Pretty much every single person has agreed that the Leaf is a "piece of shit" car from a luxury perspective.
Given that this is uncited, my final assumption remains 'unblown' because you failed to load any real charge into your argument.
Just to prevent goal-post moving, keep in mind that I'm not saying the leaf is a 'luxury' vehicle, just that it's more 'luxurious' than a $15k car. So for any citations, please make sure they're not doing something like comparing a leaf with a BMW or a Tesla. Nope, more something like a Honda Fit.
I don't use the Chevy Volt because it's a hybrid, not a pure EV.
Yes, and I'm not sure why you'd think I didn't. What my mentioning that weight is "still an issue with LiIon". Heck, the 'weighs a feather' is in comparison with lead-acid. A similar energy amount of lead-acid batteries wouldn't weigh 1200 pounds - it'd weigh 4,000.
Any weight they can shave off the battery pack will result in noticeable improvements in range, handling, and longevity (due to reduced wear and tear on the suspension).
My point was that it's a manageable issue. We have suspensions that can survive in tractor-trailers for significant periods of time. For that matter, the Tesla weighs about much as it's competitiors - cars like BMWs(4190). Hell, they chopped weight off the BMW since I last checked - a couple years ago it was actually heavier than the Tesla. Plus, the battery weight is about ideally located, in comparison with the weight location for an internal combustion engine.
Yes, lighter would be better. You'd also see improvements, probably more so, if they could chop a few hundred pounds off of the frame and upholstery of the car.
I'd say more that Lithium batteries are different than other chemistries, than 'have decay issues not present'.
Each chemistry has it's upsides and downsides. One can as easily say that LiIon batteries can be 'overcharged' at a cost in service life, and most small devices use this, shortening the life of their batteries substantially.
Decay issues can be different. LiIon - doesn't like being 'fully' charged. Lead-Acid - doesn't like being fully discharged NiMH - doesn't like being charged quickly etc...
All batteries degrade some with time and use. The amount varies by chemistry, but also construction. LiIon has had great leaps in limiting degradation over time, and batteries in EVs tend to be the ones most resistant to degradation, even at the cost of some capacity, compared to small mobile devices.
However in the South while it was about money too it is inescapable that this money and the power it provided was derived from the institution of slavery.
Indeed my point. The civil war ended up being about economics, the money, as people say. However, one has to also realize where said economics came from. In the south, Money = slaves and slaves = money. Even the poorest whites in the south hoped to, one day, own slaves.
For example, In the South, just before the civil war, the greatest asset of a slave plantation wasn't the land, buildings, equipment, or even the freshly harvested crops. Even if you added the value of the land, improvements, equipment, and supplies together you would normally not exceed the single biggest asset group for the plantation - which was the slaves providing the labor.
So when the South goes to war claiming 'We won't let the north ruin us economically! We must protect our economy' etc... You better believe that it was about slavery.
Hmmm... don't pretty much 100% of all electric cars need their batteries replaced after a few years?
\
Define 'few years'. The number of vehicles needing engine work after a decade is quite high. The Leaf's battery isn't rated to last as long or as well as a Tesla's, and it should still retain around 70% of it's capacity after a decade.
Every slave ship sailing from Africa to the USA sailed under the US flag. For over 100 years of slavery, it was all done under the US flag.
Do you have a citation on this? The USA had been in existence as a country for less than 100 years by the time slavery was abolished. So it would be tough on the 'over 100 years', and I doubt every single slave ship was sailing under the US flag during that.
The Civil was did not start because of slavery and was not because of slavery.
Odd, slavery was mentioned quite often in my US history classes as a reason for the US Civil War.
Now, I'll give people that it wasn't the only reason for it, but it was certainly up there.
Or, perhaps to be a bit more precise*, the south saw increasing amounts of federal control and Northern rabble-rousing against the very foundations of their economic system and therefore wealth. Of course, one of the major pillars of said economic system was slavery, and the one most attacked by the north...
To say that the civil was wasn't started because of slavery is a bit like saying 'rape isn't about sex'.
*but still not completely, because that would take books
Yeah, but I guess my question is, if it reduces the "nonfunctional material in the structure" by 80%, I'm assuming that's by volume, and that means the battery would take up 20% of its current size to achieve the same results.
Be careful about assuming. There's a reason I mentioned volume separately from weight, and both are valid measurements for this scenario.
The only way the battery would end up being 20% of it's 'current size', whether that's weight or volume, is if it consisted 100% of non-functional material, which we know isn't true. 'Non-functional material' in this case is probably a little vague, but would consist of things like strength members, anode/cathode material that never acts as anode/cathode, electrolyte that, for whatever reason, doesn't do it's job, etc...
If you instead figure that the non-functional material is only 10% of the battery, reducing IT by 80% means that your batter wouldn't be 20% of the previous size, but 92%. A substantial savings, but not 'crazy' by any means.
In the way I was raised, braking the law is wrong and obeying the law is right.
Only generally true. I was raised in the USA. We still have to deal with the specter of legal slavery, much less the much more recent Jim Crow laws outlining government discrimination against blacks.
Then you mention drug dealers. Do you know that medical Marijuana is now legal in 16 states, and recreational use is legal(or becoming legal) in 4.
So while by federal law a dispenser of medical marijuana is a "drug dealer", but is it morally wrong to be dispensing a drug to patients where it provides measurable improvements to their quality of life? Inhaled THC is very good at reducing nasea and stimulating the apatite, which factors nicely for countering some of the effects of chemotherapy.
If you read the OP, it mentions that the electrolyte doesn't flow in this battery, so it's not a flow type. What they DID do was take some knowledge from flow battery technology and use it to improve 'conventional' non-flow batteries by changing up how the electrolyte works.
You expect a laptop to retain 70-80% of it's capacity after 5 years? To still have ~70% after 10 years? You also think that the battery isn't replaceable in a worst case scenario(~$5k with the return of the old battery)?
News: Laptop and cell phone batteries are drive hard compared to a electric car's battery. The leaf has some issues over the Tesla, because a Tesla uses liquid cooling in it's battery.
For example, the most 'wear' that a LiIon gets is when it's charged from 90% to 100%. EVs 'generally' redefine 100% to actually be 90% of battery capacity in order to protect the battery. This increases it's lifespan significantly.
Because from what I remember reading, a big part of the difficulty in engineering electric cars is that batteries are big and heavy.
This was what I'd call a 'critical deal-breaker' in the days of Lead-Acid, critical for NiMH, but while still an issue with LiIon, it's nowhere near as 'unmanageable'. This is how Tesla can manage to build a car that can travel over 300 miles(with some hypermile driving, but still close to 300 even without) completely unrecharged.
Lead Acid:.14 MJ/kg sourcewiki NiMH:.36 MJ/kg LiIon:.46 MJ/kg
Wikipedia lists LiIon as 'expensive', but the price has been dropping significantly every year for years. So what happens if both this and Musk's battery factory work out and car sized LiIon batteries are now 25% of the cost they were, say, 5 years ago?
Way back in the lead-acid days I said 'there's nothing wrong with electric cars that a battery that stores twice as much power for half the cost wouldn't fix'.
Well, LiIon fixes the 'twice the power' part over lead-acid. It's just as bulky(generally) as lead-acid, but it weighs a feather compared to a lead-acid battery of the same volume, and space can be dealt with when you're designing a car to use the battery from the ground up. For example, Tesla's battery is basically a sled that screws into the bottom of the car.
But back then it cost over twice as much as lead acid. Today we're finally reaching that 'magic' point.
You're failing to factor in total cost of ownership.
Let's say that the alternative is a 30mpg car. I'm being a little mean and not using 40mph because I'm figuring that the buyer is a city driver.
National average mileage is 15k miles, but I'll use 12k. I'll also be 'crazy' and say the buyer is not doing their own oil changes or other maintenance beyond keeping the windshield washer fluid topped off, that he can charge for free at work, and that both cars will last 10 years.
This means that the Leaf will cost roughly $3k/year, and the 'similar gas car' is $1.5k.
$3/gallon gasoline: 400 gallons a year avoided, $1200/year avoided there. 4 oil changes/year: ~$200 Other avoided maintenance: roughly $100-200/year. Includes things like: antifreeze, brakes, belts, etc...
Oh, and a leaf is going to be more luxurious than a $15k car, even new.
At least in the case of the super 8, at least for the ones I've been to, it tends to be much more for 'overnight' clients, not long term guests. Motel, not Hotel.
As such, not too bad, though you do get occasional rambunctious kids.
The trick here is that price controls are far from the only option. Off the top of my head to increase housing: 1. Keep out of the way of housing developers when it comes to 'affordable housing'. IE get rid of size requirements, don't require 'every' unit be handicapped accessible, etc... 2. DO require developers who are building non-housing buildings (office, retail, industrial) to build a certain amount of housing as well. 3. Encourage dual-use office and retail spaces. PUT housing on top of the offices and retail shops. 4. And yes, actually subsidize the construction of 'affordable' housing.
I think that it's the apartment complex requiring the 'no more than 33%' thing, probably because this helps ensure that they get paid, and their renters will be able to maintain the 'appropriate lifestyle'. Remember, a lot of renting upscale apartments is that the people want to be around other upscale people, not 'plebes'.
The government recommends the 36% thing as a matter of 'sound financial planning'.
Developers are building new apartments as fast as they can--luxury apartments that charge higher than market rates, further inflating the market.
This is the core control. Yes, they're building luxury apartments, but that's a bit like selling new cars. Somebody moving into said luxury apartment is probably moving out of a less luxury apartment, which frees said apartment for less-well off types.
"As fast as they can" means that, sooner or later, they'll catch up, occupancy rates will drop a bit, and prices will stabilize and probably drop.
Oh, and 'solid offer at above-market pricing' is something of a misnomer - if you can consistently sell places for 'above market', then whatever is being used to measure 'market' is inaccurate.
The terms for click through EULAs that you don't see until AFTER you've made your purchase and unpacked the goods are mostly ignored by the courts as well.
To be fair, it doesn't mention ANY specific replacement power supply other than 'renewable'. It doesn't mention solar, wind, geothermal, tidal, biomass, etc....
I also hit his site up, and there's no additional information there. Plenty of asking for money though.
I don't know why pollsters think they have a right to rudely cold-call people and take up their time - without giving anything back.
Technically they're giving back information that's going to be in the news tomorrow or next week.
Indeed. I recently filled out a survey, but they're giving away a $500 gift card to those who respond. Personally, I'd have preferred $5. I'm not much of a gambler1
Offer about $15/hour for your survey (So a 20 minute survey would be $5), and response rates should rise.
Pressed CDs won't last forever, but with proper care, they should last hundreds of years. Maybe even thousands.
That's only if they were sealed correctly and stored right. There was an article a few years ago about how a lot of discs were coming up unusable after only 6-12.
Bacteria were getting in and eating the film or something.
Slashdot Mirror
Pretty much every single person has agreed that the Leaf is a "piece of shit" car from a luxury perspective.
Given that this is uncited, my final assumption remains 'unblown' because you failed to load any real charge into your argument.
Just to prevent goal-post moving, keep in mind that I'm not saying the leaf is a 'luxury' vehicle, just that it's more 'luxurious' than a $15k car. So for any citations, please make sure they're not doing something like comparing a leaf with a BMW or a Tesla. Nope, more something like a Honda Fit.
I don't use the Chevy Volt because it's a hybrid, not a pure EV.
You're aware the Tesla S weighs as much as a SUV?
Yes, and I'm not sure why you'd think I didn't. What my mentioning that weight is "still an issue with LiIon". Heck, the 'weighs a feather' is in comparison with lead-acid. A similar energy amount of lead-acid batteries wouldn't weigh 1200 pounds - it'd weigh 4,000.
Any weight they can shave off the battery pack will result in noticeable improvements in range, handling, and longevity (due to reduced wear and tear on the suspension).
My point was that it's a manageable issue. We have suspensions that can survive in tractor-trailers for significant periods of time. For that matter, the Tesla weighs about much as it's competitiors - cars like BMWs(4190). Hell, they chopped weight off the BMW since I last checked - a couple years ago it was actually heavier than the Tesla. Plus, the battery weight is about ideally located, in comparison with the weight location for an internal combustion engine.
Yes, lighter would be better. You'd also see improvements, probably more so, if they could chop a few hundred pounds off of the frame and upholstery of the car.
I'd say more that Lithium batteries are different than other chemistries, than 'have decay issues not present'.
Each chemistry has it's upsides and downsides. One can as easily say that LiIon batteries can be 'overcharged' at a cost in service life, and most small devices use this, shortening the life of their batteries substantially.
Decay issues can be different.
LiIon - doesn't like being 'fully' charged.
Lead-Acid - doesn't like being fully discharged
NiMH - doesn't like being charged quickly
etc...
All batteries degrade some with time and use. The amount varies by chemistry, but also construction. LiIon has had great leaps in limiting degradation over time, and batteries in EVs tend to be the ones most resistant to degradation, even at the cost of some capacity, compared to small mobile devices.
However in the South while it was about money too it is inescapable that this money and the power it provided was derived from the institution of slavery.
Indeed my point. The civil war ended up being about economics, the money, as people say. However, one has to also realize where said economics came from. In the south, Money = slaves and slaves = money. Even the poorest whites in the south hoped to, one day, own slaves.
For example, In the South, just before the civil war, the greatest asset of a slave plantation wasn't the land, buildings, equipment, or even the freshly harvested crops. Even if you added the value of the land, improvements, equipment, and supplies together you would normally not exceed the single biggest asset group for the plantation - which was the slaves providing the labor.
So when the South goes to war claiming 'We won't let the north ruin us economically! We must protect our economy' etc... You better believe that it was about slavery.
Hmmm ... don't pretty much 100% of all electric cars need their batteries replaced after a few years?
\
Define 'few years'. The number of vehicles needing engine work after a decade is quite high. The Leaf's battery isn't rated to last as long or as well as a Tesla's, and it should still retain around 70% of it's capacity after a decade.
I'm sure the US flag is flown in displays honoring 'all countries' and 'allied countries' though.
The 'confederate flag' being flown is because the state in question made some variation of it their state flag or such, from what I understand.
I dislike google pulling confederate flags because of the 'free speech' thing, but I view it as their right.
Every slave ship sailing from Africa to the USA sailed under the US flag.
For over 100 years of slavery, it was all done under the US flag.
Do you have a citation on this? The USA had been in existence as a country for less than 100 years by the time slavery was abolished. So it would be tough on the 'over 100 years', and I doubt every single slave ship was sailing under the US flag during that.
The Civil was did not start because of slavery and was not because of slavery.
Odd, slavery was mentioned quite often in my US history classes as a reason for the US Civil War.
Now, I'll give people that it wasn't the only reason for it, but it was certainly up there.
Or, perhaps to be a bit more precise*, the south saw increasing amounts of federal control and Northern rabble-rousing against the very foundations of their economic system and therefore wealth. Of course, one of the major pillars of said economic system was slavery, and the one most attacked by the north...
To say that the civil was wasn't started because of slavery is a bit like saying 'rape isn't about sex'.
*but still not completely, because that would take books
Yeah, but I guess my question is, if it reduces the "nonfunctional material in the structure" by 80%, I'm assuming that's by volume, and that means the battery would take up 20% of its current size to achieve the same results.
Be careful about assuming. There's a reason I mentioned volume separately from weight, and both are valid measurements for this scenario.
The only way the battery would end up being 20% of it's 'current size', whether that's weight or volume, is if it consisted 100% of non-functional material, which we know isn't true. 'Non-functional material' in this case is probably a little vague, but would consist of things like strength members, anode/cathode material that never acts as anode/cathode, electrolyte that, for whatever reason, doesn't do it's job, etc...
If you instead figure that the non-functional material is only 10% of the battery, reducing IT by 80% means that your batter wouldn't be 20% of the previous size, but 92%. A substantial savings, but not 'crazy' by any means.
At 5%, the difference in 'cost of capital' is only $750 for the first year, and declines after that.
Meanwhile, you have to worry that gasoline won't stay around $3/gallon. It will probably head back up to $4/gallon.
I also didn't figure on any subsidies either.
In the way I was raised, braking the law is wrong and obeying the law is right.
Only generally true. I was raised in the USA. We still have to deal with the specter of legal slavery, much less the much more recent Jim Crow laws outlining government discrimination against blacks.
Then you mention drug dealers. Do you know that medical Marijuana is now legal in 16 states, and recreational use is legal(or becoming legal) in 4.
So while by federal law a dispenser of medical marijuana is a "drug dealer", but is it morally wrong to be dispensing a drug to patients where it provides measurable improvements to their quality of life? Inhaled THC is very good at reducing nasea and stimulating the apatite, which factors nicely for countering some of the effects of chemotherapy.
Spelling Nazi: breaking the law,
If you read the OP, it mentions that the electrolyte doesn't flow in this battery, so it's not a flow type. What they DID do was take some knowledge from flow battery technology and use it to improve 'conventional' non-flow batteries by changing up how the electrolyte works.
You expect a laptop to retain 70-80% of it's capacity after 5 years? To still have ~70% after 10 years? You also think that the battery isn't replaceable in a worst case scenario(~$5k with the return of the old battery)?
News: Laptop and cell phone batteries are drive hard compared to a electric car's battery. The leaf has some issues over the Tesla, because a Tesla uses liquid cooling in it's battery.
For example, the most 'wear' that a LiIon gets is when it's charged from 90% to 100%. EVs 'generally' redefine 100% to actually be 90% of battery capacity in order to protect the battery. This increases it's lifespan significantly.
Because from what I remember reading, a big part of the difficulty in engineering electric cars is that batteries are big and heavy.
This was what I'd call a 'critical deal-breaker' in the days of Lead-Acid, critical for NiMH, but while still an issue with LiIon, it's nowhere near as 'unmanageable'. This is how Tesla can manage to build a car that can travel over 300 miles(with some hypermile driving, but still close to 300 even without) completely unrecharged.
Lead Acid: .14 MJ/kg source wiki .36 MJ/kg .46 MJ/kg
NiMH:
LiIon:
Wikipedia lists LiIon as 'expensive', but the price has been dropping significantly every year for years. So what happens if both this and Musk's battery factory work out and car sized LiIon batteries are now 25% of the cost they were, say, 5 years ago?
Way back in the lead-acid days I said 'there's nothing wrong with electric cars that a battery that stores twice as much power for half the cost wouldn't fix'.
Well, LiIon fixes the 'twice the power' part over lead-acid. It's just as bulky(generally) as lead-acid, but it weighs a feather compared to a lead-acid battery of the same volume, and space can be dealt with when you're designing a car to use the battery from the ground up. For example, Tesla's battery is basically a sled that screws into the bottom of the car.
But back then it cost over twice as much as lead acid. Today we're finally reaching that 'magic' point.
You're failing to factor in total cost of ownership.
Let's say that the alternative is a 30mpg car. I'm being a little mean and not using 40mph because I'm figuring that the buyer is a city driver.
National average mileage is 15k miles, but I'll use 12k. I'll also be 'crazy' and say the buyer is not doing their own oil changes or other maintenance beyond keeping the windshield washer fluid topped off, that he can charge for free at work, and that both cars will last 10 years.
This means that the Leaf will cost roughly $3k/year, and the 'similar gas car' is $1.5k.
$3/gallon gasoline: 400 gallons a year avoided, $1200/year avoided there.
4 oil changes/year: ~$200
Other avoided maintenance: roughly $100-200/year. Includes things like: antifreeze, brakes, belts, etc...
Oh, and a leaf is going to be more luxurious than a $15k car, even new.
At least in the case of the super 8, at least for the ones I've been to, it tends to be much more for 'overnight' clients, not long term guests. Motel, not Hotel.
As such, not too bad, though you do get occasional rambunctious kids.
The trick here is that price controls are far from the only option. Off the top of my head to increase housing:
1. Keep out of the way of housing developers when it comes to 'affordable housing'. IE get rid of size requirements, don't require 'every' unit be handicapped accessible, etc...
2. DO require developers who are building non-housing buildings (office, retail, industrial) to build a certain amount of housing as well.
3. Encourage dual-use office and retail spaces. PUT housing on top of the offices and retail shops.
4. And yes, actually subsidize the construction of 'affordable' housing.
I think that it's the apartment complex requiring the 'no more than 33%' thing, probably because this helps ensure that they get paid, and their renters will be able to maintain the 'appropriate lifestyle'. Remember, a lot of renting upscale apartments is that the people want to be around other upscale people, not 'plebes'.
The government recommends the 36% thing as a matter of 'sound financial planning'.
Developers are building new apartments as fast as they can--luxury apartments that charge higher than market rates, further inflating the market.
This is the core control. Yes, they're building luxury apartments, but that's a bit like selling new cars. Somebody moving into said luxury apartment is probably moving out of a less luxury apartment, which frees said apartment for less-well off types.
"As fast as they can" means that, sooner or later, they'll catch up, occupancy rates will drop a bit, and prices will stabilize and probably drop.
Oh, and 'solid offer at above-market pricing' is something of a misnomer - if you can consistently sell places for 'above market', then whatever is being used to measure 'market' is inaccurate.
and has never been done for EULAs.
The terms for click through EULAs that you don't see until AFTER you've made your purchase and unpacked the goods are mostly ignored by the courts as well.
His Op-Ed doesn't mention nuclear even once.
To be fair, it doesn't mention ANY specific replacement power supply other than 'renewable'. It doesn't mention solar, wind, geothermal, tidal, biomass, etc....
I also hit his site up, and there's no additional information there. Plenty of asking for money though.
I go through 3 round-abouts on my way to work, in the USA.
The main 'problem' is that a traditional intersection is more space efficient - so in a lot of places there simply isn't room for one.
I don't know why pollsters think they have a right to rudely cold-call people and take up their time - without giving anything back.
Technically they're giving back information that's going to be in the news tomorrow or next week.
Indeed. I recently filled out a survey, but they're giving away a $500 gift card to those who respond. Personally, I'd have preferred $5. I'm not much of a gambler1
Offer about $15/hour for your survey (So a 20 minute survey would be $5), and response rates should rise.
Sure, and they also have to not be burned in a fire, microwaved, dropped overboard at sea, or run over by a truck.
That's what I meant by 'stored right'. 'Sealed correctly' was the factory's job, and there's been reports of lots of failures.
Pressed CDs won't last forever, but with proper care, they should last hundreds of years. Maybe even thousands.
That's only if they were sealed correctly and stored right. There was an article a few years ago about how a lot of discs were coming up unusable after only 6-12.
Bacteria were getting in and eating the film or something.