Slashdot Mirror
Verizon Makes Offering Service Blocks a Fireable Offense
Presto Vivace sends in a report from David Pogue at the New York Times, who learned from a Verizon customer service representative that the company has implemented a policy of punishing employees who suggest certain service blocks to customers looking to avoid unwanted or accidental fees. According to the representative, offering (for example) a web access block or premium SMS block without the customer asking for it can now lead to a reprimand or outright termination. The CSRs have also been directed to avoid issuing credits for such charges. "Essentially, we are to upsell customers on the $9.99 25mb/month or $29.99 unlimited packages for customers. Customers are not to be credited for charges unless they ask for the credit. And in cases such as data or premium SMS, where the occurrences may have gone months without the consumer noticing, only an initial credit can be issued."
Is this really such a surprise?
Thank you Evo.
-J
Customer Service: We're not happy until you're not happy.
Phone companies are assholes.
Film at 11.
It is very likely the customer service representatives who are offering those service blocks to better accommodate those customers are the better representatives who are actually trying to do a good job. And people wonder why customer service for some companies is so horrible, it is because of policies like this.
God the people who signed up for these things were idiots. We were walked through the sign up process and it was clear that you would be charged on about 10 different screens. The worst were the people who went months even years before noticing the charges and wanted them all refunded. Every one of them claimed they were never notified about the charges but we could look though the history on the account and could see the messages that were sent and they all ended with something to the effect of '9.99 a mo. reply STOP to end messages and disable acct.' Alas they would let it go on for months and yell at me for their stupidity.
Each phone you buy is so loaded with shit that anyone who tries to run all programs or options on their phone will ring up a hefty bill without realizing it.
T-mobile, say what you will about its coverage. But it has excellent customer service. They voluntarily suggested these blocks, and they have lower rate plans for people out of contract who don't need subsidized phones. As the market is saturated, most people who want cell phones got them. Those who don't need/want premium service are happy with their two or three year old phones. T-mobile, and others who are offering lower rate plans without phone subsidies are going to retain these customers. And the nickle and dimers like AT&T and Verizon would find it difficult to peel off customers from them.
Bank of America was originally Bank of Italy, you dumb fuck...
In other news: How to tell you're dealing with a company that does not feel it has to do anything to retain its customers
This is nothing new, this is what happens when the CSR tries to "do the right thing" and the management has no qualms about making money from overbilling.
Yea, I made seventeen phone calls in to the four departments to get a DSL dry loop line. You have to get really aggressive to get anything done. There ARE some service saints in there somewhere, so when you get one, get their ID number or sometimes first and last name and then ask for them.
Re your last line, I AM willingly a (disgusted) customer because I think Comcast is worse! Last I recalled on the Evil front, Verizon was SLIGHTLY less evil.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
In my experience, this won't make any difference. They don't tell you about data/web blocks anyways. I happened to read a mention of that concept on /. shortly before getting my most recent phone. So I asked and got that without a problem. Yay.
Though I suppose the noteworthy bit here is to assume that there's hidden money to be had/saved when dissatisfied. Because ya, they don't tell you.
I'm pretty sure phones are designed to be one button away from a multiple dollar data fee if you don't have a data plan. Every phone I owned would happily connect to some webpage owned by the cell phone company and proceed to download 200-300k before you could figure out you hit the wrong button. Moreover, some of them have flat out refused to stop downloading the page until it's done, meaning that you just got dinged a megabyte on your ten cents per kilobyte lack of data plan.
Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
Not that I believe AT&T has no problems, because it absolutely does. But I figure I use my iPhone more for data services than phone calls anyway and that's one of AT&T's strong areas. But at least I'm not giving my money to Verizon no matter how good their coverage is -- they're basically jackasses.
Gotta get me one of these!
being on GSM allows me to choose my carrier without having to buy a new phone.
If you are in the United States, and you use mobile data, switching GSM carriers means all you'll get is EDGE. AT&T phones don't work on T-Mobile's UMTS band, nor vice versa. Besides, among the four major U.S. carriers, only T-Mobile gives the customer any discount on the "SIM-only" plan for buying or bringing a phone as opposed to subsidizing one.
Ideally, CDMA2000 should make switching just as easy as GSM/UMTS, with a removable CSIM that you can put in your existing CDMA2000 phone. But CSIM hasn't been implemented by U.S. carriers, possibly due to different bands.
If Verizon doesn't want to sell these options to customers why are they even offering them? Why not just withdraw these options for new customers and only include them for people grandfathered in and already have them? What am I missing here?
We seriously need a federal regulation making blocking of excessive fees ($5,000 increase in phone bill due to teenage txting) automatic. Allow the user to put a definable cap on their bill which requires a phone call to the telco to exceed. "I never want to pay more than $300 on my bill." It would cut off all but emergency service and calls to the telco itself if it hit the cap. It could even cut off all but voice service as the cap was approached.
Verizon does allow users to turn on and off various blocking services on their website, but more people don't care enough to even make that much of a decision.
They All Suck. Every wireless provider has issus with either customer service or with phone/data service. They always have and always will. They've oversold their capacity by God know how much, and customer service is poor at all of them. You personally may have a good experience with your phone and with their customer service, but for everyone who has had a nice, pleasant experience, I'm guessing there are are at least 4-5 others whose story with the same provider would be very different. This is all part of what I call The Greed Creed.... All of these companies PRIMARY goal is to make money. Their secondary goal is to provide a product or a service. As long as these goals are reversed, we will continue to be plagued with these kinds of problems. I'm not opposed to business making lots of money, but I am opposed if they do so at the expense of everything else. I believe it would be very easy for businesses to make even more money than they do now, but for the short term, investment in infastructuer and customer service would make them look unprofitable in the short term.
Now, Verizon can be fined.
... I see, it's kinda like insurance companies "cheat the customers as much as possible, or YOUR FIRED" yea, same old profit maximizing bullshit. Someday companies will actually give a shit about providing good services and having happy, loyal employees and customers. Someday.
Where is the mod rating for "scary"? Also,
Account -> Plan -> Set Usage Controls -> Add/Remove Blocks
I've got 16 years of Customer Service experience, I can tell you right now, Verizon is not doing customer service at all, more of a disservice than anything.
Michael
http://s1.sfgame.us/index.php?rec=58163
Thing is, CSR jobs have more turnover than McDonalds. You can get their name, ID, or extension number, but they probably won't be there in 6 months when your next problem occurs.
The source claims that they can be fired if they suggest data blocks unless a customer specifically asks for them.
Verizon's defense was that no employee would be fired for adding a data block if a customer specifically asked for one.
What's really disturbing is that the reporter actually accepted this as a valid defense. Their answer covers when a customer specifically asks for a block, the firing in question occurs when a customer does not.
How specifically do the customers have to ask? Is asking for them to stop these ridiculous charges enough, or do you have to ask for a data block specifically? Would you still have to request download blocking, Vcast blocking, etc. by name?
They designed the phone interface to maximize the frequency of these charges, I'm pretty sure they make stopping them as difficult as possible. As far as companies go, Verizon is among the lowest of the low.
This sentence no verb.
Suppose you could identify the customers who you didn't really want to keep? The ones that TRY to optimize their usage of your plans to THEIR benefit?
And the ones who call into your support lines driving up YOUR support line costs?
Everyone else is a "good" customer who takes what you provide and pays the price you demand.
So yeah, it makes sense at the corporate "fuck the customer" level to fire employees who not only aren't trying to "fuck the customer" but are trying to HELP the customer optimize the CUSTOMER'S usage of your plans.
This year's executive bonuses have to come from some place, it does however tell something about their overall financial health.
Dear Verizon:
Please consider the possibility that it is not in your best interest to treat your customers like shit.
You have stolen money from me by charging my credit card even after I cancelled my service. You have wasted a considerable amount of my time as I waited on the phone just to talk to someone who essentially told me "Yes, we stole your money and there's nothing you can do about it".
It's not a good idea to put your customers in this type of position. It will cause them to seek more creative ways of exacting satisfaction from you. Perhaps they will post to online message boards about how much you suck. Maybe they will get their friends and family to cancel their service. Maybe they'll request their representatives and regulators to pass laws to force you to behave in a reasonable manner. There's even the risk that
some of your more pissed off customers will resort to "performance art" involving verizon properties and advertising.
It's up to you.
I was given the task of overseeing our company's 102 user Verizon phone bill each month back in Oct. 09. Each month I downloaded the new bill Verizon they put up in an XML format and I threw it into my database. I reduced the bill from about $6000 to $5000 in simple waste and no reduction in service - I could easily drop another $750 with minimal impact affecting only the abusers. Anyways, I noticed in April Verizon started to charge about 60% of the users with a new $1.99 for 1MB usage charge. Now I've seen this 1MB usage charge before, but it was always with one of our users that downloaded a ringtone or had access to the mobile web - it was always attached to something they did. When I called Verizon and spoke with their CSR I asked what the 1MB charge and have they changed anything because there were all these new $1.99 fees. I was told there had been no changes and when I gave them specific examples of users with these fees they said it was for this or that. I had at this point almost 6 months of data and I gave counter-examples for each explanation of what these new 1MB charges were for.
The rep was quickly overwhelmed by my examples and they said they would escalate my case to a tier 2 technical representative. Days go by and I finally get the explanation that the 1MB was for connecting to Verizon's Mobile Web - which was total crap because it's blocked and you can't actually connect. When I asked for clarification they said it was for "trying to connect" even though it is blocked on our plan. I was not satisfied because we went from 2 explainable $1.99 1MB charges a month up to 60+ the next and so the representative requested all of my examples. Two weeks go by and I start to get complaints from our users that they can't text even though they personally pay for text plans. I found out that all of my examples were given full data blocks by the CSR. I had to call and make them reverse all their unauthorized changes but we are still up about $120 each month due to these new charges. It pisses me off to no end and I requested to personally meet with our Verizon rep but that was denied by management and I was told to just let the $120/mo go.
Very true. As a CSR your treated like shit by the customer because of restrictive policies that keep you from doing a good job and your treated like shit by the management because you are so easily replaced they don't have to care.
My usual line when it comes to Phone reps is that 20% will be fired within 3 months because they just got the job for the 6 weeks or so of paid training (I knew someone who decided to quit by just putting his headset on the table and reading a book, still in the phone queue, lasted a month before they found out his calls were just dead air) 70% are doing their jobs just to the letter and don't give a shit about you or the job their doing and 10% actually care and try to do what's best for you. That 10% usually quit after 6 months to a year from stress and disillusionment.
I work for Fido Wireless now. Our website actually gives you the steps and walks your through them for a complaint escalation all the way up to the ombudsman. I can, without fear of reprecusions advise customers exactly how to get what they need. I also don't work the phones anymore.
Verizon has to figure out some way to convince Apple that is it evil enough to deserve the iPhone...I'm guessing it went down something like this.
"I mean come on those things are cool, we want to sell them too...we can treat customers just as poorly as AT&T...watch this!!!"
I'm being followed by about a hundred people, all wearing Verizon network uniforms, and they're all sending me text messages.
Please block my SMS.
THX
--
Toro
Verizon signed my dementia addled father up for not one but two long term wireless contracts. Luckily (not really) he brought me in to deal with it before the FCC 30 day termination deadline. First they didn't mail promised phone return labels. After many calls later and the phones were returned and the account payed off. Then, boom, a month later they sent a bill for early termination fees. It seems that my father had called them to see if they would release a previously ported phone number back to the original carrier (he decided he was too old not to have a landline). Well it seems some helpful associate/technician trying to help my pathetic dad get his number back triggered early termination penalities and this was found later in some beancounter audit (happened past 30 days FCC deadline). Incredibly, trying to get the early termination fees re-removed from the account was denied. Even when the employees try their best to help you, the Verizon faceless machine Corporation will screw you.
when you have to request plan yz12zz32/45-32. How could you be so ignorant. ANd if you happen to request x12yz23 on Friday, it actually doubles the rates, except in alternate leap years, or when Jupiter is in conjunction with Uranus.
No, the 10% get fired when their bosses find out that they're trying to help the customers.
I was in that ten percent. Got a job with a sub-contractor for VZW (it was ABSOLUTELY verboten to tell ANYBODY that I wasn't working directly for Verizon Wireless) and got fired the last day of training/protected shift. Frankly, I'm glad I got fired, though I would have rather made the choice myself and quit; the atmosphere was just that... oppressive.
When I worked for the sub just a few months ago, it was generally frowned upon to offer credits or offer to place blocks on services. I offered to place blocks anyway, though because I -- unlike Verizon -- cared enough about the customer to offer the best services for what their situation was, knowing full well that Verizon was in no realistic way, losing money. Perhaps a few dollars here and there, but not in long-term customer satisfaction. Silly me. I figured businesses would *want* long-term customers, but now that I think about it, I guess just raping people with nigh-unbreakable contracts is good enough for them.
Anyway, color me unsurprised to hear that Verizon would have made something like improved customer service a fireable offense.
They just disempowered their own customer service reps. Now the reps cannot assist their clients in finding the plan that best meets the client's needs.
I guess places that have lots of local monopolies can get away with that sort of thing.
And why the Verizon spokeswoman denies all these charges is that the outsourced call center that actually deals with this (and who consequently gets a kickback for every sale - including upsells) realized that agents who proactively block data for customers weren't making any money for the outsourcing company.
Having worked on these kinds of contracts it wouldn't surprise me if that was what was happening - and without Verizon even knowing - they may even be powerless to change it.
Its still a pretty scammy practice.
Verizon is intentionally making it difficult for customers to avoid paying fees they don't want to pay. This is not the first time they've been caught with their hands in this particular cookie jar.
Verizon should be subjected to a serious probe on this matter, they should be forced to pay major damages for all their fraudulent charges, the people that wrote these policies should face a criminal investigation, and Verizon should not be allowed to accept new customers until they fix their illegal business practices.
Haha, just kidding, that would only happen in a universe that is actually fair.
if most people leave for "customer service"... well... our execs still haven't decided what to do about that one
Customer service representatives should log cases where the rep fails to provide service due to a company policy that surprises the customer. Then when customers cancel for "customer service", find the policies that the most customers failed to understand or anticipate, and see if one can be dropped without costing the company too much.
There are definite mathematical limits on how much a single handset can use a network in a given month. A single cell non-malfunctioning cell phone can only use at most one or two channels on at most two or three towers (due to handover). I do not believe for a second that this much infrastructure actually costs $30,000/mo to maintain, yet the carriers have no trouble charging people $30,000 or more if they overuse services. Suspiciously, in most cases these insane overage charges could have been reduced or eliminated by switching to a slightly more expensive monthly plan.
The fact is that service and overage charges are ridiculous, and the prices charged have no relation to the cost of service. THIS is the problem that actually needs to be fixed, IMNSHO.
I know people gripe about every large company, but Verizon has provided very good service to us. Regarding this issue, we received 2 unsolicited premium SMS messages for $10 each. We called them, and Verizon refunded the charges and suggested blocking premium SMS (which we did).
It was a little while ago, as a said, but I seem to remember learning that there was a legal issue involved -- either a lawsuit or FCC investigation. Also, Verizon has a FAQ that explains premium SMS well:
http://support.vzw.com/faqs/Premium_TXT_and_MMS/faq_premium_txt_and_mms.html
You failed Business 101. A Business wants money. Customers HAVE money. Businesses without customers GET NO money. Businesses without shareholders but with customers get money. Businesses without executives but with customers get money.
When it comes down to it the ranking of the business priorities ARE
1) Customers. Without one of these, you have no business
2) Front-line workers. Without these, you have no product to give to a customer for money and you have no business
3) Management. Without any management, you can run a business but you may be inefficient and lose customers
4) Owners. These are the people who want the money
The reason why this isn't the case is because CEOs and investors are now in it for the short-term gain. They don't care if the company has customers because they weren't there when the company started, so only pick companies with money. They don't care if the company loses customers because they'll sell off the assets and kill the company, moving on to another one to leech off.
I worked for T-Mobile technical care (tseW) and there, we were instructed to tell the customer that we were "incapable" of blocking all those things even if they ASK for it!!!
Looking at Fido's escalation process, 'Step 2' is where it fails all the time. The last time I had a problem that customer service couldn't resolve, I asked to speak to a manager, wherein the rep replied that all the managers were in a meeting and no one could take my call. Every single one. At the same time. And no one could field problems. Took my number down and said a manager would call me in 24 hours. When no one did, I called back, and once again I got the same line that every manager was in a meeting and no one could take my call. That time I insisted, and my rep managed to grab a manager who was 'walking by'. Yeah right.
I've met your twin. Customer service was incapable of doing anything more than running through their meaningless checklist, and were completely stymied when I informed them that I didn't have a Windows computer in the house. I finally got hold of a guy who was able to ask pertinent questions, and fix my lack of DSL. I wrote his name down, and I always ask for him when I have any reason to call.
Funny thing is, he isn't customer service anymore. He's been promoted to a a manager's position.
I'll give credit where credit is due though. Today, my DSL provider has something there for the reps. If you call in, tell them that you have a Mac or a *nix box, they turn their little pages to the chapter titled "Mac users" or "Linux users". The support still isn't much, but at least they know how to "escalate" a problem.
Parenthetically - WTF is it with escalating a problem? I want a problem SOLVED, not escalated. I'm not fighting a band of rebels in the jungle, and I don't need artillery called in, with an airstrike. I just want the damned server rebooted, or the networking services on the router restarted, no escalations please.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
Because User-Hostile saves money in duopoly environments.
It's a pyramid thing. Just suppose there's 100 level 1's, 10 level 2's and 1 level3 in a group. If they can keep the call in that first tier, they win. They only start to wake up when you high-speed drill out 7 answers per question they ask followed by asking for a manager at every interchange.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Weak reporting, he should have grilled her more:
But would Verizon Wireless actually fire an employee for failing to upsell you? Ms. Raney is pretty emphatic on this point: "A representative would not be terminated or reprimanded for putting a data block on an account if that's what the customer requested..."
She didn't speak to the heart of the matter. Whistle-blower noted that CSRs can get fired for suggesting a block to the customer. She doesn't dispute that...
customer service is such a horrendous idea. Customer service was MUCH better when the workers had the protection of a union contract. At least in my personal experience.
Are customer services organized by sadists ?
Non-Linux Penguins ?
Didn't they say unlimited data wouldn't be feasible when 4G rolls out? If so, why try to sell a product which they plan on neutering?
Verizon signed my dementia addled father for not one but two long term wireless contracts. Luckily (not really) he brought me in to deal with it before the FCC 30 day termination deadline. First they didn't mail promised phone return labels. After many calls later and the phones were returned and the account payed off. Then, boom, a month later they sent a bill for early termination fees. It seems that my father had called them to see if they would release a previously ported phone number back to the original carrier (he decided he was too old not to have a landline). Well it seems some helpful associate/technician trying to help my pathetic dad get his number back triggered early termination penalties and this was found later in some beancounter audit. The person he talked to did not indicate he would have to pay ~$200 to get his number back. Incredibly, trying to get the early termination fees re-removed from the account was denied. Even when the employees try their best to help you, the Verizon faceless machine Corporation will screw you.
Very true. As a CSR your treated like shit by the customer because of restrictive policies that keep you from doing a good job and your treated like shit by the management because you are so easily replaced they don't have to care.
When I worked for Orange I found that some customers are just dicks and that's that. Even when the policies are quite reasonable and made clear beforehand some people will simply bitch because they can't have exactly what they want. For example, I had a gentleman who wanted an upgrade in his second month. Go fish...
On the other hand there was a customer with a Mac and their own sim-free handset who wanted to tether. It said explicitly in the contract that the network wouldn't support anything we didn't sell but we were quite happy to research the issue and get them up and running. Incidentally, this was before 2.5G became available and Bluetooth was still on the drawing board.
Granted, many staff are just there to work their shift and go home but there are those who like to be challenged in their work. The trick is not to promise anything the company isn't obligated to deliver and make this very clear at the outset.
If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
Looking out for the customer's best interest in terms of the services that the business offers is in the best interest of the business.
Quite. Bean counters don't see this. They don't see the customers walking away...
I happen to be a Certified bean counter and you couldn't possibly be more wrong. If you ever want to understand what is going on in a company, ask the accountants. They know exactly how many customers have walked away, how much money those customers were worth, how expensive those customers were to service, etc. Most of the time they even know exactly why those customers left. If you want to know where the bodies are buried (so to speak) in a company, ask the accountants. But knowledge is not control and blaming the "bean counters" really is a case of shooting the messenger. The finance and accounting geeks just provide analysis and reporting in most cases. They don't control the purse strings.
Accountants are perfectly well aware of the value of good customer service. Accountants however (usually) don't control what gets funding and what doesn't and they certainly don't control how customer service is managed. An accountant's job is to present accurate financial information to management. Ultimately it is management's choice to provide (or not provide) good quality customer service. If you want to blame anyone for bad customer service, the blame starts right at the top where it belongs.
Shaft your customers enough and they'll switch to a different company.
True but only if they are actually able to switch. Where I live there is one gas company and one electric company. If I want those services I do not have any other realistic options. The only thing stopping them from treating me really badly is that they are heavily regulated and as a result I've actually gotten decent service most of the time. It's only been recently that I've had more than one option for internet/phone service and both are huge former monopolies with deservedly bad reputations for customer service. Switching from one to the other really doesn't improve my situation any because both of them pretty much suck. I'm about to move and my options for internet service are Comcast and Verizon. Not exactly a pair that I'm thrilled to do business with but there simply are no other options.
Both my father and grandfather used to work for AT&T before and after the big split. They explained the attitude of AT&T by the running cynical joke among the employees of "my phone still works". The company simply didn't have to care because you had no other options and they knew it.
Shaft your customers enough and they'll switch to a different company.
/me Proceeds to sell all his stock in porn companies.
Shai Schticks:"You don't make peace with friends, you make peace with enemies"
Weak reporting, he should have grilled her more:
But would Verizon Wireless actually fire an employee for failing to upsell you? Ms. Raney is pretty emphatic on this point: "A representative would not be terminated or reprimanded for putting a data block on an account if that's what the customer requested..."
She didn't speak to the heart of the matter. Whistle-blower noted that CSRs can get fired for suggesting a block to the customer. She doesn't dispute that...
Its the bean-counters' fault.
I am a certified accountant. The fault, if there is any, lies at the feet of management. The bean counters simply track the data and report it. Presuming the data provided is accurate it is up to management make decisions with that data and to see the big picture. It is also management's job to understand the Blaming badly chosen metrics on the accountants is shooting the messenger.
Revenue losses from service blocks and credits are really easy to measure.
Not always as easy as you are implying. Lost revenue generally requires a bit of guesswork even for predictable revenue streams. It's always inexact to measure something that is not there. You have to be careful to avoid the same logic that presumes that someone pirating a music CD would have bought it anyway.
Profits from customers made happy by good customer service are really hard to measure.
Actually it's not as hard as you seem to think. The problem isn't that it can't be measured but rather that the bottom line effects of customer service do not appear immediately on the balance sheet. There are plenty of metric available to track success attributable to customer service. Indirect measures usually but effective ones. The problem is that when times are tough customer service a relatively easy thing to cut because customer service doesn't immediately impact the bottom line in most cases. R&D and marketing have the same problem. Their effects are measurable but only appear over time and with consistent cumulative expenditures.
So, as is frequently the case when organizations become hyper-focused on metrics, decisions get made that maximize metrics but don't make good business sense.
You are making a logical fallacy and I don't think you really understand how metrics are used. EVERY business has to choose metrics to judge their success and ignoring the metrics is a sure route to failure. You cannot improve anything that you cannot measure and you have to measure the right things (which isn't as easy as it sounds). Metrics need to be carefully chosen because they will drive behavior but choosing bad metrics does not mean metrics are bad.
Having worked in escalations for a big software company I think the problem is the only people who know what they are doing are few and far between and are usually paid more, so they try to limit access because its so expensive to escalate anything. The turn-over can be kinda high too because many managers look at Tier 3 agents and see that they only worked on like 5 cases that week (never mind it took hours and hours working with engineering on a single case sort of cases) and figure they are just sitting there watching youtube all day.
there are many other companies out there, who will gladly help the customer first and the bottom line second - well, ok at least a few.
there are even prepaid companies who will cut your bill in half, giving you better service, more minutes, and the very same network of cell towers as you get on verizon. some even allow you to bring your current VZ phone. i wont plug any particular one - thats not what im trying to do here - i just want people to know that there are alternatives
During my couple of years in hell (telephone CSR for a big online discount travel site) we weren't allowed to put managers on the phone - ever. When someone asked, the answer was: "I'm sorry, but our supervisors are here for administrative purposes only. I can transfer your call to a customer service specialist, but they will advise you in the same way that I have." Apparently if a manager tells a customer something, it's more binding legally - hence why supervisors and managers were not identified as such on the phone.
Spekkio Master of War
I only had to make 3 phone calls for dry loop DSL service--at least, to get signed up, sent equipment, and told that the service had been "turned on" and I was ready to go.
Of course, it didn't work, and 14 calls, 5 departments, at least 3 call centers (or possibly two call centers and an office), and over 3 weeks later, I found out that they had no free ports in the DSLAM--they were waiting for someone to cancel service to plug me in. They had already charged me for activation, equipment deposit, and the first month of service, and it took numerous phone calls to get each of these refunded, which had to be done individually.
Funny thing was, at the end, they said they'd send me a UPS label to use to return the modem, after which they'd refund the $15 equipment deposit. Then they credited my account that $15, before I'd even received the shipping label. I ended up selling the modem on Craigslist for $10.
Since the federal courts ruled that corporations are in essence people, prehaps it's time for uncle sam and his laywers to start enforcing the laws on them. Granted i can see why Verizon would want their CSRs to do such a thing, but in a bigger picture it's probally a worthwile investment for uncle sam to start looking over cell phone providers billing plans, and extra fees charges and caps. I'm sure they could easily find malicious intent in the bigger picture. Of course as i was reading somewhere else, its not so much a case of seperation of church and state anymore, but we need a seperation of corporations and state....
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1681772&cid=32556164
APK
Everyone offers unlimited texting at very reasonable costs. On verizon unlimited text and voice is $150.
You have a very curious definition of "reasonable". The messages are tiny but if you extrapolate the cost on a per megabyte basis the wireless telecoms are charging $1310 per megabyte to use spare bandwidth. That is not even remotely "reasonable" in my opinion.
If the family can' afford it, then don't have cell phones.
The fact that I am able to pay several dollars a month for text messaging does not make it any less of a rip off. Texting costs the telecoms essentially nothing. It uses spare bandwidth that would otherwise be wasted. It literally costs the telecoms close to nothing. I am actually quite disappointed there hasn't been a collusion investigation over this. It's not as if text messages are a differentiated product. The telecoms should be competing strictly on price with text messaging services and yet somehow they aren't.
There are many reasons I'm a *former* Verizon customer. I got fed up with them. Granted, I don't completely rule out the possibility that, if Verizon broke any laws (which isn't really entirely clear-cut to me here), the government should enforce the laws, but this looks like it is basically a customer service issue. Customers should learn how egregious Verizon is, and stop doing business with them. I did, and I'm quite happy.
Verizon is NOT a monopoly. There are other cell phone providers. Do business with one who will treat you better. I'm pretty happy with T-Mobile, myself, but even if you don't like T-Mo, there's about 6-8 other options I can think of (and in some markets, perhaps more options).
I think, too often, people here of a corporation behaving badly, and it seems like there first reaction is "there oughta be a law", when my first reaction, if there are any other competitors, is to just stop doing business with a company who mis-treats me. It seems to be quite effective, most of the time.
The only time I ever think about Verizon anymore is when I see an article or news story on the Internet/TV/Radio, and I'm quite happy with that situation.
Free yourself from Verizon. Take control of your own life, don't look to the government to do it for you, because the government is basically controlled by those with money (like Verizon). If enough people just stop doing business with Verizon, Verizon will either change, or go out of business.
And in cases such as data or premium SMS, where the occurrences may have gone months without the consumer noticing, only an initial credit can be issued.
I'm not sure which legislative body was asleep at the switch, but AT&T does the same thing with billing mistakes. They can make mistakes in billing and charge you too much for months or even years. However when you bring up their mistake, by law they only have to credit you for the amount on the latest bill.
The above situation is one of the many situations that reenforces my belief that the government and corporations do not only not have the consumer's best interests in mind, they also aren't concerned about being held accountable. If I'm a contractor and I defraud a customer due to a "billing error", they can take me to court and sue my ass off. Yet Verizon, AT&T (and probably other telcos that I haven't had personal experience with) can defraud people for extended periods of time, and their liability is legally limited to the last billing cycle.
The Customer Service department is just like the Human Resources department. It is not there to help YOU but it is there to support THE COMPANY.
Parenthetically - WTF is it with escalating a problem? I want a problem SOLVED, not escalated. I'm not fighting a band of rebels in the jungle, and I don't need artillery called in, with an airstrike. I just want the damned server rebooted, or the networking services on the router restarted, no escalations please.
The mind boggles at how someone posting to Slashdot could not be familiar with a tiered support model.
Don't want to put words in Runaway1956's mouth, but I'm pretty sure he's angry more at the choice of the word "escalate" then the idea of tiered CS.
So in the end, pretty much a rhetorical question, since everyone knows that "escalate" sounds so much more professional then "I hate you, stop asking for a manager, I'm just going to pass you off to the stoned guy who thinks that DSL is the second generation of LSD."
And, you, sir, are right on target.
All our lives, we've read news articles about the fighting being "escalated" in some banana republic. The guys who decided to use that word in customer relations were almost certainly stoners - or worse, GAMERS!! ;^)
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
Don't want to put words in Runaway1956's mouth, but I'm pretty sure he's angry more at the choice of the word "escalate" then the idea of tiered CS.
And a more appropriate word for an increase in severity and complexity would be...?
No, the 10% get fired when their bosses find out that they're trying to help the customers.
Actually, 5% get fired. The other 5% get fucked over repeatedly by the company until they quit, which looks better on the books. Things like:
Reprimanded severely for "missing critical training" that was announced and took place during the person's (approved) vacation or during a medical emergency.
Shifts changed repeatedly (day to evening to graveyard and back) or made insane (a day of 12 hours, a day of 8, 2 days of 4, a day of 12).
Supervisor changed repeatedly without notice.
Security harassing a specific person several days in a row because their car was parked improperly (where 'improperly' is trivial stuff like being 2 inches off being perfectly parallel with the parking space lines, not stuff like taking up two spaces). Though I admit that could've just been the security guards being dicks.
(I knew someone who decided to quit by just putting his headset on the table and reading a book, still in the phone queue, lasted a month before they found out his calls were just dead air)
Did he get an award for his low call times before they realized? Where I worked we had someone who kept telling people to buy a new printer cable no matter what the problem with the printer was. Ink leaking out the bottom? New cable! Grinding noises? New cable! Windows says you need a driver? New cable! Kept her call times damn low, so much so that people were told to emulate her.
I was in that ten percent. Got a job with a sub-contractor for VZW (it was ABSOLUTELY verboten to tell ANYBODY that I wasn't working directly for Verizon Wireless)
Same for us with an HP subcontractor.
At least you were screwing Verizon over while you were screwing the customers. When I worked for an outsourced HP call center, our supervisors basically said to us "We get paid for number of phone calls we process for HP, not quality of service. Use every trick you can to get the person off the line. If they're on dialup, tell them to download something. If they're on highspeed, tell them to turn everything off for an hour and then call back. And if you can't get rid of them, hang up them, as long as you make it look accidental. But don't do that last one too much. "
Well, see, that's the thing, I don't want my problem to "increase in severity and complexity." I (speaking as the hypothetical customer on the phone) want my problem fixed. That's it. Not a more severe problem. Not a more complex problem. A fixed problem.
But to get back to the point....
I get the use of the word escalate, in the sense of moving upwards, but to me it also has the connotation of being worse, just from the way it's used in other parts of daily life. E.g. "The fighting in Iraq escalated today."
I don't actually know what the right word should be when the CSR says "I'm going to (blank) your call."
Just saying "I'm going to move your call up the ladder to a more qualified person" would be nice. It gives you the sense that (while) the person speaking can't help you, they may get you connected to someone who can. Not as pithy obviously, but (to me at least) sounds a lot more neutral and a tiny bit positive.
And if it wasn't for false hope, there would be any hope at all.
Well, see, that's the thing, I don't want my problem to "increase in severity and complexity." I (speaking as the hypothetical customer on the phone) want my problem fixed. That's it. Not a more severe problem. Not a more complex problem. A fixed problem.
You're missing the point. From your perspective, true, the problem hasn't changed at all. However, from the perspective of the tech support, it has. Ergo, they have to escalate it to someone who has the knowledge - or simply the necessary access privileges - to fix it.
Just saying "I'm going to move your call up the ladder to a more qualified person" would be nice. It gives you the sense that (while) the person speaking can't help you, they may get you connected to someone who can. Not as pithy obviously, but (to me at least) sounds a lot more neutral and a tiny bit positive.
That's exactly what "escalate" means in that context. It *is* a positive connotation - you're important enough that your issue is being prioritised higher and pushed up to someone more important and more capable. It's perfectly appropriate word usage, conveying the necessary meaning in a concise and descriptive fashion.
We have 2-3 major mobile networks, telstra - most coverage reasonable coverage in the bush, optus - good coverage except for out in the bush, and Vodafone which has ok coverage in most large towns but bugger all everywhere else.
Telstra don't let anyone piggyback as far as I know, Optus has quite a few piggybacking including Virgin mobile.
I recently upgraded my phone with Virgin.
I pay $35 a month ($29 plan with $6 300MB data plan), on a 2 year contract. My phone RRP was $696. I pay nothing for the phone. optus was offering the same phone for $49 plan.
I get $140 call credit, I get unlimited calls to other people on virgin mobiles including my wife.
If I have any issues I usually call and get through to someone within about 5 mins and service blocking is free (I think)
That time I insisted, and my rep managed to grab a manager who was 'walking by'. Yeah right.
Better than the one I heard where the rep failed to mute the phone and the customer heard him say, "Who wants to be my supervisor for a few minutes?"
Capitalism, per se, is not at fault. It's tax lawyers who warped a system which originally focused on long-term growth of capital into short-term growth.
There is nothing wrong with yr Internet. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling the transmission - NSA
I second this. I have T-mobile and while their android phone selection is kind of sucking right now, I can still get away with wireless tethering for free and they have one of the largest caps (10 gigs). I've easily blown through 2-5 gigs already this month. They also just boosted their speeds locally and I'm now pulling like 2.5-4mbps, which is a lot better than the 1mbps I was getting previously. Don't know when I'll start to see speeds over 5mbps, but I should probably upgrade to the latest radio. The worst they do to the people that exceed their caps is drop them down to edge, which still at least leaves their phones somewhat usable. Every other provider wants to nickel and dime you to death. Boost is good for cheap phone service, but their network is terrible and nowhere even near edge quality. I'd feel pretty bad for anyone that bought their proposed android phone. Its going to be rather painful. Seems like sprint is content to milk the old nextel network for all its worth.
Nope. The old Nextel (actually iDEN) network is not involved. Sprint uses CDMA for their resellers, and CDMA has so many parameters to tweak to favor cheap vs good that I just avoid CDMA whenever possible.
There is nothing wrong with yr Internet. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling the transmission - NSA
Verizon rips off customers...read all about it...
Vote with your virtual feet people! I have saved over 5000 gollars since i ditched verizon...
I hate Verizon. I hate calling them and dealing with their incompetant service reps that try to sell me new services. I've had so many billing issues with them in the past. My most recent one is where I ordered an extra cable box for a second tv and the rep signed me up for 2 extra services behind my back without asking me totalling an extra $30 a month.
If I could get my internet service from anywhere else that was decent I would do it right now.
I knew someone who decided to quit by just putting his headset on the table and reading a book, still in the phone queue, lasted a month before they found out his calls were just dead air.
Did that person have initials JB? Because the head tech at the local PC shop I work for (6+ years he's been here now actually fixing problems) did exactly that.
The government can't save you.
Escalation is the process the call center crowd has chosen.
They hire ppl as cheap as they can get them to perform the
basic task of basic support.
Anything outside the mainstream is escalation.
The ppl with so called specialized knowledge make a few bucks
and hour more, and there are a LOT less of them.
I have worked for several companies and they all followed this model.
It is all about the money.
google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"
On behalf of all CSRs, with plenty of experience at multiple companies....
We aren't allowed to solve your problem. It's not in that manual. As such your call needs to move to someone with a different book of "What I can do". I';m transferring you isn't nice, so they call the people with the bigger book some varient of higher or greater support(next level, second/third tier, L2, L3, product specialist, etc). If the problem isn't in their book they MIGHT be allowed to access google and see if they can fix it within the alotted time. If they cannot, then it goes on to the next set of people with a different book. Sometimes which set depends on what the problem is. Sometimes these people can actually request/suggest/design fixes for real problems. By "escalating" rather than "Dumping your call on some other hapless phone agent" it gives the false sense that your call is important to the company.