How Deadbeat Facebook Friends and Using ALL-CAPS Can Lower Your Credit Score

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How Deadbeat Facebook Friends and Using ALL-CAPS Can Lower Your Credit Score

Posted by samzenpus on Monday August 26, 2013 @07:47AM from the don't-like-this dept.

McGruber writes "CNN has the news that some financial lending companies claim that Facebook social connections can be a good indicator of a person's creditworthiness. One company determines if you are friends with someone who was late paying back a loan; if so, that is bad news for you. It is even worse news if the delinquent friend is someone you frequently interact with. Another company gathers information from the manner in which a customer fills out the online loan application. The chances of getting a loan improve if you spend time reading information about the loan on their website. Conversely, if you fill out the application typing in all-caps (or with no caps), you are knocked down a couple pegs in that company's eyes. A third lender requires that small business borrowers grant them access to the borrowers' PayPal, eBay and other online payment accounts (what could possibly go wrong with that?), thereby disclosing real-time sales and delivery information."

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Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 07:50 · Score: 5, Insightful

If your bank carries that much stock in Facebook "friends" you may want to consider borrowing from a different bank.
Kind of like employers who want your twitter password, just maintain eye contact and slowly back out the way you came in.
1. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Conspiracy_Of_Doves · 2013-08-26 07:56 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  The problem is, how do you know whether the bank even uses that as a metric?
  
  --
  
  Technoli
2. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by ShanghaiBill · 2013-08-26 07:58 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  There was a much better article about this in the Economist a few months back. The banks don't ask you for a list of your Facebook friends. It doesn't work like that. They get the information as part of your score from credit agencies. You will never even know it is happening. But I don't see why this is worse than other things they consider, like your zipcode or marital status. You are judged by the company you keep. Deal with it.
3. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by lightknight · 2013-08-26 08:01 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  "Bank of America wishes to be friends with you. Do you accept their request?"
  
  --
  I am John Hurt.
4. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by icebike · 2013-08-26 08:07 · Score: 1
  
  The problem is, how do you know whether the bank even uses that as a metric?
  You Friend your bank?
  Why would you even let your bank know you use facebook? Even your Teenage kids know better than that.
  
  --
  Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
5. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:09 · Score: 0
  
  The problem is, how do you know whether the bank even uses that as a metric?
  Easy. How would they know who my facebook friends are? If I had a facebook account, I'd limit access to my friend list. So they would have to ask. But since I don't bother with social networks, they won't find any bad "friends". Forcing them to do it the old fashioned way - see if I have a history of unpaid bills - or not.
  And no idiocy about being suspect for 'not being of facebook'. Plenty of people aren't there. Oldtimers. Youngsters who don't want to be on the same social network as their parents. It isn't cool anymore when mum is there. And people with enough real life to not have time for facebook. . .
6. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:10 · Score: 0
  
  Huh? That's exactly the point. This is statistically significant. Your bank would be moronic *not* to check this.
7. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by alen · 2013-08-26 08:11 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  why?
  a few decades ago banks would ask you for character references when you applied for a loan. cheap computing tech gave rise to credit scores
8. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by bws111 · 2013-08-26 08:12 · Score: 2
  
  These companies aren't banks. They are on-line 'better' ways of getting a loan. Lenddo, from the Philipines, is (according to their web site) "the world’s first online platform that helps the emerging middle class use their social connections to build their creditworthiness and access local financial services." Kredittech, from Germany, "uses BIG DATA and complex machine-learning algorithms to make better credit decisions." Kabbage, from the US, gets loans for small businesses, and they use real-time pay-pal data to see cash flow.
9. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by cdrudge · 2013-08-26 08:12 · Score: 1
  
  More likely "[TransUnion|Equifax|Experiean|Some_Subsidiary] wishes to be friends with you. Do you accept their request?" and then BofA just uses the result.
10. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by bluefoxlucid · 2013-08-26 08:15 · Score: 1
  
  Why? Your bank goes under, you're off the hook for the loan, whee!
  
  --
  Support my political activism on Patreon.
11. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:16 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  There was a much better article about this in the Economist a few months back. The banks don't ask you for a list of your Facebook friends. It doesn't work like that. They get the information as part of your score from credit agencies. You will never even know it is happening. But I don't see why this is worse than other things they consider, like your zipcode or marital status. You are judged by the company you keep. Deal with it.
  The big question is, when you have your privacy settings turned up do credit agencies still have a way to get your data? And less importantly, if they do turn up empty handed, do they use that against you with equal weight as being "friends" with deadbeats? In other words, is having a well-manicured facebook page now akin to having a cheap car loan (in good standing) on your credit record, to ensure you get a good rate?
12. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by sjames · 2013-08-26 08:18 · Score: 1
  
  Given the company banks keep, I would think they'd want to keep that sort of judgement as far from the discussion as possible.
13. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:22 · Score: 0, Insightful
  
  Deal with it.
  How about you stop being a sanctimonious wanker, eh?
14. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by h4rr4r · 2013-08-26 08:22 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Of course they still get that data, how do you think Facebook makes any money?
15. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:23 · Score: 0
  
  The problem is, how do you know whether the bank even uses that as a metric?
  *removed self satisfying, circle-jerk, quote about how much better than facebook he is and how he looks down his nose at idiots who use them*
  Then you end up getting turned down for loans (or paying more) because you aren't connected and you are a risk of being a fraud.
  Plenty of people with a "real life" use Facebook and they do fine. You really aren't better than those using it...
16. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by ShanghaiBill · 2013-08-26 08:24 · Score: 2
  
  why? a few decades ago banks would ask you for character references when you applied for a loan. cheap computing tech gave rise to credit scores
  Because personal references were a terrible way to judge credit worthiness. Credit scores based on your actual credit history are far more reliable.
17. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by NJRoadfan · 2013-08-26 08:26 · Score: 1
  
  Many banks use Chex Systems for account verification as well. People wonder why users of these services don't want to use their real name.
18. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Rogue974 · 2013-08-26 08:26 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Look at your list of Facebook friends if you use it. How many of them have anything to do with your credit worthiness or do you have any idea about their financial lives?
  Do you have any high school friends on there? A friend you knew when you were 14 who was cool then but has since become a dead beat? You both share a hobby that you shared at 14 so still talk about that a lot and you should be dinged for his bad decisions?
  You have a couple of brothers/cousins/family members who have made horrible financial decisions and declared bankruptcy a couple of times. You have done everything right and are responsible financially and so you are penalized for that?
  You join a club quilting club with a FB page and meet a bunch of people and several of them that are active quilters are doing so while foreclosing on their homes and so you deny me a loan?
  If the company has no financial information to go off, maybe I can see this being valid, but still a stretch. If you read the article, this company operates in the Philippines, Mexico and I forget the last country. Places where they have very little information to go off so thy use what they can. Judged by the company you keep on FB is ludicrous.
19. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Sperbels · 2013-08-26 08:28 · Score: 2
  
  one company determines if you are friends with someone who was late paying back a loan;
  
  why? a few decades ago banks would ask you for character references when you applied for a loan.
  
  If I friend a guy I knew 20 years ago in high school who didn't pay off a loan, what does that have to do with my ability to pay off a loan? Not a damn thing.
20. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by mrclisdue · 2013-08-26 08:28 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  The problem is, how do you know whether the bank even uses that as a metric?
  Well, if it's an American Bank, they haven't even switched to metric yet....
  ....I'm maintaining eye contact and backing away slowly....
21. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Ralph+Wiggam · 2013-08-26 08:28 · Score: 1
  
  If you don't like the company the bank keeps, then don't ask them to borrow money.
22. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Ralph+Wiggam · 2013-08-26 08:30 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  "Credit scores based on your actual credit history are far more reliable."
  The banks agree completely. This Facebook thing is specifically intended for applicants who don't have any credit history.
23. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by sjames · 2013-08-26 08:32 · Score: 1
  
  I would have preferred to not lend THEM money.
24. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by bws111 · 2013-08-26 08:33 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  To be clear, if you are in the US your FICO 'credit score' does not contain this kind of stuff. That score is made up of your available credit, repayment history, etc. The 'credit agencies' you refer to are not the agencies that give the FICO score. They are companies that try to determine an applicants creditworthiness in places that don't have the equivalent of FICO scores.
25. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by CanHasDIY · 2013-08-26 08:36 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  "Credit scores based on your actual credit history are far more reliable."
  The banks agree completely. This Facebook thing is specifically intended for applicants who don't have any credit history.
  OK, so either Ralph Wiggam has never heard the term "scope creep," or he works for one of the banks/credit reporting agencies, and therefore has a vested interest in demonizing anyone who points out how fucked up this practice is.
  Then again, this is a person who chose to name themselves after a (literally) mentally retarded cartoon character from one of the crappiest shows on TV today...
  
  --
  An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
26. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Hognoxious · 2013-08-26 08:39 · Score: 1
  
  If you're going for the funny, you need to spell them all wrong. You know, Crisco routers, Sonny televisions...
  
  --
  Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
27. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Seumas · 2013-08-26 08:41 · Score: 1
  
  Because most people connect with random people in their social network that they don't know, don't follow, and won't ever really have anything to do with or communicate with. Additionally, because there is no way to certify that the identity or information you found online has any relation to the person who you are applying it to, simply because they have a similar or same name.
  I banned a user from my site a decade ago because they were financially defrauding other members of the site and as a result, they "got back at me" by posting vile complaints about me on a "bad business" site (even though I don't actually DO any business) that doesn't ever remove anything about anyone for any reason ever. Should that really impact me? A random internet person who was a bad-agent griefing another person just because they got pissy impacting your financial credibility?
  Not to mention, what if I don't use facebook? (I don't - I only sign up on social sites to stake claim to my name) Now am I negatively impacted, because I "have no social circle" the same way I am negatively impacted if I "have no credit history"? Suddenly, it's better to be connected with several deadbeat twats than nobody at all?
28. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Hognoxious · 2013-08-26 08:42 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  You join a club quilting club
  They make equipment for pillow fighting?
  
  --
  Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
29. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Seumas · 2013-08-26 08:42 · Score: 1
  
  Right. And the NSA only uses their spying powers "for good".
30. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Hognoxious · 2013-08-26 08:45 · Score: 1
  
  You lent them money? You got off light, chum.
  
  --
  Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
31. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:46 · Score: 0
  
  Judged by the company you keep on FB is ludicrous.
  No it's not. It's a signal and I'd guess it's quite a strong signal at that, but for arguments sake let's suppose it's only a quite weak signal. What it all comes down to is what the purpose of credit scores is. Is the purpose of credit scores to maximize the profit of the companies who depend on credit scores in their business? Or is the purpose of credit scores to be a transparent and fair reflection of your financial life? Given that credit score companies make money from businesses and not from people, their view will be option one, so you get things like this. If you want option 2, you'd have to enforce it by some very restrictive legislation.
  Using data about your friends is a good example of an opaque and unfair signal that will most certainly improve the accuracy of credit scores on average. It's opaque because you don't know the financial status of your Facebook friends. It's unfair for the reasons you point out. It improves profit because the company your keep statistically does say a lot of things about you that are highly relevant to what your credit score should be - even if that signal won't be accurate in all cases.
32. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by pla · 2013-08-26 08:46 · Score: 2
  
  If I friend a guy I knew 20 years ago in high school who didn't pay off a loan, what does that have to do with my ability to pay off a loan? Not a damn thing.
  
  If you still have no credit history at 38, then you almost certainly still smoke weed with that high school friend in his mom's basement. This has nothing to do with your "real" FICO score, think of it more like the "payday loans" version of a credit rating. Nothing to see here, move along.
  
  As an aside, though - Why would you "friend" a deadbeat you haven't even bothered to talk to in 20 years? Anyone I would want to have stayed in contact with - I did.
33. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by CycleMan · 2013-08-26 08:48 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  If the company has no financial information to go off, maybe I can see this being valid,
  Yup, that's exactly the point of the article which you read.
  If I don't have proof whether you're responsible with money, but I do know that you are currently active friends with a deadbeat, your family members are likely highly supportive of you declaring bankruptcy, and your social circle has disproportionally high foreclosure levels, you look like a risk. Short of monitoring your conversations to ensure that you're not discussing anything financial with them, I have to assume that you rub off on them, and they rub off on you. And even if I know good things about you, which rubs off on them positively, this still takes you down a notch, because if you fall on hard times, you don't seem to have a network that will push to help you make your payments, unlike the guy whose friends and family all have stellar credit histories.
  That's always the pain of statistical models: someone's an exception. But lenders aren't venture capitalists; nobody's going to pay them back 10x their investment. So they minimize risk. The bank insists on 20% down for the best mortgage rates; the payday lender charges you $45 upfront for the $300 loan. In the absence of personal relationships that establish information and trust, everybody tries to protect their bottom line. Makes sense to me.
34. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Hognoxious · 2013-08-26 08:51 · Score: 1
  
  Yes and no. In 19 out of 20 cases it doesn't. That's no. In 1 out of 20 it does. So that's yes.
  Thing is, they don't know whether you're the one or one of the nineteen.
  I'm not in that line of business, but I rather suspect it's just one of a number of factors they consider.
  (Figures fictitious; VWP; YMMV; Ca residents just fuck off).
  
  --
  Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
35. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:55 · Score: 0
  
  Nope. His great uncle shoveled tremendous mounds of cash at the banks, and he didn't bother to check their credit ratings.
36. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:56 · Score: 0
  
  Good advice, thank you Hugenutsaxious.
37. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:56 · Score: 0
  
  That's neat and all but the company I keep are fans of my webcomic. The thousands of friends I appear to have are just there to look at my art...
38. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Bigbutt · 2013-08-26 08:58 · Score: 1
  
  However many of the 'friends' on facebook are old colleagues, friends from school, or even family. And most of _them_ are folks I may not have seen in quite some time. One of my relatives is pretty sketchy based on some of the posts I've seen and I have friends from both ends of the political spectrum. I'm not sure that judging me by my Facebook 'friends' is really judging me by the 'company' I keep. May as well judge me by the forums I visit.
  "Oh, he's on Slashdot. He's a geek and can be trusted with this loan."
  "He's a regular on rpg.net. As a gamer, he's probably poor based on the average of the pool of all gamers. Jack up his interest rate a point."
  "He's a regular on sportbikes.net. As a sportbike rider, he has an higher risk of injury or death. Jack up the interest rate 5 points just in case. Oh, and he's been on Killboy a couple of times, risk increase, kick in another half point. Check this, he's communicated with Warchild. That's worth another whole point!"
  [John]
  
  --
  Shit better not happen!
39. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by nospam007 · 2013-08-26 09:01 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  "Easy. How would they know who my facebook friends are?"
  They _buy_ that info from FB, remember, you are the product, they are the client.
40. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by pluther · 2013-08-26 09:02 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  ... people with enough real life to not have time for facebook. . .
  I love how people keep claiming they have a life and therefore don't use social networks... on Slashdot.
  
  --
  If the masses can keep you down, you're not the Ubermensch.
41. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by alexander_686 · 2013-08-26 09:02 · Score: 1
  
  I think you are trying to be funny. In reality you would get it from the bank.
  Banks are turning to Facebook / web analytics, etc. when the credit history from TransUnion etc. is thin to non-existent. Think of the unbanked, young people, 3rd world – or just climbing out of 3rd world status.
  Everything that I have read about this (as of today) is coming from big banks or internet start ups.
42. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 09:06 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Aside from the obvious issues of reliably associating accounts to people whom are unable to question the association, selling information on their communications and social arrangements with others without their consent and knowledge, while making reliable inferences that defy the natural law of inferences (even when the evidence is rock solid, your error rate can only go up).
  Let me give you a clue as to what this story is about.
  We have gotten to the point in our civilization where we have leveraged and financialized our lives, society and government to such a degree that we have ran out of actual valuable collateral; things like cars, houses, jobs, businesses, etc; and are now attempting to collateralize abstract things like social contacts.
  Meaning, instead of making loans to people who have the actual ability (Job, Investments) or Collateral (Car, House, Boat, Business) to pay, we are instead loaning money (perhaps borrowed money) out to people based upon what amounts to merely their social status because either people have too much debt already or are unwilling in this economic environment (for a variety of factors) are unable to imagine a new scenario in which taking on new debt produces value. Taking out a loan to buy a machine that produces pizza 10x as fast only makes sense if you're the first to do it, if you're the last to do it and take out a loan to do it, chances are you are taking on debt just to stay competitive. When everyone does that with everything, you get the mess that is today.
  We're flat out of suckers to keep the ponzi-economy of ever increasing cycles of debt being spent on ever less value afloat and the monstrosities at the top of the pyramid are trying anything to keep the game afloat because they have the most to lose from the collapse; namely their lives, fortunes, status and egos.
  This has nothing to do with being judged by the company you keep and everything to do with handing out loans based upon flimsy circumstance (When did Loaning money to Medieval Monarchs Ever work? There's historic precedence for this).
43. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Jiro · 2013-08-26 09:06 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Using someone's skin color as a factor in whether you grant them credit would also be statistically relevant and improve profit. We don't permit it, for a very good reason.
  Only in the modern era has it become possible to discriminate based on so many other criteria as easily as based on race. If someone walked into a loan office, their race was normally visible. But whether they were a Star Trek fan or whether they're in a knitting circle with a deadbeat wasn't, and it wouldn't be worth the lender's effort to find out.
44. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by St.Creed · 2013-08-26 09:08 · Score: 1
  
  This depends on your local laws. What happened over here last time a bank went under was:
  1. Savings are gone if they're over the guaranteed limit - they're used to pay off the creditors in order of priority. Guess what your priority is? Right - somewhere at infinity. Taxes and prioritized creditors come first.
  2. Your mortgage is an asset of the bank. They'll keep milking it for all it's worth or resell the mortgage to another bank. Or they can ask you to pay up, effective immediately. Good luck with that.
  
  --
  Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
45. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by BasilBrush · 2013-08-26 09:14 · Score: 2
  
  It's possible they are using an arbitrary points system such as you describe. It's more likely that they are using statistical analysis to actually measure the extent to which various variables affect people's credit worthiness. That still might not be accurate. But as long as the credit score is slightly better on average is enough to make it worth their while.
  Not that I'm defending it. I hate profiling and snooping. But there's no point in pretending it is completely ineffectual when it's probably not.
46. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Khyber · 2013-08-26 09:17 · Score: 1
  
  " But lenders aren't venture capitalists; nobody's going to pay them back 10x their investment."
  This comment shows your true ignorance. Go buy a house some time using a loan.
  Until then, your words mean nothing.
  
  --
  Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
47. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by alexander_686 · 2013-08-26 09:18 · Score: 1
  
  If they lend money then they are banks. They may not be traditional banks but they are still banks. (or maybe we could find a fancy word for them like finance company.) Heck, I would even classify peer to peer lenders as banks because they provided substantially the same services.
48. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Ralph+Wiggam · 2013-08-26 09:20 · Score: 1
  
  You're right. It's all a big conspiracy by The Man.
49. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by The+Grim+Reefer · 2013-08-26 09:22 · Score: 0
  
  And people with enough real life to not have time for facebook. . .
  And then there are all those living in poverty who have too much "real life". They are too busy trying to find food and shelter for themselves and their families.
50. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by AmiMoJo · 2013-08-26 09:23 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  I don't know why I'm surprised at how little consumer protection there is in the US any more. In the UK credit agencies are regulated and can't just use any information they can lay their hands on. You can add your own notes or get it corrected too.
  One thing that is specifically forbidden to be used is who you associate with or who you are related to. That's how we "dealt with it".
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
51. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by CanHasDIY · 2013-08-26 09:31 · Score: 1
  
  You're right. It's all a big conspiracy by The Man.
  OK, judging from this blistering comeback, I may have been mistaken - this could be the person that Simpson's character Ralph Wiggam is modeled after.
  
  --
  An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
52. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Khyber · 2013-08-26 09:34 · Score: 2
  
  "If you still have no credit history at 38, then you almost certainly still smoke weed with that high school friend in his mom's basement."
  I'm 31 with zero credit and zero debt - fuck you.
  
  --
  Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
53. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by laron · 2013-08-26 09:36 · Score: 1, Offtopic
  
  Damn, where are my mod points?
  
  --
  "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master."
54. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Ralph+Wiggam · 2013-08-26 09:43 · Score: 1
  
  Congrats on having heard the term "scope creep". Maybe one day you'll actually know what it means.
55. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 09:46 · Score: 0
  
  Which you base on... right nothing
56. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by cbiltcliffe · 2013-08-26 09:48 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Damn, where are my mod points?
  Facebook sold them all to BoA.....
  
  --
  "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
57. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by cbiltcliffe · 2013-08-26 09:50 · Score: 1
  
  And people with enough real life to not have time for facebook. . .
  And then there are all those living in poverty who have too much "real life". They are too busy trying to find food and shelter for themselves and their families.
  Those people probably aren't good targets for a bank loan, so it appears to be a good thing for the bank if they don't get it.
  
  --
  "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
58. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by buddyglass · 2013-08-26 09:50 · Score: 1
  
  Or borrow from your current bank but open a fake facebook account to game the system and juice your credit score.
59. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Sowelu · 2013-08-26 09:54 · Score: 1
  
  In his defense, with that ID number, he registered that name when The Simpsons was in its prime.
60. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by tlhIngan · 2013-08-26 09:55 · Score: 2
  
  Look at your list of Facebook friends if you use it. How many of them have anything to do with your credit worthiness or do you have any idea about their financial lives?
  Do you have any high school friends on there? A friend you knew when you were 14 who was cool then but has since become a dead beat? You both share a hobby that you shared at 14 so still talk about that a lot and you should be dinged for his bad decisions?
  You have a couple of brothers/cousins/family members who have made horrible financial decisions and declared bankruptcy a couple of times. You have done everything right and are responsible financially and so you are penalized for that?
  Well it could be argued that you let them default on their loans and such. After all, if they were clearly struggling, and you failed to help, then it's likely that if you are struggling, you will be unlikely to receive help.
  True, some bankruptcies and all that cannot be helped - some people make such stupid decisions that well, no matter what you do, they're going to hit the brick wall anyways (so the question becomes - why are you friends with people like this?).
  And there's always the peer pressure angle - perhaps if you have friends who declared bankruptcy, then maybe if you run into trouble, they'll say to declare bankruptcy and make your life easier.
  Also, it isn't a scientific study - the banks don't need solid evidence. They just need a correleation and circumstantial evidence - if some study says that people who have friends who declared bankruptcy are more likely to declare bankruptcy, that's good enough.
61. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 09:57 · Score: 0
  
  Good reason to partition your email addresses you use for social media.
62. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Adult+film+producer · 2013-08-26 09:58 · Score: 1
  
  If you're 31 with zero debt and credit that would indicate that you cheated the system somehow to get where you are.
63. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by jahudabudy · 2013-08-26 09:59 · Score: 1
  
  I've bought a couple of houses, and every time the lender had to show me the amortization rate of my loan. It's pretty crazy how much you pay in interest over the life of the loan, true. But if you're paying back 10x the loan amount, stop taking loans from the mob.
  
  --
  ...sometimes, in order to hurt someone very badly, you have to tell that person terrible lies. - PA
64. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by ColdWetDog · 2013-08-26 10:00 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Slashdot is an unsocial network. Thank you very much.
  Now, get off our lawn.
  
  --
  Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
65. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by CanHasDIY · 2013-08-26 10:08 · Score: 1
  
  Congrats on having heard the term "scope creep". Maybe one day you'll actually know what it means.
  What're you, 10? Maybe 11?
  Get off my lawn before you make an even bigger ass of yourself.
  
  --
  An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
66. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by CanHasDIY · 2013-08-26 10:09 · Score: 1
  
  Judging from his responses thus far, I'm inclined to believe he really is the son of Chief Wiggam.
  
  --
  An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
67. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by DocSavage64109 · 2013-08-26 10:10 · Score: 1
  
  "If you still have no credit history at 38, then you almost certainly still smoke weed with that high school friend in his mom's basement."
  I'm 31 with zero credit and zero debt - fuck you.
  That was uncalled for -- and you didn't even mention if you still smoke weed with your deadbeat high school facebook pals.
68. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by crackspackle · 2013-08-26 10:16 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  The problem is, how do you know whether the bank even uses that as a metric?
  Institutions wouldn’t get this information straight from Facebook but would instead use one of the many smaller credit reporting agencies and if they make a negative decision based on this, they are required by the Fair Credit Reporting Act to disclose this to you. If that happens, the CRA is then required to provide you a copy of the report provided to the given company. They could try to lie and make up some other excuse but they wouldn’t get away with it many times before a pattern would emerge and they would open themselves up to huge lawsuits should they be caught doing it. It’s worth noting a lot of the smaller CRA’s have the same annual reporting requirements as do the big three and you can request a free report from them. The Consumer Finance Protection Bureau has a PDF that lists many of the smaller CRA’s and how you can contact them.
  That said, I think that trying to plumb social networking information and deny credit is on par with redlining. It’s only started happening and I’ve heard of no legal challenges and I doubt the connections on any random social network can be completely separated from any of the factors that can’t be used to make credit decisions - race, color, religion, national origin, sex, marital status, or age. IANAL, but it would seem just looking at it could greatly increase your risk for an ECOA lawsuit.
69. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 10:17 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Slashdot is really more of an antisocial network.
70. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by bdwebb · 2013-08-26 10:23 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Your FB friends are not trustworthy and therefore /. has restricted your access to the moderation system.
71. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Cederic · 2013-08-26 10:29 · Score: 1
  
  Been there, done that. Didn't pay even twice the loan amount back, and far less if you factor in the time value of money.
  So I'm confused, why do his words mean nothing?
72. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Cederic · 2013-08-26 10:32 · Score: 1
  
  I'm 31 with zero credit and zero debt
  That doesn't mean you have zero credit history.
  But you're welcome to fuck him anyway.
73. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by bdwebb · 2013-08-26 10:44 · Score: 1
  
  Wow...you probably believe the federal government has your best interests in mind all the time, too.
  
  Marital status is a valid indicator of your financial stability as an individiual. Zip code identifies the general cost of living associated with the area for comparison to your existing debts and therefore helps determine how much credit you qualify for. Facebook analytics perform an analysis of your associations, hobbies, etc. and based upon arbitrary conclusions levy a judgement against you that affects your creditworthiness and therefore your ability to improve your circumstance.
  
  Ever hear of guilt by association? This is exactly that. Next time one of your friends drinks too much and drives home make sure to never talk to him again because by your logic you should be arrested for knowing him. While there may be some valid metrics they can obtain from shit like this, the likelihood that it will negatively impact those who don't 'deserve it' is astronomical. The first time anyone can equate a negative impact in their credit rating specifically to something like who they know is the time that the credit agency in question gets raped with lawsuits.
  
  I'm just flabbergasted by your flippant attitude to this. Everyone has grown up with people and taken different paths...everyone has friends or family members that fall on hard times. Unless everyone you know is perfect and you are also perfect, you don't get to talk anymore.
74. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by mysidia · 2013-08-26 10:47 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  What happens when someone else uses your real name maliciously to intentionally associate with other accounts under names of people known to be criminals or bad credit risks, OR when your real name is very common, so there are are 50 facebook accounts with your same name?
75. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Khyber · 2013-08-26 10:48 · Score: 1
  
  Nope. It's called being smart and not taking on expenses that can fuck with your credit score. Cell phone? Nope, don't have one. Internet bill? Paid off monthly.
  I don't show up on any of the major three credit bureaus.
  And I prefer it like that. They keep sending me offers for credit cards, I just rip them up and throw them in the trash.
  
  --
  Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
76. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Khyber · 2013-08-26 10:49 · Score: 1
  
  No, I use my medically-licensed cannabis by myself. That's kind of one of the rules of having a CA medical cannabis registration - with exception of being able to share with other licensed patients (of which I know none.)
  I'm also not on Facebook.
  
  --
  Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
77. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Sperbels · 2013-08-26 10:50 · Score: 1
  
  As an aside, though - Why would you "friend" a deadbeat you haven't even bothered to talk to in 20 years? Anyone I would want to have stayed in contact with - I did.
  Anyone can fall on hard times. Employment happens.
78. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Khyber · 2013-08-26 10:51 · Score: 1
  
  His words don't mean much given it's obvious he's never done a 30-year loan.
  You're paying almost 4-5X (or WAY more depending upon loan APR) that price if you follow the monthly payment and only pay off the monthly minimum.
  I watched my father get fucked by home loans. Thankfully, his father died and bailed him out with the inheritance money.
  
  --
  Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
79. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 10:55 · Score: 0
  
  ... But I don't see why this is worse than other things they consider, like your zipcode or marital status. You are judged by the company you keep. Deal with it.
  In the future, people might be convicted of fraud because they lied to Facebook?
  AFAIK, using your zipcode for determining credit worthiness, is called redlining, and it's mostly illegal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining, but it still happens.
80. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by CycleMan · 2013-08-26 10:57 · Score: 1
  
  What APRs are you looking at? A 30-year fixed with 5% APR is about 50% principal, 50% interest over 30 years. Current mortgage rates are 4.5%. Granted, in the 1980s, 15% interest rates were more common, but these are different times.
81. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by slick7 · 2013-08-26 10:58 · Score: 0
  
  The problem is, how do you know whether the bank even uses that as a metric?
  Better yet, shut them down, put them in jail, confiscate all their personal assets and give it to the poor, hungry, disenfranchised.
  
  --
  The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
82. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by pla · 2013-08-26 11:01 · Score: 1
  
  I'm 31 with zero credit and zero debt
  
  Those don't equal zero credit history.
  
  You've never bought a car? Had a student loan? Rented an apartment? Had a credit card? Had a utility bill, cable/satellite, or cell-phone service in your own name? Had a regular above-the-table job?
  
  fuck you
  
  Sorry if I hit a little close to (your mom's) home dude, but if you can honestly answer "no" to all of the above - If not Amish, you pretty much prove my point. I hear this season's OG Kush has a heck of a kick!
83. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by bdwebb · 2013-08-26 11:03 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  That's always the pain of statistical models: someone's an exception.
  And in the case where someone is an exception and can prove that their associations are the cause of being denied a loan or a job or in any way effecting an individual's credit, here comes the lawsuit. You cannot legally be denied employment and your creditworthiness cannot be effected by your associations. This would have far-reaching discriminatory consequences with regard to race, religion, financial 'class', etc. and ultimately force people to cut off others in their life who were not 'reliable'.
  
  Setting this precedent allows a true class-style system to be introduced whereby unless you are in the 'reliable' category, it is almost impossible to become 'reliable' because 'reliable' people won't associate with you or give you jobs. People would potentially be forced to ostracize family or friends from their realm in society for fear of being dubbed 'unreliable'. This sounds eerily like Gattaca except with financial systems instead of genetics (I know that a better reference is Huxley or possibly even McCarthy in some ways but I just watched Gattaca again a few days ago and it is fresh in my mind).
84. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by atomicxblue · 2013-08-26 11:08 · Score: 1
  
  I, personally, use ./ because I learn something new every time I visit. Facebook is quite the opposite. No one cares what you had for dinner or what your kiddo looks like eating a popsicle.
85. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by GoogleShill · 2013-08-26 11:26 · Score: 1
  
  Not taking on ANY credit is not smart and can actually hurt your credit score more than a few late payments. Cell phone and utility bills don't positively affect your credit score at all, but they can negatively affect it if you are late on payments. Only loans and revolving credit help you out.
  I have a house that has a fixed-rate 30 year loan and a tenant living in it paying off the entire principal + interest. That house is LITERALLY making me money just sitting there appreciating and I'll have it paid off far before the 30 years is up. If you can do it responsibly, going into debt now can make you a lot more money than saving up for everything. Judging from your other posts, you flatly believe that home loans are ripoffs, but I can mathematically prove that my decision to go into debt to buy the house works out better for me financially, plus I have extra money to live a better life right now.
  There are a lot of reasons why going into debt is not a bad thing. You just have to weigh the interest rate against the investment potential.
  To each his own, I'm not going to knock you for not going into debt, but don't act like it's the "smart" thing to do.
86. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 11:40 · Score: 0, Flamebait
  
  Actually reading through this... you have come off as an arrogant, rude prick who believes themselves to be more intelligent than they are. None of your comments have offered any guidance or insight.
  Its really sad how you perceive yourself and the world. I just feel sorry for you :(.
87. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 11:48 · Score: 0
  
  I'm sure when he registered that 5 digit UID, The Simpsons was still a mediocre or even above average show. The rest of your point stands without impeachment.
88. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by ogdenk · 2013-08-26 11:52 · Score: 1
  
  You are judged by the company you keep. Deal with it.
  Corporate America has no business knowing the company I keep. And a friend with bad credit doesn't mean I should have trouble getting credit.
89. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 12:22 · Score: 0
  
  I'm also not on Facebook.
  But your myspace page ROCKS!
90. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Ralph+Wiggam · 2013-08-26 12:27 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah. I came back after a 10+ year break because the IT department started blocking all of the good sites. How long has this place been terrible?
91. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 12:35 · Score: 0
  
  There are a lot of reasons why going into debt is not a bad thing
  And you are the reason of the decline of the economy. Fuck you.
92. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 13:02 · Score: 0
  
  If your friends only post their meals or images of their offspring, it's time to get a new set of friends.
93. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 13:12 · Score: 0
  
  Or they can ask you to pay up, effective immediately. Good luck with that.
  Is that part of any legal contract?
94. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by metrix007 · 2013-08-26 13:12 · Score: 1
  
  Nonsense. No single person is a product. Bulk information about demographics is a product, which isn't at all the same.
  
  --
  If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
95. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by mc6809e · 2013-08-26 13:13 · Score: 1
  
  Corporate America has no business knowing the company I keep. And a friend with bad credit doesn't mean I should have trouble getting credit.
  Well lenders are really lending other people's money. They've got to do their best to make sure they don't lose it.
  If the statistics argue against lending money to those that have friends that are bad risks, then the rational and logical thing for them to do is to decline the loan or increase the interest rate.
  Doing the opposite is statistically just throwing money away.
96. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by FuzzNugget · 2013-08-26 13:28 · Score: 1
  
  And what do you do when all banks begin using this metric?
97. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by tragedy · 2013-08-26 13:48 · Score: 1
  
  Easy. How would they know who my facebook friends are?
  Uh, gee, how about they just pay facebook a modest fee to provide them that information?
98. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by hjf · 2013-08-26 14:34 · Score: 1
  
  In Argentina we have 43% annual for credit cards right now =D
99. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by tragedy · 2013-08-26 14:44 · Score: 2
  
  I think the GP may be referring to the lender's actual financial risk in lending to you. It's very complicated. Essentially though, financial institutions loaning you $300,000 to buy a house don't actually need to have that $300,000 themselves in order to loan it to you. They can essentially loan it to you on a margin and more or less create the money out of thin air. It only starts to become real cost to them if enough people don't pay back their loans.
100. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by cdwiegand · 2013-08-26 14:44 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  We are already there. Case in point - my wife and I. My family is poor, my mom's already had one bankruptcy, and I now make more than the rest of my family DOUBLED. My wife comes from a solid middle class family, both her mom and her dad have 50K credit cards (real Platinum-class cards back then). She and I married, moved in together, and after a few years started to get credit cards. I got a $300 credit line, she got 5K. My second card eventually got approved, $500. Her second? Over $4000. At this point she has $12k in credit and I have around $4. The only one with a job is me - when she got her cards she was working part-time in a book store making 8.50/hour, prior to that she was in college. I was making 50k a year as a computer programmer.
  I got saddled with my family's credit "worthiness" and she benefited from her family's. I *still* cannot get as much credit as she can, even though we've been married for 13 years, my name is on the mortgage, the car loans (one already paid off), and I'm still the only one with a job (she's a stay at home mom), but she keeps getting the card offers in the mail and I don't. So, yes, we are ALREADY in a class-style system for credit.
  
  --
  . Define sqrt(x) as something really evil like (x / rand()), and bury it deep. Watch your coworkers go nuts.
101. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Stiletto · 2013-08-26 14:50 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  I love how people think "privacy settings" mean jack to a company that makes money selling personal data.
102. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 14:51 · Score: 0
  
  I wouldent be too hasty judging those from the 3rd world. I get a lot of promising business oppertunities in my mail from there.
103. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by iamstretchypanda · 2013-08-26 15:15 · Score: 1
  
  If the lenders and credit agencies tell end customers what factors penalized or improved their credit score, then this credit score sabotage won't be as effective. This kind of thing does happen, so it is important to be transparent so that the issue can be easily appealed and the loan reviewed.
104. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by lightknight · 2013-08-26 15:41 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah...using Facebook for data mining would be the epitome of scraping the bottom of the barrel. I mean, the Finance people are really messing up: they should drop what they're doing, and hold a class (mandatory) on how to balance a checkbook, as well as offer some classes on how to actually invest / budget / handle loans in a non-idiotic way. True, historically high defaults is certainly making them a lot of money, but it's all paper -> not enough stuff is being produced to offset that paper creation, so essentially more paper for less stuff is a losing proposition (the downside of destroying markets for personal gain). Since there is less total supply, the price for individual items goes up, which means that extra dosh is kind of...pointless. And the goal at the end of the day is not to have a pile of paper, but a pile of stuff...at least if you are pursuing the materialistic route.
  
  --
  I am John Hurt.
105. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by 1s44c · 2013-08-26 15:55 · Score: 1
  
  ... people with enough real life to not have time for facebook. . .
  I love how people keep claiming they have a life and therefore don't use social networks... on Slashdot.
  I love how people keep eating at Wendys and therefore don't eat at McDonalds.
106. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by 1s44c · 2013-08-26 15:59 · Score: 1
  
  I, personally, use ./ because I learn something new every time I visit. Facebook is quite the opposite. No one cares what you had for dinner or what your kiddo looks like eating a popsicle.
  There is still some good stuff on slashdot but reddit.com is eating slashdot's pie and it's been going on for some time.
  I agree about facebook, It's all inane nonsense from self absorbed jerks. At least slashdot is semi-technical chatter from self absorbed jerks.
107. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by pete6677 · 2013-08-26 16:00 · Score: 1
  
  If you keep getting offers for credit, you're in somebody's database. Banks don't just send them to random names at random addresses and hope to sometimes get it right.
108. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 16:11 · Score: 0
  
  I can't think of the last time I learned something new and worthwhile on Slashdot. I really only come here out of habit because it's in my feed and sometimes titles are misleading enough to get me. However it's inevitably either a stupid story or something that long ago made the rounds elsewhere. I always say I'm going to delete it from my feed but I never actually do. It's been there for 14-15 years now and it's like an old drunk uncle who used to be cool when he was young but is still family no matter how far gone he is.
  On Facebook I have a set of smart and interesting friends with exciting jobs that take them around the world or working on amazing things like space flight. I learn fascinating things from these people almost daily.
  Perhaps you're a bit slow or not very well read (to find information on Slashdot new and exciting) and consequently have peers and a family that are also kind of ignorant and slow and have focused their attention on typical things like breeding and television. It's okay. I mean, someone has to be below average.
109. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by mysidia · 2013-08-26 17:01 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  This kind of thing does happen, so it is important to be transparent so that the issue can be easily appealed and the loan reviewed.
  Well; the problem with that is anyone can disavow the legitimacy of their own FB account. Furthermore; they can't possibly meet the FCRA requirements of disclosing all the pertinent information --- they have to disclose it, BUT if they tell you that Person X your "friend on Facebook" is a deadbeat, then the CRA has just broken the law by providing you private data about someone else's finances.
110. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Daniel+Dvorkin · 2013-08-26 18:14 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  I love how people keep eating at Wendys and therefore don't eat at McDonalds.
  I love how people who don't eat at McDonalds keep telling everyone how they don't eat fast food ... if you can understand them around the mouthful of Wendy's.
  
  --
  The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
111. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Daniel+Dvorkin · 2013-08-26 18:20 · Score: 1
  
  One thing that is specifically forbidden to be used is who you associate with or who you are related to. That's how we "dealt with it".
  Gitouttahere! We don't need any of your socialist Eurotrash ideas! Here in the Land Of The Free(tm), giant faceless corporations can do anything they want with our personal information, the way God and George Washington and Ayn Rand intended!
  
  --
  The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
112. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 18:26 · Score: 0
  
  Banks are always looking for someone with money who need a loan for an investment which will hopefully net yet more money.
  
  The banker can then make the loan, knowing that if things go wrong, he can foreclose on the whole shebang and borrower loses all.
  
  This happened a few years ago. Big time. They are up to it again. And they will do it again.
  
  Basically, what I am saying is do not depend on banks. They are leeches, demanding interest on money they are chartered to create out of thin air. By agreeing to pay higher prices for homes, we guarantee the asking price will be ever higher and higher - financed by banks - and paid for over a lifetime - only to be regained by the bank at the end of your life disguised as a reverse mortgage to pay ever higher medical bills.
  
  The system is gamed. Gamed so heavily that anyone with the initiative to produce anything is taxed and fee'd back to welfare levels.
  
  If you produce anything, keep it under the table. The government can print money - you can't - that is counterfeiting.
  
  Maybe the day will come when this country needs to actually produce stuff, but for now your best bet in landing a good paying job is finding how you can keep someone else from doing something, then exact a fee from him for permission to proceed.
113. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by KGIII · 2013-08-26 18:51 · Score: 1
  
  That's a pretty strange leap in logic up there.
  How about if you hang out with your drunk driving buddy, and a few others, and they keep doing it while you continue to hang out with them you *will* be judged by those who know this information. "Oh, him? He hangs out with so-and-so and his friends." Not only is it a valid metric it's a pretty good way to draw assumptions when you're looking at a group as a whole.
  Are there exceptions? Of course.
  Are you wanting government to step in and save you from your association's behavior and the potential judgment from it? Why yes, yes you are.
  You can tell which one I think is worse...
  
  --
  "So long and thanks for all the fish."
114. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by KGIII · 2013-08-26 18:53 · Score: 1
  
  If you cared you would not give that information out to people and surely wouldn't give that information out to a source that is looking to monetize it AND tells you ahead of time that giving them this information means you have no control of it. You'd look out for yourself and think about what you're doing, right?
  
  --
  "So long and thanks for all the fish."
115. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by KGIII · 2013-08-26 18:55 · Score: 1
  
  What do you think you're doing when you put money in the bank? That's why they pay you interest (well, used to) on the money you put into your account. You're loaning 'em money.
  
  --
  "So long and thanks for all the fish."
116. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Cederic · 2013-08-26 19:01 · Score: 1
  
  My point is that I've cleared a 20 year mortgage paying only 55% of the principle in interest, not the 400% you're claiming.
  I've paid it off early by a couple of years but that hasn't saved me a miraculous 350% interest.
  Home loans can be managed and even with stagnant house prices work out far better value than renting.
117. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by KGIII · 2013-08-26 19:03 · Score: 1
  
  You assume they're not living in their mother's basement or some other cliche that is similar. If they're 31 and have no debt or credit rating then they're likely a failure at life by most metrics. But I'm sure they're happy and I'm completely positive that anything they type to refute the idea is 100% true. They'd probably get a stark realization if people would stop tipping the 31 year old pizza delivery man. Seriously, go pick your pizza up personally or tell them you'd rather a delivery person who's not stoned and actually needs the job - it will help him out in the long run.
  
  --
  "So long and thanks for all the fish."
118. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by KGIII · 2013-08-26 19:08 · Score: 1
  
  Don't make fun of him! It's his MEDICINE!
  I smoke weed, I smoke it 'cause I like to get high. I advocated for legal weed, we have it, but I think it should be completely legal for consumption by anyone who's reached the age of majority. I'm also retired. Chucklefuck here is 31, has no job (or will lie about one) worth mentioning, and is obviously a loser. But, hey, they haven't had any credit, a new car, a house, a checking account, bills in their name, or anything like that. But oh yeah are they happy with themselves and what they've made of themselves. *sighs* The world is full of pathetic people. That's okay - and if they find the lifestyle fitting then good for them. They shouldn't lie and pretend to be something more than what they are though.
  
  --
  "So long and thanks for all the fish."
119. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by bickerdyke · 2013-08-26 20:06 · Score: 1
  
  I got a $300 credit line, she got 5K. My second card eventually got approved, $500. Her second? Over $4000. At this point she has $12k in credit and I have around $4
  If you think that the amount of money someone might be willing to borrow you has some real effects you're missing something: No matter what the amount of credit is, you have to pay it back. If you buy something for $2000 on your credit card, you have to pay pack $2000, no matter if you're taking it from a $4k or $200k line of credit.
  Having a credit limit of $5000 does not mean you have $5000. Best is, to pway with your own money. If you don't have the money to buy something, you can't afford buying it. (*)
  (*) Exceptions are long-term investment goods. Translates to "house and car" for most of us. But you're not buying that on your credit card limit.
  
  --
  bickerdyke
120. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by bickerdyke · 2013-08-26 20:22 · Score: 1
  
  Not taking on ANY credit is not smart and can actually hurt your credit score more than a few late payments.
  I always wanted to know what moron came up with thar hare-brained idea. I mean, what else could be a better indicator of being financially unstable than that you have to rely on borrowing money on a regular level?
  
  --
  bickerdyke
121. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Captain+Hook · 2013-08-26 21:20 · Score: 1
  
  nowhere in the GP post does he says he considers a line of credit as having money.
  
  He is simply stating that despite being in a supposedly better financial position than his wife because he has provable source of income, his wife is offered much better lines of credits and that he believes this is due to their backgrounds.
  
  --
  These comments are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the other voices in my head.
122. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 21:37 · Score: 0
  
  "they would open themselves up to huge lawsuits"
  which they would settle out of court for laughable amount
123. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by DirtyLiar · 2013-08-26 21:43 · Score: 1
  
  What happens when someone else uses your real name maliciously
  U R Squed
  
  --
  THINK! It's patriotic
124. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by DoninIN · 2013-08-26 22:21 · Score: 1
  
  Corporations of the giant sort aren't faceless. They are people now didn't you know? Don't discriminate against Bank of America!
125. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 22:26 · Score: 0
  
  Credit worthiness can be a misnomer, it can just as well mean "profitability potential".
  If your wife is viewed as more likely to get herself into heavy debt and pay more interest and hence generate more profit she'll get higher offers of credit. You'll get less because they don't want to have to make too much credit available to you if you're not going to bring in much profit for them.
  If you've been paying off your credit quickly and not been using much then they'll recognise you as being less profitable than someone who will max out a credit card and only pay the minimum back.
  Disclaimer: I work in this industry, albeit in Europe where protections are stronger and we wouldn't get away with the sorts of shit described in TFA, nor would we want to because it would be a pathetic identifier for credit worthiness.
126. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by gmclapp · 2013-08-26 22:43 · Score: 1
  
  If someone is looking for credit worthiness, your demographic is of some interest, but information about the individual in question is more valuable. If someone wants to buy it, BoA, and someone is able to sell it, FB, than an individual is a product.
  
  --
  Common Sense (+1)
127. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 23:25 · Score: 0
  
  Actually, I've recently found out that a number of my employees (upper 20's) have 0 credit history. They live within their means, and use cash/debit card for everything. I think the rise of the debit card usage has really hurt peoples ability to get a solid credit history going. Historically, everyone I know just charged everything to a credit card and payed it off in full in order to avoid having to carry a big wad of bills. Now they still don't have to carry the wad, but they don't have to "go in debt" with a credit card. They just swipe the Debit card, and viola. 0 credit history.
128. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by slash.jit · 2013-08-26 23:40 · Score: 1
  
  I wish FB dies ASAP!
129. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by gatkinso · 2013-08-27 00:19 · Score: 1
  
  Outstanding loans are part of the assets that are sold off (to other lenders) in order to pay the banks debts.
  So don't be late with that next payment... you'll be getting a new "coupon book" (not that anyone uses these anymore) in the mail shortly.
  
  --
  I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
130. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by coinreturn · 2013-08-27 00:22 · Score: 1
  
  As an aside, though - Why would you "friend" a deadbeat you haven't even bothered to talk to in 20 years? Anyone I would want to have stayed in contact with - I did.
  Perhaps this friend is an ex with which you are trying to hook up.
131. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by tragedy · 2013-08-27 00:45 · Score: 1
  
  Well, the personal attack was certainly unnecessary, but he's completely correct about scope creep. Credit scores, for example, used to be pretty much expressly forbidden for use in deciding whether or not an institution loaned people money and they were quick to assure people that they actually looked at the credit history. Today, it's a given that they go pretty much exclusively by the number.
132. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by tragedy · 2013-08-27 00:58 · Score: 1
  
  If you're 31 with zero debt and credit that would indicate that you cheated the system somehow to get where you are.
  And this gem from previous poster:
  
  If you still have no credit history at 38, then you almost certainly still smoke weed with that high school friend in his mom's basement. This has nothing to do with your "real" FICO score, think of it more like the "payday loans" version of a credit rating. Nothing to see here, move along.
  Wow, what is wrong with people today that they blindly accept things like this as axioms? What possible use would someone who has always made enough money to live and/or has reliable friends/family to turn to when they need to borrow (even if they have other friends/family who aren't reliable) have for carrying institutional debt that would give them a credit score? Sometimes you actually save money if you use credit wisely. For example, I recently bought a car and it was cheaper to finance it than to pay for it outright since the car company gives the dealer a credit if the customer finances. So financing, then paying it off on the first payment is cheaper than buying the car in full. Also, various credit cards have cashback programs and so forth, and there's plenty of stores that offer you instant savings on your purchase if you register for their store card, etc. There are plenty of places to buy a car where it's not cheaper to finance, or time cost of having to deal with that might not be worth it to some people. Same for those store cards, not to mention the fact that, if you apply for one with no credit history, you'll probably be rejected (then that rejection will probably hurt your credit score).
133. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by bluefoxlucid · 2013-08-27 01:01 · Score: 1
  
  That depends. I knew a fellow who quit paying his because he couldn't pay it off. The banks didn't know who owned his mortgage, so he cut the payments. Nobody ever contacted him.
  
  --
  Support my political activism on Patreon.
134. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by i+kan+reed · 2013-08-27 01:27 · Score: 1
  
  I thought Facebook sold individualized personal information to companies.
135. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Conspiracy_Of_Doves · 2013-08-27 01:34 · Score: 1
  
  I use /. because if I don't block my office computer's access to reddit, I don't get any work done.
  
  --
  
  Technoli
136. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by ogdenk · 2013-08-27 01:35 · Score: 1
  
  If you cared you would not give that information out to people and surely wouldn't give that information out to a source that is looking to monetize it AND tells you ahead of time that giving them this information means you have no control of it.
  
  That is absolutely correct. And because I haven't been a slave to banks and credit agencies since reaching adulthood and preferring to pay for things outright (including cars), no bank will touch me. The only bad debts I have are medical because reasonable insurance is unavailable for the lower middle class nowadays.
  
  You'd look out for yourself and think about what you're doing, right?
  Yep. Most people are so desperate for the cash they don't even bother to read the documents however. They just bend over and take the abuse. Unfortunately, since so many people do this, banks can get away with f**king me over. If 50% of the populace is willing to be abused, it's perfectly ok right?
137. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-27 01:39 · Score: 0
  
  Ralph is a cop. Haven't you ever seen The Simpsons?
138. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-27 01:54 · Score: 0
  
  2. Your mortgage is an asset of the bank. They'll keep milking it for all it's worth or resell the mortgage to another bank. Or they can ask you to pay up, effective immediately. Good luck with that.
  While yes they can and will sell the mortgage contract to some other company the new mortgage contract owner still has to abide by the contract terms. So it is always key to ensure that the contract does not allow them to call in the loan. On modern mortgage contracts they even have a box that tells you if they can do this or not (at least the one for my refinance did) so if who ever the holder is demands that I pay up I can just tell them to fuck off. Let them take me to court since if they are going to brake the contract I will counter sue to have the contract declared null and void and ensure that I own the property in the clear.
139. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Daniel+Dvorkin · 2013-08-27 03:18 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, of course, you're right. That was terribly un-PC, wasn't it? Forgive me.
  
  --
  The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
140. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by metrix007 · 2013-08-27 04:12 · Score: 1
  
  Well no, the tiny bits of information has about that person is the product. The person is still the person.
  If I do a survey among 100 people of which you are 1 about favorite flavors of ice cream, and sell it to a girl your dating so she can surprise you....my survey is the product, not you.
  Anyway, I thought it was illegal to sell an individuals information like that?
  
  --
  If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
141. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by helix23011 · 2013-08-27 04:55 · Score: 1
  
  Some in the financial industry are skeptical about social data and online behavior being used as a kind of credit score. There are several people who have friends on Facebook that talk to them over chat and never talk to them again or never meet them in person there social friends not people they spend time with on a regular basis. There not people they take advice from there people there trying to catch up with from college, high school and other places so why should that effect there credit score.
  
  --
  http://allamericancomputerrepair.com/
142. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Safety+Cap · 2013-08-27 05:08 · Score: 1
  
  HALO SIR OR MAM!1!!!!!! I WISH 2 TAEK OUT A LOAN FROM UR FIEN BANK!1!!11!1! OMG WTF AS U CAN SE I HAEV AN EXC3LENT FINANCIAL RECORD HAEV BEN AMPLOY3D AT TEH SM3 JOB FOR 7 Y3ARS AND HAEV NO OUTSTANDNG DEBT!1!!! OMG THANK U FOR UR TIEM!!11! WTF
  
  --
  Yeah, right.
143. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by tragedy · 2013-08-27 06:49 · Score: 1
  
  Brings up the weird thought of someone who has $300,000 in savings and a $300,000 in mortgage debt with the same bank. Bank fails and what? They end up owing the bank $300,000 and the bank owes them nothing?
144. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by St.Creed · 2013-08-27 06:58 · Score: 1
  
  Usually, yes. In case of a default of either side this would normally void most contracts. This may depend on the laws in your country though. And another thing is that the executor of the bank has farreaching powers, including the power to override contracts in some cases.
  
  --
  Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
145. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by St.Creed · 2013-08-27 07:04 · Score: 1
  
  Well, not completely. The $300.000 in savings would be partially protected, so you'd lose $200.000 in savings. This happened in the default of the Dutch DSB-bank to some people.
  Ofcourse, you would get a claim on the bank in return for your $200.000 but good luck getting that money back. Although in case of the DSB bank it actually may come to pass, since after the owner no longer got to suck the bank dry and they fired all non-essential employees, it started making money at a rather nice rate :)
  Note that most mortgages have a clause saying that you cannot compensate payments due by the bank to you by withholding payment from the bank for the mortgage. That is specifically for situations like this because otherwise a default would be impossible to sort out. Also, the mortgage holders could then get rid of their loans by defaulting en masse and also removing all their savings at the same time. To avoid those scenarios the savings and loans are separate financial items.
  
  --
  Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
146. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by gmclapp · 2013-08-27 07:09 · Score: 1
  
  In the case of a survey you are correct. In the case of getting information on an individual, the information on that individual is in fact the product. You are correct when you say it is illegal. But if you think the information is not being sold, or that any information you put on a site like Facebook is private, you are rather naive. Not intending to be insulting, but it is what it is.
  
  When I say the individual is a product, I obviously don't mean that the person is being bought/sold. I realize my wording makes it sound that way, but frankly, I'm surprised you didn't see the intended meaning... Personal information on the individual is the product.
  
  --
  Common Sense (+1)
147. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by tragedy · 2013-08-27 07:11 · Score: 1
  
  To avoid those scenarios the savings and loans are separate financial items.
  It sounds to me like the answer here is: "yes, the bank can drop its financial obligation to you and pay off other creditors preferentially, then turn around and insist that you owe them money". Things like this and the fact that savings accounts typically pay interest lower than inflation makes me wonder why on earth anyone trusts banks at all.
148. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by St.Creed · 2013-08-27 07:19 · Score: 1
  
  You're quite right. But trusting the banks never was a really good idea, despite their own propaganda. Spreading your savings over multiple banks is really the prudent thing to do.
  
  --
  Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
149. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by geekoid · 2013-08-27 09:07 · Score: 1
  
  " Not only is it a valid metric it's a pretty good way to draw assumptions when you're looking at a group as a whole.
  why don't you just read the bumps on his head? it's about as accurate.
  Learn to think and evaluate.
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
150. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by geekoid · 2013-08-27 09:08 · Score: 1
  
  Except other people can give then this information,. You dont have to signed up to facebook to be profiled by facebook.
  You just need friends that talk about you.
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
151. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by geekoid · 2013-08-27 09:11 · Score: 1
  
  It never recovered since use 22354 signed up. That shot the average IQ right to the floor.
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
152. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by geekoid · 2013-08-27 09:26 · Score: 1
  
  You are a liar.
  http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=192548&cid=15805879
  Why do you make things up? Are you really that alone? See a professional for help.
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
153. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by david_thornley · 2013-08-27 09:54 · Score: 1
  
  I borrow money regularly, and I'm quite financially stable. My wife and I use credit cards for convenience, and it doesn't cost us anything since we pay off the entire balance each month. We borrowed money for our house, which we're paying back on schedule, and for a car (ditto), both at interest rates that are roughly what we get on our investments or less. My wife and I are known, through decades of empirical evidence, to repay loans promptly.
  Now, suppose you've lived to 30 without borrowing a single dollar commercially. It's possible you've been an excellent money manager and earner, or it's possible you've been living like a bum since being kicked out of your mother's basement. Given available information, it's impossible to say. What the lending institution does know is that you're getting into a situation you don't have experience with, since you haven't owed money to an institution before. This means that they have very little idea of what you'll do when you have to make regular payments (and there's an excellent chance even you won't really know until you try). That doesn't inspire confidence.
  
  --
  "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
154. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by bickerdyke · 2013-08-27 10:42 · Score: 1
  
  Using credit cards like that is using them as a form of payment and not using them as source of credit. And car and house were exactly the two exceptions I already mentioned where credit is used to spread a payment across a longer timeframe and not primarily to spend money you don't have.
  
  Now, suppose you've lived to 30 without borrowing a single dollar commercially. It's possible you've been an excellent money manager and earner, or it's possible you've been living like a bum since being kicked out of your mother's basement.
  But either way, he didn't spend more money than he had.
  
  --
  bickerdyke
155. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by metrix007 · 2013-08-27 10:44 · Score: 1
  
  I'm familiar with the concept of a person being a product, in terms of the information representing them. It's just nonsense.
  Facebook's information on people is no different from a survey. It's just that they have lots and lots and lots of surveys.
  As for information being sold individually...no, I'm not naive. That's an extraordinary claim, which requires extraordinary evidence.
  Do you have any?
  
  --
  If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
156. Re: Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-27 13:34 · Score: 0
  
  Good one, erogenous coward!
157. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by slick7 · 2013-08-27 13:55 · Score: 1
  
  The problem is, how do you know whether the bank even uses that as a metric?
  Better yet, shut them down, put them in jail, confiscate all their personal assets and give it to the poor, hungry, disenfranchised.
  Must have been modded by BANKSTERS.
  
  --
  The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
158. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-27 15:03 · Score: 0
  
  uh no.. it's called having prudence and what this feral culture might call self restraint. I call it just not having a credit card. If I can't afford it, I don't buy it. Simple.
159. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-27 15:23 · Score: 0
  
  Whatever.. I'm glad I don't have to live with that 30 year damocles sword hanging over my head. If that means I don't own a home, so be it...
  Yes, it CAN make you more money, or it can leave you in the shitter just as easily.. Considering today's economy, I'd just assume the latter is more and more likely.
160. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-27 16:05 · Score: 0
  
  then they'll never know if he's a good risk or not, and if he's gotten to 30 without needing credit, then he doesn't really need them either, right?
  While credit did help boom the economy (people bought dishwashers instead of saving for retirement), I think at this point it's destroying it. Time to roll it all back.
161. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-27 16:10 · Score: 0
  
  most times you can't pay car loans right off.. you have to pay the installments and the interest.
162. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-27 16:16 · Score: 0
  
  maybe the problem isn't these people, but the society that insists on considering use-of-credit as a good thing.
163. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Khyber · 2013-08-28 02:38 · Score: 1
  
  You are a complete fucking idiot. You can have a cell phone and not use the cell service. Ever hear of WiFi, dumbass?
  Holy shit you're pretty fucking stupid. I found my MetroPCS phone in a fucking parking lot. And I don't use their service.
  You should just leave slashdot with your incompetence and obviously failing brain.
  
  --
  Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
164. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by marcello_dl · 2013-08-28 08:03 · Score: 1
  
  You join a club quilting club
  They make equipment for pillow fighting?
  Dear fellows, please do not forget about the rules:
  1st RULE: You do not talk about club quilting club.
  2nd RULE: You DO NOT talk about club quilting club.
  3rd RULE: If someone says "stop" or his pillow goes limp, taps out the fight is over.
  
  --
  ---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
165. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Khyber · 2013-08-28 13:43 · Score: 1
  
  Oh, and you're the one that needs to see a professional if you couldn't come up with such a simple fucking thought that 'Oh, maybe he's got the cell phone and isn't using the service.'
  You're a fucking moron. Thinking I make things up. Your sorely lacking education and lacking logic skills are showing bigtime.
  
  --
  Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
166. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-28 14:58 · Score: 0
  
  "Bank of America wishes to be friends with you. Do you accept their request?"
  This is why I have 2 Facebook accounts - my real one and the one I use for employers/banks/parents.
167. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-28 15:49 · Score: 0
  
  Sure about that? One could prolly retaliate by opening fake Facebook accounts in the names of various congresscritters, powerful constituents, and various corporate executives of banking and credit reporting agencies.
  Get it so they are among the "Squed" people; and it will inevitably wake the right folks up to the issue.
168. Re:Kind of a warning sign actually by gmclapp · 2013-08-29 22:39 · Score: 1
  
  Look in your side bar. Do the ads seem oddly catered to your interests?
  
  I know at work I got lots of advertisements for Reid Supply and SMC because I'm an engineer and I go to those sites and make forum posts about those things. At home I get ads from Dick's sporting goods and Dunhams because I post things about hunting and fishing and camping on Facebook. These things don't bother me because I don't care if that sort of information is given/sold to advertisers. But, I also don't put sensitive information on sites like that because I understand what's going to happen to my 'privacy' on the internet.
  
  --
  Common Sense (+1)
Dubious Credit Criteria by MyLongNickName · 2013-08-26 07:50 · Score: 5, Insightful

Dubious credit criteria and validation got us into a huge subprime mortgage mess and contributed to an economic downturn. Fortunately, this method doesn't appear to be widespread, but the same principle applies. Folks haven't learned the lessons of the last 100+ years and seem doomed to repeat the outcomes.

--
See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
1. Re:Dubious Credit Criteria by iluvcapra · 2013-08-26 08:01 · Score: 2
  
  Right but this is a study that tests the Facebook hypothesis, if there's evidence it works why wouldn't you use it?
  
  --
  Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
2. Re:Dubious Credit Criteria by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:09 · Score: 0
  
  It works until you start to relying on it.
  Big Duh for anyone having traded in the markets.
  Captcha: excrete
3. Re:Dubious Credit Criteria by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:10 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  No, the problem was that lenders ignored any criteria. They didn't examine entrails before making a loan. They did nothing. Some (e.g. Countrywide) encouraged people to lie on their applications. These were applications for loans from them. They bundled and sold these loans to hapless buyers thanks to incompetent or negligent rating agencies (e.g. S&P) giving these bundles inflated ratings. That's why they didn't care about your worthiness. Read Michael Lewis's book "The Big Short". In this case somebody may be doing a big data study and finding correlations between these seemingly unrelated activities and you creditworthiness. Now correlation != causation, but businesses rarely bother to distinguish between the two.
4. Re:Dubious Credit Criteria by ShanghaiBill · 2013-08-26 08:10 · Score: 1
  
  Dubious credit criteria and validation got us into a huge subprime mortgage mess
  1. This is not "dubious". It is based on plenty of solid evidence.
  2. The subprime mess was caused (in part) by government pressure to ignore proven credit criteria, along with incentives for banks to not care about the default rate because the risk was borne by quasi-governmental institutions like Fannie Mae, that had an implicit guarantee of a taxpayer bailout.
5. Re:Dubious Credit Criteria by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:13 · Score: 0
  
  Actually, subprime mortgages was nothing at all to do with dubious credit criteria, it was simply being willing to lend far more than the maths (based on valid data) said they should. The norm for the last 100 odd years has been not to lend more than 3-3.5 times income, and to only lend when the borrower has demonstrated that they have a surplus by saving a decent deposit.
  The subprime issue was caused by banks lending 100% mortgages for values 7 times earnings.
6. Re:Dubious Credit Criteria by bondsbw · 2013-08-26 08:22 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Because correlation does not equal causation.
  I will present proof by contradiction. The assumption to be disproven: My friends are all creditworthy if I am creditworthy.
  As a creditworthy person, I have a good job and always repay loans well in advance. I am responsible with my money. This allows me to volunteer where college students and other people who are not as well off frequent.
  In turn, I'm friends with many of them on Facebook. Contradiction!
  
  --
  All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
7. Re:Dubious Credit Criteria by h4rr4r · 2013-08-26 08:25 · Score: 1
  
  Banks like Insurance companies do not care about causation all they care about is correlation. If more than 50% of the people who visit slashdot are bad drivers but good at paying their bills, and they find out you visit slashdot you will get a great rate on a loan and expensive insurance.
8. Re:Dubious Credit Criteria by mrclisdue · 2013-08-26 08:34 · Score: 1
  
  Exactly!
  And I'm an alcoholic chronic bankrupt gambler, and all my dead wives were rich!
9. Re:Dubious Credit Criteria by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:35 · Score: 0
  
  Actuaries do not care about causation. Just probabilities. They don't care about the specifics of you, just the class of you's.
10. Re:Dubious Credit Criteria by bondsbw · 2013-08-26 08:39 · Score: 1
  
  Agreed, but neither party in the example is being helped. Lenders make their money by drawing interest from lending to creditworthy people.
  Take the following criteria:
  A: Applicant always repays loans before due date
  B: Applicants friends on Facebook are all creditworthy
  The math probably shouldn't be "A + B". It should be more like "A ? A : B".
  
  --
  All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
11. Re:Dubious Credit Criteria by sjames · 2013-08-26 08:41 · Score: 1
  
  I haven't seen any evidence that the facebook score is any better than flipping a coin. Certainly TFA presented none (nor did it try, it just reported on what is being used).
  The government in no way shape or form suggested that banks should make loans on McMansions to first time buyers (and certainly never suggested that lenders should hard sell bigger loans). It suggested that redlining is not a valid criterion and that banks should make more loans on starter homes. It did not suggest that building a time bomb into a loan was a good idea. Certainly it didn't encourage S&P to give bogus cheerful ratings to highly dubious new financial instruments.
  The problem was bankers who all figured they were financial wizards and that they could surely pass the hot potato on before the timer ran out.
12. Re:Dubious Credit Criteria by TheCarp · 2013-08-26 09:10 · Score: 1
  
  > Some (e.g. Countrywide) encouraged people to lie on their applications.
  Having bought a house back then, I was under the impression that this was the industry-wide SOP.
  When I bought, we ran into some minor documentation problem relating to documenting our income. I forget the exact issue, but, it wasn't even a matter of us not having the income, it was just a documentation issue. (We had the income, our sale had other issues... like that it maybe shouldn't have ever passed inspection, but some things are hard to prove after the fact.... )
  So the broker explained to us that there was another way, and we could just write a letter stating what our income was, and the bank would then accept it. There were some implications that would have effected the final interest rate or something but, it was an option.
  I had heard there was shady stuff going on but, the very idea that one could just....opt out of documenting their income and state it, and be taken at their word? The implications of that were not at all lost on me. I mean, clearly for someone in my position it was potentially a boon but, what was to stop someone who actually didn't have the income from getting the loan? I wondered....
  well as it turns out, the answer was: nothing at all. This was SOP. There is no reason to allow such declarations at all except.... to originate bunk mortgages....and no reason to originate bunk mortgages except.... to bundle and sell them.
  
  --
  "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
13. Re:Dubious Credit Criteria by AmiMoJo · 2013-08-26 09:25 · Score: 1
  
  Because it's not fair?
  I know, I know. Banks, fair, LOL.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
14. Re:Dubious Credit Criteria by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 09:26 · Score: 0
  
  Agreed, but neither party in the example is being helped. Lenders make their money by drawing interest from lending to creditworthy people.
  Dude, that attitude is just so twentieth century.
  Lenders now make their money by making loans to anything with a pulse and then selling them on to a sucker^H^H^H^Hinvestor who takes all the risk.
15. Re:Dubious Credit Criteria by houghi · 2013-08-26 09:31 · Score: 1
  
  You look at the 100 year mark? That is nice. I have some tulip bulbs that will make you a fortune.
  
  --
  Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
16. Re:Dubious Credit Criteria by mrchaotica · 2013-08-26 09:36 · Score: 0
  
  our sale had other issues... like that it maybe shouldn't have ever passed inspection, but some things are hard to prove after the fact....
  That was your own fault. After all, you were the one who picked out and hired the home inspector, and accompanied him on his inspection.
  
  --
  "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
17. Re:Dubious Credit Criteria by Quirkz · 2013-08-26 09:58 · Score: 1
  
  But correlation *is* correlation, and that's all they care about. Causation doesn't matter here in the least.
  
  --
  The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay
18. Re:Dubious Credit Criteria by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 12:00 · Score: 0
  
  I worked once at a small mortgage office, and SOP was downright horrible. We worked primarily with clients whose English was nonexistent, so we'd routinely forge documents, signatures, and make excuses as to why what they were. I quit after my first week, citing ethical issues.
19. Re:Dubious Credit Criteria by Hognoxious · 2013-08-26 19:57 · Score: 1
  
  The subprime mess was caused (in part) by government pressure to ignore proven credit criteria
  
  Government pressure? Are you referring to the Community Reinvestment Act? If so, kindly explain how the phrase "consistent with the safe and sound operation of such institutions" supports your assertion. It's in Sec 802. But I'm sure you know that because you've actually read it and you aren't just parroting what Rush G. Coulter spouts.
  BTW, since the CRA only applies to residential property, how is it that commercial real estate had a similar (by some reckonings worse) crash?
  
  not care about the default rate because the risk was borne by quasi-governmental institutions like Fannie Mae
  The debts were also bundled up and sold on to private institutions and investors. Securitisation, they call it.
  Now when the originator of the loan gets paid up front and the risk is borne by someone else at some future time it's not rocket science to work out what'll happen. It's the financial equivalent of bathtub gin.
  Hate to rain on your libertarian parade, but you really can't blame teh gubmint for this one. The free market (or individual greed, there's considerable overlap) is the main cause.
  
  --
  Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
20. Re:Dubious Credit Criteria by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 20:11 · Score: 0
  
  So fucking what? If some metric based on your Facebook friends is correlated to your likelihood of paying off a loan, the banks don't give a damn about causation. All they care about is whether they get paid, and correlation is good enough for that.
21. Re:Dubious Credit Criteria by gmclapp · 2013-08-26 22:54 · Score: 1
  
  No more mod points. :(
  
  well said.
  
  --
  Common Sense (+1)
22. Re:Dubious Credit Criteria by gatkinso · 2013-08-27 00:21 · Score: 1
  
  Totally agree - buyer had plenty of opportunity to inspect what he was buying.
  
  --
  I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
23. Re:Dubious Credit Criteria by TheCarp · 2013-08-27 01:57 · Score: 1
  
  Be that as it may, it really has no bearing on this discussion, nor did I really state otherwise.
  However, I do take issue with the idea that a person is solely at fault for having their ignorance taken advantage of, however, I have better things to do than spend much more time on the particulars of that situation, its eaten up enough of my time and money over the years.
  Of course, silly me, at the time, I guess I never should have assumed that the bank doing the financing, and putting in such a huge up front investment (far more than me) with their only guarantee of repayment being the lien on the property....would have insisted on thorough above board inspectors.
  I guess it should have been obvious to me at um 24, while I was still living with a bunch of guys in essentially a frat house, that banks were originating bunk loans and selling them without any care whether the investment was any good or not. Hell, maybe I shouldn't have assumed that since I was buying it with a friend whose father was selling it to us, that we didn't need to worry as much since...aferall...what father would screw over his own son?
  But shit, I never even looked into researching whether I could sue anyone, I just fixed all that out of pocket and bitched that the business was shady, and it was. Because, if it wasn't shady, my assumptions would have been right, and the bank.... who was really the one putting up the bulk of the money, would have been out to make secure investments, not defraud other banks.
  So there, now I have wasted another 10 minutes of my life on remembering a few details of a bad investment. I fully admit, I was negligent, but, I don't think my assumptions were entirely unreasonable or uncommon either. Taking advantage of people's ignorance and assumptions is....shady business.
  I am not even seeking compensation though, I am just calling a spade a spade.
  
  --
  "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
24. Re:Dubious Credit Criteria by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-27 02:16 · Score: 0
  
  Hell you didn't even have to lie to get a loan for some unreasonable amount. When my wife and I were getting qualified for a loan for our mortgage at that time we ended up being qualified for something like 1.5 million dollars. I looked at the loan officer and asked what our monthly payment would be and it was something like 105% of our gross monthly income. I looked at the officer like he was retarded and asked how I could even make one payment since there was no way I could actually afford what I qualified for. Then I made him figure out how much house we could afford for a given monthly payment we could actually afford for that same 30 year mortgage. I was told that we should be buying as much house as we could afford since houses will only go up, they are a great investment, and all the other standard BS lines that were common at that time. Everyone thought my wife and I were stupid for getting house we could still afford if one of us lost our job but now we look we were financial geniuses since the whole system at that point smelled funny even to a casual observer.
25. Re:Dubious Credit Criteria by geekoid · 2013-08-27 09:37 · Score: 1
  
  so? if he isn't a professional home inspector why would he know where the home inspector get it wrong?
  I found out about 2 years ofer I bought my house it shouldn't have been sold due to all kinds of code violations.
  People depend on experts for things, and when the experts turn out to be incompetent, or taking bribes from the Realtors broker, there isn't a way to know whats' going on.
  Also, in many cases the purchaser doesn't pay for or provide the inspector.
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
26. Re:Dubious Credit Criteria by mrchaotica · 2013-08-27 12:27 · Score: 1
  
  Also, in many cases the purchaser doesn't pay for or provide the inspector.
  Here's the thing: in all cases the purchaser should pay for an inspection done by an inspector of his own choosing. Why? Because the "inspection" the bank requires is designed to protect the bank, not the buyer. If you want someone whose obligation is protect you, the buyer then you have to choose and pay for him yourself. The bank inspection is completely irrelevant.
  The reason I have limited sympathy is that this is part of home-buying 101: all you have to do is watch an hour or so of HGTV, google "how to buy a house," or talk to a competent realtor for a few minutes and you'll know it.
  Admittedly, I learned the hard way that if you buy a house with large trees on the property you should also get an arborist to do a tree inspection, but that's a different story (and something that realtors and HGTV probably won't teach you).
  
  --
  "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
27. Re:Dubious Credit Criteria by mrchaotica · 2013-08-27 13:05 · Score: 1
  
  However, I do take issue with the idea that a person is solely at fault for having their ignorance taken advantage of...
  
  Of course, silly me, at the time, I guess I never should have assumed that the bank doing the financing, and putting in such a huge up front investment (far more than me) with their only guarantee of repayment being the lien on the property....would have insisted on thorough above board inspectors.
  
  I guess it should have been obvious to me at um 24...
  The reason I have limited sympathy is that if you're that ignorant, you have no business buying a house to begin with. You're supposed to understand that the bank's inspector works for the bank, not you, so if you want someone to look out for your interests you have to hire him yourself. This is home-buying 101: an hour of HGTV, a few minutes googling "how to buy a house" or a short chat with a competent realtor should have explained it to you. (And if you had decided to try to sue, by the way, the judge would have explained it to you as he laughed you out of court).
  I mean, yeah, people walk into Best Buy and grab a computer without knowing what they're doing, and people throw themselves upon the "tender mercy" of sleezebag car salesmen without doing their research -- but come on, they're stupid. Based on the typical demographic that Slashdot attracts, the mere fact that you're here suggests to me that you ought be smart enough to know better (not to mention, analytically-minded enough to want to optimize your experience).
  And it's not that you're supposed to know how to inspect the house yourself, either. You're just supposed to hire someone decent, the same way you hire any other service professional: you look for licensing, trade organization (in this case, ASHI) membership, recommendations from friends, good online reviews, etc. You don't go to the inspection with him so you can check up on his work, you go with him so that he can point out the issues in person and answer your questions in a way that you, as a layman, can understand. (And then he'll give you a detailed and thorough written report with a whole bunch of pictures anyway, which you will then use to negotiate seller concessions for all the problems he found.)
  For what it's worth, I bought my house at age 25 -- and I assure you, I was no more mature than you -- but I knew these things.
  You at least knew to use a buyer's agent instead of allowing the seller's agent to have "dual agency" (which is a conflict of interest) and you knew to buy your own title insurance (because the bank's title insurance doesn't protect you), I hope?
  
  --
  "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
28. Re:Dubious Credit Criteria by TheCarp · 2013-08-28 02:48 · Score: 1
  
  > The reason I have limited sympathy is that if you're that ignorant, you have no business buying a
  > house to begin with
  If you are ignorant, how do accurately judge your competence?
  What I especially don't see is the point of this entire tangent. Its not relevant to the discussion and serves only to re-iterate lessons that I already learned.
  Do you really think a sarcastic comment would drive the point home better than the 30 grand I went out of pocket underpinning the house foundation and having all of the oil soaked soil removed?
  Does my failure to protect myself really excuse taking advantage of the situation by the people who did know better and did this professionally? I think they really are separate issues....which is why I was trying to just leave it at an offhand remark rather than going into the woods.
  Yes I should have protected myself better up front. I realized that years ago. You have not informed me of a single thing I didn't already learn the hard and expensive way.
  
  --
  "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
Facebook is the most expensive free service ever by JoeyRox · 2013-08-26 07:52 · Score: 5, Insightful

The personal and privacy costs of being a Facebook user are very high and increasing daily. No thanks.
WHAT?! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 07:52 · Score: 5, Funny

HOW DOES I GET CREDIT CARD?
1. Re:WHAT?! by Chrisq · 2013-08-26 08:03 · Score: 1
  
  LOL, I GET ONE AND SPEND
2. Re:WHAT?! by CanHasDIY · 2013-08-26 08:42 · Score: 1
  
  Silk Road, duh.
  Where else would you get one?
  
  --
  An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
3. Re:WHAT?! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:57 · Score: 0
  
  the same whay you get your ebt card
4. Re:WHAT?! by 1729 · 2013-08-26 09:39 · Score: 1
  
  Here you go:
  https://twitter.com/NeedADebitCard
  Take your pick.
5. Re:WHAT?! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-27 01:57 · Score: 0
  
  Do 160 credits in a well graded university. Only engineering, economics and cs degrees apply.
Darwinism at it's finest by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 07:55 · Score: 1

Don't want to deal with a company who rates my credit based on my acquaintances, whose financial situation I'm not aware of. Happy for them to take themselves out of the picture.
I think the wider story here is by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · 2013-08-26 07:55 · Score: 5, Insightful

How using Facebook at all can bring harm to you in real life.
Case in point: a colleague's teenage daughter applied for a summer job at the local supermarket, got selected and went to a job interview. The interviewer asked her to "describe herself". She did, and the interviewer then said "that's not what your Facebook says. Thank you, we'll call you." She's only 16 and she wasn't doing anything particularly public or outrageous on Facebook. It hit her hard and my colleague says she's been kind of depressed by the rejection she's faced.
As for me, I've learned the hard way 13 years ago (before Facebook but after Google) that the internet never forgets, and whatever you say will come back to haunt you eventually. As a result, I've learned to shut my trap online whenever possible.

--
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
1. Re:I think the wider story here is by berashith · 2013-08-26 07:58 · Score: 2
  
  you may want to stop using your real name, Rosco. The first step to secrecy is a pseudo-anonymous presence on forums.
2. Re:I think the wider story here is by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:00 · Score: 0
  
  Are you still talking ?
3. Re:I think the wider story here is by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:00 · Score: 0
  
  Here is a simple solution, suspend your fb account when you are looking for jobs.
4. Re:I think the wider story here is by transporter_ii · 2013-08-26 08:04 · Score: 1
  
  The bigger question is, when is opting out not going to be an option? At what point is not having a facebook account going to be against the law? At one time, I would have said that was insane...but it's getting pretty damn nutso around here these days.
  
  --
  Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, religion destroys spirituality
5. Re:I think the wider story here is by transporter_ii · 2013-08-26 08:05 · Score: 1
  
  The new government required online IDs will take care of that for us...
  
  --
  Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, religion destroys spirituality
6. Re:I think the wider story here is by the_humeister · 2013-08-26 08:05 · Score: 1
  
  That's why i use my name in a different language. I'd post it here, but unicode support is non-existant on this site (as is IPv6 support, but that's for another post).
7. Re:I think the wider story here is by SirGarlon · 2013-08-26 08:06 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Rosco P. Coltrane is a fictional character.
  
  --
  [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
8. Re:I think the wider story here is by cdrudge · 2013-08-26 08:07 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  She should look on the bright side. She would not have enjoyed working in an environment that stalks her Facebook profile and makes snap judgements without explanations. This is especially true for a PT job at a supermarket.
9. Re:I think the wider story here is by c0d3g33k · 2013-08-26 08:10 · Score: 1
  
  I suspect berashith knows that, and was engaging in humor too subtle for you, SirGarlon.
10. Re:I think the wider story here is by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:15 · Score: 0
  
  The one tried and true solution is to just say no to Facebook and 'social media' in general.
11. Re:I think the wider story here is by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:17 · Score: 1
  
  I had this happen as well. Friend of mine took a pic of me browsing a humidor.
  A week later, my health ins company called, demanded I take a physical and blood test, or else have my status changed from non-smoker to smoker.
12. Re:I think the wider story here is by SirGarlon · 2013-08-26 08:17 · Score: 1
  
  That crossed my mind, but to understand why that is funny requires you to know who the character is, doesn't it? I thought I'd throw in a link for the benefit of people not familiar with 1980's American television programs.
  
  --
  [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
13. Re:I think the wider story here is by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:18 · Score: 0
  
  Proper response to the interviewer should have been "why are you stalking 16 year old girls on Facebook?"
14. Re:I think the wider story here is by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:20 · Score: 0
  
  Case in point: a colleague's teenage daughter applied for a summer job at the local supermarket, got selected and went to a job interview. The interviewer asked her to "describe herself". She did, and the interviewer then said "that's not what your Facebook says. Thank you, we'll call you." She's only 16 and she wasn't doing anything particularly public or outrageous on Facebook. It hit her hard and my colleague says she's been kind of depressed by the rejection she's faced.
  
  So what you're saying is that Facebook hosed her because she's a little liar either on the interview or on Facebook? Ok. I get a clear picture now of what kind of person she is. Serves her right, IMHO.
15. Re:I think the wider story here is by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:21 · Score: 0
  
  I suspect SirGarlon knew that, but went along with the meme engaging in humor too subtle for you, c0d3g33k.
  Its turtles all the way down!
16. Re:I think the wider story here is by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:22 · Score: 0
  
  That is true. It was merely cute before. Now it is hilarious.
17. Re:I think the wider story here is by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:29 · Score: 0
  
  But sometimes you need the money or experience.
18. Re:I think the wider story here is by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:29 · Score: 0
  
  Honestly, they could've stated that with 99% certainty without having ever looked at her Facebook page. They could've replaced "Facebook" with "mother" and still been just as accurate.
  Why? People have this annoying tendency to lie on applications. It's the sort of thing that makes it irritating being honest, because all the HR drones assume I'm overstating things and bluffing. Most of the time, that assumption works, but it's very irritating when HR tries to call a bluff that wasn't one, as your friend's daughter has learned.
  After a line like what the interviewer used, there are two reasonable answers:
  1) Really, and what part of my Facebook profile contradicts anything I said?
  or
  2) Don't. After that admission, if I hear from you again I will file a restraining order.
19. Re:I think the wider story here is by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:59 · Score: 1
  
  Your colleague would be well seated to ask what a grocery store manager was doing looking at his 16 year old daughter's Facebook. If he isn't outraged I am outraged for him.
20. Re:I think the wider story here is by gatkinso · 2013-08-26 09:15 · Score: 1
  
  Here is a simple solution, suspend your fb account.
  Fixed that for you.
  
  --
  I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
21. Re:I think the wider story here is by Thud457 · 2013-08-26 09:42 · Score: 1
  
  A man with two watches is never sure what time it is.
  
  --
  the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
22. Re:I think the wider story here is by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 11:39 · Score: 0
  
  Proper response to the interviewer should have been "why are you stalking 16 year old girls on Facebook?"
  I do appreciate that in your head the manager responds by getting flustered as he's unable to respond to why he's engaging in creepy behaviour like that and the vague insinuation that he's a pedo.
  In reality, it would be pointed out that she had applied for a job with the company, and it was standard policy to carry out such background checks. (*) Further, depending on how sarcastic the manager felt, he might point out that- yes- he'd had that same 16-year-old in his office and asked her some borderline personal questions... this being what is known as a "job interview", and maybe sir was familiar with the concept?
  (*) For what it's worth, I strongly disagree with personal prying like this into people's personal lives- but it doesn't change the fact that it *was* quite obviously a background check and not some random 16-year-old getting stalked.
23. Re:I think the wider story here is by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 13:45 · Score: 0
  
  The supermarket sure had balls saying that to her. They should have just left it at "we reviewed your application and we don't think you're the right fit".
24. Re:I think the wider story here is by bickerdyke · 2013-08-26 20:58 · Score: 1
  
  Collecting public information in preperation for a job interview.
  i didn't know that browsing to public webpages is a crime outside of China, too.
  
  --
  bickerdyke
25. Re:I think the wider story here is by geekoid · 2013-08-27 09:45 · Score: 1
  
  She should get a lawyer.
  You can not use gender, beliefs, sexual preference and so on. Looking at facebook they took that into account.
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
26. Re:I think the wider story here is by geekoid · 2013-08-27 09:46 · Score: 1
  
  A man with one watch is sure of the time no matter how wrong is watch is.
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
27. Re:I think the wider story here is by geekoid · 2013-08-27 09:48 · Score: 1
  
  "Collecting public information in preparation for a job interview."
  which is , in many states, illegal and opens the up to lawsuits in all of the states.
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
28. Re:I think the wider story here is by Hognoxious · 2013-08-28 20:57 · Score: 1
  
  Anyone who thinks stuff on facebook is true is an idiot. At least, that's what wikipedia says.
  
  --
  Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
29. Re:I think the wider story here is by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-28 21:01 · Score: 0
  
  [citation needed]
Easy solution by stewsters · 2013-08-26 07:56 · Score: 3, Funny

This is why I friend corporations. It balances out the financial status of my real friends.
1. Re:Easy solution by flitty · 2013-08-26 09:09 · Score: 1
  
  What does it say that I'm still trying to figure out who has the good financial status in that scenario?
  
  --
  Whether or not there is some sort of god, I'm not supposed to say/god is a word and the argument ends there-Smog
2. Re:Easy solution by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 15:22 · Score: 0
  
  According to Bush, Corporations are people too. Therefore, corporations ARE your friends.
  I think I'll take Xerox out for a beer; you coming?
If you don't have facebook account... by sinij · 2013-08-26 07:57 · Score: 5, Funny

If you don't have Facebook account, banks conclude you are a sociopath and offer you CEO job.
1. Re:If you don't have facebook account... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 09:23 · Score: 0
  
  If you don't have Facebook account, banks conclude you are a sociopath and offer you CEO job.
  Only if you have a LinkedIn account.
2. Re:If you don't have facebook account... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 10:04 · Score: 0
  
  Hopefully a highly functional sociopath.
3. Re:If you don't have facebook account... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-27 01:53 · Score: 0
  
  But them you don't have the Mark of the Beast and can't trade at all. You become a impotent CEO, a fate which horribly reveals itself to you as you are bribed with blow and hookers.
Non-facebook users? by Conspiracy_Of_Doves · 2013-08-26 07:57 · Score: 1

What if you're not on facebook at all?

--

Technoli
1. Re:Non-facebook users? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:17 · Score: 0
  
  It's obvious. Your an antisocial luddite, probably related to the likes of someone such as either Ted Kacynski or Timothy McVeigh. What have you been doing lately? Perhaps the authorities should give you a visit, determine if you have any books lying around or related writings indicating a troubled mind with the potential to be a danger to others.
Against TOS by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 07:58 · Score: 0

> A third lender requires that small business borrowers grant them access to the borrowers' PayPal, eBay and other online payment accounts
Which is undoubtedly against those site's TOS. I hope the lenders enjoy being charged with computer trespass. OH WAIT, I forgot that laws don't apply to financial institutions!
The devil, as always, is in the details by LNO · 2013-08-26 07:58 · Score: 5, Informative

The summary leaves out that the companies described aren't the major financial institutions in the US. The one who checks to see if you're friends with someone who defaulted on a loan from the same lender? Lenddo, which makes loans in the Phillippes, Colombia, and Mexico. The one who LOOKS FOR ALL CAPS? Kreditech in Germany, which uses that and "up to 8,000 data points" when assessing the loan (though I can't argue with that; as someone sitting down with a banker in person and YELLING THAT THEY WANT A LOAN is probably not a reliable borrower).
As for whether lenders should just use FICO, if FICO is available? It's reliable and predictive, and more difficult to game, but in an emerging market where your prospective borrowers don't have FICO history, what do you do to suss out whether a borrower is likely to default or not?
1. Re:The devil, as always, is in the details by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 09:36 · Score: 0
  
  You probably need to check the age of the applicant to determine what's going on with all caps -- after a certain point, they're probably PRINTING IN BLOCK LETTERS instead of yelling.
2. Re:The devil, as always, is in the details by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 09:58 · Score: 0
  
  I use all CAPS when I fill out applications.
  Reason: it helps stupid OCR as well as less gifted people actually read the information; which I assume was the goal.
  Odd that this would be a down point.
  I wonder, does that apply to face to face interviews with loan officers as well? I try to use simple straight forward words to communicate with them; should I roll out my extensive vocabulary (akin to knowing how to print in mixed case).
  I have always strived to explain any topic simply; it works in business and 5 year olds, so why not loan officers?
3. Re:The devil, as always, is in the details by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 10:38 · Score: 0
  
  Also, consider the employment prospects of someone based on how they communicate. Employment is probably the key factor in loan default rates, and communication skills are a good predictor of long-term employability (you can't build a big business on mortgages for baseball players). That all-caps writer? How convincing do you think his or her resume is? The guy with dead-beat friends, will he get a promotion because he also knows the VP of sales? It's reasonable to assume these factors do correlate with default risk.
4. Re:The devil, as always, is in the details by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 13:47 · Score: 0
  
  FICO USES ALL CAPS!
Beware of friends bearing gifts. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 07:59 · Score: 0

Maybe a better name would be Frankinbook.
i call by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 07:59 · Score: 0

BS on this 'article'
Seriously, did you think the NSA was alone? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 07:59 · Score: 0

And you were worried about elected officials looking through your data!!
What's worse than a regulated monopoly?
An UNregulated monopoly.
1. Re:Seriously, did you think the NSA was alone? by stewsters · 2013-08-26 08:09 · Score: 1
  
  "were worried" as in past tense? Now I'm worried that the NSA (or underpaid official who works there) will start selling its profiles on people to corporations that cooperate with data collection. A trade of data as it were.
2. Re:Seriously, did you think the NSA was alone? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:16 · Score: 0
  
  The NSA, the rest of government, and the big banks and credit bureaus together form the oligarchy that rules us.
And it makes sense by PhrostyMcByte · 2013-08-26 07:59 · Score: 1

Creepy? Yes. But also logical.
Looking at friends, I think, would be a great indicator if someone has no credit history, or if they're taking out a large loan and have never done so before. It would be foolish of them to look at your friends if you've got a full history of being responsible with the kind of loan you're asking for -- I can't see them doing this.
And your account logins, OF COURSE THEY WANT THIS. Everyone does, because everyone is fucking evil. I'm totally not surprised. Don't sign up with them.
Affinity Group Lending by iluvcapra · 2013-08-26 07:59 · Score: 5, Interesting

I keep some of my savings at Lending Club, which originally started out as a Facebook-based microlending platform -- the idea was that if you knew the people you were lending to, or at least understood their social graph, that you'd make better lending decisions. They dropped the concept a few years ago, my guess is that it didn't scale and there were practical difficulties. (I could see issues arising from sockpuppetry and slander, among other things...)
They do still loan to individuals, and when you lend you read their application, you can see where they live, their FICO, and what they plan to do with the money. And, guilty as charged, I never lend to people to do their application in ALL CAPS :)

--
Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
1. Re:Affinity Group Lending by sinij · 2013-08-26 08:08 · Score: 1
  
  As much as I despise ALL CAPS posting, I don't think it has anything to do with creditworthiness. You (and lenders in the article) are making financial decisions based on non-financial characteristics.
  
  For example, I don't like dog owners that don't pick up after their dogs. If I see an application by such person, and they are foolish enough for this to show from reading loan application, I too wouldn't lend them money. Still, this won't have anything to do with their ability to repay the loan.
2. Re:Affinity Group Lending by cdrudge · 2013-08-26 08:17 · Score: 1
  
  And, guilty as charged, I never lend to people to do their application in ALL CAPS
  But the OCR loan application form I filled out said to write in ALL CAP BLOCK LETTERS.
3. Re:Affinity Group Lending by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:21 · Score: 0
  
  As much as I despise ALL CAPS posting, I don't think it has anything to do with creditworthiness. You (and lenders in the article) are making financial decisions based on non-financial characteristics.
  For example, I don't like dog owners that don't pick up after their dogs. If I see an application by such person, and they are foolish enough for this to show from reading loan application, I too wouldn't lend them money. Still, this won't have anything to do with their ability to repay the loan.
  How is that? I think you should. People who leave their dog shit around (outside their yard) are serially short-sighted, selfish, and lazy. Those are not the kind of people who tend to make safe financial decisions at the micro level. There are plenty of proxies for good or bad behavior out there. Whether or not the facebook data is a reliable proxy is yet to be seen, but it is data and wall street lives off of data.
4. Re: Affinity Group Lending by iluvcapra · 2013-08-26 08:23 · Score: 1
  
  " Still, this won't have anything to do with their ability to repay the loan." Sounds like a falsifiable hypothesis to me, it's not self-evidently true, it's something that could be researched.
  
  --
  Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
5. Re:Affinity Group Lending by stdarg · 2013-08-26 08:31 · Score: 2
  
  As much as I despise ALL CAPS posting, I don't think it has anything to do with creditworthiness.
  What if it does?
  
  You (and lenders in the article) are making financial decisions based on non-financial characteristics.
  
  I can think of plenty of non-financial characteristics that could (not always, but in specific circumstances) have huge impact on financial decisions -- age, health, family status, religion, race, gender, education, ancestry, criminal record.
  Some of those are illegal to consider, but of course that doesn't mean they don't have an impact.
  
  For example, I don't like dog owners that don't pick up after their dogs. If I see an application by such person, and they are foolish enough for this to show from reading loan application, I too wouldn't lend them money. Still, this won't have anything to do with their ability to repay the loan.
  What if it does?
  You're underestimating what could be surmised about a person's credit worthiness if more data were available.
6. Re:Affinity Group Lending by LateArthurDent · 2013-08-26 08:56 · Score: 2
  
  As much as I despise ALL CAPS posting, I don't think it has anything to do with creditworthiness. You (and lenders in the article) are making financial decisions based on non-financial characteristics.
  
  I would say it is linked to poor education, which is linked with credit worthiness.
7. Re:Affinity Group Lending by MobyDisk · 2013-08-26 09:31 · Score: 1
  
  Ultimately, time will tell. It will be interesting to see a paper published on this in the future once they have the data to correlate.
8. Re:Affinity Group Lending by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 10:36 · Score: 0
  
  "Now, you take this loan here to Ernie Bishop...You know, that fellow that sits around all day on his brains in his taxi. You know...I happen to know the bank turned down this loan, but he comes here and we're building him a house worth five thousand dollars. Why?"
9. Re:Affinity Group Lending by vux984 · 2013-08-26 10:51 · Score: 1
  
  The trouble with all caps on a loan application, is that a lot of people work with forms, or accounting, or financial systems that DO require all caps.
  The accounting system at one of the companies I work with, is old, and it is policy to all caps everything that goes into it. Its old enough that the search and sort functionality treats upper and lower case as separate. So all the staff are all trained to all-caps it.
  Similarly a lot of forms out there, especially ones that are designed for OCR and have a little box for each character, and often instruct users to fill it out all caps.
  When I went into the bank to renew my mortgage, the staff there filled out all the paperwork for me... all of it in all-caps. Per the bank's policy and training.
  So its not necessarily a sign of poor education, it could also be attributed to familiarity with a common requirement of this particular type of paperwork.
  It would suck to decline someone a loan, simply because they were some low level outsourced clerk working for a bank doing data entry filling in mailed in loan applications all day and knew exactly how they were entered into the computer: In all caps.
  Now if the instructions said, clearly, "Do NOT use all-caps" that would be an entirely different story. :)
10. Re:Affinity Group Lending by CCarrot · 2013-08-26 11:32 · Score: 1
  
  As much as I despise ALL CAPS posting, I don't think it has anything to do with creditworthiness. You (and lenders in the article) are making financial decisions based on non-financial characteristics.
  I would say it is linked to poor education, which is linked with credit worthiness.
  What, you mean all those cute kittens wanting cheeseburgers aren't educated? Oh...wait...that would also explain the atrocious spelling!
  Sir, I think you may be on to something here...
  
  --
  "I love animals! Some are cute, others are tasty, what's not to like?" - Betsy Schroeder, Jeopardy contestant
11. Re:Affinity Group Lending by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 11:53 · Score: 0
  
  I WENT TO TRUMP UNIVERSITY, YOU INSENSITIVE CLOD!
  (damn all caps lameness filter has no sense of humor...the quick brown fox jumped over...)
12. Re: Affinity Group Lending by s.petry · 2013-08-26 14:17 · Score: 1
  
  Sounds like a falsifiable hypothesis to me, it's not self-evidently true, it's something that could be researched.
  I'm not sure how viable research would be when there is no way to validate what people claim on social networking sites, with or without all caps. I have seen incredible claims that were probably false, and have seen others that may have been true. *shrug* I personally would not loan money to people based on "friends" in a real world unless they were cosigning the loan. In a virtual world it would make less sense.
  
  --
  -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
13. Re:Affinity Group Lending by uvajed_ekil · 2013-08-26 14:59 · Score: 1
  
  This is kind of idiotic if used for anything larger than microlending. CAPS for general communication is dumb, but when filling in blanks on a form it shouldn't matter. I guarantee that at least three quarters of the snail mail I receive includes improper and unnecessary use of CAPS, especially but not exclusively in the address fields of envelopes. If you are that picky, why stop there? You should try to avoid an long-hairs, people with hidden tattoos (gotta look closely to be sure), fatties, immigrants, Democrats, brown people, folks who attend NASCAR races in person, youngins under 50, and divorcees too, since they're obviously more likely to be deadbeats.
  
  Ideas like that are interesting, and you are right that they don't scale well. That is because at larger scales they don't adhere to laws enacted to protect minorities.
  
  --
  This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
14. Re:Affinity Group Lending by knorthern+knight · 2013-08-26 15:03 · Score: 1
  
  > I can think of plenty of non-financial characteristics that could (not always,
  > but in specific circumstances) have huge impact on financial decisions
  > -- age, health, family status, religion, race, gender, education, ancestry, criminal record.
  > Some of those are illegal to consider, but of course that doesn't > mean they don't have an impact.
  Bingo. Unless you have a sanitized Facebook profile bordering on fake your friends list is data about you, waiting to be mined...
  * are most of your friends gay? You're more likely than average to be gay
  * are most of your friends members/supporters of Westboro United Church? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church You're more likely than average to be a supporter
  * etc, etc, etc
  Looking through your friends list is a backdoor way of asking many personal questions that can not be legally asked on a loan application or during a job interview.
  
  --
  
  I'm not repeating myself
  I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user
15. Re:Affinity Group Lending by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 21:54 · Score: 0
  
  ALL CAPS means low ability to use computer means low ability to do basic math and abstract thinking means high probability of making bad financial decisions.
Re:Facebook is the most expensive free service eve by bmo · 2013-08-26 07:59 · Score: 2

And you miss the point entirely.
It doesn't matter whether it's Facebook or not. Your average Slashdot karma "score" and "friend," "foe," and "freak" settings could be abused like this.
--
BMO
Another Gimmick by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 07:59 · Score: 0

These people are not writing an academic paper that summarizes the objective results of detached sociological research. This is just another gimmick designed to give the company an edge in acquiring clients. They will claim that it's a lot cheaper than hiring a private investigator to questions friends and relations but will produce similar results.
Re:Facebook is the most expensive free service eve by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:00 · Score: 0

Flip it around: what about when companies are offering discounts to facebook users, subsidized by non-facebook users. The day may well come when the cost of not being a facebook user is too high.
When people ask me to get in touch via facebook, I tell them I'll fax them.
Jerkcity by horm · 2013-08-26 08:01 · Score: 2

Spigot likely has the lowest credit score possible.
Re:Facebook is the most expensive free service eve by cdrudge · 2013-08-26 08:04 · Score: 1

It only costs as much as you pay into it, if that.
Re:Facebook is the most expensive free service eve by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:04 · Score: 0

Sadly not using Facebook will mean you will get a very low credit score, in fact you probably won't even get a job, you creep!
Crayon by pswPhD · 2013-08-26 08:05 · Score: 1

I suppose filling in a loan application form in red crayon is a bad idea? that might explain why I had so many problems...
1. Re:Crayon by sinij · 2013-08-26 08:12 · Score: 1
  
  >>>I suppose filling in a loan application form in red crayon is a bad idea
  
  No, it shows you are creditworthy and responsible parent of at least one kid.
2. Re:Crayon by s.petry · 2013-08-26 14:24 · Score: 1
  
  and a kid smart enough to fill out a credit application to boot!!
  
  --
  -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Uh Oh by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:05 · Score: 1

This seems to be something I do when putting occasional effort into evaluating someone's comment I've read at Slashdot. Syntax, grammar, punctuation, on-topic, etc., not to forget the friends/enemies list at the Users page. Does having something in common with these people mean it's time to hang myself?
Re:Facebook is the most expensive free service eve by Seumas · 2013-08-26 08:06 · Score: 1

Only if you're applying for credit or an account at a financial institution as "bmo".
Re:Facebook is the most expensive free service eve by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:08 · Score: 0

BMO is a financial institution.
And letter case indicates what? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:09 · Score: 1

Just finished reading this article on CNN and saw it here (kudos, Slashdot, for timely and on-topic).
So here's an informal poll for readers: Just what, exactly, does using all caps to fill out a form indicate? I always use upper case letters when filling out paper or online forms. Why? Because an overseas minimum wage call center employee might misread my "l" for an "I" and mess up transcribing my loan application/income taxes/ insurance information/other important application type here.
I think that is an indication of understanding a potential weakness in the application process, not credit-worthiness. What say you?
1. Re: And letter case indicates what? by Eddi3 · 2013-08-26 08:21 · Score: 1
  
  I agree. All uppercase should be fine, but I would agree with TFS that all lowercase is a bad sign.
2. Re:And letter case indicates what? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:40 · Score: 0
  
  I think that's a problem with the fonts you're using or the way you write. We already have solutions for that problem.
3. Re:And letter case indicates what? by 91degrees · 2013-08-26 08:54 · Score: 2
  
  So here's an informal poll for readers: Just what, exactly, does using all caps to fill out a form indicate?
  That you are statistically more likely to default on the loan. They don't care about cause and effect. If someone showed that people with names beginning with T were 17% more likely to repay the loan than people with names beginning with F, and the difference was statistically relevant, then they'd give better rates to the T's than the F's.
this is the dumbest shit ever by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:10 · Score: 0

i don't know the financial situation of most of my friends, but i know i have several thousand percent more money than two of my closest friends and i've never had a late bill in my life. to presume there's a creditworthiness link between friends is completely asinine
Re:Facebook is the most expensive free service eve by DNS-and-BIND · 2013-08-26 08:11 · Score: 1

Even if you're not a facebook user, your friends can still tag you in photos. Facebook will still track you.

--
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
This sort of thing is exactly why... by new+death+barbie · 2013-08-26 08:12 · Score: 1

This sort of thing is exactly why I started my own ANTIsocial network. I'd invite you to join, but hey, antisocial.

--

It's supposed to be completely automatic, but actually you have to press this button.
Re:Facebook is the most expensive free service eve by Seumas · 2013-08-26 08:12 · Score: 2

In that case, can I have a loan, bmo (77928)?
Are we going to regulate the ratings companies? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:13 · Score: 1

First of all, "credit scores" should be banned. The report should just contain whatever info it contains and it should be up to the lender to assess risk.
1. Re:Are we going to regulate the ratings companies? by SecurityGuy · 2013-08-26 08:24 · Score: 1
  
  Not a bad idea, IMO. I recall reading one CRA CEO claiming the scoring algorithm couldn't be reverse engineered. Wait a minute. If it's truly a formula based on my credit history, it should absolutely be able to be reverse engineered. It should fall to simple statistical analysis. If it doesn't, then it isn't what it claims to be.
Re: Facebook is the most expensive free service ev by iluvcapra · 2013-08-26 08:16 · Score: 2

... That is, until it hurts your credit to NOT have a Facebook account. It hurts your credit to not have credit cards, it only stands to reason that, if this sort of information is fruitful, it'll cost you to not provide it.

--
Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
Great quote comes to mind. by Carnivore24 · 2013-08-26 08:17 · Score: 1

"He that lieth down with dogs shall rise up with fleas"
1. Re:Great quote comes to mind. by iggymanz · 2013-08-26 08:28 · Score: 1
  
  History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance. -James Madison
ALL CAPS by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:20 · Score: 0

All caps have a place in filling out forms. I don't get this requirement.
Filling out names, accounts, addresses, please use all caps. There is less chance for a misread and confusion of 1 for l (lowercase L) for I (uppercase i) when you do that.
If there is an report style portion on what you plan to do with the money, use proper capitalization there.
Also this is NOT related to credit score by Sycraft-fu · 2013-08-26 08:21 · Score: 1

At least not as people normally think of it. When you talk about "credit score" what 99.9% of people mean is your FICO score. This is not getting factored in for FICO. Rather this is for people who don't have a normal credit history. If you have a standard credit history with the credit bureaus, a FICO score will be calculated on that and that's the thing lenders will look at. Nobody gives a shit about your Facebook friends if you have a history of paying debts on time.
This is for people who, for whatever reason, don't have a credit score. This is an alternate way to try and evaluate their risk potential. How good an idea is it? I dunno, guess we'll have to see. However this is not something that is just getting added to your credit score, sensationalist headlines to the contrary.
Re:Facebook is the most expensive free service eve by bmo · 2013-08-26 08:25 · Score: 1

Only if you're applying for credit or an account at a financial institution as "bmo".
There are plenty of people who post with their real names here.
There are people who have totally fake profiles on Facebook, in spite of the Facebook TOS/AUP.
But that's totally irrelevant to the point I made. The point is that participation in online discussion is vulnerable to data-mining irrespective of the forum. Ranting about Facebook as if it's somehow more "dangerous" than Slashdot, or any other publicly available site, is myopic.
--
BMO
Facebook and credit rating by SirGarlon · 2013-08-26 08:26 · Score: 1

Not having a Facebook account will likely never be illegal, as such. It's just that failing to provide your Facebook data will be grounds for a lender or an electric company to deny you service. Kind of like Social Security Numbers -- you're not "required" to provide it to a phone company, but the company is free to deny you service if you don't.

--
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
1. Re:Facebook and credit rating by sconeu · 2013-08-26 08:30 · Score: 1
  
  Dear Credit Company,
  As much as I would like to obtain your business, your request that I perform an act that is illegal under the CFAA forces me to decline your potential offer of a loan, and go to your competitor.
  Thank you,
  A. Creditworty Guy.
  
  --
  General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
2. Re:Facebook and credit rating by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 09:02 · Score: 0
  
  Kind of like Social Security Numbers -- you're not "required" to provide it to a phone company.. .
  
  Sadly, The phone company is required to get it from you. All lenders are. And "lender" is defined very, very, very loosely. If you pay your bill at the end of the month, then they are "lending" to you. Ostensibly this is to prevent identity theft, but it actually causes more of it. But I think, it is yet another way to force people to give up their anonymity and submit to constant tracking and monitoring.
  See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Flags_Rule
What if you do not have facebook? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:30 · Score: 0

Serious question here. What if you do not have a Facebook account? Then are you denied credit?. I just never found any use for Facebook. I actually avoid it because it seems to be the "cool" place to go hang out.
I have a linked in which I have used to network with people I worked with or currently work with. I text with family and friends on my phone. I even use email and leave comments on some web sites. I have even tweeted or read tweets. I
1. Re:What if you do not have facebook? by knorthern+knight · 2013-08-26 15:11 · Score: 1
  
  > Serious question here. What if you do not have a Facebook account?
  It indicates that you are NOT a dumb fuck... http://gawker.com/5636765/facebook-ceo-admits-to-calling-users-dumb-fucks That should be a plus for you.
  
  --
  
  I'm not repeating myself
  I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user
Re:Facebook is the most expensive free service eve by Seumas · 2013-08-26 08:34 · Score: 1

Yes. I'm one of them, here. But my point is that it is less likely to be a contributing factor from Slashdot.
That said, I'm not sure what use any of the connections are, when most of the people in someone's circle on a social work are not representative of people they choose to have part of their actual real-life circle. Almost all the people on any social network I use are a couple professional colleagues and random people I don't actually know at all. I don't even add my family to any of my social networks.
The real danger of all this is when people start posting defamatory things about an individual online or even starts posing as them online. Now it isn't even your supposed social-graph determining your credibility, but trolls.
Let's see... by TheSpoom · 2013-08-26 08:38 · Score: 2

One company determines if you are friends with someone who was late paying back a loan; if so, that is bad news for you. It is even worse news if the delinquent friend is someone you frequently interact with.
Reasonable but evil. I would not do business with this company.

Another company gathers information from the manner in which a customer fills out the online loan application. The chances of getting a loan improve if you spend time reading information about the loan on their website. Conversely, if you fill out the application typing in all-caps (or with no caps), you are knocked down a couple pegs in that company's eyes.
Reasonable and not evil. Understanding the terms of a loan typically means you're going to make at least a good faith effort to fulfill your obligations. I would probably do something like this myself.

A third lender requires that small business borrowers grant them access to the borrowers' PayPal, eBay and other online payment accounts (what could possibly go wrong with that?), thereby disclosing real-time sales and delivery information.
Unreasonable, evil, AND the potential to steal money from everyone who has applied for a loan! Is that you, Enron?

--
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
MS-DOS DISCRIMINATION CONTINUES by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:38 · Score: 0

WILL IT NEVER END?
Re:Facebook is the most expensive free service eve by CanHasDIY · 2013-08-26 08:41 · Score: 1

Only if you're applying for credit or an account at a financial institution as "bmo".
Riiiiiiight... because the government and massive corporate interests never ever abuse panoptic surveillance and collude to single out individuals for a good solid buggering...
and before you go all, 'dur, NSA + GCSB != private corporate interests,' try to keep in mind that the assault on Dotcom's privacy all began with the MPAA alleging that he was involved in copyright infringement.

--
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
TYLER DURDEN, WHY HAS THOU FORSAKEN US?!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:46 · Score: 0

n/t
I JUST YELL BECAUSE I NEED THE MONEY by msobkow · 2013-08-26 08:47 · Score: 1

:P

--
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Re:Kind of an illiterate wog actually by Hognoxious · 2013-08-26 08:48 · Score: 1

The computing is so cheap that they can't even afford a [shift] key.

--
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Credit Scores = Privately Run Court System by dkleinsc · 2013-08-26 08:50 · Score: 1

Basically, it's 3 companies that can arbitrarily decide your worth as a human being. They can use just about any method they feel like using, don't have to explain how they got to the conclusion they got to, and the information can be used by almost any company to decide everything from where you can live to what jobs you can have and what prices you have to pay.
So yeah, that number is steadily turning into much more than what interest rate you'll pay when taking out a loan.

--
I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
1. Re:Credit Scores = Privately Run Court System by geek · 2013-08-26 09:52 · Score: 1
  
  They can use just about any method they feel like using, don't have to explain how they got to the conclusion they got to,
  Wrong, they have to explain to the people they are selling the scores too. If they are delivering innacurate scores then their service is worthless and the loan agencies have no reason to use them.
  They are highly motivated, financially, to be right in their judgements of peoples credit. You make it sound likes it 3 fat guys in suits arbitrarily assigning scores to people "because they feel like it"
  You sound really freaking clueless on the subject honestly.
irresponsible people are irresponsible by raymorris · 2013-08-26 08:51 · Score: 1

If you're lacking better data points, like actual credit history, I think it's perfectly reasonable to consider, as one small factor, whether or not they are responsible people. Generally, those who can be trusted in the small things can be trusted in the big things and those can't, can't. Generally.
1. Re:irresponsible people are irresponsible by sinij · 2013-08-26 10:46 · Score: 1
  
  You can't generalize this much and you are not lacking better data points - what bank lends money out without knowing credit history?
  
  Irresponsible is in the eye of the beholder. It might be irresponsible to speed, it might be irresponsible to not regularly mow your lawn, it might be irresponsible to not call your mother regularly, but these "irresponsibilities" have nothing to do with your ability to repay a loan.
Apostasy from Daisy Duke! How sad. by Thud457 · 2013-08-26 08:53 · Score: 1

kids graduating high school^W^W university are too young to have watched the Dukes of Hazzard.

--
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
To get rid of mountains of debt... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 08:53 · Score: 0

To save the world of mountains of debt and desroy the banking cartel at teh same time. All write:
I DONT WANT NO STINKING CREDIT
Problem solved.
Re:Facebook is the most expensive free service eve by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 09:00 · Score: 0

Your average Slashdot karma "score" and "friend," "foe," and "freak" settings could be abused like this.
You think? Let's test this out... hey everybody, mod this guy down and see if he can take out a loan next week!
economics + business + social == loss of trust by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 09:04 · Score: 0

Why is it we keep seeing these banks and business data mining all this information?
If it's to reduce their risk, then it's also saying they don't want to trust you. And here we see a degradation of trust.... you can only trust someone if they have the faith to put their trust into you.
"Deal with it." Seriously? by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · 2013-08-26 09:15 · Score: 5, Insightful

You are judged by the company you keep. Deal with it.
If we had just "dealt with it" every time those with power abused their position, black people would still be slaves, women would still not have the vote, children would still be down in the mines, and manual labourers would still barely earn enough wages to live while working crazy hours under conditions that would seriously damage their health.
We have a long way to go, even in the first world, in terms of respecting each other as human beings. We aren't going to get much further if we adopt your attitude every time essential services that make society work start taking advantage of asymmetric power relationships with the ultimate goal of making more money no matter what.

--
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
1. Re:"Deal with it." Seriously? by bdwebb · 2013-08-26 11:05 · Score: 1
  
  If we had just "dealt with it" every time those with power abused their position, black people would still be slaves, women would still not have the vote, children would still be down in the mines, and manual labourers would still barely earn enough wages to live while working crazy hours under conditions that would seriously damage their health.
  Ahh the good ole days!
  
  Seriously, though, I couldn't agree more with this:
  
  We aren't going to get much further if we adopt your attitude every time essential services that make society work start taking advantage of asymmetric power relationships with the ultimate goal of making more money no matter what.
2. Re:"Deal with it." Seriously? by Travelsonic · 2013-08-27 03:07 · Score: 1
  
  Actually, posting opiniions, creating outcry is "deal[ing] with it" technically, it's just too many illiterate wankers are [mis]using the phrase.
  
  --
  If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
HA HA by strikeleader · 2013-08-26 09:18 · Score: 0

Just another reason not to use Facebook
Re:Facebook is the most expensive free service eve by Ralph+Wiggam · 2013-08-26 09:18 · Score: 1

"When people ask me to get in touch via facebook, I tell them I'll fax them."
You're so edgy and unique.
Just wait till it expands... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 09:28 · Score: 0

To all your online ids. All your mail accounts. ALL the people you ever contact online more than once. Everything you have EVER said or done. Anywhere!
And people here look down on us anonymous cowards....
Yeah. Logging into accounts on every site... How's that working out for everyone NOW?
Just because you're not paranoid. Does not mean they're not out to get you.
Well, I'm Fucked by Overzeetop · 2013-08-26 09:28 · Score: 1

I use facebook for my hobby-time friends, which for me means a lot of actors and singers - many of whom are marginally or underemployed. Oh well, I've got points to give, I guess.

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Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Re:Facebook is the most expensive free service eve by bmo · 2013-08-26 09:29 · Score: 1

That said, I'm not sure what use any of the connections are, when most of the people in someone's circle on a social work are not representative of people they choose to have part of their actual real-life circle.
This is the most important thing about why using social media "friends" networks to somehow divine whether one is a good credit risk, good at a job, or /anything/ is just dumb and frankly nonsensical, and this is why this whole "online identity==offline identity" business offends me and should offend everyone here.
Whether it's Facebook or some other social media (even going back to the Dialup BBS days - plus Ãa change, plus c'est la mÃme chose ) doesn't matter. The whole concept is flawed.
Now it isn't even your supposed social-graph determining your credibility, but trolls.
Synchronicitous radio:
The real trolls file fake liens (story on NPR right now - All Things Considered).
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BMO
Re:Facebook is the most expensive free service eve by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 09:39 · Score: 0

But if you're not a facebook user, how can you have any friends?
probably like the sup manager in Shameless... by Thud457 · 2013-08-26 09:40 · Score: 1

nobody needs that kind of experience.

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the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Re:Facebook is the most expensive free service eve by bmo · 2013-08-26 09:45 · Score: 1

>french quote
>slashdot butchers anything not ASCII because no Unicode
Fucking slashdot.
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BMO
Re:Facebook is the most expensive free service eve by danomac · 2013-08-26 09:47 · Score: 1

Sure, just go to branch 77928 and apply.
Re:Facebook is the most expensive free service eve by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 09:48 · Score: 0

And what about all the pictures, quotes, comments, and discussions you're involved in on Facebook? These can and will be done regardless of whether or not you have a Facebook account and everything is tracked.
You're in the system whether you like it or not.
more lazy SOBs by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 09:52 · Score: 0

Sounds like yet another bunch of lazy workers trying to get out of doing real work. Look someone up on Facebook instead of a real investigation.
No doubt they will also decline to specify when people of perfect credit scores are turned down because they have a mess of a facebook page.
Just wait government handsitters will start making their non-decisions the same way.
Yes, deal with it. by mozumder · 2013-08-26 10:05 · Score: 0

We aren't going to get much further if we adopt your attitude every time essential services that make society work start taking advantage of asymmetric power relationships with the ultimate goal of making more money no matter what.
Credit scores are completely nonessential. You can go through life entirely without having to deal with it - just don't take any loans, don't apply for jobs that need it, don't move into housing that checks it, and so on. There are plenty of choices in all those areas that don't need credit checks.
Remember, it is their game, and their rules, that you're complaining about, not yours. You don't have to play at all, and many people don't and are just fine.
Seriously, just stop wanting what other people have, that's really all there is to it.
1. Re:Yes, deal with it. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 10:55 · Score: 0
  
  "Owning the land on which you live is simply a privilege reserved for your betters. Make peace with the fact that even the roof over your head can be taken away by an abusive landlord. You should thank him for deigning to let you live under his precious protection."
Re:Facebook is the most expensive free service eve by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 10:10 · Score: 0

Well, Facebook is run by a 30-ish sociopathic billionaire motherzucker. No thanks is just too polite.
Really by GenevaM.Dixon-Connor · 2013-08-26 10:27 · Score: 1

PSA: If you have bad credit, you cannot be my Facebook friend seeing that it will now effect my future credit ratings. Don't be mad at me, I'm just repeating what the media told me. #crazymedia
Re:Facebook is the most expensive free service eve by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 10:52 · Score: 0

The personal and privacy costs of being a Facebook user are very high and increasing daily. No thanks.
"Not having a Facebook account" is also a piece of information about you. Banks have always considered prospective borrowers with few community ties to be a greater credit risk.
And then what happens next time? by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · 2013-08-26 10:56 · Score: 1

Seriously, just stop wanting what other people have, that's really all there is to it.
And what happens next week, when the health insurance people jump on the bandwagon? Shall we also not worry about not being able to get healthcare at affordable prices because a disproportionate number of our Facebook friends smoke/drink/sleep around/enjoy high risk sports? After all, you could just die instead of getting treatment, right?
The fact is, modern society often works on the assumption that people can get credit under reasonable conditions. If you want to take a principled stand that credit is unnecessary then you should advocate prohibiting giving credit on commercial terms at all. Of course, if you do it to everyone equally then you'll have to accept the resulting economic collapse as your nation's house prices drop by 75% overnight and a large, useful, skilled section of the labour market becomes mostly unemployable.
Or we could do the sensible thing, by allowing commercial credit arrangements but regulating them to prevent lenders from abusing their disproportionate power such that some borrowers suffer unfairly. As with any other essential industry that gets regulated, the price of playing the game becomes having to play by fair rules.

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If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
1. Re:And then what happens next time? by KGIII · 2013-08-26 18:46 · Score: 1
  
  Yay! More laws! Government will protect you!
  Perhaps you should take the "brave" out of your username.
  
  --
  "So long and thanks for all the fish."
2. Re:And then what happens next time? by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · 2013-08-26 20:13 · Score: 1
  
  Yay! More laws! Government will protect you!
  Well, yes. Levelling the playing field is exactly what government and laws are supposed to do, when there is one party so much more powerful than another that the weaker one can't reasonably protect themselves. What else did you think governments were good for?
  (OK, they also play a useful role in standardisation and co-ordination. But when you think about it, almost everything valuable that governments do ultimately comes down to helping people interact fairly and efficiently.)
  
  Perhaps you should take the "brave" out of your username.
  Why, because I don't feel like living in coastal Somalia?
  
  --
  If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
You'll be sorry by PopeRatzo · 2013-08-26 11:01 · Score: 1

Nobody should use their real name on Facebook.
The Internet has been spoiled. We're due for the next platform soon. I'm glad I got to see what it was like during the early years, before the corporate and government takeover.
It didn't have to go like this, but we were so excited about the possibility of making money that we let the place go to shit, and we let the parts of greatest value get destroyed.

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You are welcome on my lawn.
Makes some sense because... by anyaristow · 2013-08-26 11:08 · Score: 1

...what's considered normal in your social circles is contagious. Just like fat friends can make you fat. If your friends are poor managers of their money then you don't feel so bad about being a poor manager of your own money.
didn't read anything I see by raymorris · 2013-08-26 11:11 · Score: 1

> you are not lacking better data points - what bank lends money out without knowing credit history?
The ones in TFA. That's been mentioned about a dozen times in the comments also, btw.
Getting a bunch of speeding tickets doesn't affect your ability to pay your bills? Either part of your paycheck goes to pay the tickets, or you EVENTUALLY go to jail, which again makes it harder to pay your bills.
Along with the ability to pay the bills there's whether or not you will be responsible enough to actually do so. That ends up coming down to whether you do what needs to be done, or do whatever you feel like at the moment. People who mow the lawn even when they don't feel like it and go to work even when they don't feel like it might pay their bills even when they don't feel like it.
So yeah , there's actually a good reason nobody wants to loan their money to you.
This is a Business Opportunity by Jah-Wren+Ryel · 2013-08-26 11:20 · Score: 1

If you have a history of keeping your loans in good standing then you can sell your "friendship" on facebook. Charge something like $15/month to be friends with people who are applying for a loan.

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When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Underwriting - get used to it by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 11:34 · Score: 0

This is called underwriting. It is what makes the insurance, banking, and credit world go round. As 'big data' gets better and better, stories like this will become more and more commonplace. For better or worse, it's best that everyone get used to it and accept the fact that better information will result in more accurate pricing models.
All-caps is standard to many official documents by ygtai · 2013-08-26 11:35 · Score: 1

Not I like to read all-caps, but it's standard to many formal/official/government documents. Birth certificate, DL, etc etc. Standard USPS address format is all-caps. Even the name on credit cards is all-caps. During loan application they often ask one to put exactly the same info on your formal documents. Oh maybe they're saying they themselves are credit worthless, which is true to some extent...
Re:Apostasy from Daisy Duke! How sad. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 12:24 · Score: 0

kids graduating high school^W^W university are too young to have watched the Dukes of Hazzard.
If only there were some technology that would allow us to hear the voices and see the faces of the past.
Or screw it, let's just remake the 2005 movie. It's been 8 years, after all.
I have 3000 "friends" oh boy.... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 14:09 · Score: 0

Being that I have a following on FB and my FB account isn't a business page, this bank would have an interesting time figuring out my credit worthiness. I would assume my credit would go down from a perfect score to a mere 400 because a lot of them are kids. It's list posting a video on youtube and saying your credit will be judged by those that comments. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT. I'd switch banks in an instant and if I couldn't find a bank that would judge based on MY life choices, then I'd have to say fawk yuu bank and stick with a credit union or not have anything at all. If that were made illegal (which wouldn't surprise me at the direction this country is heading) then I would create my own bank with blackjack and hookers. In fact, forget the blackjack. Ah, screw the whole thing.
ALL CAPS by PAjamian · 2013-08-26 14:12 · Score: 1

There is a major difference between chat, email, etc in ALL CAPS and filling out a form in ALL CAPS. I often times fill out forms in all caps due to the fact that many are scanned and OCR tends to work better with caps than lowercase letters. This is especially true for hand-filled forms. In fact I have filled out forms that *explicitly ask* you to use all caps when filling them in.

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Windows is a bonfire, Linux is the sun. Linux only looks smaller if you lack perspective.
Illegal practice in Ohio? by uvajed_ekil · 2013-08-26 14:46 · Score: 1

I did not RTFA, but this sounds like some of the practices mentioned could possibly be illegal in Ohio. Ohio law requires that credit histories of individuals be maintained separately. I don't think it would be going too far to argue that considering someone else's history (just because you are Facebook friends) when determining credit worthiness runs afoul of the law. The law also requires that credit be extended equally to all who are creditworthy and, again, considering the payment history of someone else could be determined to be illegal.

What's next, checking your cupboards to see your choice of breakfast cereal? GrapeNuts or Shredded Wheat (unfrosted)? Approved. Frankenberry AND Fruity Pebbles? Denied. Blacklisting by zip code is considered discriminatory and is already illegal, isn't it? Judging based on the payment history of acquaintances should be as well. Shall we revert to concepts of family honor, too?

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This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
Facebook by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 15:02 · Score: 0

I love stories like this. Yet *another* reason why Im extremely glad I deleted my Facebook account years ago.
moral of story? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-26 15:07 · Score: 0

You can't be friend's with poor people in social media essentially excluding them from hobbies via money is already seen, but forcing to exclude poor ones from your friends lists because its going to fuck your future plans is just cruel....
also considering the job income distribution and availability of jobs actually "worth doing" means lots of people are going to be poor in future in western countries.
THERE GOES THE SCORE by JWSmythe · 2013-08-26 15:25 · Score: 2

WELL, THERE GOES MY CREDIT SCORE.
FUNNY, MANY CREDIT REPORTS ARE WRITTEN IN ALL CAPS. POT. KETTLE.
THE FOURTH AGAINST THE WALL AFTER THE REVOLUTION WILL BE THE CREDIT BUREAU EXECUTIVES. THE FIRST THREE WILL BE MARKETING EXECUTIVES FROM SIRIUS CYBERNETICS CORPORATION, LAWYERS AND POLITICIANS.
Damn. The all caps are hurting my brain.
And it tripped the filters.
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Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted!
Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.

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Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
Fanally by Neil+Boekend · 2013-08-26 19:25 · Score: 3, Informative

A punishment for using caps lock! My prayers have been answered!

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Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
1. Re:Fanally by DirtyLiar · 2013-08-26 21:45 · Score: 1
  
  You beat me to it!
  
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  THINK! It's patriotic
2. Re:Fanally by Neil+Boekend · 2013-08-27 01:54 · Score: 1
  
  Now all we need is a direct punishment for misspellings.
  Preferably active before the "submit" button.
  
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  Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
A lenders wet dream by Kodack · 2013-08-27 01:53 · Score: 1

Bad debtors being ostracized by their friends and family. This sickens me.
One question by Taibhsear · 2013-08-27 03:17 · Score: 1

How do they actually identify you? Typically there's several people with your same name. (And that's assuming you've stupidly used your real name on Facebook.) Even if you have a very unique name, it's not like your credit information has your mugshot on it to compare. Seems like this could be generating an awful lot of false information.
vote where it counts by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-27 05:52 · Score: 0

I am trying to figure out how to put my money where my mouth is on this one. The best I can figure is to not be a depositor in any bank that utilizes this system for determination of lendees, but I am not sure there are any out there that do not used this criteria to rate.
I assume this article means that ALL of the "BIG 3" do this at current?