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TiVo Plans More Functionality Reductions
TiVo has been in the news recently with a couple of plans to make their service less useful than it could be: first, TiVos will now auto-delete pay-per-view and video-on-demand movies, and second, TiVo is making sure that you can't use a TiVo to view NFL games outside the specified market area. TiVo's lawyer explains.
it's only fitting that when I clicked this article it read "Nothing for you to see here. Please move along."
time is a perception of a being's consciousness
time is your 6th sense, the wierd ones are 7+
Sounds like Trusted Computing in a beta test.
And I'll continue to not own a TiVo and download the shows I want to watch. Damn that internet! ;^)
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
I'm just glad I have mythTV. Sure I might have a problem if I have to switch to digital cable, but I dont have to worry about people deleting my videos before i'm done with them.
-phixxr
ungggghhhh
I can see how they would do this to reduce their legal costs, but it has to be costing them subscribers.
(ie: parody of MSN's "More useful everyday" slogan, for the mods :-> )
I am the maverick of Slashdot
"The reason that TiVo has to auto-delete a PPV movie is because it will be available for sale on DVD later on. " Saw this whole thing coming...of course some gigantic shows that make alot of money off advertising (NFL), and big movie productions were eventually going to start complaining to TiVo...I knew it wouldn't last!!!
How about a nice big load of anti-trust for the NFL. Spitzer, get in there!
I chose a replay TV over the Tivo.
yes, I bought a discontinued product.
but I dont get the company messing around in my property and I get to archive off shows effortlessly.
tell me why again why I want a Tivo instead of a replayTV????
I don't understand the problem. With Pay Per View, you are QUITE SPECIFICALLY buying a license to watch a movie once. You are PAYing PER VIEW.
There's no ambiguity about buying physical media vs the content, about buying a license, and so on. You're paying to have a movie playing to your sat/cable box at a specific time and date. Done.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
I always thought the idea of tivo was stupid anyway. I mean, why should I pay someone a service charge to allow me to "record" the programming that I already pay my cable company for. I can do that, even with this old device called a "VCR". Sure digital is much cooler, but there is no need for any service to have to interact with it. I say screw tivo and it's brethren. Build your own system.
Don't Tread on Me
http://www.byopvr.com/
As long as its still legal for me to record a movie and keep it forever, tivo can keep their restricted-box..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I was going to buy one for my wife and I and a couple for my parents but I will not be doing it now.
Seems MythTV became that much more usefull.
I'm reading too many "Well I'm glad I don't get TiVo" or "This will KILL TiVo."
No, what will kill TiVo is all of television, TV, and sporting leagues suing the pants off of them for providing something that the can prove is illegal (like viewing NFL games outside the specified market area). This is a setup to allow people to share shows amongst TiVos, but making sure they have a legal basis to not get sued.
TiVo has already been hacked (and TiVo doesn't punish for it), so how long do you think it'll be between when TiVo allows program sharing and someone hacks it so you can avoid these new rules?
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
If software developers followed suit and removed the bloat the way Tivo has, we'd all be better off.
Well done, Tivo.
TIVO Tv on our terms. Tivo it will let you record any show or program you wish for play back at a later date. (Un less such programs are not suposed to be aired in your location or you paid for them to be viewed only for a limited time. Or the people that made the program want to eventualy sell a realy expensive dvd boxed set in the near future or your mother who can login to your tivo and block you from recording all that nasty pron!)
NBC is an investor in Tivo. So I'm sure they are just fulfilling their special interests.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
And I'm a real nerd so I don't watch NFL. That's like sports or something.
With the commercial skip that ReplayTV has (think chapter skipping on a DVD) I don't know why anyone would want a Tivo.
tivo isn't the only game in town and they should recognize that it's easier in the long run to just roll your own. you can get one of those mini-pc's with a pci slot, put in a pvr card (there are many available) from hauppage, ati, or any other vendor, install linux and http://www.mythtv.org/the mythtv software (which i understand doesn't work well with ATI or Creative cards) and begin enjoying your shows. Remember...the more drive space you have the more you can record and if you get a dvd burner into the same box, you may be able to back up your programs for later viewing (may not work on all shows). Tivo? who needs 'em....
Is it 5:30 yet?
The new Tivos have a dvd-r. It would cut down on selling of sports dvds if you can just "burn your own" so content makers are going to freak. It still doesn't seem to restrictive since I don't watch pay per view or the NFL.
like this one tivo / burner from pioneer
...on my "Sleeper ISO" hacked series 2 DirecTiVo [info].
I have a ReplayTV. I prefer it to TiVo - with DVArchive I can stream shows to/from my Replay, download them easily to my computer, burn them to DivX and watch them on my $70 DVD player.
:)
I also get 30-sec skip out of the box and no goddamn grinning TV icon that tries to record gay porn for me.
Of course, ReplayTV has miniscule marketshare and its parent company is trying to get out of the market. Typical! I love my ReplayTV!
-EvilMagnus
I remember Macrovision.
They're the ones who did that funny trick with DVDs so the screen brightness would flicker which prevented anyone from running the television signal through any device that adhered to a standard.
They're the asshats who slipped that little "suprise" in with Turbo Tax that one year. Appliance rape, I called it.
TiVo should take the moral high road and at least supply some screwdriver-accessible switch which forces the machine to ignore these things they talk of in the article. The lawyer said they weren't expecting Macrovision to Trojan horse TiVo with this, but I don't think he's ever watched his computer sit in the corner and cry while a baby C_DILLA grows inside of it.
Direct away from face when opening.
Series1 hasn't seen a software update in eons, so I'm assuming us early adopters are safe from this? I can't imagine TivoToGo would be supported on Series 1 anyway.
Blame the NFL, content providers, etc. Do you expect Tivo to say "FUCK YOU WORLD, WE'Z DOING IT OUR WAY!" They'd be sued out of existance.
I have a $50 TV tuner card in my computer hooked up to my cable. I can record any show I want and save it on my HD. Plus the picture is far better on my monitor than on a crappy TV set, so why would I waste my money on TiVo? They can shove it!
I've got a ReplayTV as well. They leave me the hell alone, and I pay my $12.95 a month. Not a bad trade, if you ask me. ;)
I always recommend a roll-your-own PVR (like MythTV) or ReplayTV over Tivo EVERY time, for precisely this reason.
SNACKS ARE AWESOME
You just know that if TiVo hadn't implemented these restrictions that they'd have trouble with lawyers representing the NFL and the movie industry. It may make it less useful, but it's better than nothing. The real problem is the greed that dominates the entertainment industries and their attempts to jew every last dollar out of the hands of ordinary people. This move sucks, but don't blame TiVo.
All the NFL is asking TiVo to do is not make recorded programs available for transfer while that program is still being aired. Once the game is finished, feel free to shoot it over. Of course, that would take hours of bandwidth at current speeds, so it's not really an issue anyway.
I'd rather have companies like TiVo work with the content providers to reach agreements rather than have companies sue each other over supposed 'copyright' violations.
How long will it take for a hack to come out that fixes this?
:(
I should learn not to try reading comments to make sure I'm not posting something that's already been said. There's no way I can possibly keep up with them
--- 11 meters/second, or 24 miles per hour - the airspeed velocity of an unladen European swallow. Really.
Dish networks PVR is restriction free. It will record anything you want and keep it. It also has the nice 30 second skip on the remote (with out any codes to turn it on). I use my old All-in-Wonder card to permanently record shows from it. The only thing it lacks is the smart recording functions that TIVO has, but then that function sounds like it would be a lot of work to delete things it records that you do not want.
Best thing about it is that it was free 8^)
Science is the Real TRUTH!
Tivo is in big trouble anyway since all the major cable companies are coming out with their own DVR's with a pretty small monthly fee. This alone is probably enough to get rid of them in 5 years or so.
Then they go removing features and pretty much pissing off their loyal customer base, the only people they have to keep them going financially. I imagine cable companies will have the same issues with auto deleting pay per view, and no out of market sporting events, but if they never give you that in the first place it won't be so bad. In addition their hardware is going to work on their systems a lot better than adding on a Tivo to your existing cable system.
Bye bye Tivo.
I'm actually glad I have one, and not Tivo.
Let's see how long it is until Microsoft follows suit. (No pun intended)
It's been decided by the US supreme court that me recording someting that comes into my house, for my own personal, permanent use, is considered legal 'fair use'.
What more explanation does one need?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Plus, TiVos are indeed pretty hackable. In contrast to other manufacturers (eg. Microsoft put in a lot of effort to make sure the XBox was "unhackable"), TiVo doesn't really seem to mind people modifying their hardware all that much. And there are a lot of people who have "modded" their TiVos, even if it's just to swap out the harddrive for a bigger one. If you really want to permanently record a show, there's really nothing they can do to stop you. All they can do, is make it harder.
Today, a small part of the English language died.
Tivo can play nice with the industry or go the path of ReplayTV and get sued by the whole movie industry.
Audio Home Recording Act of 1992
Section 1008 is interesting:
"Section 1008. Prohibition on certain infringement actions
No action may be brought under this title alleging infringement of copyright based on the manufacture, importation, or distribution of a digital audio recording device, a digital audio recording medium, an analog recording device, or an analog recording medium, or based on the noncommercial use by a consumer of such a device or medium for making digital musical recordings or analog musical recordings. "
Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
If they're going to give in to corporations instead of their own customers, then my mind is made up!!
-- I am. Therefore, I think!
Based on what I know about the tivo's design, I think this will be an easy thing to get around.
There are only so many ways that tivo can add tags to tell the difference between pay per views and on demand items so that it knows what it should or shouldn't delete. One way is through attributes stored in the MFS structure, another way is maybe a hidden flag somewhere in the MFS filesystem itself, and probably the least likely method would be to tag the tystream itself.
No matter which of these methods they use, it would be very easy to identify and remove any tags. What would work even better is to patch the tivoapp binary so that it doesn't add these tags in the first place, which is otherwise a hard thing to accomplish, but several people in the tivo hacking scene have done quite well at things like this.
Careful with names containing L slashdot.org/~AiphaWolf_HK slashdot.org/~AlphaWoif_HK slashdot.org/~AiphaWoif_HK
You know, it's funny how this looks like a blow to consumers, when actually it's a blow against other businesses. How much revenue does TiVo and the NFL really think they are going to lose with this technology? This technology, in the consumer space, competes only with those "all games nationwide in a sport" package like DirectTV's NBA League Pass. How many consumers will both a) want to buy that package and b) be technically proficient and financially liquid enough to set up TiVo's around the country to stream all the games to their house? Not too many, entirely too much effort to get around paying ~$200/season.
Where I can see this being used is the sports bar market (for example). You get a bunch of sports bars nationwide which agree to stream each other the games from each market. Now the major cable/dish networks lose the revenue from each of those bars buying a premium sports package. Multiply this by tens of thousands of interested businesses, and it adds up to a significant amount. It seems to me that this is the real issue at hand.
These debates always boil down to those who are willing to pirate and those who aren't, but we can mask it as a "Fair Use" or "Consumer Rights" issue to keep the post count rolling. As far as Tivo goes, I watch a show, I delete it, I don't need to archive it for historical purposes and I have no right to do anything else with it. If it's really great I'll buy it on DVD and if it's like most shows I won't care. I'll bet I am in the majority of Tivo owners on this usage pattern yet people act like this policy somehow infringes on my right to use the device and it's content as described.
I know it's hard for some of you to accept, but not everyone purchases consumer electronics to discover exploits and alternative uses, and most people are willing to accept some limitations for the added convenince that Tivo brings. Most people aren't pirating off ST:DS9 and editing out the commercials for their personal archive or for uploading to usenet. It's hardly a stretch to imagine your downloaded copy of Gigli is time limited and you have no friends, so stop playing that hacked version of Counter Strike Source with the aimbot you just found and watch your damn rental.
TiVo is a victim. They're a victim of doing the right thing. The whole "information wants to be free" thing has gotten insanely out of hand. This is a logical waystation for us to be at, sadly enough, given society today. "If I want it, I should have it, and it doesn't matter that I signed a contract saying something different. Besides, it's not *really* theft, it's just a movie."
[Wish I could offer you a job, but (a) we're not hiring and (b) we're not in Ohio. But integrity and understanding right and wrong are high on my list for qualifying applicants. And getting harder to find.]
I have a Tivo, I quite like my Tivo and deleting PPV movies and NFL doesn't make a spot of difference to me because I don't watch them and I don't care. I suspect that 95% of consumers out there are the same way, so its only 5% of people that are even going to weigh the decision. I don't think PPV is competing heavily against the "watch it many times" market becuase then you'd just buy the DVD or Rent&Rip, hell there are 1$ DVD rentals everywhere... PPV is way overpriced IMHO anyway.
The thing is, Dish could do the exact same thing to us (I have a DVR522). Since there is NOTHING stopping them from pushing updates to you. Good thing Dish programmers are to busy trying to fix all the bugs in the 522 to stick us with that kinda crap ;P
Unstable Apps: Our Android Apps Don't Suck
I do this as well, plus I have a netflix subscription. It's working out great so far except for *one* *thing*.
:-) )
The Daily Show. I did a couple or three Google searches, found a couple torrent sites, but nothing really current and nothing that updated frequently.
Any thoughts? I mean, can you think of any way I can get daily or at least bi-weekly updates of the Daily Show without a cable subscription?
(I realize you have no reason to help, but any advice you could offer would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Furry cows moo and decompress.
For those who are like me and don't want to deal with the configuration of Myth on linux with all of its dependency goodness, have a go at Beyond TV. It worked for me and I like it a lot. The new version (3.5) will do multiple tuners too.
Life is the leading cause of death in America.
Let me explain. I will not buy a Tivo.
neutered Aibos?
YAY!!! Maybe we can kill the rest of the abortion that is english.
if we all spoke spanish, the loveable simple spanish, we would probably have less problems on the planet.
kill english, as it is of no use to humanity.
In my TiVo experience, it's just been useful for delaying my viewing for my convenience, not for archiving things. That's what DVD is for.
I know, I know, about 3 people will go to the solution that requires some effort, and the rest will gladly chew the cud of a now even less flavorful TiVo.
Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
All the more reason to Build your own PVR (yes it's my site and a blatant plug, but it's relevant)
Yes it can be more expensive than buying a TiVo down at Fry's/Best Buy, but you get more control over your content, at least until the big bad broadcast flag comes to town in July '05. Oh, and no monthly fees =)
*shrug* YMMV, and I do love my TiVo except for when I want to move content off it...
e.
Build Your Own PVR/HTPC news, reviews, &
Was the sensational headline really necessary? It's 'pay per view'... it only makes sense.
The PPV one is a little more disconcerting. Don't really like the idea. Not that I ever get PPV movies, but I don't like auto-deletion like that.
But let's be real: does anyone think TiVo WANTS to do any of this?? This is TiVo making small concessions to help hold back the onslaught.
"progress of arts and science" my ASS!
Its being used in the EXACT OPPOSITE way.
Are they going to prevent PPV movies from being burned to DVD? (Do they now?) That seems like one workaround to the autodelete problem.
I made a PVR system about 3 years ago and haven't regretted it since. Mine isn't as complex or capable as MythTV (primarily because MythTV doesn't support my ATI 8500DV), nor is it as simple as a Tivo, but it can fit a 2 hr. movie onto DVD at full DVD resolution with no problems.
And since I'm using ATI's latest & greatest software, I'm able to record natively at this resolution in DVD-ready mpeg2 format.
Other solutions, such as ShowShifter, offer a prettier front end, but they're unable to take advantage of ATI's built in codecs, so mpeg recording is a 2 part process, in that you record in full DV, and then re-compress the video to mpeg, or whatever I want.
It's nice to know that while I'm archiving my girlfriends HBO series, that I don't need to worry about the manufacturer of my equipment suddenly changing what my equipment will, or will not do.
Thanks again Tivo! It's moves like this that really make me think I made the right choice by building instead of purchasing your product.
I own a TiVo and don't ever order PPV, so this does not affect me, is a non-issue, and does not make my TiVo Series1 less useful to me. Is there honestly that much stuff on PPV that you want to record and watch again that you will base your PVR buying decision on it? Honestly, are you going to watch that 90 second boxing match from 5 years ago that you paid $50 for?
I would instead think about getting a TiVo with DVD writer built in so that I could burn it to disc and watch it anywhere outside of TiVo's influence and then they can delete it all they want.
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."
and call her MythGF, cuz you certainly don't have the real thing.
Tivo should be looking to expand their functionality at this point in time. With companies such Dish network and comcast rolling out their own pvr services, Tivo needs to do more to make a cost justification for the service. Sorry, downloadable movies and dvd burning aren't going to bring the masses or keep your existing customers. Reducing what they can record will drive people away in droves. Unless, Tivo makes a major paradigm shift towards increase the function of the device instead of increasing revenue through partners by sacrificing user freedom.
If you already have the Capture Card, why not try MythTV? There is a Knoppix CD with MythTV
http://www.knoppix.net/docs/index.php/KnoppMyth
Scott Carr
Parent is right about this one. Tivo's real fear should be all of the cable/satellite PVRs that are on the market. The true tivo "fans" will quickly turn when unremovable restrictions are enforced. Let's face it, the guy who's hacking a tivo could just as easily build a mythtv box or a windows equivalent.
This whole issue illustrates a point I've been pointing out on /. for quite some time: It is impossible for movie/music companies to stifle the free flow of information. So tivo's going to be controlled now, oh well, time for any capable geek to move on to another technology which circumvents these measures. More importantly, time for the inept masses to look to the geek for their solutions as well.
Something that the majority of people don't understand, even our president doesn't understand, that, is that you cannot rule a mass of intelligent motivated people with mandate. Look at the comparisons, prohibition, the war on drugs, the "war" on music "piracy", all failing, and rather miserably. Why? Because the motivation of the people and the means to accomplish these goals is far superior to that of the government trying to prevent them.
So sure, let tivo slit their own throats an inch at a time, I'll still watch my ripped movies and I'm sure NFL fans will find a workaround as well.
Let's get one thing perfectly clear, I did not vote for George W Bush, and I do not endorse what he does or says.
"
Foot... Meet Gun.
Sometimes it pays to no have the newest whiz-bang stuff. Nobody can tell me what I can and can't do with my Series 1!
This is exactly why I think replaytv was so much better a product.
Not only did it have great features like commerical skip (until the we practically sued to death and tivo grabbed share). But with lots of extensibility like the great oss dvarchive where you create watch, archive and control your networked replaytv boxes, I always think it is a shame that tivo with the cuter name and better marketing campaign which caught so much of the market share.
I strongly suggest people think about checking out the competition, all the hacker types I know prefer it. But now that tivo has the market, they really don't care what consumers want as long as they sell more units. Tivo has become synonymous with pvr; and utimately we the consumers are really loosing out.
All ye all ye outs in free!
Only people who do not own TiVo would say this. It is exactly the smart recording features (such as searching for keywords in description, recording all new showings of a program, record all appearances of an actor, or director, or writer...) that are so valuable. TiVo is definitely NOT just a digital VCR! And those who have ever used a VCR to time shift can attest that it is a pain. Anyway, just a note that only the ignorant would claim the features are not of value. As far as deleting the auto-recorded programs, they get deleted automatically if you run out of space (easily upgraded) and request a show to record. These shows stay happily out of your way until you are bored and want to see if there is anything good on. This just increases your chances that the answer will be yes.
Relax, Have a homebrew Manuals are for systmes that are either very complex or broken
Interested people can check the EFF's FAQ about Fair Use for more information...
Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
To reduce functionality after you've bought a unit sounds like fraud. Bait & switch. Like buying a fast sports car, and then having them download a patch into your engine computer that speed limits it to 85MPH so that the car company won't be sued for selling fast cars. I'd be looking for a class action lawyer to sue the pants off of TiVo if my box suddenly stopped doing something it used to do -- regardless of any license agreement that may have come with it.
And it's such a great way to advertise to new customers. Buy the new TiVo. It does less than the old model!
Now my question is: will this apply to my Dish Network PVR?
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
i dont run linux on this pc.. and my linux box is too crappy to use as a PVR (8 gig 166MHz pc with 64mb)
i just want something simple and good
The question is will they continue to take away features though? I bought a replaytv a while ago for my mom and I'm glad I did not buy a tivo instead now. I was planning on buying my girlfriend's parents one for Christmas and am glad I steered away from tivo. Me personally I use mythtv like a lot of geeks here but when I installed it on my mom's she did not like the fact that she had to leave a computer on when she left the house (her childhood home burned down when a toaster oven caught the drapes on fire).
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
"Dish networks PVR is restriction free."
For now.......
Then we need to improve the process. Provide a BoM and a live CD. Find a way to hack an XBox into this functionality since they're all going to become obsolete when XBox-Next comes out. Provide a stable channel guide. If it's still difficult, then there are likely more than a few talented people working to make it better.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
The Spanish text on multilingual documents is usually 30% longer than the English version. Your idea just sounds like a big waste of paper to me. No thanks.
Somehow, "More useless everyday" has a better ring to it.
DVB-T is DVB for TERRESTRIAL. It's Europe's equivalent of ATSC digital broadcasting in the US.
DVB-C is for cable, and is Europe-only. US cable uses QAM modulation also, but the coding scheme and other minor details about the signal differ, so DVB-C cards do not work with U.S. cable.
There ARE QAM-capable tuner cards for US cable on the market now, but since almost all U.S. cable channels are encrypted, they're not very useful.
PC-based DVB-S receivers won't work in the U.S. except for getting Dish Network's preview channel, as Dish's encryption scheme is modified enough from standard Nagravision that the Nagra access cards compatible with PC-based DVB-S receivers won't work with Dish.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
As I have said before, in a global economy all attempts to block custumers to get any product from anywhere globally (by restricting areas where some programs can be seen) should be illegal.
If corporations can invest, produce, sell their goods and services globally in order to take advantage of the lowest costs in different regions, then consumers should have the same right: to buy goods and services globally, in order to get the best price.
Any attempt to block this right should be considered as violation of fundamental consumer's rights and illegal.
Period.
If you want global economy, fine. But global should mean global both for corporations and customers.
The new "feature" is going to be downloaded to your Tivo, sometime soon. Or at least will try to get downloaded. If your Tivo is hacked, expecially for extracting video, you've probably disabled the upgrades (and if you added shell you can go check it right now, and disable upgrading if it's not done yet). Now, it's possible that Tivo will disconnect service for all units which do not accept the upgrade, but I somehow doubt it.
I wonder whether TiVO is going to start limiting the functionality of their units with built-in DVD recorders?
I was really thinking about getting one, but now I think that I'll get a new TiVO (I have a series 1) and an external DVD recorder... or just get the external DVD recorder by itself.
Anything you really want to keep should be stuck onto a DVD burner.
TurboNet for S1 (or USB network card for S2) and your show is on your video server where XBox can play it back any time you want.
RelevantElephants: A Somatic WebComic...
Well, that article pretty much convinced me not to buy a Tivo. I'm going with MythTV. The hassle of setting it up properly is worth being able to use it as I wish.
It's unfortunate that commercial companies can't release a product without having to deal with lawsuits regarding how their client's use the product. All that does is shift the supplier to someone who can effectively avoid these lawsuits.
Interviewer: With the cable companies in bed with the studios, TiVo could be the last line of defense for the DVR as we know it.
Lawyer: Sometimes I feel that way. We're aware of the danger, and the slippery slope. The danger is that DRM can tilt the balance of copyright so that ultimately there's no concept of fair use, because the content owners dictate what the rules are. But I think content owners are beginning to recognize that if you make things too restrictive, then consumers will find nonlegal ways to achieve what they want.
100 million P2P users around the world: What?
There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
Actually, this sounds quite reasonable. Why would you want to keep PPV/VOD programs stuffing up your TIVO/PVR? A reasonable finite time for PPV should be tolerated as long as a more permanent digital media recording (ie DVD) is made available within the timeline. As for VOD, I don't know why you would/should want to record it anyhow - it's 'on demand' - just order it again should you want to see it.
I don't see how this is any real threat to 'fair use'. You can still record the programs, but you have a limited timeline to watch. If you can't watch within that timeline, maybe you didn't really want to watch.
The NFL press release seems to boil down to this sentence.
After detailed discussions with TiVo, the NFL now concurs that TiVo's current technology will not allow real-time transmissions that would be a cause of concern for the NFL.
Or in other words, nothing will change in this regard.
The PPV timeout thing is a real difference, but PPV is not part of the general Tivo service anyway. Don't buy them if you don't like the conditions.
I'll hold on to my three Ultimate TV receivers. Still the best DVR for DirecTV IMO. Especially since you can pick up units on Ebay for less than $40.
Okay, why hasn't anyone created their own Linux for the Tivo hardware platform? For some reason, hacking the Tivo is taboo just because the thing runs linux. Oh it runs linux, and they "let us" "hack" it putting in bigger drives. CLUEBAT SAYS, YOU OWN IT. They can't stop you from upgrading it. CLUEBAT SAYS, if you were to replace the program guide system with something based off of XMLTV or some other open source project, they can't cry foul.
People laugh about the Xbox, Linux, and Microsoft loosing money since the thing is supposidly sold as a loss leader. But Tivo, Nooo can't touch that.
I called Tivo to inquire about how to add one of those "Press thumbs up to record" to a commercial. They wouldn't talk, they referred me to buy a $30,000 system that inserts the "push thumbs up to record" into the program signal. A EEG Line 21 encoder/decoder in raw mode and a commercial on VHS later I figured out how it was stored but haven't continued to research. They weren't nice, they weren't overflowing with joy. MY opinion is they took Replay's business, kind of like a Microsoft if you will.
So how does the Tivo work? Is there a software framebuffer rendering the menus to MPEG2 then pushing it to the decoder hardware? My roomate got a new Tivo and upgraded for someone, and I got the chance to peek inside. The new Tivos are using Broadcom KFIR-II chips for MPEG2 encoding (and probably decoding?). These chips are already usable under linux via the Pinnacle PCTV Deluxe USB unit. They use the exact same MPEG2 chipset, I put one of my PCTV boards next to the tivo, and the chips are identical in revision, size and everything else.
It is my guess that people could make an open source OS replacement for the Tivo hardware platform that would introduce all of the features that Tivo is taking away. Hell, might even be able to make it run on a BSD varient, NetBSD powered Tivo... bring it ON!
I'm really curious how the Tivo renders the menus... outside of this, I can't think of any really difficult obstacles, unless the architecture is very very proprietary (MIPS core on the new boxes, PPC on the old..).
Southeastern Virginia REPRESENT!
Nah, "cince" is just five times longer than "since".
If these two systems were easy to install (as easy as installing a Linux firewall distro) then maybe a TiVo or Windows media centre wouldn't seem to attractive.
Has taken me a good week and a half just to get a DVB card functioning in Linux. Had to play with bios settings like PCI delays to get the card to function. When it works 100% it will be great, but it's not friendly enough for most people yet (it's been ruining my sleep and i'm relatively good with Linux).
They do, it's called MythTV.
"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death." Proverbs 16:25 (NKJV)
If they are auto-deleting Pay-Per-View stuff then what happens when Netflix movies download onto a Tivo in the future? Will they be removed after a week? A day? At all is annoying as sometimes it takes me a month or two to watch a movie and if it's going to be auto-removed then I don't see where I would use a Tivo or that service.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
" Dish networks PVR is restriction free. "
For now. Tivo was restriction free for a while too.
evil is as evil does
http://mythtv.org/ Don't know if you could "run" this PVR software on a Tivo. But I think you could probably build your own PVR and use this.
To know is to have knowledge....to understand is to be enlightened.
I have a way around all of this. Here's what I do.
Get about 10 VHS tapes and 2 VCRs. Set the VCRs to record all of your shows. Then, when your VCRs are done recording, take the tapes out and put sticky tabs on them noting what shows are recorded on each tape. Then put the tapes in a big stack and put two new tapes in the VCRs.
Using this method I've only lost about a dozen shows due to lazyness in sticky tab notation and misplacement of tapes (and occasionally the baby will rearrange them for me).
Anyway, who needs a TIVO when you can follow these simple steps and keep your shows until the sticky tab falls off.
if we all spoke spanish, the loveable simple spanish, we would probably have less problems on the planet.
"Fewer Problems"
'Problem' is a 'countable item', so you have 'fewer problems', not 'less problems'.
[only commenting since this is a thread about usage, even if it did start with someone overeacting to a spelling error]
See, English is more specific than Spanish. There are words with shades of meaning that don't exist in Spanish. Thus it's more terse and efficient, yet much harder to learn. Yes, I know both.
As, somebody around here says, "English is the Perl of Human Languages." Yes, it has its bugs, irregualars, idioms, and the like, but noone has figured out how to bootstrap usage of a regular language or reversible grammer in human usage. Even Esperanto can't get off the ground.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Amen! Big Ta Do over nothing in my book too. I don't copy payper view stuff anyway. Craps too expensive to begin with. I just want to be able to watch Big Brother, or such at a time most convienient to me. That's how I use my Tivo and love it because of that. I can watch the 6 O'clock news when I want now. I can pause it so I can argue the point being made with the poor sap sitting next to me, (sorry wife), and not miss what is being said next. That's what Tivo is about and anyone who has one knows it.
This is a nothing story by someone who doesn't have a Tivo, is envious of it and wants to make it seem less valuable to others. Bunch of Phewy!
I've had one for a couple years now. It works as well as the Tivo does, without all of the BS that that they seem to have been pulling recently. And SonicBlue has actually put up money to fight this type of crap in court.
The killer app for me is that I can fire up DVArchive on my Mac/Windows/Linux box and copy over a program from the ReplayTV with ease. No need to hack hardware or software like I believe you have to with the Tivo.
About the only feature I would like is the media center. but then, I don't believe I can use it from my Linux server anyways, and that's where all the MP3s are.
About the only thing I can think of that has done to the ReplayTV that is even remotely similar to this is removal/crippling of the auto-skip feature. But that doesn't work much of the time anyways.
I know about building your own PVR, but the Tivo makes the perfect platform! Forget a $100 mini-ITX system board and a $200 wintv card! Imagine a new OS that you can DD onto the Tivo drive, plop it in there... and tnen trade content with people on the intarweb.. browse bit torrents, stream live sports TV using multicast IP to the ENTIRE NATION FROM YOUR LIVING ROOM! MOOHAHAH EAT THAT YOUR CORPORATE WHORES! Fuck your BLACKOUTS on your all mighty content.
What about an archive system on the backend, that sucks down all of the content from all of the opensource tivos, storing in a huge, massive, system ALL content from television! Okay, so that would indeed be alot of lawsuits but if you've ever tried to get some news content from 10 years ago, or even an old tv series like the whiz kids, it is damn near impossible.
Southeastern Virginia REPRESENT!
You mean less more usefull every day? They are cutting capabilities of FUTURE services (NFL restriction, for example, is on LONG DISTANCE TRANSFER of shows), not available on Tivo now.
RelevantElephants: A Somatic WebComic...
I am going out on a limb here, but I can count the number of people who this will effect on my middle leg.
LEPP
Are you talking about zap2it? They still let you sign up for free. If they ever stop, people in the US will go back to using screen scrapers like people in other countries. Where's the problem?
:)
Screen Scrapers are counter to revenue models so at a certain level you can expect an arms race.
If Zap2It offered a reliable data feed for $3/mo, how could you argue with that? A good service costs money to operate. Heck, I pay $7/mo to listen to a radio show online, but that's alot more bandwidth.
If you figure a 5-person shop could offer a data feed with operating costs of about $350,000 per year you'd need twenty thousand subscribers to make a meager profit. Probably do-able.
If I were Zap2It I'd probably offer the $3/mo feed or a free feed that could be decrypted by authorized players which would agree to show ads.
Someone smarter can work out the crypto on how to do that when you have the source.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
that's it, that's all i have to say.
---
Every fucking time somebody on /. mentions irony some other more "elite" person has to mention how it's not irony and how funny and ironic it is that the poster uses "ironic" in the wrong way.
;D
be sure not to forget the reply that thereby defines the term irony.
only here, fsckin' slashdot...
And they drive around honking when "there" team wins. Its a strange phenomenon.
Why are you surpirsed that they don't want you to have a permanent copy that you can burn to dvd and share over p2p? You've ruined it for yourselves by supporting p2p with no legal restrictions.
What features will the remove in the future? Very simply I do not trust them and I will not give money to companies I do not trust unless I have to.
How many musicians would make music if money wasn't involved? I'd think most of them would - but maybe in their spare time. It seems to me that artists create art for the sake of art itself, for expression of themselves for others to see and appreciate - not just for money. Maybe I'm being a little idealistic but take a look at small-time authors, poets, and musicians. They don't see major bucks rolling in and yet they still create/perform. Why would that be? ... I'll leave that thought up to you.
I consider it a coincidence, not ironic, that a more elite person replies to correct a parent poster in order to tell them that they are using the word "ironic" incorrectly.
Responding to a coincidence that responds to a post using the word "ironic" is ironic, and responding to an ironic response to a coincidence that is a response to a post using the word "ironic" is, in itself, idiotic.
Therefore I am an idiot for replying to you.
Self-awareness of idiocy therefore makes me not an idiot and the only conclusion can be that none of my parent posters exist.
I just bought a tivo less than a week ago too. The ppv movie limit is fine by me only because I don't get any ppv channels. Now the thing with the nfl is just f up and wrong. I like to watch, like the majority of the football loving population, other football games and to do that is not right.
:). I just know in the future never to buy a new box when this one keels...
I don't regret getting the tivo if for anything else i have all 4 games of my favorite team winning the world series for the first time in 86 years
hahha, that was truly beautiful. :D
there might be a cool website reporting on this
Take a look at the demographic you yourself mention. Authors, poets, artists and musicians. All areas which dont take an inordinant amount of resources or personal time to produce something. And all areas which have had mixed success in breaking into the mainstream, but very few have had the same amount of success as professionals have. I did say that you would still find the people doing it for the love, but seriously, how many people have the thousands of dollars available per day for a multicamera, broadcast quality video and audio recording system? How many have the money to take it to locations? How many people have the money to carry out huge stunts? How many people have the money for CGI? The answer really is very very very few, and the number of people willing to make that sort of investment based on a love of the thing? Minimal. People dont want to stump up $10,000 or more for love, with little to no return. You said it yourself, people would do this in their spare time, but the sheer number of people producing would dive dramatically. Musicians dont have the time to put out 2 professional albums a year when theres no return.
Who needs ppv? I haven't bought a PPV since the day I got my first disk from Netflix several years ago as a netflix early adopter. Sure my Tivo changed the way we watch TV shows, but Netflix made renting movies a whole different exprieence too.
I've been looking into purchasing a Tivo for about a month now, but I definitely won't bother now. Anyone got any URL's so I could see how to build one using Linux?
The only thing it lacks is the smart recording functions that TIVO has, but then that function sounds like it would be a lot of work to delete things it records that you do not want.
The amount of work required to delete the stuff you don't want is -- wait for it -- Zero! When TiVO takes it upon itself to record something, it is automatically assigned a low priority status. If it's taking up room you need to record something else, those programs are written over without nary a peep from the TiVO.
TiVO might have some annoying restrictions, but overall, it's really nicely designed and works very well. Of course, I got mine because it befuddled my dad and he gave it to me, so I don't have a lot invested in it...
I call bullshit, and here's why. Information doesn't "want" anything. Information is not a living being with thoughts and emotions and desires. All the phrase "Information wants to be free" does is remove the human factor from the distribution of information, and therefore responsibility.
Without human intervention, in most cases, information does not propogate itself. The data on DVDs do not spontaneously copy itself onto people's hard drives and share themselves on P2P networks, nor do music tracks and software applications.
Information doesn't want to be free. HUMANS want information to be free.
There's a Mercedes gap too. I want one and can't afford one, but it's not government's job to do anything about it.
As of this second, it doesn't matter to me, since I watch zero sports and an equal number of PPV movies, but I hope they don't limit things further. I completely love my TiVo. Luckily, both of the current things are due to things that already have strict licensing in place. Hopefully the networks won't worry too much about who's watching ER when.
Building my own PVR just isn't practical. It costs more ($99 for a Series2 + that much more for a 120 GB drive, for example, compared to MB + fast CPU + big disks + case + tuner cards + *a remote*, for God's sake, not to mention the time to put it together) and would not work nearly as well with DirecTV. It's worth pointing out that DirecTiVos save MPEG data from the satellite *straight to disk* so the recorded shows you watch are zero-generation--just perfect digital replicas of the ones and zeroes that came into the dish.
I have a 32" tube television and can see artifacts in most programming (looks great overall but hey, I'm picky) so spending more for a clunkier box that will introduce another round of compression artifacts is not appealing. And don't tell me about slideshows, MP3s, the weather, etc.--I don't care. I just want to watch TV.
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
While your point sounds good at first, you must take into consideration that musicians - professional ones at that, have their resources given to them by the companies that sign them. The artists often do not NEED such equipment as when their "art" is ready, the resources to publish are "given" to them (for the rights, of course.)
I would also beg to differ about the time and effort needed by poets, authors, and such to create a piece of work. Authors and poets toil for months, years to create something that they're willing to release - even on things that they will NEVER release. They don't measure how much they're putting into each item - they just perform the act out of their love for that act. I find it overly simplistic to say that all the work and effort that goes into each piece that is not sold to the masses is negligible.
I bet the agreement gives them the full right to do what they are doing. All this "bait and switch" that you worry about I would bet is covered in the agreement that you agrred to when you bought their service.
Razzious Domini
I could be a GREAT KARMA WHORE if I could just shed the few morals I have left.
One more reason to just build a MythTV box.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
SO which companies are going to give musicians the resources without an implied return? The arguement works either way, someone has to put the capital in, and that isnt going to happen without some sort of return, love of it just isnt enough. And I think you will find that most first time authors or poets write their books in spare time, for the love of it. Very few start out with the impression its going to make them millions and be their primary income, and those that do are invariably the ones that fail. Creativity isnt a career that you choose, it chooses you. Again, its the love of it that starts these people out. I wasnt saying that the work and effort on the part of these people is negligable, i was merely saying that the work and effort required is on a whole different level than that of film making etc.
What tivo is proposing is not really going to hurt you. If you read the articles there are several things going on.
NFL - you can still record it but you can't use the new Tivo to Go to watch it live from a remote site. I completely understand the fear of the NFL where watching a live game has a premium value and sports bars pay a premium for sattelite transmissions.
You can still use Tivo To Go to watch the recording remotely but you can't do so until after the recording is complete.
Personally I'd much rather have TiVo make such a deal than have the FCC intervene or worse. If you really want to do the live retransmission, get Myth or SnapStream... until they get big enough to be sued.
Pay per view - Hrm... now let me think... do I want to buy a DVD for $20 or pay $8 for the PPV movie only to keep it on my tivo indefinetely... that's a toughie there isn't it....
PPV is license to view once or within a specific time. I haven't seen anyone complaining that they can't camcorder record at the movie theatre, so why are you complaining that you can't keep a tivo'd PPV? (Note - you can still record it but there will be DRM to only let you keep the PPV show for a set period of time... what's the problem with that?)
The only time I watch live TV now is for HDTV. I don't yet have a way to record HD content, so I choose to watch a few shows a week live.
I've owned a ReplayTV ever since the first one came out, and I agree that watching live TV sucks. I miss being able to pause, rewind a bit, and skip commercials (though the breaks do give me a regularly-scheduled chance to get another beer!) on HD shows.
blog
My DirecTivo lest me record two channels whilst watching an already pre-recorded program.
That is awesome. Just awesome.
Tivo have to play politics with the media companies, implementing these kinds of restrictions, in order to survive.
It's easy to snipe from the sidelines and make accusations and complain about decisions you have no real visibility into and no control or influence over.
Do you imagine that the Tivo marketing and engineering folks sit around a table and say:
"Hey, we're going to reduce our functionality and annoy everyone on Slashdot."
"That's a fantastic idea!"
"Hear hear!"
"My god, Smithe, we're obviously not paying you enough. Brilliant, man... brilliant!"
No, of course not. They probably think it sucks too, but they're providing the best service they can for the largest customer base they can (not the Slashdot "X Windows is better than MS Windows because there are 8,000 different controls I can tweak" kiddies).
I love my Tivo. It has absolutely changed every aspect of how I use my Television. And the dual tuner integration with DirecTV is awesome. I support Tivo's service and, whilst any reduction in service is a shame, I believe they are doing everything they can to remain lawful, respect the media companies and provide the public the best PVR service.
As the technology net closes around digital media, only companies who play nice will survive.
You may love your MythTV now, but I suspect in the future you'll love it as a memory.
I think there may also be restrictions on what you can write out to DVD as well. On the TiVo forums someone mentioned that they got a message saying that they could not burn a recorded NFL football game from last week to DVD.
NOW do you worry about it affecting you?
The point is simply that the true artists will do the work without return. The fact that money is involved is an afterthought. If someone wants to purchase that person's "art" then they put in the capital and make it available for the general public.
Film-making, while not for massive blockbusters which come later in a film-maker's career, is often begun with simple equipment from friends, family, self-purchased consumer gear. A few thousand over a few years isn't much to throw into any hobby, it seems. This is why it's not a stretch to "know" that the artists will in fact invest into their artform.
TiVo's Plan For Success:
1. Make a great product.
2. Remove the features that make the product great.
3. ???
4. Profit!
-Valen
On the subject of Tivo, I really can't comment...they don't currently allow Canadians to use their service, hence our being stuck with either a cable-co PVR (at ~700 US, not likely!) or BYO.
I'm just having problems understanding why people have so much difficulty with setting them up. Components exist to make all of this easy.
My fiance and I run an older ATI tuner board on a little-used PC recording (using GuidePlus, still going after 5 years) to MPEG-2. We looked at running output to the TV and it was too much of a pain, so we spent roughly $170 US on a Prismiq set-top box (running Linux, no less) that will work wired or wireless to bring our music, movies, and photos to our TV. No setup, no wires, no problems. Once a month or so, I give it a reboot to clear the RAM. That's about it.
Don't assume that every BYO PVR has to be a hardcore Linux box with hours of work pounded into it. Sometimes, there's a middle-ground between high-priced consumer models and BYO...
As an aside, I do spend hours on my Linux servers and love them, but I want my TV to be simple.
"Be proud to be a fighter" - Martial Arts Adage
Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.
You know it can't be good when a lawyer has to explain something.
> TiVo is making sure that you can't use a TiVo to
> view NFL games outside the specified market area.
Well, you can watch games on your Tivo remotely, but other people can't...somehow...through the magic of the internets.
It's interesting to see how new technology tends to promote "waves" of use that often gets forgotten. We get excited about a technology or new gadget, use the hell out of it, and then our use or interest just peters out. For example, specific to TV technology, I remember when we first had DirecTV installed back in 1998. With all the Premium movie channels and PPV, we recorded TONS of movies to tape with our VCR. Never had we had a larger tape library! The result? Tons of never-watched movies and countless recorded-over or discarded tapes.
But wait! Here comes the DVR! After using a ReplayTV model 2020 for several years, I ran out and got a new ReplayTV model 5040! Now I could offload recorded movies to my PC for "archival" to DVD. Oh, how cool! I recorded, downloaded, and burned countless DVD-R's! The result? Lots of never-watched DVD'R's.
All this time, I have purchased close to 100 DVD's, ready to play in my home theater system! Now I have at my fingertips, many of my favorite movies and TV series at my beck and call. The result? More stuff for my wife to dust and a bunch of seldom-watched DVD's.
Maybe I'm not the typical tech-head, but you see, it turns out that we are more and more appreciating simplicity. And what do we watch the most? Oh, probably about 6-8 channels out of the couple hundred channels that Charter Cable provides. We rarely watch "live" TV, watching most content through a ReplayTV. And we watch the occasional VOD movie or special. PPV? Haven't bought one in years.
We are now trying out a newly-deployed Digeo Moxi DVR provided by Charter Cable, and so far, it is giving us the simplicity we want. Can I "offload" shows for burning to DVD? No. Can I record VOD? No. Am I limited to only the content that the Cable Company provides? Yes. So why is it so great? Well, I get sleek-looking box that integrates a DVR and a Digital Cable box. It provides both SD and HD viewing and recording capability, it provides full DVR functions, it requires only one remote, and it's pleasing to use. Of course it has its idiosyncracies, but most importantly, my wife and I are now much happier for the simplicity--and believe me, that's worth it.
And yes, when then next "latest and greatest" thing comes out, I'll probably jump on it, but at least I'm starting to understand that simplicity typically outweighs technical complexity in most cases.
I know this diatribe doesn't even address the NFL/HBO/TiVo issue, but hopefully, it will get you thinking about simplicity...
My mom always said, "Jim, you're 1 in a million." Given the current population, there are 7000 of me. God help us all!
It's sad, really sad, to see stuff like this happen. Service and functionality reductions never help anyone's reputation and certainly don't get them new customers. As powerful as TiVo must be (I don't have one myself), this makes me want to have one even less.
I'm sure all the TiVo owners out there are worried about this DRM being a possible Trojan Horse which could ultimately lead to ever-tighter content control, effectively yoking the Tivo to halt its progress. What subscribers really need is a *binding agreement* from TiVo, stating that they will always allow people to record programs and that this truly is a one-shot deal.
if you want a permanent copy why not purchase a permenent copy in the first place?
Because they charge so much money for those permanent copies?
"Provided by the management for your protection."
This isn't about complaining to tivo, this is about recognizing that these changes substantially reduce the value of the device and will accordingly reduce sales.
Thank goodness they dropped software updates for series 1 TiVos! It looks like the series 1 resale value is going to stay high. (guessing, didn't read the whole article).
BTW, keep this up, Tivo, and people are going to stop buying these things. Who wants a dvr w/ dvd recorder if you can't record everything you want? I'm not buying one.
Well...nostalgia is one good reason to keep an 'old' recording. I've got the original broadcasts of the last two episodes of Futurama, dated August of 2003, still sitting on my UltimateTV receiver.
Any time a technical report is delivered by a lawyer, you pretty much know the tech is going to either be diluted or deleted and the report isn't going to be good news for anybody (except the lawyers, of course...)
This space intentionally left (almost) blank.
Even more reason to use Freevo or MythTV. Multifunction, unlimited HD space, network atached storage, modular components, now maintain last releases funtionality (or *gasp* new functionality).
What twisted crime of logic could merit such a sentence?
He's just getting started.
right now... it isn't JUST the TiVo...it's all DVR's (homebrew or not).
Anyone notice that NBC and now ABC is dinking around with the start and finish times of their shows?? No big deal you may say.... the DVR takes care of all that.... but let's look at the PATTERN....
ER now starts at 9:59pm rather than 10PM on Thursday nights... why?? Because CSI over on CBS is almost the ratings grabber that ER is. Think about it, I have my DVR programmed to pick up both ER and CSI, I have to set a priority on one, it happens to be ER. The DVR can't reconcile the 1 minute overlap of the two shows, and so ONLY ER RECORDS. Now I have to either 1. Watch CSI in real time (defeating the purpose of a DVR) or 2. Record by time/channel (Defeating some of the utility of a DVR) or 3. Not see CSI, at least on occasion.... probably the option that most people would take who live with a DVR. Most with DVR's would just not watch?? Hmmm.... did I hear a ratings point or two just fall to the floor?
It's obvious to anyone who thinks for 5 seconds that the networks are trying to upset the DVR viewing of other networks' shows by moving the start/end time a minute or two this way or that.
Best of all worlds is for the DVR's to come up with a scheme to combat this.... I can think of two easily implemented changes that will go 99% to fixing it. But it needs to be fixed.
I bought one of these a few weeks ago, on clearance at local Best Buy, for $200.
It's a Toshiba/ TiVo "Media Server" thingie; a claimed 80-hour TiVo (which it's not really, at least not as sold -- keep reading) and a progressive scan DVD player. The chief reason that I kept coming back to the store and looking at this device (and wondering why they weren't flying off the shelves) is that it says right on the box "no subscription required" -- TiVo service (a chopped-down version) is included with the purchase price and tied to the unit.
Now, for $200 it's a pretty good deal (excellent, even); I was surprised to find when I checked out that there was a further $100 rebate available, but which required activation of a higher grade of TiVo service than the included free variety.
I don't like continuing payments when I can buy out in advance, though, so I paid the full (clearance) price, no rebate -- continuing payments are evil. The limited but included service is one step about the series I, which could be used as simple VCRs (without the service); from what I understand -- not much -- this is *not* possible with the series II TiVos. It might be with ultra-hacking or something, but I mean out of the box.
The limited service means that a lot of the cool TiVo features aren't there (you can't set up wishlists by actor or show-type, for instance), and that the listings go out only three days in advance, not two weeks. As you can see from the rebate and the feature-chopping, TiVo would *like* everyone with one of these to upgrade to their higher-cost service. However, 3 days is plenty for me, and a happily made trade-off to avoid a recurring bill.
Note: one of the weirder things that's crippled on this variety of TiVo is recording quality: the only option is "highest quality." Now, that sounds pretty nice in a way, since "high quality" means "good," but it also means that the recording capacity as delivered is actually way less than the 80 hours promised on the box. For me, it's not a big deal -- I mostly use TiVo to timeshift once in a while, watch Good Eats and Monk. However, there are certain shows I'd like to keep on there for later perusal; I've got the recently shown-on-cable Carlito's Way on there right now, for instance, set to never delete. There will be more like this, I'm sure, and eventually, the lie (LIE! LIE! LIE!*) on the box about the capacity will annoy me more.
You can "upgrade" (odd word, considering) the player to record at Medium and Low quality, but only if you own a subscription. This I find a pretty snarky, snively, unethical approach: the box says nothing about this requiring a subscription, while it *does* say both "80 hours" and "no subscription required." If I didn't find it actually well suited to my actual use, I'd want to dedicate some portion of my life to getting from Toshiba satisfaction on this point, but as a life-energy use, I suspect it's not very rewarding. Just caveat, lector. And, if you happen to work in Toshiba / TiVo's marketing department and let this happen, shame on you.
timothy
* No, really. Someone should burn for the glibly false advertising. Spread out over all the people who own one of these, TiVo / Toshiba has failed to deliver just how many tens of thousands of hours of promised capacity? Mendacity, mendacity, mendacity!
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
Do you have to load any software on the TiVo (ftp, telnet, ssh, etc?) in order to do this, or do the supported drivers for the TurboNet in the 3.0.0 on S1 allow that access already?
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."
I know it won't work wih DirecTivos but it's a workaround.
Schnapple
OK- Karma burning time I guess... responding to a +5 funny with something serious... oh well...
To just one of your points:
* Right And Wrong are explicitly dependent upon the status quo
Actually, yes. There is a moral imperative to obey the law of the land, especially when the law is enacted through a democratic process.
Whether the law is dumb, wrong-headed, or just plain foolish, it is the law. We have a process for enacting and revoking laws that is amenable to input from average citizens.
It behooves legislatures to pass laws that aren't particularly foolish so as not to create a general resentment towards the law and an attitute of general scorn towards obedience to its strictures.
It likewise behooves us to obey the laws that we have, as long as they persist in being the law, because we individually benefit from preventing the societal breakdown that comes from rampant law breaking.
By obeying the laws generally we strengthen society and create an atmosphere conducive to the respecting of our own rights. By encouraging that respect in word and deed we create a safer, more sane society.
When there is a competing moral imperative, as during the civil rights movement, passive resistence to injust and immoral laws had at least a moral basis for breaking the law. We are far, far, far, from being able to justify breaking the law in order to protest silly content restrictions.
OTOH I don't particularly agree with the grandparent on most of his points. Information does want to be free, and is at its most effective when spread the farthest. Finding fair mechanisms for that spread is still a work in progress- but the law is our protector much more than our opressor. We need to remember that.
There are no drivers required to make TurboNet active (Tivo actually added TurboNet drives to their 3.x software) However ftp/telnet are not enabled by default. The easiest thing to do it is to follow directions for TurboNet install CD - it makes enabling ftp/telnet (as well as assigning a static IP for DHCP chalenged)a heck of a lot easier for average user - not to mention fully automated.
As for extraction, this generally requires extra software. Your best bet is reading a lot of forum postings. There are multiple ways to extract data, look up TyStudio, but there are other tools too.
Lastly, to extract from S1 DTivo, you will need to either disable encryption PRIOR to recording or use a kernel module that will decrypt video for you. See same forum for details.
RelevantElephants: A Somatic WebComic...
What do you smoke and where I can buy it? How ironic.
<^>_<(ô ô)>_<^>
PPV does preceed DVD/Video sales and rentals: Hotel Pay-Per-View. Systems like LodgeNet (used in most major hotel chains) have agreements with studios to air movies still in theaters. However, there is a four to six week delay to ensure that it doesn't cut into precious box office sales when the matter most.
Home PPV is also delayed four to six weeks to prevent similar impact on the DVD/Video sales figures.
- JoeShmoe
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-- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
All the media industry is doing is maximizing profit by giving the customer as little as possible and charging as much as they'll pay for it. I forsee they'll keep removing functionality until their user base starts dropping off sharply.
The price of a seeing a movie in the theater is going up. How much longer until watching a movie costs as much as buying it does today?
How come you have to pay to buy a movie if you've already seen it? Why can't you get a movie for free if you haven't seen it so you can decide whether or not it's worth buying? The answer to all these questions is profit.
DVDs used to be cheaper than VHS, but when DVD started taking off so did its price. Now VHS movies are as cheap as they should have been back when thats all there was.
If these things were reasonably priced, who would care to obtain them without paying anyone? (downloading illegally is not stealing or theft by the way, don't let them convince you it is)
Fight back, download movies.
Question everything
Here in the Bay Area, the Raiders games aren't televised unless the games sell out. The games rarely sell out, so I don't watch the Raiders play.
:P
Who loses? *shrug* Not me. The NFL loses another viewer.
Besides, even though I can't speak Spanish, there's usually a soccer game on the Spanish channels that's more interesting.
So what about pausing? Since it's PPV, can I pause?...or not?
If I can, then I'm just "pausing" for an entended time.
the biggest problem is: the drives (and therefore, content recorded) is 'married' to the unit and its motherboard!
;(
I have a direct-tivo (sat tv) and while it has 2 tuners, one has been flakey for the past year or so. one tuner will lock onto a show but if the other hits a channel on the fuzzy list (reception wise) it will sit there with a banner saying that it can't lock on. workaround? move the locked tuner onto some 'dummy' channel (and do a record on that, so it sticks) then move the other tuner to the channel you want. then cancel the record on the dummy tuner.
what a farking hassle! but - I once tried to return this player for a properly working one - only to find that I could NOT (!!) swap the drives from my old unit to the new unit. no go.
so I couldn't even really TEST the new unit's dual tuners. and since I had hundreds of hours of content (that I wasn't prepared to dump) - I am STILL stuck with the semi-broken unit. until I can spool off all that content, which might take a long long time - given that copies have to be analog and 1:1 (realtime).
when the dvd-recording tivos come down in price, that problem will be solved. get content off ASAP since the unit can be considered its own worse liability. but for now, the roughly $800 price of the dvd-recording tivo isn't in my range - and its not a direct-tv unit, either.
the one thing that IS cool about the direct-tv tivo combo is that the mpeg from the satellite is saved DIRECTLY to the disk. no decode to analog and re-encode like a normal video-in style tivo would do. less generational loss. can't get that any other way, esp. not via free software since there's no direct way to get the mpeg stream from direct-tv (is there??)
just some FYI about tivo - buyer beware...
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
While some may argue that the ReplayTV and Tivo protection flags for PPV content are not a big deal and easily dismissed, it may be a short sighted position to take. Similar protection flags are being implemented on HD content as well. It's quite likely that content owners will implement protection flags across any/all of their content in the attempt to protect profits that might be lost in DVD rentals and sales - or maybe just for fear of piracy. This would, of course, include many broadcast programs that have their programs offered to DVD - everything from Six Feet Under to Survivor. And of course, don't forget the marriage with NetFlix and the Video On Demand content they are aiming for. So while it may appear that only PPV is impacted, I wouldn't bet that it stays that way.
Another interesting thing to note is that when Tivo's general counsel was questioned about why Tivo did not stand up to Macrovision he stated:Sounds like Tivo was bargaining. But was it worth it? Basically they bargained your current features, which include the ability to build a perfectly legal library, for future products you might not even want.
Soon...
I've read several posts that have commented on other content options, primarily those that might spring up on the internet, and how they will never survive or even be desired. As the platform for video distribution moves to a broadband model the entertainment options will increase dramatically. If you look past the obvious result of every Tom, Dick, and Harry publishing content, you will see that there is a potential market for content production if the right distributor is partnered with. I'm sure AtomFilms, and those of similar ilk, are considering it.
But the existing Hollywood model is a broken one; I'll be bold enough to claim, unfixable. The creative people out there will develop something entirely new - a Hollywood competitor - and they will create better quality content for less money and provide it to global audiences. They will develop new protections, re-think salaries, crew size, development, money sources, etc. Given the platform, they will do this because it is easy, far easier than breaking into mainstream Hollywood, and probably more enjoyable. And we will love our "Must-Link TV".
"I don't understand the problem"
At my work, we have a guy who is basically an HTML coder. No, really. There still exists such jobs in 2004.
Lets call him "John".
Well, John is what I'd consider slightly "slow". Not retarded actually, but slow.
But you know what? He's the happiest guy I know. He has a wife 2 great kids, he has a house, and he is genuinely happy at everything, and he never understands the problem.
And that's good. Because he doesn't worry his pretty head over the stuff that drives regular guys crazy.
Just happy happy happy.
He doesn't understand the problem and he is *happy*.
You strike me as a very happy guy. And I consider that a lucky thing.
"It's a copyright violation, not a depriving-me-of-income violation."
That's a pretty recent law though.
it used to be okay to do this for personal use.
Still is, AFAIK.
Now that I think of it, I think you're talking out of your ass. You're allowed to do this for personal use.
And no, I never agreed to a EULA to watch PPV.
"I think $19.99 is a very good price for what I get on a DVD."
Its a terrible price.
I've not seen a single DVD movie that is worth more than 14.99.
I have to laugh at the idiots who go to Virgin and plunk down $25 for a TV. Might as well put a gun in their mouths and pull the trigger.
Oh, but you're clever. You only pay $20, and get a great deal! Wow! You're so smart?
Sucker.
"Like it or not, Hollywood is a huge industry which employs a massive amount of people. "
Its a big industry, but it pales in comparison to:
1) The Video Game industry
2) The electronics industry
3) The software industry
As far as employing people, you'll find they employee significantly less people than the software industry, they make less money, and they are not as important strategically as software.
Yet, Hollywood has the best lobbyist and the best ability to send shills like you to slashdot to make pseudo-intellectual bullshit posts like this to justify racketeering and extortion.
Shame on you.
"Fact? Can you tell me how, barring technical issues (ie., limited accessibility of printing presses, etc.) or the very rare charitable tip-jar, you can declare that there exists a factual underpinning to your statement?"
That's too easy.
1) CD's are trivial to copy
2) Most Americans can copy CD's easily
3) Most Americans can download free music from P2P network.
Yet:
A) CD Sales continue to sell well, despite the phony numbers posted by the RIAA members
B) CD Sales continue to sell well, despite the ease of downloading free versions from Kazaa, Bearshare, Gnutella et al
C) iTMS is doing very well, despite the presense of free alternatives.
So reality is smacking you in the face like a dead fish, you refuse to see it.
Do people consider you dense? Or just stubborn?
" Oh yeah Shakespeare did it all for the art. WTF are you talking about he did it for money."
Did he use copyright to make this money? DId he have the government shut down plays that copied his?
If not, by your reasoning, he could not make money.
Yet he did, therefore, your underlying argument must be false.
since the sky is obviously falling, politically, culturally, and intellectually in this country, you better start wearing a fucking hardhat.
Hardhat/tinfoil hat... Hardhat/tinfoil hat... arghh!
You know Tivo, Inc., when I bought my Tivo, it was for time-shifting the television shows I really wanted to watch, to pause live television, rewind it, and to save shows for as long as I wanted to keep them (The Daily Show, for example). Now, to offer me a new feature, which I didn't purchase the device for, in favor of letting Macrovision and its closely tied entertainment executives tamper with the features I actually did buy it for, is wrong of you.
Sure your Tivo Desktop is cool. Sure I would like to download Tivo recorded content to my PC or laptop. The problem is that's not what I bought a Tivo for and now you are starting to cripple the features that sold me on your product to begin with.
I would prefer you keep my Series 2 Tivo restriction free. Let me record whatever I want and keep it, don't delete it based on some other companies idea of how long I should have it.
Then you could create a separate product that does the Tivo Desktop for those that want it and find the content restrictions livable.
I am afraid, Tivo, Inc., you are going to regret this move you have made, because now hundreds or thousands of other content owners are going to rain down on you like hell fire to get you to add restrictions to their productions as well.
*TheDarb
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I read the Yahoo article a couple of times and it seems to discuss a technology not currently available in Tivo DVR's, realtime remote broadcasting. Is Tivo considering giving users the ability to watch live broadcast over the internet in a similar way to Sony's location free tv?