What I'm saying is that the time I first REALIZED what the clutter actually did. It happens all the time, I was recounting the time I first Realized it, hence the phrase "The time if finally hit me".
I get revelations all the time based on the serendipity of random convergence. And the other thing I presented was not the potential for an idea, but the opportunity increases with clutter. Could a person potentially come up with similar and creative ideas? Sure. The question isn't could, it is a matter of likelyhood of that random thought.
BTW, I would love to play poker with you, because you don't seem to understand the difference betwen drawing dead to a single card, and holding the nuts. Is it possible you might hit it? Sure, but is it likely? No.
Microsoft only seeks to control that which threatens its bread and butter.
In this case, the concept that AJAX presents is a killer app to the bread and butter business of Productivity Software. With AJAX one can create the software one needs, and there is no restrictions on client OS other than a browser that properly displays AJAX components.
Combine this with the idea from Adobe on sandboxing this in a wrapper for distribution away from Client/Server architecture which is completely platform independant, and you have a huge problem for Microsoft.
They are going to try to tie specific implementations to Proprietary products (Windows, IE etc).
Neatness is antithesis of creativity. While Clutter yields (at times) unexpected serendipitous convergence of seemingly un-related items.
My mother was a neat freak. A place for everything, and everything in its place. She could never understand how I knew where everything was in my piles of messes. Nor could she understand how I saw patterns in the seemingly random piles of stuff.
The time it finally hit me, was when I was looking for one thing or another (I don't remember the specifics, this was 25-30 years ago), I saw two things together, which suddenly gave me a brilliant idea of combination.
Now, if everything was in its place...ect... there would be no way I could have seen the new pattern. It would have been impossible. But because I saw the two things together, and saw something I never realized before, I was able to create some new idea.
Its like that movie Working Girl where the Melanie Griffith's charactor describes putting two un-related items together to solve a problem. In that case it was a wedding and someone wanting to get into TV Station Ownership.
Creativity often requires the serendipity of a confluence of unrelated items.
Up until you said "autoshop", I could swear that you worked for the same school system I do. I was seriously trying to figure out which guy you were. Seriously.
I don't know which is scarier, that I was bored enough to read down this far in the thread, or that there is another school system whose server room/boss/cubicle arraignment is nearly identical to the one where I work.
My PalmPilot is a "PC" by almost all measures. Is it IBM "Compatible"? Hardly. But neither are the Windows PC's of today, strictly speaking.
The term "PC" today means "Windows Personal Computer", not "IBM - Compatible". It has meant that for the last 15 years or so. Windows being Microsoft's Operating System. Which means PC is a Windows box for 99% of the people who call it a PC.:-D
Tell Granny she is going to lose SS and see what happens to Granny's vote. She is going to vote for the guy that say he'll protect SS. It is nothing more than Terrorism, but instead of guns to women and children, and blowing up delis, it is financial.
Same with the other side of the court. Tell Granny that the other guy wants illegal mexicans coming in to rob and rape her, and see who she is going to vote for.
Y wins, gets Z$ from X + the greater of Attorney Fees(X, Y)
Currently there is no incentive NOT to sue. You sue, you lose, more often than not, you are only out Attorney Fees.
Further, I would remove plaintiffs from collecting "Punitive Damages" as those should go to the State or into a fund to compensate victims of similar crimes/losses, where there is no Plaintiff to be found.
As the current system is empowered, most people view lawsuits like a rigged lottery.
"What level of respect do teachers deserve, and in what manner should we as a society ensure they get that respect?"
I'd respect the teachers a WHOLE bunch more, if they'd work on removing the bad teachers from teaching. But No, it is next to impossible to fire a teacher. I think the only way now, is to fsck a student or two, not sure though, since many just leave quietly to go to the next district.
Seriously, until the TEACHER UNIONS become about TEACHING rather than EMPLOYMENT and socialistic ideals such as "equal pay for equal work" when we know that not all Teaching is the same.
"We currently have a very limited number of people put into that formal role, and they collectively are not doing what we would consider an acceptable job at it. What should our response be?"
First? Fire the bad teachers, so that people of quality aren't ashamed to be called "Teacher" again. The responsibility is upon the parents for not demanding teachers who teach instead of six hour babysitters. The responsibility is for Schools to hire quality teachers, fire bad ones, and not bow down before Teacher Unions.
If I were running a school district, I'd offer two pay packages, one for Union Teachers, and a better one for teachers who aren't part of the problem. I'd tell the union to take a hike on making it a union shop. Let the members really vote.
I'd create one, two, five, and ten year contracts, based upon previous performance. First year teacher - one year contract. If they do good, next year, they get two year. If they do good, Five year, if they do adequatee, two years, if they do poorly, one or even gone. Ten year contracts are for consistant and excellent teachers.
I can't think of a better way to say to teachers that deserve it, "we value you" than merited contracts with good pay. Right now, all teachers get the same regardless, good teachers don't get rewarded, and bad teachers don't get fired.
"So, is this the best way to get the job done? Is this the way we respect our children's need for education, and the people who are put into the role of opening doors for the children?"
Right now? Children are the last people on everyone's mind. Everyone knows there are big problems with the system, but any suggestion that actually is good for the kids is summarily dismissed by the Unions and other special interest groups.
Let see, you offer an opinion, when countered with facts is dismissed as being irrelevant because there are no real facts that support the narrow definition you suggest. NONE. There is no case of general population who had a choice in education for their children in a modern society. None. So you are left with wishful opinions and stating them as facts is in fact.... a lie. Opinions are not facts, no matter how much you want them to be.
I actually find little difference between Neocons and the typical conservative Democrats. In fact, I dare say that most of the Democrats from 40+ years ago would not be at home in the current Democratic Party. I do agree with you that the Republican Party is filled with "neocons" who are not conservative by any measure, as they all support bigger government.
Again, I don't support the Rebublican Party in any measure. Nor do I support any of their leadership. I have very little in common with their goals and approach. I have even less in common with the socialists running the Democratic party.
I'm very much concerned with people's rights, and truly believe that people ought to have true Liberty, which requires self dicipline to maintain. The government can only take rights away, they cannot grant them. The moment people think that the Government can grant rights, is the moment they've lost them.
And I hate to inform you of this, but I didn't bring up Politics, you did. And your continued insults don't bother me. I don't need to resort to classless retorts and insults to make my case. I'm sorry you feel you have to.
" This report presents the results of the largest survey and testing program for students in home schools to date. In Spring 1998, 20,760 K-12 home school students in 11,930 families were administered either the Iowa Tests of Basic Skills (ITBS) or the Tests of Achievement and Proficiency (TAP), depending on their current grade. The parents responded to a questionnaire requesting background and demographic information. Major findings include: the achievement test scores of this group of home school students are exceptionally high--the median scores were typically in the 70th to 80th percentile; 25% of home school students are enrolled one or more grades above their age-level public and private school peers; this group of home school parents has more formal education than parents in the general population; the median income for home school families is significantly higher than that of all families with children in the United States; and almost all home school students are in married couple families. Because this was not a controlled experiment, the study does not demonstrate that home schooling is superior to public or private schools and the results must be interpreted with caution. The report clearly suggests, however, that home school students do quite well in that educational environment."
Of course you are free to disagree with the facts.
"It is that if everyone were home schooled, the level of education would decrease. "
Um, exactly where was this tested?
"The school budget here comes up for a public vote. If people didn't like the schools, they could close them all down with a routine public vote. But the people continually choose to keep them open. Despite any minor flaws, they are very effective and well worth the money. The government does many things right."
All opinions, not facts. Where vouchers have been introduced, quality goes up, costs go down, only to be overturned by the educational establishment elites, who often don't have their own kids in Public Schools. The flaws in schools today aren't minor, when you can't fire a teacher for not teaching.
"Maybe you'd like to tell me the overhead of the average mutual fund, then compare that level of overhead with the public run system. I'll answer the question for you, the administrative fees on the Social Security plan are less than privately managed mutual funds. Yes, that's right, the government is more efficient than the private sector."
Depends on the fund. 1%-6% overhead on mutual funds is common. Here in California, they passed Prop 223, trying to limit Administrative costs to 5%, because they are often much higher. So, I'm not sure where you are getting your information, perhaps a Teacher's Union?
"The prefix neo- refers to two ways in which neoconservatism was new. First, many of the movement's founders, originally liberals, Democrats or from socialist backgrounds, were new to conservatism."
"That you think otherwise indicates some break with reality, and proves you are incapable of rational thought on the matter."
Uh huh. Okay whatever you say. Because I can back up what I say with facts, and don't resort to name calling and you are not, I can see that you aren't up to rational discussion.
"I assumed that for there to be a test capable of properly judging the "worth" of a graduate, that this test would be applied to all equally and widely used."
Your assumption, not mine. Technically speaking, people graduating from USC and people graduating from some local state college with the same degree should have the same opportunity, because they both have a piece of paper that says so. However, we know that USC has different standards than the state college. Testing each after graduation is not... practical, and everyone knows it.
"Do you realize the great expense of coming up with tests? Do you realize the lack of worth in having every school have a different test when you are trying to monitor a single factor?"
Which is why I don't advocate standardized testing. Tests need to be "random" to be accurate, and even then, some people don't test well. So tests don't prove anything, only time / experience does.
What is interesting to me, is that you keep assuming something even though I have expressly said otherwise. I'm not supportive of standardized testing, in any way shape or form.
"You agree they are bad and can never be used to measure what you want, but they are the only way to measure what you want."
No it isn't. Since you cannot "measure it" it is futile to try. The only way to measure broad knowledge on the subject matter is experience. Usually by the age of 25 or so, that starts to take place, usually about the time people start to really become more specialized.
"As should any good Libertarian. That you say it with such a tone makes me think that you don't mind the massive spending and fiscal responsibility that every Libertarian should be objecting to."
Well, I don't think "Bush is Evil" anymore than I think "Clinton is Evil" or fill in the blank with any of the other prominent politicians available at the national level are. This is where I depart from nominal partisan politics. The vitriolic nature of partisanship doesn't solve any problems. Is Bush "evil"? Honestly I don't know. Some of what he does is evil, some of what he does is okay. Same with all the other politicians I can think of. Same goes with everybody I know, in fact, including me.
"Since most of the Libertarians I have met are really Republicans with a personal conflict with a specific Republican or some small part of the Republican platform, they are no different from Republicans."
I'm Libertarian, because I believe that Government should be used very sparingly, in all things. Government doesn't help in most situations. I don't agree with much of what "rebublicans" are doing, because most of them are truly NeoCons (Conservative Democrats), including our current President. I believe in personal responsibility, something that has all but disappeared in today's society, and the "blame everyone else" and "CYA" crap coming from both Democrats and Republicans.
"I believe it can be done with a much smaller government than we have now. Democrats think I'm a right-wing nut. Republicans think I'm a left-wing nut."
Actually, I think of myself as being so "right wing" that I'm coming up on the "Left wing" from the "left side". On many issues, I'm right there with the "far left", though usually not for the same reasons they are. On many issues I'm with the "far right", again, not for the same reasons they are.
"Then you aren't a libertarian, even if you are a Libertarian."
I'm Libertarian on principle. I can defend any of my positions based on the concept of Liberty and Self-Responsibility (Personal) and Self Control(Personal). Liberty cannot ever come from Government, only control can. Government should be a last resort, used only when Self-Responsibility and Self-Control have failed. My stands do not line up with either of the two parties, because right now, I can't tell the difference, other than the "I Hate Bush" vs "I Love Bush" chants from either side (it used to be Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy......)
Excuse me? I said NOTHING about standardized testing in any of my posts. That is something you read into my posts because you don't fully understand my position. Of course it is easier to demonize someone position if you define it for them.
In my case, standardized I believe testing is bogus. Testing, cannot be "standardized" in any meaningful way. Almost by definition when tests are "standardized" it cannot possibly test all possible combinations of knowledge / skill that ought to be known.
Standardized testing has another major flaw, it assumes that the playing field can be, and ought to be "level", that everyone can achieve the same level of learning. Indeed we know that people can't.
No Child Left Behind is probably good intentioned, but it is a continuation of the problem, that the "system" isn't broken, that it just needs "adjustments". The insanity is that we keep trying new and improved solutions to teaching and testing, yet aren't getting the results one would expect. Rather than deal with the issue, and admit the system is broken, we keep trying to fix something beyond repair.
But I can tell, by your response that you think "Bush is EVIL" (tm), and that public schools are not broken or at least are worthy of repair. They are broken, and there is no repair that will fix them. It would be more cost effective to scrap the system and build a new better one in place.
Actually, I'm not calling for more governement, but rather the exact opposite, less. More specifically, I'm calling for true LIBERTY rather than Government mandates. I'm Libertarian.
I'm interested where you think I'm calling for more government? Because I've reviewed my statements, and I don't think I ever mentioned any more government as a solution to any problem. More government is rarely the solution and its usually the "last" possible solution I would recommend.
"A $1200 product being sold for $75 is probably either a) not a $1200 product, or b) a scam,"
a) is true with Microsoft Products b) is also true because anything from Microsoft is a scam.
Therefore, your base choice is a false dichotomy, a logical fallacy. The conclusion "so this seems to have worked well." therefore isn't proven true. More than likely the product (antiphishing) is a scam, along with all their other products.
"Public schools are not responsible to the students and parents, they are also responsible to the community, state and federal government."
Yes, and it shows. Do you realize that this one statement is the compete indictment of the system? Public Schools are NOT repsonsible to the students or the parents, but a bunch of bureaucrats. Since when is that EVER a good thing?
"you are not evaluating my statements on the value of my statements."
But I am. The problem is, that while you know what the truth is, you don't see the problem. The problem is the system and the system is the problem. More of the system is not the solution, rather that is the definition of insanity; trying the same thing over and expecting different results.
"And the fact that you think that the schools are purposefully hurting students for cash makes me think you are irrational. "
I didn't say it was "purposeful". I am saying that is the result of the policies in place, a design flaw.
"The teachers and administrators care about the students. If they didn't they wouldn't take the low pay and lack of respect people like you give them."
SOME do, SOME don't. In one of my original posts, I outlined several examples (I could give more) of teachers who don't give a rats ass, and even when they do, they are often misguided and wrong. Too many in fact. And Administration has even less impact than it should because its hands are tied by Unions and Regulations. They can only do what they are allowed to do, and what they are allowed to do is highly controlled.
I know, remember I work for a school distict. I care, but it doesn't do me, or the school district a bit of good, because I cannot change the system. It is too far broken. Reporting the teachers I've seen screw up kids doesn't do a bit of good, because NOTHING can be done about it. Parents can't do anything because as you said "Public schools are not responsible to the students and parents", and they know it.
"Great, so rather than asking anyone why it isn't being done, you presume there is some evil conspiracy to hurt the children behind it."
Evil doesn't require a conspiracy.
"I know why it wasn't pushed in my school. There was an increased cost, difficulty in transportation for the students, unknown quality of the program, no coordination from the college to the high school to integrate classes for better integration, and many, many other such administrative reasons."
Evil requires exactly what you outlined. "Its Too Hard to do the right thing". You further make my point valid when you make the excuse "cost" and "quality". Cost shouldn't matter. And if you don't know the "quality" of the local college or university is by its accreditation status... I feel sorry for you and your schools.
I actually trust University over Public High Schools to actually teach people. Not that every university is perfect, because that isn't true either.
"But no, I'm sure it's all a conspiracy to sell the souls of the children to the devil for $5 each."
Nice personal jab. Is that how you win arguments in your school?
Slashdot Mirror
No.
What I'm saying is that the time I first REALIZED what the clutter actually did. It happens all the time, I was recounting the time I first Realized it, hence the phrase "The time if finally hit me".
I get revelations all the time based on the serendipity of random convergence. And the other thing I presented was not the potential for an idea, but the opportunity increases with clutter. Could a person potentially come up with similar and creative ideas? Sure. The question isn't could, it is a matter of likelyhood of that random thought.
BTW, I would love to play poker with you, because you don't seem to understand the difference betwen drawing dead to a single card, and holding the nuts. Is it possible you might hit it? Sure, but is it likely? No.
Microsoft only seeks to control that which threatens its bread and butter.
In this case, the concept that AJAX presents is a killer app to the bread and butter business of Productivity Software. With AJAX one can create the software one needs, and there is no restrictions on client OS other than a browser that properly displays AJAX components.
Combine this with the idea from Adobe on sandboxing this in a wrapper for distribution away from Client/Server architecture which is completely platform independant, and you have a huge problem for Microsoft.
They are going to try to tie specific implementations to Proprietary products (Windows, IE etc).
Resistance is Futile.
Neatness is antithesis of creativity. While Clutter yields (at times) unexpected serendipitous convergence of seemingly un-related items.
...ect ... there would be no way I could have seen the new pattern. It would have been impossible. But because I saw the two things together, and saw something I never realized before, I was able to create some new idea.
My mother was a neat freak. A place for everything, and everything in its place. She could never understand how I knew where everything was in my piles of messes. Nor could she understand how I saw patterns in the seemingly random piles of stuff.
The time it finally hit me, was when I was looking for one thing or another (I don't remember the specifics, this was 25-30 years ago), I saw two things together, which suddenly gave me a brilliant idea of combination.
Now, if everything was in its place
Its like that movie Working Girl where the Melanie Griffith's charactor describes putting two un-related items together to solve a problem. In that case it was a wedding and someone wanting to get into TV Station Ownership.
Creativity often requires the serendipity of a confluence of unrelated items.
Up until you said "autoshop", I could swear that you worked for the same school system I do. I was seriously trying to figure out which guy you were. Seriously.
I don't know which is scarier, that I was bored enough to read down this far in the thread, or that there is another school system whose server room/boss/cubicle arraignment is nearly identical to the one where I work.
It is nice to know that I'm not alone.
My PalmPilot is a "PC" by almost all measures. Is it IBM "Compatible"? Hardly. But neither are the Windows PC's of today, strictly speaking.
:-D
The term "PC" today means "Windows Personal Computer", not "IBM - Compatible". It has meant that for the last 15 years or so. Windows being Microsoft's Operating System. Which means PC is a Windows box for 99% of the people who call it a PC.
Tell Granny she is going to lose SS and see what happens to Granny's vote. She is going to vote for the guy that say he'll protect SS. It is nothing more than Terrorism, but instead of guns to women and children, and blowing up delis, it is financial.
Same with the other side of the court. Tell Granny that the other guy wants illegal mexicans coming in to rob and rape her, and see who she is going to vote for.
Y wins, they deserve to lose their shirts.
Replace X from "Little Guy" to SCO, and Y from MS to IBM and see if you now agree with me.
The system I would suggest is quite similar.
X sues Y for Z$
X wins, gets Z$
Y wins, gets Z$ from X + the greater of Attorney Fees(X, Y)
Currently there is no incentive NOT to sue. You sue, you lose, more often than not, you are only out Attorney Fees.
Further, I would remove plaintiffs from collecting "Punitive Damages" as those should go to the State or into a fund to compensate victims of similar crimes/losses, where there is no Plaintiff to be found.
As the current system is empowered, most people view lawsuits like a rigged lottery.
Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he'll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.
I actually fear my Senator more than Joe Shmoe Public. Congress is filled with TERRORISTS in my book.
1) Vote for me, I won't take away ________ (government subsidy) _______ (Political Opponent) willl!
2) Vote for me, I'll protect you from _______(enemy of the state), _________(Political Opponent) won't!
It is all "Terror" based politics.
You forgot drowning kittens.
Don't forget Joe Camel shoves cigarettes into young children's mouths.
"time, a dimension, didn't exist 'before the universe' "
...
"somebody more fresh elaborate"
Gen 1: In the beginning
Funny, how a physicist and someone from 4000 years ago, can say the same thing, and yet one is esteemed and the other is not.
What are "Hooters"? Aren't they "owls" ??? I don't get what's so funny.
I jest!
wow, see this. I was trying to be funny, but instead ...
7 0&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&cid=18281 790
http://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2257
The Math Teacher calculated that there was no chance of it succeeding and left for a job in another field.
The Science Teacher realize the whole situation was a huge black hole (it sucked), and headed in the other direction.
"What level of respect do teachers deserve, and in what manner should we as a society ensure they get that respect?"
I'd respect the teachers a WHOLE bunch more, if they'd work on removing the bad teachers from teaching. But No, it is next to impossible to fire a teacher. I think the only way now, is to fsck a student or two, not sure though, since many just leave quietly to go to the next district.
Seriously, until the TEACHER UNIONS become about TEACHING rather than EMPLOYMENT and socialistic ideals such as "equal pay for equal work" when we know that not all Teaching is the same.
"We currently have a very limited number of people put into that formal role, and they collectively are not doing what we would consider an acceptable job at it. What should our response be?"
First? Fire the bad teachers, so that people of quality aren't ashamed to be called "Teacher" again. The responsibility is upon the parents for not demanding teachers who teach instead of six hour babysitters. The responsibility is for Schools to hire quality teachers, fire bad ones, and not bow down before Teacher Unions.
If I were running a school district, I'd offer two pay packages, one for Union Teachers, and a better one for teachers who aren't part of the problem. I'd tell the union to take a hike on making it a union shop. Let the members really vote.
I'd create one, two, five, and ten year contracts, based upon previous performance. First year teacher - one year contract. If they do good, next year, they get two year. If they do good, Five year, if they do adequatee, two years, if they do poorly, one or even gone. Ten year contracts are for consistant and excellent teachers.
I can't think of a better way to say to teachers that deserve it, "we value you" than merited contracts with good pay. Right now, all teachers get the same regardless, good teachers don't get rewarded, and bad teachers don't get fired.
"So, is this the best way to get the job done? Is this the way we respect our children's need for education, and the people who are put into the role of opening doors for the children?"
Right now? Children are the last people on everyone's mind. Everyone knows there are big problems with the system, but any suggestion that actually is good for the kids is summarily dismissed by the Unions and other special interest groups.
Let see, you offer an opinion, when countered with facts is dismissed as being irrelevant because there are no real facts that support the narrow definition you suggest. NONE. There is no case of general population who had a choice in education for their children in a modern society. None. So you are left with wishful opinions and stating them as facts is in fact .... a lie. Opinions are not facts, no matter how much you want them to be.
I actually find little difference between Neocons and the typical conservative Democrats. In fact, I dare say that most of the Democrats from 40+ years ago would not be at home in the current Democratic Party. I do agree with you that the Republican Party is filled with "neocons" who are not conservative by any measure, as they all support bigger government.
Again, I don't support the Rebublican Party in any measure. Nor do I support any of their leadership. I have very little in common with their goals and approach. I have even less in common with the socialists running the Democratic party.
I'm very much concerned with people's rights, and truly believe that people ought to have true Liberty, which requires self dicipline to maintain. The government can only take rights away, they cannot grant them. The moment people think that the Government can grant rights, is the moment they've lost them.
And I hate to inform you of this, but I didn't bring up Politics, you did. And your continued insults don't bother me. I don't need to resort to classless retorts and insults to make my case. I'm sorry you feel you have to.
"And it has been shown that the education when people are taught in the home is inferior to the level which the government provides."
... http://epaa.asu.edu/epaa/v7n8/
Blatant lie. From
" This report presents the results of the largest survey and testing program for students in home schools to date. In Spring 1998, 20,760 K-12 home school students in 11,930 families were administered either the Iowa Tests of Basic Skills (ITBS) or the Tests of Achievement and Proficiency (TAP), depending on their current grade. The parents responded to a questionnaire requesting background and demographic information. Major findings include: the achievement test scores of this group of home school students are exceptionally high--the median scores were typically in the 70th to 80th percentile; 25% of home school students are enrolled one or more grades above their age-level public and private school peers; this group of home school parents has more formal education than parents in the general population; the median income for home school families is significantly higher than that of all families with children in the United States; and almost all home school students are in married couple families. Because this was not a controlled experiment, the study does not demonstrate that home schooling is superior to public or private schools and the results must be interpreted with caution. The report clearly suggests, however, that home school students do quite well in that educational environment."
Of course you are free to disagree with the facts.
"It is that if everyone were home schooled, the level of education would decrease. "
Um, exactly where was this tested?
"The school budget here comes up for a public vote. If people didn't like the schools, they could close them all down with a routine public vote. But the people continually choose to keep them open. Despite any minor flaws, they are very effective and well worth the money. The government does many things right."
All opinions, not facts. Where vouchers have been introduced, quality goes up, costs go down, only to be overturned by the educational establishment elites, who often don't have their own kids in Public Schools. The flaws in schools today aren't minor, when you can't fire a teacher for not teaching.
"Maybe you'd like to tell me the overhead of the average mutual fund, then compare that level of overhead with the public run system. I'll answer the question for you, the administrative fees on the Social Security plan are less than privately managed mutual funds. Yes, that's right, the government is more efficient than the private sector."
Depends on the fund. 1%-6% overhead on mutual funds is common. Here in California, they passed Prop 223, trying to limit Administrative costs to 5%, because they are often much higher. So, I'm not sure where you are getting your information, perhaps a Teacher's Union?
"NeoCons are unrelated to Democrats."
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservative
"The prefix neo- refers to two ways in which neoconservatism was new. First, many of the movement's founders, originally liberals, Democrats or from socialist backgrounds, were new to conservatism."
"That you think otherwise indicates some break with reality, and proves you are incapable of rational thought on the matter."
Uh huh. Okay whatever you say. Because I can back up what I say with facts, and don't resort to name calling and you are not, I can see that you aren't up to rational discussion.
"Fuck off, you nutjob."
Pot, meet kettle.
"I assumed that for there to be a test capable of properly judging the "worth" of a graduate, that this test would be applied to all equally and widely used."
... practical, and everyone knows it.
......)
Your assumption, not mine. Technically speaking, people graduating from USC and people graduating from some local state college with the same degree should have the same opportunity, because they both have a piece of paper that says so. However, we know that USC has different standards than the state college. Testing each after graduation is not
"Do you realize the great expense of coming up with tests? Do you realize the lack of worth in having every school have a different test when you are trying to monitor a single factor?"
Which is why I don't advocate standardized testing. Tests need to be "random" to be accurate, and even then, some people don't test well. So tests don't prove anything, only time / experience does.
What is interesting to me, is that you keep assuming something even though I have expressly said otherwise. I'm not supportive of standardized testing, in any way shape or form.
"You agree they are bad and can never be used to measure what you want, but they are the only way to measure what you want."
No it isn't. Since you cannot "measure it" it is futile to try. The only way to measure broad knowledge on the subject matter is experience. Usually by the age of 25 or so, that starts to take place, usually about the time people start to really become more specialized.
"As should any good Libertarian. That you say it with such a tone makes me think that you don't mind the massive spending and fiscal responsibility that every Libertarian should be objecting to."
Well, I don't think "Bush is Evil" anymore than I think "Clinton is Evil" or fill in the blank with any of the other prominent politicians available at the national level are. This is where I depart from nominal partisan politics. The vitriolic nature of partisanship doesn't solve any problems. Is Bush "evil"? Honestly I don't know. Some of what he does is evil, some of what he does is okay. Same with all the other politicians I can think of. Same goes with everybody I know, in fact, including me.
"Since most of the Libertarians I have met are really Republicans with a personal conflict with a specific Republican or some small part of the Republican platform, they are no different from Republicans."
I'm Libertarian, because I believe that Government should be used very sparingly, in all things. Government doesn't help in most situations. I don't agree with much of what "rebublicans" are doing, because most of them are truly NeoCons (Conservative Democrats), including our current President. I believe in personal responsibility, something that has all but disappeared in today's society, and the "blame everyone else" and "CYA" crap coming from both Democrats and Republicans.
"I believe it can be done with a much smaller government than we have now. Democrats think I'm a right-wing nut. Republicans think I'm a left-wing nut."
Actually, I think of myself as being so "right wing" that I'm coming up on the "Left wing" from the "left side". On many issues, I'm right there with the "far left", though usually not for the same reasons they are. On many issues I'm with the "far right", again, not for the same reasons they are.
"Then you aren't a libertarian, even if you are a Libertarian."
I'm Libertarian on principle. I can defend any of my positions based on the concept of Liberty and Self-Responsibility (Personal) and Self Control(Personal). Liberty cannot ever come from Government, only control can. Government should be a last resort, used only when Self-Responsibility and Self-Control have failed. My stands do not line up with either of the two parties, because right now, I can't tell the difference, other than the "I Hate Bush" vs "I Love Bush" chants from either side (it used to be Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy
I was going for "funny" not "inciteful" (pun intended).
Excuse me? I said NOTHING about standardized testing in any of my posts. That is something you read into my posts because you don't fully understand my position. Of course it is easier to demonize someone position if you define it for them.
In my case, standardized I believe testing is bogus. Testing, cannot be "standardized" in any meaningful way. Almost by definition when tests are "standardized" it cannot possibly test all possible combinations of knowledge / skill that ought to be known.
Standardized testing has another major flaw, it assumes that the playing field can be, and ought to be "level", that everyone can achieve the same level of learning. Indeed we know that people can't.
No Child Left Behind is probably good intentioned, but it is a continuation of the problem, that the "system" isn't broken, that it just needs "adjustments". The insanity is that we keep trying new and improved solutions to teaching and testing, yet aren't getting the results one would expect. Rather than deal with the issue, and admit the system is broken, we keep trying to fix something beyond repair.
But I can tell, by your response that you think "Bush is EVIL" (tm), and that public schools are not broken or at least are worthy of repair. They are broken, and there is no repair that will fix them. It would be more cost effective to scrap the system and build a new better one in place.
Actually, I'm not calling for more governement, but rather the exact opposite, less. More specifically, I'm calling for true LIBERTY rather than Government mandates. I'm Libertarian.
I'm interested where you think I'm calling for more government? Because I've reviewed my statements, and I don't think I ever mentioned any more government as a solution to any problem. More government is rarely the solution and its usually the "last" possible solution I would recommend.
"A $1200 product being sold for $75 is probably either a) not a $1200 product, or b) a scam,"
a) is true with Microsoft Products
b) is also true because anything from Microsoft is a scam.
Therefore, your base choice is a false dichotomy, a logical fallacy. The conclusion "so this seems to have worked well." therefore isn't proven true. More than likely the product (antiphishing) is a scam, along with all their other products.
"Public schools are not responsible to the students and parents, they are also responsible to the community, state and federal government."
... I feel sorry for you and your schools.
Yes, and it shows. Do you realize that this one statement is the compete indictment of the system? Public Schools are NOT repsonsible to the students or the parents, but a bunch of bureaucrats. Since when is that EVER a good thing?
"you are not evaluating my statements on the value of my statements."
But I am. The problem is, that while you know what the truth is, you don't see the problem. The problem is the system and the system is the problem. More of the system is not the solution, rather that is the definition of insanity; trying the same thing over and expecting different results.
"And the fact that you think that the schools are purposefully hurting students for cash makes me think you are irrational. "
I didn't say it was "purposeful". I am saying that is the result of the policies in place, a design flaw.
"The teachers and administrators care about the students. If they didn't they wouldn't take the low pay and lack of respect people like you give them."
SOME do, SOME don't. In one of my original posts, I outlined several examples (I could give more) of teachers who don't give a rats ass, and even when they do, they are often misguided and wrong. Too many in fact. And Administration has even less impact than it should because its hands are tied by Unions and Regulations. They can only do what they are allowed to do, and what they are allowed to do is highly controlled.
I know, remember I work for a school distict. I care, but it doesn't do me, or the school district a bit of good, because I cannot change the system. It is too far broken. Reporting the teachers I've seen screw up kids doesn't do a bit of good, because NOTHING can be done about it. Parents can't do anything because as you said "Public schools are not responsible to the students and parents", and they know it.
"Great, so rather than asking anyone why it isn't being done, you presume there is some evil conspiracy to hurt the children behind it."
Evil doesn't require a conspiracy.
"I know why it wasn't pushed in my school. There was an increased cost, difficulty in transportation for the students, unknown quality of the program, no coordination from the college to the high school to integrate classes for better integration, and many, many other such administrative reasons."
Evil requires exactly what you outlined. "Its Too Hard to do the right thing". You further make my point valid when you make the excuse "cost" and "quality". Cost shouldn't matter. And if you don't know the "quality" of the local college or university is by its accreditation status
I actually trust University over Public High Schools to actually teach people. Not that every university is perfect, because that isn't true either.
"But no, I'm sure it's all a conspiracy to sell the souls of the children to the devil for $5 each."
Nice personal jab. Is that how you win arguments in your school?