The point you're missing is that I personally don't want a charms bar. I want the ability to display multiple windows, running multiple tasks, on my multicore desktop machine.
Windows 8 provides this. 99% of the time I am on the desktop, and during that time, Windows 8 functions exactly like Windows 7. The only obvious difference is the lack of a start menu, but this can be added back by one of the numerous replacements out there already (start8, vistart, classic shell etc.).
Where as in previous version, you just needed to press the windows key and start typing.
The behavior in Windows 8 is identical. Press the windows key and start typing, and you are presented with search.
I've been using MS products since the early 90's. I don't need an OS that decides to change the layout of everything, just so it can try to treat me like an idiot.
Microsoft changed UIs drastically right when you started using Windows then. And they changed it again in 1995. And now they're changing it again. I'm sure every point along the way there were people screaming that they didn't want change and they didn't want to be treated like an idiots. I seem to remember arguments about how a GUI is inferior to a CLI, and GUI is just dumbing down the interface for idiot users.... in fact we still have those arguments! But imagine if we listened to the proponents of the CLI and just forgot about the GUI.... UI today would be stuck in the 80s! I'm not saying that the new metro interface will have any impact comparable to that of the advent of the GUI, but it should hardly be dismissed outright at its onset because it is different from its predecessor.
even my 70 year old mother has had enough experience of windows to not need hand holding anymore.
I'm glad your 70 year old mother can handle it, but mine cannot. She still has trouble with concepts like right click and double click. However she uses her kindle, iPad and iPhone just fine. I installed Windows 8 on her PC recently and she enjoys that as well; it fits her usage pattern of one app at a time... mostly social stuff, email, games, and Internet browsing. I suspect your 70 year old mother, and many others have the same needs.
Not to say Windows 8 is an OS for old people, but it’s I think metro is an interface for people who want their computer to be more appliance-like... like their iPhone or iPad. Many people know how to use windows insofar as they know which icon to click to launch an application. But they are too afraid of breaking their computer or making a change that they cannot undo, so they don’t explore or enjoy their machine to its full potential. The iPad has changed that perception for people, making them realize that computing can be fun and friendly. I think Microsoft is trying to do the same thing with Windows, and judging from the reactions I’ve personally seen they are doing a fine job. What’s left to see is how the rest of the market, the people I’m not personally seeing, respond.
Maybe they could have just left it in the same fucking place it's been for over a decade?
And where exactly is that? I can pull up a dozen applications, and perhaps I’ll end up with half a dozen ideas on where to locate the application settings or search functionality.
Sorry, I think you misunderstand. The offer is for any computer running Windows 8 Pro. The $15 upgrade offer from Windows 7 (all versions except starter) are to Windows 8 Pro. It doesn't matter what you paid. My key was free and I got the media center add-on fine.
See here: "Buy a Windows 7 PC and get Windows 8 Pro for $14.99.... A qualified PC is a new PC purchased during the promotional period with a valid Windows 7 OEM Certificate of Authenticity and product key for, and preinstalled with: Windows 7 Home Basic; Windows 7 Home Premium; Windows 7 Professional; or Windows 7 Ultimate."
That's an ad in a free ad-supported game. There are other free ones without ads and pay ones as well. There are also ads in some apps with ad supported content (news,sports,finance). This is standard on any platform, so I'm not sure what the complaint is in that regard, but I still have not seen an ad in an actual live tile.
The charms menu as I think of it is really the start menu replacement for Windows 8. I would describe the start menu in Windows 7 as a central launching point for apps, search, devices, and settings/administration. This definition does not fit the start screen in Windows 8 (the only thing the start menu and start screen really have in common is that they launch apps), but does indeed apply to the charms bar. The charm bar does search, sharing, settings, and also has a point of entry to launch programs. So it is as integral to Windows 8 as the start menu is to Windows 7.
In any metro app you can of course have a tool bar or buttons. But the point of the charms bar is that some critical functions are standardized across applications: namely search, share, devices, and settings. In many desktop applications, critical functions like settings are sometimes hard to find and in different places: Is it file->settings or edit->preferences? Or both? Depending on which it is also affects keyboard shortcuts. It's always the same in Windows 8.
Having a centralized location for search is also useful, because if you are in one app you can search in another app and immediately see the results instead of leaving the app, launching the second app, and then selecting the search function.
An app's functionality belongs in the app, not off in some "charm" somewhere (which charm is it in? Scavenger hunt time!)
Scavenger hunt time? There is only one charms bar, so there's only one place to go on this "scavenger hunt" and it's exceedingly obvious which one the search is... namely the magnifying glass (universal symbol for search) with the word "Search" under it. Any new user of Windows 8 is instructed where this charm bar is the first time they sign on to Windows 8, so it's hardly a mystery as to where it is and how to access it.
As for the functionality belonging in the app, I'm not sure how you figure it's not in the app. You can access search with one click or a keyboard shortcut (win+q), and it's in the same place in all apps. I'd say describing finding search in a classic desktop application as a scavenger hunt is more apt. Is it on the toolbar? help menu? file menu? edit menu? is it called search or find? At least in Windows 8 apps it's always in the same spot.
Yes. It's like using the term "Start menu" to someone who has only used DOS. The charm bar is the replacement for the start menu in Windows 8, not the start screen. The charm bar contains functions for apps, search, devices, and settings just like the start menu. The start screen in windows 8 is more akin to the quick launch area of the Windows 7 start menu. I say the similarities between the start menu and the start screen begin and end with the word "Start" appearing in the names.
I'm not aware of any app that shows ads in its tile. If I were to come across one, it would be deleted immediately. As far as I'm aware, tiles only display content.
I think the Windows AppStore is a POS (can't search, WTF) and Metro/Charms are a disaster on a desktop.
Your hate for charms has caused you to miss their (quite useful in my opinion) purpose. The charms are specific to the app you're in. Thus to search the Windows Store, use the search charm. See how it defaults to the windows store app (you can also search any app from any other app)? Likewise, the settings charm while in the Windows Store reveals settings for the Windows Store app.
I have Slashdot in my newsfeed for the science and technology post. I don't normally comment on these posts because of my lack of understanding of some of the topics, and honestly, as of late the number of +5 insightful/informative comments in such stories has receded and what's left is +5 funny geek jokes.
But compared to most any other site, this one has a disproportionately high number of article trolling or flaming Microsoft products. I own a number of Microsoft products and purchased them willingly, after comparing them to the alternatives. The sheer number of ignorant comments on these stories is absolutely astounding to me, as it's clear most commenters have never even used the products or services they are deriding..
So yes, I consider myself a Microsoft fan in that I've found Microsoft products consistently meet my needs and are of high quality compared to the alternatives I've tried. I consider a fanboy to be someone who has blind affiliation for a company, and in that regard I do not consider myself one, as I've had extensive experience with other products; I use Linux and Android daily in my work (robotics), so I know what the alternatives offer. However, despite this, and despite informing commenters on this site as such, I'm still constantly branded a shill, fanboy, or any number of labels and ad hominem attacks to try and discredit my opinion. I honestly try my best to make my comments informative. correct misconceptions, and reply thoughtfully and thoroughly to those who engage me in a debate on the merits, but that sort of behavior doesn't seem to be tolerated by the majority here as long as it relates to Microsoft.
Either this, or the so called "shills" are actually simply trolls. The responses to these posts are so predictable and so numerous it's really like shooting fish in a barrel.
I think Samsung is just reading the tea leaves. With the iPhone 4, Apple used to source components such as SDRAM, NAND flash, and CPU from Samsung. With the iPhone 5, they've dropped Samsung as suppliers of commodity chips, and now they're only sourcing the A6 processor from Samsung.
One might reasonably project that with the iPhone 6 or 5s or whatever it will be, Apple will drop Samsung altogether. Samsung might as well milk Apple while they can.
Fact the first: Adverts within an application consume display space, and in smaller screens, this becomes more apparent.
Most of the ads in question are innocuous. For example, in the weather app, the single ad is after all the relevant data, past monthly averages. You don't see any ads in the forecast or radar. Same with the finance app. I use these apps without ever seeing ads.
Fact the second: Adverts require that you be a bit more careful with your mouse/finger/stylus/whatever, lest you accidentally click on the advert and interrupt what you're doing (especially if you're playing a game or other activity that has a high chance of random clickage).
True. But again most of the ads are not embedded in content. If you're concerned about a free game with ads, perhaps consider paying money for the paid version of said game. Nothing is really free.
Fact the third: Ads in paid-for/included applications, delivered by the OS maker, cannot be rationalized, especially since the competition does no such thing.
Apps like news and sports republish content from 200+ sources, and Microsoft likely needs to pay a good portion of these. The same goes for free music streaming in the Music app. Want to listen to full albums for free? Then you have to listen to or watch an occasional ad. There's really no good ground to complain about advertisements in places like this. No other OS maker does this because no other OS maker offers similar services like free music streaming.
Fact the fourth:: Even if you do not use it (them), you are stuck with the application(s) residing on your hard drive, taking up space, and potentially running in the background, which would consume both CPU and networking bandwidth.
No you are not. You can uninstall any of the included apps. If you don't want to, you can restrict which apps run in the background right in the control panel on a per app basis. Further, all apps by default have a very strict list of services they can access while backgrounded. I can't think of any app which would serve ads while backgrounded except the music app, which loads ads between streaming tracks.
Fact the fifth: You as a consumer were not made aware of this intrusion until after you purchased the item, and since it is software, good luck getting a refund on it from either OEM or OS maker.
Every single app with advertisements is free and can be uninstalled easily (You don't even need to go to the control panel. Just right click -> uninstall). You as the consumer paid nothing for these apps, and in fact one would hope that the cost of their development and maintenance is completely offset by ads they serve. You're not being "intruded on" in any way... it's not as if there are ads in the file manager between your files, or in your local desktop searches (unlike Ubuntu)
I'm sorry but I don't really understand your complaint. Are you saying you were playing your own music and full screen ads came up between tracks? That has never happened to me. The only time I've gotten ads is when I'm streaming music from the music store. If you're doing the latter and listening to full music tracks for free, how can you complain about ads?
It's also trivially easy to avoid the music store in Windows 8. In the app, go to Settings -> Prefereces -> and switch "Startup View: When the app opens, show my music" to on.
After that, you'll never see the music store unless you go to it, and you won't get any ads while playing your own music. If you want to stream full length songs for free, then yes, you will have to listen to ads. I don't see how this is something to complain about though.
Ads in the weather app (or more aptly, the single static image ad) are all the way at the end, past all the data. They're not exactly intrusive; there isn't even an add on the current conditions and forecast data. You only see it if you want to look at the monthly historical rainfall and temperature data. Nonetheless if you want a free app without ads, there are a few available on the Windows store.
He made a name for himself in 2008, and is now on one of the most viewed news sites out there. electionprojection.com isn't exactly the New York Times. Because of this he got appearances on the Daily Show, Morning Joe, Real Time, and other TV shows; now he's kind of a personality, especially among uber nerds who identify with his nerdy demeanor.
Last minute polls on the last day of the race brought the state to 50 - 50 odds. Given the fact the state is still too close to call two days after the election, Nate seems to have called it no matter which who ultimately gets the electoral votes.
What do you want? I like Windows 8 and there are a slew of stories being posted seeing as that it's being released on Friday. Hence I post on them because the topic interests me and I can add to the discussion.
and all his crap, applications, pictures of his dog, his porn... that all gets dumped on my PC?
No. The settings that are synced are: Personalization, Accessibility, Language Settings, Application Settings, Explorer Settings, Windows Settings, Credentials. All his pictures and media are available by way of skydrive. Apps must be installed separately (although it takes two clicks), Further, an admin has to create the account; you can't just log into any machine with your windows ID.
Slashdot Mirror
What does that make a Charm Quark?
The point you're missing is that I personally don't want a charms bar. I want the ability to display multiple windows, running multiple tasks, on my multicore desktop machine.
Windows 8 provides this. 99% of the time I am on the desktop, and during that time, Windows 8 functions exactly like Windows 7. The only obvious difference is the lack of a start menu, but this can be added back by one of the numerous replacements out there already (start8, vistart, classic shell etc.).
Where as in previous version, you just needed to press the windows key and start typing.
The behavior in Windows 8 is identical. Press the windows key and start typing, and you are presented with search.
I've been using MS products since the early 90's. I don't need an OS that decides to change the layout of everything, just so it can try to treat me like an idiot.
Microsoft changed UIs drastically right when you started using Windows then. And they changed it again in 1995. And now they're changing it again. I'm sure every point along the way there were people screaming that they didn't want change and they didn't want to be treated like an idiots. I seem to remember arguments about how a GUI is inferior to a CLI, and GUI is just dumbing down the interface for idiot users.... in fact we still have those arguments! But imagine if we listened to the proponents of the CLI and just forgot about the GUI.... UI today would be stuck in the 80s! I'm not saying that the new metro interface will have any impact comparable to that of the advent of the GUI, but it should hardly be dismissed outright at its onset because it is different from its predecessor.
even my 70 year old mother has had enough experience of windows to not need hand holding anymore.
I'm glad your 70 year old mother can handle it, but mine cannot. She still has trouble with concepts like right click and double click. However she uses her kindle, iPad and iPhone just fine. I installed Windows 8 on her PC recently and she enjoys that as well; it fits her usage pattern of one app at a time... mostly social stuff, email, games, and Internet browsing. I suspect your 70 year old mother, and many others have the same needs.
Not to say Windows 8 is an OS for old people, but it’s I think metro is an interface for people who want their computer to be more appliance-like... like their iPhone or iPad. Many people know how to use windows insofar as they know which icon to click to launch an application. But they are too afraid of breaking their computer or making a change that they cannot undo, so they don’t explore or enjoy their machine to its full potential. The iPad has changed that perception for people, making them realize that computing can be fun and friendly. I think Microsoft is trying to do the same thing with Windows, and judging from the reactions I’ve personally seen they are doing a fine job. What’s left to see is how the rest of the market, the people I’m not personally seeing, respond.
Maybe they could have just left it in the same fucking place it's been for over a decade?
And where exactly is that? I can pull up a dozen applications, and perhaps I’ll end up with half a dozen ideas on where to locate the application settings or search functionality.
Sorry, I think you misunderstand. The offer is for any computer running Windows 8 Pro. The $15 upgrade offer from Windows 7 (all versions except starter) are to Windows 8 Pro. It doesn't matter what you paid. My key was free and I got the media center add-on fine.
See here: "Buy a Windows 7 PC and get Windows 8 Pro for $14.99.... A qualified PC is a new PC purchased during the promotional period with a valid Windows 7 OEM Certificate of Authenticity and product key for, and preinstalled with: Windows 7 Home Basic; Windows 7 Home Premium; Windows 7 Professional; or Windows 7 Ultimate."
That's an ad in a free ad-supported game. There are other free ones without ads and pay ones as well. There are also ads in some apps with ad supported content (news,sports,finance). This is standard on any platform, so I'm not sure what the complaint is in that regard, but I still have not seen an ad in an actual live tile.
DVD playback is solved easily with VLC. You should have this anyway.
As for Media Center, this might interest you: http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/25/3553686/microsoft-free-media-center-upgrade-for-windows-8-pro-users
The charms menu as I think of it is really the start menu replacement for Windows 8. I would describe the start menu in Windows 7 as a central launching point for apps, search, devices, and settings/administration. This definition does not fit the start screen in Windows 8 (the only thing the start menu and start screen really have in common is that they launch apps), but does indeed apply to the charms bar. The charm bar does search, sharing, settings, and also has a point of entry to launch programs. So it is as integral to Windows 8 as the start menu is to Windows 7.
In any metro app you can of course have a tool bar or buttons. But the point of the charms bar is that some critical functions are standardized across applications: namely search, share, devices, and settings. In many desktop applications, critical functions like settings are sometimes hard to find and in different places: Is it file->settings or edit->preferences? Or both? Depending on which it is also affects keyboard shortcuts. It's always the same in Windows 8.
Having a centralized location for search is also useful, because if you are in one app you can search in another app and immediately see the results instead of leaving the app, launching the second app, and then selecting the search function.
An app's functionality belongs in the app, not off in some "charm" somewhere (which charm is it in? Scavenger hunt time!)
Scavenger hunt time? There is only one charms bar, so there's only one place to go on this "scavenger hunt" and it's exceedingly obvious which one the search is... namely the magnifying glass (universal symbol for search) with the word "Search" under it. Any new user of Windows 8 is instructed where this charm bar is the first time they sign on to Windows 8, so it's hardly a mystery as to where it is and how to access it.
As for the functionality belonging in the app, I'm not sure how you figure it's not in the app. You can access search with one click or a keyboard shortcut (win+q), and it's in the same place in all apps. I'd say describing finding search in a classic desktop application as a scavenger hunt is more apt. Is it on the toolbar? help menu? file menu? edit menu? is it called search or find? At least in Windows 8 apps it's always in the same spot.
Yes. It's like using the term "Start menu" to someone who has only used DOS. The charm bar is the replacement for the start menu in Windows 8, not the start screen. The charm bar contains functions for apps, search, devices, and settings just like the start menu. The start screen in windows 8 is more akin to the quick launch area of the Windows 7 start menu. I say the similarities between the start menu and the start screen begin and end with the word "Start" appearing in the names.
I'm not aware of any app that shows ads in its tile. If I were to come across one, it would be deleted immediately. As far as I'm aware, tiles only display content.
I think the Windows AppStore is a POS (can't search, WTF) and Metro/Charms are a disaster on a desktop.
Your hate for charms has caused you to miss their (quite useful in my opinion) purpose. The charms are specific to the app you're in. Thus to search the Windows Store, use the search charm. See how it defaults to the windows store app (you can also search any app from any other app)? Likewise, the settings charm while in the Windows Store reveals settings for the Windows Store app.
I have Slashdot in my newsfeed for the science and technology post. I don't normally comment on these posts because of my lack of understanding of some of the topics, and honestly, as of late the number of +5 insightful/informative comments in such stories has receded and what's left is +5 funny geek jokes.
But compared to most any other site, this one has a disproportionately high number of article trolling or flaming Microsoft products. I own a number of Microsoft products and purchased them willingly, after comparing them to the alternatives. The sheer number of ignorant comments on these stories is absolutely astounding to me, as it's clear most commenters have never even used the products or services they are deriding..
So yes, I consider myself a Microsoft fan in that I've found Microsoft products consistently meet my needs and are of high quality compared to the alternatives I've tried. I consider a fanboy to be someone who has blind affiliation for a company, and in that regard I do not consider myself one, as I've had extensive experience with other products; I use Linux and Android daily in my work (robotics), so I know what the alternatives offer. However, despite this, and despite informing commenters on this site as such, I'm still constantly branded a shill, fanboy, or any number of labels and ad hominem attacks to try and discredit my opinion. I honestly try my best to make my comments informative. correct misconceptions, and reply thoughtfully and thoroughly to those who engage me in a debate on the merits, but that sort of behavior doesn't seem to be tolerated by the majority here as long as it relates to Microsoft.
Either this, or the so called "shills" are actually simply trolls. The responses to these posts are so predictable and so numerous it's really like shooting fish in a barrel.
What exactly is the point of a standard then, if everyone is forced to use the same rendering engine?
I think Samsung is just reading the tea leaves. With the iPhone 4, Apple used to source components such as SDRAM, NAND flash, and CPU from Samsung. With the iPhone 5, they've dropped Samsung as suppliers of commodity chips, and now they're only sourcing the A6 processor from Samsung.
One might reasonably project that with the iPhone 6 or 5s or whatever it will be, Apple will drop Samsung altogether. Samsung might as well milk Apple while they can.
That's the iPhone 4. The iPhone 5's A6 chip (two generations newer) costs an estimated $17.50. So a 20% increase is $3.50.
http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/Pages/Many-iPhone-5-Components-Change-But-Most-Suppliers-Remain-the-Same-Teardown-Reveals.aspx
Fact the first: Adverts within an application consume display space, and in smaller screens, this becomes more apparent.
Most of the ads in question are innocuous. For example, in the weather app, the single ad is after all the relevant data, past monthly averages. You don't see any ads in the forecast or radar. Same with the finance app. I use these apps without ever seeing ads.
Fact the second: Adverts require that you be a bit more careful with your mouse/finger/stylus/whatever, lest you accidentally click on the advert and interrupt what you're doing (especially if you're playing a game or other activity that has a high chance of random clickage).
True. But again most of the ads are not embedded in content. If you're concerned about a free game with ads, perhaps consider paying money for the paid version of said game. Nothing is really free.
Fact the third: Ads in paid-for/included applications, delivered by the OS maker, cannot be rationalized, especially since the competition does no such thing.
Apps like news and sports republish content from 200+ sources, and Microsoft likely needs to pay a good portion of these. The same goes for free music streaming in the Music app. Want to listen to full albums for free? Then you have to listen to or watch an occasional ad. There's really no good ground to complain about advertisements in places like this. No other OS maker does this because no other OS maker offers similar services like free music streaming.
Fact the fourth:: Even if you do not use it (them), you are stuck with the application(s) residing on your hard drive, taking up space, and potentially running in the background, which would consume both CPU and networking bandwidth.
No you are not. You can uninstall any of the included apps. If you don't want to, you can restrict which apps run in the background right in the control panel on a per app basis. Further, all apps by default have a very strict list of services they can access while backgrounded. I can't think of any app which would serve ads while backgrounded except the music app, which loads ads between streaming tracks.
Fact the fifth: You as a consumer were not made aware of this intrusion until after you purchased the item, and since it is software, good luck getting a refund on it from either OEM or OS maker.
Every single app with advertisements is free and can be uninstalled easily (You don't even need to go to the control panel. Just right click -> uninstall). You as the consumer paid nothing for these apps, and in fact one would hope that the cost of their development and maintenance is completely offset by ads they serve. You're not being "intruded on" in any way... it's not as if there are ads in the file manager between your files, or in your local desktop searches (unlike Ubuntu)
I'm sorry but I don't really understand your complaint. Are you saying you were playing your own music and full screen ads came up between tracks? That has never happened to me. The only time I've gotten ads is when I'm streaming music from the music store. If you're doing the latter and listening to full music tracks for free, how can you complain about ads?
If you want to listen to your own music, you have to scroll the screen to the left
There's an option to start at your music library. Settings -> Preferences -> Startup View
It's also trivially easy to avoid the music store in Windows 8. In the app, go to Settings -> Prefereces -> and switch "Startup View: When the app opens, show my music" to on.
After that, you'll never see the music store unless you go to it, and you won't get any ads while playing your own music. If you want to stream full length songs for free, then yes, you will have to listen to ads. I don't see how this is something to complain about though.
Ads in the weather app (or more aptly, the single static image ad) are all the way at the end, past all the data. They're not exactly intrusive; there isn't even an add on the current conditions and forecast data. You only see it if you want to look at the monthly historical rainfall and temperature data. Nonetheless if you want a free app without ads, there are a few available on the Windows store.
False. http://i46.tinypic.com/9fuo85.png
He made a name for himself in 2008, and is now on one of the most viewed news sites out there. electionprojection.com isn't exactly the New York Times. Because of this he got appearances on the Daily Show, Morning Joe, Real Time, and other TV shows; now he's kind of a personality, especially among uber nerds who identify with his nerdy demeanor.
Last minute polls on the last day of the race brought the state to 50 - 50 odds. Given the fact the state is still too close to call two days after the election, Nate seems to have called it no matter which who ultimately gets the electoral votes.
What do you want? I like Windows 8 and there are a slew of stories being posted seeing as that it's being released on Friday. Hence I post on them because the topic interests me and I can add to the discussion.
and all his crap, applications, pictures of his dog, his porn... that all gets dumped on my PC?
No. The settings that are synced are: Personalization, Accessibility, Language Settings, Application Settings, Explorer Settings, Windows Settings, Credentials. All his pictures and media are available by way of skydrive. Apps must be installed separately (although it takes two clicks), Further, an admin has to create the account; you can't just log into any machine with your windows ID.
False: http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/pages/downgrade_rights.aspx#fbid=6f6BiZDWOvZ