Who has an interest in defeating RedHat? Yes, I am sure some of you will say Microsoft, but they have no way of claiming damages for this.
Actually, I can think of a few scenarios where Microsoft, or anyone else, could get RH into court over this by using a "tame" customer and a faked security breach.
The point is not that this is a likely scenario (which it certainly isn't) but that it should not be a possible scenario.
Slyarov ticked off Adobe (rightly so), and 2600.com ticked off the MPAA. Both plaintifs had valid claims to damages, and continuing damages without the current situation being rectified.
The MPAA never had a case against 2600, the DeCSS code is pretty well useless for copying DVD's (in comparison to the way they are really copied) and they only got the win by getting a judge that was prepared to ignore the evidence and the law to do his old bosses (that's right - the judge used to work for the MPAA's legal department) a favour. In the UK we call this "corruption" or being "a bent judge".
I know a court has ruled deCSS to be in violation of the DMCA, but that was because the judge was stupid, and the MPAA was smart enough to convince him that the utility is "primarily intended for circumvention of a protection mechanism". The keyword there is "primarily".
So, is your point that there is only one stupid/bent judge in the system or that there is no one who would have a vested interest in having RedHat slapped for breaking a stupid law? In either case, you're wrong.
But software license agreements can't just be arbitrarily changed by either party.
Except, because they are not real licenses that you have to sign up to, and because everyone for some reason just agrees that they must have some legal weight (which they don't) then they can. Until people start saying on-mass that these EULA's are junk then they will find themselves in this position.
You can't on the one hand accept that something no one signs is a real license while also claiming that that thing is set in stone. What stone? Where is the authenticated signed wording that you agreed to? Where is your proof that you didn't agree to the new wording as easily as you agreed to the old wording?
Of course there is the possibility that BitKeeper could take away someone's right arbitrarily to use the program. But it's not going to happen.
It already did. If you are on a campus where anyone (not you - anyone) is working on patches to CVS you are not allowed to use Bitkeeper in the same way I am. What's not arbitary about that?
You know, it's vocal, endorsed and promoted projects like this that give the OSS and free software community a bad name.
If you mean by "bad name" that they stand for the right of people that BUY a product to use it without fear of being hounded by an lawbreaking organisation such as Microsoft, or that they aim to defend the written law of fair use from being destroyed by bribes and corruption at the highest levels of the judicial system then I'm all for being called "Mudd".
Perhaps the OSS and free software community should consider a different approach to establishing their self-image and promoting their cause.
Perhaps you should consider your position as a marketing droid's wet dream. Perhaps you should consider your role as an instrument of corporate interferance in everyday life. Perhaps you should consider smelling the coffee.
It would appear that you have lost sight of what (not just) Microsoft are trying do here: they are trying to say "You paid us fair and square for our machine but we still own it and, in fact, we now own a little bit of you because we can tell you what (not) to do with our little box of tricks."
2K boxen were used for every document written and every printjob run
I've replaced the print server at our offices with my own spooler running under Linux. Works fine for months of up time. The trick is to install the Adobe Postscript generic printer driver on all the Windows machines so that they only send decent PS to the Linux box. It then uses Ghostscript + Gimp Print/Foomatic/Hp drivers etc to do the printing to the actual printer.
Go read the fscking links. All it says is that you can't use BitKeeper to work on competing products. Can you use BitKeeper to work on The GIMP? Sure.
Today. What about next week when Larry reveals his great new paint program? Who died and let him decide what people can program?
Does MS have the right to prevent people using Excel to show that they're not stumping up dividends? Can GM tell you not to drive to anti-GM protests in your car?
If they really hated free software, they wouldn't be doing this.
Um, I think you'll find that they are doing this because they do hate free software, at least when it's free as in "free competition".
Don't insult my reading comprehension. That's rude and unnecessary. I read and quoted your entire post and asked you to clarify.
You quoted the post and asked me to clarify a point that was not in it ("How has RMS's message been counterproductive?" when I had said that he had become counter productive and had specifically said that his message had become lost). It was a reasonable assumption that you had not read the post carefully enough.
Read my post again; his message has not become counter-productive, his manner has. The whole irrational GUN/Linux argument has convinced a lot of people that anything RMS says can safely be ignored as the rantings of a crank. This is in turn hurting the GPL. The fact that anyone ever considered using BitKeeper is a sign that the message of why the GPL is so important to programmers working on projects like the kernel has been lost in the noise somewhere.
Many slashdot posters seem to think Richard is just a voice crying out in the wilderness, but increasingly he seems to be a prophet.
The real problem is that RMS may or may not be a prophet but he insists on acting like god and pissing off people just by his tone. The real message gets lost in the ensuing flamewar. Overall he has become counter-productive to his own aims
NASA's budget is tiny compared to the military and is a damn sight more useful. I'd say that letting commercial interests interfere in pure research is not a desirable thing; it would be better to trim the huge piles of fat off the military budget and give it to NASA to do some good with.
They can bitch and moan all they like, and they can go after a few big mod chip marketers, and how does that make a difference?
Would you suggest that the chip makers just "don't listen" to MS when they come ofter them? Do you think it would help them? I sure as hell don't.
The other thing to consider of course is that Microsoft is not doing this just because they're bored - they have a responsibility to the companies that make games for their console.
Like MS gives a toss about other companies. The only interest they have in the X-box is to make the X-box2 a platform for DRM; that's why they're so keen on stamping out mod chips: they're posturing to the guys in Hollywood that they can be trusted to keep user's sticky fingers out of their product when the time comes.
The big problem I have with the source distros is the need to start from a CD. Is it not possible to start from an old Linux install and download something that allows the bootstrapping of the new system from there?
If anyone out there has a good explanation as to why a themable interface is more powerfull or easy to use than a consistent, static interface, I would love to read it.
Because it lets me work my way, not the way some jumped-up half-arsed self-appointed "human interface" guru thinks I should work. If I want the control key to be where caps-lock is or all my pull-down menus to be in a celtic script (which they are), or the function keys to switch between screens without having to hold down a control/apple/alt key as well then that's my business.
I set MY computer up the way I want it. I wouldn't give a tinker's cuss for Apple or MS's ability to design an interface and I don't feel any great need to wait at the table for the great thinkers at either to tell me that the middle button on my mouse is superfluous and that what I really need is a system that maximises time off the home keys.
RH's choise to theme KDE and Gnome similarly was inspired,
Inspired by stupidity and arrogance. I don't even use either; should I be arrested for interface abuse? Look: a heratic - he thinks differently!!!
Does anybody really believe that in, say, 20 years time, patents will still exist?
Given that the whole of US copyright has been distorted just in order to protect Mickey Mouse, I'm not optimistic that patent law will be reformed in this century.
This guy hardly touches the real problems of the system (obvious patents, business models, algorithms etc.) while wanting to make it harder on small inventors. Unless he's going to introduce near exponential charges (say 1 patent=$100, 10 = $10m) the extra cost won't even phase an Amazon or IBM so what's the point?
Why is it so hard for them to fix what's actually wrong with the system?
Is it still ironic if: * ABC News does a report on the new Warner Brothers movie? (ABC is owned by Disney)
If Disney constantly went around saying that they were going to crush WB and that WB couldn't hold a candle to Disney then, yes, it would be ironic if ABC carried news of a possibly important new support for Disney.
Slashdot Mirror
Actually, I can think of a few scenarios where Microsoft, or anyone else, could get RH into court over this by using a "tame" customer and a faked security breach.
The point is not that this is a likely scenario (which it certainly isn't) but that it should not be a possible scenario.
Slyarov ticked off Adobe (rightly so), and 2600.com ticked off the MPAA. Both plaintifs had valid claims to damages, and continuing damages without the current situation being rectified.
The MPAA never had a case against 2600, the DeCSS code is pretty well useless for copying DVD's (in comparison to the way they are really copied) and they only got the win by getting a judge that was prepared to ignore the evidence and the law to do his old bosses (that's right - the judge used to work for the MPAA's legal department) a favour. In the UK we call this "corruption" or being "a bent judge".
TWW
So, is your point that there is only one stupid/bent judge in the system or that there is no one who would have a vested interest in having RedHat slapped for breaking a stupid law? In either case, you're wrong.
TWW
Given how spineless university legal departments are these days, I'd say a bulk mailing of notices would be enough. The universities will do the rest.
TWW
Except, because they are not real licenses that you have to sign up to, and because everyone for some reason just agrees that they must have some legal weight (which they don't) then they can. Until people start saying on-mass that these EULA's are junk then they will find themselves in this position.
You can't on the one hand accept that something no one signs is a real license while also claiming that that thing is set in stone. What stone? Where is the authenticated signed wording that you agreed to? Where is your proof that you didn't agree to the new wording as easily as you agreed to the old wording?
TWW
It already did. If you are on a campus where anyone (not you - anyone) is working on patches to CVS you are not allowed to use Bitkeeper in the same way I am. What's not arbitary about that?
TWW
If you mean by "bad name" that they stand for the right of people that BUY a product to use it without fear of being hounded by an lawbreaking organisation such as Microsoft, or that they aim to defend the written law of fair use from being destroyed by bribes and corruption at the highest levels of the judicial system then I'm all for being called "Mudd".
Perhaps the OSS and free software community should consider a different approach to establishing their self-image and promoting their cause.
Perhaps you should consider your position as a marketing droid's wet dream. Perhaps you should consider your role as an instrument of corporate interferance in everyday life. Perhaps you should consider smelling the coffee.
It would appear that you have lost sight of what (not just) Microsoft are trying do here: they are trying to say "You paid us fair and square for our machine but we still own it and, in fact, we now own a little bit of you because we can tell you what (not) to do with our little box of tricks."
As a great man once said "Fuck that".
TWW
I've replaced the print server at our offices with my own spooler running under Linux. Works fine for months of up time. The trick is to install the Adobe Postscript generic printer driver on all the Windows machines so that they only send decent PS to the Linux box. It then uses Ghostscript + Gimp Print/Foomatic/Hp drivers etc to do the printing to the actual printer.
TWW
Today. What about next week when Larry reveals his great new paint program? Who died and let him decide what people can program?
Does MS have the right to prevent people using Excel to show that they're not stumping up dividends? Can GM tell you not to drive to anti-GM protests in your car?
If they really hated free software, they wouldn't be doing this.
Um, I think you'll find that they are doing this because they do hate free software, at least when it's free as in "free competition".
TWW
You quoted the post and asked me to clarify a point that was not in it ("How has RMS's message been counterproductive?" when I had said that he had become counter productive and had specifically said that his message had become lost). It was a reasonable assumption that you had not read the post carefully enough.
TWW
Read my post again; his message has not become counter-productive, his manner has. The whole irrational GUN/Linux argument has convinced a lot of people that anything RMS says can safely be ignored as the rantings of a crank. This is in turn hurting the GPL. The fact that anyone ever considered using BitKeeper is a sign that the message of why the GPL is so important to programmers working on projects like the kernel has been lost in the noise somewhere.
TWW
The real problem is that RMS may or may not be a prophet but he insists on acting like god and pissing off people just by his tone. The real message gets lost in the ensuing flamewar. Overall he has become counter-productive to his own aims
TWW
TWW
TWW
Would you suggest that the chip makers just "don't listen" to MS when they come ofter them? Do you think it would help them? I sure as hell don't.
The other thing to consider of course is that Microsoft is not doing this just because they're bored - they have a responsibility to the companies that make games for their console.
Like MS gives a toss about other companies. The only interest they have in the X-box is to make the X-box2 a platform for DRM; that's why they're so keen on stamping out mod chips: they're posturing to the guys in Hollywood that they can be trusted to keep user's sticky fingers out of their product when the time comes.
Kill them all, that's what I say.
Thanks for your insight.
It's the only language they understand.
TWW
Exactly: why should MS be allowed to tell you what you can do with YOUR applicance any more than a toaster maker can?
"Opening case may invalidate the warranty" is where MS's rights end in this case.
Kill them all, that's what I say.
TWW
TWW
Because it lets me work my way, not the way some jumped-up half-arsed self-appointed "human interface" guru thinks I should work. If I want the control key to be where caps-lock is or all my pull-down menus to be in a celtic script (which they are), or the function keys to switch between screens without having to hold down a control/apple/alt key as well then that's my business.
I set MY computer up the way I want it. I wouldn't give a tinker's cuss for Apple or MS's ability to design an interface and I don't feel any great need to wait at the table for the great thinkers at either to tell me that the middle button on my mouse is superfluous and that what I really need is a system that maximises time off the home keys.
RH's choise to theme KDE and Gnome similarly was inspired,
Inspired by stupidity and arrogance. I don't even use either; should I be arrested for interface abuse? Look: a heratic - he thinks differently!!!
TWW
That's what I was going to do too, but there isn't an actual reference on the front page (or even the FAQ) to the Happy Days story.
TWW
TWW
Given that the whole of US copyright has been distorted just in order to protect Mickey Mouse, I'm not optimistic that patent law will be reformed in this century.
TWW
That was in the book. Not much relation between that and the load of old crap that Jackson put on film.
TWW
I don't remember any character development in FotR. Was it during one of the fight scenes?
TWW
Why is it so hard for them to fix what's actually wrong with the system?
TWW
* ABC News does a report on the new Warner Brothers movie? (ABC is owned by Disney)
If Disney constantly went around saying that they were going to crush WB and that WB couldn't hold a candle to Disney then, yes, it would be ironic if ABC carried news of a possibly important new support for Disney.
TWW
TWW