Yes. Outside the IT crowd concerned for privacy there's a billion plus people out there who don't give a crap about that and see instead the functionality that it provides.
Given the level of sophistication that came out of Stuxnet showed that it was state sponsored, I'd say about as sick in the head as any modern government or military.
Now I'm going to hide before a USA drone drops a missile in my livingroom without due process. Wouldn't be the first time.
So why are all the major breaches private or public companies?
When was the last time someone hacked the IRS and stole everyone's social security numbers? They didn't. Equifax gave all that data away.
There are very easy answers to that despite the strawman you put up: There's far more companies dealing with far more sensitive information in the world than there are governments.
As to why this is a strawman it's because you missed the fundamental comparison I made. Specifically point b) around core competence. Equifax's core competence is not providing secure network services, and thus comparing them to a cloud service provider is like comparing my car to a intercontinental freight liner.
I do worry. Stuxnet targeted a PLC / control system in an attempt to push product off spec.
This was an attack on a Safety Instrumented System which implies that it was an attempt to really blow something up.
I also worry further because while the Siemens S7 / Stuxnet was an inside job delivered via USB key, this here talks about remote access to an engineering station which implies a whole new level of incompetence on a far more important system.
This is actually quite interesting. It looks like the remote access was to the engineering workstation which by its very nature needs to be networked with the control system. This doesn't sound like some vendor's bullshit idea but rather that the plant engineers had no idea what they were doing. Also since this is an SIS system, there's no reason for it to require a remote access and any of your talk on fancy apps and what not doesn't really apply.
There are far more interesting things under here as well, either: a) write access was enabled via the keyswitch on the Tricon chassis which is a really stupid thing to do permanently, or b) far worse: the keyswitch doesn't prevent writing to the program space and is just a trigger for the software not to proceed. This would be a huge failing, one that would likely get TÜV to strip their certification against the IEC standard for this.
Watching keenly. We've got these systems everywhere.
Tell it to my capped internet connection which conveniently excluded the ISP's own movie service. Tell it to the game servers I ran which conveniently pinged slower than the ISP provided ones despite being co-located at their facility Tell it to my mobile phone provider who decided that Facebook is free to use locking out smaller entrants into the market by charging customers to access them via a ludicrously low datacap.
"Could" is not speculative or theoretical. It translates to: "can now go back to what they were doing previously"
Unless you're the largest organisation in the country - the Government. Then you should have the resources to run your own shit. You shouldn't have to farm out your core services, with all the sensitive data that goes with it, to a third party.
Except that governments almost universally: a) don't attract the best tallent b) don't develop strong core competencies in any field c) are generally inefficient due to lack of fiscal accoutnability d) do everything as a drain on the tax payer, where this would be an opportunity to refund some tax payers
I CAN maintain my own car. Just because I can though doesn't mean it is the most sensible thing to do.
No it's pretty much exactly as he said. Sony Pictures reported a Net Loss of over $900mil last year. Now admittedly that was due in part to close to a $1bn writedown in its movie business (which is itself a reflection of profitability) but a movie studio making less than $50m is virtually unheard of. Of course Sony's 4 big movies that year were a huge flop grossing some $350m. For comparison Spectre alone grossed over $1bn the year before.
Sony spent the best part of this year justifying to shareholders and the media why it isn't selling off the drain on its profits.
In order to make a real change, alternative energy HAS TO ACTUALLY MAKE ECONOMIC SENSE.
It already does make economic sense. Long-term macro-economic sense. The problem is that we don't think in this way, only "what is the best possible money I can make before I bail out of this". That is in the grand scheme short term and very localised.
NOTHING our industry currently does makes this same kind of sense. We already have an incredible amount of regulations, we already have compliance related costs, and all of these comes from the governments in the interest of the general population at the expense of the enrichment of each specific working entity. Such a rule would be perfectly in line with that as well as not being unexpected in an industry that already needs to follow a long string of town-planning based requirements.
India isn't going to switch from coal to solar until solar is cheaper.
Ever hear a high voltage power line insulator sizzle when it's raining?
I'm quite sure that none of the powerline broadband proposals have ever even remotely considered using this as a backbone to transmit data across the country. And if the local LV power line outside is making that noise, stay the hell away from it and report it to your utility provider as quickly as possible.
Yeah. Someone who's probably better at maintaining that computer. A computer which is likely more redundant and better equipped to handle a wide variety of failure scenarios than mine ever will be.
There's no such thing as a car garage, it's just giving your car to someone else to maintain using someone else's tools.
What you just said is that there should be a law requiring people to be smart. Think about that for a moment. The vast majority of security and stability issues have been the result of people doing stupid stuff, or skimping on stuff. The government ultimately is made of people, and stupid people can exist at every level (including the top).
There's no law to fix that.
As I posted earlier, I could probably fix my own car too, but rather I outsource that job to an expert.
However, the idea that this will improve security is laughable.
Why? The thing about using someone else's computer is that this other person is likely a lot better at managing that computer than I will be. Extrapolating to corporations: How many direct attacks on cloud vendors have resulted in a large breach of critical information? Compare those figures to breaches on people privately controlling their own infrastructure.
I probably could repair my own car as well, but I chose to pay an expert to do it.
Not crying for the owners of this junk. He's indeed doing the Internet a service...
I am. Why should the end user pay for a manufacturer's.... I dare not call it a mistake. The world is full of people with wide skillsets in wide areas. You can't expect everyone to be an expert on everything. There are very few people out there with the capability of analysing their own network security.
At the very least these things better be covered by warranty, or fit for service laws.
No. As said you vastly overestimate your importance. As a global buying power your total number may seem significant, but the vast majority of your buying power ends up being a dumping ground for a small segment of goods: cheap shit which effects only a few S-E Asian countries.
But really all of that is quite irrelevant and doesn't at all change my original post. If you consider yourself such a huge buying power, just imagine what the country will think when their own government decides to raise the cost of all that dumping across the board. Who bares that cost? The consumer. Retaliatory tariffs only work if there is an alternative tariff free source. The scenario is that all the other countries unite against USA stupidity, and the retaliation would in the end only be another tax on consumers depressing the USA's own economy.
Also as for shrieking terror? I assume you get your news from Fox? In most of the world it was met with dumbfounded confusion, like the kind you have when you see someone standing on a building threatening to jump.
You dismiss too soon. The GP's comment was with respect to an economy changing crash in a bubble. To do that you need far more debt than a couple of idiots mortgaging their houses. Bitcoin could go to $0 tomorrow and much of the world won't notice.
The original comment is spot on, there just isn't enough locked up debt invested in this to matter.
And what are they going to do when we enact retaliatory tariffs, and suddenly they can't dump their goods on our market any more? They'll be screwed.
You vastly over-estimate your market and importance. Just like Trump does, and just like the British did before they tried to exercise that power at a negotiation table which even the most pro-brexiters realise has turned into a trainwreak.
What are we going to do when you impose tariffs on us? Nothing. You'll reverse them when you own constituents start complaining about the rising cost and inflation due the government putting a price on the trade deficit you've slowly built up over the years.
Something that fits in a handbag is the same as something weighing 1.5tonnes? Did you bump your head recently? Maybe time for a checkup at the hospital.
hahahahaha. Yeah a non-relevant line attached to a bill dealing with funding of national defense on the threat of a shutdown if it doesn't passes is totally legitimate.
You haven't drunk koolaid mate, you've been taking LSD and magic mushrooms to come up with that line.
You should be downmodded. The idea that maturity comes at some arbitrary age is absurd. Only the government tries to make an easy line somewhere to suit itself on various issues of the day. Parents on the other hand have the ability to observe the development of their children and can decide based on evidence when they thing their child should be allowed to have a phone.
The situation of a school still calls for a ban, in the school.
Slashdot Mirror
Yes. Outside the IT crowd concerned for privacy there's a billion plus people out there who don't give a crap about that and see instead the functionality that it provides.
Because people are willing to buy them?
Err that could be said for every popular messaging service and social network. The only ones immune to it were those without any users.
Given the level of sophistication that came out of Stuxnet showed that it was state sponsored, I'd say about as sick in the head as any modern government or military.
Now I'm going to hide before a USA drone drops a missile in my livingroom without due process. Wouldn't be the first time.
So why are all the major breaches private or public companies?
When was the last time someone hacked the IRS and stole everyone's social security numbers?
They didn't. Equifax gave all that data away.
There are very easy answers to that despite the strawman you put up: There's far more companies dealing with far more sensitive information in the world than there are governments.
As to why this is a strawman it's because you missed the fundamental comparison I made. Specifically point b) around core competence. Equifax's core competence is not providing secure network services, and thus comparing them to a cloud service provider is like comparing my car to a intercontinental freight liner.
I do worry. Stuxnet targeted a PLC / control system in an attempt to push product off spec.
This was an attack on a Safety Instrumented System which implies that it was an attempt to really blow something up.
I also worry further because while the Siemens S7 / Stuxnet was an inside job delivered via USB key, this here talks about remote access to an engineering station which implies a whole new level of incompetence on a far more important system.
This is actually quite interesting. It looks like the remote access was to the engineering workstation which by its very nature needs to be networked with the control system. This doesn't sound like some vendor's bullshit idea but rather that the plant engineers had no idea what they were doing. Also since this is an SIS system, there's no reason for it to require a remote access and any of your talk on fancy apps and what not doesn't really apply.
There are far more interesting things under here as well, either:
a) write access was enabled via the keyswitch on the Tricon chassis which is a really stupid thing to do permanently, or
b) far worse: the keyswitch doesn't prevent writing to the program space and is just a trigger for the software not to proceed. This would be a huge failing, one that would likely get TÜV to strip their certification against the IEC standard for this.
Watching keenly. We've got these systems everywhere.
Could is a very speculative word.
Tell it to my capped internet connection which conveniently excluded the ISP's own movie service.
Tell it to the game servers I ran which conveniently pinged slower than the ISP provided ones despite being co-located at their facility
Tell it to my mobile phone provider who decided that Facebook is free to use locking out smaller entrants into the market by charging customers to access them via a ludicrously low datacap.
"Could" is not speculative or theoretical. It translates to: "can now go back to what they were doing previously"
And nothing of value was lost.
Unless you're the largest organisation in the country - the Government.
Then you should have the resources to run your own shit. You shouldn't have to farm out your core services, with all the sensitive data that goes with it, to a third party.
Except that governments almost universally:
a) don't attract the best tallent
b) don't develop strong core competencies in any field
c) are generally inefficient due to lack of fiscal accoutnability
d) do everything as a drain on the tax payer, where this would be an opportunity to refund some tax payers
I CAN maintain my own car. Just because I can though doesn't mean it is the most sensible thing to do.
No it's pretty much exactly as he said. Sony Pictures reported a Net Loss of over $900mil last year. Now admittedly that was due in part to close to a $1bn writedown in its movie business (which is itself a reflection of profitability) but a movie studio making less than $50m is virtually unheard of. Of course Sony's 4 big movies that year were a huge flop grossing some $350m. For comparison Spectre alone grossed over $1bn the year before.
Sony spent the best part of this year justifying to shareholders and the media why it isn't selling off the drain on its profits.
In order to make a real change, alternative energy HAS TO ACTUALLY MAKE ECONOMIC SENSE.
It already does make economic sense. Long-term macro-economic sense.
The problem is that we don't think in this way, only "what is the best possible money I can make before I bail out of this". That is in the grand scheme short term and very localised.
NOTHING our industry currently does makes this same kind of sense. We already have an incredible amount of regulations, we already have compliance related costs, and all of these comes from the governments in the interest of the general population at the expense of the enrichment of each specific working entity. Such a rule would be perfectly in line with that as well as not being unexpected in an industry that already needs to follow a long string of town-planning based requirements.
India isn't going to switch from coal to solar until solar is cheaper.
I'm actually really glad you mentioned India: https://economictimes.indiatim...
This comment is a perfect example of why the human race will only endure through governmental regulation.
Though it was interesting calling out SJWs while at the same time attempting to label yourself as the most self-centred prick on the net.
Your freedom ends where mine begins, and that includes you not fucking up the world we live in.
You wonder why there's not been a WWIII? Internet porn.
Suddenly all the angst in North Korea and all the instability in poor countries without broadband makes perfect sense.
Ever hear a high voltage power line insulator sizzle when it's raining?
I'm quite sure that none of the powerline broadband proposals have ever even remotely considered using this as a backbone to transmit data across the country. And if the local LV power line outside is making that noise, stay the hell away from it and report it to your utility provider as quickly as possible.
It's just using someone else's computer.
Yeah. Someone who's probably better at maintaining that computer. A computer which is likely more redundant and better equipped to handle a wide variety of failure scenarios than mine ever will be.
There's no such thing as a car garage, it's just giving your car to someone else to maintain using someone else's tools.
What you just said is that there should be a law requiring people to be smart. Think about that for a moment. The vast majority of security and stability issues have been the result of people doing stupid stuff, or skimping on stuff. The government ultimately is made of people, and stupid people can exist at every level (including the top).
There's no law to fix that.
As I posted earlier, I could probably fix my own car too, but rather I outsource that job to an expert.
However, the idea that this will improve security is laughable.
Why? The thing about using someone else's computer is that this other person is likely a lot better at managing that computer than I will be. Extrapolating to corporations: How many direct attacks on cloud vendors have resulted in a large breach of critical information? Compare those figures to breaches on people privately controlling their own infrastructure.
I probably could repair my own car as well, but I chose to pay an expert to do it.
Not crying for the owners of this junk. He's indeed doing the Internet a service...
I am. Why should the end user pay for a manufacturer's .... I dare not call it a mistake. The world is full of people with wide skillsets in wide areas. You can't expect everyone to be an expert on everything. There are very few people out there with the capability of analysing their own network security.
At the very least these things better be covered by warranty, or fit for service laws.
No. As said you vastly overestimate your importance. As a global buying power your total number may seem significant, but the vast majority of your buying power ends up being a dumping ground for a small segment of goods: cheap shit which effects only a few S-E Asian countries.
But really all of that is quite irrelevant and doesn't at all change my original post. If you consider yourself such a huge buying power, just imagine what the country will think when their own government decides to raise the cost of all that dumping across the board. Who bares that cost? The consumer. Retaliatory tariffs only work if there is an alternative tariff free source. The scenario is that all the other countries unite against USA stupidity, and the retaliation would in the end only be another tax on consumers depressing the USA's own economy.
Also as for shrieking terror? I assume you get your news from Fox? In most of the world it was met with dumbfounded confusion, like the kind you have when you see someone standing on a building threatening to jump.
You dismiss too soon. The GP's comment was with respect to an economy changing crash in a bubble. To do that you need far more debt than a couple of idiots mortgaging their houses. Bitcoin could go to $0 tomorrow and much of the world won't notice.
The original comment is spot on, there just isn't enough locked up debt invested in this to matter.
And what are they going to do when we enact retaliatory tariffs, and suddenly they can't dump their goods on our market any more? They'll be screwed.
You vastly over-estimate your market and importance. Just like Trump does, and just like the British did before they tried to exercise that power at a negotiation table which even the most pro-brexiters realise has turned into a trainwreak.
What are we going to do when you impose tariffs on us? Nothing. You'll reverse them when you own constituents start complaining about the rising cost and inflation due the government putting a price on the trade deficit you've slowly built up over the years.
Probably the same as when they bring their cars
Something that fits in a handbag is the same as something weighing 1.5tonnes? Did you bump your head recently? Maybe time for a checkup at the hospital.
At least it was a legitimate process this time.
hahahahaha. Yeah a non-relevant line attached to a bill dealing with funding of national defense on the threat of a shutdown if it doesn't passes is totally legitimate.
You haven't drunk koolaid mate, you've been taking LSD and magic mushrooms to come up with that line.
You should be downmodded. The idea that maturity comes at some arbitrary age is absurd. Only the government tries to make an easy line somewhere to suit itself on various issues of the day. Parents on the other hand have the ability to observe the development of their children and can decide based on evidence when they thing their child should be allowed to have a phone.
The situation of a school still calls for a ban, in the school.