Also colored glass and paper is almost never actually recycled.
Got any numbers to back that up? A quick google search or maybe even a trip to my local glass manufacturer puts the actual number for coloured glass in the 80% range. That is 80% of glass collected through recycling ends up actually recycled.
Likewise the paper figures are in the >70% range, and the number of paper mills that actually produce products with 0% recycled content is incredibly low these days.
Wrong. The devices you are talking to are little computers in unto themselves. They are designed to be hot swappable- *after* they've been told to stop doing the work they have queued up, and to finish up any background tasks required for the medium. There's a reason clicking that little eject button de-enumerates the USB device.
Right back at you. Those "background tasks" finish in milliseconds and do not sit there in some mythical long idle queue waiting for the OS to signal that the USB driver has been unloaded.
You're still misusing the device as the manufacturer and protocols dictate
Actually I'm using the device entirely as designed. "Optimised for quick disconnect" is such for a reason. No need to wait 10 seconds. As I said with write-caching disabled the time between being given the 100% complete signal and you actually yanking is milliseconds for the device to actually finish what its doing. About the only risk you still have is that an application actively has a file open. At that point yanking will net you a lovely error message.
You see, in the early days this shit was actually a problem. Slow wear leveling algorithms, write caching, poor USB drivers, generally poor (in the windows world) handling of hot-swappable hardware, filesystems that would fall over if you look at them the wrong way, it all was very real 20 years ago. Then people realised that something needed to be done, and did something about it.
As the manufacturer intended? The modern manufacturer intends a device to be connected to a fallible bus by idiots. They expect USB sticks to have a bundle of keys dangling off them and to randomly plop out. They expect cheap arse Chinese USB hubs to not provide the required power or report to the OS correctly. They expect removable drives to be used by kids on a bed when their friends come and jump on it. In the past 20 years we have seen very actively manufacturers designing devices to counteract the very real abuse they get. Software writers do too.
I am using the device exactly as the manufacturer intended, and you'd need to actively go out of your way to experience silent data loss as a result. Like using your right blinker and then turning left without giving way to a car that had no idea what you were doing.
No. Get it down, it's called surviving. Just because everything has externalities doesn't mean we shouldn't study them and explore how to minimise the negative impact of those externalities.
None of that precludes biking to get said food. I mean I used to think it did, but then I saw some guy taking a 3x4 KALLAX home from Ikea on the front of his bike and that was my wakeup call to never use my car in my own city again.
It did feel weird though that day when they had a special on toilet paper at the shops and I bought 72 rolls. We also went for a BBQ in the park around 7km away the other day. I had a Weber and a 15kg gas bottle on my bike, and my girlfriend had a giant esky with all the food and drink on the front and my sister sitting on the back.
Nope, just well through through and risk assessed.
As if whether or not the OS cache is write-through or write-back is the only factor in play.
It is the dominant factor for any write that isn't presented to the user. Any other write is typically shown via a progress bar and if those writes fail you get an error message. Try it sometime. Yank that drive after your copy is done and bask in the glory that no data has been lost. If you're actively using an application than the yank also results in an error message giving you the opportunity to save the file again.
I bet you're one of those assholes who doesn't think they need a blinker.
Why would you think that? The blinker serves a very real safety purpose of alerting other drivers to what you are doing. Incidentally if I'm on a country road by myself with no one in sight I don't use the blinkers either. It's just as pointless as ejecting a drive. Instantly labeling people who think about the application of what they are doing as "arseholes" is far more of a reflection on you than the people you label.
And this is a case of you reviewing a 20 year old assumption based on the incorrect assumption that you are qualified to review it. Let me give you a tip- you're not.
LOL okay mate we'll go with your crazy doom and gloom scenarios. Maybe, if you're really lucky then one day you can come and say I told you so, but 17 years of no dataloss makes anything you say at all completely irrelevant as you have utterly failed to apply a risk assessment to your actions.
And you'll still be screwed after the device is safely removed. By the way the internal cache of the USB stick is tiny. We're talking milliseconds for this process to finish.
AND lets me do sata drives and things that normally don't show up in the windows eject.
This is the great irony. The things that show up in the Windows Eject are also the things that are safest to simply yank because they have write caching disabled. The same cannot be said about SATA drives where you may have absolutely no idea if data has been committed to disk or not.
No we don't. We haven't for the past 17 years. File operations are completely the second they are completed on removable drives. Only internal drives do agressive performance optimisations like write caching that creates a disconnect between the state of the write and what is shown to the user.
The UI's representation of it shows when the UI is done with the transfer, but that does not necessarily mean that the OS is finished with the transfer.
What is this a post from the 90s? OSes handle external drives differently from your internal HDDs. write caching is disabled and changes are instantly committed to disk without delay. Hitting the 100% point and yanking the drive has been safe for data since Windows XP was released.
Safe eject/removal is the only way to guarantee that file buffers are flushed and metadata is in a consistent state.
If you're OK with losing files, or having chunks of your free space marked as occupied, then don't use safe eject.
I'm not OK with getting hit by a car, yet I still J-walk. Likewise just because you yank the drive doesn't mean you will lose data. This was an issue back in the 90s when OSes write cached on removable drives, but seriously if you're not mid-write to the device then yank away. If you are mid-write you'll get an error message and typically get the opportunity to put the drive back in and go again.
Yes I do it all the time. Bottom line is modern OSes don't cache writes on removable drives so when your file copy operation is finished just yank that cable out and move on with your life.
The only risk you have is yanking in the middle of an active write and that procedure will net you a lovely error message that a write operation has failed, usually "System cannot find the file specified."
You won't be silently missing parts of your file system. Oh unless you are using Windows 2000. Also why is your Linux caching writes on removable drives? Do you hate your data that much?
That a bunch of "nerds" can't figure this out after all the years
The bunch of nerds are stuck in the past not realising that for the past 17 years the most popular OS in existence has disabled write caching on removable drives by default and you can yank away as much as you want.
It's not a case of not figuring it out, it's a case of not reviewing a 20 year old assumption.
While you are technically correct, all of this happens before a write operation is completed in Windows. When that little bar hits the 100% mark you can happily yank away without any concern for your data.
No, it tells you after the fact “you shouldn’t have done that”, which is something quite different than not letting you do it in the first place.
Err no it tells you before the fact and then doesn't proceed:
"Problems Ejecting #########. Windows is unable to stop the device ########. Don't remove this device whilit is still in use. Close any programs using this device and then remove it."
(And because it's a safe operation I just did it mid copy right now so I could post this error message here verbatim to let you know how wrong you are). Please don't speak so authoritatively on something so easily disproven.
Most modern programs aren't made for power users, and tend to not present errors that a user cannot be expected to understand the impact of or do anything about.
Try yanking a drive mid write and see if you don't understand the system error that comes up. It will be something about a "The system cannot find the drive specified"
If a background file that you yourself didn't create cannot be written to, for example, chances are that you'll see nothing.
Nope, you will ALWAYS get an error if a write fails due to hardware issues. Typically it's a Windows error message and nothing to do with any application. Bottom line is you can't miss when a write fail operation fails on a windows machine.
You're only insulting your own intelligence here. Remind us (and by us I mean you) who's the current head of the CIA? How many high level politicians have openly called for Assange's assassination?
Get a grip man. At this point I'm actively looking forward to the absolutely nothing that will happen to him, not that I think that will stop any of you conspiracy nuts. But at least one conspiracy nut will be properly affected. Assange will have spent years in house arrest for nothing.
Slashdot Mirror
Also colored glass and paper is almost never actually recycled.
Got any numbers to back that up? A quick google search or maybe even a trip to my local glass manufacturer puts the actual number for coloured glass in the 80% range. That is 80% of glass collected through recycling ends up actually recycled.
Likewise the paper figures are in the >70% range, and the number of paper mills that actually produce products with 0% recycled content is incredibly low these days.
Clearly, Australia needs to clap back before the Internet gets broken.
If you've ever used the internet in Australia you'll realise that ship has sailed.
Wrong.
The devices you are talking to are little computers in unto themselves. They are designed to be hot swappable- *after* they've been told to stop doing the work they have queued up, and to finish up any background tasks required for the medium. There's a reason clicking that little eject button de-enumerates the USB device.
Right back at you. Those "background tasks" finish in milliseconds and do not sit there in some mythical long idle queue waiting for the OS to signal that the USB driver has been unloaded.
You're still misusing the device as the manufacturer and protocols dictate
Actually I'm using the device entirely as designed. "Optimised for quick disconnect" is such for a reason. No need to wait 10 seconds. As I said with write-caching disabled the time between being given the 100% complete signal and you actually yanking is milliseconds for the device to actually finish what its doing. About the only risk you still have is that an application actively has a file open. At that point yanking will net you a lovely error message.
You see, in the early days this shit was actually a problem. Slow wear leveling algorithms, write caching, poor USB drivers, generally poor (in the windows world) handling of hot-swappable hardware, filesystems that would fall over if you look at them the wrong way, it all was very real 20 years ago. Then people realised that something needed to be done, and did something about it.
As the manufacturer intended? The modern manufacturer intends a device to be connected to a fallible bus by idiots. They expect USB sticks to have a bundle of keys dangling off them and to randomly plop out. They expect cheap arse Chinese USB hubs to not provide the required power or report to the OS correctly. They expect removable drives to be used by kids on a bed when their friends come and jump on it. In the past 20 years we have seen very actively manufacturers designing devices to counteract the very real abuse they get. Software writers do too.
I am using the device exactly as the manufacturer intended, and you'd need to actively go out of your way to experience silent data loss as a result. Like using your right blinker and then turning left without giving way to a car that had no idea what you were doing.
(7) No close button should ever be visible unless you hover over it.
I'm sure Microsoft patented that feature for Sharepoint / Office 365.
Get over with it, it's called modern living.
No. Get it down, it's called surviving. Just because everything has externalities doesn't mean we shouldn't study them and explore how to minimise the negative impact of those externalities.
None of that precludes biking to get said food. I mean I used to think it did, but then I saw some guy taking a 3x4 KALLAX home from Ikea on the front of his bike and that was my wakeup call to never use my car in my own city again.
It did feel weird though that day when they had a special on toilet paper at the shops and I bought 72 rolls. We also went for a BBQ in the park around 7km away the other day. I had a Weber and a 15kg gas bottle on my bike, and my girlfriend had a giant esky with all the food and drink on the front and my sister sitting on the back.
Prosumer tip: watch the switch manufacturer End-of-Life notices and pick up the switches at fire sale prices as everyone tries to dump their supply
I hear there's a lot of CISCO gear going cheap.
What exactly is this magical firewall you speak of?
An ultra secure CISCO one of course!
Your ignorance is terrifying.
Nope, just well through through and risk assessed.
As if whether or not the OS cache is write-through or write-back is the only factor in play.
It is the dominant factor for any write that isn't presented to the user. Any other write is typically shown via a progress bar and if those writes fail you get an error message. Try it sometime. Yank that drive after your copy is done and bask in the glory that no data has been lost. If you're actively using an application than the yank also results in an error message giving you the opportunity to save the file again.
I bet you're one of those assholes who doesn't think they need a blinker.
Why would you think that? The blinker serves a very real safety purpose of alerting other drivers to what you are doing. Incidentally if I'm on a country road by myself with no one in sight I don't use the blinkers either. It's just as pointless as ejecting a drive. Instantly labeling people who think about the application of what they are doing as "arseholes" is far more of a reflection on you than the people you label.
And this is a case of you reviewing a 20 year old assumption based on the incorrect assumption that you are qualified to review it. Let me give you a tip- you're not.
LOL okay mate we'll go with your crazy doom and gloom scenarios. Maybe, if you're really lucky then one day you can come and say I told you so, but 17 years of no dataloss makes anything you say at all completely irrelevant as you have utterly failed to apply a risk assessment to your actions.
And you'll still be screwed after the device is safely removed. By the way the internal cache of the USB stick is tiny. We're talking milliseconds for this process to finish.
Yes but all of that is completely irrelevant to the discussion since safely remove device does not take that into account.
Moreso that NetBSD is known as the OS that'll run on anything ... as long as it's not installed on a USB 3.0 drive that is :)
The computer can't know. This can change in an instant.
You need to be careful of cars, so don't ever cross a road. So just use tunnels.
AND lets me do sata drives and things that normally don't show up in the windows eject.
This is the great irony. The things that show up in the Windows Eject are also the things that are safest to simply yank because they have write caching disabled. The same cannot be said about SATA drives where you may have absolutely no idea if data has been committed to disk or not.
Today we take those for granted,
No we don't. We haven't for the past 17 years. File operations are completely the second they are completed on removable drives. Only internal drives do agressive performance optimisations like write caching that creates a disconnect between the state of the write and what is shown to the user.
The UI's representation of it shows when the UI is done with the transfer, but that does not necessarily mean that the OS is finished with the transfer.
What is this a post from the 90s? OSes handle external drives differently from your internal HDDs. write caching is disabled and changes are instantly committed to disk without delay. Hitting the 100% point and yanking the drive has been safe for data since Windows XP was released.
Safe eject/removal is the only way to guarantee that file buffers are flushed and metadata is in a consistent state.
If you're OK with losing files, or having chunks of your free space marked as occupied, then don't use safe eject.
I'm not OK with getting hit by a car, yet I still J-walk. Likewise just because you yank the drive doesn't mean you will lose data. This was an issue back in the 90s when OSes write cached on removable drives, but seriously if you're not mid-write to the device then yank away. If you are mid-write you'll get an error message and typically get the opportunity to put the drive back in and go again.
Ever think of testing this for yourself?
Yes I do it all the time. Bottom line is modern OSes don't cache writes on removable drives so when your file copy operation is finished just yank that cable out and move on with your life.
The only risk you have is yanking in the middle of an active write and that procedure will net you a lovely error message that a write operation has failed, usually "System cannot find the file specified."
You won't be silently missing parts of your file system. Oh unless you are using Windows 2000. Also why is your Linux caching writes on removable drives? Do you hate your data that much?
That a bunch of "nerds" can't figure this out after all the years
The bunch of nerds are stuck in the past not realising that for the past 17 years the most popular OS in existence has disabled write caching on removable drives by default and you can yank away as much as you want.
It's not a case of not figuring it out, it's a case of not reviewing a 20 year old assumption.
While you are technically correct, all of this happens before a write operation is completed in Windows. When that little bar hits the 100% mark you can happily yank away without any concern for your data.
No, it tells you after the fact “you shouldn’t have done that”, which is something quite different than not letting you do it in the first place.
Err no it tells you before the fact and then doesn't proceed:
"Problems Ejecting #########. Windows is unable to stop the device ########. Don't remove this device whilit is still in use. Close any programs using this device and then remove it."
(And because it's a safe operation I just did it mid copy right now so I could post this error message here verbatim to let you know how wrong you are). Please don't speak so authoritatively on something so easily disproven.
Most modern programs aren't made for power users, and tend to not present errors that a user cannot be expected to understand the impact of or do anything about.
Try yanking a drive mid write and see if you don't understand the system error that comes up. It will be something about a "The system cannot find the drive specified"
If a background file that you yourself didn't create cannot be written to, for example, chances are that you'll see nothing.
Nope, you will ALWAYS get an error if a write fails due to hardware issues. Typically it's a Windows error message and nothing to do with any application. Bottom line is you can't miss when a write fail operation fails on a windows machine.
followed by several dialog boxes that need clicking
Err no. I haven't unmounted a disk in a good 10 years and the only time I ever see that message is drives that I then play with in Linux.
You're only insulting your own intelligence here. Remind us (and by us I mean you) who's the current head of the CIA? How many high level politicians have openly called for Assange's assassination?
Get a grip man. At this point I'm actively looking forward to the absolutely nothing that will happen to him, not that I think that will stop any of you conspiracy nuts. But at least one conspiracy nut will be properly affected. Assange will have spent years in house arrest for nothing.