Sony Rootkit Phones Home

Ha Ha! by turnipsatemybaby · 2005-11-07 02:12 · Score: 5, Funny

Somewhere in the distance, I hear Nelson shouting, "Ha ha!"

I wonder... by jcr · 2005-11-07 02:12 · Score: 3, Insightful

What happens if it phones home with a really big packet?

-jcr

--
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."

Re:I wonder... by sammy+baby · 2005-11-07 02:14 · Score: 4, Funny

Depends on whether it still has minutes left on its plan.
Re:I wonder... by IdleTime · 2005-11-07 03:58 · Score: 0, Offtopic

I think you misunderstand.
I meant that the months I only use 45 minutes, i still have to pay for 2000 minutes and will lose the ones I don't use unless I have a roll-over plan in which case the minutes are transferred and you end up with thousands of minutes that you will not use and still have to pay for additional new 2000 minutes each month. Horrible. And it doesn't really matter who you choose, it's not about how much it costs to go over (which is basically robbery from the cell phone company), but that you pay for minutes you'll never use and hence each minute you really use, becomes way too expensive. A horrible system designed to suck as much as possible out of our pockets while providing a minimum in return.

--
If you mod me down, I *will* introduce you to my sister!
Re:I wonder... by mrcolj · 2005-11-07 04:10 · Score: 0, Flamebait

I'm sorry but no one with a degree could not see the difference between a generality and a stereotype. Your whole post is about how you're the exception to apartment to his generality, but not negating his generality. We've all lived in apartments--it was called COLLEGE, and maybe young-married-poor. Most people who are in apartments are so because they can't afford a house or don't have the financial accuity to understand that they CAN afford a house. So yes, mathematically, apartments are generally inhabited by the lower end of society.

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--Colin Jensen
colinandbethany.com
Re:I wonder... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 04:38 · Score: 0

Moron. Where do you think people in New York live? There aren't many single family homes in Manhattan. I'd dare say that there are plenty of folks living there that make millions a year and do things like live in apartments and ride the subway.
Re:I wonder... by squiggleslash · 2005-11-07 04:51 · Score: 0, Offtopic

You do realise this is the case absolutely everywhere, right? I don't know of any countries where the cellular carriers refuse to include tariffs that include packaged minutes.
Look, you have several choices.
You can buy less minutes than you generally need, and pay overage occasionally.
You can buy more minutes than you generally need, and get a predictable bill.
You can buy a little more than you generally need on a Roll-Over plan (currently only available on Cingular and their affiliates), and not get hit too hard when you do go over.
You can go Pay As You Go. Cingular, Virgin Mobile, and T-Mobile all have decent plans in that area that require very little as the minimum call spend. Check them out.
All are available in the US, and Sprint PCS also has the "Fair and Flexible" plan which makes overage less of an issue.
What countries do you not have that choice, and why do you consider not being able to buy (note: not "buying", but "having the choice if you want it") more minutes than you need an advantage?

--
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Re:I wonder... by IdleTime · 2005-11-07 04:53 · Score: 0, Offtopic

No other country?
I don't mean to get nasty here, but that is positively wrong. I've used cell phones since the 80's in my homecountry, all the way uo until 1999 when I moved to USA. I NEVER had a plan, I always paid the same price per minute, no matter how much or little I talked and the minutes were billed to me at the end of each periode.

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If you mod me down, I *will* introduce you to my sister!
Re:I wonder... by squiggleslash · 2005-11-07 04:59 · Score: 0, Offtopic

Really? They *refused* to offer any talk plans at all with bundled minutes in your (unspecified) home country, to anyone? I find that hard to believe.

--
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Re:I wonder... by Elbeno · 2005-11-07 05:09 · Score: 1

IME Pay-as-you-go in the USA isn't real PAYG. The account still expires if you don't keep paying, even if you have a positive balance. So it's actually "pay every 3 months instead of every month". If you don't use your phone very much (I mostly just keep it for emergencies and such) then you still end up with $$$ worth of time that you won't use. I used to have real PAYG in the UK: I spent about £30 on my phone calls & SMS over the course of 3 years. Now my cheapest option is 3 or 4 times that because my account "expires" periodically.
Re:I wonder... by squiggleslash · 2005-11-07 05:27 · Score: 0, Offtopic

The only pay-as-you-go account I used in the UK before I moved here (Orange's JustTalk) also required minimal payment. It was an order of magnitude or two lower than you get here (You had to, IIRC, make one outgoing call of at least two minutes - about 1GBP IIRC every six months) but it had to be done. Orange, of course, also benefitted from the fact that it charged callers for incoming users, whereas US cellphone operators have to extract their revenues from the cellphone customer itself. I wonder if the cellphone really did earn your carrier 30GBP, or if you're just counting the money you yourself gave them.
There's probably never going to be a "True PAYG" plan as you've defined it because there are fixed resources that phone users are using by keeping their lines open - namely that the infrastructure to ensure a call can be connected has to be there, whether it's a telephone number or whatever else. There is an incentive on carriers to encourage their customers to spend something or disconnect.
Using a more reasonable definition, I'd say that most US PAYG plans are PAYG. You may have to make a minimum top-up every three months, but you will not lose that credit as long as you do so. That credit's available, and your minutes will be charged against it. The issue here, I think, is that a lot of people who say they want "PAYG" are actually looking for "Emergency Back-up Phone that Costs As Little As Possible". Whether it makes commercial sense to have such a tariff, especially when you can't say "Oh well, at least they make leave the phone on for incoming calls and use it largely for that" is open to question.

--
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Re:I wonder... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 05:29 · Score: 1, Insightful

Most people who are in apartments are so because they can't afford a house or don't have the financial accuity to understand that they CAN afford a house.
While this is very true, you have to understand that housing prices vary a great deal across the U.S. In Massachusetts, the housing prices are so high that it is sometimes very difficult for even a person with a six figure income to afford a house. We have the highest housing prices in the U.S. I live in a neighborhood which is about 40 minutes from Boston and about 10 minutes from Providence. It's also about 2 minutes from the armpit of Rhode Island - Pawtucket. You'd figure that the housing prices here should be dirt cheap, because of the location. They aren't. For instance, the other half of the duplex (i.e. two family home) that I live is being sold for almost $300,000. It has less than 1/10th of an acre and abuts a swamp. It has no garage and the driveway isn't big enough to accomodate two cars.
Now if you want to own a house with more than two bedrooms on a lot bigger than a postage stamp, you are going to have to spend more than half a million dollars. If you want to be close to Boston and not live in a slum, you are going to be spending over a million doillars.
So you have three choices, either purchase a house that you can afford in a bad neighborhood with a poor school system that will be devalued heavily when the bubble finally bursts, move, or rent an apartment to wait until housing prices come down.
Now do you see why so many middle class people are renting?
Re:I wonder... by itzfritz · 2005-11-07 05:45 · Score: 1

well, it runs apache 1.3.27...several vulnerabilities were found in that version ...
Re:I wonder... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 06:26 · Score: 0

haha, look at this guys website. You have no right to be talking about the lower end of society. Let me guess, you live in some inbred back water state. Perhaps, when you move to a city that's not infested with inbred, religious trash bag republicans you'll see that people live in apartments for a variety of reasons.
Re:I wonder... by IdleTime · 2005-11-07 07:11 · Score: 0, Offtopic

Refused? No, but there was never any plans in the first place. And the mysterious country is called Norway. I just checked and now they have taken to the same stupidity as US and I called my ex-wife to see when that happened and it seems like over the past 2-3 years the system has changed. I normally called as much or as little as I needed to and each month I got an invoice from the phone company specifying how many minutes I had used and the price per minute and a nice sum for me to pay. Best way for the consumer since you don't pay up front, don't have to guess how much you need, never have to worry about "losing" minutes. Too bad they have taken to the same crappy deals as we have here. You can check for yourself over at www.telenor.no or www.tele2.no/privat/mobil

So, I guess you ARE right after all, every country seems to be offering the same crappy shit and ripping off customers. Oh well, I was wrong! :-)

--
If you mod me down, I *will* introduce you to my sister!
Re:I wonder... by squiggleslash · 2005-11-07 07:35 · Score: 0, Offtopic

If there weren't any plans, then yeah, that's refusing to offer them. So I guess it was the case, and I have to say I'm amazed. I'm not surprised they're offering packages though now.
I use most of my (700) minutes, I also get free M2M and unlimited nights and weekends on my plan, shared amongst myself and my fiance, of which we generally use several thousand minutes. I fail to see how it's a rip-off or "crappy shit". If I used my phone to anything like the same extent on any pay-as-you-go tariff in the UK or US I'm aware of, I'd be paying $150-300 a month (and that's assuming I've carefully selected the plan.) I'm paying more like $75, and I know, the occasional text message or international phone call aside, that's all I'm going to pay.
So it's not "crappy shit". It's a poor choice, perhaps, if you don't use your phone very often, but that's what choices are for. The fact there are packaged plans doesn't mean there aren't any pay as you go systems. I mentioned a while range. If you think that your average bill on a PAYG plan would be well under what you'd pay on a monthly plan, then go with that. It wouldn't suit me, so I don't do it.
One thing I intensely dislike is the European attitude that people should have phones, but be punished for actually using them. That's what time charges amount to. This is a wonderful technology. It links people in ways never before imagined. With modern digital networks, there's more than enough capacity to go around in practice. There's no reason to discourage its use.

--
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Re:I wonder... by ProZachar · 2005-11-07 08:06 · Score: 1

It all depends on how much the Speak 'n Spell has been overclocked. That fork and saw blade aren't exactly premium components either. And we all know that satellite dishes made out of umbrellas have ridiculously high latencies.
Re:I wonder... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 08:27 · Score: 0

I love living in the city and that's why I rent an apartment. In Cambridge if I wanted to buy a house I'd need to rob several banks first. I'll buy a house in the suburbs when I'm ready to die...
Re:I wonder... by tdelaney · 2005-11-07 09:15 · Score: 0, Offtopic

Technically, I guess that if they can't afford a house, and others can, they are by definition "the lower end of society". It's just that the upper end only covers about 3 people ...
Re:I wonder... by utnow · 2005-11-07 18:44 · Score: 1

congratulations.... ? would you like a cookie? I still maintain that people who live in apartments are generally from the lower end of the economic spectrum. There are folks like yourself who live in apartments because you want to... I live in an apartment myself. huzzah

Exceptions: highly metropolitan areas where apartment living covers a much larger portion of the spectrum and/or has been made glamourous/exclusive... These do not however make up the vast majority of apartment dwellers. While a penthouse apartment on madison will house 1 resident, the same amount of space in new orleans is space enough for 100 multi-family units. Low income multifamily dwellings make up the VAST majority of apartment leases. There's an amazing amount of turn-over with these. Most people don't take care of rented property because they don't own it. There's a good chance that people will write bad checks, or bounce checks... or not have enough in their account to cover a debit-card. All of this costs money to the company trying to get their money. Even if a creditcard charge goes through, the company has to pay a certain percentage of the charge to the merchant services provider.

Apartment complex profit margins (especially with low income apartments) are low enough as it is. They simply can't afford to deal with bounced checks and people disappearing without fulfilling their contract payments.

THUS... pre-paid money orders and cash in some cases are generally all that they'll accept.

Seriously though... this isn't a hard concept. I really didn't expect to have to explain it this clearly. Who generally lives in apartments? College students, people who can't (or choose not to) own their own home, people looking for temporary living arrangements. These are high risk leases...

I mean... did I stutter when I said 'generally'? This isn't an insult. It's just true.
Re:I wonder... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-09 07:34 · Score: 0

Where do people in New York live?
As he said, the lower end of society lives in apartments...

Uh Oh by Honig+the+Apothecary · 2005-11-07 02:13 · Score: 5, Funny

I smell a DMCA violation on the /. front page! Cue the Sony lawyers in 4..3..2....

Re:Uh Oh by SatanicPuppy · 2005-11-07 02:21 · Score: 4, Informative

Heh. But you're circumventing their copy protection using their invasive DRM package. So aren't they to blame for the circumvention? They wrote the code, after all, and adding "$sys$" to a filename is as trivial as holding down the shift key, and the shift key lawsuit was thrown out of court. If only someone else could sue them...

I think Blizzard in particular has a good case against them, since their crazy DRM is being used to circumvent some of Blizz' anti-cheating measures.

--
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
Re:Uh Oh by TheRaven64 · 2005-11-07 02:24 · Score: 1

Now, I'm not a lawyer, and I'm not 100% familiar with the laws in question, but I seem to recall that DMCA violations are criminal, not civil, offences. This means that the state gets to decide who to prosecute, not the victim (which was why the Skylarov case continued after Adobe tried to drop it). In this case, couldn't the state (acting on behalf of Sony) prosecute Sony for DMCA violations?

--
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Re:Uh Oh by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 03:08 · Score: 0

The parent post was meant as a joke, but whay if Sony is just crazy enough to do it? Suppose I have this lovely Sony software on my PC, whether the software is cloaked or not. Sony knows that a computer at my IP address is using this thing.

Suppose my anti-spyware software deletes this rootkit. (I assume most anti-virus / spyware packages will soon be able to do this.) Sony no longer sees my IP address pinging them. And they also know that no removal request was received from my IP address through their annoying, official process. That means that I probably removed the software through "unauthorized"; means.

Did I break the DMCA? Does Sony know about it? Can they sue me?

Yeah, this is all theoretical tinfoil hat stuff. Um, right?
Re:Uh Oh by zoney_ie · 2005-11-07 03:21 · Score: 1

The ../../../ one wasn't thrown out though.

Who knows, depending on the place, stupidity/ignorance of the courts/lawmakers, you could be done for just about anything at the behest of the corporations. And in fact, the risk is just as great for some corporations that they'll get royally screwed in court.

The only people winning are the legal profession.

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Re:Uh Oh by happyfrogcow · 2005-11-07 03:32 · Score: 1

I smell a DMCA violation on the /. front page! Cue the Sony lawyers in 4..3..2....

That's ok. Just re-write the blurb to be wrapped in $sys$

Sony will never see it...
Re:Uh Oh by cpt+kangarooski · 2005-11-07 04:17 · Score: 1

There are both civil and criminal penalties. See 17 USC 1203 and 1204.

--
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
Re:Uh Oh by Lord_Dweomer · 2005-11-07 04:17 · Score: 1

"Heh. But you're circumventing their copy protection using their invasive DRM package. So aren't they to blame for the circumvention?"
Well, its not like they haven't sued themselves in the past...
That can probably be found on a "Your company might be fuxx0red when..." list somewhere.

--
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
Re:Uh Oh by ajs318 · 2005-11-07 04:25 · Score: 1

Or maybe you just stopped listening to that CD on your computer. Does it phone home when you're not listening to the CD? Then maybe you got rid of that computer. Whatever. It's your computer, and the only way it's any of their business what you do with it is if you throw it through the window of their head office.

--
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
Re:Uh Oh by kurzweilfreak · 2005-11-07 05:27 · Score: 1

What happens if you just turn your computer off? Ping stops, here come the lawyers. Better keep that computer on!

--
kurzweil_freak
5th Kyu Genbukan Ninpo/KJJR student
Be the darkness that allows the light to shine.

Rip It....Rip It Good by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 02:13 · Score: 5, Informative

CDex 1.51 had no issues ripping this CD.

Re:Rip It....Rip It Good by meringuoid · 2005-11-07 02:28 · Score: 4, Insightful

I've never met anything that cdparanoia couldn't handle, unless it was scratched to death; IIRC, CDex uses cdparanoia as its ripping engine, so it should have the same uber ripping powers.
AFAIK, the rootkit is the only protection on this CD. As they admit, it looks like a normal CD to an Apple computer - and, of course, to a Linux computer. And, for that matter, to a Windows computer with Autorun disabled... I do enjoy a truly pathetic copyrestriction system, don't you?

--
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
Re:Rip It....Rip It Good by ModernGeek · 2005-11-07 02:40 · Score: 5, Insightful

If it installs this rootkit through autorun when you put the CD into your Windows machine, how is this any different from a worm? Just because it isn't spread through the internet doesn't change the fact that it is a virus.

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Sig: I stole this sig.
Re:Rip It....Rip It Good by meringuoid · 2005-11-07 02:44 · Score: 5, Informative

If it installs this rootkit through autorun when you put the CD into your Windows machine, how is this any different from a worm? Just because it isn't spread through the internet doesn't change the fact that it is a virus.
It doesn't automatically self-propagate, so it isn't a worm. Nor does it infect files and piggyback on them to infect other machines; it isn't a virus. This particular piece of malware comes attached to something the user wants (i.e. a music CD) without his knowledge, and proceeds to infect his machine, but makes no attempts to spread itself to other machines. That makes it a trojan.

--
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
Re:Rip It....Rip It Good by ModernGeek · 2005-11-07 02:55 · Score: 5, Insightful

The way I heard it, it sounded like it was copying itself from the CD to the machine without the users consent. I assumed this would be called a virus as it is replicating itself. Maybe trend micro's quiz didn't educate me very well

After finding more information about it, it sounds as if it blocks programs from accessing the CD drive that are in sony's list.

Step 1: Rename your Windows Server App to ITUNES3.EXE
Step 2: Put all the config files for that server app on a CD
Step 3: Insert Sony music CD into secondary drive
Step 4: The DRM that installed itself without your consent crashed your mission critical server. Sony is liable!
Step 5: ???
Step 6: Profit!

--
Sig: I stole this sig.
Re:Rip It....Rip It Good by Tim+C · 2005-11-07 02:57 · Score: 1

I do enjoy a truly pathetic copyrestriction system, don't you?

Personally, I prefer them to truly effective copy restriction systems...

--
It's official. Most of you are morons.
Re:Rip It....Rip It Good by zootm · 2005-11-07 03:17 · Score: 3, Informative

The way I heard it, it sounded like it was copying itself from the CD to the machine without the users consent. I assumed this would be called a virus as it is replicating itself. Maybe trend micro's quiz didn't educate me very well

Nah, viruses copy themselves, this one is installed by another part of the software when the CD is inserted, then does not copy itself. The difference is subtle, though. "Trojan" is very accurate.
Re:Rip It....Rip It Good by LiquidCoooled · 2005-11-07 03:33 · Score: 1

If you use the player functionality to make a copy of the CD, doesn't the copy also contain a version of this software just with Copyremaincount=CountRemainCount-1?

--
liqbase :: faster than paper
Re:Rip It....Rip It Good by apoc06 · 2005-11-07 03:38 · Score: 1

used all my mod points this morning, and then i saw this gem.
Re:Rip It....Rip It Good by zootm · 2005-11-07 03:39 · Score: 1

I didn't even know that could be done. Doesn't really seem like a virus, still.
Re:Rip It....Rip It Good by plj · 2005-11-07 03:53 · Score: 1

AFAIK, the rootkit is the only protection on this CD. As they admit, it looks like a normal CD to an Apple computer - and, of course, to a Linux computer. And, for that matter, to a Windows computer with Autorun disabled...

Well, tried to tell that before. It is just a standard CD with a data track on it. I think that the labels no more dare to try anything else, because standard CDs are for sure the only CDs that are quaranteed to work in standalone players. First generation protections used unclosed data sessions (quite ineffective and easy to circumvent) or deliberate Red Book errors on tracks (somewhat reduces sound quality), and generated lots of complaints, because they did not necessarily work on all players.

This naturally means that such “DRM” relies entirely to the assumptions that users are running Windows and that they are stupid enough to let the autoplay run in first place.

Personally, I couldn't care less of this sort of “DRM”; it is much easier to bypass than that of iTMS, for example, and I still get the uncompressed CD-quality audio tracks extracted that I want. The bad thing is that the CP logo printed on the case does not tell the actual technology in use; one has to Google for it.

--
“Wait for Hurd if you want something real” –Linus
Re:Rip It....Rip It Good by speculatrix · 2005-11-07 03:58 · Score: 1

I have a Sony protected CD that I couldn't rip on my PC... it ripped fine using the built-in ripper in my Xbox!
The irony of this should appeal to many /.'s.
Re:Rip It....Rip It Good by meringuoid · 2005-11-07 03:59 · Score: 1

If you use the player functionality to make a copy of the CD, doesn't the copy also contain a version of this software just with Copyremaincount=CountRemainCount-1?
I wouldn't call that a virus, as long as it adds the DRM autorun to your burned CDs if and only if you're burning a copy of the DRM'd CD in question. Then it's still a trojan, which happens to spread to your friend because you foolishly copied the trojaned media.
If, OTOH, it hijacks the system to such an extent that it puts its DRM malware on all burned audio CDs, whether they be copies of the original trojaned CD, or party mixes from a variety of sources, or even CDs of your three year old kid reading aloud for the first time and you're SOOOOO proud of him, then that is definitely a virus, of the old-school type; it's basically the same thing as all those infected floppies we remember from high school.

--
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
Re:Rip It....Rip It Good by psychonaut · 2005-11-07 04:00 · Score: 1

I've never met anything that cdparanoia couldn't handle

I have. I bought a copy of the Beatles' Let It Be... Naked, which is one of those weird crippled discs, and I could neither play it nor rip it. I ended up returning it to the store.
Re:Rip It....Rip It Good by meringuoid · 2005-11-07 04:19 · Score: 1

I bought a copy of the Beatles' Let It Be... Naked, which is one of those weird crippled discs, and I could neither play it nor rip it.
Really? Hmm. Me too. It ripped just fine, I have it in ogg format on my iriver right now (yes, I know, Slashdot stereotype #5776, Linux / ogg / iHP-400, but it's true) and it sounds great. It took a great deal longer to rip than a normal CD would, and cdparanoia reported errors more or less continuously, but every one of them seems to have been corrected.
Perhaps it may depend to some extent on the capabilities of the CD drive being used. Mine is, amusingly, made by Sony...

--
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
Re:Rip It....Rip It Good by Mooga · 2005-11-07 04:57 · Score: 1

It seems like two CD drives, one with the Sony CD and one with Knoppix, would be the perfect way for someone to rip the music with ease. Now while WE know how to do this, most people don't.

What exactly happens when you try to rip or burn one of the CDs?

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~ Mooga
Re:Rip It....Rip It Good by nasor · 2005-11-07 05:19 · Score: 1

Except of course that it warns you about it and asks if you want to continue before it installs - not something that trojans are known for doing. Of course it doesn't call itself a "rootkit," but it tells you that it is about to install software on your computer and asks if you agree or not.
Re:Rip It....Rip It Good by zootm · 2005-11-07 05:26 · Score: 1

Well, the rootkit component is a harmful component not (apparently) warned about in the documentation, which would make it a little different there.
Re:Rip It....Rip It Good by plj · 2005-11-07 05:32 · Score: 1

WTF? Engrish as a second language?

Well, more or less yes... sorry. :) I intentionally omitted “I” from the first sentence, but otherwise I'm not sure at all about what is wrong in those other spots that you've emphasized.

But I bet that mine was still far from the most horrible statements that you can find on /.!

--
“Wait for Hurd if you want something real” –Linus
Re:Rip It....Rip It Good by supabeast! · 2005-11-07 06:42 · Score: 1

"That makes it a trojan."

Trojans require the user to actively install them, thus the name. This one installs on its own, without the user doing anything but inserting the CD, which makes it a virus.
Re:Rip It....Rip It Good by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 07:09 · Score: 0

It won't; if the crater.sys isn't installed, the CD-audio data won't get scrambled during a ASPI or SPTI read.

Other than that, XCP Aurora (standard) appears to be a valid CD-Extra; with two sessions, the first session which contains only audio tracks (which a CD player is supposed to see), and the second session which contains the audio tracks and an extra, data track (which contains the player/malware and WMA-DRMv2 files).

That said, none of the samples I've seen have a CD logo of any kind. Nor, by the way, do they have an IFPI "Copy Control" logo, or indeed any indication that the discs contain any protection whatsoever.

One of the samples I have installs the Aurora drivers before an EULA is displayed; it is still installed even if you close the window. Probably an early version.

I would conjecture that the disc would be perfectly fine, on the condition that autorun was disabled, perhaps by holding the shift key while inserting the CD, or using Windows' administrative templates (Start > Run > gpedit.msc), which can of course be enforced using a domain policy (and, as some anguished admins have seen, should be).

Please note - the "higher-security" ("CD player only") scheme, XCP Red (which is targeted at internal/demo releases and promos, not retail discs) does not appear to contain this malware, in fact, it doesn't have a data track at all, which belies its no-PC targeting. Instead of a data track, it relies on malformed sessions, weak sectors in the TOCs, and EFM/C1 errors in much the same way as CDS-200; and like that protection, if you used one of a certain number of high-quality drives and used a single session mode to ignore the invalid sessions, it would be rippable too; useful for radio stations trying to get their work done, so I hear. Hypothetically. (Since you're unlikely to ever actually see an XCP Red disc in retail, especially now all this about the standard Aurora has come to light, the relevance of this is in question, but still, it's out there.)
Re:Rip It....Rip It Good by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 08:35 · Score: 0

That isn't ironic. Perhaps if a Playstation had a built in ripper which could rip the CD then that would be ironic since Sony make the Playstation, however they don't make the X-Box so there is no irony here.
Re:Rip It....Rip It Good by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 08:45 · Score: 0

If you had a decent amount of memory (say 512Mb, but 256Mb might be enough) you could use SLAX with the RipperX module and it's copytoram feature to free up the CD drive, then you can rip the music with only one CD drive.

Saying that, the perfect way to rip a CD with ease would not involve rebooting into another OS.
Re:Rip It....Rip It Good by lomedhi · 2005-11-07 08:59 · Score: 1

If the rootkit/DRM is allowed to install, does it disallow ripping of all CDs?

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Did you say "insightful" or "inciteful"?
Re:Rip It....Rip It Good by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 10:55 · Score: 0

A trojan is not a program which installs itself surreptitiously. A trojan is a program which in addition to or masquerading as a beneficial program installs a 2nd malicious program (the payload).

By definition, the victim of a trojan has (implicitly or explicitly) approved the installation of some software on their system.

A relatively common form of trojan is one which legitimately installs a media player but additionally installs a spyware application, dialer, or rootkit.

This particular instance, if I understand it correctly, installed a normal (visible, uninstallable) application which by all appearances was the one the EULA applied to. In addition, it modified the operating system reducing functionality and easing further exploitation. It appears quite clear from the wording of the EULA ("uninstall") that the EULA is not intended to apply to the concealed payload.

OT: It also appears that the "legitimate" application turns out to be spyware despite the EULA explicitly stating otherwise.
Re:Rip It....Rip It Good by Hal_Porter · 2005-11-07 11:42 · Score: 1

Perhaps it may depend to some extent on the capabilities of the CD drive being used. Mine is, amusingly, made by Sony...

Maybe the ripped copy contains a rootkit for your brain that just makes you think you've copied it.

--
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
Re:Rip It....Rip It Good by Hal_Porter · 2005-11-07 11:47 · Score: 1

True, and Microsoft seem to be siding with people who rip and stream content as a way to compete with Sony.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20051017-5445 .html

--
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
Re:Rip It....Rip It Good by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-09 03:31 · Score: 0

Trojan is not accurate. "Trojan Horse" would be. Even "Greek" would be ok.

The market provides! by dada21 · 2005-11-07 02:13 · Score: 1, Insightful

Instead of rushing in and demanding a law to battle this "problem," just leave it alone. The market continues to provide exactly what people want.

Most ony customers care little for this Sony solution. My 12 year old sister doesn't seem to care one bit. Sony has the "right" to provide this feature as you're not being forced to buy it.

You're responsible for checking out a product before buying it. I won't buy any music ROM disc that doesn't have the "CD" certification logo, unless it is from an indie band. I still rip eve y CD from a CD player with an optical out into my PC. Safety first.

If Sony doesn't get a lot of backlash over this system, others will adapt it. I am not buying any more Sony CDs, but I'll buy other products from other divisions.

I see no reason to cry wolf here. You are buying their product. If you find something you don't like, someone will adapt it for your uses.

For those wanting a la , remember you likely supported the same political parties that enacted the DMCA, copyright extensions, and other tyrannical laws. Stop voting in the booth, vote in the checkout aisle.

Re:The market provides! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 02:17 · Score: 5, Insightful

Most ony customers care little for this Sony solution. My 12 year old sister doesn't seem to care one bit. Sony has the "right" to provide this feature as you're not being forced to buy it.

You're responsible for checking out a product before buying it. I won't buy any music ROM disc that doesn't have the "CD" certification logo, unless it is from an indie band. I still rip eve y CD from a CD player with an optical out into my PC. Safety first.

You obviously never read the original article. Sony didn't advertise in any way shape or form that this was on the CD, so even you wouldn't have been able to "check out" the product before buying it!
Re:The market provides! by phil+reed · 2005-11-07 02:18 · Score: 5, Insightful

Of course, this presumes that the product and the producer don't take active steps to deceive the consumer, and presumes a technically-sophisticated consumer capable of analyzing the technology involved. Your idealistic scenario kind of falls flat when it runs into the real world.

--

...phil
"For a list of the ways which technology has failed to improve our quality of life, press 3."
Re:The market provides! by Vokkyt · 2005-11-07 02:22 · Score: 5, Interesting

Well, even though it IS possible to just not buy the stupid Sony CDs, the issue is that there is no denying that Sony is a major market force, and as a major market force, it is going to serve as a template to other companies. Yeah, others probably will copy this and that is the issue.

If others are apathetic about it, then that's fine, but they shouldn't complain when people who do care want to take issue with Sony's actions. If enough consumers take issue with it now, the message will become clear enough in the baby-stages of the new CD DRM that at least some companies will refrain from doing this. The idea isn't to just complain over a little thing, but to stop something that people do not want to happen. I don't see an issue with that.

And it's not necessarily that anyone denies Sony's rights to provide this either; people simply do not want it, or are indifferent to it. Those who are indifferent shouldn't care either way, and those who don't want it shouldn't have to have it, and as a corporation, Sony should listen to the consumers a little and realize this is technology that people do not want.

Of course, this leads a lot into the discussion of wanted technology vs unwanted technology and how a lot of the larger corporations nowadays just put enough money into things so that they live long enough to be considered common place, and hence gain acceptance, which is altogether a frustrating business model which made me stop watching television long ago...but yeah...different topic.
Re:The market provides! by stinerman · 2005-11-07 02:23 · Score: 4, Insightful

Stop voting in the booth, vote in the checkout aisle.

You know as well as I do that if you don't do the bidding of the right people, you won't find yourself with any "shelf space". Its white bread or wheat bread, anything else is illegal. Feel free to vote in the checkout aisle, just don't complain to anyone when your rye bread is nowhere to be found.
Re:The market provides! by leuk_he · 2005-11-07 02:26 · Score: 5, Interesting

Yes, that is what the sony reaction look like. They just behave as this is a non-issue.

But, by not adding an uninstaller, not putting it it in the EULA what it is doing and playing the blaim game to apple*, their software is not better than the worst spyware. They think they can install anything on a users PC, but this might be plain illegal.

If you do not care about spyware and viri, please let it pass, but if you care for your privacy and/or your pc you should not "vote with your wallet", but name it what it really is.

*(their faq keep babbling you can not transfer it ot itunes because apple did something to make their api incompatible, instead of watching their DRM solution)
Re:The market provides! by rheotaxis · 2005-11-07 02:40 · Score: 1

I agree that Sony will lose some market segment over this, but how big is that segment compared to the one that doesn't care, because its mostly ignorant? Still, laws sometimes slow things down, or speed things up, and always create unintended consequences, so usually less law is better. Besides, nothing is perfect, ever. Laws and markets are arbitrary social mechanisms, and thus both have similar problems. We need both, we use both, so the human species needs to improve the implementation of both together.

Besides, no law will prevent me from rearranging the digital bits on any physical media I pay for.

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Software freedom...I love it!
Re:The market provides! by OverlordQ · 2005-11-07 02:44 · Score: 0

If you ignore the EULA given then yes, it wasn't 'advertised'

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Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
Re:The market provides! by Artifakt · 2005-11-07 02:44 · Score: 1

Classic Straw Man you've got there. Who's demanding more laws here? At a generous estimate to your claim, 80-90% of the posters here are 'demanding' only the uniform enforcement of meatspace related laws which have existed for hundreds of years in our system, laws against fraud, trespass, or other basic violations. A good portion of the 'slashdot set' is argueing for the exact opposite, the repeal of or more existing laws, such as the DCMA.
Oh, but they don't identify themselves as anarcho-capitalists. They aren't all stopping voting and thus allowing the businesses they disagree with to join with portions of the government in mischaracterizing them as apathetic consumers, 'pirates' or natural members of the criminal class.
If you, yourself, don't like the Sony rootkit, then you're committing the classic mistake that cripples and disempowers you, demanding ideological purity tests from people who actually agree with you on this point, instead of working from your area of agreement, and adopting whatever solutions seem most effective.
The "crying wolf" remark is equally telling here. You're about the third poster to this thread. The article itself seeems to be rather higher on actual hard facts than is slashdot standard (admittedly not a very tough test). Who's (figuratively) 'crying wolf'? Who even managed to post ahead of you? Even including earlier threads on the Sony DRM system these have also tended to have at least a few facts included, and the ratio of posters discussing actual facts has been pretty fair. How about waiting until someone actually yells "The sky is falling!" before you bring out that old chestnut about the chicken?

--
Who is John Cabal?
Re:The market provides! by saltydogdesign · 2005-11-07 02:44 · Score: 3, Funny

Yeah, let's demolish the entire system of law while we're at it -- I'm sure the market will provide something better.

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// This is not a sig.
Re:The market provides! by karmawarrior · 2005-11-07 02:47 · Score: 5, Interesting

I have to say I generally agree. There is a fundamental problem though in that most people lack the knowledge to realise that simply because something is sold as a CD, in with all the other CDs, looking identical to all the other CDs, with little or no warning on the packaging that it's not a CD save, in a minority of cases, for text that looks more like legalese worded to appear to be suggesting extra benefits of the package rather than to actually suggest the package is crippled, doesn't mean that, in fact, they are getting a standard "red book" CD. The fact that such widespread ignorance exists means that any content producer that wants to can actually remove their products from the market, as far as those who prefer open formats are concerned, and can only sell non-CDs, and all the incentives exist to actually encourage content publishers to do this.
If something isn't done about this soon, clearly network effects will result in pretty much every "CD" being DRM-encumbered, containing, as Sony did, software that actively damages the configuration of the systems the CD is meant to play upon. However, it would be entirely wrong to hold companies like Sony to account for this. They, after all, are merely trying to make money. It is entirely right that they should do so by taking advantage of ignorance to encourage people to do things that are entirely not in their best interest. If businesses were not able to do this, if businesses had incentives to make money when honest, then freedom itself would be at risk. Liberty would be in peril.
What kind of "choice" is it where you do not need to be a technology geek to decide whether or not to buy a "CD" of music? What kind of "freedom" does one have if every vendor of cellular service is telling the truth about their talk plan prices? How are we free if we do not, in practice even if we rarely do, have to hire a lawyer before taking a job or even installing software? Can we be described as supportive of liberty when a shop cannot put a price label on an item that actually reflects the retail price minus some "mail in rebate" the customer might not even qualify for, and if they do, might not get anyway?
Those who defend the intervention of government into these matters ignore market forces. Just as, say, if people like purple cars, the market will eventually end up producing purple cars, so it follows that what we're seeing here is market forces. People, through their unwillingness to spend every waking moment researching every aspect of the products they buy before they buy them, refusing to visit factories to determine environmental and employment issues, refusing to educate themselves about 14 bit 44.1KHz encoding, refusing to examine the contracts of the artists who produced the works, refusing to understand the lower level Win32 APIs and the registry, refusing to even design proxy-device drivers to understand these basic concepts, demonstrate that they want ignorance, and they consider being taken advantage of, being fooled, as actually a thing of value. We cannot have honesty in business when the market wants dishonesty.
But, no, there are those who want to smother consumers in regulation and red-tape. They want to prevent consumers from getting the products and services they deserve. And why? Because the more dishonest the market becomes, the more they scream and think something needs to be done.
This quagmire of people complaining about the market when the market is actually providing them with what they asked for will not disappear by itself. Resources need to be devoted, and unless people are prepared to actually act, not just talk about it on Slashdot, nothing will ever get done. Apathy is not an option.
You can help by getting off your rear and writing to your congressman or senator. Tell them that the market is important to you. Tell them that you appreciate the work being done by Sony, Steam, Kevin Jones Staples and Off

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KMSMA (WWBD?)
Re:The market provides! by marika · 2005-11-07 02:51 · Score: 5, Insightful

Isn't it a problem if you can't read the EULA before buying the product? And since you unpacked the CD you are actually stuck with it.

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This is totally insecure, but very convenient.
Re:The market provides! by Haeleth · 2005-11-07 02:53 · Score: 2, Insightful

Instead of rushing in and demanding a law to battle this "problem," just leave it alone. The market continues to provide exactly what people want.
Most ony customers care little for this Sony solution. My 12 year old sister doesn't seem to care one bit. Sony has the "right" to provide this feature as you're not being forced to buy it.

And that's exactly why we have the responsibility to make a big fuss about it.

When someone does something bad, we, as responsible citizens, have to educate others about it. We have to make a big fuss so that people realise why they shouldn't want CDs infected with DRM. To remain silent would be to give consent for Sony and pals to keep right on shafting us.

Voting with your wallet is a good start. But we need soapboxes too. There's no point voting with your wallet if nobody knows what you're doing or why.
Re:The market provides! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 02:55 · Score: 0

Is it just me, or when this stuff happens, is sony always on the frontlines? Even when an article states that the *aa did this or that, isn't sony usually the instigator?

From now on, I will not buy sony anything, if I can help it. Not dvd players, or headphones, and certainly not media produced by sony. There is always an equivalent alternative.
Re:The market provides! by jacksonj04 · 2005-11-07 03:00 · Score: 4, Informative

But the fact still remains, CDs which have the "Compact Disc Digital Audio" mark on them cannot include DRM as it is against the CD spec. I agree that not showing software may be installed is a bad idea if not actually illegal (I haven't seen a CD in question so I don't know if it has a "This CD may install software" notice), but if you buy a "Compact Disc Digital Audio" marked CD which then installs something it is in fact false advertising, and IIRC the CD mark is quite strictly enforced.

--
How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
Re:The market provides! by loraksus · 2005-11-07 03:03 · Score: 5, Insightful

Lets stop pretending that retailers allow you to return CDs.

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1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcfv gbhnjmk,l.;/
Re:The market provides! by DingerX · 2005-11-07 03:14 · Score: 3, Interesting

Market my ass. The Music Industry, like many "mature" industries in the modern world, is effectively an oligopoly that uses government regulation as a means to perpetuate their market stance. This is the reality of capitalism. The "industry" doesn't always win in their control over the government; states have the unenviable role of being force to mediate between contrary demands, and only the most impressive of dictatorships can even pretend to be consistent in its behavior.

Intellectual Property is an even trickier area -- the concept that ideas have market value doesn't go back very far: maybe to the era of verbose hacks like Charles Dickens. Anyway, the problem here is that with IP, "The Market Provides" doesn't work as an argument, since IP guarantees a monopoly over a certain product. Don't like paying $110 for a Star Trek season DVD? Tough -- nobody else can sell that, and IP gives the owner the right to ask whatever price he likes. Yet the limited number of companies that control the market generally fix those prices fairly high. Remember the LP to CD transition? In changing formats, the retail cost of a recording doubled, artist royalties dropped, as did the production and distribution costs for the new media. But prices have "hard" value. What happens when these oligopolies decide to go after stuff with intangible value, such as personal information? If one company decides to make "phoning home" and "customer profiling" part of the package, they'll probably find most people won't object. And the other handful of companies that control the market can and will follow suit -- that's not a slippery slope; it's maximizing revenues. That leaves us with the choice of wearing tinfoil hats and living in caves, or surrendering valuable information about how we live our lives.

That's not a choice, and it is a good reason for governments to get involved on what are in effect unconscionable terms being foisted on the purchaser.

Then again, in a society where Google never forgets, I probably should be posting as AC if I wanted to maintain my privacy.
Re:The market provides! by loraksus · 2005-11-07 03:26 · Score: 3, Insightful

Perhaps, but I'd guess that this cd would pass the tests and get the mark because it plays in everything except a windows pc w/autorun (and only then because their shitty software breaks your machine)
That said, it is a damn sleazy thing to do - both in terms of screwing the people who buy the CD and in terms of the decision to purchase this (ultimately useless) DRM.
Apparantly a lot of the higher ups in this DRM company also have high level positions in Sony. Would anyone here be surprised if any of the execs at the DRM company received bonuses around the time period that Sony chose their DRM?

If this is given enough public attention, perhaps shareholders may get pissed.

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1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcfv gbhnjmk,l.;/
Re:The market provides! by dada21 · 2005-11-07 03:31 · Score: 1

This is the reality of capitalism. Not quite. You defined mercantilism. Capitalism's only law is supply and demand. Mercantilism requires government force.

Tough -- nobody else can sell that, and IP gives the owner the right to ask whatever price he likes. I'm against copyright and IP for this reason. My rule is "don't publish what you don't want copied."

That's not a choice, and it is a good reason for governments to get involved on what are in effect unconscionable terms being foisted on the purchaser. Actually it IS a choice. Want privacy? Don't use products that ruin your privacy. Involving government is what ruins choice. Creating laws only reduces our freedom. Name ONE LAW in 50 years that has helped only the consumer.
Re:The market provides! by dada21 · 2005-11-07 03:36 · Score: 1

You were right until they updated the article :)

Yet decrying the expected "sue! sue! sue!" folks is just pre-replying to the Norm. I hedged against the expected responses.
Re:The market provides! by jx100 · 2005-11-07 03:36 · Score: 1

I don't think the EULA mentioned anything about a potentially dangerous rootkit. And I'm not sure about it mentioning phoning home either.
Re:The market provides! by Sketch · 2005-11-07 03:40 · Score: 0, Redundant

> Most ony customers care little for this Sony solution. My 12 year old sister doesn't seem to care one bit. Sony has the "right" to provide this feature as you're not being forced to buy it.

A president of one of Sony's divisions agrees with you: "Most people, I think, do not even know what a Rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"

Source: http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2005/11/more-on-s ony-dangerous-decloaking.html#113113836431821799

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-- OpenVerse Visual Chat: http://openverse.com
Re:The market provides! by aug24 · 2005-11-07 03:41 · Score: 2, Funny

...they can have my breadmaker when they pry it from my cold, dead, hands?
;-)
J.

--
You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me.
Re:The market provides! by muzzy · 2005-11-07 03:43 · Score: 5, Informative

Sorry, no bonus. The Van Zant CD with the rootkit has a CDDA logo. It's a multisession CD with real audio tracks with malware on a data track. Plus apparently one extra data track without filesystem, no idea what that is, shows up in my ripper.

In the front cover, no notice of protection. On the side, no notice. On the back, facing towards front, on left side of the cover (you know), there's "Content enhanced & Protected" text. On the reverse side, it says "Certain computers may not be able to access the digital file portion of this disc. Use subject to applicable end user license agreement". It says it needs a mac or PC with windows, pentium II, IE5, DirectX 9, 128M ram. Says that ripping with windows media player 9.0 works, and is compatible with Windows Media portable devices and Sony Walkmans.

So, yea, it pretends to be a CD. I don't know the standards to know if this is really a valid audio cd since it's multisession. It's definitely about trying to screw the consumer, though, since it tries to break the cd playback ability of the computer with the malware it ships with, under guise of "DRM".

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-- Matti Nikki
Re:The market provides! by LurkerXXX · 2005-11-07 03:45 · Score: 1

Psst, the info wasn't in the EULA, it was in the Terms and Agreements, a seperate document. The EULA itself doesn't describe it at all. and in the "Terms and Agreements" it never states that the stuf spies on what websites you go to, your email, or that THERE IS NO UNINSTALL PROGRAM FOR IT and that you CAN'T REMOVE THE SOFTWARE!
So no, it wasn't advertised at all as to what it really is.
Re:The market provides! by Viper+Daimao · 2005-11-07 03:56 · Score: 1

well, the OP's sig does say he's an Anarchocapitalist, so yeah, I think that is a somewhat simplified explanation of what he wants.

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"In the game of life, someone always has to lose. To me, if life were fair, that someone would always be Oklahoma." -DKR
Re:The market provides! by pintpusher · 2005-11-07 04:01 · Score: 1

OMFG this is FUNNY!!! not interesting!!!

(Lameness filter precludes more caps in this post. please imagine more caps. thank you)

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man, I feel like mold.
Re:The market provides! by Samus · 2005-11-07 04:03 · Score: 1

It never ceases to amaze me that people still mod you up. Course you've been gone a while so maybe that explains it.

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In Republican America phones tap you.
Re:The market provides! by paulthomas · 2005-11-07 04:12 · Score: 3, Informative

I purchased the 2 Fast, 2 Furious soundtrack from Barnes & Noble several years ago to see what the Digital Restrictions were like.

If it were only the sound that offended me, I would have simply thrown away the disc after my experiment (and trust me, this is by far the worst movie soundtrack I've ever encountered). However, I had problems actually listening to the disc.

I took the CD back to Barnes & Noble and explained the problem. They offered to exchange my opened disc for the same title. I then proceeded to explain that all discs in the lot were defective and that it was intentionally crippled by BMI (if I recall correctly). After less than 7 minutes talking to management, I left the store with cash in hand for my returned, defective disc.

Sometimes returning things is not easy, but if you can make the case that you were sold defective goods, any sane manager will accept the return. Your assertion is only true if you take the initial answer they give you.
Re:The market provides! by xaque · 2005-11-07 04:18 · Score: 1

*cue patriotic music*
Re:The market provides! by MemeRot · 2005-11-07 04:23 · Score: 1

It doesn't spy on what websites you go to, or your email.

I believe you're thinking of the Warden from Blizzard's World of Warcraft. The topics were only linked b/c some people who got sony rootkitted used their rootkit to hide their game cheat programs, by renaming them $sys$SomeGameCheat.exe or whatever.
Re:The market provides! by LurkerXXX · 2005-11-07 04:56 · Score: 1

Oop, yes, you are right. My bad. I got the spyware mixed up.
Nevertheless, Sony doesn't tell you you can't uninstall their spyware.
Re:The market provides! by DynamoJoe · 2005-11-07 05:28 · Score: 1

I think it can bear the mark in this case. DRM software is not contrary to the spec, as it's just another application that's on the CD. Now there are certain kinds of DRM that knowingly screws up the directory on the CD in the hopes that computers can't read it (but less-sophisticated players ignore the errors). Since the discs contain intentional invalid formatting, it's not adhering to spec. I think an example of this is the one that was famously defeated with a Sharpie a few years ago... IANAL, YMMV, EIEIO

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bah.
Re:The market provides! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 05:47 · Score: 0

The market continues to provide exactly what people want.
The market does in fact do no such thing. It regulates prices through supply and demand, it's not some magical fairy-tale problem-solver. The only way for the market to provide exactly the product which the customers want, would be if it was possible for competitors to sell a product which differs in just one feature - e.g. the very same music on a CD without DRM. The market is prohibited from doing this through IP laws.
Re:The market provides! by monkeydo · 2005-11-07 05:50 · Score: 1

No, it isn't really a problem, because you have the option of returning the item if you don't agree to the terms inside the packaging. If you don't have that option, then the terms aren't binding.

--
Si vis pacem, para bellum
The only thing more annoying than a Libertarian is an (un|mis)informed Libertarian
Re:The market provides! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 06:13 · Score: 0

There is a fundamental problem though in that most people lack the knowledge to realise that simply because something is sold as a CD, in with all the other CDs, looking identical to all the other CDs, with little or no warning on the packaging that it's not a CD save, in a minority of cases, for text that looks more like legalese worded to appear to be suggesting extra benefits of the package rather than to actually suggest the package is crippled, doesn't mean that, in fact, they are getting a standard "red book" CD.

For the love of everything that is holy, learn how to use the fucking period. That sentence wouldn't pass even a 5th grade teacher.
Re:The market provides! by cyxxon · 2005-11-07 06:21 · Score: 1

I am allergic to rye, you insensitive clod!
You know how bad it is to be allergic to this and only have "white bread or wheat bread" as an option, unless you go to wholefood shops?
Re:The market provides! by DigiShaman · 2005-11-07 06:26 · Score: 1

And if your a retailer, stop stocking CDs from Sony!!!

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Life is not for the lazy.
Re:The market provides! by DigiShaman · 2005-11-07 06:35 · Score: 1

This will backfire on Sony. Right now, we have China and Korean companies in the same market that Sony is in. The LAST thing Sony needs is bad PR. Once the momentum of bad rap start hitting your average joe, it's over...hands down.

Just look at AOL and Dell. Their customer service and product support has sucked for the past few years, and now it has come to bite them in the ass. It will take a long time (several years at best) to change the momentum of how the public sees them. Untill that changes, AOL will have the rap for Always Off Line, and Dell will be seen with shitty tech support outsourced that is basically useless.

As for Sony, they will be seen in the public as DRM Nazis. NOT a good image to have right now. It could very well doom while Apple continues to gobble up their market share.

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Life is not for the lazy.
Re:The market provides! by TheRaven64 · 2005-11-07 06:37 · Score: 1

Here in the UK, we have something called a requirement of merchantability. If something is not suitable for the purpose for which sold, then it can be returned up to one year later. In my experience, if you stand at the counter repeating `This is not suitable for the purpose for which sold. I would like the refund to which I am entitled under the trade descriptions act' in a progressively louder voice, then they will give you a refund - it's either that or let all of the customers in the shop know that they won't take back defective goods.
If they really won't, then you can take them to the small claims court.

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I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Re:The market provides! by vertinox · 2005-11-07 06:59 · Score: 1

It is entirely right that they should do so by taking advantage of ignorance to encourage people to do things that are entirely not in their best interest.

False advertising is illegal because it is tantamount to theft.

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"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
Re:The market provides! by marika · 2005-11-07 07:09 · Score: 1

I don't think it will actually work if I bring a cd back or a software back claiming that I don't agree to the terms. Everywhere I shop, you can't return a software if the package it opened. Maybe where you live it's different but in the US and in Canada you just can't return an open software.

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This is totally insecure, but very convenient.
Re:The market provides! by wiml · 2005-11-07 08:07 · Score: 1

Sorry, not true. This particular kind of DRM doesn't break the CD spec. Other kinds of "copy protection", such as SunComm's MediaCloQ, do violate the CD specification and are technically not CDs. But schemes which are based on autorun trojans, like the scheme in the article or like SunComm's MediaMax, don't violate the CD specification at all.
Re:The market provides! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 08:45 · Score: 0

You'd know, I assume, because you're a fourth grader?
It's a long sentence because it's supposed to be, that's the entire joke. It's pretty obvious that's what's intended. eg. "If it wasn't for {huge long list of reasons when you're expecting something short and minor} it would be X."
I think you should possibly take the reading comprehension skills course again.
Re:The market provides! by jacksonj04 · 2005-11-07 09:08 · Score: 1

I disagree - IIRC CDs with data tracks should carry the CD-ROM mark in place of the CDDA mark, since CDDA basically means "I adhere to the CD audio specification". Some older (Yet still very much spec-meeting) players would balk at data tracks. But then again, IANAL.

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How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
Re:The market provides! by plj · 2005-11-07 09:45 · Score: 1

Multisession CDs are valid audio CDs, provided that the audio tracks are located before data session. They have existed years before anyone had even thought copy protecting CDs. The whole rumour that copyprotected discs are not valid is due to first generation copy protections that relied on deliberate errors on audio tracks (that also reduced sound quality) and/or unclosed data sessions.

This recent protections only rely on assumption that people are running Windows and that they are folly enough to let the autoplay run.

--
“Wait for Hurd if you want something real” –Linus
Re:The market provides! by squiggleslash · 2005-11-07 10:02 · Score: 1

My god! That sounds like COMMUNISM!
That's a joke, needless to say.
In all these kinds of cases, I tend to defer to "Squiggleslash Shrugged". I see nothing wrong with businesses that rely upon ignorance and confusion on the part of their customers being regulated out of existance. If Sony wants to become a parasite, then it's time to expose it to the anti-lice cream. Sorry dada21, you're not making a great case for anarcho-libertarianism if you support Sony's right to take advantage.

--
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Re:The market provides! by ZachPruckowski · 2005-11-07 12:36 · Score: 1

you can take them to the small claims court.

Yes, because people are actually going to sue someone over a single CD? I doubt any more than 1% of Sony's customers would do it.
Re:The market provides! by loraksus · 2005-11-07 18:07 · Score: 1

This will backfire on Sony.
I really hope it does - although I really doubt that it will be because the average joe is pissed (unless someone spins it the right way like "oh no, it downloads kiddie porn") people just care about whether the cd plays in their car stereo and cd player.

Just look at AOL and Dell. Their customer service and product support has sucked for the past few years, and now it has come to bite them in the ass. It will take a long time (several years at best) to change the momentum of how the public sees them.

Yet people buy their stuff - because they are just as bad as every other manufacturer out there.

--
1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcfv gbhnjmk,l.;/

No information by Threni · 2005-11-07 02:14 · Score: 5, Insightful

"No information is ever fed back or collected about the consumer or their activities."

Other then your IP address, date and time it's connected to the net, the CD you're listening to, how often you listen to it...

Re: No Information by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 02:29 · Score: 0

DING DING DING !!! We have a winner!!!!!

Its amusing how often people forget just what information IS collected is a situation like this. The attitude of, 'unless its reading my hard drive', its not collecting data...

Not like it matters, but my boycott of purchasing CD's and DVD's continues...
Re:No information by jcr · 2005-11-07 02:37 · Score: 4, Funny

And anything else the botnet operator who uses Sony's holes to own your machine wants to know.

-jcr

--
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Re:No information by martijn-s · 2005-11-07 02:40 · Score: 1

Well, as Apache does not automatically store form fields in the log files, that would be limited to:

ip address, date, time
Re:No information by martijn-s · 2005-11-07 02:44 · Score: 2, Interesting

Okay, that's not quite true :) I just noticed that my server provider did customize the logs.
Re:No information by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 04:04 · Score: 0

Recently a known spyware came to mac while I don't think they dare to put spyware features in first version.

The famous WeatherBug.

While reviewing spyware for windows which I am away for 2 years, I saw those words way too much.
Re:No information by Threni · 2005-11-07 05:05 · Score: 1

And I'm talking about what Sony *can* collect, not what Apache does collect.
Re:No information by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 06:55 · Score: 0

Lies .. pure. Slashdot knows your IP and date time when you view their banners, how is this different? The last two you made up, shame on you fanboy.
Re:No information by sqlrob · 2005-11-07 07:55 · Score: 2, Informative

Because it sends the identifier of the CD in the HTTP request. RTFA
Re:No information by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 07:56 · Score: 0

They are not lies - look at the information from the Ethereal capture where the rootkit sends the Product ID code with the request to Sony's web site. That tells them WHAT CD your listening too. And since it sends that each time, it also tells them how often you listened to it. So they are NOT made up and this IS information that Sony COULD collect.

Why is this posted in games? by PhotoBoy · 2005-11-07 02:14 · Score: 4, Insightful

Is it the game of working out ways to piss off Sony by circumventing their crappy DRM?

Re:Why is this posted in games? by Psx29 · 2005-11-07 04:15 · Score: 1

I was about to say the same thing but then I saw your post. Crazy.
Re:Why is this posted in games? by HTL2001 · 2005-11-07 04:59 · Score: 1

Because there was an article about this in every other section already?

Seriously though, I'm glad we are getting updates. It was just too good of an opertunity to pass up :P

--
By reading this, you have given me brief control of your mind.

Wow, users like Sony's Rootkit by slashnutt · 2005-11-07 02:15 · Score: 4, Informative

The Register
World of Warcraft hackers have confirmed that the hiding capabilities of Sony BMG's content protection software can make tools made for cheating in the online world impossible to detect.

----
Did you like the placement of the comma?

Re:Wow, users like Sony's Rootkit by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 02:30 · Score: 0

Wonder how Sony will like their rootkit when Everquest users start using it? If they haven't already.

Also, First 4 Internet's rebuttle by Bananatree3 · 2005-11-07 02:15 · Score: 5, Informative

Mark has also just posted how First 4 Internet, the creators of the rootkit, have made a rebuttle on Mark's claims: http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2005/11/sonys-roo tkit-first-4-internet.html

Re:Also, First 4 Internet's rebuttle by Minwee · 2005-11-07 02:58 · Score: 1

"Rebuttle" is not a word. Neither is "Buttle". It's "Rebuttal". Look it up.
Re:Also, First 4 Internet's rebuttle by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 03:20 · Score: 0, Funny

pedent
Re:Also, First 4 Internet's rebuttle by plover · 2005-11-07 03:40 · Score: 2, Funny

I dunno, I thought "The Buttles" sounded like a good name for a tribute band; perhaps to the Beatles, perhaps to the Rutles, or maybe to the Butthole Surfers.
Either that, or "buttle" is what the guy in the tuxedo is doing when he brings a tray of cocktails.

--
John
Re:Also, First 4 Internet's rebuttle by bitingduck · 2005-11-07 03:41 · Score: 1

The story made CNN-- I saw it on the monitor in the airport on Saturday evening. They did point out that malicious programs could use the DRM to hide in your system.

According to CNN Sony claims that the future version won't cloak the files, but nothing about how to deal with it if you're already infected with it.
Re:Also, First 4 Internet's rebuttle by dylan_- · 2005-11-07 03:57 · Score: 5, Funny

"Rebuttle" is not a word. Neither is "Buttle". It's "Rebuttal". Look it up
Actually, "buttle" is a word. It means to pour out drink (it's a back-formation from "butler"). Therefore "rebuttle" is obviously to refill someone's glass. Or something. Ahem.

--
Igor Presnyakov stole my hat
Re:Also, First 4 Internet's rebuttle by stuckinarut · 2005-11-07 05:08 · Score: 1

Completely off topic but Buttle was the main character in Terry Gillingham's fantasy Brazil
Re:Also, First 4 Internet's rebuttle by Minwee · 2005-11-07 05:49 · Score: 1

My old friends Samuel Johnson and Noah Webster disagree with you on that.
Re:Also, First 4 Internet's rebuttle by Minwee · 2005-11-07 05:57 · Score: 1

Pedant. If you're going to whine, at least do it right.
Re:Also, First 4 Internet's rebuttle by dylan_- · 2005-11-07 06:06 · Score: 1

Well, you need a better dictionary then ;-)

OED:
Buttle, v.
a. To pour out (drink).
1867 B. BRIERLEY Marlocks Merriton 5 in Lanc. Gloss. (E.D.S.) 60 The broad village green buttled round its cheap delights. 1875 E. WAUGH Old Cronies iii. 34 ibid., 'Buttle out, free!' cried Giles to the servants.

--
Igor Presnyakov stole my hat
Re:Also, First 4 Internet's rebuttle by Doppleganger · 2005-11-07 06:40 · Score: 1

No, no, it's "pendant". :P
Re:Also, First 4 Internet's rebuttle by DanAndDusty · 2005-11-07 07:32 · Score: 1

Buttle? You sure about that.. I have Tuttle on this here piece of paper.
Re:Also, First 4 Internet's rebuttle by dmatos · 2005-11-07 09:36 · Score: 1

I would say that "rebuttling" is something you do at the end of the night, where you take all the dregs of everyone's drinks, pour them into a new glass (thus rebuttling the liquid), and give it to the drunkest person there to see if they'll actually consume it.

--

It may look like I'm doing nothing, but I'm actively waiting for my problems to go away.
--Scott Adams
Re:Also, First 4 Internet's rebuttle by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-14 12:32 · Score: 0

Not quite...

Sam Lowry - Jonathan Pryce (Main Character)
Archibald "Harry" Tuttle - Robert DeNiro
Mr. Buttle - Brian Miller

Oh wait! I thought you meant 'Brazil' by 'Terry Gilliam'. I have no idea who this 'Gillingham' character you're talking about is. Sorry, my mistake.

In Sony's Japan... by w.timmeh · 2005-11-07 02:15 · Score: 5, Funny

DRM software bypasses... itself?! Wait...

Re:In Sony's Japan... by alta · 2005-11-07 02:44 · Score: 1

Yeah, I was just thinking to myself... "Self, why don't you go out and buy a CD with this on it. Then I can cheat warcraft (which I don't play), burn an CD I want, and otherwise trick my system whenever I need to"

Then again, I haven't bought a CD since the day I downloaded napster. Remember, the original?

--
Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
Re:In Sony's Japan... by muzzy · 2005-11-07 02:58 · Score: 3, Informative

It would've indeed been super funny. However, the rootkit is made so that processes starting with $sys$ can see all files and processes that begin with $sys$ ... Try it with task manager, command prompt, or even explorer.exe (just kill the already running instance first)

Something else let me rip the track the first time, so the DRM system probably bugs. Every other time I tried, that trick didn't work. I'll know more when I've finished analyzing the rootkit, but it's taking time...

--
-- Matti Nikki
Re:In Sony's Japan... by Thud457 · 2005-11-07 04:52 · Score: 1

I think it would be poetic justice if you stole Sony's DRM to cheat at WoW.
Extra bonus points if you figure out how to use it to cheat at Everquest.

--
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

Poetic Justice by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 02:18 · Score: 0

"You can use the Sony rootkit itself to bypass their own DRM!"

Hopefully that alone will stop the record companies from attempting this type of method again, but I doubt it.

Anyone know if the "phone home" is in the EULA? by RandoX · 2005-11-07 02:18 · Score: 5, Interesting

I don't have (and don't plan to buy) one of these CDs, but I would think that any external communication or use of your net connection would have to be disclosed in the EULA. It could be covered in some legalese catch-all such as "as necessary to provide enhanced services", etc. This is the kind of reason I'm immediately suspicious of anything that begins, "For your convenience"... It rarely is.

Re:Anyone know if the "phone home" is in the EULA? by jdaluz · 2005-11-07 02:42 · Score: 1

Maybe I missed something...since when does a music CD have a EULA?
Re:Anyone know if the "phone home" is in the EULA? by RandoX · 2005-11-07 02:57 · Score: 2, Informative

I did some looking and found the EULA online. To answer my own question, it doesn't seem to mention the "phoning home".
Re:Anyone know if the "phone home" is in the EULA? by Esion+Modnar · 2005-11-07 03:38 · Score: 1

I'm immediately suspicious of anything that begins, "For your convenience"... It rarely is.
A local gas station had a sign above the pump saying that it had a $48 credit card purchase limit, and that "for your convenience" you may pay inside. I confronted the manager over this "convenience", and she said it was a convenience because otherwise I would have to stop the pump, and start another purchase.
She completely ignored the fact that it was the purchase cap which made it necessary to come into the store "for your convenience" in the first place!
"For your convenience" is corporate double-talk for "for your great inconvenience." "For your convenience, Vinny will break your knees if you don't pay up on time."

--

They say the first thing to go is your penis. Well, it's either that or your brain. I forget which...
Re:Anyone know if the "phone home" is in the EULA? by ZorinLynx · 2005-11-07 03:58 · Score: 1

A bit off-topic, but I figured it'd be interesting in this thread. I once came across a BP station that had a $24 credit card limit. This is a ridiculously low limit with gas at nearly $3 a gallon, so I asked the manager and he said that it is a credit card company requirement and that he "couldn't do anything about it".

Which was total bullshit because the BP down the street had the normal, much higher limit (which has never affected me).

Needless to say, that station has lost all my future business because of their stupidity, even though they're usually a couple cents less expensive than the other BP!

-Z
Re:Anyone know if the "phone home" is in the EULA? by Threni · 2005-11-07 05:10 · Score: 1

> This is the kind of reason I'm immediately suspicious of anything that begins, "For your
> convenience"... It rarely is.

I'm similarly amused when some organisation says `we're sorry but we can't....` then something which clearly they could do if they wanted, such as allowing you to use vouchers to buy petrol or cigarettes, or apply more than once from the same household in a competition.
It's rarely true that they can't avoid inconveniencing you in in some way, just that they wouldn't make as much money from you if they did.

LGPL violation? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 02:20 · Score: 5, Interesting

comment posted by Matti Nikki :
Also, go check Contents\GO.EXE in the cd and search for string "LAME". This is possible LGPL violation, since LAME mp3 library has been statically linked against the executable. You can see that version.c has been compiled in since it generates those version strings, and I found tables.c as well. Didn't locate any code though, apparently removed by optimizing compiler due to being unreferenced, but I couldn't test for all LAME code as I don't have proper tools available (such as sabre-security bindiff)

Re:LGPL violation? by yakumo.unr · 2005-11-07 02:32 · Score: 0

Mod up parent, i'd love to see this investigated more thoroughly!
heard someone mention this in less detail in the prewvious news peice on Sony.

Re:You can use the Sony rootkit itself to bypass by moon-monster · 2005-11-07 02:24 · Score: 1

Actually, if you look further down the comments, you'll find another post by Matt Nikki saying that he tried it again and it didn't work, so either he got lucky one time or something strange is going on.

See here

--
"Pokey, are you drunk on love?" "Yes. Also whiskey. But mostly love... and whiskey."

Brilliant marketing by Slashdiddly · 2005-11-07 02:25 · Score: 5, Funny

I have to hand it to Sony marketing execs. Ordinarily they would be hard-pressed to sell even a few dozen copies of that CD. Throw in some DRM and now you have millions of geeks buying the CD trying to break it (or verify somebody else's claims of having broken it). That stuff is so good you can't even torrent it.

Re:Brilliant marketing by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 02:41 · Score: 0

plus all the hackers and script kiddies buying the cd just to get the root kit.
Re:Brilliant marketing by TheSync · 2005-11-07 02:58 · Score: 2, Interesting

If you had an ISO file, could you reproduce the CD with DRM in effect?

What if. . . by smooth+wombat · 2005-11-07 02:25 · Score: 4, Interesting

you're not connected to the net? I know, horrible thought to comprehend but there are those of us who aren't plugged in 24/7.

What happens then? Do you get an error message? Does the CD not play? What if you block the ad retrieval via your firewall?

What if I turn off the monitor and walk away while the CD plays? Am I stealing ala Jack Valenti and not watching commercials on tv?

--
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower

Utterly Laughable by yakumo.unr · 2005-11-07 02:25 · Score: 5, Insightful

These copy protection schemes are NEVER goign to work as long as the content is still available to play on regular cd players. Even if it's not, it will be hacked as long as some hacker thinks it might be an amusing way to spend an afternoon.

why are sony SO unbeleivably stupid as to think otherwise. They must be wasting hundreds of thousands of pounds on this utterly useless rubbish, that even the least technical of people can bypass.

These things are so childish no hacker would even bother with them, as stated this one even defeats itself!
It only takes one breach to distribute a copy, why piss off thousands of genuine paying clients?

The mind boggles, the only people winning are the copy protection companies living happy lives doing nothing but ripping Sony off.

aren't they supposed to do maketing studdies on things before release?
maybe employ a 16 year old to independantly test the schemes for them rather than taking the word of the people selling them this rubbish
(I'd have said 10 year old but it wouldn't be legal)

revenue lost to purchasing clients who will have to return product as it wont run. $X,0000
revenue lost to potential clients who will be scared off buying in the first place. $Y,0000
estimated reputation damage to company. priceless.

estimate of no. of pirated copies prevented. ZERO.

Re:Utterly Laughable by sqlrob · 2005-11-07 02:29 · Score: 3, Insightful

estimate of no. of pirated copies prevented. ZERO.

Actually, that's probably in the negative. How many are going to pirate that weren't simply because they aren't going to trust Sony CDs not to do anything to their computer from now on?
Re:Utterly Laughable by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 04:19 · Score: 0

You know DRM is useless. I know DRM is useless. However, if Sony wishes to pay me 1 million dollars to develop them a "new improved DRM system" - sure...

great... by archen · 2005-11-07 02:26 · Score: 5, Insightful

So you can use their own rootkit to bypass their own DRM. And exactly what level of control do you even have at the point where you are screwing with a rootkit to rip CD's on your own computer?

I hope Microsoft is paying attention here, because this could set an EXTREMELY bad trend here. Why do we have these "certified" drivers? Because a lot of them were crap. Now we have software injecting stuff directly into the OS. I can't say this is going to help MS in the security and stability department.

Re:great... by CodeBuster · 2005-11-07 09:07 · Score: 1

Now we have software injecting stuff directly into the OS. I can't say this is going to help MS in the security and stability department.

This is a very good point. If First 4 Internet can inject code into system drivers then someone with far more malicious intent (.i.e steal your online banking password and drain your accounts) can do the same thing. It would be extremely foolish for Microsoft to do nothing about this now that the exploit is known to exist. The damage is somewhat contained for now because the code is not in the wild and First 4 Internet does not intend to defraud Sony's customers. However, the rootkit problem remains a very serious threat and Microsoft should take this very seriously.

The $sys$ prefixing thing was apparently wrong :( by muzzy · 2005-11-07 02:26 · Score: 5, Informative

Just my luck, when I make it to slashdot it's something I've analyzed wrong. I tested to rename my ripping software to begin with $sys$ and it ripped it fine, but apparently something else was the deciding factor. I can't reproduce that effect!

There's definitely something fishy going on, however, with two magic lists in the DRM system (one in installer, one in $sys$DRMServer.exe), and the drmserver scans running processes and open windows, testing them against those lists. So far I haven't figured what it does when it finds a match. The code is written in C++ and although I've found the function call, it's virtual and I need to figure which vtable is being used and it's bitchy without a debugger. I'm not going to run this crap on my development systems, and my test machine doesn't even have net access, too much work to setup debuggers on it just yet :(

Anyway, the lists for everyone to see:
http://hack.fi/~muzzy/sony-drm-magic-list.txt
http://hack.fi/~muzzy/sony-drm-magic-list-2.txt
The first one is from installer, the second from drmserver

--
-- Matti Nikki

What's the EFF by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 02:26 · Score: 0

What's the EFF?

Re:What's the EFF by beisbol · 2005-11-07 02:40 · Score: 1

http://www.eff.org/

Bypassing ripper detection by 91degrees · 2005-11-07 02:26 · Score: 1

Wouldn't simply renaming the ripper software have pretty much the same effect? It looks like the DRM simply compares the executable name with its list of executables and does stuff depending on the name.

Re:Bypassing ripper detection by L0k11 · 2005-11-07 02:42 · Score: 1

i'm no geek, but most ripping software would (i'm guessing) have to call an external dll/program (even just to access the media) to do all the work... so maybe thats why it cant be reproduced?
and the rootkit could/maybe/does block the dll?

--
"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything" -- Josef Stalin

Listing of Sony DRM'ed CDs by tradjik · 2005-11-07 02:27 · Score: 5, Informative

As posted previously on another SONY DRM/rootkit article, here is a google search through Amazon listing the DRM'ed CDs:
http://www.google.com/search?q=sony+site:amazon.co m+intitle:%22%5BCONTENT/COPY-PROTECTED+CD%5D%22&nu m=100/

Re:Listing of Sony DRM'ed CDs by droptone · 2005-11-07 09:32 · Score: 2, Informative

A collected listing from that link (If you see a band/group/artist you like, be sure to try to contact them and inform them of what is going on with THEIR music!):

A Static Lullaby - Faso Latido
Acceptance - Phantoms
Amerie - Touch
Bob Brookmeyer - Bob Brookmeyer & Friends [Remastered]
Buddy Jewell - Times Like These
Celine Dion - On Ne Change Pas
Chayanne - Cautivo
Chris Botti - To Love Again
David Gray - Life In Slow Motion
Dexter Gordon - Manhattan Symphonie
Dion - The Essential Dion
Elkland - Golden
Emma Roberts - Unfabulous And More: Emma Roberts
George Jones - My Very Special Guests
Gerry Mulligan - Jeru
Goapele - Change It All
Horace Silver - Silver's Blue
Kasabian - Kasabian
Kings of Leon - Aha Shake Heartbreak
Life of Agony - Broken Valley
My Morning Jacket - Z
Natasha Bedingfield - Unwritten
Neil Diamond - 12 Songs
Our Lady Peace - Healthy In Paranoid Times
Pete Seeger - The Essential Pete Seeger
Ricky Martin - Life
Sarah McLachlan - Bloom Remix Album
Shelly Fairchild - Ride
Susie Suh - Susie Suh
Switchfoot - Nothing Is Sound
The Bad Plus - Suspicious Activity
The Coral - The Invisible Invasion
The Dead 60s - The Dead 60s
VA - Elizabethtown OST
Van Zant - Get Right with the Man

--
Every post I make begins with the assumption P=~P.

Obligatory Soviet Russia Joke by Vampyre_Macavity · 2005-11-07 02:28 · Score: 0, Offtopic

In Soviet Russia . . . DRM bypasses YOU!

--
Patrolling ftw

In other related news... by xtracto · 2005-11-07 02:28 · Score: 5, Informative

SysInternal's Mark Russinovich has posted a new entry about Sony's XCP DRM technology.

According to his post, it seems Sony's fix "patch" makes a little "contact home" contacting Sony servers. This even when sony claims that their software didnt made contact with them.

Slashdot covered previously the intial XCP rootkit story.

The inquirer has an interesting article on the Sony DRM technology overall.

And it seems community have found several alternate uses for the XCP technology which include hiding game cheating software and even to bypass DRM technology

--
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'

Re:In other related news... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 02:33 · Score: 0

Sony DRM technology calls home. Monday November 07, @09:01AM Pending
Sony DRM technology may be worst than it seems Monday November 07, @08:12AM Rejected

One just wonders why...

BTW, I updated my DRMd CD's list...

Yeeeaaaah by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 02:28 · Score: 0

Gotta get me a Sony cd. with that i can copy cds, passby anti-cheating software in games, even install a few trojans/viruses/worms muhahahahaha...

I just love technology when it comes from the brilliant minds from Sony.

Thank you Sony, you have just set back security on the pc 10 years. oohh the possibilities...

The solution: by rokka · 2005-11-07 02:30 · Score: 1

I've bought perhaps 8-10 CDs with "copy protection" over the past few years. Some of these where so crippled that my (very old but functional) CD-player wouldn't play them. The solution? Make a copy!
I still have not come across a CD that won't rip through standard Linux GUI applications Kaudiocreator and/or grip. Usually I start with Kaudiocreator which will rip 90% of copy protected CDs. If it doesn't work out, I think perhaps they manufacture rw-errors on the disc, I switch to grip which will rip the remaining 10%.
This is a hassle for me, and it's ridicules that I have to make a copy of my CDs in order to play them, but it's not a real problem since open source CD-ripping software obviously is superior their Windows equivalent.

--
I could be wrong. I'm always wrong...

Re:The solution: by RandoX · 2005-11-07 02:35 · Score: 1

The latest CDex rips these just fine on Windows.
Re:The solution: by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 03:03 · Score: 0

...but it's not a real problem since open source CD-ripping software obviously is superior their Windows equivalent.

Open source is not the opposite of software that runs on Windows. You can write open source software for Windows.
Re:The solution: by Pieroxy · 2005-11-07 03:09 · Score: 1

I have EAC and an old TEAC CD burner. Every copy protected CD I've thrown at it went trhough with a bunch of errors, but the WAV files play just fine.

--
Write boring code, not shiny code!
Re:The solution: by pintpusher · 2005-11-07 04:17 · Score: 2, Insightful

I thought about this and then realised that the problem is that you're still PAYING them to produce this crap. This bothers me. While its great that you can get the music you want, and its cleary "fair use" to make a "backup" of the original disc it turns my stomach to realise that they are basically getting away with this crap. What you are doing is validating their plan.

The only solution I see is to make a copy, then take the original disc(along with all packaging), along with the crufty old player that CAN'T read it back to the retailer and demand your money back as the disc won't function in your player. You'll likely have to demonstrate that. If the disc is so crippled, then it can't really meet the CDDA standard etc etc etc.

Oh, yeah. You'll want to throw away that copy you made earlier. ahem.

--
man, I feel like mold.

I need to thank Sony by melgish · 2005-11-07 02:31 · Score: 2, Insightful

I've always been under the impression that Japanese companies (or those largly held by) were a bit more ethical than their American counterparts. Sony has proven to me that my impression was completely in error. Unless they come very clean, very quickly, I will do my utmost to avoid purchasing any Sony product ever again, be it a new cam corder, an entertianment system...or even blank media.

Re:I need to thank Sony by Frankie70 · 2005-11-07 02:37 · Score: 4, Informative

I've always been under the impression that Japanese companies (or those largly held by) were a bit more ethical than their American counterparts. Sony has proven to me that my impression was completely in error.

http://www.sonybmg.com/management.html

2 Americans, 1 Australian & 1 European.
Re:I need to thank Sony by vandenh · 2005-11-07 03:02 · Score: 1

>I've always been under the impression that Japanese companies (or those largly held by) were a bit more ethical than their American counterparts.

That is strange. I wonder why you thought this?

In many ways Japanese companies are even less ethical IMHO since they are based on a very close loyality between customers and companies. Japanese people believe their companies know best and they trust them (well that is changing but that is besides the point) 100% while US companies are actually bound by the laws of capitalism. In theory, a capitalist system will reward companies that the consumer "likes" and punishes companies that the consumers "dislike". So I guess being ethical falls into this relationship as well.
(of course capitalist companies have found ways of increasing trust without actually being more trustworty ;)
Re:I need to thank Sony by melgish · 2005-11-07 03:17 · Score: 1

>That is strange. I wonder why you thought this? Possibly because I have a good idea just how un-ethical American companies can be ;-)
Re:I need to thank Sony by melgish · 2005-11-07 03:26 · Score: 1

One could argue that management and ownership are different...but you may be more correct, as it was management that made those decisions...
Re:I need to thank Sony by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 04:53 · Score: 0

SWEET!

Lets find out where these jackasses live and setup some cameras around their mansions. Then we can capture video of them with their mistresses, and "anonymously" send these video tapes to their wives.

Maybe these SOBs will see how it feels.
Re:I need to thank Sony by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 09:35 · Score: 0

And don't forget the BMG side. One of the head shots will look familiar to those on the sonybmg.com management page. Wow what a list of products to boycott. You don't think in today's world - and in it's corporate mesh of interests - that you can just not buy some CDs, to get one's point across, do you? OK, you didn't ask, but if one *is* considering a boycott, then there's a lot more than music involved. HUA
Re:I need to thank Sony by TheoMurpse · 2005-11-08 13:24 · Score: 1

DRM-laden CDs are everywhere in Japan. When I lived there, I would find a CD I wanted to buy. Then I'd notice that it was a copy-protected CD, so I wouldn't buy it. Sony lost out on so many sales that way.

Detecting and removing the rootkit by 91degrees · 2005-11-07 02:31 · Score: 1

Does anyone know how safely detect and remove this without relying on the Sony download? For some reason, I don't trust it not to install the software if I don't already have it.

Re:Detecting and removing the rootkit by melgish · 2005-11-07 03:30 · Score: 1

If you carefully read Mark's blog's he describes how it can be done successfully. YMMV
Re:Detecting and removing the rootkit by Phreakiture · 2005-11-07 03:38 · Score: 1

Does anyone know how safely detect and remove this without relying on the Sony download? For some reason, I don't trust it not to install the software if I don't already have it.

Sure.... I'm not sure about detection, but format C: seems to be pretty good at removal :-P

Seriously, though, if you are at that level of paranoia (and I'm not knocking you for it if you are), you can backup your "stuff" and reinstall the OS. Personally, I'd like to recommend going to something non-windows, but that part is really up to you. I don't want to be the typical knee-jerking slashbot that says "use Linux" as the solution to every Windows problem...although I do use Linux almost exclusively...

You might also want to consider making periodic drive images in the future, so you can always "undo" to a certain point. I guess Ghost is the most commonly chosen app for this purpose. If you just put an image on a second or external drive every now and then, you have something to go back to.

--
www.wavefront-av.com
Re:Detecting and removing the rootkit by 91degrees · 2005-11-07 04:55 · Score: 1

I'm not quite at that level of paranoia. I'm not going to reinstall just because I could conceivably have a rootkit. The prctical reason is that it could easily come back without my knowledge, so the only way to be safe is never to play an audio CD in my machine, and reinstall each time I play something. Clearly not a practical option - the logical extreme is not to use the machine for any media or connect it to the internet at all. In whcih case I may as well not have the thing in the first place.
Re:Detecting and removing the rootkit by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 05:21 · Score: 0

I'm sure this will remove it.
Re:Detecting and removing the rootkit by 91degrees · 2005-11-07 05:37 · Score: 1

Yerrsss... I'd like to be a little more selective than that and only remove it is it's there.

30 comments and no "ET Phone Home" one yet by xmas2003 · 2005-11-07 02:31 · Score: 2, Funny

here 'ya go ... which raises an interesting question - what if ET tries to play a Sony CD - what is the timeout option for the "phone home" packet if the ping times are overly long?

--
Hulk SMASH Celiac Disease

I got a bad feeling about this... by altoz · 2005-11-07 02:32 · Score: 2, Insightful

I could see Sony continuing this with their memory sticks. What's to stop them from installing a rootkit anytime you got a digital camera or an mp3 player from them?

Re:I got a bad feeling about this... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 02:39 · Score: 0

> I could see Sony continuing this with their memory sticks.

Or a whole computer!

> What's to stop them from installing a rootkit anytime you got a digital
> camera or an mp3 player from them?

A non-Windows OS, generally.

"digged"? by noewun · 2005-11-07 02:33 · Score: 1

Is proper English that hard?

--
I am a believer of momentum and curves.

Re:"digged"? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 02:42 · Score: 1, Funny

It's a perfectly cromulent word.
Re:"digged"? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 03:13 · Score: 0, Funny

Is proper English that hard?

You must be new hear.
Re:"digged"? by bugbeak · 2005-11-07 03:26 · Score: 1

Yes.
Re:"digged"? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 04:08 · Score: 0

Is understanding someone that may not speak or write perfect that hard for you?
If so, I'd be more worried about your own lack of ability to comprehend and understand points with anything but 100% correct english (if there is such a thing) then your ability to point out incorrect use of words.

Its badder to no be able to comprehend...
Can you understand that?

Sony sues... Sony ! by timlewis_atlanta · 2005-11-07 02:33 · Score: 1, Funny

>>You can use the Sony rootkit itself to bypass their own DRM!"

Isn't that a DMCA violation ? Sony had better do something about this by suing ... uh ... Sony.

Apparently their new business model is something like this : (Cue Underpant Gnomes)

1. Release rootkit into the wild, including ability for it to bypass your own copy protection.
2. ?
3. Sue self into oblivion. Wait, shouldn't item 3 be "Profit" ?

Re:Sony sues... Sony ! by whathappenedtomonday · 2005-11-07 02:49 · Score: 1, Funny

3. Sue self into oblivion. Wait, shouldn't item 3 be "Profit" ?
No, better make item 3
3.) recursion: n., see recursion
This will keep them busy for years!

--
I hope I didn't brain my damage.

Are we really suprised? by 8127972 · 2005-11-07 02:38 · Score: 1

"Also on this topic, Matt Nikki in the comments section discovered that the DRM can be bypassed simply by renaming your favourite ripping program with "$sys$" at the start of the filename and ripping the CD using this file, which is now undetectable even by the Sony DRM. You can use the Sony rootkit itself to bypass their own DRM!"

This of course brought to you by the same people who brought out copy protection that was defeated by a magic marker.

--
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.

Re:NO you are WRONG by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 02:38 · Score: 1, Informative

What DRM? No autoplay, no EULA, no DRM.

Why would you do this? This is stupid. by Biotech9 · 2005-11-07 02:39 · Score: 4, Insightful

Matt Nikki in the comments section discovered that the DRM can be bypassed simply by renaming your favourite ripping program with "$sys$" at the start of the filename and ripping the CD using this file, which is now undetectable even by the Sony DRM. You can use the Sony rootkit itself to bypass their own DRM!"

All I've seen from people on this issue are ways to get around the DRM. Yes, there are MANY ways to get around it, audio line-out to a DAT or an iPod, using linux, a mac, CDex, Audiograbber, Audiohijack-pro...

But that is all just retarded, if you're buying this CD and you use it as Sony want you to use it, it is NO different than if you buy the CD and rip it with some workaround. Sony don't SEE a difference. The MP3s will be on DC++ anyway, it's not like they will lose sales to people ripping it for their iPods or whatever.

And if you do buy the CD, (regardless of wheter you rip it or not) you have just voted. Corporations are the Governments of today and with your purchase you vote. And buying any content protected CD regardless of what you do with it is a VOTE to Sony that DRM is acceptable to you. And that means next time it won't be some crappy nobody C&W CD that is taking over your PC, it'll be the big Sony acts. And then the big EMI acts and WB acts and so on.

Vote with your cash, buy non-DRM encumbered CDs or else just steal it. I'd prefer to take the moral issues and risk of stealing rather than just be Sony's bitch and install their shitty rootkit on my computer.

Re:Why would you do this? This is stupid. by xtracto · 2005-11-07 02:55 · Score: 1

Vote with your cash, buy non-DRM encumbered CDs or else just steal it. I'd prefer to take the moral issues and risk of stealing rather than just be Sony's bitch and install their shitty rootkit on my computer.

Or better yet, buy your music from cheaper and DRM-free places.

--
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
Re:Why would you do this? This is stupid. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 03:32 · Score: 0

If you buy from allofmp3, you may as well be just downloading* it from a p2p system. The artists make no money from this and you're still on dodgy legal ground. allofmp3 only exist because of a loophole in their local legal system which says that they're not liable if people use the site. They pocket the money themselves.

THIS IS NOT STEALING. Stealing requires someone to lose (not loose!) something. No one can claim loss of profits because that's implying I'd pay money for it in the first place. I'm sure there's some other opportunity to be even more pedantic but that should do for now.
Re:Why would you do this? This is stupid. by failure-man · 2005-11-07 03:36 · Score: 1

Or even more betterer, buy your music from a cheaper, DRM-free place that doesn't have the hidden cost of kneecaps broken by the russian mob. http://www.emusic.com/
Re:Why would you do this? This is stupid. by Have+Blue · 2005-11-07 04:25 · Score: 1

If you steal it, you will just strengthen their argument that piracy is a threat that must be countered by any means necessary. The correct reaction is to not obtain the music by any means. Let it be known that DRM makes music less desirable, not just the act of purchasing a CD.
Re:Why would you do this? This is stupid. by ajs318 · 2005-11-07 05:32 · Score: 1

..... if you're buying this CD and you use it as Sony want you to use it .....
And therein lies the rub. How I use a CD -- or, since it violates the Red Book standard, an optical disc containing digitised audio recordings -- that I bought with my own money that I earned by my own efforts is none of Sony's business. It certainly does not give them grounds to misuse a computer, commit aggravated trespass to chattels bordering on criminal damage or conduct illegal surveillance.

Sony need to be taught a lesson. They have committed a crime and must be punished. All the stuff about how to defeat the "protection" is just rubbing it in.

--
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
Re:Why would you do this? This is stupid. by FireFury03 · 2005-11-07 05:36 · Score: 1

If you steal it, you will just strengthen their argument that piracy is a threat that must be countered by any means necessary. The correct reaction is to not obtain the music by any means.

And how exactly do they tell the difference between someone stealing it and someone not buying it? Infact, they can't - they just equate a drop in sales to an increase in piracy.

--
http://blog.nexusuk.org
Re:Why would you do this? This is stupid. by Grym · 2005-11-07 12:25 · Score: 1

You know... it's even more retarded when you actually think about it because all it takes is ONE PERSON with a Mac or Linux computer to rip the track and put it on a P2P networks. Then the file is available to the masses... sans-DRM of course. (At which point, clueless, windows owners can then download the MP3s manually.)
Ridiculous.
I shudder to think how much funding went into this useless endevor. It's no wonder the record industry loses money!
-Grym
Re:Why would you do this? This is stupid. by Technician · 2005-11-07 21:39 · Score: 1

Vote with your cash, buy non-DRM encumbered CDs or else just steal it.

Bzzt.. Wrong

First part is right Vote with your cash, buy non-DRM encumbered CDs.

Second part or else just steal it.

is wrong. It should be.. do without.

Showing a title is popular by keeping the torrents busy with it is not the answer. Hitting the blogs with I ain't touching that because... is the answer. Let the artists and lables know why you are not interested. Then let the law of a free market fix the problem. If nobody ever bought a DRM'ed CD, we would not be having this discussion. Think about it. There were enough who voted for this to enable it. That's the real problem. Publicity is the fix. Make sure the masses know of the evil things this DRM does to break your Windows computer.

--
The truth shall set you free!

Re:The $sys$ prefixing thing was apparently wrong by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 02:40 · Score: 0

OOPS! It appears I was wrong about being able to hide the ripping software with $sys$ prefix! However, during my first test it DID work, so something's going on. Looks like I'll have to disassemble the damn thing to be sure.

# posted by Matti Nikki : 11:36 AM, November 06, 2005

WTF? by nurb432 · 2005-11-07 02:41 · Score: 1

So not only do they infect my PC, but now i have to get ads just to listen to some music?

--
---- Booth was a patriot ----

Re:The $sys$ prefixing thing was apparently wrong by bhtooefr · 2005-11-07 02:42 · Score: 1

Get yourself a trial of VMWare or Virtual PC, and throw Win2K on there.

That way, you'll have a sandbox to play in on a net connected machine.

Re:I wonder...NOT by BoRegardless · 2005-11-07 02:43 · Score: 2, Interesting

Lest anyone at Microsoft or Sony not understand why they don't "hear from my XP box"...

It is because the damned thing is NEVER allowed online!

And if and when I eventually go to VISTA, I won't allow it to go online either.

Microsoft has simply created an unbelievable amount of ill-will and lack of trust in me.

My Macs are the only thing I trust to go online, with the exception of running XP in emulation on my Mac.

cnet has a intresting article by Martix · 2005-11-07 02:45 · Score: 1

this i thought was intresting basicly says as a custumer your screwed. http://news.com.com/Why+they+say+spyware+is+good+f or+you/2010-1071_3-5934150.html

Re:cnet has a intresting article by IDontAgreeWithYou · 2005-11-07 04:44 · Score: 5, Funny

I emailed this post to your english teacher. She's dead now. Are you happy?

--
Finding other idiots on /. that agree with your opinion doesn't make it any less stupid.
Re:cnet has a intresting article by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 08:11 · Score: 0

Mr. Period? Is that you?

Re:The $sys$ prefixing thing was apparently wrong by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 02:46 · Score: 2, Interesting

Call me crazy, but why don't you use a prog from the magic list to rip a protected cd under the watch of ye ol rootkit? I'm sure it's intentions will be revealed!

Very backward thinking on Sony's part by mcgroarty · 2005-11-07 02:47 · Score: 5, Insightful

I'm no copyfighting warrior. I buy all my music because I enjoy supporting the industry that makes it available to me. That said, it sure seems to me that all Sony are doing here is removing the incentive to purchase their CDs. Not only do you face the possibility of not being able to rip as you please, but you face the possibility of screwing up your system by buying Sony CDs.

What's the goal here? To stop the people who buy CDs and rip copies for a few friends... by driving everybody to rely on safer online distribution exclusively?

Re:Very backward thinking on Sony's part by cplusplus · 2005-11-07 03:13 · Score: 1

I'm in the same boat, although I buy music to support the artists who create it, not necessarily the industry as a whole. Last weekend I listened to most of the new 'Guero' Beck album in a coffee shop, and liked what I heard. I was going to pick it up this week, but now I'm a little wary of purchasing anything from a Sony partner (in this case, Universal Music Group).

--
"False hope is why we'll never run out of natural resources!" - Lewis Black
Re:Very backward thinking on Sony's part by nmos · 2005-11-07 06:19 · Score: 1

What's the goal here? To stop the people who buy CDs and rip copies for a few friends... by driving everybody to rely on safer online distribution exclusively?

Agreed, they arn't stopping their music from appearing online, if anything it'll probably become more popular on the P2P networks. All they've done is to make their product less valuable than the pirated versions. That somehow seems backwards.
Re:Very backward thinking on Sony's part by Maltheus · 2005-11-07 10:07 · Score: 1

I'm getting dumbasses who know nothing about ripping sending me links about this story. Sony use to be a trusted name and they've been working hard this past year to piss that away. Between quality control and DRM issues, I'll likely never buy anything from Sony again. This dumb move can only result in an increase in piracy.

Remember when corporations were actually interested in making money? Remember when governments were about protecting their citizens? Remember when schools were about educating students? Remember when religions were about the message and not just the word? Remember when the media was suppose to be a watchdog on the rest? It just seems like everything is so ass-backward these days, that it's amazing we still manage to feed ourselves.

NPR had it... by DarkSarin · 2005-11-07 02:47 · Score: 2, Interesting

NPR had a story about this, and did a reasonable job of it. If they would cover it a few more times as things progress, maybe Sony will get the picture.

Currently I own 2 Sony products--a Clie and a Cybershot. If this kind of thing continues, however, I will make these my last Sony purchases of any kind.

There is a good reason that this matters, not just to us, but to everyone: Sony has obviously lied about their actions, and should be held responsible. If we as consumers don't stand up and say "stop", then this will get worse. Currently computers are very powerful, but with more and more of this crap, we will all soon need Cray's to run even the simplest game smoothly because of the myriad background services that are hogging resources. I've already decided that as soon as I can I will ditch Windows (all that I need is money to buy SPSS/SAS for linux, or the ability to run SPSS in wine, and I'm good)--for the same reasons.

If I get rid of windows, then sony can't pull this crap.

Finally, is there a non-Sony-provided version of an uninstaller for this crap? I don't trust them!

--
"We don't know what we are doing, but we are doing it very carefully,..." Wherry, R.J. Personnel Psychology (1995)

Re:NPR had it... by TheoMurpse · 2005-11-08 13:33 · Score: 1

Finally, is there a non-Sony-provided version of an uninstaller for this crap? I don't trust them!

Yes, you're in luck! Microsoft has provided a removal tool -- it's called Reinstall Your Copy of Windows!

Re:NO you are WRONG by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 02:47 · Score: 0

Just because it is illegal does not make it wrong.

Re:NO you are WRONG by meringuoid · 2005-11-07 02:48 · Score: 5, Insightful

It is illegal in this case, because you are bypassing Sony's DRM.

Ah, but you didn't say illegal, you said wrong. The equation of the two is perhaps the greatest threat to liberty in the modern world.

--
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.

One and only one thing to fix the problem by keraneuology · 2005-11-07 02:50 · Score: 5, Insightful

Anybody who buys any CD or DVD from Sony before a VP at Sony is fired over this bears direct responsibility for this. The ONLY thing that Sony will understand is a loss of business. Losing a lawsuit just won't cut it because their insurance company will bear the brunt of the loss.

If you care about this, then don't buy Sony games, music or movies. If you don't care about DRM and spyware issues then by all means go out and buy more product from them.

Is sending a clear message that you will not tolerate corporate abuses worth going a few months without shelling out $18 for a CD that has two decent tracks on it?

Accept nothing less - the public firing of the VP who oversaw the department that gave the green light to this - or no purchase of any Sony game, music or movie.

Personally I don't think enough people value unhacked systems enough to make the sacrifice. My prediction is that Sony will essentially get away with it, may have their insurance company pay a few settlement checks, and make a better attempt next time around. Or simply write enough checks to MS to ensure that the DRM is included in the Colonel (weak joke about a police state... sorry). And write enough checks to Motorola and Intel to make sure that DRM is included at the chip level. And write enough checks to US Senators to make sure that the law will back them up next time.

Again, the only recourse is to refuse to buy Sony products until a VP is fired. Nothing else will work.

--
If the g'vt kept the data on you that google does you'd better believe you'd be calling it "doing evil"

Re:One and only one thing to fix the problem by phil+reed · 2005-11-07 03:06 · Score: 2, Insightful

Also, be sure to let Sony know why you aren't buying their product. And, tell the artist why you won't be purchasing their CDs.

--

...phil
"For a list of the ways which technology has failed to improve our quality of life, press 3."
Re:One and only one thing to fix the problem by gihan_ripper · 2005-11-07 04:21 · Score: 1

This is a brilliant idea. Does anyone have contact information for the right people at Sony, so that we can let them know why we aren't buying their products?

--
Phoenix, Boston, Little Rock, see a pattern?
Re:One and only one thing to fix the problem by poot_rootbeer · 2005-11-07 04:33 · Score: 1

Losing a lawsuit just won't cut it because their insurance company will bear the brunt of the loss.

And then will raise Sony's premiums, just like any insurance company will do after any claim is paid out. So in exchange for doing something dumb that led to an unnecessary (from the corporate perspective) lawsuit, the corporation may end up having to pay more for business expenses in perpetuity.

Personally, I don't care if Sony tries to sneak malicious code onto the CD Audio discs I buy, because I've had "AutoRun" disabled on my Windows machines since 1996. As far as my computer is concerned, the media in the CD drive is just Red Book audio, and I'll do whatever the hell I want to it (within fair use).

For all the gloom and doom over the past few years about the content industry "writing enough checks" to buy the software industry, the hardware industry, and the government, we haven't really seen them have all that much success, have we? MY prediction is that the media cartel is not influential enough to get their way in the end.
Re:One and only one thing to fix the problem by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 04:34 · Score: 0

Errr.... isn't that just ammunition to their "piracy leads to losses" argument?
Re:One and only one thing to fix the problem by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 04:35 · Score: 0

>Again, the only recourse is to refuse to buy Sony products until a VP is >fired. Nothing else will work.
Screw the "VP is fired.."... Let's get the Board Of Directors and CEO.. That's what it really will take...
Re:One and only one thing to fix the problem by melgish · 2005-11-07 04:54 · Score: 1

"Personally, I don't care if Sony tries to sneak malicious code onto the CD Audio discs I buy, because I've had "AutoRun" disabled on my Windows machines since 1996. As far as my computer is concerned, the media in the CD drive is just Red Book audio, and I'll do whatever the hell I want to it (within fair use)."
Unfortunatly this is exactly what Sony is counting on... If enough people don't care, they win... By default it will become acceptable for corporations to install whatever they hell they want on YOUR PC. There is a MUCH bigger issue lurking here, and everyone need to take notice of that.
Re:One and only one thing to fix the problem by Kent+Recal · 2005-11-07 05:06 · Score: 1

sure. please direct your complaints to aibo@sony.com
Re:One and only one thing to fix the problem by iabervon · 2005-11-07 05:56 · Score: 1

It depends on the exact lawsuit they lose. If it's just a product liability lawsuit, it's not that big a deal. If the court (or the insurance company) is convinced that the software was designed to damage your computer, that's not covered by insurance. The court could also issue useful orders, such as prohibiting Sony from installing things on people's computers or using DRM; this is also a possible outcome of a settlement, and their insurance company would probably push for them to accept a settlement.
Re:One and only one thing to fix the problem by yeremein · 2005-11-07 06:45 · Score: 1

Forget "fired". I want to see indicted.
Re:One and only one thing to fix the problem by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 07:54 · Score: 0

I used to be a Sony-only type of person. Sony telephone, Sony ES audio equipment, Sony Wega XBR TV, Sony Playstation 2, etc. Up until this disaster, I had been eagerly awaiting the Playstation 3.

Well I'm now anti-Sony. I will not buy another Sony product until they've issued a public apology -AND- removed all the offending products from the shelves -AND- financially compensated the victims.

p.s. When I go on strike against something, I mean it. I was waiting for Halflife 2, but I've refused to even see it on other peoples' machines since it has steam. If thye release a non-phone-home version of halflife 2, I'll be all over it! :):)
Re:One and only one thing to fix the problem by Clemensa · 2005-11-07 08:00 · Score: 1

"Again, the only recourse is to refuse to buy Sony products until a VP is fired. Nothing else will work." I agree - to an extent. Do you *really* believe that your senior managers need to know every technical detail of every product you have? I don't. They are there to manage, not to know the minutae of code. I suspect in Sony's case, some high up manager said "make sure our new CDs have some sort of copy protection on them" to one of his minions. From there, the message got passed down the chain, maybe through 5 or 6 people. Yes, the buck stops at the top, but is firing really the solution? Will firing a VP or two actually make a difference? Maybe. Maybe not. I'm not advocating what Sony have done - I think it's absolutely appalling. I also expect to see a lot of virii and spyware writers jump on the back of this and begin to copycat Sony - and things are bad enough already. I think one of the things Sony SHOULD do is issue a statement saying they made a mistake and that they are sorry. I also think that they should release a patch freely available on their website - none of this silly sign-up-an-email address cr*p. Will that happen? Who knows...
Re:One and only one thing to fix the problem by keraneuology · 2005-11-07 13:08 · Score: 1

Do you *really* believe that your senior managers need to know every technical detail of every product you have? I don't. They are there to manage, not to know the minutae of code. I suspect in Sony's case, some high up manager said "make sure our new CDs have some sort of copy protection on them" to one of his minions. From there, the message got passed down the chain, maybe through 5 or 6 people. Yes, the buck stops at the top, but is firing really the solution? Will firing a VP or two actually make a difference?

Yes, firing a VP or two will actually make a difference. For as much money as these people make - and for as little work they actually do - they can, nay, should be required to accept the responsibility of their actions. If they rubber stamp an action plan without fully understanding it then let them accept the blame. That they don't understand the technical aspects of the DRM is irrelevant - they should know what it does and, more importantly, how Sony's customers may react. If a VP is expected to do nothing but sit around, blindly stamp approval on projects not understood, then accept no blame or responsibility of anything that goes wrong, why is it in the cushy office?
Fire just one VP at Sony over this and send a message to industry - I guarantee that corporations around the world will start to pay attention to what the top execs are actually doing. (Or not doing as is usually the case.)

--
If the g'vt kept the data on you that google does you'd better believe you'd be calling it "doing evil"

Sonys time at an end by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 02:52 · Score: 0

They were a great company but the time for boycott has arrived. I bid them a good day.

Violating my trust by installing rootkits and monitoring my listening habits is unacceptable and should be illegal. Now I have to use RKR to go see how many of PCs have been damaged by their fiendish malware.

Don't buy Sony products? by bigberk · 2005-11-07 02:53 · Score: 3, Insightful

Isn't the solution pretty simple? Anyone surprised that Sony is pulling shit like this? They're one of the major members of the RIAA, MPAA, CRIA... Don't be a stupid consumer -- it's ridiculous to both spend your money on something that upsets you, only to get upset more. Warn your family against Sony products

Re:Don't buy Sony products? by mihalis · 2005-11-07 03:42 · Score: 1

No, the solution is NOT that simple. Sony may be overly fond of restricting user's rights, however they also have some essential and compelling products. For example simply giving up the Epic, Legacy, Sony-BMG etc music labels is not an option for me. Similarly I have two of their camcorders and they're great. Particularly the HDR-FX1 (high-def 3-ccd camcorder) is a great product and doesn't limit my rights in any discernable way. I also love my Playstation 2 and PSP. In the past i had a fancy cassette walkman which was also a great (if expensive) product.
Personally, I feel a company like Sony is going to be more persuaded by someone with a receipt in hand complaining about a product they purchased from them than anything else. If I were to always choose the competition, they might think it was due to features and/or price, not DRM type issues.
Re:Don't buy Sony products? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 04:37 · Score: 0

Exactly.

Don't buy the PS3 either, who knows what those pieces of shit are going to do.

Common sense violation? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 02:56 · Score: 3, Informative

Don't get your panties in a wad, genius. The LAME string exists because that is one of the pirate programs that the DRM software specifically looks for. Simply having the string in your program doesn't make it a LGPL violation. That would be LAME.

Duh.

Re:Common sense violation? by muzzy · 2005-11-07 03:08 · Score: 5, Informative

Go and check it yourself, and compare to lame sources. The data from tables.c is included in the executable in identical form (several large tables), also all the version strings are included, which the DRM system doesn't check.

The data is there, the big question is if it was linked accidently, or if it actually uses LAME code as well.

--
-- Matti Nikki
Re:Common sense violation? by cortana · 2005-11-07 03:29 · Score: 1

Doesn't it? It seems pretty clear to me that the Sony rootkit is a derived work of LAME. Perhaps the LAME copyright holders should ask Sony why the LAME source code does not appear on the CD?
Re:Common sense violation? by hey! · 2005-11-07 03:42 · Score: 2, Informative

Well, this is the same argument SCO made about, was it errnos.h or some such?

Copyright covers expression, not data or collections of data.

--
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Re:Common sense violation? by Vo0k · 2005-11-07 03:55 · Score: 1

No, it's not derived.
The code of LAME is not used as software, but as sample ("fingerprint") data. They aren't distributing the program, just certain metadata associated with it, using it strictly for informational purposes.

--
Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
Re:Common sense violation? by Thud457 · 2005-11-07 04:55 · Score: 1

It you want to get pedantic, isn't any such "fingerprint" a derived work?

--
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Re:Common sense violation? by Vo0k · 2005-11-07 05:27 · Score: 1

Yes, but it's not derived software. Just data.
You are free to write a book about Linux and release it on proprietary conditions, even if it contains sniplets of source. Still GPL covers only software, derived works in other domains are out of its scope.

--
Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
Re:Common sense violation? by shutdown+-p+now · 2005-11-07 05:31 · Score: 1

Strings and other static data are simply easier to find. But it is a good sign that you should go ahead and keep looking for the code as well.
Re:Common sense violation? by nmos · 2005-11-07 05:38 · Score: 1

Well, this is the same argument SCO made about, was it errnos.h or some such?

Except of course that SCO had full access to the Linux source code so they could see for themselves if it was just the header files that were similar or if that was just the "tip of the iceberg".
Re:Common sense violation? by BandwidthHog · 2005-11-07 05:43 · Score: 1

the Sony rootkit is a derived work of LAME.

LAME, as in the MP3 encoder that sounds so much better than Xing? How and/or why would one use that as the basis for any sort of rootkit and/or trojan?

Or am I, as is so often the case, missing something?

--

Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Re:Common sense violation? by cortana · 2005-11-07 05:59 · Score: 1

No idea. :) Someone else pointed out that it probably just has the strings so that it can fingerprint programs running on the host PC.
Re:Common sense violation? by muzzy · 2005-11-07 07:00 · Score: 2, Interesting

Well, since the version strings in question are generated by macros when version.c is compiled, it is 100% clear that the translation units containing lame code have been statically linked against the exe. Most if not all of it has been removed by optimizing compiler, though, so there's the POTENTIAL for violation if any of the code remains and is used. Either way, I'd like to know why it was linked. That's pretty difficult to do by accident, really...

--
-- Matti Nikki
Re:Common sense violation? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 08:54 · Score: 0

Maybe it's included so that it can detect the LAME dll, which is used for MP3 encoding, and shutdown any app that tries to use it.
Re:Common sense violation? by Reziac · 2005-11-07 10:02 · Score: 1

On a similar note, I wonder if the DRM is built from an opensource rootkit? and if so, isn't this a violation of the original's source license?

Side thought: if the DRM authors were lazy and based their product on an available rootkit instead of writing their own -- what unknown backdoors might the DRM inherit from the original rootkit?

--
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?

Re:I wonder...NOT by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 02:57 · Score: 0

It is because the damned thing is NEVER allowed online!

Sorry, if you can post on /. our rootkit can access the sony.net (tm) as well.

Sony backlash by Chowser · 2005-11-07 02:58 · Score: 1

I'm really wondering with the recent rootkit/DRM Sony news if this will result in any substantial backlash against Sony. In particular, I'm curious how this will factor into the next gen high def DVD wars, since Sony is an obvious big player in the Blu-ray camp. I used to be pro Blu-ray but now with this recent news I find myself agreeing with the HD-DVD camp more and more. Do we really want Sony heading up any major future electronic standards?

--
sig here

Re:Sony backlash by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 04:25 · Score: 0

I'm warning family and friends away from Sony, but that's just spit in the ocean compared to what needs to be done. TV news crews picturing large placard-carrying groups protesting outside of Walmart and Best Buy stores across the country handing out "Sony Is Stealing From YOU!" leaflets on the day after Thanksgiving, now that's what needs to happen to make them feel the pain.

Thanks Sony for launching me into the digital age. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 02:59 · Score: 0

I used to only by CDs because I liked having somthing physical to hold in my hands after spending money on music. I only used itunes to catalog my ripped CD collection. Thanks to your efforts at treating me like a criminal and trying to infect my machine with software I didn't ask for, I am now a full fledged iTunes customer.

I can't belive I waited this long. No longer am I buying a whole album for a few good songs. I am now spending my money more wisely buying just the tracks I like. For this I thank you!

No, no. DMCA requires "effective" protection. by OmniGeek · 2005-11-07 03:00 · Score: 1

Circumvention is only a crime if one circumvents a technological measure that effectively protects copyrighted content. Show of hands, folks: Anyone think this brain-dead scheme is "effective?" ... ... Thought not. RIAA, you can put your hand down now, nobody else has theirs up.

A scheme that's foiled by simply not using autorun is hardly effective, and it would be difficult even to convince a jury of 12 typical cheeseheads that it is.

--

"My strength is as the strength of ten men, for I am wired to the eyeballs on espresso."

Re:No, no. DMCA requires "effective" protection. by Thud457 · 2005-11-07 03:59 · Score: 1

What kind of mouth-breather would be running Windows with AutoRun enabled?
Oh, wait, probably the same ones that would buy a crippled "CD" like this. Carry on.

--
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Re:No, no. DMCA requires "effective" protection. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 05:36 · Score: 0

Everone who knows what "effectively" means, step forward. Not so fast OnmiGeek.

why is this even possible? by egburr · 2005-11-07 03:00 · Score: 3, Insightful

One thing I haven't seen addressed (or maybe I just misseid it?) is WHY it is even possible to implement this "feature" of being able to hide a process by adding the $sys$ prefix. That sounds like a severe bug in Windows.

This "rootkit" doesn't even have to be present now that the virus/trojan/spyware writers know it is possible. Re-implementing this feature would just be one of the first steps of installation. Shouldn't people be demanding a fix for this from Microsoft?

--

Edward Burr
Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.

Re:why is this even possible? by xtracto · 2005-11-07 03:15 · Score: 1

No, I think Windows is not to blame now:

1. Log in usen your OS admin password (Linux/Windows)
2. Insert a CD
3. Execute a program which alters CD drive functionality
4. Hide all trace the program.
5. Disable some OS functions.

I guess points from 3 to 5 would not be possible if point 1 was not there. But then again, that is the nature of TROJANS, when you run them, they appear to be something else, and they do malicious things once installed.

To give an example, imagine you buy Quake 5 game for Linux, and to install it you need to at certain point have root privileges (I think on most Linux distros you MUST have root privs to install a RPM).

If you had downloaded the .ISO from a pirate bay, you would be worried, but if you BOUGHT the DVD from BestBuy or any other store you would expect that the program will do no harm.

--
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
Re:why is this even possible? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 03:17 · Score: 0

The rootkit involves actually modifying the operating system kernel itself --- It is effectively patching the operating system so that any time an application asks for the contents of a directory, it will filter out anything beginning in '$sys$'. This is not something Microsoft can fix themselves, as any such 'fix' could just be 'unfixed' by the rootkit. While ever users insist on running with Administrator priviledges, such rootkits will always be possible.
Re:why is this even possible? by nick8325 · 2005-11-07 03:20 · Score: 5, Informative

The rootkit installs a driver. In Windows (as in Linux and Mac OS X), lots of drivers (but not all) run in kernel mode. In particular, this one does. There is nothing to stop code running in kernel mode from doing anything it likes with the machine - it is running with the highest possible privileges.

In this case, the rootkit patches the system call table, so that calls to functions to look at directory contents are intercepted by the driver, which just pretends that no files starting with $sys$ exist.

There is nothing that Windows can do to stop drivers from doing this while they run in kernel mode. It can make it harder to do, though - I think the 64-bit versions of Windows check the system call table and blue screen if they find it's been changed. To get around that, the driver would either have to take over from Windows completely (not too practical) or find the code that checked the system call table and patch it.

Of course, you do need to have the right privileges to install a driver in order to install this rootkit. Usually, that means being an adminstrator.
Re:why is this even possible? by GIL_Dude · 2005-11-07 03:27 · Score: 1

Maybe you missed out, but rootkits were something developed for Unix first. They've been around a long time on both Unix and Windows and have always been difficult to detect. Maybe we should be demanding a fix - but it would be from just about all the OS makers out there.
Re:why is this even possible? by cortana · 2005-11-07 03:34 · Score: 2, Informative

The fix is to upgrade to amd64. I believe Windows on amd64 does not allow patching of the kernel function call table (#include correct technobabble here).
Re:why is this even possible? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 03:44 · Score: 0

+4 insightful? More like -1: Troll..

'Rootkits' can be and have been programmed for virtually every operating system out there.
Re:why is this even possible? by Kjella · 2005-11-07 04:24 · Score: 1

To get around that, the driver would either have to take over from Windows completely (not too practical) or find the code that checked the system call table and patch it.

if ( systemCallTableModified ) { bluescreen() }?
I imagine there'll be a ! applied soon...

Of course, you do need to have the right privileges to install a driver in order to install this rootkit. Usually, that means being an adminstrator.

In other words, that means being a common user ;)

--
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Re:why is this even possible? by MemeRot · 2005-11-07 04:51 · Score: 2, Informative

One of the comments on the sysinternals story was from someone with a 64-bit system. He said the next time he rebooted, after installing this program his cd and dvd drives were not visible in Windows. He did admit that it was very effective copy protection, but wasn't very pleased that his gaming system had no usable optical drives.

NOT GOOD FOR 64bit USERS, October 9, 2005
Reviewer: tvideo (NJ, USA) - See all my reviews
Since, I don't care about stealing any music, the "Copy Protected" warning didn't bother me in the least. I am a Hardcore gamer I have a high end 64bit PC running Windows XP Pro. The CD claims it is compatible with Windows XP, it does NOT specify which versions so I assumed I was OK.

I installed this CD and I was forced to accept some agreement and then it installed some lousy music player. Everything seemed fine until next time I rebooted my PC both my DVD and CD drives had literally disappeared! That's right this so-called copy protection destroyed access to my drives!!! The copy protection REALLY works great they just disable all your CD/DVD drives so you can't use them with ANY discs anymore - UNBELIEVABLE!!!
Re:why is this even possible? by sjames · 2005-11-07 05:08 · Score: 2, Interesting

In this case, the rootkit patches the system call table, so that calls to functions to look at directory contents are intercepted by the driver, which just pretends that no files starting with $sys$ exist.

This raises a few good questions. First, how long will it be before someone uses this to hide their virus/worm/trojan (besides Sony that is)? Or for that matter, just creates a 30 gig file called $sys$ThereGoesYourFreeSpaceSuckerFindItIfYouCan?

2. Other than the lack of DAs falling over themselves to get this to a grand jury, how does it differ from what a teen in Iowa might release?

3. What are the implications for secured networks (corporate or government)? Playing a commercial audio CD on a desktop computer is supposed to be safe, but thanks to Sony, it now has security implications. Perhaps DoD and others should consider banning any Sony CD from the workplace?
Re:why is this even possible? by jsebrech · 2005-11-07 06:18 · Score: 1

Of course, you do need to have the right privileges to install a driver in order to install this rootkit. Usually, that means being an adminstrator.

Which raises a basic question: when will microsoft finally make it possible to run your desktop apps in windows as a regular user, not as administrator, without having to resort to extreme geekery? Every modern desktop operating system out there, except windows, runs stuff as a regular user already.
Re:why is this even possible? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 06:35 · Score: 0

If you don't understand what a rootkit is and how it works, please don't comment. We have enough mindless Windows bashing as it is. Hint: where do you think the "root" in the name "rootkit" came from? This is not something exclusive to the Windows world.
Re:why is this even possible? by typidemon · 2005-11-07 20:07 · Score: 1

That works for people who understand what is going on, or for businesses who have an admin. Have you ever seen a Mac OS/X user at home? They will type their root password when promted without even looking (ok not all of them, but many generic non-nerdy ones do).
While remove general users out of the admin space is a great thing, I don't think it will have the effect you desire :(

Could this be the start of something? by b06r011 · 2005-11-07 03:01 · Score: 1

I've always thought that at some point the iPod - clad non techie masses will run head first into the full force of someone's DRM. they don't want to know about prefixing things with $sys$, analogue extraction or using anything other than their favourite media player to load their tunes onto an MP3 player. and they want to know why their cd doesn't work. at this point, it might all hit the public domain and suddenly sony / any other label have a big problem on their hands as they get £1000's of pounds worth of free, bad, publicity. and so close to christmas too...

as an aside, i have a thought which many readers here might find horryfying. when MS / Apple release their new hardware / software, we have this all over again. who is MAKING you buy their new products? maybe if everyone votes with their respective unit of currency we can force them to not load all this crap onto us. you don't always have to have the latest stuff. and at what price?

this is all backwards - we pay them... so why do we take all the crap?

i will now return to the place where all this has already happened... my imaginary world. my imaginary world has no relation to the real world...

Bull by flogger · 2005-11-07 03:03 · Score: 3, Interesting

No information is ever fed back or collected about the consumer or their activities

If I play this CD and it "phones home", then "they" know

I have played the CD
if I need a new banner
they know where to Send it to
they know how often I listen to it (via how many times I've checked for a new banner

I say Bull. There is a lot that can be said about me based on the idea that this rootkit phones home.

--
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"First things first -- but not necessarily in that order"
-- The Doctor, "Doctor

The more you tighten your grip... by voice_of_all_reason · 2005-11-07 03:04 · Score: 1

the more users will slip through your fingers...

Re:NO you are WRONG by Orgazmus · 2005-11-07 03:06 · Score: 1

Oh, how i wish i had 5 accounts with modpoints. I would have given them all to you.

--
The system had the verbosity of HTML combined with all the readability of compiled assembly viewed as bitmap images

LIFETIME BOYCOTT by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 03:09 · Score: 0

That's it.

I will not buy Sony music, Sony HDTVs, or any other Sony Electronics or products!

Kiss a lifetime of revenue streams Goodbye.

Sony isn't #1 anymore anyway, Samsung makes better electronics.

Panasonic and Sharp crush Sony in the quality of their HDTVs and other
home electonics.

Sony - a walkman one hit wonder from the 80s.

Stick a fork in 'em, they're done.

Re:LIFETIME BOYCOTT by bhtooefr · 2005-11-07 03:17 · Score: 1

Same here.

Also, take a look at my sig.

Oh, and the XBox 360 is going to kick the PS3's ass.

SONY IS EVIL!
Re:LIFETIME BOYCOTT by kalislashdot · 2005-11-07 04:25 · Score: 1

I have to agree, but to a point. I also used to boycott Amazon due to there lame patents. I used to be a big Sony man, everything I owned was Sony. they made some good stuff. sony TV, Surround sound, Car stereo, etc. Now they are just overpriced.

For example when I got the last TV it came down to a Sony Wega or a Panasonic Tau. Both had the flat CRT and all the specs lined up really well. The difference. Sony was several hundred dollars more. $500 for the panasonic, $750 for the Sony. The last thing I bought Sony was my DirecTiVo, SAT-T60.

I will not go all the way to "Boycott Sony" as with every purchase I will evaluate all the choices, but things like this really but a bad mark on them.
Re:LIFETIME BOYCOTT by pintpusher · 2005-11-07 04:35 · Score: 1

Oh, and the XBox 360 is going to kick the PS3's ass.

Sony PS3... Microsoft XBox...
Sony PS3... Microsoft XBox...
Sony PS3... Microsoft XBox...
Sony PS3... Microsoft XBox...
Sony PS3... Microsoft XBox...
Sony PS3... Microsoft XBox...
Sony PS3... Microsoft XBox...
Sony PS3... Microsoft XBox...
Sony PS3... Microsoft XBox...

Ack! Choose your evil.

--
man, I feel like mold.
Re:LIFETIME BOYCOTT by bhtooefr · 2005-11-07 05:01 · Score: 1

Well, I have three categories for companies that produce IP (be it software, music, or movies).

The first category is those companies that I respect totally. This category includes companies such as Opera Software ASA. Anyway, I will buy IP from a company in this category, and refuse to pirate it. Heck, I may even try to get ways to give money to the company without even buying the product, as is the case with Opera (the product is free).

The second category is companies that I have enough respect for to use their products, but not any more than that. I don't want them to have (much of) my money. Microsoft is in this category. Rarely will I purchase MS software (exceptions include MS Streets & Trips, which is fairly priced and works very well for what it's made for), but I'll pirate it.

The third category is companies that I have zero respect for whatsoever. I won't even give these companies the privilege of their stuff touching my hard drive, even by piracy. Sony (and, for that matter, the music arms of the companies who are part of the RIAA - so Sony BMG was already part of this) is included in this category. That's right, I don't even pirate RIAA stuff - I don't want to spread it at all.

It's Matti Nikki, by usv · 2005-11-07 03:09 · Score: 1, Funny

you insensitive clod!

Re:The $sys$ prefixing thing was apparently wrong by muzzy · 2005-11-07 03:13 · Score: 5, Interesting

It won't install under Virtual PC. It requires that the CD is in drive during installation, and doesn't detect this to be the case when using Virtual PC. It probably just can't handle multisession CDs...

Anyway, as a bonus, even though the rootkit doesn't install in virtual PC, it still calls home and tells sony about you :)

--
-- Matti Nikki

Re:The $sys$ prefixing thing was apparently wrong by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 03:18 · Score: 0

Did you try ripping the cd to an ISO first and using that in vmware?

Re:The $sys$ prefixing thing was apparently wrong by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 03:25 · Score: 0

The audio tracks on a CD isn't stored in a ISO9660 filesystem, so that won't work.

Re:The $sys$ prefixing thing was apparently wrong by bhtooefr · 2005-11-07 03:26 · Score: 1

Hmm... well, it was worth a shot...

I'm going ahead and warning everybody I know about this, though...

Hopefully, Sony can be stopped.

I'm seriously tempted to get one of these, except it's only a PlayStation logo...

Re:The $sys$ prefixing thing was apparently wrong by muzzy · 2005-11-07 03:28 · Score: 5, Insightful

Btw, Since distracting CD-ROM functionality by randomizing the signal a little seems to be "OK", you can expect the record companies to target P2P apps with future DRM systems. If it's OK to screw your system and ripping software, it's going to be ok to screw your p2p if they think you're sharing their stuff. This kind of malware along with DRM is a slippery slope, and you'll never know where it ends if you tolerate it even a little.

--
-- Matti Nikki

How to make this go away.... by MooseTick · 2005-11-07 03:39 · Score: 1

Here is how the public can put an end to this type of scheme. As someone earlier noted, this is software that is installed without warning or the user's knowlege or permission. That qualifies it as a trojan. That alone is bad. Now if someone were to determine a way that it has or can potentially damage data on a system, then it seems Sony could/would be liable for such damage. Most software has lots of disclaimers in their EULA, but since there is no EULA, Sony can't say they warned you.

Another tactic would be to make a game/application that detects the rootkit was installed and then it causes some minor harm. Again, Sony would bear some of that responsibility since they installed software without a user's permission or knowlege that caused damage due to its presence.

If one of those scenerios were to take place, it would likely scare Sony and other music suppliers from covertly pulling future schemes of this nature. They will still likely continue to use DRM, which is their right, but only overtly with lots of warnings and possible explanations of how they work so as to minimize their liability from future complications like the ones mentioned above.

--
Ninjas don't carry tic tacs

Re:How to make this go away.... by pintpusher · 2005-11-07 04:31 · Score: 1

But they'll pay for the damages in a class action settlement several years from now. By that time, the $ value of the settlement will be considerably smaller in future $ and the insurance company will likely pay it anyway. No problem.

Business Model:

1. Make crappy crap and sell the crap out of it.

2. Profit!!

3. ??

4. Maybe pay some profit back a long time from now.

--
man, I feel like mold.

That can't be right by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 03:39 · Score: 0

If it wasn't in a standard file system, it wouldn't work on a Mac or Linux PC.

This is just a game they're playing with sessions on the disk.

Re:That can't be right by jtev · 2005-11-07 04:26 · Score: 4, Informative

It's called Red Book. It's a different "file" system than ISO 9660. It is standard, but it's not rippable as an ISO image.

--
That which is done from love exists beyond good and evil
Re:That can't be right by SirPavlova · 2005-11-07 05:05 · Score: 1

Why can't it be ripped as an ISO image? Isn't an ISO technically just a raw binary dump of the CD contents, which just happens to usually include an ISO 9660 file system?

--
Yar.
Re:That can't be right by ymgve · 2005-11-07 05:16 · Score: 1

ISO images can only contain a single track. Since Red Book requires multiple tracks, you can't have that format in a ISO image.
Re:That can't be right by HTL2001 · 2005-11-07 05:18 · Score: 1

I think you're refering to bin/cue

--
By reading this, you have given me brief control of your mind.
Re:That can't be right by SirPavlova · 2005-11-07 05:55 · Score: 1

Indeed I was... I thought they were the same thing under different names. Thanks.

--
Yar.
Re:That can't be right by SirPavlova · 2005-11-07 06:00 · Score: 1

So when I rip a .iso of an audio CD, I'm actually ripping a misnamed .bin? Righto... oh well, thanks.

--
Yar.
Re:That can't be right by WWWWolf · 2005-11-07 06:02 · Score: 1

Well, most operating systems have stuff in place to read ISO9660 file systems either directly (mount /mnt/cdrom) or via direct device access (dd if=/dev/cdrom of=cdrom.iso). Audio CDs are different: you can't access the raw data *really* accurately due to lack of correction information present on the disk. (This is a non-issue in CD players, but relevant if you do a digital copy.) Which is why you need monstrous amounts of error-correcting logic in software, like in cdparanoia, and why a CD ripped on two different drives - or even on one drive in different ripper software version, or even just at different time - may not be bitwise identical.

Also, ISO files have only the data of one track of the disk with its filesystem contents; it doesn't have the physical disk layout stored anywhere. If you rip a CD in its raw form, you end up with multiple files, .iso for the data tracks and .cdr for audio tracks and whatnot. Or, you can put the raw data in one file and description of the layout in another (think of bin/cue), but it's no longer an ISO image you can mount on loopback, and if you burn it you need to make sure the burner understands the format!
Re:That can't be right by Drakonite · 2005-11-07 11:36 · Score: 1

Isn't an ISO technically just a raw binary dump of the CD contents, which just happens to usually include an ISO 9660 file system?
No, an .iso image is technically just an image of an ISO 9660 filesystem. Use of the term .iso to refer to raw binary dumps of CDs or any other binary images that are not strictly an iso 9660 filesystem are technically incorrect.

--
Shoot Pixels, Not People!
Re:That can't be right by SirPavlova · 2005-11-07 14:51 · Score: 1

OK then; thanks.

--
Yar.
Re:That can't be right by SirPavlova · 2005-11-07 15:02 · Score: 1

Now I want to go & find how all of the different image formats work. Don't think I'd manage it though - too many. Anyway thanks for clearing that up.

--
Yar.

DNS blacklisting by Etyenne · 2005-11-07 03:44 · Score: 1

Would it be possible to simply blacklist in DNS the server this rootkit is phoning home to ? Here, problem solved.

--
:wq

Firewall? by modi123 · 2005-11-07 03:44 · Score: 2, Interesting

My question is will my firewall detect this activity, and can I block it? I guess I am not 100% down with how a rootkit operates, but if an internal-to-outside connection is made my firewall *should* pick it up right?

I am using ZoneAlarm if anyone wants to know.

Re:Firewall? by bhtooefr · 2005-11-07 04:21 · Score: 1

Well, yes, the rootkit does make a connection outside.

However, the damage isn't the data it sends, it's the damage it does to the CD subsystem of Windows, and the security flaws.

Also, a process whose name begins with $sys$ might not be noticed by your firewall.
Re:Firewall? by modi123 · 2005-11-07 04:36 · Score: 1

Ok, I figured my firewall would notify me of ANY connection... and with this particular article about 'phoning home', I thought I could prevent access to the outside world via firewalls..

tsk.. so it goes..

Does anyone think firewall makers might start trying to pick up $sys$ connections and at least give me the chance of blocking them? (yes, I understand the implications of having $sys$ prefixed files running hidden, but I am only concerned - with this post - on how to stop inbound/outbound connections from these rootkits).
Re:Firewall? by bhtooefr · 2005-11-07 05:06 · Score: 1

ZoneAlarm MIGHT catch it, seeing as the TrueVector Security Engine runs at kernel level, IIRC, layering itself into the network stack much as this rootkit layers itself into the CD-ROM drivers. It depends on whether aries.sys loads before or after ZA, though, AFAICT.

(Of course, given a VM and a copy of this rootkit, we can see what this will do without compromising a real system...)

Re:The $sys$ prefixing thing was apparently wrong by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 03:45 · Score: 0

It looks like it is looking for the filename you are running and then either looking at the running proccess names or scanning the windows titles.

Re:The $sys$ prefixing thing was apparently wrong by Richard_J_N · 2005-11-07 03:48 · Score: 2, Informative

An alternative to VMWARE is the excellent, and free QEMU.

Now I'd just love... by Vo0k · 2005-11-07 03:50 · Score: 4, Funny

to see the kit added to major antivirus detection list.

Trojan detected: WIN32.DrmSony.SPY@mm - Threat: medium; class: Spyware, Rootkit, OS-damage.
Known to cause CD drive malfunction, secretly uploads third party data, prevents certain userspace programs from running, hides from the OS, installs itself without user consent.
OS infection prevented.
Warning: E:\ Volume is Read-Only. The virus cannot be removed (cause: Data written to non-erasable CD.)
Recommendation: Back up all non-infected data from the medium by re-burning it to a new blank CD, destroy infected disk.

--
Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"

Re:Now I'd just love... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 04:24 · Score: 2, Informative

I think it would be great to see something like this.

I was running Symantec Antivirus 10.0 Corporate and had the client installed on my gaming box. Afterwards I tried to loadup both GameSpy3D and GameSpy Arcade. Of course the antivirus software detects both of them as adware, and removes the entire program. OK, I think, maybe I will try to add it to my ignore list. So I do this, and with GameSpy3D it still completely removes the program, and with Arcade it keeps removing my profile. I have no idea why it detects these programs as Adware.. granted they can have ads, but I have the registered copy which has ads disabled. Nevertheless, I quickly reverted back to Symantec 9.0.

If you see crap like this in spyware definitions, there is no reason why Sony's rootkit shouldn't be in there either.
Re:Now I'd just love... by DotWarner · 2005-11-07 05:26 · Score: 5, Informative

Hope you weren't joking.
Re:Now I'd just love... by The+Master+Control+P · 2005-11-07 05:45 · Score: 2, Insightful

I love their 'removal' instructions... "Go to Sony and download the newer version of the rootkit." WTF over?

Dear Symantec: To remove a rootkit does not mean to install an updated version of it. This piece of malware is no different than any other, I want it OFF MY SYSTEM.
Re:Now I'd just love... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-08 02:58 · Score: 0

Here is another: http://nvd.nist.gov/nvd.cfm?cvename=CVE-2005-3474

Gah! Idiot moderators! by Lifewish · 2005-11-07 03:52 · Score: 1

That was supposed to be funny, dammit! FUNNY! ...Or at least I sincerely hope it was :-/

--
For the love of God, please learn to spell "ridiculous"!!!

Re:NO you are WRONG by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 03:53 · Score: 0

Nice pull of the 'liberty' strings there, you got your mod points, but you are still incorrect. Ripping this CD is both illegal and wrong; if you bought this CD, you entered into a contract with Sony, and by ripping it, you are breaking your side of the contract, which is wrong in every sense. You can't justify ripping this CD, but please go on rationalising it, if it makes you feel better.

Re:The $sys$ prefixing thing was apparently wrong by strider44 · 2005-11-07 03:57 · Score: 1

I'm really sorry about this mate. I *did* read all of the comments but I completely missed your retraction comment the first time around. Only *after* I submitted the news article did I see the other comment you made saying you can't reproduce it, and I couldn't figure out any way of modifying the news post. I just totally knew that the editors would pick my submission as soon as I saw the other comment.

So easy by tcatt · 2005-11-07 04:00 · Score: 2, Insightful

to see where this will go.. how long before your cd has to dial into an advertising scheme of some sort before you can listen to to the music you paid for.

--
[I have no name!:/]# _

violation of federal privacy laws by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 04:00 · Score: 0

Aren't programs that secretly "phone home" considered a violation of federal privacy laws as well as consumer protection laws? Depending on who and where it occurs I can even see possible endangerment of our national security here...

Re:NO you are WRONG by meringuoid · 2005-11-07 04:05 · Score: 4, Insightful

Nice pull of the 'liberty' strings there, you got your mod points, but you are still incorrect. Ripping this CD is both illegal and wrong; if you bought this CD, you entered into a contract with Sony, and by ripping it, you are breaking your side of the contract, which is wrong in every sense.

No I didn't. I entered into a contract for sale of goods with the record store, the terms of which were that I handed over some cash and they handed over a CD. That contract was fulfilled to the satisfaction of both sides. I have no other contractual obligations of any kind.

--
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.

Comment removed by account_deleted · 2005-11-07 04:05 · Score: 1

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:NO you are WRONG by stephenslashdot · 2005-11-07 04:05 · Score: 5, Insightful

Now, I didn't buy that CD (or any others in the last five or six years) but if I had, I'd like to see where the terms and conditions of the contract that I SIGNED AND AGREED to are. If they are available for viewing BEFORE I make the purchase AND they explicitly indicate everything that Sony is allowed to do to my computer if I choose to put it in my computer, then you have a point. If not, then it is nothing more than a con, equivalent to me mailing you a letter that you open to see "the act of opening this letter means you agree to give me all your worldly assets, and none of your debts". If you feel Sony isn't WRONG, then you'd better fork over everything you own when you get that letter, because it's the same thing. Now, if I posted "the act of opening this letter means you agree to give me all your worldly assets, and none of your debts" and you open it, well, that's fair game because you had the option, and if you weren't a dumbass, you wouldn't open it. That's the difference. Sony is not providing OUTSIDE of the purchase the terms and conditions that you are claiming binds the purchasor, and Sony is NOT refunding your money if you disagree with what you find inside.

purchase != contract by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 04:07 · Score: 4, Informative

Ripping this CD is both illegal and wrong; if you bought this CD, you entered into a contract with Sony

Breaching a contract may be illegal, but buying a product is not the same thing as entering into a contract. Not even implicitly. It never has been.

The whole EULA thing has thrown some mud into the water, but the distinction remains...you don't enter into the contract until you click "accept"...simply buying the product does not automatically accept the EULA.

With CD's, there isn't even an EULA, hence no contract. Their content is protected under copyright law alone...which is quite a different thing from a contract (and includes clauses which may allow for personal backups).

Also, whether or not ripping it is wrong is not so finally decided. Morality tends to be a bit relative, and obviously some people have different opinions on the matter than you do.

Re:purchase != contract by Peaker · 2005-11-07 11:02 · Score: 1

until you click "accept"

And according to the law in many states, not even then!
Only written signatures or verbal consent form an agreement.
Re:purchase != contract by pAnkRat · 2005-11-07 19:59 · Score: 1

Many countries consider the act of buying being a contract between two parties, the buyer and the supplier.
INAL, but AFAIK it is a verbal contract here in germany.

--
we need an "-1 Plain wrong" moderation option!

Sure, people are talking shit about Sony now... by Brightest+Light · 2005-11-07 04:09 · Score: 1

but how many slashdotters are going to go out and buy the PS3?

Re:Sure, people are talking shit about Sony now... by The+GooMan · 2005-11-07 04:32 · Score: 1

I'm one that won't buy the PS3 because I quit buying Sony stuff years ago. They will not make me buy a memory stick no matter how hard they try. They will not make me install one of their rootkits no matter how hard they try. They will not make me buy movies on UMD no matter how hard they try.

If I see a device with any kind of tie-in with Sony I won't buy the product, end of story. They can choose to force me to do all kinds of things but I always win because I can choose not to take my wallet out. Pretty simple, IMHO.
Re:Sure, people are talking shit about Sony now... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 08:37 · Score: 0

but how many slashdotters are going to go out and buy the PS3?

None - it requires going out.

oh oh ... $sys$netsky.vbs ... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 04:11 · Score: 0

i can see all thesi *.vbs *.bat etc. files in the email
attachment getting saFed as $sys$*.vbs ...
cool "$sys$netsky.newsonysupported.vbs" ...?

Honest question by Karzz1 · 2005-11-07 04:14 · Score: 1

We all know that uninstalling this DRM crap is a (criminal) violation of the DMCA. What happens if rather than remove this from the existing operating system, you reinstall the entire OS? The first thing I do when a machine has been compromised is wipe it clean and reinstall it. Anything hiding running processes from me is in my eyes malware and has compromised my system. Am I a criminal for re-installing the OS now?

/me scratches head

--
Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.

Re:Honest question by HarvardAce · 2005-11-07 04:35 · Score: 1

We all know that uninstalling this DRM crap is a (criminal) violation of the DMCA.
Where did you get that idea? Even Sony will help you uninstall this DRM crap. The illegality arises when you uninstall the DRM crap but then still access the copywrited work. If you uninstall this particular DRM and no longer listen to the music, then you're in the clear.

--
Note to self: Stop putting jokes in my insightful comments so I can get something other than +1 Funny!
Re:Honest question by Karzz1 · 2005-11-07 04:50 · Score: 3, Interesting

The illegality arises when you uninstall the DRM crap but then still access the copywrited work. If you uninstall this particular DRM and no longer listen to the music, then you're in the clear.

So I forfeit the rights that I payed for when I bought the CD? Something doesnt add up here....

--
Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
Re:Honest question by nossid · 2005-11-07 05:20 · Score: 1

Taking legal advise from someone who use the word copywrite is a big no-no. That is a sure sign that they are just echoing something they have read without having a clue what they are talking about.
Re:Honest question by monkeydo · 2005-11-07 05:42 · Score: 1

What about someone who calls advice, advise? Or someone who writes "payed." I guess if we value posts based on the lack of spelling errors, there wouldn't be much worth reading here.

--
Si vis pacem, para bellum
The only thing more annoying than a Libertarian is an (un|mis)informed Libertarian
Re:Honest question by HarvardAce · 2005-11-07 06:17 · Score: 1

That is a sure sign that they are just echoing something they have read without having a clue what they are talking about.
Either that or he/she is just having a brain fart because it was 9:45AM on a Monday morning. I was merely making the point that uninstalling the DRM was not in violation of any copyrights (or writes) or DMCA, etc. It is only the act of uninstalling the DRM and then accessing the protected content where it may be possible you are breaking a law. The GGP's post was trying to make the argument that reinstalling your OS was in violation of copyright law, which is clearly not true.
That said, next time you comment on my spelling you might want to ensure that your grammar is correct.

--
Note to self: Stop putting jokes in my insightful comments so I can get something other than +1 Funny!
Re:Honest question by HarvardAce · 2005-11-07 06:20 · Score: 2

I guess if we value posts based on the lack of spelling errors, there wouldn't be much worth reading here.
Your write! We wood loose most of the poasts on Slashdot if we only looked at thoze with correct speeling.
Then again...is there much worth reading here even if we do include the posts with incorrect spelling?

--
Note to self: Stop putting jokes in my insightful comments so I can get something other than +1 Funny!
Re:Honest question by HarvardAce · 2005-11-07 06:29 · Score: 1

So I forfeit the rights that I payed for when I bought the CD?
Well the argument (please note that I don't necessarily agree with it) that Sony and its cohorts would give you is that you only gained the rights specified in the EULA, which more than likely include that you will not listen to/extract the music on a Windows PC without having their software installed. So if you refuse that EULA, Sony would argue that you don't have any rights to the content (on a Windows PC at least). You are still free to listen to the music on a Mac, *nix, or regular CD player without having to worry about installing the DRM software.

--
Note to self: Stop putting jokes in my insightful comments so I can get something other than +1 Funny!
Re:Honest question by schon · 2005-11-07 07:02 · Score: 1

So if you refuse that EULA, Sony would argue that you don't have any rights to the content (on a Windows PC at least)

Putting aside that you're just speculating, why?

If you refuse an EULA, how can it be binding on you?

If you refuse an EULA, and have the right use the disc on a Mac or Linux, why would you magically *not* have the rights on Windows?
Re:Honest question by HarvardAce · 2005-11-07 07:14 · Score: 1

If you refuse an EULA, how can it be binding on you?
And herein lies one of the problems with EULAs. If part of the EULA is that you can't access the content without accepting the EULA...what happens when you don't accept the EULA? If you haven't agreed to the EULA, then you haven't agreed to the condition that you can't access the data without agreeing to the EULA. Some have tried to argue that the part of only accessing the content if you agree to the EULA is part of the terms of sale, but I don't really buy that argument either.
I think we can all agree, however, that EULAs and DRMs and DMCAs and all the other acronyms you can think of are very fuzzy with regards to the law (despite claims by either side), and it's likely to get worse before it gets better.

--
Note to self: Stop putting jokes in my insightful comments so I can get something other than +1 Funny!
Re:Honest question by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 09:10 · Score: 0

'Payed', at least, is a recognized alternate spelling of paid. Consult your dictionary.
Re:Honest question by Moofie · 2005-11-07 09:23 · Score: 1

Yeah, because the EULA is posted there at Best Buy for you to read before you give them your money, right?

Oh, wait, it's not? Amazing.

--
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Re:Honest question by monkeydo · 2005-11-07 11:20 · Score: 1

No, it isn't.

--
Si vis pacem, para bellum
The only thing more annoying than a Libertarian is an (un|mis)informed Libertarian
Re:Honest question by fatcatman · 2005-11-07 12:26 · Score: 1

Technically, "he/she" isn't correct, either. Proper English dictates the male pronoun be used when referring to a person of unknown gender. In my example below, I will rework the rest of the annoying grammar mistakes and make the sentence more readable:

"That is a sure sign he simply echoed something he read without any clue what he was talking about."
Re:Honest question by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 16:19 · Score: 0

Actually it is.
Re:Honest question by senatorpjt · 2005-11-07 17:40 · Score: 1

Actually it is.

According to your link, "Payed" is only correct if he means to say that he covered his CD with a protective coating of asphalt. I believe this is perfectly legal.

Re:I wonder...NOT by ball-lightning · 2005-11-07 04:14 · Score: 3, Insightful

Microsoft has simply created an unbelievable amount of ill-will and lack of trust in me.

This article is about Sony and their creation of ill-will and lack of trust, not Microsoft. Yes, yes. Sony's rootkit is designed for windows, autoplay, etc and so on, but you really can't blame Microsoft in this case. It is just as possible to create a rootkit for any Macintosh or Linux machine, they just haven't because most of their customers use windows.

As for autoplay being a bad idea, it is and it isn't. I remember back when autoplay was first introduced (I can't beleive it was 10 years ago) the whole idea was that you would buy a product from the store, insert it into your computer, and bam, you're off. I remember thinking it was a pretty cool idea at the time, although only one program actually did it as cool as the Microsoft commercials, SimCity 2000. (You would insert the CD-ROM, and then play the game, w/out installation). While in retrospect it wasn't the best idea security-wise (at least without some sort of warning), I would be sad to see autoplay completely dissapear, since I'm lazy and enjoy my computer anticipating what I want it to do.

sign here... by Thud457 · 2005-11-07 04:15 · Score: 3, Funny

No, this is some horrible mistake! I think the man you really want is Harry T uttle

--

the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

More at 6:00 by Jozer99 · 2005-11-07 04:18 · Score: 1

Next story: Sony rootkit steals your soul and sells it to child pornographers/kitten murders. More at 6.

Re:The $sys$ prefixing thing was apparently wrong by BobPaul · 2005-11-07 04:20 · Score: 1

If by excellent you mean ass slow... KQEMU is a huge help, but it's no VMware... VMWare has support for 3D hardware acceleration, finally, too..
--
Don't fight Firefox! Let FireFox fight YOU!

The EULA didn't advertise this by MemeRot · 2005-11-07 04:21 · Score: 3, Informative

Why don't you people bother to read the article? It's a very interesting article and goes into a lot of detail both on what the technical side is, as well as frustration with Sony's poor support. From TFA:

There's more to the story than rootkits, however, and that's where I think Sony is missing the point. As I've pointed out in press interviews related to the post, the EULA does not disclose the software's use of cloaking or the fact that it comes with no uninstall facility. An end user is not only installing software when they agree to the EULA, they are losing control of part of the computer, which has both reliability and security implications. There's no way to ensure that you have up-to-date security patches for software you don't know you have and there's no way to remove, update or even identify hidden software that's crashing your computer.

The EULA also makes no reference to any "phone home" behavior, and Sony executives are claiming that the software never contacts Sony and that no information is communicated that could track user behavior. However, a user asserted in a comment on the previous post that they monitored the Sony CD Player network interactions and that it establishes a connection with Sony's site and sends the site an ID associated with the CD.

See? Not advertised in the EULA. So how are you supposed to know about it? It's one thing when it's hidden at the bottom of the EULA in small type - it's something else when it is ommitted from the EULA altogether. The comments in the article also detail problems several people had with the software - like a gamer with a 64-bit system who had his CD/DVD drive 'disappear' after installing this software - a piece of software with NO uninstall utility. All you get from Sony is a patch that removes the hiding of $sys$ files - they so far have refused to provide an uninstall utility for the software itself.

Re:The EULA didn't advertise this by OverlordQ · 2005-11-07 05:02 · Score: 0, Flamebait

Why dont you read the GP i was replying to you fucking moron, they were talking about not knowing the DRM was on the CD period.

--
Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
Re:The EULA didn't advertise this by MemeRot · 2005-11-07 05:23 · Score: 1

I did read it, you ******* *****, you clearly didn't understand that post. What he was saying, is the the EULA didn't advertise that there was a ROOTKIT that was installed. The eula only lists 'a small piece of proprietary software' - not something that alters windows internal workings. That is not even close to an adequate labelling. Neither does the eula list that the software connects to sony over the internet. Neither one of those things is listed in the eula, so you can't check either one of those out and decide if you want to accept it.

The problem in the GP's post is that he says "Sony didn't advertise in any way shape or form that THIS" - without providing a clear antecedant for what 'this' meant. I think I read it correctly and you read it incorrectly. But hey, why am I arguing with someone whose first response is to shout 'fucking moron'.

SONY LIED AND PEOPLE DIED! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 04:26 · Score: 0

Well, maybe not died. Maybe they just got pissed and shut down Sony's American market, but that wouldn't sound good on a sound bite.

My marketing-phrase is more emotionally charged.

Security Advisory - ANYWHERE?? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 04:27 · Score: 1, Interesting

So, where are all of the myriad security/anti-virus/anti-spyware companies with their Security Advisories on this subject (I checked McAfee, Symantec, and ISS; SANS only references other websites)? Since this could potentially be used for more malicious purposes why are the big security companies so quiet about it?

Hmmm, possibly because if they sent out advisoriies and/or their products detected the trojan, then their customer's would be (rightfully) upset that the product did not remove the threat. And removing the threat constitues a violation of DMCA.

Sad that "mainstream" security researchers are saying nothing on this subject. Some of these companies charge corporate IT-Sec groups handsomely for their "threat feeds". Since this is almost a week old, and no mention by these groups, it doesn't say much for the "threat feed" services.

Re:No by ajs318 · 2005-11-07 04:29 · Score: 1

Illegal and wrong are not the same thing. Smoking dope is illegal, but it is not wrong. Throwing away perfectly-edible food is not illegal, but it's wrong.

Anyway, your computer is running a pirate copy of Windows, so you're a fine one to talk. Come back when you have a clue.

--
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!

Why this doesn't matter in the big picture. . . by Fantastic+Lad · 2005-11-07 04:30 · Score: 3, Insightful

It is more important that people absorb media mind-control than it is for big companies to make lots of money.

Everybody in industrialized nations will always have access to more than enough medium for their brains to drown in. Money made directly from the sale of media, is in this case, a secondary concern.

The only things people might have a more difficult time gaining access to in our DRM future are positive, un-tainted messages. Though with choice and intent, people can find those easily enough as well.

So don't sweat the reverse psychology; we'll still all be able to listen to the next pop star with relatively little trouble. --In fact, as per usual, it will probably take a degree of concentrated effort to avoid whatever dark-side, soul-draining message of slavery is being broadcast.

"Hit me Baby, one more time."

Ugh. The stuff is like nuclear fall-out. Destructive and near impossible to avoid.

-FL

Re:The $sys$ prefixing thing was apparently wrong by Richard_J_N · 2005-11-07 04:34 · Score: 1

Hmm. it is slow, but not very slow. Then again, I'm using a 3GHz P4 with 2GB RAM, and so I'm not altogether unhappy with the performance. The VM (without KQEMU) feels like it's about 400 Mhz, with 256 MB RAM, so although I wouldn't call it speedy, it is, however, quite usable. Win98 boots in 20 seconds, and takes another 15 to start firefox.
KQEMU is nice - I just haven't bothered to recompile it yet.

Re:I wonder...NOT by BoRegardless · 2005-11-07 04:35 · Score: 3, Insightful

I do have to agree with your comments. I agree that other OS's can have software added in bad ways. What I would prefer to see is that the OS's that I run, never allow any install to occurr without me personally OKing the operation. Maybe that would be obtrusive, but that is what I would wish.

But what I do object to in MS Windows is the concept that Microsoft has designed their "system" with the input from their 'strategic partners' like Sony, to allow these sorts of things which have happened, which is basically designing an OS to be primarily setup behind the scenes away from the user, such that the OS is at the beck and call of Microsoft and its partners. Microsoft is thus responsible for this mess, at the 'root' of the problem. They thus deserve my dissing and scorn. They have caused a LOT of wasted hours out of my life that should never have ocurred.

This attitude has caused an incredible amount of harm on so many levels that I am surprised some enterprising attorney has not filed a suit against Microsoft and tried to get class action status to represent all individual Windows users.

the spice MUST flow! by Thud457 · 2005-11-07 04:40 · Score: 3, Funny

Don't they need rye bread to breed the ergot that fuels the management / marketing team?

--

the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

Re:the spice MUST flow! by pegr · 2005-11-07 05:09 · Score: 1

Don't they need rye bread to breed the ergot that fuels the management / marketing team?

I laughed at this and wondered why it wasn't modded up... Then I remembered the youth of typical /.'ers...

Clue: Ergot mold (from rye bread) is the precursor component to LSD. Here's a wikipedia article on ergotism, a malady caused by eating moldy rye bread... ("Dancing on hot tiles!")
Re:the spice MUST flow! by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-08 03:28 · Score: 0

Hey, somebody brought muffins to the strategy meeting!

Announcing: The Hider by davidwr · 2005-11-07 04:42 · Score: 2, Insightful

1 April 2006

PRESS RELEASE: Announcing The Hider®

The Hider® is a run-time library that your program calls during initialization. It randomizes strings of your choosing, including window names, application names as they appear in the Task Manager, and other strings. It also comes with The Launcher® which will copy your program to a random file name, encode it and add a decoding module, and run it from there.

This program enables your program to hide from "detectors" such as the infamous Sony 2005 Rootkit.

The developers license prohibits the use of this The Hider® and related programs in DRM applications, viruses, and other malicious software. Violators will be prosecuted under the DMCA and other laws.

--
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.

Re:The $sys$ prefixing thing was apparently wrong by muzzy · 2005-11-07 04:48 · Score: 2, Informative

Heh, it's OK. I should've nuked the first comment the very moment I realized it was wrong, not after getting submitted to slashdot. I didn't realize I could do that since I only created blogger.com account to post to Mark's blog and was totally unaware of any features it had :o

Ohwell, all publicity is good publicity, even if it makes me look like a jerk for a day :)

--
-- Matti Nikki

Free Rootkit Installation Package by JohnnyOpcode · 2005-11-07 04:48 · Score: 1

So, for the price of a certain Sony Music CD, I get a fully functional rootkit installation (on the cheap!) that I can exploit for any nefarious purpose I choose!

I can see it now..

Hey Bob (you $#@%), can I use your computer to listen to my CD while IT fixes mine over lunch! I promise not to mess-up your icon arrangement (oooooooooh).

I call this sweet^10!!!

Re:I wonder...NOT by iamacat · 2005-11-07 05:00 · Score: 1

Tell me more about your rootkit for Mac. So, say you duped the user into manually running a program on your CD rather than just importing it directly from iTunes. How are you going to install device drivers or hide your process from detection with access only to user's home directory? If you do find and exploit a new privilege-escalation hole, you are going to jail because you obviously hacked user's computer rather than just using a standard mechanism.

Not Offtopic by rhetoric · 2005-11-07 05:01 · Score: 0, Offtopic

He is responding to the parent. This is certainly flamebait, but NOT OFFTOPIC. RTFModeratorGuidlines.

--

"where words meet intent, lies rhetoric's lament"

What is Amazon's liability? by jenkin+sear · 2005-11-07 05:09 · Score: 1

At what point does Amazon start to pick up liability for selling a known defective product without adequate disclosure? If I buy the CD- and Amazon has been warned that the product is defective and likely to damage my computer- are they also a target of the inevitable class-action lawsuits that will follow?

In other words, a geek-only boycott is unlikely to have any affect on Sony- there are way too many Brittney Spears fans out there to sell to. If Sony's distributors are warned off of selling defective, damaging product- and there is legal evidence that they knew about the problem and sold it anyway- they will also face monetary damages. This seems to be the quickest way to get these trojans off the market.

--
What a strange bird is the pelican, his beak can hold more than his belly can.

Re:What is Amazon's liability? by TropicalCoder · 2005-11-07 08:05 · Score: 1

Shouldn't somebody write a well written letter to Amazon and warn them about the Sony Rootkit? Certianly a responsible company like Amazon would stop selling the Sony CDs in an instant if they only knew!
Re:What is Amazon's liability? by ddmcd · 2005-11-08 02:23 · Score: 0

Have you ever tried to write to Amazon?

I did when I started researching which online music vendors were telling their customers which CD's they sold contained DRM that might make the products unusable. Most online vendors -- and initally Amazon --- responded that they were not supplied this information by their suppliers.

Overstock was the only company I surveyed that stated they would advertise DRM presence on their online catalogs. Interestingly, BMG's BMG Music Service also said they were unable to provide such information.

Another interesting finding was that, even as Amazon's customer rep was emailing me to say they didn't have DRM info, Amazon actually WAS providing copy protetection information on individual titles.

I finally gave up on following up on the survey after I decided to stop buying CD's altogethe. It's a dead format and is being hastened to the grave by industry efforts such as Sony's DRM rootkit.

Results of my survey are referenced here:
http://ddmcd.squarespace.com/managing-technology/a mazon-does-publish-copy-protection-information-aft er-all.html

--
web site: http://www.ddmcd.com

Sony BMG can have money from me for their products by Crouty · 2005-11-07 05:11 · Score: 1

...from my cold dead hands.

No, I mean it. I'm through with them. Not for a month or a year. Forever!

--
On se Internetz nobody noes your German.

Update by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 05:16 · Score: 0

Kinda offtopic (I blame /. for not having any metaforum), but those Updates of the story are very welcome and brings back fond memories of editors not just copy-pasting the stories without checking more than that the link works.

GJ hemos

How do we get RID of this thing? by GecKo213 · 2005-11-07 05:18 · Score: 1

Sony offered to unmask it so that we can see it's there, but how do we remove it? How do we even know it's there? I want this shit out of my life! Sony you Bastards!

--
Generation Trance: What generation are you?

To RK, or Not to RK, That is the Question by Nom+du+Keyboard · 2005-11-07 05:42 · Score: 1

The important thing when you RTFM is that Sony is admitting that they used RootKit DRM. Now they offer non-RK DRM to replace it. Boy I want to see them go down hard over this one. I want significant jail time for the entire chain of command in Sony that authorized this in any form.

Although you have to admit, a RootKit plus Tunes for only $14.99 is quite a bargain. Especially one as well documented as this one is turning out to be. How long before the OSS version is released?

Has DRM ever contributed to the sale of another CD?

--
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."

We hates Sony! Hates it! Oh, wait... by Orrin+Bloquy · 2005-11-07 05:43 · Score: 0

We refuse to buy anything Sony! Anything! Except those Blu-Ray DVD sets of Sailor Moon and those MacIntels with Blu-Ray RW drives! /it's a joke, waste your mod points elsewhere

--
"Made up/misattributed quote that makes me look smart. I am on /. and I must look smart."

OT: $50 max w/o signature by Kadin2048 · 2005-11-07 05:48 · Score: 1

I'm pretty sure that there is a $50 limit on credit card purchases made without a signature, that you make just by swiping the card through a reader.

A lot of gas stations I've been to have signs that say you need to reset the pump and reswipe every fifty dollars (which can mean several times, if you're filling the tank on a large truck or RV), or alternately can come inside and pay there and do it in one shot. I think the difference is that by going inside, you leave your card and have to sign the slip to pay, while outside you just swipe.

That's the best theory I had for it anyway: the CC companies would prefer that people not be able to spend hundreds of dollars without any sort of authentication (even though the signature checking is pretty minimal these days anyway). Maybe they think it cuts down on fraud.

--
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."

Re:OT: $50 max w/o signature by Esion+Modnar · 2005-11-07 07:02 · Score: 1

Maybe the gas stations have a valid reason for this. I'm just saying don't use the "for your convenience" bullshit line. Instead say something like, "There is a $50 limit on at-pump purchases. Sorry for the inconvenience."
The limit is the inconvenience. Whether I pay multiple times at the pump, or walk in to pay, it is STILL an inconvenience. Don't go irritating me even further with "For your convenience..."
That hated 3-word phrase is just the bull-headed attempt by companies to change reality by stating it enough their way.

--

They say the first thing to go is your penis. Well, it's either that or your brain. I forget which...

LAWYER ADVERTISEMENT by Ethan+Preston · 2005-11-07 05:52 · Score: 0, Redundant

I am an attorney in Chicago, Illinois. Some affiliated law firms and I are investigating a possible consumer class action against Sony Music Entertainment Corp. ("Sony") for selling "CD"-like media encoded with the XCP2 copy protection scheme, without properly disclosing XCP2 copy protection program's nature or effects on its users' computers.

If you or anyone you know has purchased a compact disc with the XCP2 copy protection program (apparently most of Sony's releases since August 2005) and played or attempted to pay the compact disc on a Windows personal computer, you may have a claim against Sony and other parties. If you would like representation in this matter, please contact me at:

Ethan Preston
150 South Wacker
Suite 2600
Chicago, IL 60606
(312) 346-8700 ex. 108

No reason why not... by Kadin2048 · 2005-11-07 05:54 · Score: 1

I think you could, if the ISO supported multiple tracks / sessions. I mostly use Toast's disc image format, not ISOs, because I only ever keep images for my own use and generally just temporary storage, and it handles these things just fine.

This isn't one of those CDs with anything really exotic going on where they've messed with the Red Book spec (at least that I have heard of), basically it's just an audio CD with a data track, and on that data track is the rootkit installer, set up so that it autoruns when the disc is inserted (unless of course you have autorun disabled, as you should). So there's no immediate reason why I can see why you couldn't copy it using a regular imaging program -- unless the rootkit has already installed itself on your system and prevents such programs from accessing the drive, that is.

--
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."

gov by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 05:57 · Score: 0

i'm just waiting for congress to act when someone tries to listen to some music at work and sony invades us government computers with their software, which would be a federal crime...and result in sony being fined and potentially be the subject of hearings.

allofmp3.com already has 'get right with man' cd by TheGratefulNet · 2005-11-07 05:57 · Score: 1

its shown on their catalog.

and I don't think there's jack shite that any US company can do to the russians.

I auditioned (free 8k mono download) the cd in question and the music DOES suck pretty badly. but it was interesting to note that they did have it, already, in their catalog.

until the music biz plays fair, I refuse to buy standard RIAA/MPAA content. I just won't.

--

--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."

iTunes Pro by CODiNE · 2005-11-07 06:01 · Score: 4, Interesting

The installer list has iTunes Pro on it, that comes as a bit of a surprise to me. iTunes Pro is the app used by Apple to add music to the iTMS. Sony wants to prevent consumers from running this app or to prevent Apple from adding those CD's to the iTMS? What would the point of this be?

Weird.

--
Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz

Re:iTunes Pro by Technician · 2005-11-07 06:58 · Score: 1

The installer list has iTunes Pro on it, that comes as a bit of a surprise to me. iTunes Pro is the app used by Apple to add music to the iTMS. Sony wants to prevent consumers from running this app or to prevent Apple from adding those CD's to the iTMS? What would the point of this be?

Itunes permits ripping and burning unprotected CD's that can later be ripped. They are fixing the hole by preventing burning ripped tracks to an unprotected CD. If you can't rip it, you can't burn it and rip it unprotected.

--
The truth shall set you free!
Re:iTunes Pro by Vampyre_Macavity · 2005-11-07 07:27 · Score: 1

And what about ripping it with iTunes Pro and burning it with Nero or something like that? Does it block them too?

--
Patrolling ftw

Class Action Investigation Against Sony by Ethan+Preston · 2005-11-07 06:02 · Score: 2, Interesting

I am an attorney in Chicago, Illinois. Some affiliated law firms and I are investigating a possible consumer class action against Sony Music Entertainment Corp. ("Sony") for selling "CD"-like media encoded with the XCP2 copy protection scheme, without properly disclosing XCP2 copy protection program's nature or effects on its users' computers.

If you or anyone you know has purchased a compact disc with the XCP2 copy protection program (apparently most of Sony's releases since August 2005) and played or attempted to pay the compact disc on a Windows personal computer, you may have a claim against Sony and other parties. If you would like representation in this matter, please contact me at:

Ethan Preston
150 South Wacker
Suite 2600
Chicago, IL 60606
(312) 346-8700 ex. 108

LAWYER ADVERTISEMENT

Re:Class Action Investigation Against Sony by Kadin2048 · 2005-11-07 06:14 · Score: 1

Although I'm all about suing Sony, you should probably refrain from double-posting; you're going to get downmoderated hard, and I'd hate for both your posts to end up so far below the 'noise floor' that people don't see it.

--
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
Re:Class Action Investigation Against Sony by Ethan+Preston · 2005-11-07 06:54 · Score: 1

You're abosolutely correct and I appreciate the advise; I posted the second time after realized that the first post's subject was unlikely to draw many viewers. Is there any way to delete the first post?
Re:Class Action Investigation Against Sony by Ethan+Preston · 2005-11-07 07:05 · Score: 1

Or, rather, "absolutely" and "advice."
Re:Class Action Investigation Against Sony by Kadin2048 · 2005-11-07 10:51 · Score: 1

That would be useful, wouldn't it? No, once you post it's added to the static page, and sticks around forever, or until CmdrTaco needs more space for porn, whichever comes first. (Say it together now: "It's a feature, not a limitation...")

And I wouldn't worry about the spelling, nobody else seems to.

--
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."

Dear Sony: by The+Master+Control+P · 2005-11-07 06:05 · Score: 1

You have gauranteed that I will never purchase any hardware, software, or music made by your or your affiliates again. You have also gauranteed that I will do my best to make all my friends and family members do likewise. I will also put up a banner on my website telling everyone who goes there to never buy from you again.

Congratulations you facist pricks!

Irony by Kadin2048 · 2005-11-07 06:07 · Score: 3, Insightful

My favorite part, for irony:

Note: This rootkit was designed to hide a legitimate application, but it can be used to hide other objects, including malicious software.

What sort of "legitimate application" needs to be hidden using a rootkit? What sort of definition of legitimate are they using, anyway?

Second favorite part:

WARNING: Removing this security risk manually may damage the compromised computer's operating system and may violate the manufacturer's end-user license agreement.

--
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."

Re:Irony by stinerman · 2005-11-07 11:20 · Score: 1

What sort of "legitimate application" needs to be hidden using a rootkit?

The kind distributed by a company who will sue Symantec into the ground for libel and defamation of character if Symantec goes on record as saying said company is distributing spyware, malware, rootkits, etc.

prevention by jafac · 2005-11-07 06:12 · Score: 3, Insightful

In the past, while working on a friend's infected laptop, cleaning out malware, I took down the names of some of the installed junk, and in frustration, I reinstalled the OS, and created 0-byte files with the same names as the spyware files, then I set them to read-only, and permissions only to the SYSTEM and a dummy admin user account. For the past year or so, she hasn't had nearly as many episodes of needing me to clear off her system. Part of that may be because of the copy of Spybot Search and Destroy, Norton, and the fact that she now uses Firefox.

But creating an 0-byte Aries.sys stub, making it read-only, may prevent the installation of the real-deal.

--

These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.

Re:The $sys$ prefixing thing was apparently wrong by funkapimpalicious · 2005-11-07 06:17 · Score: 2, Interesting

Hey, if the lists are used to stop us from ripping by detecting the name of the executable, why dont we jsut use an open source solution, and change the name prior to compilation? That way, anyone can make their ripper be called anything so it wont be detected. Is it that simple, or am I misunderstanding the situation?

Re:I wonder...NOT by AvitarX · 2005-11-07 06:19 · Score: 1

The autoplay menu is the only way I can get Civilization IV to run, otherwise it fails teh copyright test.

I have autorun disabled, so I need to browse to it, but if it was gone I would be sad.

--
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg

What I did at work today... by melgish · 2005-11-07 06:22 · Score: 1

I emailed both my senators:

Dear Senator,

I'm writing you to express my concerns about the recent revelation regarding 'root kit' software that is being secretly installed on users' computers when they agree to a misleading End User License Agreement from Sony / BMG.

According to recent research, said software uses the same techniques used by hackers to camouflage viruses, and other forms of mal-ware. Not only that, this software is so poorly written as to open the host system up to other, potentially more damaging attacks.

I work as both a software developer and network administrator for a Central Florida based company which creates applications used by the banking industry. Network security, and software security is an important part of my day to day thinking.

I want you to understand that the security vulnerabilities that Sony / BMG have inadvertently created are the kind that any competent hacker can fly a virtual 747 into.

I hope that you will urge the senate to look into this matter, but more importantly I hope that you will see the need for stronger and clearer legislation to protect users from companies that would use such underhanded techniques.

I urge you to read Mark Russinovich's web-log entries regarding this software, and take heed his expert opinion on this matter.
Here are links to the relevant entries.

http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2005/10/sony-ro otkits-and-digital-rights.html

http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2005/11/more-on -sony-dangerous-decloaking.html

http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2005/11/sonys-r ootkit-first-4-internet.html

I thank you very much for your time and cooperation.

I urge you all to do the same, ...but leave out the part about working in Central Florida ;-)

Re:What I did at work today... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-08 00:01 · Score: 0

Nice, ridiculous 9/11 analogies are what these people understand.

Re:I wonder...NOT by TheRaven64 · 2005-11-07 06:31 · Score: 2, Informative

It is possible to create a kernel module that intercepts system calls on OS X. Any admin user can install a kernel module - and most users are accustomed to entering their password when installing.

Another approach would be to install hooks into the API functions for playing a CD and browsing the filesystem above the kernel level. This would be easier to detect (simply invoke the system calls directly, rather than via a userspace API), but probably as effective.

You could probably persuade users to run the software by putting an HFS+ session on the disk first so iTunes wouldn't see it as an audio CD, and putting the application on this session with the same icon as a Finder uses for CDDA tracks - or simply use the auto-install feature (which would prompt the user for confirmation, but how many people would click no?)

--
I am TheRaven on Soylent News

Re:The $sys$ prefixing thing was apparently wrong by The+Warlock · 2005-11-07 06:33 · Score: 2, Insightful

Well, fuck, if you're using open source software anyway, rip the damn thing under Linux, and avoid the rootkit altogether.

--
I've upped my standards, so up yours.

Re:I wonder...NOT by Woody77 · 2005-11-07 06:37 · Score: 1

I do have to agree with your comments. I agree that other OS's can have software added in bad ways. What I would prefer to see is that the OS's that I run, never allow any install to occurr without me personally OKing the operation. Maybe that would be obtrusive, but that is what I would wish.

My mac does this... Anything requiring admin privs asks for the admin password.

Re:NO you are WRONG by KitesWorld · 2005-11-07 06:45 · Score: 2, Insightful

'Fair Use'. I have a legal right under international copyright law to format-shift any media in my possession. I also have a right that allows me to make backups - be it recording onto cassette, ripping to my ipod, making a backup/mix CD, whatever - its perfectly legal, and ICL recognises that. It's wrong for me to *Distribute* any of those copies I make, but not to make them. That's the distinction. Also, there is no contract. A contract has to be presented BEFORE the item it is attached to is given/sold/leased/whatever. To attach terms to a sale after the sale is made is simply deceit - I don't know about the U.S, but here in the UK it is actually ILLEGAL for a company to attach terms in that manner. Hence, Sony's EULA is in no way binding. The only protection the CD has is Copyright law. As long as the purchaser remains within the laws fair use constraints (I.e, not re-publishing it), there is nothing unethical, or illegal taking place. Unless you live in the USA with its shitty, overly-broad DMCA.

I h8 slashdot by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 06:47 · Score: 0

Why the fuck is this under GAMES, idiots...

AutoPlay at Microsoft... by John+Miles · 2005-11-07 07:00 · Score: 1

The idea behind AutoPlay, which originated concurrently with the first DirectX SDK, was to make the PC work more like a game console. When you wanted to install a new game, all you'd have to do would be to put the CD in the drive. At the time, gaming was a critically-important thing for the Windows 95 group to get right, because it was where most of the compatibility and performance issues were showing up. There was a genuine desire to make Windows 95 games as user-friendly as possible, and that's all anybody was actually trying to do.

It was a reasonable, if not exactly earth-shattering, idea at the time. Nobody at Microsoft (I was working in that group as a contractor) foresaw that the feature would be misused like it's being misused now. It simply wasn't a reasonable thing to anticipate. ("Gee, Alex, you think maybe in ten years the world's largest media companies will corrupt the Red Book CD Audio specification to use our new feature as a means of distributing rootkit trojans that will be illegal to remove?")

As a developer, if you had to think that far ahead, and speculate that wildly about how your code could be misused, you'd never have the guts to implement anything. (Besides, 'security' and 'physical access to the machine' are contradictions in terms. AutoPlay is not a security risk.)

--
Dahlmann tightly grips the knife, which he may have no idea how to use, and steps out into the plain.

Re:AutoPlay at Microsoft... by sqlrob · 2005-11-07 07:47 · Score: 1

So you're saying, before this time, there were no viruses that used the boot sector of the floppy that infected the hardrive if the floppy was booted?

It's an analagous situation.
Re:AutoPlay at Microsoft... by John+Miles · 2005-11-07 10:48 · Score: 1

I'm saying that once you've convinced the user to stick a potentially-bootable disc (whether floppy or CD) in the machine's drive, the "security" game is already over.

--
Dahlmann tightly grips the knife, which he may have no idea how to use, and steps out into the plain.
Re:AutoPlay at Microsoft... by sqlrob · 2005-11-07 11:19 · Score: 1

Correct, and at the time Autoplay came out, CD drives weren't bootable.

Autoplay made them "bootable", without even requiring the computer be turned off. How could this not be seen as a risk?
Re:AutoPlay at Microsoft... by John+Miles · 2005-11-07 12:34 · Score: 1

You have to remember, this was 1995, and it wasn't that common for people to swap files on CD-Rs back then.

CD burners cost upwards of $1000, and blanks were about $14 each. (My backside is still aching from having bought 100 of them around 1996-1997, just before the price fell to around $5 seemingly overnight).

The only things distributed on CD were commercial software and Red Book music discs, which, back in the old days (and you kids can just get the fuck off my lawn, kthxbye) were simply not something you had to worry about. Remember, you are asking people to go back in time and be paranoid about a threat that wouldn't emerge for ten years!

Even today, Autoplay wouldn't be seen as a particularly-frightening security risk compared to network-based attacks. If you are sitting at a machine you own, then it is not safe from your own actions.

--
Dahlmann tightly grips the knife, which he may have no idea how to use, and steps out into the plain.
Re:AutoPlay at Microsoft... by rtb61 · 2005-11-07 16:07 · Score: 1

No excuse, you called it autoplay not autoinstall. Autoplay OK autoinstall sucks, and yes it was microsoft's choice as to what could happen when autoplay was first introduced and it did not have to end up a, not my problem, show me the money, security issue.
It is now 2005, 10 years and microsoft still have not bothered to try and fix it? Oh right, there's no profit in it. Instead it creates the option of hidden device drivers, hidden registry keys, hidden files and hidden directories (which of course you can unhide, on no wait, you can't unhide them all) in it's newer versions, now there were a great series of steps forward to enable a more secure experience for the end user.
Sorry, of course they weren't created for the end user were they, they were created for and markerted to the pigopolists so microsoft could sell it's DRM licences and basically, screw the end user wee willie wonts to sell more shares (they were demostrating how they could control the end users use of their own computer).
Well, as it turned out, the pigopolists figured out they didn't have to pay microsoft one red cent and they could still futz with the end user and their computer, thanks to the greed and stupidity of microsoft (but then again microsoft could patent the installation of rootkits on their operating systems and demand a licence fee).

--
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
Re:AutoPlay at Microsoft... by John+Miles · 2005-11-07 17:10 · Score: 1

You can (and clearly do) believe anything you want, but at the end of the day, the idea was just to make the PC act more like a game console. :-P

Enjoy your life of unending persecution.

--
Dahlmann tightly grips the knife, which he may have no idea how to use, and steps out into the plain.
Re:AutoPlay at Microsoft... by rtb61 · 2005-11-07 17:53 · Score: 1

Ten years ago some errors were excused but all that led to was an endless series of marketing hype/lies and products that seemed to be getting worse rather than better. Oddly enough I don't feel the least bit persecuted, although I have no qualms about spending quite some time (I strongly doubt a lifetime will be required just a couple more years should be enough ;-)) persecuting a group who believe that morals are not required in transactions between corporations and individuals, M$=B$ (and believe it or not, I am actually having fun doing it for free ;-)).

--
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen

Appropriate Titles by fdiskne1 · 2005-11-07 07:01 · Score: 1

Looking through the CD titles this comes with, some of them are appropriately named:

Nothing Is Sound - Not once you try to remove the software

Life In Slow Motion - Don't you just love spyware?

Unwritten - and unripped

Suspicious Activity - sums it up nicely

Unfabulous And More - quite unfabulous

Healthy In Paranoid Times - Funniest of the bunch

The Invisible Invasion - nice description of the spyware

Phantoms - hidden software

Change It All - Your CD-ROM drive, your Windows install

Broken Valley - If you call your Windows PC "Valley" (okay, it's a stretch)

and the most appropriate title of the bunch:

Get Right with the Man

--
But why is the rum gone?

Sony's new slogan by ClickOnThis · 2005-11-07 07:03 · Score: 1

All your pr0n are belong to us.

--
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.

Good deal for $$..... by scrout · 2005-11-07 07:04 · Score: 1

This 'rootkit' sw is actually a pretty useful program. Worth the price of a CD itself.

Re:The $sys$ prefixing thing was apparently wrong by SiliconEntity · 2005-11-07 07:15 · Score: 3, Insightful

Just my luck, when I make it to slashdot it's something I've analyzed wrong. I tested to rename my ripping software to begin with $sys$ and it ripped it fine, but apparently something else was the deciding factor. I can't reproduce that effect!

Too late. This is the kind of falsehood which will become true merely by repetition. It is too good a story not to tell. You will see it repeated over and over on site after site. Occasionally people will try to follow up with corrections but they will never get the attention that the original false report got.

"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes." - Mark Twain

Why is this in GAMES? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 07:19 · Score: 0

Why is this in the Games section?

That won't work by electrosoccertux · 2005-11-07 07:39 · Score: 1

Because the majority of people are stupid. The masses will still buy this. So for Sony, they'll still see profit, which means they won't see a problem.

We have to protect the stupid and do something about this. Passive Aggression a la boycotting products will never be enough, we have to go on the offense and bring numerous lawsuits. Maybe the insurance company will drop Sony/raise prices? If we do this enough, Sony will have to do something. If we simply don't buy the products, Sony doesn't have to do _anything_ as long as they are making a profit. The main reason boycotting won't work is because Sony knows what we're thinking. They know we'll come back and buy their products if they make them decent again. So really this is a win/tie situation for them, with no loss. The only way we can make them lose is if we force them to change.

It's not a "file system" by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 07:39 · Score: 1, Informative

It is rip-able (see cdrdao), but it isn't a file system. It's a standard for laying out audio tracks on a CDIt encapsulates a single session, with up to 99 audio tracks, no data tracks and a table of contents at the end. No CD-TEXT or weird stuff in the subchannels, no track start/stop times that overlap, and no hidden data in the lead-in.

In any case, the CDs are not Red Book. They are Yellow Book (data track + audio tracks).

And for the record:
Red = Audio Only
Yellow = Data + Audio tracks (data tracks are specifically covered by ISO 9660)
Orange = Yellow book with CD-R and CD-RW provisions (this is the format of most burned CDs)
Blue = CD-G/Enhanced CD. Multisession with audio in one session and data in the second session. Appears as strict Red Book to audio-only players, and as strict Yellow Book to computers that can't understand multiple sessions.
Green/White book = CD-i and video CD (XA mode 2 with MPEG-1 encoded in raw sectors on the CD). Precursor to DVD-Video.
Beige = Kodak Photo CD (!)

physical disablement? by Anomalyst · 2005-11-07 07:42 · Score: 1

As a favor to any future posessors of a trojaned disc.

1. Locate physical position of code on CD, it is assumed to be in the same place on every "protected" CD.
2. Create a jig with a nail or some other method of defacing the disc surface and preventing the program from ever being copied from the CD.
3. ???
4. profit!

--
There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.

Tell Sony here .. by AceyMan · 2005-11-07 07:54 · Score: 2, Informative

Web-form for comments to Sony Music is here ->

http://www.sonymusic.com/about/feedback.cgi

Also the snail mail address is given as well:

Sony Music Online Services
550 Madison Ave, 24th Fl
New York, NY 10022-3211

Lets put the /. effect to good use!

--
-- Experience is a wonderful thing. It enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again.

The good news is.. by fonetik · 2005-11-07 08:02 · Score: 1

...now that Sony has solved the piracy problem, the cost of CDs can be reduced! Right?

What about Windows Vista? by TuomasK · 2005-11-07 08:04 · Score: 1

F-Secure's Mikko Hypönen has haid that the Sony DRM, when run on Windows Vista "breaks the operating system spectacularly". Imagine 5 years from now, someone pops an Sony disc and puts it in his/hers/dads computer and wham, the Vista operating system crashes. Great, who to blame? It doesn't really matter if Sony makes "better" version for the newer cd's, are they going to upgrade all the existings cd's also? These cds are going to be around for a long time and it seems thay they are designed only for Windows XP!!

--
The truth or interpretation..

Digged? by goofyspouse · 2005-11-07 08:04 · Score: 1

Holy Crazy Conjugations, Batman!

Re:Digged? by HermanAB · 2005-11-07 08:56 · Score: 1

That happens when the author is paid per letter; 'has digged' is three hundred percent better for the bottom line, than 'dug'...

--
Oh well, what the hell...

What About the Artists? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 08:07 · Score: 0

I'm sure these artists are all under contracts signed in blood, something like "Sony is Thy god to whom I will only speak highly" but artists like Van Zant, etc are going to lose TONS over royalties here! Just look at Amazon's product page (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00 092ZM02/qid=1131393629/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-042 6397-0537404?v=glance&s=music&n=507846/), comment after comment about the rootkit. If I was an artist, I would be PISSED!

fuck sony by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 08:08 · Score: 0

lets pirate all their shit from now on.

It's a COMPLAINT, not an Italian lawsuit. by Tsu+Dho+Nimh · 2005-11-07 08:17 · Score: 1

The "Italian lawyer has filed suit against Sony on behalf of the Italian equivalent of the EFF" is not quite true. He made a formal complaint - he "denounced them", in legal lingo - but it's not a lawsuit.

That could come later

hey Van Zant, hellooooo? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 08:22 · Score: 0

Any word from the band van Zant? I am really interested in their reaction. As I see it, because most consumers are ignorant or do not really care about the whole DRM business, only the artists have the power to change the course of record companies. What if Van Zant came out on MTV and said that they're really pissed about Sony adding this crap to their CD, apologise to the fans and announce a switch over to a different record company?

How about this message getting picked up and someone like Eminem taking a stand against DRM during the MTV music awards?

So What Happens When.... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 08:24 · Score: 0

Someone checks out a cd from the library and decides to listen to it on their home pc, you are only borrowing the cd but it autoruns... If you have multiple pc's with different IP's and MAC addresses but you have listened to it on each of them... Aren't these two scenarios giving Sony a false positive on cd duplication?

Re:NO you are WRONG by DA-MAN · 2005-11-07 08:36 · Score: 2, Insightful

'Fair Use'. I have a legal right under international copyright law to format-shift any media in my possession.

First of all, IANAL. Now that this has been stated, although I disagree with the music industry, I am tired of crap like this being posted. Fair use is not a legal right, it's a set condition under which you can't be prosecuted. The Fair Use doctrine states that although illegal to make copies unless you are the copyright holder, you can get away with it if you qualify under X, Y, or Z.

In addition, the 'Fair Use' doctrine is U.S. Copyright Law. It is not international copyright law. This is why iTunes is technically illegal in Australia, because it can copy cd's. Although most countries have a similar exception to the copyright law, Fair Use is by no means International Law.

Other than that I must say, I hate how the entertainment industry is screwing with my rights. I think we all need to educate ourselves better with what is going on, so that we may better fight this bullshit. It's blatantly obvious that our Government does not have the best interests of it's citizens in mind while passing these laws. Hell we are still stuck in the middle ages of art because nothing ever goes back into the public domain anymore.

--
Can I get an eye poke?
Dog House Forum

Re:The $sys$ prefixing thing was apparently wrong by DA-MAN · 2005-11-07 08:39 · Score: 1

Well, fuck, if you're using open source software anyway, rip the damn thing under Linux, and avoid the rootkit altogether.

You do know that rootkits started on UNIX and have plagued Linux for some time now. Luckily Sony isn't targetting us. However these can happen on Linux too, although they are mitigated by the fact that most users do not run as root.

--
Can I get an eye poke?
Dog House Forum

Re:The $sys$ prefixing thing was apparently wrong by CyberVenom · 2005-11-07 08:44 · Score: 1

Looks like the installer list contains the names of most media players, possibly for Sony to survey the market and report back to HQ what media players people have installed. Windows Media Player and Winamp make that list, and I seriously doubt Sony would prevent WMP from playing their CDs entirely - that would just be stupid. It could also be something to help the installer keep MIME type associations straight - maybe so it can return posession of the MIME types to the proper app when it isn't controlling them?
The DRM server list looks more critical and does not include simple players. It seems to be a list of rippers. I might guess that some action like cutting off CD access entirely would occur when a process that matches the DRM list is detected running. Of course, I haven't let Sony root my box yet, so this is all just guesswork on my part. If renaming your ripper EXE doesn't hide it from Sony's DRM server, then perhaps you could try renaming the main window (using reshack or a hex editor or similar on the EXE) since that seems to be the alternative name stored in the DRM list. Also it may check the "original filename" inside the EXE (the one shown on Windows next to the file version number and stuff when you view "properties"), so again you might want to use reshack or a hex editor to change that as well.
Or just edit the magic lists themselves (unless Sony has some sort of checksum on them)

Re:The $sys$ prefixing thing was apparently wrong by macdaddy · 2005-11-07 08:48 · Score: 1

You just can't beat VMWare for speed and features. The memory management alone is worth it IMHO. I love VMWare.

MOD PARENT INFORMATIVE by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 09:01 · Score: 0

One file system spanning, multiple tracks doesn't seem like a good idea, but that is really what is going on.

Re:NO you are WRONG by serber · 2005-11-07 09:11 · Score: 1

In addition, the 'Fair Use' doctrine is U.S. Copyright Law. It is not international copyright law. This is why iTunes is technically illegal in Australia, because it can copy cd's

Uh. No. iTunes can be used to perform actions that are illegal (copying cds), but since when has this made the product used automatically illegal? So, is my dual cassette deck (that I once owned) illegal as well, becaue it could be used to dub tapes? No? Huh. I know some American law wanted to make technology that could incite people to breach copyright illegal, but I'm pretty sure no such law exists in Australia.

--
Sometimes bad things happen.

Re:The $sys$ prefixing thing was apparently wrong by kasperd · 2005-11-07 09:15 · Score: 1

You do know that rootkits started on UNIX and have plagued Linux for some time now.

Plague is an exaggeration. You can write rootkits for any OS. The major difference is that Windows has a security hole, that will allow any CD to easilly install software without the user's knowledge.

What this rootkit does to Windows could be done to Linux as well, and it would have the same negative effects on the system. Between Linux 2.4 and 2.6 it was made more difficult to modify the system call table for the exact same reasons Microsoft made it more difficult when moving from 32 bit to 64 bit.

But eventhough you could write the rootkit for Linux, it does not install just because you insert the CD. And as long as the rootkit is just on the CD, it does not influence on your ripping.

--

Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?

MOD PARENT SCARY by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 09:28 · Score: 0

Or maybe just Insightful and Informative, though scary it is.

Re:I wonder...if they preinstall this on new Vaios by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 09:30 · Score: 0

Sony, like pretty much every other mass marketer of computers preinstalls a lot of software on every system they sell.

Do their latest computers come with a pre-installed rootkit to save me the trouble and expense of going out and buying one and installing it? Because that would be customer service!

Re:The $sys$ prefixing thing was apparently wrong by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 09:32 · Score: 0

Could you use spyware-style masking of the names (EXE and Windows) for Media Players and RIPPERS to hide from the DRMServer.exe??
I'm an IT Admin at a mid-sized corp, and I have to deal with ALL the spyware employees get on their PC on a weekly basis. I've seen A LOT of different types of spyware. One of the worst cases I've had to deal with was when this app, every time it ran, it had a new XXXXXXX.exe in task manager and the name and the same for the hidden window it created. This made it impossible for SpyBot to see it, and even though Ad-aware saw it, it could not get rid of it. I ended up just ghosting the machine with a clean image to fix it.

Could a Media Player and a CD Ripper be made that did the same-style of naming that the evil spyware did to hide from Sony?

What about spoofing results back to Sony HQ to throw off the statistics?

Will no one think of the ... by whitehatlurker · 2005-11-07 10:04 · Score: 1

artists? Aren't they really the victims of this?

It rather looks like the artists involved (the Van Zants) are somewhat concerned about the kurfuffle .. they are "continuing to gather more facts concerning this".

Okay, this is likely a dupe, but what the heck ...

--
.. paranoid crackpot leftover from the days of Amiga.

Oblig. Clue quote by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-07 10:18 · Score: 0

Wadsworth: I'm merely a humble butler.
Col. Mustard: What exactly do you do?
Wadsworth: I buttle, sir.
Col. Mustard: Which means what?
Wadsworth: The butler is in charge of the kitchen and dining room. I keep everything tidy, that's all.

Re:NO you are WRONG by Simon+Garlick · 2005-11-07 11:14 · Score: 2, Informative

I believe you meant "using Itunes to copy a CD is technically illegal in Australia". Murder is illegal in Australia, but that doesn't mean knives are illegal.

--

-----
PGP Key ID 0xCB8FF658

Re:I wonder...NOT by jcr · 2005-11-07 11:35 · Score: 1

Sony's rootkit is designed for windows, autoplay, etc and so on, but you really can't blame Microsoft in this case.

Like hell we can't!

As for autoplay being a bad idea, it is and it isn't

No, autoplay is a bad idea, period. It's a horrific security hole, as this whole Sony rootkit debacle shows.

-jcr

--
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."

Never buy Sony CD's again! by avanderveen · 2005-11-07 11:53 · Score: 1

When I read this article I immediately thought, "Well, if Sony is going to be an idiot and screw with my computer allowing programs (and potentially viruses) to be hidden from me using $sys$, then I'm never buying a Sony CD containing this on it again."

Right after that I thought... "I wonder how many other people are thinking the same thing right now?"

Then it struck me, isn't Sony just going to kill their CD sales among the Nerd community who know what kind of crap Sony's trying to pull. On top of that aren't they just allowing for viruses to spread among the computer illiterate (by that I mean people who don't pay attention to this kind of thing), they probably won't download the patch... and then, they'll be screwed.

On another note... I hope Sony gets screwed over on this one... maybe they'll be required to change the software.

Boycott by dcam · 2005-11-07 11:59 · Score: 1

Right that does it.

I've just sent in some feedback on the some of the forms offered on the Sony website. I've provided links to the blog articles for their information. I also let them know:
- I will not buying any Sony products in the forseeable future
- I will be emailing friends, acquaintances and family explaining what is ocurring and recommending a boycott of all Sony products.

I recommend that others do the same.

FWIW, the text of the email I am sending out is:

A furore has erupted online recently over some software that Sony has
shipped with some music CDs.

Effectively in an attempt to stop people from copying CDs to their
computers, Sony CDs will install some software onto your computer when a
music CD is first put into the drive. This software alters windows in a
way that makes it less secure. It also hides itself and is next to
impossible to remove. Also each time a CD us put into the drive it
"phones home" to Sony tell them what CD you are playing.

There are many concerns with this. In the first place it is not clear
that software is being installed on your machine when the CD is
inserted. Secondly it is deceptive by hiding the software. Thirdly no
means of uninstalling the software is provided. Finally there are
privacy concerns with software that tracks how you use your computer.

One week after this was revealed, Sony has failed to respond to these
concerns.

I am writing to recommend that you boycott all Sony products. The Sony
family of companies are:
- Sony
- Sony BMG
- Sony Erickson
- Sony Computer Entertainment

I also suggest that you take a moment to let Sony know that you are
unhappy with their actions at one of the following feedback forms:
http://www.sonybmg.com.au/misc/contact.do
http://www.sonyericsson.com/spg.jsp?cc=global&lc=e n&ver=4001&template=ph1_2&zone=ph
http://www.sony.com.au/support/contactus/contactUs .jsp?categoryId=22847

For further technical details on how the Sony CDs operate:
http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2005/10/sony-root kits-and-digital-rights.html
http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2005/11/more-on-s ony-dangerous-decloaking.html

--
meh

Re:I wonder...NOT by John+Miles · 2005-11-07 12:36 · Score: 1

It's a horrific security hole, as this whole Sony rootkit debacle shows.

Horrific security holes don't usually take ten years to become apparent, do they?

Blaming Microsoft for this is like blaming a woman in a short skirt for being raped.

--
Dahlmann tightly grips the knife, which he may have no idea how to use, and steps out into the plain.

Re:I wonder...NOT by jcr · 2005-11-07 13:23 · Score: 1

Horrific security holes don't usually take ten years to become apparent, do they?

It didn't take ten years for the autoplay vulnerability to become apparent, either. Apple remedied that mistake as of the first developer preview of OS X, about five years ago. What's MS's excuse?

-jcr

--
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."

Re:The $sys$ prefixing thing was apparently wrong by yuri+benjamin · 2005-11-07 15:48 · Score: 2, Interesting

What about spoofing results back to Sony HQ to throw off the statistics?

Yes. In fact, if someone wrote a script that mimics the rootkit with regard to talking to Sony HQ that just spits out random bogus data, I'd run that script all day (after getting a programmer friend to check it for malware).

It's our duty to poison phishers' and corporate data harvesters' databases.

--
You make the mistake of thinking you can educate the fundamental stupidity out of people. You can't.

Defective Goods by csk_1975 · 2005-11-07 16:39 · Score: 1

This is so true and really worth keeping in mind whenever you return something. If you are returning something which is defective and the store cannot replace it with a non-defective item then they'll refund your money - its not worth their while doing anything else. Case in point I returned two defective toys on the weekend to a local department store and asked for replacements which they couldn't supply as they were out of stock. The shop assistant then offered to give me gift vouchers instead of a refund. I refused and said I wanted non-defective toys. She said it was store policy to give gift vouchers and not refunds. I then asked if it was store policy to sell defective goods and not give refunds. At this point she gave me my money back. Shame was I really wanted the toys for my friend's kids and now I'll have to look elsewhere for them.

SYMANTEC'S RESPONSE (i love this!) by firepacket · 2005-11-07 16:50 · Score: 1

From http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc /data/securityrisk.aries.html

WARNING: Removing this security risk manually may damage the compromised computer's operating system and may violate the manufacturer's end-user license agreement.
Symantec Security Response strongly recommends installing the software update provided by the manufacturer

Isnt that wonderful? "Removing this security risk may violate the manufacturer's EULA"

Yes, I would hate to do something illegal. I think I'd much rather install the *new* version of their spyware instead

Re:SYMANTEC'S RESPONSE (i love this!) by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-18 14:47 · Score: 0

Ok, this was enough stupidity from Symantec part, I just uninstalled Symantec Norton Anti-virus from my computer and will get a freeware program instead. It's seem like they can't protect us from the emerging threats.

Ergotism by csk_1975 · 2005-11-07 16:55 · Score: 1

Even in my book, feeding ergot to pointy haired bosses and marketroids sounds a bit harsh:-

Ergotism struck the peasants and killed thousands of people. It was called Holy Fire because of the buring sensations at the extremities from gangrenous ergotism. The people suffered from swollen blisters, rotting flesh, and loss of limbs.

(Yeah I know what you meant)

Re:The $sys$ prefixing thing was apparently wrong by DA-MAN · 2005-11-07 17:01 · Score: 1

Plague is an exaggeration.

Maybe now, but early Linux distros had no firewalls by default and didn't ask you to use a non-root account. Newer distros force the issue a lot because of this. Gone are the days when telnet was started by default. I helped quite a few newbies rebuild their system after getting both rooted and having root kits installed.

The major difference is that Windows has a security hole, that will allow any CD to easilly install software without the user's knowledge.

No, the major difference is that Windows users are always running as 'root'. If this autorun executed as a regular user, we would have no problem.

--
Can I get an eye poke?
Dog House Forum

Re:The $sys$ prefixing thing was apparently RIGHT by Old+Wolf · 2005-11-07 17:15 · Score: 1

(This is your fnord speaking) Muzzy's theory is actually correct. However he was contacted by RIAA soon after making that post, and forced under the DMCA and various other four-letter acronyms, to distance himself from his earlier comments or face a lawsuit.

Re:NO you are WRONG by DA-MAN · 2005-11-07 17:16 · Score: 1

Uh. No. iTunes can be used to perform actions that are illegal (copying cds), but since when has this made the product used automatically illegal?

Actually yes. I may have been mistaken about the AU law, although I did read that from an Australian Lawyer's post on Slashdot. I do know that they do not have a fair use doctrine.

However there are many examples where things are deemed illegal if their primary use is illegal. For example Grokster, Napster, etc. In Australia there was no iTunes Music Store up until recently and Apple's
iTunes ad does say "Rip, Burn, Mix".

--
Can I get an eye poke?
Dog House Forum

Re:NO you are WRONG by DA-MAN · 2005-11-07 17:18 · Score: 1

I believe you meant "using Itunes to copy a CD is technically illegal in Australia". Murder is illegal in Australia, but that doesn't mean knives are illegal.

Weren't you paying attention about when the Grokster case came to a close. Grokster was deemed illegal because it's primary use was copyright infringement.

Now don't you think a country that has no Fair Use law might have made it illegal for iTunes.

--
Can I get an eye poke?
Dog House Forum

Re:I wonder...NOT by senatorpjt · 2005-11-07 17:32 · Score: 1

It is possible to create a kernel module that intercepts system calls on OS X. Any admin user can install a kernel module - and most users are accustomed to entering their password when installing.

They are not, however, accustomed to entering their password when playing an audio CD.

Re:The $sys$ prefixing thing was apparently wrong by kasperd · 2005-11-07 17:49 · Score: 1

but early Linux distros had no firewalls by default
No matter what problem you are trying to solve, there is always a better solution than a firewall.

didn't ask you to use a non-root account.
Red Hat Linux 6.0 warned me when loging in as root.

Gone are the days when telnet was started by default.
Having telnet open is in itself not a major problem. But of course if you use it, you will send passwords in clertext. Like any other software, it must be kept updated. I don't remember exactly when Red Hat started making updates easilly available.

If this autorun executed as a regular user
It would still be a security problem, but not as bad as it is now.

--

Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?

Windows Vista is a partial solution by Myria · 2005-11-07 19:18 · Score: 1

Windows Vista has a partial solution to this. When you insert a CD, it asks you what you want to do with it. You can run the autorun script, or load it directly in Windows Media Player (which effectively bypasses the protection). Or do nothing and run your favorite ripping program.

It is a felony for someone to tell you how to remove it, or how to avoid installing it. Hence the "Post Anonymously".

What greatly disturbs me is that the Sony DRM is permanent. If you completely format your hard drive to start over, you are still committing a felony. The DMCA makes no distinction.

--
"Screw Sun, cross-platform will never work. Let's move on and steal the Java language." - Visual J++ Product Manager

Why would you steal it? That is stupid. by http · 2005-11-07 19:34 · Score: 1

Others have said 'Don't steal it', but here's my singular argument for not stealing it:
1) You steal it from store.
2) Store makes insurance claim.
3) Insurance company reimburses store.
4) Store buys more stock of DRM chained CD-like objects from Sony.
You have just VOTED for Sony's DRM. Happy yet?
Yeah, I know, there's never going to be a claim on just one CD stolen. But that's not the point - over the course of a year, their inventory system will include whatever DRM encumbered CD-like objects people have stolen. Stealing one just adds an argument for DRM to the business model, and tells the store that it's an in demand item to boot.
Don't steal this. Have no truck with these DRM encumbered CD-like objects. If you do, it will just encourage them. </$0.02>

--
If opportunity came disguised as temptation, one knock would be enough.
3^2 * 67^1 * 977^1

Looks like I'm going to jail by Myria · 2005-11-07 19:38 · Score: 1

I forgot to check "post anonymously".

--
"Screw Sun, cross-platform will never work. Let's move on and steal the Java language." - Visual J++ Product Manager

"Me too!" by krischik · 2005-11-07 21:14 · Score: 1

Shure I won't buy another sony CD as well.

Re:The $sys$ prefixing thing was apparently wrong by DA-MAN · 2005-11-07 21:34 · Score: 1

but early Linux distros had no firewalls by default
No matter what problem you are trying to solve, there is always a better solution than a firewall.

Who said anything about using firewalls as solution to problems? We were talking about system security. Security is best done in layers, and a firewall is a good layer to have.

didn't ask you to use a non-root account.
Red Hat Linux 6.0 warned me when loging in as root.

Try further back. I started with Linux on Yggdrasil, but automated malware wasn't that big of a deal then. It started becoming a real problem around the time RedHat 4 was released, which originally configured sendmail as an open relay.

Gone are the days when telnet was started by default.
Having telnet open is in itself not a major problem. But of course if you use it, you will send passwords in clertext. Like any other software, it must be kept updated. I don't remember exactly when Red Hat started making updates easilly available.

Because telnet was enabled by default, people didn't realize that this was such a bad thing. It's the same reason so much crap comes into Windows machines via IE. In addition, it's the reason we are having this conversation. Autorun can be disabled, it's just a bad default! Bad defaults lead to bad behavior in uneducated users.

If this autorun executed as a regular user
It would still be a security problem, but not as bad as it is now.

Bad defaults are bad defaults. Red Hat use to do it, see:

http://mirrors.kernel.org/redhat/redhat/linux/7.2/ en/os/i386/autorun

--
Can I get an eye poke?
Dog House Forum

Re:The $sys$ prefixing thing was apparently wrong by kasperd · 2005-11-07 23:09 · Score: 1

Try further back.
Back then I was using AmigaOS.

Because telnet was enabled by default,... Autorun can be disabled,
Are you trying to compare telnet and autorun? Telnet is not nearly as insecure by design as autorun. If telnet is enabled and the user doesn't do anything about it, it will just sit there idle doing no harm. Autorun OTOH will act autonomously once a CD is inserted. Autorun is insecure by design.

Red Hat use to do it
Yes, even Red Hat makes mistakes. I'm not sure if it was by default configured as insecurely as it was the case on Windows. As soon as I found out about this feature's existence on Red Hat Linux, i started uninstalling it on all my machines. (Yes, you can actually do rpm -e autorun). The autorun in Red Hat Linux was something running under KDE and Gnome. As long as you were not logged into one of those environments, there would be no autorun. Loging in as root in a VT was safe.

--

Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?

Re:The $sys$ prefixing thing was apparently wrong by Anonymous Coward · 2005-11-08 03:09 · Score: 0

Microsoft Windows is one of the best operating systems out there, and there's no denying it! Linux hippies can continue throwing around flowers and dancing all they want, Windows is better for me. And no need to quote my own words from previous item about tools and whining losers, the whole open source community is full of people who just follow the lead and reimplement everything. Then they claim there's no need for the leader, after all they've been doing is following a path laid down by others. As if they got there on their own! It's always easy when someone else shows how things should be.

Microsoft could not exist without it's core - MS DOS - this is a rip off of QDOS - invented long before MS DOS and better at the time. MS ripped them off and used a marketing machine to do the rest. The inventer of QDOS is thought to have gone into depression over this. You can always check the Wiki. Anyway, you are right MS has always had leadership but there leadership would lead nothing without the innovation. The question is do you support innovation or marketing first...?

Re:The $sys$ prefixing thing was apparently wrong by DA-MAN · 2005-11-08 07:38 · Score: 1

Try further back.
Back then I was using AmigaOS.

Then you have no opinion as a Linux user for the time period I am referring to. Gotcha.

Because telnet was enabled by default,... Autorun can be disabled,
Are you trying to compare telnet and autorun? Telnet is not nearly as insecure by design as autorun. If telnet is enabled and the user doesn't do anything about it, it will just sit there idle doing no harm. Autorun OTOH will act autonomously once a CD is inserted. Autorun is insecure by design.

I am comparing bad defaults in two OS's. Bad defaults do in fact encourage bad behaviour. I am saying that both are bad defaults that encourage bad behaviour. I am not saying that telnet is as bad as autorun. As another example, a year ago most access points were wide open. Today most access points I see are WEP enabled minimum. My wrt54g was secured with wpa by default!

Red Hat use to do it
Yes, even Red Hat makes mistakes. I'm not sure if it was by default configured as insecurely as it was the case on Windows. As soon as I found out about this feature's existence on Red Hat Linux, i started uninstalling it on all my machines. (Yes, you can actually do rpm -e autorun). The autorun in Red Hat Linux was something running under KDE and Gnome. As long as you were not logged into one of those environments, there would be no autorun. Loging in as root in a VT was safe.

It's still part of the default install in Fedora. The reason it's not that big of a problem is that regular users do not have the power to shoot the system in the foot. It can be disabled easily in Windows too. The problem here is that most Windows users run as Administrtator, plain and simple. And a lot of that has to do with the fact that Windows is hard to use for non-admin newbies. Linux is structured by default in that manner.

--
Can I get an eye poke?
Dog House Forum

Any sysadmins out there and worried about this? by Blue_Wombat · 2005-11-08 19:07 · Score: 1

I am not a sysadmin. However, I work for a fairly large (several thousand desktops) org at the moment, which has a fairly ummm anal computer network policy. Surely this sort of thing could pose a threat to the integrity of the network?

This seems like a great opportunity to educate the masses about DRM and generate a bit of a blast against Sony. I have sent an email, with a link to the relevant articles, to our IT division. I suggested that they send out a short email to the effect that they know that many people listen to music on their PCs, but until this is resolved it is expressly forbidden to place a Sony CD in a work machine, put a Sony CD in any machine with dial in access to the work network, and especially forbidden to install software of this type. Unless this software is removable, and it is clearly known what it does and does not do - including interfere with other software, then it appears to pose an unacceptable security risk.

I also suggested that they make it clear in very simple terms that CDs from other labels are still OK, and that it is a sound idea for people to not put Sony CDs in any home computer as well.

It seems to me that slashdotters are likely to disproportionatley occupy positions of technical influence in their workplaces, and that if many of us do this we will make lots of people that would not otherwise care aware that there is a big hairy problem here. If enough of us do this, we should be able to make the bastards feel some heat!

NB: I am also crafting an email to Sony telling them what I have done. Why not do the same as well, make 'em squirm!

Ha Ha, indeed! The inevitable Tees! by straight_up · 2005-11-15 13:46 · Score: 1

Who's to say that Nelson isn't laughing about his new $sys$ camo t-shirt?

--
Get your $sys$ camo tees now!

President of BMG's Global Digital Business by AMD4L1PH3 · 2005-11-18 18:03 · Score: 1

wow... the PRESIDENT of Sony BMG's Global Digital Business said,

"...Most people, I think, do not even know what a Rootkit is, so why should they care about it?.."

Sony Music CDs Under Fire from Privacy Advocates http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?story Id=4989260

(Click on the the LISTEN button)

494 comments