I assume you know that TCP ha a much shorter timeout and isn't even appropiate for a link to the sun. Then again your jsut trying to getr a few +1 funnies.
Ok I'll be the one to point it out I guess. Java used to be called Oak in the planning stages until it was found to be an already existin name for a language or something.
Such as Microsoft J++? Have I just spotted an astroturfer? Well lets introduce some facts.
Mac OSX allows java apps to be integrated into the system in such a way that they can have OSX menus and look like native apps. All while being simple.jar files that run on any other platform.
Its easy to install a precompiled java virtual machine on Windows, Mac, Linux, Sun, and with a tiny bit of work FreeBSD. Its getting easier with FreeBSD thanks to new legal agreements
Java allows them to "write once run anywhere." Yes C is portablw in theory, but look at all the #ifdef WIN32, #ifdef __LINUX, #ifdef __MIDDLEENDIAN crap needed to achieve this in reality.
Ok, so Bonker bring on the.NET argument. I'm rerady to refure it.
GCC having competition would be very good. It would make gcc and watcom better. Auctually ReactOS might benifit from this. I'm doing the java thing and mostly database oriented stuff right now, but Its good to see stuff happening in the system programming world.
How is it pitiful? Unless you need more than 2.88 megs to boot its fine. And you only need that to get a cdrom driver loaded and after that, bam 650-800 megs of space available to store stuff that needs to get copied to the execution stack eventually.
Yeah but if rednecks were doing the negotiations they would all shoot each other till then ran out of ammo and drink moonshine afterwards. Then the contracts would all find there way into a birdcage and the two sides would shake on something to the effect of:
If y'all at BSD promise to display a sun logo good and proper on you CDs and submit to stand`ards comp'lance then our boys at sun dont see no harm in you putting java on dem dare shiny platters with the devil pictures on dem.
Hey, some people idle and read all the conversations when they have time. They take up minimum bandwidth. I use to frequent #FreeBSD on whatever it was that irc.freshmeat.net is connected to, and I idled alot, but I contributed to the distribution of clue. I also got flamed alot, but from some highly intelligent people that embedded a good deal of clue distribution in there insults and belittling of me. Why did I stop, I discovered that you can learn alot from google and RTFMing. Also, I'm just not into the whole IRC/usenet type thing. I would join up, ask questions, help those dumber than me as my way of giving back and then get bored of it. I have the opposite of an addictive personality. I get into muds for brief periods and then stop only to startup again months later. I've posted more on slashdot in the past 24 hours than the past 6 months combined. In 2 weeks time I probally will just skim the home page and read about 3 screenfulls of comments per story of interest to me like normal.
IRL, a month of porting applications would simply mean an order of magnitude more security holes to fix.
The ports collection does not go under the same intense security audit as the rest of the code. Only the base code, this means kernel, basic userland, apache, perl, gcc, sendmail, X and not much else. This means that if they port gnumeric(and let me know I will IMMEDIATLY order myself a CD set if they do), it will not be security audited. If I could just get Gnumeric and a JDK/JRE with slightly better compliance than 1.1 I would be quite the happy spreadsheet crunching AWT/JDBC form making whore. I wish I had a spare box lying around somewhere to take the time to./configure && make && make install the tarball and see if I could help make it happen. Tell you what, if someone can get a gnumeric port for OpenBSD I'll be able to use it as my laptop OS and I will port and maintain tn5250 so I can telnet into as/400's for my dayjob. And perhaps I'll help with an SQL/Java open source project that would be of some use to someone lacking in that skill area.
I personally don't invest any time in it because I don't share there vision. However, this is a problem with any idea in the beginning. I've looked at their project for a while. I downloaded the ready to run ReactOS inside of Bochs thingy and ran a few commands. If it gets to the point where its useful I'll use it and throw them a few bucks or buy whetever book one of the authors wrote or something. Perhaps I'll contribute some code.
While IRC was intended as a chatting protocol, it is used also for file sharing, for better or for worse. IRC servers exist as a kind of public service for the most part, and the public uses them to transfer files as well as chat. The portion of the public that uses IRC mainly to transfer files will be negatively affected in that they can no longer do this on DalNet. What the people were trading is non issue, we're not discussing the net benifit to society.
My laptop is powered by FreeBSD. I switched from OpenBSD because KDE3 wouldn't compile.
Sun and FreeBSD have come to some kind of agreement so FreeBSD will be distributed with java once sun and java figure out what the agreement is that there lawyers made. Until then all you have to do is download two tarballs, stick them in the righ place and install like any other port.
No its not cool. No its not the place to be for games or embedded systems with GUIs. However, it's great for web/database type things and other places you need scalibility because alot more kernel parameters can be set on the fly than in linux. Also it does have its share of wizbang. Background fsck! Yeah thats boys and girls. System boots up after power failure or kernel panic, fack the / partition, which of course is small and does not contain/usr,/var or/tmp becasue your a competent sysadmin from all those years of slashdot reading. It mounts the other partitions dirty and does fsck while the system is up and running. No its not perfect, no I wouldn't do it on a server yet, but its available in 5.0 and by the time 5.2 comes out (the ok 5.x is ready to take on your super mission critical 5 9's project release) It will be, and its easy to turn off. However, it only failed me once and no data was lost. The point however is there is some innovation going on in FreeBSD land and sure its playing catchup with linux in certain aspects but every damn OS is playing catchup with every other fucking OS out there in some regard. Can you find me one super fast, super GUI, super CLI, Everyones using it OS?
Well the only problem with UNIX providing "anarchy" as you put it is that is one of the reasons that current thinking is disallowing shell logins whenever possible. Sure you don't "need" them with the new dumb terminal, the web browser, and its widget set, html. However, without keeping enough control availble to encourage controled systems of anarchy, the anarchy ends.
Why do you need the support for? When have you used it? Do you have special hardware that canot be supported buy the latest 2.0 or 2.2 kernel and there are security flaws in the last redhat provided 2.0 or 2.2 kernel? If your OS is that old chances are your not upgrading all your software just casue the new version is out, cause eventually you'd have to upgrade something like libc which would cause the migration headaches of a distro upgrade.
Ok the EOL doesn't affect the end user who can jsut download the next release and probally will because thats end user thinking.
The EOL Doesn't affect large corporations because they enter into long term contracts and have the resources to make sure support remains for the product.
So the question is is there anyone that is affected. Who are you what do you do and how are you affected. Also, is there no cost effeciv way to get third party support?
Ok I'm just your average college dropout geek turned corporate drone IT worker that does some coding on the side, but why exactly do you need this support.
The biggest issue I see is having to keep track of security patches. However, unless anyone besides admins and developers have shell access to the boxes, at which point theres little to stop damage from being done, the list of software that has to be check is releativly short. Functionality patches are easier to track, you know you have a functionality issue when things break. Sometimes its harder than that but those are cases where the vendor has no quick fixes.
Also what exactly are you paying for when you shell out the ~$100 dollars for a commercial distro. SuSE support only addresses install issues, I had to discover on my own that in order to use portfowarding with NAT with the SuSE firewall package I had to downgrade to 2.2.19.
So anyway explain what exactly your losing by this EOF thing?
As does SuSE. To be honest I never prnted from SuSe casue the only printer in my house is a Cannon. However, my friend, a MechE installed SuSE on his computer and got his tv card, sound and printer to work. I saw the test page on his desk and was blown away. It prints a color pallete circle thing and everything. Much nicer then the windows default print page.
And while it is true that in an ideal world the end user should not have./configure or make anything. Well In my ideal world school children would learn vim by age 8. However, its nice to be able to start./configuring and getting meanfull verbose error messages when things do break.
Not familar with python, although I know one form of using it is interperted via a hash-bang (#!/usr/loval/bin/python). However, java is compiled into bytecode run by a jvm en emulator for a system that doesn't exist.
Well get a bunch of college students to smelt steel in there spare time and that problem will be solved. Seriously though, steel can;t be copied as cheaply as software. The fact that you have to produce it and shelling out a $1000 followed bye $40 a month for DSL and an increase to your electric bill won't get you an infinite supply makes steel slightly different from software.
3 - At some point the subsidies will run out. Parents without hi-tech jobs will loose their ability to send their children to college, and financial aid sources will be overwhelmed by the need, and then the number of college students will fall dramatically. Who them will write the software needed to power industry? For that matter, as military and government stampeede to "free software", who will write the software THEY require? Maybe they will start supporting those college students no longer finding support from their parents and traditional financial support sources?
Then there will be no more free software and acompanies will hire all the parents back. Sure its way more complex than that, but the market has ways of keeping itself in check.
Slashdot Mirror
I assume you know that TCP ha a much shorter timeout and isn't even appropiate for a link to the sun. Then again your jsut trying to getr a few +1 funnies.
Ok I'll be the one to point it out I guess. Java used to be called Oak in the planning stages until it was found to be an already existin name for a language or something.
I believe it a case of what are we going to do with this poor adhesive.
Ok, so Bonker bring on the
GCC having competition would be very good. It would make gcc and watcom better. Auctually ReactOS might benifit from this. I'm doing the java thing and mostly database oriented stuff right now, but Its good to see stuff happening in the system programming world.
Hey, what do you think this is, everything2?
How is it pitiful? Unless you need more than 2.88 megs to boot its fine. And you only need that to get a cdrom driver loaded and after that, bam 650-800 megs of space available to store stuff that needs to get copied to the execution stack eventually.
Yeah but if rednecks were doing the negotiations they would all shoot each other till then ran out of ammo and drink moonshine afterwards. Then the contracts would all find there way into a birdcage and the two sides would shake on something to the effect of:
If y'all at BSD promise to display a sun logo good and proper on you CDs and submit to stand`ards comp'lance then our boys at sun dont see no harm in you putting java on dem dare shiny platters with the devil pictures on dem.
Hey, some people idle and read all the conversations when they have time. They take up minimum bandwidth. I use to frequent #FreeBSD on whatever it was that irc.freshmeat.net is connected to, and I idled alot, but I contributed to the distribution of clue. I also got flamed alot, but from some highly intelligent people that embedded a good deal of clue distribution in there insults and belittling of me. Why did I stop, I discovered that you can learn alot from google and RTFMing. Also, I'm just not into the whole IRC/usenet type thing. I would join up, ask questions, help those dumber than me as my way of giving back and then get bored of it. I have the opposite of an addictive personality. I get into muds for brief periods and then stop only to startup again months later. I've posted more on slashdot in the past 24 hours than the past 6 months combined. In 2 weeks time I probally will just skim the home page and read about 3 screenfulls of comments per story of interest to me like normal.
Define failure. It works, its used, and its actively developed.
IRL, a month of porting applications would simply mean an order of magnitude more security holes to fix.
./configure && make && make install the tarball and see if I could help make it happen. Tell you what, if someone can get a gnumeric port for OpenBSD I'll be able to use it as my laptop OS and I will port and maintain tn5250 so I can telnet into as/400's for my dayjob. And perhaps I'll help with an SQL/Java open source project that would be of some use to someone lacking in that skill area.
The ports collection does not go under the same intense security audit as the rest of the code. Only the base code, this means kernel, basic userland, apache, perl, gcc, sendmail, X and not much else. This means that if they port gnumeric(and let me know I will IMMEDIATLY order myself a CD set if they do), it will not be security audited. If I could just get Gnumeric and a JDK/JRE with slightly better compliance than 1.1 I would be quite the happy spreadsheet crunching AWT/JDBC form making whore. I wish I had a spare box lying around somewhere to take the time to
I personally don't invest any time in it because I don't share there vision. However, this is a problem with any idea in the beginning. I've looked at their project for a while. I downloaded the ready to run ReactOS inside of Bochs thingy and ran a few commands. If it gets to the point where its useful I'll use it and throw them a few bucks or buy whetever book one of the authors wrote or something. Perhaps I'll contribute some code.
While IRC was intended as a chatting protocol, it is used also for file sharing, for better or for worse. IRC servers exist as a kind of public service for the most part, and the public uses them to transfer files as well as chat. The portion of the public that uses IRC mainly to transfer files will be negatively affected in that they can no longer do this on DalNet. What the people were trading is non issue, we're not discussing the net benifit to society.
Well its not whether rootshell access is intended, its who intended it.
In Soviet Russia, unix box has unintended root access to you.
So lets look at some facts:
- Yahoo is powered by freebsd
- Hotmail was (is still?) poewered by FreeBSD
- My laptop is powered by FreeBSD
- KDE works great and GNOME ain't to shabby
- My laptop is powered by FreeBSD. I switched from OpenBSD because KDE3 wouldn't compile.
- Sun and FreeBSD have come to some kind of agreement so FreeBSD will be distributed with java once sun and java figure out what the agreement is that there lawyers made. Until then all you have to do is download two tarballs, stick them in the righ place and install like any other port.
No its not cool. No its not the place to be for games or embedded systems with GUIs. However, it's great for web/database type things and other places you need scalibility because alot more kernel parameters can be set on the fly than in linux. Also it does have its share of wizbang. Background fsck! Yeah thats boys and girls. System boots up after power failure or kernel panic, fack the / partition, which of course is small and does not containWell the only problem with UNIX providing "anarchy" as you put it is that is one of the reasons that current thinking is disallowing shell logins whenever possible. Sure you don't "need" them with the new dumb terminal, the web browser, and its widget set, html. However, without keeping enough control availble to encourage controled systems of anarchy, the anarchy ends.
Why do you need the support for? When have you used it? Do you have special hardware that canot be supported buy the latest 2.0 or 2.2 kernel and there are security flaws in the last redhat provided 2.0 or 2.2 kernel? If your OS is that old chances are your not upgrading all your software just casue the new version is out, cause eventually you'd have to upgrade something like libc which would cause the migration headaches of a distro upgrade.
Ok the EOL doesn't affect the end user who can jsut download the next release and probally will because thats end user thinking.
The EOL Doesn't affect large corporations because they enter into long term contracts and have the resources to make sure support remains for the product.
So the question is is there anyone that is affected. Who are you what do you do and how are you affected. Also, is there no cost effeciv way to get third party support?
Ok I'm just your average college dropout geek turned corporate drone IT worker that does some coding on the side, but why exactly do you need this support.
The biggest issue I see is having to keep track of security patches. However, unless anyone besides admins and developers have shell access to the boxes, at which point theres little to stop damage from being done, the list of software that has to be check is releativly short. Functionality patches are easier to track, you know you have a functionality issue when things break. Sometimes its harder than that but those are cases where the vendor has no quick fixes.
Also what exactly are you paying for when you shell out the ~$100 dollars for a commercial distro. SuSE support only addresses install issues, I had to discover on my own that in order to use portfowarding with NAT with the SuSE firewall package I had to downgrade to 2.2.19.
So anyway explain what exactly your losing by this EOF thing?
1. The understanding that Redhat has the above
./configure or make anything. Well In my ideal world school children would learn vim by age 8. However, its nice to be able to start ./configuring and getting meanfull verbose error messages when things do break.
As does SuSE. To be honest I never prnted from SuSe casue the only printer in my house is a Cannon. However, my friend, a MechE installed SuSE on his computer and got his tv card, sound and printer to work. I saw the test page on his desk and was blown away. It prints a color pallete circle thing and everything. Much nicer then the windows default print page. And while it is true that in an ideal world the end user should not have
I was referring to the GUI toolkit itself being written in C++ (and thus compiled/fast), not necessarily the surrounding application.
Ok but te swing api is written in java and compiled into java bytecode. Only the lowlevel graphic calls of the vm are implemented in native code.
Not familar with python, although I know one form of using it is interperted via a hash-bang (#!/usr/loval/bin/python). However, java is compiled into bytecode run by a jvm en emulator for a system that doesn't exist.
They gave me kepler :)
Well get a bunch of college students to smelt steel in there spare time and that problem will be solved. Seriously though, steel can;t be copied as cheaply as software. The fact that you have to produce it and shelling out a $1000 followed bye $40 a month for DSL and an increase to your electric bill won't get you an infinite supply makes steel slightly different from software.
3 - At some point the subsidies will run out. Parents without hi-tech jobs will loose their ability to send their children to college, and financial aid sources will be overwhelmed by the need, and then the number of college students will fall dramatically. Who them will write the software needed to power industry? For that matter, as military and government stampeede to "free software", who will write the software THEY require? Maybe they will start supporting those college students no longer finding support from their parents and traditional financial support sources?
Then there will be no more free software and acompanies will hire all the parents back. Sure its way more complex than that, but the market has ways of keeping itself in check.