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Mozilla Foundation Meets The GNOME Foundation
An anonymous reader writes "The board of directors of the GNOME foundation recently met with a few representatives of the Mozilla foundation - discussing how they could collaborate a little closer in future. A number of interesting things were discussed, including XAML/Avalon and the future of Firefox in GNOME/Linux. Check out the minutes of the meeting on the Gnome mailing list."
Does Tokyo get stomped?
If all this should have a reason, we would be the last to know.
Better to standardize on Firefox rather than have the desktop environment people keep churning out half-assed browsers like Konq and Nautilus.
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
Maybe Timothy will post a book review of the proceedings if we are lucky. Makes me long back for a nice day of typical slanted RIAA/SCO/Microsoft postings.
Vision like this could only come the linux community.
I agree. No sooner have I downloaded and installed Mozilla browser that I have noticed by 17-year-old son looking at pornography and the images of filthy women on the Internet. Plus he started talking somce Communist manifesto stuff and once said he was going to install Lunix on our home machine.
I am not a violent man, but from good father's perspective I had to whip out my belt and show him that's the road to hell. That changed his perspective entirely, so right now he's quite happy using Internet Explorer 6 on Windows ME and paying for all the applications he uses except some cheap crap, that's so bad they have to give it away for other people to pick up.
I also own 100 shares of Microsoft stock in my portfolio, and so does my wife, so no Lunix talks are permitted in my house, since we are all planning for happy retirement.
It is really odd that Gnome opted for Epiphany as a default browser in 2.x, when Galeon is a better and more featureful choice. I've read that the reasons were that Galeon did not follow some UI guidelines (this could surely be worked out?), and that Epiphany is simpler to use.
I just find it hard to believe than anyone would pick Epiphany over Galeon, even considering simplicity, since Galeon mostly works like Mozilla. Galeon seems simpler to use to me - Epiphany doesn't look or feel like any other browser I've used.
Does this mean that Mozilla will be integrated into GNOME? If yes, then isn't this doing the same thing as IE into Windows which everyone on /. says is evil?
Indeed, as parent poster, I must admit I had written this down as some thoughts for inclusion in my journal at some point. But when I saw the front page, I felt I could post this as a warning, where it might be more visible. Is this a crime?
I am surprised you say it is a karma whore. In fact, I expect I will take a karma HIT for saying what is a contentious point. It's something I feel strongly about, so I post whether you approve or not. But next time think more carefully before branding me as a "whore" please. The term Karma solicitation should be used anyway, as it doesn't have such woman-hating connotations. You should be ashamed of yourself.
No, it's a shitty club in NYC where the sound system's too loud and the people are total meatheads.
And he even doesn't know about this awfull thing.
Comparing Nautilus with Konqueror is pure nonsense, comparing GNOME with KDE is even bigger nonsense. If we get a team of developers on a Table and discuss all the crap we find between KDE and GNOME then I can tell from own experience that the answer is clearly that GNOME will fail horrible here.
What can you say... most of that isn't even coherent enough to be deemed english.
But KDE had exactly all these things 2 years ago already. There is a development difference of 4 years between both Desktop solutions.
And there's a development difference of 2-4 years in the other direction on other issues. What's surprising about one (very good) desktop system having different priorities than another (very good) desktop system?
Hmmm interesting story, but this happened last year... Just check the date of the message and the members of gnome foundation...
Does anyone else find it funny that A Dragon type creature, and that a gnome can end up being friends? This just keeps reminding me of shrek, and I hope that gnome never becomes an annoying jack-ass. I will leave that title for SCO.
je suis parce que j'aime
Guess which "extensions" I'll be installing ASAP. Thank you oh prudish one for expediting my porn searching.
Slightly amusing, but incredibly stupid.
dude... note that your sig doesn't get indexed by google, which archives only the comment text with sigs stripped out. To get "hacker chick" google bombed, put it within the comment itself and hope your post gets modded up to where the big G will index it.
According to Google it's a lot of things, including a 3D image archive, a comic strip, an Apache project for service and component management or a Beowulf cluster.
However, there's no Microsoft stuff on the first ten hits.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
Gnomzilla! Everyone run for their lives!
You must be kidding. While replacing epiphany (the current gnome-browser) with firefox would be a good idea imho, calling the filemanager Nautilus a browser simply is anything but insightful.
Oh, and Konq is pretty awesome as a file-manager and has greatly improved as a web-browser.
Such is the case here. The need to more closely integrate the web rendering model and the desktop model is clear, and Microsoft is probably on to something compelling with Avalon/XAML. ActiveX was a disastrous first brush with integration but its clear they see a need and there is a need. Safe local applications integrated with the network do make sense.
On the open source side someone will have to lead to get this done - and not be afraid to leave some groups out. Epiphany should be an early victim - a "default" app no one uses.
Who wants pornographic pictures anyway? I think by now we've all graduated to movies. Firefox is way behind the porno movie technology curve, and I think thats a serious issue!
"Brendan spoke about the need for innovation, and not just clinging to web standards."
This is heading towards proprietary extensions territory, a la Netscape/IE. Even if the implementations are 100% free software, this might lock out other apps and projects. It would take a major undertaking for them to comply with the new 'standards'.
OLPC Australia
Konqueror, Nautilus, Epiphany, Galeon, Firefox, Mozilla et etc.. I have to agree that its getting kind of ridiculous.
Ok, choice is nice and all, but this duplication of functionality and work is probably extremely unproductive as a whole for the progress of open source software. It should be enough with 2-3 choices for browsers instead of 20: one or two lightweight ones á Firefox, and one or two "fully featured" like Mozilla.
Isn't the whole point of open source that there's as many choices as there are people to invest the time and energy? Shouldn't that broaden the possibilities of a given piece of software, if each is trying to bring something new to the table?
That being said, I agree that it would probably be best to focus efforts on the more mature technologies. But I wouldn't go so far as to say it's unproductive: rather, they're producing something, but there may be a lot of overlap between it and any other browser-type app out there.
And I prefer Stan Wagon's new invention, the xheel over the old wheel. Sure, they're square, and new roads will have to be build to accomodate them, but think of all the new jobs that will be created. I can't wait for the IPO.
Funny, yes. Informative, hardly.
... just wait until I metamod this.
The double-slash in 'GNU/XAML//GNU/Avalon' should have tipped you off even if the rest didn't.
> What's surprising about one (very good) desktop
> system having different priorities than another
> (very good) desktop system?
You probably mean KDE and Windows here. I certainly agree.
This is an endless variation of the same post, reposted every time there is the troll-luring subject about anything related to both Gnome and KDE.
The guy is actually glad that you (and therefore I) spent some time arguing with him. Let's stop it.
jdif
Let's overcome our weakness.
I hate to feed the trolls but criminy...
The emphasis is in the original post and it's an utterly ridiculous claim. Trust me, these fantastic features are every bit as useful and functional for downloading and cataloging even low-key, family-friendly porn that has nothing to do with whips, chains, or farm animals in leather pants.
Besides which, your cheap attempt to inject a little extra hype carries a distinct tone of shrill hysteria, which detracts from any attempt at a more reasoned argument. Your attempt to use one narrow aspect of the whole broad, rich spectrum of glorious pornography is misleading enough that it probably has its own latin name.
I guess it also goes without saying that the uses for tabbed browsing are limited only by the imagination and intelligence of the person who browses.
Consequently, your options may be severely limited. Let me help you get started.
To sum up: tabbed browsing is your friend. Whether you are cruising www.hotasiansluts.com or www.jesus.com, tabbed browsing can make your internet experience faster, easier, and better.
The Dalai Llama
...tab for the children...
P.S. - I gather that your tirade against tabbed browsing is a recurring theme. Feel free to bookmark this post and refer to it as needed.
My sig could be your sig!
What's the chances of GNOME adopting XUL for interfaces? I mean, we've got SVG graphics coming down the pipe. Why not define our interfaces in XML, too?
This moving UI to XML can be a powerful concept that will make writing desktop applications easier and more robust putting Linux (at least GNOME) ahead of Microsoft in the development tools game.
Please, please, please let this fail. The last thing I want is my favorite browser family tied to freaking GTK or Gnome.
REM Old programmers don't die. They just GOSUB without RETURN.
Thank you so much for letting me know about these cool extensions! That's what I've been looking for. That will save me a lot of time and free my other hand to do some important stuff.
Mozilla rock! (no pun intended)
You idiot! AFA.ORG links to the Air Force Association's website, not the American Family Association's.
Damn, you're stupid. Did you miss the part where it says "Check those URLs!"? Hint: it's right above the "submit" button.
The Dalai LLama
...hoping to beat somebody to the punch...slow lunch hour...
My sig could be your sig!
The meeting suggested innovation - what about this:
Tie XForms together with email. The purpose is to allow forms to be sent with email, as alternative to HTTP POST. Integrate it with mail clients so that clicking a link opens the compose window, which will load the form, show it, ready to fill in. When clicking send, the form is evaluated and sent. This is much nicer than filling in an order form in a browser, since you get to keep a copy in the outbox. Actually, I am surprised I don't see this already. Of course, it needs to be standardized, but you have to start somewhere. Is there perhaps already an RFC in progress?
Ah yes. Trashing. An Aussie's favourite sport. Though not usually done in cowardice, usually most Aussies are quite happy to take the flames that result.
:(
Ooooo... IHBT! IHL
I am not a violent man, but from good father's perspective I had to whip out my belt and show him that's the road to hell
Typical abusive father. Don't be surprised when ur son wont visit you when he realizes how much of a violent fuck you are
Mozilla is already technically better than IE. Evolution is already technically better than Outlook. So why isn't the majority of the market using these products? The problem is not a technical problem, and all the new programming languages and acronyms are not going to make the average joe want to use them.
here's an idea, lets all pitch in and try to make a commercial for one of the OSS project. Lets take OpenOffice for example. We all see the MS Office commercials constantly throughout the day. Imagine if those were OpenOffice commercials instead. Maybe a snappy ad in Cosmopolitan magazine.
I really wish that there was as much marketing innovation in OSS as there is development innovation....
mp3's are only for those with bad memories
Now, what exactly is your problem with porn? Or are you actully as much of a controlling, clueless ass as you sound? If you don't like using extensions to surf porn, then don't. Butt out of everyone else's life.
Damn, Hacker chicks are supposed to be cool, but you appear to suck.
...mozilla wants to collaborate closer with GNOME and that they asked for it first, according to the release of the minutes of the meeting. Cool Beans. Something that I like, more focused direction on unification for a polished product. *Choice* is good,but it's subjective without some sort of rational goal, choice by itself is mostly used as a buzzword, there must be a *goal* in making the choice and having multiple choices, not just that there *are* multiple choices extant.
And my choice and I bet millions of others would be a "linux thing" that worked cohesively together, and that just won't happen very quickly with thousands of directions taken, many of them just parallel trails with each other.
I most certainly would *chose* an operating system/distribution that worked all well together. A choice of a chaotic mish mash of thousands of incompatable apps and a so-so functionality is not much of a choice if you want quality over quantity.
Slashdot. News for nerds. Stuff that mattered.
I was going to mention that you were being a little rough on the parent, until I saw you were beating yourself up... Which I suppose is ok in my book, as long as you know what you're doing. :)
Page title is wrong. The date on the message headers say:
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:44:36 +1200
The really odd thing is the GMT +1200 time zone stamp... Is that Hawaii?
What exactly is lightweight about Firefox? With the right plugins, it runs everything that me *brrr* IE used to, plus the popup-stopper, tabs, etc.
It doesn't have a built-in email client, but then that's what thunderbird or other apps or for.
Some people do have problems getting Java support going though, but I've had good success running sun's Java under firefox more recent.
Thank you for pointing out an obvious TYPO. Whomever modded you down should try reading the linked archive. Since the previous meeting minutes in the thread were marked 2004, I can only assume that this was a simple typo.
;)
In the spirit of open-source, does anyone know of a link where I can submit a change to this all-important piece of info (ie Glynn Foster's email)?
And in the real spirit of open source, I should point out that KDE would never make such an inexcusable mistake. (joking!)
Don't you ever get tired of your obsession: ranting about GNOME? Dude, please. Instead of your whining -which the developers don't take serious anymore- go do something USEFUL instead.
OSS developers tend to push the rather silly 'it's cheaper so they'll switch if we offer a similar solution' battle plan. No thanks. I'm still using Windows (actually, Mac primarily) although Linux is cheaper because Windows and Mac provide me with a whole lot of ease of use that Linux lacks, for what is relatively a small amount of money. (When you consider I work on these things 8 hours a day!) When Linux provides ease of use at more than a superficial level (no, having a GUI doesn't automatically mean "easy to use") then I'll think about switching.
Apple was smart when they took an attitude of "we don't *CARE* what Microsoft is doing, we'll just carve our own markets and create compelling value". This strategy works, because Apple isn't constantly trying to catch up with Microsoft. Instead, they're working on the best possible solution for *their* customers, not Microsoft's. They have a very good understanding of who their customers are, and which customers they're likely to switch over. They've done research on this.
What Mozilla should have learned by now is that the browser just isn't that important anymore. "Our browser is better than yours" will hardly cause end users to switch in boatloads. Developers, however, are more open to switching and more keen on using these technologies in their own apps. Yet, despite this, they say that embedding and the GRE are not priorities until FireFox 1.0 is released. So their focus is on making a good browser, which MS already has. (Don't start about the benefits of Mozilla over IE, I know what they are and most users neither know nor care.)
Their real potential growth market is in embedding, where Windows/Linux/Mac apps can share a similar rendering engine, in tools like Quicken/TurboTax. XUL is an added bonus. But embedding is not a priority nor is it easy to do. So while they could be getting Mozilla/GRE dumped on all sorts of desktops via third-party apps, they've chosen to focus on converting end users, a majority of whom just don't care about which browser they use.
Another great growth area would be Composer, which is already a decent contender to FrontPage, but which most people don't even know exists. Again, a compelling selling point for Mozilla (and embeddable!) but it basically gets ignored. In fact, I think editor embedding is actually a killer app for Mozilla - how many apps work with HTML these days? And unlike with the browser, Mozilla has very little competition here. FrontPage and Dreamweaver are expensive, and they don't offer a real, compelling benefit over Composer.
Instead of pursuing these opportunities, now it sounds like they're going to dump bunches of resources integrating with GNOME and trying to beat Microsoft at its own game (good luck, you're not the first to try!). Also, sounds like they're going to try reinventing portions of wxWidgets/wxWindows internally to provide a "native" XUL, like OpenOffice is now in the process of doing with their own toolkit. Talk about collaboration! It's a wonder we haven't tore Microsoft a new one yet...
It's sad to just see someone advocate telling open source developers what to do and not do. It's even sadder that such a statement is moderated as insightful.
People should be allowed to write whatever they want, as long as it doesn't hurt any person. Period.
You know, the 1rst Foundation mets the 2nd Foundation, at last !
Where is Hari Seldon when we need him ? Wait, we've Eric Raymond. Damn, if only Google/Gaia eats them and convert all the people to a single colectivity entity knowed as Googalaxy ! All we'll be happy.
From what I hear the following things are being discussed:
1) Having Mozilla and Gnome look alike
2) Integrating Mozilla and Gnome features
3) World domination
Oops, ignore that third one.
I think this is super!
I have really missed being able to fully make use of my Desktop space. I really hope that gnome adds the ability to use any application as the desktop. I really am not pleased with Nautillus and I would mutch prefer to run ximian's evolution as My desktop or render a PHP-based web interface there so that I can manage my life from my desktop. Being able to take care of my finances, to-do list, and scedule, map my news and email would be great, but as far as I know there is no construct for doing so. If I'm wrong, please point me to HOW-TO's on how to replace the desktop host application.
Also, is there a way to run an application as the default desktop, like specifying a diffferent chell in windows, this would be optimal for Linux-POS *solutions*
Can I be a Luddite too?
Yes, I mentioned tabbed browsing in my previous post. However, if you had read this one - I've moved on. Perhaps in your reply to my next post on this subject you will reply to this posts points, yes? Personally I enjoy writing replies to the post that is actually in front of me rather than the last one on the subject. I find it less confusing. Still, each to his own.
As for your lovely strawman argument about tabbed browsing, well...yes, that is what people originally said. And I agreed with them. To paraphrase your fine self "Your attempt to use one narrow aspect of my whole post is misleading enough that it probably has its own term." And that term is : strawman.
Perhaps your post could explain some of the actual points I raise. Please let the words drip from your keyboard and tell me how the functionality of Magpie can be used for something other than pornography?? Note: Magpie, not tabbed browsing.
In fact, it is revealing that you try to answer the question I don't ask, rather than the one in front of you. Have you found yourself defending the indefensible?? Please note: my problem with this is that they are Mozilla supported extensions. perhaps you would actually like to also address that point, yes?
Really, all that hot air boils down to one point: You are using excessively emotional language. Guilty as charged. As you may have realised from me repeatedly mentioning it, it's something I feel strongly about.
~SO
It wasn't a troll, it was a joke.
If it was a troll, pretend it was a joke.
Either way, he's not serious.
Laugh, it's funny.
George II -- Spreading Freedom and American values, one bomb at a time.
You say, first, that Linux is hard to use because it's tools are superficial. Then you say that Apple did it right because they chose to carve their own market.
Linux has already done this. It's current market is full of geeks who don't think that Linux is hard to use. I think Windows is hard to maintain, and that's why I use Linux. The Linux community is now trying to expand their market to people like you, who don't see the elegance of how things are handled in a unix-ish OS.
Is my response elitist? A little bit, but it's true. I think you're original post was ignorant. I've been tossing the idea around in my head that maybe it would be better if Linux -wasn't- the most used OS. It'll end up like Windows.
:wq
... then we would have KNOMzilla.
On a more serious note, imagine if KDE/GNOME/Mozilla all joined forces and worked under common leadership towards a common goal. That's an environment I would like to see someday! Throw in the WINE project and we're talking some major software muscle.
-- Stu
/. ID under 2,000. I feel old now.
You didn't even read his post. He likes and -uses- Gnome. He's saying that there are genuine problems with Gnome, and that he uses it in -spite- of them. I'm sure he'd like to see them fixed.
;)
Quit being blinded by this stupid holy war. And actually read the fucking posts.
:wq
isnt avalon the new windows Quartz extreme knockoff?
Generally speaking, yes. It does have some different features, but it does basically the same thing. Here are some better links than a simple google search would give you:
Avalon
The Blinking Lights Division
FYI, there was a lot of talk in the minutes about XAML, which is similar to XUL. It's a part of Avalon as well.
A brief summary of my previous post would be to say that certain features of Firefox make it too easy to misuse the web browser to surf for pornography
... the moral health of this nation"? I guess you're probably refering to the US, since most of the ignorant sods that say "this nation" over the Internet are from the US. And, I would venture to say that something that has been around and a strong part of our culture for over a century... probably isn't the reason for any currently growing woes. In fact, I've noticed that in the last 10-20 years we backward US types have actually started to GET OVER porn and recognize it for what it is: pictures, nothing more, nothing less.
Um.. April 1 was a while back...
But I've since discovered that actual Mozilla supported extensions such as this one, "Magpie" or this one "Prev/Next image", which are actually given web space and bookmarked by default by the Mozilla developers themselves can only be useful in the context of searching for and downloading hardcore or violent pornography
Magpie can be used to download any images, including non-violent porn, violent non-porn and non-violent, non-porn... imagine!
Prev/Next image is useful for any numerically indexed images such as software screenshots, wallpaper, artist portfolios and even, yes, porn.
Again... you... were joking... weren't you? Man, I really hope so.
Pornography is destroying the Internet and the moral health of this nation
Well, let's see... pornography not only paid for much of the exisiting Internet buildout (given that it was the first, and for a very long time, ONLY widespread profitable enterprise on the Net) it has also underwritten most major changes in media since the printing press. Ever wonder how there came to be a separate rate for postcards? Yep, porn. So, if you want to remove porn-related media start with the postal rate for postcards.
And "destroying
Perhaps someday we'll be so grown up that we can talk to each other about sex and not get flustered. Wow, imagine being an adult AND being allowed to act like it!
Having a major open source project associate itself publicly with perversion and pornography [...] is no way to gain respect.
1. Seems to work fine in every other area of life
2. When did you introduce perversion?
Repeat after me: images aren't porn unless they involve sex. The ability to manipulate imagines cannot preclude sexual images.
Those two are true regardless of how you feel about sex and porn.
A tiny dinosaur fishing in the pond at the bottom of the garden?
Free Firefox news reader.
Slightly amusing, but incredibly stupid.
:-(
Did you read what he was following up to? I would say that the only danger in that kind of reply is that the OP might have assunmed he was serious.
It is more disgusting than goatse.cx. Please moderate down!
The current problem with Mozilla is that it is a monolith suite. Where Mozilla succeeds is where they allow Mozilla functionallity to be imported into other applications.
One of Gnome's greatest strength is that developers can pick and choose which libraries to include to build their applications.
The Mozilla people need to extract from their code useable libraries that anyone can use. This alone will lead to integration with Gnome, as has been the case with the HTML rendering.
1. IBM's SWT requires C++ interfaces and it needs gnome in addition to current GTK bindings. SWT is the fastest best API supporting most common platforms it runs 10 times faster than mozilla because it uses native widgets.
;)
2. XUL needs to be mapped to SWT bindings so it has faster native cross platform support. This would be the quickest way to get mozilla to run and look like a native app on most platforms.
With these two changes people can develop cross platform apps with native GUI's either directly in C, Java or using XUL for layout.
3. Once that is done you can clone XAML/Avalon.
If I have any spare time this weekend I will put togethor the neccessary patches
Matt.
while (!asleep()) sheep++
# apt-get install epiphany-browser
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
The following extra packages will be installed:
docbook-xml docbook-xsl gconf2 gnome-doc-tools gnome-icon-theme gnome-mime-data libbonobo2-0 libbonobo2-common libbonoboui2-0 libbonoboui2-common libeel2-2 libeel2-data libfam0c102 libgconf2-4 libgnome-desktop-2 libgnome2-0 libgnome2-common libgnomeui-0 libgnomeui-common libgnomevfs2-0 libgnomevfs2-common libnautilus2-2 liborbit2 libscrollkeeper0 libxslt1.1 scrollkeeper yelp
Suggested packages:
gnome-vfs-extras2
The following NEW packages will be installed:
docbook-xml docbook-xsl epiphany-browser gconf2 gnome-doc-tools gnome-icon-theme gnome-mime-data libbonobo2-0 libbonobo2-common libbonoboui2-0 libbonoboui2-common libeel2-2 libeel2-data libfam0c102 libgconf2-4 libgnome-desktop-2 libgnome2-0 libgnome2-common libgnomeui-0 libgnomeui-common libgnomevfs2-0 libgnomevfs2-common libnautilus2-2 liborbit2 libscrollkeeper0 libxslt1.1 scrollkeeper yelp
0 upgraded, 28 newly installed, 0 to remove and 83 not upgraded.
By the way, even if Epiphany does not become the standard browser, I don't like the direction things are headed in with Firefox becoming the default. The designers seem to have outsourced their UI design to Redmond. Here are a few examples of the things I don't like about Firefox that I feel came directly from IE and really don't jive with my habits that come from using NSCP products for 10 years:
And there are many more things I dislike about Firefox, but these are just the ones I feel they took directly from IE. I understand that they want it to be easy for IE users to migrate, but this inflexible browser really doesn't meet the expectations of power users like myself and many of my friends. I've tried to reason with some of the Firefox developers about some of these issues, and they firmly believe that Firefox should cater to the needs of IE converts. They don't want to add preference items for the admittedly minor things I care about because it would confuse people and possibly make Firefox's preferences UI as slow as Mozilla's (XUL doesn't seem very scalable). This is proof that only having one browser is not sufficient, especially if it's a least common denominator one. I haven't used Epiphany, but I can't see how it would be better to remove the choice between Firefox and Epipha
This is GNOME we are talking about.
This is the same GNOME that starts a whole lot of really cool things but never finishes them.
- GNOME vfs - great idea, but none of the modules really work like they should. The ssh, smb, and ftp method are all sketchy at best.
- CORBA-like Object system - another great idea with some great code behind it but hardly implemented in any applications. I should be able to use a web browser object, a emailer object, etc.
The two issues above take the "OBJECT" and "NETWORK" right out of GNOME. I really like GNOME - libxml, atk, bonobo, and gtk are excellent.
I would believe that this is going somewhere if the KDE group announced it, but I have a feeling that this will be yet another great idea that will never really pan out.
On a more serious note, imagine if KDE/GNOME/Mozilla all joined forces and worked under common leadership towards a common goal.
Hey, let me know if you guys need volunteers for the "common leadership" position. I think my leadership abilities speak for themselves.
Cheers,
Darl
Although that might be confusing to people who are used to calling their Mozilla browser Mozilla/Phoenix/FireBird/FireFox.
;-)
Err.... Nevermind.
It bothers me that Firefox has the ok/cancel
buttons inverted when I use it in Linux.
I feel the gnome people wanna try to turn
all Mozilla products into gnome stuff.
It starts with OOo (remember "Openoffice, the gnome office suite)
and now they wanna take over Mozilla.
All just coz they are unable to deliver a decent
browser.
One word: KHTML
You know what I wish for? A visual XUL generator, just like Visual Basic in Windows. I also want the Mozilla team to make Firefox run XUL applications using the currently selected GNOME skins and widgets, so that it integrates cleanly. With that, Linux would have a true RAD environment, and maybe we could get more new developers into Linux.
This being said, I too hope they slow down production on Seamonkey and shift gears, but they're close and they're getting closer every release. And Firebird's already over 90,000 lines different than Mozilla, not to mention fast as hell on both platforms I use daily (Linux + Windows).
"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
Is there someone working on Firefox or Mozilla with QT/KDE interface?
Tell me, my friend.
.wav files of Kevin Smith discussing construction of the Death Star. No, the 99.9% are downloading jpegs, and you know it. Oh, I can hear you whining from here. "But you said ALL, not the vast majority". Yes, you have won that rhetorical point. I should obviously qualify my every statement with "evidence suggests", "the majority", or "a sizable percentage". Never mind it would be unreadable. But to get back to your point, by your logic we should allow Paedophilic magazines to be sold in newsagents because you know ONE GUY who buys it to line his budgie cage.
What do you think the majority of people using Magpie are downloading with it? I'd respectfully suggest that they are NOT downloading
But let me explain my "only in the context of downloading hardcore or violent pornography" quote which you lambasted me for previously. Psychological studies suggest that people exposed to pornography become jaded very quickly. Previously stomach churning sights become commonplace, and the subject has to seek out more and more extreme sexual behaviour to get the same initial illicit thrill. Logically, it is easy to see why then Magpie is so dangerous. It encourages the massing of large amounts of porn because it is so easy. Inevitably this will lead to the seeking of more disgusting and depraved acts such as (but not limited to) rimming (male and female), gaping (front and back), anal, bukkake, fisting (front and back), pissing, scat games, Sado-masochism, group orgies, bizarre insertions, bestiality, incest and swimwear. This is proven fact Thus it is an inescapable fact that usage of Magpie will lead to the downloading of these materials. All the psychological evidence to date supports this conclusion.
In regards to your other point "Mozilla is going to support anything that will improve and extend the functionality of their browsers", I would hope you are wrong. I expect that Mozilla would draw the line at (as I originally suggested) a "porno" button theme. They must make moral choices about what they allow to appear! They cannot offer a porno theme on their default bookmarks. You know very well that if I offered them a self created porno theme, they would NOT host it. They would most likely point me to some backwater which could discreetly host it instead. This mental example shows that at some level they must be aware that PR demands they are very careful about what they appear to endorse! It is SO CLEAR, SO OBVIOUS as to be breathtaking that I have had so much stick about this point!
I feel your allusion to Don Quixote is apt. He too was a misguided fool. Perhaps you meant it as an insult to me, to allude that I was no "proper knight". It has backfired.
~SO
Repeat after me pornography is material that is likely to deprave or corrupt, at least by definition in english law. Hence "images aren't porn unless they involve sex" is completly inaccurate.
He doesn't say anything that isn't true. If any gnome fan can stand here and say with a straight face that gnome does not have serious framework issues and those gihand ui guidelines aren't messing it up, then it may be time to take the blinders off.
Oh yeah, truth = flamebait on slashdot, duh.
silly arse.. did you actually read the whole post?
*sigh*
Hmmm Interesting.. I havent seen a naked lady anywhere except in my shower in a long long time..
I happen to make extensive use of magpie to browse my way through numerous screen shots of website templates and graphics artwork, looking for the next great image for my new open-source GPL project.. which, by the way has absolutely NOTHING to do with porn in any way shape or form.
If it wasnt for Magpie, I'd be using (GASP!) Internet Exploder 6.0 with it's handy-dandy "save this image" button that automatically pops up when you mouseover an image.. Talk about supporting the download and saving of porn materials... no more "right click, save as, select folder and save" , but instead, just hit that little floppy disk icon Microsoft so brilliantly thought to provide when you hover your mouse pointer over an image...
Oh yeah that's right.. Porno freaks don't like I.E. 6.0 because they can't link images... Why link em when you can save em?
I have to agree fully with those who would label you as a Troll..
If you are gonna bash Mozilla's support of MagPie extension, It would seem fair that you also bash Microsoft's support/creation/deployment of similar "handy-dandy" image handling features..
Or, are you just being paid by Bill Gates to bash a nice new feature that Microsnot doesnt yet have anything to compete with??
It's very anti-Unix though. Remember the old Linux-is-more-secure argument that centered around the difference in how Linux email apps and Microsoft Outlook/Outlook Express handle email attachments? The argument went something like "In Linux, you have to go through extra, deliberate steps to make an attachment executable, so things like PIF and SCR trojan horses aren't possible in Linux." The MSFT/Miguel position is that we'll have content-like apps and app-like content all over, and these will be cross-platform. Welcome to the SCR/PIF attack scenarios. "But, but, but, " Miguel will exclaim, "the sandbox will protect you." Uh-huh. Sure. Maybe you buy that, but when it comes to protecting my local system, I'll take the elegant simplicity of octal permissions settings over tens of thousands of lines of C#/C++ code any day -- have you ever looked at the .NET Framework Configuration control panel in XP???
In Miguel's world, all of us Windows/Linux/MacOS users will be running cross-platform .NET-based virus/malware scanners to protect us from the new cross-platform .NET-based virus/trojan/etc. malware.
Miguel is clever, but I doubt his wisdom.
Why is a list of random Google search results for "Avalon" get modded up?
Here's an actual informative Google search about Avalon:
"msdn avalon"
Amazing what you can accomplish by actually searching correctly.
no one said integrating a web browswer into the desktop was evil.
Yes, they did. Everyone bitched endlessly about the "pointless" integration of the web browser and file browser. How it slowed things down. How it makes things unstable.
Then along comes KDE which takes seconds to load my Home folder. Suddenly, history is revised and "nobody complained" when Windows 98 did it (I guess the fact Windows 98 did it is some sort of persuasive proof that it should be done in the first place).
Pretty soon, nobody will have complained about taskbars and start menus either...even though they did. But as soon as KDE/GNOME adopts it, bam, it's suddenly an okay idea that Microsoft popularized...not a bad idea that got too popular for its own good.
Actually, Linux is just a kernel. This is an important point.
If Linux is "just a kernel," how can FreeBSD refer to both the kernel, the userland tools, the environment, etc.?
Don't tell me you're one of those moronic "GNU/Linux" weenies.
Instead of the Mozilla Foundation, why the hell isn't the GNOME Foundation meeting the KDE Foundation?
Allright, I'll bite. First, just for reference, if you look at this guy's posts, almost all of them are rated (-1). So, his statements aren't merely bad; they are consistently bad to the point where (we must assume) multiple moderators over time thought it was worth it to burn their mod points to take this guy out.
Major premise however, is the question: what's wrong with looking at porn? Honestly. How does looking at pictures of nude (or naked) women (or men) destroy the moral health of a country?
I'm not sure what ``moral health'' is, anyway. But even assuming the US ever had, I think after Wounded Knee, Vietnam, Nisei camps, etc., it's pretty much gone. How does a person looking at porn have a worse effect on a nation's moral character than would killing women and children?
As George Carlin put it: Of all the things you could do to a person, giving someone an orgasm is hardly the worst thing in the world. In the army they give you a medal for spraying napalm on people. Maybe I'm not supposed to understand it!
I have been using Gnome on Linux as my only desktop for a year now. Gnome has many problems, and I have been experimenting with KDE on spare computer. One very simple example of Gnome's problems is that files on NFS, SMB, FTP, etc... are functionally different from files on the local disk. So if I want to play an MP3 on that resides on my file server, I have to copy it to my desktop, under Gnome, and then play it... while with KDE I can simple browse to the file and play it.
And even for browsing the local filesystem, Nautilus is a usability nightmare! It is slow, often crashes, and many times fails to render the contents of a directory.
Really. Microsoft Foundation Classes are so much more educational. We should all take some.
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
You don't like Epiphany because it doesn't have the features of Galeon or Firefox? Boy-o, I'm afraid that you are missing the point completely. Epiphany is meant to be a cool, crisp, and simple browser for Gnome. It does that job wonderfully. It's not capable of these things because it's not designed to, following the HIG that proclaims (paraphrasing of course) useability over features. That's the freaking point... an equivilent argument is that that Christians worship God too much.
The Gnome project is different in that respect than the KDE project. I wouldn't say it's better than KDE, that's not really fair. Since I appreciate the care they put towards useablity, and am willing to sacrific some gee-whiz features, Gnome is the right desktop environment for me. Notice how I'm not speaking for anyone else? The KDE folks have a lot of nice apps... k3b for example. They deserve all the credit they get. But I find every application cluttered and ugly -- though rich in features -- it's a matter of personal taste so don't flame me for being honest.
Based on what I just said, is it any surprise now that I *love* Epiphany? It's a delicious browsing experience and one of the best things about the Gnome project. It fits with the general sensibility of the project, and it rocks. Advanced users can install Firefox or Mozilla if they'd like to -- most distros can/do include one of those. This is just about the default browser choice, and they wisely chose the browser that best fits the project.
501 Not Implemented
you think the current system and its participants are being productive?
You are, of course, correct (my appologies for being too limiting). However, taking that statement and expanding it to, "a feature used for viewing the next image in a series can ONLY be used for violent, hardcore pornography" is far, far beyond incorrect, it's utter nonesense.
;-)
Excuse me while I go browse some User Friendly strips using that feature... Hmm, then again, given your definition of porn...
So when are we going GNOME intergrate Mozilla and have them brought up on Anti-trust violations?
Wow, your post was so stupid that I uncontrollably vomited on my keyboard.
Allright, I'll bite. First, just for reference, if you look at this guy's posts, almost all of them are rated (-1). So, his statements aren't merely bad; they are consistently bad to the point where (we must assume) multiple moderators over time thought it was worth it to burn their mod points to take this guy out.
Yes, it's know as posting bonus, you moron. It comes from having poor karma, not from being modded down on each and every post. Please give us more of your engrossing wisdom! Perhaps you might like give us the benefit of your amazing moderation insights on thorny issues such as:
Posts that are funny are modded "Funny". What's up with that?
There's some sort of strange toggle at the top of the page with -1 to 5 on it. What's up with that?
I've been told I got mod points. What are those?
What's a troll? Where are my shoes? How can AOL fit the Internet in my computer on just one compact disc? Hey - that isn't the real wallet inspector!
Not content with this stupidity, parent then makes the mistake of completely misreading the argument presented. Allow me to emphasise for the hard of thinking. The problem is that these porn gatherers are Mozilla supported and bookmarked by default! There - that wasn't so hard, was it?
I don't know what the greater bloody tragedy is here, that parent got a +2 insightful, or that I have to clean half digested carrots off my keyboard.
~SO
Which brings up the wider question of why are you here if you hate Linux so much? If you want a so-called 'unified desktop' keep on using Windows or OS X and be happy.
Does Epiphany support proxies yet? Last I checked, there was no option.
And, no, GNOME options don't count. I use a proxy specifically because I want to pick and chose which apps are allowed to use the network and which aren't.
Open source isn't the road to hell. Is it evil to use something you don't have to pay money for? You still have to pay for it: pay in time spent downloading 600 MB CD images, time spent installing it and smoothing out any hardware compatibility woes. True, it is woe to large corporations (like a certain Monsterous Software Inc. (TM) which I will not mention. But Windows is inferior to Linux anyways.
Look how they got the Cancel and OK buttons backwards.