well, ReplayTv has some very cool networking features and auto-detec commercial skip taht tivo lacks the backbone to implement (and 3rd party apps/hax)... it's a shame it's NOT the market leader.
I think that DIY PVR is NOT for everyone... but it's really not THAT hard. How long ago did you attempt your myth/freevo build? The community/technology has come a long way since then, most likely...
I liken it back to the early days of MAME cabinet building... you had to hack keyboard matrices and solder like crazy, now you can get a ready made encoder with screw on terminals, prebuilt harness and plug and play... back in my day, we built MAME cabinets in the snow, up hill, both ways... but i digress...
Do you consider yourself proficient in linux? I think for the first timer, using linux to build a PVR can add to the learning curve (I suggest knoppmyth for folks new to linux but want to try it for their pvr setup)... there are window solutions (even commercial ones - yech ) that are brain dead simple to configure/setup/and approach tivo-esque usability without all the forthcoming messy DRM/restrictions/updates inthe middle of the night to remove features =)
There's more than one way to skin the homebrew PVR cat... keep the PC out of the living room. Use a MediaMVP (or other network streaming device that is quiet/small/sexy) or a Mod'ed Xbox as a client, keep the noisey uber-server in the basement/closet/other room.
Although a Tivo can be cheaper, even considering lifetime subscription... it's more about control/creativity than anything financial.
BTW, don't like a computer case looks? Mod it! A buddy of mine modded a satellite case to be his PVR viva la dremel! c'mon this is/. we don't buy our gaming PC's from Alienware, we build them custom (right?)
It can't be *THAT* hard to shlop knoppmyth and a pvr250 into a spare PC to get going, but the devil is certainly in the details/tweaks, that I can atest too =)
besides the pvr350 part of your setup (which has it's own quirks), did you consider checking out knoppmyth to potentially cut down on the build/install time?
*shrug* FWIW there are other "off the shelf" commercial (and free) 3rd party PVR/htpc software solutions out there... although they are on the *gasp* windows platform *ducks*... I liked SageTV... BeyondTV has been getting good reviews... and GBPVR is very full featured, FREE as in beer (not source), and is pretty cool overall. There's a lesser known HTPC solution that's open source for windoze Media Portal... I've got a growing list of PVR/HTPC links here
Also there are other linux based OSS pvr solutions besides myth/knoppmyth... like freevo, dave and dina multimedia project, and a few others I can't recall...
You won't necessarly have a problem when you switch to digital cable... you'd do the same thing a TiVo user does... You'd use an IR blaster (or a serial cable if you have a motrolla 2k dig cable box that hasn't been crippled by your cable company)
The IR blaster will be controlled by your mythbox... the ir blaster will simulate your digital cable boxes remote control presses to change teh channel at the appropriate times to record the shows you want... you just pipe the output via svideo or composite into your capture/tuner card =)
All the more reason to Build your own PVR (yes it's my site and a blatant plug, but it's relevant)
Yes it can be more expensive than buying a TiVo down at Fry's/Best Buy, but you get more control over your content, at least until the big bad broadcast flag comes to town in July '05. Oh, and no monthly fees =)
*shrug* YMMV, and I do love my TiVo except for when I want to move content off it...
I love my TiVo.... but... I like the control and freedom to move content around without any drm sillyness...
I know somoone praised automagic patching by tivo as a positive... I'd argue it can be a negative... like if they implement a feature or restriction you don't agree with you are powerless (well without delving into grey/black arts) to do anything about it... ask the time warner customers in NY who's DVR update fux0red their DVRs
(actually in the past didn't directtv sent an update that went awry and the "fix" was new hardware... or am i confused)....
*Shrug* Tivo's are now cheap (except service costs), easy to use out of the box, and just work...
but, me, I prefer to have a little more control and flexibility while giving me a geek project to work on... =)
but if it doesn't *work* that's $288 bucks out the window...
Granted, there's definitely an early adopter surcharge, just like most emerging technologies, but presumably if you want a device that works the HD tivo extra duckets might be worth it to you...
especially if you consider all the other dough the guy in the original article spent, 1k vs 5/month isn't probably an issue as far as equipment costs.
One of the reasons i'm so into building my own PVR (SDTV and HDTV), is the control over the ports/content (prior to broadcast flag that is)... how stupid is it to get an HDTV STB with DVI/etc disabled?! grrr...
The HDTV STB (and TV) folks have to do a better job on average of dealing with SDTV display on high res HDTV TV's... If that means upscaling, black boxing, whatever... if you spend X amount of grand on a fancy HDTV, your SDTV stuff shouldn't look worse IMHO.
I dont' think so much that "HDTV" persay isn't ready for primetime... it's that the junk/rushed DVR set top boxes being pushed out by the cable companies aren't up to snuff...
The pushing of higher rez digital TV content over the cable line isn't *that* hard/different, nor is the decoding/decrypting of it. I gotta think the PVR/set top box quality is the issue here NOT the transmission of the HDTV or HDTV content itself...
"You assume that this would be done in the US. I hate it when somebody makes a point and then somebody brings up some act like that as though it affects everyone on the planet when it doesn't, it affects you Americans ONLY"
I assume nothing... see my other points in this topic, where I point out frequently (US)...
It is interesting to note that DVDjon/DeCSSjon was NOT an american and still got into hot water...
If you watch content that originates from US/hollywood/etc... sooner or later this will effect you, whether or not US laws applies directly to you, some US inpsired asanine law could come to a country near you =)
In short, other country's laws don't exist in a vaccuum.
"it seems that if there is any way to get a signal to your computer, a free, open source software program could render it - and no laws would be broken."
well going from digital to analog to re-encode back to digital, is less than ideal...
presumably the digital outs on these BF'd devices won't let you suck down the DRM'd content on to a PC/mac/etc...
But then again, even you went the analog "ripping" route... some sort of evil macrovision type of crap will surface... (ever try to make a backup of a DVD onto a VCR?)
"This is the wrong way to get around this problem. I say a boycott after the deadline would be far more effective. If nobody purchased a tv tuner after the deadline, that would speak volumes. It would have be a very organized protest, but with enough attention, it could work."
I couldn't disagree more. Stop it now.
What you propose will only hurt the manufacturers (you think THEY want to implement this crap?).
Stop the boneheads in the FCC being influenced by the MPAA/etc lobby before they do more damage.
Who cares if Janet shows her nipple on the half-time show, if we won't be allowed to pause and rewind and take screen caps of it?
" By 1:00AM on July 1st someone will have hacked it."
And between the DMCA and INDUCE act they'll/we'll be carted off to jail (or sued the pants off by RIAA/MPAA/etc)
plus isn't it much better to NOT have such a fool restriction in place (and stop it before it comes into play) than it is to have to circumvent it later?
"agreed. TV is just boring. the only good thing is news and bbc.co.uk has that covered. anything else that's decent can be bought on DVD and watched when you want.
the benefit/cost of TV has been plummeting sharply for some time now."
Ah, but you are missing the point... what if DVD's go away and you are only "allowed" to watch DRM'd discs or downloads on a "per viewing" fee structure... and you couldn't make backups of the content (ok the DMCA ships already sailed, but still why let another one sail)
Right now PVRs/DVRs etc give you the advantage of watchign what you want, when you want... furthermore the problem isn't there's nothing worth watching, is that there's sooo much crap, on sooo many channels is that you need a willing guide (PVR) to help you sort through it... so when YOU are done mounting climbing for the day you can kick back, fire up your PVR and see all sorts of stuff that will interest you (no doubt Outdoor life network rugged how to "climb better shows" )and oh by the way zoom pass the commercials to nearly halve your coma couch time.
But back to the point of the article... you lose some of core abilities to manage content how you'd like (in the US) once it's been DRMd...
Between the broadcast flag, and the INDUCE act (oh and toss the patriot act in for good measure) we will soon (in the US) have less freedoms and transfer all the control to the MPAA/RIAA/etc...
Sure, ATI's HDTV wonder... which is OTA DTV only um.. the fusion III HDTV card which supports unencrypted QAM and OTA DTV.
*Shrug* What I really want is a PCI card that works with CableCard, to decode digital cable right into my pc and presumably HDTV (without the need for an external digital cable box... like some HDTV's are shipping with CableCard "slots"...)
Of course a DRM'less solution would be preferred... A cablecard enabled PCI card would allow for LEGITIMATE digital cable viewing on a PC... as you'd ask your cable company for the card (leased?) and only get the channels you are authorized...
blah... i'm not too optimistic.
The FCC takes a step forward (requiring firewire on digital cable tuner/boxes on consumer demand) and two steps back... (in)decency brouhaha, broadcast flag BS. etc
someone has them, and is hoarding them for uber-ebaying profit... remember these cards just need to be manufactured before the broadcast flag, not sold by then. Stuff manufactured before July 05 *should* be grandfathered in.
Unless im confused.
Of course I'd much prefer that someone step in and change the FCC's course on this (and many other issues).
You don't sound like someone who has gone through the pain of re-entering in all there preferences, season passes, etc... on the new box. Speak nothing of shows that you "archived" on the old box, or haven't had a chance to view before the changeover... which is the sucky part.
Another angle is that if I buy a box, i can, within reason (and the DMCA, blah blah blah) modify/hack it... I'm pretty sure the cable company will frown upon the same behavior with their box, and will be curious as to why the box has been opened =)
to clarify... The manufacturers will be required to implement devices that honor the broadcast flag after July 2005 (i think). BUT any card/etc manufactured BEFORE then is grandfathered in.
We can only hope there's a stockpile of broadcast flag-less devices somewhere next to the atari 2600 ET cartridges. =)
hopefully the ruling will be twarted/revoked by then... (one can hope)
The state of HDTV capture cards for the PC looks, cloudy and buggy =)
There's a few models out there (ATI HDTV wonder for example) but most of them just do OTA DTV ATSC stuff ( just when you thought I couldn't add in another acronym...) There's Fusion III card that was recently featured on/. that does unencrypted QAM for getting the HDTV off of *some* cable company's...
So you're stuck with either broadcast OTA DTV, a card that may or may not work depending on whether or not your cable company scrambles/encrypts their QAM, or cobbling together some sort of firewire type connection between your HDTV digital cable box and your PC (and as you read in the article their crippling those connections now, and next July all boxes will be hosed with broadcast flag )
I think our only hope is a CableCard compatible PCI tuner card. You could legally/legitimately "tune" HDTV digital cable right into your PC (hypothetically).
*shrug* that's my take anyways... I could be full malarcky =)
Slashdot Mirror
well, ReplayTv has some very cool networking features and auto-detec commercial skip taht tivo lacks the backbone to implement (and 3rd party apps/hax)... it's a shame it's NOT the market leader.
I think that DIY PVR is NOT for everyone... but it's really not THAT hard. How long ago did you attempt your myth/freevo build? The community/technology has come a long way since then, most likely...
I liken it back to the early days of MAME cabinet building... you had to hack keyboard matrices and solder like crazy, now you can get a ready made encoder with screw on terminals, prebuilt harness and plug and play... back in my day, we built MAME cabinets in the snow, up hill, both ways... but i digress...
Do you consider yourself proficient in linux? I think for the first timer, using linux to build a PVR can add to the learning curve (I suggest knoppmyth for folks new to linux but want to try it for their pvr setup)... there are window solutions (even commercial ones - yech ) that are brain dead simple to configure/setup/and approach tivo-esque usability without all the forthcoming messy DRM/restrictions/updates inthe middle of the night to remove features =)
*shrug* YMMV
e.
There's more than one way to skin the homebrew PVR cat... keep the PC out of the living room. Use a MediaMVP (or other network streaming device that is quiet/small/sexy) or a Mod'ed Xbox as a client, keep the noisey uber-server in the basement/closet/other room.
/. we don't buy our gaming PC's from Alienware, we build them custom (right?)
Although a Tivo can be cheaper, even considering lifetime subscription... it's more about control/creativity than anything financial.
BTW, don't like a computer case looks? Mod it! A buddy of mine modded a satellite case to be his PVR viva la dremel! c'mon this is
It can't be *THAT* hard to shlop knoppmyth and a pvr250 into a spare PC to get going, but the devil is certainly in the details/tweaks, that I can atest too =)
e.
besides the pvr350 part of your setup (which has it's own quirks), did you consider checking out knoppmyth to potentially cut down on the build/install time?
*shrug* FWIW there are other "off the shelf" commercial (and free) 3rd party PVR/htpc software solutions out there... although they are on the *gasp* windows platform *ducks*... I liked SageTV... BeyondTV has been getting good reviews... and GBPVR is very full featured, FREE as in beer (not source), and is pretty cool overall. There's a lesser known HTPC solution that's open source for windoze Media Portal... I've got a growing list of PVR/HTPC links here
Also there are other linux based OSS pvr solutions besides myth/knoppmyth... like freevo, dave and dina multimedia project, and a few others I can't recall...
*shrug*
e.
You won't necessarly have a problem when you switch to digital cable... you'd do the same thing a TiVo user does... You'd use an IR blaster (or a serial cable if you have a motrolla 2k dig cable box that hasn't been crippled by your cable company)
The IR blaster will be controlled by your mythbox... the ir blaster will simulate your digital cable boxes remote control presses to change teh channel at the appropriate times to record the shows you want... you just pipe the output via svideo or composite into your capture/tuner card =)
e.
All the more reason to Build your own PVR (yes it's my site and a blatant plug, but it's relevant)
Yes it can be more expensive than buying a TiVo down at Fry's/Best Buy, but you get more control over your content, at least until the big bad broadcast flag comes to town in July '05. Oh, and no monthly fees =)
*shrug* YMMV, and I do love my TiVo except for when I want to move content off it...
e.
I love my TiVo.... but... I like the control and freedom to move content around without any drm sillyness...
I know somoone praised automagic patching by tivo as a positive... I'd argue it can be a negative... like if they implement a feature or restriction you don't agree with you are powerless (well without delving into grey/black arts) to do anything about it... ask the time warner customers in NY who's DVR update fux0red their DVRs
(actually in the past didn't directtv sent an update that went awry and the "fix" was new hardware... or am i confused)....
*Shrug* Tivo's are now cheap (except service costs), easy to use out of the box, and just work...
but, me, I prefer to have a little more control and flexibility while giving me a geek project to work on... =)
e.
Hauppauge MediaMVP is less than 100 bucks at PCAlchemy
There's pleny of mediamvp hacking (including work on a mythtv client) and 3rd party client replacements out there like gbpvr (how to article on my site )
*Shrug*
e.
"Heck PBS in 16:9 is great."
That's what the world needs... hidef elmo!
j/k there's lots of cool stuff on PBS that looks brilliant on HDTV.
E.
but if it doesn't *work* that's $288 bucks out the window...
Granted, there's definitely an early adopter surcharge, just like most emerging technologies, but presumably if you want a device that works the HD tivo extra duckets might be worth it to you...
especially if you consider all the other dough the guy in the original article spent, 1k vs 5/month isn't probably an issue as far as equipment costs.
One of the reasons i'm so into building my own PVR (SDTV and HDTV), is the control over the ports/content (prior to broadcast flag that is)... how stupid is it to get an HDTV STB with DVI/etc disabled?! grrr...
The HDTV STB (and TV) folks have to do a better job on average of dealing with SDTV display on high res HDTV TV's... If that means upscaling, black boxing, whatever... if you spend X amount of grand on a fancy HDTV, your SDTV stuff shouldn't look worse IMHO.
e.
I dont' think so much that "HDTV" persay isn't ready for primetime... it's that the junk/rushed DVR set top boxes being pushed out by the cable companies aren't up to snuff...
The pushing of higher rez digital TV content over the cable line isn't *that* hard/different, nor is the decoding/decrypting of it. I gotta think the PVR/set top box quality is the issue here NOT the transmission of the HDTV or HDTV content itself...
*shrug*
e.
also had issues with his explorer 8000 DVR and ended up getting a TiVo IIRC.
*shrug*
e.
DVR Customers Get Autumn Freeze
(found via TV harmony blog)
Have to give credit to TiVo for remaining (ever so slightly) ahead of the generic cable company DVRs (for now...)
e.
"You assume that this would be done in the US. I hate it when somebody makes a point and then somebody brings up some act like that as though it affects everyone on the planet when it doesn't, it affects you Americans ONLY"
I assume nothing... see my other points in this topic, where I point out frequently (US)...
It is interesting to note that DVDjon/DeCSSjon was NOT an american and still got into hot water...
If you watch content that originates from US/hollywood/etc... sooner or later this will effect you, whether or not US laws applies directly to you, some US inpsired asanine law could come to a country near you =)
In short, other country's laws don't exist in a vaccuum.
e.
"it seems that if there is any way to get a signal to your computer, a free, open source software program could render it - and no laws would be broken."
well going from digital to analog to re-encode back to digital, is less than ideal...
presumably the digital outs on these BF'd devices won't let you suck down the DRM'd content on to a PC/mac/etc...
But then again, even you went the analog "ripping" route... some sort of evil macrovision type of crap will surface... (ever try to make a backup of a DVD onto a VCR?)
e.
"This is the wrong way to get around this problem. I say a boycott after the deadline would be far more effective. If nobody purchased a tv tuner after the deadline, that would speak volumes. It would have be a very organized protest, but with enough attention, it could work."
I couldn't disagree more. Stop it now.
What you propose will only hurt the manufacturers (you think THEY want to implement this crap?).
Stop the boneheads in the FCC being influenced by the MPAA/etc lobby before they do more damage.
Who cares if Janet shows her nipple on the half-time show, if we won't be allowed to pause and rewind and take screen caps of it?
e.
" By 1:00AM on July 1st someone will have hacked it."
And between the DMCA and INDUCE act they'll/we'll be carted off to jail (or sued the pants off by RIAA/MPAA/etc)
plus isn't it much better to NOT have such a fool restriction in place (and stop it before it comes into play) than it is to have to circumvent it later?
Do we want to have to have a "broadcastflagJon"?
e.
"agreed. TV is just boring. the only good thing is news and bbc.co.uk has that covered. anything else that's decent can be bought on DVD and watched when you want.
the benefit/cost of TV has been plummeting sharply for some time now."
Ah, but you are missing the point... what if DVD's go away and you are only "allowed" to watch DRM'd discs or downloads on a "per viewing" fee structure... and you couldn't make backups of the content (ok the DMCA ships already sailed, but still why let another one sail)
Right now PVRs/DVRs etc give you the advantage of watchign what you want, when you want... furthermore the problem isn't there's nothing worth watching, is that there's sooo much crap, on sooo many channels is that you need a willing guide (PVR) to help you sort through it... so when YOU are done mounting climbing for the day you can kick back, fire up your PVR and see all sorts of stuff that will interest you (no doubt Outdoor life network rugged how to "climb better shows" )and oh by the way zoom pass the commercials to nearly halve your coma couch time.
But back to the point of the article... you lose some of core abilities to manage content how you'd like (in the US) once it's been DRMd...
Between the broadcast flag, and the INDUCE act (oh and toss the patriot act in for good measure) we will soon (in the US) have less freedoms and transfer all the control to the MPAA/RIAA/etc...
all our content are belong to them.
blah
e.
Sure, ATI's HDTV wonder... which is OTA DTV only um.. the fusion III HDTV card which supports unencrypted QAM and OTA DTV.
... as you'd ask your cable company for the card (leased?) and only get the channels you are authorized...
*Shrug* What I really want is a PCI card that works with CableCard, to decode digital cable right into my pc and presumably HDTV (without the need for an external digital cable box... like some HDTV's are shipping with CableCard "slots"...)
Of course a DRM'less solution would be preferred... A cablecard enabled PCI card would allow for LEGITIMATE digital cable viewing on a PC
blah... i'm not too optimistic.
The FCC takes a step forward (requiring firewire on digital cable tuner/boxes on consumer demand)
and two steps back... (in)decency brouhaha, broadcast flag BS. etc
e.
someone has them, and is hoarding them for uber-ebaying profit... remember these cards just need to be manufactured before the broadcast flag, not sold by then. Stuff manufactured before July 05 *should* be grandfathered in.
Unless im confused.
Of course I'd much prefer that someone step in and change the FCC's course on this (and many other issues).
e.
bah i dorked the EFF link
broadcastflag not flat
also toms hardware review of ATI HDTV wonder might be of interest...
e.
there's some merit to that, however...
You don't sound like someone who has gone through the pain of re-entering in all there preferences, season passes, etc... on the new box. Speak nothing of shows that you "archived" on the old box, or haven't had a chance to view before the changeover... which is the sucky part.
Another angle is that if I buy a box, i can, within reason (and the DMCA, blah blah blah) modify/hack it... I'm pretty sure the cable company will frown upon the same behavior with their box, and will be curious as to why the box has been opened =)
eh...
"Could somebody point me to a homebrew PVR tutorial?"
boy do I have the place for you
Build your Own PVR Community (shameless plug, I know)
=)
e.
to clarify... The manufacturers will be required to implement devices that honor the broadcast flag after July 2005 (i think). BUT any card/etc manufactured BEFORE then is grandfathered in.
We can only hope there's a stockpile of broadcast flag-less devices somewhere next to the atari 2600 ET cartridges. =)
hopefully the ruling will be twarted/revoked by then... (one can hope)
e.
The state of HDTV capture cards for the PC looks, cloudy and buggy =)
/. that does unencrypted QAM for getting the HDTV off of *some* cable company's...
There's a few models out there (ATI HDTV wonder for example) but most of them just do OTA DTV ATSC stuff ( just when you thought I couldn't add in another acronym...) There's Fusion III card that was recently featured on
So you're stuck with either broadcast OTA DTV, a card that may or may not work depending on whether or not your cable company scrambles/encrypts their QAM, or cobbling together some sort of firewire type connection between your HDTV digital cable box and your PC (and as you read in the article their crippling those connections now, and next July all boxes will be hosed with broadcast flag )
I think our only hope is a CableCard compatible PCI tuner card. You could legally/legitimately "tune" HDTV digital cable right into your PC (hypothetically).
*shrug* that's my take anyways... I could be full malarcky =)
e.
" I am normally all in favor of industries cutting out the middleman. It tends to be the best way to keep prices low."
As a shrink wrap technician I abhor the use of Steam as a software distribution outlet.
=P
e.