If ping is disabled on the router, then it wouldn't matter if he was pinging from the command line and not the router.
The router is what route's the 'ping' packets, also known as ICMP echo & ICMP reply packets. Now if these are blocked at the router, then all you can ping is machines on the same subnet, unless ping is also disabled on the switch.
Basically if the conduit that goes from one network to another disables this specific type of protocol, then it will not work. It's that simple.
That's what is really fucked up about being an 'administrator'.
I can't think of many jobs where the only time people know you exist is when shit doesn't work the way they think it should.
We are just seen as the bane of other peoples existance! Most people just don't know enough to be in the driver seat so to speak, and when there is a bump in the road it is the driver who gets the blame. What the fuck is up with that?
> That said any system administrator who tells you "it's only two weeks worth of work" under any circumstance beside an act of god(there is no reason you shouldn't be able to get your data back but you can't) should be canned and even under the act of god circumstances they should be apologetic.
I totally agree with this statement, however I must point out that any Developer who doesn't perform a check in with their source repository in two weeks is just asking for it!
It's stupid shit like that, had he checked into the repository, the switch over in profiles would have been transparent. This guy is not keeping with his part of the job doing simple things such as checking code in, and he wants root on all boxes?
Leaving the code in his profile was laziness in it's purest form, imagine the shit code this fuck would be writing if he didn't have to make sure that it does't need to run as root. Shit would never get past QA if we didn't keep track of the changes made to the system to keep them going. Do you think a developer would remember that he needs this user acct to have access to that directory in order for the code to work right? Hell no, just run it as root. It's easier.
> what you say is true, but missed the point entirly. To address your point, yes, I shouldn't have to change the clock on my development PC, but the fact is it was wrong, and so I wanted to correct it (I can also think of many other legitimate reasons why I would want to change the clock on my PC).
Yes, but you see if you did change it you would have issues with your kerberos tickets and may have issues authenticating or grabbing shit from the domain.
Then who would you call? The PC Admin. Why? Because you changed the clock. What would you say when he asked if you changed anything? Nothing. How many hours would he spend dealing with getting your machine re-authenticating with Active Directory? More than he should have needed to.
Something as simple as changing the clock can fuck with things that most developers don't know about. Things may look simple from a developers point of view, but being a system administrator is a lot harder than may appear.
Offshoring isn't a word I have heard before, I have heard offshore outsourcing, which is probably what was meant.
See outsourcing is when they send the job outside of the company to be done by some other company or division.
Offshore outsourcing is when they send it to a third world country, this is like when you call a tech support line and you get a 'Bob Brown' with an accept reminiscent of the 7-11.
> then we win! we will have no money thrown into development. YAY IDIOTS!
Linux was doing just fine before RedHat came out. RedHat is not the only one developing for Linux. IBM is still pumping mad cash, so are many other companies. SuSE/Novell, Cisco, IBM, AMD, Intel, OSDL, etc are all developing linux into a bigger and badder platform every day. You are very ignorant of Linux if you believe that RedHat == Linux.
A company that turns it's back on the majority of their userbase deserves to die a quick and painful death. RedHat has done quite a bit for the community, but I mean they turned their back on even the certified RedHat Admin's. Even Microsoft doesn't have the balls to drop the relevence of a certification until after the new one has gained major ground. MCSE for NT4 was around still after 2000 was available. Once you piss off the Administrators of your software, you're going to be in a world of hurt.
Although this is standard RHEL WS, they do not do the five year thing on RHEL for EDU.
If you purchase a license for $25, then you have to then upgrade when RHEL 3.1 or RHEL 4 or whatever comes out. Probably for the same price, but migrating all over again.
Standard Edition costs a lot more, $799. That's the one that comes with support.
I think $349 is a bit excessive, especially considering the large mirroring that goes on for RedHat from many Edu/Gov sites.
RedHat could discontinue access to ftp.redhat.com for all but the larger mirrors and have everyone (paying or not) be able to get their updates from more than one distribution point.
I imagine Whitebox or Caosity will probably be used more and more. As this happens, RedHat will become largely irrelevant. May not want to run an Oracle box on Whitebox, but for large web servers, cluster farms, and other such systems it'd probably be a great and competitive alternative that will grow.
> Re-compiling it or re-packaging does not bring the added value you get for that 349 USD or so.
Actually the $349 gets you the following:
# Easy ISOs: OS, Source, and Documentation ISO Images # Red Hat Network Update Module Service 1-year # Quarterly OS Updates # Available via download only
If SCO's suit gets dismissed, I doubt that IBM would nessecarily drop their countersuit.
IBM has invested way too much in IBM to leave SCO to their word that they won't pull this bullshit again. They will probably kill SCO off, they've killed smaller companies off for much less offenses than what SCO has done.
> You know, the parent post ISN'T offtopic; it's a funny and relevant paraphrasing of a South Park bit about irrational defense of legal claims.
I get the joke, and I heard the chewbacca defense on South Park. I personally just think it's not funny. It wasn't funny on South Park, and it gets stupider everytime I see it posted on Slashdot.
> so an administrator in winxp or 2k can't access some parts of the operating system?
With Windows Administrator you are prevented from deleting files that are open or running, this is not a limitation of SYSTEM. A SYSTEM privelege level would be able to delete most everything.
> linux can be more secure than windows in that there are very few, if not zero, viruses that cause major problems. the operating system itself is far more secure.
That is because most Linux users have enough sense not to run as root, at worse the user would just lose their homedir and not their entire system.
> the general software that one would use is generally more secure.
More secure is not bulletproof. Even Mozilla has had scripting problems that could lead to execution of files from the net. I assure you that execution of 'rm -rf' as root would be much worse than most commands that you could do in windows. Hell they don't even have a deltree anymore.
> your wrapper suggestion would definitely be much easier, but does osx remove root priviledges once they are no longer needed or does entering the password leave them enabled?
OS X removes the privs once it is done. I believe this is the way to go in that most people do NOT need to be root 24/7.
> install something and you're root until you log off, which could allow you to do all sorts of damage.
Unless I make all user writable permissions mount as noexec, I wouldn't need to be root to install anything. I meant more along the lines of modifying major configuration changes.
Re:So wait
on
AOL's $299 PC
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
> I guess what I'm talking about are OPTIONS. No, Lindows won't be for everyone either. OTOH, maybe someone would like to have a computer cost $199 instead of $299 and be willing to learn.
It wouldn't be that cheap even without XP. Buying XP as an OEM entitles you to huge discounts, I am positive AOL isn't paying retail for XP. The Walmart PC's aren't even that cheap after Monitor/Printer and they have less ram and cpu speed.
> And what's the big dealio about Lindows defaulting root for the primary user? So what? So does XP! This can now be changed in Lindows 4.0 just as easily as creating a user in XP. Problem solved.
The big deal is that Lindows defaulting to root is worse than XP defaulting to Administrator. Windows "Administrator" is not the same as root on Linux. "System" on Windows is probably closer.
It doesn't take much, especially with all the underlying scriptable languages, to write a quick shell script to own computers. There have been bugs in Mozilla where you can execute stuff remotely, had there been a large installed base of Lindows I assure you that would be much worse of a problem than what went on with a lot of Microsoft Trojans. A user level DDoS would not be able to generate packets nearly as crazy as a root level DDoS.
In addition, being a regular user protects the user from themselves. Most people aren't capable of being an Administrator and the system should recognize that. What's wrong with using a wrapper that asks for the root password, which MUST be set during install, whenever you need root priveleges. It works for Mac OS X.
Linux w/ AOL
on
AOL's $299 PC
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
I have before, it's not too hard at all.
In fact there is a small tutorial on how to connect to AOL with Linux.
I wonder if this offer is valid with AOL Broadband, that way you could be on Broadband, and still have a cheap PC.
If I download and distribute RedHat's built packages then I am in violation of the license for which RedHat gave me for the use of their Logo's and iso9660 image.
This is why all the sold versions of RedHat that weren't official had funny names, like Pink Tie Linux, etc.
I'm surprised there hasn't been much info in the way of RedHat Enterprise Rebuild Projects. There is both a mailing list and a few projects that have succeeded.
http://www.whiteboxlinux.org/ was the first freely distributable RedHat Enterprise 3.0 Rebuild http://www.caosity.net/ was the second project to finish and distribute.
The mailing list archive is @ http://www.mail-archive.com/rhel-rebuild-l@uibk.ac.at/
Frankly, all it takes is a quick script to download, rpmbuild --rebuild updatepkg.src.rpm and install. I would recommend against doing this on machines that will be running Oracle or what not, but for most uses, this is an awesome approach the likes of which is impossible with proprietary software.
I don't know about this specific setup, but it is standard operating procedure to set up a bastion (read hardened) host that just runs syslog and nothing else for the purpose of logging what goes on in a central location.
In addition, they can just rsync the portage stored on that box to another to see if any changes were made.
Yes because all these new cars will have an ubber secret 802.11g card built in for the purpose of spreading virii!
I'd be more worried about Microsoft distributing a fucked up version of their CarOS CE. They have been known to press CD's with Warez Group.nfo files, Virii and other such goofs.
Slashdot Mirror
Ok let me break this down a little further.
If ping is disabled on the router, then it wouldn't matter if he was pinging from the command line and not the router.
The router is what route's the 'ping' packets, also known as ICMP echo & ICMP reply packets. Now if these are blocked at the router, then all you can ping is machines on the same subnet, unless ping is also disabled on the switch.
Basically if the conduit that goes from one network to another disables this specific type of protocol, then it will not work. It's that simple.
That's what is really fucked up about being an 'administrator'.
I can't think of many jobs where the only time people know you exist is when shit doesn't work the way they think it should.
We are just seen as the bane of other peoples existance! Most people just don't know enough to be in the driver seat so to speak, and when there is a bump in the road it is the driver who gets the blame. What the fuck is up with that?
> That said any system administrator who tells you "it's only two weeks worth of work" under any circumstance beside an act of god(there is no reason you shouldn't be able to get your data back but you can't) should be canned and even under the act of god circumstances they should be apologetic.
I totally agree with this statement, however I must point out that any Developer who doesn't perform a check in with their source repository in two weeks is just asking for it!
It's stupid shit like that, had he checked into the repository, the switch over in profiles would have been transparent. This guy is not keeping with his part of the job doing simple things such as checking code in, and he wants root on all boxes?
Leaving the code in his profile was laziness in it's purest form, imagine the shit code this fuck would be writing if he didn't have to make sure that it does't need to run as root. Shit would never get past QA if we didn't keep track of the changes made to the system to keep them going. Do you think a developer would remember that he needs this user acct to have access to that directory in order for the code to work right? Hell no, just run it as root. It's easier.
> what you say is true, but missed the point entirly. To address your point, yes, I shouldn't have to change the clock on my development PC, but the fact is it was wrong, and so I wanted to correct it (I can also think of many other legitimate reasons why I would want to change the clock on my PC).
Yes, but you see if you did change it you would have issues with your kerberos tickets and may have issues authenticating or grabbing shit from the domain.
Then who would you call? The PC Admin.
Why? Because you changed the clock.
What would you say when he asked if you changed anything? Nothing.
How many hours would he spend dealing with getting your machine re-authenticating with Active Directory? More than he should have needed to.
Something as simple as changing the clock can fuck with things that most developers don't know about. Things may look simple from a developers point of view, but being a system administrator is a lot harder than may appear.
Offshoring isn't a word I have heard before, I have heard offshore outsourcing, which is probably what was meant.
See outsourcing is when they send the job outside of the company to be done by some other company or division.
Offshore outsourcing is when they send it to a third world country, this is like when you call a tech support line and you get a 'Bob Brown' with an accept reminiscent of the 7-11.
more specifically the developer the parent wrote this about!
He mentioned it three times that ping was disabled on the router. Public Registrar or not, the developer would not be able to ping the ftp server.
Justin Is That You?
> then we win! we will have no money thrown into development. YAY IDIOTS!
Linux was doing just fine before RedHat came out. RedHat is not the only one developing for Linux. IBM is still pumping mad cash, so are many other companies. SuSE/Novell, Cisco, IBM, AMD, Intel, OSDL, etc are all developing linux into a bigger and badder platform every day. You are very ignorant of Linux if you believe that RedHat == Linux.
A company that turns it's back on the majority of their userbase deserves to die a quick and painful death. RedHat has done quite a bit for the community, but I mean they turned their back on even the certified RedHat Admin's. Even Microsoft doesn't have the balls to drop the relevence of a certification until after the new one has gained major ground. MCSE for NT4 was around still after 2000 was available. Once you piss off the Administrators of your software, you're going to be in a world of hurt.
Although this is standard RHEL WS, they do not do the five year thing on RHEL for EDU.
If you purchase a license for $25, then you have to then upgrade when RHEL 3.1 or RHEL 4 or whatever comes out. Probably for the same price, but migrating all over again.
The price of Basic Edition is $349
> * Available with Standard Edition support.
Standard Edition costs a lot more, $799. That's the one that comes with support.
I think $349 is a bit excessive, especially considering the large mirroring that goes on for RedHat from many Edu/Gov sites.
RedHat could discontinue access to ftp.redhat.com for all but the larger mirrors and have everyone (paying or not) be able to get their updates from more than one distribution point.
I imagine Whitebox or Caosity will probably be used more and more. As this happens, RedHat will become largely irrelevant. May not want to run an Oracle box on Whitebox, but for large web servers, cluster farms, and other such systems it'd probably be a great and competitive alternative that will grow.
> Re-compiling it or re-packaging does not bring the added value you get for that 349 USD or so.
Actually the $349 gets you the following:
# Easy ISOs: OS, Source, and Documentation ISO Images
# Red Hat Network Update Module Service 1-year
# Quarterly OS Updates
# Available via download only
As quoted from here!
For that you can get Whitebox Linux for free.
If SCO's suit gets dismissed, I doubt that IBM would nessecarily drop their countersuit.
IBM has invested way too much in IBM to leave SCO to their word that they won't pull this bullshit again. They will probably kill SCO off, they've killed smaller companies off for much less offenses than what SCO has done.
> You know, the parent post ISN'T offtopic; it's a funny and relevant paraphrasing of a South Park bit about irrational defense of legal claims.
I get the joke, and I heard the chewbacca defense on South Park. I personally just think it's not funny. It wasn't funny on South Park, and it gets stupider everytime I see it posted on Slashdot.
Sorry, but somebody had to say it.
> so an administrator in winxp or 2k can't access some parts of the operating system?
With Windows Administrator you are prevented from deleting files that are open or running, this is not a limitation of SYSTEM. A SYSTEM privelege level would be able to delete most everything.
> linux can be more secure than windows in that there are very few, if not zero, viruses that cause major problems. the operating system itself is far more secure.
That is because most Linux users have enough sense not to run as root, at worse the user would just lose their homedir and not their entire system.
> the general software that one would use is generally more secure.
More secure is not bulletproof. Even Mozilla has had scripting problems that could lead to execution of files from the net. I assure you that execution of 'rm -rf' as root would be much worse than most commands that you could do in windows. Hell they don't even have a deltree anymore.
> your wrapper suggestion would definitely be much easier, but does osx remove root priviledges once they are no longer needed or does entering the password leave them enabled?
OS X removes the privs once it is done. I believe this is the way to go in that most people do NOT need to be root 24/7.
> install something and you're root until you log off, which could allow you to do all sorts of damage.
Unless I make all user writable permissions mount as noexec, I wouldn't need to be root to install anything. I meant more along the lines of modifying major configuration changes.
> I guess what I'm talking about are OPTIONS. No, Lindows won't be for everyone either. OTOH, maybe someone would like to have a computer cost $199 instead of $299 and be willing to learn.
It wouldn't be that cheap even without XP. Buying XP as an OEM entitles you to huge discounts, I am positive AOL isn't paying retail for XP. The Walmart PC's aren't even that cheap after Monitor/Printer and they have less ram and cpu speed.
> And what's the big dealio about Lindows defaulting root for the primary user? So what? So does XP! This can now be changed in Lindows 4.0 just as easily as creating a user in XP. Problem solved.
The big deal is that Lindows defaulting to root is worse than XP defaulting to Administrator. Windows "Administrator" is not the same as root on Linux. "System" on Windows is probably closer.
It doesn't take much, especially with all the underlying scriptable languages, to write a quick shell script to own computers. There have been bugs in Mozilla where you can execute stuff remotely, had there been a large installed base of Lindows I assure you that would be much worse of a problem than what went on with a lot of Microsoft Trojans. A user level DDoS would not be able to generate packets nearly as crazy as a root level DDoS.
In addition, being a regular user protects the user from themselves. Most people aren't capable of being an Administrator and the system should recognize that. What's wrong with using a wrapper that asks for the root password, which MUST be set during install, whenever you need root priveleges. It works for Mac OS X.
I have before, it's not too hard at all.
In fact there is a small tutorial on how to connect to AOL with Linux.
I wonder if this offer is valid with AOL Broadband, that way you could be on Broadband, and still have a cheap PC.
Primary and Secondary denote the channel they are on, you mean HD as Master and CDROM as Slave.
Fuck whatever L.A. says, I'm not going to start calling my hard drive primary drive on the primary controller when I can say it all in Primary Master.
If I download and distribute RedHat's built packages then I am in violation of the license for which RedHat gave me for the use of their Logo's and iso9660 image.
This is why all the sold versions of RedHat that weren't official had funny names, like Pink Tie Linux, etc.
I'm surprised there hasn't been much info in the way of RedHat Enterprise Rebuild Projects. There is both a mailing list and a few projects that have succeeded.
c .at/
http://www.whiteboxlinux.org/ was the first freely distributable RedHat Enterprise 3.0 Rebuild
http://www.caosity.net/ was the second project to finish and distribute.
The mailing list archive is @ http://www.mail-archive.com/rhel-rebuild-l@uibk.a
Frankly, all it takes is a quick script to download, rpmbuild --rebuild updatepkg.src.rpm and install. I would recommend against doing this on machines that will be running Oracle or what not, but for most uses, this is an awesome approach the likes of which is impossible with proprietary software.
I don't know about this specific setup, but it is standard operating procedure to set up a bastion (read hardened) host that just runs syslog and nothing else for the purpose of logging what goes on in a central location.
In addition, they can just rsync the portage stored on that box to another to see if any changes were made.
Yes because all these new cars will have an ubber secret 802.11g card built in for the purpose of spreading virii!
.nfo files, Virii and other such goofs.
I'd be more worried about Microsoft distributing a fucked up version of their CarOS CE. They have been known to press CD's with Warez Group
It said sniffed, not sniffed and cracked via brute force
oval is too close to ovum, which comes from the ovaries and could be percieved as a pussy thus oval would not be a good replacement for zero.
While we are at it, let's replace male/female connectors with cock/cunt connectors!
Ooh and don't forget wap's, let's rename those before the Italians start complaining too.
I can't believe how mentally handicapped this p.c. bullshit gets!
> black people have every reason to be pissed about it.
Black people aren't the only ones who have been slaves.