Sure, you can't steal it outright, but lets say you are a company, you own all of the research equipment and capitol. I am a scientist working for you, everything I publish, according to a contract, must be forfeited to you. I can keep my IP only by losing my job. I might get a small bonus, or a slight raise for something that made you hundreds of millions of dollars.
Yea, and then you lose your access to facilities, your job, your health care, your retirement, everything. Creating a start-up only works if you can afford to, otherwise you sit on it, without a job, until it expires.
Since when did that ever matter? All those out there today that produce intellectual property never see the benefits, or even own it, instead it is owned by some company who takes all of the profits. Scientists and Engineers that should be filthy rich from amazing inventions might be getting paid 50k a year while the stockholders of their company walk away with all of the money that they earned.
There is nothing in copyright that says "You had to create this in order to own it".
Agreed, I was having problems with a few small subjects in advanced calculus three, and not only did he make it easy to understand, he went much deeper in depth and really helped me a lot. This man is a hero, at the very least. hopefully people join him in other subjects and make it even greater.
Its all funny money. Just a couple months before the big crash they were worth a lot more. Stock markets that rely on extremely fast trading don't represent the value of the company, they represent what banks want them to be valued at, so that they can make the most money.
There is a big difference between "whoops, bug" and "lets put a giant error right here, and then charge our customers money to fix it" Its basically extortion.
Here in the US, not only is it not illegal to do that, but several companies hold patents on different ways of doing that. It seems to be heavily encouraged to ass-rape every customer you have ever had here, but there is actually a place where this is not so!!?!?!? EGADS!
If problems persist, or get worse, your doctor sends you to another one that can better handle it. A good 99.9% of the time it is just as simple as it appears. Its just that very rare occasion that something isn't right, and then its investigated or fixed.
Yea, sure maybe for the most extreme, difficult cases. the 99.9999% of the time, when they are just dealing with routine procedures? I'd take just about any reasonable doctor for that, like top 90%. Also, the AMA prevents a lot of colleges from being certified medical schools, meaning you have to be in practically the top 10-20% of your college class to get into med school, as there are so few of them. So that how many people out to become doctors do end up as such? Not many. Triple, quadruple that number, and all of a sudden health care is a lot cheaper.
um... That's kind of like saying "sure a cure for cancer is available, but we aren't allowed to give it to anyone unless they can follow the treasure map, find the book with the scientific name of the cure in it, and then come to us and repeat it perfectly 3 times strait, we must wipe knowledge that such a thing exists from the world, so it likely won't ever be a problem" - you can't request it if you are never told it is an option, if you are not even aware of its existence. I can't describe the color red if I am color blind.
Sure it is available, but if it is hidden and damn near impossible to get (or just hidden and your average joe) then it existing is just a technicality, for all practical purposes, it doesn't exist.
Just because it is technically true, does not mean it is right. In fact it is quite wrong, to purposely cheat customers, and avoid giving them good service at all costs (literally, you ALL COSTS).
Just because its on a desert island doesn't mean its easily available. It means you have to swim to a fucking island and dig it up. Big difference between "HERE IT IS" and "what are you talking about? oh, blocks? um, like the ones you build with? oh, well, to get that, I have to tell you all of the DEVIL WILL EAT YOUR BRAIN IF YOU GET IT features that you will be losing out on... list... are you still there sir? maam? goat?? what did you say you wanted again?? oh, blocks? like the ones with letters on the side that you build stuff with?..."
Just because your mom is available doesn't mean I can get with her, maybe she is a lesbian, and that would mean although she is available, it is impossible for me to get her in bed, short of a roofie colada, and even then its pushing it.
Just think of the blocks like your mother, a giant contradiction. Also, I do not mean offence, I am just trying to make a point.
... I see, it's kinda like insurance companies "cheat the customers as much as possible, or YOUR FIRED" yea, same old profit maximizing bullshit. Someday companies will actually give a shit about providing good services and having happy, loyal employees and customers. Someday.
alright, you are absolutely retarded, I destyoed all of these arguments in another part of this threat against another Mac head. I provided direct links to identical computers from Apple.com and Dell.com, that explicitly show apple to have a pretty constant extra 50% added to their price, for the entire computer. The OS itself, doesn't matter much because installing an Apple OS on a non-Apple computer is a dangerous thing, compatibility and stability die instantly.
Also, Apple pretty much has a monopoly on iphone-ipad-ipod like devices, and forces censorship through their app-store. Also, windows have a lot more of the market than apple. A hell of a lot more. That shows that more people like it than Apples tiny little market share in the full size computer area.
The issue at hand for example, a district with 1300 kids, each of which would be forced to buy an Apple laptop, or the school buys them and rents them out. The Apple laptop in question is 900 dollars starting cost, and the equivelent PC is only 600. Over the span of the whole school, that is 400,000 in savings by switching to PC instead of Macs.
And I have never had any problems with a PC crashing, except with blatant, terrible user errors. It takes an absolute moron to crash a PC, my home built system can run dozens of programs of all sizes at once and never, ever crashes. You fucking Apple heads are totally nutz, ignoring the reality of the situation just because you are so in love with Apple, I bet you would still purchase and make love to their products if they started systematically killing anyone who publicly denounced them. Seriously, get a grip, go to Apple.com and dell.com or hp.com or acer.com and compare prices for computers with the same hardware. The apple computer will ALWAYS be significantly more.
No, you can not find a link to an obviously discounted computer outside of Apple and say that it is a standard price. You configure the computer on Apple's website, or your full of shit, anyone can find a cheap computer on google store or ebay, even when its not on the actual site, meaning a school looking to buy a couple hundred units is not going to be able to do it that way.
Market share says quite a bit actually, it says "the market prefers this product 9 times as much as this product". And it hasn't only been that way for the past couple months, its been that way for several years, a decade even. Thats a hell of a lot of inertia. If Macs were really better, I am sure the market would have corrected over such a long time period, especially after microsoft was cut down via anti-trust lawsuits.
Alright, now lets get back to the numbers. Dell offers significant discounts to educational facilities, probably moreso than Apple does, like I said before, it gives their brand name cred which they use to get the average consumer to pay more, (as considering Apples hate of knowledge, is also their motivation). So lets just use the commercial sale figures here. 1300 students times 900 bucks = 1,170,000 dollars for the Apple product. Now for the equivalent dell, 1300 students times 600 bucks = 780,000. That is an initial savings of 390,000, which is 1/3 the total cost of the Macs, or about half the total cost of the dells. That is a small school district, my old school district would have had to purchase nearly 5,000, which puts the cost at a much higher number. To increase costs by a factor of 1.5x, is a shit-ton of money to be shelling out just to get a different operating system, especially when the taxes that power the school district are local, and if the town has 20,000 people, that 400k makes a big ass difference. And without any definitive proof that Apple takes less repairs over time (which is a load of bullshit), then the cost of ownership is a lot less, especially for a school district that needs to network them all in. Not to mention, Dell is one of the most expensive PC brands to begin with, so those savings are worst case scenario.
and finding Apples website is not at all hard. Just www.apple.com, click mac pro, and do it. And to be honest, I went to their site and couldn't put one together for 35k either, but I am positive I did when I bought this computer, which was black friday of last year.
increasing costs by a factor of 1.5x for a subjective preference is a load of bullshit, especially in a country that values education about low as possible on the list of what is important. Especially when the change is for a non-industry standard OS that runs a lot fewer programs, especially in the engineering and math sector. Not to mention it is harder to build, maintain and run custom software or customizations of the OS on a Mac, and a lot of classes require specific software that is not made for every OS. In terms of those factors, it wouldn't be worth it even if the Macs were cheaper by half.
And the bank bailout was not approved of by everyone, paying hundreds of billions on banks that bankrupt themselves by betting and gambling on loan packages made out of predatory lending mortgages, and then basing the entirety of our credit system on top of that betting, is not something we generally like. Nobody likes paying the bastards that broke into your home and stole everything you own.
I provided two links, directly to Apple and Dell with examples that showed the Apple product of lesser quality to be significantly more expensive. You posted some obscure dell laptop and a link in google store, which is totally unofficial, and call it sufficient proof to counter act it? That is the kind of bull that is getting me pissed.
Your a moron. I don't even know how long it took you to find such an example, considering one is an off page of google store in german, while the other is actually at dell, which I have already stated is probably the priciest of the PC brands. All you have proven is that you are an asshole, who bends facts and relies on exceptions to the rule as the rule itself. Your fantasies are so wrong, its almost funny.
Also, more people prefer windows to Mac. That is just a fact, what percentage of the market is Apple again, like 10%? not exactly at the top. Market forces are more likely right than your small group of apple heads, espeically in an area with literally millions of factors between every single user.
Your pathetic, seriously, just quit already, if you had to search that hard to find a mac that was actually cheaper than a PC, I really doubt a whole school system can get the Macs at that price, especially when Dell offers enormous discounts to bulk purchases, in hopes that having a ubiquitous brand that individuals that use them at school/work will want the same at home. So that school district probably could have saved taxpayers, parents and students millions of dollars, that were instead wasted because of fags like you.
Even upgrading the systems on those pages as much as possible, the best dell is significantly better than the best Mac, and the mac ends up at 8,600.00, while the best dell, which has about twice the power, a lot more ram, and a lot better graphics still only costs 6707.99. Thats still almost 2,000 dollars cheaper for a better computer. You must be off your rocker.
You are dead wrong in that Macs are a lot more expensive than the same windows computer. Like I said, My computer was built by me for 1,400 bucks, from dell it would cost 6,000-7,000 and from Apple it would cost 35,000. Any Mac will cost more than its dell, hp, gateway, acer, toshiba, sony equivelents. And everytime I hear a nut like you on the internet saying apple makes less expensive stuff, I check to make sure, and your still batshit crazy.
Actually, my elementary school used macs and I had to use them a number of times in middle school. even after being familiar with the system, it was harder to use. but like I said, that is irrelevant, because a Mac costs more for the same thing.
The exact same products always cost significantly more from apple than any other computer company that I have found. Seriously, I just searched my ass off to find even one such deal on their website, and they just don't exist. Either you know some special coupon code that makes it cheaper than other products, or you are full of shit. And really, all students need for the everyday demands placed on them are decent laptops, with enough power not to be laggy, and enough HD space to store some simple files. At the very least you have to concede that Apple products are far more expensive than any competitors, and often at the same level as far as hardware goes, unless you honestly think there is a difference between this triple channel kit ddr3 ram running at 2000 hertz is really and different than the triple channel kit of ddr3 ram running at 2000 hertz in an apple computer. I am content with the cheaper brand, which lasts for just as long, and is just as good in reality, but saves taxpayers a lot of money. My computer can do a rendering that took my old system a week to do in half an hour. I can watch my processors and graphics cards work in wonderful graphs and do other things while I wait. Any windows system is just as good, and definitely costs less. In fact, I will go to dell and Apple right now, and list the price comparisons of different identical computers: Mac Pro: 1 2.6ghz quad core processor. 12 gb ram. 1 tb hard drive. nVidia GeForce 120 512 mb, 1 18x optical drive, a 24" flat panel monitor, keyboard and mouse (wired). Dell XPS system: core i7 2.66ghz processor, 12 gb ram, 1 tb hd, nVidia GeForce 310 512 mb, 16x optical drive, 7.1 sound card, wireless mouse and keyboard.
The Apple product (Mac Pro) cost $4848.00, and the dell XPS (which is the same except for a better graphics card) costs only $1,999.99. LESS THAN HALF THE PRICE, and Dell is overpriced to begin with. I call your bullshit and raise you facts, dumbass. For a school system to waste tax dollars like that is a shame, and it is a shame that you insult me for liking to save money. It just so happens I can't afford to spend 35 grand just to get a decent computer that can run everything I need it too. Hell, my computer has 12 Gb ram (2 tripple channel kits) an i7 processor, 2 nvidia GTS 250 graphics cards, 2 tb or harddrive space, and a very nice optical drive, with a 23" hd monitor and two 17" monitors, and all that cost me only 1,400 bucks on black friday last year (including the very nice case and 1000 watt psu).
So yea, I'm driving the affordable mustang, and you paid 5 times what I paid for the same thing, expect your windshield is painted black. we can debate usability all day, but in the end it is preference. I prefer to get things done fast, regardless of the OS, you prefer apple, no matter what. That won't be concluded. But at least we now quantitatively know that an Apple computer costs more than a dell with the exact same internals. And Dell is overpriced to start, so a Windows computer is more worth the money, for the hardware at least. whatever OS you put on it is irrelevant, you buy something from apple, it is overpriced (unless you think OS X is worth 2848 dollars more than windows, in which case this debate is done because your a spoiled rich bitch and need to stop demanding poor people waste their money as badly as you do).
I don't get paid anything. I have used several different types of MAC before, and have found them incredibly painstaking to do anything at all. Windows is so fast its crazy, I honestly love it. Rarely is there anything at all I can't do with ease at windows, and thats such strange stuff I doubt people would see it on a regular basis.
I honestly can't even imagine how anyone could say any Mac has a user-friendly interface, it is such a pain in the ass to navigate and use, it is cumbersome and slow and I can never do anything fast on them. And this isn't advertising, I am complaining about how much Macs suck. If you need to switch between applications quickly, or operating in multiple applications at once, you might as well be scratching calculations onto a rock with a chisel. That, was personal evaluation to a point, it still requires some extra time and effort over windows in multi-application usage.
I believe Apple to be evil because they support cencorship and are abusing their consumer base to control and guide culture. That is pretty much in line with any evil organization in history. To say such behavior is acceptable is only a step below asking the police to enforce culture. Yes, it is partially my belief, but no more my belief than that hitler was evil, mao was evil, stalin was evil, just because they don't kill people doesn't mean they don't destroy culture. And culture is a long term product of humanity, not easily rebuilt after being destroyed, but people can easily just get by without it ie. dark ages.
expert in usability?? sure, if you use 1 application, all the time, never leave it, use it fullscreen, and don't need to do anything outside of that application it is wonderful. But anyone doing real work? bullshit.
should buying decisions of a school district be based on corporate conduct? partially, because whatever they buy is essentially purchased by tax dollars, and it is not in the best interest of the people to fund a company working against culture. but that is not what I said, ever. I said learning windows is more useful in life, business, and everywhere else in life, except for artists, and it is the job of people who spend tax dollars on to get as much as they can per dollar spent, and no apple product fulfills that.
When you can get the same products with an operating system that is far more useful for students learning to join the corporate world, or be able to run more custom programs, more software, and run on more harware and be repaired easier for a fraction of the price, why the fuck would you waste millions of taxpayer dollars paying double what you need to for something that most people consider to be a lot worse than the competition? Even if a few Apple-heads love it, that doesn't mean the other 80-90% of us do to. You think it is right to burn away taxpayer dollars just to support a company that is using every dollar they have to support culture control programs, especially when the product is the same thing (if not worse) for a lot higher price? what are you, on drugs?
When so many of us are struggling just to get by, you want to go and waste our hard earned money on marked up shit? Dollar for dollar, a windows system goes further per dollar. Spending twice as many tax dollars as is necessary is absolutely sickening, if not outright stupid. You can subjectively argue that apple products are better, but just like my opinion, yours too is just an opinion. And your opinion is not worth doubling the cost of providing a good quality learning environment to our children.
Also, are you fucking serious? paying me? I WISH. I just happen to love windows. I have tons of software, and I customize my interface for extremely improved productivity. Between my 3 large monitors I can be running 6 or 7 different programs, putting information and functionality into at my figertips, running between programs and letting my thoughts flow freely into matlab, inventor, excel, system monitoring tools, skype, windows folders, and the internet, getting things don
Actually, the laptop has run perfectly for two years now, without issue. My ex-girlfriend has a macbook that has broken 4 times in the past 8 months. The Macbooks at my old school broke down constantly, but the dells the school had were always running well and happy. Plus, when my computer, or the schools, broke down, it was easy enough to fix, no sending it off the nazi headquarters so that they can peer into the depths of your files and do other evil things.
And I didn't buy it at walmart, I bought it at best buy. I didn't prove your point either, you just made an assumption and claimed it true. Macs are just not worth it, hell, its not even worth it if its free, because several versions of linux are better. Like I know tons of mac fans, even one of my cousins, but I can't understand why when they are always complaining about not being able to run this program, or when they break down and they ask me to fix it, and I can't even get to the proper tools within the OS to fix it. It is just terrible. I really don't know why you think they make quality products, I mean, pretty much everyone I know has been through at least four or five iPods, one person even saw three break in a month, just being in their pocket. Hell, I have had a palm T/X for about 5 years now without issue, and a friend of mine had some dell handheld for 6 years and it still works great. I have never seen an apple product last for more than a year without needing to be fixed. Seriously, their operating system is hampering productivity, their hardware is drastically overpriced. The reasons to avoid it far outpace the reasons to like it, unless of course you have so much money that you don't mind burning it, and using it to wipe your ass.
Well, there are tons of ways to attract large streams of users, but I think you are write hear. From what I have seen, most porn sites infected with maleware are literally stealing the porn from other sites, none of it is original, and you can never actually reach good porn, just links to porn that link to virii.
To be honest, it sounds to me like the porn industry hates those bastards as much as we do.
Also, having a stream of users that is not in a clear state of mind, frantically looking for something good to get off on, so they are really not as likely check the credentials of the site or think at all before clicking on something. It probably makes them easier to manipulate, and therefore easier to hack.
So you want to spend tax dollars to deepen the lock-in? You can't be for real.
No, but I also don't want to be subsidizing shit, especially when it comes to something as important as our children's education. Right now, Windows is the best tool to accomplish that.
You may have noticed this discussion is not about iPhone, iPad nor iPods. So your argument is what, exactly?
What do you mean what is my argument? Would you have purchased exports and endorsed the Nazi party in Germany just because they made good quality, fast moving tanks? Would you stand by evil, because you love all of their products, but most specifically their smallest areas of sales? Not if you had half a brain. If you align perfectly with republicans, but a democrat has a cool pin that you like, do you switch parties? Not if you have a grain of sense. A company whose primary goal is to ilk profit by selling products with built in evil (drm, mandatory use of their stores and nobody else's for apps, oh, and now exclusive advertising agreements, not to mention pushing their morals onto the products users by censoring what the devices can view/do). Are you really going to support a company that uses censorship with taxpayer dollars? and you think me mad.
Impossible. By pure math, if a competing product is available for free (Linux, *BSD, etc.) then you can not beat it in any "per dollar" comparison.
... where can I get one of these free laptops? I don't hate free software, but I think it is important we have them get what is most useful to them. I did not, ever, say linux was cheaper somehow than windows. I just compared their relative usefulness. My comparison was Apple to Win7. In terms of this, Apple will never even come close to value per dollar price. Not even remotely close, and NOTHING any current Apple product can do even comes close to filling in the terrible lack of utility. The Apple OS is ugly, it can not be significantly altered for user enjoyment, and is much harder to learn than windows. I learned how to use a windows computer in about 5 minutes, and I can use thousands of alternate set up types and arrangements for my specific utility. After spending hours playing with Macs, I find thier customization sucks, many important features are difficult to access or find, and the user dynamics will never compare to the quickness of the win7 feel. I can be using several dozen large programs at once, switching between them and moving files in a fraction of a second, with insane productivity levels. Even word processing while looking at data on a web page is difficult and time consumer (as in a second or two) It is incredibly frustrating, even with practice, and it is a pain in the ass. In terms of this, any computer with any Apple OS on it is worth its weight in shit compared to one with win7. Even on their popular handheld devices, the OS may be great for its use, but as long as it is crippled by Apples intense control over everything that hits your screen is downright damning to its value.
You are funny. My wonderful little reality is both wonderful and very real. And gaming is the only use I have left for windos. If Steam continues to add good games, not much longer.
I use my windows computer for everything from web browing, simulation programming and design, virtual prototyping, mathematical modeling, word processing, gaming, communication, finding my way around the countries roads, learning, and anything else I want to do with it. I have yet to find anything that I can't do on my computer that a Mac can, but many things that are much more difficult and crappy on an apple product. Yes, I can think of many improvements that could be made, but Apple has a hell of a long way to go to catch up to the productivity and functionality of windows.
So you want to teach kids computer skills on a non/standard operating system, and allow them to turn in papers with dozens of different incompatible file types.
Windows may have the majority of the market, but it is good. If all of the papers that need to be written have the same functionality as the MS Office series, and operate in the same file formats, no problem, as long as they all work on the same network. Also, not a whole lot of high school students have the technical ability to maintain a linux system. However, I would support a linux laptop requirement far more than I would support a mac series.
Plus, at least microsoft only has a monopoly on the OS, which can be customized and adapted to fit a large variety of needs, unlike Mac, and it runs more programs better than Mac or Linux. Apple uses its OS to create a monopoly on the culture of its users, regulating how and where they get their programs (at least for the iPhone, iPad, and iPods). As for functionality per dollar? Windows is the best value for the dollar. Plus, windows is often illegal, so the OS itself can be free sometimes. I know my old school system had a trial version with activation frozen with some custom features installed, considering how cheap they were with technology, it wasn't above them, took a lot of digging to figure out too.
Sadly, your wonderful little reality is very impractical, the compatibility is just not there.
Censorship on some of their products. They have tried actively to control culture just like 'the man' they were fighting in their commercial in 1984 superbowl.
Also, I might add that apples hardware is pretty much set in stone. No upgradability without crippling the OS, or paying Apples insanely inflated prices. My home built epic-computer can be upgraded whenever I want, in any number of different ways. it is flexible and wonderful, and I don't have to buy a new one just to meet the demands of one newfangled program, until the system is too old to do anything.
I bought a 2.66 ghz core 2 duo with 2 gb ram, and gigabit ethernet with Win7. Do you know how much it cost me? 399.99. It runs like a beauty and has been wonderful, running what I need with ease and finess. I don't know where you buy laptops, but you paid way too much. I have never seen an Apple product that was reasonably priced, but you can get a much cheaper machine with windows installed, assuming you aren't buying insanely expensive gold plated brands.
And are you really going to sacrafice every other program at a school just for the art program? Most schools don't have the absolute top software anyways, there are amazing alternatives that run very well on windows, especially with its significantly better resource management. Just because Macs are based on unix doesn't mean they are really actually useful for studying GNU tools, especially for beginner programming classes. And to be honest, most people and corporations use windows, so wouldn't programmers be better equipped learning the industry standard? You can hate windows all you want, but it is more versatile than any Apple operating system. Linux might be approaching the same quality level, but until it has fully caught up, it won't catch on. Lets be realistic hear.
Slashdot Mirror
Sure, you can't steal it outright, but lets say you are a company, you own all of the research equipment and capitol. I am a scientist working for you, everything I publish, according to a contract, must be forfeited to you. I can keep my IP only by losing my job. I might get a small bonus, or a slight raise for something that made you hundreds of millions of dollars.
That is the typical situation.
Yea, and then you lose your access to facilities, your job, your health care, your retirement, everything. Creating a start-up only works if you can afford to, otherwise you sit on it, without a job, until it expires.
Since when did that ever matter? All those out there today that produce intellectual property never see the benefits, or even own it, instead it is owned by some company who takes all of the profits. Scientists and Engineers that should be filthy rich from amazing inventions might be getting paid 50k a year while the stockholders of their company walk away with all of the money that they earned.
There is nothing in copyright that says "You had to create this in order to own it".
Agreed, I was having problems with a few small subjects in advanced calculus three, and not only did he make it easy to understand, he went much deeper in depth and really helped me a lot. This man is a hero, at the very least. hopefully people join him in other subjects and make it even greater.
Its all funny money. Just a couple months before the big crash they were worth a lot more. Stock markets that rely on extremely fast trading don't represent the value of the company, they represent what banks want them to be valued at, so that they can make the most money.
There is a big difference between "whoops, bug" and "lets put a giant error right here, and then charge our customers money to fix it" Its basically extortion.
Here in the US, not only is it not illegal to do that, but several companies hold patents on different ways of doing that. It seems to be heavily encouraged to ass-rape every customer you have ever had here, but there is actually a place where this is not so!!?!?!? EGADS!
If problems persist, or get worse, your doctor sends you to another one that can better handle it. A good 99.9% of the time it is just as simple as it appears. Its just that very rare occasion that something isn't right, and then its investigated or fixed.
Yea, sure maybe for the most extreme, difficult cases. the 99.9999% of the time, when they are just dealing with routine procedures? I'd take just about any reasonable doctor for that, like top 90%. Also, the AMA prevents a lot of colleges from being certified medical schools, meaning you have to be in practically the top 10-20% of your college class to get into med school, as there are so few of them. So that how many people out to become doctors do end up as such? Not many. Triple, quadruple that number, and all of a sudden health care is a lot cheaper.
um... That's kind of like saying "sure a cure for cancer is available, but we aren't allowed to give it to anyone unless they can follow the treasure map, find the book with the scientific name of the cure in it, and then come to us and repeat it perfectly 3 times strait, we must wipe knowledge that such a thing exists from the world, so it likely won't ever be a problem" - you can't request it if you are never told it is an option, if you are not even aware of its existence. I can't describe the color red if I am color blind.
Sure it is available, but if it is hidden and damn near impossible to get (or just hidden and your average joe) then it existing is just a technicality, for all practical purposes, it doesn't exist.
Just because it is technically true, does not mean it is right. In fact it is quite wrong, to purposely cheat customers, and avoid giving them good service at all costs (literally, you ALL COSTS).
Just because its on a desert island doesn't mean its easily available. It means you have to swim to a fucking island and dig it up. Big difference between "HERE IT IS" and "what are you talking about? oh, blocks? um, like the ones you build with? oh, well, to get that, I have to tell you all of the DEVIL WILL EAT YOUR BRAIN IF YOU GET IT features that you will be losing out on ... list... are you still there sir? maam? goat?? what did you say you wanted again?? oh, blocks? like the ones with letters on the side that you build stuff with?..."
Just because your mom is available doesn't mean I can get with her, maybe she is a lesbian, and that would mean although she is available, it is impossible for me to get her in bed, short of a roofie colada, and even then its pushing it.
Just think of the blocks like your mother, a giant contradiction. Also, I do not mean offence, I am just trying to make a point.
... I see, it's kinda like insurance companies "cheat the customers as much as possible, or YOUR FIRED" yea, same old profit maximizing bullshit. Someday companies will actually give a shit about providing good services and having happy, loyal employees and customers. Someday.
alright, you are absolutely retarded, I destyoed all of these arguments in another part of this threat against another Mac head. I provided direct links to identical computers from Apple.com and Dell.com, that explicitly show apple to have a pretty constant extra 50% added to their price, for the entire computer. The OS itself, doesn't matter much because installing an Apple OS on a non-Apple computer is a dangerous thing, compatibility and stability die instantly.
Also, Apple pretty much has a monopoly on iphone-ipad-ipod like devices, and forces censorship through their app-store. Also, windows have a lot more of the market than apple. A hell of a lot more. That shows that more people like it than Apples tiny little market share in the full size computer area.
The issue at hand for example, a district with 1300 kids, each of which would be forced to buy an Apple laptop, or the school buys them and rents them out. The Apple laptop in question is 900 dollars starting cost, and the equivelent PC is only 600. Over the span of the whole school, that is 400,000 in savings by switching to PC instead of Macs.
And I have never had any problems with a PC crashing, except with blatant, terrible user errors. It takes an absolute moron to crash a PC, my home built system can run dozens of programs of all sizes at once and never, ever crashes. You fucking Apple heads are totally nutz, ignoring the reality of the situation just because you are so in love with Apple, I bet you would still purchase and make love to their products if they started systematically killing anyone who publicly denounced them. Seriously, get a grip, go to Apple.com and dell.com or hp.com or acer.com and compare prices for computers with the same hardware. The apple computer will ALWAYS be significantly more.
No, you can not find a link to an obviously discounted computer outside of Apple and say that it is a standard price. You configure the computer on Apple's website, or your full of shit, anyone can find a cheap computer on google store or ebay, even when its not on the actual site, meaning a school looking to buy a couple hundred units is not going to be able to do it that way.
Market share says quite a bit actually, it says "the market prefers this product 9 times as much as this product". And it hasn't only been that way for the past couple months, its been that way for several years, a decade even. Thats a hell of a lot of inertia. If Macs were really better, I am sure the market would have corrected over such a long time period, especially after microsoft was cut down via anti-trust lawsuits.
Alright, now lets get back to the numbers. Dell offers significant discounts to educational facilities, probably moreso than Apple does, like I said before, it gives their brand name cred which they use to get the average consumer to pay more, (as considering Apples hate of knowledge, is also their motivation). So lets just use the commercial sale figures here. 1300 students times 900 bucks = 1,170,000 dollars for the Apple product. Now for the equivalent dell, 1300 students times 600 bucks = 780,000. That is an initial savings of 390,000, which is 1/3 the total cost of the Macs, or about half the total cost of the dells. That is a small school district, my old school district would have had to purchase nearly 5,000, which puts the cost at a much higher number. To increase costs by a factor of 1.5x, is a shit-ton of money to be shelling out just to get a different operating system, especially when the taxes that power the school district are local, and if the town has 20,000 people, that 400k makes a big ass difference. And without any definitive proof that Apple takes less repairs over time (which is a load of bullshit), then the cost of ownership is a lot less, especially for a school district that needs to network them all in. Not to mention, Dell is one of the most expensive PC brands to begin with, so those savings are worst case scenario.
and finding Apples website is not at all hard. Just www.apple.com, click mac pro, and do it. And to be honest, I went to their site and couldn't put one together for 35k either, but I am positive I did when I bought this computer, which was black friday of last year.
increasing costs by a factor of 1.5x for a subjective preference is a load of bullshit, especially in a country that values education about low as possible on the list of what is important. Especially when the change is for a non-industry standard OS that runs a lot fewer programs, especially in the engineering and math sector. Not to mention it is harder to build, maintain and run custom software or customizations of the OS on a Mac, and a lot of classes require specific software that is not made for every OS. In terms of those factors, it wouldn't be worth it even if the Macs were cheaper by half.
And the bank bailout was not approved of by everyone, paying hundreds of billions on banks that bankrupt themselves by betting and gambling on loan packages made out of predatory lending mortgages, and then basing the entirety of our credit system on top of that betting, is not something we generally like. Nobody likes paying the bastards that broke into your home and stole everything you own.
I provided two links, directly to Apple and Dell with examples that showed the Apple product of lesser quality to be significantly more expensive. You posted some obscure dell laptop and a link in google store, which is totally unofficial, and call it sufficient proof to counter act it? That is the kind of bull that is getting me pissed.
Your a moron. I don't even know how long it took you to find such an example, considering one is an off page of google store in german, while the other is actually at dell, which I have already stated is probably the priciest of the PC brands. All you have proven is that you are an asshole, who bends facts and relies on exceptions to the rule as the rule itself. Your fantasies are so wrong, its almost funny.
Also, more people prefer windows to Mac. That is just a fact, what percentage of the market is Apple again, like 10%? not exactly at the top. Market forces are more likely right than your small group of apple heads, espeically in an area with literally millions of factors between every single user.
Your pathetic, seriously, just quit already, if you had to search that hard to find a mac that was actually cheaper than a PC, I really doubt a whole school system can get the Macs at that price, especially when Dell offers enormous discounts to bulk purchases, in hopes that having a ubiquitous brand that individuals that use them at school/work will want the same at home. So that school district probably could have saved taxpayers, parents and students millions of dollars, that were instead wasted because of fags like you.
Even upgrading the systems on those pages as much as possible, the best dell is significantly better than the best Mac, and the mac ends up at 8,600.00, while the best dell, which has about twice the power, a lot more ram, and a lot better graphics still only costs 6707.99. Thats still almost 2,000 dollars cheaper for a better computer. You must be off your rocker.
You are dead wrong in that Macs are a lot more expensive than the same windows computer. Like I said, My computer was built by me for 1,400 bucks, from dell it would cost 6,000-7,000 and from Apple it would cost 35,000. Any Mac will cost more than its dell, hp, gateway, acer, toshiba, sony equivelents. And everytime I hear a nut like you on the internet saying apple makes less expensive stuff, I check to make sure, and your still batshit crazy.
Actually, my elementary school used macs and I had to use them a number of times in middle school. even after being familiar with the system, it was harder to use. but like I said, that is irrelevant, because a Mac costs more for the same thing.
The exact same products always cost significantly more from apple than any other computer company that I have found. Seriously, I just searched my ass off to find even one such deal on their website, and they just don't exist. Either you know some special coupon code that makes it cheaper than other products, or you are full of shit. And really, all students need for the everyday demands placed on them are decent laptops, with enough power not to be laggy, and enough HD space to store some simple files. At the very least you have to concede that Apple products are far more expensive than any competitors, and often at the same level as far as hardware goes, unless you honestly think there is a difference between this triple channel kit ddr3 ram running at 2000 hertz is really and different than the triple channel kit of ddr3 ram running at 2000 hertz in an apple computer. I am content with the cheaper brand, which lasts for just as long, and is just as good in reality, but saves taxpayers a lot of money. My computer can do a rendering that took my old system a week to do in half an hour. I can watch my processors and graphics cards work in wonderful graphs and do other things while I wait. Any windows system is just as good, and definitely costs less. In fact, I will go to dell and Apple right now, and list the price comparisons of different identical computers:
Mac Pro: 1 2.6ghz quad core processor. 12 gb ram. 1 tb hard drive. nVidia GeForce 120 512 mb, 1 18x optical drive, a 24" flat panel monitor, keyboard and mouse (wired).
Dell XPS system: core i7 2.66ghz processor, 12 gb ram, 1 tb hd, nVidia GeForce 310 512 mb, 16x optical drive, 7.1 sound card, wireless mouse and keyboard.
The Apple product (Mac Pro) cost $4848.00, and the dell XPS (which is the same except for a better graphics card) costs only $1,999.99. LESS THAN HALF THE PRICE, and Dell is overpriced to begin with. I call your bullshit and raise you facts, dumbass. For a school system to waste tax dollars like that is a shame, and it is a shame that you insult me for liking to save money. It just so happens I can't afford to spend 35 grand just to get a decent computer that can run everything I need it too. Hell, my computer has 12 Gb ram (2 tripple channel kits) an i7 processor, 2 nvidia GTS 250 graphics cards, 2 tb or harddrive space, and a very nice optical drive, with a 23" hd monitor and two 17" monitors, and all that cost me only 1,400 bucks on black friday last year (including the very nice case and 1000 watt psu).
So yea, I'm driving the affordable mustang, and you paid 5 times what I paid for the same thing, expect your windshield is painted black. we can debate usability all day, but in the end it is preference. I prefer to get things done fast, regardless of the OS, you prefer apple, no matter what. That won't be concluded. But at least we now quantitatively know that an Apple computer costs more than a dell with the exact same internals. And Dell is overpriced to start, so a Windows computer is more worth the money, for the hardware at least. whatever OS you put on it is irrelevant, you buy something from apple, it is overpriced (unless you think OS X is worth 2848 dollars more than windows, in which case this debate is done because your a spoiled rich bitch and need to stop demanding poor people waste their money as badly as you do).
I don't get paid anything. I have used several different types of MAC before, and have found them incredibly painstaking to do anything at all. Windows is so fast its crazy, I honestly love it. Rarely is there anything at all I can't do with ease at windows, and thats such strange stuff I doubt people would see it on a regular basis.
I honestly can't even imagine how anyone could say any Mac has a user-friendly interface, it is such a pain in the ass to navigate and use, it is cumbersome and slow and I can never do anything fast on them. And this isn't advertising, I am complaining about how much Macs suck. If you need to switch between applications quickly, or operating in multiple applications at once, you might as well be scratching calculations onto a rock with a chisel. That, was personal evaluation to a point, it still requires some extra time and effort over windows in multi-application usage.
I believe Apple to be evil because they support cencorship and are abusing their consumer base to control and guide culture. That is pretty much in line with any evil organization in history. To say such behavior is acceptable is only a step below asking the police to enforce culture. Yes, it is partially my belief, but no more my belief than that hitler was evil, mao was evil, stalin was evil, just because they don't kill people doesn't mean they don't destroy culture. And culture is a long term product of humanity, not easily rebuilt after being destroyed, but people can easily just get by without it ie. dark ages.
expert in usability?? sure, if you use 1 application, all the time, never leave it, use it fullscreen, and don't need to do anything outside of that application it is wonderful. But anyone doing real work? bullshit.
should buying decisions of a school district be based on corporate conduct? partially, because whatever they buy is essentially purchased by tax dollars, and it is not in the best interest of the people to fund a company working against culture. but that is not what I said, ever. I said learning windows is more useful in life, business, and everywhere else in life, except for artists, and it is the job of people who spend tax dollars on to get as much as they can per dollar spent, and no apple product fulfills that.
When you can get the same products with an operating system that is far more useful for students learning to join the corporate world, or be able to run more custom programs, more software, and run on more harware and be repaired easier for a fraction of the price, why the fuck would you waste millions of taxpayer dollars paying double what you need to for something that most people consider to be a lot worse than the competition? Even if a few Apple-heads love it, that doesn't mean the other 80-90% of us do to. You think it is right to burn away taxpayer dollars just to support a company that is using every dollar they have to support culture control programs, especially when the product is the same thing (if not worse) for a lot higher price? what are you, on drugs?
When so many of us are struggling just to get by, you want to go and waste our hard earned money on marked up shit? Dollar for dollar, a windows system goes further per dollar. Spending twice as many tax dollars as is necessary is absolutely sickening, if not outright stupid. You can subjectively argue that apple products are better, but just like my opinion, yours too is just an opinion. And your opinion is not worth doubling the cost of providing a good quality learning environment to our children.
Also, are you fucking serious? paying me? I WISH. I just happen to love windows. I have tons of software, and I customize my interface for extremely improved productivity. Between my 3 large monitors I can be running 6 or 7 different programs, putting information and functionality into at my figertips, running between programs and letting my thoughts flow freely into matlab, inventor, excel, system monitoring tools, skype, windows folders, and the internet, getting things don
no, I wrote it at 5 in the morning, and was practically falling asleep. But I really should get that voice recognition stuff back up and running.
Actually, the laptop has run perfectly for two years now, without issue. My ex-girlfriend has a macbook that has broken 4 times in the past 8 months. The Macbooks at my old school broke down constantly, but the dells the school had were always running well and happy. Plus, when my computer, or the schools, broke down, it was easy enough to fix, no sending it off the nazi headquarters so that they can peer into the depths of your files and do other evil things.
And I didn't buy it at walmart, I bought it at best buy. I didn't prove your point either, you just made an assumption and claimed it true. Macs are just not worth it, hell, its not even worth it if its free, because several versions of linux are better. Like I know tons of mac fans, even one of my cousins, but I can't understand why when they are always complaining about not being able to run this program, or when they break down and they ask me to fix it, and I can't even get to the proper tools within the OS to fix it. It is just terrible. I really don't know why you think they make quality products, I mean, pretty much everyone I know has been through at least four or five iPods, one person even saw three break in a month, just being in their pocket. Hell, I have had a palm T/X for about 5 years now without issue, and a friend of mine had some dell handheld for 6 years and it still works great. I have never seen an apple product last for more than a year without needing to be fixed. Seriously, their operating system is hampering productivity, their hardware is drastically overpriced. The reasons to avoid it far outpace the reasons to like it, unless of course you have so much money that you don't mind burning it, and using it to wipe your ass.
Well, there are tons of ways to attract large streams of users, but I think you are write hear. From what I have seen, most porn sites infected with maleware are literally stealing the porn from other sites, none of it is original, and you can never actually reach good porn, just links to porn that link to virii.
To be honest, it sounds to me like the porn industry hates those bastards as much as we do.
Also, having a stream of users that is not in a clear state of mind, frantically looking for something good to get off on, so they are really not as likely check the credentials of the site or think at all before clicking on something. It probably makes them easier to manipulate, and therefore easier to hack.
It will still require the students know something about file types and formats. and that does not absolve any of the other problems.
So you want to spend tax dollars to deepen the lock-in? You can't be for real.
No, but I also don't want to be subsidizing shit, especially when it comes to something as important as our children's education. Right now, Windows is the best tool to accomplish that.
You may have noticed this discussion is not about iPhone, iPad nor iPods. So your argument is what, exactly?
What do you mean what is my argument? Would you have purchased exports and endorsed the Nazi party in Germany just because they made good quality, fast moving tanks? Would you stand by evil, because you love all of their products, but most specifically their smallest areas of sales? Not if you had half a brain. If you align perfectly with republicans, but a democrat has a cool pin that you like, do you switch parties? Not if you have a grain of sense. A company whose primary goal is to ilk profit by selling products with built in evil (drm, mandatory use of their stores and nobody else's for apps, oh, and now exclusive advertising agreements, not to mention pushing their morals onto the products users by censoring what the devices can view/do). Are you really going to support a company that uses censorship with taxpayer dollars? and you think me mad.
Impossible. By pure math, if a competing product is available for free (Linux, *BSD, etc.) then you can not beat it in any "per dollar" comparison.
... where can I get one of these free laptops? I don't hate free software, but I think it is important we have them get what is most useful to them. I did not, ever, say linux was cheaper somehow than windows. I just compared their relative usefulness. My comparison was Apple to Win7. In terms of this, Apple will never even come close to value per dollar price. Not even remotely close, and NOTHING any current Apple product can do even comes close to filling in the terrible lack of utility. The Apple OS is ugly, it can not be significantly altered for user enjoyment, and is much harder to learn than windows. I learned how to use a windows computer in about 5 minutes, and I can use thousands of alternate set up types and arrangements for my specific utility. After spending hours playing with Macs, I find thier customization sucks, many important features are difficult to access or find, and the user dynamics will never compare to the quickness of the win7 feel. I can be using several dozen large programs at once, switching between them and moving files in a fraction of a second, with insane productivity levels. Even word processing while looking at data on a web page is difficult and time consumer (as in a second or two) It is incredibly frustrating, even with practice, and it is a pain in the ass. In terms of this, any computer with any Apple OS on it is worth its weight in shit compared to one with win7. Even on their popular handheld devices, the OS may be great for its use, but as long as it is crippled by Apples intense control over everything that hits your screen is downright damning to its value.
You are funny. My wonderful little reality is both wonderful and very real. And gaming is the only use I have left for windos. If Steam continues to add good games, not much longer.
I use my windows computer for everything from web browing, simulation programming and design, virtual prototyping, mathematical modeling, word processing, gaming, communication, finding my way around the countries roads, learning, and anything else I want to do with it. I have yet to find anything that I can't do on my computer that a Mac can, but many things that are much more difficult and crappy on an apple product. Yes, I can think of many improvements that could be made, but Apple has a hell of a long way to go to catch up to the productivity and functionality of windows.
So you want to teach kids computer skills on a non/standard operating system, and allow them to turn in papers with dozens of different incompatible file types.
Windows may have the majority of the market, but it is good. If all of the papers that need to be written have the same functionality as the MS Office series, and operate in the same file formats, no problem, as long as they all work on the same network. Also, not a whole lot of high school students have the technical ability to maintain a linux system. However, I would support a linux laptop requirement far more than I would support a mac series.
Plus, at least microsoft only has a monopoly on the OS, which can be customized and adapted to fit a large variety of needs, unlike Mac, and it runs more programs better than Mac or Linux. Apple uses its OS to create a monopoly on the culture of its users, regulating how and where they get their programs (at least for the iPhone, iPad, and iPods). As for functionality per dollar? Windows is the best value for the dollar. Plus, windows is often illegal, so the OS itself can be free sometimes. I know my old school system had a trial version with activation frozen with some custom features installed, considering how cheap they were with technology, it wasn't above them, took a lot of digging to figure out too.
Sadly, your wonderful little reality is very impractical, the compatibility is just not there.
Censorship on some of their products. They have tried actively to control culture just like 'the man' they were fighting in their commercial in 1984 superbowl.
Also, I might add that apples hardware is pretty much set in stone. No upgradability without crippling the OS, or paying Apples insanely inflated prices. My home built epic-computer can be upgraded whenever I want, in any number of different ways. it is flexible and wonderful, and I don't have to buy a new one just to meet the demands of one newfangled program, until the system is too old to do anything.
I bought a 2.66 ghz core 2 duo with 2 gb ram, and gigabit ethernet with Win7. Do you know how much it cost me? 399.99. It runs like a beauty and has been wonderful, running what I need with ease and finess. I don't know where you buy laptops, but you paid way too much. I have never seen an Apple product that was reasonably priced, but you can get a much cheaper machine with windows installed, assuming you aren't buying insanely expensive gold plated brands.
And are you really going to sacrafice every other program at a school just for the art program? Most schools don't have the absolute top software anyways, there are amazing alternatives that run very well on windows, especially with its significantly better resource management. Just because Macs are based on unix doesn't mean they are really actually useful for studying GNU tools, especially for beginner programming classes. And to be honest, most people and corporations use windows, so wouldn't programmers be better equipped learning the industry standard? You can hate windows all you want, but it is more versatile than any Apple operating system. Linux might be approaching the same quality level, but until it has fully caught up, it won't catch on. Lets be realistic hear.