Of course there should be consideration and auditing. But there are enough climate scientists that agree on the fact that we're going to have a big problem if we don't fix it to invest in it. Why are you comparing this to some war-like situation like North Korea? The investments are required to prevent starvation. Not to keep the climate scientists from going to war with you. Climate change is not a shake down. It's the future and we must prevent it or deal with the consequences. Are you so sure the consequences will be minimal to bet the lives of millions of people on it? Even when the scientific community is extremely sure that it won't be minimal?
When you are willing to risk trillions by preventing an expenditure of billions you void your opinion. Most climate saving stuff isn't all that expensive. Trillions in cost is the heavily exaggerated version of the oil industry. The real pricetag is far lower. If you see a rock falling towards your head you move. Simple as that.
It's not faith. I could choose to check the calculations and assumptions. I just choose not to and I choose to default to what I consider to be least ridiculous theory. The theory supported by calculations and projections done by climate scientists all over the world.
We must prevent climate change or live with the consequences. You assume the consequences will be little. I assume they will be big. Since neither of them can be proven until it's to late both of us act a little on belief.
I will give one last argument: If a rock is dropping from a great height directly at your head you step aside to prevent it from dropping on your head. Why? It hasn't been proven that it'll fall on your head! Same with climate change.
Since upload vs download is a matter of perspective that's not true. The fact that your home connection has a different download speed than upload speed is due to differences in hardware and requirements. Cheap home modems can not transmit at the same speed as expensive cable/adsl switch points can. Besides most people only need limited upload at home. Download speed is far more important to most.
I am not a climate scientist. They know how to quantify that. I just believe them, while I lower my CO2 footprint. And if you aren't convinced by the projections from the climate scientists by now then I fear you are a lost cause, or you believe in the FUD that some spread.
It's not quantifiable yet. That's because the results aren't here yet. Are you still willing to risk most of human life on the hope that it'll be all right while we continue to put so much CO2 in the atmosphere?
That's the projected 2015 map. This is the map now.
That means the Tesla is not a "drive across the continent" car yet. But it doesn't need to be to be feasible. A charger at home and a charger at work is sufficient, assuming you work within approx 150 miles from your home, as most people do.
But any garage is going to charge you anyway for the blinker fluid. And the fact that it has no spark plugs doesn't mean they won't be "replaced" from time to time.
The costs of petroleum are not paid yet. The impact the massive amount of CO2 in our atmosphere has is still in our future. If you include the cost global warming is going to have then petroleum is expensive.
Don't exclude the costs from pollution in the cost/benefit analysis.
A comparison of the real cost includes the cleanup that is required after the electricity production. All the pollution, including CO2. Suddenly fossil fuel becomes a net negative in energy. That's only one of the subsidies that fossil fuel gets, they are legally allowed to pollute the planet. Hell, even including disasters nuclear is far less polluting. There the pollution is usually contained.
Cheaper solution: a cheap UPS on your boiler. If the USA ones are as efficient as the European ones the boiler can continue for long time on a UPS. It doesn't have to be a fast switching one, even my cheap one works perfectly and when I used that one on a computer and pulled the net plug the computer died before the UPS was on. Not quite fast enough.
There are many stories about generals who needed an organ so a prisoner incarcerated with a minor offense suddenly changed status to "death row" and was executed within days (no appeal).
I have no information on the validity of those stories, but once you grant people power there will be those who abuse it. If you don't know it, The Stanford prison experiment may horrify you. There is a reason some experiments are not repeated. These were normal people. The Milgram experiment is repeated, although the implications are about as shocking. The psychological damage to the test subjects is less though.
I hope that driving yourself will also become a hobby one day, one that is only allowed on a closed circuit. I am a bicyclist myself by the way and if it becomes feasible I will also grant the control over my bike to a computer. It is not such a high priority considering bikes are not such lethal weapons as cars are (no and bikes are not death traps either in the Netherlands. In the USA I would probably not ride a bike)
My home will keep an kitchen, because I like to cook. But once the food delivery companies lower their salt usage to below 10% upon request I will order more food. Until they do that it's just to lethal for me.
Adding a smart controller to a roomba would make it cost E200 or E300 more in hardware alone. On a car a couple of hundreds of euro's (or dollars) don't matter (and the advantages are clear) but on a roomba that money does matter. My roomba works fine and doesn't get stuck in corners, but maybe I am just lucky with my furniture choice.
Slashdot Mirror
1+1=2 [citation needed]
Of course there should be consideration and auditing. But there are enough climate scientists that agree on the fact that we're going to have a big problem if we don't fix it to invest in it.
Why are you comparing this to some war-like situation like North Korea? The investments are required to prevent starvation. Not to keep the climate scientists from going to war with you.
Climate change is not a shake down. It's the future and we must prevent it or deal with the consequences. Are you so sure the consequences will be minimal to bet the lives of millions of people on it? Even when the scientific community is extremely sure that it won't be minimal?
When you are willing to risk trillions by preventing an expenditure of billions you void your opinion.
Most climate saving stuff isn't all that expensive. Trillions in cost is the heavily exaggerated version of the oil industry. The real pricetag is far lower.
If you see a rock falling towards your head you move. Simple as that.
Now all we need is a direct punishment for misspellings.
Preferably active before the "submit" button.
A punishment for using caps lock! My prayers have been answered!
It's not faith. I could choose to check the calculations and assumptions. I just choose not to and I choose to default to what I consider to be least ridiculous theory. The theory supported by calculations and projections done by climate scientists all over the world.
We must prevent climate change or live with the consequences. You assume the consequences will be little. I assume they will be big. Since neither of them can be proven until it's to late both of us act a little on belief.
I will give one last argument: If a rock is dropping from a great height directly at your head you step aside to prevent it from dropping on your head. Why? It hasn't been proven that it'll fall on your head! Same with climate change.
Since upload vs download is a matter of perspective that's not true. The fact that your home connection has a different download speed than upload speed is due to differences in hardware and requirements. Cheap home modems can not transmit at the same speed as expensive cable/adsl switch points can.
Besides most people only need limited upload at home. Download speed is far more important to most.
Since this discussion isn't going to change either of our minds and it will not change the global policies I'll agree to disagree.
I am not a climate scientist. They know how to quantify that. I just believe them, while I lower my CO2 footprint.
And if you aren't convinced by the projections from the climate scientists by now then I fear you are a lost cause, or you believe in the FUD that some spread.
It's not quantifiable yet. That's because the results aren't here yet. Are you still willing to risk most of human life on the hope that it'll be all right while we continue to put so much CO2 in the atmosphere?
You're right: With a really aerodynamic bike you need to bike about 100 km a day to expend as much as you need as a baseline intake. That's a lot.
Details:
Efficiency (food to motion): 25%
Bike: Quest (Cw 0.22)
Speed: 50 km/h
Road quality: awesome.
No stops. No red lights.
Tape is mostly outdated. Nowadays we have harddisk worms except for some backup purposes.
Ah, but that'll be compensated for with electric arcs that are about as realistic.
That's the projected 2015 map. This is the map now. That means the Tesla is not a "drive across the continent" car yet. But it doesn't need to be to be feasible. A charger at home and a charger at work is sufficient, assuming you work within approx 150 miles from your home, as most people do.
But any garage is going to charge you anyway for the blinker fluid. And the fact that it has no spark plugs doesn't mean they won't be "replaced" from time to time.
The costs of petroleum are not paid yet. The impact the massive amount of CO2 in our atmosphere has is still in our future. If you include the cost global warming is going to have then petroleum is expensive.
Don't exclude the costs from pollution in the cost/benefit analysis.
According to some stories they both die.
A comparison of the real cost includes the cleanup that is required after the electricity production. All the pollution, including CO2.
Suddenly fossil fuel becomes a net negative in energy. That's only one of the subsidies that fossil fuel gets, they are legally allowed to pollute the planet.
Hell, even including disasters nuclear is far less polluting. There the pollution is usually contained.
Cheaper solution: a cheap UPS on your boiler. If the USA ones are as efficient as the European ones the boiler can continue for long time on a UPS. It doesn't have to be a fast switching one, even my cheap one works perfectly and when I used that one on a computer and pulled the net plug the computer died before the UPS was on. Not quite fast enough.
There are many stories about generals who needed an organ so a prisoner incarcerated with a minor offense suddenly changed status to "death row" and was executed within days (no appeal).
I have no information on the validity of those stories, but once you grant people power there will be those who abuse it. If you don't know it, The Stanford prison experiment may horrify you. There is a reason some experiments are not repeated. These were normal people.
The Milgram experiment is repeated, although the implications are about as shocking. The psychological damage to the test subjects is less though.
Those figures are not released, but Amnesty International has estimates and will probably monitor it as intensively as they can.
Yes and there is no problem with that.
I hope that driving yourself will also become a hobby one day, one that is only allowed on a closed circuit. I am a bicyclist myself by the way and if it becomes feasible I will also grant the control over my bike to a computer. It is not such a high priority considering bikes are not such lethal weapons as cars are (no and bikes are not death traps either in the Netherlands. In the USA I would probably not ride a bike)
But clouds are big. We should nuke them. All the clouds all over the world.
My home will keep an kitchen, because I like to cook. But once the food delivery companies lower their salt usage to below 10% upon request I will order more food. Until they do that it's just to lethal for me.
Adding a smart controller to a roomba would make it cost E200 or E300 more in hardware alone. On a car a couple of hundreds of euro's (or dollars) don't matter (and the advantages are clear) but on a roomba that money does matter.
My roomba works fine and doesn't get stuck in corners, but maybe I am just lucky with my furniture choice.