Slashdot Mirror
Windows 8 Sales Below Projections
harrymcc writes "With early reports on Windows 8 sales indicating that the new operating system is off to a slow start, it's worth pondering what Microsoft could have done differently. Over at TIME.com, I considered several different scenarios, ranging from one in which it released a much more conventional Windows upgrade to one which would have been much like like the Windows 8 we got — except with the ability to boot directly into the desktop, complete with Start button."
Hopefully only about 10 people will buy it.
that is pretty telling of what they should have done differently.
We didn't need another OS. Windows 7 was still alive and well, by releasing Windows 8 they only confused / distracted the current user base. I can't even count how many people have asked me what is special about Windows 8, besides the horrible new desktop I honestly can't really saying anything. No one is ready to upgrade from 7 to 8, if they waited another year or two then the outcome would be different, they haven't given people the chance to want something new.
How about a Windows 8, Developer Edition? A version that doesn't have Metro, just the basic start menu and trimmed-down version of their operating system specifically designed for software developers and gamers who want power and efficiency, not pretty sliding menus. I would rather my computer's RAM be occupied by the far-odd blocks on Minecraft than a smooth windows frame for some gidget that I never wanted, nor will I ever use.
sudo make me a sandwich
obviously sales of Surface are cannibalizing Windows 8 sales.
bazinga!
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
... to boot directly to desktop and a w7 style start menu for desktop users would have made w8 a no-brainer upgrade for me, and I'm sure a lot of other windows users.
I bought Windows 8 Pro Upgrades for both my laptop and desktop. I hated it so much I went back to Windows 7 after a week. Some people seem rabidly fond of Windows 8, the new interface and all its new features. There are a few improvements, but I really can't stand the desktop interface and the "Metro" start menu. I literally breathed a sigh of relief when I got Windows 7 back on here and got to use my compact non-full-screen start menu again. I wish I could return them now; if not for the money, but to send a message. "Windows 8 is this year's Windows Vista! It's broke and only fanboys like it!"
I've been reading a lot of positive Windows 8 press of late. Much of it is positive, so much so that I've grown suspicious of it. Now here's a real life data point to consider.
How hard is it to press the "Desktop" tile when it boots up? LOL...
I'm quite happy with my OSX/Win7/OpenSUSE setup, but I had to test a Windows 8 Touch Screen (Dell Inspiron something or other) and I'll be honest, I thought I would HATE Windows 8 tiles, but they're actually pretty cool once you invest the 5 minutes to figure out how to do all the stuff you used to do in Windows 7.
My Windows 8 test machine has a 'Desktop' tile that takes me straight to desktop.
I agree it would be nice, for the sake of completeness, to totally bypass tiles, but if I was Micro$oft I wouldn't either. People need to move forward, otherwise keep using Windows 7.
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Windows, every other iteration. XP good, Vista bad, 7 good, 8 bad. 9 ??? They have a special knack for stumbling on something good and then massively screwing it up the next go around.
I don't have much of a reason to switch to Windows 8. I understand there are a few performance benefits and a couple of nifty tie-ins, maybe an app or two, and the new Start screen which isn't *that* bad. But Windows 7 is working just fine. Why upgrade?
Why do we have these same news reports every time MS releases a new operating system?
The truth is that Windows 7 (and even Windows XP) is more than sufficient for most users. For that matter, a ChromeBook is sufficient for "most" users that really need only a web browser. I work in IT during the day and do some software development so I use a computer and applications heavily at work, but when I'm home, a Chromebook would do pretty much anything I need a computer for. I'm not into gaming and haven't purchased software for my home laptop in years - I've bought a lot more apps for my phone than for my laptop. Even if I were interested in gaming, I'd probably use a game console so I could play on my TV.
Additionally, most users don't ever want to upgrade their operating system - they'll wait until they buy a new computer since that's generally necessary to take full advantage of the new OS anyway.
As long as MS maintains its OEM channel, then Win8 will be a slow steady success. Though they really need Win8 RT to be successful since the PC buying trend seems to be shifting to tablets.
"I sat in the car, and had no idea where to put the keys," he said. "Then, I saw a big glowing button that said, 'Start.' That's all it took to figure it out. Let's call the old car, Car XP, and the new one Car 8," Sinofsky smirked. A few seconds later, Sinofsky's heart sank as he realized that in his very own car analogy, the newer, improved car had had a Start button added to it rather than the other way around.
Seriously: what new "gotta have" features justifies the hassle and cost of going from Win7 to Win8? Any "quantum leaps" in Win8, or just more minor tweaks?
To me it seems like Windows Media Center Edition which was just XP for people that had tv tuner card and cable near their computer. If you did have tuner card it is just XP. Windows 8 it's just Win7 for touchscreens. If you don't have a giant touchscreen what is the point really?
Maybe that hardware sales are down also? How many people actually 'upgrade' without buying a new computer?
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Since everybody predicted it was going to be a flop - clearly its worse than anyone could possibly have imagined!
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
Why ditch the best Windows version ever? Should have kept it alive with service packs. The UI thing, dialogs, cursors, menus, layouts, fonts... keep it intact.
Forcing fullscreen on what used to be control panel/admin tools interfaces is a real dealbreaker for my workflow.
Forced fullscreen seems more a 'accessibility options' tool for people who have to use touch interfaces, more than something that should be default for all users.
I have to say that i did buy Win8 Pro since it was so cheap and I didnt want to continue using a questionably legit copy of Win7. Do I love it? No. But, I dont hate it either.
Actually, for my windows is NOT the issue. I WANT to buy by wife a new ultrabook, but damned if I cant find one that is either A. has a ridiculously low resolution or B. has 4GB of RAM soldered to the Fing main board! Who that F wants that???
I was doing to buy the Yoga 13 with windows 8. Good resolution, removable RAM and SSD, BUT sold out of months ahead. The there is the Dell XPS 12, Nope, Cant add RAM, not SDcard slot either.
Basically, the laptops out there right now are complete crap. Yeah sure, I could buy a massive 17 incher and get a good screen, but my wife has zero interest in something big.
People more and more want something thin, fast and light.
Microsoft is correct. It IS the OEMs fault for producing complete and utter shit which people dont want to buy.
Face it, most folks care what it looks like, not which OS it has.
More commercials
"booting directly into the desktop"
That's the one. Anyone want to bet that will be a feature of service pack 1?
That said, I will be buying a Windows 8 Pro upgrade, but only to try to breathe life into a Windows 7 slate that is currently shelfware. Special case, not really indicative of the general public.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Whose projections are these? Actual industry ones, or Microsoft claiming they'd sell a billion units in the first week?
Many of us predicted Win 8 would be something most people skip as they've already gotten Win 7 and aren't interested in it.
From what I've seen of it, and the reviews I've read ... Win 8 sounds more like something many people will try to avoid. Some of the reviews I'm seeing basically make it sound like the new UI is bordering on useless, but I've not yet had a chance to play with a Win 8 machine myself.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
There is a major difference between upgrading from windows 7 to 8 ass there was from xp to vista or xp to windows 7. XP came about before things like wireless G was ubiquitous. It didn't handle a lot of web frameworks very well and it was frequently populated with applications that look far shinier than it did. Combine that with the large time gap between OSes, most people were running XP on laptops with external pci wireless cards or no wireless at all and they were seeing friends, family, and coworkers with sleeker, faster, easier to use laptops that just worked with any wireless network they were in range of and actually like similar in quality aesthetically with all of the applications people were running on it.
Nobody has a problem with their current version of windows 7 where they're thinking "If only I had a new windows 8 laptop this would be so much faster/easier/less frustrating etc". In fact, the processing power required to complete most tasks your average lay windows user does has pretty much stagnated over the past five years. Screen resolutions are virtually unchanged for most; Web browsing, email and productivity apps are pretty much at a stand still processing wise. The biggest changes in leaps and bounds have been internet bandwidth and the ability for network cards to process internet bandwidth has never been a bottleneck. This is why tablets are starting to takeover for lay computer users, because the stagnation in processor requirements have allowed smaller form factor hardware to catch up.
All in all, for most user upgrading doesn't mean a shiny new toy, it means work learning a new interface. Combine that with cost and the fact that it offers no solutions to problems or limitations they are currently having with windows 7 means nobody really wants it.
There is no memory shortage. yes I have heard of XFCE. Go away.
... when even Windows-fan-boi site Neowin.net, the anti slashdot talks about how WIndows 8 is failing and what went wrong afterwards.
Basically, Sinofsky made the decision to drop the start button in a meeting with Balmer saying it was a must if users were to get used to Metro. They must get immersed so Windows 8 phones can sell more etc.
Here is a little business 101 lesson. Your customers decide which UI you use and how you design your product. Not the other way around! Every company that told customers this is what you will do and how you will like it do poorly or go under. No one listens to them and MBAs feel it is their job to convert customers and tell them what to do.
They feel to acknowledge the customer can just walk out the door and take his or her business elsewhere.
So they fired Sinsosky and that is a good thing. Sad, as he did a great job for Windows 7 but they did not do any QA or UI usability testing with METRO. Just get it out FAST!! and it was was rushed. Customers hate change and Windows 7 works just fine thank you very much.
After numbers come it the problem will only get worse. Lets hope they do not something really stupid like get rid of the desktop entirely and just be a tablet company now. They lost focus on their core strengths which is another business 101 lesson you never do. They are not a consumer gadget entertainment company and they killed their number one product and money to get there. Wow! Balmer should be fired next too
http://saveie6.com/
They did not fire the woman mostly responsible for the Metro UI. Guess again.
Useability expert jacob Nielson trashed its useability. It sounde like MS doesn't do any testing at all. One thing in the linked article that made me sit up: W8 isn't Windows except in name, it's Window.
Only Microsoft calls removing features an upgrade... no, wait, Sony has done that, too.
Free Martian Whores!
Really, Win 8 should boot to Gangnam-sytle UI on a tablet and a Desktop when not a tablet. How hard could that be to implement? It should also retain affinity to one after booting. If you want to jump to Gangnam-sytle UI, it should be a right click option or task bar item to switch. If you're in the Gangnam-style UI, you should stay there until something doesn't work (IE 10 and plug-ins?) at which point, it should jump you to the desktop with whatever you were doing in the other interface still in session. Maybe MS will get this done in SP1?
Even Jakob Nielsen says that Windows 8 usability is "dissapointing". People should not be jumping to buy it, at least if they are rational. Maybe with new devices and computers if it comes forced in they will get it, but the upgrade, specially for traditional desktops, won't get them something easier to use (for the same tasks they were used to).
It could be a golden opportunity for both alternative Windows desktops environments/addons (i.e. Stardock) and Linux (both for traditional desktops and the new touch enabled ones if i.e. KDE plasma active delivers a good experience).
Apparently Jacob Nielson is an idiot. My windows8 has three windows open right now. I'm not a shill, but Windows 8 is just windows 7 with live tiles added.
21st Century Renaissance Man
Only Microsoft calls removing features an upgrade... no, wait, Sony has done that, too.
So did the Gnome 3 people.
It is no surprise that sales are in the gutter. I fully expect this to hurt PC sales in general.
The Windows 8 user interface is a horrid toy. And with the economy looking as if it will be even further down the toilet next year, who is going to waste money on a desktop touch screen monitor so they can have the privileged of holding out their aching arms for hours on end and covering it with fingerprints?
It seem like Microsoft is trying to kill of their own market. I'm fairly sure that Microsoft and pals were behind the media parroting "The PC is dead" in order to increase sales of their unwanted tablets. Well, with Windows 8 nobody wants their PCs either.
The first thing they could have done differently was not completely hijack your start menu!
Sure, you can still install applications on a system, but you will either have to embrace Metro or teach your users to navigate to the program using explorer and possibly pin it to their task bar. I personally hate the metro interface. There's no reason my start menu needs to consume the entirety of my monitor nor is there any reason I need to give every single application on my system it's own personal piece of real estate so that it may yell at me and (and this is the real reason folks) ADVERTISE TO ME. Seriously, the metro interface is Microsoft's solution to bait and switch people into using an OS that they have 100% control over application distribution plus it's a marketing platform in which applications can market to you even if you are not actively using it. How, or why, anyone finds this useful is beyond me.
This is precisely the reason why I started choosing my PS3 over the 360 in situations where either system could be used. The 360's dashboard is riddled with advertisements, even if you're a paying user.
No thank you. Windows 7 is a great OS and I've no problems with it.
What I find hilarious is that the Modern UI has no windows at all, it's all full screen apps that you cannot multitask with. The whole idea of the window is gone.
Um... it seems like Mr. Nielson didn't do any testing of Windows 8 either. Windows 8 is the only tablet OS that actually supports multiple windows open at a time, and on the desktop it's the same as it's always been.
I think they're referring to the UI formerly called Metro. You can put two apps side-by-side, but most apps don't work well like that and it's a huge pain in the ass to work with more than one app at a time. If you use a desktop, it's more of a traditional feel and I routinely use a dozen apps at a time like that... just no Metro apps.
If it's supposed to be intuitive and a guy other people consider a usability expert couldn't work it out, that's telling.
It's not just Win7 with live tiles added. There's a bunch of useful stuff removed.
If the most recent update is any indication, Microsoft's main trick to getting the gamer population to switch from 7 to 8 is by making newer versions of DirectX Windows 8 exclusive. Yeah yeah, 99.9% of games are console ports still running on DirectX 9, but those few juicy PC exclusive DirectX 11 games look beautiful, and are the whole reason I invested heavily in a gaming PC.
how about actually shoring up what you already have in play instead of creating new crapware! WinXP has been the most stable thus far and the biggest reason is due to the length of time it has been in use. We won't even discuss WinME/WinVista since those were complete junk straight out of the chute. Win7 has been doing alright mostly but hasn't been out very long and could use some more improvements. Now, MS is trying to push not only a new version of Windows but a completely revamped desktop version of Windows as well. It didn't get a very good response from people during beta and yet MS went through with releasing it. To not expect sales to be dismal is a bit silly to say the least. Should have kept working Win7 instead of running off to a new project.
It's the same dance they run into every other cycle. People were anxious to swap out Vista because it sucked. Windows 7 is fairly stable so why go through upgrade hell for a potentially less stable system that doesn't have anything new that you need? Microsoft has to face the fact that there may be a limited future in the OS market. Most of the new "features" to me feel like bloat and actually cause problems with what I need to do with a computer. Apple in a sense has a superior approach since the OS is created to support the hardware not the other way around. Apple potentially could stop upgrading their OS and switch to an update system without having a major affect on sales. Microsoft is invested in a 20 or 30 year old system that is no longer relevant.
You don't have to use metro, you know. Click the little desktop tile when you first login, or use one of the metro bypassers like start8 (even puts the start button back). Not sure why anyone would miss the start button though. Something like Launchy for pre windows 7, or just start typing after hitting a button for windows 7 and on. I suppose if you're a non-keyboard user user, it almost makes sense.
Here in Norway, the upgrade version of Windows 8 Pro comes to about 40% the price of a retail Windows Home Premium package. And for a fresh install you don't actually need a key code to upgrade from. Win 8 is a user-unfriendly mess compared to 7, but this can make it worth it for someone who pays for their home licenses.
That makes sense.
21st Century Renaissance Man
Minesweeper w/Adventure Mode:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/10/the-new-and-updated-games-of-windows-8/
Windows started as reaction to Mac OS. As such it was crap until Windows 3.11 workgroups in the early 90's. We dealt with Windows, but it was a kludge.
There was a lot of happiness with 3.11, and much happiness with WIndows 95. It was 32 bit and was really the first modern OS that MS had.
But then Windows 98 killed the streak MS was having, along with using IE to integrate the various products instead of creating a consistent undercarriage. NT was a mish mash at first, but by the time WIndows 98 came out it was a superior product, which meant MS was in the current situation of pushing inferior OS to users that perfectly happy with, for them, the superior NT. That was me.
Windows 2000 and XP, the sucessor of NT, finally made the Windows platform whole again, but then MS started getting into the infinite SKU look within a product, and really messed us up again. But really for a long time XP was it.
But Apple was getting aggressive again, and MS got jittery and made Vista, which no one would leave XP for. I finally upgraded from XP to Windows 7, which I must admit was a adult and rational product. It runs nice.
So here we are again, with Windows 8. Evidently a innovative product, but for me, someone who uses Windows only to do certain technical work, am I going to care enough to upgrade, especially since I have to pay full price since I run as virtual. Absolutely not. In fact, I recently bought some PCs for some other people and was consistently told that sales were up as people desperately wanted W7 machines.
It is the upgrade cycle. We get used to working in an OS, then MS every couple years expects us to change our habits to satisfy their needs for sales. It did not happen in the 90's and it s not going to happen now. When MS just develops good software, they are fantastic company. But when they are trying be overly creative or reacting to Apple, they produce crap.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Normally, when a business offers a 'new and improved' product as an 'upgrade,' the product has been improved sufficiently to make the consumer want to purchase it. However, in the case of Windows 8, the changes are all to help Microsoft supposedly improve its competitive position by moving a more powerful Windows to mobile devices. The main reason that Microsoft gives their customers to purchase "Windows 8" as an upgrade is: 'We will not support you if you don't buy it.' For people purchasing a new computer, there's no real choice as those computers will come with Windows 8 and so that's likely to be most of their sales to date. And then, of course, Microsoft also offers "Windows 8" for buyers of mobile devices...a completely different market segment. For those buyers, the main Microsoft sales pitch is 'buy a new device with Win 8 and it will run your old Windows apps such as Office' and give you a powerful Windows desktop on your mobile device.' In that situation, Microsoft is answering a question that no one is asking. All of Microsoft's problems come from one simple thing. Microsoft has not put themselves in their customer's shoes and asked 'what do our customer's want and how can we make our customer's lives better with our products?' Unfortunately for Microsoft, unless you have a monopoly or a state-owned economy, that is the driver for all business.
I don't own a touch screen, don't need one nor want to blow the money for one, so therefore I don't see the need to "upgrade". I leave that in quotes because I really wouldn't be upgrading if I couldn't use the interface as intended. Not only that, but there's too much "built in" stuff that tries to lead me toward using Microsoft, or rather closing the openness of the PC. I'm happy using Win7 and I hope it has a life cycle as long as XP so hopefully MS will develop something worth upgrading to before it Win7 reaches its end.
Chewbacon
The Bible is like Wikipedia: written by a bunch of people and verifiable by questionable sources.
So Nielsen's little study concludes the UI is garbage? Whatever. If you've had any involvement with MS, then you'll know they do tons of usability testing on every product. I love W8, and I applaud Microsoft for looking forward and not sticking to a 20 year old UI like Apple has.
Whose "projections" are we talking about exactly? Microsoft's marketing yes-men who tell Ballmer what he wants to hear? Or the rest of the tech world that has been looking at Windows 8 with a dubious and hesitant gaze for months?
It shouldn't take a market analyst to determine that the reception waiting for Windows 8 was going to be lukewarm at best. Anyone with their ear to the ground could hear the train of disappointment coming. The only people who are surprised by this are the marketing teams who believe their own hype.
With the proliferation of cloud technology the operating system of a computer has become increasingly irrelevant. As time goes on Microsoft will struggle more and more to sell "upgrades" to their OS. I used to be a 100% Win32 API programmer, now I rarely touch those tools. Browsers are the new operating systems of today and Win32 API is replaced by HTML5 and javascript. Most computer users never venture outside their browsers anyway.
Microsoft needs to understand that the business model has changed. They missed the Internet wave and now risk to miss the cloud wave as well. They need to start giving away their windows OS in order to remain relevant. It will keep the installed user base high and they should start charging subscription fees for feature upgrades.
For example, $20 a year to rent the operating system that will always remain up to date. That is going to bring in much more money then selling perpetual old style license while it also take the purchase barrier away.
Of course in the long term operating systems will become largely irrelevant anyway.
As a Linux user for more than a decade, I was forced to purchase a Windows machine for work. That being said, I sort of like the computer after making a few minor modifications:
#1 Adding a registry key so Windows would use the Blue-Ray that otherwise showed up perfectly in the Device Manager.
#2 Installation of Classic Shell to get a working menu. http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/
#3 Killing the touch screen menu that is unable to sort programs by name.
#4 Removal of all of the useless apps that are just links to Bing.
#5 Removal of about 1000 registry entries tied to Bing.
#6 Moving Windows Defender to CPU core 7 so my programs wouldn't intermittantly freeze.
#7 Disabling useless services like BITS, PnP, & DCOM and only re-enabling them for Windows Updates.
#8 Downloading every codec and plugin that I need.
#9 Installation of a second Linux HDD which can be used on the infrequent occasions that I disable UEFI in the BIOS.
Granted, my TV tuner does not work with Windows, nor does my HD Homerun (but I can hear the audio), nor WebEx recordings for work. But other than that, the clock constantly resetting, lack of Media Player, Flash crashing on restore to original size, and having to roll back to a restore point a few times (in the past month) everything has been smooth sailing. I just don't see why people hate on this OS.
Only Microsoft calls removing features an upgrade... no, wait, Sony has done that, too.
Yeah, right. Apple does that more often.
Going from Lion to Mountain Lion made my 3-monitor system almost unusable (due to the particular needs of my setup, which worked fine with Snow Leopard and Lion). I had to buy an app (TotalSpaces) that restores functionality removed by the Mountain Lion "update".
In fact, when I heard what MS was doing with Windows 8, my first response was "Those idiots think they are Apple?". Apple can pull crap like that off because people will just buy the "latest Apple". For Microsoft the best case is for people to buy something new if it can do more (otherwise they will sit with their trusted Win XP, Office 2k3 etc).
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
Nope! Windows 8 - no one needs it! XP still has 17 months left of support. Meanwhile, Windows 7 is super fast and works brilliantly.
Some new models fail in the marketplace. GM's Bob Lutz, in "Car Guys vs. Bean Counters", has a lot to say about how that happens in the auto industry. Sometimes a product bombs, and entire huge plants with hundreds of millions in tooling have to be scrapped.
Microsoft isn't used to having that happen. It's been so dominant that it could impose a new model on its user base. But with Microsoft's tiny market share in mobile, it can't do that there. Trying to push a failed model in mobile onto the desktop is backfiring.
Everything comes in twos over at Microsoft when it comes to OSes. Every other version of Windows is crap, so Windows 9 will be brilliant...
au contraire mon frere
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
Windows 8 is extremely aggravating for a desktop user. Of course sales are awful!
Compare it to Windows 7:
Pros:
-Faster bootup time
Cons:
-Slower shutdown time
-No DVD playback. Tons of features removed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_features_removed_in_Windows_8
-Start menu gone. You need to install Classic Shell to restore it.
-Ghastly trapezoid logo and garish tiles. Awkward, stuttering, and crashing Metro UI.
-It bothers you about making a Windows Live account and the Bing garbage is seemingly impossible to get rid of.
Is MS completely insane?
Seriously, which desktop users benefit from this OS? Touchscreen owners?
the basic issue is that a touch / phone UI does not work that well on a desktop screen or more then 1 screen desktop or even a mid size and up laptop screen.
Now in most pc / laptop work flows having more then 1 app open at the same time is needed and metro does that poorly.
Live tiles good on a phone but on a bigger screen a realizable side bar / task bar / top bar is a better idea.
Also metro apps should be able to run in a window on the desktop as well.
Start screen lacks the easy to setup and change folders that you can use on the start menu.
This is exactly the problem. Windows 7 is great as a stand alone experience. Metro is great as a stand alone touch experience. Microsoft is determined to force the convergence of them, despite no evidence that this particular venn diagram has any crossover: live tiles may be great for pure consumption (sometimes), it really kinda sucks for multi window productivity. Maybe 30 years from now we'll all work in such a radically different way that the live tiles will seem way ahead of their time, but right now, they're trying to ram a VW beetle sized peg into a square hole.
Good thing Cinnamon helps bypass their stupidity.
Seems to me this is a brilliant strategy just like New Coke. Not only can they see how far they can push customers, they will revert back to the old UI with a choice to use metro or not, and then be able to claim they listen to customers!
It didn't matter that in blind taste tests more people preferred New Coke, same here. (I am not claiming Windows 8 is better liked or the opposite just the strategy)
Free download from Sourceforge.
Boot to desktop, include a start button (3 menu styles to choose from), get rid of hot corners. Once I saw that someone fixed the mistakes for free, I upgraded two computers and bought one retail for a new box I'm building. Hyper-V makes the upgrade worth it to me.
Start8 might be better at $5, but by a very tiny margin.
As you said it's the Metro Apps. Just like a phone you can't run more than one, they go full screen including wiping out the task bar and there is no close button. The only way I've found to close one is to open task manager and kill them.
Boot into the desktop, normal start button, with the metro start menu but allow people to turn off the metro start menu and use Windows 7 Start Menu. Intergate the charms into the normal control panel. Apps can be loaded in a window, they could even keep the window the same size across all computers. Ability to dock the metro apps to the right and left of the screen like every other window. Not sure if you can turn off the lock screen, but if not that should be an option as well.
Win 7 is a resource-sucking pile of goat clusters.
Everytime I am forced back to a Win desktop - XP or 7 - I'm astounded people put up with it!
I have been on Linux of various flavors and OSX for so long, I forgot about the Stockholm syndrome of Microsoft's captive audience.
Oooh! Oohh! I want to play the platform flame war, too!
*straps on the asbestos underwear*
You know, some of us can afford a computer faster than a 486/66, so we don't have to use a crappy OS that supports 20 year old hardware. Now, shave off that neck beard and learn how to use a goddam mouse, you communist hippy!!!!!!!!
*Wheeeeee!*
Thanks for that trip back to 1994, I forgot how much fun usenet was!
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
I've been using ALT + F4 to close Metro Apps. Seems to be working well so far.
http://crummysocks.com
Apparently thomasw_lrd is an idiot.
"the main UI restricts users to a single window, so the product ought to be renamed "Microsoft Window."
When he refers to the main UI thomas, he's referring to the one that launches at startup, not that legacy application they call "Desktop."
put the what in the where?
I agree 100%. But I also find it bizarre that the exact opposite seems to be the pervasive mindset among Apple customers. For the life of me, I have no idea why it's worth bothering to upgrade my phone from iPhone 4G to (whatever the current one is, I don't keep track). Siri? Cloud-based storage? So what? How are these the monumental upgrades that people seem to think they are?
Yet Microsoft releases a major change to its OS, and those same people think there's no compelling reason to switch. Apple moves a pixel from the lower right portion of a screen to the center, and they're all "ooooh.... innovative!"
Human beings are crazy! (or maybe just idiots, but I'm going with crazy)
Why couldn't they have come up with a simplified hypervisor OS, that would launch individual virtual machines, all geared to run one OS per application. These wouldn't have to be the full blown Windows; just tailored mini-OS's geared towards each app's requirements?
I drank what? -- Socrates
Sorry Microsoft, but why should I upgrade to Window 7 or Window 8 ?
will all my application runs faster? better? bug free? More like I have to fork more money to buy the upgrade
for my current applications.
This OS doesn't solve any problems for me. Windows 3 was better than DOS, then I lept at 95 because it plugged so many holes in 3.1.1, the same with 98 and the 98's to follow. Then I went to 2000 because, as a developer, it was so much better and ME just sucked. 2000 was the first time I didn't have to reboot every 2 hours. But then I stuck with 2000 until just way too many applications wouldn't work. So begrudgingly I switched to XP. Then I switched to Mac. Yet if XP had been tweaked a bit to be properly 64bit I couldn't really see any reason to upgrade beyond that; vista and Windows 7 just didn't call out to me. I am not saying that windows 7 sucked but I wonder if the effort that went into Vista and Windows 7 had gone into making XP better if that would not have been just as good. So I look at my VM of Windows XP and then I read about windows 8 and wonder what killer feature 8 will have that hasn't just be arbitrarily denied to XP. My plan is to keep XP in a VM for web page testing and to soon get 8 into a VM so that I can use whatever useless version of IE it has for more testing.
.net. Again it was the answer to Java and solve many problems. But then by .net 2.5 it was all about integrating various MS products into my projects.
The only thing that Windows does to me is cause me to write: if($browser.msie){do stupid code;}
If Microsoft wants me back then they have to solve some problem that I have. But as a developer they only want me to solve their problems. They want me to use coding tools that will require my customers to buy Office and various server products. In the early days Microsoft put out tools that were directly aimed at me and my problems. Visual Basic allowed me to code stuff for Windows in a flash. Coding for windows was hard using crap products like Borland C++. Then they came out with Visual Studio and poof I could code windows using MFC which simplified the whole process. But then MFC started getting more and more supportive of MS products. Then came
If MS wants to win me back they need to buy something like Trolltech's QT and make it so that I can program for Windows/Android/iPhone with equal ease. MS would then get splashed by all the applications that could be ported in a snap.
MS has completely turned me off when I reinstalled Windows on a laptop using the legitimate Dell supplied DVD and serial. I use the code and bloop "This product is not Genuine." Nice.
Not only this but you can't half-screen maximize metro apps 50/50 like you can do in windows 7 / Unity by dragging an application to the right or left sides of the screen. Using Metro apps, you can only do it ~80/20, which makes the feature useless unless your app is really useful being displayed as a vertical column on the side of the screen. It's funny they never implemented this feature in Metro considering I thought it was one of the best things they added to Win 7. I very commonly have two browser windows open side by side. You can't do that in Metro.
If you have a Metro (Full Screen app) open just take your mouse cursor and put it in the top center of the metro app. It should turn into a hand. Click and hold and drag the screen down the bottom of the screen. This will close the app.
Some predictions:
1. I give Microsoft 6 months, maybe less, before they give the desktop PC users what they want... The ability to ditch the Modern UI in favour of the desktop.
2. To make Windows 8 RT relevant, at the same time they'll remove the restriction on creating desktop apps (Although they'll still have to go through the store)
3. ARM will be welcomed into the corporate workplace by sorting out RT's failure with joining corporate domains (Although, ironically, it doesn't have a problem authenticating with servers directly)
4. They'll fix the discrepancies between the desktop and the Modern UI (Yes, I'm looking at you "Mr split-personality control panel", amongst everything else)
5. Release a user manual, or at least a training video on YouTube on how to use the darn thing.
It sold any copies at all? To people who don't work at Microsoft, get kickbacks for reviewing Windows positively, or work at companies testing software that has to prove that their software runs on Windows 8? (Or who had it installed on their new computers and didn't have a choice about it?) Apparently, but I'm kind of surprised.
Windows 8 really doesn't have anything, not a single feature, that I would want. And a lot of things I'd like to stay away from. So why would I buy it? Why would anyone? (Unless they had no choice, or as mentioned, were testing software that had to be tested in Win8, though even then, I'd install it inside a VM running on a computer with 7.)
Why couldn't they have come up with a simplified hypervisor OS, that would launch individual virtual machines, all geared to run one OS per application. These wouldn't have to be the full blown Windows; just tailored mini-OS's geared towards each app's requirements?
Sometimes there are posts, such as this one, of which it is completely unclear if it was intended seriously or as a joke.
If it's a joke: well done, sir!
Apparently Jacob Nielson is an idiot. My windows8 has three windows open right now.
Yes, the desktop works the same way it did before, except that they killed the Start button and force users to go through Metro instead. But users are no longer brought to the desktop upon logging in. Instead they are dumped directly into Metro, which does indeed have the limitations outlined by Jakob Nielsen. And it's not made obvious to new users how to get back to the desktop from there.
The bottom line is that with Windows 8, Microsoft deliberately sacrificed usability on the desktop for marketing reasons (pushing Metro into people's faces to bring more visibility to their tablet/phone products).
But only if you switch to the desktop. If you ignore Metro and just look at Windows 7 versus Windows 8 in desktop mode, Windows 7 still has more features.
bitter ass
Great! This'll mean a greater push towards PC freedom!
Debian anyone?
Ive been using the power switch to close Metro apps. Seems to be working awesome! Works best if you just leave it that way.
And the start menu replaced with a full screen version, and buttons replaced with gestures that are meant for touch devices, but which are pretty annoying with a mouse, and a mix of "widget/app" applications with real applications, some of which have both versions, and a very non-intuitive way of closing the non-full-applications apps, where you have to first exit the app, then mouse to the top left corner, drag down, find the app you want to close, then right click on it to close it... but don't mouse too far over or the list disappears and you start over. Lots of cool stuff like that which are being touted as added benefits.
I agree 100%. But I also find it bizarre that the exact opposite seems to be the pervasive mindset among Apple customers. For the life of me, I have no idea why it's worth bothering to upgrade my phone from iPhone 4G to (whatever the current one is, I don't keep track). Siri? Cloud-based storage? So what? How are these the monumental upgrades that people seem to think they are?
When you buy a new smartphone or tablet from Apple, you're buying a package consisting of both hardware and software. While iOS is fairly mature on the software side (with the exception of the new, inadequately tested Maps), smartphone and tablet hardware is still in its rapid development phase. In contrast, PC hardware mostly reached maturity in the 2006-2008 period (with the exception of displays, which still suck). If you upgrade from the iPad 2 to the iPad 4, you're not primarily paying for a new OS; you're paying for 4x the pixels and a much faster GPU.
Totally intuitive... unfortunately, ALT + F4 is one of those "look in order to find it" sequences, that are much harder to find than other shortcuts in the dark.
So just like always... Same pig, different lipstick.
You're being modded as off-topic, but you're right, and relevant. All the 'designers' are pushing for dumbing down the desktop with no thought to those that actually need to use the more advanced features to actually do more than browse FaceBook. The Unity/Gnome-Shell changes are a perfect example (and I even find Gnome-Shell mostly usable). I wish they'd picked a better time to screw around with an exception Gnome 2 interface ... they could likely have grabbed more marketshare from Microsoft. As it is, it makes it hard to recommend Ubuntu to a new user for the same reasons that it's hard to recommend Windows 8.
and Adobe
rewriting history since 2109
FYI, Jacob Nielsen is the #1 name in usability, and has been that for decades now. Most of the improvements that you see in apple products for example are based on implementing his teachings.
Nielsen is also author of most of the reading that any decent university course on usability will give you.
The issue comes IMO not from metro being there but because it's frustratingly limited on the desktop. There's no way to zoom out the tiles to make better use of the screen. Some actions which should work on multi selection don't (e.g. pin apps to start), there is zero integration between metro and the desktop, the search charm makes an extremely poor substitute for the start menu, all the things that the start menu used to do are scattered to the four winds or not implemented at all, there is no way to group tiles in folders, desktop apps don't appear in the left hand edge app list, the amount of mouse travel is unreal, wheeling to scroll sideways is counter intuitive and often defeated by focus issues. There is also advertising, some of it very intrusive coming into the periphery of the OS - games like Mahong, some other apps.
I think it is abundantly clear that some time in the development process Microsoft said screw desktop users in this release. They paid lip service, to get something which sort of works but they didn't go to town on the desktop functionality aside from some relatively minor things (e.g. new task manager, file copy etc.). It's a shame because Windows 8 does generally feel a lot slicker and responsive and the idea of a hybrid tablet / desktop in a single device is extremely attractive. It's just that half baked front end which is the problem.
What I would like to see for Windows 8.5 / 9. Is a proper focus on the desktop. I don't care if Start doesn't come back but whatever replaces it has to work sensibly on the desktop.
it took me all of two seconds to figure out how to close an app. I haven't noticed any gestures that are needed. Everything just works for me. But of course I consider myself smarter than the average user.
21st Century Renaissance Man
That's cool I've never heard of him.
21st Century Renaissance Man
copying a good deal of the design concepts from gnome-shell was probably the biggest thing they've done to shoot themselves in the foot.
at least on linux we have apt-get remove gnome;apt-get install xfce4
Features that I'm not missing because olive never used them.
21st Century Renaissance Man
It seems pretty easy to find the big window on my metro start page that says desktop. he'll its easier than trying to use the fucking ribbon. I know I'm not the great Mr. Nelson who made apple products what they are today. Which isnpof course what he's really saying here. I don't want MS copying what I helped apple do, so I'm going to say its crap and hope people listen to me and do all their work on an IPad so my stock will go higher.
21st Century Renaissance Man
Microsoft says that the new design will increase usability. Many people who used the software, however, have criticized it for a steep learning curve that impacts both novices and experienced PC users.
Took me a whole couple of hours to get comfortable with the new UI and google "Windows 8 shortcut keys". Yeah, really steep learning curve.
"Windows" no longer supports multiple windows on the screen. Win8 does have an option to temporarily show a second area in a small part of the screen, but none of our test users were able to make this work. Also, the main UI restricts users to a single window, so the product ought to be renamed "Microsoft Window."
That's only Metro, there's still the desktop that looks and acts almost exactly like the Win 7 desktop, except there's no start button. I know I know, it's really challenging to press the windows key on the keyboard to get to the Metro screen.
Win7 Ultimate does not go to Win8 Pro.. No thanks :)
I've been screaming at it. Doesn't work at all, but I feel better. Though it does make me think that if they were gonna add a human sense to Windows they should've added hearing, not touch.
That's pretty good. I've worked with a team of people who couldn't figure it out immediately... I guess your brain works in a Windows 8 way... don't expect many people to buy it ;o)
From my understanding, Win8 is just removing the Start button and task bar. Forcing all applications to run maximized and then plaster your desktop full of icons. I can do that with my current Win7.
In the end, Win8 just isn't for the power user. I often have several Putty windows running and need to move then around in various places on my desktop. This is how windows work. If I can't get the same look and feel out of Win8 that I do with any previous versions of windows then I won't ever be using it. This includes a Start Button. And no I don't want to buy a 3rd party start button software replacement.
I was looking at one of the Win8 tablets at best Buy over the weekend. When I saw a "Tile" for the Disk Defragment app I laughed and walked away. Can't believe the filesystem still requires that.
they self close / pause in background, you're thinking too much.
Soon this key feature, which has been around for all of windows history, will be removed just like the Start menu.
might fit, if the hole is crater sized.
Yup. It appears that we are at this step:
3. ???
to release windows rt with metro separate for the handheld market; and then extend the lifespan for win7 (to at least 2025). that would have been the push businesses needed to finally get off xp before april 2014.
windows 8 is NOT a desktop OS. it's a touch interface with a desktop hidden much like when windows 95 came out and "hid" the previous interface (dos).
Which part of "Microsoft Product" did you not understand?
Just because microsoft says win8 is better and that customers should blindly buy it doesnt mean they will.
Windows 8 is a terrible operating system and its one and only sole purpose is to sell more tablets because microsoft like always, is trying to cash in on a popular trend started and solified by others. Microsoft desperately wants in on the tablet market that android and apple created, microsoft waited till someone else created a solid market and now they are trying to shove their way into it by forcing windows 8 on their customers. Microsoft made win8 for tablets, thats evident in the interface and its drastic change, there is no need for it on laptops or desktops.
I love windows 7 and it is the best operating system for computers both desktop and laptops so its what Im sticking with.
Except no-one pays for Gnome 3...
As someone who bought into the entire .NET thing, I will NEVER use ANY Windows 8 machine/product/code/etc.
Microsoft "screwed the pooch" with this one. The ENTIRE point of .NET was so that applications could run on multiple architectures without recompiling. That was the promise of .NET.
In fact Microsoft had to go out of it's way (creating an entirely new tool chain to Visual Studio) to avoid this, just so that they could implement their "me too" walled garden and block out pre-RT .NET applications. I am done with .NET, going back to native C++/Win32 on Win 7, at least I won't have to sacrifice performance anymore
From those *thousands* of people on the forums were screaming "Don't take away the start button" and "make the metro interface optional," and hundred of other sensible rational suggestions, we told you so.
Someone, or some group, deep in the heart of Microsoft chose to ignore them all.
If they haven't been fired yet, they *should* be fired. Immediately. For incompetence AND being arrogant asses. This crap impacts the lives, businesses and productivity of millions of people. This is not a "House" episode. You get no points for being clever and obnoxious. Hopefully, all you get is shitcanned while some poor set of humbler, and more experienced SOBs go in and try and figure out a way to clean up your blundering mess.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
Marketing could call it the Cloud on A Chip and make everyone feel all cool and big peener, having a whole network of systems in their box.
I drank what? -- Socrates
Gimme 8? No PC should be without it!
Visual Studio - is lightyears (but at least 5 years) ahead of everything else.
Exchange, SQL Server, etc.. - good luck trying to find alternatives for their enterprise solutions.
Games - they run and run fast.
Device drivers - are available for all hardware. My hybrid gfx on a 2 year old laptop still has no linux support, so I have to use some hack to turn one of them off.
Xbox, Kinect - enough said.
MS is not going anywhere anytime soon. If Steve Jobs would've come up with the active tile home screen, or the unified interface across devices, everyone would've been drooling over it.
On any keyboard I have owned:
-There is a space between the F1-F4 and F5-F8 blocks, F4 is the right one of the leftmost block.
-Alt is next to the spacebar (on either side).
Moral: make sure you have a decent keyboard to type blind or in the dark (backlit keys might also help).
As it is, [the alleged dumbing down of Unity and GNOME Shell] makes it hard to recommend Ubuntu to a new user for the same reasons that it's hard to recommend Windows 8.
And make it that much easier to recommend Xubuntu.
In comparison with Windows 8 and Gnome 3, Ubuntu's interface is actually pretty conservative, and let's face it, it's pretty similar to OS X, especially if you like to keep your dock in OS X on the left-hand side of the monitor. Keyboard shortcuts work well, obviating the need to use the mouse for pretty much all tasks. Lots of folk on Slashdot hate Unity, and that's fine. But Canonical seems to me to be occupying the middle ground in interface design right now. I would say that it is more than "mostly usable" in 12.04 or 12.10.
It's just a new version of windows ME.
Actually WIndows 8, like it's predecessor, includes speech recognition - and it's a perfect example of how half arsed the update is.
The first thing you'll notice when setting it up is the tutorial. It's entirely unchanged from the Windows 7 version, and includes diagrams showing the Windows 7 Start Orb and Start Menu that no longer exist. You're told how to turn off the PC by issuing the commands:
"Start"
"Shut Down"
"Turn Off"
If you try this however you'll find that Metro has completely buggered this up. The actual sequence as near as I can tell is now this:
"Start" (Return to metro start screen)
"Press T" (To start a search)
"Settings" (To search settings)
"Delete All, Turn Off Your Device" (To search settings for the correct item - it's easier to just delete the original T)
"Show Numbers, Two, OK" (You can't select the search result any other way. Saying "Turn Off" etc just adds the text to the search again)
At this point you now finally have the settings side bar up with the "Power" button available. You might think saying "Power" will get you there. It won't - apparently the side bar doesn't have whatever accessibility hooks are needed by speech recognition, so it's back to:
"Show Numbers, Five, OK"
"Turn Off"
All they would have had to do is ask us grunts on the front lines, we could have told you it was gonna bomb. I had a Win 8 system set up in my shop from Feb to Sept to let folks try it out and NOBODY liked it, they found it confusing and a PITA. I heard comments like "This is a joke, right? You're pulling my leg" and "How do i get it to just act like Windows?" and "But YOU can get the REAL Windows...right?"
Personally I'm all for trying new things and staying ahead of the curve, when all the home users were on WinME I was running Win2K, when everyone else was running XP I was on XP X64 from the day of its release, i even fought the bugs with Vista for 6 months as a beta tester before giving up but Win 8...its the first MSFT OS I'm gonna have absolutely nothing to do with, because its like tying a boat anchor to my productivity. I multitask, this is sucktastic on win 8, and trying to fight the Metro screen with a touchpad is the height of frustration.
So i'll say the same thing I did when i saw how my customers viewed Win 8, its a lemon, its gonna bomb. Kinda telling that in the 7 months I had Win 8 running on that nice AMD multicore not a single person, not one mind you, wanted to buy that system or even offered me anything for it, I put win 7 on it? I sold it 5 days later. That tells me as a retailer all I really need to know.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
http://www.zdnet.com/usability-expert-slams-windows-8-disappointing-for-both-novice-and-power-users-7000007599/
Well obviously...why anyone wouldn't think of doing that is beyond me.
A desktop is where you work and produce stuff. A tablet or phone is a dumb down computer intended for consumption of data only.
Here's the problem I see with a duality between devices that can be used to view existing works from established publishers ("consume") and devices that can be used to create. A lot of people will buy only a device for viewing existing works from established publishers, thinking that viewing existing works from established publishers is all they ever plan to do, only to be faced with sticker shock once they decide to try creating.
What I think needs to happen again is to split up windows.
Windows RT is for viewing existing works from established publishers, and Windows 8 is for creating. Windows 8 just happens to contain a compatibility layer for applications written to the API of Windows RT. (Ignore for a moment that Windows 8 boots to the user interface of said compatibility layer.)
Create a simplified featureless metro-fied OS that's really cheap for the home user, and a full featured OS for workers that includes a desktop.
So once a home user decides to create something as a student or as a hobbyist, how much should it cost to get started?
Bimbo Newton Crosby, the whole point of Win 8 is Metro, if you are just sticking with the classic desktop you are better off having the REAL desktop of Win 7 that the gimped half baked one in Win 8. and its obvious to any of use it more than a few minutes that Win metro is a touch screen tablet UI...problem is less than 2% of ALL computers sold now or in the past is touch, so its a UI for a system that is almost never seen in the wild. hell my local Wally World has over 27 laptops and desktops and only ONE is a touch, an iMac ripoff by HP.
But what is really gonna doom Win 8 is the reality of the situation when it comes to X86, which is thus: When Intel and AMD went from MHz wars to core wars they quickly built systems so fucking powerful that Joe average just can't stress even a 5 year old system, so why do they need to buy a new one? The LOW END systems i was selling 5 years ago was AMD Phenom I triples and quads (remember the TLB bug? I got a pile of those chips dirt cheap and I found you had better odds of winning the Powerball than hitting the TLB bug) with 3Gb-4Gb of RAM and 400Gb-500Gb HDDs...now what average user is gonna actually slam that system? They aren't. The same thing has been the case in laptops for about 4 years now, with even the low end mainstream systems sporting dual cores with a couple of Gb of RAM, and what do people do with them? Surf, listen to music, watch videos...none of which is gonna slam even a low end Pentium or Turion dual.
so you have one of the worst economic downturns in decades, you have customers with fire breathing funny cars that could just as easily be running compacts...and you're surprised nobody is buying, when you add a fucked up touchscreen UI to the mix? In a dead economy you do NOT raise the prices, just ask Intel how many Ultrabooks are sitting in warehouses or on shelves gathering dust, so adding a fucked up beta quality PITA UI on top of a bad situation was just begging for fail. Well congrats MSFT, you finally made vista look good.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
And it's not made obvious to new users how to get back to the desktop from there.
You mean the double width tile with the word "Desktop" printed on it doesn't give them some sort of idea?
When I saw a "Tile" for the Disk Defragment app I laughed and walked away. Can't believe the filesystem still requires that.
Seriously? I've been using Windows 8 for a while and I haven't seen this tile. Also, the tablets almost certainly have SSDs where disk defragmentation is disabled (it just runs TRIM instead).
While Metro is certainly the biggest change between Win7 and Win8, anyone who says it's the whole point either does little more than play Freecell all day or hasn't spent a whole lot of time with Windows 8. I was going to pass it by because many people spouted off about Metro, but I found a few articles talking about the other features of Win 8 and that's what got me to try it. Client Hyper-V is my favorite new thing (at the expense of XP Mode), but the additional multi-monitor support is also very nice for anyone who routinely uses more than two monitors. While both of those have relatively limited target audiences, they're still proof that Metro is not "the whole point" of Win 8.
I know I know, it's really challenging to press the windows key on the keyboard to get to the Metro screen.
Is there any particular reason why no user of stock Windows 8 is allowed to click on the first icon from the left (a.k.a. the Start button) and bring up a little panel with a customized launcher (a.k.a. the Start menu?) Why instead of doing two mouse clicks I must release the mouse, move my hands to the keyboard and type something?
I'm only asking WHY they did that. Specifically, what exact demon from Hell posessed them when they decided to remove a feature that was there since 1995 and hurt no one, as far as I can tell.
Also MS is wants users to purchase metro apps and not standard apps. It is all cloudy, it is cool, it is hip, get your data and apps at any computer you sit at. As long as they are metro apps, purchased at the windows store where they get a slice of every sale. MS does not want to encourge the usage of traditonal apps that can be purchased and installed without giving MS a cut.
So the interface that MS wants you to use, prefers you to use and if they can have their way the only interface that will eventually be available and by the way, IS the only interface available on WinRT. That is the interface that Jacob Nielson is reviewing. And he is right. it is shockingly bad.
vi +
Microsoft want developers to code apps for Metro
And the console makers want developers to code games for their consoles, but they don't make it easy for startups to get licensed. Bob's Game anyone?
so how would they test them if Metro wasn't included?
They'd test them by buying a Surface, just as Apple expects developers to test iOS applications by buying an iPad.
This is something else Microsoft has screwed with over the years.
I had an MS keyboard with a [F1-F3] [F4-F6] [F7-F9] [F10-F12] layout. And they were all mapped to something completely different by default, and you had to push a button on the keyboard to restore them to the F* keys. EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME YOU TURNED OFF THE COMPUTER.
Idiots.
i remembered the app store wasn't around till 2008, after lots of people already had iphones.
The only iPhone that didn't have the App Store was the first generation iPhone, the version that just had EDGE. All devices running iOS 2 had the App Store. The iPod touch 2 and iPhone 3G shipped with iOS 2, and it was a free upgrade for iPhone 1 owners or a $9.95 upgrade for iPod touch 1 owners because of Sarbanes-Oxley.
plus, no one actually wrote any web apps before that.
I'd bet that was because Safari had no way to access input devices such as the camera, microphone, accelerometer, 3D accelerator, etc. Does it now?
Expect to see Laptops with multi-touch screens to be common, then windows 8 will be more liked.
Good luck holding your hand up to keep touching a screen at the typical height of a laptop or desktop monitor for eight hours.
Totally intuitive... unfortunately, ALT + F4 is one of those "look in order to find it" sequences, that are much harder to find than other shortcuts in the dark.
I disagree, Alt is right next to the spacebar and F4 has a physical break between it and F5 on most desktop keyboards.
Both keys are pretty easy to find by touch in the dark, although it does require you to know the basic layout.
windows phone 8 phones are selling like hot cakes. raked best seller on amazon and sold out at most retailers and phone networks (and not because they only made 5 like the nexus 4).
That'll work. Unless you configured the power switch to hibernate the system, in which case the apps might as well say "Hi. We're back. Log in now to spew your personal information everywhere. LOLZ"
Walk into the store, tell the sales person what you want. If they can't deliver walk out and tell them why you are walking out.
One time I did that, I walked out of every store in walking distance. It was two and a half years ago, and neither Best Buy nor RadioShack nor T-Mobile could show me an N900 phone. So if you plan to walk out, be prepared to end the day walking out with nothing.
have you tried pissing off the interface you don't like (it's pretty easy).
I think GNOME took the lead on removing things :)
If you have a Metro (Full Screen app) open just take your mouse cursor and put it in the top center of the metro app. It should turn into a hand. Click and hold and drag the screen down the bottom of the screen. This will close the app.
I tried the beta, and the lack of any sort of training mode did me in. I had to guess and google, a lot. In the end, it was easier just not to use it. I figure we just have to wait them out. Windows 9 Desktop Edition (Win 9 DE) will bring back the start button. Windows 9 Mobile Editition (Win 9 ME) will keep the silly tiles. Microsoft seems to have learned the wrong lession with their phone interfaces, you don't need to have the same interface on everything, you need to customize and tweak it for each style of interface, hopefully keeping some elements the same to keep it intuitive allowing your users to feel comfortable in each.
I'm happy to have an Android phone, but I don't want to run that interace on my home desktop computer. My desktop does have a start button, (Mint OS). Like it or not, Microsoft has reinforced the basic design of a modern useful desktop. For some reason now, they want to change it. Personally, I do not care if it is technically inefficient, I still get my work done. I would lay bets that most win8 development is being done on more traditional desktops, perhaps initially because the tools are not there yet for a win8 platform, but I would be interested to see if this continues, or if developers adopt the new desktop.
That's ok, I'm sure he has never heard of you either.
But those Windows 8 commercials were so cute... everybody *slapping close* their tab/note/lets as if to say, what... enough already?
Well, KDE isn't dumbing down. There are several other simpler DEs that aren't either. You can't recommend Ubuntu, but you can recomment Mint.
Isn't diversity great?
Rethinking email
Yes because the majority are gonna use hyper-V and have multiple monitors...facepalm. Even you admit that is a niche, and as a retailer who deals primarily with SMBs and home users I can't think of a single one that uses or even asked about hyper-V and I have exactly ONE customer with two monitors...and he's quite happy with his Phenom I X3 and Win 7.
The simple fact is when you add in all the factors, people having more power than they know what to do with, a dead economy that makes many leery of buying a new system they frankly don't need, and adding a touch centric UI that requires a more expensive system ON TOP of all those other factors? It would be like naming your new luxury liner "Titanic II" and saying the first run is gonna be in jan in the Atlantic...its just doomed to fail.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
the UI formerly called Metro.
They should rename it to YHWH to discourage people from talking shit about it. Or MuhammadWasAPaedo.
Bet Jacob Nielson wouldn't write negative articles about it then, the pussy.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
This should have been expected. If they offered an upgrade price that was reasonable it might have sold more. Also marketing was done badly, everyone I know has a bad taste thinking this is only an OS for tablets.
Tomi Ahonen makes a very persuasive case that the title for worst CEO of all time should probably go to one of Ballmer's protoges, Stephen Elop.
Windows 8 will win the desktop the same way it always has - by default. As manufacurers release new models, the stock of Windows 8 machines will rise. Few consumers care about the OS. They do care about the price and this is why Apple continues to be a marginal desktop and laptop vendor. Look at Apple's sales. Most of their revenue comes from the iPhone and the iPad with all other devices trailing by a wide margin. Vista was the only varriable that bucked the trend, being a colossal screw up both in the home and the corporate desktop.
Game, set, and match. Microsoft wins. Ballmer keeps his job.
Only the dead have seen the end of War. - Plato
that's been the paradigm from day 1. They haven't "moved" from anything.
Apple's current tablets run iOS. Apple's previous tablet, the Newton MessagePad, ran Newton OS, which allowed loading software from unknown sources.
[Not letting end users load homemade stuff without paying a substantial chunk of change to Apple every year] was the paradigm invented with iTunes + iPod that makes sense for iOS.
How so? iTunes lets the user load mp3 and m4a files from unknown sources, not so for apps.
Oh that's nothing, you want telling watch this video of a bog standard average user plopped down in front of a new Win 8 system, just like what would happen if they bought one and brought it home without taking classes for the damned thing first. This is EXACTLY what I saw from the 7 months I had a unit running in my shop for folks to play with, only with more frustration and anger that they were having trouble with even basic tasks. Nothing pisses someone off more than to feel helpless, and if you don't have all the keyboard shortcuts memorized (Protip: The vast majority of Windows users are "clicky clicky" mouse users and don't know the shortcuts) you will quickly feel overwhelmed and helpless.
That is why for months guys like me that work with average users have been saying things the reviews now confirm which is Win 8 is THAT bad from a user perspective. Now if it works for you? I'm happy for you, but I bet you are nothing like the average user, instead being more of a keyboard heavy power user. But the only features I've seen that make Win 8 has some advantage over Win 7, hybrid boot, hyper-V, on demand services..these frankly are vastly outweighed by the boat anchor that is the metro UI.
Why they simply couldn't have let the USER choose when UI they wanted is beyond me, you know it would have been trivial to simply leave the Win 7 desktop UI in the system and let the user switch at any time. probably afraid nobody would take the WinPhone which the metro UI seems to be designed to force us to "learn to love" but if the combo of user backlash and low sales has proven anything, its that most agree with me that Win 8 is a pass.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Just goes to show you, MS does NO testing, and has completely jumped the shark....
THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
Yeah and you get what you pay for. I swear it seems like MSFT gives Linux a perfect opportunity to grab some share instead of jogging their way to the finish line while MSFT limps along they promptly shoot themselves in the foot and then plop down in the middle of the track to write some shell scripts while MSFT wins by default. During Vista it was the mess than is Pulse being dropped not even alpha quality into most distros, and with Win 8 its like all the UI teams went "ZOMFG have you seen my new iPad? its so awesome!" and promptly tried to out Apple in the bling dept and made a giant fricking mess of everything.
In the end its the very nature of free as in beer that I think ultimately dooms Linux on the desktop, as since they aren't getting paid for their products (and thus don't have to worry about being fired when they bomb) the devs just ignore what their users tell them and instead just scratch their own itches, public and share be damned. And at the end of the day nobody cares about free as in freedom/beer if the actual product sucks, Win 7 is $100 and good until 2020, that is $14 a year so really not worth saving that $14 if you have to deal with a PITA OS. This is of course the opposite of server where the OS can cost thousands which is why Linux does well there, free as in beer matters when you are shelling out thousands, for a hundred bucks? meh, who cares.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
That is the best misuse of an apostrophe I have ever seen. You, sir, win an Internet.
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
Hulu Plus is another one. When you pay them, they basically take part of their service away from you.
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
I upgraded my HP Slate from Windows 7 to Windows 8, and I honestly regret the decision.
The start page doesn't work, as it requires 1024x700 resolution... The HP slate resolution is 1024x600.
It's difficult to get to my apps without the start menu there. There is no quick fix to bring back the start menu.
In addition, the tablet locks up when Windows 8 goes to sleep, making the sleep function not work at all. It works fine if you restart every time.
It's not like the computer is old... I bought it about 2 years ago.
As a result of these issues, I don't plan on upgrading my other machines.
Might get a Surface tablet.
windows phone 8 phones are selling like hot cakes. raked best seller on amazon and sold out at most retailers and phone networks (and not because they only made 5 like the nexus 4).
No, the only losers buying them are the lame boisterous Windows hooligans who are content to put up with shitty phones and shitty UI's because their income is tied to this pathetic POS company. This is why Symbian phones still have a greater market share than WP and why WP will never amount to anything - just like the kin.
So Nielsen's little study concludes the UI is garbage? Whatever. If you've had any involvement with MS, then you'll know they do tons of usability testing on every product. I love W8, and I applaud Microsoft for looking forward and not sticking to a 20 year old UI like Apple has.
Why are we not surprised that MS shills love sucking Microsoft cock.
Mountain Lion no longer has Spaces. The replacement for Expose/Spaces is supposed to be Mission Control, but in reality it lacks Spaces functionality.
For example, say your Mac is feeding your monitor and also your projector. If your projector is in another room or turned off (and e.g. connected through KVM) you essentially can't see part of your desktop. That is no problem for Mac OS X 10.5-10.7. Say Firefox launches on the projector-part of your desktop and you want to move it where you can see it, hit F9 and drag it. On Mountain Lion you are SOL. And missing functionality is just the tip of the iceberg for Mountain Lion's broken multi-monitor support. Try having one monitor in portrait and start moving windows around or do whatever else you normally do. No, I dare you, try it. Since the first release portrait-mode users have been complaining on severe stuttering and many have reverted to Lion. Still not fixed. example posts.
1. Take an awful UI created for their failing phones.
2. Place it on the desktop.
3. Get your desktop users familiar with the UI so that they can buy your shitty phones and tablets
4. No one buys your desktop OS just like they don't buy your Phone or Tablet OS.
Maybe Microsloth should have LISTENED to the feedback DURING THE BETA!
He's more of a self proclaimed expert than an actual expert. His experience actually owning design for anything was largely with the world's leading software experience brand....Sun? Yeah, when I think of Sun enterprise software the word "usability" is the first word that comes to mind (sarcasm). There are many jokes about analysts like Mr. Nielsen but I'll let you Google chose yourself.
FOSS to the rescue, you know it had to happen http://www.brianmadden.com/blogs/gabeknuth/archive/2012/09/21/relief-classicshell-gives-windows-8-a-start-menu-and-boots-directly-to-desktop.aspx. I couldn't use Windows 7 without Classic Shell http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/. M$ has always produced buggy crap that has to be fixed with other software more often than not FOSS.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
Dude, whatever they're paying you, it's not worth your dignity. Knock off the astroturfing.
Likewise, Dell is still selling Windows 7 on everything, and only some portables even seem to offer Windows 8.
Hello, MSFT board? Why is Steve Ballmer still employed by the company?
It's there, under Settings. Win + W + defr brings up "Defragment and optimize your drives".
If you can't convince them, convict them.
Yah, they could have just called it Windows 286. From what I can tell its pretty much the same single window, flat low color depth crap. Heck they probably could have re-released 286 and struck out the 2 and the 6, and saved themselves a bunch of effort. It would totally haul butt on a 16Mhz machine.
There is nothing wrong with Kubuntu, Lubuntu or Xubuntu. Luddites...
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Wow, so Win8 is really so much better at speech recognition that you can now have a five minute conversation with your PC while turning it off...
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Metro would have been better if it behaved like AquaSnap (AeroSnap improvement) that lets you put windows side by side, top and bottom or in each corner. I don't really care about Metro though, underneath, Windows 8 is genuinely a better OS than Windows 7.
I know the tool is there, but that's not a "Tile" (in the sense that it can't be pinned to the start screen by using your method to find the shortcut). And like I already said, defragmenting is disabled for SSDs. When manually looking to see if the tool is present (in a somewhat obscure fashion) on an SSD equipped tablet, "laughing and walking away" at the idea it's still required is a misguided response that's just looking to find something wrong with the device.
It was all over the place... "Sold out!" "Record sales in Europe". "We got a winner over here" "Legendary Ramp" and so on.
It turned out to be not true. In fact, it turned out to be a complete lie.
Psychopaths tend to do things like that. What is normally a handicap is referenced as a selling point. I once had some idiot at LG telling me that a glitch was actually a feature! That's like telling me that calendars that are missing a month are a collector's item or some such nonsense. They say this stuff because most people are stupid enough to believe it or make themselves believe it somehow. If you tell them that getting ass fucked is good for the health, they'll line up to ride pole.
So now it's...
1) Move mouse
2) Wait
3) Click button
4) Move mouse with button held
As opposed to...
1) Move mouse
2) Click the [x]
Are the additional steps what Microsoft means by "added functionality"?
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
I am thinking of buying the upgrade because it is so cheap. Possibly the only reason for moving out of XP.
There was an unknown error in the submission.
Pressing Windows+I brings up the sidebar with the power button. Very easy...
yeah yeah everybody that doesn't do exactly what i do is an idiot or shill. Android is so stable i could land the rover on mars with it, and having google watch my every digital move helps me sleep at night.
> As it is, it makes it hard to recommend Ubuntu to a new user for the same reasons that it's hard to recommend Windows 8.
FYI, Ubuntu does not use Gnome-Shell. They use Unity, which is by far a not as radical department from Gnome2 as is Gnome-Shell. Anybody who used Gnome2 or W7/XP can get started with Unity within a day. The required amount of learning of the new UI is not bigger than switching to a Mac.
Other than W8 and Gnome-Shell, who both have placed all their bets on tablets, Canonical is still fully commited to supporting Desktop PCs for years to come. No only that, Canonical is experiencing their biggest growth ever in the desktop area, they would be crazy to abandon that as W8 and Gnome3 are doing.
Windows 8 is a pile of junk.
There is no excuse for it.
It is very fast and responsive... at doing twirly little pretty stuff.
It is faster than XP... but it does nothing.
XP lets me open programs! and look at 2 things at once!
Win8... does... nothing? really, I could figure out how to get desktop like screen up, but then browsing was hard because there were more layers of menus to do anything!
I want you to do well MS, just shove Metro into the taskbar sized widgetbar where it belongs, and give me a menu worth the damn.
Not initially, because people go blind when confronted with the unfamiliar and cannot see a damned thing despite it being "right there, in front of you!". Sure, once you see and know it, it's dead easy.
They didn't. The start menu button is still here, it's just hidden and thus takes up less space. Try clicking on the bottom left corner. You can still launch programs in two clicks, and due to the start screen taking up more space, there is more room for icons and thus more programs available to be started with two clicks.
I dream of a nation where a man is not judged by his skin color but by an number assigned by a credit rating agency.
that is so twisted and counter productive its not even funny. really?! middle of the title bar? why not far right corner to close and far left to minimize, that would go with the crap m$ have been shoving down our throats since we got out of DOS, kinda. having used windows since than i wouldnt even begin to think about the center of the title bar and resort to alt-f4, atleast they didnt take that away, yet....
Don't buy that shit. Windows activation is basically completely pwned by Microsoft themselves:
http://forums.mydigitallife.info/threads/38661-Activating-Microsoft-Windows-8-Pro-with-media-center-for-free-with-legitimate-key!
Of course, this isn't the first time we've heard complaints of a steep learning curve in Windows 8. When CNET senior editor Seth Rosenblatt reviewed the operating system last month, he noted that "the learning curve is steep and in-app navigation isn't obvious." Overall, however, he gave the operating system four stars out of five, earning it an "excellent" rating.
Normally I steer clear of the shills at C|Net. But since a good Win8/MS bashing is fun I followed the link.
That 2nd to last paragraph however did remind me that they are indeed total shills. Well played C|Net.
Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
This allows me to improve my method, but this new improved method still shows how broken the whole thing is.
The tutorial stresses that interactions are largely based around a "see and say" model. Hidden bars invoked with magic keyboard are not discoverable and don't fit that model.
Issuing combination key presses is covered, but the Windows+I combination is never mentioned, nor can it be expected that it should be innate knowledge (I'm a case in point, random Slashdot comments are really not the place to be learning something this essential).
The tutorial gives shut down instructions that don't, won't and can't work causing unnecessary confusion.
Even taking into account this new (to me) shortcut the speech interaction becomes:
"Start"
"Press Windows and I" (Woo magic)
"Show Numbers, Five, OK" (Woo "See and Say" doesn't work. Also it might not even be "Five" any more - the actual number will probably vary by the number of pinned tiles visible, so any customisation of the start menu means your memorised instructions become wrong.)
"Turn off"
This is a great improvement granted, but vastly inferior to:
"Start"
"Shutdown"
"Turn off"
So no, still not "Very easy".
I disagree, Alt is right next to the spacebar and F4 has a physical break between it and F5 on most desktop keyboards.
That's not the point. The point is, a new user will have no clue that he has to use a keyboard shortcut, or even that there are such things. I have a Linux box feeding a TV set I use for an entertainment center, the wireless keyboard has sat on a shelf since I last upgraded the OS. You should only need a keyboard if you want to type; we have mice and touchscreens these days.
There is no reason whatever why a new user shouldn't be able to use a computer off the bat without reading any fucking manuals (which MS no longer provides, anyway). But MS seems to want users to think "computers are hard." They shouldn't be. Everything you need to know should be up front, like the old Office "File" menu that they replaved the "file" with a cryptic button.
I think MS's top executives have gone stark raving mad.
Free Martian Whores!
I'm not sure, as someone who embraces technology (and can remember how people bitched and moaned about the change in UI when windows 98 dropped) I really like the new interface. I don't use a touch-screen (which I've heard makes it even better), instead I use a pair of large monitors just like many others. My only problem with the new interface is the lack of an easy way to shut it down without using keyboard commands (windows i). It's a PITA to have to logout and then shut down. I love the new news feed streams, and the ability to plug into social networking sites and aggregate all of my messaging in a single place. Those who are bitching and moaning about the change in interface are probably those who are still clinging desperately to Windows XP.
The actual sequence, assuming you're not running a full screen game of some sort (normal Desktop applications are fine, just nothing which disables the "Charms" menu):
Move your mouse to the lower right corner, let the charms menu pop out (a few ms of waiting, nothing big), move the mouse up to "Settings" (click), then the power icon (click) then shutdown/restart/sleep as per your usual decision (click). Three clicks, same as Windows 7.
Self-Edit (Sorry, didn't realize it was voice commands you were specifically talking about):
You give it the command for settings, then power, then shutdown. The key is that shutting down the computer has been moved from the familiar yet illogical Start button, to the equally illogically yet wholly alien settings menu.
I tried Gnome ten years ago and hated it, I've been happy with KDE. It seems like MS is trying to copy Apple and Linux, but are choosing the wrong things to emulate in those OSes. When I get off my lazy ass I'm replacing W7 with kubuntu on my notebook because I don't like having to enter a password on reboot, I don't like rebooting when I install a new program, I don't like having to reboot every Patch Tuesday, and when I do boot I want all the apps and docs open that were open when I shut it down. On the kubuntu "desktop" (more of a media center) I just push the power button and it's like it was before.
Free Martian Whores!
Drag to the bottom of the screen. It then has 15 second grace to save settings and the like.
You can pick up Metro apps either using the top of the screen if active or the Metro task bar when not active.
Wow, I should not post when knackered.
Does this not sound political?
"We just lost. Aw, dammit. Let's have a publicly available discussion on 'what went wrong', 'how we screwed up', and 'what not to do next time'."
stI've recently switched to KDE as well. After you get everything configured as you like (still not quite there yet for me), it can be perfect, I think. It lacks the integration a polish Gnome has in a couple of places, but it's way better than being forced to work in a non-optimal way.
I usually stay away from C|NET too, that link was in my Google News feed yesterday morning.
Free Martian Whores!
It is added functionality because you don't have to close "modern" apps on Windows 8. It keeps I think 7 open in the background if you launch an 8th it will automatically save the status of app #1 (the with that not being used recently and #7 being the most recent used) and then close #1 for you.
So this is actually a huge step forward for the average consumer. They no longer have to worry about closing apps, the OS does it for them and makes sure they have free resources.
Why they simply couldn't have let the USER choose when UI they wanted is beyond me, you know it would have been trivial to simply leave the Win 7 desktop UI in the system and let the user switch at any time.
Yeah, but then nobody would be in the crappy formerly known as Metro app store UI.
I am just waiting for the Surface Pro - and then they will get my money.
I have been playing with Windows 8 Enterprise (company MS EA as well as an MSDN) for a couple of months now on several machines - none of which have 'touch' capabilities, and I can appreciate the idea of "booting directly to the desktop mode including the classic Start menu", but can also see the value in the "Metro UI" for devices like the new Surface.
And a vast army of biased bloggers/developer/managers/MCSEs that depend on MS for their livelihood.
Unless you don't count those as major differences.
"Ahh! I see you're in that indeterminate Schrodinger state where - oh, uh
So this is actually a huge step forward for the average consumer.
And therein lies the problem. Few consumers actually fit this completely average profile.
This particular problem may affect only a certain number of users (I certainly wouldn't like this type of behaviour), but with all the stuff removed and functionally changed in Win8, pretty much everybody will find issues which will genuinely (and honestly) hinder them. Win8 is designed for the perfectly average user; there is no such user.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
If your modern application needs to do stuff in the background then you can code a background agent and it will behave like an iOS app. Your app can still do stuff while completely closed. You could say schedule it to upload photos on an interval, etc...
Windows 8 didn't remove anything. If you need the power of a traditional Win32 app -- then develop a traditional Win32 app. Which probably more useful for desktop users.
However if I am using an app to read twitter, facebook, watch a video or listen to music -- I shouldn't have to worry about closing them. Just let the system manage it and when I want to come back to the movie or music just click on the tile and it brings up my paused movie.
The vast majority of people also don't have 8+ applications running at once. Most people get along fine on an iPad -- so clearly the need to have 9, 10 apps all actively running and visible isn't needed by most people.
Right now I have outlook, IE, Visual Studio and Powershell ISE open.
If I needed an app to run in the background you can do that with modern apps using background tasks: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=27411
They didn't fire the woman responsible for Microsoft BOB either, look where that got her...
I agree, I was only pointing out how Alt+F4 is easy to find in the dark. :)
Some interfaces are going to be more efficient than others depending on where your hands are at the moment. For most desktop usage a touchscreen is going to be the furthest thing from your working area. Even more so for a media center PC, unless the remote is the touchscreen.
Personally I never understood the reasoning for hiding the keyboard shortcuts entirely. I think it started with XP? I know it looks a little cleaner, but how are you supposed to know what keyboard shortcuts do when the visual hints have been totally disabled? I know they can be turned back on, but what's the chance of the average user even finding the option?
Yeah it was there. I swiped right two screens and BAM there it was in the center of a bunch of other tiles.
The thing I dislike most about Windows 8 is that the new Metro apps have ads everywhere. Fire up the Music app? Ads in your face. You actually have to scroll to get at your own music. The Store? Same deal. Who on earth thought that was a good idea?
The apps also pretty much suck.
Actually I had an argument with a Microsoftie over this as yes you COULD have the appstore, hell they could have even backported it to Win 7 and made it a part of action center as well as a gadget. Instead they fucked up and killed Internet TV, which was the one gadget everybody liked, when they could have just transitioned over to the appstore and while showing them shows had ads that said "Like this episode? we can sell you the whole season right now!" and actually generated sales.
That is why I said if they would have put someone who actually knows customers instead of a PHB they could have been making money on BOTH Win 7 and Win 8, the whole thing was just handled so fucking bad there is zero hope now. BTW did you know both QB and Quicken will NOT support Win 8 except in the latest version? that software can go $600+, so right there they just lost the SMB market who live by QB/Quicken.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
When I first switch to Windows 2000, I was amazed at how beautiful the design of Windows looks. After more than a decade of improvement and development, the UI of Windows 8 is so totally unusable and just poor ugly. All the tiles are like what many students do for their college projects. They are just simply blank square / rectangle boxes with some images on it. Might as well just go back to text based menu, really.
Everyone hates apps or webpage that steal your desktop and take full screen, and the Metro Apps on Windows 8 do just that. It makes a multi-core powerful PC with ability of running multiple applications become a single task desktop. I have dual screen set up, and thus I can run two apps that take two full screens. Later I found I can make the app smaller (taking one third of the screen) and having the remaining screen for another app. I can't imagine I can only have ONE window on my entire 55" 1080p monitor.
Good thing is that I can still install the classic shell (have to worry and decide whether I should trust and install this application). And older software that works on previous versions of Windows are still working the way they are supposed to.
This needs an update thanks in part to this comment, but also because upon further testing tonight it appears Windows 8 simply couldn't understand me saying "Power".
When using speech recognition in Windows 8 the fastest way to shut down your PC that I now know is this:
"Press, Hold Windows, I"
"Power" (Accessibility hooks are present and correct, but recognition required further training)
"Shut down"
This still leaves the issues of an incorrect, outdated and misleading tutorial; breakage of the "See and Say" model (due to the required hidden menus); and the need for mysterious undiscoverable keyboard shortcuts. This final sequence is however far shorter and more manageable than my earlier attempt, so I'll document it here...
Revenue. Follow the money seekers. Careful where you puke.
--
XP user - hey, it's paid for.
Well the fact that I had Win 8 on this frankly damned nice looking custom tower, with a nice 2.8Ghz AMD dual with 4Gb of RAM and a DVD burner all wrapped up in this nice shiny black and red case and I don't get a SINGLE nibble? And that same unit is being carried out of my shop not 5 days later when Win 7 was put on it?
Well frankly I don't know what more evidence people need, hundreds of folks walked through those doors and never gave a thought to buying it but the EXACT SAME SYSTEM with a copy of Win 7 Home on it and it was gone before the end of the week, what else can you say? if that isn't the public speaking I don't know what is.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
I'm typing this on an MBP, but my first thoughts on reading the GP were of what Apple did to iMovie and FCE.
It has verifiable facts on 3 good things in Win8. Why a downmod?
Personally I never understood the reasoning for hiding the keyboard shortcuts entirely.
My hypothesis is that MS wants computers to be hard to use. It's the only thing that explains the Office ribbon.
Free Martian Whores!
My prediction: Project Blue (the incremental upgrade that MS is promising sometime next year) will be officially christened Windows 8.5 or Windows 8 Second Edition and bring a return to the conventional Start Menu, and be targeted exclusively at desktop/laptop users. It will of course retain all the benefits of Windows 8 (better virtualisation, faster booting, et cetera) but ditch the Metro UI since it's so poorly suited for knowledge workers and content producers. MS will acknowledge that bringing Xbox/desktop/tablet/phone onto a single NT-based core is a worthy goal, but that forcing the convergence of wildly different use-cases into one inferior computing experience was a stupid bet. Windows 8 on tablets has enough vestigial desktop baggage that it's confusing for new users; correspondingly, desktop users hate the arbitrary and tacked-on feel of Metro. Over in Apple-land, longtime Mac users have been screaming that Apple's iOSification of Lion and Mountain Lion has only succeeded in dumbing it down and making the Mac a more awkward platform for content creation: MS would be wise to take heed, rather than slavishly copying Apple's missteps as well as its perceived successes.
'He who has to break a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom.' -- Gandalf to Saruman
I went looking in \Program Files and found Windows Media Player already installed. Created an icon for MPlayer.exe -- done.
I come here for the love
Instead of Windows +I, you can also move your mouse to the bottom right to bring up the charms bar, and click on Settings.
The only way sales could be lower than my estimate is if people are pirating it then forging receipts & returning it for a refund.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
what moron in the 70s or 80s thought of F4 ?
Was it those vertical Function keys from the 70s that it was at the bottom so easy to hit?
ALT-ESC makes more logical sense.
Whats the history of ALT-F4 hmmmm
wiki? http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Alt_%2BF4
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
move your mouse to the bottom right of the screen, click the settings button that pops up, then click the little powerbutton
The UI is so fricking (made by engineers) its not funny.
If it had an xbmc style fullscreen UI (get rid of the stupid 100 menus, they are hard to use on a tv + wireless trackpad on kb)
Get out of the 1997 mindset, if you app is a media player, and for watching stuff full screen, make all of the UI 100% of it inside the fullscreen like a PVR.
VLC although the core and abilities are great (minus some mp4 bugs) , its name sucks, rename it to Ultimate Video Player, and fix its gui, delete all windows 95 based menus.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
Still on windows 7,
I rarely need to reboot, only if MS installs an update that requires a reboot, and those update reboots, always take longer as they need to install.
Having said that, I can reboot in 12 seconds ( hybrid hdd )
And its stupid to shutdown/reboot, ever heard of short term SLEEP, or long term HIBERNATE?
Infact unless I change hardware or some driver refuses to work again, I never ever do real reboots or proper shutdowns.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
Kubuntu.
Windows 8 desktop should have been Windows 7, and then they could have the Metro interface as an App. Invert the whole thing and they have no complaints.
I smell the scent of a woman..."charm"?. An embarrassment to any user. PC's are not toys-they are not oversized versions of tablets and people are more productive with keyboards and mice than playing find the missing spot games. How can Microsoft be so out of touch with actual pc usage as to produce this ivory tower version of nonsense. It's supposed to be their business. Well no change for us or our company happening here.