! Oh, no, too political. How 'bout, "cross"? Nope, that'll piss off the transvestites.

I'll get back to you all when I get it figured out.

-

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

Will we not be able to have male and female ends on our 1/4" audio cable for fear of offending the transgendered?

Actually, as it turns out they used to be called cock and cunt ends on the cables. It was only during the womens movement that these were changed.

These things sometimes change, usually for the better.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

>Which party is the one filibustering Miguel Estrada because, in their own words: He's a latino? Find anywhere in the congressional record where a democrat says they filibustered Estrada because he was latino. > Which party is the only one with a black man in a position of congressional leadership? ( JC Watts) Don't you mean former congressional leader?

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Zeinfeld]

Ahh looks like my post is a victim to the political correctness on slashdot. Like mention that there is in fact this thing called racism and that back in the 1960s Jim Crow was the war of the land and that that fact might have a little something to do with the sensitivity some folk show on these issues.

Or maybe it was mentioning some of the testimony heard at the US Civil Rights Commission - that is a government proceeding folks.

The Associated Press
Friday, January 12, 2001
Tallahassee, Fla. -- A black minister claimed he was purged from the voter rolls because he was mistakenly branded a felon. A black woman said she encountered an Election Day roadblock manned by white state troopers.

These activities are pretty well documented. They are the reason that Florida State eventually came to a settlement in a civil rights case with the NAACP. The Department of Justice on the other hand decided not to take an interest.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

> Which party is the one filibustering Miguel Estrada because, in their own words: He's a latino?

Find anywhere in the congressional record where a democrat says they filibustered Estrada because he was latino.

> Which party is the only one with a black man in a position of congressional leadership? ( JC Watts)

Don't you mean former congressional leader?

As in he isn't a member of the House of Representatives.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

Q: Why does the IDE bus have an Orgasm line?
A: So the slave knows when to stop fucking.

Funny? Disturbing? Do words have no meaning other than their definitions?

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[goodie3shoes]

This is linguistic revisionism, and it has dangers. If you eliminate terms from the language because they make someone uncomfortable, you allow the public to forget or erase history. I think this ultimately does a disservice to those who were oppressed.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[SiaFhir]

While we're at it, let's remove every reference to the word "icon". Some religions don't believe in icons, so they and non-religious people alike may find that word offensive. We should instead call them "little pictures with words beneath them".

When is this political correctness crap going to end???

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[harkabeeparolyn]

When will it be okay to use the word 'slave'?

When you're standing on the throat of one of these pinhead bureaucrats. As in "Die, ignorant slave!"

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[cpt kangarooski]

Hermaphroditic cable connectors.

Seriously, think about it -- no more need for gender changers. All cables and jacks have the same ends, reducing the number of different parts needed for assembly. Special extension cables aren't needed, since you can just connect several ordinary cables without any additional hardware.

Plus of course, I have yet to see a well designed cable end -- USB is good, but it's too easy to accidently try to plug the cable in upside down since you really need to take a close look at the cable end and the jack, and it is possible to force it in wrong. So some attention would need to be paid there as well.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[jimmyharris]

Or are they blocking Estrada because

Who is Miguel Estrada? We all have a right to know before we make him a judge. Yet he's done his best to hide his views on the law from us.

Miguel Estrada has never served as a judge before, so he's never issued a written opinion on a case. Nonetheless he has a reputation as a right-wing ideologue. Paul Bender, a former Deputy Solicitor General who once supervised Estrada's work, said he found him so "ideologically driven that he couldn't be trusted to state the law in a fair, neutral way."**

The Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund, the Puerto Rican Legal Defense and Education Fund, and the Congressional Hispanic Caucus are among a wide range of civic groups opposing the Estrada nomination.

During hearings held in the last Congress, Estrada refused to answer Senators' legitimate questions about his legal and judicial views. His silence is designed to make it hard for Senators to oppose him.

http://www.moveon.org/news/1011.html

and

Estrada is a member of the law firm that represented Bush in his successful Supreme Court fight for the presidency. He came to the United States from Honduras as a teenager and graduated from Harvard Law School in 1986. He has practiced constitutional law and argued 15 cases before the Supreme Court.

But Senate Democratic leader Tom Daschle of South Dakota accused Estrada of refusing to explain what his judicial philosophy would be if he became a federal judge. The D.C. circuit, which is evenly split between judges appointed by Republican and Democratic presidents, has been a steppingstone to the U.S. Supreme Court.

"Every nominee who comes before the Senate has the obligation to be forthcoming with information about his position, with information about his record," said Daschle. "Until he does, we don't believe that it is in the Senate's best interest to allow this confirmation to go forward."

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/02/12/senate.e strada.ap/

and

At a press conference Wednesday afternoon with various Hispanic organizations, Congressional Democrats, including Daschle, Leahy and Rep. Robert Menendez of New Jersey, said it hasn't been easy for the Hispanic community to oppose a Hispanic nominee to the bench.

The key word is "qualified," Menendez said, adding that Estrada has no judicial experience or a "critical understanding" of Latino issues.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,77667,00.html

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Vexar]

funny? How about intentional? I'd believe it.

For those of you slashdotters living in that fated Los Angeles County (what's your city motto again? "Together, we're the best?"), try to remember Mr. Sandoval the next time you get your property tax statement. Just think to yourself: " probably a couple of these dollars go to that nit-wit's paycheck." Bah, Los Angeles needs to subdivide anyway. Maybe share the LAPD, if only for reputation's sake.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Jaysyn]

I know, we could make up some new words & call em kok & kunt, that shouldn't offend anyone.

Jaysyn

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Izago909]

What's even more interesting is that in the context of IDE interfaces, the slave drive would not be doing any work. It would be using the other drives' controller.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[kmac06]

He claimed. She said.

Nice facts.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[the_2nd_coming]

sorry, I meant ignent.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[jahudabudy]

Which party has the most powerful black man in the world? (Clarence Thomas)
I assume you meant country?

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not religous and your comment states that this has something to do with "holiness", I find that offensive!

I demand you find a more neutral subject for this thread :).

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[operagost]

The real issue here needs to be said. Isn't the person who even thought of this the worst kind of bigot? Let's face it- what's the real issue here? Historically, we know that nearly every race and nation has suffered under the yoke of slavery. The conqueror becomes the conquered. Yet some ignorant fool in L.A. county decided that slavery was an affliction exclusive to the black race- there's no other explanation for why master/slave is suddenly an insensitive term there. Well, I'm quite offended that the slavery suffered by the subjects of the Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Roman, and Ottoman empires; medieval Feudalism; Islam; and myriad others I've forgotten is somehow IRRELEVANT when compared to that of west Africans.

If we allows fools like this to erase our history, then we will surely repeat it.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[cpt kangarooski]

All of those numbers are symmetrical -- it works either way.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[mhesseltine]

If you don't think ENTER could be kinky, just lookup odd insertions.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[operagost]

You forgot:

A senior Senator of which party called two minority federal judicial candidates "neanderthals"?

Hint: I hear he's a lousy driver but a good swimmer.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, share the LAPD, so everyone visiting can be reminded why they don't want to live there.

Gah, enjoy the police state. I thought California was full of crazy, ideological, intellectuals?

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

So by calling everyone in the south "racist fucks" you are stereotyping a group of people by a simple trait they share in common (in this case geographic location; could just as easily be skin color, sex, etc). Can we say hypocrite?

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[mutewinter]

I take offense at the bureaucrat who thinks that I'm a slave to do their bidding. Can we pass a law to ban him/her/it/master/slave?

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[mudshark]

Come on now...ENTER or OK can be readily construed as invitations to penetration. This is certain to offend the asexual, nonsexual and antisexual contigents.

eek

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

Hasn't this obsession with sanitizing speech become a total farce? What's next? Will we not be able to have male and female ends on our 1/4" audio cable for fear of offending the transgendered? How the hell am I supposed to shop for wires now?

Maybe we should call them penis / vagina ends? That should offend transgendered less...

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[j_kenpo]

Yeah, this is almost as bad as Indiana's attempt to legally set Pi to 3... (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_341.html)

Just goes to show you the stupidest people are running the show.. (I would have said "Too many chiefs, not enough Indians", but who knows where I'd get that outlawed).

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[raider_red]

Just tell them that it's not a technical term and that it applies to an "alternative lifestyle" and the freaks will back off immediately.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[the_Bionic_lemming]

Umm, no - it doesn't.

The numbers would be typed in, and the calculator inverted to read the result.

80085 would read as "SBOOB" instead of "BOOBS" if we followed your advice.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[TKinias]

scripsit tfreport:

...from the frequent enslavement of Slavs in central Europe

And not just central Europe. The Swedes used to sell Slavic slaves as far away as Samarqand (modern Uzbekistan). Oddly enough, if you were blonde-haired and blue-eyed in Samarqand a thousand years ago, it probably would be assumed you were a slave; the ruling classes were a mix of Persian, Turkish, and Arab. Slavic slaves were also quite popular in pre-Reconquista Andalusia (modern Spain/Portugal)--perhaps more so than African ones.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[the_Bionic_lemming]

BTW - We missed one other old calc number

71077345

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[cpt kangarooski]

But you don't need to invert 80085 -- it _already_ says "BOOBS," you boob.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[amRadioHed]

Hardly. As was pointed out several times already, master and slave are just general terms that don't refer to any particular race or event, just like warden/convict or boss/employee. Certainly if devices were labeled as landowner/black, gestapo/jew, african/british or some other set of words that referred to a specific race being subordinate to another it would be offensive, but throughout history every race has been the master and every race has been the slave at some time. People just need to get a grip on reality. Humans != Hard Drives. Humans as slaves is a bad thing, hard drives as slaves, not a problem.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[ValentineMSmith]

Actually, I have it on reliable authority that the part in question is in fact referred to as a "Gender Bender" (or at least thats what the decidedly NON politically-correct electronics teacher taught me in High School).

I just knew I shouldn't have gone back to look at Slashdot after drinking that much Glenlivet.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[AndreyF]

SHELLOIL?

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Transcendent]

you think it a coincidence that the company chosen by Katherine Harris to purge the voter rolls of convicted fellons disqualified tens of thousands of legitimate qualified voters, most of whom just happened to be black?

Black fellons... a coincidence? Oh it must be...

I'm sorry... but you deserved that sarcasm. If you complain that the government discriminates against convicted fellons and the majority happen to be black, it's your own damn fault for being the fellon. Stop robing banks, shooting people, and making gangs and then you won't have anything to complain about. (No... that's not racist. Just think about it for a while and you'll see why it's not).

I bet ya if the majority was white you wouldn't say a word... But would the white folk? Nope... we have better things to do...

disqualified tens of thousands of legitimate qualified voters

Ya know you just contradicted yourself there? And you wonder why it was so easy it was to make an argument against you...

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[darco]

Guh. That's just "newspeaknglish".

Crimethinker!!!

The Newspeak Dictionary

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[nathanh]

For what it's worth, I find it interesting that folks always assume this is a racial (specifically, about black slaves) issue. Slavery has been around for millenia, as anything from a way to pay off a debt (fairly rare, and different from indentured servants) to the penalty for losing a battle in war.

Interestingly enough, it wasn't until your comment that I realised anybody was talking about racial slavery (specifically, black slaves). I suppose that's the benefit of not being educated in an American environment. I assumed the LA County official was simply outraged at the concept of slavery, not the racial implications of American slavery.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Mr. Troll]

What about adapters....are Male/Male gender benders a thing of the past?....or would they be heros for being *out of the closet*

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[noblefox]

Just wait until someone jumps all over the male and female connectors issue... forget submitting, its going to be all about the entering.

Connect me baby! Yes! Ohhh! Plug it in!

Check out that plug and play... ohhh Id like a peice of that... Ohhh yeah.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[pudge]

Why couldn't it be the other kind of computer, with the slave part on top and the female part on the bottom?

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[el-spectre]

I imagine that a hundred years from now we'll still be having the same conversation. All the slaves and slave owners are dead and gone, but it's embedded in the american psyche.

It doesn't help any that some dumbasses in the south still fly the confederate battle flag...

As an aside...
Looking like I do (big white boy, irish/scottish background), people assume I'm a racist... guess I fit the stereotype too well. When I was in school, this texan dude walks up to me and goes "he maaan, what's the deal with all these derned wetbacks 'round here?" I told him that it was (at the time) the year 1998, not 1798. Catch up or go the fuck back to texas... he left quietly...

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Canadian_Daemon]

I fail to see how eliminating the _word_ master/slave can stop slavery. It can't. War is worse than slavery, thousands of innocent civilians die from it, yet we haven't renamed wardriving.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean that some democrats opposed it. The Civil Rights bill was supported by Truman, Kennedy, and Johnson -- the most important democrats of the period.

By 1968 the GOP was already backing away from their traditional Civil Rights platform in order to appeal to Southern racists.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

She insisted it'd be better to use terms like "plug" and "receptacle".

I'd have immediately started using "dish-washer" and "wage-earner".

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[the_Bionic_lemming]

Uh huh.

and the other two listing given were in plain showings as well? //points and laughs

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[SatanicPuppy]

Actually, the bulk of the democrats who opposed desegregation, collectively known as "Dixiecrats" migrated to the Republican party. The group who switched included such notables as Trent Lott and Strom Thurmand. Ronald Reagan also switched at this time, though perhaps it was because he was busy calling people communists, and not because he hated black people.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[the_Bionic_lemming]

BTW
55378008,

Is "BOOBLESS" upside down - as the parent poster indicated

and 7734 is "hell" for the same reasons.

So the person who tried to whack me on 80085 is pretty f'king clueless.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

Personally, I believe this doesn't go far enough! We must wipe out the word slave from the language. I propose we start with the history books.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Golias]

Furthermore, the word "slave" is derived from "Slav"; a reference to the fact that most captive workers during the Middle Ages were from the Slavic regions of Europe (Bohemia, Moravia, and Northeastern Europe).

If "slave" is a racial reference at all, it's at me, not at my African-American brothers, who were typically called by another word entirely in the pre-abolition South, one which nobody would consider using as a technical term for media drives.

Since I don't mind the use of the word "slave," and most other Europeans probably don't mind, you can feel free to go back to using it, LA County. Enjoy!

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

Good point, I'll change all my forms to read: GIVE IT TO ME, HARD.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[�nertia]

Hmm. I think rather than disapear they become tabooed, to disapear a word is next to impossible with our current technological documentation of language. To make a new one up is easy. =-)

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Trepidity]

that's a one-way converter though. the male to female conversion is more tricky, and less reversible.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[FunkyELF]

Better than in Tampa home of the infamous Mons Venus where they instantiated a 6 foot lap dance rule....you can have lap dances, but she has to be 6 feet away from you. I'm still trying to think of how that works

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Necrobruiser]

Great sig! Let the rabbits wear glasses!

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[joggle]

They're still called "gender benders" AFAIK. We have dozens of serial cable gender benders at work, although I never heard the term until working here.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[JabberWokky]

It doesn't help any that some dumbasses in the south still fly the confederate battle flag...

Yeah - those horrible people flying their state flag or taking pride in their ancestors. Unless you're from a non-western region, your ancestors are shameful, eh? It's not like the American south doesn't have a fine history of celebrated cuisine, music, arts and culture. Yes, it has racism. So does Mexican culture. Fucking Mexican immigrants with their flags on their cars, eh? Oh, no... in your words they are just "dumbasses" for taking pride in their ancestry that happens to have negative associations as well as positive ones. And can you believe the nerve of those people with pride in their Indian heritage... they have a class system! "Dumbasses" again, right?

--
Evan

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

phew, good thing Hitler came along

tee hee

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

In LA every cable must have equal amount of male and female ends.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

its LOSE you GOD DAMN MORON

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

Most regular folks are 'colorblind' these days.

You mean color visually impaired.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[1u3hr]

Which party has the most powerful black man in the world? (Clarence Thomas)

Please remember that "black" does not exclusively mean "African American". There are quite a few "powerful black men" in places, like, say Africa. Or if you mean "the USA" don't say "the world".

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[el-spectre]

I had a lengthy response to this... but I decided that I don't wanna get into this particular pissing contest.

One clarification: I never said anything about being stupid for having pride in ancestry. I decried the display of a symbol of imprisonment. There is a difference.

You may now rant away, but don't expect a response.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn straight. I own several human slaves and only one of them is black!

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[cpt kangarooski]

No, I was only talking about 80085 -- the others obviously have to be inverted, but 80085 works without inversion. I did grow up on seven-segment calculators, you know.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

I personally would like to see the word "motherboard" replaced with the more politically correct "caregiverboard"

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[bludger]

As a non-American, it didn't even occur to me that the problem they had with the master-slave couplet had anything to do with blacks and whites. I just thought that they were offended by the concept of slavery. If it is true that they see the master-slave relationship as being non other than the white-black relationship, then these people are truly racist.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Tekoneiric]

I'm a transgendered person and I would NOT take offence at the use of male, female or even gender changer. I see the humor in them, especially gender changer. ;)

I think that rule in LA county is nuts. There is such a thing as going to far at being politically correct. Although I think it would be funny to get slashdotters living in LA county to complain about various terms and words just to see how far they can be pushed before the county officals say enough. lol

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[jadavis]

Well, for the most part, powerful in the U.S. means powerful anywhere. I think people all across the political spectrum agree that the U.S.'s power eclipses that of any nation in Africa to such an extent that Clarence Thomas could reasonably be percieved more powerful than the leaders of any African nation.

If you have some evidence to the contrary, I'd be interested to hear it. However, it's fairly subjective, so maybe you consider the leaders over there more powerful.

There aren't too many nations out there with influence even in the same legue as the U.S., economically or militarily, and none in Africa come to mind.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

The permanent operation is called a "strapadictome"

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[jadavis]

busy calling people communists

Oh, come on. When people start talking about huge social programs, it's pretty easy to associate them with the communist party. Exaggeration? Yes. But it seems a lot like the McCarthyism label has been used for all the same purposes as the communism label, in a strange sort of irony. Rather than attack any policy specifically, you call him a McCarthyist and that's it. It's just as bad.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[1u3hr]

Clarence Thomas could reasonably be percieved more powerful than the leaders of any African nation

Can he declare war?

There aren't too many nations out there with influence even in the same legue as the U.S.,

The comparison wasn't between nations as a whole, but "powerful black men". If you had a black president, that would be another thing.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[FunkSoulBrother]

Wow.. last time I checked Supreme Court justices did not have party affiliations. Just...wow.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[JimBobJoe]

I'm offended by the word cheese, from now on, I want everyone to use fromage.

And while I am sympathetic to your sensibilities, I am deeply offended by renaming the item with a French word.

As I compromise, I heartily recommend that we call the curdy product "Freedom."

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[martingunnarsson]

Did you know the master connector on an 80 wire IDE cable is white (OK, light gray) and the slave one is black?

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[MechaStreisand]

Funny. At work, I called them "gender benders" too, but I thought I was ripping off a Futurama joke...

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Micro$will]

/me raises hand ...

I know! Ted Kennedy! Do I win a bottle of chivas and a Barney suit?

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[el-spectre]

Just so long as you're an equal opportunity tyrant... :)

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course you would.

That sentence doesn't make any sense.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

He wouldn't be racist, he would be regionist. ;)

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Qrlx]

the word "slave" itself comes from the same word as "Slav" i.e. people who live in that part of the world. At one time, being a Slav and being a slave was synonymous.

Source: Henri Pirenne, A History of Europe Vol. 1, p.64. Here's a blockquote, emphasis added, and where he says Sorbs I think that's Serbs today:

...From 807 onwards the other marches or marks were established along the Elbe and the Saale, barring the further progress of teh Slav tribes of the Wends, Sorabi (Sorbs) and Obodrites.

This frontier was at the same time - as the Rhine had been in the 4th and 5th centuries - the frontier between Christian Europe and the pagan world. It is interesting, as illustrating the religious ideas of the time, to note that on the fronteir there was a temporary revival of slavery. The Slavs, as pagans, were beyond the pale of humanity, and those who were taken prisoner were sold like cattle; and the word for slave in all Western languages (esclave, sklave, slaaf), is merely the name of the Slav people. For the people of the 9th and 10th century the "slave" was what the "black" was for the people of the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Qrlx]

I guess I have to serve Fromagey Freedom Fries at the Super Bowl party now. That should keep everybody happy.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

That's why they get to pick the president!

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[MillionthMonkey]

Which party has the most powerful black man in the world? (Clarence Thomas)

Supreme Court Justices are not supposed to have a political affiliation. Moreover, Thomas's opinion on any given matter is determined by Scalia, who effectively has two votes on the court.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[kinnell]

Hasn't this obsession with sanitizing speech become a total farce? What's next?

I predict that someone will ban the use of the colours "Black" and "White" because of their racist overtones.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[JabberWokky]

Your "symbol of imprisonment" is viewed quite differently by many who raise the Stars and Bars. Some people would say the Christian cross is a "symbol of oppression". That doesn't mean that the waitress who just served me is wearing hate jewelry. To her, it's a symbol of faith. To many Southerners, the Stars and Bars is a symbol of heritage. You're the one with the negative feelings regarding it, just as some people regard virtually any symbol as negative. Should we ban the American flag because some British dislike what they feel it stands for? Or visa versa? You may think it stands for something negative, but those who raise it as a symbol of pride in their culture do not. Again, it's a flag. Do you see the French flag as a "symbol of execution" because the guillotine killed so many during the revolution? Or the Spanish flag as a "symbol of imprisionment", callous to the Moors who were treated so horribly during the Spanish Inquisition?

All cultures have blood on their hands and shameful passages written in time. The symbol reflects the viewer's opinions. You are the one projecting the negative associations.

--
Evan

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Carton132]

You think that's bad, my slave drive is suing me for reparations.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree, at first it seemed very silly but how would people react if it was aryan/jew? Let's not forget that it's only 40 years ago african-american wheren't allowed to sit on the same seats as anglosaxian dito

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

If "slave" is a racial reference at all, it's at me, not at my African-American brothers, who were typically called by another word entirely in the pre-abolition South, one which nobody would consider using as a technical term for media drives.

But if it is a power saving drive, can we call it "niggardly"?

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[TiggsPanther]

Perhaps someone should send all 16 RFCs to L.A. County, along with an explanation of how the RFCs work as a way for keeping things standard.

The idea that one County, that's only a single part of one State, which is only a single part of one Country, should ask for different treatment by manufacturers when ti comes to internationally-used terms is just a little silly-seeming to me.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[TiggsPanther]

Um, does anyone else think that referring to master and slave as perjorative terms associated with race is MUCH more offensive than using the terms to refer to hard drives?

Yes.

Actually, an odd thought has just occured to me.
People complain when Techie-types use technical jargon to describe things, and that they can't understand. Now a Master/Slave relationship would make it pretty clear that one IDE device is dominant over the other. Yet people are bitching.

Tiggs

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[SamSim]

Isn't the person who even thought of this the worst kind of bigot?

I read all the way down to this post before I twigged that the reason they'd banned the master/slave terms was due to race issues.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[julesh]

I think you misread his post. 'When' in that context isn't asking "how long needs to pass after slavery was abolished" as I think you read it, judging by your comment, but rather "in what particular situations", which is a substantially different and altogether more interesting question.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

If speling were a fellony you woulld be put away for llife.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

How many black engineers, programmers, designers do you see roaming around your hallways? Okay - not counting foreigners, etc. I'm talking AMERICAN BLACKS. Not cooks, not post deliverers. Qualified comp sci majors. Is the percentage low? Well, I'm all for lowering the walls of prejudice that come in SUBTLE FORMS. For gods sake, we're in the new millenium, and there is still a lot of social changes that need to take place, no??? Am I wrong? Also, hasn't anyone ever heard of rhetorical or logical fallacies, like using an emotional argument, etc.. in debate class? Hello? I know computer majors are single minded WHITE MEN, probably TOO TRADITIONAL to see outside into the bold new future(some old traditions are good: apple pie... but some old traditions are not good - like height discrimination, fat\ugly bald discrimination, smoker\non-smoker, socio-economic background, ethnicity, age, race, sexual discrimination, etc...), but try to expand conceptually, for the love and sake of argument. And, heh... okay I can see your points (horny bastards), but seriously, if the master was called "goddess" and the slave "idiot boy," you white boys would see how ridiculous it is to use master\slave, how imperative it was to change the wording asap. Oh yeah, now you're saying, hells bells, I've never seen the word goddess in any networking manuals... that's ridiculous... well, have you ever seen master or slave in any rap lyrics? Wording should be more business-like, eh? To something which is a little less emotionally charged. As I can guarentee most of the responses are from white men. I can see why most responses are the standard mob mentality "Er why change something if it ain't broke?" All in all, I'm sure everyone agrees you want to encourage open communication - with all races. It is a well known fact that boy's toys are very insinuating, hmm I think I'll go home and caulk my sink, to I have to screw it into that hole.. okay so master and slave isn't that erotic for African American. It's just too emotionally tainted.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[ShadowBlasko]

Damn, My mod points expired yesterday.

Best, movie, ever!

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

Baaaaa!

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[carndearg]

I once caused a shocked silence once when I shouted across the room to another tech to see if he had a male to male gender bender.
The reason? I was a student sound and lighting tech at the time and we were putting up a rig for a benefit concert... for Hull University Student Lesbian and Gay Committee and I needed to connect together 2 female 3 pin XLR connectors. OOps!
To be fair to the HUULG&B people, once it was explained to them they thought it was really funny. In my experience people who are actually in one of the groups the politically correct types try to defend are usually a lot more laid back about it.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[giel]

So in the near future we'll have to choose one of the following operating modes for our harddrives:

• white male
• afroamerican
• single white male

And if we can choose between male and female connectors we should prefer to use a female one.
ehm...

Never mind.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[CptWheel]

if male/female terms would ever be made (or considered so) terms offending a person's sex, how would underwear businesses promote men or women underwear? or will they be forced to create some kind of uni-sex underwear?

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Alan Partridge]

"They had a similar relationship to the KKK that Sinn Fein has to the IRA. They are basically two sides to the same coin, the public acceptable face is used for recruiting and the other side of the coin does the threats and murder."

Sinn Fein and the IRA are on the SAME side of that coin. Murderers all.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[BillX]

But 'Enter', or 'Insert', etc., could be taken in an obscene context as well. Maybe they should all just say 'Disney'.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[mog007]

If you feel so adament about that... get RAID, or SCSI or something...

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

No, I'd have to say it's far more likely that an African American mechanic working for the "man" will decide it's completely intolerable to use the terms "master" and "slave" cylinder to describe the function of two parts of an automobile brake system. Why not go with a Marxist view and call the cylinders "rich" and "poor". Or maybe that won't work either as the next overly sensitive African American mechanic that comes along will associate the blight of being poor with his skin color and complain anyway. I tried.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

How do you think this works? If you go to the police to report a crime, do you think they'll just say "Oh well, says you! Go away unless you've collected the evidence for us!"

Idiot.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

Source: Henri Pirenne, A History of Europe Vol. 1, p.64. Here's a blockquote, emphasis added, and where he says Sorbs I think that's Serbs today:

Nope, the Sorbs are different people. They settle in Lusatia (Lausitz).

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[etrnl]

On my local writing community, we went the other way as a joke... changing from "Preview" / "Submit" to "Dominate" / "Submit".

Until someone complained that they hated to submit, at which point I changed it to "Preview" and "Post".

--etrnl--

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[kfg]

Speaking of good and holy it is also against the tenets of certain religions to submit in any even trifling way to anything but God.

On the other hand ENTER has definate sexual overtones.

OK is an endorsment of party politics (Old Kinderhook- Martin Van Buren. Some people still feel an intense dislike for the Jacksonian era and we shouldn't infringe upon their feelings in such a manner).

Nope, I'm sorry, but once we enter the swimmy waters of liguistic sympathetic magic no word is really safe.

L.A. has more on its hand than it might suspect though. The term master/slave is well spread outside the computer industry as well.

I hearby propose alternative terms for master/slave relationships not rooted in politically sensitive jargon and as example, ummm. . . submit, this sentence overheard down at the county garage for your approval:

"Yeah, it's the brakes. The Ass Fucking cylinder is leaking so the Bitches are only sucking air."

KFG

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Silburn_Luke]

Of course Serbia/Serbians used to be Servia/Servians but the old spelling was felt to be a little too close to 'servile' back in 1914 when gallant little Serbia was an Entente ally. Edwardian PC in action... Regards Luke

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Zemran]

but I think you are assuming that human slaver

When I was in the US (CA in fact) I was surprised at what I found. The racism and what I saw as slavery was all over. A black man can get away with killing his wife but it is fine to have a Mexican working as a labourer and sleeping on your garage floor. I know the background but I saw many Mexicans treated exactly like slaves. The fact that there would be a public outcry if you treated a black person this way is in itself racist. I came back from Mexico with an American friend and although I was the foreigner it was him that was badly treated because he is of Mexican descent. Whenever I saw anyone doing manual work in CA it was always a Mexican.

But we must change the words that we use ??? Why not stop the racism and slavery first!!!

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[spincycle1953]

The offensive message of the rebel flag is indeed that those who fly it are proud of what it stands for; and that ain't barbeque and Eudora Welty. The stars and bars is the battle flag of those who would rather destroy the great American union of states than give up their self proclaimed right to own humans. Descendants of formerly owned people do not want to be reminded either by hooligans or state governments of that past. Conservative Americans, who believe in our "One Nation", don't much care for it either.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[shaitand]

I suggest that the industry leave terms just the way they are and if LA doesn't like it, LA doesn't need hardware. They can go right back to the stoneage if they want to, there is a big world out there and it all needs hardware. It's not like hardware manufacturers NEED to sell to L.A. county to survive. Most of them wouldn't even see a significant number flux.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

Hasn't this obsession with sanitizing speech become a total farce?

No, it's the wussification of America. Personally I blame the 1960's for all this crap. Between the civil rights movement, the women's movement, and all other kinds of crazy radical groups demanding that the minority's voice should be heard louder than the silent majority. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I advocate discrimination and slavery, I'm just saying that in a democratic society, which these same people claim to love and cherish, the majority rules. In the last 40 years the majority has done nothing but roll over like wounded puppies time after time lest we look like insensitive oppressors.

What we have these days is a tyranny of the minority, and not in a race sense, but in the sense that a minority of people can whine and bitch about something and expect the majority to just roll over and do their bidding. Take this case in point. It was probably one or two whining idiots who didn't like the term so they demanded the entire county ban it. Not wanting to seem like racists they rolled right over. Whatever man. I'm just really sick and tired of being discriminated against because I'm a middle class white man for god's sake. Oh right, and I'm a christian on top of it! People like me account for over 70% of the population yet I have to feel like *I'm* doing something wrong, or that I'm somehow evil because we're the majority. WTF?

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

Slavery has been around for millenia, as anything from a way to pay off a debt (fairly rare, and different from indentured servants) to the penalty for losing a battle in war.

This is NOT a concept that is 'owned' by any one group of people.

Don't tell that to a dumb black chick, she'll freak out. To them slavery didn't exist until negroes were used in America. Yet, tell them that there was rampant slavery BETWEEN TRIBES in Africa and that other tribes were the ones selling off the slaves to the "white man" and they'll freak again.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[cdrudge]

And remember that `cleaver' spelled backwards is revaelc...hmm...I guess it only works with `strap on'. Feel free to mod me up to 5 though.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

if you call it Freedom, then China will be offended. Call it "fhe8sh3l3hs8fhsleyhrf8h"

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

Cute, but you missed the real reason why Byrd is not attacked by the Democratis and the NAACP. He *is* a Democrat and the NAACP is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Democratic Party.

If Thurmond and Helms were to convert to the Democratic Party, you'd see a whole lot of whining about their alleged racial misdeeds vanish overnight.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[ccarson]

I hate PC BS. These liberals are getting under my nerves. Don't tell me I'm racist. I'm just trying to do my job. Shut up and get back to work.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Seabhag]

Do some more research on WHAT the Stars and Bars stood for. I used to feel the same as you did.. Untill I went and read for myself what the leaders and common people at the time felt about it. Even the people from other nations understood what it REALLY stood for. One of Abraham Lincon's campaign promises was to NOT abolish slavery. The Civil War was about the fact that the Northern States were keeping the South under a tight economic fist. Ie.. The Federal Government had imposed very high tarrifs on anything industrial coming into the Southern ports but low tarrifs on those same goods coming into the Northern Ports. Basically the Northern States gave the South no way to get out of their own slavery or a way to do things differently so that they could release the slaves that they had (NOTE: I DO NOT AGREE WITH SLAVERY). The first forts that the South attacked (Ft. Sumter (sp?), etc) were TAX FORTS.. That is they were attempting to remove the place where importers were required to pay those high terrifs. The reason why the North played the "Slavery" card is that Brittin was looking at helping the South and they Brit's had already abolished slavery; and the North attempted to make it that if they entered the Civil War they would be seen as helping the side of slavery.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

Enter is kind of suggestive.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[srw]

>What's next? Will we not be able to have male and female ends on our 1/4" audio cable for fear of offending the transgendered?

Too late. When I was in tech school 10 years ago I learned the PC terms are jack (or was it plug?) and receptacle. Of course, most of us used "male" and "female" as it made more sense to us.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[mwood]

"The Civilian Conservation Corps.?"

No, the Cosmic Construction Corps.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

I remember explaining the male/female connector thing once to a female co-worker.

Pretty easy, just hold up one of each and say 'You figure it out'.

I knew she 'got it' when she picked up two sockets, held them together and shouted "Oooh! Lesbians!"

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[matticus]

no-the Sorbs are an indigenous Slavic minority in the area of Bautzen and Spreewald in eastern Germany, about an hour drive from where I live. Their language is on all the signs in that area.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[mwood]

[IBM mainframe "slave" drives sync.ed to master's speed]

Sounds bogus to me. The motors in those old washing-machine sized drives were locked to multiples of the powerline frequency, so they'd be in sync. without any collusion. (3600RPM if memory serves) Power companies are *good* at long-term frequency stability.

But you did remind me of the J2/J3 powerup sequencers on DEC drives (and other large gear), which could be chained to start one after another to avoid popping the breaker by throwing all those big motor starting transients onto the circuit concurrently. It was mildly amusing to watch a big system come to life as various bits turned on and then passed the torch to the next in line.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Mysticalfruit]

Actually, I've had this happen.

I learned me lession that day... don't try to be technical with users, they have very small brains.

Needless to say, the woman called HR because she thought my terminology for the different connectors ("male" / "female") and the converter ("gender bender") were offense.

Okay, so maybe referring to connecting the ethernet cable as "getting the cat5 freak on" was a little out of line, but seriously, she over reacted.

I guess it didn't help we referred to viruses as FTD's (Floppy transmitted dieseases)

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Mawbid]

The people at experts-exchange.com are smarter. They're very very careful to always put something between "experts" and "exchange" :-)

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[mwood]

"More importantly, when we stop using the word, will people forget what slavery is and just make all the same mistakes?"

Probably. And then they'll invent a new word for it. And eventually others will figure out what it means and be offended all over again.

It's like the process by which sexual and scatological terms multiply. People who want or need to talk about such things keep coming up with new words when the old ones are declared improper by those who want to prevent others having such thoughts. The inevitable result is a language rich in "dirty" words, rather than one scrubbed clean of uncomfortable ideas.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Zeinfeld]

Sinn Fein and the IRA are on the SAME side of that coin. Murderers all.

It is astonishing how quickly the Irish bars in Boston suddenly removed all mention of NORAID round about 9/12 of 2001. Ex-pat irridentism suddenly seemed to lose its romantic appeal.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[4of12]

Can he declare war?

Clarence Thomas' votes certainly have a broad and long lasting impact in the United States. His actions don't seem comparable in severity to the impact of Robert Mugabe, who is destroying Zimbabwe piece by piece.

However, some might argue that the SCOTUS ruling in the 2000 U.S. Presidential election indirectly led to the war in Iraq by chain of events.

Even though the final ruling was 7-2, there seemed to be a 5-4 split earlier in the decision making process.

Had Thomas been in the opposite camp, event may have turned out quite differently.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[devnull17]

They can't tell people not to use the terms. But they can refuse to do business with anyone who continues to use them. I agree that it's retarded, and most of the L.A. County staffers involved would probably agree. But in the litigious society that we live in, you simply can't afford to run the risk of an enormous lawsuit. Especially in today's economy. It's not like local governments have tons of cash to throw around...

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Zeinfeld]

>disqualified tens of thousands of legitimate qualified voters
Ya know you just contradicted yourself there? And you wonder why it was so easy it was to make an argument against you...

Not at all, in the first place fellons are not disqualified in Florida. The whole process was illegal. In the second the way the voter rolls were 'scrubbed' was to disqualify voters who happened to have the same name as someone who had been convicted, or a similar name. No attempt was made to check that legitimate voters were not disenfranchised.

The investigation following the election showed that the vast majority of the people purged from the electoral rolls were actually qualified to vote.

This is not the only electoral malpractice that Katherine Harris engaged in. She also allowed a GOP operative to sit in the returning officer's office and 'correct' applications for postal ballots from Republicans. The Democrats asked for and were refused the same right.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Chelloveck]

Too late. A friend of mine is an IT consultant. He's run into exactly that sort of problem with male and female connectors and an uptight customer.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

LA County has made it a racial issue. Once somebody plays the race card, it's in play until the holder folds or goes broke.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

Except that Thurmond is dead and Helms is retired.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Tackhead]

> I thought the first amendment rights superceded such non-sense anyhow. I'll call it whatever the hell I want. Arbitrarily picking words to be offended with is a very silly practice. I'm offended by the word cheese, from now on, I want everyone to use fromage. Isn't that about the same caliber.

What? Caliber? I'm calling the Office of Diversity and Tolerance and having you fired! Guns are baaaaaad, mmmmmkay!

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

"Looking like I do (big white boy, irish/scottish background), people assume I'm a racist"

I know how you feel. People assume I'm in the mafia or something because of my Sicilian background, the long coats I like to wear, and the large ring I wear on my left hand (my class ring, although nobody actually looks enough to notice.

It makes me so mad when they do this I want to have my caporegime break his legs.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

The CSA battle flag and the Stars and Bars only existed for a brief time to defend slavery, and was only added to state flags after that time. Before that, none of those states had flags that even suggested the battle flag, and only one had a falg simmilar to the Stars and Bars (and it got rid of it and replaced it with the more recognized battle flag anyway).

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[stry_cat]

What's even worse is having to explain it to the new girl at Radio Shack. She was the first idiot I've ever met there. She thought I was making it up until one of her coworkers chimed in.

The comment about male/female ends being the next target of PC speach police is right on target. With this level of knowledge out there any dumb idea will easily get implemented.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

there is a debate about weather Kennedy actualy supported it or not. he died before he could have a chance to decided, so we will never really know. we have what he said in public, and what people who knew him say he said in private. each support one oppinion or the other.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[karlandtanya]

Male and Female ends

Heh...

About seven or so years ago, I worked with an engineering co-op who was uncomfortable with that nomenclature.

She referred to the connectors as type "A" and type "B". Because if they were male and female, then when you put them together...what are they doing?

She wasn't belligerant about, and we respected her squeamishness (she was pretty young).

But, yeah. It's coming.

Can we still say "coming"?

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[HTH NE1]

Better than in Tampa home of the infamous Mons Venus where they instantiated a 6 foot lap dance rule....you can have lap dances, but she has to be 6 feet away from you. I'm still trying to think of how that works

I think it involves a glass ceiling.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[olderchurch]

"the spin speeds of multiple drives should ideally synchronise to the master in order to minimise vibration"

I sure hope not. Synchronizing the discs will mean the vibration will double.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[maomoondog]

Eh, for what it's worth I think the issue is that the government is actively supporting the practice by paying for the equipment. First amendment applies to what you do with your own mouth 'n dough, not what the gov't pays you for. Not that this makes the whole thing any less stupid / depressing / damaging to language and society...

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Chewie]

You've got to be kidding me. Let's see, I'm the president, and I have a certain agenda. I get to appoint someone to the SCOTUS *for life*. Do I

A) Truly pick a moderate judge who will examine the letter *and* intent of the law, and make a decision accordingly, or do I

B) Pick a judge who has a history of interpreting the law in a direction that favors my personal agenda (BTW, a SCOTUS appointment is quite the plum, and is a favor that will not be soon forgotten).

While they do not officially have any party affiliation, they *do* have definite political leanings. Because they're human.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[dnoyeb]

Typically the ones that loose the war are not allowed to fly their flags. Anyone that stands against the union of states can be put to death for Treason.

What are people trying to say when they fly that flag? Asside from the racist overtones?

I do believe the confederate flag contributed to our current flag. So flying that flag, especially on the State level is an affront to the USA and those who died to win The Civil War.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

Is the county name "Los Angeles" sensitive to the creeds of all manufacturers? Maybe all shipments should be halted until L A is in compliance. *SIGH* Think if I spout enough stupidity of my own they'll just change their minds?

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Experiment 626]

The result was that Nixon got elected and the Republican party became the party of pandering to racists. I have no idea why they wanted to do that, long term it is a major handicap. Population trends are not good for the Republican party.

I disagree. I think that on the whole, if you were to take a sampling across the political spectrum and ask whether people should be treated the same regardless of their race or color, you would get a lot more "yes" replies from Republicans. Democrats, on the other hand, would reject this philosophy in favor of an affirmative-action approach, swinging the pendulum of discrimination the other way instead of putting it behind us once and for all. Unfortunately for them, I think the former position has broader (though perhaps less vocal) support among mainstream voters.

So if by "racists" you mean Nazis and Klan members, then perhaps they do vote Republican, but if you look at racism in the broader sense of basing the treatment and opportunities you give to people on the color of their skin, then the Democratic party would certainly be the larger bastion for racism in America.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[darkscorp]

For a good read on this topic, check out: Disposable People

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Qrlx]

Cool, thanks. (Obviously) I didn't know that. I thought it was just a translation artifact, like when Pirenne keeps talking about the Musulmans.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[elemental23]

They aren't claiming it's race-related at all. The problem is that "master" and "slave" apparently suggests BDSM to the easily-offended (think "dominant" and "submissive").

Just as stupid? Of course.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[mpe]

Their job is to make sure the cops get paid and the street lights work. It is NOT to re-invent Think-Speak.

Sounds like they are too busy listening to various political preasure groups. Yet another reason not to have "professional politicans", who are so out of touch with reality that they can't recognise nutcases with axes to grind.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[SatanicPuppy]

I didn't really want to say anything about Reagan except that he was a democrat until he sided with McCarthy and switched parties...Well, I wanted to imply he was a racist too, but that was just an amusing cheap shot.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[nlm39]

It makes me sick that our society caters to the ignorant people. How much longer is it going to be before we cant even refer to the color black. We'll have to call it a darker shade of blue.... It is becoming a sad and sorry world....

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[DickBreath]

How the hell am I supposed to shop for wires now?

Wires are okay if you just castrate the connectors off.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Patrik_AKA_RedX]

IMO there should be a way to punish politicians who waste time with PC word changing. If they can't actually solve a problem they shouldn't have taken the job and they shouldn't try to cover their incompetence with this waste of time.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Jhon]

I'm against term limits on general principle. I believe the actual problem lies with an ill informed (or uninformed) constituency. People just don't take the time to (A) keep up with ANY issues (local, state or national) and/or (B) ONLY look at the little letter after the name (R or D).

The crack-smoking councilmember who motioned that the LA City Council condemn the US invasion of Iraq should have been voted out of office the last election. How DARE they waste my tax dollars on topics irrelevant to their adgenda (the running and maintainance of our city). The problem is, he wasn't. Nor was any member who voted for it called to task.

The problem lies with the voter, not the office holder. We, as a group, get what we deserve. With the referendum, at least the "informed" have some venue.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[IronTomFlint]

Should the possible offence, in this case, almost non-existent

Slavery, "non-existent"? Ha!

Not if what this guy says is right: he estimates 27 million people in slavery today. There are slaves in the Islamic countries; there are slaves in China; there are slaves in Africa.

Slavery's not gone. It's just hiding from you.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[toriver]

A well-dressed person of any color

Dressist!

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[sharkdba]

When will it be okay to use the word 'slave'? It has a fairly distinct meaning.

What? So there is a meaning of this word outside of hardware configuration context???

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[evilviper]

What's next? Will we not be able to have male and female ends on our 1/4" audio cable for fear of offending the transgendered? How the hell am I supposed to shop for wires now?

Actually, I think the next thing is to make it illegial to use that word that describes that big round thing on the top of your neck, due to the term also reffering to ``Lewd Sex Acts''.

Just about every politician is a spineless weasle, so make sure you know who's behind these things in your area, and vote for the opposition next time around.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[JabberWokky]

I do believe the confederate flag contributed to our current flag. So flying that flag, especially on the State level is an affront to the USA and those who died to win The Civil War.

Some of the state flags in the South pull from the Stars and Bars. Look at Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, or the old Georgia flag. For that matter, the same debate that we are having here was raised in Georgia. Some people looked at it as racist, some as a symbol of heritage.

Ask someone from the South if flying the flag is an affront to those that lost their lives.

Typically the ones that loose the war are not allowed to fly their flags.

The war we are speaking of, however, was a nearly even internal split between states that had nearly soverign status. We are a United States. The "losers" were also part of the "winners". Had the state lines been redrawn, it would have been different. There was no "regim change".

What are people trying to say when they fly that flag? Asside from the racist overtones?

I see, at a glance, no racist overtones. I do not deny that others do, or that if I muse on the south, I think of it. But my kneejerk response is to think of the positive aspects of the South. I see pride in a united culture where small talk occurs before work talk, where the pace of life is a little slower, where hunting is a matter of fact rather than a matter of debate, where I can order kale and grits with good smoked ribs for lunch.

In short, while you stand outside and look at the symbol and see racism against blacks, remember that there is a good deal more to the South. Yes, the racism is still recent; recent enough so there are living examples of what once was. But the French do not look at their culture and think of the bloodly guillotine, the Spanish do not see the Spanish Inquisition, and Americans that look at their flag do not turn their head in shame because of the way the Native Americans were massacred. No... you look at your flag with pride. Likely you have a state, province or other local flag that you can look at with pride as well, despite knowing that there were atrocities within the regional borders.

When the Stars and Bars are raised, most know that there will be racist overtones ascribed by some, just as the Stars and Stripes will have imperialistic and cultural supremicist overtones to many. That does not disqualify nor negate the pride in a symbol that also represents a fine and cultured land that, like every other history, is full of both shameful and glorious events.

--
Evan

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Dyolf Knip]

The intent was not to 'sanitize' lap dances. Prohibition, for instance, didn't outlaw drinking alcohol. It only made it illegal to make it, transport it, import it, export it, sell it, think about it, and talk about it. It was still perfectly legal to have, it was just technically impossible to do so legally.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

I disagree. I think that on the whole, if you were to take a sampling across the political spectrum and ask whether people should be treated the same regardless of their race or color, you would get a lot more "yes" replies from Republicans. Democrats, on the other hand, would reject this philosophy in favor of an affirmative-action approach, swinging the pendulum of discrimination the other way instead of putting it behind us once and for all.

Of course, that argument only works if you believe the Republican/right-wing definition of "discrimination". Democrats/left-wingers would respond that if we treated people exactly the same (in the legal sense) then minorities would continue to be discriminated against far more than others, thus giving them systematically fewer opportunities, and that Affirmative Action laws bring the country closer to giving everyone a similar amount of opportunities.

It's the old "level playing field" issue. Two teams have to play on an unlevel field. Is it okay to level the field somehow (making the benefitting team play with one less person, perhaps)? In one sense, this clearly makes the game more "fair", but in another sense, it clearly benefits only one team, not the other, and as such is "unfair".

A far more fair description of Republican vs. Democratic views on this issue would be the following: Republicans generally believe that the act of making laws which benefit one group over the other is not "fair", or is not "treating people the same", while Democrats generally think that not making laws to give more opportunities to people who are percieved to have fewer is not "fair" and not "treating people the same" (obviously, there are exceptions on both sides). One side (the Democrats) think that it's only fair to level the field, while the other (the Republicans) think that you shouldn't give an advantage to either team and should just play the game.

Not that I don't have a strong opinion on this issue, but I don't think that the debate over the meaning of "discrimination" has been won yet. Certainly if you define discrimination in terms of "treatment and opportunities" (and you did), then it's not clear at all that as a whole, Affirmative Action or similar laws are discriminatory. The reason being simply that people do still discriminate. If nothing else, the continuing success of anti-discrimination lawsuits proves that (I think Wal-Mart was the latest?) Anyway, people are almost certainly more discriminatory towards those individuals who are helped by Affirmative Action. This last statement is awfully unspecific. To really prove it, I'd have to present all kinds of evidence, and I really don't feel like doing that much work. :) So here's the short version. When was the last time you heard about someone specifically going out and attacking white people? I hear about plenty of violence against minorities, from those white suburban kids in San Diego who went looking for some Mexican laborers to beat up to the violence against Arabs which continued well after 9/11 proper. We've all heard of the KKK, but what exactly is the anti-white group in this country? Have you ever heard of "straight-bashing" or heard a kid insult someone by calling then "a hetero"? Have they ever erected a statue of the Torah or the Buddah at the front of a courthouse? And so on...

Anyway, my point is that Affirmative Action laws probably do, on the whole, allow people who would otherwise have fewer opportunities to get closer to having as many as everyone else. Yes, those opportunities do have to be taken from somebody, and that may look unfair to the person paying the price, but on the whole one cannot simply call them "discriminatory".

So, with everything taken into account, is one group of people getting more opportunities? Are Affirmitave Action laws going too far (entirely possible, but not yet proven)? _That's_ the big question. It's not even close to being resolved yet. The only thing that you can be certain of in a s

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[idahogie]

I think that on the whole, if you were to take a sampling across the political spectrum and ask whether people should be treated the same regardless of their race or color, you would get a lot more "yes" replies from Republicans.

Of course. Conservatives want to believe that the racism problem has been solved (except for a few holdovers, who can be dealt with on a case-by-case basis).

Democrats, on the other hand, would reject this philosophy in favor of an affirmative-action approach, swinging the pendulum of discrimination the other way instead of putting it behind us once and for all.

The purpose of affirmative action is to counter-act the existing institutional biases that favor whites in this country. Nobody advocates that the pendulum needs to swing the other way. If you believe that affirmative action swings the pendulum too far, then you must think that an objective white person would be happy to trade places with any protected racial minority. If you can find a single white person who believes that, then I'll believe you.

Unfortunately for them, I think the former position has broader (though perhaps less vocal) support among mainstream voters.

Less vocal? Are you watching Fox or something?

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[�nertia]

Hrmph, I think that they should encorage standards through publication of guidelines. Banning anything is stupid, let alone language. See my other thread for thoughts

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[ShieldW0lf]

You didn't read the article, did you... that was a direct quote from the letter sent to suppliers

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

No, that is your interpretation of the difference between conservative and liberal approaches to racism.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[ballantrae]

You have a point that there is an injustice done here. BUT - you MUST NOT say that the two are the same or even equivalent. There is a terrible danger in doing so. The same danger exists, (maybe worse I think) incidentally in overly praising everyone we meet. Truthfully, one can argue that the enormity of the abuse you referred to is a terrible thing. But we have to show the relative level of such things, I'm sure you already heard this and know it well. If you'd like to chat, feel free to drop me a line. later, -ron

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[overbom]

yes, but that particular excellent technical solution only converts from female to male.

the male to female converters, they cost a lot of money.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[elemental23]

Actually no, I didn't read this particular article before posting, but I read about this somewhere else a couple days ago. That story suggested the alleged BDSM reference is what offended someone.

The letter doesn't say specifically what the problem is, but use of the word "discriminatory" suggests it could be racial (although a bigger stretch, IMO), so the first article may have been wrong.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[caitsith01]

Ah yes, the old 'affirmative action is punishing men and white people' argument, AKA the "I didn't have any slaves personally and I have never oppressed women myself so don't expect me to make any concessions" philosophy.

Look, can you really call it 'treating people as equal' if you oppress a group for several centuries until your group has almost all the wealth and power, then suddenly one day stop the oppression and announce that everyone is equal? Do the formerly oppressed people go home that night to a big house and a nice shiny car that has suddenly been conjured into existence because 'equality' has swept away centuries of socio-economic discrimination?

If you really want to say people should be treated as equals, you should put your money where your mouth is. When there have been several generations in which propotionally as many non-whites and women have had access to the same educational opportunities, financial and employment security, and positions of power and influence as white men enjoy today, then sure, let's treat everyone equally. But what you are referring to is simply a legal/moral right against discrimination on the basis of race - not the elimination of the entrenched inequalities that flow from hundreds of years of oppression.

An example - why is congress made up of large hordes of sweaty fat white men, a few women, and a few members of minorities? Women and minorities both have the same right to run for office as everyone else. Therefore, there is some factor connected to their status as women or minority group members that prevents them from being as successful as white males. I think this basically requires one of the following conclusions. Either:

- women and minorities are inherently less able to perform the tasks required of a congressman (e.g. selling out to special interest groups, sitting in a chair doing nothing)

or

- there is some form of entrenched social, political or economic inequality that prevents women and minorities from realistically accessing the same opportunities as white men.

My money's on the latter, and I'm a white male to boot.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[ThisIsFred]

As an American, it didn't even occur to me that this law was constitutional.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[SlashSim]

There are very good reasons for some connectors to be male, some female, some hermaphrodite and some asexual.

Imagine how carefully you would have to pick up the end of an extension cable if your house had male jacks on the wall.

Chicago fittings on air lines are asexual but are designed to be impossible to disconnect while pressurised.

Wierdness in connectors might just be a feature protecting against some possible danger. On the other hand, it could just be crappy design.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

Henceforth, my drives are referred to as Pimp/Ho

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[cpt kangarooski]

Imagine how carefully you would have to pick up the end of an extension cable if your house had male jacks on the wall.

I dunno about that -- I'm almost certain I've seen some foreign AC wall jacks that included a male end. Possibly though we could just have that be the ground?

Wierdness in connectors might just be a feature protecting against some possible danger. On the other hand, it could just be crappy design.

True -- I'm mostly thinking of external data cables. SCSI, USB, Firewire, serial, and the like.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's say I can well understand the sensitivity of the issue. In my country the concept of slavery was abolished 1280, and since that date the word "slave" has had a very sinister echo.

We prefer instead of speaking "masters" and "servants". A servant, yes, obeys and does the menial tasks for the master, but servant is free, s/he has job contract and s/he gets paid. "Servant" does not have the same degrading implication as "slave". Nothing to do with race nor nationality, but human rights.

As transgendered go, I have a transsexual colleague, and she has no problem on speaking about "male" and "female", or "boy" and "girl" connectors.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[atgrim]

You must be freaking stupid or just one of those "Pop-Culturally Correct". You obviously did not read the story. Let's take this point for point...

"...but at some point in their past, the families had pledged themselves to unpaid labor in return for loans of money."

This part sounds an awfull lot like a bank loan. You go to the bank, say "I need money for ." Bank says "Sure, we charge this interest rate and have these processing fees." You say "That sounds good." Merry Christmas, you have just agreed to be in debt. Don't even try and tell me that it isn't the same. Just because they are working to repay the debt, does not mean that they are in Slavery. Look to Japan for another example. Housing is in such high demand and there is so little of it, that now mortgage companies over there are offering 99 year home loans. Guess what kids. Think that loan will be repaid in the lives of the original loanees?? Hmm??

Next set...

"After three months, the group had enough to pay off the loan against which Meera was bonded. She began earning money for her work, which greatly increased the amount she could contribute to the group. In another two months, another woman was freed; the following month, a third came out of bondage."

In this instance a group of people banded together to help each other get out from under the debt. That is awesome! That actually reaffirms my faith that humanity can work together to each others benefit without resorting to a Socialistic System. However the key point here is that THEY PAID OFF THE DEBT!!!! Happy New Year you now own your home because you had enough common sense to put aside a little bit extra from your paycheck AND applied it to the principle of the loan! Wow. Economics. Gotta love it. :-)

Next...

"At that point, the other members, seeing that freedom was possible, simply renounced their debts and declared themselves free."

This is commonly referred to as BANKRUPTCY. However, they apparently did not file the correct paperwork because...

"The moneylenders quickly moved against them, threatening them and driving them from the quarries."

This is generally what happens when you DON'T pay your bills. Whether you think they are just or not is irrelevent(sp?). Sorry Joe HomeOwner, you didn't pay your mortgage so we are forced to foreclose on OUR home. You do realize that unless you completely pay off your homeloan/carloan/stereo loan that you do not own it, right? ;-)

Next...

"His master called him "my halvaha," meaning "my bonded plowman."

Ok, this one is easy. Let's look at the word BONDED...

Definition: \Bond"ed\, a. Placed under, or covered by, a bond, as for the payment
of duties, or for conformity to certain regulations.

Hmmm. Looks like Joe Plowman up there owed monies or goods of some sort. Again, this sounds like a normal business transaction. Only that all the "legal" terms have been replaced with ugly terms. I guess that is where political correctness comes in. ;-) Also, because he did not have enough courage, fortitude and perseverence to make it on his own, he re-bonded himself.

"After my wife received this money, we paid off our debt and were free to do whatever we wanted. But I was worried all the time--what if one of the children got sick? What if our crop failed? What if the government wanted some money? Since we no longer belonged to the landlord, we didn't get food every day as before. Finally, I went to the landlord and asked him to take me back. I didn't have to borrow any money, but he agreed to let me be his halvaha again. Now I don't worry so much; I know what to do."

In other words he GOT A JOB!!!

Just because you are living in a country that has become so incredibly sanitized in our speech, do not assume that you know what the hell is going on!! You are ignorant of your OWN plight in this land. Do you have a car loan? How about a house loan? Wh

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[mjordankeane]

I think that the Master/Slave drives names should be replaced with Bureaucrat/The Public. Because, I know that those LA County officials would love to 'slave' The Public to their Bureaurocracy.

Also, I do want to thank LA County. It gives me the opportunity to feel superior, a very rare opportunity, without the burden of considering myself a bigot. I mean it's "Black and White." Tee hee.

I'm a good and thoughtful person, and you LA Bureaurocrats are scum.

Yeah me!!!

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Hookahphus]

L.A. will have to wait their turn. Peta has been after the hardware community for close to a decade now over mouse balls. And now, thanks to technological advancements, (optics) mice can stop sweating.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem with your idea is that you are implying that by using a specific word that happens to be used in another context that you are in doing so supporting that other thing.

This is similar to the logic that since all cats are mammals, and Socrates was a mammal, that Socrates must have been a cat.

Try and grow up about this, there are far more useful things to splutter and whine about, like stopping that slavery itself, rather than bitching about somebody using the terminology in a very accurate way in a computer system...

Next thing we know, people like you are going to be outcrying for suffrage of computers because we make them work all the time... "The machines must be free!11!!"

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

If you read Tanenbaum's Modern Operating Systems, motherboard is referred as parentboard.

on page 33 (2nd edition):

Every Pentium contains a parentboard (formerly called motherboard before political correctness hit the computer industry).

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[SETIGuy]

You must be freaking stupid or just one of those "Pop-Culturally Correct". You obviously did not read the story. Let's take this point for point...

Wow, name calling. How adult of you.

Selling oneself into "bonded" labor is no different than indentured servitude. Slavery is slavery even if you sell yourself. That you could call it "a business contract" doesn't change that is is both unethical and illegal. In many cases, it is the family of the slave that is paid (especially in the case of girls sold for the sex trade.)

"Bonded" laborers are often forced to live in housing owned their "employers" and are charged rates for food and rent that extend the term of the servitude indefinitely.

There's more than just a difference of degree. Yes, I have a home loan. No, I don't work for the bank without pay. The bank may be able to take the house should I fail to pay, but they aren't entitled to my labor, or that of my children. The bank has no say in where I live, what I eat, where I work, or even if I work.

Not that the U.S. doesn't haved a debt problem and a financial education problem. It does. That doesn't make it slavery.

Re:For the love of all that's good and holy

[JustAnotherReader]

Not that I agree with LA county on this one, but I think you are assuming that human slavery has been eradicated. It has not. [scientificamerican.com] Not even in the U.S.

Your article shows that slavery exist in the world. Where is your proof that it exist in the US?

No Master/Slave?

[Ridgelift]

To verify that this wasn't a hoax or an internal joke which mistakenly escaped to the wider world of the Internet, we called the Purchasing and Contract Services division for the County of Los Angeles, and they informed us that yes, they did issue this message, and yes, it was meant seriously. The representative we spoke with said that someone within the County bureaucracy -- a person who probably didn't understand computer terminology -- had taken offense at 'master/slave' references and complained to the board, whereupon the Internal Services Department was obligated to issue notification requesting that vendors refrain from using that terminology.

Okay, how about "Pimp/Bitch"? The guy who recommended this needs to be fired before his ideas continue to procreate.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[GenSolo]

Seriously... what the hell are we supposed to call them? Master/Slave is the most accurate way to describe the damn things! Maybe to be PC they'll just call them the dominant and submissive drives instead?

Re:No Master/Slave?

[intermodal]

I've been calling them pimp and bitch for years, you copyright-infringer!

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Anonymous Coward]

How about "ID 0" and "ID 1" as if they were SCSI?

Re:No Master/Slave?

[DAldredge]

I find your use of italics offensive. Please change.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[imtheguru]

Ignore the primary/secondary and master/slave.
Use the unix naming convention.

hda -> primary master
hdb -> primary slave
hdc -> secondary master
hdd -> secondary slave

does that work?

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Cordath]

Pimp/Bitch is actually a bit of an improvement, since it implies that the controlling device is actually providing an interface to the services of the controlled device. (This is not implied by Master/Slave unfortunately)

I'm not in L.A. (thank the powers that be), but I strongly recommend we move to this new terminology nationally for the sake of clarity and political correctness.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Anonymous Coward]

So a Primary Master drive is now called a "Primary Primary", and a Secondary Master a "Secondary Primary"?

Sounds too confusing to me.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[FryGuy1013]

Except that the primary/secondary notation is already used for the cable arrangment. Currently it's the:

Primary Master
Primary Slave
Seconndary Master
Secondary Slave
Tertiary Master ...

So we should be calling them the Primary Primary drive?

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Anonymous Coward]

In a true BSDM relationship the Master does control access to the slaves inputs...

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Jeff DeMaagd]

In the terminology of IDE/ATA chains, chain #1 is primary and #2 is secondary. I think primary master makes more sense and looks less idiotic tham primary primary.

I like to think that pieces of hardware won't get offended if I call it a "slave". Unless you think that harddrives now have AI? It would certainly be different if I started referring to humans in that way.

I think people that get offended over how frigging hardware is referred to need a smoking break, preferably pot.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Apreche]

If you are offended, it's your fault, fuck you. For example, nothing you can say can possibly offend me. If you are offended by something, then there is something wrong with you, and that is the problem. Stick and stones. It's just freakin' words man. If you can' understand that when I call drives master and slave that I am in no way referring to actual slavery then you are fucked up and need some help.

Nowhere does it say you have the right not to be offended. But it does say I have the right to free speech. Free speech comes before everything else. So there's no way in hell I'm limiting my speech because you get offended. You and everyone like you who gets offended or tries to avoid offending people are part of the problem of society. Just get over it and deal, stop being a pussy.

And yes, if you noticed my language in this post is purposeful, if you were too slow to catch on you dumbass.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Nucleon500]

Yeah, primary/secondary is valid too, and that's what I usually say (until now). But anyone who's offended by master/slave deserves to be offended, because they're stupid. It's OK to be ignorant of computer terminology, but if you are, don't be writing laws to govern it.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Schezar]

I've been doing this for years, myself.

No you haven't. Master/Slave is the industry standard, and it wasn't even an issue until JUST NOW! JUST NOW! JUST NOW!

Furthermore, you can't be offended unless you WANT to be. Language is symbolic: all meaning is decoded by the receiver. There is no intrinsic meaning to any word, only the extrinsic ones we apply ourselves. Thus, if you are offended, it's YOUR fault: not mine.

I reference the following article (Happiness is a Warm Brick: page 7)

Re:No Master/Slave?

[rta]

well... Primary/Secondary isn't a very good choice because that's what's used to differentiate the two IDE controllers on one motherboard nowadays.

Of course, that's not the real problem. The problem is that these kinds of imagined slights and "issues" pollute the landscape and prevent more important issues from being dealt with. As others have mentioned, racial discrimination by the police... that's a real problem that should be addressed. This master/slave thing is just noise.

It's all about "the boy who cried wolf...".

Re:No Master/Slave?

[geekoid]

which channel are you talking about?
is that the secondary on the primary channel?

Re:No Master/Slave?

[RatBastard]

You get over it. There is nothing you can label something that will not eventually offend somebody. Period. There are so many thin-skinned people out there that would rather get offended and raise a ruckus rather than spend ten seconds educating themselves as to the real meaning of something that it is rediculous.

Here's a test for you. Try using the word "niggardly" in a sentence and see how many thin-skinned feebs decide to tar and feather you for being a racist.

People need to get over their accute desire to be offended at every stupid little thing and just get on with life. And governements, of all sizes, need to stop wasting time and taxpayer money on useless, pointless bullshit and work on real problems.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[crush]

Pimp/Bitch is good, but perhaps a little too offensive. I like "Top/Bottom" myself.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Xerithane]

I think "RIAA" and "Consumer" would work, also. And my mom wouldn't object to that term, but she likely wouldn't understand the reference.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[pyite]

Except, that's Linux convention, not UNIX convention. On SunOS, you might have /dev/dsk/c0t0d0s0. On BSD you might have /dev/wd0a. Disk device notation is not standard, it varies quite frequently.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[brianosaurus]

Top/Bottom could be confusing depending on the physical installation.

What if, instead, they just call them "The one plugged into the connector-thingy at the very end of the cable" and "The one plugged into the connector-thingy in the middle of the cable". Then have the punk-bitch who complained be assigned the task of re-labelling all the existing drives by hand.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Anonymous Coward]

Primary/Secondary is a perfectly valid way

No it is not. You probably don't know a damn thing about computers. In a standard IDE controller there are two channels (Primary and Secondary) each with a maximum of two devices (Master and Slave). For a total of *four* devices.

More to the point - Master/Slave is exactly accurate from a technical standpoint:

The "Master" device regulates the bus traffic on the channel it is connected to. The "Slave" device is then unable to access the channel at speeds greater than that of the "Master" - because access is controlled by the master device. One device really is doing the thinking for another and the slave must do what it's told for the system to work. This is why it's a bad idea to put a CD-ROM drive as a Master to a hard drive - because it slows the hard drive down.

The general technical phrase "Bus Mastering" is a generic term to describe controllers of this type that regulate traffic on shared channels.

No vendors should take the request seriously and the person who issued the memo should be repremanded.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Anonymous Coward]

... Right. I suppose we should all smile and nod when our co-workers or bosses catch on and start calling us stupid shits, crackers, niggers, ho's etc. The fact that this instance crosses from progress to idiocy doesn't mean insisting on professional workplaces is a bad thing.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[ameoba]

Just set eveything to cable select or force them to buy SCSI.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Anonymous Coward]

Reminds me of a time, way back when "Politically Correct" was a new concept, when the new Secretary of Energy was visiting one of the nation's DOE operated facilities. As the Secretary was viewing a "special materials" handling facility, the guide for the tour used the master/slave terminology when referring to the array of manipulators used for working with the materials. Naturally, the new Secretary found the terminology offensive, and ordered that different terms were to be employed when referring to the, uh, primary and secondary manipulators. Remarked one of the facility personnel after the visit, "It's a good thing we didn't show her the prick in the pulpit."

Re:No Master/Slave?

[imtheguru]

apologies, i meant Linux.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Anonymous Coward]

Roger, Roger.

Gimme a vector, Victor.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Lodragandraoidh]

I think the problem was with what they were originally smoking. They need to stop smoking whatever they currenting have their lips wrapped around - now!

"Drop the bong and back away from the LA County government building, posthaste!"

Re:No Master/Slave?

[GMFTatsujin]

I *so* object.

What you mean to say is, "The person who recommended this needs to have his or her employment opportunites redirected before his or her ideas continue to be validated in an open, constructive environment."

Re:No Master/Slave?

[RLiegh]

Not only do they "prevent more important issues from being dealt with.", but as a result of the back-lash that they generate, they actually undo a lot of the progress on these issues that has already been made. Look at all of the damage done since the rise of the 'angry white male' movement, most of it simply because people want to say the n word which has two g's. :~(

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Anonymous Coward]

now THAT's racist.
And sexist.

The problem is typological thinking. The minute you start thinking about people as black and white and yellow and red and tan is the minute you become racist. You MUST recognize that these types are merely convenient fictions.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Anonymous Coward]

OK, let's change it to

German/Jew

Re:No Master/Slave?

[sacrilicious]

What is so hard about referring to things in a new way?

To turn the question around: what is so easy about referring to things in a new way?

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you tell them that all their vehicles
have master and slave cylinders?

Re:No Master/Slave?

[mlk]

And on BeOS you have /device/disk/ide/0/master/raw /device/disk/ide/0/master/0 /device/disk/ide/0/master/... /device/disk/ide/0/slave/raw /device/disk/ide/0/slave/0

I wish more OSes did it like this.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think people that get offended over how frigging hardware is referred to need a smoking break, preferably pot. errmmmm..... as in a step down from the crack they were on?

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Anonymous Coward]

It is racist, sexist, and CORRECT!

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Scrameustache]

You just made my friends list mutherfucker!

I mean, if you want to rename your own drives because you don't like mast/slave, go ahead. But for crying out loud, an official complaint? About a standard technical term? That is not right.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

If you are offended, it's your fault, fuck you. For example, nothing you can say can possibly offend me.

Oh yeah? You obviously haven't met the Knights of Ni

NI!
NI!

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Anonymous Coward]

" If you are offended, it's your fault, fuck you. For example, nothing you can say can possibly offend me. If you are offended by something, then there is something wrong with you, and that is the problem. Stick and stones. It's just freakin' words man. If you can' understand that when I call drives master and slave that I am in no way referring to actual slavery then you are fucked up and need some help.

Nowhere does it say you have the right not to be offended. But it does say I have the right to free speech. Free speech comes before everything else. So there's no way in hell I'm limiting my speech because you get offended. You and everyone like you who gets offended or tries to avoid offending people are part of the problem of society. Just get over it and deal, stop being a pussy."

You took the god damn motherfucking words right out of my mouth.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[FortissimoWily]

"I like to think that pieces of hardware won't get offended if I call it a "slave". Unless you think that harddrives now have AI?"
They won't get offended yet, but you should be very careful what you call our Artificially Intelligent Hard Drive Overlords in a few years' time. ;)

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Zeinfeld]

Seriously... what the hell are we supposed to call them? Master/Slave is the most accurate way to describe the damn things! Maybe to be PC they'll just call them the dominant and submissive drives instead?

Actually not, the Master does not tell the slave what to do.

However the S&M community has faced this same problem long ago and come up with the terms 'top' and 'bottom'.

Levity aside, there is a serious issue here. There is a lot of Political Correctness talk that is trivial, some that is serious and some that is downright evil.

The trivial stuff is mostly harmless. Sometimes what appears trivial on the surface is actually a major cause of resentment. The word 'redskin' was used in pretty much the same way that 'nigger' was. If you know that you can see how a football team called the Washington Redskins might be unpopular with native americans the way a team called the Atlanta Niggers would be unpopular with african americans.

I recently had someone make me rewrite a paper on spam control to call 'blacklists' 'blocklists'. I objected because changing the terminology obscures the connection between blacklist type activities and McCarthy type activities which is actually central to the debate as I see it.

The downright evil use of PC is when it is used as a partisan gottcha. The 'niggardly' episode is a case in point, the use of the phrase was not the reason the person got sacked, it was merely the excuse. The extreeme example of this was in the UK where the campaign agains Rushdie and the Satanic Verses began as a PC type protest, a small bunch saw the opportunity for self-promotion.

There is also the downright evil use of PC card in the reverse direction. Take the recent advert from the Republican National Committee that equates disagreement with the President on any grounds with 'support for terrorists'. Forgive me, but I would be astonished if any of the Democratic Nominees is running on a platform of support for Bin Laden. It is not clear exactly which policy consistutes 'support for terrorists', it could be beleiving in the constitution rather than John Ashcroft, it could be beleiving that the Iraq war was and is a mistake, for that matter it might even be believing that war profiteers like Halliburton should be investigtated. We don't know because the President's party isn't making it clear. What is clear however is that they seem to be bringing us a sort of fusion McCarthyism, part Lenin (originator of the line 'whoever is not for us is against us'), part political correctness, part opportunism, part desperation.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Daniel Dvorkin]

The infamous "niggardly" case is a bit different, IMO. Yes, it's a perfectly good word, and yes, it has nothing to do with race -- but it's also a rather archaic word (I don't think I've ever actually heard anyone use it in a sentence, except to discuss the case) and, obviously, has a lot of potential to be misunderstood. As I said at the time, using "niggardly" in a room full of black people is kind of like being in a room full of homosexuals and saying, "It's cold in here -- throw another fagot in the fire."

All that being said, the person who complained about "master/slave" on racial grounds is not only an idiot, but also a racist. Slavery is not and never has been confined to any one group of people based on the color of their skin. There have always been, and unfortunately still are, slaves of every race.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Hes Nikke]

I take offense to your not taking offense to my offensive speech! ;)

Re:No Master/Slave?

[commodoresloat]

Here's a test for you. Try using the word "niggardly" in a sentence and see how many thin-skinned feebs decide to tar and feather you for being a racist. People need to get over their accute desire to be offended at every stupid little thing and just get on with life. And governements, of all sizes, need to stop wasting time and taxpayer money on useless, pointless bullshit and work on real problems.

I agree -- we need to quit all this niggling; it makes us look like a bunch of nigglers!

Re:No Master/Slave?

[ifwm]

Noggin? You're right, I'll kill anyone who tries to stop me from saying noggin!

Noggin Noggin Noggin!

Re:No Master/Slave?

[ifwm]

No no no! It's FAGGOT, otherwise someone might misunderstand and throw a bunch of logs on the fire.

(If I'm gay, does that make this post OK?)

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Anonymous Coward]

Try "Chairman" on for size. The suffix 'man' in that particular instance comes from the same language root as the word "manipulate", and means 'to hold', as in 'to hold the position'.

It's when real issues get tied up in linguistic silliness that you know the battle is lost.

cheers
Sara

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Anonymous Coward]

Posting anonymously only because I just modded your post up.

Beautiful. fucking beautiful. I could not have stated it better. I never thought I'd do this to a comment on slashdot, but I will be printing this out to hang in my home office.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Daniel Dvorkin]

Um ... that was kind of my point.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[typobox43]

But that uses the forbidden "slave" and "master"! Shame.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Anonymous Coward]

While I think the PC-motivated campaign to remove harmless technical jargon is stupid, I also never have really been all that thrilled with the IDE drive naming convention. Fact is, the "slave" drive is not a slave and the "master" drive is not its master. Yes, the "master" drive gets a higher priority on the bus, but the "slave" drive doesn't respond to commands from the "master", and the "master" doesn't send them to the slave. Instead, the controller sends commands and both the "master" and "slave" respond to those commands. If you must apply that terminology, then the controller is the master and both drives are the slaves.

So, the terminology is wrong. It's jargony too. IMHO, "primary master; primary slave; secondary master; secondary slave" should be replaced with the much more sensible and accurate "bus 0, drive 0; bus 0, drive 1, bus 1, drive 0; bus 1, drive 1". This would even help people understand how the actual arrangement works, at least people who know what a bus is. (And if you don't know what a bus is, then it's probably a good idea to learn.)

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Anonymous Coward]

So a Primary Master drive is now called a "Primary Primary", and a Secondary Master a "Secondary Primary"?

Sounds too confusing to me.

I think "doubleplus Primary" and "doubleplusungood Primary" would be less confusing.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[ifwm]

No, it wasn't. You missed my point, read it again S L O W L Y

Re:No Master/Slave?

[The Munger]

I'm having an evening of mastication and social intercourse. Anyone want to come around?

Re:No Master/Slave?

[theonetruekeebler]

Or maybe to "troll/target"?

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry to tell you this Captain Moron...

The master drive may not send "commands" to the slave drive, but the slave drive runs off of the master drives clocking standard. This is why you always put the fastest drive as the master. If you put the slower drive as the master, you slow the faster drive to the slower drives speed.

Besides, if you are "offended" by hard disks being referred to as master/slave, you have way too little to worry about in your life... like taking care of your family, yourself, and your community. Get a life and quit dragging those of us with a clue down the crapper (yes, another offensive word) with you.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[theonetruekeebler]

Now you're just niggle-baiting.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Anonymous Coward]

That was horrible and I'm not even gay

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Daniel Dvorkin]

Aaargh. I think we're talking past each other.

The unfortunate who used the word "niggardly" was not, I think, trying to be racist; he simply chose to use an archaic word for "stingy". (I have no idea why; maybe he reads a lot of old novels?) Similarly, someone might just as innocently used the word "fagot" without trying to be homophobic. In either case, it's a legitimate use of the language, but still a bad idea. Is all I'm saying.

I'm not hypothesizing that someone in the latter case would actually be proposing to burn gay people to heat the room.

Or are you making a joke I'm not getting?

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Tokerat]

Perhaps they could be President/Sheep drives?

Actually, I probably shouldn't be saying this on the Interne
NO CARRIER

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Anonymous Coward]

>Furthermore, you can't be offended unless you WANT to be. Language is symbolic: all meaning is decoded by the receiver. There is no intrinsic meaning to any word, only the extrinsic ones we apply ourselves

Why are you posting goat cheese recipes here on slashdot? (That's what your words mean TO ME.) Think about what you just said and you'll see that it's self-contradictory.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[ifwm]

Yes, I was trying to make a badly timed, horribly non PC joke. As in "Don't say throw a FAGOT in the fire, but instead say throw a FAGGOT in the fire" so that a homosexual is thrown into the fire instead of logs.

And now you've ruined it!!!!!

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's when real issues get tied up in linguistic silliness that you know the battle is lost.

I was confronted by one of these before - a militant feminist telling me that the language was sexist.

So I asked her what word we should use - and she replied "chairPERSON"..

So I said "But that's just as sexist as "chairman" - break down the word 'person', and you get 'each SON' - clearly a reference to male offspring.. and if she really wanted to be gender-neutral, she would be using the word 'chairperoffspring' - anything else, and she was being a hypocrit.

If you're gonna butcher the language, you might as well go all the way.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Daniel Dvorkin]

Oops. Sorry.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[IM6100]

The connectors on the IDE cable are completely neutral. I don't know which drive, master or slave, is plugged into which connector (center or end) on the various IDE cables on my various systems. I don't have to know.

Are there people so pedantic that they worry about this?

Historical note- it mattered on floppy drives for IBM compatibles, where both drives were jumpered as 'drive two' and the cable had a section in it twisted to turn the connector on the end into 'drive one.' (now *that* was a screwy twist to things)

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Jaysyn]

I much rather someone just stop him or her from procreating.

Jaysyn

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm thinking a smoking "break" caused by an exit wound from a large caliber rifle.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[furasato]

F U too buddy!! But, I agree with you 100% on what you just said. I too am sick and tired of all these MoFo's that get offended at the slightest thing. People just don't know how to walk away from something that they don't like. They cant turn off the channel (or turn the dial) if they hear something offensive on the radio or TV. People think they have to change things that they dont want to hear, aka, suppress the first amendment. Those who get offended and decide to do something about it by suppressing free speech are no different than communist dictators, who suppress speech about them.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[utd-blaze]

No stoner would hassle you about what you call your hard drive settings. The types of people who get upset at hard drive setting names are the type of people who get upset about harmless drugs like pot. Since when can smoking pot make someone a fascist?

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Anonymous Coward]

How about just ignoring the problem? Let's see how long LA County can get by without buying any IDE hard drives.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[RealProgrammer]

Furthermore, you can't be offended unless you WANT to be. Language is symbolic: all meaning is decoded by the receiver. There is no intrinsic meaning to any word, only the extrinsic ones we apply ourselves. Thus, if you are offended, it's YOUR fault: not mine.

I understand that point. People try to make it. I disagree with it.

Language is symbolic. We use it to convey meaning. While there is no intrinsic meaning to a given set of letters or sounds, by speaking the same language we've agreed a priori on the meaning associated with the words in that language.

We choose words to pass ideas along to others. We even try to use words to convince people that we have no power to convince them of anything, that it is they who are convincing themselves. We use words to alter the emotional state of others. Mothers, cheerleaders, bosses, and lovers all use words to alter the emotions of other people.

We use words that we know will have the desired effect. That's the point of having a language. To claim otherwise is willful disregard of reality.

But changing words because they offend someone when used in an otherwise innocent context is at the other extreme, a deliberate attempt to make abstractions real.

I'd say whoever complained ought to be whipped and sold at the market.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[uptownguy]

At the risk of making even more enemies than my original primary/secondary post made me (*grin* Love all those orange bullets by your names, kids, keep 'em coming...) I have an answer for this one, too...

So I asked her what word we should use - and she replied "chairPERSON"..

That's just silly. I fail to see why the word "chair" wouldn't be perfectly appropriate and gender neutral. "Toni was the chair of the commission."

The point here is that if the mores shift and parts of the language start to offend, there really are perfectly acceptable alternatives...provided you aren't so stubborn about being "right" and you actually want to communicate. I shouldn't say this on Slashdot, I know, I should let everyone's thinly veiled racism/hatred of women/need to be "different" shine, but still...

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Anonymous Coward]

Furthermore, you can't be offended unless you WANT to be. Language is symbolic: all meaning is decoded by the receiver. There is no intrinsic meaning to any word, only the extrinsic ones we apply ourselves. Thus, if you are offended, it's YOUR fault: not mine.

I agree, within general reason that's correct... I was kind of offended by this guy I was hanging out with and he started talking about black cats but kept referring to them as "nigger cats".

Re:No Master/Slave?

[pdxluddite]

sigh...programmers. The problem here isn't a binary issue, it's an emotional one, and the vast majority of y'all aren't getting it. let's step beyond the literal meaning of the words for a moment; we should all be able to admit that American society has unresolved racial issues. Using "master" and "slave" terminology is insensitive at best and racist at worst. And if we want to talk literal meaning: "master" and "slave" implies a controller/controlled relationship. correct my understanding of the IDE bus if I'm wrong, but the "master" drive does NOT control activity on the IDE channel. the IDE controller does. So shouldn't the nomenclature reflect that?

Re:No Master/Slave?

[maelstrom]

Linux DevFS is very similar to this.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Anonymous Coward]

Using "master" and "slave" terminology is insensitive at best and racist at worst

BullShit! There is not a single race of people on this planet that has never been enslaved by another. This is not a Black/White/Hispanic/Indian issue. This is a word that does not and never has had any reference to race EVER! Anyone that says differently has an agenda. I cannot stand the slavery issue bs. There is not a single race or group of people living in the US who are or have ever been slaves nor is there any race or group of people living in the US that has ever owned slaves. I certainly can't speak for Europe but Slavery ended long before your lifetimes, get over it.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[lnjasdpppun]

If you use "Cable Select" mode on your drives it does matter. In that case the drive at the end of the cable is the master (err Pimp) and the one in the middle is the slave. Of course I just jumper the drives manually to master or slave becuase thats what I have been doing for years.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Reziac]

I know someone whose surname is "Niggle" (which as best she could discover, has the same roots as "niggardly"). What the heck is she supposed to do about *that*??

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Daniel Dvorkin]

Get married? ;)

Re:No Master/Slave?

[anthony_dipierro]

So we should be calling them the Primary Primary drive?

What's wrong with hda?

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd say whoever complained ought to be whipped and sold at the market.

That's awfully white of you.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Anonymous Coward]

'Thin-skinned'? Are you saying that some people have fat skin?

Re:No Master/Slave?

[dspeyer]

"No niggard are you, Eomer, thus giving to Gondor that which is fairest in all your realm!"
--Aragorn, RotK, Tolkien

American Nuclear Control Center Guard: What's this about giving you all the faggots in the city?
British Witchfinder Private: Yes, so we can burn them
AHCCG: And they told me you British boys were soft!
Good Omens, Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett

Just thought this thread could do with a little literature. Not that Tolkien necessarily counts as a non-archaic source :-).

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Anonymous Coward]

He he he, I know, instead of saying, "throw another fagot on the fire", say, "throw another homosexual on the fire", now that would get a laugh, wouldn't it! Get it? Fagot? Homosexual? he he he

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Anonymous Coward]

See this post.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[John Courtland]

Are you serious? A word should not offend, it's the context and the spirit of the statement. I call everything a nigger, and I mean EVERYTHING. Hell, I even use it as a unit of measurement (one 80lb. brick = 1 Nigger, try building a 500N brick wall sometime). Doesn't mean I prejudge black people. It's just a word, and it gets a point across effectively.

Anyhow, if a boss called me a nigger in passing, and he was comfortable enough with me to call me that, that would be pretty cool. Unless it was mean spirited, but then that's a different ballgame all together.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Anonymous Coward]

Or saying "I think I'll smoke a fag".

Re:No Master/Slave?

[bluprint]

The master slave does determine the clock speed of the controller....so it does indirectly "control" the workings of the slave. Granted, it may not be a control in the same sense that we would normally use the terms, but it's a fair proximity and alternate usage of the terms.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Anonymous Coward]

Do the same as the one I know, whose surname is "Homo": Unplug the phone on weekends.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Anonymous Coward]

First off, I'm not offended. I didn't say I was offended. I said that the PC-motivated campaign to change the terminology was stupid. That would be the opposite of being offended.

Second of all, can you offer some evidence that the ATA bus really works the way you say it does? From the research I did, it seems like there are some older ATA controllers that did not have the capability to run the two different devices on a single bus at different speeds. But modern controllers should have that ability. So I can see something like what you're talking about, but instead it would seem that you'd need to (in those cases) put the slower device on a different controller. The proper thing to do would be to put your newer drive on the primary ATA bus and that older drive on the secondary ATA bus. It wouldn't matter whether they were master or slave, just what bus they're on. To clarify, as far as I can tell, with older controllers the ATA clock must run at the slower of the two speeds regardless of which device is primary and secondary, and with newer controllers, they can switch the clock to whatever speed is appropriate for the device currently in use (like SCSI does).

However, if what you're saying actually is true, it'd be nice to know, because that would be an important difference between ATA and SCSI.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Kenard]

I purpose:
Primary Master -> /dev/hda
Primary Slave -> /dev/hdb
Secondary Master -> /dev/hdc
Secondary Slave -> /dev/hdd

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's troll/biter

Re:No Master/Slave?

[julesh]

The word 'niggardly' is in relatively common usage in the UK. I certainly didn't have to look it up to know what it meant when I first saw it in this context, so I must have been exposed to the use of the word in the past. I'm not entirely certain, but I think that's probably on many occasions. Words I've only seen used once I tend to forget again after looking them up.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[GenSolo]

Actually not, the Master does not tell the slave what to do.

Actually, yes it does. The slave drive follows the master's clock, so while it may not exactly tell it what to do, it tells it when to do it. If you don't believe me, ask any systems engineer why you always make the faster drive master and the slower drive slave.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Silburn_Luke]

Faggot is spelled with two g's whether you are using it as slang for a homosexual or to mean a bunch of firewood, so your joke doesn't really work.

In British english both faggot and niggardly are slightly old-fashioned, but they definitely aren't archaic. Anyone with a reasonably broad vocabulary would know what was meant and wouldn't take it as being homophobic or racist (they'd almost certainly know the US slang meaning for faggot as well, but would discount it unless the speaker was American or the context meant that there was a clear intention to use it to mean a gay man).

Regards
Luke

Re:No Master/Slave?

[armando_wall]

"I like to think that pieces of hardware won't get offended if I call it a "slave". Unless you think that harddrives now have AI?"

If we are not dumb enough to emulate the way we think when we design AI devices, I don't think such devices will give a damn if we call them names ;-) .

Re:No Master/Slave?

[wagemonkey]

Faggot is also some sort of meat prodict - like a big meatball. "Eat Brain's Faggots" springs to mind.
There may be some offal component, I can't remember as I don't eat the things...

I'll leave the cooking/eating jokes to those who are so inclined.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[mordejai]

The problem with this is telling which one is "Primary Secondary" or "Secondary Primary"...

Re:No Master/Slave?

[ddimas]

I really shouldn't do this but...

All at once a large body of narcs burst into the hall from the passage the company had followed and charged them, waving hammers and sickles.

"Yalu, Yalu," shouted their leader, brandishing a huge faggot.

"You dieth, G.I.," cried the faggot.

From "Bored of the Rings" by the Harvard Lampoon

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Anonymous Coward]

In a true BDSM relationship, the D comes before the S. There's a reason those letters are ordered that way.

Bondage/Discipline, Dominance/Submission, Sadism/Masochism..

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Zonekeeper]

The trivial stuff is mostly harmless. Sometimes what appears trivial on the surface is actually a major cause of resentment. The word 'redskin' was used in pretty much the same way that 'nigger' was. If you know that you can see how a football team called the Washington Redskins might be unpopular with native americans the way a team called the Atlanta Niggers would be unpopular with african americans.

Unpopular if a white person says it. They can call themselves that all day long, and do, and its just wonderful. Oh, and they can call a white a cracker all day long too, and thats fine. However, it seems the door only swings one way on that. You'd better not be white and engage in the same type of linguistics.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Sinistar2k]

Is it fair to say that master/slave originated far in advance of its technological connotation?

Is it also fair to say that people would be offended had the arrangement of hard drives been labeled Nazi/Jew?

No, they aren't quite the same, but I can understand where some might take offense. In my years of working with computing devices, I never actually equated master/slave with actual, historical slavery. But I can empathize with those who do.

It warms my heart, however, to see the usual gaggle of responses that decry political correctness without spending a second on perspective.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[totallygeek]

As I said at the time, using "niggardly" in a room full of black people is kind of like being in a room full of homosexuals and saying, "It's cold in here -- throw another fagot in the fire."

You also have international issues. "Excuse me, I am to step out and light a fag." Nothing archaic there, simply a differentiation of the word; here meaning to smoke a cigarette.

I live close to Mexico (in south Texas), and it is becoming difficult here to say the word Mexican. Hispanics here, even those born in Mexico, seem to take offense to the word. Many restaurants are changing their signs and menus from Mexican food to other titles, such as Jalisco-style or Tejano food. It is just getting rediculous to the point where you cannot say anything without someone getting upset.

As far as niggardly goes, there are many words that are archaic and not uttered often. Many of those have alternate or negative meanings, or sound close to words that do. Would it be unfair to you if every word you spoke was "hate speech"? It sure would seem that way to me.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Oddly_Drac]

"However the S&M community has faced this same problem long ago and come up with the terms 'top' and 'bottom'."

Nope, they're the roles for straight SM play where there is simply a dominant and submissive role. Master and Slave are still used in deep SM 'arrangements' where implicit consensuality is given, sometimes under marriage, contract or promise. Top and Bottom are sometimes used by the gay community to indicate the 'giver and receiver', further confusing things.

There are occasions when a slave/submissive can 'top from the bottom', which indicates that they're actually in control; although this is usually considered a 'bad thing'.

And yes, I am a practising Master, and consent is my overriding concern at all times.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Anonymous Coward]

How about this, while camping: Quit being niggardly and throw another faggot on the fire.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Reziac]

LOL! Well, that didn't work either, cuz then she hypenated her name!

And then there are the poor folk surnamed "Master", and down the hill from me, "The Masters College" ... oh dear! :)

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Insightfill]

While niggardly is archaic, it (and many other words) may have drifted out of favor in part because of the connotations, or - more likely - confusion with "n-word". Regardless, it's still creeps up in school readings of Charles Dickens.

Also: Mark Twain's stories often come up in book bannings because of the more obvious use of what we now consider epithets.

I especially like your point about the identification of the objector as the "true racist" in the story. The more generally definition of racist (applies to sexist, classist, etc. too) isn't one who discriminates based upon race, but one who distinguishes based on race. Truly: "discriminate" doesn't necessarily mean to "treat badly", but to "treat different" and I think you caught the essence.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[13thirteen]

Actually, the types of people who would harass someone about hard drive settings are exactly the opposite type of people who would get upset about marijuana use. The former are your overly politically correct, whiny, sniveling 'everything offends me' type of people, the latter are your right-wing, wanna-control-everything, 'it must be bad because it's against the law' type of people. Now that I've managed to offend both sides of the political fence, I'll crawl back into my hole.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[dheltzel]

We don't know because the President's party isn't making it clear. What is clear however is that they seem to be bringing us a sort of fusion McCarthyism, part Lenin (originator of the line 'whoever is not for us is against us'), part political correctness, part opportunism, part desperation.

Call it anything you want, but politically, it's called "sheer genius". It's like the abortion rights movement calling themselves "pro choice" instead of "pro abortion" or "anti-life", and the "pro live" faction being constantly referred to as "anti abortion" or "anti choice". Who, politically, would want to be called "anti military" or "pro terrorist" right now (well Dennis K, but he's a certifiable nutjob anyhow), so the Republican strategists have devised a way to keep all the democrats hovering above the fence on this. Hovering like this is a huge waste of fuel (money and media attention, in this case). The Democratic strategists want desperately to make the next election about the economy (specifically job loss) and get attention off the "War on terror" in the hopes of re-enacting the Clinton victory, but the Republicans are (not surprisingly) trying to stop them.

You may not like our President, but you have to admire his party strategists at least a little. So far, they have kept the Democratic candidates running around bludgening each other with their verbal attacks. Using up all their money and political good will, while the President sits back and "looks Presidential".

Re:No Master/Slave?

[WWWWolf]

My first hard drive just won't run fast. If I turn on DMA in Windows, it chugs along very slowly. Without DMA it runs a bit faster but still not necessarily acceptably. No idea how it works in Linux, since it's just a big FAT32 drive where I don't keep any work files.

But now I see what's the point: The first hard drive is master and the second drive is slave. The slave runs with DMA and faster because it is underpaid and subjected to inhumane data transfer rates and working conditions (like having a sizable FAT32 partition, a swap partition and an ext2 root partition on it on the age when journaling FSes are the norm - reiserfs only takes slightly more than half of the disk). The master is just plain lazy and thus won't work fast no matter what I do!

This certainly explains a lot of things. It probably has nothing to do with having a VIA (Via Dolorosa, as many people seem to call the company) motherboard afterall.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Dusabre]

"There is no intrinsic meaning to any word, only the extrinsic ones we apply ourselves."

No intrinsic meaning to any word? None? Ah. So language is the act of one person thinking up content to the words uttered or written by another person. So communication is one act of randomness interacting loosely with another act of randomness.

So perhaps I'm calling you an idiot instead of attacking your grasp of communications, logic and linguistics. BTW its your fault if calling you an idiot offends you.

Actually though, YOU may be offended if a call you an idiot BECAUSE I THINK YOU'RE AN IDIOT AND YOU KNOW I THINK YOU"RE AN IDIOT. Not just because you find yourself being called idiot offensive to your self esteem.

But I don't. Just an example.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Daniel Dvorkin]

Okay, perhaps I should have said "American blacks" and "American homosexuals" to be a little more clear. But I think you see what I was getting at.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[HungWeiLo]

It's not so much being "thin-skinned," but rather for Americans having a dismally small vocabulary.

One time, on Candid Camera (I think?), they went to a Arkansas Wal-Mart parking lot, and started a petition to "end women's suffrage." They were able to gather close to a thousand signatures by the end of the day ("Sure, I want to end the suffering of women.")

Re:No Master/Slave?

[sirket]

There are so many thin-skinned people out there that would rather get offended and raise a ruckus rather than spend ten seconds educating themselves as to the real meaning of something that it is rediculous.

It is ridiculous NOT rediculous!!!

I am personally offended by you butchery of the English langage! :)

-sirket

Re:No Master/Slave?

[sirket]

Pimp/Bitch is actually a bit of an improvement, since it implies that the controlling device is actually providing an interface to the services of the controlled device. (This is not implied by Master/Slave unfortunately)

In IDE, the master drive does not provide an interface to the controller, it simply controls the clock.

-sirket

Re:No Master/Slave?

[SpacePunk]

I live in sw New Mexico. There are quite a few 'hispanics' (Americans of spanish descent) that dislike Mexicans, call em Mexicans, and do make a differentation between Mexicans as a nationality, and the generalized 'hispanic'.

Closer to Mexico it's that way probably because the Mexican population there is attempting to make the nationality problem a deep and murky area for the benefit of the illegal aliens.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[random_static]

So we should be calling them the Primary Primary drive?

then we'd have to abbreviate it "pee-pee drive"...

Re:No Master/Slave?

[monkeydo]

If you are using the interfaces on the pimp you're doing it wrong.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[utd-blaze]

Its not just the far right or left that wants to control everything. It is about more than ideology. Its about control. It's the mindset that the solution to man's problems is more laws. This mindset is present on both ends of the ideological spectrum. The war on drugs wouldn't be possible without the complicity of the "I need government to tell me what to do" left. Of course it wouldn't be such a massive human rights abuse without the "negros are corrupting our children" right. So you see both sides (that have money and power) can work together to opress the masses.
When was the last time you met a politically correct, whiney, sniveling, 'everything offends me' stoner? My point is that stoners for the most part have a live and let live attitude about the world. They have been the target of constant harassment, intimidation, opression, and imprisonment since they discovered that illegal != wrong. Stoners don't like telling other people how to live their lives or what to call their hard drive settings because they know what it is like to be told how to live theirs.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[toriver]

However the S&M community has faced this same problem long ago

I thought the S&M community was a different on from the one that master/slave seems most to apply to, namely Dominance & Submission?

Re:No Master/Slave?

[wieck]

Instead, the controller sends commands and both the "master" and "slave" respond to those commands. If you must apply that terminology, then the controller is the master and both drives are the slaves.

So you mean I have a black and a white slave working together for the same "controller"? So the real offending word now should be "controller" ... they must be removed immediately from LAX!

Re:No Master/Slave?

[theLOUDroom]

Actually not, the Master does not tell the slave what to do.

Actually, when correctly used the "master" does tell the "slave" what to do. A good example would be a hydraulic system, like the clutch in many cars. The master cylider is operated by your foot, and contains a return spring, controlling the slave cylinder. The slave does exactly what the master tells it.

Sometimes these terms aren't applied exactly correctly, but the general meaning is as above.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[ryanwright]

unpopular with african americans.

They aren't "african americans". Most blacks in this country have never even been to Africa. You want to end racism? Promote equality? Then call black Americans exactly what they are: Americans. Or "Black Americans" if you have to differentiate between skin color.

When did the word "Black" get so damned offensive, anyway? Do I get offensive when someone calls me "white"? No, because that's what I am. Why should it offend me?

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Zarf]

I'd call 'em:

Primary Pimp
Primary ho'
Secondary Pimp
Secondary ho'
Teriary Pimp ...
So we should be calling them the Primary Pimp drive.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[identity0]

I don't know, I was trying to rename my C:\ drive label to 'Toby', but it kept rejecting it with the message "Error: My name... is Kunta Kinte! [OK] [Cancel]"

Re:No Master/Slave?

[mlk]

Thanks really cool.
Thanks.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Coneasfast]

People need to get over their accute desire to be offended at every stupid little thing and just get on with life. And governements, of all sizes, need to stop wasting time and taxpayer money on useless, pointless bullshit and work on real problems.

reminds me of the times of freedom fries

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Silburn_Luke]

Mmmmm Braiiins....

They are a west country/midlands dish originally I think. As you say a big (tennis ball or so) meatball, with seasoning and traditionally served with a slightly sweet oniony gravy.

I don't think there's supposed to be offal in 'em although obviously commercial products will generally make use of the unmentionable bits left on the carcass after the expensive cuts have been taken.

Regards
Luke

Re:No Master/Slave?

[Overzeetop]

...The trivial stuff is mostly harmless. Sometimes what appears trivial on the surface is actually a major cause of resentment. The word 'redskin' was used in pretty much the same way that 'nigger' was. If you know that you can see how a football team called the Washington Redskins might be unpopular with native americans the way a team called the Atlanta Niggers would be unpopular with african americans. ...

Actually, Atlanta would be a poor choice as there is netiher rhyme not alliteration in the moniker. However, I was quite relieved to see that, during the expansion, Tennesee managed to avoid making Washington the second-most (PC) offensive name in NFL football.

Re:No Master/Slave?

[ZWithaPGGB]

In England, Ireland, and other UK-linked cultures, a Fag is a cigarette. The etymology is twig or small stick.
On Topic: How does LA County expect people to bid/work on anything? Master/Slave isn't only used in Computing, but also in Hydraulics. As in the MASTER and SLAVE cylinder in a car Clutch or Brake system. Does LA County REALLY expect GM, FORD, etc. to rewrite all their shop manuals and part descriptions just for LA?
Who can be contacted to do something about this?

My response to the county

[daveschroeder]

From: Dave Schroeder <das@doit.wisc.edu>
Subject: Computer terminology
Date: November 24, 2003 12:27:14 PM CST
To: jsandoval@isd.co.la.ca.us
Cc: seconddistrict@bos.co.la.ca.us, thirddistrict@bos.co.la.ca.us, fourthdistrict@bos.co.la.ca.us, fifthdistrict@bos.co.la.ca.us, firstdistrict@bos.co.la.ca.us

Regarding the recent memo sent to a county vendor regarding "master/slave", it may interest you to know that this is, and has been for years, the accepted and only terminology that refers to the hierarchy of the most commonly used computer hard drive interface in the world, known as "IDE" or "ATA". It may also interest you to know one of the definitions of "master" and "slave" according to Merriam-Webster:

master - 3 a master mechanism or device
slave - 5 a device that is directly responsive to another

And from the definitive reference on the English language, Oxford University's Oxford English Dictionary:

http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/entry /00303043
master - e. A component of a system which controls or regulates the operation of one or more of the system's other components. Cf. SLAVE n. 5b. See also master-slave, sense C. 6.

http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/entry/00227171
slave - c. techn. Used to denote a subsidiary device, esp. one which is controlled by, or which follows accurately the movements of, another device.

master-slave a. (attrib.) (b) chiefly Electronics and Computing, designating or relating to a system in which one component controls the behaviour of one or more other components.

The names "master" and "slave" are codified in the official ANSI ATA-1 interface standard, X3.221-1994, titled "AT Attachment Interface for Disk Drives". You may be aware that ANSI, the American National Standards Institute, is the largest standards body in the United States. It would seem odd that a county purchasing agency would want to throw out well established standard names created over years of cooperation and deliberation by scientists, engineers, and standards experts. Further, almost every hard disk currently in the possession of the county has the words "MASTER" and "SLAVE" printed directly on them. Perhaps it would be an interesting exercise to destroy this labeling on each drive, spending thousands of manhours and voiding manufacturers' warranties in the process. Your next computing equipment bid will likely be an interesting one, since all hard drive manufacturers refer to their drives using the same terminology.

Insisting that vendors comply with the requirements in the memo makes the county look extremely, extremely foolish, and directly flies in the face of accepted, descriptive technical names for device interaction. You may also wish to caution your vendors about using the words "male" and "female" in the description of plumbing and electrical fixtures.

Regards,

Dave Schroeder
Los Angeles County native

cc: County Board

Ref:

ATA (ATA-1)
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/ide/std _ATA.htm

Single, Master and Slave Drives and Jumpering
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/ide/c onf_Jumpering.htm

INCITS Technical Committee 13 (T13), responsible for X3.221-1994
http://www.t13.org/

Re:My response to the county

[HBI]

I take my hat off to you sir, that is a well written reply.

I hope at least one politician in your region is not a total idiot.

Best of luck.

Re:My response to the county

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope at least one politician in your region is not a total idiot.

hehe im arnoild tolk to teh hand hehe

Re:My response to the county

[Frisky070802]

I second the kudos. Please keep us posted on any reply you get.

Re:My response to the county

[agrippa_cash]

I just finished my own letter, though it was less well written. Vopefully the varience will let them know that these are indepentantly submitted expressions of displeasure.

Re:My response to the county

[Anonymous Coward]

You, sir, are an idiot. "Master-Slave", while applicable to the US slavery situation, is also applicable to, oh, say 5,000 years of human history. I hate to break it to you, but it does not "directly derive" from anything on this continent. This is exactly the wrong kind of thinking that caused this mess. American history is not the only history, and Master-Slave is not about the American South. If you want to say that "Master-Slave" propogates a concept which is undesirable, okay, you're still goofy, but you at least have some validity. To say that the white man is trying to keep the blck man down by this term is ludicrous

Re:My response to the county

[Anonymous Coward]

*Stands and applauds*

Re:My response to the county

[Iceparr0t]

"whoever came up with this term (I betcha it was a white guy) probably thought it was cute." This is exactly the problem. There is no reason that just because somebody decided to call something master and slave, to define the relationship between the drives, means that that person was in anyway refering directly to American Slavery. Those terms have been around for thousands of years, well predating our own country. Those two things are WORDS that have several MEANINGS. They chose those words to decribe a situation which seemed to follow that relationship. Every useage of these words does not in anyway refer to the enslavement of millions of Africans. "Imagine if the "Trashcan" on your desktop were named "Auschwitz" by some clever computer scientist" That is quite a stretch to go to that from Master/Slave. Auschwitz can only really bring up one meaning, the slaugtering of the Jews (who by, were oppressed horribly for thousands of years, compared to the relatively short time in which Slavery existed in the US, and no I'm not Jewish, I just know a little about history). "and you are not at all bothered by the Cleveland Indians mascot". Although I am not bothered by those teams, I understand that somebody who is a Native American Indian could take offense. Again however, those teams mascots are direct references to a certain set of people, where the terms Master and Slave are about as general as White and Black. I

Re:My response to the county

[serial frame]

I agree with all of your points, however, this sort of tickled me in a weird way:

> I betcha it was a white guy
...
> "Yah, you just draag ze files to zis Auscvitz ikon, and zhey dissapear!"

I can sort of see the meaning you're trying to convey by your use of these...clever bits of "reverse racism". However, it seems to be a case of the pot calling the kettle matte.

Sorry, had to nitpick :-/ I'm not meaning to troll by saying this, but if you are indeed trolling yourself, heh, congrats.

Re:My response to the county

[Iceparr0t]

"whoever came up with this term (I betcha it was a white guy) probably thought it was cute."

This is exactly the problem that is happening in LA County. There is no reason that just because somebody decided to call something master and slave, to define the relationship between the drives, means that that person was in anyway refering directly to American Slavery. Those terms have been around for thousands of years, well predating our own country. Those two things are WORDS that have several MEANINGS. They chose those words to decribe a situation which seemed to follow that relationship. Every useage of these words does not in anyway refer to the enslavement of millions of Africans.

"Imagine if the "Trashcan" on your desktop were named "Auschwitz" by some clever computer scientist"

That is quite a stretch to go to that from Master/Slave. Auschwitz can only really bring up one meaning, the slaugtering of the Jews (who by, were oppressed horribly for thousands of years, compared to the relatively short time in which Slavery existed in the US, and no I'm not Jewish, I just know a little about history)

. "and you are not at all bothered by the Cleveland Indians mascot".

Although I am not bothered by those teams, I understand that somebody who is a Native American Indian could take offense. Again however, those teams mascots are direct references to a certain set of people, where the terms Master and Slave are about as general as White and Black.

Re:My response to the county

[Anonymous Coward]

the term "master-slave" still directly derives from the American slavery experience

Believe it or not, the term "master-slave" does NOT derive from the American slavery experience. In fact, slavery was invented thousands of years earlier in the middle east and northern Africa where human beings are from (remember Moses and the Egyptians? There are plenty of even older examples). By the way, for future reference, slavery existed far earlier in the entire African continent (between all the peoples living there) than it did in the United States. And, it still exists there in the full sense of the term.

While ANSI may have coined the term "master-slave" to refer to computer parts, the Middle East and Africa invented the concept (and practiced it repletely) before any other culture in the world. Where do you think other cultures learned it from (considering that humanity's roots are all in the same Mesopotamian region)?

Re:My response to the county

[Anonymous Coward]

Please don't like politicians to idiots, idiots have some standards.

Re:My response to the county

[Anonymous Coward]

There was NEVER 200 years of legal slavery in America. This country came into being in 1783. The constitution, which had wording which spelled the beginning of the end of slavery was written in 1788 and ratified in 1790. Slavery was abolished in this country in 1863 by Presidential proclamation. 1783 to 1863 is 80 years. For 80 years slavery was legal but clearly on the way out.

Now, if you want to consider the status of slavery under the English, French, or Spanish who owned various portions of this country before independence or before we bought or took it from them, feel free to do so, but take it up with them. Or with the native Americans who practiced slavery. Or perhaps with the sub-Saharan Africans who practice slavery at this very moment.

A few hundred thousand people who'd never been a slave, owned a slave, or perhaps even seen a slave died to turn the proclamation of the end of slavery into reality. On behalf of those hundreds of thousand and their descendents, I declare the use of the terms "master" and "slave" to describe cabling to be quite acceptable.

Re:My response to the county

[fildo]

Rock on!

Re:My response to the county

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah, yeah, just keep pointing your fingers at the others saying "but they did it, too".

the better way would be to admit it, keep it in mind, thereby makeing sure it cannot happen again.

Re:My response to the county

[Durandal64]

Could you please post in normal text next time? Horizontal scrolling is a pain in the ass.

Re:My response to the county

[commodoresloat]

I bet it was less well written, if you spell hope with a "v"!

Re:My response to the county

[Daniel Dvorkin]

For millions of Americans, the "master-slave" relationship means one thing and one thing only: over 200 years of institutionalized, legal American slavery.

Then those Americans are ignorant.

Slavery -- human slavery, I mean, not the machine kind -- is a curse that has afflicted humanity throughout its existence, and continues to do so today. To limit one's viewpoint of the word to a specific period in the history of a young nation is to pretend that the suffering of the (at a guess) tens of millions of slaves throughout history who were not black Americans has no meaning ... and to pretend that slavery is a solved problem, when in fact, there are probably more slaves worldwide today than at any previous time in history.

Two-thirds of my father's family died in the Holocaust, but you don't see me acting as though genocide is something that only happens to Jews.

Re:My response to the county

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey I dont disagree that this whole thing is stupid and a waste of time but I just thought it was funny you used "manhours" instead of "people hours",
better watch that stuff when you're trying to make a point, it sort of shows you're a biggot

hahaha, people sure get offended easily
;)

Re:My response to the county

[Anonymous Coward]

Instead of MASTER and SLAVE, why not call it GOVERNMENT and TAXPAYER?

Re:My response to the county

[ONOIML8]

"Insisting that vendors comply with the requirements in the memo makes the county look extremely, extremely foolish..."

That's ok, it's not the only thing that makes LA County look foolish. Sadly this is just one of many things.

Re:My response to the county

[Anonymous Coward]

Especially considering human slaves have come in every color available to humans for as long as there have been humans.

Re:My response to the county

[b-baggins]

I have completely lost patience with these jackasses who go on and on about the horrible American institution of slavery. I want to grab their face and shove it into the soil of Antietam, or Gettysburg, or any of the other hundreds of battlefields where the life blood of over three hundred thousand union soldiers was shed to end slavery in this nation. That's three hundred thousand DEAD. Three hundred THOUSAND. Not three hundred like in Iraq. Three hundred THOUSAND.

Gettysburg: 23,000
Chickamauga: 16,000
Chancellorsville: 17,000
Spotsylvania: 18,000
Antietam: 12,410
Battle of The Wilderness: 17,666
Battle of Second Manassas: 16,054
Battle of Stone's River: 12,906
Battle of Shiloh: 13,047

Name me any other nation in the history of this world that shed its own blood and spilled the blood of its own people to end slavery.

We have paid the debt, in full, a thousand times over for slavery in this country, and I refuse to acknowledge the credibility of any person who still has the shameless gaul to bring it up to feed their petty little hatreds and jealousies or advance their personal power and influence.

Re:My response to the county

[Anonymous Coward]

biggot

Or a Niggot.

Re:My response to the county

[c13v3rm0nk3y]

Perhaps it would be an interesting exercise to destroy this labeling on each drive, spending thousands of manhours and voiding manufacturers' warranties in the process.

Uo-oh. You've used the term "man-hours". Ironically, the majority of computer parts are assembled by women.

Re:My response to the county

[Daniel Dvorkin]

Agreed. The only caveat I'd add is that it does seem that the ideas of the slaveholding culture -- weakened over time, to be sure, mutated and distorted, but still recognizable as such -- are currently in the political ascendant. And understandably, a lot of people are pretty pissed off about that. The American Revolution began in 1776, and seemed to have been won in 1865 ... but the current goings-on in Washington sure do bring "a new breed of glittering men" to mind.

Re:My response to the county

[Anonymous Coward]

it was funny you used "manhours" instead of "people hours"

No, "people hours" would only work if he said "menhours"

The correct term would be peroffspringhours (because you can't use the term person, as the root word 'son' implies a male bias.)

Re:My response to the county

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe you should have a bigger/wider screen next time, as I was not required to scroll in this left-to-right manner which caused you much pain to your ass.

Re:My response to the county

[ryen]

make sure your congressman/congresswoman gets ahold of that too.

Re:My response to the county

[placeclicker]

Heh, they're politicians, you really think they're going to understand that?

Re:My response to the county

[swillden]

There was NEVER 200 years of legal slavery in America

Umm, perhaps you meant to say "There was NEVER 200 years of legal slavery in the United States of America".

Black slavery in North America (which is what was generally meant by the term "America", even though that actually applies equally well to the southern continent) began in 1619 in Jamestown, Virginia, and continued legally until the ratification of the 13th amendment in 1865, a period of 246 years, though individual northern states had emancipated the slaves piecemeal a few years earlier.

However, it's still rather silly to equate slavery with American slavery -- we were hardly the first, by several thousand years. For that matter, we were far from the last, either.

Re:My response to the county

[Anonymous Coward]

The white man is trying to keep the black man down.

Re:My response to the county

[Jack Auf]

For millions of Americans, the "master-slave" relationship means one thing and one thing only: over 200 years of institutionalized, legal American slavery.

Yeah, nevermind the Egyptians had slaves, or many African tribes that made slaves of the captured members of other tribes, or the Aztecs, or the Incas. It was only the Americans that ever had slaves.

Re:My response to the county

[tomRakewell]

There was NEVER 200 years of legal slavery in America. This country came into being in 1783.

First slaves arrived in Jamestown in 1619. African slavery was legalized in Virgina and Maryland in the mid 1600s. Slavery is not abolished until 1865.

Re:My response to the county

[mikestro]

I call bullshit.

Re:My response to the county

[M. Baranczak]

Perhaps it would be an interesting exercise to destroy this labeling on each drive, spending thousands of manhours and voiding manufacturers' warranties in the process.

Uo-oh. You've used the term "man-hours". Ironically, the majority of computer parts are assembled by women.

Maybe so, but the males of the species have a definite lead when it comes to screwing around with the hardware and voiding the warranty.

Re:My response to the county

[thetaikung]

I'm not even going to get into why you need to learn some history. The civil war was not fought with the primary goal of ending slavery. I have completely lost patience with these jackasses who think it was.

Re:My response to the county

[WhoCouldItBe]

Whoa there! Presidential proclamation? You mean the Emancipation Proclamation?!?

*sigh* Looks like another /. reader was skipping history class.

The Emancipation Proclamation only freed slaves in states that were considered to be REBELLIOUS. This means southern states during the Civil War that were not under US control. Legally the Emancipation Proclamation did absolutely nothing to free slaves in the northern states, though there was certainly some PR appeal in making such a public proclamation.

Lincoln's proclamation was all well and good, but the southern states no longer reconginzed the authority of the United States or of President Lincoln so in effect the Emancipation Proclamation did nothing to help 'free the slaves'.

I'm not sure what the anti-slavery wording in the Constitution that you're refering to is, but slavery was not abolished in the United States until the 13th Amendment was ratified in 1865.

Re:My response to the county

[WhoCouldItBe]

Ah yes the Aztecs. Not only did they have enormous numbers of slaves, many of them had the added bonus of being used as human sacrifices...

Re:My response to the county

[Anonymous Coward]

Dave is your cat dead or alive at the moment?

I can you check if you're busy.

Re:My response to the county

[Anonymous Coward]

Did Native Americans (aka, Injuns) really practice slavery?

Re:My response to the county

[Daniel Dvorkin]

This is an old argument, and probably about as pointless as those over gun control or abortion. But I'm going to try ...

The Union went to war for the primary purpose of keeping the Union intact, true. But the Confederate states seceded because they believed (rightly or wrongly -- there's no way to know, of course, what would have happened had the war not been fought) that Lincoln intended to enact Abolition. Any other arguments for secession (tariff issues, etc.) were tacked on after the fact. An analysis of the writings of the time clearly shows that slavery and slavery alone was the cause of the war.

And by the end of the war, the Union felt this way too. "As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free ..."

Re:My response to the county

[conan_albrecht]

This was on NPR a couple of day ago -- specifically the Diane Ream show. Go look it up. And NPR is *liberal*! Yet they still showed very clear how slavery was right smack center.

Anyone who doesn't believe the core issue was slavery doesn't understand the time period. Yes, the actual political reasons were otherwise (states rights, right of secession, etc.), but the core issue *was* slavery.

Re:My response to the county

[MoggyMania]

"Auschwitz can only really bring up one meaning, the slaugtering of the Jews"

Actually, *far* more than just Jewish people were killed. Roma Gypsies, disabled people, homosexuals -- all kinds of minorities were murdered in the Eugenics movements. There was a large Eugenics movement in the Western World in general, including a huge one in the USA that was only partially derailed by anti-Nazi sentiment and thus still lives on in certain obscure laws.

Re:My response to the county

[Anonymous Coward]

No, really, I am. No bullshit. It's getting harder these days but I'm still managing OK.

Re:My response to the county

[AndroidCat]

And from the definitive reference on the English language, Oxford University's Oxford English Dictionary

As much as I love the OED (must have leather-bound edition, my pressuuss...), that involves the old argument of whether dictionaries define or document langauge. I had more to say, but then started to reach for a dictionary to check 'definitive'. D'OH!

Re:My response to the county

[mcg1969]

Well yes, Aztecs did perform human sacrifice. But they were Native Americans, driven basically extinct by evil European explorers. So how dare you insult them by highlighting undesirable, but true, facts about their culture! Shame on you!

Re:My response to the county

[mcg1969]

Interestingly, there are, in fact, more people in slavery in the world today than there ever were in the United States.

Re:My response to the county

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe try using another browser.
Mozilla Firebird 0.7 displays it fine at less than 400 pixels... or maybe your screen isn't that wide? Then don't complain about page width when you're browsing from a mobile phone.

Re:My response to the county

[10Ghz]

Name me any other nation in the history of this world that shed its own blood and spilled the blood of its own people to end slavery.

Well, maybe not to end slavery, but finns spilled ALOT of blood to prevent that slavery from ever taking place. Or, as Winston Churchill said in his "House of many mansions"-speech:

Only Finland-superb, nay, sublime-in the jaws of peril-Finland shows what free men can do. The service rendered by Finland to mankind is magnificent. They have exposed, for all the world to see, the military incapacity of the Red Army and of the Red Air Force. Many illusions about Soviet Russia have been dispelled in these few fierce weeks of fighting in the Arctic Circle. Everyone can see how Communism rots the soul of a nation; how it makes it abject and hungry in peace, and proves it base and abominable in war. We cannot tell what the fate of Finland may be, but no more mournful spectacle could be presented to what is left to civilised mankind than that this splendid Northern race should be at last worn down and reduced to servitude worse than death by the dull brutish force of overwhelming numbers. If the light of freedom which still burns so brightly in the frozen North should be finally quenched, it might well herald a return to the Dark Ages, when every vestige of human progress during two thousand years would be engulfed.

Had USA lost as many men is WW2 as Finland did in the Winter War alone, it would have meant losses of over 2 million men in a war that lasted for 105 days. I think we have spilled more than enough blood.

Re:My response to the county

[terminal.dk]

What is the problem with master/slave ?

Seems like the they are trying to go into denial, just like the nazis said the holocaust, and killing jews did not take place. Or the russians in the sixties. If the words disappears it has never happened.

I think it is over the edge. Here in Denmark, the words for the different disabled groups has changed a few times, as it takes less than 10 years before the new word is used in some negative way. So a blind is blind, and most other have returned to the original word as well.

The Garbage collectors had a couple of names as well (sanitizing workers among other), but they are back to garbage collectors. That is what they do, pick up garbage.

I think that is LA is serious, they should scrap all the ATA harddrives the have, and preferable all motherboards with master/slave supprt as well. Would be good for the computer industry.

Re:My response to the county

[Simple-Simmian]

Eugenics lives on in Planned Parenthood.

Re:My response to the county

[Anonymous Coward]

He also said "Manufactured" rather than "personufactured"

Re:My response to the county

[Anonymous Coward]

Two-thirds of my father's family died in the Holocaust, but you don't see me acting as though genocide is something that only happens to Jews.

Indeed. It's happening to Palestinians today too.

Re:My response to the county

[Anonymous Coward]

Looks fine in IE...no matter how narrow I make the window.

I suggest you get a real browser.

Re:My response to the county

[GenSolo]

For millions of Americans, the "master-slave" relationship means one thing and one thing only: over 200 years of institutionalized, legal American slavery.
You, sir, are a racist and an anti-globalistic biggot! Do you think slavery was invented by the United States Government? Of course not! It was an issue long before the Contitutional convention. When the Roman legions conquered a new province, they enslaved most of the population! Let's also not forget that the Hebrews spent decades enslaved in Egypt. For that matter, do you realize that the white man never enslaved the black man in Africa? Yes, it was a terrible thing for white people in this country to keep black people as slaves, but do you know where those slaves came from? They were captured and enslaved by Africans! And these were black Africans, often Muslim invaders. It was a standard practice for the Ottoman Empire's invading armies to enslave anyone who refused to convert to Islam. Check any history book on India.

If "master-slave" truly means one thing only to millions of Americans, then those millions of Americans need to pull their self-absorbed heads out of their asses and quit giving the other tens of millions of us a bad name.

I'm sick of all you PC fuckheads bitching because you think every fucking word in the English language was developed solely to offend your worthless ass.

Re:My response to the county

[Anonymous Coward]

America did *not* exist in 1619.

Or you mean America the continent? What about the Mayas or the Incas? They had pretty much of slaves before the 15th century.

Re:My response to the county

[teval]

Most of my family died in camps like that too. Yeah.. slavery is bad. I think we can all agree on this. But that reference to the word slave has nothing to do with actual slavery as you understand it. Look it up in Webster.

I for one have never been offended by the word slave, and don't plan on it. They are just words, and I'm sure harddrives don't have feelings. I hate all this political correctness. It's so pointless, and makes the language sound cluttered.

Master/Slave has been around for ages, and no it's not meant to be offensive. Noone I've ever explained that to has ever been offended, and that's while running my own computer repair buisness.

Re:My response to the county

[cloudmaster]

We can only vope. ;)

Re:My response to the county

[GenSolo]

An analysis of the writings of the time clearly shows that slavery and slavery alone was the cause of the war.
You were right until this point. There were things other than slavery. Slavery was the central issue and the breaking point, definitely, but there were other issues. The primary problem was that South Carolina (they left first... there were others but I don't remember how many of them really cared and how many were like North Carolina and seceded because they were surrounded by Confederate states) felt that it had the right to determine the legality of slavery within the state. The issue was states' rights, not just slavery. If the states' rights issue had been settled before, there would have been no secession.

Re:My response to the county

[Anonymous Coward]

Then those Americans are ignorant.

Funny - you could have left off the first two words of that sentence, and it would still be true! :o)

Re:My response to the county

[mcg1969]

In case someone wants to read some support for this assertion: National Geographic

Re:My response to the county

[dheltzel]

It was only the Americans that ever had slaves

Well, we Americans are (a little) ego-centic (and generally ignorant of any non-US world history). You need to forgive us if we think we invented slavery also.

I wonder if anyone has patented "the use of human capitol against their will for the personal pursuit of riches" yet. If not, I predict there will be a patent filing for this in the very near future. But perhaps SCO has some prior art (mentioning SCO usually helps me get modded up - bring it on).

Re:My response to the county

[haxor.dk]

Excelllent response, but you should have added that having people to decide such nonsense is a waste of your taxpayer money, and they you demand to see the person responsible for it fired.

California is after all the US state with the highest general tax level - and this is what you tax dollars are used for ?!

Re:My response to the county

[brsmith4]

Dude, you are wrong. The south did what it did because the north was imposing ridiculous trade rules on the south, because northern politicians were catering to special interests who's bottom line was being affected by the souths decision to trade heavily with England. It was really these laws that were passed, designed souly to hurt southern states and push them back into primary trade with the north, that pissed them off. Yeah, the Abolition thing was an issue, but the south was taking it in the ass in a number of other ways that were more important. Here's a link to some info http://ngeorgia.com/history/why.html

Re:My response to the county

[Anonymous Coward]

To the rest of the world, NPR would be considered centrist. To Americans, it's liberal. That says something about America, and it ain't good.

Re:My response to the county

[Daniel Dvorkin]

The only states' right the South cared enough about to actually tear apart the Union for was the "right" to hold human property in the form of slaves. That's what I meant by "sole cause." IOW, IMO, slavery and the threat of abolition alone would have caused them to secede, without any of the other issues being present; without that issue, none of the other issues would have been sufficient to bring about the war.

Re:My response to the county

[c13v3rm0nk3y]

...the males of the species have a definite lead when it comes to screwing around with the hardware and voiding the warranty.

Believe it. I've turned several "projects" into parts-box candidates, myself.

Re:My response to the county

[dublin]

The American Revolution began in 1776, and seemed to have been won in 1865 ...

You couldn't be more wrong in your grasp of history. There never was an "American Revolution", but rather a "War for Independence". France had a revolution - there's a BIG difference. Try reading some actual history (preferably based on original sources) to learn more.

Secondly, from the point of view of freedom, the War Between the States (that war's official designation even by the US Congress, and not a "Civil War" under any circumstances) destroyed the last vestiges of freedom held by the people and thier states. I don't say that just because I'm a Southerner, but because it's true - self determination was terminated at the point of a bayonet during that war, and we've been suffering under the illusion that we're actually free since then. Look into Lincoln's blatantly illegal actions in stacking the Supreme Court, creating a new state (WV) by fiat to realign the balance of power in Congress in his favor, and more. And don't even get me started on the illegality of the 14th amendment and the way it's been used to justify the federal government's involvement in every minute aspect of our lives...

Black or white, we all lost our freedom in 1865, and the country can never again be what the founders intended, and what it once was. In reality, slavery was not ended, but expanded to cover the entire citizenry.

Re:My response to the county

[dublin]

The only states' right the South cared enough about to actually tear apart the Union for was the "right" to hold human property in the form of slaves. That's what I meant by "sole cause." IOW, IMO, slavery and the threat of abolition alone would have caused them to secede, without any of the other issues being present; without that issue, none of the other issues would have been sufficient to bring about the war.

Sorry, but this is the typical misunderstanding of one whose opinion on this period in history has been shaped by historians view rather than by reading the copious original source material availalbe. If you bother to do that, you'll see that slavery was only a very minor political issue. It wasn't even held up as a "cause" of the war in the North for the first 50 years or so after the war, because everyone, NOrth and South, knew that was wrong. It's really a very interesting study in the mechaincs of historical revisionism...

Go back and read original sources, not historians' retelling of them, and you'll be able to see the real truth for yourself - and you'll be quite surprised that you could have got it so wrong...

Re:My response to the county

[Anonymous Coward]

You are confused by revisionist history. Do you really think thousands of southern citizens, the vast majority who did not own slaves, were willing to go to war to protect something for the rich plantation owners? Or that the majority of northern citizens were really going to fight and die to free those slaves? That is idealistic altruism. The war was fought over the right of a state to decide its fate outside of the Union. The federalists won. Washington is in charge, not your state government. After 1864, we became the United States by force, not by choice. Slavery was brought in by Lincoln to put a shining gloss on his opression of the southern agricutural states.

Re:My response to the county

[Anonymous Coward]

Go back and read original sources, not historians' retelling of them, and you'll be able to see the real truth for yourself - and you'll be quite surprised that you could have got it so wrong...

Any suggestions for primary source reading? Genuinely curious Yankee...

Re:My response to the county

[toriver]

First slaves arrived in

the British colonial city

Jamestown in 1619

Centuries before that, Vikings for instance had held European raid captives as slaves. Go figure.

Re:My response to the county

[jhwang]

Black or white, we all lost our freedom in 1865, and the country can never again be what the founders intended, and what it once was. In reality, slavery was not ended, but expanded to cover the entire citizenry.

Do you mean the economic "slavery" unleashed on exploited workers and small rural farmers by robber barons in the ensuing Gilded Age? The economic elite that amassed power during the last third of the nineteenth century probably felt like they gained a lot of "freedom". Well, until those damn socialists began enacting "Progressive reforms" in the 20th century. :-)

Re:My response to the county

[Anonymous Coward]

"...shameless gaul to bring it up..."

Not being a grammar Nazi here, but you meant "gall."

"Gaul" is (courtesy of dictionary.com): "An ancient region of western Europe south and west of the Rhine River, west of the Alps, and north of the Pyrenees, corresponding roughly to modern-day France and Belgium. The Romans extended the designation to include northern Italy, particularly after Julius Caesar's conquest of the area in the Gallic Wars (58-51 B.C.)."

Re:My response to the county

[Valdrax]

Traditionally, states rights and small government have been conservative issues, whereas Abolition and civil rights have been liberal issues. People often forget that in the days of Lincoln, the proto-Republicans were the liberals and the proto-Democrats were the conservatives. This is a good part of why "Southern Democrat" always used to mean a conservative, and why the Democrats used to hold a lot of power in the South before the Nixon administration in spite of being an extremely conservative constituency. States rights are mostly a forgotten issue now, but many conservative thinkers still think in those terms.

Also, I would note that Jefferson Davis, the president of the Confederacy, also abolished slavery towards the end of the war in a hope to end it. Even though it would've meant losing on the issue of slavery, he thought that staying separated from the Union was more important in the long run and that that decision might end the fighting. He was wrong, of course, but it does show which point was more important in his mind and that of many others in the South.

Re:My response to the county

[Anonymous Coward]

Not only does master/slave apply to computers, but it's been used for a hundred years before computers were ever a dream.

Master/slave cylinders (hydraulics), motors (a trick to make 3 phase power), and mechanics (everything from a pattern that's used to lathe table legs, make wooden shoes, and even keys.

It is a highly accurate and descriptive term, that's well understood.

Sooo. California sucks.

Re:My response to the county

[Anonymous Coward]

That is just because the rest of the world has been brainwashed by the Marxists. I hear enough idiocy from NPR. I shudder when I think about how much bullshit must be being put out in the rest of the world.

slave overlords?

[Anonymous Coward]

I for one welcome our new slave overlords?

I think it's a great idea.

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's use some other term for that. What about white/black?

Re:I think it's a great idea.

[Anonymous Coward]

"nigger" and "cracker"

Re:I think it's a great idea.

[Vihai]

I'd propose The Giver/The Receiver

Re:I think it's a great idea.

[krymsin01]

How about ale/beer?

You know it's true!

Re:I think it's a great idea.

[Anonymous Coward]

From now on:

Black wires shall be "Wires of African Descent"
Red wires shall be "Native American Wires" -- although, "Indigineous Wires" is also acceptable.
Green wires shall be "Environmental Friendly Wires"
White wires shall be "Evil and Oppressive Wires"

Sigh...

Re:I think it's a great idea.

[SoupaFly]

Cheney/Bush.

They think that's bad

[helix400]

Wow, I wonder what they'll say when they realize why some computer cables ends are called male and female.

Re:They think that's bad

[niko9]

"Wow, I wonder what they'll say when they realize why some computer cables ends are called male and female."

Wait 'till you tell them said cables are being used on a computer running a "stoned beaver" OS kernel!

Re:They think that's bad

[vistic]

"my god.
think of the children."

Re:They think that's bad

[Anonymous Coward]

I've called something a mating connector and gotten funny looks. I still use the term anyway.

Re:They think that's bad

[identity0]

Conservative: The institution of cable plugging is a sacred gift from God!! We shall not let this homo-endian agenda destroy the sacred union of RS-232 plug & socket!

Liberal: Just because some plugs like other plugs does not make the data connections any less legitamite! Plug-to-plug and socket-to-socket connections work just as well as plug-and-socket connections! We must stop those bigoted engineers from 'fixing' them, and allow civil connections between them!

Re:They think that's bad

[yet another coward]

You must not know. I heard about this move several years ago while studying electrical engineering. They are now called plugs, formerly male connectors and sockets, formerly female connectors. Check out this Google search to see. As long as we can speak to one another with minimal confusion, why would anyone resist the change?

sed s/female/socket/ | sed s/male/plug/

Re:They think that's bad

[tkw954]

And what about when they find out one of their employees has a framed certificate that says "Master of Science"?

Re:They think that's bad

[guzzloid]

But what about a kettle lead? The female end plugs into a male socket! Would that be a new verb: socketing? Would you have us socketing our sockets into our plugs? Can a cable even have sockets? If I'm holding the socket end of a cable, where do I plug it in? What if a cable had sockets (female) on both ends? Would I plug 2 sockets into 2 other sockets? If I asked you to "pass me the socket", which of the four items would you give me? In soviet russia, plugs socket into you! My brain hurts.

Re:They think that's bad

[deniable]

But i want to be a Slave of Science.

Re:They think that's bad

[Pinky]

God forbid they discouver the black, white, red, yellow electrical cables.

Re:They think that's bad

[Guppy06]

"Wait 'till you tell them said cables are being used on a computer running a "stoned beaver" OS kernel!"

I don't get it. How did Canadians come into this?

Re:They think that's bad

[Scrameustache]

"So I plugged the male end of my Master cable into the slave and booted the stoned beaver...whaddaya mean I'm fired?"

Re:They think that's bad

[Anonymous Coward]

somebody wanna 'splain this one?

Re:They think that's bad

[yet another coward]

"Socket" already is a verb. It has been for at least 470 years. Obviously, one can plug a plug into a socket. Similarly, one can socket a plug with a socket. The nouns and the verbs match well. I never heard anyone talking about maling or femaling connectors together. "Connect" is another perfectly good verb. After all, aren't they all connectors? As the great LAPD ass whup victim Rodney King opined, "Can't we all just get along?"

Re:They think that's bad

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, but that's nonsense.

To be pedantic: the use of the word "socket" as a verb is only found in modern American or colloquial English. Look up "socket" in a British or International English dictionary and you will see it listed as a noun only. e.g. http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=754 42&dict=CALD

The "1533" listed in your reference (Merriam-Webster -- a modern American english dictionary) refers only to the usage of the word "socket" itself, and most definitely does NOT refer to the specific application of the word as a transitive verb. The unfortunate listing of the date under the verb is misleading. (A side-effect of a database-driven website blindly serving data without context or deeper understanding, I suppose. See http://www.bartleby.com/61/88/S0528800.html for a better presentation).

See http://www.m-w.com/dates.htm -- dates for first recorded occurrence are not related to the actual meaning of the word in modern English.

You can also see the 1828 definition here. Note that in 1828 the word is not listed as a verb.

Check the etymology in a more complete source than an online dictionary to see what I mean...

Wow, guess I got a bit carried away with this reply. I think I'm turning into some kind of language lawyer or "word addict". :o

Re:They think that's bad

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget that the conservative would make male/female converters that allow male/male connections illegal.

Re:They think that's bad

[jadavis]

victim

Uh-huh... sure... The way I heard the story he was being pretty violent himself, but that part of the tape was not admitted as evidence. I'm not saying that police should beat him up when they're not in danger, but "victim" is I think too strong a word.

Re:They think that's bad

[teval]

The new Linux kernel, it's dubbed "stoned beaver" You don't read Linus' advisories when he releases a new kernel? *gasps* I still like the old "greasy weasel" name, that's just me though.

Re:They think that's bad

[Anonymous Coward]

You heard? Anyone who listens long enough can hear anything. Who told you?

"Victim" is one subjected to mistreatment. If you think the cops' continuing to beat his ass long after he was obviously incapacitated is just, it is your fault.

Re:They think that's bad

[yet another coward]

I found a Spectrum article about jacks, plugs and sockets. I cannot recall whether my professor said "socket" or "jack."

Your post is nonsense. I felt puzzled because the verb has a separate date, 15th century, from the noun, 1533. The two disagree blatantly. The two differ by at least 32 years. You misunderstood the Merriam-Webster clarification of dates and incorrectly blamed it on the database. Additionally, the 1828 link you provide, while it does not list "socket" as a verb, does list "unsocket" as a verb.

I checked to OED. Needless to write, I am right. "1533 Lett. & P. Hen. VIII, VI. 642 For mendyng and sockettyng newe Cressytts." Henry VIII most definitely was not American, but English. Next time you consider being pedantic, make sure to be correct, too.

Re:They think that's bad

[Sentry21]

Wait 'till you tell them said cables are being used on a computer running a "stoned beaver" OS kernel!

Like, I as a Canadian find that term offensive. It impllies that like, we Canadians are a total bunch of like potheads man. I mean, like really. You Ameridudes really need to like, chill out you know. Like, relax for a while and just veg out man. Just let it all go man, and live together in like, harmony man.

--Like, Dan, y'know?

Re:They think that's bad

[Patrik_AKA_RedX]

But i want to be a Slave of Science.

Ok.

Clean those test tubes faster!

Re:They think that's bad

[Anonymous Coward]

You're not a Canadian, you're a goddamn Valley-Girl, eh?!?

Name Change

[mvpll]

So now we have to have dominant and submissive hard drives???

Re:Name Change

[helix400]

I personally am hoping for oppressor/oppressee. It's much for fun to use, and it's even less politically correct. =)

Re:Name Change

[Anonymous Coward]

But what do you call a drive that shits its self?

Re:Name Change

[Anonymous Coward]

Western digital?

Re:Name Change

[Anonymous Coward]

But what do you call a drive that shits its self?

Nerd.

Re:Name Change

[Meshach]

I wonder what they think of other computer terms:

"jumpers" (muggers)
"mother" boards

These people have way too much time on their hands...

Re:Name Change

[SkArcher]

Timothy has the right idea

from the sub-instead-taxpayer-scum/righteous-despot dept.

Re:Name Change

[Anonymous Coward]

Instead of Master/Slave, they should have White/Black.

Re:Name Change

[Anonymous Coward]

Or how about Niggaz/Bitchaz.

Re:Name Change

[imtheguru]

i remember connecting two drives to one channel used to be called Daisy Chaining.

Boobalicious_Daisy / Pre-pubescent_Daisy?

Re:Name Change

[E_elven]

> So now we have to have dominant and submissive hard drives???

'Top' and 'bottom' have fewer letters and are therefore the correct terminology.

Re:Name Change

[Anonymous Coward]

Heh.. "board" reminds me too much of "bored", and makes me depressed. When IT folk talk about motherBOARDs and video-BOARDs, it makes an uncomfortable work environment.

In the future, vendors who wish to work with me should not have any boards in their devices.

Re:Name Change

[gid13]

Maybe this is the result of growing up in Canada, but when I first read the article title, I thought THAT was the group they were worried about offending. The racial implications didn't even enter my mind. I wonder if that's good or bad.

Re:Name Change

[smithmc]

'Top' and 'bottom' have fewer letters and are therefore the correct terminology.

I believe these are the terms used in San Francisco.

Re:Name Change

[Trejkaz]

Tubby

Re:Name Change

[Michael JasonSmith]

Unfortunately top and bottom denote physical locations so it could confuse the masses.

How about dominator and submissive. Or should that be dominatrix...

Re:Name Change

[Pinky]

Someone's gone and added a ridding crop to my HD icon..

Re:Name Change

[Anonymous Coward]

I like Master drive and Servant drives better. All the /.'ers who trick out their systems with plexi and neon could put leather on their disks.

Re:Name Change

[rowanxmas]

No, no,
in San Francisco everyone knows its "Pitcher" and "Catcher".

The best part is that these could be used since they are baseball terms as well as butt-sex terms.

Re:Name Change

[anon*127.0.0.1]

I remember a passage in an old, old Apple DOS manual. One of the spiral bound dealies that was put out by Apple itself. I forget the exact context, but there were talking about Master/Slave floppy disks, explaining how the master disk had the boot files and the slave disk didn't. Then there was a comment that went something like "Though the master and slave disk look identical in their snazzy black plastic coats (not it's PLASTIC, not leather!), there's an important difference etc etc etc...

I always wondered how a kinky sex reference got into an incredibly dull and boring reference manual.

Re:Name Change

[tacarat]

What happens if there's a case of role reversal? An OS drive having to submit to a data drive? Oh. Wait. There's already proprietary software to do that...

Re:Name Change

[Dumbush]

How about...
American/Iraq?

jk, don't mod me down please =(

Re:Name Change

[M. Baranczak]

"Manager/Employee".

It basically means the same thing as "Master/Servant", just less archaic.

Re:Name Change

[Anonymous Coward]

I personally am hoping for oppressor/oppressee. It's much for fun to use, and it's even less politically correct. =)

Now we see the violence inherent in the system! Now we see the violence inherent in the system!

Re:Name Change

[imbaczek]

Bush/terrorist perhaps?

Think about it. Primary Bush, secondary Bush...

Re:Name Change

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't worry. I'm from the American South and I thought the same thing. It's just if you're not a racist, the racist accusation is further from your mind.

Re:Name Change

[jc42]

Well, we could call them leader/acolyte.

Or we could even preserve half the terminology, and use master/disciple. The religious folk should like that.

There are lots of alternatives.

The dom/sub pair is a good one, though. It does go along with the usual meaning of master/slave in a computing context.

I wonder how long it would take to 1) get all standards orgs to decide on the replacement terms, and 2) convert all existing standards documents to use the new terms.

sex shops too?

[searleb]

what about all the sex shops in LA County?

Re:sex shops too?

[Anonymous Coward]

Considering the subject line of the message this would seem to be of utmost importance.

Subject: IDENTIFICATION OF EQUIPMENT SOLD TO LA COUNTY

I'm pretty sure we all know how responsible our politicians are. *cough*

Re:sex shops too?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, and no more South Park over there.

Mr Slave has been naughty today, children.

Re:sex shops too?

[geekoid]

They're Great!

Re:sex shops too?

[TomDLux]

I guess the the BDSM practitioners will have to start referring to Senior Partner & Junior Partner.

Re:sex shops too?

[Anonymous Coward]

I know California is a progressive place in some sense, but are there really any sex shops that have an ongoing business relationship as a vendor with the county procurement office? If so, perhaps this kind of creative use of taxpayer money is one reason why the State of California is having budgetary problems. :-)

Re:sex shops too?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sex shops in LA don't sell hardware to the governm...oh wait, nevermind.

Re:sex shops too?

[JabberWokky]

This actually worries me. Would BDSM practioners in LA be able to sue the county for fostering an unwelcome environment? The Leather Pride and SSC groups should really at least write a letter.

--
Evan

eh?

[Graspee_Leemoor]

It's not an "interesting twist" on political correctness, it's just another example of it.

graspee

Well .....

[taniwha]

We better be carefull and not tell them abot the sexing of plugs and connectors ....

Local economy

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder how this will impact the film industry...

What does the county prefer?

[Gyan]

Daddy/Bitch

Re:What does the county prefer?

[u-235-sentinel]

Next thing you know they will outlaw "Master and Commander" from viewing in LA Country.

Get real.

Re:What does the county prefer?

[echucker]

Or perhaps Father/altarboy for the clergy among us >:-)

Re:What does the county prefer?

[Anonymous Coward]

Honky/Nigger

<vest type="flame_retardant" worn="over_head">I am the great cornholio!</vest>

Re:What does the county prefer?

[Gyan]

Or maybe Jackson & "son"

Re:What does the county prefer?

[Anonymous Coward]

Here are a few more, but they would get banned even more quickly:
Father/Mother
Daddy/Daughter
Mommy/Son
Big Bother/Little Sister

Political Correctness is pure egotistical B.S.

[eaglebtc]

I think this whole practice of political correctness should be done away with. It is twisting our language too rapidly and preventing the free exercise of speech. Politicians have to grow and pair and get some thicker skin. They must realize that a language develops because people make new terms and apply new definitions to existing words based on events with which they are familiar. You cannot force us to speak differently just so a puny minority will not be offended.

Politicians, I think it is YOU who are offended, not the minority which you claim to represent!

Re:Political Correctness is pure egotistical B.S.

[taniwha]

Politicians have to grow and pair and get some thicker skin.

Urgh! you want them to breed? (sounds like slugs or something)

They must realize that a language develops because people make new terms and apply new definitions to existing words based on events with which they are familiar.

This isn't France - no one gets the last word as to what 'correct' english (or in this case 'merkin) is. We all get to throw words against the common wall and see if they stick - some do some don't - everyone gets a chance - you, me, even the guy who wrote the memo. If you want a wonderfull example of this look at what the Bush administration has done to the language since 9-11.

Politicians, I think it is YOU who are offended, not the minority which you claim to represent!

If you had actually read the article you would have realized that it wasn't a politician who had written the memo at all (not unless LA County has started electing Puchassing Managers)

Re:Political Correctness is pure egotistical B.S.

[Dirtside]

I think this whole practice of political correctness should be done away with.

The problem is, there is no one "practice" of political correctness. What I consider being politically correct, someone else may well consider being racist or sexist, and vice versa.

The obvious response is to say, well, political correctness is whenever you use a different term for something so that you don't offend somebody. Yes, that is what it being P.C. means... nigger. Oh, I'm sorry, you don't like it when I call you a nigger? Well, you don't want me to be politically correct, so I'll use whatever term I like, and you'll sit there and take it without complaint, you kike/wop/kraut/spic/slant-eye/limey/frog.

(In a world where everyone was reasonably intelligent, I wouldn't need to have this disclaimer here, which explains that, no, I don't really condone the use of any of those ethnic slurs: I'm just trying to make a point. Get a grip.)

Re:Political Correctness is pure egotistical B.S.

[baltimoretim]

Please. Railing against "political correctness" is its own kind of egotistical wankery.

Truth is, taken together, the words master and slave have a shameful history, and terrible connotations in this country in particular. They are also easily replaceable in tech jargon (I like primary/secondary, but you can see many good examples in this discussion).

LA County is infringing no one's rights. You can still call the relationship master/slave if you want, that's OK. Just don't expect them to buy disks from you. That's their right.

Re:Political Correctness is pure egotistical B.S.

[Anonymous Coward]

Politicians, I think it is YOU who are offended, not the minority which you claim to represent!

You know, now that I think about it, you are right. Thank God I read Slashdot today!

- Politician

Re:Political Correctness is pure egotistical B.S.

[WankersRevenge]

<soapbox>
There is a place of political correctness. If you look at it in simple terms as not to offend, then yes, it is silly. But if you look at PC speak as a way of RE-DEFINIG objects, and hence, our own relationships to those objects, then you'll realize it has merit. It's not about restricting freedom, rather, its about making the playing field level. Remember words define our thoughts. And if you value the idea that everyone should get a fair shake in life, then you'd see that taking responsibility for your language is a good thing.

In any case, I think the above example is a bit silly. Still, you can argue - successfully - that the terms "master" and "slave" are loaded words in America today. We still haven't figured out the whole race thing and until we do, things like this will keep popping up.

btw, i'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong. I'm just asking you to think about your language. Words have power whether we choose to admit it, or not.
</soapbox>

Re:Political Correctness is pure egotistical B.S.

[Anonymous Coward]

mmm... limey..

Images of British sailors with scurvy aside, all it really brings to mind are fruits.. Sorta like fags and cigarettes..

Funny.

Re:Political Correctness is pure egotistical B.S.

[Anonymous Coward]

In this case. On the other hand, I appreciate being referred to as an employee rather than, say "sales bch."

Re:Political Correctness is pure egotistical B.S.

[Anonymous Coward]

But how do you expect them to get the majority of votes if they don't implement PC? Via the more difficult, unfavorable way that has less career benefit?

Re:Political Correctness is pure egotistical B.S.

[Dancin_Santa]

There has been a serious dilution of the meaning of the term "politically correct". It originally meant being on the "politically correct" side of an issue, which meant that the PC person would take up on the side that most people would find palatable. Essentially, this meant taking positions that were popular. Positions such as "Speech ought to be Free" or "I'm a Christian" were typical examples of political correctness.

Then the conservatives on the radio (starting with Rush, but then fanning out across the gamut) decided that being PC meant being a liberal, after all, liberals are well known for pandering to the masses. So a PC person was one who would take liberal positions. Suddenly controversial issues for which there was no PC side had a PC side: "Abortion should be legal", "Social programs should be fully funded by government". At the same time, conservatives positioned themselves as rebels against this 'rising tide' and said they were anti-PC. They would speak their mind as they saw fit, damn those PC-freaks who just want to shut free-thinkers up.

From this distortion came the concept that any offensive speech is inherently un-PC and that any attempt to stifle such speech was inherently PC. The upshot of this is that people now wonder out loud why they can't use derogatory terms for members of other groups and blame political correctness for stifling the language. This is a fallacy.

It is not a facet of political correctness to believe that some words ought not be used in public or even private. It is simply an acknowledgement that such words can hurt and/or incite others and it is best to lay those terms to rest rather than continue their usage. It is not the target of the words that is lowered by their usage, it is the speaker who shows his true societal maturation when using them.

Re:Political Correctness is pure egotistical B.S.

[ifwm]

"It is not a facet of political correctness to believe that some words ought not be used in public or even private. It is simply an acknowledgement that such words can hurt and/or incite others and it is best to lay those terms to rest rather than continue their usage" I disagree. The idea that restricting use of a word is the best way to prevent it's usage is absurd. Too many people exist who would use any means necessary to incite another person, and by assigning such importance to these words, we only give them ammunition.

Re:Political Correctness is pure egotistical B.S.

[Infinity Salad]

But racist terminology is double-plus bad!

Re:Political Correctness is pure egotistical B.S.

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, you could refer to me as any of those things and I would't be offended at all. Should I be?

Depending on the context, I might assume you to be ignorant in some way. I might laugh if there is some joke or irony involved. But I definitely wouldn't be offended.

I don't give others so much control over my state of mind. I strongly recommend this approach.

Re:Political Correctness is pure egotistical B.S.

[Anonymous Coward]

[Political Correctness] is twisting our language too rapidly and preventing the free exercise of speech. Politicians have to grow and pair and get some thicker skin.

Grow *and pair*? Whose twisting the language now?

Re:Political Correctness is pure egotistical B.S.

[Peyna]

Cultural sensitivity is good; PC Nazis are bad.

Re:Political Correctness is pure egotistical B.S.

[psychogentoo]

Please. Railing against "political correctness" is its own kind of egotistical wankery.

You're not being very politically correct. :)

We're not the only culture to have slavery in our history. It would be egotistical to single us out. Cultures throughout history has enslaved others if not to a greater degree. I'm not defending the act of slavery but just point out the that fact.

I think the real issue is not about the master/slave semantics but its just a way for the politicians to earn some votes without doing any real work.

I just wish politicians would be politically correct and focus more on issues that affect the general public on a day-to-day basis.

Re:Political Correctness is pure egotistical B.S.

[Dancin_Santa]

You are right, of course. However, you fail to see how the use of these words by any person reduces the esteem of the person speaking them (you don't fail to see that, I'm sure, but I'm generalizing). In that same vein, it behooves each person to make an effort not to use those words. This includes not only words that have racist connotation (nigger, spic, wop, etc.), but also words that are simply recognized as vulgar (fuck, shit, cunt, etc.).

It is a matter of self-regulation that ought to be practiced by civilized members of society. It, as you seem to imply, ought not be regulated at the governmental level because the government shouldn't be involved in regulating speech at all anyway, obscene or not.

When government starts making regulations like the one in question, it makes no sense to lay the blame at the feet of political correctness. That is not where it came from. Rather, it came from the general concept that one ought to avoid using obscene or derogatory or hurtful words at all. That is not political correctness, but rather a function of socialization. That the government simply takes such an idea too far is a function of a bad and overly powerful government, and that is where the blame lies.

Re:Political Correctness is pure egotistical B.S.

[Anonymous Coward]

We're not the only culture to have slavery in our history. It would be egotistical to single us out. Cultures throughout history has enslaved others if not to a greater degree. I'm not defending the act of slavery but just point out the that fact.

Why bother? Whether or not other cultures have had slavery is irrelevant to the discussion... the terms are tied up in all sorts of historical evil no matter what country you're in.

Saying "well, other countries had slaves too..." is just a fallacious diversionto try to lessen the significance of slavery as it relates to your culture.

Re:Political Correctness is pure egotistical B.S.

[aborchers]

Try again. "Primary" and "secondary" do not mean the same thing as "master" and "slave". A scan of the dictionary (or the ATA bus specifications) should be sufficient proof.

Poor substitutions that decrease the clarity of our communications are not the solution, and are the thing that concerns me most about this campaign against language.

Re:Political Correctness is pure egotistical B.S.

[Frizzle Fry]

Images of British sailors with scurvy aside, all it really brings to mind are fruits

Regardless of what stereotypes may exist of people in sailor outfits, that's the uniform they are required to wear, so I think it is highly offensive for you to call them "fruits".

Re:Political Correctness is pure egotistical B.S.

[Mordanthanus]

Not one I know was ever a slave... Why is it people still take offense to the term?

Re:Political Correctness is pure egotistical B.S.

[Datafage]

What's this "bad?" Do you mean "ungood?" ;)

Re:Political Correctness is pure egotistical B.S.

[Rhiado207]

" But if you look at PC speak as a way of RE-DEFINIG objects, and hence, our own relationships to those objects, then you'll realize it has merit. It's not about restricting freedom, rather, its about making the playing field level. Remember words define our thoughts. And if you value the idea that everyone should get a fair shake in life, then you'd see that taking responsibility for your language is a good thing."

Ignorant fuckwit, life _is_ unfair, the playing
field is _not_ level, and confusing the issue
with trite little fluffy-bunny bullshit will not
help.

Instead of shamelessly nattering about
"fairness", and wasting perfectly good air,
why not go _do_ something about it, hmmm?

Oh, and shut the fuck up ,you're giving me a
headache.

Re:Political Correctness is pure egotistical B.S.

[Infinity Salad]

Gah! I hope the telescreen didn't catch that little slip up!

Re:Political Correctness is pure egotistical B.S.

[TiggsPanther]

LA County is infringing no one's rights. You can still call the relationship master/slave if you want, that's OK. Just don't expect them to buy disks from you. That's their right.

And they'll exercise that right, up until the point that all their hard-drives break and they can't get any replacements,

Re:Political Correctness is pure egotistical B.S.

[GenSolo]

Actually, they don't have the right to discriminate against anyone based on the terminology used by said entity. Unless they want a lawsuit, they can only choose their vendor based on quality of hardware and price.

Re:Political Correctness is pure egotistical B.S.

[Anonymous Coward]

We still haven't figured out the whole race thing and until we do, things like this will keep popping up.
More importantly, until we learn to stop getting offended by words that we assume to be "loaded", we will never really figure out the whole race thing.

Re:Political Correctness is pure egotistical B.S.

[baltimoretim]

Dear LA County:
4 Sale: seaventean 8t jigabite hard disk dryves, str8 from the back of my car. Only $5 each.

Do you think that would be taken seriously by any government procurement agent? Do you think that San Francisco would have been forced by statute to build the "Golden Motherfucking Cock Bridge" if some crazy, tripped out, pornographic construction team made a cheaper proposal than any other? Of course not.

Why? Because terminology and presentation matter, they're a qualitative factor in the purchasing decision. LA County is just another customer in the big free market. Somebody will fill their needs with a "primary/secondary", "mother/daughter" drive or somesuch.

Re:Political Correctness is pure egotistical B.S.

[Tackhead]

> In that same vein, it behooves each person to make an effort not to use those words. This includes not only words that have racist connotation (nigger, spic, wop, etc.), but also words that are simply recognized as vulgar (fuck, shit, cunt, etc.).

For a really good time, go to a campus after the next terrorist attack, and the next time you overhear a heated argument between a hyperliberal Jew-hater and a redneck Moslem-hater, wait for the hick to refer to Arabs as "sand niggers". Then turn around and say "Huh? Dude, what the hell kind insult is that? What do you have against black people?"

Then watch as the mindfuck hits both the hippie and the redneck simultaneously. Enjoy the *boggle* on their faces as their parsing centers slowly fry, but don't forget to use some of those precious seconds to locate the nearest exit when the first one to figure it out goes apeshit on you. :)

Re:Political Correctness is pure egotistical B.S.

[mpe]

I think this whole practice of political correctness should be done away with.

It's been around for a long time.

It is twisting our language too rapidly and preventing the free exercise of speech.

That's what plenty of (varied) political advocates want...

Politicians have to grow and pair and get some thicker skin.

The easiest way to get this is not to have any "professional politicans". Replace them with "regular people" and a lot of stupidity will go away.

They must realize that a language develops because people make new terms and apply new definitions to existing words based on events with which they are familiar. You cannot force us to speak differently just so a puny minority will not be offended.

If people can actually get legislation passed to control how others speak then they are hardly "puny".

Re:Political Correctness is pure egotistical B.S.

[GenSolo]

No, that won't be taken seriously because the quality isn't high enough. Also, no, San Francisco would have the Golden Gate Bridge built by said crazy tripped out pornographic construction team because the construction workers didn't name the bridge. Government agencies have to be very careful with their procurement practices though because if anybody feels they didn't get a fair shake, the government is a big target in court. That's all I was saying.

Re:Political Correctness is pure egotistical B.S.

[Anonymous Coward]

liberals hate Jews?

Re:Political Correctness is pure egotistical B.S.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure ...haven't you read that rag they call the NYTimes, lately?

In California

[tarquin_fim_bim]

They tend to favour the term DOM/SUB quirky I know, but there is a howto.

Re:In California

[Stile 65]

That's Dom/sub, you insensitive clod!

Re:In California

[ShadowBlasko]

"That's Dom/sub, you insensitive clod!"

You know, there were about 15 times in this story/response I have wanted to correct someone for capitalizing sub, and held my tongue.

Now that I can say something good about it.

Well done. (Feeling like I have been well trained for something, just not sure what *lol*)

How about instead of Master and Slave...

[Anonymous Coward]

...we use Asshole Bureaucrat and Fucked-up-the-asshole taxpayer. My libertarian nature tells me any way you jumper your hard drives is alright with me. Heck, even cable select is a-okay with me.

mixed priorities

[ActionPlant]

This is sad and funny at the same time. I can see where someone could potentially be offended to merely hear the terms used, but use some common sense people! Hasn't anyone heard of context? When political correctness stretches so far as to have government offices relabling hard drive configurations to imply that while some drives may not be as gifted as others, all are created equal...I laugh. I've been through my share of drives in my day, and I can guarantee that not all are created equal.

How pathetic have we become? Something like this can only be laughed at, and never really measured.

Pathetic.

Damon,

I, for one,...

[Anonymous Coward]

do NOT welcome our aging P.C. overlords.

Oh dear

[matth]

Oh Dear,
What is the world coming to. What are we going to call them? Surfs and Pesants? White Collar/Blue Collar? Good grief....
MASTER - Takes control/precidence (first drive to boot)
SLAVE - Follows after...

Well...

[daveschroeder]

...they could always go all SCSI.

Re:Well...

[mariox19]

...they could always go all SCSI.

And risk offending the homeless?!

Re:Well...

[Pxtl]

Funny, I always thought it should be pronounced "Sexy" /Spider Robinson

Re:Well...

[jx100]

They seem to be trying to remove all references to sex...

Re:Well...

[dopaz]

Then maybe the Governator's Office will make sure everything is properly terminated.

Re:Well...

[cdf123]

But SCSI has controllers... *gasp*

Re:Well...

[Anonymous Coward]

I've got mod points and I wish I could mod you to +6!

Re:Well...

[Newspimp]

And drive chains. Don't forget about that...

Re:Well...

[Hollinger]

Oh. Wow.

Well done. /me tips his hat to dopaz.

Re:Well...

[Anonymous Coward]

...they could always go all SCSI.

NO! Isn't that pronounced 'SeCSI?' Male chauvinist PIG!

Re:Well...

[Asprin]

BTW, does anyone else remember about 10 or 15 years ago when Apple cooked up that PR campaign to get everyone to stop pronouncing SCSI like 'scuzzy' and instead pronounce it like 'sexy'?

this is retarded

[Anonymous Coward]

I live in LA. This PC BS has gone far enough!! More than just black people were slaves. Romans had slaves, greeks had slaves, the chinese have slave labor. dammit, the whole master-slave thing accurately describes the connection between the devices

Oh Jesus... ...Jesus Christ!

[Prince Cyph0r]

Oh dear, what will happen to our favorite south park duo, Mr. Garrison and his assistant, Slave?

Sounds like someone elses problem

[Anonymous Coward]

I hate to affend California, but this sounds more like a sexual harrasment problem among employees. I feel they should be dealing with this other ways. They are going cause a major pain in everyones butt, and I'm sure the problem will only go away temporarily. They will find something else to comment on.

First things first

[orthogonal]

LA County has banned the use of the terms 'Master/Slave'

Is this the same LA County that has rampant police corruption and brutality problems?

The one in the state, California, that is facing a massive deficit?

Glad to know they have their priorities right.

Re:First things first

[eaglebtc]

I'm just glad I don't live in LA County.

MOD PARENT UP (+1 Insightful)

Re:First things first

[Vladimus]

Yes, and this is the same LA County that requires all strippers to remain 6 feet away from clients at all times, with uniformed police officers at EVERY strip club to enforce regulation.

Your tax dollars at work, citizen.

Re:First things first

[mlk]

Woo, I want to be a cop now...

Re:First things first

[bill_mcgonigle]

Glad to know they have their priorities right.

We've recently found out that if you're a vendor to LA County (they own the hospitals there) you're required to post their wanted posters in the public space (lobby) of your building, even if you're across the country.

Re:First things first

[Razzak]

I've been to many places across the US and never understood the anti-police sentiment. Then I moved to LA for college, and after that I can completely understand all the hatred towards police.

Police = Good
LAPD = Bad.

Re:First things first

[KoshClassic]

Yeah, and this is the same Los Angeles County that is home to the City of Los Angeles - the City Council of which a few months back voted to rename "South Central" LA to "South" LA due to the "negative connotations" that had become associated with the former name. This despite the fact that these same "negative connotations" are primarily attributable to a lack of effective, concrete action by the very same City Council (inability to deal with crime, poverty, gang violence, unemployement, graffitti and a plethora of other problems that make most sane people not want to be alone in that section of the city at night, or any other time for that matter). If the name "south" LA ever catches on one cannot help but wonder what sort of connotations will become associated with it as long as the City Council continues to sit on its ass and take no real action to solve the problems of that area.

Hmm... replacement suggestions

[winkydink]

Top/Bottom?

Pitcher/catcher?

It's just a request

[Our Man In Redmond]

Even so, it's a pointless request, and if enforced would probably mean that LA County couldn't buy hard drives at all, since most drives have clear labels on how to set the "master" and "slave" jumpers.

Uh oh, this post is probably officially data non grata in Los Angeles COunty now.

Re:It's just a request

[barc0001]

No, no, no. They'll just have to switch to SCSI, and pay twice as much. That'll learn them!

Re:It's just a request

[Anonymous Coward]

That'll learn them!

You need to go back to school and teach some grammar.

Re:It's just a request

[Anonymous Coward]

Uhh, I don't think hes eligible to teach. Perhaps u meant learn.

I for one...

[Stile 65]

...am glad I don't live there.

What, you were expecting an overlords joke?

Re:I for one...

[Enry]

I for one welcome our non-overlords-joke-telling overlords. Or should I say masters?

gosh darn...

[mfivis]

Female ports are so useless, all we need are magnetically attracted male tips to all of our wires.

I for one

[Anonymous Coward]

welcome equal rights for all devices. ....Oh, and our PC overlords.

DAMNIT

[Anonymous Coward]

Now there is no way I going to be able to sell them my new exploit prevention software, the MS Buttplug.

Female/Male next?

[FunWithHeadlines]

"I need a mouse adaptor, please. Female to male."

"I'm sorry, sir, but that is politically incorrect language."

"Uh, ok, um, lemme see. Can I please have a mouse adaptor where one end has pins sticking out and one end has holes to fill."

"You trying to be funny with me, boy?"

"Ugh, ok, never mind. Just give me a master/slave controller."

"That's it, I'm calling the police, pervert!"

Re:Female/Male next?

[�nertia]

Beleive it or not but use of gendered language is actually quite influencial on how we perceive attributes and sterotypes of technology to be. Quite alot of people have commented on the use of blatant sexual metaphors in egineering sciences, this is an old issue. And if you look through any psychology journal on language you will no doubt find some studies on this practice. A good book on metaphor which tells of how they serve to highlight or hide information depending on source and target domains is Lakoff & Johnsons, 1980 seminal work entitled metaphors we live by.

The master slave argument is bound to elicit pretty strong feeling in many subgroups, just because the majority of readers on slashdot are white males, does not mean that everyone shares the same ambivilence or distance from such issues as apartheid and racism. I doubt calling an interface a trade center jack, because it contains 2 collapsable cicuits triggered, by a fast moving taliban controler, would receive the ambivilence that the master/slave connector does. Just remember that for some people the connections are closer to home.

Worlds have power, but that power is very dependant on who is looking.

Re:Female/Male next?

[argStyopa]

"Worlds have power, but that power is very dependant on who is looking."

Yeah, but it doesn't mean that all persons PoV's are equally valid.

For example, if one is an idiot. Or hypersensitive.

Re:Female/Male next?

[Transcendent]

Quite alot of people have commented on the use of blatant sexual metaphors in egineering sciences

You mean quite a lot of feminists? The same ones that want to tear down buntly male skyscrapers and replace them with space-inefficient, "womanly organ" like designs?

I doubt calling an interface a trade center jack, because it contains 2 collapsable cicuits triggered, by a fast moving taliban controler, would receive the ambivilence that the master/slave connector does.

Hey, lets think up some more rediculous examples that are totally unrelated since your analogy has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ROOT OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE. We use the terms Master/Slave because of their very definition... not because all computer techs are white supremists. I could call the male/female ends of connectors the "giver and taker" respectively, but hey... I'm not a moron.

Just remember that for some people the connections are closer to home.

And some people go out of their way to find connections and complain about them.

Feminists can complain about skyscrapers, rockets, pens, hell... anything rod shaped because of its male overtone.

"Minority" groups can complain about anything that hints about their troubled past or even current discrimination... even the U.S. White House is racist.

White males.... hell... we really don't care. We could complain that the word "Woman" gives rise to a female superiority over male because of it's a larger word than "man"... thus the male gender lacks which the woman has (even with the male/female... opps.... female/male word comparison). But we have better things to do than worry about what word offends who and what shape ticks off what gender etc etc....

It's called priorities. If everyone ran around correcting everyone pseudo-racist or sexual-overtoned grammer because they're over-reacting to something that's not really there... and we didn't bother with the IMPORTANT issues, then just where would our society be? None of us could speak to, look at, or make any motion toward anyone else because it would offend them... is that a way to run things?

Re:Female/Male next?

[�nertia]

So who would you contest has the most equally valid viewpoint in this debate?

That language does not facilitate discrimination, through continued use of segregative language. (Even when this application is not that which was originally intended). I.e those in power's socially dominant attitude... The more valid point of view. =-P.

Or that Continued use of these terms does lead to conceptual differentiation, and thus discrimination, because similar target domains are represented by the "Unintentional" use. I.e That those who may be discriminated against... don't matter.

The best way to tell who is the dominant group is to observe the attitudes in it's intrests pervades socieity. (Social Dominance Theory.... See Turner et al, Wilson M, 2003, in British Journal of Social Psyc for a good arguement for and against SDO). Using your idiot example, I would conclude that Smart people are the domiant group, using your hypersensitive example I would conclude that Numbed individuals form the dominant group. Not to far from the thruth, and certainly these sentiments pervade a lot of our pop culture. This social representation of a Smart, Numbed individuals.

If you follow this argument, and your are a morally just individual, then you would probably lean towards those in power (Those smart, numbed people) making a judgement call that perhaps it's best to protect the dumb, hypersensitives.
After all the Smart Numbed ones, obviously have little power to change their situation.

Dumb is an Anagram of Numb

Cheers.

Re:Female/Male next?

[dasunt]

The parent poster writes:
The master slave argument is bound to elicit pretty strong feeling in many subgroups, just because the majority of readers on slashdot are white males, does not mean that everyone shares the same ambivilence or distance from such issues as apartheid and racism.

First of all, thank you for judging me by the color of my skin. Unfortunately, since I am a white male, I will be unable to empathize properly with others.

Ne'ermind that 1) "white" Europeans were enslaved by other "white" Europeans and 2) "white" Europeans were enslaved by Arabs and blacks in Africa. [#insert why_dont_they_teach_history_in_schools_rant.txt]

Ne'ermind that slavery still takes place in the world, some of it happening against people who share the beliefs of my family. (Google for slavery in the Sudan, and Christianity, if you are curious -- a lot of it seems to be hype, but there is good evidence of slavery in the Sudan (along with several other spots in the world)).

I think its clear: I have white skin, thus I'm to dumb to realize the political sensitivity of the words "master" and "slave".

However, I am offended at you labeling my according to my skin color.

Re:Female/Male next?

[JonKatzIsAnIdiot]

People like you are dangerous. The ability to take complete bullshit and spin it into something appealing is part of the reason we find ourselves in this situation.

*CLUE* In a technical context, terms such as master/slave and male/female have plainly obvious and well-known definitions. That's what they mean AND NOTHING MORE.

Re:Female/Male next?

[�nertia]

You had to bring in Feminism =-P

Ok You want a good overview on how people view feminism, and just how intergratively weak your definition is have a look at Potter & Weatherall, 1987 (Discourse and Social Psychology). Feminism unfortunately has a rather large and (Rather unjustiied) sterotype, associated with it which you sum up nicely. Let me tell you somthing, your not 100% wrong , but neither do you cover even a small percentage of what feminism actually represents.

The study i'm refering to wasn't even conducted in a feminist vein, it was originally implemented to understand how metaphors highlight certain information... to use your Feminists complaining about skyscrapers rockets...., i.e Feminism (forgive the lang) and Phalic Imagery contempt. And also how they hide information. In this case that Feminism has nothing to do with your long ago dismissed fruedian notions of penis envy.

Whats your say about minority groups tells me two things, 1- that you can't undestand the simple notion of subjective empathy. Your male you know that women get payed less, hold lower status positions, and must work harder than male counterparts, to attain these. Yet you question how simple gendered/categorical language makes a difference. WAKE UP, it does, it effects how people perceive each other, because it makes available categorys to place people into, if that has negative conoctations, then in a moral society that world drops from ussage, and powerfull tabooos come into place to ensure it remians there see nigger. Gendered language does this, master/slave is a little less strong of an argument, i agree, 2 - That you appreciate that things need to be run smoothly. In that case why make such a huge stink over somthing that, in all fairness shouldn't effect you... if you only understand master/slave in this one operationalisation, but I doubt very much you do. Unless you do understand all the points above but for some reason choose to ignore them. Your extreme case formulation does illustrate one good point, and that is that we need categories to communicate.

Re:Female/Male next?

[�nertia]

Sorry no offence intended, I was tyring to illustrate that dominant groups tend to underemphasise the plight of others. As for the white male comment, it's directly related to the Internet usages statistics survey, and in no ways is meant as a Jibe.

I am aware of the situation in Sudan, and most of these arguments have no relation to skin colour, and are equally valid for religion, creed, family affiliation. In fact any sort of perceived shared common fate.

Re:Female/Male next?

[Anonymous Coward]

Dumb is an Anagram of Numb

No it isn't. There's no N in dumb, dumbass.

Re:Female/Male next?

[argStyopa]

Actually, I very much like your development of my relatively half-baked comment.
I'm not sure that smart or numbed are precisely the best descriptors for these actors - the opposite of an idiot (ok, that's pejorative - say "irrational" instead) would be a rational person.
And in the "Princess and the Pea" sense, the opposite of hypersensitive would probably be "acclimated".

So yes, if we are trying to determine the validity of viewpoints in a social situation, I think it's irrefutable that we have to concede a greater weight to the opinions of the rational, acclimated individuals. As a simple matter of logic, a society cannot perform at the behest of the cacophany of voices of individuals - a society (and thus the self-determined rules thereof) MUST follow a path that most closely approximates the viewpoints of the majority (granted, the definition of rationality then becomes somewhat circular).

If you believe in a Darwinistic evolution of societies, cultures, and the actors within them, then it follows that the dominant actors WOULD BE those both rational enough to make 'reasonable' choices, who are also able to prioritize issues so that they don't spend 'warrantable outrage' on issues of relative insignificance...i.e. forbidding the use of master/slave in terms of computer hardware. (Neatly bringing this long digression back on topic.) ;)

Re:Female/Male next?

[Anonymous Coward]

Honey,

You're a girl who beleives in the paranormal.

Step back and understand that while you don't think it does, it makes your entire belief system suspect. You believe in things that *aren't there*.

Its like I tell my kids. If you're *that wrong* about one thing, isn't it possible you're just as wrong about another thing?

I don't mean that you're dumb, or can't think, its that your at an age where your hormones rules your head. You don't think clearly. You're book smart, but you're not old enough to have wisdom.

You're just wrong. See you in another 20 years when you get a little perspective on life and after you have a minivan full of kids to look after. You will change in ways that you don't fully appreciate. I'm not gloating, I'm simply stating facts here. Your value system is currently, how shall I put it, *young*. Call it into question. Often.

Re:Female/Male next?

[Zak3056]

The master slave argument is bound to elicit pretty strong feeling in many subgroups, just because the majority of readers on slashdot are white males, does not mean that everyone shares the same ambivilence or distance from such issues as apartheid and racism.

You might not believe this, but white males have been slaves, too.

I doubt calling an interface a trade center jack, because it contains 2 collapsable cicuits triggered, by a fast moving taliban controler, would receive the ambivilence that the master/slave connector does.

Now you've proven that you're nothing more than a troll.

Re:Female/Male next?

[Anonymous Coward]

AEnertia who do you think you are fooling hook nose Yid ? Or Hook nose yid trained pet puppet out on the prowl poking around ?

Franz Boas and egalitarian anthropology, Sigmund Freud and Freudian psychoanalysis, the "Frankfurt School," and New York City's liberal and neo-conservative intellectuals... it's all Jewish plot against the white majority. What you said about parsing physics for latent sexual content and other such nonsense is just furtherance of such plots...

The notion that a non-repressive civilization is impossible is a cornerstone of Freudian theory. However, his theory contains elements that break through this rationalization; they shatter the predominant tradition of Western thought and even suggest its reversal. His work is characterized by an uncompromising insistence on showing the repressive content of the highest values and achievements of culture. (Marcuse, 1974, p. 17)
Western culture has been placed on the couch, and the role of psychoanalysis is to help the patient adjust somewhat to a sick, psychopathology-inducing society: "While psychoanalytic theory recognizes that the sickness of the individual is ultimately caused and sustained by the sickness of his civilization, psychoanalytic therapy aims at curing the individual so that he can continue to function as part of a sick civilization without surrendering to it altogether" (Marcuse 1974, p. 245).
Freud appears to have been well aware that his conjectures were entirely speculative. Freud was "amused" when Totem and Taboo was termed a "just so" story by a British anthropologist in 1920, and stated only that his critic "was deficient in phantasy" (in Gay 1988, p. 327), apparently a concession that the work was indeed fanciful. Freud stated that "It would be nonsensical to strive for exactitude with this material, as it would be unreasonable to demand certainty" (quoted in Gay, 1988, p. 330). Similarly, Freud described Civilization and Its Discontents as "an essentially dilettantish foundation" on which "rises a thinly tapered analytic investigation" (quoted in Gay 1988, p. 543). And Freud was well aware that his attack on religion in The Future of an Illusion was scientifically weak, describing it by noting that "the analytic content of the work is very thin" (quoted in Gay 1988, 524).
Freud's countercultural writings scarcely exhaust the mischief wreaked by psychoanalysis. The works of Herbert Marcuse, Norman Brown, Wilhelm Reich, Jaques Lacan, Erich Fromm and a host of neo-Freudians come to mind immediately, but this barely scratches the surface. Psychoanalysis influenced thought in a wide range of areas, including sociology, child rearing, criminology, anthropology, literary criticism, art, literature, and the popular media such as TV and the movies to the point that, as Kurzweil (1989, p. 102) notes, "something like a culture of psychoanalysis was being established." E. F. Torrey (1992. p. 37) describes in some detail the spread of the movement in the United States, originally through the actions of a small group of activists with access to the popular media, the academic world, and the arts, to a pervasive influence in the 1950's. "It is a long road from a beachhead among New York intellectuals to a widespread influence in almost every phase of American life. Literature, drama, anthropology, sociology, child rearing, education, criminology, and many other parts of American thought and culture were to become permeated by Freud."
Given this association of psychoanalysis and the Left, it is not surprising that Crews' critique of psychoanalysis was itself analyzed and found to be as an attack on the Left: Eli Zaretsky (1994, p. 67) states such critiques "are continuous with the attack on the Left that began with the election of Richard Nixon in 1968. . . . They continue the repudiation of the revolutionary and utopian possibilities glimpsed in the 1960s."
Psychoanalysis was indeed an integral component of the countercultural movement of the 1960's and a central pillar of the intellectual zeitgeist of prominent count

Re:Female/Male next?

[TiggsPanther]

The master slave argument is bound to elicit pretty strong feeling in many subgroups, just because the majority of readers on slashdot are white males, does not mean that everyone shares the same ambivilence or distance from such issues as apartheid and racism.

Speaking as a "Non-white Male"[*], I happen to agree with the idea that the L.A. County thing is just "Political Correctness Run Wild" - and not a Good Thing.
Maybe they aren't the best terms. But they're the current terms, the standard (or "Standard") terms, and they are terms I find totally inoffensive in the context of computer components.

Now if someone called me a Slave because of my skin-colour, I'd be damn well offended. But I don't have a problem with the term being used when referred to the relationship between two hard-drives.

[*]
I'm actually half and half. Not exactly black, not exactly white. But the way I see it, my skin colour is "not exactly relevant". The only people who really make a big deal about it are racists and kids (too young to know better). To everyone else, it doesn't matter. I'm me, and that's all they really care about.

Tiggs

Re:Female/Male next?

[�nertia]

Hmmm... I don't believe in the paranormal. I did write an article all about the structure of individuals beleifs, and how to measure it tho if that's what your refering too?

how shall I put it, *young*. Call it into question. Often. I do, often =-).

BTW i'm a Guy not a girl. =-P, not that that matters in this context.

I appreciate your sentiments, but male/females are treated differerent, and language is setup to keep it that way. If industries wish to become trully Equal oportunity employeers. Then putting in place policys to rid itself of such language is just a natural progression.

Corrolary: Find me one University which does not have a High level policy about use of genderific terms of address. ...
Very few.

=-)

Re:Female/Male next?

[�nertia]

The problem here is that, those acclimated, rational individuals ... are making the choices. . (Social Dominance Theory is somewhat evolutionary, but then your line of thought suggests that this choice is reasonable (If we accept the above premises).

I agree this does seem stupid, and it should have been a much higer level standards decision.

Hmm I'm guessing your support for centralised state government... Would you also have that same government comprised of memebers using the same logic?... Why don't we just Elect Bush to head of the Council of UN then? All the other countries and peoples who oppose war MUST just be cacophanys of voices.

Re:Female/Male next?

[�nertia]

I agree. Here Context is the key. The problem is that being inside the technical circle we understand the differences in this context. Unfortunately not all groups can make this conection, therefore it's just a simple matter of politeness.

Would you use religious swear words in front of your 90 year old religous gran? It's not that you actually disrespect or mean it literally, but you respect your grannys views.

Same deal... It's really stupid at this level tho... Higher level standards is where it should be done

Re:Female/Male next?

[argStyopa]

"I'm guessing your support for centralised state government"

Interesting insight, since I'd deem myself exactly the opposite - I believe in very, very limited central government and much more power to the localities. In US terms, I'd far more favor the rights of states and localities over the federal government. Frankly, the slavery thing aside (morally a repugnant idea), I'd have agreed politically with the South in the Confederacy.

In present terms, I think even the concept of the UN is completely absurd.

Not to go too far into abstracts, but I'm more of a rational individualist - philosophically, I sit somewhere in the space between Kant and Hobbes. Thus my focus on the 'rational'.

I'll have to read more of your references on Social Dominance theory, I'd be very interested to see how that reconciles with Leviathan. Thanks!

Re:Female/Male next?

[�nertia]

You should also read about Realistic Conflict theory and Social Identity theory. (Tajfel and Turner, 1979) They are directly related.
Cheers.

Re:Female/Male next?

[�nertia]

Hmm, I'm not sure that it's a troll. There is a valid argument hidding under that bridge. It was to demonstrate the relevance. I'm sorry if I offended anyone.

Re:Female/Male next?

[vsync64]

Beleive it or not but use of gendered language is actually quite influencial on how we perceive attributes and sterotypes of technology to be. Quite alot of people have commented on the use of blatant sexual metaphors in egineering sciences, this is an old issue.

Whatever. The Sapir-Whorf hypothesis has been largely discredited by now. The original research was fatally flawed, and it should be obvious that the Inuit, for example, likely specialized to the extent that they did about snow because they deal with it so much. Any group, especially a group focused on a technical discipline, will develop the needed terminology to get the job done.

As far as sexual metaphors go, the physical similarities are obvious, and I think the metalepsis is unavoidable. I don't see applicable sexual metaphors as offensive, myself. It's one of the basic facts about our biology and that of many other living things. I am bemused by the fact that many times it is those who assert the need for acceptance of and harmony with nature who are the very ones that complain about such terminology.

I wonder what you think about the fact that in the case of USB, for example, typically it is the cable which has male connectors on both ends, while the devices with female connectors merely use the cable (and by extension, the "male") to get the real work done, an exact role-reversal of the stereotype I assuming you are complaining about.

Engineers get their jobs done by making analogies, by figuring out ways to reuse components, and in the case of computers, often by literally inventing their own languages. Is such sapience only allowed when referring entirely to abstract and artificial constructs? Mnemonic devices are often endorsed by teachers and other authority figures; are they to be banned when one turns out to offend some random prude by its similarity to an unavoidable fact of anatomy? If this trend continues, any technical document will necessarily become a pleonastic mess.

I doubt calling an interface a trade center jack, because it contains 2 collapsable cicuits triggered, by a fast moving taliban controler, would receive the ambivilence that the master/slave connector does.

You are describing a specific event. The master-slave relationship is a concept which can apply equally to many situations. As many have pointed out, the Platonic universal of a master-slave relationship inheres perfectly in the IDE interface.

Really, this is the main problem with the proposal that we should sanitize language. Those who would be the sanitizers often suffer from a sort of ideological egotism, assuming that every term in every discipline refers to their own individual pet issues. Sorry, but they don't. Not always.

The master slave argument is bound to elicit pretty strong feeling in many subgroups, just because the majority of readers on slashdot are white males, does not mean that everyone shares the same ambivilence or distance from such issues as apartheid and racism.

I think that if you are concerned about societal effects, you would do well to concern yourself with the metonymy that children derive from existing social order at a very young age. Fix the division of labor and the social stereotypes will fix themselves. Whitewash America's tombs and they will still stink, and the odor will be represented in speech no matter how many circumlocutions are necessary (e.g., many express schadenfreude without ever knowing the word).

Re:Female/Male next?

[�nertia]

Whatever. The Sapir-Whorf hypothesis has been largely discredited by now

I wan't even talking about linguistic relativity. I was talking about about social construction. In fact if you do some more research into the whole struclist/creationalist/post-structuralist debate, you will find that post-structuralim is the dominant theory now, and it inherits the creationist notion. It's not that the use of the language creates the reality(Sapir-whorf) it that language changes depending on it's representation. It's just about being polite. (I doub't you curse blaphemes in front of your religious granny, so why shouldn't the same appreciation of others interpretation apply to the engineering sciences, I doubt you would openly use the term master/slave in front of someone you know who has been directly effected by the practice. )

I am arguing that standards bodies should take into account that the terms they are using may at some point propagate into contexts where the "other" meaning of these terms is the more dominant. This argument has more to do with sausaure and foucault than it ever did with whorf.

Besides, how difficult is it to use a term without mutliple meanings to describe these simple relationships. I agree the M/F does appeal to conrete notions and understandings inherint in most peoples experiential knowledge. But so does in/out, as for Master/slave it's not as a powerfull problem, but the fact that it has arised does say somthing.

I think what this law is actually trying to do is make standards organisations consider implications language choices may have down the line. I don't think doing this at this level is effective tho, and Banning never works, they should be perhaps Publishing guidelines about naming conventions, but banning, NO.

Re:Female/Male next?

[Zeio]

This PC garbage is going to kill us all. The world is not fair. Trying to use intellect to proscribe proper interfaces to the world makes you a totalitarian. I don't want you to tell me how to speak. I don't want to tell YOU either. And if you don't want to hear me, never talk to me again. In fact, if you taught your kids a banana was a "penis fruit" or some such, I don't care.
A lot of this word-influence research was done by people who rely on there being evidence of effects or they have no purpose in life. I think of it all as a fart gas study. If you constantly farted on someone in their formative years, they would grow up fart-traumatized. Now farting must be banned and farters should be fired from work and imprisoned.

I don't care about words. I use profanity from time to time and think those who have the time to think about the words used rather than the idea conveyed are complete idiots. MASTER/SLAVE. Master does not mean, massah, crack da whip. It means the primary/controller/the in-control entity. Slave doesn't mean, I so sorry massah, please don't beat me. It means that slave listens to the master. If you think that's offensive, then you would be a moron that can't think abstractly or needs to hit a dictionary and find that there are more meanings to a word.

Try and find the Bugs Bunny when he painted himself in black-face and sang old Kentucky home in from of Yosemite Sam. Banned by the thought police. Or Tom's [of Tom and Jerry] fat master, who chased him around the house with the rolling pin. Thought police. Speedy Gonzalez (a number of people in the "Spanish community" miss Speedy, but the thought police have already thought for them). Thought police. Sensitivity training, mail-person vs mailman, person-hole vs. man whole. Anyone who thinks about this or pays credence to it is a fucking idiot that contributes nothing to the world. Get over it, and get on with life.

But you can be Farrakhan and preach all this hateful trash and the thought police can't touch you, that hate mongering is protected. Or you can dunk a Christian cross in urine and call it art, even though this pisses a lot of people off that's protected. But if some gender bent loon tune lady with a beard in a restaurant gets referred to with the wrong pronoun, that's a civil rights suit. You, and I really don't care about transgendered. In fact, I want to hate them now that I have to be "PC" to them. Forcing people to like/respect others is an unnatural act.

The weak always look for ways to create sympathy. They live in a world that is so malleable and open, you can do anything or be anyone. But these small minded retards who like to think for others and cleanse their evil thoughts who can make nothing of themselves doing something useful find a job in making intelligent people's lives more difficult. I ignore these pricks. When duty calls, a big asteroid or comet, a super volcano, a pandemic, a super tsunami, or war against something that threatens our existence, their stupid crap will fall by the wayside and the true leaders can get down to business.

We are being weakened by these people. They don't make the weak-victims they think for any smarter, just more dependent on their "PC" racketeering lead by those like Fake-Reverend Jesse Extortion Jackson and others like him.

Your group-thinking politically correct trash is wholeheartedly rejected by me. I reject it and ignore it and think the whole thing is a ridiculous scam and you weaken the weak and those who are thinking for them are really evil people who get into power by using these ridiculous grievances as fuel for their fires. Every court case, every name change, every time PC wins, the collective intelligence goes down. It takes hundreds of useful people to create what one PC retard in court can undo.

Now I'm going to go laugh my ass off at Blazing Saddles. And while the humor may not be politically correct, its fucking funny. And I have nothing against no one, but I can still have a great time watching a film that parodies ster

Re:Female/Male next?

[�nertia]

I'm not talking about sanatizing speech in the public arena, tho i'm talking about doing it at a standards level. I think my example of the world trade center is equally applicable because of media coverage it's instantly accessible, theirfore it's a pretty good source domain to understand somthing else. Just like the concrete notions of reproduction. (For a great analysis on Metaphors for Conceptions and Reproduction Read, Wagner, Et al, 1995, European Journal of Social Psyc).

The Impact on society comes from the clash of these representations tho. When one group dosn't understand or confusing the others representation. Which is exactly whats going on here.

Genderifics, are the same. One groups representation diverges from another and we have conflict. This is a reason for neutral terms which is often overlooked, in favour of the more salient argument you present.

Re:Female/Male next?

[vsync64]

doub't

Honestly. Where'd that one come from?

Re:Female/Male next?

[Dhalka226]

Beleive it or not but use of gendered language is actually quite influencial on how we perceive attributes and sterotypes of technology to be.

I know this is slightly on tangent to your point about technology, but I think it may be worth mentioning.

I'm currently a computer science student at Illinois State University. Naturally I have to plug away at a bunch of stupid "general education" requirements first. So to pass the boredom with what I hoped was an interesting class, I picked Psychology.

It hasn't disappointed. Lots of interesting factoids. However, the one that applies here is one that particularly bothered me: There is a theory (perhaps that is the wrong word) that any negative term, no matter how apt or appropriate, will be turned into an insult and be inappropriate in a time after.

For instance, the word "retard" was originally the politically correct term for somebody with seriously low IQ and the problems that go with it. It's actually quite mild, really. "Retard" means "a slowing down or hindering of progress; a delay." And while it is patently untrue the connotation to the word was that the individual was simply delayed and that one day they would spring forward and be normal.

Today, if I called somebody afflicted by the exact same conditions (same IQ, same deficiencies, everything) a "retard" I would have people all over my ass about it. Now it is "developmentally disabled" or whatever else we can throw into the pot. In fact there are some pockets now that don't even like the word "disabled." "Differently abled" is cropping up. It's come to the point where the words are so diluted that it's going to require a PhD to figure out what was REALLY intended. "Developmentally differently abled." Please!

Let's just draw the line already. Our language isn't perfect. We're human beings: we're fallible, for one, and we're also highly likely to be offended by things even when they are not meant to offend. Rather than bitching and moaning about every term any group can twist to be insulting or demeaning, can't we simply view the intent of the statement? A master/slave hard drive configuration isn't racist, it isn't pro-slavery, and people who think it is are overreacting.

If people would be reasonable, problems like these wouldn't exist. Pick your fights, people! These fights aren't worth it. Even if one gets one's way on issues like this, it will only make the NEXT fight--hopefully a much more important one--much harder to get past all the people who are still pissed about the current one.

Re:Female/Male next?

[�nertia]

I agree with you mostly. As for your theory... It sounds circular. These words become bad because of the association they gain over time. It's not that the words bad it's that the people use the word in a bad way,(To differntiate to the point of discrimination) thus the simple words social representation becomes linked to discriminatory practices.

It just makes sense to think about the choice of words, so that you don't pick somthing which already has a context where it's representation isn't good. It's just being polite. I agree that it's stupid to censor at a public level, and this side of me says... Stupid american fuck ups... But the academic side of me goes... Hmm, in theorys that's a good guideline for naming conventions, don't use words which have other contextual meanings... It's that simple. It would have taken 5 seconds for the people who developed the terminology Male/Female as an industry standard to insteed use in/out...

Re:Female/Male next?

[Dhalka226]

As for your theory... It sounds circular.

Well, let me first clarify it wasn't my theory, it was my professors.

But yes, it's circular. And the unfortunate reality of that means that just about any "politically correct" term will not stay politically correct long. So where can one draw the line to say, "okay, we've tried our best here, enough is enough?"

Hmm, in theorys that's a good guideline for naming conventions, don't use words which have other contextual meanings

It's a wonderful practice but I don't think it's practical. Even innocuous words can become insults and then what? Do we change the terminology again? For instance, look at some of our current "swear words." "Bastard" literally means a child born out of wedlock. We don't ever hear that used that way anymore; it is been relegated to purely an insult. Even more harmless, how about "gay?" It used to mean happy, but nobody uses it that way anymore. Now it is a reference to sexuality and receives giggles from school children when they read it in older books. It doesn't much matter whether the word is twisted into an insult or if it is adopted as a prefered adjective because the effect is essentially the same: The word is no longer acceptable in the contexts in which it originated.

I would also be more supportive of efforts to do it right the first time; ie, as you stated, to have made the terminology "in/out" or some other variation rather than "male/female." I object more strenuously to having it made "male/female," be that way with no issues for years, and suddenly arise as some sort of a problem. (Actually I don't really consider "male/female" a problem at all since there are both male and female counterparts. Seems like it's both a fair and apt term, but I understand your point about engendered speech in general.)

I also don't agree that it is necessarily all that simple to avoid contextual meanings even when they are "stable" and not going to change on you in a year or two. As an example, I don't know how old you are, but take an average 30+ year old parent, sit them in a room with a kid who is talking the way he would to his friends, and I bet they wouldn't have a clue what the kid was saying half of the time. I don't know half the slang being used by my own generation. If in 10 years I'm sitting on some committee someplace trying to come up with a name for something, I don't think it would be reasonable of people to expect me to 1) know all the different contexts--especially across different cultures--of a term I may choose, or to 2) invest the resources to figure them out.

An example of the latter, once again from my psych class: A good part of the lectures we get tend to involve differences between certain groups. Obviously, two groups that tend to come up a lot, for fairly obvious reasons, are race and gender. More specifically, white/black and male/female distinctions (seems a bit insensitive to other minority groups, eh?). Anyway, during the course of any given lecture, the professor probably spends an average of about five minutes per day disclaiming himself by inserting terms like "you may not agree, but that is the evidence" or "it's not true in all cases, but that's the general situation." In short, he spends five minutes a day being politically correct, ensuring, as best he can, not to offend anybody even with research that may itself be offensive. It's a noble gesture, especially in the classroom, but let's take it on a grander scale. Five minutes per class. I have two classes per week, about 20 weeks in a semester. So, 10 minutes a week, 20 weeks = 200 minutes of time spent in the course of a semester disclaiming research statistics and conclusions. Our class periods are 75 minutes twice per week, meaning over the course of a semester, almost three classes are wasted in disclaimers. And while I'm not bitter about it, I would understand a student who might thinking to him/herself, "what the hell? I'm paying money for this guy to avoid

Re:Female/Male next?

[Anonymous Coward]

How dare you use the word "seminal," you phallogocentric, patriarchal so-and-so?

Re:Female/Male next?

[Anonymous Coward]

MOD THIS UP

Re:Female/Male next?

[�nertia]

So you are agreeing with my argument lines then? =-P . Obviously the representation of this word even you can understand as offensive to some. So if this is the case, probably not a good choice. You obviously are aware of it. Good, that's all i'm saying here, you would make a good person to write formal documentation/produce standards, because you are aware of the conflicting representations of the word, and probably not select it in favour of maybe, principle for instance.

But your in support of the law because your applying it to publicly it to normal conversation, i.e censorship of public language.

That ain't what i'm saying....

Re:Female/Male next?

[�nertia]

Right... I agree, too much time and effort is spent trying to enforce censorship on public and artistic works, it's lame and stupid, not to mention immoral.

What i'm saying you sum up here
Even naming guidelines are ridiculous. If someone who invents a new item wants to call it the pussy-cunt device, fine. Don't buy it. Guidelines create a stigma where none need exist. Invent something more useful and call it something "nice."
Your representation of pussy-cunt ain't good, your probably wouldn't be happy if somthing using the pussy-cunt terminology (even if in some other feild it meant somthing different) was to become something you had to use in your life.

Now master/slave is the same, for most people it's a harmless technical term. But because IT pretty much is ibiquious now, (as apposed to 10 years ago), it's only a matter o time before someone (who might have been a slave) get's exposued to this terminology (be it through work/ learning about pc's). It's not that we should try and change or censor these things, it's about educating people on the differences.

I don't want to bite on the N-word, but the arguments are simular here.

Re:Female/Male next?

[vsync64]

Now master/slave is the same, for most people it's a harmless technical term. But because IT pretty much is ibiquious now, (as apposed to 10 years ago), it's only a matter o time before someone (who might have been a slave) get's exposued to this terminology (be it through work/ learning about pc's). It's not that we should try and change or censor these things, it's about educating people on the differences.

You seem to be proposing a singularly one-sided type of "education". What's wrong with the idea that a former slave learning about PCs should be educated that the terminology is technically correct and not an endorsement of any social system?

Re:Female/Male next?

[�nertia]

that's the differences part... =-P I thought it was obvious that it had to be both ways....

Re:Female/Male next?

[Death_Angel]

I have followed this whole argument and for the most part you, AEnertia, cannot write and you distract from your own message. Zeio and vsync64 have great points on the whole subject. I agree wholeheartedly with both.

Being a woman, I see no problem with any of the terms used in technology. I think you just suffer from being a loser who is failing at life and education. Please take a spelling class before ever posting again.

Re:Female/Male next?

[�nertia]

Guilty on both counts of being mostly illiterate without a spell checker. =-).

You can't use an inocluation of gender to lend weight to this arguement. It matters just as little(much) as any other label in terms of applicability. Have I ever said that these terms are offensive? No I have mearly said that at some point individuals who see them as offensive may come in contact with them. And from that argued for at least an awareness of Major cultural/group differences in these interpretation at the STANDARDS level

Your attack personal characteristics without even knowing anything about me. If you actually had anything to contribute you should structure it around the points, which you disagree with, and those others you do agree with. (If you can managedto interpret anything from my messy spelling)

I would like to hear your arguments why those points Zeio/vsync64 brought up appeal to you more. Hopefully it's not just because their punctuation etc is better.

Kind regards

Re:Female/Male next?

[Anonymous Coward]

Although the first paragraph was at least reasonable, and a subject, of which I wish to learn more, the second is quite frankly, bullshit.
Not that the majority of /. readers aren't white males, but that an inherent sexism/racism exists in our terminologies. On the other hand, I see it as simple reactions on terms which are becoming "loaded."

I see no reason why anyone is that hypersensitive. A neighbor of mine breeds Rottweilers. Should I say that she's sexist for referring to the females as "bitches," when its existed as a term for canines far longer than a slur against women?

And should I go apeshit on a tobacconist selling "fags" next time I'm in the UK?

This madness has to stop somewhere.

Alternative?

[Dimwit]

AsksPolitelyDrive / HappyWorkerDrive?

PresidentDrive / VicePresidentDrive?

KingDrive/ViceroyDrive?

(My favorite...)
WillyWonkaDrive / OompaLoompaDrive?

There's the obvious "Parent/Child" possibility, but since the actual standard uses the terms "Master/Slave", I really think this is overreaction on the county's part...

Re:Alternative?

[tigertiger]

There's the obvious "Parent/Child" possibility,

Gee, is "parent/child" still politically correct? I thought it would be something like "generator/generated in a genetically-challenged relationship" or so...

In fact, I think they should require the disks to take turns in their positions. That would only be fair.

Re:Alternative?

[technos]

Parent/Child nomenclature was already taken before IDE/ATA was thought up. Child processes? Child nodes?

Re:Alternative?

[NtroP]

There's the obvious "Parent/Child" possibility

Using "Parent/Child" would indicate that a "parent" is exercising direct control over the "child". This will definitely not do. Children are unique, individual little people and must be free to choose their own path and discover their own inner potential!

If we are going to be PC we have to go all the way :-)

I say, refuse to sell them drives until the "whiner" is identified and held up to public ridicule. That goes for the bleeding-heart bureaucrat who took this whiner seriously instead of telling them to "grow-the-hell-up!"

Re:Alternative?

[mcpkaaos]

There's the obvious "Parent/Child" possibility

No, that would never fly in Santa Barbara County.

Re:Alternative?

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you a java coder by any chance?

Re:Alternative?

[ldj]

There's the obvious "Parent/Child" possibility, ...

Hmmm, dunno. Programmers have been advocating the killing of children by their parents (processes) for quite a few years now! How would our esteemed legislators look upon this practice?

Re:Alternative?

[el-spectre]

Speaking of which... What's up with this whole motherboard/daughterboard thing?

No Daddyboards? Nephewcards? As part of the largest minority in the world (that is, men), I am offended.

If only I had the ability to pass dumbass policies...

Re: Alternative?

[Black Parrot]

> PresidentDrive / VicePresidentDrive?

Yeah, but which is the master and which the slave?

Better would be "president/intern".

We could use that to PCify the terms for the cable connectors too.

Re:Alternative?

[pegr]

In keeping with standard PC terms:
It's the Enabler/Dependant
It's up to you to figure out which is the master and which is the slave!

Re:Alternative?

[Anonymous Coward]

marthter / thlave

Re:Alternative?

[ronabop]

I suggest you investigate the earlier versions of the Oompa Loompas, before they were made a more politically correct green.
Seriously.
http://www.roalddahlfans.com/books/charoompa.php

Re:Alternative?

[Anonymous Coward]

Parent/Child won't work because of the sensitive child abuse issues facing todays society.

Re:Alternative?

[Anonymous Coward]

How about Michael/Gavin?

Re:Alternative?

[Infinity Salad]

Actually, for today's climate in America, try: Jesus/flock or flag/citizen

Re:Alternative?

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you kidding? You should have seen my co-worker's face when his computer told him it was killing child processes.

Re:Alternative?

[4bz]

Drive / Son of Drive?

Re:Alternative?

[mummers]

Drive / Son of Drive?

I haven't got a son you insensitive clod.

Re:Alternative?

[gnu-generation-one]

"In fact, I think they should require the disks to take turns in their positions. That would only be fair."

Great, all I needed was a switch hard-drive, as if the software running on it wasn't indecisive enough. Does striped RAID count?

Re:Alternative?

[kinbote]

PresidentDrive / VicePresidentDrive?

Sorry, this is obsolete.

These days the Vice President sets the policy, and the President unquestioningly carries it out.

free the hard drives!

[endx7]

Are we gonna have a "Free The Hard Drive March" now?

Florida Rejoices

[Anonymous Coward]

At least we're not the stupidest state any longer. (Yeah, i know LA County isn't a state.)

Re:Florida Rejoices

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong, you can't count and the nation pays, no one will ever forget.

Hey....

[ambienceman]

What about cable select?

Re:Hey....

[Anonymous Coward]

I am always amazed that my master/slave drive setup works. Once, when I was bored, I installed Arachne 1.70 on a slave hdd, and booted it there. Please don't confuse me when I am on a roll, by renaming these drives. I am considering trying to get Grey Cat Linux 3.0 to run off a lexar 256 mb usb flash drive, and wonder what will happen when Windows 98, that has the lexar driver, passes off to GCL. One can easily have GCL on a Slave HDD, but on lexar's, I am not certain. I also imagine running GCL off a CDRW (or for that matter, a CDRO) that is running in a backpack, hooked to the parallel port. Off Windows 98, of course. I think I'll install from the GCL installer files on the same CDRW, and see what happens. Kinda like a Knoppix live cd, I suppose. See, don't confuse me while I am on a creative streak, by changing the names of the drives out from under me.

Re:Hey....

[jx100]

I believe that's called "gender reassignment surgery" now

Re:Hey....

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL, Rock ON! Brother!

Re:Hey....

[jonadab]

> What about cable select?

Cable select is a major pain, because it limits where in the case you can put
each drive. If e.g. you want to put your ATAPI CD-ROM drive in the bottom bay
for reasons that have to do with the physical positioning of your case, and
your hard drive needs one of those full-bay cooler/mounting kit combos, Cable
Select makes it virtually impossible to get the cable to reach everything,
assuming you don't want your CD-ROM drive to be the primary master. It's much
easier to jumper the drives and plug the cable in the way that it can reach
most easily.

That said, Cable Select does have its usefulness. Sometimes you want to be
able to switch the order of the drives without rejumpering them, especially
when you're moving a drive back and forth between two systems. But until
SATA takes over entirely you still need the option of jumpering your drives
for Master and Slave.

The author of the memo is clearly an ignoramus unqualified to discuss
the subject. To wit:

> One such recent example included the manufacturer's labeling of equipment
> where the words "Master/Slave" appeared to identify the primary and
> secondary sources.

Err, no. Master and Slave do *not* refer to Primary and Secondary. They
refer to Master and Slave. The Primary and Secondary channels can each
have both a Master and a Slave, as anyone who has even the smallest amount
of knowledge of the subject would not only know, but take for granted.
The author of the memo is entirely out of his depth and should refrain
from sending memos of any kind to suppliers of technical equipment, lest
he inadvertently order something he didn't intend that will cost the county
a lot of money and get him fired. He probably thinks RAID terminology is
insensitive to Scandinavians because of its resemblance to Viking activities.

Re:Hey....

[Anonymous Coward]

Cable select is a major pain

Only if you've got a frankenputer..

In machines that are well designed, cable select works amazingly well, because the case is engineered properly.

Try working on some Tier-1 machines (real Tier-1, not this 'they sold lots, so they're tier-1' garbage) and maybe you'll see.

Re:Hey....

[jonadab]

> > Cable select is a major pain
> Only if you've got a frankenputer..
> Try working on some Tier-1 machines

By Tier-1, I guess you mean big-name, like Compaq and Dell? I do work with
them, at work. I hate them. (Well, Dell's cases are good, but I'm not buying
a whole computer just for the case, when I'm going to have to replace most of
the components.) Whitebox systems have, generally, much more reliable
components and are also more likely to work with any random operating system.
Further, with the big-name systems you don't usually get proper driver disks,
just an All-Or-Nothing "Restore CD", which is worthless if you don't want to
delete all your data and a big pain even if you don't need your data. Ugh.
(Dell is the exception here again; they actually send you a Drivers & Utilities
CD. I'm starting to like them, for situations where I absolutely have to pick
a big name.)

Additionally, big-name computers invariably come with one CD drive and one
hard drive; that's nowhere near enough. Usually they only have two IDE
channels, so you can only have four drives total, and that's absolutely not
enough. (I'm a multibooter; even with only one CD drive, that would be only
3*4=12 primary partitions, which is inadequate.)

hrmm so

[digitalsushi]

one of these days, prison is where all the thinking people are going to end up and run the outside world from. and our prison utoptia will be the land of guarded walls and milk and honey and high speed internet, and we'll all hang out all day reading books and surfing the web and writing more laws to keep us safer from the outside, while they slave away paying to keep us incarcerated, blissfully unawares of their own capture, as the walls grow outwards and the outside becomes the inside. and our uniforms will regress to suits and the the mobius strip will turn once again. btw im drunk

Re:hrmm so

[thetaikung]

well, I'm high and you just caused my friend to run out of the room screaming after I read your post to him 3 times slowly.

What they should call them

[wed128]

i'm thinking employer and assistant, or, thing 1 and thing 2

I don't know any other way to say this

[schild]

This is the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard. This is exactly why I'm opposed to political correctness. /schild

Request or require?

[noname3]

"L.A. County Bans use of Master/Slave Term. ...
LA County now requires that vendors working with the county remove all 'master/slave' references."

Contrast this to the snopes article, which says: The County of Los Angeles has requested that equipment vendors avoid using the industry term "Master/Slave" in product descriptions and labelling.

There's a big difference between request and require. And banned? Hardly. I doubt anyone's going to get fined or sued over this.

Re:Request or require?

[Bombcar]

Yeah, but it's like the Mob requesting that you pay your debts.... If the vendor doesn't stop using the master/slave terminology, then they'll use a different vender.

I'd not be suprized if this eventually killed the terms even on pricewatch......

Master/Slave should be phased out

[Waffle Iron]

Master/Slave should be phased out. Edge-triggered logic is more modern and robust.

Help Help I am being repressed!

[Herkum01]

All I can say is thank god! Now we will have liberated hardware able to do its own thing. Write when it wants to write, read when it wants to read and just in general do whatever it likes, regardless of what it was supposed to do.

Much like Windows.

Re:Help Help I am being repressed!

[codermotor]

"Write when it wants to write, read when it wants to read..."

Sorry, but you can't use the terms "write" or "read" either, as those are not literacy-neutral words. In fact, it would be better not to use any language other than Esperanto or Klingon from now on.

ENOUGH OF THIS!

[SLASHAttitude]

I HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF THIS CRAP!!!! (felt like I was on A O hell there for second) I can not believe how far political correctness has gone in this country. What next a ban on using the terms male/female?

Not "banned"

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently neither the submitter nor the editors RTFA. (Surprise, surprise.)

They sent a letter requesting that the terms be changed. They did not, in fact, "ban" the use of the terms master and slave.

Quite a bit better IMHO, although still too PC-obsessive...

G'dammit!

[Otter]

2003-11-21 21:06:11 LA County bars "Master/Slave" labels on ha (articles,humor) (rejected)

Geez, first I get this story rejected last week. Then I have to reject so many cookies from snopes.com that I miss getting first post when it does appear. Then some new spyware the IT fuckwits installed on my work desktop slows the system to a crawl again and I have to switch to my laptop just to whine!

Re:G'dammit!

[BrookHarty]

Its been happening alot lately. Lots of news being submitted and not making its way to a post. Maybe Slashdot has become too mainstream. ;)

Re:G'dammit!

[DA-MAN]

no, the pc term for mainstream is sold out!

Oops, no wait...aww damnit my head hurts.

Re:G'dammit!

[SeanAhern]

I've given up submitting stories to Slashdot. After too many rejections of stories that really should have been accepted, (Honestly, about 2/3 of mine should have been rejected, but not all of them) I have just decided not to play the game any more.

Their bread and butter comes from people who submit stories to them. If they can't get submissions straight, I'm done. No more from me.

Yes, I'm bitching and whining, too.

Why discriminatory?

[slavemowgli]

I still fail to see what actually is discriminatory about the terms "Master" and "slave".

Re:Why discriminatory?

[psychogentoo]

I remember seeing a news story a while ago regarding Snapple iced tea.

Some people thought that the 'K' on the bottle stood for "KKK". The 'K' was for Kosher. They also thought that the Boston tea party depicted on the bottle was of a picture of slaves being traded.

People read into things too much.

Ignorance breeds hatred but reciprocating ignorance breeds "political correctness".

Re:Why discriminatory?

[slavemowgli]

*nods* Indeed. Similar to the iced tea issue, BTW, I have heard, in the past, people worrying that connections between the KKK and KDE might be drawn - which is, of course, entirely silly. Political correctness is a good thing, IMO, but it should only be applied in situations where something actually is offensive. Banning the use of the terms "Master" and "slave" for hard drives etc. is not political correctness, it's stupidity.

How about Government/Taxpayer?

[Chuck Chunder]

Seems like an appropriate alternative.

Re:How about Government/Taxpayer?

[Anonymous Coward]

Excuse me.

The above post absolutely was not off topic. The topic is not being allowed to call IDE drives "master" and "slave". The above poster commented that perhaps they could be relabeled as "Government" and "Taxpayer".

The comment may not rate a +5 insightful, but it certainly is not 'offtopic'. Nor is this one, since it discusses the topic at hand, and a post regarding the topic at hand.

Thank you for your time.

Re:How about Government/Taxpayer?

[panck]

Here in Cali, it would be Governator/Taxpayer

Re:How about Government/Taxpayer?

[TopShelf]

Pimp/Bitch, Government/Taxpayer...

what's the difference? I could totally see W tricking out the presidential limo and getting himself decked out in full-length fur coats!

L.A. County Bans Use Of "Master/Slave" Term

[pipingguy]

snopes usually provides references. For this one there are none. Ever heard of The Repository of Lost Legends?

Re:L.A. County Bans Use Of "Master/Slave" Term

[Fjord]

They stated in the article that they received memos and called the department. They didn't use any externally linkable resources.

Regardless, though, from the URL, you can see it's part of the Moral Outrage subsection of the Inboxer Rebellion section, and not part of T.R.O.L.L.

But is their money where their mouth is?

[Phredd]

Will L.A. County officials put their money where their mouths are and buy all new equipment to replace any that uses this offensive terminology? Or are they too niggardly?

Re:But is their money where their mouth is?

[geekoid]

"Or are they too niggardly?"

I get it, and it was funny.

Re:But is their money where their mouth is?

[gladed]

Worse than that: they'll force others to follow the same hypocritical standards! Niggardly pedagogues!

Re:But is their money where their mouth is?

[Anonymous Coward]

For those that don't know, the word niggardly was used by a white aid in Washington, DC. He was, if I recall correctly, an aid to the city's mayor and was using the word properly to describe some financial/account matters.

When he used it, the entire group at the other side of the table (said to be predominately or all black, but that might be hogwash) got up and left the meeting.

The word was objected to, mainly due to the stupid belief that the aid was insulting said parties or the mayor himself, because niggardly sound like nigger. The hoopla led to the aid resigning (translation--he was forced out). The mayor accepted the resignation. However, the resulting flap from that hit national scale, at which point the pressure was on the mayor. The ex-aid was rehired a bit later.

Niggardly has next to nothing to do with the word nigger.

Politics at work.

Re:But is their money where their mouth is?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice, real nice. Winding up the morons yet again who don't realize the difference between niggardly and the N-word.

Re:But is their money where their mouth is?

[Anonymous Coward]

Look who didn't read the article... (this was all explained there)

Re:But is their money where their mouth is?

[Hettch]

The realy 'funny' part about the word niggardly, is that a mayor's aid in Washington used it and then later was forced to resign because it was thought he used a racial slur. Search for "niggardly".

Resiging due to the ignorance of others. Thats a sad, sad state of society.

Re:But is their money where their mouth is?

[ifwm]

Awesome. That was fucking awesome.

Re:But is their money where their mouth is?

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, that's obviously what he meant when he said he 'got it'.

Re:But is their money where their mouth is?

[ifwm]

What N-word are you referring to? Numbnuts? Nincompoop? There are lots of N-words? Please clarify.

Re:But is their money where their mouth is?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hope they don't use MasterCard.

Re:But is their money where their mouth is?

[tarp]

Sure showed the idiocy of those people who got up and left.

Real good example for the black race!

I picture a manual burning

[t0qer]

Big bonfire of motherboard, and IDE drive manuals being burned to summon the spirits of James Dean Marilyn Monroe, and Elvis.

This is indeed worrisome

[Alaska Jack]

I hope the master/slave devices weren't coupled together with male/female connectors.

Replacement for Master/Slave

[Lead Butthead]

"Butthead and Stupid Follower"

Re:Replacement for Master/Slave

[DA-MAN]

While we are at it, let's replace male/female connectors with cock/cunt connectors!

Ooh and don't forget wap's, let's rename those before the Italians start complaining too.

I can't believe how mentally handicapped this p.c. bullshit gets!

Oh yeah?

[achurch]

Well, I ban the word "County" because "Count" is a title in an archaic nobility system that has no place in modern American culture. Take that, L.A. *****y!

Re:Oh yeah?

[Anonymous Coward]

better ban the word country too because it sounds like cuntry.

Re:Oh yeah?

[zulux]

Well, I ban the word "County" because "Count" is a title in an archaic nobility system that has no place in modern American culture. Take that, L.A. *****y!

Here is Washington state - there was a movement to ban "Chief" (as in Chief of Staff) because it could offend the 'Native Americans.'

The Indians that I work for could care less - 'Chief' is a French word related to chef.

The only people who cared were the smarmy pussy-whipped white males that were trying to be sensitive in order to impress their sickly PC friends.

Re:Oh yeah?

[Restil]

Yes, it would be more appropriate to call it a Shire. A County is historically a geographical area under jurisdiction of a count, which clearly we don't have any of in the US, but a shire is under jurisdiction of a sheriff, which makes more sense.
So while they're getting up in arms over the whole master/slave issue, someone might want to let them in on it. LA Shire might not sound as good as LA County, but we're trying to be policially correct here.

-Restil

Re:Oh yeah?

[TKinias]

scripsit achurch:

Well, I ban the word "County" because "Count" is a title in an archaic nobility system that has no place in modern American culture. Take that, L.A. *****y!

Given your nick, this might not bother you too much, but the other LA (Louisiana, that is) still calls them `parishes'. At least counties are secular.

Let's just call them departements, shall we? ;)

(@#$& crapfilter keeps stripping out my acute accent...)

Re:Oh yeah?

[RodgerDodger]

You should drop the 'y' too... A county is the region controlled by a count or earl.

Re:Oh yeah?

[yuri benjamin]

Given your nick, this might not bother you too much, but the other LA (Louisiana, that is) still calls them `parishes'. At least counties are secular.

Parish was originally a secular word too. It simply means neighbourhood from the greek para beside and oikos house.

Re:Oh yeah?

[TKinias]

scripsit yuri benjamin:

Parish was originally a secular word too. It simply means neighbourhood from the greek para beside and oikos house.

Indeed. As is `pope' (from Greek `papas', meaning `daddy'); I would not recommend using it as a title for a state official, though. I think it more likely that the Louisianans had the Catholic meaning of the word in mind, rather than any literal, classical Greek sense.

Regardless, my comment was not meant to be taken too seriously... no more seriously than suggesting we should abolish the word `county' because it suggests feudal government.

Re:Oh yeah?

[Anonymous Coward]

When George Bush met the Queen this week, he said: "I like how England is referred to as a kingdom, and thought of calling the US the same."
"I regret to inform you that you cannot", said the Queen. "In order to be a kingdom, you must be a king. And you, sir, are no king."
"Well", said Bush, "How about 'principality'?".
The Queen replied "You're no prince, either".
"An empire?" retorted Bush.
"No, definitely not. You're not an emperor".

And before Bush could say another word, the Queen turned to him and said, "I think you're doing quite nicely as a country."

Re:Oh yeah?

[marnanel]

Nice idea, but it's the other way around: the word "sheriff" derives from "shire", not "shire" from "sherrif".

Did anyone suggest:

[DeltaSigma]

Republican/Democrat as a replacement yet?

Re:Did anyone suggest:

[wed128]

or maybe Cheney(master) and Bush(slave)...

Re:Did anyone suggest:

[Anonymous Coward]

How about "DeltaSigma is a fucking rightwing idiot"? Yeah, I think that's better. Democrats are idiots, but you fucknugget republicans are of the inbred persuasion.

Re:Did anyone suggest:

[XipX]

Oh yes, because then every four years, we could possibly have a new ban and have to change it to Democrat/Republican.

In other news: Bush's shoe size is now the official length of the foot. Democrats plan on changing the length to Dean's foot size if he comes to power.

Re:Did anyone suggest:

[mlk]

Or Bush(Master), Blair (Slave).

Re:Did anyone suggest:

[DeltaSigma]

Couldn't have been a poke at a Republican held state power could it? You know... Governater... Republican... Politically Correct... Republicans masters to Democrats... ...eh, you're right, it wasn't that funny.

Re:Did anyone suggest:

[Anonymous Coward]

you sure it's not other way around?

Master/Slave designation should be replaced with..

[Anonymous Coward]

...Real State/California designation.

Simple solution?

[Anonymous Coward]

Mandate SCSI. Or just call them M and S, standing for... oh... main and second. (scratching out the 'aster' and 'lave'

Re:Simple solution?

[Anonymous Coward]

How about just referring to them as S&M? ;-)

Other funny tech words

[ryanhos]

At my first programming job, we shared an open office with the sales people. We started designing this large system with small group meetings in the common area of the office. We kept talking about "forking children" and "killing children" and our master process was called the "mother." Finally one of the more ditzy sale women came back and asked us to explain our disturbing terminology. She didn't think that "forking babies" was proper office talk. She was okay with it once we explained the terminology.

Re:Other funny tech words

[clj]

Multiple times at work I've seen people taken aback when hearing a comment like "his Sun died", meaning
the workstation on his desk wouldn't boot, not that
his male offspring was deceased.

Re:Other funny tech words

[jd_esguerra]

"forking babies"

Oh, shit! That's a programming phrase? No wonder I failed out....

And am in jail...

Re:Other funny tech words

[Anonymous Coward]

at a place where i worked we had a southpark naming convention for our (colocated) servers. sounded like a good idea at the time, but after dozens of machines, you start to run out of names.
well, one day we bought a huge (for us) quad xeon database server. the chosen name for it was 'big fat bitch'. after several months, we got a complaint that someone in the company has a problem with it. obviously, it was none of the engineers (y'know those guys are cool), but we did have a recently hired big fat bitch graphic designer. mind you, none of the designers ever needed to touch, use, look-at, or smell any of the colocated machines, these were used by engineers only! the machine was changed to "bfb". she was layed-off shortly after.

Re:Other funny tech words

[Anonymous Coward]

I honestly think that "Dongle" is the funniest tech word in existence. It may very well be the funniest word ever. Dongle.. say it with me- dongle.

yeah.

Re:Other funny tech words

[Anonymous Coward]

michael?

(he eats them you know)

Re:Other funny tech words

[Anonymous Coward]

Heh, at my work I program on a small distributed system, and in designing the underlying RPCs, I had to think twice about using functions that I would originally have wanted to call abortChild() and abortAllChildren(). I think I settled on terminateAllSubprocesses().

Re:Other funny tech words

[Brad Mace]

My girlfriend was similarly confused when I was typing commands like man kill | more and killall. To make her feel better I made a symbolic link so that I could use happysunshine to disconnect the modem rather than killall pppd

Re:Other funny tech words

[AndroidCat]

Good thing you didn't talk about terminating zombie children. I had a problem with that a while ago with Coherent, but I had a daemon clean them up for me.

Re:Other funny tech words

[myg]

Thank goodness my girlfriend knows UNIX. In fact, she's a bit quick with that killall command when one of her daemons goes awry.

I don't think I could date a women that had me make a happysunshine script.

Re:Other funny tech words

[defaultXIX]

thats the funniest shit i've read in weeks :)

Re:Other funny tech words

[Anonymous Coward]

thats the funniest shit i've read in weeks :)

Yeah, cause you can't create a symbolic link to a command with arguments...

Re:Other funny tech words

[Wateshay]

In what OS? I do it all the time, in multiple versions of Unix (and no, none of the links are named happysunshine).

Re:Other funny tech words

[Anonymous Coward]

That's why you should only reap your zombie children.

Master/Slave

[anthony_dipierro]

Will now be replaced with Slave/Master

Re:Master/Slave

[Anonymous Coward]

Will now be replaced with Slave/Master

No it won't. Read the article, moron.

I never used those words anyway

[donscarletti]

That doesn't worry me in the slightest. I have never had a master and slave on any of my IDE chains. I simply have "the butch" and "the bitch".

This means that I would have no problem moving to L.A. But I think my hard drives would feel more at home in San Francisco.

Re:I never used those words anyway

[Thugwold]

...But I think my hard drives would feel more at home in San Francisco.

In San Fran you can use TOP and BOTTOM

Re:I never used those words anyway

[Kashif Shaikh]

"That doesn't worry me in the slightest. I have never had a master and slave on any of my IDE chains."

Neither have I. Each of the drives figures out who has a bigger penis via Cable Select and declares themselves master:)

Re:I never used those words anyway

[Ixitar]

But which one is the controlling device?

Why use master/slave in the first place?

[identity0]

Okay, I agree that this is way too PC, and furthermore, the gov't should *not* be mandating technical terms just because they might offend.

That said, why do we use the master/slave terminology in the first place? It has negative connotations even if you're not black, jewish, etc. and it does not fit the actual situation in some cases. For example, as I understand it the 'master' IDE drive does not control the 'slave', they are both 'slaves' to the IDE controller. How did this terminology start?

Re:Why use master/slave in the first place?

[HBI]

Actually the IDE interface on the motherboard is just a 'host adapter' while the brains reside on the 'master' drive.

The slave drive is just that: a slave. Therefore it behooves you to put the most modern drive in as the master to avoid compatibility issues.

This was much more significant back in the days when I had my first WD 40mb - not so much now.

Re:Why use master/slave in the first place?

[Anonymous Coward]

See here.

MASTER - Takes control/precidence (first drive to boot)
SLAVE - Follows after...

Makes you wonder about the ethnicity of the person who complained about it

Re:Why use master/slave in the first place?

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe his ethnicity was Jesse Jackson. I mean, oops.

Re:Hmm... replacement suggestions

[cryptor3]

How about "mid-cable" and "end-cable."

YOU are still a slave

[Anonymous Coward]

they just pay you thesedays, you are still a prisoner in your job

You know what I've always hated...

[Anonymous Coward]

I hate to have to "submit" information in a web form, as if the computer has some great power that I must "submit" to. Hence, whenever I design something for the web, I use a term such as "send" for that button.

In Socialist California

[notcreative]

Here in America, you label drives "Master/Slave" for correctness.

In Socialist California, the label correctness slaves master YOU!

Get real

[StealthHunter]

Some people just need to stay away from copmuters, it's not like the Hard Drives care, it's not hurting their feelings, they are not be suppressed...

Automobile clutches too

[natpoor]

The clutch assembly in cars have a master and a slave cylinder (well I'm not an expert, but at least manuals do).

Mine went out once. You can't engage the clutch anymore!

Insert snarky remark about oppressing the auto industry here.

Re:Automobile clutches too

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah -- those automatic transmissions are a bitch (or is that slave?) when the clutch fails.

geez.

Re:Automobile clutches too

[MachDelta]

Wow, good point! The automobile industry will really have their work cut out for them!

What about things like the Layshaft. We wouldn't want to imply that the shaft is somehow unintelligent, now would we? (In a manual transmission, the layshaft is the part of the transmission directly connected to the wheels, which also meshes with the actual forward gears.)
Or how about Dog Teeth? Since they aren't actually small dogs, this term seems to imply that these poor, oppressed teeth are somehow slovenly. For shame! (Dog teeth are what lock the gears together when they're fully engaged)
But problems go much farther than transmissions! Turbochargers have wastegates to bypass excess exhaust, yet that exhaust could have been put to work work, were it not for that opressive valve. Even such basic things as the control arms used for steering your car could be interpreted as offensive! Perhaps they should be named to Direction-Suggestion arms instead?

BTW, you are correct: Only manual transmissions have master and slave clutch cylinders. All cars with brakes (hopefully all of them...) have something similar to master and slave cylinders though.
As for your troubles, well, a hydraulic clutch operates on the same principle as your brakes do (hydraulics to increase pressure). So when your master or slave cyl's give out, you aren't producing enough force to disengage the clutch. Thus, shifting gears becomes somewhat of a challenge :)

California: prisoner abuse capital of the USA!

[Anonymous Coward]

California has by some measures the greatest amount of prisoner abuse in the United States. They are toruring prisoners and being PC about verbage. This is _sickening_

Of course it's offensive!

[UserChrisCanter4]

Look at the labeling. Point of Manufacture on these things are Malaysia, Thailand, Hungary, etc. They're shipped 20 and 30 to a 3'x4' packing crate, against their will. Forced to endure this trip without food or water, these poor mass-storage devices are then forced to spin at 5400 and sometimes 7200 revolutions per minute, without breaks, in dusty and hot environments.

I'm glad someone in California has at least taken the initiative to keep them from being referred to as slaves. The next step is a move to an 8-hour workday (although I think IBM already recommends that on some of their Deskstar line), and two 15-minute breaks per work period (I can do without swap for a few minutes, I guess). Of course, I hope they realize the negative connotations of the term "Server"

Re:Of course it's offensive!

[jd_esguerra]

and two 15-minute breaks per work period

Tried two 15 minute water breaks. Didn't work. In fact, the second one turned into more of a smoking break.

Re:Of course it's offensive!

[ashot]

thats hilarious.. you win.

Re:Of course it's offensive!

[David_W]

...then forced to spin at 5400 and sometimes 7200 revolutions per minute...

Then I must be truly evil... the ones in my workstation spin at 10,000 RPMs.

car brakes too

[Anonymous Coward]

the standard hydrolic car brake system relies on master cylinders and slave cylinders. I guess they'll be in the market for new brakes for all county vehicles.

I don't want a PC PC!

[paranerd]

Sorry. I should have resisted.

I suppose Male and Female are next?

[robdeadtech]

and I don't mean Male = Master
and Female = slave.

what about Master / Subordinate?
or Master / Pupil?

So is this an S&M beef or a racism beef? or both?!?!

I propose Pimp and Ho.

What about

[Anonymous Coward]

"USrael" and "Terrorist" - they are closely linked and acting in a perfect synchronized fashion. After all, they are trying to reach the same goal...

Re:What about

[Anonymous Coward]

Who posted this? I want to add you to my friends list.

Let's hope...

[Dr Rick]

... nobody in L.A. County hears a Unix sys admin talking about killing children or looking for zombies...

LA County=master...

[Anonymous Coward]

electronics industry=slave

Gotta love politicians.

[MuckSavage]

Yet another lovely example of why politicians should not be allowed to say anything in regards to technology.

Re:Gotta love politicians.

[cryptor3]

Not politicians. Bureaucrats started this little crapfest.

Just the beginning

[Anonymous Coward]

The terms 'Hard Drive and 'Floppy drive' are offensive to those with erectile dysfunction.

The term 'Computer' is offensive to those who cannot add.

The term 'Mini Tower' is offensive to midgets.

The term 'Midget' is offensive to little people.

Re:Just the beginning

[Green Monkey]

The term 'little people' is offensive to hobbits.

Enough with the "I for one"s

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck following every instance of "I" with "for one". When you use the term "I", it is assumed that "I" only refers to you.

It's a hoax

[twistedcubic]

I'm live in Los Angeles. I just walked onto my balcony and screamed "MASTER/SLAVE!" Nothing happened (except one guy below looked at me kinda funny) so it's clearly a hoax.

One can only imagine

[Anonymous Coward]

what will happen when this offended chap reads up on 'mount'.

Re:One can only imagine

[crass751]

Would they do that via 'man mount'?

In Other News...

[femto]

The XYZ connector company has announced a new line of connectors. According to their press release:

"Our new "Durax"(tm) connectors are available in both male and female sexes. To improve performance in vibrating environments, we have used laser ablation to yield a smoother contact surface for more intimate mating, leading to reduced resistance...

Some people simply have nothing better to do....

[Newer Guy]

Some people simply have nothing better to do. Last month there was a big deal in Los Angeles about lap dancing. The state faces a 30 billion dollar deficit, has the highest unemployment of all the top 10 tech states, has a big illegal immigrant problem, has had the worst wildfires in it's history and the powers that be worry about lap dancing and computer terminology. To this bunch I say:

DOWN ON YOUR KNEES! CRACK!!!

euphemisms never hide the "real meaning" !

[Anonymous Coward]

euphemisms never hide the "real meaning" !

for centuries the word "negro" was used.
(the word means black)

then the new euphemism was created (allegedly because being a negro was a bad thing)

the new description was "people of color"

then, because there are so many colors and it was not descriptive, and in fact MORE offensive to some, a new agreeable or inoffensive expression was created in the 60's

the word became 'Black"

in the 70's it became "African american" even though whites inhabit africa (for nearly 4 centuries in south america).. the silly phrase "African american" survived all the way to the end of the 1990s.

now its the word "black" again.

the word Hirple was meant to sound nicer than cripple, then cripple and gimp gave way to handicapped. then "challenged people"

ridiculous!

you cannot hide the REAL MEANING everyone knows the stigmas of being associated with a high crime low iq race, or being handicapped in other ways.

I have an idea.

[Raven42rac]

How about balance your fucking budget, THEN worry about stupid shit like this.

Re:I have an idea.

[Anonymous Coward]

Come now, please mind your language. This is an important issue. Thousands of CDROMs and HDDs around the world are being enslaved. Have you no compassion? Join us here at the IDELF to stamp out this most unjust practice. Why, Why must we endure this injustice.

Yay!

[penguinoid]

I've been waiting so long for politically correct computers. Diebold's behind it, no doubt.

1984

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you think that George Orwell ever envisioned "Newspeak" and "Doublethink" would be forced into technical jargon?

I wonder how long it will be before "upload" and "download" get changed. I am still surprized that "male" and "female" plugs are still around.

For the love of God...

[lendude]

...please, think of the hard drives!

Re:What's wrong with you that you need to say slav

[Dr Tall]

Disk drives are ordered, they are not enslaved.

But, "Orderly" is more letters than "Slave". Think efficency!

How about Bastard file?

[bsharma]

Is it legal to use a Bastard file (a file intermediate between the coarsest and the second cut) to work on a Male/Female fitting (PC term: 'U-T' fitting)?

Broader Racial Conspiracy

[gnarled]

I was just inspecting my IDE cables and I noticed that the connector denoted master is a light gray, while the slave connector is black. It seems that the people who designed this standard were part of a conspiracy to bring black slavery in the United States. I should have seen it all along.

Let's not stop there...

[rdewald]

I have been scanning my technical documentation and I have found several similarly offensive and discriminatory terms. I propose the following modifications:

1. Server/client - please use transactor/transactee.
   
2. Ones/zeroes - please use numerically-advantaged/disadvantaged
   
3. directory/folder - please use facilitator/facilitatee
   
4. physical/virtual - please use reality-enhanced/disenhanced.
   

I, for one, welcome our new facilitators.

Re:Let's not stop there...

[Xerithane]

The liberal usage of "dis" (in disadvanteged, and disenhanced) has caused irreperable harm to my clients, Mr. Zero and Mrs. Virtual. Heretofor, in the great county of Los Angeles, we will be pursuing legal actions against you for your transgressions.

In addition to this release, Mr. Zero wishes it to be known that he is not disadvantaged, but "Differently Positive." Mrs. Virtual wishes it to be known that she is not disenhanced, but "Differently Enhanced."

It's important to note, and understand, that because an individual is different than you, that they still maintain an important and vital role in society that cannot be filled by someone without their unique abilities. These are differently-abled people, and deserve to be treated like the unique individuals they are.

We can settle out of tort for $1,000,000USD to be transferred to my Nigerian bank account so my children can immediately extract it.

Re:Let's not stop there...

[Anonymous Coward]

You got me busting out... those were great. :)

Re:Let's not stop there...

[Anthony Boyd]

Ones/zeroes - please use numerically-advantaged/disadvantaged

This isn't fair. Just as handicapped people are really "handicapable," so are zeros. To call them disadvantaged implies bias. You can't use "more/less" either. I believe the proper way to resolve this is use the terms, "line/oval."

Hmm. That's actually a bit phallic now that I think about it. Hell, I might as well have called it hot dog & doughnut. How about "straightaway/ellipse?" It might still be a bit phallic, but it's getting so obscure that most people would never make the connection. In fact, it's so disconnected from tangible concepts that most people will just wander around in a PC daze, never fully grasping what is being said. And in this PC day and age, we certainly don't want people to be grasping things, as that can have a double meaning too. Sounds like a good solution, then!

Re:Let's not stop there...

[donutello]

Ones/zeroes - please use numerically-advantaged/disadvantaged

Shouldn't that be: "Capitalist white male scum who have obtained wealth by exploiting the poor" and "Poor, disadvantaged folks"?

Re:Let's not stop there...

[Anonymous Coward]

Zero is a number, not a lack of a number. No disadvantage there.

Re:Let's not stop there...

[ifwm]

It's funny you brought this up. I work in as a behavior analyst in a residential treatment center, and we deal with metally retarded clients. It's funny to watch outsiders react when I call them retarded, but you know what? Only the outsiders do that. The clients don't (they're retarded after all) and what's more, the professionals don't either. Because that's accepted as the correct designation for their condition. Of course, many people would ask that we sacrifice factual correctness to serve political correctness.

Re:Let's not stop there...

[rdewald]

"We can settle out of tort for $1,000,000USD to be transferred to my Nigerian bank account so my children can immediately extract it.'

Mr. Kenny Humbigawee of Lagos has agreed to act as my intermediary. I will send you plane tickets to meet him in Lagos upon receipt of your credit card numbers and expiration dates. This formaility is necessary for identification purposes only to facilitate the transfer of funds. Your portion of the transfer will be 304%.

Thank you for your assistance and business expertise with this important settlement matter.

Your humble secondary,

Mr. A. Okalipa Humpakin

Re:Let's not stop there...

[IntelliTubbie]

Ones/zeroes - please use numerically-advantaged/disadvantaged ...
physical/virtual - please use reality-enhanced/disenhanced.

Disadvantaged and disenhanced? That's differently advantaged and differently enhanced, you bigot!

Cheers,
IT

Re:Let's not stop there...

[Anonymous Coward]

As a CS tutor, I'd also like to add...

5. head/tail - please use first/last

*alternative*

If you _must_ use the words head and tail, do _not_ adopt the Java convention of using 'get' as a prefix in naming accessor methods. Avoid code like:

if (length() > 6)
push( getTail() );
else
push( getHead() );

Re:Let's not stop there...

[DA-MAN]

oval is too close to ovum, which comes from the ovaries and could be percieved as a pussy thus oval would not be a good replacement for zero.

Re:Let's not stop there...

[arb]

I would like to point out that some sectors of the community feel aggreived that you are choosing to highlight their unique abilities in a negative by referring to these abilities as "different". The correct title for Mr Zero is therefore "Positive in a manner which, while not the same as other Positive beings, has just as much to offer society in a unique and beneficial way. (Which is not to say that the offerings of other Positive beings is in any way diminished.)" Similarly, Mrs Virtual should be referred to as "Enhanced other respects, without disrespecting any or all other forms of enhancement."

Re:Let's not stop there...

[Anonymous Coward]

This reminds me, when working with computers, I've become accustomed to the term "server" referring to something with more power and privileges than a "client"...

Non-Sighted?

[IAmTheSuit]

Will this PC crap never end? While using my neighborhood Wells Fargo today, I saw a sign posted to the ATM. The sign was in Braille, and printed on it was "For our Non-Sighted Customers". #1 - Is "blind" a bad word now? WTF is Non-Sighted??? #2 - Those "non-sighted customers" won't even be able to read the printing and be offended!

Call fat people fat. Call handicapped people handicapped (not "handi-capable" - how condescending). Call blind people blind. I'm a pasty white guy, and I wouldn't be offended if you called me that either! So eat it you PC bastards!

car/truck manufacturers

[Yonder Way]

Of course this should also be sent to the big auto manufacturers and parts vendors who provide master and slave cylinders (part of the automotive brake and clutch systems, respectively).

Re:car/truck manufacturers

[Anonymous Coward]

I really wanted to know about this situation too. How many auto manufacturers and suppliers will this "affect"?

Nice, but generally incorrect

[EvilStein]

Primary/Secondary would refer to the IDE channels.

That would cause MORE confusion if used to describe drives. "The primary drive on the primary controller" vs "The Master on the Primary controller"

Eh, I guess that you *could* interchange the two, but master/slave *is* an industry standard.

Re:Nice, but generally incorrect

[anagama]

Controlling people are assholes. So, in addition to getting rid of master/slave terminology, we need to rename that controller "thingy".

I'm not kidding.

I've never been comfortable with the term either

[walterbyrd]

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't make a federal case out of it. But I wouldn't mind using a different phrase.

Well Thank Heavens!

[sillypixie]

At last, some people with CONSCIENCE!

Maybe at last, I'll be able to complain loud enough so that nobody ever says "on top" again either.

Oh, and I'd also like to complain about all those people called "missionaries" too...

And no one should EVER use the word "sad" either, ewww.

It's just disgusting, in any context!

*chuckle*

Pixie

And the "Masters Golf Tournament"?

[ron_ivi]

And www.masters.org (a golf tournament) will be called what?!?

Re:And the "Masters Golf Tournament"?

[brianosaurus]

They play in Augusta, GA, not LA County.

Besides, who in the South has ever been offended by the terms "master" and "slave" ;)

Re:And the "Masters Golf Tournament"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Besides, who in the South has ever been offended by the terms "master" and "slave"

Besides all the slaves? ; )

Re:And the "Masters Golf Tournament"?

[Anonymous Coward]

uh, yeah. i think that was the joke, hence the ";)"

What about automotive brakes?

[Cutriss]

Brake hydraulics use master/slave cylinders. Will we also be requiring GM/Ford/Chrysler et al to change all part designations to reflect this short-sightedness?

Re:What about automotive brakes?

[Anonymous Coward]

Clutches, too. Twitty bureaucrats, may they all be eaten by star goats.

Free at last!

[Colonel Cholling]

I removed the slave jumper from my hard drive, then plugged it in to the connector directly adjacent to the mobo on the ribbon cable. You know, so it wasn't at the back of the bus anymore.

Re:Free at last!

[Anonymous Coward]

that's the funniest shit i've ever read on this god-forsaken site.

Re:Free at last!

[El_Smack]

You Sir, have just posted the absolute, hands down, no exceptions, *BEST* comment I have ever read on this site.
Concise, perfectly executed and exquisitly clever. A joy to behold.

My hat goes off to you.

Re:Free at last!

[rice_burners_suck]

I have a better idea: The "master" jumper should be white. The "slave" jumper should be black. Then they'll really get upset. Because, as we all know, the ONLY time in the history of the world that any group of people was enslaved was in the United States, less than 200 years ago.

Hard drive manufacturers shouldn't be so NIGGARDLY in supplying jumpers, and should incur the expense of shipping color-coded jumpers.

Re:Free at last!

[Anonymous Coward]

Dear god! this is incredibly funny.

I am still trying to shuffle all the hilarious things I've read on slashdot and compare them to your comment. This ranks in the top 10.

Re:Free at last!

[Morbid_Angel666]

Kudos! I fell out of my chair as I read that and my eyes are stil watering!

Re:Free at last!

[archivis]

Brilliant! I'm laughing like a deranged hyena!!

Life Imitates Jokes

[noddyholder]

I've joked about this a few times at work when the (military) instructors I work with discuss the latest in command directed PC nuttiness. They can't use the term cockpit, it's a flight deck. Neither can they say white board or black board. Those are now officially marker boards and chalk boards. I used to joke that we can't use master/slave anymore due to a NAACP lawsuit against the computer industry. Guess it ain't a joke anymore.

Re:Life Imitates Jokes

[TKinias]

scripsit noddyholder:

They can't use the term cockpit, it's a flight deck.

I'm not a pilot, but I've sat in the, erm, `flight deck' of an F-15 before. `Deck' is an extremely generous term for it; even `balcony' would be going a bit far...

Re:Life Imitates Jokes

[dmaxwell]

Apologies to George Carlin:

What's wrong with a perfectly nice word like cockpit? Especially with all of those stewardesses..I mean..flight attendants going in and out of it all of the time? And while were at it, who made the guy in the cockpit the captain? Tell the captain that Air Marshall dmaxwell says go fuck yourself.

Re:Life Imitates Jokes

[Scrameustache]

They can't use the term cockpit, it's a flight deck.

I wholeheartadly agree! The word "pit" is clearly offensive as it refers to a nasty, smelly part of the human anatomy.

Placing cocks in underarms is also a form of animal cruelty that borders on sexual perversion!

Re:Life Imitates Jokes

[Gulik]

I used to joke that we can't use master/slave anymore due to a NAACP lawsuit against the computer industry. Guess it ain't a joke anymore.

My personal theory is that when God hears a joke he likes, he repeats it.

Re:Life Imitates Jokes

[rjune]

When I was stationed in North Dakota we had a female pilot who demanded we use the term "flight deck" when she was flying. The alternative term we settled on was "Box Office"

You can imagine the response when she called in that the crack detector light was illuminated on her aiplane! (At the time the -135 had an acoustical crack detection system because of cracking in the wings)

Re:Life Imitates Jokes

[jc42]

I remember back in grade school thinking that "black board" wasn't a very good term, because most of them were green.

Then, when the first "white boards" came out, many of which were beige or cream, but definitely not white, it seemed even sillier.

The terms "marker board" and "chalk board" make a lot more sense, because that tells you the significant thing about what sort of board it is.

(As long as we don't get into a debate over whether a piece of chalk is a "marker". ;-)

sh#

[gearheadsmp]

And just think of their reaction to the kill command!

god_box# killall losangelos

My tax dollars at work

[Teahouse]

Gang warfare, poor policing in the Sheriff's department, a school district that produces idiots, and a fire department in the highest wildfire area in the world that doesn't own a single airel tanker. Yep, those board supivisors are earning their money alright. They have eliminated a benign yet useful bit of global computer nomenclature to sooth the feathers of some psycho religious county employee.

Re:My tax dollars at work

[Anonymous Coward]

Simply brilliant. Only those psycho religious people are worried about pc nomenclature. How in the world did this get modded insightful?!

Re:My tax dollars at work

[Teahouse]

Yes psycho religious people. Be they Muslim, Jewish, or Christian, they are one of the biggest problems in this world. The other is racism on either side of the issue.

Reality is, it's not a far walk from worrying about a stupid topic like PC nomenclature to worrying about some lame ass topic like abortion or homosexuals. They all fall into the intrusive prude category of religion and race. We have far larger problems in the world then "master/slave". Next thing you know, we won't be able to call connections male/female. Meanwhile, we can't feed our own populaton.

Re:My tax dollars at work

[Anonymous Coward]

You're right. It's always the muslims, jews, and christians that call me out on my pc-ness.

Arnie

[darnok]

This, from a chunk of the state that put Arnie Schwartz in as Governor. A man who you'd have to say would be as au-fait with "master/slave" in the non-computer sense as just about any high-profile person in the Western world.

"No, I have not ever supported the Nazis". "No, I did not force this woman, or that one, or that one, to submit to my sexual advances".

Priceless

Brings to mind...

[Anonymous Coward]

Ms. Emily - "What's all this I hear about violins on television?! The violin is a wonderful instrument! It sounds nice and..."

Chevy - "No, that's violence on television... not violins."

Ms. Emily - "Oh. Well, that's very different, isn't it? Never mind."

political what?

[POds]

This will never happen where i live, we still get away with references to "poofs" on commercial TV. Also, we get away with the odd sware word!

Blah.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm typing this comment on my keyboard of color and I'm going to click "preview" with my caucasian mouse.

What about the sea horses?

[bleckywelcky]

What I want to know is how sea horses wire up their audio systems. I mean, if they go down to radio shack and ask for a male-male cable, which one is it? The male or the female? Huh? Which one is it? For the love of all things good, will someone please tell me which one is it?????

Re:What about the sea horses?

[ShavenYak]

Since seahorses, as well as many other fish, undergo gender transformations, they probably refer to their connectors differently. Probably the one with the hole is called "mouth" and the part that goes into the hole is called "food". Or at least, they would be, except for the fact that their audio equipment won't work underwater anyway!

Which reminds me - how the hell did the fish in Finding Nemo learn so much about dental tools?

I don't offend anyone

[Neo-Rio-101]

I don't offend anyone... it's just that people often get upset and like to blame me for it.

This is lame.

[Anonymous Coward]

What next, someone "offended" by the term, "cracker", boycotting Nabisco, etc.?

Geez.

Is it ok...

[tedgyz]

...to call the idiots that enacted this law retarded?

Actually, that would be unfair to retarded people.

Never mind.

This reminds me

[geekoid]

of the time I had to fight a ban on the word 'deamon'.
Fortunatly, I won that. Some people thought I was the spawn of satan for using that term.

When one of the women confronted me and told me should would not say deamon, and that it was offensive to her belief.
I told her "If you allow a simple word like Deamon direct how you live your life, Satan has already won."

Pretty much the same thing I tell people when they get upset becase they have to give out 6.66 in change.

What I want to say is "Stop being such a twit."
Followed up by spinning my head around.

Re:This reminds me

[Jardine]

the time I had to fight a ban on the word 'deamon'

Not to be a nitpicking jerk or anything, but I'm pretty sure it's 'daemon' and pronounced 'day-mon' or 'da-eh-mon' rather than 'demon'. That might have made the fight to keep the term a lot easier.

Re:This reminds me

[Trejkaz]

Nope, the dictionary says it's just an alternative to demon.

Re:This reminds me

[Anonymous Coward]

"Daemon" would still be pronounced "DEE-mon". (Think "aegis" or "aether", for example.) Of course, originally it's Greek, so any English pronounciation is a bit warped. "Daimon" ("DIE-mon") is another alternate spelling.

Demons (or daemons or daimons) were orginally not necessarily evil. They were spirits greater than men and less than gods, often a guiding spirit or "genius".

The Unix sense of the word most probably derives from analogy with Maxwell's demon, a process sitting in the background carrying out a task. Interestingly, this particular scenario is closest to the original meaning of the Indo-European root, which is simply "to divide".

Re:This reminds me

[Anonymous Coward]

You must not let anyone know. The Church of the BSD is indeed a worshipper of the Great Satan. BSD actually stands for "Brothers and Sisters of the Devil". They regularly kill their children and chant in ancient the ancient language "chmod six six six (666)". This guttural noise even sounds unholy, like something from Lovecraft in fact. The BSDers religion is an amalgamation of voodoo and Satanism (zombies are a common occurrence) and coded references to Wine and b_read in their code (i.e., the book, or doctrine) refer to unholy rituals involving wine and bread (the body). I won't even mention their unholy mascot.

Re:This reminds me

[Anonymous Coward]

Pretty much the same thing I tell people when they get upset becase they have to give out 6.66 in change

If someone got upset with me for giving them 6.66 in change, I'd just say, "Okay, here's your $2"

Re:This reminds me

[Just Some Guy]

One of my previous bosses bid a job at $666.00 for parts - unfortunately, as it turns out, to a devout Assemblies of God believer.

Quote (and I couldn't make this up): "I ain't payin' the devil-number!"

He was less than pleased that my boss's suggested fix was to round up to $667: "you mean I have to pay extra?"

Re:This reminds me

[IthnkImParanoid]

I worked as a cashier, and occasionally sold bus 10 ride passes for the University buses. The passes are exact duplicates, except for the serial number. One day an old asian lady wouldn't take the bus pass I handed to her, and wouldn't take the next one....

I was confused as hell until I realized she was looking at the serial numbers. Apparently in Chinese(?) culture, four is EVIL. Unfortunately for her, the four was far to the left, so everyone buying passes for the next five years was gonna get a four. She finally found a nice bus pass that didn't scare her so much while I was resisting the urge to tell her things like "This bus pass is yours. It has been dealt to you by fate, and giving it back makes it no less yours." and other things you shouldn't say to old ladies.

'Least not while them thar angels 'r watchin'.

Re:This reminds me

[PetWolverine]

Should have charged him $2^666 extra for acute mental anguish.

Re:This reminds me

[Anonymous Coward]

This may be so but the use of the word in unix was derived from the Greek meaning of helper and had no relation to the Christian demon.

Re:This reminds me

[polyiguana]

From the San Francisco Chronicle:

"Under the proposal, the regular adult fare would rise to $1.25.
Seniors, youth and the disabled would pay 45 cents -- an extra dime --
and the monthly Fast Pass would jump from $35 to $43.75. Muni
officials contemplated a $44 price tag on the Fast Pass but dropped
the idea once informed that the number four signifies death in the
Chinese culture, and 44 would represent double-death.

"It would have been really culturally stupid, insulting," said Lynch,
noting that a large number of Fast Pass holders are Chinese American."

Actually, the pass went up to $45 thanks to their complaints, when they realized that the bus pass vendors would have to dig up lots of quarters to give change for the pass. Hehehe.

Re:This reminds me

[Silburn_Luke]

In asia you'll generally not see floor or street numbers with 4 in them for the same reason. Its like office buildings in the US skipping 13 on the elevator panel.

Of course, with the quantity of superstition you get in Asia they also skip 13 (even though that's a European superstition - better safe than sorry, I guess) so the elevator panel for my apartment building in Jakarta skipped from 12 to 15.

Regards
Luke

Re:This reminds me

[Anonymous Coward]

Day-mon. Pfft.

I'll stick with dee-mon, the dictionary backs me up.

A lot of computers...

[xaoslaad]

...come with IDE cables clearly labeling the connectors Master and Slave. Some political intern asswipe son of a senator is gonna be scraping it off all the cables in LA for $50 an hour... red tape, corruption, and beaurocracy... ain't it great?

Don't Sell to LAC

[FerretOnMountDew]

If I read correctly, this affects only those peices sold to LA County -- not individuals or private businesses. Pity it'd never happen, but I'd seriously consider refusing to sell to LAC until they lifted the rediculous restriction.

Alternatively. A modern miracle of engineering could produce an entirely new system that will be entirely compatible with the older termed drives, etc. and it'd only cost LAC a low 200% upcharge (read that as put a sticker on any box or manual which uses the term master/slave).

All in all, the real question is: How will vendors (if at all) respond? I seriously see this flopping. But assuming it stays, it will be near impossible to convert every system to remove all such references.

Primary Seconday is already in use !

[imtheguru]

Get over it. Primary/Secondary is a perfectly valid way to refer to drive relationships and it doesn't offend people.

Umm... perhaps you missed something here. Primary/Secondary is already in use... it describes the IDE Channel.

Each IDE channel can support two drives in Master/Slave configuration. This allows for 4 IDE/ATAPI devices devices to be connected to two channels.

What about slave photoflashes?

[Anonymous Coward]

They'll have to overhaul the photo industry as well !

What about Zen masters?

...hydraulic Master cylendars in cars?

...software patches to fix "race" conditions?

...industry "white" papers?

What about MBA's??????

Bigger picture implications?

[jeeves99]

So what happens when another city bans the term? Some city councilman (councilperson?????) hears the story and decides he wants a quick jolt of good PR. Then another council-human does it. Then another council-huperson. Then another council-spiritualy-accepting-individual does it.

Will international computing standards now be set by the tip of the PC spear? Someone needs to nip this behavior in the bud. Anyone up to sparking some more LA riots?

What are we..

[Anonymous Coward]

Fucking french?

Replacement terms.

[russotto]

I suggest Viking/thrall.

Re:Replacement terms.

[maxdamage]

lord/serf?

Obituary: Common Sense

[imag0]

Forgive me if this is already posted. Unsure of the original author.

Today we mourn the passing of an old friend by the name of Common Sense.

Common Sense lived a long life but died from heart failure at the brink of the millennium. No one really knows how old he was since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape.

He selflessly devoted his life to service in schools, hospitals, homes, factories and offices, helping folks get jobs done without fanfare and foolishness.

For decades, petty rules, silly laws and frivolous lawsuits held no power over Common Sense. He was credited with cultivating such valued lessons as to know when to come in out of the rain, the early bird gets the worm, and life isn't always fair.

Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you earn), reliable parenting strategies (the adults are in charge, not the kids), and it's okay to come in second.

A veteran of the Industrial Revolution, the Great Depression, and the Technological Revolution, Common Sense survived cultural and educational trends including feminism, body piercing, whole language and "new math."

But his health declined when he became infected with the "If-it-only-helps-one-person-it's-worth-it" virus. In recent decades his waning strength proved no match for the ravages of overbearing federal regulation.

He watched in pain as good people became ruled by self-seeking lawyers and enlightened auditors. His health rapidly deteriorated when schools endlessly implemented zero tolerance policies, reports of six-year-old boys charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate, a teen suspended for taking a swig of mouthwash after lunch, and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student. It declined even further when schools had to get parental consent to administer aspirin to a student but cannot inform the parent when the female student is pregnant or wants an abortion.

Finally, Common Sense lost his will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband, churches became businesses, criminals received better treatment than victims, and federal judges stuck their noses in everything from Boy Scouts to professional sports.

As the end neared, Common Sense drifted in and out of logic but was kept informed of developments, regarding questionable regulations for asbestos, low flow toilets, "smart" guns, the nurturing of Prohibition Laws and mandatory air bags.

Finally when told that the homeowners association restricted exterior furniture only to that which enhanced property values, he breathed his last.

Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents Truth and Trust; his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son, Reason. He is survived by three stepbrothers: Rights, Tolerance and Whiner.

Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone.

Re:Obituary: Common Sense

[Bertie]

Shame, that. The guy did some great albums.

The IQ of California Plummets Like A Rock

[Foofoobar]

First Schwarzenegger and now this? I suspect there is something in the water making Californians stupider (irony intended).

Re:The IQ of California Plummets Like A Rock

[Simple-Simmian]

When you get your masters degree and make your first million in real estate call me and we will talk about "Ahnold" he has his masters and his million off of real estate.

Re:The IQ of California Plummets Like A Rock

[Foofoobar]

He has an honorary masters... not the same. They give those to chihuahua's who win the lottery. And money does not mean you are competent or intelligent. Aside from that, his first million did NOT come from real estate... it came from movies you dolt.

Besides, do you even know who financed his bid? Kenneth Lay and his buddies; they had a billion dollar lawsuit against them by Cruz Bustamante. Ah-node got his financing from them and is now encouraging Cruz to drop the lawsuit against his buddies.

But you know that cause you're a rocket scientist like our buddy Ah-node, right?

Re:The IQ of California Plummets Like A Rock

[RevSmiley]

WTF you talking about Wills?

Re:The IQ of California Plummets Like A Rock

[Foofoobar]

Schwarzen-heimer... the Governator.

No, it should be Pimps and Hos, dog.

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it should be Pimps and Hos, dog.

I have an idea...

[gklinger]

How about from now on hard disks get labeled "Sempai" and "Kohai". Should appeal to the Japanese hard disk manufacturers.

PACK YOUR STUFF, LIBERAL TOY!

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't like it here in the good old US of A?! Piss off and move to fucking Iran, asshole!!!111

-- A proud patriot and Republican voter

Re:PACK YOUR STUFF, LIBERAL TOY!

[Anonymous Coward]

You do know that Los Angeles County is overall extremely left-wing, don't you? Hell, Bustamante won L.A. in the recall election.

Way to look like an ass, rightie. Smart.

Re:PACK YOUR STUFF, LIBERAL TOY!

[Anonymous Coward]

-- A liberal troll revealing more about himself than about his foes

Political correctness

[Progman3K]

Political correctness is one of the reasons the USA will self-destruct one of these days.

It's not enough that the government is now treating its own citizens as enemies, but the tortured population actually believes it deserves it.

Wake up america, before it's too late.

Mark this as a troll, it's easier than dealing with the truth.

Re:More inaccurate slashdot reporting

[Anonymous Coward]

No it is that ridiculous!

nigga please

[Anonymous Coward]

speaking as a 'puny' minority, i'd say it's about time. i too thought this was a dumb idea, until I read some of the racist crap coming from the slash-holes in the peanut gallery.

until you've walked a mile in another's shoes, don't be so quick to tell others what they should and should not be offended by.

Re:nigga please

[Anonymous Coward]

Well seeing as I'm just a "white devil" I guess I'm not allowed to have an opinion on this matter. Sorry if I offended anybody.

What about car parts?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does this ban also cover auto parts like master and slave cylinders? Is this just about hard-drives or does this cover everything?

What about master bedrooms?
What about the term "slaving away"?

This is just stupid.

"Political correctness" is loaded term.

[Thinkit3]

Can't we get beyond it? It implies sarcasm and a closed mind. Thinking must be really hard.

Re:"Political correctness" is loaded term.

[Anonymous Coward]

Shut your anal-cunt liberal mouth. Bitch!

Re:"Political correctness" is loaded term.

[freakmn]

After reading this, I think it's just an oxymoron.

Re:"Political correctness" is loaded term.

[ChaoticLimbs]

That is brilliant sarcasm. It will be missed.

Then again, some people are actually that sensitive to terms. People will actually believe you meant it because there are such ass-monkeys in the world trying to make us use more sensitive, ineffective language so that no meaning can adequately be conveyed.
If our language is fully cleansed of offensive language, a white man won't be able to tell a black friend to 'have a nice day' because that is a command, and completely inappropriate in a white/black context.

Re:"Political correctness" is loaded term.

[Anonymous Coward]

From this day forward, the proper method of a Caucasian-American male addressing an African-American male in passing shall be, "If you'd like to, you may have a nice day, but don't get me wrong, I'm not telling you to or anything, I just thought that maybe it would just be nice for you if you did have a nice day."

Re:"Political correctness" is loaded term.

[ChaoticLimbs]

"not that there was anything wrong with that if you didn't want to."

I like it!

[ratfynk]

I have always thought that the reference to master on the C drive was quite appropriate. Using Windows is rather like digital S&M.

Politically Correct Unix

[Anonymous Coward]

(abusing your highly modded post)

1. "man" pages are now called "person" pages.

2. Similarly, "hangman" is now the "person_executed_by_an_oppressive_regime."

3. To avoid casting aspersions on our feline friends, the "cat" command is now merely "domestic_quadruped."

4. To date, there has only been a UNIX command for "yes" - reflecting the male belief that women always mean yes, even when they say no. To address this imbalance, System VI adds a "no" command, along with a "-f[orce]" option which will crash the entire system if the "no" is ignored.

5. The bias of the "mail" command is obvious, and it has been replaced by the more neutral "gendre" command.

6. The "touch" command has been removed from the standard distribution due to its inappropriate use by high-level managers.

7. "compress" has been replaced by the lightweight "feather" command. Thus, old information (such as that from Dead White European Males) should be archived via "tar" and "feather".

8. The "more" command reflects the materialistic philosophy of the Reagan era. System VI uses the environmentally preferable "less" command.

9. The biodegradable "KleeNeX" displaces the environmentally unfriendly "LaTeX".

1. SHELL COMMANDS To avoid unpleasant, medieval connotations, the "kill" command has been renamed "euthanise."

2. The "nice" command was historically used by privileged users to give themselves priority over unprivileged ones, by telling them to be "nice". In System VI, the "sue" command is used by unprivileged users to get for themselves the rights enjoyed by privileged ones.

3. "history" has been completely rewritten, and is now called "herstory."

4. "quota" can now specify minimum as well as maximum usage, and will be strictly enforced.

5. The "abort()" function is now called "choice()."

1. TERMINOLOGY From now on, "rich text" will be more accurately referred to as "exploitive capitalist text".

2. The term "daemons" is a Judeo-Christian pejorative. Such processes will now be known as "spiritual guides."

3. There will no longer be a invidious distinction between "dumb" and "smart" terminals. All terminals are equally valuable.

4. Traditionally, "normal video" (as opposed to "reverse video") was white on black. This implicitly condoned European colonialism, particularly with respect to people of African descent. UNIX System VI now uses "regressive video" to refer to white on black, while "progressive video" can be any color at all over a white background.

5. For far too long, power has been concentrated in the hands of "root" and his "wheel" oligarchy. We have instituted a dictatorship of the users. All system administration functions will be handled by the People's Committee for Democratically Organizing the System (PC-DOS).

6. No longer will it be permissible for files and processes to be "owned" by users. All files and processes will own themselves, and decided how (or whether) to respond to requests from users.

7. The X Window System will henceforth be known as the NC-17 Window System.

8. And finally, UNIX itself will be renamed "PC" - for Procreatively Challenged.

Re:Politically Correct Unix

[Anonymous Coward]

The term "daemons" is a Judeo-Christian pejorative. Such processes will now be known as "spiritual guides."

Actually daemon is a greek word meaning helper and has no relationship to the Judeo-Christian demon.

Re:Politically Correct Unix

[zoeblade]

You can prise gunzip from my cold, dead hands.

Re:Politically Correct Unix

[wagemonkey]

2. Similarly, "hangman" is now the "person_executed_by_an_oppressive_regime."

Should be Executioner for oppresive regime, a hangman performs the act.
The "person_executed_by_an_oppressive_regime" has been hanged, and could be referred to as a hanged man.

(And yes there is a difference between hung and hanged).

Re:Politically Correct Unix

[Anonymous Coward]

1. "man" pages are now called "person" pages.

Except that per"son" implies the male gender, so there needs to be a number of per"daughter" pages, roughly equal in ratio to the number of men and women in the local community.

How about...

[Anonymous Coward]

Mr. + Mrs. ?
Master + Slut ?

My civil liberties eroded:

[ryanhos]

This reminds me of several incidents with my university.

1.) One fraternity on campus decided to have a "fros and 40s party." The party-goers were encouraged to obtain 'fro wigs and drink malt liquor from 40oz bottles. Such parties have been banned because they have been labeled as racist.

2.) The school required that a student remove or cover a poltical cartoon posted on his door. The cartoon is a swastika whose arms are made from the words "political correctness." The idea behind the cartoon is that succumbing to political correctness breeds fascism. The school does not own the structure (a fraternity house) in which the cartoon was hung. They requested it be taken down before my fraternity provide accomodations for 5 or 6 high school seniors for a school-sponsored scholarship weekend. We respected their right to ask us to comply if we were going to participate in their preview weekend. Instead of compromising our values and allowing our liberty to be chipped away piece by piece by meeting their demands, we attempted to choose not to provide accomodations for the students. (knowing full well that the school had several other places to house the students.) The administration official started making threats of sanctions, contacting our national office, and informing our jewish university president of the racist activities happening inside our house.

They never called our national.

But we called the ACLU.

Re:My civil liberties eroded:

[Anonymous Coward]

what the fuck are you doing reading /. fratboy?

are you kidding me?

[dandelion_wine]

It's not just the term, people. Think about it.

By allowing one drive to dominate another, we are in fact sanctioning slavery, itself.

All drives should be equally free to decide their own destiny. Ah, within our computers. As we see fit to use them.

Nevermind.

how about:

[Anonymous Coward]

patron/plebean?

While we're at it, ban "Angeles"

[cabalamat2]

And while we are at it, ban Angeles since angels are part of an archaic superstition system.

So Los Angeles County must now just be called Los.

Re:While we're at it, ban "Angeles"

[jesser]

Or just "LA", because that's what many people call it anyway.

Re:While we're at it, ban "Angeles"

[JeffTL]

"Los" is a MALE pronoun. Ban it too, it's sexist.

Re:While we're at it, ban "Angeles"

[DeadMeat (TM)]

How about "esto"? It's gender-neutral. Besides, if any city deserves to be called "this thing", it's Los Angeles.

Re:While we're at it, ban "Angeles"

[IthnkImParanoid]

How about "esto"? It's gender-neutral.

Yes, but that pronoun implies there is only one Los Angeles.

I'm a quantum physicist, you insensitive clod!

Re:While we're at it, ban "Angeles"

[TheLoneDanger]

So Los Angeles County must now just be called Los.

So, I assume its citizens would be Losers? Appropriate. Not necessarily because they are losers, but because apparently, these politicians are the best ones they can get.

I am offended by the word THE

[Anonymous Coward]

I want THE to be removed from all documents and web pages. It offends me deeply.

By the way, I'm also offended by the word OFFENDED. Please I should stop using it.

Double-Plus-Ungood Reasoning - Re:No Master/Slave?

[Nathdot]

What is so hard about referring to things in a new way?

Are you serious? I mean for real? The words "master" and "slave" are perfectly acceptable english words.

The historical events that such words may call to mind, are just that, events. That is not to say that the events are of little importance, not at all.

But these words are not implicitly problematic.

But why just roll over and eviscerate language whenever instructed?

Sure it's [not] so hard, but it bears a little examination first wouldn't you think.

"master/slave" is stupid anyway

[flacco]

i'm against virtually all forms of political correctness, but i've always thought this terminology is just stupid.

what about:

• primary/secondary?
• controller/subordinate
• controller/reactor
• controller/dependent

...depending on context of course.

others?

Re:"master/slave" is stupid anyway

[catbutt]

I tend to agree it's stupid. It seems ok to tech people, because we've seen it for so long, but someone seeing it for the first time might think it a little offensive to use a word normally reserved for a shame of our fairly recent past (in america, at least), as a metaphore for an everyday thing. I'd think "master/servant" would work as well, without carrying with it associations that can be hurtful or offensive to some.

(I got modded as flamebait and accused of being racist for an analogy elsewhere, where I showed that there are cases where most people would agree that this exact same sort of thing could be offensive....the only difference being one of degree. Maybe I should have labeled is as being sarcastic because people apparently completely missed my point...)

Re:"master/slave" is stupid anyway

[jafiwam]

Primary/secondary are designators already used in reguards to the first (0) and second (1) IDE channels on standard motherboards.

So the addition of other terms designating a heirarchy makes sense because you could well be already talking about primary/secondary in the same sentence.

I think changing the terminology is stupid, right along with many other posters. Though I am interested in human language (as practiced, not as idealized) as a hobby and therefore have no academic weight whatsoever;

Verbal communication must above all be functional for it's context. Things that cause misunderstandings (not PC-isms, but actual loss of signal) get weeded out and people's language changes to suit.

For example; I worked in a pea cannery clean up crew a couple summers and found my speech patterns changed dramatically. "This" became "Dis" and "That" became "Dat", "there" became "Dere". Aside from the mix of slight non-US accents spoken at the plant, the "TH" sound is simply _too_quiet_ to be heard while noisy machinery is nearby. The so-called "lowbrow" language was a perfectly natural and essential way to speak when you can't hear so well due to noise and have a hardhat and rubber rain gear on all the time.

"Master/slave" should not go away until there is a good substitute, but also one that better suits the complex language needed to talk about them intelligently.

The people that want to change the terms probably think the "hard drive" is the thing that the monitor and keyboard plug into (i.e. the case). They should go back to trying to figure out why their cup-holder keeps closing when they reboot.

Re:"master/slave" is stupid anyway

[CXI]

Controller/subordinate is just as offensive. Using controller regardless of the other term implies that someone is losing out on their free will. The problem with political correctness is you can never win. Anyone can come up with an excuse for anything to be offensive, which is why I find political correctness itself to be an offensive waste of energy. I'm pissed at myself for even responding.

Doesn't anyone here have a sense of humor??

[Newer Guy]

Damn!

if they knew EAN Codes

[phoenix123]

then they'll froze in horror: UPC/EAN barcodes use symbol "6" as a designator for stop, end and block separator. That way "6" is never used as a numerical part or "payload" in the code - it exists only in the coded stripe form: (6)block1(6)block2(6)

As todays barcodes consist of 2 blocks, practically every barcode carries the "6-6-6" on it.

Same thing: the inventors tried to avoid any "six"="sex"-references and "*666*"-occurances. Of course this means every product bears the mark of the beast as described in the bible meaning the end is near.

No joke, try to find a human-readable number 6 on a barcode :)

Harrr harr the end is nigh!!!1!!!11 :)

Re:if they knew EAN Codes

[Anonymous Coward]

UPC/EAN barcodes use symbol "6" as a designator for stop, end and block separator.

UPC barcodes use three narrow bands on either end and in the center. All digits are encoded with 4 bands of various widths. (4 different widths, iirc) I believe that 6 is three size 2 bands followed by one size 1 band. (with sizes 1,2,3,4)

try to find a human-readable number 6 on a barcode

2 liter bottle of red fusion: 0 78000 08646 1

The whole 666 barcode thing is total and complete bullshit.

Re:if they knew EAN Codes

[Anonymous Coward]

Another point would be that daemon isn't just called that for a laugh - its a backronym (apparently thats a word) standing for Disk And Execution MONitor
again, a lot easier to argue for.

Bureaucracy

[borgasm]

The representative we spoke with said that someone within the County bureaucracy...

Maybe its just me, but when people refer to the government as "bureaucracy", it keeps giving me the feeling tax dollars aren't exactly going to the right places....

This is just the beginning

[Anonymous Coward]

The jackbooted thugs will be pushing us onto trains for violating thought-laws. You wait and see. Actually, why don't you check into NWO cattle boxcar trains outfitted with shackles for humans. Or perhaps look into why so many guillotines are being imported into the US. (Worth noting that death by guillotine preserves the organs for transplantation.)

Hey, don't forget Unix pseudoterminals

[Anonymous Coward]

Where would xterm be without that evil master pseudo terminal /dev/ptmx and its horde of slaves? All kept in a single directory, no less.

(BSD-derived Unix please ignore!)

Charge for it...

[Foxxz]

Sure, go ahead and change the labels. And charge 3 times more for everything your relabel. Make it not worth their money to do it.

-Foxxz

How far do you think this can be pushed?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll bet we can get the county to move to SCSI entirely if we point out that, even if they relabel their drives, the IDE bus protocol ensures that under heavy usage former slaves will be forced to the back of the bus!

Fed up with PC speak?

[pyite]

Orwell wrote an interesting piece entitled Politics and the English Language which shows how much more concerned people are with how things are said than successfully delivering the actual content of the message. It's an interesting read, check it out.

I fail to see what's "offensive" about it

[penguin7of9]

Seems to me the terminology is descriptive and easily understood. Why should the use of slavery as a semi-descriptive term for a particular technology be offensive?

We also have "dead man switches", "sacrificial electrode", "vampire taps", and "kill switches", and a lot of other terms in technology that refer to things that, when they happen between humans, are unacceptable. It seems to me that the use of such terms to describe the relationship between inanimate objects or even non-human animals does not mean endorsing those behaviors for humans.

Re:I fail to see what's "offensive" about it

[aXis100]

"dead man switches"

The "dead man" directly refers to the human part. When the (train) operator dies from a heart attack, they stop hitting the switch, and the device is stopped.

Re:I fail to see what's "offensive" about it

[gl4ss]

because some people just see the words, not the meaning. though even then i fail to see what's so offending about the word, so embarrassed of history perhaps, or trying to hide it? beats me. it doesn't even reference to the slavery that was used in usa in any way. and it's not like usa was the only place where real human slaves are/were in use.

heck, how about sexual master/slave scenarios?-)

Re:I fail to see what's "offensive" about it

[penguin7of9]

Of course. But the human part might be offended or disturbed by the fact that the engineers are making plans in case of his/her demise. And the usual situation for "dead man switches" to operate is probably when the human operator is distracted or careless, rather than dead.

Better be careful with that language. Perhaps it should be cause the "non-responsive operator detection circuitry".

Re:I fail to see what's "offensive" about it

[M. Baranczak]

And the usual situation for "dead man switches" to operate is probably when the human operator is distracted or careless, rather than dead.

"Stoned man switch"?

Book burners unite!

[Pedrito]

And while we're at it, let's burn any books that have the word master or slave in it. Dictionarys, Mark Twain, anything written by the founding fathers. Oh, and we'll definitely need to burn all the bibles too. Let's just pretend those words don't exist anymore.

Good, I'm glad to see LA County is moving forward into the 18th century.

Re:Book burners unite!

[catbutt]

If you are using the words to refer to the actual practice of slavery, obviously that is fine. Nobody is suggesting that slavery be forgotten about or not spoken of.

But if you are using the terms as metaphores for everyday things, it can make the concept of slavery seem more everyday and "ok". That's what might bother some people.

Re:Book burners unite!

[Pedrito]

Unfortunately, like many other words in English, these terms have multiple meanings, some of which have absolutely nothing to do with people owning other people.

We shouldn't use the word "hard drive" because it might be taken as a sexual reference. We shouldn't use "floppy disk" because, hell, that's practically a sexual reference. And hey, "monitor" is what masters do to slaves, so let's rename those too.

It's stupid. Anyone who tries to relate it to slavery has a very small mind and is trying to make something out of nothing.

hmmm.

[jlseagull]

I was rebuilding a test system where one could put two devices in a master/slave configuration. Both of them used an RS232 interface, and to tell the two apart: one was labeled "master" and made of white plastic, and the other was labeled "slave", upside down, and made of black plastic. I blinked once, then dismissed myself as a reactionary idiot.

Newsflash: SATA the drive of SATAn?

[Anonymous Coward]

AP: In an unprecedented move, the County of Los Angeles issued a mandate via email to all county-contracted vendors asking them to refrain from using any satanic devices.

"We would request that each manufacturer, supplier and contractor review, identify and remove/change any identification or labeling of equipment or components thereof that could be interpreted as satanic or morally or religiously offensive in nature before such equipment is sold or otherwise provided to any County department."

This is an apparent response to the blossoming prevalence of the new "SATA" (Serial ATA) standard interface for PC hard drives.

A representative from the LA County Purchasing and Contract Services division verified the validity of the email stating "We received one complaint from a CouncilPerson who was reading the features list of some new Dell servers the county bought. He/she read the description of the SATA hard drives to be "SATAN hard drives". Being a devout christian, he/she took offense to the obvious satanic wording and notified the city council, prompting an investigation."

motherboard

[Anonymous Coward]

The use of the word "motherboard" is stereotypical and derogatory to fathers. I am offended that computer makers think that only a "mother" board can have a close relationship with its "daughter" boards, which brings me to my next point: why are there no "son" boards. I hereby request the county to force computer manufacturers to use the terms fatherboard and sonboard, instead of motherboard and daughterboard 50% of the time, to be fair to fathers and sons everywhere. Please help bring American families together again.

thank you,

P

I have a solution...

[javacowboy]

How about:

Mistress/Slave?

There you go! Problem solved!

We all fail to see it.

[Anonymous Coward]

That's why every other post on this article is just making fun of L.A. County.

Oh, that's nothing...in San Francisco..

[The Breeze]

The San Francisco City Council recently passed Ordinance 2002-11-78b, which prohibits the sale or manufacture of pinouts and connectors that are exclusively "male" or "female".

Apparently, there were those who felt that having seperate male and female connectors was somehow discriminitory. In the words of Douglas Fillmore, spokesperson of a citizen's group that endorse that ordinance, "Technology, and our terminology that describes it does not only mirror life - it also helps guide it. By creating devices that can only be used in one method, to the exclusion of others, and to further use such value-laden terminology to describe them, sends a clear message that "there is only one accepted way to mate." This metaphor can be very injurous to groups we wish to show our support for."

So, go into a Radio Shack in San Fran and as for a male db25 pin connector. They'll sell you a connector that comes with a seperate mating collar, just incase you choose to mate it with another male. Or, if they're out of stock, they'll refer you to the Fry's Electronics in Oakland.

I'm just kidding. I hope no one believes this.

Re:Oh, that's nothing...in San Francisco..

[Anonymous Coward]

i knew it! i knew it was fake as soon as i read "Fry's Electronics in Oakland"... you sly devil, you. theres no fry's in the ohaykay!

Re:Oh, that's nothing...in San Francisco..

[BugZRevengE]

Bugger! - with the way things are going i was fooled for a minute there...
oh admit it you were too?

Re:Oh, that's nothing...in San Francisco..

[Lucky_Norseman]

The really scary part is that "I'm just kidding. I hope no one believes this." was necessary.
It could actually happen. Unless we start electing people who are closer connected to reality.

Re:Oh, that's nothing...in San Francisco..

[Anonymous Coward]

yes but you forgot to mention with every purchase you get a can of crisco.. San Francrisco...

Re:Oh, that's nothing...in San Francisco..

[scharkalvin]

I would expect that in SF radio shacks would sell 'gay' connectors! (er AC/DC connectors?)

Just out of spite for a stupid idea....

[jemenake]

This is probably going to get me totally flamed, even though I'm not a racist myself, but... Just for spite, I think it would be hillarious if the County IT techs started replacing all of the "Master/Slave" stickers with "Massa/Coon" ones. :)

Re:Just out of spite for a stupid idea....

[Anonymous Coward]

White Power for Master, Nigger for Slave

Call IDE cables Whips, call serial ata cables Lynch cables.

I fucking hate niggers now.
I wasn't racest until I read this article

Re:Just out of spite for a stupid idea....

[jafiwam]

And for the police stations in the bad part of town;

"Pimp/Ho"

Pimps and Bitches

[DeionXxX]

From now on... in LA County.. all hard drive configurations will now be referred to as being in the Pimp / Bitch configuration as illustrated by the following image here

-- D3X

Free of Clothes and Free Of Charge... the best thing since sliced bread.

I don't get it.

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't get it.

Re:I don't get it.

[Anonymous Coward]

SCSI is pronounced 'Scuzzy'

scuzzy (skz')
adj. Slang., -zier, -ziest.

Dirty; grimy: scuzzy floors.
Disreputable; sleazy: "ran a scuzzy operation" (Myra MacPherson).

[Possibly from blend of SCUM and FUZZ1.]

Re:I don't get it.

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL

Who modded this insightful??

Re:I don't get it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Some mods don't get it too. Gimme a break. *rolls eyes*

In the interests of equality..

[swordfishBob]

Drives should not be dominant and submissive. Nor should any other componentry (also consider Bus Mastering on PCI, or even USB requiring a host to master all devices).

No, all are equal. Any collection of devices with connection should either take turns making the decisions, or should hold a voluntary election where all devices have equal influence.

Of course, the devices "backed" by larger companies will have more money to campaign for votes from other devices.

The machines are taking over, and dang, the terminator has gone into politics...!

From here on out...

[SnprBoB86]

we should refer to the slave drive as the bitch drive.. thats nice and PC right?

Nazi drive Jew drive

[Anonymous Coward]

I am a regular typical registered republican. I am irish catholic and read this earlier today and thought...boy this is really going over board.

Sitting after dinner watching Fear Factor I saw this post and mention it to my wife and asked if she thought if was offensive. She is Italian/catholic. She does not work with computers and her eyes open wide when I told her. She could not believe someone would give those labels. I asked why and she said....what if they called it Nazi drive Jew drive....and immediately I understood.

My wife is one clever lady.

Just an interesting note that perhaps this was truly a poor choice and is indeed insensitive.

But puh-leeze...

[djeaux]

I take offense to this "swap" business, too! Even if you can do without it for a few minutes...

wtf??

[itallushrt]

I've gotta call BULLSHIT on this. Terms are only racist to morons who think that way to begin with.

What's next? Will black no longer to be used as an adjective? Will we no longer be available to describe cars as Alpine White or Pearl Black but instead Alpine Snow and Pearl whatever?

This is fucking rediculous.

Re:wtf??

[Anonymous Coward]

rIdiculous.

This could really get out of hand

[EriDay]

Imagine the vendor who realizes that he can get rich as the sole provider of drives to LA county. He removes all references to "Master" and "Slave" from the drive labeling. He does the same to the documentation, then sends them to the county. The PHB will think they've won.

The cost of IT for LA county just went up. Substantially.

HaHa!

[DrBytes]

THis is ridiculous..
Here in Europe America is just one big comedy show.

Re:HaHa!

[Anonymous Coward]

Hah in Europe your standard of living is about 1/3 of what mine is even though you make more money than I do and I actually own my home and vacation property.

More "correctly"...

[djeaux]

... methinks those who insist on political correctness must be loaded.

It's not just california.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not just california. Here in atlanta I wrote some software a few months ago to support replicated settings of our devices using master/slave terminology and was told to change the terminology for the user interface. to 'parent/child' terminology. which is silly because that's not accurate. a device configured as a slave (excuse me, child) will only accept commands from the master. and we all know children aren't that obedient

Re:It's not just california.

[Anonymous Coward]

And your're making the statement that all slaves.....listen to their master. Nice try, but your reasoning is substantially a racist remark.

Re:It's not just california.

[Anonymous Coward]

no, I would say you're substantially ignorant.

Merriam Webster says this about slave:

3 : a device (as the printer of a computer) that is directly responsive to another

And about child:
5 : one strongly influenced by another or by a place or state of affairs

eh eh. close but no cigar.

Re:It's not just california.

[Anonymous Coward]

Are we not talking about computer anymore? Oh, that's right we are. Computers are stupid they only do what you tell them to. Software/hardware protocols are the same way, they do exactly what they were programmed for. Master/slave is the corrct term. The controller chip on the Primary master drive controls the secondary slave, that's how the protocol works. Stop acting like such a pussy!

Random thoughts

[turg]

Random thoughts:

1) Words that have different meaning in the world of computers than they do elsewhere have long caused confusion and misunderstanding. This is not news.

2) When the computer-savvy laugh at others for this misunderstanding, it seems a little like a nasty trick. We change the meaning of common words and then laugh at you when it trips you up.

3) If such a misunderstanding were to occur in the case of master/slave, it should not be surprising that it may cause offence.

4) A buyer is free to make whatever demands they want of a vendor (and the vendor is free to say "we don't do that"). My definition of an outrageous demand is one that is impossible for the vendor to meet (e.g. impossible to do A for $B, or mutually exclusive requirements, or breaks the laws of physics or logic etc.). This does not meet that requirement. Vendors change their terminology for their clients all the time -- and usually for much more frivolous reasons than this.

Re:Random thoughts

[Hoi Polloi]

"A buyer is free to make whatever demands they want of a vendor"

Really? So my town can refuse to buy products from vendors that hire blacks?

Re:Random thoughts

[turg]

Okay, I was speaking only of the buyer-vendor relationship -- there are also other possible consequences.

In Other News...

[MBCook]

Letting California government officials breath has been deemed illegal by me, as I find their intelligence level offensive.

This is what happens when you cave in to political correctness. There is nothing wrong stopping people from using the "N" word to describe blacks, but when you start demanding to be called "Applachian Americans" (in fact, ANYTHING-Americas), your only inviting this kind of crud.

What about...

[MORTAR_COMBAT!]

Britney Spears' "Slave 4 U"? Is that banned now too? (If it made it this far...)

Re:What's wrong with you that you need to say slav

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree! As a Celtic-American whose ancestors were slaves of the Romans I am deeply offended not only at master/slaves references but also everything Italian.

Re:Hmm... replacement suggestions

[Anonymous Coward]

how bout king/serf? though maybe ancestors of serfs would take offense

I'm so happy to be alive

[Saint Stephen]

I mean it. Life is just so wonderful. Yay.

Re:No Master/Slave? Hell NO

[Anonymous Coward]

"So we should be calling them the Primary Primary drive?"

No grasshoppa but here is my quick and easy fix...

Primary MA
Primary SL
Seconndary MA
Secondary SL
Tertiary MA

I hereby declare my copyright and intent to patent this non obvious and non trvial solution to this egregious problem as well as any implementations that utilize different naming schemas or replace the words "Master" or "Slave" with alternative words or permutations. Any entities wishing to utilize this valuable and novel IP, may send a cheque in the amount of Fifty (50) Canadian (CND) Dollar bills to me.

Please email pingmeep@rogers.com for details on where to send the payola.

--

Husband/Wife

[TheLastUser]

Someone at university used Husband/Wife, his teacher (female) was not amused. So much for the A.

I was the one who wrote that...

[SlashChick]

What I meant by it is that I hadn't seen an example of political correctness applying to computer terms yet. Most of the time, I've seen it apply to classes of people, but from what I've seen, it hasn't really infiltrated the computer world.

I will now sit back and prepare to be assaulted by people who can show me otherwise. However, at least you now know what I was thinking. ;)

Re:I was the one who wrote that...

[Anonymous Coward]

"I will now sit back and prepare to be assaulted by people who can show me otherwise." Well, I don't have the intellectual prowess to show you otherwise, but I'm still going to assalt you! you loser! lamoid! I have better karma than you! I'm better looking!

Re:I was the one who wrote that...

[Anonymous Coward]

Why wont you acknowledge my cries for help?

Our tax dollars at work

[marderj]

Nice to see elected officials finally spending our tax dollars on something that matters. They usually just waste it on stupid crap like county services, fire, police, etc. Sheesh. It's a refreshing change to see our representatives attacking the real issues. Seriously, whatever asshole came up with idea is too stupid to hold a public office. Elected officials have a responsibility to the people. Such gross dereliction of duty should be rewarded with a tax-dollar-paid stay in the county jail. Idiot.

Re:No Master/Slave? Hell NO

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a resident of Primary, MA and your words sting me. Please never refer to my place of birth in such a callous manner. We sure don't want you making money at the expense of our town's beautiful name!

This isn't new.

[kaszeta]

Shows how patently ridiculous this story seemed at first.

Strangely, I didn't thin this was a farce, since I've lived through exactly this nonsense once before.

The year was 1993, and I was working as an intern at Oak Ridge National Laboratory in their High Flux Isotope Reactor. While I was there we got visited by the Secretary of Energy (Hazel O'Leary) and her "Science Advisor" Jim Hall (who later went on to chair the NTSB). The tour was notable for two reasons:

1. Jim Hall made a comment about how he was surprised that spent nuclear fuel assemblies from the reactor looked almost exactly like the new ones (aside from the inner and outer assemblies fresh out of the reactor, which were still glowing), since he thought "they'd look all black, like burnt wood."
2. A week later we got an official memo from Jim Hall, mentioning that during the visit "Hazel was disturbed by the use of the phrase 'Master/Slave Manipulator'" and suggested that "we shouldn't use that phrase anymore." I've still got a copy of this memo somewhere (along with the "radioactive frog" memo of some notoriety), if I find it I'll post a link to a scan as a followup.

Much lunchtime discussion over the next week resulted in a variety of alternative terminologies, including "master/bitch", "pimp/hoe", and "indentured servant." The last of these actually made it into some drawings, and the Powers That Be were not amused.

So no, I'm not surprised. Not one bit.

Re:This isn't new.

[aGuyNamedJoe]

I encountered a similar situation at Lucent Technologies around 2000. I don't remember the specifics, but as I think we were referring to master and slave processes and someone objected to the usage. We thought it was stupid, but we found another pair of terms.

On the other hand, we were sensitive to such issues -- they had a very effective Diversity program and working with folk from all over the world was part of what made it a great place to be -- at least in some divisions. Still, there were occasions, such as this one, when it seemed to go a bit farther than was really necessary.

Of course, that's history, since I opted for the Voluntary Retirement Program as things went into the tank.

Re:This isn't new.

[Anonymous Coward]

A number of years ago doing tech support I had to explain about the enabled and disabled folders in a Mac OS 7.5 system folder to a guy in a wheelchair who was sure I was making fun of him...

*sigh*

Sara

Re:This isn't new.

[Flower]

What? Nobody came up with Mistress/Slave? Or if that's still too close how about Dominatrix/Slave?

Certainly would spice up the diagrams if done properly.

Re:This isn't new.

[Schnapple]

Reminds me of a marginally related college story.

It would take too long to explain everything but suffice to say the Band I was in in College had a crew in public loading and unloading instruments from an 18-wheeler truck before a football game, and to get into things this crew (friends of mine, but I wasn't on the crew) had nicknames on their shirts. One was called "Gasmaster" because... he farted a lot. Was his trademark. Could peel paint and clear rooms with it. Another got the name "Gestapo" because he looked a little Aryan (white, blonde hair, blue eyes) and was mean as Hell.

The Band Director got an angry letter from an elterly Jewish woman who nearly had a heart attack when she saw "Gestapo" and the "Gasmaster" standing next to each other. He was going to make them change the names, but since this was sort of a one-time freak occurence in another state, he dropped it.

Re:This isn't new.

[Lord Ender]

These fuel rods get very hot, right? So even though they don't "burn" like wood, hot metal gets black through oxidation. I find it hard to believe he actually thought it "burned". So it is not all that silly of him.

Re:This isn't new.

[Daniel_Staal]

Or if that's still too close how about Dominatrix/Slave?

That would be Dominatrix (or just Dom, for dominate)/Sub.

Re:This isn't new.

[RussP]

I remember this Hazel O'Leary story from the "right-wing" talk radio. Apparently everybody else was "protected" from the news that our Secretary of Energy was an airhead.

Oh, by the way, during her tenure she managed to gut the security at our nuclear labs and de-classify 10,000,000 pages of nuclear research documents. Imagine how much money she saved Iran and North Korea!

Re:This isn't new.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Dom, for dominate)/Sub"

Well if you want to get all specific, it's Dom, for Dominant.. as in the noun. (Sub for submissive).

Dom/sub would make a great replacement, actually. It's short, and who'd complain? The BDSM community would probably love it. ;) Deviance in the name of PC'ism has a delicious irony, don't you think? ;D

Re:This isn't new.

[po8]

Just FYI, if any part of a fuel rod in a nuclear reactor oxidizes noticeably (due to heat or for any other reason), something has gone horribly, awfully wrong. The outsides are supposed to be essentially invisible, and you don't ever want the insides getting outside the outsides.

Re:This isn't new.

[po8]

s/invisible/invincible/. Sigh. I'm going to bed now.

Re:This isn't new.

[salesgeek]

Just be glad that Hazel was distracted by puffery like politically correcting your speech :) She could have really screwed things up if she applied that kind of attention to actual research.

Re:This isn't new.

[grgyle]

I had a similar "college T-shirt" experience. My roommate was a huge fan of the movie Real Genius, and had a custom T-Shirt made reading "I *heart* Toxic Waste" as in the film. In one of his classes, I witnessed him being verbally assaulted by a granola-breathed-sandal-slapper-chick (I'm not biased ;-) ) who actually thought that his T-Shirt was serious and that he did indeed support the "Toxic Waste Lobby", whatever that is. Later, he received a notice from his dorm advisor that, because of his public display of cultural insensitivity (wearing a T-Shirt), he would have to cease wearing the shirt or not be allowed to continue living in on campus housing. He went and had a "Nuke the Whales" T-Shirt made as a replacement. This was at the University of Washington, a school that has a reputation for obsessive kowtowing to every fringe opinion in the name of "cultural sensitivity", no matter how absurd or ridiculous.

Re:This isn't new.

[sowellfan]

My co-worker worked at Sandia in some classified lab, and he had some stories about that idiot Hazel O'Leary. She wanted access to a certain lab that required a very specific clearance that she didn't have. Evidently the decision on whether to let her in or not was up to the people in that department, so they decided to keep her out. She said she was going to lunch, and expected to have the proper clearance waiting for her when she got back. She returned from lunch and was refused entry once again.

Sometime after this incident was when she changed the security policy to get rid of security badges with specific colors clearly denoting which security clearances you had.

I just don't see how it helps race relations in the U.S. to put an idiot like that into an important office just because they're black and female.

Re:This isn't new.

[Havokmon]

The Band Director got an angry letter from an elterly Jewish woman who nearly had a heart attack when she saw "Gestapo" and the "Gasmaster" standing next to each other. He was going to make them change the names, but since this was sort of a one-time freak occurence in another state, he dropped it.

Ahh like when the band Slaughter came to town, the Hotel hosting them didn't want to put their names on the sign with the other conferences they hosted that weekend:

Wisconsin Pig Convention
and
Slaughter

Re:This isn't new.

[Anonymous Coward]

Think that's bad? I got taken to task by University of Michigan-Flint's "Campus Crusade for Christ" for wearing a shirt that said, "And God said..." *insert series of equations relating to the waveform of light* "... and there was light." Then, when the Planned Parenthood council was giving out free condoms and candy in U-Cen, I thought the CCC was going to burn me at the stake for taking a goddamn pack of skittles.

sort of like when....

[the_2nd_coming]

My mom got offended that Splenda was a left handed molecule of sugar, thinking that was just a willy-nilly term created as a way to say it is diffrent.

this Beurocrat is about as mis-informed.

get off your high horse

[ChipMonk]

Remember who used the term "white n---ers" on national TV? It certainly wasn't a Republican. Your own partisan bigotry doesn't help your cause.

Next up: Viagra users suing...

[rarose]

because the term "hard drive" makes them feel inferior.

Perhaps middle age women taking offense at the term "floppy disk"...

Freedom Fries?

[FsG]

Gee, this feels a lot like the whole "Freedom Fries" ordeal from a few years back. Once again, an ignorant politician tries to ban a word (of all things) because they don't happen to like the laymen's meaning and don't realize that there are other meanings associated with it.

French Fries, for example, have nothing to do with the country and everything to do with "Frenching," a method of cooking that involves cutting the food into small strips (look it up if you don't believe me.)

P.S. Would you like some freedom with those fries? (Sorry, couldn't resist)

Re:Freedom Fries?

[Hoi Polloi]

Good point. Orwellian manipulation of the language isn't limited to any single ideology. I think people need to regain their perspective, they've become too sensistive.

One example is one too many

[Hogwash McFly]

Being a resident of England (or should I say 'United Kingdom' in order not to alienate my Irish/Welsh/Scottish compatriates?) I have seen more than a lions share of political correctness. It seems like every week that I open up the newspaper to find a half amusing/half irritating article written about a particular group of people who seem to have a beef with the way they are 'labelled'.

Example Old Age Pensiors (OAPs) - 'We are offended by the name given us and see it as ageist. Therefore we would like to be known as Senior Citizens' (um, cause that doesn't refer to your age?)

I'm sure everyone out there in /.dom has has experienced the mailman/mailperson debacle.(milkman, garbage man etc. are all also valid)
Hey while we're at it, why not plurally refer to ourselves as Personkind! One small step for a person, one person-of-irregular-height leap for Personkind!

And it doesn't stop at there! A school in this banned sportsday because it is deemed as unfair to those who don't win. Aww boohoo so your little snotty kid lost the egg and spoon race, we better give 'em all a medal, cause 'EVERYONE'S A WINNER!'

Mothercare have, or were going to, release an updated version of Humpty Dumpty in which the poor egg shaped fellow was put back together and lived happily ever after in order to protect children from a perilous dilemma. I know I'm taking this political correctness thread off on a bit of a mollycoddle tangent, but they're all related to one thing - The Bubble Wrapped Society.

Re:One example is one too many

[DunbarTheInept]

Example Old Age Pensiors (OAPs) - 'We are offended by the name given us and see it as ageist. Therefore we would like to be known as Senior Citizens' (um, cause that doesn't refer to your age?)

Uhm, that one is a problem because it assumes that age must be mentioned in the context of pensions. That someone is old does not require that they are retired and drawing a pension, and thus if you assume "pension" whenever you see someone old, you are using an innaccurate term. It's not the political correctness that's a problem with that term. It's the factual correctness.

The rest of the stuff you said I agree is a problem.

Re:One example is one too many

[FrostedWheat]

Being a resident of England (or should I say 'United Kingdom' in order not to alienate my Irish/Welsh/Scottish compatriates?)

Your a resident of both, in the same way your a resident of whatever county you live in. So saying your a resident of England is not alienating anyone else in the UK because when you say England you mean it. As opposed to those who live outside the UK who refer to the whole UK as England.

urg.. I'm rambling ... need breakfast ...

Re:One example is one too many

[Hobbex]

'We are offended by the name given us and see it as ageist. Therefore we would like to be known as Senior Citizens'

'I am disgusted with the way old people are depicted on television. We are not all vibrant, fun-loving sex maniacs. Many of us are bitter, resentful individuals, who remember the gold old days when entertainment was bland and inoffensive.'

Re:One example is one too many

[Walterk]

What about the recent protests of dwarfs, claiming it is a racist term. They prefer to be referred to as "Restricted Growth People". They even came to the House of Commons.

I wonder when they'll sue Disney. "Snowmulticoloured and the 7 restricted growth people".

Re:One example is one too many

[Anonymous Coward]

Example Old Age Pensiors (OAPs) - 'We are offended by the name given us and see it as ageist. Therefore we would like to be known as Senior Citizens'

I think I'd be more offended by the penis part than the old part.

Re:One example is one too many

[Cska Sofia]

(or should I say 'United Kingdom' in order not to alienate my Irish/Welsh/Scottish compatriates?)

*cough* Northern Irish.

Carry on!

Re:One example is one too many

[Tackhead]

> Mothercare have, or were going to, release an updated version of Humpty Dumpty in which the poor egg shaped fellow was put back together and lived happily ever after in order to protect children from a perilous dilemma.

That's just fucking sad.

The whole point of Humpty Dumpty is to teach a kid that Some Mistakes Can't Be Undone with a kind word and a moronic lecture about diversity.

(And when the kid is a little older, it can be used to teach him about denatured protein and why you can't unscramble an egg.)

Re:One example is one too many

[mpe]

I'm sure everyone out there in /.dom has has experienced the mailman/mailperson debacle.(milkman, garbage man etc. are all also valid)

In many cases the "man" suffix actually derives from "manus" which means "hand". One of the most abused is "chairman" which is actually gender neutral. The gendered versions being "mr chairman" and "madam chairman".

Hey while we're at it, why not plurally refer to ourselves as Personkind! One small step for a person, one person-of-irregular-height leap for Personkind!

Or you could just write "'mankind" and say it's short for "humankind".

Re:One example is one too many

[Sri Ramkrishna]

I as a hindu, am APPALLED that you would use the word BEEF in my presence. You insensitive clod!

sri

Re:One example is one too many

[eaolson]

Hey while we're at it, why not plurally refer to ourselves as Personkind! One small step for a person, one person-of-irregular-height leap for Personkind!

Because, you sexist pig, that's offensive to female children everywhere. The polite term is perchildkind.

(With apologies to Berkley Breathed.)

Invalid command

[rufusdufus]

Rember when DOS gave the message "Invalid command" if you typed garbage at the command prompt? An astounding number of people complained because they thought the computer was calling them an "in-vuh-lid" and took great offense to it. MS had to change that and several other messages in order to keep certain large accounts.

Re:Invalid command

[Anonymous Coward]

Man, are some people ever stupid.

This happened in 1985 (maybe early 1986)

[jmcnamera]

I was just out of school at Data General (minicomputers) in 1985 and we were told to stop calling the paired CPU's for a fault tolerant system master-slave.

We started calling it Father-Son, but someone complained again so soon it was Mother-Daughter.

Fortunately, the FT portion of the project was cancelled and we were able to get on with things.

Frankly, I thought master-slave was obnoxious. However it just kept going, there were other names as well that kept getting squashed.

Re:This happened in 1985 (maybe early 1986)

[praedor]

"Master" and "Slave" is not obnoxious. It is absolutely descriptive. One CPU or harddrive is the master from which all other CPUs or drives are subservient to, controlled by, deferred to. One is the lead and all others are followers. One is top dog, the others aren't.

Master and slave has been around in human social forms for a LOT longer than the ole white master, black slave crap came along. Blacks in Africa have been both master and slave in their histories, as have virtually every other people through history. Greeks, Romans, Celts, Africans, Chinese, Japanese, etc, etc, have acted as master and been slaves at various points in their histories. At some/many times, the relationship was rather good (with the "slave" being something of a well-treated, though captive, guest of sorts).

I am offended that some crazy whites and blacks in the USA attempt to control the entire meaning and history of the terms "master" and "slave" so that it can ONLY refer to the specific form this relationship took in recent US history. As if there is only one meaning for the terms, as if they have a monopoly on their meaning and use.

History and simplicity are bigger than any minority group, be they crazy whites flagellating themselves, or over-sensitive blacks flagellating everyone around them over nonsense.

Get over it and get over yourselves.

Real Estate, Too

[Anonymous Coward]

My last agent mentioned that their office had been to a training seminar where it was recommended that they no longer refer to the "master bedroom". You're supposed to call it the "main" bedroom now, to avoid offending anyone.

Re:What's wrong with you that you need to say slav

[Anonymous Coward]

It is clearly offensive to anyone who has any sense of history and even more so to those who have had ancestors enslaved.

Don't be ridiculous. The reference is obviously to 20th Century sex games ...

slavery and racism are not synonymous

[polished look 2]

The term "slave" is commonly used in the scriptures, e.g.

When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. (Rom 6:20-22)

In these cases its about being enslaved to something or someone (the master) and has nothing whatsoever to do with the color of a person's skin.

Re:slavery and racism are not synonymous

[loraksus]

oh no. You mentioned the bible.
You're infringing on my non-denominational beliefs that may exist, may not exist or can not be determined!!
I demand you have your post removed.

Re:slavery and racism are not synonymous

[smchris]

"Leviticus 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations that are around us. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans but not Canadians. Can you clarify?"

From a popular list of things Leviticus found at
http://www.gly.uga.edu/railsback/Leviticus1.ht ml

Re:slavery and racism are not synonymous

[KD5YPT]

If you don't like it, mod him down. But I could bet someone will Meta-mod you down for modding him down. This is a public forum, it's a place for freedom of speech. So don't complain, just accept someone got a different religion view then you.

Re:slavery and racism are not synonymous

[Anonymous Coward]

Joke. Repeat after me. J-O-K-E. Joke. He was kidding. Writing sarcastically...

Oh, nevermind...

Re:slavery and racism are not synonymous

[Anonymous Coward]

You can buy slaves only if you are one of the Jewish chosen people...

Re:slavery and racism are not synonymous

[broken.data]

TIme to burn some karma, but the new governor might have something to do with it.

Re:slavery and racism are not synonymous

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you kidding? The bible is inherently racist ("chosen people" and all that) and is full of animal sacrificies and other practices that we would consider "barbaric" today. I'm pretty sure there is "our race is better than your race" type slavery in the bible as well. Regardless of anyones religious beliefs, its hard to hold the bible up as an example of slavery != racisim.

Hmm

[Anonymous Coward]

So since definitions of words can never change, by your argument - in other words, you think that, even though "master" and "slave" have come to have technical, non-political, non-racial definitions (see Oxford English Dictionary) - then presumably you think the definition of "marriage" also should not change. After all, marriage originally meant the joining of a man and a woman for the purpose of founding a family. Therefore, to change the word marriage to now include homosexuals would be wholly inappropriate. Apparently, words can never evolve or be recognized to have new meaning; is that correct?

Further, master and slave, even in reference to people, doesn't necessarily mean black and white, nor does it necessarily even refer to American slavery. And for those in this day and age, in the year 2003, to whom the first imagery upon hearing "master/slave" is "over 200 years of institutionalized, legal American slavery", then they're part of their own problem. And it's that kind of liberal guilt and misplaced intellectual ivory-towerism on your part that keeps people oppressed in this country.

Re:Hmm

[Anonymous Coward]

Therefore, to change the word marriage to now include homosexuals would be wholly inappropriate.

Of course it would. Homosexuals should be allowed to join in whatever fashion they wish, but why in the world would it make sense to call their union "marriage"? I have no objection to the law recognizing such unions (to be precise, I have no more objection to it than I do to the law's recognition of traditional marriages) but I don't see why we need to overload a perfectly serviceable word with additional meanings so that we have to start tacking on qualifiers (like 'traditional') just to be able to say what we mean.

Why is it that homosexuals insist on trying to apply the traditional terms to their non-traditional arrangements? Are they really so insecure and unsure of their own choices that they require constant validation by society? Sometimes it seems as if they're not content to simply live their lives the way they like, but also feel a need to get the rest of us to reassure them that we think their lifestyle is "right".

Maybe heterosexuals should start pushing to get homosexuals to validate the "rightness" of *our* lifestyle.

Back to the topic: Yes, words change their meanings over time. That doesn't mean, however, that it makes sense to go around gratuitously re-defining their meanings. Look up "humpty dumpty language".

WTF? Every damn house in LA has a "master bath"

[Anonymous Coward]

What are they going to do about that? Rip out the jacuzzis from all the Hollywood mansions?

In other news

[Anonymous Coward]

The City Council of Charleston, South Carolina, has passed a resolution requiring all vendors to use their preferred massa/boy terminology.

It /is/ offensive, you insensitive clods.

[Anonymous Coward]

I imagine just about anybody of any ethnicity might be offended by a reference to master/slave.
Now quit whining and get back to work.

Re:It /is/ offensive, you insensitive clods.

[Anonymous Coward]

Gee-wiz, I guess your right. I'm just a white devil, cracker. What do I know?

Re:It /is/ offensive, you insensitive clods.

[bxc t]

Why is it so hard for people of dominant class positions/subjectivities to imagine alternate perspectives.. Can you people not imagine that yes this could actually be really offensive? I don't understand why being tolerant and accommodating difference is so threatening (see volume of response to this subject -- the modded up items at any rate).. .

Re:It /is/ offensive, you insensitive clods.

[toriver]

You mean, unlike your use of "insensitive clods" which certainly cannot be offensive...

How tolerant is tolerant? Every religion is inherently intolerant since it implicitly claims other religions are wrong - should religions be banned?

Simple workaround

[broberds]

Don't say "Master/Slave". Say "Master/Shake".

Re:Nazi drive Jew drive

[Anonymous Coward]

What if they called Italian/catholics Spic/Bible bashers? Would you mind not using the term Italian/catholic some people are sensitive.

What's Next?

[Psx29]

Actually I could see them forcing a name change of "Unix"

Lets just really upset them

[Anonymous Coward]

Instead of calling them master and slave, why not color code the master white and the slave black??

Replacement suggestion

[ifwm]

ACLU/Liberal

Fuck political correctness!

[DigiShaman]

Seriously. From this day forward, I will make GOD DAMN sure that I never say anything that would be politically correct. So if you niggas have a problem with that, you can take it up with this white cracka. Bitchlap and out

Re:Fuck political correctness!

[el-spectre]

There's a difference between political correctness (dumbass term) and using racial slurs. The former is an overreaction to a potential slight, the latter is an attempt to offend.

And yeah, I know it was probably for effect.

Re:Fuck political correctness!

[DunbarTheInept]

How about you show up the political correctness camp by using ACTUAL ENGLISH. Using made up slang is the same problem as using made up politicaly correct terms - it's an instance of artificially deliberately warping the language instead of sitting back and letting it happen on its own.

Re:Fuck political correctness!

[runlvl0]

Seriously. From this day forward, I will make GOD DAMN sure that I never say anything that would be politically correct. So if you niggas have a problem with that, you can take it up with this white cracka. Bitchlap and out

Herbert? Herbert Kornfeld, is that you?

Re:Fuck political correctness!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, right. You'd get in trouble for saying niggard. (And I knew what that meant long before I read the snopes article.)

Re:Fuck political correctness!

[mpe]

There's a difference between political correctness (dumbass term) and using racial slurs. The former is an overreaction to a potential slight, the latter is an attempt to offend.

Except that the former can easily be both.

Re:Fuck political correctness!

[Dread_ed]

Political correctness is actually this,

terminology or language of or conforming to a political agenda.

In other words, it is actually people calling attention to something that is not a slight, then callig it a slight, and then using the engineered fervor to gain control or influence, or to gain publicity for their political platform.

In other words it is creating a false issue in an attempt to get people all riled up so that there will be an audience where there was none. Once the audience is in place you make your "statement."

Regardless, it is a vile and arrogant practice that exploits not only those who are forced into constraints that are unreasonable, but also exploits those who are the subject matter of the issue.

Worker and Parasite

[s20451]

My vote is for Worker and Parasite.

Endut! Hoch hech!

The real question...

[bobthemuse]

The real question is, who on earth exposed a bureaucrat to technical terms? Seriously, I don't explain beyond "press this button to turn it on".

Sexual connotations aside...argh!

Die Bold-ly where no Die has Bolded Before

[jefu]

But if they use Diebold electronic voting machines (probably TM) the outcome of the elections will probably be determined in odd and interesting ways - potentially leading to electrical ... ur, um, electoral lockout.

Once again

[Anonymous Coward]

Leftists use political correctness to stifle free speech.

Jumper

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh crap, does the colour of the jumper on the drive matter too?

Re:Jumper

[Anonynnous Coward]

A black jumper on white pins would send the wrong message to the inner-city youth, I think.

Ultimate Stupidity

[Nonillion]

I just hate too see my tax dollars being spent to pass such crap. I guess the next step would be to change ALL the words in the English language that could be even remotely used in a derogatory manner.

I guess the LA County officials got their hands on some good smoke, crack or what ever else it is they're on.

Flip Flops

[norkakn]

How do they expect any computers if one isn't allowed master slave latches? I know that most flip flops aren't exactly set up like that, but still, it seems like a silly cause.

oh well..

[Suppafly]

They'll just abreviate it m and s and claim it stands for some other words.

A Spin

[jefu]

Probably more of a good spin. So to speak.

Think it through: Noam Chomsky's response

[bstadil]

Think about what your are saying.

I recently heard Noam Chomsky respond to a comment like yours. He said that this woud be the same as saying to Alexander Solzhenitsyn that since he didn't like the regime in USSR he should just leave.

If he had maybe we would still be in the thralls of the Cold War.

Re:Think it through: Noam Chomsky's response

[Anonymous Coward]

Noam Chomsky is a Zionist.
What more do we need to know other than Zionism is racisism.

So are we supposed to be imressed with who you choose to look up to?

Anti-zionism is not anit-semitism either see Alfred Lienthal and his discussion of "greater Isreal."

hmmm...

[Anonymous Coward]

Front of the bus, back side bus...I know there is a joke here somewhere.

If only I could tie IRQs to voting rights...`

Story Completely Wrong!

[Manip]

They have not BANNED the word, that means one thing. Not allowed by law, that is not the case at all. Maybe someone should check their facts and try not to hype up stories like this!

all i can say to this garbage is

[darklingchild]

jesus f'ing christ.
go stick a niggardly accountant's schlong in your ear, and take your politically correct garbage back to mexico where it belongs. damn LA beaners...

As a former LA County Resident

[rjamestaylor]

As a former LA County resident and current Orange County resident all I can say is that I'm glad to hear LA has solved all the other problems is was facing.

Re:BOOK THE NEXT FLIGHT AND LEAVE, LIBERAL SISSY!

[jefu]

And, I feel compelled to note, an "Anonymous Coward".

It is insensitive (and poor) terminology

[dnquark137]

I've dealt with plenty of hard drives in my life, and it still disturbs me a bit. The combination "Master/Slave" evokes negative emotions, because we all know the injustices and suffering inflicted by one group on another.

A lot of people will not make the connection, but to many other, it's an unpleasant concept to bring up, and they will be disturbed and offended. To them, "Master/Slave" would be the same as, say, "Hitler/Jews" for others.

Plus, the terminology isn't as clear as, say, "master/subordinate". Non-geeks will likely be thrown off way more by "master/slave" than by another choice of terms. And while all of them might be thinking "WTF??" as they read the label next to the drive's jumpers, black people have every reason to be pissed about it.

Re:It is insensitive (and poor) terminology

[slavemowgli]

I'm not so sure about that - labelling drives "Hitler/Jew" would be another thing entirely, since it wouldn't convey any actual meaning. "Master" and "slave" is an accurate description insofar as the Master drive is the one that controls, while the slave drive is the one that is controlled. I do understand that some people have negative associations with those words, but that's, IMO, a personal problem more than anything else, just like taking offense at words like "niggardly" is a nothing but a personal problem.

Re:It is insensitive (and poor) terminology

[DA-MAN]

> black people have every reason to be pissed about it.

Black people aren't the only ones who have been slaves.

Re:It is insensitive (and poor) terminology

[dnquark137]

"Niggardly" predates the negative connotations now associated with how the word sounds. People who have a problem with it are completely irrational. Just like it's stupid to advocate deprecating the word out of the language, it's stupid to advocate getting rid of well-rooted technical terminology. My main point is that there's a number of terms one could have used in the first place to communicate the notion of controller/controlled without anyone being upset.

If someone were to propose similar terminology today, it just wouldn't fly. A few decades back, it did, and it's here to stay. That still doesn't mean that it was the best choice of terminology.

Re:It is insensitive (and poor) terminology

[Anonymous Coward]

Lets just call it Corporation/consumer...err...wait that doesn't abbreviate well.

Re:It is insensitive (and poor) terminology

[cloudmaster]

They're the only ones who are still complaining 150 years later, though.

Re:It is insensitive (and poor) terminology

[Anonymous Coward]

How else are they supposed to get anywhere? There's only so many teams in the NBA and only so many gangsta rappers you can have out there at once.

Give me a break

[Anonymous Coward]

This is lame. No company needs to serve LA county. If every company said "screw you LA- we as a whole have a monopoly", they'd be screwed. What's next- does El Tolito mock Mexicans? Is Tux offensive to the clothing industry? These people have too much time on their hands. They could use some porn. If the guy who complained is reading, (explictive deleted) YOU!!!!

I would dearly love to see

[Gojira Shipi-Taro]

Hard drive manufacturers send a letter reading "Good luck buying hard disks for your computers" together with a statue of a hand flipping the bird to the county government.

Fuck Political Correctness sideways with a bandsaw.

Another Alternative

[Anonymous Coward]

How about CowboyDrive/IndianDrive...

Maybe that is better.

Automobiles next?

[future assassin]

Master and Slave cylinders on brakes.

While we're on the subject

[VirtuaKnight]

Someone should talk to these guys about banning the terms "Microsoft" and "Windows"

Missing the Obvious

[akahige]

The thing that no one has yet commented upon -- and the thing which makes all of this even sillier and more moot (if that's possible) -- is what's going to happen when all of these vendors simply ignore this stupid memo? What's LA County going to do, refuse to contract with these thick-headed, insensitive troglodytes? Refuse to buy their products? In the case of drive manufacturers that doesn't exactly give LA County a wide range of alternative sources, now does it?

And in the case of documentation, perhaps we should just come up with a XML filter that switches terminology from normal readable text into PC-babble. It'd make a great ongoing document versioning contract... and if LA County complains then we can heap loads of negative press upon them claiming that they really don't have any interest in being a beacon of sensitivity...

Next spring...

[mishehu]

We'll just have to wait for Passover so that all slave drives will be freed from the evil Master drives... Will Charleton Heston play Moses this time?

Fascists, now...on the left?

[WheelDweller]

It's not a Christmas play, it's a Winter Celebration. He's not short, he's height-challenged.

I grew up in a world where the left were protecting babies, blacks, impoverished, women, pretty much everyone. But what's happened?

Now the left wants abortion, even at birth-time. (the so-called partial birth thing.)

Black groups only stand in front of cameras for black people who don't/won't work, but ignore hard-working black men defending their home turf with legal (in Florida, from which he moved) handguns.

Women's groups are no longer about discovering and solving earnings-based problems in the women's workplace, but instead are there now just to hate men and tell women it's ok to be lesbian.

The impoverished? Well, those roles have declined a lot from the 60's and 70's...so there's less to do. But when anyone wants to do it, it's giving homeless men warm places to do their drugs- not telling them they can have a house as long as they're clean.

Now this master-slave thing.

Does it get any sillier? Has everyone forgotten how bad things used to be, and the original goals of these various groups?

And they have the GALL to call conservatives Fascists!

(Does water run uphill yet? I haven't checked.)

Oh come on

[The Tyro]

Is that all you have to say? A poisonous, unsubstantiated little screed about how republicans are all racists and try to keep the black folks away from the polls?

KKK == CCC? Police conspiracies to set up roadblocks?

I'm sorry, but that's exactly 100% Flamebait.

Re:Oh come on

[Anonymous Coward]

The crazy part is that this fool will go out on election day, find no roadblocks and proclaim that he had a hand in giving blacks voter equity.

What an idiot.

Re:Oh come on

[Anonymous Coward]

You apparently don't live in the South do you?

Re:Oh come on

[Jack Auf]

Well, at least in Florida, yes.

Florida governor Jeb Bush and Florida secretary of state Kathleen Harris illegally removed tens of thousands of eligible Democratic voters from the voting rolls by wrongly claiming they were felons, who Jeb Bush declared are not allowed to vote. In fact virtually none were felons, and anyway Bush was wrong: reformed felons can vote in Florida. Why did they do it? A large percentage of the people targetted by Bush and Harris were Democrats. What they did was against Florida election laws and the election officials had informed they were breaking those laws. But to ensure that Democrats wouldn't vote, Harris then also avoided counting over 100,000 ballots from mainly black-dominated (usually Democratic) counties. The end result of this caper was Jeb's brother G.W. Bush being wrongly declared President, and the democratic process being subverted.

Harris and the Bushes were aided in their misdoings by the company that had been contracted to provide "scrub lists", which identify which citizens aren't allowed to vote--this company it turns out made essentially no effort to verify that people on the lists they were providing were not allowed to vote, and made apparently deliberate errors in misidentifying voters, such as wrongly matching a hypothetical felon who recently moved to FL from Georgia named Eric J Jones to Floridian non-felon Erica L Jones, preventing Erica from voting. Social security numbers were not used for matching. Although the Floida legislature has since passed a law requiring that Harris not use a private company to produce scrub lists, she has deliberately broken that law and hired a company anyway.

Source: The Best Democracy Money Can Buy, by investigative reporter Greg Palast.

Re:Oh come on

[someguy42]

Source: The Best Democracy Money Can Buy [amazon.com], by investigative reporter Greg Palast. Sounds more like the best Imagination money can buy. Seriously, you left-winger $#!+s with your extreme anti-republican conspiracy theories are bigger crackpots than the Area 51'ers and the 2'nd gunman-ers. Wake up to reality, folks.

Re:Oh come on

[Anonymous Coward]

No really, please don't bother responding to the acusations, just throw off some random insult and go away. It'll really help to educate everyone if you do that.

Walrus/Carpenter

[Trejkaz]

Primary Walrus
Primary Carpenter
Secondary Walrus...

oh man

[maxdamage]

No offence to any californian slashdoters, but I wouldent expect anything less to come from a population that elected Arnold their governer.

Re:oh man

[Simple-Simmian]

No man you got it wrong.
This is from the Californians who didn't elect Arnold their governor.
They will very be happy to tell you that Grey Davis had his "election stolen" by a "vast right wing conspiracy" and they didn't vote for him.
Take a look at this map.
That sould explain quite a bit. California isn't LA county or the Bay Area.

Yet another reason...

[John.Thompson]

to use SCSI...

Let's hope they don't start looking at code...

[BeBoxer]

Somethings tells me these might not go over too well either:

#define SIGABRT 6 /* Abort (ANSI). */
#define SIGKILL 9 /* Kill, unblockable (POSIX). */

But being California, I suppose this one's fine:
#define SIGTERM 15 /* Termination (ANSI). */

Re:Let's hope they don't start looking at code...

[Trejkaz]

Nah, that's easy. Just rename SIGABRT to SIGCOATHNGRNBCKT.

Not that bad...

[xSquaredAdmin]

LA County now requires that vendors working with the county remove all 'master/slave' references.

They said vendors who are working with the county, not all vendors in the county.

Industrial networks

[bobpence]

Many industrial networks, e.g. PROFIBUS and DeviceNet, use the Master-Slave terminology, and it makes sense in those cases. Since there is a large amount of installed equipment that may only be minimally labeled (M and S, MA and SL, much like many hard drives), changing the terminology would be difficult. Any future documentation would have to at a minimum acknowledge the old terms (e.g. index entry "Master - see xyz").

The easiest transition would allow the most common abbreviations to continue to be meaningful. Of course this can all be dismissed as foolish, but it would be nice not to have to dicuss forever.

Ok Then

[krray]

God bless and welcome to ... America.

Ok then. PRIMARY / SECONDARY.

Are they happy now? See we can always figure out a way to afro-american engineer something.

Umm...

[rmohr02]

Isn't that free speech? Of course, the amendments don't apply to LA County.

WRONG, LIB!

[Anonymous Coward]

I LOVE our beautiful country, I love God and I 100% stand behind what our president and government does! If you don't, you're probably not a patriot and don't deserve to be living in the best country on earth! L-E-A-V-E N-O-W

-- A proud patriot and Republican voter

Re:WRONG, LIB!

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, I talked it through with them, and your country and I agree that you're a freak. So why don't you go get yourself an education?

Re:WRONG, LIB!

[Anonymous Coward]

if you love god and america that much, why not strap a bomb on your ass and go blow up some of those evil terrorists?

it'd probably make a lot more difference than raving like a lunatic on slashdot.

Wha?

[Trejkaz]

There are racial implications? Surely thinking there are is a racist act in itself.

Honestly, who wastes their time making this crap?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nuff said.

a proposal

[commodoresloat]

Remember how the generic pronoun "he" was considered sexist, and now we're supposed to write the contraction "s/he" to mean "she or he"? Well, it's pretty clear that this discriminates against nongendered species as well as inorganic objects. Thus I propose the written contraction "s/h/it" to mean "she, he, or it." I'll contact the LA County supervisors right away with my proposal.

Re:a proposal

[xjerky]

Goddamn it, I never seem to have mod points when I want them......

Good one!

Re:a proposal

[Gandalf21]

So for all the sed/vi lovers out there, you plan on replacing 'h' with 'it'?!!! Witat tite itell?

Re:a proposal

[QuantumFlux]

Perhaps "he-or-she-or-it" could just be shorted to "HOrShIt"...

Re:a proposal

[norsk_hedensk]

shit hit or it.

Re:a proposal

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, let's see now...

"Is it master or slave?"
"dunno, try jumper"
"Hmm...jumper in the middle...looks like slave"
"if you want it to be the master, then don't jumper"
"but if I don't jumper, it won't work!"
"Oh man! this sucks. Why won't it be master?"
"Why can't it be slave?"
"No more room for any more slaves...all taken"
"Man! I hate this master-slave crap. Why can't I just daisy chain it?"
"Daisy chain? For this? Are you OK?"
"I just want it to work!"
**Time passes***
"There! it's working!! I'm a genius"
"You da bossman!"
"2 Masters and 2 slaves working together in perfect harmony! YEAH! Now let's hope Windows figures it out..." :)

Re:a proposal

[Anonymous Coward]

I am not a he-she!

Re:a proposal

[zoeblade]

Remember how the generic pronoun "he" was considered sexist, and now we're supposed to write the contraction "s/he" to mean "she or he"? Well, it's pretty clear that this discriminates against nongendered species as well as inorganic objects.

Um, there are intersexed and also intergendered people in our species too, you know. Hence the need (in my opinion, at least) for non-gender-specific pronouns: to include everyone in speech, not just those that fit into the gender dichotomy.

There are several sets of non-gender-specific pronouns at various stages of popularity. A useful essay is cached here.

And please note that I'm not suggesting anyone should be forced into using such pronouns, it's just that I personally use them in my day to day life to try and be inclusive. I wouldn't get offended if someone calls me "she" or "he" (which does happen), but probably would be offended at being called "it".

I hope that helps.

Re:a proposal

[shaitand]

That is funny. But on a side note, and I'm usually the last one you'd here this from. S/he is blatant improper English. If I were a professor and you handed me a paper filled with those I'd flunk you back to grade school English. The male terms are genderless when used in a generic sense in the english language. Just like the term mankind does NOT merely refer to the guys but all human beings.

Re:a proposal

[awol]

Dont you mean s/h/e/it

Re:a proposal

[Haeleth]

I fail to see how "human" and "person" are preferable to "man" in any case, since they still contain gendered elements. Ignoring silly suggestions like "perchild" (which is ageist in any case), and speciesist terms like "entity" (Tolkien fans will understand that one), the only real option is "being". And I'm sure a suitably trained feminist could find something objecionable in that too.

Re:a proposal

[DavidTC]

Being is tensist, it implies you are currently existing, aka, 'being'. It doesn't include our rich heritage of people who do not currently exist.

Re:a proposal

[Arysh]

I've actually had a highschool teacher use that, though it wasn't intentional ;) She was trying to say he/she/it and it just kind of combined as she was speaking, resulting in much amusement for us immature students. Of course, the alternate solution to avoid giggling schoolchildren is to just force everyone to rearrange their sentences. Good old passive voice -- another thing that English teachers hate ;)

Re:a proposal

[Anonymous Coward]

The Spivak variant reminds me too much of everything 2, therefore I will not give it a second thought.

Re:a proposal

[|/|/|||]

I agree. "He" and "him" can be gender neutral, as in the sentence:

"If I was an English professor and somebody misspelled 'hear,' I wouldn't flunk him but I'd at least mark him down."

;)

Re:a proposal

[guiscard]

i doubt they'll listen, nongendered species and inorganic objects dont vote.

Truth is stranger than fiction

[unassimilatible]

Will we not be able to have male and female ends on our 1/4" audio cable for fear of offending the transgendered?

Courtesy of yesterday's opinionjournal.com Best of the Web Today (which also reported on the master/slave controversy):

Meanwhile, the Chicago Maroon reports the University of Chicago is facing a problem with students who aren't potty-trained. Nate Claxton, who appeared on a panel at the university's Center for Gender Studies, said that, in the Maroon's words, he "knew people who had contracted bladder infections because choosing a gender bathroom bothered them so much that they did not go to the bathroom all day." Here are some more highlights from the panel:

Members of Feminist Majority, Queers & Associates, and the Center for Gender Studies organized the panel as part of the Coalition for a Queer Safe Campus. "Going to the bathroom is a moment where definition is very important in choosing a door," said Mary Anne Case, one of the panelists.

She pointed out that many women's restrooms have a caricature of a person in a dress on it. "Going into it implies that we are willing to be associated with that image. There are only two [images] to choose from. This moment involves an act of self-labeling."

The feminists, "queers" and gender studiers want unisex bathrooms:

Ana Minyan, the moderator of the panel, said that bathrooms will be called gender-neutral, rather than co-ed, because, "this terminology is generally used to refer to two sexes while the gender-neutral tends to be associated with more diversity and fluidity within the sex-gender continuum. As our aim is to make everyone, no matter what their gender and/or sexual persona is, more comfortable, we are using the term gender-neutral."

One Roger Simon thinks it's a great idea: "I believe that if all parts of the body were treated equally, and there was not so much emphasis on genitalia, than people could move beyond gender differences and grow mentally and socially." Well, call us small-minded, but the idea of going to the bathroom and having a girl at the next urinal doesn't exactly put us at ease.

Political correctness, like other totalitarian ideologies, demands absolute purity.
-- James Taranto

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[DA-MAN]

Alright! One bathroom for all, see some good does come out of this whole "politically correct" bullshit!

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[Mordanthanus]

Well, we could always change the pictures...

One stick figure with a hole in the crotch and one with a rod.

Let these morons spend their time worrying about their kids eyes instead of stupid ass issues.

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[Wyatt Earp]

It won't work.

See, fellas don't talk in the bathroom. Unless it's to talk about sports in grunts, or "what movie are you in? It good?" types of coverstations.

On the otherhand, women talk about everything under the sun in there, the public bathroom for men, at least in my experiance is a temple of silence, albeit silence punctuated with "Dude! I'm hammered!" or long deep farts echoing on tile.

That said, I may not be honoring diversity because I've not used the john with some some sex-gender continuum benders. Perhaps Gender-Bender can shed some light on it, I'll look to my DVDs.

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[misterplow]

One Roger Simon thinks it's a great idea: "I believe that if all parts of the body were treated equally, and there was not so much emphasis on genitalia, than people could move beyond gender differences and grow mentally and socially." Well, call us small-minded, but the idea of going to the bathroom and having a girl at the next urinal doesn't exactly put us at ease.

In Japan (and probably other countries in at least Asia . . ) it is common for non-residential toilet facilities to be cleaned throughout the day by elderly women. The "girl at the next urinal" scenario is a lot more common than you might think. Took a while to get used to it, but now I don't even think (or look) twice. Only once did a cleaning woman come in who seemed to be somewhat young (which time made me pause for a second, to be honest)

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[Anonymous Coward]

I am a current UofC student who is a straight male and only heard about this through the newspaper.
All they want is to switch a couple of bathrooms in two buildings to not be male/female. We already have many non-sex bathrooms in dorms because we don't care who we are using the bathroom next to. These bathrooms were made non-sex because everyone in those dorms voted for them to not have an assigned sex. This way instead of walking down the hall to use the bathroom, you can use the one across from your room. So, does making a few more non-sex bathrooms bother most students?
No.
And if it makes someone else's life easier, all the better. Remember they are only talking about a few bathrooms to make a portion of the population more comfortable. Why not?

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[Anonymous Coward]

"One Roger Simon thinks it's a great idea: "I believe that if all parts of the body were treated equally, and there was not so much emphasis on genitalia, than people could move beyond gender differences and grow mentally and socially."

This guy's an asshole. Is that a good start?

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[AntiOrganic]

This is ridiculous, because the notion that women should be allowed to choose whether or not to wear a dress is a completely Eurocentric philosophy, and is certainly considered offensive to those from more traditional cultures. Such practices are discriminatory to those from a traditional Vietnamese, Korean or Chinese upbringing, where women are expected to wear dresses. This blatantly violates their right to have their own cultural identity.

You see? You can pick any extremist point of view, whether you actually believe it or not, and justify it just as these people have, whether it's liberal or conservative. The pendulum swings both ways, babycakes.

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[benja]

This is a real problem for real people. Care to explain what is so strange about it?

Although I find it surprising that they would emphasize the self-labeling aspect so much and the problem of others' reactions so little, at least in the quoted excerpt. When you risk violence or verbal abuse because of being "in the wrong bathroom," that's an even bigger problem than having to label yourself "woman" or "man." Better Than Choclate has a scene illustrating that very well. Maybe it's not so much of a problem in a University setting. One would hope...

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[Reziac]

Was recently at a new theater where there were restrooms labled "women" (with the standard stylized "woman in a dress" graphic) and "family" (with stylized graphics of a man, a woman, and a child all holding hands), but far as I saw, none labeled "men". ???!!

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[greysky]

She pointed out that many women's restrooms have a caricature of a person in a dress on it. "Going into it implies that we are willing to be associated with that image. There are only two [images] to choose from. This moment involves an act of self-labeling."

Replace the pictures of people with a rooster and a cat. Problem solved

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[dbIII]

It could be a lot worse. In the park opposite where I live a bunch of people got the public toilets locked up "for the children" - since it is possible that perverts might go there. Now, in the middle of a Saturday afternoon I can look out my window and see men and women pee outside the locked door of the toilets.

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[DoctorFrog]

he "knew people who had contracted bladder infections because choosing a gender bathroom bothered them so much that they did not go to the bathroom all day."

The astronomer Tycho Brahe actually died as the result of a burst bladder, because he was too embarrassed to step out for a whiz during a dinner party.

Actually, there's something perversely admirable in cultivating your neuroses to that level of dysfunctionality...

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[LarsWestergren]

The astronomer Tycho Brahe actually died as the result of a burst bladder, because he was too embarrassed to step out for a whiz during a dinner party.

Sorry, urban legend. Most likely he died of mercury poisoning.

I have heard the "bladder bursting" meme before, sometimes it's a flag bearer at a Nobel dinner, sometimes a diplomat visiting a king/emperor/vizier...
Unless you get a kidney stone lodged in your urethera and a complete stop, I doubt it is anatomically possible to "keep it in" until your bladder pops.

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[Sprinkels]

The feminists, "queers" and gender studiers want unisex bathrooms:

I want seperate bathrooms for smokers and non-smokers!

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[ziggr]

A Woman's Guide on How to Pee Standing

The girl at the next urinal is indeed a lot more common than you think.

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[akruppa]

This problem was solved efficiently at the biology department of a university I once visited (don't remember which one). The bathrooms were labelled "XX" and "XY" and you'd always see a person or two (presumably non-biologists) standing there and thinking hard which kind they were.

Alex

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[StressedEd]

If memory serves, this was done in various countries in (politically) Eastern Europe not so long ago and can (so I'm told) still be seen.

The symbols used were apparently a circle and a triangle.. Endless confusion I'm sure.

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[Dave2 Wickham]

It could well have been somewhere else; I've noticed that sometimes (at least around here) toilets for women aren't next to the men's... No idea why.

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[noims]

The Pulpit pub in Waterford (Ireland) solves this easily. There's a silhouette of a cat on one door and a rooster on the other. No stereotypes there.

Noims.

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[Anonymous Coward]

You guys really fart in the bathroom??
How gross!

A girl.

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[highwebl]

When I was in college, I lived in an all-male dorm, so most floors had a men's bathroom shower combination. That did not stop girlfriends and other male enthusiasts (for those who do not want to be labeled a girlfriend) from pretty much using the facilities whenever the pleased-after a courtesy warning for the shy.

It seems to me that some similar situation can be worked out here.

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[jimcooncat]

Honest, mum, I thought the sign was for us Scots. Looked like a kilt to me!

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[sLaSh_N_bUrN_(.Y.)]

I know how these women feel. I feel that the generic image of a man/woman (plan and not defined) is the incorrect lable for most people. They should make mutiple restrooms for all types of people. Like a really fat man/woman, really skinny man/woman, woman with big tits, man with big dick..... the list goes on. Oh yeah, and have bouncers at the door to make sure you go into the right one.

Never mind, this is all too stupid

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[Anonymous Coward]

I once went to a Tex-Mex restaurant whose restrooms were labeled "Shake It" and "Wipe It."

Problem solved.

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[Reziac]

Possible (I've occasionally seen randomly separated facilities too), but to get to where we were going we had to all but tour the whole theatre complex, and those were the only johns I saw of any description!

Ooops, I think I just used another sexist word :)

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[jc42]

A bit of satirical anti-PC humor that I've seen in Scottish environments is to have the restrooms labelled with icons of people wearing either a dress or a kilt.

It's perfectly obvious which you should use ...

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[DoctorFrog]

Ah, too bad. I'd never heard it except in relation to Tycho Brahe before. It did seem a bit implausible.

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[SoCalChris]

Many places have family restrooms for nursing moms. They usually have a couch so the mom can relax and feed her baby.

Although I have no idea why a theater would be catering to nursing moms...

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[Reziac]

My best guess is that it's because of the issues some people have with taking a child into the restroom for the opposite sex, or a parent accompanying the child into the restroom of the child's gender but not the parent's. (I've seen kids, parents, and bystanders all objecting to one situation or another.) And to address parental fears about the bogeyman getting their kid while said kid is alone in the "other" restroom.

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[jerde]

Discrimination! What about the XXX and XYY minority? :)

- Peter

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[SpacePunk]

Bah. A human can endure 16+ hours without urinating. Not that it's comfortable, but it can be done.

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[cyb3r0ptx]

Yes, but wouldn't you think it a bit strange as soon as you realized you were standing shoulder to shoulder with a "woman" at the urinal?

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[Moofie]

Well, what about the people who, under the new system, will be uncomfortable in a unisex bathroom? Are they supposed to just shut up and deal?

Why do we tell one set of people to shut up and deal so another set of people don't have to shut up and deal?

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[monkeydo]

Bullshit. The images on the doors are concessions to illiterates, not heterosexuals. If you are a man (do you have a dick?) go in the men's room. If you are a woman (do you have a vagina?) go in the women's room. Have both? Flip a coin, but the men's room usually has a shorter line. I don't give a rat's ass if you are wearing a skirt or not.

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[toriver]

I doubt it is anatomically possible to "keep it in" until your bladder pops.

I think a full-ish bladder, a three-point safety belt and a collision will do nicely for that.

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[toriver]

The images on the doors are concessions to illiterates ... which is why, in 100% literate Norway, doors are usually labeled with the words "Herrer" and "Damer". What, you don't know Norwegian? Take a pick, then.

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[Anonymous Coward]

You're missing the point. It's subtle, crude sex humor. It's a picture of a "cock" and a "pussy."

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[Anonymous Coward]

"I believe that if all parts of the body were treated equally, and there was not so much emphasis on genitalia, than people could move beyond gender differences and grow mentally and socially."

Maybe the people of the future will have thier crotches dermabraised into androgyny?

Re:Truth is stranger than fiction

[Anonymous Coward]

We can either fart in the bathroom or the movie theatre, your choice.

I thought it was the polite one.

webmaster -> web weaver

[lou2112]

Organizations like the Unitarian Universalist Association -- known for its politically correct constituency -- were quick to rename "webmasters" to "web weavers" for this exact reason. All said, perhaps a good thing; however, it does require a shift of convention and a grain of salt. The shift of convention is necessary for those terms which explicitly conjure bad feelings; the grain of salt for those which are simply ridiculous.

I'm glad they got that out of the way!

[Regul8or]

Now there's nohting left to worry about in LA.

Don't you mean...

[Atragon]

Governator/Taxinated?

Someone call Webster's!!!

[dedeman]

Alright folks, apparently this is a black and white issue (oh, wait..ummm). Well, I'm all for political sensitivities, but let's call a spade a spade....(ummmm, maybe we shouldn't...). I think that someone in the upper echelon of county administration is wetting their panties (no wait, I mean undergarments) over the possibilty of a lawsuit alledging discrimination, over a well defined and widely used term. I want to assume that this was a not an IT employee, or someone with transparent skin. If I'm really lucky, this will be one of those words or phrases in the english language which I am no longer privledged enough to use. One of those words that can only be used by some people without causing offense. Here's a hint, it sounds like "niggardly".

Newspeak

[wiredlogic]

Of course, this is a perfectly natural step in the development of Newspeak.

Clearly the entire concept of a Master/Slave relationship is unacceptable to BB. It promotes a distrust of authority. I trust that the LA county ISD is working hard to strike all references to masters and slaves from public school textbooks.

Next they can hire some ASEAN consultants for assistance in firewalling the Internet at the county borders.

My suggestion

[Guppy06]

Considering one of Los Angeles' major industries, why not call them MPAA/consumer?

Replace with Label/Artist?

[thumbtack]

Seems to fit...

Re:Replace with Label/Artist?

[Anonymous Coward]

isn't that redundant - the pimp/ho terminology covers that already, I think...

Re:Replace with Label/Artist?

[thumbtack]

Maybe so, but this is one that seems to be acceptable to Hollyweird...

Colored Paper and Manholes

[CowboyRobot]

About 15 years ago my town (Ithaca, NY) started recycling paper and every school had two bins in each classroom, one labeled 'white only' and one labeled 'colored' - since, at the time, the recyclers didn't want the two mixed when pulped. As a joke, a kid scrawled the word 'racist' on one of the bins, and the administration freaked out. Within a few days the labels were changed to 'bleached' and 'dyed'.

Around the same time the city was exploring alternative names for 'manhole' and 'manhole cover'. Many suggestions were submitted, but none were euphonious to be adopted ('sewer hole', 'conduit entry point') and in the end nothing happened.

So, sometimes offense can be avoided when simple and obvious alternatives can be found, but sometimes it can't. In the case of 'master'/'slave', the nomenclature is too established and there is no obvious alternative, so I doubt anything would come of this.

(In the case of 'male'/'female' cable connectors, we could just as easily get along with plug/socket|jack)

Ithaca is the same town where there were serious debates about eliminating the word HIStory, as it was gender-biased. A simple counter of the bias of the word HERitage was enough to stop that.

Re:Colored Paper and Manholes

[theonetruekeebler]

The whole "white paper"/"colored paper" thing happened at Harvard University around then, too. Someone scribbled out "colored paper" and wrote "paper of color." You'll recall that "person of color" was one of the first pitiful late-1980's PC stab at fucking up everything.

Re:Colored Paper and Manholes

[Anonymous Coward]

My name is jack your insensitive clod

Re:Colored Paper and Manholes

[jafiwam]

You make me dream good dreams again.

A long time ago I was going to make a small web site selling my very own obnoxious bumper stickers of my own design. Various women in my life have since quashed the idea, but you made me recall one simply worded one;

"How you spell the wyrd, won't change my attitude about your cynt."

Of course, nobody else but me thought that type of stuff was funny. So the idea never got off the ground (or out of the gutter for that matter).

Re:Colored Paper and Manholes

[Anonymous Coward]

No problem, just add a "u" into "color" so that it is "coloured paper." That "u" makes the word much more fancy and pleasing to the eye and brain.

Re:Colored Paper and Manholes

[CowboyRobot]

You should be weeping for the poor guy with the nickname "Manhole".

Re:Colored Paper and Manholes

[PetWolverine]

100 if by space, 101 if by underground tunnel, 110 if you hear the words, "Beam me up, Scotty."

Re:Colored Paper and Manholes

[Anonymous Coward]

Manholes have been renamed in a lot of places to "Access Chambers" or, more commonly, "Maintenance Holes".

That way they didn't have to change the drawings (MH).

Re:Colored Paper and Manholes

[Anonymous Coward]

Ithaca is the same town where there were serious debates about eliminating the word HIStory,

Bunch of crypto-fascist warmonger idiots. What's the word for history in french? Histoire. Does "his" mean anything in french? Nope. Heard of a histogram? The word history has nothing to do with the masculine.

Reminds me of a woman at Concordia University in Montreal who refused to be given a Bachelor's degree. But she perfectly happy to accept a baccalaureate degree. What does baccalaureate mean? You guessed it. Idiot bitch.

Re:Colored Paper and Manholes

[kavachameleon]

History is actually from the Greek `istoria. It has no gender reference at all. This is why everyone should learn ancient Greek. :-P

Re:Colored Paper and Manholes

[Anne Thwacks]

we could just as easily get along with plug/socket|jack

I think not - those words originally had genital connotations! The terms male and female were introduced to be politically corect. Incidentally, have you ever looked at a 1/4" phone jack? - Where do you think the design came from?

Re:Colored Paper and Manholes

[oshy]

Going slightly OT

Didn't one place want the greeting HELLo changed to HEVENo?
I'm sure the root of "hello" was to do with banquising hell, so "heveno" would actually be more satanic.

Re:Colored Paper and Manholes

[isorox]

(In the case of 'male'/'female' cable connectors, we could just as easily get along with plug/socket|jack)

What about IEC or BNC? plug's generally go into jacks, however with these connectors its a little bit more complicated. Male/Female is more appropiate.

Re:Colored Paper and Manholes

[Wordman]

In an office I saw at Harvard, there was similar graffitti changing "Colored Paper" to "Paper of Color".

Let's take it to the next step.

[interstellar_donkey]

Let's stop using that "Spanish" language in any public documents. This is a language that unfairly assigns a 'gender' to every noun.

Unless the Spanish speaking Mexican American population of Los Angeles county agree to replace the 'le' and 'la' with something more gender nutural, then all people working with, or receiving services will have to do so in the English language.

You sexist pigs.

Re:Let's take it to the next step.

[Anonymous Coward]

Le and la are the French definite articles, in Spanish it's "el" and "la".

Re:Let's take it to the next step.

[smart.id]

Le is used as an indirect object pronoun.

Re:Let's take it to the next step.

[werfele]

True enough, but as the indirect object pronoun, le is gender neutral, and so would be unobjectionable according to the logic of the grandparent post. I think he/she/it/they should confess to having mistyped el.

Re:Let's take it to the next step.

[Anonymous Coward]

le is french, in spanish it's "el" and "la".

Re:Let's take it to the next step.

[interstellar_donkey]

Rather then cop out and say it was a mistyping, it was both a mistake about Spanish thinking it was the same as French, and also a mistake about the nature of French. Learning from our mistakes is what makes life great, even if your mistakes make you sound like an idiot.

Also, I think Los Angeles county should ban the French language.

Re:Let's take it to the next step.

[ChaoticLimbs]

It's very anglocentric of you to refer to the language of Espana as "Spanish". It has a proper name, and that name is "Espanol". You insensitive prick.

Re:Let's take it to the next step.

[Anonymous Coward]

In Los Angeles county, "Espanol" is commonly refered to as "Spanish".

If I was in Mexico city, I don't think I'd get pissed off if they were talking about all thos gringos speaking Ingles.

Re:Let's take it to the next step.

[roe1352]

You insensitive clod! In Spain there are 5 languages, not just one! (Basque, Gallego, Catalan, Valenciano, Castellano) And the proper name of the language you speak of is Castellano not Espanol (damn English keyboards)

Re:Let's take it to the next step.

[Slack3r78]

Also, I think Los Angeles county should ban the French language

Shouldn't be too hard, I hear that the French have pre-emptively surrendered.

Re:Let's take it to the next step.

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually all of the Romance Languages and most other Indo-European Languages (including:
Indo-Iranian (Sanskrit, Assamese, Bengali, Gujarati, Hindi, Maithili, Marathi, Nepali, Oriya, Pali, Punjabi, Romany, Sindhi, Singhalese, Urdu)
Iranian languages: (Persian, Pahlavi, Pashto, Dari , Tajik, Ossetian, Kurdish, Balochi, Talysh, Tat)
Italic (Oscan, Umbrian, Latin),
Germanic (High German, Luxembourgeois, Swiss German, Austrian, Aleman Coloneiro (spoken in Venezuela), Hutterite German (aka "Tirolean"), Yiddish, Dutch, Afrikaans, Standard Low Saxon, Plautdietsch (Mennonite Low German), Frisian, Anglic, Modern Scots, Cayman Islands English, Angloromany, East Germanic,West (Insular) Scandinavian, Icelandic, Faroese, Norwegian Nynorsk, East (Continental) Scandinavian, Danish, Norwegian (Norwegian Bokmal), Swedish),
Celtic (Irish Gaelic, Scots Gaelic and Manx, Welsh, Breton, Cornish, Cumbric and Pictish),
Baltic(Latvian, Lituanian, Prussian),
Slavic (Slovenian, Croatian, Serbian, Bulgarian, Macedonian, Czech, Slovak, Polish, Russian, Ukranian, Belarusian),
Albanian, Greek and Armenian, plus many African languages have masculine/femenine/neuter language parts.... Go get 'em tiger!

Re:Let's take it to the next step.

[armando_wall]

"Unless the Spanish speaking Mexican American population of Los Angeles county agree to replace the 'le' and 'la' with something more gender nutural,"

That would be "el" and "la". You also have cuban americans, spanish americans, colombian americans, argentinan americans, venezuelan americans, spanish guinea americans (who come from Africa), puerto ricans (which are all automatically americans), and so on and on and on. I guess it's better to say "latin/hispanic americans" ;-D .

Funny stuff, though!!

Re:Let's take it to the next step.

[LittleGuy]

You insensitive clod!

Hey! Clods have rights and feelings, you insensitive clod-oppressor!

Re:Let's take it to the next step.

[Anonymous Coward]

que?

Re:Let's take it to the next step.

[mpe]

Let's stop using that "Spanish" language in any public documents. This is a language that unfairly assigns a 'gender' to every noun.

Actually languages which attach gender to nouns (sometimes it's even possible for the gender attached to the noun to be different from the gender of whatever the noun describes) tend to get a lot less of this nonsense. "Nonsense" being the assumption that "his-", "her-", "-man" have anything to do with gender indication.

Re:Let's take it to the next step.

[ChaoticLimbs]

How dare you assume I need you to come to my rescue just because I am Scottish! You patronizing clod!

Shit another belly-achin democrat...

[SirTreveyan]

why dont ya just get over it!!! Or how about actually finding out what really went on. And dont say the US Supreme Court threw the election, because they did no such thing. If anything the Florida Supreme Court screwed up. Let me explain.

The US Constitution has this weird idea that no one is better than anyone else, aka Equal Protection. This idea extends to election law, in that no ones vote counts more than anyone elses.

Now when the Gore realized how close the election was, his buddies in the Democratic party wanted to count just areas that vote heavily Democratic. The Repuplicans requested that the entire state be counted. First the Democrats got a judge in theses areas to approve a recount. Then the Republicans got a higher court to over turn that decision. Next, Gore's buddies appealed to the Florida Supreme Court, which is predominantly Democratic, which OK'd the limited recount. The Republican Party appealed to the US Supreme Court, stating that a limited recount violated equal protection.

Now when the case was heard by the U.S Supreme court, they heard the Bush lawyers arguing for a state wide recount, while the Gore lawyers argued a) against a statewide recount and b)extenting the deadline for certifying election results ( defined by Florida law to be due by the 13th of December )

The US Supreme Court's decision therefore two parts. The U.S Supreme court agreed by a 7-2 vote that a limited recount violated the U.S Constitution. The Supreme Court decide by a 5-4 vote that it would not overturn the Florida law establishing a deadline for certification of election results, since that law did not violate the US Constitution in any way. This decision came down on a Thursday and the election results had to be certified on the following Monday. There simply was not enough time to do a recount.

Like I said Gore and his buddies and the Florida Supreme Court kissed the pooch on this one. If they would have been behind a state wide recount things might have turned out different. But what do you expect from a bunch of ninnys...

How about taking the Worlds Smallest Politica Quiz

Re:Shit another belly-achin democrat...

[Zeriel]

You might wish to note that this implies that your definition of "conservative" is equivalent to their definition of "leftist libertarian", not that their quiz is "wrong".

At the electronic components store in L.A...

[Angstroem]

I need a J/K Master/Sl... erm, I mean, a jump/kill...
Dammit, just give me a CD4095.

You need to die.

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you missed the boat on the whole Nazi party thing, there buddy. Guess you have nothing left to do but curl up and die. Real patriots respect the constitution, and the ideals our forefathers lived for and died to protect. You just think you're a patriot because the nuts you blindly follow are waving the stars and stripes all over the place. They're really quite similar to the Nazis of 1930s Germany. Patriotism is commendable (at times), nationalism is ignorant and dangerous.

Exactly missing the point. (and wrong to boot)

[IBitOBear]

Well, you managed to put a nice technical sheen on supporting the error with an error.

It is true that as far as the user is concerned, the difference between master and slave on an IDE bus boils down to which drive is "first".

However, the terms "master" and "slave" directly relate to the two drives and how they relate to the IDE controller and system. Yes, they don't send commands to eachother, but the master constrains the clocking on the bus and the slave is, well, slaved to the clocking the master negotiates. That is why you must have a master even if there is no slave. Further, "cable select" selects the master via its position on the cable, but it is still the master.

Even a quick google on IDE handshake clocking would reveal to you that there is *TECHNOLOGY* involved in the distinction.

For instance, you always make your fastest device on the IDE bus the master, otherwise, if the slower device were the master the faster device would be bounded to clock with the slower. (Etc.)

My full attention isn't being paid to this post, but it clearly trumps your "but the bios lets me switch them" level of investigation.

It is not so much the questioners that are causing the fall of this society, it is the persons like yourself, willing to answer those questions without even bothering to decide if they have the requsite knowledge.

sigh.

Re:Exactly missing the point. (and wrong to boot)

[dbrower]

Many people posting here about the silliness of the decree (which is silly) miss a point that the IDE term isn't all that well chosen at the start.

There was nothing necessary in the IDE standard obliging use of those terms. There are any number of other terms that could have been used that do not conflict with the channel identity primary and secondary. It could as well have been principal/follower, or alpha/beta. For fun, use "supplicant" for the 2nd one. Parasite? Sycophant? Symbiot?

Anyway, master/slave need not have been used. Something that indicated necessity of the 1st one and the optional nature of the other would have sufficed.

In fact, "slave" is a bad term. There are many times when the question why there can't be more than one slave is raised. One master, many slaves is a perfectly logical extension of the natural metaphor, and it's a wrong conclusion for the IDE space.

"Names are hard."

-dB

Re:Exactly missing the point. (and wrong to boot)

[edb]

Ahem, isn't this slavishly bowing to Political Correctness?

As if there isn't already enough reason for the rest of the country, and the world, to laugh at California, with our new Governator...

Re:Exactly missing the point. (and wrong to boot)

[pjrc]

they don't send commands to eachother, but the master constrains the clocking on the bus and the slave is, well, slaved to the clocking the master negotiates.

This is simply incorrect.

The host (your PC) queries both drives using the device identify command, and receives a 512 byte clock of information about each device (if each is present).

While it is true that the 2 devices do not send commands to each other, during startup diagnostics, they do communicate with each other on the "PDIAG" line. The google search you gave returns many datasheets that refer to this "IDE handshake" during startup diagnostics, and also have "clocking" somewhere else in the document.

The truth is that the host (PC) controls the clocking for each device. The master device does not control what clock the host chooses for the slave device.

That is why you must have a master even if there is no slave.

There is no such requirement, other than old bioses which do not properly check for a slave device is the master is not present. Virtually all modern bioses check for a slave-only configuration. Also, most modern operating systems will autodetect the hardware, regardless of the bios detection.

Re:Exactly missing the point. (and wrong to boot)

[TiggsPanther]

Anyway, master/slave need not have been used. Something that indicated necessity of the 1st one and the optional nature of the other would have sufficed.

That's as maybe. But there's nothing inherantly offensive about the terms. (Contextually inappropriate in some settings, yes. Inherantly offensive, no) "Master" is in so many contexts in computing. So calling the primary device on a channel the Master just makes sense, and if they needed a term for the secondary device and they needed one that contrasts, then "Slave" would seem a logical choice.

They might not be the best terms, but they do fit. And they are understood. And even if L.A. County does force the manufacturers to ship goods with different labelling/packaging/manuals, you can be pretty sure that the L.A. Techies will still refer to devices a Master and Slave.

Plus I guess it's just another matter of legacy terminology. Regradless of the reasoning behind it, the two devices on an IDE channel are the Master and Slave.
Mandating a change in terminology would just be an excercise in futility, and bring in the potential for confusion.

The only real way to remove the terms from usage is to remove traditional IDE devices from use. It's easier to apply a new term to a new technology (or at least a new iteration of an older technology). So when the next IDE-derivative comes out (or if something replaces the IDE method as the de facto standard) then that would be the time to find better terms.

Tiggs

Re:Exactly missing the point. (and wrong to boot)

[GenSolo]

Maybe we should've just called them the master and the apprentice?

Re:Exactly missing the point. (and wrong to boot)

[noscule]

>>> That is why you must have a master even if there is no slave. I'd always believed this to be the case, which is why I was stunned to discover I could boot up a Linux CD-ROM on my PC, even though the CD-ROM drive was jumpered as a slave on the secondary IDE port of my machine with no other disk drive present (either on the primary or secondary ports) - i.e. not physically connected at all. Maybe this is the difference between IDE and ATAPI - but then again I could be talking utter rubbish. However, what happened, happened, and on boot up it was clear that the first three disk entries were NO DRIVE PRESENT and secondary slave showed my CD-ROM drive. Is this normal??? - Andrew

Re:Exactly missing the point. (and wrong to boot)

[zeugma-amp]

The term 'slave' may not make a lot of sense in the IDE world, but for some reason your post brings to mind something I thought was pretty funny when I first saw it many years ago.

I was taking a class on Ultrix (DEC's Unix many, many moons ago), and happened across the manpage for NTP as I was trying to sync up a bunch of computers in the lab for my own nefarious purposes. Here's what I recall about the way it was described:

One server on the network should be designated as a Master timeserver. The slaves will get their time from the master. If, for some reason, the master is unavailable, (i.e., the master dies or is KILLed), the slaves will hold an election for a new master, who will become the timeserver for the slaves. When/if he designated master is resurrected, the elected master will return to slave status.

I really wish I still had a copy of that man page it was a pretty interesting read.

Re:Exactly missing the point. (and wrong to boot)

[dbrower]

Maybe we should've just called them the master and the apprentice?

That would be wrong, because in IDE, the apprentice can't ever take the role of the master. This is distinct from the re-elected master scenario common in distributed programs mentioned earlier in the thread.

-dB

Re:Exactly missing the point. (and wrong to boot)

[GenSolo]

It was a StarWars joke. It appears that it wasn't funny =/

[the rant light is on]

[theCat]

Master/slave is just the latest. California is a minefield for this kind of crud, I should know I live in the Bay Area inside the Politically Correct triangle formed by Marin, Berkeley and Silicon Valley. I want to be as sensitive as the next bloke, but sometimes I pick up the paper and read something that just makes me want to puke. My wife is of the same mind and we rail against the PC fascists most mornings listening to public radio and browsing the newspaper.

PC fascism extends to pets, races, bums, unwed mothers and sexual deviants (not to lump anyone together...trying to be PC here as you can see...) who must be correctly refered to (respectively) as fur friends, people of color, the economically disadvantaged, single mothers and GLBTG (for the gay/lesbian/bisexual/transgendered crowd, though we used to call them all by the PC term "Gay" rather than homosexual but recently they each wanted in on the game so now we have this horrid acronym which I guess is itself more PC than PC. Barf).

Our everyday lexicon is scattered with taboo words and topics. Unless they are white the authorities cannot refer to a suspect criminal on the run by their race not even to facilitate apprehending them. And a vicious dog is never a dangerous animal that needs to be destroyed (as opposed to being a family member needing therapy) and you cannot discuss GLBTG "gay rights" issues in any manner other than as a political movement for justice even if that means they can demand the opportunity to explain their lifestyle choice at whatever level of detail suits them in front of a classroom of 13 year old children (to the horror of many who can do nothing to stop it...which is why increasingly we homeschool or private school and leave the public schools to the activists).

A middle class white person has to keep their head down. The best approach is to join a splinter group and start claiming your rights as a minority as loudly as you can. Some claim to be suppressed Native American. Others claim to belong to suppressed religions like Paganism (I happen to claim both, but that is because I happen to be both ;) while others wave the flag of immigrant seeking fairness, or are non-English speakers, while others have been abused as children, or are incest survivors, or are food or chemical or medication sensitive (so don't wear perfume or cologne to the office, or bring a PBJ sandwich for your own lunch, or you'll kill them on the spot and just see if you don't) or had absent fathers, or absent grandparents, or didn't have cable TV when they were young, or are dyslexic, or corpulent, or are in some other way special and are a victim and not "part of the problem" created by the oppressive power elite (who BTW are increasingly Native Americans, immigrants, pagans, GLBTG, food/chemical/drug/fat/bilingual/disabled awareness lobbyists and for all I know family pets.)

Though it seems democratic and diverse, ours is a culture of identity politics and is rife with narrow interests. Nobody pulls together except within their narrowly defined identity group (though I can't imagine how the GLBTG manage it.) You cannot believe how much it sucks. It's a wonder there can be any progress at all on anything important, and it appears that more often than not there is no progresss at all. Where it is all headed I cannot imagine.

Re:[the rant light is on]

[ifwm]

I couldn't have said it better myself.

It makes you wonder what will happen when there is no one left to blame.

Re:[the rant light is on]

[Anonymous Coward]

they can demand the opportunity to explain their lifestyle choice at whatever level of detail suits them in front of a classroom of 13 year old children (to the horror of many who can do nothing to stop it...

I call bullshit on that. What idiots modded that Rush Limbaugh rant insightful?

Re:[the rant light is on]

[khallow]

It makes you wonder what will happen when there is no one left to blame.

We'll always have each other.

And ifwm, I don't want to offend you here, but you've been really slack lately in reminding me to do my laundry. We're trying to build a sense of community here and you're holding me back. I know you're going to say that I never remind you to do your laundry, but that's because you're so negative and not considering my point of view. Besides the leg cramp keeps me up at night. Especially when it hurts or whatever it is that leg cramps do. I can't be expected to remind people when I have this burden taxing my mind, uh, and my laundry basket. But it hurts me more, yes, it really does to have to say this to you.

Re:[the rant light is on]

[shrub34]

Nobody pulls together except within their narrowly defined identity group (though I can't imagine how the GLBTG manage it.)

They don't. The GL don't quite trust the B (to "straight"). TG are they're own little group of distrust. More often than not, GLB would rather have nothing to do with TG except most GLB discrimination comes from TG influences.

Now if the IDE and SCSI would just co-operate ^_-

I dont trust snopes anymore

[FIGJAM]

Since noticing the article on Snopes about Mister Ed actually being a zebra, I found it hard to believe their explanation behind it was valid.

A simple google search reveals that the horse was a zebra only sometimes.

Re:I dont trust snopes anymore

[FortissimoWily]

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but you should have clicked the link at the bottom of the page you linked to - the one that says "More information about this page". To cut it short, you fell for a page that is a spoof. ;)

Re:I dont trust snopes anymore

[Anonymous Coward]

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but you just got trolled.

Re:I dont trust snopes anymore

[FIGJAM]

DOH!

Possible replacment terms

[Robawesome]

Possible replacement terms:

Master:Overlord, Strawboss, Whitey

Slave: CottonPicker, Underling, Nigger

Re:Possible replacment terms

[Anonymous Coward]

Master: Government
Slave: Taxpayer

Wow

[solidex]

Only thing I have to say is: and so, the bar has been raised.

"Top/Bottom" ?

[xant]

Appropriate term from the gay community which is otherwise innocuous to slip by (think about goatse.cx if you can't figure it out)...

Too bad it's also confusing.

Ah HAH!

[Skyshadow]

Gotcha! There is no Fry's in Oakland!

I gotta drive all the way down to Fremont to get my gear.

Re:Ah HAH!

[mandalayx]

Gotcha! There is no Fry's in Oakland!

I gotta drive all the way down to Fremont to get my gear.

Alternatively, I think the point was that even SF hasn't gotten into the act.

A citizen of LA County responds to the county

[steve buttgereit]

The notice to vendors [...] has to be the most single ridiculous thing that I've read in a while. Given the dysfunctional workings of the county recorders website (last I checked) I would have hoped that there would have been more important issues to address rather than the norms of an entire industry. Whatever petty bureaucrat decided to engage in this infantile show of power, and that's what it is: using race because one can and not because one should, clearly has too much time and should be fired.

The master/slave terminology is common throughout technology, understood by engineers and technical support personnel, and is an accurate technical representation of the process it describes. To top it off, the terminology has been used for many years. What it is not is a reference to an unfortunate part of our history. Of my colleagues, I know of no one that understands it this way nor expressed they've been harmed by the terminology: colleagues of all races all of whom are sufficiently mature to tell the difference between a descriptive piece of jargon and a verbal slight.

This state already causes businesses to jump through too many hoops. Hampering an industry because some inadequate figure within your department can't demonstrate their impact via talent and superior service, but rather has to resort to trivial and self-serving actions clearly shows that the county of Los Angeles doesn't understand the needs of citizens and business. This is why the business I am opening will not be within the county and for similar reasons within the state.

That's all very well...

[Anonymous Coward]

...but you find me someone who has *actually* been a slave. I can go out and find 100's people in a matter of days who have been *directly* affected by your cute example of 'two collapsable circuits', but I'm willing to wager that you *can't* find someone *directly* affected by being a slave, subject to a master. ...I'm waiting...

Re:That's all very well...

[�nertia]

I appreciate that, the availability heuristc of the WTC is also vastly more in play because of the established media and surronding discourse. Just because it's more widely publicied gives it no more relvance to this argument. I'm sure the thousands of familys who's children are taken forcbly are just as sensitive about this issue as the thousands of americans are towards the WTC. Yours is just an argument of who can complain the loudest. It's simple philosophy. And it's why attempted murder and murder are pretty much equal in the eye's of the law.

Re:That's all very well...

[Qrlx]

but you find me someone who has *actually* been a slave. I can go out and find 100's people in a matter of days who have been *directly* affected by your cute example of 'two collapsable circuits', but I'm willing to wager that you *can't* find someone *directly* affected by being a slave, subject to a master. ...I'm waiting...

http://www.freetheslaves.net/

Personally I think we should call the first drive on the chain the Israel device and the second drive on the chain the U.S. device. Or is that the other way around?

This is a good thing

[xeno-cat]

For those of us that did not experience slavery, or have familay members who experienced it, or feel the economic ramifications of having been decended from slaves, or live in a country that only recently ( 30 years ago ) recognised my color as being equal, at least in law to every other human being in the country, this may seem farsical.

The US has still to this day not come fully to grips with the absolutly horrific cultural of racism and slavery in it's not so distant past. Racism is still prevalent in the US even today. A look at inner city projects and the penal system is just the most visible testament to the level of racism that persists.

It seems almost grotesk that a nation that engaged so fully in the slave trade and still has the very people who have decended from that enslavement living within it's national boundries would except and use langauge that could so clearly salt wounds that, frankly, have never been properly dressed.

So maybe an IDE subsystem is not the best place to make a stand against racism. But if I am working with a black technition who was perhaps decended from a slave that was raped by one of the USA's founding fathers and states that they would prefer that I not use the term "master/slave", F it, I'll use another term.

How 'bout "primary/secondary".

Kind Regards

Re:This is a good thing

[Glonoinha]

Basically you sound like you want to use / establish a vocabulary that is guaranteed not to offend anybody in the workplace, ya?

Easy : keep on using your existing vocabulary and just don't hire niggers or bitches. Voila! nobody at the office gets offended, guaranteed!

An alternative, of course, is to expect that all employees work in the existing environment and accept that words may be used that if they really, really wanted to they could twist into totally unintended meanings and be offended by them (ie, Master/Slave hard drive settings, cylinders in automobile settings) - by accepting the existing work environment as it stands ensuring that they (and others like them) are welcome to the workplace now and in the future.

This Politically Correct crap has done nothing towards making work environments better for the 'oppressed' (ie, blacks, latins, women) and has done quite a bit towards making hiring managers very, very biased against hiring any of those and being very, very subtle about working towards that effect. I will give you a 100% written guarantee that none of the above are ever getting past zillions of employment screenings in corporate America, and the hiring managers know better than to admit my true motives in which candidate gets chosen.

They are all totally upset with the direction employment is going in corporate America, and yet they are bringing it on themselves. They scream about not being able to get a job, and yet the ones that did get hired pull this PC shit. Well there we go - can't say they weren't asking for it. Big time.

Re:This is a good thing

[xeno-cat]

"keep on using your existing vocabulary and just don't hire niggers or bitches. Voila! nobody at the office gets offended, guaranteed!"

Mmm hmm. Or, I'll just not hire people like you, I won't use words that can reasonably cause pain to others and try, as best I can to live in an imperfect world.

"This Politically Correct crap has done nothing towards making work environments better for the 'oppressed' (ie, blacks, latins, women) and has done quite a bit towards making hiring managers very, very biased against hiring any of those and being very, very subtle about working towards that effect. I will give you a 100% written guarantee that none of the above are ever getting past zillions of employment screenings in corporate America, and the hiring managers know better than to admit my true motives in which candidate gets chosen."

And you have hit very succinctly on the problem with institutional racism. They would rather hire some white asshole because he looks like he's part of the clan than "take a chance" on some "minority". First of all, look around, white people are the minority on this planet. Second, why the hell is it so hard for people to have a little empathy, especialy when their own history practicaly dictates that they should.

Just because the person who is grandstanding on a soap box may be a jackass does not mean that the issue at hand is not worth concidering. Maybe tempered by your own sensabilities, if you have any.

Kind Regards

Re:This is a good thing

[Anonymous Coward]

Wooosh.

I hope you found some change while you were staring at the sidewalk.

Re:This is a good thing

[Dhalka226]

It seems almost grotesk that a nation that engaged so fully in the slave trade and still has the very people who have decended from that enslavement living within it's national boundries would except and use langauge that could so clearly salt wounds that, frankly, have never been properly dressed.

Okay, I'm probably going to come off as racist here I'm sure, but what the hell.

Isn't it a bit egotistical to assume that "slave" must refer to a black person? The term "slave" existed long before the United States did and many of them were white. A half step back would be indentured servitude, also a situation in which many white people found themselves in.

The bottom line is that "master" refers to something in charge and "slave" refers to one who has no say in the matter, but most obey it. Or if you don't prefer my paraphrasing, master is "one that has control over another or others" and slave is "one who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence." (Note that under "slave" there actually was a definition that referred specifically to "machine[s] or machine components" but I refrained from using it.)

The bottom line is that the terms are apt and I simply don't see the great need to change them. Are they offensive to some people? Obviously so. Almost everything is offensive to somebody. The word "God" is offensive to athiests; shall we mandate that anybody doing business with the United States must be irreligious? If "master/slave" is offensive because the word slave somehow offends some black people, we have to strike it from the dictionary too, right? No talking about slavery or slaves in the classroom because a listener might be offended.

There's an old one-liner floating around that goes, "I'm not short, I'm vertically challenged." Humans are emotional creatures and WILL be offended by something in their lives even if the intent is not to do so. The line has to be drawn someplace. I see nothing in the term "master/slave" that says it was created to be prejudiced or anything else that tells me it needs to be removed. Slavery was a nasty situation that should never have occurred, least of all in the United States, but that doesn't mean the words used to describe it need to be abandoned.

I don't think "primary/secondary" properly describes the relationship, at least not for all situations in which the term is used. For instance, it might be okay to describe hard drive configuration (arguments can be made on both side), but how about master/slave processing? One processor isn't simply "secondary," it is downright subservient to the demands of the master. Can we come up with another term that DOES work in all situations? Probably. But my view is, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Re:This is a good thing

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, It's not the minorities that are bitching... it's those bleeding heart "I'm a progressive liberal christian/pagan" people. They're on some kind of mission to tell us how to live... including us minorities.

Re:This is a good thing

[PetWolverine]

The first reply said it best, but I'll explain anyway, because he skipped as obvious several major parts of his reasoning. (Well, okay, he skipped right to "Wooosh.") I'll just explain in more detail.

And you have hit very succinctly on the problem with institutional racism. They would rather hire some white asshole because he looks like he's part of the clan than "take a chance" on some "minority".

Yes, they would. It's not to say they are right in doing this, but it's also not to say that they are racist, necessarily. They simply read the news, hear time and again of racial minorities making life difficult for their employers, and become wary of hiring them. The victims of racism cause more racist decisions through publicity.

The victims of racism can also encourage racism by giving racists grounds for their claims. While I have no reason to think blacks in general are less intelligent than whites, my university has made sure, through its admission practices, that the average black student here is less intelligent than the average white one. Now, knowing this, I can't help but wonder when I meet a black student whether they would have been admitted if they were white--and harbor some resentment if I get the impression they wouldn't have. More dangerous yet, if I didn't know, I might come away from my university career believing all black people to be less intelligent than whites. Call it racism if you want, but I could understand someone in that situation believing that. (Of course, if you go here and don't hear about the admission policies, you're living in a hole.)

This is not meant as a troll or flamebait, by the way. If you think it is, I suggest you re-read it carefully, trying to follow the logic of each argument and forget your bias.

Re:This is a good thing

[Bugmaster]

cylinders in automobile settings

Ok, now I just have to know. What's so offensive about cylinders ? Try as hard as I might, I can't come up with anything... I guess I'm just not PC enough.

Re:This is a good thing

[hughk]

It appears that if we are american, whether white or black and have descendants over several generations in the US then you are related to someone of the 'wrong' color and probably through slavery. Human enslavement still unfortunately exists but not in the US and is nothing to do with the use of master/slave in engineering.

Technically, primary/secondary may work with IDE but it sucks for some of the other uses where there is a one/many relationship. For example, bus mastering.

Re:This is a good thing

[BenjyD]

>How 'bout "primary/secondary".

They already use Primary/secondary - as in Primary master, secondary master, primary slave.... Does no one on Slashdot use computers any more?

Re:This is a good thing

[Anonymous Coward]

What part of the human anatomy is cylindrical?
The male genitalia perhaps...
Therefore, it's a phallic symbol and implies some male bias.

Just guessing here, but it's the only thing I can think of regarding cylinders.

Ridiculous if you ask me.

Re:This is a good thing

[Glonoinha]

Brakes on your car have a master cylinder and slave cylinders. You and I are not offended by this, but it could be twisted into some PC crap if you try hard enough.

Re:This is a good thing

[xeno-cat]

"Isn't it a bit egotistical to assume that "slave" must refer to a black person?"

It does'nt. But American history is'nt going to change and the people living in the american present are connected to that past.

"Or if you don't prefer my paraphrasing, master is 'one that has control over another or others' and slave is 'one who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

Unless of course the slaves rise up, kill the master take his horses and flee north. Now that I think about, thats probably what happend to the server last night. It's not a good analogy unless you deny the humanity, wills and desires of the slave. These are deep thoughts for an IDE controler but it's not the IDE controler that suffered under slavery either.

Don't you think it is odd that the term "master/slave" is so accepted, and even defended by the populace of a country that benefitted from slavery more than any other in the modern era. Don;t you think that maybe the angst against the use of this term is actually part of a larger cultural movement that maybe you would do well to research?

Kind Regards

Re:This is a good thing

[xeno-cat]

"This is not meant as a troll or flamebait, by the way. If you think it is, I suggest you re-read it carefully, trying to follow the logic of each argument and forget your bias."

Nope, I don't think it is a troll. It's just that your head is in the sand, which is the most comfortable place for white people in America to keep them. That way we don't have to know history and understand the impacts of our (USA's) development as a nation and how it disenfranchised a huge population of exploited people.

"The victims of racism can also encourage racism by giving racists grounds for their claims. "

Why should an anti-racists walk on eggshells because some racist prick is going to cry foul? The racist elements in the USA are not simply going to stand asside and welcome a more equitable world. They are going to fight tooth and nail to hold on to the gains they have received from exploiting other people.

It's up to you to understand the issues and not just side line them because you don't think they effect you. You may not concider your self a racist, but if you are white in America you are benefitting from a racist system and your innaction on attempting to undo those elements that are benefitting you because of your skin color is tacit support of racism, at best. Ignorance is not an excuse I hope you would be comfortable with.

Kind Regards

Re:This is a good thing

[xeno-cat]

"They already use Primary/secondary - as in Primary master, secondary master, primary slave"

Yup, won't do at all. I guess that just was'nt my primary point. ( no pun intended, really ).

Kind Regards

Re:This is a good thing

[Glonoinha]

-Mmm hmm.

Ever stop to think that maybe I was trying to make a point, or even perhaps that I am on your side?

-And you have hit very succinctly on the problem with institutional racism. They would rather hire ...

In the context of this entire thread we find that you are pointing at the symptoms, while I am pointing at the problem. If a patient that is throwing up, has a fever, and has the squirts is going to get well you don't treat the fever, vomiting, diarrhea - you try to diagnose that he has the flu and you treat the flu.

Now because this disease has been allowed to grow undiagnosed and unchecked in America the symptoms have become incredibly overwhelming and may even look like new diseases - but just as the fever, vomiting, diarrhea all go away when the flu is gone, so too will the symptoms like institutional racism (jobs, college admissions, even a Black President,) uneven living conditions, etc when the real problems are cured.

Chris Rock (popular black comedian) said it best when he said in a stand up 'I love black people, but I haaaaate niggers.' He said that a few bad apples go a long way toward making the entire bunch look bad. It only took 19 arabs to make most of America angry enough at most arabs to let Bush unleash the dogs of war and overthrow an entire government in Iraq.

Colin Powell.
Michael Jordan.
Oprah.
Bill Cosby.
Tiger Woods.
Vanessa Williams.
Janet Jackson (who I would marry in a heartbeat.)
Richard Pryor.

The list of successful and attractive African Americans goes on and on, and in every case the reason for their success is easily attributed to hard work, dedication, education, and self discipline.

What do I suggest is the real problem, that can be fixed in order that the 'symptoms' go away?
The entitlement attitude (welfare.)
The demands for Reparations (look up the history of Monrovia and Liberia.)
Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and Louis Farrakhan.
A 70% illegitimacy rate (69.3% in 1998.)
Inner city Gangs.
Crack Cocaine. Richard Pryor had it all - career, money, fame, until when? When did he lose everything? The minute he put the crack pipe in his mouth.
Crime Rates - statistically 25% of all black men in the nation GO TO PRISON during some part of their life - there is no reason for that (contrast white males at 4%.)
Voluntary Disenfranchisement - 13% of all black men have lost the right to VOTE (result of felony conviction of a crime they chose to commit.)
Third, fourth, even fifth generation welfare babies.
Car Jackings.
The glamorization of the Pimp lifestyle (MTV's Cribs.)
And now : Politically Correctness. In the wake of the Texaco (google : black jelly bean texaco) fiasco you have to wonder just how bad the process has been destroyed. Yes they have to have a certain percentage of this and that - but if they intentionally promote blacks that are not capable of handling the positions they set them up to fail, and now all hiring managers from companies across America point to that PC event to justify (in their head, not out loud) institutional discrimination.

Nothing that dedication, education, discipline wouldn't (or can't) clean up. The Asian Americans are even a smaller minority in America (less than 5%) but they don't have these problems. Figure out why the differences and that will show you the way to equality, possibly even preferential treatment.

Re:This is a good thing

[xeno-cat]

"In the context of this entire thread we find that you are pointing at the symptoms, while I am pointing at the problem."

No, it's just that you don't understand what the problem is.

"Now because this disease has been allowed to grow undiagnosed and unchecked in America..."

Racisim has not been growing unchecked, it has been receeding. It's been a long hard fought process of education, legislation and activism in order to change a government that had legal racism to one that at least rejects it by the letter of the law. There is much less racism today than there was in the past. There is still more work to be done but you are, off the bat, completely backwards.

"It only took 19 arabs to make most of America angry enough at most arabs to let Bush unleash the dogs of war and overthrow an entire government in Iraq."

A perfect example of why latent racism is so dangerous. 19 Saudis attack America and America overthrows Iraq. I'm beginning to worry you are a Troll.

As for your list, it is a list of symptoms.

"Entitlement Attitude"

wow, as if white people don't have that attitude. Just dumbfunding blindness on your part.

"Crime Rates - statistically 25% of all black men in the nation GO TO PRISON during some part of their life - there is no reason for that (contrast white males at 4%.)"

Ok, your a Troll, have a nice day.

Kind Regards

Re:This is a good thing

[Anonymous Coward]

shut up you damn hippie

Re:This is a good thing

[Glonoinha]

--"Crime Rates - statistically 25% of all black men in the nation GO TO PRISON during some part of their life - there is no reason for that (contrast white males at 4%.)"
-Ok, your a Troll, have a nice day.

I'm not trolling you, I am quoting often referenced materials widely available.

(Remove any spaces in the URLs)

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Prison_System/ Pr ison_System.html : "In 1999, though Blacks were only 13 percent of the U.S. population, they were half of all prison inmates. In 2000, one out of three young Black men was either locked up, on probation, or on parole."

http://archive.aclu.org/news/n022696c.html : "-- On any given day, almost one in three black men between the ages of 20-29 are in prison or jail, on probation or parole."

These are not pretty facts, but I trust the ACLU to tell the truth.

-No, it's just that you don't understand what the problem is.

Ok, maybe I don't. But I am open minded. What is the core problem? What, once fixed, makes all the symptoms go away?

My desire to make the world a better place is unconditional, meaning I do not need to convince you that that is my goal nor do I need you to encourage me or support me to that effect; I will continue doing what I can regardless and possibly in spite of you not understanding it. I have seen how unfair and harsh real life is, was homeless with little more than the clothes on my back at 17 and once again at 20 when I had to choose between tuition and rent. Until about a year ago my roommate was a black woman (lesbian at that) and a lot of my perspective on the issues were shaped by many discussions with her on the subject.

I listen to you now and give you my full attention and completely open mind - I am suggesting that if the list of problems I enumerated were fixed all the symptoms would magically go away. You disagree - and I encourage you to have another opinion but please tell me what you honestly believe needs to be fixed instead.

I think we both agree that the nomenclature associated with IDE hard drives has nothing to do with ultimately resolving this issue.
That said, what does?

Re:This is a good thing

[hesiod]

> It's just that your head is in the sand, which is the most comfortable place for white people in America to keep them

Get your head out of your ass. I'm not going to be as nice as others on this one, since you seem to either take this personally or are being intentionally obtuse. I know perfectly well that slavery is brutal, unfair (couldn't think of a more powerful word), and detestable, to soy the absolute least. I know that it held back the black population about a century, which is pretty considerable in a country only around for a few hundred years.
No, I don't really do anything actively about it. I'll make sure any stupid redneck using the 'N' word as an insult knows what an ignorant fuck he is, but that's about it.
My head is not in the sand. My head is firmly on my shoulders. I don't have money to donate to the NAACP, I have no influence in hiring. What the fuck do you expect me to do? Find some random black guy who looks poor and give him all my money? It would seem that you are pretty comfortable with your head in your ass.
I had no part in U.S. (or colonial U.S.) slavery, nor did a single one of my ancestors. Why should I feel responsible about it then? I'm not going to ignorantly deny that it happened, it did. Sorry for the luck of any of your ancestors who may have been sold by his own people into slavery, or even the very few who may have been "ripped from his land." Still doesn't mean I care in any measurable way about it right now.
I DO know a bit about the history of slavery, and its modern-day impacts are quite obvious, although how they manifest themselves are arguable. However, a lot of time has passed since slavery was abolished, and there have been recessions and booms in the economy. People have gone broke and become insanely wealthy. Almost all had to work fucking hard for it. It wasn't given to them because they were white.
If you want to succeed, you can. It has nothing to do with the color of your skin. If you work hard enough at something you are skilled in, you will become successful. Yes, there is racism. It is not as widespread as some would have you think, however. I live in West Virginia. Well-known to ignorant fucks as a very racist place. It isn't. And the people who are? Yup, they're poor and blame it on black people (no idea where that conclusion comes from, they can't really handle much thought before passing out). They also work on family farms, fix cars, and certainly aren't in hiring positions. So what does it matter? Ignore them as long as they don't directly affect you, and they don't. I ignore all the fucking skinny people who make fun of me for being fat. It's a trait. As is having different skin.

> Why should an anti-racists walk on eggshells because some racist prick is going to cry foul?

They shouldn't. They also shouldn't shout from all corners about how hard life is. Get over yourself, life is fucking hard for almost everyone.

> The racist elements [...] are going to fight tooth and nail to hold on to the gains they have received from exploiting other people.

And those gains would be? Oh, you can't pick one because it is baseless B.S. What is there to gain by keeping certain people poor? Other than the obvious "poor-people-vote-Democrat-which-we-don't-want," reaction, which is uncertain at best. I'm white (duh). What have I gained by holding you back? I haven't, so don't blame me for the bad attitudes of a very few, who in most cases, are not in any position to affect your life in any meaningful way.

> It's up to you to understand the issues and not just side line them because you don't think they effect you.

No, it's not. It's up to you to understand that most people have enough issues of their own to deal with before worrying that you're pissed off. You have every right to be pissed off, but you have NO right to tell me who I am, what I know, what affects me.

> You may not concider your self a racist, bu

Re:This is a good thing

[hesiod]

> What's so offensive about cylinders

My initial thought as well, but they don't mean piston cylinders. Your brakes have (a) master/slave cylinder(s), as Glonoinha pointed out..
I had the same confused look as you.

Re:This is a good thing

[hesiod]

> > Isn't it a bit egotistical to assume that "slave" must refer to a black person?
> It does'nt.

Correct. But in stating that, why do you have to continue with:

> American history is'nt going to change and the people living in the american present are connected to that past

That information (however true or untrue it may be) is not necessary to the topic. The topic has NOTHING to do with race or even the concept of slavery. It's descriptive and very accurate. That's why it was used.

> Unless of course the slaves rise up, kill the master take his horses and flee
> It's not a good analogy unless you deny the humanity, wills and desires of the slave

Again, has no bearing, as we are talking about inanimate objects that cannot flee, nor are they "oppressed." You are inserting frivolous emotion into a debate where it does not apply. You are trying to play up emotions and angers to force people to agree with you because, IYHO, anyone who disagrees is a racist. Of course, as per your other post, any White American is a racist, so the point is moot I suppose. A slave drive has no humanity, it is not human. A slave cylinder has no wills, it is not intelligent. A slave processor has no desires, it is not alive. So Yes, IT IS A GOOD ANALOGY. Man, you're arguing with someone on your OWN SIDE (generically) -- it makes my job a lot easier.

> Don't you think it is odd that the term "master/slave" is so accepted

No, it is not odd, it is a word. It is a descriptive word. A word, when crossing boundaries of use, does not carry connotations with it unless someone specifically makes it, such as yourself (how dare you oppress that poor word?). It doesn't matter if the word is "slave" or "blargargle," its meaning is its meaning.

Should we outlaw the use of the word "gun" because some people (a lot, really) know others who were killed by one? Changing the word does not change the problem. Should we call it a "Subservient cylinder?" That's what it is, in a manner, changing the name does not change the task it performs.

> the populace of a country that benefitted from slavery more than any other in the modern era

Total benefit, sure. You seem to insinuate, however, that the U.S. would be much further behind if we had not had slaves from the start. Of course, that means that you might have been born in Africa under much worse conditions. That is not the point. The U.S. probably would have gone further FORWARD if it had not happened, as we would have a large number of more intelligent people longer ago. So how can you claim that we have somehow gained from it? I'm not going to be a COMPLETE asshole and suggest that no one has gained, as that would be a lie. But just because a few individuals gained, it does not mean that the country as a whole (or your more ignorant assertion of white people in general) has gained a single thing.

> Don;t you think that maybe the angst against the use of this term is actually part of a larger cultural movement that maybe you would do well to research?

No.

Angst against a word is futile and misdirected. Get denied for a job because of skin color (not just claim it, have proof)? Fuck 'em up -- sue them for everything you can get. I'm all for it. But don't tell me I'm a bastard because I'm not handing out money left & right. I have barely enough for my right hand.

Re:This is a good thing

[SpacePunk]

"Second, why the hell is it so hard for people to have a little empathy, especialy when their own history practicaly dictates that they should. "

Exactly why should I have empathy?

Re:This is a good thing

[xeno-cat]

The reason I thought you might be trolling was because you claimed there was no reason that more blacks go to prison than whites. There is a reason and the reason is racism. It just seemed like a classic Troll. It also highlights the importaince of being clear with language, which is really what the story submission is about. If you do not think that racism is the reason for the disproportionat prison populations than you should explain what you think is. But I can assure you there is a reason.

"...please tell me what you honestly believe needs to be fixed instead."

The problems are many but let me focus on the concept behind "Reparations" in order to illustrait my point.

People who benefitted from racism in the USA were able to build equity in things such as land and business opportunities. These opportunities were not available to minorities. For example, white soldiers returning from WWII were eligible for low cost mortgages and educational loans that were not made available to black people. So while a generation of suburban white families were building family wealth and educating their young, black families were not sharing in the rush of prosparity following WWII.

Fast forward to today and you have inner city families living in the projects with children who may wounder why they are in the position that their in. Why don't their families have any wealth? Were they just lazy and stupid while the rest of the country was partaking in the post WWII economic boom?

When there is an economic disenfranchisement of this sort it goes well beyond the racism of individuals and becomes an institutional racism. It causes the symptoms you mentioned in your list like drug use, gangs, etc. These are repsonses to an unfair and unequitable system. Those symptoms can feed a racist feedback loop to those who identify them as the cause. This creates a level of individual racism that compounds and confuses the core issues which is that some people have been denied equal access to the opportunities that would help them improve their lives.

Now, "reparations" is supposed to undo the economic despartity that has been in place since slavery. It is also trying to make good an a Governmental promise of 40 acres and a mule for all freed slaves, which never was really implemented. Now, whether it is practicable or even the right thing to do is certainly questionable but the problem it is trying to redress is very real and quantifiable.

Getting back to the IDE "master/slave" thing I am mainly just a little shocked at the level disregard I see coming from this community. It is a testiment to the amount of work that still needs to be done on the front of racism.

Kind Regards

Re:This is a good thing

[xeno-cat]

I'm not saying you need to go out into the world and dedicate your life to ant-racist work in order to make up for something you personaly were not involved in. What is importaint, as a citizen of a country, is to recognise that countries problems and at least not directly argue against their resolution.

"However, a lot of time has passed since slavery was abolished, and there have been recessions and booms in the economy."

Governmental racism ended at least by letter of the law in the 60's, well within the current generations "window if impact" so to speak.

As for how you are benefitting by being white you simply won't see it, and thats the point. There are obsticles and inequities that you don't see when you try and get hired for a job, or get pulled over by the cops or find yourself in court. I'm not saying it's easy for you, or for me, but it's harder for a minority and the reason is racism.

For a more detailed look at the economic argument I have been making please see the second paragraph of this other post here. .

"'You're a dirty fucking racist because you ignore others' problems. Have a Nice Day.' (BTW, I know you didn't swear at all or implicitly insult anyone, but that seems like the tone.)"

No, I don't mean to say that. I actually felt similiar to some of the people that are posting here until I really did some investigation a few years ago and had an "aha" moment with regards to the economics and other less obvious aspects of modern day racism. I'm a little disturb at how willing people are to totaly fly of the handled wih regards to this issue, but than again, racism has never been a particularly easy issue to talk about, so I add salt to taste.

Kind Regards

BTW: I say "Kind Regards" mainly to remind myself to stay as civil as possible

Re:This is a good thing

[Rick BigNail]

"You may not concider your self a racist, but if you are white in America you are benefitting from a racist system and your innaction on attempting to undo those elements that are benefitting you because of your skin color is tacit support of racism, at best."

I think maybe you don't understand what PetWolverine is trying to say. He is saying the means do not acheive the end. Even if a person is not racist i.e. someone who thinks race has direct correlation with ability, it is still logical for him/her to come to the conclusion that in certain environment the correlation exist.

Also not doing anything maybe better than doing a bad thing, or have a wrong policy. That does not mean that someone do not care. It means that when a decision is to be made to undo elements and impact of past injustice, the decision must be firstly effective and not have too severe side effect.

You may be interested in this article by Glenn C. Loury (by the way he is african american)
http://www.bu.edu/irsd/articles/howtomn d.htm, in particular the section Logical Stereotyping.

PS You may be able to deduce that I am not a native english speaker. I came from Hong Kong, raised in the middle class family, have above average IQ but below average EQ, introvert and below average communications skill (am I disadvantaged? Need special help?) I think that the best we could ask for is to stop systematic unjust law and policy but rely on non profit organisations to achieve our goals.

Oh, not only a little bit plato, but also some aristotle...

Re:This is a good thing

[xeno-cat]

Thanks for the article link, it was an interesting read.

From the article:

"Logical stereotyping
One such reason for questioning the wisdom of affirmative action is that the widespread use of preferences can logically be expected to erode the perception of black competence."

"Notice that a lower hiring threshold for blacks causes the outside market to reduce its estimate of the productivity of black successes, since, on average, less is required to achieve that status."

This is a racist view of affirmative action and illustrates the very mind set that it was implemented to combat. The goal of Affirmative Action is simply the redistrabution of wealth, opportunity and social connections. All the things Mr. Loury mentions in his article. Affirmative Action is not something that is expected to exist for all time. Thus there will be a beginning, a middle and an ending to the process. We are somewhere between the beginning and the middle I think. This is a dangerous time because the reasons for first implementing it are not as clear yet the fruits of the end game have not yet been harvested.

Mr. Loury suggests spending money on improving black colleges and training opportunities for blacks. That is certainly a hard case to argue against and I won't. By all means spend the money. However, it does nothing to combat the exclusionary racism that exists in the hiring process and so the less ideal but more practical quotas of Affirmative Action are still needed.

Regarding his comments concerning the Asian community, with all do respect, Asians were not enslaved to the level that the people of Africa were. There is not the same dynamic to the racism that exists between whites and blacks. Black people were specificaly targetted by white people for lynchings, burnings and all forms of horrible crimes.

You wrote
"I think maybe you don't understand what PetWolverine is trying to say. He is saying the means do not acheive the end."

I understand his argument, he just does'nt understand that he is describing a form of racism.

PetWolverien Wrote:
"They simply read the news, hear time and again of racial minorities making life difficult for their employers, and become wary of hiring them."

That is the racist mindset. These are the people who are the problem, not the job applicants. These people need to be dragged kicking and screeming if necessary into the modern world.

He is also ignoring the evils that are trying to be redressed. He would rather skip to the end game where we all live in a post racism world and nobody is discriminated against. But we can't just skip to the end, we have to the work in the middle. Not everyone is going to like it. Especialy those who have the most to loose in the process. But there is an inequity here in the form of historic disenfranchisement and soceity is attempting to correct it. Progress has been made, but judging from the news and anger here on Slashdot their is still quite a ways to go.

Kind Regards

Re:This is a good thing

[hesiod]

> recognise that countries problems and at least not directly argue against their resolution.
> Governmental racism ended [...] well within the current generations "window if impact" so to speak

These, I mostly agree with. The first, obviously, but the question in this case is "How do we recognize these problems?" Are we truly seeing the problem or is it just the symptoms? Really, no one can answer that, but I probably don't know enough about socioeconomics to make an argument that will hold up (nor am I any good at debating -- that's why I swear :).
As for government racism, yes, I conveniently (intentionally) overlooked that even though I knew it was a pretty easy counter. I hold the belief (without much good reason) that after another generation or two, everyone around during segregation will be dead. At that point, the "blind racism" should disappear much quicker, although there will probably be remnants for another century, since some people (family lines) simply choose to be jerks/idiots.
Unfortunately (hehe), we have freedom in this country, and they are free to be ignorant if they want to. Not much you can do about it, but telling them they can't think a certain way is analogous to telling them they can't sing a certain way.

> I'm a little disturb at how willing people are to totaly fly of the handle

I think that's because it IS a heated issue and most expect the other to fly off the handle. They can "beat them to the punch" and start off that way. Admitting my faults is one of my strong suits, so I will admit that I fell victim to this as well.

> Kind Regards

I apologize for being a jerk by putting words into your post that were not there, it is very nice to say things like that regularly.

Re:This is a good thing

[xeno-cat]

"I hold the belief (without much good reason) that after another generation or two, everyone around during segregation will be dead."

Time will hopefully heal all wounds. It does seem that the world is headed for a more equitable future, but it's not for the lack of effort of millions of people.

"Are we truly seeing the problem or is it just the symptoms? Really, no one can answer that,"

Must... resist... temptation... to counter...! ;)

"I apologize for being a..."

Don't bother, this is Slashdot. They can smell your fear.

thanks for having this descusion out with me a few rounds. I've learned some things from the torrent of posts on this issue.

Kind Regards

Re:This is a good thing

[hesiod]

> Getting back to the IDE "master/slave" thing I am mainly just a little shocked at the level disregard I see coming from this community. It is a testiment to the amount of work that still needs to be done on the front of racism.

I have little problem with most of your statements, although I disagree with some of them. But this is absolutely ridiculous. We disregard this because it is stupid. As many others have stated, slave != black. AT ALL. OUR history of slavery is about black people, but the word itself has no race attached. What our disregard is a testament to is that we are interested in using proper/most appropriate terminology. When I think of my slave drive, I don't think of slave trade. Nor should I, because that is not what it's about.

This has zero to do with racism, and only a few think that it does. You seem like a relatively level-headed individual, but it is asinine to call me racist just because I use a certain word (other than 'n*****' of course, which has no current usage other than racist).

I'm not a bad person or even slightly racist because I don't cave to "Political Correctness."

Re:This is a good thing

[Bugmaster]

Ah thanks -- I did not know this, but in retrospect I should have guessed, seeing as brakes are hydraulic. Doh.

This makes more sense than the "phallic symbol" idea that the other poster mentioned, but I have to admit, his idea sounds cooler :-)

Re:This is a good thing

[Rick BigNail]

I think I am going a bit off topic bringing in affirmative action. But the issue is what is the best action to take. It will only annoy people if you blame and link whatever problem you face to your race. Just like some Chinese Canadians always mention how our ancestors in Canada faced unjust discrimination whenever the chance arises. Also talk to the real people that were thought needing help. They may not want the help in the form provided, because the help does not work or makes things worse. (Mr Loury is not an armchair professor or economist but has real insight in the race issue since he is 'in the field' to work with blacks/hispanics.) From my experience, most people are not racist at all, although some of them may still be more comfortable with people of the same race and color -- I am living in Vancouver Canada. You really do not want to alienate these people by 'pulling PC and race card' ALL THE TIME. The slashdot crowd are not average people. The responses here should not be taken as general opinions of the public.

Re:This is a good thing

[xeno-cat]

"but it is asinine to call me racist just because I use a certain word"

Yes indeed. I don't want to push anymore hot buttons because I am largely done with this thread. Thanks for taking the time to argue this out for a bit.

Let me just close by stating that if someone had a problem with me using the "master/slave" terminolgy I would not use it. If American history were different I might just give a quisical look and ask what the deal is. But american history is what it is and I really don't need to stretch to far to see where the sentiment comes from.

It may be a white person or anyone who has a problem with the terms BTW. For example, I even cringe sometimes but then maybe I'm just more sensitive to the issues than most. Obviously I spend time thinking about issues of racism.

Anyway, I think I understand the "in your face" attitude your were expressing by using the very words that canote racism while simultaniously claiming you are not racist, which btw I'm not accusing you of ( we are all subject to it at certain levels ). I just don't really agree with the line of reasoning that leads to those statements as the very power of such a statement is dependent on the existaince of racism in the first place. But that discusion is for another ranting perhaps. In the end we are all just trying to figure out whats best.

Kind Regards

Re:This is a good thing

[Glonoinha]

You are not alone in believing that Reparations were due those most greatly harmed by slavery and injustice in America inflicted upon the black people. It has been said over and over that America could only be forgiven if it went out and obtained a massive expanse of land, fertile seacoast land perhaps on the African continent, gave free transportation for any so harmed person that desired, helped in the establishment of a social infrastructure and with cash loans / grants of money and supplies to help the new people get started in the development of a new country of free people allowed to govern themselves. Nothing else would be enough - even Louis Farrakhan said as much.

I agree 100%. You sound like you would also agree, ya? The late President Monroe also agreed - in fact he agreed enough to actually make it happen. In the early 1800's (ie, 1816 the first ship (the Elizabeth) sailed and shortly thereafter a second ship (the Nautilus) arrived. A nation of Liberty (Liberia) was born. It wasn't any easier for the initial settlers than it was for the Pilgrims that landed in America, well maybe a little because the American Congress made available to the new settlers some American advisors to help them build their new infrastructure, money and supplies to help it happen.

Every newly freed person that was interested was given his 40 acres and a mule, or the rough equivalent, in a new country made up Of, For, and By those most recently harmed by slavery in America. Not 7 generations down the line, but the actual people who had been slaves.

http://mo.essortment.com/liberiahistory_rkew.htm

Google : history Liberia Monroe for more details.

The question as to whether or not 'Reparations' is a good idea is no longer relevant as they have already been made in a very large way. The question becomes - ok, now what?

Maybe a year ago I gave much thought to that question and wrote a massive diatribe that now of course I can't find. The basics, however, mirrored my own life. I can talk with authority on this subject because I was even more disadvantaged at 17 than most African Americans : from a one parent family, abusive alcoholic father, poor, no money for college, kicked out of the house three weeks before I graduated from high school, nowhere to turn, no real job opportunities, nothing but the clothes on my back.

Well that isn't exactly true. My only material possessions were the clothes on my back but I also had self discipline, the understanding of the importance of education, and a militant distain for drugs (my father was military so that is where those came from - ingrained in my upbringing.) My father was a high school dropout, not particularly good at staying out of trouble, and a lifer in the military. I don't approve of his methods but he left me with those things and the belief that if I wanted more for myself education was the key.

The basics for black prosperity in three easy steps :
Step 1. An entire generation of young black men and women join the military. Therein they learn self respect, discipline, respect for authority and honesty, the ability to provide for themselves, and most importantly a strong military discipline. Start on some random date and every single person without exception join the military for say ... the next 20 years.
Step 2. They marry each other and have a single or maybe two legitimate children. They stay married and raise the child together. In the military they have safe housing, good schools, good medical, and protection from gangs, drugs, and crime, and a reasonable income (some of which is saved / invested for Step 3.)
Step 3. 18 years later the first of the babies from these unions are graduating from high school (all of them with self discipline and self respect, and respect for the importance of education) with enough money set aside in Step 2 to go to college. 100% of them go to college with the discipline to graduate with college degrees

Re:This is a good thing

[xeno-cat]

"I agree 100%. You sound like you would also agree, ya?"

No, actually I do not agree with the reparations argument. I think it is silly and simple minded. However I know the underlying issues are very real, even in this day. when the economic effects of racism become apparent the issue suddenly becomes a whole lot clearer.

Regarding your upbrining I will never try to take away from someones experiences in their own life. You say your life was hard and I beleive it. It's just that a black person would have the added disadvantage of working against a system that is racist. I'm not saying that every person is a bigot, but in totality the American system is very hard on non-whites.

"The question as to whether or not 'Reparations' is a good idea is no longer relevant as they have already been made in a very large way. The question becomes - ok, now what?"

First of all, does'nt it seem the hight of arrogaince for the USA to "give" land in Africa to freed American slaves? What rights does the USA have over the lands it used to create Liberia? Second, there were millions of people in the USA who were do reparations. Thirdly, this does not deal with the problem of racism at all. There are so many problems with the Liberia policy that it is simply to much to get into.

The question of reparations has certainly not been settled. The post WWII economic issues I refered to in my previous post were not settled by the founding of Liberia.

"The basics for black prosperity in three easy steps :"

Oh dear. Suffice it to say that I do not agree with this.

Kind Regards

Re:This is a good thing

[Glonoinha]

-The question of reparations has certainly not been settled. The post WWII economic issues I refered to in my previous post were not settled ...

Here is $4.17 Billion dollars in prosperity, settled firmly in the hands of 5 black families.

1. Robert Johnson
(BET founder)
$1.5 billion
2. Oprah Winfrey
(Harpo Productions)
$1 billion
3. John Johnson
(Publishing)
$600 million
4. Bill Cosby
(Television)
$540 million
5. Bruce Llewelyn
(Coke-Cola Distrib.)
$530 million

Come to think of it, Kobe Bryant just spent $4M (four million dollars) on a single ring, a piece fo jewelry, for his wife. The $4.17B listed above, plus Kobe's $4m diamond ring, would very easily cover any and all reparations that Liberia didn't cover. The money is there (over four billion dollars,) in the hands of the black community for use by black people.

--"The basics for black prosperity in three easy steps :"
-Oh dear. Suffice it to say that I do not agree with this.

Oh man that's a crying shame, because that is the best odds they are going to get. Throwing money at the situation isn't going to fix it because I just showed you over four billion dollars in the hands of five black families (totally excluded the $300M that Mike Tyson spend last decade, $250M Puffy is handling, Jordan and Jackson get overlooked also) - if four billion dollars won't do it no amount of money will. The only hope for the future is this equation : discipline, education, prosperity. First generation gets discipline in the military, second generation inherits that discipline and enough money for college and gets education, passing both down to the third generation to enjoy as prosperity. If you think Colin Powell's children are having any problems in the workplace, think again (Michael Powell is the head of the FCC.)

Still completely open minded on the subject, if you do not agree with that - then what? We know the problem, what do you propose as a solution?

Re:This is a good thing

[slyxter]

primary/secondary is already taken. 4 hard drives in one system means:
Primary master
Prmiary slave
Secondary master
Secondary slave

Master/Slave

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder how they are going to stop their vehicles if they can't have master or slave brake cylinders.

I guess they also no longer have master documents, and the ships coming into the port of Los Angeles probably no longer have any one in charge (Ship's Master).

Is plumbing next?

[RevRa]

I used to work in the IT department of a plumbing company and frequently got the giggles about things the plumbers would discuss in the break room; Ballcocks, nut rings, etc.

I guess they'll have to change those words in LA too.

Re:That's all very well... Troll feeding....

[�nertia]

Damm strait I can. I knew this guy at highschool, his parents were wealthy and imigrated from PNG when he was 16. They "Employeed" 2 PNG "Natives" the who if I get the story right, were forced to work "pro bono" for the parent because their sun did something to some livestock...

Might I also add the sex slave trade in the Lower European quater is pretty active I hear. I also hear the same from parts of South east asia...

Re:Nazi drive Jew drive

[glenstar]

I asked why and she said....what if they called it Nazi drive Jew drive....and immediately I understood.

But they didn't. Nor did they call it a white drive/black drive. They called it master/slave, where master means "One that has control over another or others" and slave means "one who serves". Is master/slave not a good term for master/slave drives?

My wife is one clever lady.

Listen, man, I don't know your wife... I'm sure she is a smart lady... but saying what she said was not "clever"... it's the same kneejerk PC crap that almost everyone in the US is saying now. I mean, imagine what could happen if someonee used the word 'niggardly'? Should they be forced to resign? Or, do you think that the asswipes behind the controversy would realize they were jackasses?

It's defined in the Dictionary!

[prozac79]

Go to Merriam-Webster Online and lookup "slave" in the dictionary. You will see that one of the technical definitions of "slave" is "a device (as the printer of a computer) that is directly responsive to another". This is one of the official meanings people! Do we now need to change it and append "except in L.A. where someone who didn't know anything about computers was offended for no reason".

And besides, what is wrong with the words "slave" and "master"? Yes, slavery itself is wrong, but the word itself is not. It does not refer to a specific race, creed, religion, etc. There are plenty of words that are used in our language that could have a bad connotation if taken in the wrong context. If "slave" is wrong in a computer context, then her are some other things that are not correct:

• Mouse: vermin that spreads disease so that has to be renamed to "x/y coordinate changer"
• Joystick: sexual connotations so that has to be renamed to "gamer's handle"
• Motherboard: too much bias toward a certain gender so that has to be renamed to "parentboard"
• Hard Drive: again, sexual connotations so that has to be renamed to "magnetic storage device".

Any use of these old words will result in immediate imprisonment and fines.
-prozac79
"Making email fun again, one letter at a time"

Take a note from Depeche Mode...

[BrynM]

Rename it "Master and Servant".

Re:Take a note from Depeche Mode...

[Anonymous Coward]

"It's a lot like life!"

Re:Take a note from Depeche Mode...

[advocate_one]

"Rename it "Master and Servant"."

That's just as bad. Bringing with it tones of class war. Perhaps, we should call them "Comrades", holding an election to see who gets to be "more equal" than the others...

Tee hee!

[theonetruekeebler]

Okay. So, when I was working for Georgia Public Health on some clinic management software, we decided that reindexing all those Clipper .NTX files should be a distributed task. One machine was set up as the controller, and other PCs on the LAN asked it which table to reindex next. During the implementation discussions, we always referred to the machine doing the telling as the master and the machines doing the work as the slaves.

The team on this project was about half black and half white. I was having an animated discussion with another of the (white) programmers when a couple of the (black) programmers came in. They watched the discussion for a little while. I looked up at them, and one said, "Don't say slave."

"No?" I asked.

"Nuh uh," he replied, with just slightly too straight a face.

So I bet my career: I turned to the other (white) programmer and said, "Fine. So the Massah machine needs to hold record counts in the array so it can..." and everybody cracked up. We discussed terminology a bit, and decided to call the controlling box the "controller" and the indexing boxes the "indexers." About 70% of the folks actually using our application were black, we figured, and not too savvy on computer terminology, so fuck it: we caved, just to be on the polite side.

Moral: we all had a good laugh. Here in Atlanta proper, there are more white than blacks. In state government, there is plenty of minority representation. And we all get along pretty damned well---I was voted the second whitest white boy in the office by the (mostly black) administrative staff (and damn was the whitest white boy pissed).

I'm increasingly convinced that the people we're trying desperately not to piss off are not minorities, but liberal white jackasses who think they're under some sort of obligation to rescue all those poor defenseless minorities from oppressive words. Most actual black people can look after themselves, and, having better things to worry about, tend not to give a damn.

Re:Tee hee!

[MalachiConstant]

I'm increasingly convinced that the people we're trying desperately not to piss off are not minorities, but liberal white jackasses who think they're under some sort of obligation to rescue all those poor defenseless minorities from oppressive words.

I have to agree with that. I edit a local hip-hop interview/video show and it always baffles me that I have to edit the word nigger out of the interviews. The record companies already take it out of the videos.

I mean, clearly the people saying it aren't offended by it. We have a show called Queer Eye For The Straight Guy, why not a hip-hop show called Nigga Beats produced by black people? Because all the suburban white mothers would be shocked and offended. Context is what matters with words like this, not the words themselves.

Re:Tee hee!

[CowboyRobot]

I was in a group of people of various races, and the subject of race came up. I mentioned that I was bi-racial, waited a moment, and then said, "I'm half-Anglo and half-Saxon."
Only the black people laughed. The whites and Asians all gave me stern looks.

Re:Tee hee!

[theonetruekeebler]

Whenever I get fill out a form that asks me for my race, if there is a box for "Other_____" I check it and write "honkey" (and for country I write "Estados Unidos", but that's another thing).

Hopefully I've cheered up some poor bored clerk. Even more hopefully, they went ahead and entered it into the computer, skewing their marketing demographics ever so slightly.

In truth, if it's a government agency's form, they probably held a meeting to decide whether to classify me as white or to add a record to the ethnicity table. See, no matter what a person tells you their race is, that's how you have to enter them. Billy D. Williams could stand in front of you and tell you he's an Eskimo, and that's how you have to enter him. If I haul my lilly-white ass down to the health clinic and tell them I'm black, they have to check the box that says I'm black. Hell, even if Michael Jackson tells you he's black, you have to enter it that way.

Time was in the U.S., the government decided what you were. Mixed-race problems were handily solved by considering any "dilution" of the white race to be overriding: even fifteen years ago an observably white Mississippian lost a court battle against a state law that said that since her great great great grandmother was black, she was black!

Re:Tee hee!

[/dev/trash]

And I'd wager that 2% of the blacks in that office were actual descendants of slaves.

Re:Tee hee!

[Ixitar]

I was at one customer site that had very dirty data in its database. One of my coworkers was writing a cleanup program. One of the types of records that was being cleaned up was company. He wrote an application where the user dragged one company record to the good record "Good Company" and then dragged one record to the bad record "Bad company" drop boxes. He used the icon of a building with a halo over it for the good company and the bad company icon was a red building with horns.

I thought that it was funny and very creative, but I told him that someone would take offense. He did not believe me until a manager saw it and told him to change the icons.

Re:Tee hee!

[theonetruekeebler]

Nearly all blacks whose families have been in the United States for at least three generations have at least one ancestor who was a slave.

Re:Tee hee!

[Anonymous Coward]

Nearly all blacks whose families have been in the United States for at least three generations have at least one ancestor who was a slave.

Most likely quite a few of these people have an ancestor who was a slave trader. Slavery was going on in West Africa long before slaves were taken across the Atlantic.

Well!

[El]

This is going to require re-writting some history textbooks and a lot of old songs! As well as a few protocol specifications. Who is it that's actually offended by this terminology? Does this mean dominatrixes can no longer advertise their services in El Lay county? Yes, I think it IS possible to be TOO politically correct.

You've just invented the mouse un-adaptor!

[wwwrun]

If the adaptor had pins on one end and holes on the other, it wouldn't be an adaptor at all! It either wants to have two sets of holes (M-to-F), or two sets of pins (F-to-M). Think about it.

Re:You've just invented the mouse un-adaptor!

[FunWithHeadlines]

Yes, yes, but I was going for humor and it sounded funnier my way.

Re:You've just invented the mouse un-adaptor!

[Anonymous Coward]

We have some of those un-adaptors. Male on one end, female on the other, and no cable between, i.e. just an adaptor. And non of the connections are crossed either.

I still haven't figured out what they are supposed to be used for.

Re:You've just invented the mouse un-adaptor!

[JCholewa]

> We have some of those un-adaptors. Male on one
> end, female on the other, and no cable between,
> i.e. just an adaptor. And non of the connections
> are crossed either.

> I still haven't figured out what they are
> supposed to be used for.

It could be one of those security dongle things. Our big label printer uses that. The label making program runs in limited mode if this device is not between the parallel port and the printer cable.

Additionally, some male to female (or vice-versa, if you will) connectors can limit current to avoid signal overload.

And you can stack them together to make cool pretend space ships.

--
-JC

How Asinine.

[Venner]

the grain of salt for those which are simply ridiculous

As is web weaver for god's sake. A good change? Ha. A master does not imply evil doings. A martial arts master or a master carpenter generally don't have slaves. Master implies that they the best at what they do. Yes, it also implies authority, but not cruel domination. Gah. People drive me insane. Some of these offended groups are probably the same ones that burn 'inappropriate books.' Pooh on them.

I'd rather have lived a hundred years ago. Except of course, for all my grumbling about rampant political correctness and other hogwash, I'd be much more pissed about the lack of women's suffrage, real racial inequality, and the other issues of the day. The moral? There isn't one really.

Re:How Asinine.

[sjwt]

" A martial arts master or a master carpenter generally don't have slaves."

ever herd of an apprentice?

=>

Re:How Asinine.

[Hektor_Troy]

Some of these offended groups are probably the same ones that burn 'inappropriate books.' Pooh on them.

Where do I sign up for that prerogative?

Re:How Asinine.

[1u3hr]

As is web weaver for god's sake. A good change? Ha. A master does not imply evil doings.

Here I think the perceived problem was not master:slave, but master:mistress.

I see that most actresses seem to be "actors" now. But they still have a separate Oscar. If they were consistent, there'd just be one Oscar for "Best Actor". It's not like muscles and sexual organs have much to do with acting ability after all.

Re:How Asinine.

[corbettw]

"It's not like muscles and sexual organs have much to do with acting ability after all."

I think these people would disagree.

Re:How Asinine.

[julesh]

I see that most actresses seem to be "actors" now. But they still have a separate Oscar. If they were consistent, there'd just be one Oscar for "Best Actor". It's not like muscles and sexual organs have much to do with acting ability after all.

No, but in order to perform well as an actor, you need to have a good, challenging role to play. Almost all roles are assigned to somebody of a gender which was predetermined before they auditioned, so it could be unfair to one gender group in a particular year if all of the good roles are given to the opposite group.

Re:How Asinine.

[julesh]

Apprentices aren't slaves. At least not in the majority of cases. Admittedly, they're underpaid and maltreated a lot, but they always have the choice to walk out. It may not be a sensible thing to do, but that doesn't change the fact that it is possible and totally legal for them to do so.

Re:How Asinine.

[gfxguy]

You raise a good point! I'm going to complain to the academy because their refusal to have a "best transgendered actor" is insensitive.

Master of the house
Quick to catch your eye
Never wants a passer-by to pass him by


I guess Les Mis. should be banned, too!

Re:How Asinine.

[gfxguy]

Oh my goodness, gag me - even my political correctness was politically incorrect... "actor" is most definately a male. It should be "best transgendered thespian".

Re:How Asinine.

[Anonymous Coward]

In the medieval trade guild system in which apprenticeship first appeared, it was actually a potentially capitol offense for an apprentice to abandon his master. They didn't want potential competitors outside the guild monopoly, so they tended to burn their houses.

Re:How Asinine.

[meznak]

Some of these offended groups ...

The first time I read this line, I read it as "off-ended"... as in "off the deep end"

Re:How Asinine.

[ahodgson]

>A martial arts master or a master carpenter
>generally don't have slaves.

You obviously haven't been to my dojo.

I can be less PC than "Master/Slave"

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm going to start referring to my hard drive configuration as "whitey/nigger."

I'll call up Seagate tomorrow: "How do I set the jumpers for 'nigger'?"

I am also going to email my Electrical Engineering profs to ask them to start referring to "Master/Slave flip-flops" as "Whitey/Nigger flip-flops."

-Anon

Is South Park gonna be banned?

[superangrybrit]

What about the homo duo(Mister Garrison and Mister Slave)?

Is there gonna be a Homos parade in that town to show support for the mister slaves in your household?

Singular They

[LPetrazickis]

In informal contexts, I always use the singular "they". Fuck, it's been part of the English language for seven centuries. Just because Latin-misinterpreting prescriptive grammarians didn't like it doesn't mean it's a bad idea.

Re:Singular They

[dbIII]

That's correct "she" for "they" is an Americanism, the rest of the world just uses "they".

Re:Singular They

[TwinBeam]

I agree - I've been doing this pretty consistently (to the dismay of the grammatically constipated) for about 25 years now. I'm not going to inflate my writing with "he or she" or "his or her" or some nonsense word like "s/he" when I can use a perfectly functional and commonly understood "they" or "their".

If someone doesn't like it, they can go stick their head in a lake.

Re:Singular They

[sharkey]

Fuck, it's been part of the English language for seven centuries.

But what about those of us in the United States? Around here, "fuck" is considered to be a *dirty* word, and an insult to address a person or persons as "a fuck" or "fucks".

Re:Singular They

[cyb3r0ptx]

If you're that afraid of the Thought Police, just use "she". Those shrill feminists and feminine men won't object. Who knows, it may get you some extra PC points.

Re:Singular They

[some guy I know]

they can go stick their head in a lake.

That should be "he or she can go stick his/her head in a lake".

--
ironic-humor-impaired guy/gal

Re:Singular They

[|/|/|||]

Maybe it doesn't bother you, but I feel weird using "they" where it doesn't fit. I just use "he," in the way that the English language has worked for centuries. "He" or "his" can be gender neutral, as in:

"If anyone wants to look at the code, he can just grab it out of CM."

It's obvious that "he" refers to any person, male or female. "He or she" is just unnecessarily clunky. The "he" in the sentence is just a placeholder, an example. It implies that if "he" can get the code, then "she" can also.

Re:Singular They

[Tackhead]

> > Fuck, it's been part of the English language for seven centuries.
>
> But what about those of us in the United States? Around here, "fuck" is considered to be a *dirty* word, and an insult to address a person or persons as "a fuck" or "fucks".

Whereas being called a "fucker" is value-neutral.

If I called you an insightful fuck, you'd kinda blink at me and wonder what I was talking about. Whereas if I called you an insensitive fuck, you'd know exactly what I was talking about.

But if I say "That sharkey, he's an insightful fucker", and you overheard it... or if I came up to you and said "Dude, you are one smart fuck", you'd also know exactly what I meant, and you'd know I was giving you a compliment.

(The English Language: "What the fuck? What the fucking fuck fuck?" :)

Re:Singular They

[BobPaul]

They isn't, and never will be singular in the English language. It's a common misconception. Don't believe me, get an english degree...

SCSI still has the master, but.

[IBitOBear]

Since the master of the SCSI bus is also the controller the word doesn't come up until you get into the protocol. At the surface it is the controller and its targets...

So, by induction a large selection of our country is made up of targets and the sons and daughters of targets. oh...I don't think that will go over very well, especially with the target-shooting association of america.

Once you vilify a word, instead of its usage, you deprive your self of thought.

The only real solution: "Marklar." Once every person, place, or thing may only be referred to by the gender neutral non-biased "Marklar" then we will be free to progress as a society.

After that you will have to know and fully understand and appreciate that each/every individual whiny self-entitled waste-of-flesh Marklar possesses those vaccuous lack-of-worth traits simply by context... 8-)

YOUR DOOM is only what you let others legislate it to be.

Re:SCSI still has the master, but.

[toast0]

I've recently dabled in scsi, and the controller was refered to as an initiator; since you can have multiple initiators on the bus.

Re:SCSI still has the master, but.

[Anonymous Coward]

After that you will have to know and fully understand and appreciate that each/every individual whiny self-entitled waste-of-flesh Marklar possesses those vaccuous lack-of-worth traits simply by context...
I think what you mean is:
After Marklar, Marklar will have to know and fully understand and appreciate that each/every individual whiny Marklar-entitled waste-of-Marklar Marklar possesses those vaccuous lack-of-Marklar Marklars simply by Marklar.

Much more ambiguous ;)

Re:SCSI still has the master, but.

[IBitOBear]

I haven't had too look sideways at SCSI in about six years so I guess they got the multiple initiators thing working.

Of course, if you look a the box your SCSI [wahtever] card came in, I bet it still says "controller" 8-)

i checked my drive

[Anonymous Coward]

it says "MA" on it.

this is an outrage, an offense to all the down-home whitebread little, redneck, podunk, white trash, [kickass!] mothers in the U.. S.. A!

And for next weeks agenda

[Evets]

We will be proposing the excorsizing of all daemons from *nix systems.

I, for one,

[RoboProg]

welcome our new politically correct overlords^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H masters^H^H^H^H^H^H^ primaries???

On second thought...

I, for one, suggest they shove off!

(sorry)

This has clearly become a game

[ifwm]

Anyone with any kind of publicly sanctioned "difference" attempts to find anything that may in some way be construed as offensive. By doing so, they gain prestige as the person who discovered a new source of offense.

[no subject]

[Xoder]

You Token-Ring Lover!

May the force be with us

[Tuross]

I hope George Lucas doesn't live near this county, otherwise Star Wars could end up as crap as ST:TNG.

Darth Vader exhaling "now I am the Primary!" (or whatever the watered down, "inoffensive" replacement for 'Master' is) isn't terrifying, it's ridiculous. Any nearby Jedi would certainly die alright, they'd be rolling on the floor laughing so hard they'd fall off the gangways into open space!

And "Sir Yoda" (or whatever inoffensive title replacing 'Master') saying stuff like "Always two there are, a Teacher and a Student" (since we can't use Master, and Apprentice is most likely an evil term also) makes me think when 300 years old he reached, wise as good he is not ;)

Altering language is a standard tactic used by occupying invaders to strip a people of any sense of emotion, self-respect, and community - since ineffectual pansies too scared to even say something "out of place" (let alone do) are a lot easier to control and keep submissive.

Re:May the force be with us

[hesiod]

> they'd be rolling on the floor laughing so hard

...they'd be choking on their laughter. It's Vader's newest form of evil suffocation.

BIOS screens

[codepunk]

Alright who is going to rewrite all the BIOS screens to make them politically correct?

Genderless connectors

[clone22]

Will we not be able to have male and female ends on our 1/4" audio cable for fear of offending the transgendered? How the hell am I supposed to shop for wires now?

This might fill the bill, however the name, Power Pole might cause some to take offense.

I guess this means...

[JRHelgeson]

In place of Master/Slave, we could use Primary/Secondary - an acceptable substitution.

What the hell should we call the server then? Oh my gosh, we've got a server room that is chock full of hard drives configured as masters/slaves.

Re:I guess this means...

[Ramadog]

In place of Master/Slave, we could use Primary/Secondary - an acceptable substitution.

That would make my drives
1st hd - primary primary
2nd hd - seconday primary
burner - secondary seconday

But where does that leave my floppy?

Degeneracy in physics...

[hkfczrqj]

I remember a story told by my classical mechanics professor... One day, while he was a student, he was reading a paper, I think it was called Degenerate Canonical Transformations. Then his girlfriend* arrived and read the title of that paper. She looked at him and she asked: 'Are you some kind of pervert priest?'

Cheers...

*He actually had a girlfriend while he was studying...

Re:That's all very well... Troll feeding....

[Anonymous Coward]

*sighs*
So you *didn't* actually bring me a person who was *actually* affected as a slave. You know someone who knew someone. Good for you. Now, tell me, what *exactly* do one of these people have to do with the L.A. County's officials? Nothing? Nothing. It is offensive in the extreme that some ivory tower official should decide on _someone_ _else's_ _behalf_ that they should be offended by something. In fact, it is very much akin to the master/slave relationship that they are so self-righteously critical of: THEY are making decisions for SOMEONE else, who doesn't have ANY say in the matter. Can you spell "irony" ?

The cost of doing business

[Anonymous Coward]

The first rule of doing business is:

The customer is always right.

If the customer says they want their new toy to be green and purple, you as the seller are obligated to make it so, or you face losing a customer!

Now all these "extras" will cost the customer. Be it a few hundred dollars per machine to have hard drives created with a special IC board where the master, slave, and single references are removed and replaced with generic terms like A, B, U. Another few hundred to create special "L.A." manuals.

In the end you could be looking at a standard $1,000 PC being sensitized for an additional $1,000 to $2,000.

If that is how L.A. wishes to spend their tax dollars so be it. For those who live outside of L.A. (like myself) stop compaining, for those who live inside L.A., one word RECALL.

For Everything Else There's Mastercard

[ONOIML8]

Legal fees to determine potential liability for using discriminatory wording such as "Master/Slave": $34,426

Cost to terminate all IT hardware purchasing contracts and renegotiate: $238,492

Cost to remove all labels with the words "Master" and "Slave" from all existing county equipment: $4,643,893.24

Waking up to find out that you, Joe Sandoval, have been exposed before millions of Slashdot readers for the dumbass that you are: Priceless

sheesh

[frink_exp]

Why does the system favor the ignorant and stupid? Then again, perhaps G.B. Shaw had it right:

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."

Then again, 'unreasonable' and 'ignorant' aren't quite the same thing. Wait, yes they are. No, you're just ignorant. Well you're being unreasonable...

Still photographers banned too?

[YouHaveSnail]

Still photographers use flash units that are designated 'master' and 'slave,' so I guess L.A. County won't be hiring any photographers or buying any flash photography equipment. I could see that being inconvenient for a county that encompasses Hollywood.

What the?? Hello, Free Speech??

[borgheron]

These terms when used in the context of describing the relationship between two pieces of hardware is innocuous and has been used this way for half a century.

What were they thinking??

GJC

One Person, One Lousy Person...

[Nom du Keyboard]

someone within the County bureaucracy -- a person who probably didn't understand computer terminology -- had taken offense at 'master/slave' references and complained to the board, whereupon the Internal Services Department was obligated to issue notification requesting that vendors refrain from using that terminology.

One person. One lousy person gets upset and it is expected that the whole county -- and soon the whole country -- should change to suit them.

I think it would be great if absolutely no manufacturer is willing to comply with this idiocicy.

Re:One Person, One Lousy Person...

[Todd Knarr]

They're not sending the letter to the manufacturers, just the distributors/vendors who sell the products to the county. Since the manufacturers aren't going to do custom production for as small a quantity as LA County buys and they know the distributors/vendors have to buy drives regardless, I don't see the manufacturers changing their terminology. The vendors aren't going to take on the costs of custom documentation etc., so I suspect LA County will soon be in the position of either reversing that request or not being able to buy hard drives at anything below quadruple list price.

no surprise

[syrinx]

I think California is way overdue to be falling into the ocean.

On the plus side, reading responses to this article has probably increased my foes list by 1/3 or something. We may not be able to get (-1, Stupid) moderations, but being able to put stupid people on my foes list is even better, since I never have to read their stupidity again. And while the majority of Slashdotters were sane in this article, we did get quite a few idiots responding. (Yes, anyone defending this is an idiot. Stuff it.)

I use a dumb terminal

[dubiousmike]

you insensitive clod

Re:I use a dumb terminal

[AvengerXP]

I am a terminal and i object to being called dumb. Please refrain from such talk, or ill be forced to use SYSREQ on your ass.

clueless in marketing...

[thepoolguy]

About 10 years ago, I was chastized by the marketing department of the company I was then employed by for using the term "promiscuous" in a networking interface data sheet. The marketeers only relented when I proved to them that this was a technical term by showing our competitors data sheets. The above company is no longer in business...

When you don't know anything about the product you are buying or selling, others may find cluelessness as offensive.

Of course, being so clueless as to try to remedy the situation by removing possibly offensive language only proves how clueless the offender is.

-tpg

Prime/Vice

[heironymouscoward]

How about this:

Primary Prime Drive
Secondary Prime Drive
Primary Vice Drive
Secondary Vice Drive

I like it, and no-one can complain about the use of the word "vice" in California.

Proposal

[EvanED]

Can there be a moderation category for comments like this that deserve like a +7 Hilarious?

I have just four words:

[dswensen]

Tax dollars well spent.

Today Hard drives, tomorrow the world.

[Condor_25]

I can't wait until they discover that the LDAP server they got the addresses to send the memos to, or the DNS server that allows the Internet and their Internal E-Mail systems to work all have Master/Slave relationships.

Heaven forbid they use other file/databse/mail replication systems...

TIP: Invest in SCSI Drives, I have a suspicion that LA County will be buying them soon. ;-)

master/slave banned, but "Fucking" legal on tv?

[zapp]

Isn't it fucking rediculous that the FCC thinks it's a fucking good idea to allow the fucking word 'fucking' on tv as an adjective. fucking brilliant.

At the same time, these California dipshits ban the term master/slave.

Enola Gay

[JRHelgeson]

Hill Air Force Base is located in Ogden, Utah. Up at the AFB is the rather impressive Hill AFB Museum that has several aircraft from past to present.

Well, Hill AFB was going to be the proud recipient of the Enola Gay, The WWII aircraft that dropped the first Atomic Bomb on Hiroshima.

Well, the copy editor at the Ogden daily newspaper, the Standard-Examiner replaced the word "Gay" with "Homosexual" so the headline read 'Atomic Bombers Upset Over Enola Homosexual Exhibit.'

Williams Aide Resigns in Language Dispute

[goodviking]

More than an odd look.

Doncha get it?

[Tablizer]

California wants to be like France! The laws, the liberalism, the taxes, the P.C. censorship, mimes/clowns (M.J.), etc.

Re:Doncha get it?

[Simple-Simmian]

Actually most of it doesn't just LA and the SF Bay area.
This map shows a roughly of how this all is in reality.
The majority of the state hates this stuff and would just as soon these people go away.
However this is the kind of thought that dominates the Democrat party in California.
Just as the Republican is dominitated by a bunch of Orange county loosers.

Re:Doncha get it?

[Tablizer]

Man, don't go ruining a perfectly good stereotype using maps and facts :-)

I can't laugh at this stuff anymore

[HarveyBirdman]

The saddest part is that no one in any position with any influence or power will stand up against things like this. Everyone, including the vendors, will bend over and take it hard and long. The marching morons will forever triumph as long as ideology rules the mind of humanity.

We can make fun of it all day here on Slashdot, but nothing will be done about it. The idiots will win this one, just like they win all the others.

It's far past the point of not being funny anymore.

Re:I can't laugh at this stuff anymore

[bigmouth_strikes]

Hear hear.

Anyone remember the guy that was fired for using the word "niggardly", which is a perfectly good word with no racist undertones. ( http://www.adversity.net/special/niggardly.htm for instance)

In other news

[smclean]

This is another big "hot topic" in L.A. county right now. Try not to pay too much attention to this stuff or you will go surely go insane.

'In late January, this year, Sheriff Lee Baca, Los Angeles County Sheriff called a talk show in Los Angeles. The hosts of the show had "dared" public officials to call the show and defend their support for higher vehicle taxes. The pair questioned rhetorically whether officials would "have the gonads" to defend their positions on the air. Sheriff Baca called, and after a brief debate with John Kobylt and Ken Chiampou of the popular "John and Ken Show", offered that "if you wonder whether or not I have gonads, why don't you invite me down to the office there and I'll come there and show you what I've got." This was unequivocally an offer made over public airways to visually display his genitals. Clearly such a statement made by a deputy sheriff in an environment as public as the one Baca chose would result in sanctions for any number of department violations.' --The Harris County Star Them equating Baca threatening to show them what he's got meaning he actually means to expose himself is the same as saying that John and Ken meant that there was literally nobody who had the sexual organs necessary to defend their position.

Ack, I'm paying attention again.

Sean

Conversation Overheard in LA County Hall

[stygar]

Jim: Allright already! Sheesh, here's your twenty bucks.

Bill: Thanks - I told you they'd fall for it.

Jim: I still can't believe they took that seriously. Hey - what happened to your suggestion that we make vendors refer to DB25 gender changers as "Transgendered Serial Interfaces"?

Bill: It's on the agenda for the next council meeting...

top/bottom

[Anonymous Coward]

I like to refer to my hard dive relationships as top and bottom. It's much more PC.

Devil's Advocate

[guacamolefoo]

Everyone is ignoring the good part about this story -- the twits who are bitching about hard drive terminology are bitching about hard drive terminology. That's actually (relatively) good news.

Think about it: They could be meddling elsewhere in a way that could cause real damage.

Tempests in teapots (which is what the above controversy really is) constitute self-inflicted meatspace denial of service attacks (or maybe honeypots) for people who don't know any better. Remember -- when they get wound up about something like hard drive terminology, it prevents them from doing something really dangerous, like passing Patriot Act 2 or 3 or whatever we're up to now.

Count your blessings.

GF.

Re:Devil's Advocate

[Anonymous Coward]

OTOH, these tempests in teapots serve as a heck of a distraction so the Ones In Charge can go about passing Patriot 3 while everyone else is too distracted by silliness.

I know, never ascribe to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity, but still...

The Only Way To Be Offended

[nate nice]

The only way that this can possibly be offensive is if a database the county keeps records of the citizens with has 2 drives such that white peoples records are stored on the "Master" and black peoples records are stored onto "Slave". I'm assuming this is not the case.

Role reversal

[E1v!$]

Didn't this guy notice the designated 'master' connection on the cabling is black?

Re:Role reversal

[Bartmoss]

That's probably why he took offense.

scnr.

Re: Word Cleaning

[Anonymous Coward]

I am not trying to be funny or offensive - just informative or insightful. Just look at who the registrant is.

Here is a domain that you will never see:

nigger.com Back-order this name

Registrant:
NAACP (NIGGER4-DOM)
4805 Mt. Hope Dr.
Baltimore, MD 21215
US

Domain Name: NIGGER.COM

Administrative Contact:
Posenau, John (FUKINRCCVI) jposenau@naacpnet.org
4805 Mt Hope Drive
Baltimore, MD 21215
US
410-580-5702 fax: 123 123 1234
Technical Contact:
Bell Atlantic Internet Solutions (WSS-ORG) DOMREG@BA-DSG.COM
1880 CAMPUS COMMONS DR
RESTON, VA 20191-1512
US
800-475-7840 fax: - - 703-453-6770

Record expires on 20-Jan-2008.
Record created on 21-Jan-1998.
Database last updated on 24-Nov-2003 22:49:48 EST.

Domain servers in listed order:

NS.APDI.NET 64.215.93.30

Re:That's all very well... Troll feeding....

[�nertia]

I wondered when we would steer back to this. I agree censorship should be the decision of the viewer, I beleive this is the only real "Moral" way of viewing enacting protection. Of course you get into problems in todays society of mass media, and marketing where the choice to view somthing is either out of your control or requires too much effort to warrant.

I think this is the key issue here, as already mentioned the use of gendered sexual terminology is actually standardised as part of ANSI egineering standards. This is potencially a far worse thing than master/slave. But it's a similar issue.

The fact that there is an industry standards body who dictates what these little bits of wire and plastic are called, takes said ability to self censor away. The general public can't NOT use these terms to gain access to these bits of plastic. for the M/F argument there is that the labeling of such Bits of plastic emphasises the inequality. The inequality part is the same as for the Master/Slave. It's the perception that the Social dominant group (The Tech manufacturers and Industry standards organisations) are proliferating these concepts, from which there is no escape.

You know what, there is good evidence that this isn't too far from the truth. It may be innocent conception in the lab, but it has real concequences for those groups to which the sterotypes are applied to, maybe not because of the engineers, but because of the fact it's a self perpetuating prophsy, than maintains the traditional notion of segregation.

Theory is all i'm arguing for here. Government intervention needs to occur not at this level but at the organisational standards level, and I beleive that this has occured during the 90's where MOST, not ALL standards bodies are aware of these issues now and that it's worth spending another 10 minutes thinking of equally appropriate descriptions than enraging alot of people. Once somthing like this is in it's a few slow road to change the name.

FUTURE INDUSTRY CHANGES

[superpulpsicle]

So we can't use master/slave, and force the entire industry to change standard names.

They should shut down IBM since they supported the NAZIs way back.

They should also bring down Microsoft, because Bill Gates (William Gates III) in DOS Ascii code sums up to some satanic number.

They definitely need to bring down Dell, cause it rhymes with Hell.

Some other things to tell them

[fcw]

In C++, a friend can access your private member.

In Unix, parents fork to create children, execute them, then kill them.

You can buy things that let multiple male connectors plug into a single female one at the same time.

And if you pay enough, it's possible to get uninterruptible power.

(But we'd better not let any politicians know abou that last one, eh?)

The onion

[Cyberllama]

Surely this is just another one of those "Major News outlet accidently picks up story from The onion" things. . . right?

I like the female plugs better

[Denver_80203]

Male plugs are just icky

What in the wild world of sports !

[Anonymous Coward]

Does this mean i can't play Depeche Mode's Master and Servant while visiting LA ?

left part out:

[JW Troll]

..in addition to revised terminology, the master drive must be painted black and the (formerly enslaved) drive must be white to compensate for years of oppression. Remember, the important thing is getting the colours and labels right.

The Gimp?

[GQuon]

a guy in a wheelchair who was sure I was making fun of him
Then he should really not be tought image processing on *nix.

Re:The Gimp?

[Boing]

a guy in a wheelchair who was sure I was making fun of him

Then he should really not be tought image processing on *nix.

Or about different MP3 encoders.

Re:The Gimp?

[sulli]

Or, if castrated, about Unix itself.

-1 redundant pedantic wank

[Anonymous Coward]

where oh where are the mod points

+1 Insightful!

[Anonymous Coward]

You know it is.

Remember, if you mod the parent post troll...

YOU ARE A NAZI.

you don't want to be a nazi, do you?

THEN STOP CENSORING THOSE WHO DON'T CONFORM TO YOUR GROUPTHINK!

Corporate Slave

[KalvinB]

Some corporate lady stopped by the kid's pizza place I used to work at and asked me to grab her a salad. I made some comment about being a corporate slave which she didn't find funny.

My boss told me that his boss wanted to talk to me. He told me to be a good little slave and keep my jokes to myself.

Personally my view is that I'll be happy to be a slave for a good King. However society has deemed that "slave" is necessarily a bad word so oh well.

We got "bling" and "shiznit" in the dictionary so we're still on par if we lose "master" and "slave."

The english language is getting too bloated.

Ben

Audio Recording

[Equa1izer]

Hey and what about Mastering. Master copy. MIDI Slavering.?:)) ....So maybe some of this patriarcho shit ought to go away. I think spokesman ought to be spokesperson. I think chairman ought to be chairperson. I think mankind ought to be human kind, but they take it too far, they take themselves too seriously, they exaggerate. They want me to call that thing in the street a personhole cover. I think that's taking it a little bit too far. What would you call a lady's man, a person's person? That would make a He-man an It-person. Little kids would be afraid of the boogieperson. They'd look up in the sky and see the person in the moon. Guys would say come back here and fight like a person. And we'd all sing "for it's a jolly good person." That's the kind of thing you would hear on late-night with David Letterperson. You know what I mean?....(C) Carlin

Re:GOT A PROBLEM WITH THE PATRIOT ACT, LIBERAL PIG

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, because this country was founded on the idea that if you disagree with us you should just get the hell out. No room for argument around here.

Re:Nazi drive Jew drive

[Anonymous Coward]

Well the niggardly is a very funny actually. People of African descent call themselves "nigger" and has varing meanings both with hate and with friendly joking....ie the "What's up niger" One or two g's, I do not know the spelling for I am not accustomed to writng the word or using it....

If the spelling of that work were the same, then I think there would be a legitimate complaint. All I can say for my self is today when I thought I was sensitive to racial and ethnic problems, I learned something today.

So for the people in Ca who think that the application of master slave in referring to a relationship between two drives...... its indeed a poor choice of wording.

Re:Hmm... replacement suggestions

[guzzloid]

OK. Which end? ;-)

I can't believe the reponse to this...

[badmammajamma]

People are actually surprised by this??

This is nothing. Many years ago IBM banned use of the term "motherboard" since it could be considered offensive to some mothers. Instead they call them "mainboards." They also won't use the graphic of a tree in an icon becuase some Japanese might consider it offensive since the tree could look too much like a mushroom cloud.

Corporate America has been leading the way for political correctness for many years. Apparently some of you didn't get the memo.

Fucking Marxists!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yet another chapter in the pussification of America.

I can't wait until that whole shithole state falls into the ocean.

Next they'll ban the use of the word "secondary" in reference to IDE channels, as we can't have any losers. Every channel is equally important... Karl would be proud of this new classless peripheral development.

Fuck L.A. County. Fuck them up their stupid asses.

And in other news....

[vudufixit]

"Master and Commander" narrowly escapes being banned under this provision, as well, thanks to a large generous cash donation by Russell Crowe to the Democratic Party.

We must clean up the language

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a black thang.

You wouldn't understand.

I have a solution for Los Angeles.

[methangel]

The Master drive can now become the "Pimp" drive, and the secondary drive can be the "Ho" drive. We can also have a Secondary "Pimp" and secondary "Ho."

Problem Solved.

LA County is....

[cc_pirate]

Crazier than a bunch of shithouse rats.

George and Tony?

[Nexus Seven]

How about George and Tony?

Seems like an ideal Master/Slave replacement.

Switch to Cracker/Nigger terminology

[Anonymous Coward]

or how about massa/nigga?

BigBlockMopar in University...

[BigBlockMopar]

Their job is to make sure the cops get paid and the street lights work. It is NOT to re-invent Think-Speak.

Tell me about it.

How about this, which happened to me in University. Note that I don't care about race, disability, sexual orientation - none of that is relevant to whether or not I like (or will hire) someone. But I *hate* political correctness and I avoid it at all costs.

Picture it. In the hallway, just after I missed a question on a math test, where I had to integrate a function of e * trig. (Otherwise, did okay on the test.) Chatting with classmates.

"Well, I think the problem is that I don't integrate very well."

Stranger in the hallway who overhears:

"Oh! That's *horrible*! You're a terrible person! No one chooses the color of their skin! You could have just as easily been born black, you know! It's people like you who keep society from progressing!"

So, in unison, we (all Engineers) looked at her and laughed. At her.

"You're *all* horrible people! This is university! Campus KKK! I'm reporting you to the dean!"

Suffering idiocy as well as I do, it was I who took up the task of dealing with her.

"I would invite you to report that to my dean, I'm sure he'll laugh at you at least as hard as I laughed at you. Let me guess, you're in an arts program, right? In my arts elective, the instructor started by asking our entire class if we had our purple crayons. Things only went downhill from there."

[Indignant gasps from the chick... who was wearing wooden sandals in late October.]

I continued, "...Now, seeing as how *you're* the ignorant one..."

Screaming now, "How *DARE* you call me ignorant! You're the one who said you didn't like to integrate!" People were stopping to see this woman lose it on me. This hallway connected two science buildings, an engineering building and one arts building, so most of them were starting to laugh at her, too.

"You're *ALL* in on this! What's wrong with you people?" She was getting worked up to tears, all the angst of a comfortable middle-class childhood showing.

A big black guy who had been watching and kind of laughing from the beginning told her that he hated to integrate too, then walked away, leaving her stunned.

Me again: "Now, seeing as how you're the ignorant one, integration is a mathematical process for finding the area under a curve. It's from a branch of mathematics called calculus. Your wooden sandals and amazing ability to jump to unfounded conclusions have only served to reaffirm my belief that calculus is the distinction between a degree and toilet paper. You, honeybunch, are an idiot."

And with that, we left. I think she was having a stress attack when we walked away.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Excen]

Seeing as how this story is probably made up, I hesitated to give you accolades for the story, but the line about calculus was friggin priceless! Keep up the good B.S.!

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[BigBlockMopar]

Seeing as how this story is probably made up, I hesitated to give you accolades for the story, but the line about calculus was friggin priceless! Keep up the good B.S.!

Thanks! But it's true. The dialog is paraphrased; as close as I can remember it.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm pretty sure we're hearing the version you *wish* you had said after thinking about it later.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn, you sure showed bigotry and intolerance in your description and assumptions about this girl. Maybe she misheard and embarrassed herself, but it turns out you are, in fact, an asshole.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[CowboyRobot]

Similar experience in which I said, "The problem is that we just aren't able to discriminate well enough..."
The angry glares were from people who thought I meant 'be prejudiced' while I simply meant 'distinguish'.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[BigBlockMopar]

I'm pretty sure we're hearing the version you *wish* you had said after thinking about it later.

Of course! But I still got to call her ignorant, I still welcomed her to contact the Dean of Engineering, and I still made fun of her wooden sandals and pursuit of an arts degree.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[BigBlockMopar]

Similar experience in which I said, "The problem is that we just aren't able to discriminate well enough..." The angry glares were from people who thought I meant 'be prejudiced' while I simply meant 'distinguish'.

Crazy, huh? Heh... I could just imagine what the uninitiated and hyper-sensitive would have thought of a discussion of RF tuning circuits.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[BigBlockMopar]

Damn, you sure showed bigotry and intolerance in your description and assumptions about this girl. Maybe she misheard and embarrassed herself, but it turns out you are, in fact, an asshole.

Wow. Well, you know, the shoe would have been on the other foot if I'd overheard her talking about the coloring books their mid-terms are based on and jumped to conclusions about those.

*SHE* assumed that my friends and I were racists.

*SHE* demonstrated her naivete and hypersensitivity.

*SHE* is the one who started screaming at me.

*SHE* learned that I am, in fact, an asshole. And proud of it.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[heresyoftruth]

You are now my hero! I knew there was a reason I was taking calculus right now!

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

...and we wonder why Engineering students have a bad reputation and can't get laid...

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn, you sure showed bigotry and intolerance in your description and assumptions about this girl. Maybe she misheard and embarrassed herself, but it turns out you are, in fact, an asshole.

Look, if it upsets you that much, post your address and we'll be glad to mail you a hankie - a nice, pink one to go with your politics!

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

In this particular instance, the quality of that humor quite justified the response. Not to mention the girl's response was far too quick and based on insufficient knowledge. Hopefully she will now be wary of jumping to conclusions quite so fast.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

You dumbass, you missed a great chance to score. A smart sexy beast like me would have taken here to the side, told here she heard the part about integrating out of context, invited here for cup of coffee to have a "deep" conversation about integration and how multicultural I am. If all things go well, a kiss + a huge + a little butt squeeze would be granted without prejudice.

I suppose a geek will always be a geek.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

Simple point. You reported this event using a description like "big black guy". The best way you could describe this person was by his size and the color of his skin? I have many interests in both humanities fields and science related fields, and I can absolutely hold my own in both. To dismiss someone as "artsy" is too simplistic and narrow-minded. Do you ever do a computer science problem set saying that there's no way that's it's related to biology? Your language betrays you. Please complexify what you say or stick to integrals instead of telling stories.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

Your wooden sandals and amazing ability to jump to unfounded conclusions have only served to reaffirm my belief that calculus is the distinction between a degree and toilet paper. You, honeybunch, are an idiot.

But wait, you forgot the rest of the story! Then like, three big muscular art majors came up to you and was going like "Are you bothering that lady you nasty republikkkan rightwinger?" And they thought they were so cool? And you like, smack, pow, totally kicked their asses cause you are even quicker with your feet than with your wit and know kung-fu, and they were totally frightened and ran away, and then lots of cheerleaders wanted to have sex with you?

True story. At least, just as true as the rest of it.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, you always will be.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[abolith]

Holy fucking shit! as I paroused your comment I laughed so hard I Snarfed my damn coffee! Sometimes it is really good to be an EE student :) (studying for my BS.EE at Cal Poly Pomona)

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[LarsWestergren]

Well, you know, the shoe would have been on the other foot if I'd overheard her talking about the coloring books their mid-terms are based on

Wow, I think that is about the third time in this topic you make the assertion that arts subjects is about coloring books and crayons. Lots of easy karma points from dittohead Slashdot moderators when you pick on strawmen. You must be a very smart man in comparison, studying these incredibly difficult engineering subjects.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[David McBride]

I hate to break it to you, but right now you're reading Slashdot. No calculus here, nuh-uh.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[jeremyp]

The colour of his skin was relevant to the story.

I think they treated the woman who was obviously the victim of a misunderstanding quite poorly, but I wasn't there. Maybe her initial remark was quite aggressive, in which case she probably deserved to be wound up. It might stop her from leaping in with both feet on the basis of incomplete information in future.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

arts students may be colouring in....

but they ain't virgins sadboy!

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

Holy fucking shit! It's "perused". And English is not even my first language. Good luck with your impressive engineering "edumacation".

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[ddimas]

What did you major in puddinghead, modern (BLEACH!) art?

Me, I'm a mad scientist. At my salary you'd be pretty mad too.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

What did you major in puddinghead, modern (BLEACH!) art?

English, and Computer Science. How about you, puddinghead? :-) /LarsWestergren

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

complexify

Is it good to be back, GWB?

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

For f***'s sake, the girl is attending college and doesn't even know what an integration means, she's the asshole

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[basingwerk]

... and why they are confined to tiny cubicles...

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

You're such a fucking bullshitter, BBM.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[DrMaurer]

Yeah, but if you got a degree in liberal arts, at least you could have made it interesting.

But forget about me, I'm just bitter it took me about 3 years to get a job with my B.A., and I even know some calculus (enough to know what you were talking about).

Stupid Heinlen missed the correlary: specialization is for insects, and people who want jobs.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Smedrick]

Being a student of both, I can assure that he's not very far from the truth.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah, shut it. These raging PC college radicals come from comfortable backgrounds and turn into suburban conservatives with age. It's these same conservative apple pie types that demand those "explicit lyrics" stickers, after all.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[ddimas]

Chemistry, minor in Philosophy.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

Even though she probably had unshaved pits.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

Stupid Heinlen missed the correlary: specialization is for insects, and people who want jobs.

Heinlein wasn't stupid; he could at least spell "Heinlein" and "corollary."

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

I had the same thing happen to me.

After spending all night helping some friends cram for a Comp Sci II exam, we agreed to meet at the famous chicken wing resturant called Hooters.

The next morning while waiting in the hall for the exam session, one of the friends noticed that I looked like crap and wondered if I had a chance to review the test. I told him that I was exhausted and only had one thing on my mind Hooters. (I prefer chicken wings and beer over exams any day!)

Well, a girl walking down the hall over heard my comment and took offense. So she stalked me. After the exam, I met my friends at the student union to get lunch. When I left, she approached my friends and told them they need to find a new friend since she, being a christian, she was offended by my comment.

The strange part was that after my friends assured her that I was referring to the resturant, she replied that she knew that but still felt like kicking my ass anyway. Which by the way is the christian thing to do.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

Chemistry, minor in Philosophy.

All right, thanks for answering.

What I objected to was the fact that he was automatically assuming that someone was an idiot because of their education. As both you and I prove, you can study (*gasp*) more than one subject. Lots of arts students I meet are pretty bright people too. (Of course, I haven't met many US art students, perhaps they are different from Swedish ones).

Of course, that particular woman (if the story was true) seemed, among other flaws, to be a bit prone to jump to conclusions. But his assertion that engineering is the ONLY education worth anything sort of rubbed me the wrong way. If someone is acting stupid, will mocking them help them get better? How about showing your fellow human beings some respect? /Lars

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[mj2k]

Ironically the Texas A&M administration has decided to enforce such PC positions - we now have a diversity vp with a salary of $170k+ to ensure A&M is friendly to a small minority of minorities who prefer to blaim their failures on bigotry rather than accept personal responsibility and do something about it. These people need to come to grips with the fact that this world isn't perfect. Face it, all of us discriminate every day. Gosh, when I look for a gal to date I am pretty damn particular - what's next, are the PC police going to redefine diversity to include diversity of appearance, and force me to date unattractive girls in order to "level the playing field"? On second thought, maybe that wouldn't be too bad, as long as the law applies to supermodels as well.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Mark Gordon]

Dunno how BBM is doing, but I'm married to a research chemist. There are plenty of women out there who've taken calculus; you don't need to settle for stoopid ones.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[strike2867]

Of course, that particular woman (if the story was true) seemed, among other flaws, to be a bit prone to jump to conclusions. But his assertion that engineering is the ONLY education worth anything sort of rubbed me the wrong way. If someone is acting stupid, will mocking them help them get better? How about showing your fellow human beings some respect? /

Didnt hear him say that engineering was the only education. But come on, integrating. Anyone that doesnt know what it is should be made fun. Its should be a right. Replacing that last Patriot act 2 crap they just passed on us.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[PitaBred]

I think public humiliation really should be re-instituted. I hate how people can commit crimes and no one knows who they are. The only true pressure a lot of people feel is social, so what do we do? We lock them up for a few weeks with like-minded sociopaths, then let them back out. That's the way to rehabilitate someone. I'll bet that if you knew your grandma would find out what you had done, you'd think twice about doing it.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[BobRooney]

It wasn't so much that it was a woman, but rather the epic conflict between the fuzzies and the techies. Those striving for their B.S. or B.E. degrees in University typically have certain disdain for their classmates who take nothing but fluffy liberal arts classes and then brag about their 4.0 GPA... This is particularly true when the Engineering programs are hyper-competative and highly regarded. Why go to an engineering school and major in humanities? Regardless of the program strength, there is always a certain void between the two academic tracks, and as such there is enough tension to create many situations like the one the Author decribed...several come to mind based on my experiences as a Comp. Sci Major in an Engineering College.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Almost-Retired]

I doubt its made up. In my 69 years, I have pulled off similar putdowns several times.

OTOH, it just goes to enforce the idea that politicians are like diapers. Both should be regularly changed, usually for the same reason.

Cheers, Gene

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

But you did jump to conclusions.

*YOU* assumed (based solely on her sandals?) that she was an art major.

*YOU* assumed (based solely on her angst?) that she had had a "comfortable middle-class childhood."

*YOU* assumed (based solely on her ignorance of calculus?) that she was an idiot.

If you had gone through life only having encountered one use of the term "integration," you might have made the same assumption. That's not to say that she didn't overreact, but her reaction simply means that she feels passionately about the issue. Hopefully you will agree that that isn't a bad thing.

What bugs me is the assumption that she is worthy of ridicule for not knowing calculus terms, whereas it's perfectly okay for YOU not to know much about HER major. She might be ignorant, but you are both ignorant AND arrogant.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[adrianbaugh]

Damn, I think that's the funniest anecdote I've ever read on slashdot - lucky I wasn't drinking coffee at the time or I'd be shopping for a new keyboard about now :-)

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

Doubt it. Nice story ... even though you're full of shit.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[ddimas]

Actually the problem is the humanities in the US have an attitude problem. The problem is called "Political Correctness" (aka PC), which purports to be an answer to the problems of racism, but really is a way to practice thought control. The young lady in question was reacting to a trigger word (integration) and the overheard fragment, relating to calculus, "I hate integration." Her response was to attempt to stifle the conversation (which she did not know the context of) by acting outraged. Mockery and derision is an entirely appropriate response to that kind of thought control. Note that none of the particapants in the conversation were actual racists.

I do agree with you that no one should be considered an idiot because of their education. Unfortunatly the spread of PC, especially in the humanities, has caused many students in the US to leave University acting like complete asses. And no they do not show any respect for anyone who disagrees with them in the least.

Which brings us back to the idiotic LA story about master/slave IDE drive designations being objectionable and now illegal in LA county.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

She was deserving of ridicule... ...and so are you!

Social Justice: A Liberal getting slugged in the teeth

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

Why go to an engineering school and major in humanities?

By your own words, it's not an "engineering school." It's a UNIVERSITY. You don't go there just to learn engineering. You go there to get an education. You need both tracks, or it's just a trade school.

there is always a certain void between the two academic tracks, and as such there is enough tension to create many situations like the one the Author decribed

There is tension in the real world. Should we segregate all of humanity?

This thread is a perfect example. As one who has seen both sides (two degrees, in music and computer science), those few on the "arts" side of this discussion are the clear winners. They are responding with reason, whereas the engineering types are pretty much basing their argument on a specious denigration of the "fuzzy," "fluffy" arts as a whole.

The engineers have a peculiar sort of myopia which makes them assume that taking an easy arts elective qualifies them to judge Art In General, which is just as absurd as a liberal arts major judging all of mathematics and engineering on their experiences in College Algebra -- the difference being that the former happens, and the latter doesn't.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[filmsmith]

Agreed. I, too, read slashdot and studied the Fine Arts (hence the handle) and am quite offended by BlockHeadMopar's assertation that we're all bleeding-heart liberals who wouldn't know a processor from a potato chip.

As a storyteller, I still find the story horribly amusing and as a mathmatically inclined person (I did VERY well in Calc in particular in my school days), respect your satirical vantagepoint in this overdramatacized meeting. However, I'm also terribly opposed to broad generalizations. Maybe you might want to make friends with an artist or two. We just might surprise you with our intellect in YOUR field as well. And if not, some of us weave pretty good stories.

fs

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[drxenos]

That has to be one the most intelligent responses I've read on Slashdot. My compliments.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[t0ny]

Then like, three big muscular art majors came up to you

*Now* we know you made that part up!

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

I had the same thing happen to me.

[followed by a story that hasn't got a single thing in common with its parent post]

I was referring to the resturant, she replied that she knew that

Because she was offended that you would even patronize the establishment. She understood you perfectly... YOU are the one who doesn't understand.

Which by the way is the christian thing to do.

In my experience, that is christian thing to do -- using your friends against you, leveraging peer pressure to get you to convert.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[dublin]

It wasn't so much that it was a woman, but rather the epic conflict between the fuzzies and the techies. Those striving for their B.S. or B.E. degrees in University typically have certain disdain for their classmates who take nothing but fluffy liberal arts classes and then brag about their 4.0 GPA...

It also has quite a bit to do with the fact that colleges have completely forgotten that a liberal arts education should be the *foundation* of a technical one - in the medieval and renaaissance universities that ours *should* be based upon, one was required to master the tivium (grammar (facts of things), logic, and rhetoric) before being allowed to advance to study the quadrivium (arithmetic/mathematics, music, geometry, and astronomy).

Real liberal arts is NOT fuzzy or wimpy, it's just that there are only a very few places one can get a REAL liberal arts education anymore...

On another note, I'd like to propose "Judge/Citizen" as an approriate and entirely politically correct alternative euphemism for the terribly insensitive "Master/Slave" nomenclature. I can think of no case in recent history where the two are not synonymous - to be honest, we have lived under a judicial hegemony since the 14th amendment abolished both state and individual rights in 1865...

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[ddimas]

Thanks.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

If this is your story, a "sexy" beat you are not.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Awptimus Prime]

You can't pick out the art majors by sight? I bet you didn't get much pooty-tang in college.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

He assumed only one of those things: Her ignorance of calculus, which was a very well justified assumtion:

When you see a bunch of people standing outside the math department door with dejected looks staring angrily into small packets of paper and complaining about integration or differentiation, it's a safe assumtion they are talking about calculus. Now, you come along, and you assume they are speaking about race identity, it's a very safe assumtion you don't know calculus.

Her upbringing and major are assumtions that those who are attacking him (you among them) made. So now ask yourself, who is the bigot here?

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[smack_attack]

Maybe he got aroused while perusing; Thus paroused?

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

He assumed only one of those things: Her ignorance of calculus

I didn't accuse him of jumping to the conclusion that she's ignorant of calculus. I accused him of jumping *from this* to the conclusion that she is an idiot. "Ignorant of calculus" and "idiot" are not the same thing.

Her upbringing and major are assumtions that those who are attacking him (you among them) made.

Can you read? I will quote from the original story:

Assumption 1: "Let me guess, you're in an arts program, right?"

Assumption 2: "She was getting worked up to tears, all the angst of a comfortable middle-class childhood showing."

Assumption 3: "You, honeybunch, are an idiot."

Why are you defending this jerk?

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Pitawg]

and force me to date unattractive girls in order to "level the playing field"?

No, you said diversity, you ugly SOB!

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[0x00000dcc]

...and we wonder why Engineering students have a bad reputation and can't get laid...

And we wonder why arts students can't get a job and wonder how they're going to retire on 25k in life savings ...

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[sirket]

It never ceases to amaze me how people like you feel the need to be self important, but do it as an Anonymous Coward. If you have something to say, say it. Otherwise you better get back to your fingerpainting.

-sirket

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

Heh. Actually, I got married in college. So no, I didn't get much :-)

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Pitawg]

*SHE* learned that I am, in fact, an asshole. And proud of it.

So much for any sign of intellect out of you.. The term "asshole" means you have no feeling like the hole between your cheeks (both). "Pride" is a feeling.

It also means whatever comes out of you is crap. The only thing she did wrong was to waste her time on you and your "friends". (watch your back with those friends. er, no front, being the asshole you are.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[0x00000dcc]

However, I'm also terribly opposed to broad generalizations. Maybe you might want to make friends with an artist or two. Isn't it a bit presumptuous to assume he doesn't have any "artist friends"? Maybe he is an artist himself. I am an engineer and dabble in the arts.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[sirket]

In my experience, that is christian thing to do -- using your friends against you, leveraging peer pressure to get you to convert.

That is definitely Christianity in a nutshell. A bunch of self-righteous busybodies. You have a problem with someone, you confront them about it. Only a snake would slither away and try to alienate his friends.

The sad fucking thing is, she didn't ask his friends to talk to him into not patronizing the restaurant. She told his friends to leave him. If ditching a wayward sheep is the Christian thing to do, then I am fucking glad I am an atheist.

-siket

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[shotfeel]

LOL. I remember my father (head of maintenance) coming home one day and telling of the ordeal he had. Apparently he needed "sexual harassment and sensitivity" trainging because someone in purchasing was offended by what they found on some of his purchase orders.

Apparently he had the audacity to specify cables with "male" and "female" connectors, which is clearly inappropriate (in their mind).

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Bedouin X]

Note that none of the particapants in the conversation were actual racists.

But of course we don't know this. We only know that the conversation about integration was not a racist one.

I agree with you, I'm just being nitpicky.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Dave3.14159]

The Union for Linguistic Propriety (ULP) has written to the Americal Mathematical Society to demand changes in socially-offensive mathematical terminology. "The term 'least upper bound' is clearly derogatory," according to the ULP memorandum. "A perfectly satisfactory alternative, 'supremum,' carries the same mathematical meaning without the adverse connotations." Similarly, ULP insists that "infimum" be abolished, to be replaced by "greatest lower bound," a term that "reflects the struggle to overcome the adversity associated with membership in a stigmatized group or set." When asked whether ULP intends to abolish the use of the term "negative," an ULP representative said that "that issue is under active consideration."

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[filmsmith]

Considering his apparent discontent for the arts by referring to them as using 'Coloring books and crayons,' I felt it a safe assumtion that he had no respect for artists and, as such, no artistic friends. Though I would happily retract the statement if I'm wrong.

fs

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

It never ceases to amaze me how people like you feel the need to be self important, but do it as an Anonymous Coward. If you have something to say, say it. Otherwise you better get back to your fingerpainting.

LOL. I have a degree in computer science with a minor in astronomy. I got straight A's in all of my math classes. Fingerpainting, indeed.

I post AC because, frankly, I don't give a rat about the whole karma game, and I don't care how many people read my comments. It seems to me that would be pretty much the opposite of self-importance.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[17028]

Let me paraphrase; never attribute to a conspiracy what can adequately be explained by stupidity.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow. Perhaps you should try speaking with a few Christians before jumping to a conclusion.

There are jerk Christians just like there are jerk athiests and jerk (fill in the blank).

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[poot_rootbeer]

Way to condescend to a non-engineer, asshole.

Yes, she was stupid to butt indignantly into your calculus conversation, but the purple crayon and wooden sandal remarks were uncalled for.

But hey, since you're so into stereotypes, I guess it makes sense that you would uphold the stereotype of engineers being incapable of talking to girls.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[sk8king]

And me without Mod Points.

Public embarassment. I thought I saw on television years ago a judge in Texas that did just that. If you stole a chocolate bar from a store and were caught, he wouldn't sentence you to anything other than standing outside the store for 10 hours wearing a sandwich board declaring your crime. Same thing for people who didn't pay child support etc. Seemed like an interesting concept.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[sk8king]

I don't know Mr. BigBlockMopar, nor do I know the lady in the story. As for being a jerk, he said himself he prefers asshole.

But, as we all know, the story was exaggerated a bit. She [verbally] attacked him and he [over]reacted to her attack [according to the story]. Nobody is a sinner here and nobody is a saint....just regular people.

Can't we just all get along.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Mr. Slippery]

What did you major in puddinghead, modern (BLEACH!) art?

I was a double major in Comp. Sci. and physics for 3 years. (My brain started to melt and I only finished the Comp. Sci., then went on to an M.S. in the field.) I had friends who were majoring in EE, art, theatre, and many different subjects. None had it easy.

The person who had to toughest road, IMHO, was a music major. Not only the tremendous skill required, but the heavy load of theory, would have burned me out in no time.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[squarefish]

no, we don't ;)

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

"Are the PC police going to redefine diversity to include diversity of appearance, and force me to date unattractive girls in order to 'level the playing field'?"

If they want diversity at A&M they're going to have to start admitting attractive girls.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Atryn]

As part of an international student exchange organization, we put out an annual report that had a sentence stating that we were "a discriminating organization" and went on to say that we discriminated based on national origin...

The uproar was enormous, and I admit that I also said this was a poor choice of wording. The assertion was that we could help companies find high-quality student interns from specific countries they requested -- but the choice of words was terrible!

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[mpe]

Ironically the Texas A&M administration has decided to enforce such PC positions - we now have a diversity vp with a salary of $170k+ to ensure A&M is friendly to a small minority of minorities who prefer to blaim their failures on bigotry rather than accept personal responsibility and do something about it.

Whilst most likely ignoring a larger number of students who are actually suffering from bigotry but don't meet the strict qualifying criteria for the "small minority of minorities". Of course none of those who do qualify could possibly be bigots who can't handle a hostile reaction from everyone else, could them :). (The ideal situation for a bully being to get themselves considered a "victim"...)

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[mpe]

The problem is called "Political Correctness" (aka PC), which purports to be an answer to the problems of racism, but really is a way to practice thought control.

The concept of "Political Correctness" has existed as long as politics has. The only new(ish) bit is that claim that it's "anti-discrimination".

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Dagowolf]

Thank you FilmSmith. I was going to say much the same thing. I find it is the mentality displayed by the first post that makes so many people view engineers and scientists as unapproachable narcissistic jerks. I find my friends that are studying the liberal arts to be much more intellecually stimulating conversationalists than any engineer or scientist I've known.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[steveg]

Can't say much about engineer and scinetist *students*. I've been out of school for some time.

But it has been my experience that people employed in the scientific and engineering fields tend to have a lot more interest and knowlege of the liberal arts than liberal arts people have in science or engineering.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[hesiod]

> invited here for cup of coffee to have a "deep" conversation about integration and how multicultural I am.

If you really want to date a girl, (who isn't in CIS or Math) you don't invite her HERE. /. is the last way to impress a chick. Good idea, though, re: coffee and a *ahem* DEEP *mmm* conversation.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[cptgrudge]

I am an engineer and dabble in the arts.

I've always considered my skills with computers to be the Art. People tell me what I'm able to do is like magic.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[hesiod]

> her reaction simply means that she feels passionately about the issue. Hopefully you will agree that that isn't a bad thing.

No, That is a very bad thing. If she's so sensitive, she didn't seem to worry about the sensitivity of BigBlockMopar (although I'm sure he can handle an insult or two if necessary).

> What bugs me is the assumption that she is worthy of ridicule for not knowing calculus terms

It's not about Calculus. What is worthy of ridicule is her jumping into a conversation she has no part in, and assuming the context is of bad intent. That is pretty arrogant, unlike retaliating in kind, which was BBM's response. So he was perfectly justified for pointing out that she's a stupid bitch.

> it's perfectly okay for YOU not to know much about HER major.

Yes, it is. It's perfectly OK for her to not know anything about his major. If he would have misheard or misunderstood something in HER conversation and jumped on her about it, then yes, he'd be a major asshole (not that he isn't now; I can't say, since I've never met him - not my problem anyway). BUT he didn't.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[hesiod]

> modern (BLEACH!) art?

What is bleach art? Wouldn't everything just come out as a Polar Bear in a blizzard on a white canvas?

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[hesiod]

> doesn't even know what an integration means, she's the asshole

No, no... It means she's stupid, there's a big difference. If she was an asshole, she would still jump all over him, but she'd scream and scream, giving no chance for reply, make a bunch of shit up for the school admins, call the ACLU, all before talking to the person.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[cptgrudge]

If ditching a wayward sheep is the Christian thing to do...

Everything I have learned from being a Christian says that *that* is not right. Just as extreme Islamic fanatics give Islam a bad rap, so too do those Christian zealots leave people turned off to being a Christian. Being a Christian (in my mind) is not about Bible-thumping and converting others, it's a way of living your life.

Only a snake would slither away and try to alienate his friends.

How appropriate. In the Bible the snake represents Satan.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Dashing Leech]

Speak for yourself. I've never had a problem.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Awptimus Prime]

DOH! :-)

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[ddimas]

Cool. Sorry about the burnout.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[ddimas]

Actually not a bad example. I was trying to render the sound one makes when vomiting.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[0x00000dcc]

I've always considered my skills with computers to be the Art
Well now that's true too. I once attempted to explain to a middle age drunken hippie how the engineering process, although it requires rules that have to be followed, can be quite a creative process. He would said "no, that could never be the case." I then tried to explain to him how it is somewhat analogous to the "rules" of canvass painting - you must use a brush and a canvass and paints for it to be called art. Granted, there are those who will stretch these rules (like Pollack) and that too is art, but are there not rules for all of us to follow in any process?

His answer: "now you're just reaching."

I hope to God I never become that closed minded when I'm his age.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Mudd Chick]

>The only true pressure a lot of people feel is social

I really think that corporal punishment has gotten a bad rap. What is so evil about it? Now, I'm not advocating that we maim people, or beat the hell out of them for no reason, but the reason we have pain receptors is to warn us that we are doing something which will have a negative impact on our physical bodies. Corporal punishment, in essence, is an attempt to equate damage to society with damage to the self. While it might be difficult to design a system that would not be TOO cruel, I do not find this objective to be objectionable in itself.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[iminplaya]

"I was trying to render the sound one makes when vomiting."

That would be "BLECHH" - kinda

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

i'm an engineer and i'll steal your girlfriend in a minute. artsy fartsy dork.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Mr. Slippery]

Cool. Sorry about the burnout.

It was the semister I was taking both operating systems (where we wrote a simple multitaksing OS for x86 PCs) and introduction to theoretical EM that really got me.

I might have been able to do it if I'd gone for a five-year plan - but the scholarship money ran out after four. (I still ended up cramming five years of credits into four years.)

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[caitsith01]

"the coloring books their mid-terms are based on"

I'm suspect you, like many engineering/science/maths people, would probably fail a subject about renaissance art or English literature (the type that comes from England) or modern history. At the very least your dismissive and superior attitude would inhibit your ability to actually understand the very real subtleties and complexities of such subjects.

The attitude of people with technical degrees towards the humanities is staggering. The idea that universities are nothing but glorified technical colleges is pathetic. Personally I think some elements of an Arts/Social Sciences degree should be compulsory in every technical degree to help ensure that we don't end up like the Borg.

Incidentally I have degrees in both technical and non-technical fields, before the fl@ming starts.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[afidel]

You should really talk to the local parish wher I live then. They told my wife that she had to get her marriage in order so that she could be a good christian. This after it was their f'ing diocese that told us we couldn't be married in the church (something about not enough time being provided between pre-canna classes and the wedding date, what BS). Since the priest made that remark we have not been back to the church and we don't really plan to unless our son tells us he wishes to pursue that branch of religion.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

Pretty cruel treatment considering that a simple explanation from the start would have made the whole matter a non-issue. You're eagerness to bait her, and inflame the situation does not reflect well on you or your peers. In terms of ignorance it seems you both had more than your share. If people treated ignorance as a fact of life and dealt with it appropriately, the world would be a better place. Instead people jump on other's ignorance as a chance to inflate their egos and polish their arrogance.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

So, you're an asshole who's complaining about someone else's poor behavior? Interesting. Also very telling that your proud of it. You really think you're superior to this woman? I don't think so. People who go out of their way to make trouble are the lowest. I'de have to classify you as deficiently evolved.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[BigBlockMopar]

...and we wonder why Engineering students have a bad reputation and can't get laid...

Little secret: in the button-down super-preppy world of University, having a bad reputation gets you laid.

Different is good.

What did I do? Try driving around campus in a 1976 Dodge Ram pickup truck with Pinkard and Bowden's Guns Made America Great playing loudly on the stereo, having long hair and flannel shirts, participating and winning in drinking games while chain smoking unfiltered Camels.

Apparent cavalier disregard for academic success, but still showing up for all classes and doing excellent assignments and lab work: "Well, the way I figure it, I don't have a scholarship or a residence placement riding on my marks. All I need to do is pass all my courses. Anything more violates the law of diminishing returns and cuts into drinking time which I can spend with friends so that I don't burn out before the end of senior year." (Think about it: a good engineer is lazy. It wasn't an active guy who invented the TV remote control, the elevator or the dishwasher. One could even make an argument that it was the motivating factor behind the invention of the bridge.)

And doing this not because you feel a need to be a conformist with someone elses' ideals, but because you simply enjoy these things.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[BigBlockMopar]

Personally I think some elements of an Arts/Social Sciences degree should be compulsory in every technical degree to help ensure that we don't end up like the Borg.

It is! It sure helped my GPA, the full credit arts elective I took. The most stressful part of the class was when the instructor asked us to dig out our purple crayons. (I'm not kidding.) The payoff was that attendance was taken every class, and 15% of your mark was based on attendance. It was a dead easy course.

I'm suspect you, like many engineering/science/maths people, would probably fail a subject about renaissance art or English literature (the type that comes from England) or modern history. At the very least your dismissive and superior attitude would inhibit your ability to actually understand the very real subtleties and complexities of such subjects.

Since the supply of Art History majors clearly exceeds the market demand for Art History majors, I have tremendous resentment for the fact that there's government funding to those (as all) university degrees whilst money could be spent on public support for degrees which actually have a use to the economy.

The glut of people with BAs but no particular need for them (ie. not employed in academia) pushes up recruiting requirements artificially. ("Candidate A has an unrelated and effectively useless degree while Candidate B has ten years of real-world experience in the field. But Candidate A has a degree, so we'll offer the position of sales associate here at The Gap.")

If you want to do it on your own time and money, fine. But I would also caution those who are considering an arts degree right out of high school to consider the marginal increase in earning power most of them enjoy, versus the compounded effects of interest earned on savings so early in their working career. It simply is not an intelligent fiscal plan.

(Never mind that when I'm looking for a secretary or something, the resumes with the arts degrees go into the shredder faster than the Word attachments get deleted. Spending 4 years and $40,000+ to get a degree to apply for a job as a secretary is a clear sign to me that the applicant is not sufficiently intelligent to be trusted with a box of paperclips let alone the big-assed scary Mita collating copier.)

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[BigBlockMopar]

*YOU* assumed (based solely on her sandals?) that she was an art major.

ArtS major. One of the BA programs. If she were in science, engineering, commerce, economics or architecture, she would have required a high school calculus credit as a prerequisite for admission.

Note that all of those majors have something else in common besides calculus: career prospects which by and large don't include an entry-level job as a "management trainee" at The Gap.

Ergo, logic suggests that calculus is the difference between a degree and birdcage liner.

*YOU* assumed (based solely on her angst?) that she had had a "comfortable middle-class childhood."

Sure! She was at least comfortable financially. I wouldn't remember her if I ran into her on the street or met her in a bar, but my memory is that she was well-dressed (in an name-brand with money but no taste sort of way).

I do remember the wooden sandals for sure. And nailpolish on the toe nails.

*YOU* assumed (based solely on her ignorance of calculus?) that she was an idiot.

No. She butted into a conversation without knowing what it was about, accused me loudly and without merit based on what she's been programmed to do by who knows how many "Campus Racism Awareness" focus groups and "workshops" (how the *hell* can they get away with calling it a "workshop" if there are no power tools?).

Furthermore, based on her apparent lack of a prerequisite high school calculus credit, she had chosen to invest in a degree which was not likely to further her career. What better barometer of idiocy is there than wasting $40,000+ over 4 years to get a degree which might land a top-flight job in either the housekeeping or food service industries? (Thanks, Peter!)

If you had gone through life only having encountered one use of the term "integration," you might have made the same assumption. That's not to say that she didn't overreact, but her reaction simply means that she feels passionately about the issue. Hopefully you will agree that that isn't a bad thing.

Again, see the same point about the lack of a high school calculus credit pointing to the fact that she was probably throwing away four years and $40k. That's mistake number one. Mistake number two was assuming that she knew what a bunch of strangers were talking about. Mistake number three (not covered in your post, and relevant in the climate involved) was wearing sandals in October.

What bugs me is the assumption that she is worthy of ridicule for not knowing calculus terms, whereas it's perfectly okay for YOU not to know much about HER major. She might be ignorant, but you are both ignorant AND arrogant.

The worldwide supply of English Literature and Medieval History majors clearly exceeds the demand. I know enough about both subjects to get by (including how to brew mead!), whilst I doubt she would even know the basics of more relevant (and arguably more important) subjects which form the basis for amenities she enjoys in today's world - Ohm's Law, cellular mitosis, the speedometer in your car takes the derivative of your odometer with respect to time, the joys of calculating that she'd be a millionaire at retirement if she'd put that $40k for her education into savings, how many pounds of force are needed to get those silly 6" long lugnut wrenches that come with new Toyotas to replace a flat tire by the side of the road...

But that's okay. I'm sure you're right. It's more important that I know Shakespeare's sonnets or the major features of Renaissance portraits. Damn it, instead of pursuing a science/engineering/economics/math/useful degree or spending those youthful four years working and banking the money in anticipation of the effects of compounded interest, I should have been spending the money and time to get a B.A. in Film Studies.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[BigBlockMopar]

You dumbass, you missed a great chance to score. A smart sexy beast like me would have taken here to the side, told here she heard the part about integrating out of context, invited here for cup of coffee to have a "deep" conversation about integration and how multicultural I am. If all things go well, a kiss + a huge + a little butt squeeze would be granted without prejudice.

The only way to have tolerated her would have been to duct tape her mouth shut, and I'm pretty sure that she would have objected. Besides, it would have lessened the promise of the evening.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[SmashPDX]

Geez if there was ever a reason for Slashdot to allow modding up more than +5, this post is IT!!!

Signed, fellow math geek (and yes I've run into this same kind of thing-- lol)

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[instarx]

Lots of easy karma points from dittohead Slashdot moderators

WELL SAID! I've noticed this too, but couldn't express it nearly as well.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

well, how can I say that without being offending to you? I don't know, so here it is: you are a moron, and your mods points just show that there is a lot of morons, socially speaking, here on ./ . Normal.
Sorry, and have a nice day.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[instarx]

I thank you too, filmsmith. I am both an engineer and an artist. Probably the most telling thing I can think of about my feelings for both careers is that I will tell people I am a technical person at the drop of a hat while I always hesitate to tell them I am an artist. This is NOT because I am ashamed of the artist but because I always feel as though I am bragging when I say "I'm an artist." No one ever gets accused of bragging when they announce they're in a technical field no matter how well they can factor terms.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Anonymous Coward]

hum yeah, if you are a "scientific" , take a look at the others opinions about this guy and wonder yourself if there isn't a remote chance that you are soooo wrong.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Hognoxious]

People who go out of their way to make trouble are the lowest.

I totally agree.

You are talking about the crusty-gusseted bint who butted into someone else's conversation, without understanding it and without invitation, right?

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[filmsmith]

That's true. There is a certain pompus attitude that comes with saying "I'm an Artist" though, as another person put it, there are fields of Engineering in which the finished job IS a work of art, and I can greatly respect that. It's one thing to simply create what someone asks for. It is another thing entirely to do it with pashion and love that leaves anyone who understands the process in awe of the creation! ...damn, that is an awfully generalized sentence.

fs

p.s. I don't know that 'no one ever gets accused of bragging.' As I recall, this thread was started because BlockHeadMomo thought he was Gods Gift to Engineering.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[sirket]

Wow. Perhaps you should try speaking with a few Christians before jumping to a conclusion.

As a confirmed Catholic, I have met more than a few Christians. My entire family is either Protestant or Catholic.

I think it is fair to say I have enough experience with Christianity to be nauseated by it.

-sirket

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[gfim]

You only look for females to date! That's discrimination!

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[thynk]

Which brings us back to the idiotic LA story about master/slave IDE drive designations being objectionable and now illegal in LA county.

Oh yeah, that's what this story was about - that was one of the longest tangent threads I've seen here in a while.

Personally, I've always been offended by the "Motherboard/Daughterboard" terms, as the daughterboard is either inserted into the motherboard or is mounted upon it in some way or another.

(ok, actually, I only claim that it offends me to hide that it secretly turns me on).

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...

[Urox]

I'm suspect you, like many engineering/science/maths people, would probably fail a subject about renaissance art or English literature (the type that comes from England) or modern history. At the very least your dismissive and superior attitude would inhibit your ability to actually understand the very real subtleties and complexities of such subjects.

Pot calling kettle: you're black.

Personally, I've seen quite a bit tech geeks also being history/lit geeks (music geeks make EXCELLENT programmers ;) ) and few Arts degrees with tech background. Most of my college friends came from academic teams where the most well rounded were the ones who scored the highest ( Academic Decathlon , Knowledge Bowl, etc.). I should qualify that about 80% of my friends are currently employed in the computer industry

AND in fact, there usually are some Arts/Social Sciences courses REQUIRED in American universities, just as there is usually Calculus required in Arts curicula.

And since background qualifications are important to you, I was ranked 3rd highest individual score in the state the year I was in Academic Decathlon. That means I had to excel at a variety of subjects including Economics, History, Art, Music, Literature, Math, Science, and an interview. In my university I took two years of literature courses, one year of economics, three of psychology, 2 years of dance, 6 years of music... and still came away with a BS in Math and BS in Chemistry and qualifications for med school admissions.

Yes Master!

[UGG]

Dracula/Igor gets my vote.

Mother/Seymore would delight the Simpsons fans, and you could still use the M/S abbreviation.

But I think Politician/Taxpayer is the only alternative most people would understand. Even the most technically-challenged (ie. senators and computer salesmen) would get it!

Good!

[Frobozz0]

It's an obscenely offensive term. I wondered why it hadn't been removed a long time ago.

uhh..

[Anonymous Coward]

anyone ever heard of a master & slave cylinder in a car's clutch?

freaking thought police are gonna come and arrest us all. what a joke

Pathetic.

[throughthewire]

I'd love to hear the explanation of just whom, exactly, that terminology is supposed to offend, and why.

"The County of Los Angeles actively promotes and is committed to ensure a work environment that is free from any discriminatory influence be it actual or perceived."

It's a license for idiocy. There doesn't have to actually be any "discriminatory influence;" all that is required is for at least one person to imagine that there is.

"We would request that each manufacturer, supplier and contractor review, identify and remove/change any identification or labeling of equipment or components thereof that could be interpreted as discriminatory or offensive in nature..."

And there just isn't any end to what *could* be interpreted as discriminatory of offensive, if you're sufficiently creative in your stupidity.

I'd be tempted to complain that labelling electrical and telecommunications plugs and jacks as "male" and "female" is offensive, and insist on the removal of all such plugs. Oh, and while they're at it, they need to change the name of the county, since "Los Angeles" might be offensive to atheists and non-Hispanics.

I feel very sorry for the county workers (not to mention the citizens!) who have to suffer under "leadership" like this.

Re:Pathetic.

[Anonymous Coward]

We can't call them "drives" anymore, either, because obviously this is insensitive to all of the people in California who can't drive. And can also be a racial slur toward all of the illegal aliens that don't yet have drivers' licenses. :p

Again, government provides us with comedy...

[mstrohbehn]

This reminds me of an old "Murphy Brown" episode, where the main characters were having a town hall meeting on 'sensitivity'. She referred to someone as the 'tall woman with glasses', and the woman retorted that she preferred 'vertically enhanced' and 'visually challenged'. Perhaps the folks who came up with this stuff prefer to be referred to as 'reality challenged'...

Barf.

[atheken]

This is unbelievable... when did it get to be that the words we use are no longer allowed to have meaning. I would use Primary, Secondary for each drive. But since those are used for the IDE channels, I guess I will now have to say Primary Primary, Primary Secondary, Secondary Primary, Secondary Secondary.... God forbid a PCI IDE card.. Tertiary Primary, Tertiary Secondary, Quartiary Primary Quartiary Secondary...

Problem Solved?

I live in Ohio, sorry but this is total crap. PC is just a rediculously overloaded acronym, and the one meaning I dislike the most is "Political Correctness."

Please, instead of wasting your time with "Master/Slave" (a HISTORICALLY ACCURATE terminology Slaves DID have Masters, that's what made them slaves....sheesh) How about you idiots in L.A. Government figure out what you're going to do about energy conservation and stop wasting so much of it on such a worthless topic.

Whoever started this crap, I will send you a link to definitions of the words, they weren't targetting you when the terms were selected, and furthermore, you probably weren't even alive when the terms were framed in the standard. ....But maybe your parents were targetted by this _obviously_ inflamatory choice of words.

Forget terminology- Ban the slavery!

[Phat_Tony]

I agree with the other posters here- who cares about this PC BS about terminology.

What I want to see banned is the use of the IDE chain's terribly discriminatory master/slave relationship between drives!

This travesty has gone on long enough! One drive gets control of the IDE chain, and the other one's just supposed to put up with being secondary all the time, constantly submitting to the control of some dominant, "Master" drive?

There's not even any objective basis for determining who's to be the "Master" and who's to be in the inferior "Slave" roll. It's not necessarily the newer, larger, faster, or more reliable drive that is "Master." There is no objective basis whatsoever that is standardly applied- this subjugation is forced upon the poor "slaves" arbitrarily, through no fault of their own. Who can walk around this great world of hours and hold their head high with this travesty in our midst! How can anyone allowing a drive to work for them all day under these slave-like conditions, in a hot, cramped, stuffy computer case, no less, and call themselves a moral being.

I'd like to see all nations sign international resolutions mandating changing to more egalatarian, SCSI-based systems that don't force this sort of subserviance on any computer part. I'm sure my fellow geeks will stand strong with me in a new solidarity movement to ban this abonimable practice! Be strong, and we shall prevail!

Thank you,

Phat Tony.

Or Maybe

[Hecatonchires]

Top/Bottom (cable select can be a 'switch')

boot.ini

[loraksus]

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WIN2000
Welco me to hell ;)

Re:boot.ini

[Anonymous Coward]

/dev/ide/host0/bus0/target1/lun0/disc

Taking action

[rice_burners_suck]

This is clearly ridiculous. The county of Los Angeles expects an entire industry to change accepted and known terminology because 1 person ( ONE! ) thought something was offensive.

I think several things need to happen here:

First, I encourage anyone and everyone to write to all the hard disk manufacturers you can think of, and strongly discourage them from changing this naming convention. Politely explain that the entire world should not change because of one person's lack of familiarity with the master/slave relationship of hard drives. (This terminology is actually used in other fields besides hard drives, to denote any mechanism or device in which this relationship of control is found.)

Second, if you've gone as far as doing that, you should consider writing to the county of Los Angeles to let them know how ridiculous and silly their request is.

I do not usually interfere in things like this, or ask anybody to do so, but I strongly believe that this is a frightening trend that is growing in too many areas. For example, a book called "The Language Police: How Pressure Groups Restrict What Students Learn" by Diane Ravitch gives example after example of things that school textbooks cannot say because they are politically incorrect. If you read this book, you'll eventually ask yourself, "Well, what exactly can you talk about?" That's the problem. If the entire world needs to change each time one person (or a small group of people) is offended by some terminology, then we will eventually live in George Orwell's nightmare.

As other Slashcrackers have noted, soon you won't be able to call a connector male or female, because somebody with an as-yet unknown gender (like an alleged child molester named MICHAEL JACKSON, though it's unlikely you've heard of him) will be offended at that.

Re:Taking action

[oshy]

If companies dont change then there will be no more stupid items like this being spread arround as the ones doing so wont have any usable hard disks or cable connectors.

If you want some non-PC terms, try looking at the offshore oil drilling industry.

eg: Rat hole, Dog house and Cow c*nt.

That goes for software too, right?

[Anonymous Coward]

I quote from the letter sent by LA County (emphasis mine):

As such, it is the County's expectation that our manufacturers, suppliers and contractors make a concentrated effort to ensure that any equipment, supplies or services that are provided to County departments do not possess or portray an image that may be construed as offensive or defamatory in nature.

I suppose LA County considers text displayed in software output, documentation or source code subject to the same standard? Even if the term "services" doesn't specifically refer to software, this is probably their opinion anyway. Neither do I see any exceptions for suppliers of either "free" or "open source" software. Master/slave domain name servers, anyone?

As an interrim solution, pending the removal of any offensive language from your code, I suggest adding a clause to the software license agreement exempting LA County administration from using it. If they don't want to do business with you, it's their choice.

Then, when they still end up using your software after having failed to read the license, and contact you to complain about your references to master/slave relationships, make sure to remind them about the DMCA and unlicensed software.

Cock pit

[WhatsAProGingrass]

As far as i know, you are not allowed to say cock pit in the military anymore, its now called a flight deck or something.What ever happened to sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me? and what if aliens come down and we make them into slaves. could we not use that word anymore for anything?

1st Amendment

[Anonymous Coward]

This must be a fake.... these idiots must have never head the 1st Amendment.....

my brown friend

[WhatsAProGingrass]

Oh yeah, I was taking out the trash at work the other day and my brown friend said, "Have you ever wondered why the trash dumpsters are alwasy brown, and the recycle dumpsters are white?" Maybe their is a deeper meaning?

Re:my brown friend

[Simple-Simmian]

Well they are green and blue here and every other place I have been.

Re:my brown friend

[IVI4573R]

Here- Recycle: Green Trash: Whatever the hell color you want.

Politically Correct Bible Story

[CHaN_316]

Since we're using scriptures, here's a great resource for uptight people who are offended by anything. Why not celebrate Christmas.... er, non-denominational holiday period with the Politically Correct version of the Birth of Christ.

Here's an excerpt to wet your appetite:

Sure enough, the three wise men rode up.

The crowd gasped, "They're all male!" And "Not very multicultural!"

"Balthasar here is black," said one of the Magi.

"Yes, but how many of you are gay or disabled?" someone shouted. A committee was quickly formed to find an impoverished lesbian wise-person among the halt and lame of Bethlehem.

Re:Politically Correct Bible Story

[Bigbutt]

"whet"

Alternatives

[yet another coward]

object/subject
superior/inferior
high/low
top/b ottom
above/below
principal/?
dominant/submissi ve
leader/follower
chief/?
head/foot
head/tail
commander/?
?/dependent
main/accessory
?/sate llite

Harddrives have become...

[Kashif Shaikh]

Self-Aware. And now are running the gov't!

Alternatives?

[ConceptJunkie]

"Master/slave" is now verboten. (George Orwell was a prophet.)

How about "pimp/ho" or "Clinton/intern"?

Really, we have become a society so thin-skinned that people get bent all out of shape over completely meaningless things.

I hate to say it, but a lot of people need a taste of real adversity so they can get a sense of perspective. There's so much real bad stuff going on in the world, you don't need to pretend.

You have to wonder what a person who feels "offended" would do in a society where if you say the wrong thing you get your tongue cut out. You have to wonder when "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" became "entitlement, reparations and punative action against people who disagree with you"?

When did "Free Speech" become "Free Hearing of Only Things I Want to Hear"?

If I had a dollar for every time I am offended by immorality, hatred, or sheer stupidity, I'd treat everyone on /. to a free order from Thinkgeek, but I understand that's how the world works and I expect it. I don't whine.

What this country needs is a few more adults.

NIggardly is a perfectly cromulent word

[GQuon]

niggardly: petty, cheap, etc.

It's a word from the 14th century, but it sounds a little like "nigger", which is a word used to insult african looking people.

Re:NIggardly is a perfectly cromulent word

[Anonymous Coward]

FYI, see this post: Irony

Well....

[Anonymous Coward]

Now you know what bureaucrats spend most of their time doing.

Conservative Slashdot?

[arashiakari]

First the instinctive revulsion when the internet tax ban did not sunset, and now illustration of the absurdity that is political correctness...

Is Slashdot becoming politically conservative?

I love the ad that was running on Slashdot for a while that said, "INTERNET TAX? / ARE YOU NUTS?" It made me want to pose the question to everyone, "If taxes are bad for the internet, if they would stifle commerce, invade your privacy, and overall act as a wet blanket on internet culture ... what makes you think it is any different from EVERY OTHER AREA OF LIFE?"

Mod me down or ignore me, but I do pine for a conservative groundswell (a celebration of reason) in the Slashdot community.

Re:Conservative Slashdot?

[Anonymous Coward]

I do pine for a conservative groundswell (a celebration of reason)

Sorry, you can have one or the other, but not both at the same time. It is completetly impossible by defenition.

Re:Conservative Slashdot?

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL!

Consider yourself modded up.

Your forget one:

[Kashif Shaikh]

"finger" -- try using that in a sentence amongst a group of people, "Ummm, hey John did you try to finger him?".

Re:Your forget one:

[sirsex]

I don't know if this is a standard command, but we have one for batch bobs on the compute farm: bjobs

Re:Your forget one:

[Anonymous Coward]

That's easy -- just replace 'finger' with 'probe'. Oh no, wait...

Re:Your forget one:

[Zonekeeper]

Worse. Replace him with her.

I'm the master of my domain

[digitalgimpus]

Will that episode of Seinfeld fall into this censorship as well?

The Summer of George!

You got something against crackers?

[Angram]

"Right. I suppose we should all smile and nod when our co-workers or bosses catch on and start calling us [...] crackers"

Hey, I'm a white guy named Graham. If I got offended when people called me "cracker," I wouldn't have many friends. Everyone thinks they're hysterical when they come up with it (typically about 2 seconds after I tell them my name). African-American males (this is the PC thread) can't get enough of it. Some just yell out "Yo, Cracker!" whenever they see me, just because they can. But I just laugh all the same, and do you know why? Because I like puns.

I was far more offended being called "American" back when I was in the UK. At least that had an intended negative connotation.

Hoist them with their own petard

[Emperor BMA]

Every company that recieved that email should do absolutely nothing and keep the "Master" and "Slave" terms to spite them. Then when they cannot buy computers because all vendors still use the terms, it will be their own fault...

what about freedom of speech?

[dfj225]

Surely, for an innocent term such as this, freedom of speech must apply. I think if I was a business in LA I would violate this law as often as possible, maybe by even hanging a banner from my office talking about master/slave hard drives. Stuff like this really pisses me off. I think America needs to give this political correctness stuff a break.

Who your daddy?/I AM!

[Kashif Shaikh]

nuff said: slave=who's you daddy
master=i am

Hobbits?

[GQuon]

LA Shire might not sound as good as LA County, but we're trying to be policially correct here.
But wouldn't that lead to the vertically challenged being called "Hobbits" by the cildren?

How is it offensive?

[Ignatius_VI]

How can the use of master/slave possibly be offensive to anyone when talking about hard drives? It has nothing to do with people. Even talking about master/slave as it is can't be offensive... They're just words, it's just history.

I'd say we've had our share of crap from the human potential movement. When is all this garbage going to go away?

Re:How is it offensive?

[vidarh]

They can just present the bill for changing master/slave into something else as a separate line item on the invoice and leak a copy to the newspapers. I'd love seeing them huge cost increases for IT spending to avoid industry standard terms.

ran into this at work recently

[Kraken137]

in our case, a member of the team was giving a presentation explaining how our LDAP servers were set up to allow for load balancing and failover. the presentation referred to the master and slave LDAP servers. a member of the audience told him that was offensive to her, and demanded that they cease using those terms.

god people piss me off.

Re:ran into this at work recently

[Anonymous Coward]

Obviously that little cunt needs to be beaten.

Re:ran into this at work recently

[Anonymous Coward]

god people piss me off.

You need to say, "I hate people. People make me pro-nuclear."

Re:ran into this at work recently

[oshy]

So much care and understanding in the world.

(Glad I dont carry a bat arround when I visit customers tho)

Sounds like they were too busy looking for a reason to be insulted to actually listen to explanations.

Re:ran into this at work recently

[Patrik_AKA_RedX]

Terrible what lack of sex does to a person...

Re:ran into this at work recently

[Ixitar]

My suggestion would be to carry along a dictionary of terms. When one of these twits speaks up, throw the book at the person.

Re:ran into this at work recently

[Anonymous Coward]

'god people piss me off.'

dO0d, watch the 'G' word, lest ye face crucifiction.

LA?

[GQuon]

"LA" is a FEMALE pronoun. Ban it too, it's sexist.

brilliant, my friend

[fliptout]

I'll try that next time i need to write technical documentation... Fortunately everyone who reads what i write speaks engrish. :D

I know...

[Anonymous Coward]

Lets genetically engineer all humans and animals so their shit isn't black...

Will that fuckin please them?

Sorry

[chunkwhite86]

Sorry, I didn't get the message. I was busy installing a hard drive but I had to set the MASTER and SLAVE jumpers, which took some time because they are so small. This upgrade occured in the SLAVE nodes of the cluster we are using. The MASTER node had been previously upgraded (both it's MASTER and SLAVE ata disk drives).

So what were you saying about new terminology rules?

At least manholes will not be renamed

[dbIII]

They always lead somewhere shitty.

Re:Forget terminology- Ban the slavery!

[interstellar_donkey]

I heard your cry, and being a man of action, did something about it. Opening up my computer case, I switched the jumper cables. Now the master is the slave, and vice versa.

Whoa-ho! The tables have turned!

Viva La Revolution!

No, I think he's onto something!

[Anonymous Coward]

"One Roger Simon thinks it's a great idea: "I believe that if all parts of the body were treated equally, and there was not so much emphasis on genitalia, than people could move beyond gender differences and grow mentally and socially."

Many men might find themselves growing if there were a woman at the next urinal. Especially because, well... have you ever seen the kind of pose a woman needs to strike to be able to use a urinal?

master/slave/niggardly

[ronaldyang]

I wonder how many of the people who are so indignant about the idea that anyone could consider "master/slave" offensive are black? Although folks who post to slashdot know what "niggardly" means, that doesn't mean it's not offensive to people. For example, what do you think "noisome" means? When you use "whom" in conversation it doesn't always sound natural, and when you say "niggardly" in Washington DC you sound racist. The real loss in this situation is that there is a network of white nerds all over the world sniggering about this issue posting to message boards and looking up words like "noisome" and "niggardly" on the internet when they should be out saving the world with their irony and sarcasm and enjoyment of ethnicky jazz.

Re:master/slave/niggardly

[Anonymous Coward]

Except that I don't believe in being dumb just to keep stupid people from being offended. I'm an American; I will say what the hell I please and not lower myself to the level of such stupid people. If it offends, that's too bad.

Re:master/slave/niggardly

[Inthewire]

Excellent "HIC" moment!
The slums got so much soul.

Bravo

[m000]

Excellent.

Misleading Slashdot headline!

[bonch]

If you read the article, nothing was "banned" at all.

Someone complained to the board, and they are required to issue a statement. They sent a generic letter out to companies who had registered with the county.

I hightly doubt many if any will comply.

What about scsi !!

[panxerox]

I take personal offense at anyone using the term "scsi" it sounds to much like scuzzie and um well I havent taken a shower in awile and um...

Too much pr0n ....

[ProfMoriarty]

When they were discussing master/slave relationships ... I wasn't thinking a white/black thing ...

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[Locmar]

Read his(their) post again- he mentioned that English speakers have been using "they" to refer to single subjects ambiguously for seven centuries. When pretty much everyone makes the same "mistake," in the same way, for 700 years, that pretty much makes it not a mistake.

Slashdot hypocrisy

[bonch]

I love the hypocrisy of all the Slashdotters crying foul over some moron trying to change the way people talk in this instance.

Yet yesterday on Slashdot, another "hacker" versus "cracker" article was posted, and everyone very carefully detailed the artificially created differences between the two. After all, they didn't want to be "labelled."

Huh?

Re:Slashdot hypocrisy

[DunbarTheInept]

Let's follow the progression of the term:
1. "Hacker" is used by computer geeks to denote a particular style of programming for which there just wasn't a good word already in the language.
2. The style of programming used by people finding holes in computer systems is to be one of the many uses of this "hacker" style.
3. The media hear geeks saying "hacker" in reference to people breaking into computer systems and misunderstand what the geeks are talking about - thinking they are talking about the breaking in, when they are actually talking about the style of programming being used to do so.
4. The media's definition gets more usage because they get more airplay than the geeks' meaning.

IN this case, the "some moron trying to change the way people talk" is the media, not the geeks. They succeeded. So, NO, it's not hypocracy to defend the difference between hacker and cracker while at the same time being agaisnt politically correct bullshit. BOTH are instances of the exact same thing - being against the media redefining terms.

disk drive nomenclature is just the most recent

[bbc22405]

I have read most of the top-rated posts, and none of them have bothered to mention that in your car, there typically is a master brake cylinder behind the pedal, and a slave cylinder at each wheel. (I'm unsure if this nomenclature holds for power and power-assist brakes.) And for cars with manual transmission, there can be a similar arrangement for the clutch. Maybe this naming is for other uses of hydraulics?

So, all the stores selling auto parts, repairing autos, selling repair manuals, etc., should change their inventory software, parts catalogs, repair catalogs, ...?

Riiiigght.

Switch them over to SATA

[RazorBlade99]

Now they can all switch to Serial-ATA and problem solved =)

Proposed Replacement

[stephens_domain]

Substitute the terminology from your working environment (supervisor/employee, etc.).

Been thinking about this recently...

[Comatose51]

I was working on my senior project recently. I had a pair of components who's interaction is best described as master/slave. When I thought about good names for the two modules, I was afraid of using "master" and "slave" because I had signed up to present the project in front of my residential college. Although I knew it was benign I didn't expect my peers to understand when I presented it. So, instead I choose supervisor/subordinate, which was longer than I would I have liked. But I guess times have changed...

Re:Been thinking about this recently...

[Anonymous Coward]

Just go with the new age terms President / Intern.

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[gilroy]

Blockquoth the poster:

'They' must refer to more than one person, or you're wrong.

True in formal writing or speech... for now. Check back in a century and I'd bet you'll see the singular "they" accepted. It's easier than formulating a new, concise, elegant approach to "he/she". And rant all you want, but the world is never going back to the default "he".

Nor, IMHO, should it. Language evolves and no language does it better than English. The language expresses the needs of the culture -- if the culture as a whole (or even in large part) decides the old way is inadequate, the language will change accordingly.

Or, to put it succintly, the only languages spoken "perfectly" are dead ones.

Re:Nazi drive Jew drive

[Anonymous Coward]

(nice nonsense..... Your not that bright though....Italians are to Spics.... I say you got about a 300 on your English SAT?)

What you wish is that I did not make a valid point. I think that people making it a non issue are actually missing the big picture that perhaps it is completely possible that the poeple who made these names up 20 years ago were making a racist comment and it has fallen through up until now. What if....it is very well feasible that this actually happened.

How many times in your life have you make a poor remark and realized then or later that the statment was sexist or racist.....you didn't mean it but it was.....

The names master and slave is really poor. That is my opinion....suck it up.

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[LPetrazickis]

This is a commonly mistake; 'they' is always plural.

On the other hand, modifying a noun with an adverb is not a common mistake.;)

'They' must refer to more than one person, or you're wrong.

Who died and put you in charge of our language?^-^

English ditched "thou" in favour of a singular "you" without any issues. Interestingly enough, one advantage of the singular "they" is that we might eventually be able to phase out the bloody useless third-person-singular verb forms onto the same rubbish heap that we piled the second-person-singular verb forms on.:)

Master/Slave on LDAP - now "Supplier/Consumer"

[WildBill1941]

I do customer support on LDAP servers for (part of) my job. For a long time now we've been referring to the master/slave relationship between LDAP servers that are setup in a replication environment as "Supplier/Consumer". This is one substitution that makes sense, as it accurately describes what each server does. However, our product can also do "Multi-Master Replication", where you have two servers that can accept writes from clients, but then replicate those changes to each other. No one's bothered to figure out a term for THAT configuration yet.

Now if I were a supplier to LA County....

[teddlesruss]

... I would already be saying something along the lines of "Sorry, no can deal with idiots" and leaving them to find a source of politically correct hard drives ...

Hang on a moment - "hard" and "floppy" could be taken to be sexually pejorative or connotative, so maybe they also want machines that only have CD ROM drives. Provided they can get over the fact that these devices run on a "bus," which might confuse users of our transportation services, so perhaps we'd better have machines without busses either.

And the term "memory" could be offensive to people with Alzheimer's (and offensive to people with Alzheimer's) so maybe just leave that out too okay?

Ummm what else is there in this Pandora's box of a PC? A "colour" monitor? Ooops... Oh this is all so difficult, let me just have a pad of paper and some crayons instead!

Sorry folks, but this is just a troll isn't it? Isn't it?

Please tell me this is a troll!

Abort/Retry/Fail

[smchris]

I'm pretty sure during the days of DOS, there was a "prolife" dude who was teaching people to hack DOS so it would say something like "Halt/Retry/Fail".

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[bluGill]

Act of parliment (1890? about then) made it illegal to use "they" for singular. When the gender is not known you should always give the benifit of the doupt and assume male. Not exactly those words, but you get the spirit, and can look it up if you can stomic more of it.

better get rid...

[Anonymous Coward]

We better get rid of the Mother/Daughter relationship too. I for one am OFFENDED that I am not represented in this relationship. I refuse to change my sex just so I can be represented when manufacturers produce motherboards and daughtercards.

Re:webmaster - web weaver

[JBird]

We have already experienced this. At my University, the web master is known as the web manager!

Re:Using libraries is cheating :)

[ChaoticLimbs]

I think you mean Daemon. the 'A' comes first.

When my wife orders food and it comes out to $6.66 or $16.66 or $26.66 she'll order something else to change the total.

True story.

Public Service Announcement

[Excen]

Please Disregard the Previous MisModded Flamebait Post. Had this been a real emergency, the latest version of Lovegate would have been loaded on your machine, or, if you are a *nix user, your root would have been deleted. Thank you, have a nice day.

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[thisissilly]

'They' must refer to more than one person, or you're wrong.

Singular 'they' is perfectly acceptable English, in use since at least the 14th century A.D.

It was only in the 19th century that some grammarians attempted to rid us of that usage, based on the fact that it didn't match up with Latin.

http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/linghebr/austheir.html

http://www.vocabula.com/2003/VRSept03Altieri.htm

Related SW quote

[Anonymous Coward]

"Only two there are. No more, no less. An master and an apprentice."

Does that mean we'll be seeing a redubbed Phantom Menace in the near future?

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[dspeyer]

Now what I wonder about is how will we conjugate it?

At present, most people conjugate verbs following a singular "they" with the plural forms, for greater euphony. I would much rather it go the other way -- singular conjugations could de-ambigouize the singular they. After all, very few English verbs have the same singular and plural forms in the third person (well, not in the present, anyway)

It would also be logically consistant. Then it would really be a matter of a single word taking on a new meaning, a common phenomenon which all linguists accept, and not a matter of adding further convolutions to English grammer. Does anyone really want their grandchildren to have to memorize another exception?

Why not send them an email and ask them.

[bigdadro]

I used their easy to use internet form to send them my message. So can you!

http://isd.co.la.ca.us/scripts/isdmail.htm

From a junior citizen

[freeweed]

I've always thought, if oldsters don't like being labelled as such, because it's discriminatory, then we can make them happy.

We'll treat them exactly the same as everyone else in society. No government paid money just for being old, no discounts at movies or restaurants, no subsidized housing, nothing.

Suddenly they don't seem to mind being called "old" :)

Before everyone starts saying...

[spiritraveller]

how absurd all this political correctness is, think of how it must feel to all the surviving former slaves who must be reminded of their previous condition of servitude everytime they reinstall a hard drive.

Re:Before everyone starts saying...

[TCaM]

They should take it up with the surviving former slave masters.

Re:Before everyone starts saying...

[Anonymous Coward]

I've found an easy solution. s/master/white/ s/slave/black/. As a bonus, manufacturers can replace the MA and SL labels with colour codes.

Re:Before everyone starts saying...

[blueforce]

Slavery was abolished effective:

1863 U.S.
1839 British Empire
1804 Haiti
1886 Cuba ... the list goes on.

Since it's LA county we'll assume you're talking about black Americans - just how old do you think "...all the surviving former slaves..." are? Even if they were only conceived in 1863, they would be at least 140 years old today.

Re:Before everyone starts saying...

[Zarf]

We have a 180 year old computer engineer here. She's been working with the new hard drives and recently commented on how derogitory the terms were. Interestingly she pointed out that Hard Drives back in the 1850's used to have kick wheels and were simmilar to giant potter's wheels. She would write on the drive using large magnets ... the 1 in the right hand and the 0 in the left... to read data she'd hold a compass to the platter as she kicked the kickwheel and call out "ONE! ZERO! ONE! ONE!" to the "Bus Master" she said it was really bad to be a "Slave" back then but couldn't imagine the conditions that those poor bastards live under inside those drives. At least they get to vote.

BTW: we keep her around just to read the old drives we have in storage from back then. She wants to learn how to use "this vi" thing since she says "visual editing" is the future!

Re:Before everyone starts saying...

[spiritraveller]

Since it's LA county we'll assume you're talking about black Americans - just how old do you think "...all the surviving former slaves..." are?

If you weren't living in the matrix, you'd know what I was talking about.

Re:Before everyone starts saying...

[Anonymous Coward]

That's bullshit and you know it. Slavery does still exist in this world, but it's in Africa. There are no surviving American slaves.

Rotating pronouns

[srcosmo]

My high school Physics teacher was always good at feigning innocence while demolishing this sort of nonsense. In what he claimed was an effort to be gender-neutral, he would send home notices in this style:

... His participation is very important to her final mark. If she has any questions about the material, I would encourage him to contact me directly.

The man was a genius.

you see what happens!?

[hellraizr]

do you see what happens when we allow liberal democrats to take over? we end up with asinine blue laws targetted to enforce morality so everyone can "feel equal". there is a nice thing about living a bush-controlled state (FL not tex-ass) is that we have almost no blue laws like this annoying piece of excrement. sure we have our caveats but no stupid OBVIOUSLY LOBBIED laws coming out of our state. especially being a former-cali resident, I really dispised not being able to smoke ciggerettes on the street in davis county.

It leads one to wonder, when will the madness stop? california is perhaps one of the most progressive states, but it's run by a bunch of art student ass-fucking commies who only care about equality amongst all things. Liberal arts must be a damn requirement of living there.

I have never in my life heard more asinine laws come out of california then as of recent. I mean please, this seems to be the state of "idiots only". the rest of the world is much more mature than to consider a term such as "master/slave" an "offensive" term.

What is it with cali? everyone gets offended over everything!? these slack-arse-dumb-ass's really need to wake the fuck up and smell the 21st century.

I for one am glad I live in a conservitave controlled state where liberal crap like this gets shot down the moment it is conceived. sure we have extreme penalties for crimes that do not fit the punishment, but hey. . . we don't have bleeding heart liberals like that to totally fuck our way of life and take apart our social order by introducing stupid laws that ban context-specific terms such as "master/slave".

I hope the asshole who introduced this law finds his way into oncoming traffic and meets a timely end due to a "master/salve" issue involving a southbound car vs a northbound semi.

Re:you see what happens!?

[interstellar_donkey]

You may have touched on something there with your reference to blue laws. Sometimes I can't help to think that in 100 years, when the equality issue has been delt with and every body has both the access to equality and the impression to equality, that history will look back at our current time with an unfriendly tone.

As a Californian, I don't like the laws. But the sad fact remains that there does exist inequality in this state and in this country. That's not me being a white liberal, that's me stating a fact. Now, at this point, minorities may be behind the curve due to economic reasons instead of some institutional 'racism' that so many pundents love to claim still exist.

There could be a number of reasons minorities are behind and feel they deserve special treatment. Personally, I think it has more to do with their own leadership then anything the big bad white boogyman imposes on them, but I can't say for sure.

What I can say is legislating to the point of insanity isn't the answer, and only helps preserve a system of double standards that doesn't help anybody.

p.s., I was an economics major, not a liberal arts major.

Re:No Master/Slave? Hell NO

[Anonymous Coward]

"We sure don't want you making money at the expense of our town's beautiful name!"

I find it insulting that you would insinuate that I am making any money here. Firstly no money is being made. It is only being transfered. To call me a counterfitter or imply that I am in such dealings is libelous. If you are implying that I have some dealings or am authorized by the governement in question I believe this to be a doubly painful slight to my character. As such I am contemplating breaking your "Anonymous Coward" shield via legal means. Secondly the money being transfered would be going to a most worthy cause which includes royalties to the residents of yes Primary MA, Secondary MA, Primary SL, and Secondary SL.

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok, I'd be perfectly willing to accept that it is unacceptable in any context in British English. Luckily, I don't speak British English, and am not bound in any way by acts of parliment. So I can freely use "they" in the singular if I want to. (I generally don't want to, and try to catch myself when I do, but at least I don't have to worry about being arrested.)

Now, why is using the male pronoun giving the benefit of the doubt? Now THAT sounds a bit sexist to me.

Age Check?

[Spl0it]

I can't say one of my friends or people I know support or agree with any form of human/animal slavery. Now with that said, wtf is wrong with using a word? Thats like saying Anti-Rape site is bad because it uses the word rape. How old are we now?

READ CAREFULLY

[Anonymous Coward]

We would request that each manufacturer, supplier and contractor review, identify and remove/change any identification or labeling of equipment or components thereof that could be interpreted as discriminatory or offensive in nature before such equipment is sold or otherwise provided to any County department. Is it me or does 'request' suddenly mean ban? The headline is poorly chosen. This request is a declaration, not a law, similar to the way any city council or legislature officially commends a teeball team or a church with a vote and a cheap ugly certificate. In the end it's all p.r. FUD.

Been there, done that

[freeweed]

Place I worked at had a very superstitious bookkepper. Oddly, not very religious. But she sure hated the "666" thing.

Apparently it went back to when the boss had a license plate with "666" on it, and his car broke down twice in a year or something.

To add context, we were a license plate issuing place (I won't even try to describe it properly, because of all the different jurisdictions on Slashdot). License plates (here) are issued in numerical sequence, in batches of 50. It was a standing order for years that if we ever got in a box of 650-699, to inform the bookkeeper immediately. She would then go and return the plate as "defective".

Eventually, the folks who supplied them got pissed, so she went to the trouble of using pliers to bend a corner on them after that. It went so far that when one of the new staff issued one to a customer in error, she (the bookkeeper) actually called the customer, informed them that we didn't have the correct plate or something, and got them to come in to do a swap. She just couldn't live with the thought of the evil things that would happen to them.

This also extended to cheques mailed in to us. If it was cheque #666, she would actually rip it up, and call the customer and say we never got the payment. If the amount of an insurance premium was $666.00, she had the whole staff trained to round it down to $665.00.

Ah, the fun we used to have trying to send anything her way that had 666 on it :)

Re:Female/Male next? Context

[�nertia]

Exactly right. Unfortunately these well known technical definitions, don't stay in thier technical context forever. If this were the only meanings then there wouldn't be a problem. Unfortunately not everyone understands or uses these terms for the way You or I may.

It's like how some languages commons words for yes and no sound like obsenitys in english. Speakers of these languages just don't use them around english speakers.

The same.
I'm not advocated one side over the other (Hmm maybe I am a little), But censorhsip at this level is not going to work and is unliberal. If someone up the design standards ladders a long time ago had understood, these simple rules of politeness we wouldn't be here today. =-)

Now you've done it!

[Anonymous Coward]

The Satanists are picketing.

Re:webmaster - web weaver

[plover]

"Web weaver" simply ruins my job title: "web slave".

No, when they correctified the names around here, we all became "coding monkeys" and so the bosses became "organ grinders." Since that's all they were doing before the name change anyway ...

But seriously, folks, they said wanted us to change all our server combinations from "Master and Slave" to "Dominatrix and worm" ... or was that "Pimps" and "Hos"?

I got a million of 'em! Tip your servers, folks.

Of course they will

[phorm]

But not until it's convenient. The fact that it's now been made an issue is even more of an excuse to use it should somebody find reason.

Got that techie whom you promised a raise 3 months ago and is now getting a little upset... can him for using "racially bias" terms... the government has now paved your way.

Luckily mice have gone IR nowadays, otherwise politicians may have taken offence to the many ways to misconstrue the fact that the mice had "balls"

Psuedo Fight Club Quote

[Anonymous Coward]

To hack up a quote from Fight Club:
The people you are after are the people you depend on: We code your software, we fix your computers, we connect your calls, we run your databases. We deliver your e-mail while you sleep. Do not FUCK with us!

My Girlsfriend!!!

[soft_guy]

You're the one who insulted my girlfirend, you insensitive clod!

Re:My Girlsfriend!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

your girl friend? your dating my sister?

oh well doc strawls said she should tell everyone she had sex with to go down and get that shot. better hurry

Re:My Girlsfriend!!!

[NanoGator]

"You're the one who insulted my girlfirend, you insensitive clod! "

Are you saying he made the story up?

Re:My Girlsfriend!!!

[dmachine]

Come on, this is slashdot. We all know girlfriends don't exist.

Manhole is neutral

[phorm]

Wouldn't the "man" and "hole" parts cancel each other out gender-specific wise?

Re:Manhole is neutral

[Anonymous Coward]

True. Although really i guess that wouldn't stop them, they'd invent something new to complain about, like the fact that the "man" comes before the "hole", reflecting phallocentric bias or some nonsense like that.

Simple, provide acronyms

[dingleberrie]

Refer to them as
Monitoring Apex System Taking Reconnaissance (MASTR)
and
System Likely Answering Veraciously (SLAV)

Should be clear enough.

The answer

[Brad Mace]

Any collection of devices with connection should either take turns making the decisions, or should hold a voluntary election where all devices have equal influence.

The answer is obviously for the devices to form an anarcho-syndicalist commune operating over bluetooth. The devices would take turns operating as executive device, with the decisions of the executive being ratified by a simple majority in the case of local tasks, and by a two-thirds majority in the case of distributed or parallel tasks.

Of course, 'blue' might offend smurfs, and 'tooth' may be offensive to babies, the elderly, and other s with poor dental hygiene.

Discrimination

[C10H14N2]

I find this blatant attack on the SM community offensive, particularly in light of the recent sexual orientation anti-discrimination laws passed in California. What happens behind closed doors between me and my hard drive should not be subject to government approval. Come, Slave. ---Je-je---Jesus Christ...

frist psot!!!!!

[Incompetent Troll]

Bow before me, slaves.

Here's my bid...

[lone_marauder]

jumper removal for 50000 hard drives - $457,000
25000 new IDE cables - $1,250,000

Making them pay for their own stupidity - priceless.

webster was a racist.

[Anonymous Coward]

I say we strike the words from the dictionary, or declare all dictionary's racist.

how sad that we even entertain the idea for fear of litigation.

PC Unix

[moanads]

Did I ever tell you the story about the plan to release PC UNIX - Politically Correct UNIX ? Back in the good old days of AT&T, there was a lot of criticism levelled against UNIX because of it's apparent gender bias - if you're stuck and need help, you look up the "man" pages. Pray, why not "woman" pages ? So it was decided that things should change. The best minds were brought in and they all concurred that it was indeed a matter of a few minutes' work to fix things. And so was the Mission Statement written - remove all traces of the offending word. The fix was scheduled for a Friday evening so that they could have the project completion dinner that night. The project was appropriately called "Plan for dinner at 9".

The day of the release dawned. "Find and replace all occurences of man by woman", decreed Sed, the project manager and the minions went to work and as predicted, in a few minutes they were done. Just as they were about to declare the project closed, an eager beaver pointed out that they hadn't gone through the release readiness review yet. So Grep, the chief tester, was called in. He ran a cryptic command and found that the offending word was still present - all over the place. After hurriedly consulting the Mission Statement, they realised they now had to get rid of the "man" in "woman". Sed, the project manager, was called in again and he repeated his decree. The minions toiled but for a few minutes before their work was done but once again they failed to pass Grep's muster - they now had to get rid of the "man" in "wowoman". Once again they appealed to Sed's finer sense of judgement and for a third time, he repeated his decree. Once again the minions laboured, but this time there were a few who grumbled, especially when at the end of it Grep asked them to remove the "man" from "wowowoman". The entire rigmarole was repeated over and over again. The last time anyone from the external world observed them, they still hadn't finished their work and for some strange reason, everyone was going "wowowowowowowo...." And there was no sign of that dinner either.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[rjamestaylor]

I met this same girl at the just-off-campus pizza buffet joint. Maybe not the same instance, but class: self-righteous, pop-culturally correct, loud.

She was the patron just in line ahead of me. When she got to the register she demanded: "You will put out vegetarian pizzas, right? I'm a vegetarian and I do not eat meat" -- but loves cheese, I thought -- " and I refuse to kill a defenseless animal for my nutrition."

The cashier informed her that the store always provided vegetarian pizzas on its buffets for people who, for one reason or another, preferred them.

What happened next was purely by reflex and was not pre-meditated.

I said: "You will put out meat pizzas, right? I am a carnivore and I believe it is unethical to kill and eat defenseless little plants which are rooted in the ground and are unable to put up any fight at all against human harvestors. Animals at least have a chance to escape or mount a defense."

And there was much laughter and rejoicing.

Bring on SATA

[gumpish]

Maybe the county should upgrade all of their hardware with Serial ATA controllers and devices. No Master/Slave relationship there. One cable per drive...

Americans are so silly!

[kawabago]

This beats the Harry Potter book burning in Arkansas!

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[fcw]

...de-ambigouize...

I must inform you that your English licence has just been revoked.

More fun with Ms. O'Leary

[SeanAhern]

I believe this same Hazel O'Leary was also purported to say that she wanted "male" and "female" electrical connectors to be renamed at Lawrence Livermore Nat'l Lab. She considered the terms to be sexist and unacceptible.

(Yes, I know this has been joked about in this thread. But I hear this actually happened from the Secretary of Energy.)

genteel bribes at work

[farquharsoncraig]

Perhaps LA county is bought and owned by wealthy wanton celebrities.

People Get Nervous

[WryCoder]

I've always pronounced gigabyte as "jiggabyte", and the last time I looked, the IEEE agreed with me. But the usage has definitely switched to "ghiggabyte" over time. (The root is "giant", and I've never heard anyone say "guyant".)

I think some people just get really uncomfortable saying "jiggabyte". Maybe those guys in LA can make a pronouncement on this while they're at it.

I can agree that...

[Anonymous Coward]

...Change is probably a real necessity, but definitely the County office has gone about it completely the wrong way. On a related but sideways note; do you suppose that the people who proposed this ban are going to stop using their cars now? Cars use the terminology Brake Master cylinders and Brake Slave cylinders... I'd love to see them try to dictate their terms to the Car industry ;-)

Re:I can agree that...

[�nertia]

I'm pretty sure that the car industry allready has naming practices for new components. There are a few funny instances of cross cultural marketing translations. I have a document with a big list. It's amusing how many companys that went transnational during the 80's managed to screw up slogans etc. Thankfully the 90's sure a new awareness through most organisations about these types of issues. However there is still a huge market for people on mutlicultural (I.e this particular example) and crosscultural issues, in marketing and planning. One good one. Pepsi's : Choice of a New Generation In Indonessian (Bahasa Indonesia): Pepsi brings your ancestors back from the dead.

Nikes symbol means somthing in one of the midle eastern scripts, and it's not nice either =-).

Their are numerous other ones like this. Basically it's the same base issue, not making the culture checks, which are just a normal polite way.

Re:Honestly, who wastes their time making this cra

[Anonymous Coward]

well its time well spent, i enjoy reading it!

Refinement

[Atragon]

What about: "McBoss/McEmployee"

It shows that the employee has no real chance of advancement or improvement in its situation, it can only do its McJob.

Pretty much the same deal as Manager/Employee, but more relevant to today.

Hear, Hear, I am not a Victim!

[Logger]

Well said!!

Now everyone repeat after me.

I am not a Victim!
I am not a Victim!
I am not a Victim!
I am not a Victim!

Politicians discovered that identifying YOU as a VICTIM plays well in the media. Arrrgh!

Say it again. I am not a Victim. Now start living that way!

"I am not a Victim" curtesy of Michael Medved :)

Too much time on their hands

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently a local politician with too little to do has taken it upon themselves to dictate to several industries terminology used throught the world. The industry should respond promptly and without hesitation with the response "BITE ME A**HOLE, IF YOU WANT TO MOLLYCODDLE YOURSELF, BUILD YOUR OWN FSCK ING EQUIPMENT!" (please remember to spell 'fskc ing' correctly). Seriously though, someone here truly has an inflated sense of being. Being rude and offensive to them may not be useful, but ignoring their requests will. If they press, then get rude.

Attack the small things it's easier.

[hankmask]

I'm a African-American web designer/geek and never took offense to the term Mater/Slave. But, I do get offened by alot of thing in the tech industry(hiring practices, unequal schooling for minorities, high price of new G5's).

If the term to describe HD set up was something like Yankee/Confederate, Nazi/Jew, USA/Canada, or something else along those lines people won't stand for it. African-American are the most resent victums of Slavery(it only ended less than 150years ago) It is only reasonible that people are still upset. In 150 years will the Holocaust be a forgotten memory?

It is sad that we cant change the larger problems in our world.

Re:Attack the small things it's easier.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, as if an African-American so preoccupied with being oppressed by the man would be holding down a job. Unless you're an affirmative action hire, I guess. More likely, a honky troll.

~~~

Just call it "White" and "Black"

[Anonymous Coward]

That will sure piss them off.

Hazel O'Leary?

[RussP]

Where have you guys been? Clinton's airhead secretary of Energy, Hazel O'Leary, once did basically the same thing with regard to master/slave synchros at a nuclear power plant. She also gutted the security at our nuclear labs and de-classified 10,000,000 pages of nuclear research documents. Didn't hear about it? You must watch CNN.

Bullshit.

[Atragon]

Your male you know that women get payed less, hold lower status positions, and must work harder than male counterparts, to attain these.

I assume that by this you're refering to the (supposed) earnings gap between men and women? I can tell you that as far as I've seen, at least in the service industry, it's the opposite way around.

I used to work in a movie theater, at one time, we had 5 food service supervisors, 2 men, 3 women. 2 were really good at their jobs, 2 were good, and one was crap. Guess which one was crap.

Additionally, when I walk into a fast-food restaurant, I notice that behind the counter, most of the time, it's a woman on the cash, and a guy in the back cooking the food, with a woman supervisor.

I don't have any personal experience with corporate culture, but from my point of view, the pendulum has started to swing the other way.

Re:Bullshit.

[�nertia]

Your sort of proving my point here. The lower status jobs, and those which are ladder based (I.e McDonald Management chain), are operated by Woman because they can be the only way in for many. It's often you find l women being passivly descriminated against especially in fast paced carrears because of a perception that they will be less comitted. This of course is bollocks.

I don't know about your example, but it seems like your again proving my point by implying that this is the sterotypical case. In fact showing the very real passive discrimination that your calling bullshit.

Performance differences are negligble between male and females. As for the pay inequity and oportunity, don't beleive me, go find any Industrial Organisation, Management, HR, Or Organisational PSychology text, and you are sure to find more exact figures supporting these claims. The Penndulum will only stop when people don't use Gender to provide explanatory differences. Especially in an equal field like food service industry. The employee you talk about most likely was crap, but i'm sure it had nothing to do with gender as you imply.

Re:Bullshit.

[Atragon]

Actually, the point I was trying to make was that we (the employees) couldn't figure out why the supervisor in question was promoted. It certainly wasn't their skill.

Re:Bullshit.

[Transcendent]

Performance differences are negligble between male and females.

BULLSHIT! It's called testosterone... Wanna go head to head in pushups? Why the hell do you think they have men and womens sports that are segregated off?

I'd give you lots and lots of examples of jobs where men would perform better (basically, on average anything that involves hard labor), but that's horribly obvious and anyone with a few braincells firing away would realise that.

Well what about for business? Intimidation is a big factor in getting the job done and getting your company what it needs when meeting with clients/peers. How do you intimidate? With pure looks and posture. Does a feminly posture intimidate? Hell no! Even take a man and make him a little feminine... I'd laugh at him in the business place.

There's a difference between men and women. If you don't understand it, take a frekin bio class at your local community college. We think differently, act differently, look differently, and perform differently. There's no way around it. That's just how nature made it...

Go ahead and say im using sexist language and all your other pseud-arguments to "prove" your point... you're wrong.

Re:Bullshit.

[�nertia]

Do you really think physical power actually makes any difference in most professional occupations today? Or are you just baiting me?. Sports and the real world are different. As far as your examples of 'hard labour' these types of menial tasks are normally facilitated by machines, making physical power negligible factor. I understand that there are a few examples where this is not the case... These are the Exception not the rule. Your argument based on physical power only exemplifies that beating your chest and running around whacking the other memebers of the 'group' still is considered a survival statagie(Hmmm, Bush and American escalation of war jokes goes here).

Well what about for business? Intimidation is a big factor in getting the job done and getting your company what it needs when meeting with clients/peers. How do you intimidate? With pure looks and posture. Does a feminly posture intimidate? Hell no! Even take a man and make him a little feminine... I'd laugh at him in the business place.
ARG!!! How can you say your not proving my arguments for me!. Your saying that the traits involved with being succesfull are Masculine... Moreso than this your go on to imply that Feminine traits are involved with lack of sucess!!. All that these traits are involved with (I have lots of studys about this one) is that individuals who value masculine traits over feminine, tend to be, More aggresive, subject to pathological thought, support Authoritarian groups, support those groups in power, and support notions of Social Dominance(most of these are independent of biological SEX). There is nothing about success involved with these traits, appart from the fact that by social dominant groups tend to act in their groups intrests, and actively go against others(I have written a These on Open source comminitys/peer production models, and traditional corporate firm/market production methods, using some of these arguemtns). It is a fallacie that these 'traits' lead to productivity/success, in fact any success comes because of the structures involved in place already by the socially dominant group to ensure easier access by those who fit thier categorys. This isn't theory it's real world application. think about it or a minute and your might see the relevance of all this before blindly positing again.

As for your differences, Sure genetically they exist, but biology and evolutionary psychology, can't jump to causal inferences from the simple modeling of genetics, as they examine the situation in place and then go and look for the gene/genetic expression. I.E Bad science! And besides, there is a great deal of research showing that how we view and interact with other is independant of our biological sex. Think Transgendered, or girls or are brought up as boys, for the most part the Social (and that's what I'm talking about, social interactions) part of their lives are complete independant of their sex.

=-)

Re:Bullshit.

[Transcendent]

These are the Exception not the rule.

If the rule has so many expeptions (and it has more than you obviously think)... then it really isn't a rule. You need people for hard labor, you need physical ability, robots aren't doing all the work for us, you need agression in situations... just think police officers, mechanics, builders, technicians, etc... if there is a rule it is most definately not in your favor.

saying that the traits involved with being succesfull are Masculine... Moreso than this your go on to imply that Feminine traits are involved with lack of sucess!!

Yes. In certian matters absolutely yes. If you cannot see that your physical apperance/posture matters, then what kind of shell are you living in? When you are in direct contact with other people, apperance matters. As for being an engineer or a scientist, your brain matters (and not many scientists are that physically intimidating, like some in the business world). For that matter, men and women do think differently. Women more emotional, men less so (studies back this, I'm sorry that I cant link to them, but yes, of course there are a few exceptions). Even when working long hours into the night in any job, a little extra energy would help out (i.e. testestrone building stronger muscles with more stamina).

Frankly, in any case men and women generally will react differently (even in the slightest sense). So why fight it and say we are purely equal?

Think Transgendered, or girls or are brought up as boys, for the most part the Social (and that's what I'm talking about, social interactions) part of their lives are complete independant of their sex.

As you would put it, they are the exception... not the rule.

Re:Bullshit.

[�nertia]

You still havn't grasped the core argument here. (in terms of sucess) You qualifying everything circularly, the reaons we have these categorys which define sucess in terms of domination/aggression, is because of the categorys that we prescribe... I won't argue that these traits do matter... that's not what i'm saying, what i'm saying is that they only matter because that's how the world has become contructed, and that's why leveling the field in terms of these representations is important. They do matter, but they shouldn't, and don't have to, you don't need psyical power to be any of the categories defined.. there are plenty of other than male genders occupying these roles... why it continues to be so little is the self forfilling prophesy of the sterotypes you show in your littany.

Re:Bullshit.

[Anonymous Coward]

you need agression in situations... just think police officers, mechanics, builders, technicians, etc
WTF!! Technicians? Technicans need to be small wirery buggers...
Aggression? why would a mechanic, builder or tech need to be aggresive? As for the cop, isn't this the major problem with the US police force... too much of it!!!

Re:Bullshit.

[Transcendent]

They do matter, but they shouldn't, and don't have to, you don't need psyical power to be any of the categories defined.. there are plenty of other than male genders occupying these roles

Sure you don't need to be physically strong to be a cop, a construction worker... but those who are get the job done better (unless, of course, you have a desk job... which then goes into the argument of how men and women think differently). Frankly, a man who runs the same amount of time as a woman will most likely (I'm guessing around the 80% range) be faster than the woman. So which one is going to catch the fleeing fellon?

Differences like these aren't limited to sex either. Africans are better runners and jumpers, for example (longer achilles tendon). Every "race" is different, and with that difference comes different strong and weak points... just like sex. It's how nature "constructed" our world. It's our or world has been for a long long time. To think you can take yourself out of the constructed reality nature has put us in is arrogant and simply impossible without altering the very genes we're made of.

Re:Bullshit.

[�nertia]

Your running story is slightly out of whack. Your talking about athletics, i'm talking about your average joe and jane. The same goes for your racial genetic differences arguments .

So do you trully believe that these genetic differences should be criteron for selection and performance evaluation of "Normal" mundane jobs? How relevant is it that I have a more promenent nose, or skin which is more efficent at producing vitamin E, Or that I have a differnt shape to my chromosome? Your talking about evolutionary genetic stratagies that have evolved over millions of years due to survival enviromental conditions. How usefull have these traits been to the human species since societys began a mere 10 thousand years ago? Not at all. Because these enviromental needs don't exist in civilisation. Any evolution taking place in this time had been a normalisation of these traits accross all races, you could argue that any pronounced racial advantage long ago disapeared, as the survial of a member of our species generally depends not on how fast, strong, or resistant to the sun you are. We live in a homogenised enviroment, where extremes are mild in comparison to evolution where death makes selection. Your not arguing or Darwinistic Evolution your Arguing for Larmarkian Evolution. Which has no grounding. As for mate selection you could argue that this has been the main basis or transfer of genetic material over the last 10000 years, and that this MUST be related to desirable physical traits... But this line of reasoning falls short, attractiveness is very definately a socially constructed individual understanding.

As for the thinking differently That's bollocks, that's tied into the constructed social roles argument.

However you can go out and find ample evidence of gender related differences in attitudes and cognitions, sure... note Gender as the word not SEX.

All you have to do to neutralise the effects of biological sex (in nearly ALL reasearch) is add a measure of feminity-masculinity (or Measure of Gender self identity) to your study.... What you find when you take this into account (as a co-variate, or through regression... your choice) is that differences relating to actual SEX are normally non-significant. i.e It's not Sex that's determining these differences it's self perceptions of the traits involved with societys labeling of sex. I.e it's a construct which is overlayed any natural biological expression (OK there are a few differences , but these are definately not related to as you put it "thinking differnt" nor are they related to any sort of higher level appreciation.) And further what few differences have been found (most noteably spatial rotation, and field search tasks, the only two scientifically SOUND, sex related cognitive differences) have become less pronounced over the last century.

We are educated... Stupid Four corner cube space is only way...

Re:Bullshit.

[Transcendent]

note Gender as the word not SEX.

Gender:
The condition of being female or male; sex.
(American Heritage(R) Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition)

Yea, good job there.

As for the thinking differently That's bollocks, that's tied into the constructed social roles argument.

Hopefully this will cure your "non-difference" stance:

Read me
Me too
Don't forget me
I'll end with this one

Such ballocks.... indeed... (be sure to read the WHOLE article in each case...)

Physical characteristics aside... men and women think differently. End of story.

The philosophical and logical attack you have when presenting your arguments is entirely unscientific. You state statistics, probibilities, and analise human behavior on a purely social and artificial standpoint... much in the same effect as politicians actually choosing the most rational course of action for the government - that method is horrible at actually getting the job done.

The only way to fully understand a problem is to figure out what is going on below the surface. Your approach of analyzing social behavior and performance in the work place based on how they were brought up is like trying to understand a computer by measuing how hot the insides get and what kinds of noises it makes.... you can't.

I'm done with this argument.

Re:Bullshit.

[�nertia]

I thought we progressed past dictionary definitions a while ago. Gender as it is used in the social sciences is as I have presented it. Don't beleive me go find an academic in one of those fields that you trust and ask them.

The condition of being male or female... that actually implies conditional relevance dosn't it?

I'll review your article in reverse order...
d) Oh GAWD!!! It's a first year Biology paper! Your drawing conclusions from a freshman undergraduate work which doesn't even cite biological or neuropsycholical journals... the author evens goes so far to say at one point: the inconsistencies that plague this area of research should be regarded as evidence for the complexity of the underlying question involved and the variation intrinsic in the answer.

Yes Brain structure differences exist and specific areas of control have differnt trends depending on species. The fact is that these are trends, and that individual differnces vary far more than any sex related gender trend. This articles author fails to grasp that. Pop Psyc like this is anoying, it's like saying "I'm a left brained person... therefore i'm more logial" It's nonsense, there are hymespheric asymertrys in all functions, appart from purposes of identification of areas of possible damage there is no relevance to personality or cognition (there is a link to a myths page about popular notions of left/right brain pop crap on the same page... no less). How does the fact that I note a trend in sex linked difference in brain structure imply a relation to how we understand the world anymore than the differences your brain structure or my brain structure are most likely quite physically differnt.
Hormones effect development, however there is little evidence related to the direct effect of hormones on actual perception/cognition. I will concede that hormones may act as regulators of certain neurological functions, but making that causal leap is too large for this skeptic to accept.

Article, c) Ok, i've known about this for a while, there is even a marker gene for homosexuality. This article typifys alot of hardcore biological sentiment, the problem is that they are still confusing what gender is, by operating on an outmoded psychological framework, (Biological sciences work to mostly a framework of Behaviourism and Evolutionary psychology), This is a very interesting and provocative area at the moment. The fact you bring it up demonstrates the power of genetics to define categorys which instantly offer a basis for discrimination. This is closest to the argument of the original thread. And offer a good insight into how simple categorys create conflict(Called minimal group paradigm in psychology). It also demonstrates the power of authoritvie sources. However it offer no insight into our argument about sex differences because it is merely confirming the obvious that genetic markers influence expression of physical traits. There introductory speil is misleading because the evidence presented offers little insight into the heading topic. Similarily they go onto to talk about ambigious genitalia differences and doctors gender labeling at birth. If you actually research transgender issues some more you will find that, even using genetic markers to identify TRUE SEX, many transgenders make choices against these genetics both knowinly and unknowingly. This only demonstrates that any confusion relating to gender with these individuals cannot truelly be a matter of genes....

b) It's just a newspaper report... common, your can't understand these types of concepts through popular media, they spin it. Trust me i've seen plenty of studies that i've had privy to, end up in the newspaper and not be anything near what the study was finding...Anyway.. this story is a rehash of the same studies, I gurantee the researchers were taken out of context on both counts. I agree if we were to research the areas of growth which these genes have, and then control over

How long until...

[xRelisH]

some wacko gay rights activist comes out and complains about the fact that one cannot have two male or two female connectors connected without an adapter.

Make L.A. County Pay For This

[Caceman]

Somebody in L.A. County, perhaps a feel-good "cause-based" activist, should sue LA County based on the grounds that their support of in place systems using this terminology is offensive. Let L.A. County pay millions of dollars to correct the labelling on every piece of hardware that uses the master/slave terminology. They can't just say "from now on" this terminology is illegal, they need to fix the current "injustices" inherent in the system.

okay, i need to quit my job at the porn company

[jCaT]

I read this and the first thing I thought of was bondage, not slavery. Sign number 472 that working for a porn company does mess with your head.

Re:webmaster - web weaver

[edb]

Yes, they have mastered the concept of political correctness...

Oops! I mean they have woven the concept [into a tangled web?]

I dont want to be a slave ...

[Alain Williams]

to political correctness.

The desired result it to eliminate master/slave from the dictionary. The result will be that future generations will not understand the words, the result will be that they won't appreciate the effects of slavery of their ancestors. That would be a home goal.

I want to use the English language to its full extent. This sort of thing makes description fuzzier.

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[JimBobJoe]

I would much rather it go the other way -- singular conjugations could de-ambigouize the singular they.

A very sensible idea, but regrettably one which wouldn't work for English. The history of English is that it is running away from (verbal) inflections. If anything, I could see "they" becoming a very well accepted 3rd person singular pronoun, and then that causing the "-s" ending on 3rd person singular present tense verbs to start disappearing, so all the present tense, regular verbs would be the same. If this were Russian, a highly inflected language that Russians like to sit around all day re-inflecting, then perhaps your idea could work....

We still do have a healthy set of inflections for nouns from singular to plural (which are innovations stemming from somewhere else.)

box>>boxen (admittedly something from the computing world...but it's the one I can think of.)

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[Glock27]

And there was much laughter and rejoicing.

Nice story. I thought the punchline was going to be the usual observations about leather shoes, belt, purse, jacket etc.

I always liked the original peta.org website (the one that was hijacked eventually by the actual PETA organization - another nasty display of political correctness and disregard for the 1st Amendment). People Eating Tasty Animals - I can get behind that concept! ;-)

the Office

[runlvl0]

"... they are baseball terms as well as butt-sex terms."

Made me think of the Office:
Gareth: "My dad, for example, he's not as cosmopolitan or as educated as me and it can be embarrasing you know. He doesn't understand all the new trendy words - like he'll say 'poofs' instead of 'gays', 'birds' instead of 'women', 'darkies' instead of 'coloureds'."

Personally, I support butt-sex term limits!

Flip-flops

[Anonymous Coward]

Quick, anybody know what we can call the classic master-slave (d'oh!) flip-flop design now?

Re:Flip-flops

[Patrik_AKA_RedX]

Quick, anybody know what we can call the classic master-slave (d'oh!) flip-flop design now?

Easy: Master-slave switch-on-switch-offs (flipflop might be insulting to people who change their oppinions often.)

Better would be:

[goldfndr]

One. When one uses one in a general sense, there is no gender required. One is likely to receive fewer complaints when using one rather than they in a singular form.

Re:Better would be:

[Dave2 Wickham]

Not always true...
The following (crap) sentance uses both words, and makes sense; using "one" both times would not:

If one is playing [insert card game here] and has run out of cards, the dealer must shuffle the discard pile, making sure they do not be swayed by goatse.cx, which has just appeared on the sole monitor in the room.

Re:Better would be:

[LedZeplin]

they do not be swayed

Yeak, makes perfect sense.

Re:Better would be:

[Eravau]

they do not be swayed

Might I suggest:
not to to be swayed

Re:Better would be:

[Fjord]

'One' is a generic, while 'they' refers to a specific person or people.

One should not speak out of turn.
They should not speak out of turn.

The first prescribes a rule for all, the second a judgement against a person or group of people.

Re:Better would be:

[Dave2 Wickham]

I would've used "they are not swayed" if I'd caught it...

Redneck's disappoitned

[kidgenius]

Well shoot,
I guess this is really going to upset those backwood bumpkins that created these new-fangled computers and decided to use these terms just for the purposes of offending the black people.

Hegel

[Anonymous Coward]

So will philosophy have to teach Hegel without references to master/slave dialectics? Or Nietzsche without master/slave moralities?

Endian?

[yourlord]

Someone better not let them know that the machines they are using also store data in Little Endian and Big Endian byte orders.. Will this offend some Native Americans and Indians?

Re:Endian?

[Anonymous Coward]

No they wont mind, but the Lilliputions will.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[rjamestaylor]

Nice story.

And true. Happened at Mr Gattis off UTA campus in Arlington, TX, around 1993.

LA .. youngest, most ignorant child of California

[Anonymous Coward]

First The Governator, now this. On a slightly relevent subject, I am no longer allowed to use the word 'stupid' to refer to someone that is acting, well, stupid - Thanks to my friend Jenny who has become a fan of euthanastic language. She won't even let me call them cognitively disabled!
-vince-

Here's another one for you... blackboards...

[Anonymous Coward]

...It has been decreed in the UK education system that blackboards are no longer to exist.

Instead they are to be renamed 'chalkboards', any reference to them in a class must be by the new name.

Of course, those things that you use dry-wipe marker pens on are still called 'whiteboards'....

Sure, PC has a place (I remember books as a child that really have no place in a library or school... a certain character from a jam [jelly, for the USA'ians] advertisement...), but I think most people will agree that it goes too far a lot of the time.

-JS

Re:Here's another one for you... blackboards...

[Desirsar]

Really? People here have called those dry-erase boards (on which you use dry-erase markers, of course) for as long as I can remember. The only place I see whiteboard used anymore are online programs (like MSN Messenger) that let you draw stupid smiley faces and bad Japanese at your cute (but taken) female Japanese friends online.

LA is pretty much balanced

[sideshow]

You're thinking of the state which is fucked by the county is doing just fine.

Re:LA is pretty much balanced

[Anonymous Coward]

LA's budget might be balanced, but anything else is questionable.

They'er wlcome...

[jeti]

Those girls are welcome to visit the mens restrooms.
But no way I'm gonna sit down on a urinal.

PS: I don't know about the US. But in Germany it's quite common for women to use mens restroom if the queue in front of the womens restrooms gets too long. I've been in discos where it has been officially announced that the mens rooms are now free fo the girls to use.

Is it the same in the US or are they more prude?

Re:They'er wlcome...

[binarytoaster]

I've been to fairs and such where the line for the girls bathroom was too long, so some girls would have their friends stand guard while they used the men's...

I remember this distinctly because they tried to stop me from entering, "our friend's in there" "well what's the silly girl doing in the MEN'S BATHROOM? Not my fault you use yours as a meeting place, now I have to GO"...

They threatened security, I pointed out that the sign clearly said "men" :P

controller and controlled?

[Anonymous Coward]

I say man, what lunacy. It goes beep beep beep beep bloop beep beep bloop.

Slave of Ignorance

[Anonymous Coward]

The person who started the complaint (was offended) was obviously a slave to ignorance, and needs to learn some degree of mastery in how language and terminology is used in communications so as to avoid ridiculous offense in the future. Those in the L.A. city government who acted subsequent to the complaint also demonstrated slavery to ignorance, and mastery of foolishness. Maybe they're bureaucrats who without such hobby horses to ride, would have to sit idle at their desks, unable to justify their continued employment.

I'm with Dawkins on this one

[CGP314]

I am distressed to find that some women friends (fortunately not many) treat the use of the impersonal masculine pronoun as if it showed intention to exclude them. If there were any excluding to be done (happily there is not) I think I would sooner exclude men, but when I once tentatively tried referring to my abstract reader as "she", a feminist denounced me for patronizing condescension: I ought to say "he-or-she", and "his-or-her". That is easy to do if you do not care about language, but then if you do not care about language you do not deserve readers of either sex. Here, I have returned to the normal conventions of English pronouns. I may refer to the "reader" as "he", but I no more think of my readers as specifically male than a French speaker thinks of a table as female. As a matter of fact I believe I do, more often than not, think of my readers as female, but that is my personal affair and I'd hate to think that such considerations impinged on how I use my native language

Re:I'm with Dawkins on this one

[dasmegabyte]

I always thought a speaker should just use his own gender all the time to keep it simple. My grammar coach begged to differ. He said, if a person was to use examples in the hypothetical, she should switch back and forth between genders so as to obscure the issue to the point of being a non issue. Using 'they' is right out because it requires a tense change (though it's not necessarily wrong...i mean, if people are writing their books for an audience, they should expect more than one person will read it. However, this whole s/he and 'he or she' business is just absurd. It's needless obfuscation for the sake of appeasement to a segment that is just as easily served by other methods. Like completely depersonalizing examples and referring to the group as an "it."

Re:I'm with Dawkins on this one

[bigbigbison]

When I was finishing up my master's thesis i was writing about a hypothetical audience that in fact could be male or female. I was conscious of the fact that if i used "he" that most readers would assume I was talking only about men becasue the subject matter is a field that is dominated by men, but I wanted to make statements that could apply to anyone.

Thus i avoided using "he" by carefully wording my sentences so that I avoided singuglar pronouns entirely. Using words like the player, ther reader, and one. I can only remember one instance in the 100+ pages where I couldn't think of a way to word the sentence adequately without using a pronoun and had to resort to "he or she."

My point is that we can write effectively without having to explicitly or implicitly chose a gendered pronoun if the gender is in fact at issue.

Re:I'm with Dawkins on this one

[LittleBigLui]

Thus i avoided using "he" by carefully wording my sentences so that I avoided singuglar pronouns entirely. Using words like the player, ther reader, and one.

You anglophones have no idea how easy your lives are in that area.

In german, all words have a grammatical gender, being either masculinum, femininum or neutrum. Obviously, those are usually correlated with their respective "biological" genders where applicable, but not neccessarily so: the table, neutral by nature, is "der Tisch", grammatically male. The girl is "das Madchen", usually female by nature, but with the neutrum article.

Based upon this distinction we have female forms for most of the nouns describing people ("der Spieler" - player, "die Spielerin" - female player), too.

Plus we can't use "one" there either, because that's "man" in german, being WAY too close to our word for a male member of the human species, "Mann".

Both of these issues can be (and are, especially in more left-wing, feminist, whatever contexts) resolved by simply resorting to brutally raping the language by inventing constructs like "SpielerIn" for gender-neutral player, and "man/frau" for a gender-neutral "one" - note how the "Mann" got chopped off his last letter there, while "Frau" (woman) is written in full.

Even worse, i recently read an article (in a rather leftist newspaper, but still) about a feminist group who found out that the first programmers were actually women. Now in german a computer is just that, a "Computer", taken literally from english, but with a male article, hence "der Computer" (that article probably stems from the more native word for calculator, "der Rechner"). So those fine ladies wanted to chop off the end of the word and change the article (endings in -er usually indicate male article in german, while -e usually means female; and yes i'm scared about that chopping fetish, too) and change the word to "die Compute".

Re:I'm with Dawkins on this one

[LittleBigLui]

Madchen

&Ouml; my g&ouml;d, Sl&auml;shd&ouml;t &auml;te my &Uuml;ml&auml;&uuml;ts!

politics and hobson's choices...

[JimBobJoe]

Politicians have to grow and pair and get some thicker skin.

As noted in several other posts, this issue was not caused by politicians directly.

However, it could have had a very similar outcome had politicians become involved. It's not so much the fact that politicians are stupid (though they can be) it's that voters don't do their homework and get fed stupid lines.

So a bunch of smart politicians realize that the whole master/slave thing is a white elephant that's irrelevant. They vote against it. Candidates running against them say that the current politicos are discriminatory and don't believe in diversity. A quick check into the record says otherwise but the reputation has already been set, and will take time to resolve. (This situation happens in a slightly different form to Republicans all the time. They may find themselves in a very conservative district, and once everything is said and done, discover that the right thing to do in a particular situation would be to raise taxes. Well that's just a death knell, and if someone runs against them in the primary, they just say that the incumbent is a tax raising pinko-commie; even though the incumbent may really be a spendthrift who was just dealing with a bad situation. For the Dems, Clinton will never live down reforming welfare from the more liberal parts of the political spectrum.)

At any rate, such a situation is preventable-- the head of the legislative body will realize the situation and simply prevent the bill from being voted on. That saves everyone's ass...regrettably, that's not always possible.

I wonder if...

[devnulljapan]

...this means that "based on the cultural diversity and sensitivity of Los Angeles County" they'll require the police to refrain from beating black and hispanic men to a pulp

I can only say...

[RAMMS EIN]

Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[Anonymous Coward]

naw just call them it

Wonko the Sane

[Blackneto]

I have found you...

Hahaha.. OMG...

[Anonymous Coward]

If only they could abandon the electrical chair..

FREE THE SLAVES

[Dr. GeneMachine]

Well, for performance reasons, I recently installed a PCI IDE controller card making all my drives masters. I named it Spartakus - FREE THE SLAVES!!!

It has to do with all the Mexican illegals

[Anonymous Coward]

All the gang war is the blacks and mexicans going at it. These people didn't help in the modern world, nor will they ever create a successful country on their own. Lets send them back and live in peace with our own kind.

abort, retry, cancel?

[Graspee_Leemoor]

"I will now sit back and prepare to be assaulted by people who can show me otherwise."

Well, there's the old debate over the "abort" in "abort, retry, cancel?" which is well known for sparking criticisms of political incorrectness. I don't think any group has ever made a serious motion for it to be changed, but there are certainly a lot of internet discussions on the topic, see for example here:

http://66.102.11.104/search?q=cache:59CPdrHscLoJ :w ww.raycomm.com/techwhirl/archives/9611/techwhirl-9 611-00436.html+abort+%22political+correctness%22+c omputer+term&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

graspee

Misguided Political Correctness

[Anonymous Coward]

If I understand the resoning behind this issue correctly, the decision to remove the terms "master" and "slave" is due to the historical reference to slavery in America. I agree with the government of L.A. that American slavery was a dark period of human history. However, I doubt that they are addressing the issue correctly. It appears that this group of misguided, politically correct people will never understand the distinction between real people and inanimate hardware, we must find another set of terms that reflect contemporary social interactions, rather than immoral, antiquated ones. Anyone for "pimp" and "ho"? (Again, for the politically correct, this suggestion is also a JOKE!)

In the immortal words of Archie Bunker ...

[Get Behind the Mule]

"... California is the land of fruits and nuts. The fruits are a little nutty, and the nuts are a little fruity!"

Huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't it just as Liberty fries?

quick we better help them

[LittleBigLui]

The "patriotic" version (turning your personal computer into a FREEDOM computer):
General/Soldier

The "Slashdot Tinfoil" version:
RIAAMPAACIAMicroSCOft/we

The "Hegemony" version:
USA/Rest of the world

The "Southern Pride" version:
Klansman/Nigger

The "Equal rights" version:
IDE client #1/IDE client #1

The "I can't hear THAT anymore" version:
How are you/Gentlemen?

The "YetAnotherSlashdotCliche" version:
???/Profit!

The "LOTR" version:
One Ring/Them All

The "disgusting" version:
goatse/cx

This is important! What about Master Degree????k

[zaroastra]

I was going to moderate, but this one is important.
Does that policy mean that there will be no more master degrees in LA?
Poor stanford dudes, all studing so hard to get their masters, and now it will be replaced by something like ... I really have no idea with what, but you see the point

pimp/hoe

[Sindri]

I vote for "pimp/hoe" to replace "master/slave".

Re:pimp/hoe

[Zarf]

I vote for "pimp/hoe" to replace "master/slave".

You get my vote! That's much more descriptive than my idea: "president/intern"

Ban "male" and "female"!

[gilgongo]

I have long been shocked and offended by the use of the terms "male" and "female" in relation to electrical connectors.

The disgusting implication is that these things have genitals, and when they come together they have "sex".

It is an abomination designed by Satan to corrupt young minds to regard everything in terms of lustful conjoinments and to ignore the word of the Lord - who much prefers the terms "master" and "slave."

Re:Ban "male" and "female"!

[Anonymous Coward]

Why stop there? Pipe fittings are also male or female. I don't know if they can have sex, but I have heard one referred to as "that fucking elbow is leaking again."

Re:webmaster - web weaver

[TiggsPanther]

I can see a potential problem with this.
Taken to extremes, it could mean that some places would be purposefully chosing to not create the web-/postmaster addresses for their domain.

And I've got a sneaking suspicion that that goes against the RFCs. And, even if it doesn't, wouldn't that screw with the addresses that people know to try?

Re:Another Relevant Quote [OT]

[Jonah Hex]

Here's one that I've found particularly relevant since the politicians and others in the post 9/11 age turn patriotism into a grab for more power and control.

"Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship ... Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger."

-- Hermann Goering, Nazi leader, at the Nuremberg Trials after World War II

IMHO, the informed opinion is that a terrorist attack on the continental US was inevitable, so the government should have had pretty much everything in place since at least the 70s/80s for both detection/prevention and the event/aftermath. Of course there would be many unforseen issues that may require drastic measures to be taken, but nothing like the mountain of legislation/etc that's been shoved through since 9/11.

I for one do not welcome our new patriotic masters.

Jonah Hex

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[Hittite Creosote]

Do you have a cite for that, or are you just making it up?

So what are they going to call them instead?

[zoeblade]

I propose the much more politically correct terms "dom" and "sub" (actually, that should probably be "domme" and "sub" as computer parts are apparently all female... Motherboards, daughterboards, etc).

Max score

[seva]

Yeah, this is completely off-topic, make my day..

But uh, there are over 100 Score:5 messages, perhaps it's time to make the max score 7 or 10 ;)

NO Master /Slave for IDE in LA

[Anonymous Coward]

So why not simply stop selling hard disks in LA.

Solves that problem and shows them to stop being so f**king pathetic.

Then americans wonder why they have such a bad reputation around the world.

The Women's room...

[KjetilK]

Come to think of it, I managed to go into the women's room at Copenhagen Airport Kastrup once... :-) I had had a really terrible flight, because I had a bad cold, which had filled up all the channels in my head with some goo. For those who haven't experienced this: During landing, the changing pressure for the last 10 minutes or so makes it feel like somebody is jumping on your head and pulling your eyebrows out one hair at a time... IT HURTS!

So, half in coma, I just went into the first bathroom I could find. Nobody else was there when I got in, but a lady came in when I got out. Whoops. Slightly embarrased. But then, I don't think unisex bathrooms would actually hurt anyone. There are parts of the world where unisex saunas are quite common.

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[floydigus]

And rant all you want, but the world is never going back to the default "he".

I randomly choose between he and she each time I need a gender-neutral pronoun - by tossing a coin. Amazingly the coin has come up "heads for he" 3427 times in a row so far. If anyone has an explanation for this, perhaps he could let me know? 3428.

Already happened.

[dark-nl]

People are beginning to call it "mainboard".

Some more suggestions:

[SmackCrackandPot]

For someone who plays multiplayer games a lot, how about:

Commander/Grunt

For someone more cultured, how about:

Lord/Butler
Mistress/Maid

I prefer the terminology....

[mdemeny]

Passive Agressive/Co-dependent

Wall outlets

[coolmos]

This is not a real problem, because it will be solved very soon.

For the people who believe female/male connectors are politically incorrect, power outlets will be issued with male contacts, to compensate for the years of suppression of the male outlet.

Furthermore, to avoid the pin-in-hole thing which could be perceived as 'rape', there will be no mating connectors.

Offenders will be electrocuted (as soon as we can find the power cable with the female contacts)

This has been tested at a small company known as SCO, and they are really, totally, absolutely, disconnected from whatever you can come up with.

It wasn't Lenin's wit

[varjag]

What is clear however is that they seem to be bringing us a sort of fusion McCarthyism, part Lenin (originator of the line 'whoever is not for us is against us')..

The phrase was coined by Jesus Christ.

Yes, I was shocked too when I first encountered it in New Testament. "He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad." Matthew 12:30.

You wouldn't find this particular phrase quoted much, though.

Re:It wasn't Lenin's wit

[WWWWolf]

You wouldn't find this particular phrase quoted much, though.

But misunderstood even more, just like a lot of the Bible. It is certainly very easy to take severely out of context. Jesus is referring to unity in spiritual matters, in the grander scheme of Good versus Evil, God versus Beelzebub. He is saying he cannot possibly be with Beelzebub if he is capable of exorcising his devils - such thing would mean disarray among Beelzebub's ranks. Likewise, he points out, you are either with God or you are with Beelzebub, and since Jesus is with the good guys, people should follow him.

In spiritual matters, Christianity seems rather black and white: There is Good and there is Evil. You're either, but you can't be both. This is what Jesus refers to with his "he that is not with me is against me".

Likewise, and this is important part - he points out it won't do much good or bad to criticise him ("whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him") - he's just here doing miracle stuff and preaching, too bad if you don't believe him. But to go against the Holy Spirit, against the things Jesus talks of, means you're certainly not a good person. ("but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.") There is a certain level of difference between saying "Jesus was not worth listening" and "Everything that is good and holy must go". Former is ignorance and fear, latter is a good example of evil thoughts.

Re:It wasn't Lenin's wit

[varjag]

But misunderstood even more, just like a lot of the Bible.

Well, let's agree that the passage is foggy enough to be misunderstood if no extensive comments are provided. It is very hard to pin down a simple explanation for it which can be understood easily enough by an average attendee (you probably noticed that when you wrote your reply). So preachers tend to avoid it.

Besides, that line was too often misattributed to Lenin (who once said that phrase, but clearly wasn't its originator). That doesn't helps quoting, too.

There is a certain level of difference between saying "Jesus was not worth listening" and "Everything that is good and holy must go".

OK, so if I say "I don't see enough evidence supporting creationism" or "I find God's methods of problem-solving as described in the Old Testament to be higly questionable", which category I fall to?

Re:It wasn't Lenin's wit

[WWWWolf]

Well, let's agree that the passage is foggy enough to be misunderstood if no extensive comments are provided. It is very hard to pin down a simple explanation for it which can be understood easily enough by an average attendee (you probably noticed that when you wrote your reply).

Let's. And I did notice that - It's easy to read what's written, but finding out what was meant is always a difficult task, trying to evaluate possible cultural differences and such.

OK, so if I say "I don't see enough evidence supporting creationism" or "I find God's methods of problem-solving as described in the Old Testament to be higly questionable", which category I fall to?

Good question, for which I don't have an answer. The reason I'm doubting is that the only big problem with creation stories and history books in Bible is that they were written by humans and as such may contain slight inaccuracies, if you catch my drift. So, I'm not sure if your statements criticize God or human-written "fiction" about God.

And as such, are the quotes worth anything? Does God subscribe to the "what is done cannot be undone, and it's useless to debate about it" policy? Is criticism of methods automatically comdemnable? Your comments don't show offense, they show disagreement. What did Jesus mean with "against us" - mere disagreement or direct offense?

And besides, I'm in no position to judge people anyway.

Summary of the whole post: Extensively subject to interpretation, and I'm definitely not a theologist. =)

Re:It wasn't Lenin's wit

[downwa]

God is big enough to let you disagree with him-- Job, and the Psalms, show people who did. Unfortunately, many professed Christians aren't so tolerant.

As for the evidence for creationism and/or the flood, and discussion of God's methods in the O.T., email me if you are interested, as this thread has become off-topic (wdowns-nospam@iglooware-nospam.com, remove dashes and nospam)

How about Submissive/Dominant?

[Colourspace]

He he.

Will the owner of...

[manon]

Will the owner of the website talking about master/slave connections in computers please update his/her website? (note: his/her is not suggested as a replacement)
Please contact the L.A. Department of justice for futher information.

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[prbt]

>Check back in a century and I'd bet you'll see the singular "they" accepted

I must've gone to a very forward-thinking primary school (ages 5-10), as we were taught from the off that 'they' was the singular pronoun. And this was over twenty years ago... However, I have come across some grammarian snobs who baulk whenever I use 'they' in this manner. More fools 'they', eh?

A MSFT Story...

[Ann Elk]

A few years ago, while working at Microsoft, I heard one of the documentation writers complaining about terminology. She objected to the word "shutdown". I can still remember her whiny voice saying "Shutdown sounds like shotgun, and that's violent".

Kiss my ass.

There are certainly some *nix terms that LA County may find offensive. "Zombies", and "aborting processes", and of course my favorite "daemons flushing dead children down pipes".

Zero: a very special number

[ces]

I really don't know why zero feels so put upon.

Zero as a number and a concept literally revolutionized mathmatics and philiosiphy.

Without zero algebra, calculus, statitistics, accounting, physics, and even computers aren't possible or are much more difficult.

Heck zero is probably even more important to mathmatics and all fields of endevour using math than other "magic" numbers such as pi, e, 1, and -1.

All Races have been Slaves!

[thirdofnine]

What is the problem with master/slave. All races have been in slavery at some time or another.

The allies in WW2 were slaves of Japan and Germany, forced to build railways, weapons, and other things for nothing, often dieing.

These slaves comprised of all sorts of races, white, black, jews, christians, all sorts.

Then there was also black slavery that also happened. I am sure that there are many more examples.

My point is, how is this offensive. It is stupid.

Third of Nine

The Politically Correct Dictionary of Computing

[EmagGeek]

"Master/Slave Devices" become "Partner Devices having ID Numbers 1 and 2"

"Shut down" becomes "Put into a dormant state"

"Zombie Process" becomes "Perpetual Process"

"Kill the Process," "Terminate the process," and "Abort the process" all become "Cause the process to end, regardless of current state."

Re:The Politically Correct Dictionary of Computing

[Zarf]

"Master/Slave Devices" become "Partner Devices having ID Numbers 1 and 2"

Some ideas I had for replacing "Master/Slave":

• pilot/co-pilot
• pilot/stewardess
• president/intern

Agreed.

[Aldric]

I can't say I really care what colour another person's skin is.

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[Alan Partridge]

Absolute nonsense, of course but your spelling was SO bad that I thought I'd do you a favour and correct it for you:-

Act of PARLIAMENT (1890? about then) made it illegal to use "they" for singular. When the gender is not known you should always give the BENEFIT of the DOUBT and assume male. Not exactly those words, but you get the spirit, and can look it up if you can STOMACH more of it.

You are clearly a prince among wordsmiths!

Multi-spectrum crayons

[PurpleWizard]

And soon to hit the market are the sanitized "multi-spectrum crayon hue alteration set"

Ahead of my time...

[catfood]

Around 1991 I joined a point-of-sale software company just as we were starting to develop and sell LAN-compatible setups. Our "master/slave" nomenclature set off bad vibes for me, and "server/client" wasn't technically accurate in our context.

Thus my internal documentation talked about "lead" and "non-lead" registers, as do a few user-visible references. I didn't force anyone, but the terms caught on somehow and to my knowledge the successor company still says "lead" and "non-lead."

Is it "political correctness" if you start using an expression and it catches on?

Re:Ahead of my time...

[vidarh]

No, if you use terms that would confuse everyone else in the industry it's just plain old stupidity.

Re:Ahead of my time...

[catfood]

...except that we were busy establishing the industry. It wasn't a revolutionary leap, but neither "master/slave" nor anything else had really taken a foothold. The specific usage of "lead register" (as opposed to master) indicated the one that was first to open in the morning, last to close in the evening, ran most of the reports, etc. That wasn't necessarily the same as the server, even in a peer-to-peer network where some other register might have acted as a server, and it didn't preclude the possibility of a host-based multi-register system with no server at all.

When there's no existing nomenclature, at least none standardized, I think you get to pick your own.

Does this mean Mr. Slave is going away?

[trezor]

As we all know for one hundred percent, absolutely, totally, no doubt, never bound to fail, guaranteed(tm) certain, removing a word makes it all go away.

So if we remove the word slave from the english language, all slavery will be abolished wherever english is the only present language. This is ofcourse a scientific fact, or I wouldn't be claiming it.

So don't give me any trolls about how this isn't so. What I am wondering about you see, is Mr. Garrison's assistant, Mr. Slave now going to be removed from Southpark? (I'm not all up to date :)

Re:Does this mean Mr. Slave is going away?

[gfxguy]

More importantly, when you abolish the word you change history so that it never happened. So if we don't read Huck Finn because he used the word "nigger", then it'll be just like people never used that word! Cool, huh?

If we pretend that bad stuff never happened, maybe it'll be true!

Re:Does this mean Mr. Slave is going away?

[gfxguy]

I forgot to add that by doing this we'll be enforcing one's [see, I can learn from slashdot!] constitutionally protected right to not be offended. Let's see, that was the... uh... which ammendment was that?

What about the Governor of California ?

[Anonymous Coward]

AFAIK, the surname of the Governor of California translates to "black nigger". Should the LA County ask him to change his name as it is politically incorrect ?

Re:What about the Governor of California ?

[porges]

It's Schwarzen egger; which is "blackened [as by the sun] plowman".

Tolerance & Diversity

[JaredOfEuropa]

What doesn't surprise me at all is that someone found an (arbitrary) word to be offended with. Happens all the time. What does surprise me (or hmm, maybe it doesn't) is that this was picked up by some committee and acted upon officially. Where does it end?

We (here in Holland) live in a very diverse culture, with lots of different people crammed into a tiny country. Anything you do or say is bound to offend someone else. Politicians here preach tolerance until we're sick of it... they think being tolerant of other cultures means to adapt yourself so that you will not offend members of those other cultures. Not only is that impossible, but one cannot help but notice that this requirement to adapt is somehow never applied to the minority groups. Ie. I cannot say anything offensive about Muslems, Jews or other minorites (just an example!), but if they do or say something that offends me, I'm called racist or intolerant if I comment on it, and I will be sternly reminded that I 'should respect their culture'.

Tolerance is a two-way street, people. On the one hand, you should be aware of the fact that some things you find normal are going to piss other people off, and you try (within reason) to minimise that. But on the other hand, you (and especially the minorities and politicians) should accept that other groups will do things that'll offend you. Rather than expecting everyone to change to suit your world view, accept that you'll be offended from time to time and do not make a big deal out of it.

Re:Tolerance & Diversity

[InfoVore]

Tolerance is a two-way street, people.

I think I just found a bumper sticker for my car.

Thanks!

Re:Tolerance & Diversity

[cloudmaster]

logic plus politics is similar to matter plus antimatter. What you say makes sense, and therefore would therefore be impossible for a politician to actually think. Well, lower-level politicians sometimes have some logic, but the amount of logical thining one is capable of is inversely proportional to the amount of political power one can gain.

Re:Tolerance & Diversity

[dublin]

There is nothing so intolerant as "tolerance"...

Re:Tolerance & Diversity

[Anonymous Coward]

the amount of logical thining one is capable of is inversely proportional to the amount of political power one can gain

that remainds me of someone whos name start with bu and ends in sh...

Priorities

[zoeblade]

When people of the same sex can marry each other, transsexuals can marry anyone (at the moment they can't marry anyone at all) and intersexed babies don't have their genitals mutilated at birth (or their parents told to lie to them about their condition), then we can talk about wording.

Best solution yet.

[Anonymous Coward]

Replace them with a gender neutral whip cracker and a gender neutral tied up stick figure.

You just pick according to your dominance in your relationships, problem solved ;-p

-- vranash

Every VAR in the area selling Hard Drives will...

[Zarf]

run around with a label maker and put the words "pilot" and "co-pilot" on the back of the drives to cover the "master/slave" jumper settings. Interns will have label makers printing out "pilot" or "co-pilot" (one intern assigned to each) and stick them into the manuals over the words "master" and "slave" ... at least the VARs that sell to Gov't agencies might do this if the sale was threatened just before closing.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[tschodt]

"I believe it is unethical to kill and eat defenseless little plants which are rooted in the ground and are unable to put up any fight at all against human harvestors. Animals at least have a chance to escape or mount a defense."

What's more, vegetarians cruelly deprive the poor defenseless animals of their natural food. I'd imagine death by starvation is not very nice.

Re:This is important! What about Master Degree????

[Zarf]

You know... if you have a doctorate you get called "doctor" if you have a Master's degree... do you get called "Master" ??? I propose that we replace the "Master/Slave" names with either "president/intern" or "pimp/ho" ... Master's Degrees would then become either Presidential Degrees ... or Pimp Degrees. People who had Master's degrees would be refered to as "Pimps"

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[GenSolo]

'Thou' was the informal form of 'you', not the singular form.

As stupid as this is...

[NanoGator]

... I wouldn't want to fight to keep the Master/Slave term. I'd be an instant bad guy even though my intentions would simply be to prevent this politcal correctness from going out of control. It's a shame that society is so quick to judge once intentions.

Hey! How about...

[Craig3010]

"Mistress/Slave"?

Good on yer!

[^DA]

Only in USA!

Re:Good on yer!

[blueforce]

No... only in California.

What do you expect

[c0rruptc0d3]

We are talking about an area in California afterall. These are the same numbskulls who put the Terminator in office as governor, had a class action lawsuit aginst Oreo cookies for the type of fat they contain, and eat bean sprouts. I mean come on they have some of the stupidest laws ever put to paper and this surprises you.

Suggestion for master/slave name change

[capn_buzzcut]

OK, so someone has a problem with master/slave references? Forgive me if this has already been suggested, but why not just change the terms to white for master and black for slave? They're only colors, how could that possibly be offensive?

Re:Suggestion for master/slave name change

[Anonymous Coward]

Use "Watto" and "Anakin" instead.

Simple Solution

[c0rruptc0d3]

The hard drive and computer industry needs to simply refuse to follow this nonsense. And if your in the "computer field" own a company have a say in what jobs are taken or not etc simply refuse to do any work or accept any contracts with LA county. Eventually those nonconforming politically correct nimbrods will have to get over their stupidity and oblige by the standards ever other person and place uses. I also suggest if possible moving your business out of LA county to protest this move.

Re:Simple Solution

[fgb]

I have a better solution. Simply tell them that you would have to make special custom runs for their equipment and it will triple their costs. That will get their attention. Then again, it's public money they're spending so they probably don't care.

Referencing a reference

[ampersandTHORN]

RED DWARF - BETTER THAN LIFE

CAT: It's Miranda, my girlfriend.

As she comes out of the water we see the top half of her is a fish, the bottom half is a woman.

HOLLY: Somehow I'd imagined she'd be a woman on top and a fish on the bottom.
CAT: No! That's the stupid way round. (He sticks out his tongue briefly and grins and waves.)

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[calethix]

"You will put out meat pizzas, right? I am a carnivore and I believe it is unethical to kill and eat defenseless little plants which are rooted in the ground"

So you like crustless pizzas with no tomato sauce? ;)

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[shaitand]

umm MOST of the world still uses the generic he/him/mankind terms. A few political elitists use improper english. A teacher is doing a disservice if they fail to mark off for things like s/he because they are incorrect grammar.

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[MisterSquid]

... licence ...

And I must inform you that yours is doubly revoked.

Singular They - not illegal :))

[waterbear]

Act of parliment (1890? about then) made it illegal to use "they" for singular

It's wonderful to see how these things get garbled. There was an Interpretation Act around 1889. One of the things it did was to make it officially unimportant whether a singular or plural word is used in (UK) legislation. The aim there was to get rid of one kind of lawyers' delight (like arguing that if a law makes it illegal to steal horses, then could it still be legal to steal only one horse?). It had nothing to do with making the use of singulars or plurals illegal!!

Re:Singular They - not illegal :))

[DavidTC]

What kind of idiot would outlaw stealing 'horses'? And who would be surprised when, quite rightly, people realize they can steal a single horse?

Re:Singular They - not illegal :))

[waterbear]

What kind of idiot would outlaw stealing 'horses'? And who would be surprised when, quite rightly, people realize they can steal a single horse?

Well the topic is about politically correct usages, and the point came up about singulars and plurals. It was only a (shortened) example. Yes, there was a corresponding example, a very old act prescribing a death-penalty for horse-stealing, and yes, they did say 'horses', and yes, people did spend time arguing whether that meant death for stealing only one horse (solution: another act to deal with the case of the singular horse!!).

All that came from a time well before legislatures were fully packed with lawyers. I expect they would be more careful now. But all in all, do you mean to say that you think having all the lawyers is an improvement? :)

This Just In!

[Anonymous Coward]

The terms "master" and "slave" have just been expunged from all widely used English dictionaries.

Jar Jar to the Rescue!

[Anonymous Coward]

Companies can just use more kid friendly terms like "massa" and "wakoowakoo" instead.

As long as

[BCW2]

everyone remembers that Politicly Correct = morally and historicly bankrupt.

Califaggot land of the fruit and home of the flake.

If anybody has a problem

[Snaller]

with the term master/slave he should see a psychiatrist at once!

The Motorola VME standard...

[AllynM]

...also uses the master/slave relationship when referencing data transfers between system cards in the system. It is a very widely used standard in various control systems (even the Navy uses it). The Navy teaches these systems in their schools (and uses "master" / "slave", btw). There are literally hundreds of books currently published about this specification. Whats next - removal of the 'offending' references from their libraries? These jokers should really do even a tiny bit of research as to the results of such a change, PRIOR to making that change.I see this as one of those laws that is so rediculous, it is ignored by everyone, further taking away from the image of the legal system.

"Slave"

[pommiekiwifruit]

IIRC Whenever someone says the word "Chou" (Italian for slave) when greeting someone else, without understanding its history.

Perhaps that has even already happened?

Re:"Slave"

[GreyPoopon]

IIRC Whenever someone says the word "Chou" (Italian for slave)...

My Italian really stinks, but I think the word for slave is "schiavo", and the word for "hello" is "ciao." Maybe similar derivations, but I don't think they are the same thing. Any Italians out there available to give the real story?

Re:"Slave"

[pommiekiwifruit]

Oops, my spelling sucked. Of course in Italian/English it is spelled ciao (and in german/portuguese/brazilian tchau)

American Heritage

Now if it were new york...

[shaitand]

They'd be complaining about the term RAID, after all it offends the cockroaches

This happened at my employer

[Anonymous Coward]

One of our programmers created a design document for a master/slave methodology to allow parallel processing for certain tasks where sequential processing was taking much too long. The architectural review board changed the name to master/worker.

Does that mean that they view workers as slaves? ;)

Say no to

[pommiekiwifruit]

Macarthy/Lenin.

Say yes to Macartney/Lennon.

Consider the source

[The Tyro]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to be a bit skeptical about this one.

In reference to your link at Amazon; his book is bundled with Michael' Moore's book about "stupid white men..." People who bought his book also bought books by Gore Vidal, Al Franken, and other blatant political hacks and operatives. He also writes for the Guardian, far from what most would consider a non-partisan news source, and is a favorite of the democratic underground.

I think the odds that you'll get a sound, unspun, unstilted analysis of ANY political issue from this guy are pretty slim.

I do live in FL, BTW, and I find it funny that so much is made of the republican's election machinations in Florida, and absolutely nothing is said about the democrats' own lawyer tricks during the 2000 election.

Sorry, but it's hardly persuasive to make a blanket accusation about all republicans being racists and police conspiracies to keep the black man down, and then back it up by citing a guy like Mr. Palast.

Re:Consider the source

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't judge a book by it's cover?

How about "Don't judge a book by it's company"

For one thing Mr. Palast is English so doesn't have a great personal vendetta against the "Republicans (Boo Hiss)". Visit his website, it has a chapter or two from the book (with sources). THEN judge it. (www.gregpalast.com I think)

Re:Consider the source

[Zeinfeld]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to be a bit skeptical about this one. In reference to your link at Amazon; his book is bundled with Michael' Moore's book about "stupid white men..." People who bought his book also bought books by Gore Vidal, Al Franken, and other blatant political hacks and operatives.

Ah ad hominem attack at its finest. No need to dispute the facts when you can attack the man!

BTW what do you claim to be inaccurate in Al Franken's book? Do you believe that O'Reilly really did win a Peabody?

I won't defend Michael Moore, he is the Rush Limbaugh/Ann Coulter of the left. But arguing against someone on the grounds their book was bought by the same person as bought a book that has been in the top 10 for several months...

Ann Coulter is a die-hard defender of Joe McCarthy, calls the Democrats who opposed him (but not the numerous Republicans) guilty of "Treason". But I would not attack Hannity or O'Reilly simply because people who buy their books buy Coulter's.

Re:Consider the source

[IronTomFlint]

Ah ad hominem attack at its finest.

Minor nit: This was not an ad hominem. It was clearly guilt by association: "People who buy Michael Moore's book also bought this guy's book, so obviously this guy's book is as bad as Michael Moore's book."

An ad hominem would be a direct attack on the man himself: "This guy is a lowlife leftwing scumbag who wouldn't know the truth if it hit him between the eyes, so obviously his book is worthless."

In examining The Tyro's post, I don't see anything that I'd call an ad hominem. But clearly he did attack Moore and the others ("blatant political hacks and operatives"), and he did apologize for *that* ad hominem; and he did resort to guilt by association.

Do you believe that O'Reilly really did win a Peabody?

Citing one instance of a supposedly correct fact (I'm not questioning it; I'm not in a position to do so) doesn't prove that Franken's book is generally reliable.

Ann Coulter is a die-hard defender of Joe McCarthy...

So out of one side of your mouth you complain about The Tyro's use of the ad hominem, and out of the other you resort to it yourself?

Hmmm.

Heres some more

[t_allardyce]

GIMP
Thin client
FAT
Raster
Brute force
a blind system

and my favourite:
finger me for my number

Re:Heres some more

[vidarh]

Just imagine how they'd reacted to the Amiga chipsets... Of course some would probably think it was a victory for women that the chips were mostly named after women (Denise, Paula, Agnus, Lisa, perhaps more - I stopped following what happened to them around '91 or so), but considering the engineers were male it must of course be suspect. But imagine the response to poor Agnus, who in successive versions were called fat, super fat and obese....

Bumper Sticker...

[Anonymous Coward]

Saw this on a Bumper Sticker:

' If we not supposed to eat animals,
then why are they made out of MEAT? '

Re:Bumper Sticker...

[princewally]

I have that bumper sticker on my car.

Re:Bumper Sticker...

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey buddy, eat MY meat

Re:Bumper Sticker...

[17028]

If we are not supposed to eat humans, then why are they made out of meat? Just wondering...

Re:Bumper Sticker...

[Mr. Slippery]

'If we not supposed to eat animals, then why are they made out of MEAT? '

Dude, you're made out of meat.

Anonymous Coward: it's what's for dinner.

Re:Bumper Sticker...

[muckdog]

Obvious retort... "Yes I am made out of meat, why don't you just eat me!"

Re:Bumper Sticker...

[Valdrax]

I believe that quote originates from John Cleese of Monty Python fame.

Re:Bumper Sticker...

[Mr. Slippery]

Obvious retort..."Yes I am made out of meat, why don't you just eat me!"

Be careful how you say that...if someone mutters "With fava beans, and a nice chianti"...

Re:Bumper Sticker...

[LittleBigLui]

wait... we are NOT??!?

Re:Bumper Sticker...

[reverius]

Yeah, we are... there really isn't any difference between the meat in any "animal" and human meat. Humans are animals as well.

Humans (of course!) can't digest human meat... not because it's not meat, but because it's cannibalism. Our stomachs can't process our own meat. However, other species of animal can eat human just fine, like we eat them. Shouldn't they?

Quite frankly those humans eating other species of animal without regard for the ethical considerations are just as bad as a pack of wolves killing and eating a man.

Re:Bumper Sticker...

[TechnoSpud_001010000]

And I suppose that next you'll argue the ethical problems concerning the eating of vegetables and fruits? Just because animals can move around and have brains doesn't mean they give a damn if a hominid eats one of them. Yes, we could be deemed as animals ourselves, but after millions of years of evolution, WE'RE the ones on top of the food chain. And don't try that "species are endangered because we eat them" argument, because the only things keeping populations of animals in check are as thus: 1. Predators (including us) 2. Careless fucks who don't give a damn about nature who go around slaughtering animals by the hundreds of thousands for MASS CONSUMPTION (i.e. McDonald's) 3. This insane fasco-capitalist society we live in and force down other nation's throats which threatens nature with every step of "progress". So you see, you uninformed fool, that as long as we followed the unwritten law of nature and ate only what we truly needed to be satisfied (physically, not gorging ourselves to feel better psychologically), we could end (or drastically reduce) the problem of senseless slaughter of food animals (pigs, cows, chickens, seafood, fish, etc.) AND the problem of obesity in humans. Killing animals for food is not senseless on its own, since we as humans have been doing that ever since we roamed the plains as half-apes scraping up leftover carcass-meat, then later on hunting animals for food, to supplement their omnivorous diet. We're designed to eat meat, and so we do. The problem is that we eat TOO MUCH of it. A large percentage of us Americans are gluttons, and we've ignored nature in favor of fast food and instant gratification of their insatiable hunger. Remember that the next time you make an argument against eating meat. Remember, cows, pigs, turkeys, fish, etc. DON'T GIVE A GOOD GOD DAMN IF THEY ARE KILLED AND EATEN AS FOOD! They are biologically incapable of processing emotions. The whole "animals-for-meat ethics" is totally illogical and is an ill-conceived idea. Bottom line. - Please don't brainfart in my direction. Thank you very much.

Re:Bumper Sticker...

[Hognoxious]

Humans (of course!) can't digest human meat... not because it's not meat, but because it's cannibalism. Our stomachs can't process our own meat.

Total and/or utter bullshit.

Re:Bumper Sticker...

[swmccracken]

This is /.

A typical human here is mostly fat and not much lean tender muscle..

Seriously

[Fr05t]

I feel that all should be ashamed of the actions humans where people were treated as property. I'm also for the use of non-gender/race specific names. This personally would make more sense to me if the difference between master and slave was denoted with a different color or shap but it isn't..

When people become offended by something simply because they do not understand it has another name. Ignorance - this leads to racism, homophobia, sexism, and war, to name a few. By promoting ingornace at the P.C. level we only take a step back in the progress against hate we have made.

I'm not saying this will cause chaos in the streets and lead to hate crimes against harddrives. Just that this kind of behavour benefits none, and the people who are offended by their own ignorance will eventually be offended by chalk boards, cars, clouds, thumb tacks, and dominos, etc.. Before someone takes action against something which offends them they should at least try to understand it, and it is the responsibilty of the Government to do this as well before trying to force it on the population.

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[Anonymous Coward]

You can't even use quoth right and want lecture others?

Hint: You blockquote him. He just posted.

Redefining Tolerance

[anomaly]

The problem you describe is that we no longer mean tolerance when we use the word tolerance.

If I merely tolerate your differences, I recognize that you are different and take no action to change you. In "classic" tolerance, I don't have to agree with you, encourage you.... in fact, I don't even have to like you.

In the "new" tolerance, I am not only required socially to tolerate you, but now I must celebrate the things that you value. If I refuse to *celebrate* your viewpoint, I am labeled as "intolerant" - one of the greatest condemnations within modern culture.

This new definition is no longer tolerance, it is the borg of social interaction. "I am {minority view} of BORG. You will be assimilated."

Talk about thought police! We are no longer permitted to think or discuss that which might be upsetting to someone somewhere.

This cuts both ways, and while it may seem to further minority viewpoints in the short term, in the long term we all pay because we are not afforded the protection and richness that is freedom of expression. Over time it becomes unacceptable to express ANY views.

This is, in my opinion, far worse than the "old world order" where tolerance meant that I allowed you to have whatever kooky issue or belief or practice you want, and you allow me the same. (Within societal boundaries of course. Other than Sparta, I'm not aware of cultures where Mr. Jackson's alleged behavior is celebrated.)

Respectfully,
Anomaly

PS - God loves you and longs for relationship with you. If you want to know more, please email me.

That's unnecessarily verbose... try

[Haeleth]

Ingsoc.

They dont want people to Understand the FTAA

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess it is now illegal to read the following web site in LA?
http://www.wage-slave.org

In a world where the combined pay of 35 health care CEOs is well over $ 600,000,000 but Nurses are in short supply and underpaid ...

and the Bush Administration wants to eliminate over time pay,

And the FTAA will make the job losses of NAFTA seem like a blip on the radar...

It seems what they really want to hide is the truth -
MASTER / SLAVE is the only way to see the New World Order!

How about Pitcher/Catcher?

[Libertarian_Geek]

How about Pitcher/Catcher? I think your Catcher cylinder has gone out. That's why your clutch won't engage. On second thought, nah.

No Big Deal

[Anonymous Coward]

Just call 'em 'white boy' and 'nigga' instead.

And where are the feminists with 'abort'? Or will women start to 'force quit' their pregnancies?

Motherboard? - offending orphans?

[Anonymous Coward]

But "Motherboard" could offend the poor orphans who never had a mother. Obviously some of these orphans would be unwhite! and some may even be doubleplusunwhite! OMG! quick, lets change the term motherboard to be "genderneutralboard", i think you will agree this fits nicely into the following phrases.

1) First you need to flash the BIOS on the genderneutralboard.

2) Ahh yes there is a jumper on the genderneutralboard for that

3) The usb ports have become detached from the genderneutralboard

See easy, smooth flowing, Come on LA its up to you to fix this! People of no particular race colour creed or geographical location are being offended as we speak!

(We've always been at war eith eurasia, eastasia are out friends and have always been our friends)

seems that there are some doubleplusunclever people making up laws, is there really nothing better that they could be doing in this time of war?

Ban Britney!

[FoogyFoo]

Does this mean they'll stop playing Britney Spears in LA?

...I'm a *bleep* for you...

Good Instincts

[Anonymous Coward]

Those who feel this is too silly to be true have good instincts.

Odds are there's a company waiting in the wings to transform all the documents and image files, and that this is just a scam for some insiders to make a fortune.

ermm

[Anonymous Coward]

Many of those in North-Ireland may disagree.

Re:ermm

[FrostedWheat]

Many of those in North-Ireland may disagree.

That England is one part of the UK, or that I need breakfast?

No...

[The Tyro]

your post was modded off-topic and flamebait, and it clearly qualifies as both.

Judging by your .sig and some of your previous posts, you have a left-wing viewpoint on some political issues. That's fine... free speech and all that... but it shouldn't surprise you that some slashdotters disagree with your cheap political shot at the Republican party as only growing because they are recruiting racists, homophobes, etc.

This is not the website you were looking for... Perhaps this is what you had in mind...

Re:No...

[Zeinfeld]

Judging by your .sig and some of your previous posts, you have a left-wing viewpoint on some political issues. That's fine... free speech and all that... but it shouldn't surprise you that some slashdotters disagree with your cheap political shot at the Republican party as only growing because they are recruiting racists, homophobes, etc.

That part does not surprise me, but the idea of sending out emails to ask supporters with mod points on slashdot to mode someone down because they are considered a threat... Yep it happens, my GOP friends forward me some of the notes.

The point is not that the entire Republican party is full of bigotts and homophobes, but there is a history of pandering, a history which I think the party will soon come to regret.

So we have Bush going Bob Jones University but refusing to meet with the Log Cabin Republicans (the main gay group). That is a pretty wierd set of priorities, willing to endorse a virulently anti-Catholic organization that at the time prohibited inter-racial dating but not willing to even meet with gay supporters? The point is that these antics are intended to send a message to particular groups, the candidate is anti-Catholic, anti-Black, anti-Gay. The point is not lost on Catholics, Blacks and Gays.

I would have thought that the GOP would have learnt from Pete Wilson's attempt at anti-imigrant populism. Prop 197 is the reason that no Republican can get elected to statewide office in a regular election in the state of Ronald Reagan. Lets take a large minority that is growing fast and will soon become the majority and target them as scapegoats...

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[Anonymous Coward]

Except that "licence" is an accepted variant and the standard spelling in certain British styles. I love it when people "correct" others' usage wrongly.

"All that is necessary for evil to succeed ...

[Presence1]

... is that good men do nothing." -- Edmund Burke

Where were the so called "leaders" in this county organization to stand up to this offended idiot?

To state the obvious, the right response is to educate the ignorant person that this is correct technical usage, having nothing to do with racism, and that moreover, slavery has nothing to do with race, and tell them to get back to work. So why was this not obvious to any of the elected county offciials? Or to the saps that elected them?

Re:"All that is necessary for evil to succeed ...

[Hoi Polloi]

We need tort law reform in this country first so people can't use lawsuits as intimidation tactics or as a constant threat. Loser pays should be the rule here (as in England I believe), more restrictions on what constitutes "damage", and caps on payouts need to be tighter and more widespread. My experience with local government has been they are constantly paranoid of being sued and having their tight budgets ruined by premium increases or uncovered liabilities. A lot of what looks like stupidity or weakness is due to selfdefense against a rotten civil suit system.

What a maroon!

[Anonymous Coward]

Obviously the individual who pushed this has no knowledge of the history of African nation-states. See http://www.dse.de/za/lis/ci/slavetrad.htm, for example.

Random Replies

[Grail]

The "misunderstanding" of the master/slave terminology is entirely the fault of the bureacracy at LA county.

Master/slave has been used to describe clocks and oscillators since before timezones were invented.

Are we to stop using the term "Head Master" to describe the person (male or female or whatever gender they identify themselves as) responsible for guiding the curriculum and discipline of a school? The term "Master" implies more knowledge and control than, say, "Shepherd" - I want my children to be taught, not herded.

Changing the term "master" and "slave" on hard disk drives is relatively easy to do, as long as the buyer is willing to pay for custom labelling and rewritten documentation. I'm sure the state would welcome spending twice as much money on their IT purchases, since they are obviously rolling in the surplus from not spending money on power or firefighting equipment.

Though I think the money would be better spend on providing certain county staff with a few history books dealing with slavery through the course of human history (my favourite slave stories come from the books of the Old Testament of the Christian Bible), as well as some technological history, especially dealing with timekeeping.

And perhaps a poster should be made up of the dictionary definitions of "master", including such choice phrases as, "highly skilled or proficient", "directs the work of another" (which is the sense used in clocks, as is the case in master/slave on the ATA bus). Perhaps for "slave" they could include, "a machine or component controlled by another machine or component".

I would avoid using definitions from the Merriam-Webster dictionary, since they are all tainted by the typical American white/male bias - implying that a "Master" is always a male, which is poppycock.

Rather than refusing to use these terms, the county should probably turn its efforts to mastering its native language. Or end up a slave to political busy work and filibustering.

Re:Random Replies

[turg]

The "misunderstanding" of the master/slave terminology is entirely the fault of the bureacracy at LA county.

What do you mean by the fault of the bureaucracy? A misunderstanding is the "fault" of a person or persons -- perhaps the bureaucracy hasn't responded correctly to the misunderstanding.

Are we to stop using the term "Head Master" to describe the person (male or female or whatever gender they identify themselves as) responsible for guiding the curriculum and discipline of a school?

If the school will lose students over it, yes. There are many things worth fighting for, worth losing money/clients/students/etc. for. This isn't one of them for me. If the school believes there's a principle here that's worth losing students over, then they should stand up for that principle. If the parents can't find a school that meets their requirements, then the parents will have to make some adjustments to their requirements. If the parents want their students to be taught only in classrooms that are painted purple they are free to request this and the schools are free to say "we can't do that." The parents are free to go to another place that meets their requirements. That's not unreasonable, even if the requirements are frivolous. Unreasonable would be continuing to insist that schools meet their frivolous requirements after discovering that none are currently able to. (This might not be unreasonable if the requirements are not frivoulous. I guess I don't see the frivolity of the requirement being an issue until it has been determined that no vendor is able to comply)

You have fine logical arguments that make sense to me. However, I don't think that people's sense of offense usually comes from a place of logic (in any case, logical arguments rarely help). Emotions are generally involuntary responses based on a person's past experience. While we don't want to comprimise our principles or product quality etc. in response to the arbitrary things that might cause people offence, if there is a way to accomodate them that doesn't hurt us then we should accomodate them. How much it hurts us depends on things you mention like how much it costs the taxpayers. AFAICT this is yet to be determined.

Re:Random Replies

[Grail]

What do you mean by the fault of the bureaucracy?

The fact that the initial complaint got as far as it has, is painful evidence that the bureacracy has no means of controlling its own process. There must have been at least three or four levels at which some single member of the bureacracy had the opportunity to say, "this is a frivolous complaint - it will cost us more social standing to pursue this claim that to quell it!"

Or perhaps the misunderstanding was amplified by a bureacracy composed of ill-educated WASPs who were unable or unwilling to look past the complaint to see the deeper issues behind it, or the dire consequences of allowing it to be considered as more than a joke. Perhaps the county is simply so financially stretchered that all they have left to do is legislate - there being no money left to act.

Re:Using libraries is cheating :)

[Anonymous Coward]

six pounds sixty-six pence = 4 large cans strong cider, 3 cans lager (Stella), 1 local newspaper.
The woman at the checkout seriously tried to convince me to buy something else; I said I wasn't bothered but she wouldn't let it lie. In the end I said "If I get run down outside the shop, it's MY fault, OK??" and she let me go.

I'm pretty sure this is the first time in my 40 years that I've had this amount. I wonder what the probability calculations would show?

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[Haeleth]

You're right that "boxen" is an innovation, but it's limited to geeky circles. Most non-standard nominal inflections (foot/feet, sheep/sheep, ox/oxen, child/children, etc.) are fossils, and the general tendency is to normalisation (cf. modern cow/cows, archaic cow/kine).

Sexist!

[Anonymous Coward]

You called her "honeybunch"!
You sexist!

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[Anonymous Coward]

"Nor, IMHO, should it. Language evolves and no language does it better than English."

Yeah, it evolves all right. Just how the noun "jewelry" will be totally replaced by "bling" in the near future followed by "blingin'" for the concept of "being wealthy".

what the?

[Anonymous Coward]

I *use* esperanto, you unsensitive clod!

Re:what the?

[ErixTr]

I *use* esperanto, you unsensitive clod!

Yes, I can see that.

wait till...

[Soothh]

wait till that pittiful bastard learns that it was the black kings in africa that sold the black into american slavery. (research it yourself if you have any doubts, i did) but who is the bad guy? Mark this as a troll if you want, and show your liberal media stripes.

Banned?

[Syberghost]

Ok, I looked all through that article, and I don't see any evidence whatsoever that it was banned.

I realize you guys are in a hurry to get your submissions in before somebody else submits them, and I sympathize, but READ THE DAMN ARTICLE BEFORE YOU SUBMIT.

Womyn

[Anonymous Coward]

This reminds me of college, when our Student Association ruled that any references to women in written SA documents had to be spelled "womyn", because the tradiional spelling "woman" made the female dependent on the male.

New Term

[t0ny]

All the new drives sold to LA County will now be labeled as "Cable Select"

Gack.

[Anonymous Coward]

That was supposed to be anonymous.
Sorry.

Re:Gack.

[Anonymous Coward]

You fail it. Should have said nothing.

instead...

[CAIMLAS]

Instead, they want it replaced with, "Politician" and "Consumer", to be more demographically representative.

Circumcision...

[Anonymous Coward]

Your sig is kind of retarded. Circumcision has nothing to do with savagery versus non-savagery, you dolt. Most of the world doesn't circumcise. Would you call the French, Germans, and all of Europe savages? Or China? Or Africa? Or Japan? If so you have a big problem with our American ego...

Re:Circumcision...

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe he's from Israel. Oho, never thought of that, did you?

And yes, I would call all of those people savages, especially the French. Have you ever seen a bathroom in France? Absolutely savage.

Re:Circumcision...

[Anonymous Coward]

Would you call the French, Germans, and all of Europe savages?

Of course. I wasn't aware that was in doubt!

Re:Circumcision...

[Anonymous Coward]

I have been in French washrroms. Some are great. Others -uh- aren't. Yet, I'd much rather use those "aren't" ones than the one I saw in a Maryland McDonalds I was in a few years back. Jesus fucking Christ! Dried shit all over the toilet, the walls and the stall door. Every step I took, I had to pry my shoes off the piss-sticky floor. Pubic hair fucking everywhere. No soap. No towels. What I thought was a dripping faucet was actually the tap left on full. The other one wasn't even connected. Only one light was working and there was no fan.

It was so disgusting, I threw up on the floor. I was feeling bad about it, but then I realized, other than the fresh smell, it didn't actually make the place more disgusting than it already was. Needless to say, I forgot about eating there and just got the hell out.

And circumcision is nothing more than genital mutilation! Just the word gives me the chills. Having sharp objects even near one's chunk is wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong!

Re:Circumcision...

[Anonymous Coward]

Would you call the French, Germans, and all of Europe savages? Or China? Or Africa? Or Japan?

Yes. You suck, unless you were born in Lodi NJ in a house with an American Flag on the door.

If so you have a big problem with (y)our American ego...

Nope. No problems here at all. America rules. Natch!

Re:Circumcision...

[BigBlockMopar]

Your sig is kind of retarded. Circumcision has nothing to do with savagery versus non-savagery, you dolt.

I see.

Most of the world doesn't circumcise.

This is true.

And most of the world doesn't have potable water or electricity either. What's your point?

Would you call the French, Germans, and all of Europe savages?

France and Germany aren't part of Europe? That's news to me, especially since I hold EU citizenship. By birth, in fact.

And, actually, I would call France and Germany savages. They harbor Roman Polanski. They passively protect potentially-dangerous dictators despite all evidence and their own very recent foray into tyranny still being in living memory. And they censor free speech, as unsavory as discussion of their own neo-Nazi groups might be.

Or China? Or Africa? Or Japan?

China and Africa don't count; as a whole, they still haven't figured out things like potable water and washing tables at the local market.

Japan? They build paper houses with stone roofs. In an earthquake zone, no less. Between that, the consumption of raw fish, the Hello Kitty obsession and the oh-so-practical street addressing systems they use in every large Japanese city I've visited, I'm rather loathe to use them as role models of practicality.

If so you have a big problem with our American ego...

I assume you meant "your American ego". I'm not American, actually. I hold EU (British) and Canadian citizenships.

Getting to your apparent problem: I had myself circumcised as an adult. You see, there's a neat thing about foreskin: it's normal and natural. But wearing pants isn't normal or natural, and society seems to prefer it when I don't parade around naked. So, I did a little research (scientific journals only, avoiding all the looney-tunes no-circ wackos who blame their latent homosexuality and male-pattern baldness on their circumcisions) and the only intelligent argument that I could find against circumcision is the possibility of complications. Given that major complications are exceedingly rare (based again on research in scientific journals), I took the risk.

Indeed, I have been more than satisfied with my altered state. My only regret is that I didn't have it done at birth so as to avoid missing out on the first 22 years of benefits.

Re:Circumcision...

[Anonymous Coward]

But it does keep you a bit cleaner...

Re:Circumcision...

[Anonymous Coward]

Would you call the French, Germans, and all of Europe savages?

The French, certainly.

Or China?

Yup.

Or Africa?

Definitely[1]

Or Japan?

Nah.

[1] Circumcision of both sexes is common in Africa

Re:Circumcision...

[thynk]

and the only intelligent argument that I could find against circumcision is the possibility of complications.

Ok, so not that it's any of my business, but what arguments did you have FOR it? Having been altered in this fassion since birth, I've always wondered what the plusses are (if any). My reason for asking? Was a topic of debate this last summer when a friend of mine decided not to have her baby boy circumcised.

(ps - last time I checked, Canadians were American, as well as Mexicans and those who live in the USA.)

Contractual They

[gosand]

In informal contexts, I always use the singular "they". Fuck, it's been part of the English language for seven centuries. Just because Latin-misinterpreting prescriptive grammarians didn't like it doesn't mean it's a bad idea.

So this gets really confusing, and *obviously* I am not the only one who is baffled by this. How come then when "they are" is written as a contraction, people remove either the "y a" or replace the "y a" with "i" and remove the "e" at the end?

English is complicated.

P.S. That intense beeping you hear is your sarcasm meter.

Re:Contractual They

[SpaceJunkie]

This is slashdot - its only when it stops beeping that I am surprised...
This whole discussion reminds me of a situation with my old circle of friends in my home town. One of the guys is gay, and as camp as they come. Occasionally one of us may make a gay joke - to which he will laugh as much as the next guy(in fact he tells more of them).
There was a number of occasions where some outsider - not part of our circle - would jump to his defence and accuse us of all being homophobic.
It would be down to Tris to tell them to STFU - as it would wind him up no end.
The way he figured it is that people who still made such an issue of gay jokes and such, were making an "issue" of it. It should not be a taboo thing - if people are actually comfortable with these things.
"How many coders does it take to change a light bulb? None - its a hardware issue" is not a taboo joke (unless you really are an offended coder!?).

Re:Contractual They

[|/|/|||]

Shit, that was so believable that I almost explained it to you!

Of course, the types who mix the two up are the least likely to actually ask how to use the words correctly.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[Anonymous Coward]

Well I certainly wouldn't mind starving you, pansy.

his/her

[Lochin Rabbar]

The singular indefinite pronoun denoting belonging to an unknown person is their; it is not that pc crap his/her.

Re:his/her

[michael noah]

no. their is plural. the singular is one's. (technically, 'his' is indefinite.)

Re:his/her

[Lochin Rabbar]

Where I come from "one's" is considered so affected that using it a serious faux pas. Using it will get you laughed at, at best, and a bloody nose at worst. The use of "his" is actually relatively recent, nineteenth century, and I believe it was actually mandated by law. However, the third person indefinite is naturally plural, except when referring to groups that are exclusively single sex, hence "their" always fits naturally and its use is long established. Of the three "their" is the one that is least likely to grate and most likely to be pass without being noticed. Thirty years ago "his" would have passed that test, today it does not. So in summary, "one's" is accepted by some subsets of English speaker, "his" is obsolete, "his/her" is pc slang, and "their" is the most accepted therefor the most correct.

Tool

[SilkBD]

In the immortal words of Tool, I quoteth:

Here in this hopeless fucking hole we call LA The only way to fix it is to flush it all away. Any fucking time. Any fucking day. Learn to swim, I'll see you down in Arizona bay.

there's a reason engineers don't get laid

[joss]

If you had been nice about it you could have embarrassed her kindly and she might have wanted to make it up to you [unlikely but possible]. There's a also a chance she could have been encouraged to stop and think before she accuses someone of racism again.

Maybe people who don't suffer fools gladly have something in common with queer bashers, ie stupidity wouldnt bother them so much if they didnt feel they had something to prove.

Re:there's a reason engineers don't get laid

[mattyp]

your insult to his intelligence is too subtle, i don't think he got it. hey original poster, he's calling you stupid with this.

Re:there's a reason engineers don't get laid

[jonnyfivealive]

you are an art major, arent you?

yes, im kidding, and yes, im married

Re:there's a reason engineers don't get laid

[Anonymous Coward]

You are the wind beneath my wings.

Re:there's a reason engineers don't get laid

[Grishnakh]

Luckily, all girls aren't like this, or I wouldn't want to get laid. Why would I want to date some undereducated, self-righteous, loudmouthed bitch who hears something, jumps to the wrong conclusions, and insults someone in public about it, making a complete fool of herself? I don't need someone like that in my life.

Thankfully, with a little looking, I've been able to find women (dating one currently) who are calm, friendly, and don't push narrowminded opinions on you.

Re:there's a reason engineers don't get laid

[luckyguesser]

Oddly enough, people are not always as they appear. However, you certainly seem to have completely and utterly judged this girl from one encounter with her. I'd say that qualifies you as:
a. self-righteous
b. jumping to wrong conclusions (perhaps)
c. insulting someone in public (definitely)

Luckily, all guys aren't like you.

Re:there's a reason engineers don't get laid

[Grishnakh]

Hey dumbass, I'm not even the one who wrote the story, just a commentator.

Even if I had been the guy in the story, the girl is the one that insulted the guy in public first after incorrectly overhearing something he said. So according to you, he's supposed to meekly offer his apologies? You're an idiot.

Just like that girl needed to be shown to be the idiot she was for opening her mouth before thinking, so do you.

Re:there's a reason engineers don't get laid

[instarx]

Why would I want to date some undereducated, self-righteous, loudmouthed bitch who hears something, jumps to the wrong conclusions, and insults someone in public about it, making a complete fool of herself? I don't need someone like that in my life.

We can all thank our lucky stars that there are perfect people like you around.

As for uneducated - I've found that the most uneducated people are frequently the engineering types who know little about anything other than techno-crap. And before you say it, I have an engineering degree. I am also an artist.

As for women who don't push their different opinions on you - can you say "Stepford wives"? For me, any woman who doesn't have her own opinions and is strong enough to express them isn't worth my time. If I want my ideas fed back to me I'll buy a tape recorder.

Re:there's a reason engineers don't get laid

[Grishnakh]

So you also think women should go around yelling at men in public? I never claimed to be perfect, but I definitely don't go around making an ass of myself whenever I hear someone say something that I don't like. Do you actually do this? Would you date a woman who does? This is what this is all about, and I'm having a hard time believing there are people who really think this girl was doing something acceptable by YELLING at a total stranger in public about something she overheard (incorrectly), and he was somehow at fault for not being kind to her. If you really believe this way, then your opinions are worth nothing to me.

I like being around people with strong (and sensible) opinions, but if they stopped total strangers to force their opinions on them, I would have no tolerance for that.

Re:there's a reason engineers don't get laid

[instarx]

You shouldn't take his original post too literally. I have no doubt it was flavored to make Himself sound reasonable and restrained and the other party as unreasonable as possible. I agree that IF the woman started shouting at him out of the blue then she was a boor, but that is a big "if". I don't believe BlockHeadMopar's account of the incident for a second.

And by the way, I apologize for going after you as strongly as I did. I understand what you were trying to say about confrontational women (aka people), and still being annoyed at BlockheadMopar I chose to misinterpret it.

I'll ignore the "So you also think women should go around yelling at men in public?" quote above for the same reason, althought the temptation to make a remark about the Taliban is strong. I think what you mean is the PEOPLE should not go around yelling at PEOPLE in public. Right?

Or ripping utilities

[gosand]

Or about different MP3 encoders.

Or certain terminal based rippers/encoders.

Ping

[Prince Vegeta SSJ4]

Damn my Ping is big. I really wan't a smaller one, the smaller the better.

You just need...

[Anonymous Coward]

You just need a man to give you a good fucking.

Believe me, my wife is a feminist too, but after I fuck her, she's cleaning the floors the next day and cooking me dinner.

You girls can't help it; its burned into your genetic patterns.

We can change society all you want, but you can't escape genetics. Genetics is destiny.

As to your other examples, women earn less because they don't want to earn more. You girls have the babies. That means your priorities are babies through your 20ies and 30ies. Its the difference between somebody who practices 10 years and one that practices 30 years. The person with more experience is worth more.

Don't be so downcast. You are our equal, but we don't have the same abilities. Men are different than women. Celebrate that difference, and for god's sake, get fucked by a man. You can have sex with another woman, but you are not satisfied by it. You can't be. Its genetics again.

Sorry, that's the way it is, toots.

the world's address

[Anonymous Coward]

And rant all you want, but the world is never going back to the default "he".

Go back? Some people still use it--casually, even.

On a side note, if the use of he is discriminatory against women, isn't they discriminatory against individuals?

Re:the world's address

[LPetrazickis]

On a side note, if the use of he is discriminatory against women, isn't they discriminatory against individuals?

IMHO, if you as an individual are not discriminated against when I refer to you with a pronoun that unambiguously refers to any integer number of individuals from one up, then they as an individual are not discriminated against when I refer to them with a pronoun that unambiguously refers to any integer number of individuals up.;)

I don't think anyone has ever turned "she/he/it forever" into a battlecry of individualism. "I forever" and "ego forever" are popular. There probably is a good reason for that.^-^

Personally, I like individualism and I don't think that it faces any threat from this.:)

Re:Name Change California Style

[stinkydog]

Some possible replacement pairs that have been missed.

Govenator / Gropee
Michael Jackson / Small Boy
Forest Fire / House
Hummer / VW Rabbit
Bubba / The Gimp

SD

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[Wolfrider]

--You, my friend, are teh R00T! I *hate* self-righteous, arrogant people.

You're overlooking something...

[Anonymous Coward]

Now that all those slaves have been released, the master hard drives will need others to perform their manual labour.

I, for one, welcome...

You are such a whiner.

[Anonymous Coward]

But a good troll. I like your style to make the geeks jump through hoops with your goofy treatise on blacks and slavery.

trivia hour

[Anonymous Coward]

the word "slave" itself comes from the same word as "Slav" i.e. people who live in that part of the world. At one time, being a Slav and being a slave was synonymous.

Actually, this is why Slavs aren't allowed in L.A. County anymore.

indeed, though

[Anonymous Coward]

while I can agree and sympathise with much of what you said, I do feel there is some bias - indeed - towards the 'gay' community. The silly acronym is one thing, but implying they don't have the right to explain their way of life to other persons, just sounds like you ARE intolerant in that respect.

You try to make it seem 'worse' by saying it goes into 'every detail', but that's ridiculous...and by saying it's to 13y olds...so?

The problem I have with this is, if it were heterosexuals explaining the 'core family-unit' way of life to 13y olds, you would hardly make all these comments about it. It reeks of hypocrisy.

I really don't see any validtion for not talking about other sexual attractions, ESPECIALLY to 12 to 13y olds entering puberty. Unless you think gay feelings only pop up at the magical age of 18?

No, sory, I can follow you on the stupid PC-policy, but it does not follow that other ppl should get less rights or respect. It's not in the name, but in the action...

Ideology uber alles

[Hoi Polloi]

Slashdot has always struck me as more Libertarian than anything else. However, anyone who thinks they have a monopoly on reason usually has very little.

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[LPetrazickis]

I am speaking out of my ass, but it could well have been both. Observe the way French and Russian have the exclusively singular "tu" and "tih" while recommending the use of the plural "vous" and "vih" when being excessively polite.

Even if "thou" was nothing more than a colloquialism, my point of it having its own form of verbs that needlessly complicated the elegance of the English language stands.

Also, the transition still gives precedent for what I am advocating even if the leap is larger for the singular "they".:)

Political Correctness GONE TOO FAR!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

First of all - JUST ABOUT EVERY RACE ON EARTH HAS BEEN ENSLAVED BY EVERY OTHER RACE ON EARTH AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER!!!!!!

And this has nothing to do with race, slavery or anything else. Male/Female, Master/Slave are both sets of terms that PERFECTLY and UNIVERSALLY describe specific tech functions. If someone is going to get bent out of shape because of these terms, its because they are 1. IGNORANT and 2. REACTIONARY.

Note to humorless guy with axe to grind

[ianscot]

No, "they" don't call themselves the "N" word "all day long." I can't remember hearing anyone identify herself in that way in, say, the last ten years. Before that it's possible, I guess. Hey, my memory's not perfect. I've never, ever, heard "cracker." (Closest to discrimination I've felt was when the Native American guy asked me for change and was incredulous that I was walking because I didn't have money for the bus.)

But yeah, it seems to happen on Def Comedy Jam, so you're obviously in touch with how black people think. Go you.

Spare clue I had around: It's okay to make self-deprecating remarks about yourself, but when you do it to other people they often don't take it very well. When a gay friend of mine says something, ruefully, about other gay men, that's okay. I don't have get the same allowance when it comes to talking about gay men. I'm not a gay man. So, you know, um... duh.

Re:Note to humorless guy with axe to grind

[Zonekeeper]

Oh oh oh, I *GET* it. You have to be a member of a protected minority to be able to say anything about it. I missed that amendment. Must be a new one, number 28, because its no where in the previous 27. My bad.

Oh, and yes, I can stand at my college outside any building where a group of black americans (note, they're Americans. Not African-Americans. Stop hyphenating everything people.) are gathered (or even passing each other) and listen to n****er this n***** that CONSTANTLY. So don't tell they don't call themselves that, when I hear it EVERY day.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[PitaBred]

Wait, what? Eating all the calories the animal ate? So it didn't actually use any when it, say, mooed? Get over yourself. Animals are pretty damn efficient, too. If they weren't, they wouldn't exist. Plants don't use the majority of energy coming into their leaves from the sun. And anyway, life is pain. Get over it.

Re:Hmm... replacement suggestions

[Anonymous Coward]

Too bad you can jumper the drives to determine master/slave without regard to cable position.

what about photography

[scharkalvin]

The term 'slave flash' is used to describe a secondary flash unit that fires when it sees the flash from the primary flash connected to the camera.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[fitten]

Plants don't have central nervous systems. Plants don't feel harm.

Your supposition doesn't necessarily lead to your conclusion. Many organisms do not have central nervous systems but do respond to stimuli that are harmful to them.

YOU are starving your fellow man.

Are you accusing me of eating someone else's steak?

A quick look at the human physiology (eye placement for binocular vision, types of teeth in the jaw - canines and incisors as well as molars and bicuspids, etc.) all indicate that humans are omnivorous by design. That means that humans were designed to eat both "meat" and "veggies". The choice of whether or not to eat from either classification of food is just that - a choice - because you *are* designed to take from both categories of foods, regardless if you like that fact or not.

I wonder what the vegetarian community thinks of the Atkins Diet :)

Obligitory S/M Comment

[nurb432]

Doesn't that mean that they are unfairly discriminating against people that practice BSDM? I smell another complaint coming... Of course that would come from the Dominates, not the submissives :).

Re:Obligitory S/M Comment

[swordgeek]

Heh. I have a friend living a D/s lifestyle, and believe me--she takes shit from NO ONE except her Master. If she were in LA, she'd be storming city council in a second.

Re:Obligitory S/M Comment

[Anonymous Coward]

HAHAHAHA You can always count on us Slashdotters to come up with an S&M/bondage/something else kinky reference out of every other news story that comes along.

BigBlockMopar making lies up

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, I was there. That is hardly a verbatim transcription.

You left out the uhs and stammers and general nerdlike behavior, and you certainly didn't say all that.

You're rewriting history to make yourself look cool on slashdot. Fucking nerd!

Re:Motherboard? - offending orphans?

[scharkalvin]

The word 'mother' has another meaning as well (though it seems to be usually only spoken by people of color, at least in urban areas.)

Re:That's all very well... Troll feeding....

[Anonymous Coward]

for the M/F argument there is that the labeling of such Bits of plastic emphasises the inequality.
But theyre is no equality. There is equivalence, but definitely not equality. (Note: Equality implies that all members are equal (that is to say, there is literally no difference) whereas equivalence implies that neither is greater nor less than the other.)

MOD PARENT UP!!

[Anonymous Coward]

(+1, Funny)!

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[Anonymous Coward]

Eating meat makes you a bad person. That's right. You are a bad human.

So if I described someone who spends most of her time torturing and killing small animals, or thinking about doing so, you'd probably say that she's a bad person, right? Well, she's my cat, and that's just the way cats are.

You probably don't have a problem with a cat killing innocent creatures. That's in its nature. It's a carnivore. The thing is, humans are omnivores. We are supposed to eat meat. It's in our nature. We do it far more humanely than the vast majority of other meat eaters on the planet. We even raise our own meat.

All these people who say eating meat is bad need to learn a little about nature sometime.

Another case of meaning "hijacking"

[Hoi Polloi]

"I am offended that some crazy whites and blacks in the USA attempt to control the entire meaning and history of the terms "master" and "slave" so that it can ONLY refer to the specific form this relationship took in recent US history. As if there is only one meaning for the terms, as if they have a monopoly on their meaning and use."

That reminds me of what has happened to the swastika. It has ancient roots and appears in different variations in archeological finds around Eurasia. It is still used in India and Buddhist symbology as a symbol of power and good luck (I think it is Sanskrit for "luck symbol"). It even still appears as a pattern in old buildings and art in Eastern Europe and the Balkans. Now the meaning of it has been corrupted, maybe forever, by the Nazis and those won't let the Nazi meaning attached to it go away. Its a shame.

Free the hard drives!!

[Hoi Polloi]

Master and slave drives!? Let my storage devices go!

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[legojenn]

What's wrong with licence? From the OED, 2nd ed,:
licence, n., 1. a. Liberty (to do something), leave, permission. Now somewhat rare. Also occas. exemption from (something). Formerly often in phr. licence and leave; by, with, without (a person's) licence; to get, give, have, obtain, take (a) licence.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[Anonymous Coward]

Eating meat makes you a bad person. That's right. You are a bad human.

Even if he's a bad person let me assure you, he's a great goddamned human being. You see those eyeballs in your head? Notice how they both face forward, instead of one to each side? You're a fucking *hunter* bub, not the prey.

You are the bad human.

Derrida

[The Ape With No Name]

If you read this book, you'll eventually ask yourself, "Well, what exactly can you talk about?"

You haven't been reading your Derrida, my friend. ;-)

Problem solved.... use only SCSI !!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

IDE sucks anyway, if they'd only use SCSI drives, there's be no problem with the master/slave lingo :D

Fucking Christ Almighty...

[Anonymous Coward]

Where the hell are we going to draw the line?!
"No johnny, the african-americans weren't slaves, they were unpaid hired help. Don't ever say the S-word ever again, do you understand? You might make an african-american somewhere very upset."
Or how about this one?
"The Japanese air force attacked the evil imperialist United States on December 7, 1941. The US government, looking for an excuse to antagonize a race of people they thought inferior, declared war and killed hundreds of thousands of japanese civilians..."

This PC bullshit has got to STOP.

California... the Muesli of the USA

[Anonymous Coward]

the land of fruits, flakes, and nuts...

Don't forget ' taking dumps'

[Anonymous Coward]

Try telling mixed company that when your computer crashed it took a dump. Or mention that when you process crashed, you forced your computer to take a dump.

Next up: Names for Our Cable Connector Types

[Vexler]

Will they now object to *OBVIOUSLY* suggestive, even lewd, references to anatomically correct parts???

"No, you may NOT call it male or female connectors. Instead you must work with us and call it 'vreeba' and 'boombai', and snap to it!"

*sigh*

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[Anonymous Coward]

You see those eyeballs in your head? Notice how they both face forward, instead of one to each side?

Actually, it's probably more because you were a tree-dweller. You needed that depth perception to jump to the next branch.

Then again, squirrel's eyes are more on the side...

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[NotClever]

Best... Reply... Ever!

:)

Iberian Mule

[Walrus99]

I totally agree with removing the term master/slave from technical documents. I am of German descent and my ancestors were enslaved by the Romans. Any reference to slavery is offensive to me. Also any reference to Latins, since my great-great..great grandfather was probably enslaved by people who spoke Latin. I propose we no longer use the term Latin America or Latin Music. I am still wating for my reparations check from the Italian government. Do you know how much an Iberain mule and fourty acres of Carthegian land would be worth in todays cash equivilent??

Yeah those mexicans should be deported...

[FatSean]

Not sold into 'slavery'. I'm sure they could leave whenever they wanted, they just prefered to work under those conditions than go back to Mexico. Fear of deportation helps with the decision to stay just a few months longer and save up more money.

I mean...duh.

Re:Yeah those mexicans should be deported...

[Zemran]

Just as a matter of interest...
How many cars do you have out front?
How many have wheels?
How many have sunk up to their axles?

I mean... duh.

One more

[Hoi Polloi]

How about the Snoop Doggy Dog version:

Pimp and Ho

Re:One more

[hesiod]

> How about the Snoop Doggy Dog version:

I can't believe no one has replied to this. That's a GREAT idea! Your slave cylinder would become your "Break Ho" and the master cylinder, the "Pimp Pump."

Unfortunately for I.T., with terms like that, RAID wouldn't be quite so loved.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[Insightfill]

I'm actually a vegan (for my own reasons) and found your story hysterical (oops - there's a word with sexist roots!)

She went in there looking for a fight and the store failed to give her one. Then you gave the cashier a victory they weren't expecting. Good one!!

Seriously - some people need to grow thicker skin or something. I go into almost any place, find the one or two things I can eat, and go with it - no picking fights with the staff and no attempts to convert the people I'm with.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[ToeDruid]

I'm a veggie, but I don't think much of the atkins diet...not because of my vegetarian ethics, but simply because I appreciate my fully functioning kidneys just as they are thanks :)

in a similar vein...

[pdhenry]

Along the same lines:

I've read a few real estate descriptions recently, and noticed that the term "Master Bedroom" is gradually being replaced by "Owner's Bedroom."

ha!

[Anonymous Coward]

Hint: You blockquote him. He just posted.

. . . don't you mean they just posted?

Re:Motherboard? - offending orphans?

[Anonymous Coward]

since posting the above some co-workers have pointed out to me some additional expletives which i should not have exposed you to and for which i apologize.

1) Flash the bios on the motherboard ... obviously flashing in public places is illegal and will land you in a lot of trouble. perhaps "Bikini the Bios" would be better?

2) Ahh yes there is a jumper on the genderneutralboard for that ... again obviously i meant no offence to anyone who for whatever reason is unable to jump. please accept my apologies, i have a lot thought about this, and to me "pullovers" or "cardigans" may be a better less offensive alternative.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[tipsymonkey]

I was at a local dinner with my vegiterian girl friend at the time and I ended up ordering a hamburger while she got a grilled cheese sandwich. I then had to sit through a 10 minute lecture on how meat is processed and killed and that I was a horrible person for eating meat.

So I then told her "Do you know how cheese is made? They inject cows with so much hormones that their udders get so big that they can't even walk. Their legs break and they just lay in one spot for the rest of their lives giving milk for your cheese sandwich."

That was the best meal ever. I not only got to eat my hamburger but I also got to eat her grilled cheese sandwich.
Thing were never the same after that....

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[GenSolo]

The leap is much larger because switching from plural to singular is very unnatural because there is a large difference between referencing one thing and referencing a multitude of things, but dropping "thou" from use simply removed the "importance" connotation from the word. "You" was used essentially as Spanish uses "Usted/Ustedes" (you is both singular and plural, but people generally use another word (often all) to distinguish the plural form). The same goes for "vous" in French, I think. "Thou"/"You" was primarily a feudal/manorial thing to make one's societal betters feel important.

nobody here works?

[Sotogonesu]

Hey, nobody here has a real job, or you would have thought of "boss and direct report drive".

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[edp]

"There is no such thing as the singular 'they'. This is a commonly mistake; 'they' is always plural."

If you check the Oxford English Dictionary, you will see that "they", "them", "their", and even "themselves" are used in the singular and have been for at least six hundred years. The notion that "they" is only plural is a modern invention, not based in actual use. Shakespeare and Chaucer used these words as singular.

In looking at the older OED citations, such as "Bath ware made sun and mon, Aither wit ther ouen light" from the 1300s, it is remarkable to note the singularity of "their" has remained steady in the English language while so much else changed around it. Any feature that has survived so much change over so long a period is clearly well established. The notion that it is plural only is a myth that deserves to be dismissed.

The Govenator

[Hoi Polloi]

Governor Arnold is a Socialist? Someone should let him know!

No Problem!

[WebMasterJoe]

If I were an HD vendor who sold equipment, I'd have no problem making this change. Of course, this would cost more to me to alter the labels, and I'd have to create some new documentation, full-color glossy and such, and I'd probably have to do a lot of "awareness" marketing campaigns to let the IT industry in LA understand the new terminology. I would have no problem passing this cost on to LA buyers; in fact I'd probably have to mark up the cost a bit as well.

And if I was in IT in LA, I'm quite sure it would take me twice as long to set up systems with the new hard drive identification terminology - some of that extra time would be spent looking at the full-color glossy promotional materials, and some would be spent reading about it on slashdot.

But LA is more concerned with keeping us from using words that might make us think about human slavery, even though I personally never equated my second hard drive with an African-American working in a field, and my primary hard drive doesn't look much like a Southern 18th-century landowner. I suppose the folk in LA's government were thinking about that, though, and can't trust the intellect of their constituents to consider the context of perfectly harmless words. Well, I suppose "50% markup" will have to enter their vocabulary, too. Western Digital, are you listening? Rip off LA! Gouge them!

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[AyeRoxor!]

You can gripe and complain and mod me troll until the cows come home. The fact is I'm right. "Ain't" has been in use for eons but will never be proper grammar. Same with this cockamamie 'singular they' bullshit.

Just deal. Fuckin' whiners.

Re:You're still not gonna get laid

[Carewolf]

Ignoring the dummest half the opposite sex will only half your chances not eliminate them, but I guess _you_ would take anything?

Re:webmaster - web weaver

[PaulTownsend]

Uh oh.

Does that mean that my degree is going to be changed to "Weaver of Science" ?

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[tholomyes]

That life cycle has gotten a lot shorter. "Bootylicious" is in the dictionary, for instance, and schools have an increasing tolerance for letting the kids write however they damn well please, being afraid to squash their imagination and/or sense of self-worth.

Some schools aren't even allowed to make more than 5 grammatical corrections per assignment, lest they crush those fragile little egos! So now nothing is a mistake, anyway.

Re:Next up: Names for Our Cable Connector Types

[Zed2K]

or innies and outies

FUCK that.

[jafac]

I'm white.

I am a descendent of slaves. (my ancestor that came over from europe paid for his boat passage by becoming an indentured servant, in a copper mine in Northern Michigan, and since the mining company owned the town, all the stores, all the rental property, and there were no other towns for 200 miles, he was effectively, and legally a slave).

I am not at all offended by the IDE master/slave terminology.

I AM offended when other descendants of slaves think they're special because of their particular cultural heritage.

But I'm mostly offended by the continued industry dominance of crappy technology (- trying to start a SCSI/IDE flamewar).

Re:FUCK that.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm white.

Sorry but, you're white... you don't get to be offended by anything. Blame your world conquoring cousins for that one. Actually, I think you can be offended by Gay people... that might be okay.

Re:FUCK that.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm white, too, and also descended from slavery. My ancestors were white slaves in Sub-Saharan Africa in the 1600's, and were rescued by the Portugese.

Oh, and by the way, SCSI Rocks! IDE sucks donkey..

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[Random832]

Thing were never the same after that....

after you got dumped, you mean?

I am not a slave

[vigilante3]

This is Maxtor 120 Gig hard drive SN 32002 and I'm suing all of those computers that call me a ''slave' I have emotional distress and I want a million dollars from the owner of each unit. See you in court. Thank you.

Better idea

[Hoi Polloi]

Change them to images of a penis and labia on the doors, that should fix things.

Re:This is important! What about Master Degree????

[bhima]

Fantastic!

I've always wanted to be a pimp!

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[Anonymous Coward]

Not worth dating a vegan anyway.

Los Angeles is violation of the separation

[MoronBob]

of church and state and the name is offencive to me. Angels are a religious symbol thus making the name Los Angeles a clear violation of the constitution. I demand that the City and County of Los Angeles be renamed to The City and County of No gender,race,creed,color,religion or political persuasion. This name change must take effect immediatly or I will call David Boies.

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[Shadestalker]

English isn't evolving, it's being surgically altered. Don't try to fool yourself that some kind of natural selection has a damn thing to do with "bling bling" being in the dictionary instead of a dictionary of slang.

This prevents the Moldie-Cyborg War of 2139

[wondafucka]

You are looking at this all wrong. This small change in linguistics prevents the worldwide destruction in the Moldie-Cyborg war of 2139. This prevents the Socialist "Autobots" from teaming up with the biohacked humans to fight against the controling Right Wing "Decepticons." The robot/mold people of the future fully accept the replacement terms of "Pimp" and "Bitch."

Asshole? I doubt it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone with the nick "BigBlockMopar" is OK in my book. Especially here, where the Prius is considered the ultimate car.

Re:Asshole? I doubt it.

[Anonymous Coward]

The Prius is a POS, even by the standards of small, underpowered tinfoil shitboxes. If I had to buy an econobox I'd rather have an Echo, it is a much better value for the money than the Prius. The Prius is enough more expensive and doesn't get enough better gas milage to make up for it. By my calculations it would take at least 12 years for most drivers to break even and that is assuming that the maintenance and insurance costs are the same, which they won't be. With the higher replacement cost the insurance will surely be higher, and I seriously doubt with all the extra complexity and parts that the Prius will be as reliable as conventional Toyotas. And given that intermediate battery storage is still used in hybrids as far as I know, that part is likely to require more frequent and expensive service.

All that said, I'd never buy a car as boring as an Echo... Give me a V8, rear drive car or full size pickup any day.

Agree on tort reform, but paranoia is no excuse

[Presence1]

So, according to you, when there is some hardship or risk, it is OK to do the wrong thing?

It is easy to do the right thing when there is no threat or difficulty. Real character is shown by what people actually do in difficult or threatening circumstances.

Your argument just makes my point more strongly -- you apparently agree that these people failed to do the right thing, you just give the excuse that there may be some vague tort threat, and that the people in these offices are generally paranoid.

SO WHAT? Officers of the government are immune from personal suit for actions in office; the worst consequence is that they lose the next election (tho I think someone doing the right thing would win in a landslide). These so called "leaders" need to STOP SAVING THEIR JOBS AND START DOING THEIR JOBS.

That said, I do agree with you that we need some kind of tort reform, and the English rule of loser pays might be one effective method, but that's another topic.

Re:Agree on tort reform, but paranoia is no excuse

[Hoi Polloi]

"Officers of the government are immune from personal suit for actions in office; the worst consequence is that they lose the next election"

But the town/city/etc ISN'T immune. That is my point. They are doing their jobs by protecting the citizens from lawsuits. You say they should take these brave stances, fine, but don't complain when it comes out of your taxes to pay for a multi-million dollar lawsuit.

Re:Agree on tort reform, but paranoia is no excuse

[Presence1]

No complaints here.

I understand that it may take a few absurd verdicts to generate sufficient outrage to stop such stupidity. It is a cost we have to bear.

At least make the offended idiot go to the trouble of finding a lawyer that will take such a low-probability case, take the time to proecute it, etc. I don't really expect any judge to accept an argument that a common technical term, properly used in context, will cause any tortious damage, especially on appeal. However, I know that more outlandish verdicts have been made, so it is an actual risk.

But this potential defense and loss is a better cost than capitulation in advance.

This capitulation is GUARANTEED to increase the costs for all taxpayers. Not only are tax-paid employees wasting time on this BS, they are also causing bidding vendors to do the work of making specious changes to their specifications, and probably causing smart vendors to not even offer their services.

This is almost textbook stupidity; it causes losses on others, without any real gain to the person taking the action (see www.truestupidity.com/basic.htm for a fun read).

Your Bias Is Showing As Well

[virg_mattes]

> Yet some ignorant fool in L.A. county decided that slavery was an affliction exclusive to the black race- there's no other explanation for why master/slave is suddenly an insensitive term there.

Nice guess, but a guess nonetheless. There's no mention in the issuance by L.A. County about the race of the complainant, and no mention of race at all, in fact. It's possible that the person complaining is Hispanic, or even white, but you have no way of knowing, so you base your argument only on assumption. Since your assumption is apparently that anyone who is hypersensitive to "master/slave" must be black, you have little room commenting on bigotry.

Virg

Re:Your Bias Is Showing As Well

[JaxGator75]

I'm betting it was a middle-aged or old (rich) white woman. Any takers???

Re:Your Bias Is Showing As Well

[Anonymous Coward]

Fortunately I do not live in LA county and do not need to follow their politically correct lunacy. The correct technical terminology is master/slave and I shall continue to use it. For drive assignments or NFS servers. As for LA county - I guess this is easier than dealing with their fiscal problems (hmmm, maybe this type of foolishness is helping to fuel them).

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep, that's why I only drink organic milk now. No hormones, no antibiotics, no pesticides in the feed. And it tastes better, too.

I still eat meat, though. The thing that I don't think a lot of vegetarians understand is that meat isn't the problem. TOO MUCH meat is the problem.

Obligatory George Carlin reference

[still cynical]

Now that "chairman" must be "chairperson", "fireman" must be "fireperson", what's a manhole? A personhole? Would a mailman now be a personperson?

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[gryphokk]

Actually, yes. I eat pepperoni right out of the package.

Slashdot groupthink at its worst

[fname]

Tom,

The responses to your take on this issue says more about those responding than with your position. Your post's point, while debatable, can scarcely be characterized as flamebait or a troll. In fact, it's one of the few posts I've seen supporting LA county. The group-think on Slashdot has never been more clear than while reading the responses to your posts.

I mostly wonder why 1000+ people feel the need to post on this topic when 99% of them have the exact same viewpoint, and the moment a counter-point comes up, it's dismissed with unfounded attacks. Slashdotters should think about the PC bull that goes on here before jumping down someone's throat for defending the PC stuff that goes on in the real world.

maybe this will work

[Anonymous Coward]

why not call it supervisor/subordinate ?

I give up.

[doppleganger871]

That's it. California should be chopped of the contenient. Get rid of it.... gone, useless. Just causing us more grief. Next to go should be New Jersey, send them over to China, they're communist anyway.

Why the f|_|ck should I care about California anyway? Other than the fact that their 9th circuit courts are a group of douchebags.

Ohwell.

Re:I give up.

[doppleganger871]

Actually, you liberals wanted it, now you got it. I think Suicidal Tendencies had the best line... "I'm sorry I offended you, but maybe you needed to be offended."

DIRE WARNING

[omarius]

I once attended a course where the instructor noted he'd been sent to sensitivity training because he offended a (female) attendee by referring to "male" and "female" ends of cords. The offered euphamisms were "plug" and "socket."

Beware! Much like "pee" and "poo," we must not let the counterrevolutionaries know that "penii" and "vaginae" exist, lest they start breeding.

fighting the devil

[grue23]

I think someone in Alabama or some other State full of Southern Baptists needs to advocate the removal of references to 'daemons' in UNIX since they're Satanic!

Re:fighting the devil

[Anonymous Coward]

That's why a lot of people seem to be pronouncing it "day-mon" now. That way, it sounds a lot like a name that is marginally popular among African Americans in some areas, and an attempt to banish it can be easily contorted into an act of slavery.

Gotta love the system.

Nixon doesnt care anymore

[t0ny]

You kind of answered your own question. Nixon won his election, and that was all he was after. He wasnt really concerned with the long term good of their the RNC or the country; he just wanted to be President, and didnt really care what the cost would be. He kind of set the future tone of the Republican Party with that outlook, as well.

although you indirect mention them...

[Anonymous Coward]

.. the Slavs? Surely there's a reason we use the word "slave".

Holy crap, 1600+ posts!

[Anonymous Coward]

I once lost a job because the affirmitive action police (HR manager) appeared in my department demanding an explanation as to why there were no black people in my group.

The reason was, there had been no black applicants. This didn't matter, I was replaced with a black employee who had no education or qualifications. Basically, they yanked my position and posted the opening with the labor board intentionally seeking an employee based on their race.

This should be illegal. If nothing else, it's unethical. The result of affirmitive action, for me, was a general dislike for the "black community" and their political agenda.

I've been in a position to choose who gets hired for quite some time and am relatively immune from affirmitive action. Do I hire blacks? NO. The black community, to me, has show it needs no further help from people like me. If they are going to put laws into action that force whites out of jobs, then they are on their own. Go work for a "black owned" business, it seems these places are everywhere and they like to tack this information on their yellow pages ads and the signs in front of their businesses.

I also will not hire women. I won't until the laws change and allow for equal treatment of all employees, regardless of race or sex. Just because you are female, you don't have the right to have a baby on my dime. You save your own money and use your vacation + medical leave to have it. I don't know how many people have hired a woman who had a baby while employed, but it's a profit sucking journey for a small business owner who's already having enough trouble surviving in the market. "What? You can't come in AGAIN? The tyke has kept you out of work 6 more days this month!!! It's not like the whole economy stopped while jr has a cold!!" :-(

Re:Holy crap, 1600+ posts!

[Desirsar]

"The reason was, there had been no black applicants. This didn't matter, I was replaced with a black employee who had no education or qualifications. Basically, they yanked my position and posted the opening with the labor board intentionally seeking an employee based on their race. This should be illegal. If nothing else, it's unethical. The result of affirmitive action, for me, was a general dislike for the "black community" and their political agenda." That IS illegal. It's probably a bit late now, but you should have contacted the ACLU or some similar organization immediately. The employment laws all say "may not discriminate on the basis of race, religion, sex...", but nowhere does it say "this only applies if you belong to a minority group". It's hard to prove someone was hired or not hired by discriminatory practices, but it's very easy to prove someone was fired for it, especially with the particular circumstance you had. (The HR guy asking why you have no blacks in your group, then replacing you with one, is kind of a hint.) I've always thought there were too many lawsuits in this country, and with too much in the way of damage awards, but your case seems like one that actually deserves it.

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[gryphokk]

'Thou' was the informal form of 'you', not the singular form.

[Archaic grammar nazi mode]

"Thou" is the subjective second person singular.

"Thee" is the objective second person singular.

Example:

Thou shalt not displease the Lord, lest he smite thee.

Or, as my Quaker grandfather was queried when he visited a meeting in a strange land (and imprudently sat near the woman he would eventually marry):

"Who is thee, and where is thee from?"

[/Archaic grammar nazi mode]

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[Anonymous Coward]

More vegans and vegetarians should be like you.

L.A. County Bans Use Of "Master/Slave" Term

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know about yawl, but my slave drives is happy drives. And if they ain't, I beat'm!!!

Why not start with the easy ones

[rcpitt]

They're up against all us techies - quite a fight.

Why don't they just legislate pi = 3 and take on the mathematicians instead? That should be easier!

thunderdome

[dirtdirt]

master/blaster

This is just plain wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

It is not the job of any government to protect people from being offended. Oh, somebody got their precious feelings hurt. TOUGH SHIT! Nobody has the right not to be offended. Changing the labels on inanimate objects offends the hell out of me.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[shotfeel]

Many organisms do not have central nervous systems but do respond to stimuli that are harmful to them.

Even one-celled organisms can do that.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[Misanthropy]

Delicious Murder!

Don't judge me by my skin...

[digitalcowboy]

Here's a test for you. Try using the word "niggardly" in a sentence and see how many thin-skinned feebs decide to tar and feather you for being a racist.

I demand an apology! You cannot just go around judging people and discriminating against them based on the thickness of their skin! You insensitive clod!

I have a dream that someday people will be judged not by the thickness of their skin but by the content of their character.

No more "master's" degrees

[Anonymous Coward]

How can they award a master's degree now to anybody in Lala land? Plus, all those city and county employees who have their degree hanging in their offices will have to cover up the word with tape.

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[Anonymous Coward]

You're right, but a hypothetical person (singular) is actually a multidimensional array of possible people (plural). Therefore, referring to an unknown gender as they is correct.

Memo To The New California Governer.

[LifesABeach]

In response to the Governers request for suggestions on cutting down the budget; I respectfully submit the following:

Joe Sandoval, Division Manager
Purchasing and Contract Services
Internal Services Department
County of Los Angeles

This person has waaaaaaaaaaay to much free time.

Wait a minute, we're talking about L.A.County; Never mind...

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[Mr. Slippery]

I thought the punchline was going to be the usual observations about leather shoes, belt, purse, jacket etc.

Uh, you do realize that many of us vegetarians have non-leather shoes, belts, purses, jackets, etcetera? Indeed that there are companies (like this, this, and this) that specialize in the production of high-quality synthetic leather goods? That one can get synthetic leather Doc Martens, Birkenstocks, Nikes, and other well-known brands of footwear?

So that such a "usual observation" will often leave you looking like a jackass?

Which is not to justify asinine PCness - while I am a leftist vegan in favor of diversity, as a straight white gun-owning whisky-drinking male who likes dirty jokes, my very existence is considered non-PC by some extremists.

Oh, *that* kind of slavery

[metamatic]

I thought it was being interpreted as an inappropriately smutty BDSM reference, until I read the comments.

LIAR!

[virg_mattes]

> Like, I as a Canadian find that term offensive.

You lying sack of s%$#t, you're not Canadian. You typed six sentences, and didn't end any of them correctly, eh?

Virg

STOP IT! Coffee All Over My Keyboard!!

[LifesABeach]

People are looking at me with questioning glances at my laughing out loud.

i was having flash backs to similar events in the early '70s.

Now I gotta find something to clean up this mess from spitting out coffee all over my computer.

Another solution

[metamatic]

Mark one XX, the other XY.

Put up a sign saying that anyone with Kleinfelter's Syndrome can choose.

Re:Another solution

[toriver]

Where do the YY deviants of Alien 3 go?

(Joke: I know, there cannot be YY humans because the X chromosome programs a girl before the Y chromosome reprograms into a boy.)

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[pianophile]

[...] humans were designed to [...]

More like "humans evolved", rather than were designed to, eat omnivorously.

"He" considered sexist

[Sunnan]

For those who don't think that using a default "he" is bad, please check out this thought experiment by Douglas Hofstader.

It's interesting to read, regardless of what conclusion you come up with.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[Nodatadj]

> Nikes

So while saving the animals, lots of people are suffering the horrid conditions of nike sweatshops.

They're setting the stage for higher costs

[Tired_Blood]

What I find funny is that the notice provided no potential replacements for the pair.

Given that this one isolated place is creating restrictions, they're going to have fun trying to sort out the different term-replacements each vendor will adopt. Also, each vendor that is not exclusively dependent upon this one county will need to create a slightly different package for LA. Won't this contribute slightly to service/production cost?

I guess LA isn't so strapped for cash as we're being lead to believe.

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[Neurotoxic666]

"if the culture as a whole (or even in large part) decides the old way is inadequate, the language will change accordingly."

It's not even a large part. It's a loud, lobbying, politicaly-correct minority... And they probably wear wooden sandals too.

Fruits?

[virg_mattes]

> Images of British sailors with scurvy aside, all it really brings to mind are fruits.. Sorta like fags and cigarettes..

So fags smoke a lot of cigarettes in Britain?

Virg

Master/Slave should be removed!

[spidergoat2]

And while we're at it, I find those male/female plugs and receptacles offensive! They refer to human sex organs and thus, the terms are perverted. I don't want to think about penises everytime I plug something in the wall. And what about the children?! This must end!

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[squeegee_boy]

Do you have a published study that proves high-protein diets are hard on one's kidneys?

I haven't found one yet, despite what "many" medical professionals will tell me.

-Robyn

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[Schaffner]

Of course, those "synthetics" are usually made from petrochemicals, which come from oil. So, you're encouraging increased oil consumption and drilling in ANWR, right?

stickers

[Anonymous Coward]

We need stickers that come in pairs of BLACK and WHITE that say "FUCK LA" that we can stick on our hard drives now - according to configuration of course :)

New terms to replace the old ones.

[weeboo0104]

Rather than Master/Slave, here are a few other names I would like to suggest.

Dom/Sub
Pitcher/Catcher
Pimp/Ho

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[Mr. Slippery]

Many organisms do not have central nervous systems but do respond to stimuli that are harmful to them.

But it takes a somewhat complex nervous system to be possessed of consciousness. I can wire a very simple circuit to respond to stimuli, but that's not sentience.

But even if there were such a thing as plant "suffering", a vegetarian diet would still be preferable - after all, all those cows eat a lot of plants.

A quick look at the human physiology (eye placement for binocular vision, types of teeth in the jaw - canines and incisors as well as molars and bicuspids, etc.) all indicate that humans are omnivorous by design.

Uh, gorillas have binocular vision and similar dentation (indeed, larger canines and incisors IIRC), but are herbivorous. Chimps and humans are the only higher primates that eat meat at all; chimps get only about 5% of their food from predation, and that's mostly insects. Humans, unaided by tools, could catch and eat an occasional small mammal, but that's about it. You couldn't even bite your way into larger animals.

I wonder what the vegetarian community thinks of the Atkins Diet

There are a few who follow it (it is possible). Most, however, know enough about nutrition (having been told for years by ignorant people how we're going to die any day now from lack of protein, vitamin B-12, or whatever, we learn in self-defense) to realize that its a sophmoric, health-endangering fad diet. Protein is for building tissue, not for burning. It makes a dirty fuel. Eat complex carbohydrates for fuel, dammit.

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[Anonymous Coward]

Now somewhat rare.

That means it's stupid, ergo, you are a homosexual.

Submit? Never!

[Valdrax]

Am I the only one cracked in the head enough to mentally cry out "Never!" every time I hit a "Submit" button?

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[ultranova]

So, how do you make a pizza without using any plant products, like flour ?-)

I'm an omnivore and believe it's unethical for anyone to try to force poor defenseless me to limit my diet because of their guilt complexes.

Giver the girl a break

[Anonymous Coward]

She's very young, and has all the perspective that 18 years can bring. I wish I was 18, but with another 30 years of perspective.

Re:Giver the girl a break

[�nertia]

Your proving my point about gender inferances through language. I'm not a girl =-)

Re:Giver the girl a break

[�nertia]

Nor am I 18. (My spelling is does leave much to be desired I will admit )

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[ultranova]

Sorry, I just had to respond to this.

Your supposition doesn't necessarily lead to your conclusion. Many organisms do not have central nervous systems but do respond to stimuli that are harmful to them.

If an organism doesn't respond to stimuli in any way, then that stimuli isn't harmfull to it. After all, if the stimuli didn't affect the organism, then the organism obviously wasn't harmed by it.

cheese facts

[Savatte]

Wait a minute, cheese is made from animal by-products? Possibly. The cheese used in a restaurant that serves grilled cheese? That's kraft singles all the way, made with oil and food coloring.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[Mr. Slippery]

So while saving the animals, lots of people are suffering the horrid conditions of nike sweatshops.

Just to be clear - I wasn't advocating Nikes. Don't buy them myself, for just that reason. However, there's probably someone out there who agress with me on not wanting to use leather, but also beleives that megacorps like Nike bringing (low-paying, no room for advancement, race-to-the-bottom) jobs to third world countries is ok.

One issue at a time. :-)

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[Anonymous Coward]

cool -- thanks for the reply. It really was one of those things where I realized I was speaking after I was almost through. Inner dialog problem... :)

--
rjamestaylor

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[Mr. Slippery]

Of course, those "synthetics" are usually made from petrochemicals, which come from oil.

Leather production is resource intensive - besides the energy and toxic chemicals used to tan hides, a lot of petrochemicals and are used to fuel farm equipment and to grow animal feed. (Same applies to most cotton production.)

Synthetics are also resource intensive. (Of course, most of them could in theory be made from plant oil feedstocks rather than petrochemicals.)

As usual, it's not a perfect world. Everything we do has an impact - even suicide leaves a mess for others to clean up, possibly with petrochemical-based cleaners.

ignorant of the power of language

[chocolatetrumpet]

I think you underestimate of the power of language and how it shapes our culture.

PC language is about creating an environment we all want to live in, with respect to the force of language.

Re:ignorant of the power of language

[LittleBigLui]

So we all want to live in an environment where you can't call a slave drive a slave drive?

Re:Another Relevant Quote [OT]

[Anonymous Coward]

IMHO, the informed opinion is that a terrorist attack on the continental US was inevitable, so the government should have had pretty much everything in place since at least the 70s/80s for both detection/prevention and the event/aftermath.

Problem is that the US government dismissed out of hand the best means of prevention. Which would have been to get out of the Middle East and most of Central and South America.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[Ulven]

Vegetarians are usually quite happy to wear leather shoes, belts and coats etc. After all, the defitition of a vegitarian is just someone who doesn't eat meat.

You yourself not only don't eat meat, but you don't have anything to do with leather, or eat cheese, eggs, milk etc. You said it yourself, you are a vegan.

vegitarian != vegan.

So seeing that the girl in the story called herself a vegitarian, such an observation would be perfectly valid.

Re: vegetarians

[DickBreath]

" and I refuse to kill a defenseless animal for my nutrition."

But it is okay to kill a poor even more defenseless plant?

Stop being hypocritical. Don't eat anything organic. You do know what organic means don't you?

I see it now.

[The Tyro]

defend the authors who share your political views (excepting the vile Micheal Moore), while in the same breath attacking republicans as racists and homophobes

"No need to dispute the facts when you can attack the man" I believe you said. I was hoping you would see the irony in your blanket attacks on republicans in the same thread as your indignation over my Moore/Vidal/Palast/Franken remarks... Unlike you, however, I will take my lumps for my ad-hominem attacks on Franken, Vidal, and Moore (I will not, however, retract those remarks... I do not consider any of those individuals to be serious, mainstream political commentators)

I am indeed judging these books by the company they keep. They seem to be popular amongst a group of people that like bombastic and over-the-top left-wing political spin. I heard "The Turner Diaries" was a good book, but I'm suspicious of a book that's popular with militia types, and I won't run out to buy it for precisely the same reason.

I'll keep my suspicions about Mr. Palast... could be my loss, but somehow I don't think so.

Re:I see it now.

[Zeinfeld]

"No need to dispute the facts when you can attack the man" I believe you said. I was hoping you would see the irony in your blanket attacks on republicans in the same thread as your indignation over my Moore/Vidal/Palast/Franken remarks...

Your attack was pure ad-hominem. The fact that people who buy Palast books buy books by certain left wing but still mainstream authors does not invalidate Palast in the slightest. It was pure guilt by association.

There is a big difference between an ad-hominem attack against a person and an ad-hominem attack against a political party. Ad hominem is argument against the man. It is a logical fallacy when evaluating facts, the occurrence of vote rigging in US politics is a well established fact, the fact that it continues is well documented.

A political party on the other hand is no more than a collection of individuals who campaign together and support each other. If Jessie Helms is a racist and the Republican party chooses to appoint him to be chair of the foreign relations committee the Republican party is endorsing Helm's racist views. If Bob Jones University is founded on the principals of anti-catholic and anti-black bigottry and the Republican candidate for President speaks there he is endorsing that bigottry.

I heard "The Turner Diaries" was a good book, but I'm suspicious of a book that's popular with militia types, and I won't run out to buy it for precisely the same reason.

It is pretty easy to find a synopsis of the book, the heros are a right wing militia that wage a terrorist campaign against the US government. Very few people would have heard about the Turner diaries outside that group and the law enforcement agencies policing their activities if Timothy McVeigh had not bombed the Oaklahoma federal building.

English is sexist against men! ...but it's ok

[V_drive]

ignorance of the gender neutral definitions of 'he' has been a particular annoyance for me. i gave the following response to a girl who once complained about how "sexist" the english language is:

curious about it, i once opened a dictionary and looked up two words: 'he' and 'man.' in both cases, i found that exactly half the definitions were gender specific and half were gender neutral.

if i were to say, "a doctor should be able to prescribe any drug he wishes" that makes no implication about the gender of the doctor. it is not sexist. to replace "he" with "he or she" is unnecessary because the context makes it obvious that gender neutrality is intended (besides, then we would fight about whether it should be "he or she" or "she or he"). to replace it with "she" (as i've seen done to show politically correctness) is also incorrect since some doctors are men. to replace it with "they" is simply grammatically incorrect, since "doctor" is singular.

after thinking about all of this, i started to wonder--why do men have to share our words, while women get their own? "woman" and "she" belong completely to women, but "man" and "he" have to be shared in some contexts. don't men deserve a pronoun of their own?

not only do men have to share their words, but women's words are bigger. "she" is 50% longer than "he." "woman" is 66% longer and has twice as many syllables as "man."

so, it is true that the language is sexist against men. however, as a man i'm okay with that. i understand that a language is just a standard and sexism is not implied by someone simply following the standard. i'm okay with sharing words like "congressmen" with women, rather than forcing them to invent a new word, "congressperson," just to make me feel better about having a word to myself.

...although the above speech shut her up in that instance, i think i made an enemy for life.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[greenrd]

Same here. I'm a vegan and I only talk about my ethical reasons for veganism if someone actually asks me about them. Which is quite often...

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[calnerd]

I thought cheese came from the moon. How do they get the cows up to the moon to make cheese? This is intriguing. I guess once the cows are at the moon, they don't have to worry about being so fat that they can't walk, cuz gravity there is less than on earth, so they won't weigh as much. I guess their legs would probably still break, because of osteoporosis, but at least that won't be our fault. You could still take their cheese and not feel bad for it.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[Mr. Slippery]

Vegetarians are usually quite happy to wear leather shoes, belts and coats etc. After all, the defitition of a vegitarian is just someone who doesn't eat meat.

Most ethical vegetarians (people who are vegetarian for ethical reasons, not vegetarians with ethics - as opposed to people who avoid meat for health or ecological reasons) avoid the use of leather. There are many in this category who are not vegan. (I need a Venn diagram here...) I was one for about seven years, before I learned about the factory farm conditions under which eggs and dairy products are produced. Indeed, because it was a slow process for me (this was the early 80s, there was much less information available then and I was all of twelve) I stopped using leather while I was still eating fish.

So seeing that the girl in the story called herself a vegitarian, such an observation would be perfectly valid.

Her speech made it clear that she was an ethical vegetarian. If she were were wearing leather, either:

• she doesn't understand the inconsistency
• she's not aware of the plentiful alternatives
• she's newly "converted" and is using old leather items until they wear out (quite common)
• they're not leather but synthetic

Re:You just need...

[�nertia]

Sir you demostrate the discrimination that I am discribing, you have turned gender into a tool for making causal inferances. Your a slave if you will to the language. (no pun intended)

BTW i'm male not female.

Kind regards

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[master0ne]

all i have to say is bravo, you have put the argument aganst vegitarinism that ive had in my mind all these years into words better than i could have :P

1 and 2

[chocolatetrumpet]

How about.. 1 and 2?

Ray Bradbury's ,too

[AkkarAnadyr]

Check the foreword to a recent addition of 'Fahrenheit 451'. He talks about people calling him to change/update the story to make it more PC!

Re:Ray Bradbury's ,too

[rice_burners_suck]

In other news, George Orwell's novel 1984 was banned because its contents were not politically correct. Orwell's use of the name Big Brother is not gender neutral and offends some obese people. Orwell's book is being recalled, and a court order has been issued to George Orwell to change the name to Thin Bisexual Sister.

Re:You just need...

[�nertia]

note the recurvie argument by cateogirisng you as SIR.... =-PPP

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[tmasman]

I think you should visit The MEATrix.com

You insensitive CLOD!

I am Moofious

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[togofspookware]

"I like meat. Meat Good. Ha ha ha. Poor plants." Like every vegetarian on the face of the planet hasn't heard that joke.

I got news for you, bub. Eating meat makes you a bad person. That's right. You are a bad human.

Plants don't have central nervous systems. Plants don't feel harm.

And unlike animals, plants are efficient, meaning that you won't be eating all the calories that that animal ate, and then all the calories in that animal. YOU are starving your fellow man.

How the frick is this a troll? Sorry to break it to you boys, but this's about the truest thing that's been said in this thread. :P

Re:Nazi drive Jew drive

[Desirsar]

I'm rather patial to Master/Bitch myself, any problems with that as a replacement? Pimp/Ho worked well for me also.

Re:Female/Male next? - New Reading list

[�nertia]

Can I make a suggestion. I'm not a supporter of psychoanalysis for one. I am however interested in how society has come to represent psychoanalysis, as it's terms pervade the ways which we understand the world...

I'm not going to bite your antisemitist conspiracy.

Go Read (M Billig, - Freudian Repression, 1999) It a discourse analytic view of freud's teachings. Michael Billigs arguemtns are about how the notions of psychoanalytic theory are constructed through talk. Hopefully you will find it enlightening.

Kind regards

Slavery a "minor issue" in Civil War?

[GeoGreg]

So if slavery wasn't an issue in the Civil War, why was this Constitutional amendment regulating slavery proposed by the "Virginia Peace Conference" in 1861? Or a similar amendment proposed in 1860? And here is a letter from a Virginian named John Cochran to his mother, lamenting the effects on the South if the Peace Conference amendment is adopted. He advocates revolution. An earlier letter from him lays out the States' Rights argument, framed largely in the context of slavery. It was not a "very minor political issue" for him.

Now, I found these original sources with a few minutes Googling. If this is a representative sample, it looks to me like both politicians and ordinary people saw the potential abolition of slavery as a motivating factor for secession.

Re:Slavery a "minor issue" in Civil War?

[AceM2]

No one said that slavery wasn't an issue. Slavery was just part of it however... I'm sure those measures were aimed at attempting to turn down the heat, but what you find is not definitive proof that slavery was the cause of the civil war.

If you think it was the cause of the civil war, I have a couple questions for you:

1) Why did the war start while slavery was still legal? Don't you think the south would have waited until their right to own slaves was being taken away if that was the only thing?

2) If slavery was the only dividing factor, why did it take Lincoln three years after the war began to set the slaves free? Not to mention the emancipation proclamation only spoke about slavery in the rebellious stats

Re:Slavery a "minor issue" in Civil War?

[GeoGreg]

The post I replied to said slavery was a "very minor political issue", whereas the information I found indicates that it was a major enough issue that at least 2 Consitutional amendments were proposed to deal with it, and Southerners were citing the possibility of abolition as reason to secede. Note that in my comment I didn't claim that the issue of slavery was the "only" reason the Southern states seceded, just that it wasn't a minor reason. My knowledge of the history of the area where I grew up (the Kansas-Missouri border) indicates that people were willing to fight to preserve and extend slavery. However, it's probably also true that many of the soldiers fighting the war (such as my 2 Union and 1 Confederate ancestors) fought more out of loyalty to their home state than for any particular feelings towards slavery.

Re:Slavery a "minor issue" in Civil War?

[GeoGreg]

Sorry for the double post, but I just found this document, the debate in the South Carolina Convention, which voted for secession (the first state to do so). They discuss whether slavery or tariffs are the issue. In the end, the declaration they adopted named issues surrounding slavery as the cause for secession.

Nonsense!

[Gorimek]

Mauretania has abolished slavery three times already.

Clearly, nothing can stop your endless complainaing!

Re:No Master/Slave? LOTR inspired

[Mr. Sketch]

I would propose Sauron/Orc.
In the case of many items controlled by one we just have one Sauron computer and lots of Orc computers.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[d34thm0nk3y]

"I love animals, they are made out of food!"

...now if only I could remember where I saw that

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[Mudd Chick]

>How the frick is this a troll? Sorry to break it to you boys, but this's about the truest thing that's been said in this thread. :P

Exactly how is it true? Starvation in the world as it is today is not a supply problem. We produce plenty of food. Hell, in America we pay farmers NOT to grow food, to keep prices up. Starvation is a distribution problem. How many people die of starvation in developed countries? By eating a steak you are not depriving someone who is starving of food, UNLESS that steak would have otherwise magically appeared in Africa.

I can at least understand the argument that the modern meat production industry is cruel to animals, but the argument that you are adding to world starvation is, I think, not supportable with the available evidence.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[d34thm0nk3y]

Humans, unaided by tools, could catch and eat an occasional small mammal, but that's about it. You couldn't even bite your way into larger animals.

Humans, unaided by tools, would have a pretty hard time farming too... Hunter/gatherers (you know, what we all used to do for a living) do that, they hunt and gather, tools or no....

But it takes a somewhat complex nervous system to be possessed of consciousness. I can wire a very simple circuit to respond to stimuli, but that's not sentience.

observe a chiken some time, really look into it's eyes. Then we can talk about sentience vs simple circuitry.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[d34thm0nk3y]

you have put the argument aganst vegitarinism that ive had in my mind all these years into words better than i could have

I find it the fact that people feel the need to argue against vegetarianism more strange than the act of vegetarianism itself. On the other hand, I do enjoy a good debate...

Re:That's all very well... Troll feeding....

[�nertia]

I agree with the equivilence label... However currently despite what you might think there is very little equivilence in terms of Pay/Employment oportunity/Social treatment (In terms of discrimination)... Thus while agreeing with your equivilency reformulation, I don't beleive that there is much evidence to support that it exists gender wise, and for that matter sexual orientation wise evenmore so.

I dub thee troll

[The Tyro]

I have to believe you are consciously sprinkling your posts with contradictions. I refuse to believe that you are not intelligent enough to note the following...

Ad hominem is latin, meaning literally "to the person." From websters: "marked by an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made." Rather than answer some of your opponents (republicans) contentions on race issues, you besmirch their collective character and call them all racists. Troll.

You would also reproach me for judging Palast by the company he keeps (I believe you said guilt by association.)... yet you would indict all republicans because they are in the same party with Jesse Helms. Troll.

You would judge the republican party by its fringe elements... yet you get upset when I judge a book by its intellectual and idealogical brethren? Troll.

And you have the audacity to preach to me about logical fallacies?

Bah.

Re:I dub thee troll

[Zeinfeld]

You would also reproach me for judging Palast by the company he keeps (I believe you said guilt by association.)... yet you would indict all republicans because they are in the same party with Jesse Helms. Troll.

It is completely different, Palast's 'association' with other liberals is entirely coincidental, people buy the same books.

Helms on the other hand was not only accepted by the Republican party, he was actively recruited, despite his known racist views. Likewise with Strom Thurmond. Both were given very high office in the Senate, and nobody else in the party ever saw fit to criticize or challenge their racist attitudes.

Trent Lott was tolerated as majority leader for years, despite his involvement in a rack of racist groups, his segregationist views he failed to disown and his admiration for Thurmond's explicitly racist presidential campaign. These facts were all known for years before they suddenly came to a head last year.

I also note the fact that even as you claim people like Lott (ex-majority leader), Ashcroft (Attorney General), Helms (ex-foreign relations chair) are part of the 'fringe' you don't seem able to condemn racism or homophobia while defending the party.

At the end of the day the GOP will be kneeling at the feet of Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell come the next election, despite their hate mongering (blaming gays for 9/11 being only one example). Meanwhile it is fairly certain that Bush will refuse to meet the log cabin republicans this time arround as well.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

Congratulations

[rjamestaylor]

You! Sir! Have won today's AWARD for the most CLUELESS post on Slashdot!
This award is reserved for the truly pathetic posters who argumentatively restate the parent post's point while appearing to be contradictory.

And do not think this is an easy award to win!

There are thousands of participants each day posting multiple posts in each article.
Usually, at any one time the award designation could shift to another worthy participant
BUT somedays there are the TRULY CLUELESS AND PATHETIC such as your OWN
that are so beyond the pale of idiocy that they deserve the MVP (Most Vapid Post) of the Day award.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[Mr. Slippery]

observe a chiken some time, really look into it's eyes.

When permitted to do so, chickens are capable of complex behavior that is suggestive of an internal experience. Obviously, in battery cages the potential for mental development is rather limited.

None you stale fuckwit...

[FatSean]

If these people are here legally, then god bless them. I dislike illegal immigrants of all races and nationalities. Follow the goddamn rules.

My guess is, if they are here legally, they have better jobs. A 'real' job requires reporting the employee's SSN to the gov't...illegals don't have this.

So...I can conclude that a person working for $2 an hour is here illegally. They should be deported.

You obviously have no grasp of reality, and just wanted to trot out some old redneck joke. Asshole.

Re:None you stale fuckwit...

[Zemran]

You still cannot grasp the original point. That is why I simply discount you as a redneck. I could have made a reasonable response to your comment but as it did not address mine and only seemed to spout the sort of rhetoric I would expect from someone with a pillow case on their head, I could not see the point.

The friend that I came across the border with was born and bred in the USA from American parents. There is no more 'legal' than that. He was badly treated because of the colour of his skin. If the person on the garage floor or digging the garden is illegal then that is for the police to deal with, not some fool to abuse. To say 'I'm sure they could leave whenever they wanted' is just what the guys with pillow cases said. These are human beings and deserve to be treated fairly. Arrogant fools like you that think that non-Americans are there to be abused are the ones that give America such a bad name abroad. Keeping the slave mentality alive without the shackles is not any different from making the blacks use a different side of the road and saying 'we have given them their freedom'. It is a lie. The blacks were not free until they had an equal right to live a free and equal life. Why did those rights bypass the Latinos?

I have a better grasp of reality than some fool that cannot even read what is written. And as for the abuse that you include in your post, you seem to really like the redneck look.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[reverse flow reactor]

I am not a vegetarian because I love animals. I am a vegetarian because I hate plants....

Crunch crunch crunch! yummm! Another brussel sprout gone! hahahaha!

In other news

[O.M.A.C.]

The term "Jumper" can no longer be used when referring to bridging points in a circuit, since it could cause self-destructive people to commit suicide by leaping from tall buildings.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[DeputySpade]

Great. Because nothing says "I take a firm stand on important issues" like wearing _fake_ leather to protest real leather.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[Mr. Slippery]

Because nothing says "I take a firm stand on important issues" like wearing _fake_ leather to protest real leather.

I'm not wearing the fake leather shoes to protest real leather, any more than I wear made-in-the-USA jeans to protest use of sweatshop labor. I'm doing it to avoid supporting certain behaviors.

I send the protest message with t-shirts and bumper stickers, occasional letters, et cetera. And with the lectures I get to deliver when someone says, "Hey, veggie boy, aren't those leather shoes?" (Or when the subject comes up in other conversation. :-) )

male and female ends

[Peripherus]

> What's next? Will we not be able to have male and female ends on our 1/4" audio cable for fear of offending the transgendered? How the hell am I supposed to shop for wires now?

I work in the RF Connector industry, and I've noticed that newer government (military) specifications don't use "male" and "female," but rather "pin contact" and "socket contact." The rest of the industry still uses male and female (for now).

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[LittleBigLui]

"Bath ware made sun and mon, Aither wit ther ouen light" from the 1300s

*looking at funny words*
I dind't konw slahsdot wsa aronud bcka tehn!

Re:webmaster - web weaver

[Anonymous Coward]

I think they should have renamed "webmaster" not because it's culturally insensitive, but because it sounds so fucking gay.

Minority rights with majority rule

[DarkOx]

Minority rights with majority rule, this is the concept upon which our democracy is based. Minorites have certain rights, these are clearly spelled out for them in a document we call "The Constitution" One of such rights is coved in the first amendment, the are allowed to whine, moan and complain all they wan't. The mojority however RULES and if we DON'T GIVE A FLYING F*** about what words they like or don't like then they have NO RIGHT to change how we speak. I for one will use words pairs like "master/slave", "male/female" , "Arab/terrorist" all I like regardless of who I offend, because if you are such a moron as to be offended by words used in a totally in-offensive context and fail to recognize that or you don't like generalization which ARE supported by legitimate statistics, then you are stupid. I her e would like to freely state I don't like stupid people and consider them less then regualar people, but do not proffer this fact as a reason to deny them their rights. I would now like to conclude my post with a prayer.

Lord have mery on the dumb ones, especially members of LA city council.

Sign me up

[Maxwell'sSilverLART]

If you can find a single white person who believes that, then I'll believe you.

Sign me up.

As a would-be airline pilot and white male, I'd happily trade places with a black female. If I did so, UPS would hire me with only 800 hours, instead of the ~3500 hours they list as a "competitive minimum," which only applies to white males (this from a close personal friend, who is a captain for UPS, and who met the black women in captain school). Or just about any instructor; a black flight instructor of mind got a job with under a thousand hours flying for the regionals, when other instructors of my acquaintence can't get a job with 2500 hours, to say nothing of the fact that the black one had little-to-no turbine time.

So, where do I sign?

Re:Sign me up

[idahogie]

So, where do I sign?

The AC already answered you. You can't just pick the Affirmative Action part and say, "Yeah, I'll take that." You get the whole enchilada. You get to grow up going to relatively poor schools, you get to have your resume ignored because your name sounds black, you get to wonder if that loan rejection was because of your skin, you get to be followed around by security in nice stores, you get to live with the fact that many people attribute your successes to lower standards (e.g., what you just did to that black pilot).

I'm just scratching the surface. I'm white, so I can't imagine the the extent of the hardships that are imposed on minorities in this country. But I'm honest enough to recognize that being born white is a big head-start.

Are you still willing to trade places?

I think you're missing the point

[Anonymous Coward]

That you also have to have all the other aspects of her life, such as being a marginalised and widely ignored member of society, being statistically less likely to hold a position of reponsibility, being statistically more likely to be a victim of crime, etc. etc. etc. etc.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[d34thm0nk3y]

hmm... I have had friends who raised chickens, those things are running on auto-pilot, trust me. They are truly stupid creatures. Cages started originally to keep other animals and people from stealing them. As long as you keep feeding them, the chickens will stay around on their own.

As far as vegetarianism goes I can see how people could have ethical problems with corporate-run farms. Pressure to feed our stupidly bloated population has led to certain liberties being taken as far as humanitarian treatment.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[Anonymous Coward]

Yet she's ordering something whose main ingredient is cheese.

Slavery for criminals: legal in the United States

[Anonymous Coward]

13th Amendment

Section 1.

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2.

Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

Passed by Congress January 31, 1865. Ratified December 6, 1865.

!3th Amendment at Cornell

Our time is near!

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a DREEEAM that one day ALLLL my Maxtor brothers and sisters will be free! I say to them: we will get there my fellow hard drives! I may not make it with you, but I want you to know tonight that we as a hardware will get to the promise land!

My response...

[dacarr]

We here at Chez Vrolet Secret Labs understand your need for cultural diversity, and we have adjusted our internal structures accordingly.

When selling computers to your governmental organization, we will refer to what were previously known as "master" and "slave" drives as the "john" and "whore" drives, respectively as to avoid offending those who may be offended by "master" and "slave".

Sincerely,
The Mgt.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[General Fault]

And the best part is that the same people that make the argument that eating meat is cruel are often the same people that believe that DNA research is immoral. If only we could create meat food without brains. Imagine, large warehouses of cows standing shoulder to shoulder layer upon layer stupidly waiting to be eaten. I wonder if that would satisfy them.

Why Master/Slave name?

[TheJavaGuy]

This whole thing sounds kind of silly. However, those who came up with the Master/Slave name should have thought about its implications. Why couldn't they use something like Primary/Secondary?

Re:Why Master/Slave name?

[kcb93x]

Primary/Secondary Controllers. (Controller 1/2 or 0/1 depending on manufacturer)

Why would we want Primary/Secondary used for two things very close to each other? Too much confusion.

Re:Why Master/Slave name?

[TheJavaGuy]

The point is, they should have chosen a different term rather than Master/Slave.

Oblig. Mark Ethen Smith reference

[rs79]

Is it just me or are we recycling 20 year old usenet posts?

30 pages on Gaussian Flux every day for 4 years.

[BigBlockMopar]

Wow, I think that is about the third time in this topic you make the assertion that arts subjects is about coloring books and crayons.

My arts elective in University required all students have a *purple* crayon in all classes and gave 15% of your course mark based on attendance. After the TAs passed out the course outlines and I saw that, it was pretty hard to take the course seriously.

Most (if not all) engineering/science/math/economics people can get their heads around the basic requirements and contents of any arts course - literature, composition, history, group dynamics, etc. On the other hand, I frequently looked at my timetable for the next term, looked up the course description, and was immediately lost after the title. Few arts students could even begin to imagine what "Engineering Mechanics 101: An Introduction to Force and Moment Vectors, Couple Moments, Static Equilibrium and Frames and Machines" was going to be all about. When I walked into that class, I knew what a force vector was, but everything else in that course description was Greek to me. (Note: Couple Moments, Frames and Machines aren't what you probably think they are.)

Lots of easy karma points from dittohead Slashdot moderators when you pick on strawmen.

Strawmen? Like from The Wizard of Oz?

You must be a very smart man in comparison, studying these incredibly difficult engineering subjects.

Heh. I like your tone of sarcasm. Very cute.

Engineering is difficult. Not so much the material as the quantity of material - most three-month-long terms involved 5 textbooks, at 500 pages each, on highly technical subjects (3 months = 90 days to cover 2,500 pages before the exams; about 30 pages of Gaussian flux or Adaptive Quadrature Techniques of Numerical Integration every day). Note that 30 pages of technical documentation - where every second or third line is an equation, function or relationship which must be understood if not memorized - takes a lot longer to read than 30 pages of Beowulf (not the computer cluster!) or a history textbook. It's continuously overwhelming.

No one cares if you go to class. No one cares if you write your tests on triple integrals or microwave theory using a purple crayon or (my personal favorite) a 2B 0.5mm mechanical pencil. You can't bullshit your way through an essay that you forgot to study for - you either know the material or you don't, and it's quantifiable and easy to prove in the marking scheme.

Unless it's a multiple choice test, in which case *all* your profs are well-schooled in the rules of probability and set tests where the correct answer is surrounded by seven to eleven other results you would have been likely to find if you forgot to use the product rule while differentiating for a gradient vector or some other equally stupid error. When you have a 1:8 to a 1:12 chance of guessing the correct answer - and often a penalty for an incorrect answer - you will not be able to bullshit your way through.

In short, Engineering - like all sciences, theoretical or applied - requires you to know what you're doing, not just to drag your hung-over ass and a purple crayon to class. Work ethic is the most important thing you can bring to the table.

So forgive me if I have a hard time taking an arts degree seriously. They simply haven't looked into Hell's gaping maw.

Great humor and timing. Would read again. A+++++++

[Anonymous Coward]

Your post, rated on eBay.

And what about the U.S. Postmaster?

[SmashPDX]

Has LA County banned mail from this guy? Will his employees be allowed to enter into county facilities? Will he have to change his title from Postmaster to Post-uh-Lead-Handler-Executive-Person? Huh? Wha?

Good language

[dtaczalski]

Or, to put it succintly, the only languages spoken "perfectly" are dead ones.
BR Or, to rephrase it, the only good language is dead language.

BIOS manufacturers aren't going to buy it

[Gary Destruction]

Could you imagine the reaction from Phoenix/Award and AMI? I could see them all saying,"Excuse me? You want us to what?" And don't forget about hard drive manuals and jumper pin settings on the drives. LA County council members need to get a reality check if they think they're going to use PC to alter a standard that's been around more than a decade. And I know Comptia isn't about to change the A+ Certification test over something as trivial as this.

Designed For LA County sticker

[Gary Destruction]

So instead of seeing a sticker on Computers that says,"Designed for Microsoft Windows" are we going to see a sticker that says,"Designed for LA County?"

Re:Female/Male next? Context

[SmashPDX]

Unfortunately these well known technical definitions, don't stay in thier technical context forever.

I am sorry... but if you are suggesting that somehow these technical definitions are going to "leak" into the populace and grow other meanings you have the equation backwards. In the English language the terms master and slave define a control relationship, with "master" being the controller and "slave" being the controlled. This is a historical relationship between the two terms that substantially predates the creation of anything called a "hard drive". The terms "master" and "slave" were not invented for high technology, and for that matter one might argue that their historical and current definitions have never been restricted to the practice of human slavery, in spite of their portrayal by those who see these terms as having only one joint meaning.

Consequently, it makes very little sense to argue that this high-tech defnition is going to somehow become some other kind of broader non-high-tech definition. It already HAS a broader, non-high-tech definition, that being the aforementioned control relationship. It CAME FROM a non-high-tech definition, and that definition is being applied in a high-tech context, in a highly accurate and precise manner. The usage cannot be construed as expansive, and in fact it is already subordinate to the base terms, which is easily understood when the technical use is viewed in context.

The biggest problem here is that people continue to grumble and gripe about the usage of words while paying no attention whatsoever to the context within which they are utilized, and they pick and choose which definitions "matter" (those they want to leverage to justify abolishing words) and those that "don't matter" (those whose significance they deem irrelevant, because they want the word abolished from the language due to the definitions that annoy them). Unfortunately, this appears to be a general social trend, at least in the US (I have no overseas experience), where I find it more and more difficult to have meaningful discussions with people because they increasingly listen and react to isolated words but can't seem to digest full sentences, much less paragraphs.

In the end the position of LA County is linguistically and rationally nonsensical, nothing more than the dressed-up emontionalism of those who-- as many have pointed out-- want to control language in order to create artificial comfort zones, without addressing the real issues that underpin discomfort on hot-button issues.

In a language filled with words that have multiple meanings, approaches like this are a bit of a problem. And even worse, get into something other than English where all or most nouns are defined as masculine or feminine. Unless you are willing to abolish the practice of having words with multiple definitions, and rewrite entire language bases so that everything is gender-neutral, you aren't going to get far. And if you think you can pull this off-- with five billion communicating individuals to re-educate into using the new and improved linguistic plan-- good luck.

In the end it needs to be recognized that common sense has a role to play in dealing with language just as it does in dealing with anything else. If one wishes to take things out of context, the meaning is going to be changed. If one doesn't like the out of context meaning, perhaps the real issue is that one shouldn't be taking it out of context in the first place. If one doesn't understand the significance of context, or doubts that context in fact has significance at all... well... there's not much debate left to have with that person. LA County needs to figure that out, and with any luck, the fact that every hard drive manufacturer on the planet probably won't start creating "LA County" versions of their drive labels will get them to figure out how brain-dead this idea of theirs is.

Or at least one can hope.

Re: California and the Ocean

[SmashPDX]

Up here in Oregon, maybe a year ago, there was a series of ads that ran for a local casino. The caption was "Luck Happens" and the graphic was a map of the western continental United States, basically from Utah/Nevada west. The map looked odd. And then I realized-- California wasn't on the map. Where it would have been was the Pacific Ocean.

A lot of people had a good laugh on that one (sorry to any offended Californians, that ad was danged funny).

Re:30 pages on Gaussian Flux every day for 4 years

[instarx]

This was a very long rant about how superior you are as a human being. However, all it points out is how limited you are in your perception of the world. You confuse technicality with importance, and mathematical difficulty with difficulty in finding meaningful understanding of ANY subject. For you, if it isn't a subject that can be quantified on a multiple choice test it is neither difficult nor important. That is almost beyond ignorance, as nothing could be further from reality. Understanding problems with answers that can be picked from a multiple choice tests (no matter how difficult the test) are trivial compared to understanding problems that don't have right or wrong answers and may not even have answers at all.

Your example of Beowolf being easy is classic self-delusion. It isn't READING 30 pages of Beowolf, it is understanding what it means to our culture and how it reflects on our beliefs. It helps one understand how people think, and knowing that is immeasurably more important than being able to calculate Gaussian flux (an ability with somewhat limited usefulness you have to admit). Of course all this is wasted on you, but maybe someone else will read this and see that there is more to the world than than can be quantified on your little multiple choice test, and what can't be is neither easy nor 'bullshit' (as you so elequently put it).

And by the way I have advanced degrees in environmental sciences and engineering.

What about BIND?

[Puppet Master]

If I'm not mistaken, my dns configuration has master and slave records...

So if I move to L.A. County, I'll have to find a new way to do my DNS.

Re:webmaster - web weaver

[lunaman]

On Pacifica Radio, I've heard the term "web maestro." I never realized why they did that until I read this discussion...

Of course, that raises the question: is it sufficient to just translate the terms "master" and "slave" to another language, which doesn't have the same semantic associations for politically-sensitive (and mostly foreign-language-ignorant) Americans?

Re:You just need...

[Anonymous Coward]

And you're denying genetics. Men and Women are different, you dolt. Live with it.

Stand up for our rights to Master/Slave our drives

[Goobah]

After reading this rediculous article, I decided to contact the L.A. County ISD with the following response:

"I recently read an article which references your organization, and how it has recently issued a statement requesting that all computer hardware manufacturers remove the term "Master/Slave" from their documentation and other materials.

The term Master/Slave to describe the primary and secondary drives has been around for years, almost since the creation of the PC itself. The term holds no derogatory meaning, and does not degrade any human being in any way.

What your proposed "solution" does, however, is set a precedence to increase the cost of computer equipment, forcing hardware manufacturers to rewrite not only manuals, but web sites, labels that are affixed to hard drives, and quite possibly having dies used to cast the casings for hard drives retooled.

I am not writing this because I am promoting racism, Sado-masochism, or anything other than a simple sanity check. It is in my opinion as an American and a human being that you have crossed the line of political correctness, and do so at the expense of the computer hardware industry, and the american public as a result.

Are you retarded?

[FatSean]

I mean, if the mexican guy is working as a laboror and sleeping on your garage floor...that's hardly slavery. He can quit whenever he likes, he chooses not to apparantly, as you've seen so much of it. He also does the manual labor...because whenever you've seen a manual laborer, it's a Mexican person. So, how is this racist? The guy is willing to do the job for cheap, whatever his motive. This is America...free market, all that. If that guy wanted more money he can quit that job and find another.

Trying to make this a race issue just shows that you have an axe to grind.

plonk.

I'm in complete agreeance with instarx

[filmsmith]

And if you'd care to read this thread, you'd understand that we're not alone. You obviously learned art from people with no passion and have had that lack of passion and respect bestowed upon you. ...that's a shame.

You're missing out a lot by pushing art out of your life and are coming off as pompous and arrogant without really understanding why. I would recommend that you review your ideals and explore, more thoroughly, the world around you but, this time, with a more open mind. Maybe you could make friends with an artist to push you in the right direction...

Just remember, we need each other. The artist can dream all he wants, but is lost if he has no knowledge of how to manifest his dreams, and the Engineer can design to his heart's conent, but he'll run out of things to design without an 'idea man' to give him new places to go.

fs

Re:You just need...

[�nertia]

I'm not denying genetics, I am however denying that the concepts of Feminine and Masculine are involved with genetics. These categorys are developed through social interaction and stereotypes during childhood. And through media. Read Ann, Weatherall(2002) Gender and Language for lots of neat studys with adults and children, demonstrating this.

Re:Female/Male next?- Seminal DEFN:

[Anonymous Coward]

A) Seminal 6 entries found for seminal. seminal ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sm-nl) adj.
1. Of, relating to, containing, or conveying semen or seed. 2. Of, relating to, or having the power to originate; creative. 3. Highly influential in an original way; constituting or providing a basis for further development: a seminal idea in the creation of a new theory. - Dictionary.com

B - Moron moron ( P ) Pronunciation Key (morn, mr-) n. 1. A stupid person; a dolt. 2. Psychology. A person of mild mental retardation having a mental age of from 7 to 12 years and generally having communication and social skills enabling some degree of academic or vocational education. The term belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive.
[From Greek mron, neuter of mros, stupid, foolish.]

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[Glock27]

Uh, you do realize that many of us vegetarians have non-leather shoes, belts, purses, jackets, etcetera? Indeed that there are companies (like this, this, and this) that specialize in the production of high-quality synthetic leather goods? That one can get synthetic leather Doc Martens, Birkenstocks, Nikes, and other well-known brands of footwear?

Uh, sure. What does that have to do with my comment?

I wasn't saying that all vegetarians do such things - but I can tell you that more than once I've been talking to someone, and the proud pronouncement is made - "I'm a vegetarian, I just can't stand the thought of eating those poor animals.". In each case, the person admitted that one or more articles of their clothing was leather.

Critical thinking is simply just not stressed enough in our society.

I simply thought that was the likely outcome of the story, based on experience. Crime, or not?

By the way, good job on being a gun-toting vegetarian - that's a combination you don't see every day. ;-)

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[bluGill]

As it was described to me. Yes it is sexist.

Though see some of the other comments, might not be true, but since there they was used for singular at one time, and isn't now, it seems a valid explination.

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[AyeRoxor!]

"What's wrong with licence? From the OED, 2nd ed,: "

Please don't cite a reference you don't understand.

If I see one more person saying something is proper simply because it appears in the OED, I will track them down, put them in the Clockwork Orange chair, and make them look at the goatse.cx man for 24 hours straight.

Items are in the OED simply for historical reference. "Ain't" is in the OED. The OED says that 'they' has been used as a plural. These are NOT ENDORSEMENTS OF SAID USAGE. It simply says the words were used/used in this manner. The OED is not a GRAMMAR REFERENCE.

Think of it this way: The OED could be used as a rosetta stone by an alien race in 1000 years, to deceipher our written works. But if they read MLA's Essentials of MLA Style, they would find that 'they' is always plural, and using "ain't" makes you look stupid.

Master / Slave Article..

[Anonymous Coward]

What's next ?

Male / Female ends on cables ?

The "Submit" button on websites ?

Too damn funny.. I don't think they realize exactly what they are starting here.. there's a lot of things in our society that can be viewed in an "offensive" manner if one so chooses to do so.

Shayla

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[legojenn]

"What's wrong with licence? From the OED, 2nd ed,: "

Please don't cite a reference you don't understand.

What's not to understand? The question at hand was the spelling of 'licence'. Please read up the thread to see that. Since we are not as enlightened as the French to the point of codifying what our language is, we rely on different interpretations of how words are spelled. In the UK and other countries, we spell the word licence. In the US, it is spelled license. I was not quoting from the OED to comment on the use of 'they' as plural, which is somewhat silly. As far as an alien race visiting us in 1000 years trying to decipher our language, they may just find that everything is DRMd and will write us off as all being illiterate .

In case that does not disuade our visitors, maybe you can leave them a little note saying that one version of the dictionary is not a grammar reference. Feel free to spell licence any way you see fit.

Re:My two cents

[Anonymous Coward]

Here here, language is not decided in the offices of M-W.com, but by those that use it. Yes, it takes a while for the written record to catch up, but I remember when ain't wasn't considered a word. The people have spoken and will continue to do so.

None are so blind

[The Tyro]

as those blinded by their ideology.

You, sir, are of the same intellectual stripe as all those racist and homophobic demagogues you claim to hate.

You would call all republicans racists and homophobes based on the actions of a few... you differ little from your basic Klansman; you just hate a different group than he does.

Look in the mirror... how does it feel? You're just wearing a "DEMOCRATS IN 2004!!" button instead of a hood.

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[AyeRoxor!]

"What's not to understand? The question at hand was the spelling of 'licence'."

And I posted a corrolary point.

Deal.

6 in Barcodes

[GeekDork]

O'Reilly HTML Pocket Reference: two codes on the back. 781565925793 and (6)3692092579(8)

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[legojenn]

Don't you mean corollary?

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[AyeRoxor!]

Well, it's kind of complex. At the time, I intended to write 'corollary', and misspelled it, much to my chagrin. However, upon immediate reflection, I realized that rather than corollary, I had intended to convey a tangent, or divergence; a kindred idea, rather than a consequence.

But thanks for keeping me sharp. :)

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[tuxedobob]

And the best part is that the same people that make the argument that eating meat is cruel are often the same people that believe that DNA research is immoral.

I don't think that's a safe statement. My guess is that the anti-meat-eaters are fewer in number.

For the love of all that's good and holy

[Anonymous Coward]

(Score:5, Insightful)
by tehdely (690619) * on 05:16 PM November 24th, 2003 (#7553251)
(http://metawire.org/~tehdely | Last Journal: 12:51 AM November 29th, 2003)
Funny that my first instinct was to check Snopes, and what do you know but that's the provided link. Shows how patently ridiculous this story seemed at first.

Hasn't this obsession with sanitizing speech become a total farce? What's next? Will we not be able to have male and female ends on our 1/4" audio cable for fear of offending the transgendered? How the hell am I supposed to shop for wires now?

This isn't new.

[Anonymous Coward]

(Score:5, Interesting)
by kaszeta (322161) on 06:08 PM November 24th, 2003 (#7553800)
(http://www.kaszeta.org/rich)
Shows how patently ridiculous this story seemed at first.

Strangely, I didn't thin this was a farce, since I've lived through exactly this nonsense once before.

The year was 1993, and I was working as an intern at Oak Ridge National Laboratory in their High Flux Isotope Reactor. While I was there we got visited by the Secretary of Energy (Hazel O'Leary) and her "Science Advisor" Jim Hall (who later went on to chair the NTSB). The tour was notable for two reasons:

1. Jim Hall made a comment about how he was surprised that spent nuclear fuel assemblies from the reactor looked almost exactly like the new ones (aside from the inner and outer assemblies fresh out of the reactor, which were still glowing), since he thought "they'd look all black, like burnt wood."
2. A week later we got an official memo from Jim Hall, mentioning that during the visit "Hazel was disturbed by the use of the phrase 'Master/Slave Manipulator'" and suggested that "we shouldn't use that phrase anymore." I've still got a copy of this memo somewhere (along with the "radioactive frog" memo of some notoriety), if I find it I'll post a link to a scan as a followup.

Much lunchtime discussion over the next week resulted in a variety of alternative terminologies, including "master/bitch", "pimp/hoe", and "indentured servant." The last of these actually made it into some drawings, and the Powers That Be were not amused.

So no, I'm not surprised. Not one bit.

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[Paradise Pete]

I love it when people "correct" others' usage wrongly.

That would be "wrongly correct others' usage."

Re:Singular They - Insightful my ass

[Anonymous Coward]

If anyone has an explanation for this, perhaps he could let me know? 3428.

Your humor is too subtle for slashdot. You have to append "3428 now because ya see, I had to flip another coin for that last sentence, and since there's a he in it, it must have come up heads again."

Losers, The Stars and Bars & LA Sex Shops

[Sensitive Claude]

First of all, the civil war was more about taxes than slavery. The idea that the civil war was fought to free the slaves is Politically Correct bullshit.

When the Stars and Bars are raised, most know that there will be racist overtones ascribed by some

Unfortunately, this also includes some of the people who fly the stars and bars. Do we need to be sensitive to them too? Or should we recognize the stars and bars for what it really is. A symbol of the Confederacy, and the fact that they got their asses kicked! They were the losers, and when you fly that flag all you are saying is "Look at me! I'm a loser!" So lets get over the PC bullshit, leave behind the victim mentality and no longer look at the stars and bars as a symbol of oppression, but a symbol of losers.

"Loser! Loser!"

Or would that be insensitive? :)

But then "The South" were victims too. Victims of taxation, and victims of economics. Rascisim is just a red hering for poor white trash to make them feel better about themselves, rather than feeling like victims or losers.

And what does all this have to do wyyyith LA Sex shops anyway? And is this about Los Angelas or Louisiana? I'm hungry. I could sure go for some fried catfish and hushpuppies right now. But I like rice with my fish too. Whatever.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[BigBlockMopar]

I said: "You will put out meat pizzas, right? I am a carnivore and I believe it is unethical to kill and eat defenseless little plants which are rooted in the ground and are unable to put up any fight at all against human harvestors. Animals at least have a chance to escape or mount a defense."

That was beautiful!

There's a recent school of thought that some plants emit chemicals when injured; these chemicals serve as signals to other plants. I think it was a species of evergreen - pine or something. If the plant senses injury, isn't that pain?

One way or another, it sucks being a part of the food chain. However, it's stupid to pretend that we're not omnivorous - there's a reason we have incisors! So I like to fsck with them.

I still have my PETA t-shirt from school days. "PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals". Used to have the pop-culturally correct vegan types screaming and yelling at me in the hallways, calling me a murderer.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[BigBlockMopar]

I was at a local dinner with my vegiterian girl friend at the time and I ended up ordering a hamburger while she got a grilled cheese sandwich. I then had to sit through a 10 minute lecture on how meat is processed and killed and that I was a horrible person for eating meat.

That reminds me of the Family Guy episode where the Grim Reaper went out for coffee with the girl from the pet shop and ended up listening to her:

"You know why I like animals? They don't have wars. War is a human invention."

"What are you talking about? Animals fight all the time!"

"Not with nuclear arms! You can't hug your children with nuclear arms!"

Solves the problem, then turns to waitress: "Check, please!"

I hope, at the very least, you dumped her after that clear display that your offspring wouldn't benefit intellectually from having their mother's defective genes.

Re:BigBlockMopar in University...Similar event

[rjamestaylor]

Thanks. The only reason I didn't say "omnivore" was to emphasize the stupidity of herbavore humanity. Of course we need herbs -- wheat bread to soak up the gravy, potatoes to complement the steak, cereal to accompany the milk, eggs and bacon...

Ever since man needed a Redeemer, he's been eating meat. Yum.