Ultimately MS didn't totally succeed however, because Java vendors like IBM and BEA were able to establish strong footholds in the applicaiton server markets even with Netscape eliminated.
Actually they had succeeded. Sun sued. Remember Microsoft had bastardized Java big time and was no longer compatible with the shipping Java JVM.
After the suit and major security problems with the Microsoft JVM it is now into round 2. Only time will tell what will happen in this round, however in the first round Microsoft definitely won!
Microsoft's income based on IE is negligible if not negative.
Bullshit! MSN makes quite a bit of money. IE uses MSN as the default search engine. The ads alone bring in quite a bit of revenue, otherwise Google wouldn't have bought a stake in AOL and had let AOL switch to MSN search technology.
That default earns them a lot of money in advertising. In addition it sells their technology, such as.Net dev tools and what not.
It costs them absolutely nothing for Dell to preinstall Firefox; the only cost is altering the Windows Update site to allow for both browsers--which they're doing anyway.
Microsoft stated that they would allow Firefox to browse and download files from Microsoft.com, this means that it will use the Windows Media Plugin to run it's GenuineCheck test. They have not stated that they will support Firefox on WindowsUpdate. Truth be told that would be a bad thing, since it would mean giving Firefox way more power to alter the underlying OS.
Eventually, MS might reach a deal with the Mozilla Foundation to bundle Firefox with Windows, saving them the expense of maintaining IE. Then everyone wins--the users get a better browser and a more secure OS; Microsoft's reputation improves all around; Firefox spreads further; and website designers get redesign their sites to support standards and nix ActiveX controls.
This will never happen. They have revitalized the IE product and will not drop it as long as competition is available. The web is quickly becoming more powerful (think AJAX) and Microsoft will not allow a cross platform browser take the lead on that. Then it means users can switch easier between platforms.
Besides the Mozilla Foundation makes the majority of its money from the integrated Google search. Microsoft will not help what it considers an enemys friend.
The DMCA makes it illegal to circumvwent the protection.
There is an exception for compatibility. For example Asterisk PBX has a reverse engineered Skinny protocol, this is ok because it is done for compatibility. If this boot loader is used for running custom code on a personal x-box this would not be illegal even under the DMCA.
Copyright infringement is still illegal on top of that. Creating/using DeCSS violates the DMCA, but copying the DVD is copyright infringment.
Copying the DVD is illegal but not a prosecutable offense. The Fair Use doctrine makes personal copies legal. Downloading an image from BitTorrent or other things would be illegal.
DeCSS violates the DMCA. Before the DMCA it was still illegal because it stole decryption keys from the DVDA (not to be confused with double vagina, double anal). Although I believe that was only protected via trade secret, so it may no longer be elgible for protection at this point now that it is not a secret.
The DMCA is "evil", but just because people don't protect something technologically doesn't mean you should have the right to copy it willy nilly.
I disagree. You have the right to copy your personal stuff nilly willy for personal use. You do not have the right to copy other peoples stuff nilly willy.
IANAL, but I thought Criminal Lawsuits determined whether the defendant was Guilty or Innocent. I thought Civil Lawsuits determined whether someone was Liable or Not Liable. . .
Services only get better when free enterpise rules. It is expensive to keep up these networks. Congress shouldn't be allowed to regulate the internet.
Then they better fork over all the Gov subsidies and tax breaks that they have been getting over the years. Remember these guys were paid money by the Gov to make and keep these networks going. They are a Gov Sponsored Monopoly, as such they are using OUR money to build infrastructure for US. If they want free enterprise rules, they need to pay US back for OUR money!!!
We can't have it both ways (regulation and no regulation). Look what happened to the cost of long distance when congress stopped regulating the telephones here...
As I recall the cost seriously inflated, VoIP came out, and deflated. In otherwords they were doing what is called price fixing. If they had all conspired to do it, they would have been in violation of a few federal statutes.
This is inconsistent with their refusal to take OS X when it was offered to them; if that wasn't ego-driven, then I don't know what that means.
I thought their goal was to spread technology to the underprivileged third world. The best way to do that is to use something that has a license which permits redistribution. Doing that with a closed OS, whose license can be revoked, is a bad idea. We all know Steve is a megalomaniac only on par with Larry McVoy, and we all remember how the BitKeeper incident went down . . .
The name Rhapsody bothers me, everytime I hear it I think it's gonna be something about Apple's Rhadsody, Mac OS X's daddy, seriously, they should pick another name..
I always think of Wayne and Garth singin along to Bohemian Rhapsody in the car. . .
Are you being stupid on purpose? You admit to saying you paid for it, you just didn't have to pay extra. You "bought an iBook and it came with a program called 'DVD Player.app' which plays DVD's. [you] didn't have to pay extra. "
You just made my point for me. Play semantecs all you want, but my OS came with a DVD player built in, at no cost to me.
The GP poster was obviously talking about how in Windows. OSX comes with a DVD player. Stop being a zealot.
Why don't you offer it as a download if it is free?
Because I'm not a software pirate. Not all free software gives the user the right to distribute. Look at Sun's Java. Why isn't it a part of any modern distro? Because only Sun can distribute it.
You purchased the I-Book, which came with OSX. So you purchased OSX. OSX came bundled with a DVD-Player. Apples pays a licensing fee in order to bundle the DVD-Player with OSX. Therefore, by purchasing an I-Book, you purchased OSX. By purchasing OSX, you purchased the DVD-Player software. Otherwise, please find me the link to the DVD-player's site with the free download.
It was bundled for free. Play semantics all you want but there was no line item for DVD Player. It was bundled with OSX. How much did this extra bundle cost me? Nothing. Why? Because it was free. Nevermind that Apple paid the DVD Consortium for a license on my behalf. I didn't pay for it.
We were talking free (beer) software, not free (speech) software. There is a difference, I know it. Perhaps you don't . . .
All Commercial operating systems bundle software that they have licensed and pay royalties on for every copy of the operating system that is purchased. Free Linux distributions (and possibly some of the paid distro's too...) do not bundle commercially licensed software with the OS, because there are licenses, licensing fees, and royalties that would have to be paid for every copy of the distribution that is in use.
Indeed. All I am saying is that the main poster, to which I responded, had stated that you couldn't get an OS with a DVD player for free. Meaning that everyone had to purchase a DVD Playing Software for the OS of their choice. I merely stated that mine came with one that didn't need to be purchased. It came included. It didn't cost me anything. It was free. Get it!
I assume they would want to use some form of QoS to control traffic. However there would be a few problems that would arise from this. Let's say for instance Yahoo uses a seperate backbone from Google. Would this ISP then force Google traffic to slowdown? Or how about if Yahoo has more hops than Google? There are so many factors that affect Internet traffic that for an ISP to fully control them would be quite difficult. On most high-bandwidth ISPs where links hardly get clogged, one would certainly have to force low priority sites to slowdown.
It will basically work like this:
1. Yahoo! pays Bellsouth for "faster access" 2. Bellsouth slows down the competition (Google and MSN) using QoS 3. ??? 4. Profit!!!
This will only work because most consumers of DSL don't care enough about these bad practices to realize what's going on.
Sounds like you paid quite a bit for it to me. The MPAA got their cut already from Apple, if you could download OSX legally and without payment, it would not come with a DVD player.
The GP poster said "There are no free legal DVD players ON ANY OS.". I didn't pay for it, so it was free. Now if he had said open or f/oss or something then you'd have a point.
Funny. I bought an iBook and it came with a program called "DVD Player.app" which plays DVD's. I didn't have to pay extra. I didn't have to go buy it, it was just there. When I reinstall OSX from the restore DVD, the "DVD Player.app" comes with it.
On Linux there is a legal dvd player, but it is only sold through TurboLinux as part of their distribution (made by CyberLink, the people that brought you PowerDVD).
It's a Analog Terminal Adapter. It hooks your phone up to the internet so you can get Vonage. An unlocked version of the PAP2, known as the PAP2-NA is available for sale if you can prove to Cisco that you are a CLEC or an ISP.
A CLEC is a Competitive Local Exchange Carrier, a type of business that is in competition with Ma' Bell.
The main reason it is not availible and will not bea available for a long time is because M$ only trusts Windows Media Player 10. Microsoft has not released version 10 for the Mac and therefore no support for the DRM.
Perhaps I am a little naive, but what in the hell does Microsoft have to do with TiVo or Apple?
Why complain ? It is their stuff, and they can price it at any level they want.
Because when I don't buy any other product because of pricing, my civil rights usually stay in tact.
When I don't listen (therefore buy) RIAA music because I don't like the pricing, they do trending and compare previous years. Their conclusion, I'm a pirate!!!
I have 2 ipods and they are full of my old cd's, few itune tracks I've bought, and my fav podcasts. The fact that I own two ipods and am not buying music due to their pricing leads them to believe I am pirating. Suddenly they pass laws and screw all of our civil rights.
Apple is right, $0.99 is a sweet spot. Cheap enough for me to buy an occasional track and find the service useful. When the price rises I will not buy anymore, I have plenty to listen with my old cd's and my fav podcasts. Others will probably turn to piracy, true, but why should my rights be eroded??????
If you did a search for 'pre-teen books', would you appreciate it if I jumped to the wrong conclusion without considering the idea that maybe you were looking for books for your 13 year old kid?
Probably! Thirteen ends with a teen; pre-teen means the age group that precedes numbers that end with teen. Had you said "12 year old kid" I'd be with ya . . .
Then you have no opinion as a Linux user for the time period I am referring to. Gotcha.
Because telnet was enabled by default,... Autorun can be disabled, Are you trying to compare telnet and autorun? Telnet is not nearly as insecure by design as autorun. If telnet is enabled and the user doesn't do anything about it, it will just sit there idle doing no harm. Autorun OTOH will act autonomously once a CD is inserted. Autorun is insecure by design.
I am comparing bad defaults in two OS's. Bad defaults do in fact encourage bad behaviour. I am saying that both are bad defaults that encourage bad behaviour. I am not saying that telnet is as bad as autorun. As another example, a year ago most access points were wide open. Today most access points I see are WEP enabled minimum. My wrt54g was secured with wpa by default!
Red Hat use to do it Yes, even Red Hat makes mistakes. I'm not sure if it was by default configured as insecurely as it was the case on Windows. As soon as I found out about this feature's existence on Red Hat Linux, i started uninstalling it on all my machines. (Yes, you can actually do rpm -e autorun). The autorun in Red Hat Linux was something running under KDE and Gnome. As long as you were not logged into one of those environments, there would be no autorun. Loging in as root in a VT was safe.
It's still part of the default install in Fedora. The reason it's not that big of a problem is that regular users do not have the power to shoot the system in the foot. It can be disabled easily in Windows too. The problem here is that most Windows users run as Administrtator, plain and simple. And a lot of that has to do with the fact that Windows is hard to use for non-admin newbies. Linux is structured by default in that manner.
but early Linux distros had no firewalls by default No matter what problem you are trying to solve, there is always a better solution than a firewall.
Who said anything about using firewalls as solution to problems? We were talking about system security. Security is best done in layers, and a firewall is a good layer to have.
didn't ask you to use a non-root account. Red Hat Linux 6.0 warned me when loging in as root.
Try further back. I started with Linux on Yggdrasil, but automated malware wasn't that big of a deal then. It started becoming a real problem around the time RedHat 4 was released, which originally configured sendmail as an open relay.
Gone are the days when telnet was started by default. Having telnet open is in itself not a major problem. But of course if you use it, you will send passwords in clertext. Like any other software, it must be kept updated. I don't remember exactly when Red Hat started making updates easilly available.
Because telnet was enabled by default, people didn't realize that this was such a bad thing. It's the same reason so much crap comes into Windows machines via IE. In addition, it's the reason we are having this conversation. Autorun can be disabled, it's just a bad default! Bad defaults lead to bad behavior in uneducated users.
If this autorun executed as a regular user It would still be a security problem, but not as bad as it is now.
Bad defaults are bad defaults. Red Hat use to do it, see:
Slashdot Mirror
Ultimately MS didn't totally succeed however, because Java vendors like IBM and BEA were able to establish strong footholds in the applicaiton server markets even with Netscape eliminated.
Actually they had succeeded. Sun sued. Remember Microsoft had bastardized Java big time and was no longer compatible with the shipping Java JVM.
After the suit and major security problems with the Microsoft JVM it is now into round 2. Only time will tell what will happen in this round, however in the first round Microsoft definitely won!
Microsoft's income based on IE is negligible if not negative.
.Net dev tools and what not.
Bullshit! MSN makes quite a bit of money. IE uses MSN as the default search engine. The ads alone bring in quite a bit of revenue, otherwise Google wouldn't have bought a stake in AOL and had let AOL switch to MSN search technology.
That default earns them a lot of money in advertising. In addition it sells their technology, such as
It costs them absolutely nothing for Dell to preinstall Firefox; the only cost is altering the Windows Update site to allow for both browsers--which they're doing anyway.
Microsoft stated that they would allow Firefox to browse and download files from Microsoft.com, this means that it will use the Windows Media Plugin to run it's GenuineCheck test. They have not stated that they will support Firefox on WindowsUpdate. Truth be told that would be a bad thing, since it would mean giving Firefox way more power to alter the underlying OS.
Eventually, MS might reach a deal with the Mozilla Foundation to bundle Firefox with Windows, saving them the expense of maintaining IE. Then everyone wins--the users get a better browser and a more secure OS; Microsoft's reputation improves all around; Firefox spreads further; and website designers get redesign their sites to support standards and nix ActiveX controls.
This will never happen. They have revitalized the IE product and will not drop it as long as competition is available. The web is quickly becoming more powerful (think AJAX) and Microsoft will not allow a cross platform browser take the lead on that. Then it means users can switch easier between platforms.
Besides the Mozilla Foundation makes the majority of its money from the integrated Google search. Microsoft will not help what it considers an enemys friend.
Actually, you can remove IE but it is not simple and windows is left lacking a bunch of features.
I somehow doubt that Dell will use nLite . . .
First, IANAL. That said
The DMCA makes it illegal to circumvwent the protection.
There is an exception for compatibility. For example Asterisk PBX has a reverse engineered Skinny protocol, this is ok because it is done for compatibility. If this boot loader is used for running custom code on a personal x-box this would not be illegal even under the DMCA.
Copyright infringement is still illegal on top of that. Creating/using DeCSS violates the DMCA, but copying the DVD is copyright infringment.
Copying the DVD is illegal but not a prosecutable offense. The Fair Use doctrine makes personal copies legal. Downloading an image from BitTorrent or other things would be illegal.
DeCSS violates the DMCA. Before the DMCA it was still illegal because it stole decryption keys from the DVDA (not to be confused with double vagina, double anal). Although I believe that was only protected via trade secret, so it may no longer be elgible for protection at this point now that it is not a secret.
The DMCA is "evil", but just because people don't protect something technologically doesn't mean you should have the right to copy it willy nilly.
I disagree. You have the right to copy your personal stuff nilly willy for personal use. You do not have the right to copy other peoples stuff nilly willy.
The DMCA is evil though!
IANAL, but I thought Criminal Lawsuits determined whether the defendant was Guilty or Innocent. I thought Civil Lawsuits determined whether someone was Liable or Not Liable. . .
What if they enter in 3333333?
Services only get better when free enterpise rules. It is expensive to keep up these networks. Congress shouldn't be allowed to regulate the internet.
Then they better fork over all the Gov subsidies and tax breaks that they have been getting over the years. Remember these guys were paid money by the Gov to make and keep these networks going. They are a Gov Sponsored Monopoly, as such they are using OUR money to build infrastructure for US. If they want free enterprise rules, they need to pay US back for OUR money!!!
We can't have it both ways (regulation and no regulation). Look what happened to the cost of long distance when congress stopped regulating the telephones here...
As I recall the cost seriously inflated, VoIP came out, and deflated. In otherwords they were doing what is called price fixing. If they had all conspired to do it, they would have been in violation of a few federal statutes.
Actually physical letters don't carry the weight they did even a few years ago.
Sure they do! So long as the letters are addressed as coming from $MajorCorp and include a check they carry plenty of weight.
This is inconsistent with their refusal to take OS X when it was offered to them; if that wasn't ego-driven, then I don't know what that means.
I thought their goal was to spread technology to the underprivileged third world. The best way to do that is to use something that has a license which permits redistribution. Doing that with a closed OS, whose license can be revoked, is a bad idea. We all know Steve is a megalomaniac only on par with Larry McVoy, and we all remember how the BitKeeper incident went down . . .
Apple did not invent podcasting; they were even late adopters of it.
Yeah right . . .
Next you're gonna tell me that Microsoft didn't invent the web, and that they were late adopters of it.
Sure buddy, Whatever . . .
The name Rhapsody bothers me, everytime I hear it I think it's gonna be something about Apple's Rhadsody, Mac OS X's daddy, seriously, they should pick another name..
I always think of Wayne and Garth singin along to Bohemian Rhapsody in the car. . .
Are you being stupid on purpose? You admit to saying you paid for it, you just didn't have to pay extra. You "bought an iBook and it came with a program called 'DVD Player.app' which plays DVD's. [you] didn't have to pay extra. "
You just made my point for me. Play semantecs all you want, but my OS came with a DVD player built in, at no cost to me.
The GP poster was obviously talking about how in Windows. OSX comes with a DVD player. Stop being a zealot.
Why don't you offer it as a download if it is free?
Because I'm not a software pirate. Not all free software gives the user the right to distribute. Look at Sun's Java. Why isn't it a part of any modern distro? Because only Sun can distribute it.
You purchased the I-Book, which came with OSX. So you purchased OSX. OSX came bundled with a DVD-Player. Apples pays a licensing fee in order to bundle the DVD-Player with OSX. Therefore, by purchasing an I-Book, you purchased OSX. By purchasing OSX, you purchased the DVD-Player software. Otherwise, please find me the link to the DVD-player's site with the free download.
It was bundled for free. Play semantics all you want but there was no line item for DVD Player. It was bundled with OSX. How much did this extra bundle cost me? Nothing. Why? Because it was free. Nevermind that Apple paid the DVD Consortium for a license on my behalf. I didn't pay for it.
We were talking free (beer) software, not free (speech) software. There is a difference, I know it. Perhaps you don't . . .
All Commercial operating systems bundle software that they have licensed and pay royalties on for every copy of the operating system that is purchased. Free Linux distributions (and possibly some of the paid distro's too...) do not bundle commercially licensed software with the OS, because there are licenses, licensing fees, and royalties that would have to be paid for every copy of the distribution that is in use.
Indeed. All I am saying is that the main poster, to which I responded, had stated that you couldn't get an OS with a DVD player for free. Meaning that everyone had to purchase a DVD Playing Software for the OS of their choice. I merely stated that mine came with one that didn't need to be purchased. It came included. It didn't cost me anything. It was free. Get it!
I assume they would want to use some form of QoS to control traffic. However there would be a few problems that would arise from this. Let's say for instance Yahoo uses a seperate backbone from Google. Would this ISP then force Google traffic to slowdown? Or how about if Yahoo has more hops than Google? There are so many factors that affect Internet traffic that for an ISP to fully control them would be quite difficult. On most high-bandwidth ISPs where links hardly get clogged, one would certainly have to force low priority sites to slowdown.
It will basically work like this:
1. Yahoo! pays Bellsouth for "faster access"
2. Bellsouth slows down the competition (Google and MSN) using QoS
3. ???
4. Profit!!!
This will only work because most consumers of DSL don't care enough about these bad practices to realize what's going on.
Sounds like you paid quite a bit for it to me. The MPAA got their cut already from Apple, if you could download OSX legally and without payment, it would not come with a DVD player.
The GP poster said "There are no free legal DVD players ON ANY OS.". I didn't pay for it, so it was free. Now if he had said open or f/oss or something then you'd have a point.
There are no free legal DVD players ON ANY OS.
2 .html
Funny. I bought an iBook and it came with a program called "DVD Player.app" which plays DVD's. I didn't have to pay extra. I didn't have to go buy it, it was just there. When I reinstall OSX from the restore DVD, the "DVD Player.app" comes with it.
On Linux there is a legal dvd player, but it is only sold through TurboLinux as part of their distribution (made by CyberLink, the people that brought you PowerDVD).
http://www.turbolinux.com/company/news/2004/04072
I'm not sure what a PAP2 is. This tech is somewhat new, so please forgive my naivete...
http://www.google.com/search?q=PAP2
It's a Analog Terminal Adapter. It hooks your phone up to the internet so you can get Vonage. An unlocked version of the PAP2, known as the PAP2-NA is available for sale if you can prove to Cisco that you are a CLEC or an ISP.
A CLEC is a Competitive Local Exchange Carrier, a type of business that is in competition with Ma' Bell.
The main reason it is not availible and will not bea available for a long time is because M$ only trusts Windows Media Player 10. Microsoft has not released version 10 for the Mac and therefore no support for the DRM.
Perhaps I am a little naive, but what in the hell does Microsoft have to do with TiVo or Apple?
Gestapo!
Mien Lieben!!!
Why complain ? It is their stuff, and they can price it at any level they want.
Because when I don't buy any other product because of pricing, my civil rights usually stay in tact.
When I don't listen (therefore buy) RIAA music because I don't like the pricing, they do trending and compare previous years. Their conclusion, I'm a pirate!!!
I have 2 ipods and they are full of my old cd's, few itune tracks I've bought, and my fav podcasts. The fact that I own two ipods and am not buying music due to their pricing leads them to believe I am pirating. Suddenly they pass laws and screw all of our civil rights.
Apple is right, $0.99 is a sweet spot. Cheap enough for me to buy an occasional track and find the service useful. When the price rises I will not buy anymore, I have plenty to listen with my old cd's and my fav podcasts. Others will probably turn to piracy, true, but why should my rights be eroded??????
I typed a less-than sign next to 13, but it was filtered out. I'm sorry I wasn't super accurate enough to keep you engaged in this question.
Apology Accepted . . .
If you did a search for 'pre-teen books', would you appreciate it if I jumped to the wrong conclusion without considering the idea that maybe you were looking for books for your 13 year old kid?
Probably! Thirteen ends with a teen; pre-teen means the age group that precedes numbers that end with teen. Had you said "12 year old kid" I'd be with ya . . .
When can we expect Linux support?
When Sony starts going under the name s0ny.
I'd like to think that Linux is big enough now to demand proper support from Sony, just like Windows and OSX.
Indeed!
Try further back.
Back then I was using AmigaOS.
Then you have no opinion as a Linux user for the time period I am referring to. Gotcha.
Because telnet was enabled by default,... Autorun can be disabled,
Are you trying to compare telnet and autorun? Telnet is not nearly as insecure by design as autorun. If telnet is enabled and the user doesn't do anything about it, it will just sit there idle doing no harm. Autorun OTOH will act autonomously once a CD is inserted. Autorun is insecure by design.
I am comparing bad defaults in two OS's. Bad defaults do in fact encourage bad behaviour. I am saying that both are bad defaults that encourage bad behaviour. I am not saying that telnet is as bad as autorun. As another example, a year ago most access points were wide open. Today most access points I see are WEP enabled minimum. My wrt54g was secured with wpa by default!
Red Hat use to do it
Yes, even Red Hat makes mistakes. I'm not sure if it was by default configured as insecurely as it was the case on Windows. As soon as I found out about this feature's existence on Red Hat Linux, i started uninstalling it on all my machines. (Yes, you can actually do rpm -e autorun). The autorun in Red Hat Linux was something running under KDE and Gnome. As long as you were not logged into one of those environments, there would be no autorun. Loging in as root in a VT was safe.
It's still part of the default install in Fedora. The reason it's not that big of a problem is that regular users do not have the power to shoot the system in the foot. It can be disabled easily in Windows too. The problem here is that most Windows users run as Administrtator, plain and simple. And a lot of that has to do with the fact that Windows is hard to use for non-admin newbies. Linux is structured by default in that manner.
but early Linux distros had no firewalls by default
/ en/os/i386/autorun
No matter what problem you are trying to solve, there is always a better solution than a firewall.
Who said anything about using firewalls as solution to problems? We were talking about system security. Security is best done in layers, and a firewall is a good layer to have.
didn't ask you to use a non-root account.
Red Hat Linux 6.0 warned me when loging in as root.
Try further back. I started with Linux on Yggdrasil, but automated malware wasn't that big of a deal then. It started becoming a real problem around the time RedHat 4 was released, which originally configured sendmail as an open relay.
Gone are the days when telnet was started by default.
Having telnet open is in itself not a major problem. But of course if you use it, you will send passwords in clertext. Like any other software, it must be kept updated. I don't remember exactly when Red Hat started making updates easilly available.
Because telnet was enabled by default, people didn't realize that this was such a bad thing. It's the same reason so much crap comes into Windows machines via IE. In addition, it's the reason we are having this conversation. Autorun can be disabled, it's just a bad default! Bad defaults lead to bad behavior in uneducated users.
If this autorun executed as a regular user
It would still be a security problem, but not as bad as it is now.
Bad defaults are bad defaults. Red Hat use to do it, see:
http://mirrors.kernel.org/redhat/redhat/linux/7.2