Obviously, GNOME is not the desktop for you. So why persist in complaining about it. It fills a niche that maybe others might want. GNOME isn't about hacker's desktop, it's about usability for a majority of people. It's not going to work for you because for you, the computer isn't just a tool, it's highly personalized tool.
Outside slashdot, most people just want to do a specific task and want the desktop to get the hell out of the way. Haven't you run into those people who use windows and won't touch a single preference because they dont' care?
Finally, from a software perspective, adding options and bells and whistles ad infinitum is not scalable. As the desktop becomes more and more featurable, you're going to add more and more options that you have to support until it'll end up with a web of options that you have to navigate. No newbie unless he's a masochist is going to try. You're not looking forward. In the end, everyone is going to complain and someone will start a new desktop project to get rid of the 'bloat'. It's a never ending cycle.
The underlying mechanism in your slocate idea and storage I think is the same. You can keep your data in the hierarchical format and storage will still maintain that location. Storage as I understand only keeps track of where the data like how slocate will. It even does the virtual searches. So I'm confused where you're going with this argument.
You might considering helping the storage project. I don't think it has any restrictions on how the data is laid out as far as I know.
Then you might be interested to know about the "Storage" project by original nautilus developer Seth Nickell. This is exactly what he's doing a modified slocate. (also your browser doesn't have slocate built in, unless you're doing it in a shell and then browsing there)
Keep spatial for doing disk management but use storage for saving of files and finding files. It's a lot better model. Again, we're pointing to getting away from clicking around filesystems to using more interesting methods.
Gstreamer can probably handle this kind of thing. For rhythmbox to remember htat kind of tagging might require creating a plugin for that metadata. It's possible to do. it's certainly not unsurmountable.
> filesystems job
It is, but you and I don't scale to hundreds of gigabytes of files and directories to be searching around in it. Even find . -type f -name "artist" -print is going to take awhile on that much data. Yes, if you know what you want then it's going to be alright, but I can do that even with/mp3/artist. I don't need the genre or other metadata. But for complicated stuff, you're going to need management software that has some kind of scalable backend.
In any case, you're not going to be using a browser or spatial software going about it. I have yet to go to either my music collection or my photo collection using browser/spatial because I use management software that scales to do it for me.
Ick./media/music/rock/../? Bleah. I don't do it that way at all. I have basically/mp3/
I use rhythmbox which does all the id3 tag sorting in a database. In fact I use that to create my playlists that I download to my pocket pc or flash memory whatever. Even with a file browser it sounds like a painful way of finding what kind of music you like. Get an application like 'Rhythmbox' or "Muine" that will do the management for you.
Don't use the fileystem for this kind of thing. It's very slow.
yeah, I listen to Magnatune stuff a lot. I finally bought an album after listening to a bunch of albums over and over again that I liked it enough to purchase it. When I did purchase it, I paid more than the recommended price. (well 1 buck over, but hey.:-)
If Magnatune can do it, I'm sure cstream can as well. Plus I gave WAV files which I can convert to anything I want. Definitely you need to do WAV. I want the full quality when I purchase it.
I think you need to back up your statements with some facts. You speak about "unfinished" but do not give an example of what about it makes it unfinished. Basically, I don't think there is anything your message that the GNOME people could take back and say 'yes, we need to fix this'.
The one coherent statement about apps not all using the same features is probably true but thats dependent on maintainers updating their code. Generally, the core apps should all behave the same (which is why they are part of the desktop) while fifth toe and others are developed at a different pace. There is no lock step here.
I'm not sure I completely agree here. Yes, there is a threat of another Unix clone that could mimic the functionality of Linux and it's APIs based on the original AT&T Unix.
But we need to put things into perspective:
1) Linux has an active community around it. That is hard to beat. You still cannot compete against a worldwide bunch of people continually hacking on the kernel wrt Microsoft hacking on it's own kernel. 2) The code is still free, it's still a free product. I believe MS-Linux will cost you bucks and they are still controlled by market forces. Secondly, their attention will be split between their Windows product line and their Linux product lines. SUpporting two OS's and two different versions of Offices? I don't know sounds EXPENSIVE. THink shareholders would go for that? 3) Eventually, you'll fragment the whole Unix market by adding this third challenger. The fight will be who will be the standard. That might be Linux vs MS-Linux. A fight I think Linux will win because of the first point.
Overall, I just don't see how Microsoft can make money from this. You'll be throwing millions of dollars for very little gain. If the gambit fails, Microsoft will only help strengthen Linux's lead. sri
I think everybody understood that to be a problem. With 2.0, there was some major discipline smack handed down about API/ABI changes. Now, things will not change that readily without support for the old API.
GNOME can't just change things anymore like it did in the 1.4. I think you will be pleased in that regard.
What they need is improved backups. I don't give a fig about space if I can't back it up. So maybe someone should be looking at how we're supposed to be backing this stuff or archive this stuff. Or are we supposed to keep a warehouse of EMCs around? I can lay a bit that we are going to need serious backup infrastructure than what we have today to keep up.
The goal is to have free software replace proprietary software. Desktop software is one of the biggest drivers to get ordinary people to move to a Free Software OS. Having more people means we get drivers, more developers and better satisfaction that we are making software for all.
First the exploit compromised one of the largest linux distribution and potentially they could have put trojan horses in all our packages and we would really be up shit river when that happens.
Secondly, we are no longer getting package updates so they have successfully stopped Debian development while they patch all this.
Although it's not in the scale of windows, if GNU/Linux had larger marketshare this would have been a big deal.
The pollution in these countries are mostly caused by 3 wheel vehicles and scooters. These pesky vehicles are everywhere. Luckily, at least the 3 wheeled rickshaws are now converting to natural gas in order to alleviate pollution problems.
But there needs to be more. I believe that accelerating fuel cell technology would drastically reduce a lot of these problems. Provided that an infrastructure can be set up . As of now the whole thing is in limbo. If there was no electricity or no gas or anything, India and China would be able to manage very quickly be reverting back to time honored traditions. The West would be screwed. (Too bad for me, having given my allegiance to U.S.)
As for renewable resources, Asian countries are/were the biggest recyclers. Most of what villages used in those days were all natural. Plaintain leaves were used as plates in the bygone era, and the trash would become compost. These days it's not as good because people are using plastic bags, plates and what not and completely causing problems there. I see at least India slowly relying on industries outside rather than itself. An economic embargo would have resulted in nothing due to self sufficiency. But alas, times change and India has to join the global trade group too bad it's not as an equal partner.
I used to work as an operator at Purdue Computing center. Spent a lot of weekend nights sitting there in that computer room. Most of the time was spent throwing tape write tabs at each other and watching movie (we weren't supposed to but I pretty much broke any rule..)
It's excellent that we are getting the good stuff. When I was there the big deal was rs6000s that had come in.
Hey we can really have some interesting public trials with this stuff. We could even do it just like in the beginning of Superman the Movie when Jor-El was trying those 3 criminals.
"The sentence is...death..death...death..(not that will happen in Europe mind you)":-) sri
Slashdot Mirror
Do you have sources for your allegations?
sri
Obviously, GNOME is not the desktop for you. So why persist in complaining about it. It fills a niche that maybe others might want. GNOME isn't about hacker's desktop, it's about usability for a majority of people. It's not going to work for you because for you, the computer isn't just a tool, it's highly personalized tool.
Outside slashdot, most people just want to do a specific task and want the desktop to get the hell out of the way. Haven't you run into those people who use windows and won't touch a single preference because they dont' care?
Finally, from a software perspective, adding options and bells and whistles ad infinitum is not scalable. As the desktop becomes more and more featurable, you're going to add more and more options that you have to support until it'll end up with a web of options that you have to navigate. No newbie unless he's a masochist is going to try. You're not looking forward. In the end, everyone is going to complain and someone will start a new desktop project to get rid of the 'bloat'. It's a never ending cycle.
sri
Looks like "expert" mode was already exported. ;-)
sri
You just described, Hanuman!! And he is a monkey! :-) I bet Hanuman can KICK Superman's ass any day of the week.
sri
The underlying mechanism in your slocate idea and storage I think is the same. You can keep your data in the hierarchical format and storage will still maintain that location. Storage as I understand only keeps track of where the data like how slocate will. It even does the virtual searches. So I'm confused where you're going with this argument.
You might considering helping the storage project. I don't think it has any restrictions on how the data is laid out as far as I know.
sri
Then you might be interested to know about the "Storage" project by original nautilus developer Seth Nickell. This is exactly what he's doing a modified slocate. (also your browser doesn't have slocate built in, unless you're doing it in a shell and then browsing there)
Keep spatial for doing disk management but use storage for saving of files and finding files. It's a lot better model. Again, we're pointing to getting away from clicking around filesystems to using more interesting methods.
Storage is located at:
http://www.gnome.org/~seth/storage/
sri
re: different kinds of metadata
/mp3/artist. I don't need the genre or other metadata. But for complicated stuff, you're going to need management software that has some kind of scalable backend.
Gstreamer can probably handle this kind of thing. For rhythmbox to remember htat kind of tagging might require creating a plugin for that metadata. It's possible to do. it's certainly not unsurmountable.
> filesystems job
It is, but you and I don't scale to hundreds of gigabytes of files and directories to be searching around in it. Even find . -type f -name "artist" -print is going to take awhile on that much data. Yes, if you know what you want then it's going to be alright, but I can do that even with
In any case, you're not going to be using a browser or spatial software going about it. I have yet to go to either my music collection or my photo collection using browser/spatial because I use management software that scales to do it for me.
sri
The next unstable release of GNOME 2.7/2.8 will have the button.
sri
whoops. I mean I have /mp3/artist/album
and thats about it.
sri
Ick. /media/music/rock/../? Bleah. I don't do it that way at all. I have basically /mp3/
I use rhythmbox which does all the id3 tag sorting in a database. In fact I use that to create my playlists that I download to my pocket pc or flash memory whatever. Even with a file browser it sounds like a painful way of finding what kind of music you like. Get an application like 'Rhythmbox' or "Muine" that will do the management for you.
Don't use the fileystem for this kind of thing. It's very slow.
sri
yeah, I listen to Magnatune stuff a lot. I finally bought an album after listening to a bunch of albums over and over again that I liked it enough to purchase it. When I did purchase it, I paid more than the recommended price. (well 1 buck over, but hey. :-)
If Magnatune can do it, I'm sure cstream can as well. Plus I gave WAV files which I can convert to anything I want. Definitely you need to do WAV. I want the full quality when I purchase it.
I think you need to back up your statements with some facts. You speak about "unfinished" but do not give an example of what about it makes it unfinished. Basically, I don't think there is anything your message that the GNOME people could take back and say 'yes, we need to fix this'.
The one coherent statement about apps not all using the same features is probably true but thats dependent on maintainers updating their code. Generally, the core apps should all behave the same (which is why they are part of the desktop) while fifth toe and others are developed at a different pace. There is no lock step here.
sri
sri
I'm not sure I completely agree here. Yes, there is a threat of another Unix clone that could mimic the functionality of Linux and it's APIs based on the original AT&T Unix.
But we need to put things into perspective:
1) Linux has an active community around it. That is hard to beat. You still cannot compete against a worldwide bunch of people continually hacking on the kernel wrt Microsoft hacking on it's own kernel.
2) The code is still free, it's still a free product. I believe MS-Linux will cost you bucks and they are still controlled by market forces. Secondly, their attention will be split between their Windows product line and their Linux product lines. SUpporting two OS's and two different versions of Offices? I don't know sounds EXPENSIVE. THink shareholders would go for that?
3) Eventually, you'll fragment the whole Unix market by adding this third challenger. The fight will be who will be the standard. That might be Linux vs MS-Linux. A fight I think Linux will win because of the first point.
Overall, I just don't see how Microsoft can make money from this. You'll be throwing millions of dollars for very little gain. If the gambit fails, Microsoft will only help strengthen Linux's lead.
sri
I think everybody understood that to be a problem. With 2.0, there was some major discipline smack handed down about API/ABI changes. Now, things will not change that readily without support for the old API.
GNOME can't just change things anymore like it did in the 1.4. I think you will be pleased in that regard.
sri
The point is that you should be checking out the software not have "Cheers to Jonita". Which makes no sense.
sri
Thats an awful lot of money to come up with a new kind of blender. You know it's those French chefs that are driving all this.
sri
What they need is improved backups. I don't give a fig about space if I can't back it up. So maybe someone should be looking at how we're supposed to be backing this stuff or archive this stuff. Or are we supposed to keep a warehouse of EMCs around? I can lay a bit that we are going to need serious backup infrastructure than what we have today to keep up.
sri
The goal is to have free software replace proprietary software. Desktop software is one of the biggest drivers to get ordinary people to move to a Free Software OS. Having more people means we get drivers, more developers and better satisfaction that we are making software for all.
sri
Um no.
First the exploit compromised one of the largest linux distribution and potentially they could have put trojan horses in all our packages and we would really be up shit river when that happens.
Secondly, we are no longer getting package updates so they have successfully stopped Debian development while they patch all this.
Although it's not in the scale of windows, if GNU/Linux had larger marketshare this would have been a big deal.
sri
I as a hindu, am APPALLED that you would use the word BEEF in my presence. You insensitive clod!
sri
Someone MOD parent up.
sri
Would you prefer a better name? How about "Glitter". Or is that too prophetic? ;)
sri
The pollution in these countries are mostly caused by 3 wheel vehicles and scooters. These pesky vehicles are everywhere. Luckily, at least the 3 wheeled rickshaws are now converting to natural gas in order to alleviate pollution problems.
But there needs to be more. I believe that accelerating fuel cell technology would drastically reduce a lot of these problems. Provided that an infrastructure can be set up . As of now the whole thing is in limbo. If there was no electricity or no gas or anything, India and China would be able to manage very quickly be reverting back to time honored traditions. The West would be screwed. (Too bad for me, having given my allegiance to U.S.)
As for renewable resources, Asian countries are/were the biggest recyclers. Most of what villages used in those days were all natural. Plaintain leaves were used as plates in the bygone era, and the trash would become compost. These days it's not as good because people are using plastic bags, plates and what not and completely causing problems there. I see at least India slowly relying on industries outside rather than itself. An economic embargo would have resulted in nothing due to self sufficiency. But alas, times change and India has to join the global trade group too bad it's not as an equal partner.
sri
I used to work as an operator at Purdue Computing center. Spent a lot of weekend nights sitting there in that computer room. Most of the time was spent throwing tape write tabs at each other and watching movie (we weren't supposed to but I pretty much broke any rule..)
It's excellent that we are getting the good stuff. When I was there the big deal was rs6000s that had come in.
sri
Hey we can really have some interesting public trials with this stuff. We could even do it just like in the beginning of Superman the Movie when Jor-El was trying those 3 criminals.
:-)
"The sentence is...death..death...death..(not that will happen in Europe mind you)"
sri