I think the argument is the reverse of what your saying: Crusoe's power consumption isn't revolutionary since a 700 Mhz Crusoe roughly equals the performance of 300 MHz PIII.
This shows the benefits of competition working in a market driven society: Transmeta forced Intel to offer a low-power chip, which they really had no reason to do until now. Of course, Intel's offering will basically demolish Transmeta b/c OEM sol'ns for PIII are off-the-shelf simple, not to mention a barrage of other concerns (reliability, market proven, brand equity...)
This sounds like a great idea, but I believe the Gutenberg project is committed effort run by monks. I'm by no means knocking the effort of the volunteers, but wonder if this is just a short-lived idea, or of there is significant enough funding/interest to keep this online indefinitely.
I mean, monks are known for keeping ritual alive for centuries/millenia... can an open-source/decentralized set of contributors do the same?
Simply call the # and report every student in all of your classrooms. Convince a few friends to do the same, and eventually, every student will be on the roster for investigation.
Granted, this sounds like that lame Spacey movie "Pay it Forward", it would definitely complicate the works.
I completely agree. The near-last bullet about using your right brain: "go wild, listen to that little voice inside" made me cringe. It was like some Oprah Winfrey moment, or a page from one of those little "Life's Little Book of Quotes" crap that they sell near the cash registers at bookstores.
Hey hey, I hug trees, eat tofu and think fur is stupid, but I'm way pro nuclear. And if you know anyone that is anti-nuclear because of the "pollution issue" just ask them what they would rather have:
a few hundred tons of nuclear waste that can be contained and monitored somewhere safe (like Nevaada),
or a few billion tons of fossile fuel waste dumped uncontrollabley into the oceans and spewed into the atmosphere.
Nevadans may hate the idea, but when normalized the power/waste ratio of nuclear plans is much higher than coal/oil and the waste output is a heck of a lot more manageable.
My $0.02.
And go easy on the Greens, a desire to breathe clean air isn't a stupid idea.
does everything have to end up looking like a honda civic these days? the person that buys this stuff must be the same kind of person that orders $10k worth of 'tricked out' aftermarket accessories for their $3k honda. what the fuck is the obsession with noisy, low-riding japanese cars? i soooo do not understand that trend. did i look this stupid with the pegged jeans and painted sleevless denim jacket that i wore when I was 14?
Looking at their datasheets, it doesn't make sense to put an athlon in a sever box when a p3 would use such less power and so much more reliable.
Athlon (1.2) P3 (1.0)
Pmx 66 26 W
Ta 42 45 C
Tj 95 70 C
Vcc 1.75 1.7 V
c/s no-dp yet i840
First, 66 vs 26 Watts is a big difference, especially given city power grid issues on the west coast.
Second, Ta is the temperature the OEM must keep at 3mm above the die. 42 is _very_ hard to keep for a 66 W part and requires a real sol'n. Most sol'ns I've seen from OEMs are less then adequate, but they don't have to be too fancy because typical desktop PCs can be a low cost sol'n. A server part would need to spend way more $$$ for an AMD part than Intel.
3rd & 4th. Tj is the max temp the die can run at at that frequency. This number is usually increase to hit higher frequency targets. As Tj increase, electromigration becomes a huge issue. EMigration is the deteriation of the metal contacts on the die, which directly translates into MTBF. If intel can run 1GHz at a whopping 25C LESS than AMD, that says something about intel's reliability and reduced cost to cool.
(Side note: compare these temp/pwr numbers then compare the cooling sol'n seen in OEM boxes: they're usually the same for AMD/intel. Now ask yourself is Intel overconservative, or is AMD hoping their boxes last long enough for the next upgrade cycle?)
SO why did Sun go with Athlon? Don't know. Must be a political move to piss off Intel, esp. considering they plan to support IA64. Also odd b/c historically, Sun has always used Sparc processors and eschewed x86. Why the sudden change of heart? We'll see what kind of volume they do on this box. It may be just political move.
This really isn't intended for the technophile, it is a transition vehicle that enables three different technologies: keyboard, pad and touchscreen, ultimately weaning luddites from their fear of PCs/PDAs. Perhaps this is the logical transition point between laptop and PDA (subnotebooks are a failure IMHO).
The pad is the key component because you can always drop back and scribble if your windows crashes, giving a sense of security. Plus, it's in a nifty package, so you don't have to fumble a laptop AND a pad of paper.
Plust the flexibility of using just the touch screen is what I've been longing for. I used PenWindows and a backlit Wacom pad back in 93 and fell in love with it, then it died a horrible costly death. Hopefully it will be reborn soon by devices like this.
For me, there isn't a program fast enough yet that I can use to go from mind to screen. Even visio isn't fast enough... Sometimes I even drop into notepad or paint, but they still can't compete with pen/paper for rapid thought.
Interesting that Israel falls under tier 3, but Intel owns a plant there. Doesn't this screw up the restrictions if an American company abroad can exceed the limitations of T3, but the products aren't actually imported to the US?
Anybody know what the export distinction is in this case?
I think the explosion of geek t-shirts as a mode of expression and a symbol of being part of the geek world has arisen largely within the last few years due to online shopping and the rush of coolness associated with obscure slogans, or *gasp* source code on your T-shirt.
Most shirts made prior to this cultural rush were internal shirts made for product launches (team morale), or promotional shirts from early trade shows. Those would be very interesting indeed -- not the nth-million Mozilla shirt. Big yawn. The site only had one T from pre 1990. Not very exciting.
I've got National Computer Camps t's from the mid-80's. Anyone else go to NCC, back when there were only 2 campsites (national my ass!;-).
My company had an oldest product T-shirt contest a few years back. Somebody won with a shirt from the 80s... pit stains and all!
I'm making all three of those statements. The attitidue is evil because its existence justifies the 'human nature' response. I feel messages like this are dangerous. Like Sherwin Williams' "Cover the Earth" logo, with a can of paint covering the globe. To me, that's a dangerous message to people who don't take the time to think objectively. The same goes for the shameless promotion of SUVs and high-power yet inefficient engines. There's a huge market for glamorizing waste exploited all over the place.
Now on to Apple. First, as stated by another post, Apple is very energy star compliant. Credentials: I have always been a fan of Apple, and learned on an early//e. Now I work for an x86-centric company, and have used PC's since the early 80's because I couldn't afford a Mac. Yet I've always considered Apple to be a thinktank leftist artistic movement in the corporate PC environment. I know, I know, Apple is trying to make a profit just like everyone else, but they've always been so upper-class about it, where IBM, Dell, Gateway, etc, all seem so lo-brow. To see Apple try to cater to lowbrow markets is what bothered me. "Think Different" is intellectually, environmentally and politically significant (albeit grammatically incorrect). "Power to Burn" is so WWF.
Yes yes. x86 machines are hot hot hot, and the G4 cube doesn't even have a fan! When will we ever see THAT on x86. But I wasn't talking about power consumption of the CPU, just the overtones of the statement itself irked me.
Apple has always been a vehicle for pseudointellectuals (and trendy artists) to strut elitism through material possessions. Now Apple is blatantly reflecting the rash overconsumption of Americans. A titanium chassis? What a waste of a rare metal. "Power to Burn"? Ironic at a time when the west coast is suffering an energy crisis brought on by their own greed and glut. I know he is referring to CPU processing power, but it just smacks of gluttony: we've got sooo much power we can just waste it and waste it and waste it...
I wonder of the ultrahip mac zealots paid any mind to this contradiction?
OO isn't fun for boys because it requires too much foreplay. 99% of 'em just wanna charge of to the clitoris and hack hack hack.
The way I sees it, OO philosophy splits effort 80/20: 80% on planning, documenting, philosohpy, interface, roadmap (compatbility fwd/bckwd)etc. --20% is actually writing code.
Granted one could argue that any good coding effort requires the above, however on projects I've work (C/x86-asm), 30% is spent deciding what to do, and 70% of the time is spent designing and coding simultaneously. Which can work, b/c procedural coding is immediately gratifying, whereas intelligent OO requires much more foreplay, er, planning.
Duh, my bad. Thanks for clarifying. I had just finished computing power consumption of a 64-bit inverting I/O buffer on this here project, so my mind was in a different context and I thought I could start a good fight.;-)
It is common practice to use inverted logic in signaling (0=1,1=0) to reduce switching times in cmos circuits or reduce power consumption or transmission capacitance by keeping signal lines charged.
'Setting' and 'clearing' are entirely semantic, so what point are you trying to make exactly?
hmmm, I wonder what percentage of those 11,650 are dangerous to your health to be at? (e.g. mountain pass in the Andes, back alley in Kuala Lumpur...) ---
too bad they aren't taking panoramic shots, then you could do node-based virtual tours of the planet's topography (topology?).
But the distance between degree longitude at the equator is fairly huge (looking at my globe) compared with the poles. Either way, its a step in the right direction.
I just hope people don't leave too many geocaches of garbage lying around in the woods.
Ever since the dashing Matthew Broderick hacked W.O.P.R., hollywood has just fawned all over them lovable nerds. When are we going to see some real computer geeks depicted the way they really look (besides the "Mr Potato Head! Back doors are NOT secrets" duo). For every dozen Keanu Reeves and Sandra Bullock flicks, there needs to be at least one "Revenge of the Nerds" to really nail reality of it.
And don't none of you purdee pierced gothy gen-y Linux dorks start emailing me pictures of your beautiful hairless chins, I believe you.
Is it 9ft tall, but is 3' of it underground? perhaps that is what keeps it from falling over and squashing the little child in the photo... not that that wouldn't be cool... but still. ---
Ah, that's right. I don't think they had the major scrolls at the '94 DeYoung exhibit, most were just tiny (3"x5") square snippets lying in glass cases. The stories they told weren't associated with anything about Moses or Essenes, I remember that distinctly. I think just saw a few small fragments of the "on-tour" scrolls and that was all that stuck in my head. Plus I had just been at the Thirsty Bear for three hours...
Actually, I saw the Dead Sea scrolls in SanFran a long time ago and they weren't about the old testament. They were a similar god-like story that could fit most religions of the time. ---
Slashdot Mirror
I think the argument is the reverse of what your saying: Crusoe's power consumption isn't revolutionary since a 700 Mhz Crusoe roughly equals the performance of 300 MHz PIII.
This shows the benefits of competition working in a market driven society: Transmeta forced Intel to offer a low-power chip, which they really had no reason to do until now. Of course, Intel's offering will basically demolish Transmeta b/c OEM sol'ns for PIII are off-the-shelf simple, not to mention a barrage of other concerns (reliability, market proven, brand equity...)
---
please mod my post down. i just realized i was confusing two different efforts. i was wrong about the monk thing.
---
This sounds like a great idea, but I believe the Gutenberg project is committed effort run by monks. I'm by no means knocking the effort of the volunteers, but wonder if this is just a short-lived idea, or of there is significant enough funding/interest to keep this online indefinitely.
I mean, monks are known for keeping ritual alive for centuries/millenia... can an open-source/decentralized set of contributors do the same?
---
End Geek Profiling.
Simply call the # and report every student in all of your classrooms. Convince a few friends to do the same, and eventually, every student will be on the roster for investigation.
Granted, this sounds like that lame Spacey movie "Pay it Forward", it would definitely complicate the works.
---
fluffluffflufflufffluffluffflufflufffluffluff
I completely agree. The near-last bullet about using your right brain: "go wild, listen to that little voice inside" made me cringe. It was like some Oprah Winfrey moment, or a page from one of those little "Life's Little Book of Quotes" crap that they sell near the cash registers at bookstores.
---
Hey hey, I hug trees, eat tofu and think fur is stupid, but I'm way pro nuclear. And if you know anyone that is anti-nuclear because of the "pollution issue" just ask them what they would rather have:
a few hundred tons of nuclear waste that can be contained and monitored somewhere safe (like Nevaada),
or a few billion tons of fossile fuel waste dumped uncontrollabley into the oceans and spewed into the atmosphere.
Nevadans may hate the idea, but when normalized the power/waste ratio of nuclear plans is much higher than coal/oil and the waste output is a heck of a lot more manageable.
My $0.02.
And go easy on the Greens, a desire to breathe clean air isn't a stupid idea.
---
does everything have to end up looking like a honda civic these days? the person that buys this stuff must be the same kind of person that orders $10k worth of 'tricked out' aftermarket accessories for their $3k honda. what the fuck is the obsession with noisy, low-riding japanese cars? i soooo do not understand that trend. did i look this stupid with the pegged jeans and painted sleevless denim jacket that i wore when I was 14?
---
Looking at their datasheets, it doesn't make sense to put an athlon in a sever box when a p3 would use such less power and so much more reliable.
Athlon (1.2) P3 (1.0)
Pmx 66 26 W
Ta 42 45 C
Tj 95 70 C
Vcc 1.75 1.7 V
c/s no-dp yet i840
First, 66 vs 26 Watts is a big difference, especially given city power grid issues on the west coast.
Second, Ta is the temperature the OEM must keep at 3mm above the die. 42 is _very_ hard to keep for a 66 W part and requires a real sol'n. Most sol'ns I've seen from OEMs are less then adequate, but they don't have to be too fancy because typical desktop PCs can be a low cost sol'n. A server part would need to spend way more $$$ for an AMD part than Intel.
3rd & 4th. Tj is the max temp the die can run at at that frequency. This number is usually increase to hit higher frequency targets. As Tj increase, electromigration becomes a huge issue. EMigration is the deteriation of the metal contacts on the die, which directly translates into MTBF. If intel can run 1GHz at a whopping 25C LESS than AMD, that says something about intel's reliability and reduced cost to cool.
(Side note: compare these temp/pwr numbers then compare the cooling sol'n seen in OEM boxes: they're usually the same for AMD/intel. Now ask yourself is Intel overconservative, or is AMD hoping their boxes last long enough for the next upgrade cycle?)
SO why did Sun go with Athlon? Don't know. Must be a political move to piss off Intel, esp. considering they plan to support IA64. Also odd b/c historically, Sun has always used Sparc processors and eschewed x86. Why the sudden change of heart? We'll see what kind of volume they do on this box. It may be just political move.
---
This really isn't intended for the technophile, it is a transition vehicle that enables three different technologies: keyboard, pad and touchscreen, ultimately weaning luddites from their fear of PCs/PDAs. Perhaps this is the logical transition point between laptop and PDA (subnotebooks are a failure IMHO).
The pad is the key component because you can always drop back and scribble if your windows crashes, giving a sense of security. Plus, it's in a nifty package, so you don't have to fumble a laptop AND a pad of paper.
Plust the flexibility of using just the touch screen is what I've been longing for. I used PenWindows and a backlit Wacom pad back in 93 and fell in love with it, then it died a horrible costly death. Hopefully it will be reborn soon by devices like this.
For me, there isn't a program fast enough yet that I can use to go from mind to screen. Even visio isn't fast enough... Sometimes I even drop into notepad or paint, but they still can't compete with pen/paper for rapid thought.
---
Interesting that Israel falls under tier 3, but Intel owns a plant there. Doesn't this screw up the restrictions if an American company abroad can exceed the limitations of T3, but the products aren't actually imported to the US?
Anybody know what the export distinction is in this case?
---
I think the explosion of geek t-shirts as a mode of expression and a symbol of being part of the geek world has arisen largely within the last few years due to online shopping and the rush of coolness associated with obscure slogans, or *gasp* source code on your T-shirt.
Most shirts made prior to this cultural rush were internal shirts made for product launches (team morale), or promotional shirts from early trade shows. Those would be very interesting indeed -- not the nth-million Mozilla shirt. Big yawn. The site only had one T from pre 1990. Not very exciting.
I've got National Computer Camps t's from the mid-80's. Anyone else go to NCC, back when there were only 2 campsites (national my ass!
My company had an oldest product T-shirt contest a few years back. Somebody won with a shirt from the 80s... pit stains and all!
---
I'm making all three of those statements. The attitidue is evil because its existence justifies the 'human nature' response. I feel messages like this are dangerous. Like Sherwin Williams' "Cover the Earth" logo, with a can of paint covering the globe. To me, that's a dangerous message to people who don't take the time to think objectively. The same goes for the shameless promotion of SUVs and high-power yet inefficient engines. There's a huge market for glamorizing waste exploited all over the place.
//e. Now I work for an x86-centric company, and have used PC's since the early 80's because I couldn't afford a Mac. Yet I've always considered Apple to be a thinktank leftist artistic movement in the corporate PC environment. I know, I know, Apple is trying to make a profit just like everyone else, but they've always been so upper-class about it, where IBM, Dell, Gateway, etc, all seem so lo-brow. To see Apple try to cater to lowbrow markets is what bothered me. "Think Different" is intellectually, environmentally and politically significant (albeit grammatically incorrect). "Power to Burn" is so WWF.
Now on to Apple. First, as stated by another post, Apple is very energy star compliant. Credentials: I have always been a fan of Apple, and learned on an early
---
Yes yes. x86 machines are hot hot hot, and the G4 cube doesn't even have a fan! When will we ever see THAT on x86. But I wasn't talking about power consumption of the CPU, just the overtones of the statement itself irked me.
---
Titanium. How odd. I wonder if it can stop a 9mm slug, or if it will cause problems in airport security?
---
Titanium Chassis?
"Power to Burn"?
Apple has always been a vehicle for pseudointellectuals (and trendy artists) to strut elitism through material possessions. Now Apple is blatantly reflecting the rash overconsumption of Americans. A titanium chassis? What a waste of a rare metal. "Power to Burn"? Ironic at a time when the west coast is suffering an energy crisis brought on by their own greed and glut. I know he is referring to CPU processing power, but it just smacks of gluttony: we've got sooo much power we can just waste it and waste it and waste it...
I wonder of the ultrahip mac zealots paid any mind to this contradiction?
---
OO isn't fun for boys because it requires too much foreplay. 99% of 'em just wanna charge of to the clitoris and hack hack hack.
The way I sees it, OO philosophy splits effort 80/20: 80% on planning, documenting, philosohpy, interface, roadmap (compatbility fwd/bckwd)etc. --20% is actually writing code.
Granted one could argue that any good coding effort requires the above, however on projects I've work (C/x86-asm), 30% is spent deciding what to do, and 70% of the time is spent designing and coding simultaneously. Which can work, b/c procedural coding is immediately gratifying, whereas intelligent OO requires much more foreplay, er, planning.
---
Duh, my bad. Thanks for clarifying. I had just finished computing power consumption of a 64-bit inverting I/O buffer on this here project, so my mind was in a different context and I thought I could start a good fight.
---
Huh?
It is common practice to use inverted logic in signaling (0=1,1=0) to reduce switching times in cmos circuits or reduce power consumption or transmission capacitance by keeping signal lines charged.
'Setting' and 'clearing' are entirely semantic, so what point are you trying to make exactly?
---
hmmm, I wonder what percentage of those 11,650 are dangerous to your health to be at? (e.g. mountain pass in the Andes, back alley in Kuala Lumpur...)
---
too bad they aren't taking panoramic shots, then you could do node-based virtual tours of the planet's topography (topology?).
But the distance between degree longitude at the equator is fairly huge (looking at my globe) compared with the poles. Either way, its a step in the right direction.
I just hope people don't leave too many geocaches of garbage lying around in the woods.
---
Oh joy, more beautiful people portraying hackers.
Ever since the dashing Matthew Broderick hacked W.O.P.R., hollywood has just fawned all over them lovable nerds. When are we going to see some real computer geeks depicted the way they really look (besides the "Mr Potato Head! Back doors are NOT secrets" duo). For every dozen Keanu Reeves and Sandra Bullock flicks, there needs to be at least one "Revenge of the Nerds" to really nail reality of it.
And don't none of you purdee pierced gothy gen-y Linux dorks start emailing me pictures of your beautiful hairless chins, I believe you.
---
Is it 9ft tall, but is 3' of it underground? perhaps that is what keeps it from falling over and squashing the little child in the photo... not that that wouldn't be cool... but still.
---
Ah, that's right. I don't think they had the major scrolls at the '94 DeYoung exhibit, most were just tiny (3"x5") square snippets lying in glass cases. The stories they told weren't associated with anything about Moses or Essenes, I remember that distinctly. I think just saw a few small fragments of the "on-tour" scrolls and that was all that stuck in my head. Plus I had just been at the Thirsty Bear for three hours...
---
No shit. I agree. And Wolf3d came from Beyond Castle Wolfenstein, which followed Castle Wolf...
The original Wolfenstein had a RANDOM DUNGEON long before Diablo.
C'mon, blastin' those SS with grenades kicked ass!
---
Actually, I saw the Dead Sea scrolls in SanFran a long time ago and they weren't about the old testament. They were a similar god-like story that could fit most religions of the time.
---