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Lord of the Rings and Hype
tenchiken writes "Lord of the Rings finished principle shooting this last week - trailer is online . It is supposed to be be shown in theatres in two weeks before Thirteen Days, which starts Jan 12th. By most reports, PJ's (Peter Jackson) direction of Tolkien's masterpiece should truly be amazing. Also, Tolkien recently won the Amazon.com's "Best of the Millennium" award. (Which I have to admit is a crock, given every single book in the top ten was writen this century).
The online trailer has already blown away TPM's records for most downloads. It seems to be getting a fair amount of international press as well. USAToday recently ran a good report on it Here.
."
If I recall- most of what I heard about the movie- I heard about from the Net. Wasn't it until the movie had gotten such a "hip" buzz to it from the net that the traditional media started covering it? As I recall- that was the P.R. strategy of the production company- build online buzz- reap profit.
Though admittedly I never saw the movie... no LOTR will be like a religious experience for me so I might be more than a little predjudiced.
In illa quae ultra sunt
The Bible's a lot older than that, so
Is it? I know the Torah goes back 4k years in it's original form, but I thought that the New Testament, and the majority of the translations only popped up in the past 1k years or so.
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HE DIDN'T WRITE BOOKS!
;-)
So he scribed his plays on the backs of sheep or bananas? Of course he wrote books you idgit!
If you mean "novels", they've been around since 1st century AD (Satyricon by Petronius).
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TE was only a part of the problem, but a big one. It wasn't about merchandising. In fact, they were actually set to make money and had been making a profit lately. But the buildup of it all and the aggressive pushing by TE caused an overnight stumble that they couldn't possibly recover from. If TE had laid off, they would have moved forward and began a very profitable season with the redesign of both of their major systems which were starting to really sell well just before "the fall".
Ah, the good 'ol days.
Not to mention... the selections were done by vote of Amazon customers. How many modern americans have read L'Morte d'Arthur(spelling?)? How many have read any Mark Twain outside of school? Not many. Now, if this had been a board of academics from multiple institutions that came up with the same choices it would be dumb, especially Harry Potter.
I definitely agree with your view... for different reasons, though your reasons are valid.
I hope, despite the fact that I am very happily NOT christian, that the reason for the Bible not being there was that all the people realized the individual books were written well before the current millenium. But with the harry potter in there, I'd have to say its probably because they simply dont' care. Like it or not, no single book has had more influence on human history than the Bible. Despite its origins in the first millenium AD and prior, it probably should qualify for most influential book in the world for this millenium, as it didn't gain its truly unreal level of cultural momentum until this millenium.
They had more downloads only because you couldn't save their trailer to HDD, you had to download it every time you wanted to watch it.
I have seen the TPM trailer million times and have never downloaded it from www.starwars.com (or apple.com or whatever).
-jfedor
Yes, the story is universal and loved by many but in today's society, USA atleast, the played down roles of women would have been attacked, most likely. By giving Arwen a bigger role the producers can appeal to more people but hopefully stay true to story.
The part I love is that they brought in language experts to teach the actors Tolkien Elvish! There are even rumors of subtitles being used. Considering this was one of the main reasons that Tolkien began the books I find it amazing and heartening that the movies are truly attempting to stick with the story and world so closely.
overemphasizing Aragorn and Arwen's love story).
Be ready for it. W/o a romantic slant, there's no real chick-appeal to it (except for all the SCA chicks that will see it b/c they are by default cooler than the Titanic-loving girliegirls). However, the end of TheRetOfTheKing drags on forever (IMO), so maybe they just shoehorned in a liv story, er, love story for completeness.
I swear, if they manage to invent a Jar Jar character, heads will roll.
What I fear most is the impending onslaught of Taco Bell Cups, Burger King Watches, McDonalds glasses, Target POS displays, and all the action figures and shit we're going to have to endure for the next 5 years.
Then there will be the "Collectors Edition" rerleases of all things Tolkein. And lets not forget the Platinum series DVDs which will arrive just in time for Christmas 2004, and then the rerelease of this trilogy again in 2014.
Marketing frightens me.
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You can't expect a child of today to waste hours and hours of their life plodding through a book.
Reading a book, even those of relatively low quality, almost always is superior to watching someone else's interpretation of a book on screen. Reading requires more imagination, thought, and focus than watching most films. Reading is seldom, if ever, a "waste."
I own more than a dozen Piers Anthony books (Incarnations of Immortality, Xanth, Cluster, Bio of a Space Tyrant, and other series), and have read at least a dozen others. But great literature, they ain't. Furthermore, I can't imagine that any filmmaker would do a quality job of producing many, if any, of the Piers Anthony works -- they'd play up the sex and violence and play down the social satire, puns, and curious mix of liberal and conservative political philosophy that make his work so much fun to read.
We also need the second half of both Watership Down and the Neverending Story to be finished.
I've also read the original English-language translation of The Neverending Story in hardback (red and green -- not black -- ink!). While I agree that The Neverending Story is an amazing book -- one of my all-time favorites -- the movie sucked. The sequels sucked worse (I've got kids, so I've seen 'em, too). The second half? You've got to be kidding.
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Although the book is about a man's erection, and there is plenty of sex, the only thing that comes close to 69 is when Slothrop nose fucks that 12 year old.
That would be like saying a particular copy of Trachiniae is eligible for best book of the decade because it was translated from a manuscript discovered in 1991!
Besides, The Bible is only a revised edition of the Torah; It hasn't been eligible for best book of the last thousand years since man invented bronze.
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Um....dude... it was the Best 10 of the Millenium.
:)
The Bible's a lot older than that, so most people (except you, evidentally) would not consider it to be eligible for the list.
I guess you're also mad because "Abbey Road" and "Dark Side of the Moon" weren't included in everyone's "Best of the 90's" lists, eh?
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Admittedly, TE is a gang of thug^H^H^H^Hlawyers, but the principle cause for ICE's demise was being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The game market shifted, causing ICE to file BK, just as TE realized that LoTR:TM would be a huge moneymaker. If ICE had been profitable those couple of years, they would still have the LoTR gaming rights.
But overall this may be a Good Thing(tm). MERP != LoTR. It's not even close. The way it was going, MERP was tarnishing the image of LoTR...
1) Much of MERP is at complete odds with LoTR. For example, Tolkien magic is very rare and performed only by immortals. But MERP magic is quite common, and more than one module has had magic using hobbits.
2) The ICE vision of Middle Earth was becoming too detailed. Where Tolkien painted with a broad brush, ICE ironed out every detail right down to what color socks the Dunlending wore. Normally this wouldn't have been a problem, but all too many people were starting to view ICE's particular version of Middle Earth as the only correct one.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
Actually, William Morris (most famous for his
founding of the Arts and Crafts movement and,
oddly, his Socialism) probably invented epic
high fantasy as we know it today, with The
Well at the World's End.
Chris Mattern
First non-English (origin, at least) book is 26th? What about War and Peace (#18)?
If they went page-by-page, the movie would run approximately 32.4 hours!
;-)
And what, exactly, would be the problem with that?
Steven King has had numerous mini-series that have exceeded 12 hours of crap (Tommyknockers, It, and the awful version of The Stand), and all we get is six hours out of the ultimate fantasy story?
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Some of the translations are more recent than 1,000 years, but the original greek is older. And the Old testament is much older than 1,000 years. The dead sea scrolls, which were only copies of the original documents, written on leather and descovered in 1947, are over 2,000 years old.
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FYI, you can read it on the Web via Project Gutenberg (use a search engine).
A couple of other influential pre-Tolkien books (though not so early as Morris's 1896) are -
- Lord Dunsany's[*], The King of Elfland's Daughter, 1924, didn't like it.
- E.R.Edison's The Worm Ouroboros, 1926, one of my all-time favorites, though somewhat twisted for common tastes.
And then there's Tolkien's direct influences, the Norse myths and sagas, some of which come across as very simarillionesque. I just finished Hrolf's Saga Kraki, and though parts of it bordered on the lame, parts were quite charming, and not unlike modern fantasy (a sword that could only be drawn thrice, etc.). The Lay of Volund in the Poetic Edda is well worth looking up, abeit somewhat grim (somehow reminiscent of Tolkien's Unfinished Tales -- a very good book itself, BTW).Beyond that there's always the Illiad and Odyssey, the latter being more accessible to the modern reader, and very much like a modern fantasy in some regards.
But if you want to sup with the gods, you have to read something rather newer, Jack Vance's Lyonesse trilogy (The Green Pearl, volume II, being my all-time favorite book). You can wash the trilogy down with some rip-roaring tales from his two books about Cugel, which have just been re-released in a thick paperback with the early & influential The Dying Earth and the rather erratic Rhialto the Marvellous. It's worth picking up just for the two Cugel books included in it. I believe the volume is called Tales of the Dying Earth, and is in the stores now.
[*] His actual name was Edward John Moreton Drax Plunkett.
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Aragorn: Liam Neeson
Arwen: Kate Winslet
Theoden: Sean Connery
Denethor: Patrick Stewart
Elrond: Peter O'Tool
Galadrial: Ursula Andrews (back in '70)
Legolas: ?
Gimli: ?
Eowyn: Lucy Lawless ? (blond, of course)
Eomir: Cary Elwes
Faramir: Kenneth Branagh
Boromir: Mandy Patinkin
Hobbits: ?
Saruman: Nigel Terry (Merlin in Excalibur)
Gandalf: Alec Guinness (one can dream, can't they?)
I drank what? -- Socrates
Here
the low-browing of culture makes me absolutely want to vomit sometimes.
Highbrow culture makes me want to vomit even more. There's nothing worse than using elitism to show how much better one is than his/her peers.
"First you gotta do the truffle shuffle."
Some of those books on the list were
TRANSLATIONS
of foreign books.
But I completely agree with you.
Than again, why should Amazon target foreigners? They don't spend nearly as much money on stupid impulse items. I didn't think foreigners needed to be told what to buy (via Top10 lists) like Americans. Be glad that foriegn works aren't there, it would just cheapen them.
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there is no doubt lord of the rings is going to kick ass.. look at the trailer..
however.. yeah the amazon award for best book is sortof bunk. its top ten doesnt reflect its milleniumal decision
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Mein Kampf had little real effect. A fake autobiography of Adolph Hitler, which never saw any real dissemination outside of the Fascist ranks until the 1960's really had little effect on governments..
Perhaps 'Das Kapital' or 'The Communist Manifesto' would be better choices..
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They cut Tom Bombadil. I also have certain reservations about some of the casting, but I do have to applaud the choice of director. Plus Christopher Lee should be in 7th heaven playing Saruman (let's hope he doesn't overdo it).
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Actually, I saw the Dead Sea scrolls in SanFran a long time ago and they weren't about the old testament. They were a similar god-like story that could fit most religions of the time.
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ICE was using copyrighted material. If they piss off the copyright owner in how they use them the copyright owner has every right(unless specifically signed away) to fight back against this. If you could post a link to impartial reporting on that issue, I might be inclined to agree with you, but cannot without further information on how the squabble started.
Besides... When you have a system so complex you have to take breaks in character creation to sleep, and thats when you are making a simple random character(not the BESM character I am making who won't be done for several days yet and several of my WoD characters that need more detailing) there is something wrong. I don't miss rolemaster. When I picked up some used MERP books I could see why, despite the popularity of Toliens works, MERP was not nearly as popular as other games. The system sucked much ass.
> Also, there is a popular theory that he never really existed, and the plays attributed to "Shakespeare" were written...
...by another playwright with the same name?
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I just wish I could be 12 years old again, so I could read the book all over again. (My favourite scene is in The Hobbit, where Baggins and the Wizards are planning their journey and blowing multi-coloured smokerings over the surrounding countryside;) I can't wait!
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It'd remain true to parody form if they did a Bored of the Rings movie shortly after LotR comes out. Sounds like a Steve Martin project...
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Something nice to hear concidering how every other good book gets ruined when the movie is made.
Just three more hours seapeople and you can finally take me away from this crappy God Damned planet full of hippies
There's a lot of people complaining that epics like The Iliad and books of that era aren't included in this list... but the list is for books printed in the past 1000 years, which those were not.
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I know this won't be as horrible as Dungeons and Dragons reportedly is (I'm not even going to bother ever watching that one) -- but I'm usually wary of having my appreciation of a good thing damaged because the last interpretation of it was unsatisfactory or even rediculous.
On the flip side, I have seen a few trailers over the last few months and it does look very exciting. But that's what I thought after watching the BattleField Earth trailers, too -- and look what that turned out to be (again, another film I have not watched but have heard enough reviews of to know it isn't worth my time).
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How come chicks kate D&D so much? Every personal ad I see asks for d&d free boyfriends. So what if I played a little d&d as a teenager, does that make me unsuitable for a mate?
No. I'm trying to tell you that if someone pulls 10 random titles out of their ass (and that's pretty much what an Amazon poll is, isn't it?), those titles are likely to be 20th Century. And it's not due to 20th Century bias; it's due to 20th Century being many times more prolific.
They are outnumbered by an avalache of authors who, due to technology, have more idle/leisure time in which to write, and tools that help them write. For every 19th century person who had time to write a book, there's a thousand of us today who can compete with them.
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Fortunately, Peter Jackson and his production company have almost completely severed ties with the Hollywood hype jugernaut. This has allowed him to film at a pace to create 3 beautiful films, without a bunch of execs screaming at him every day because they accidentally started promo work two years early.
But from friends in the PR industry, there are advertising campaigns lined up for a push starting in June, then a big ramp up about September. There are going to be a lot of tie-ins with book sellers, to give people a some time to buy the books, read them, and form some ideas about the scope of the 3 movies.
the AC
Hemos is like...sci-fi fans;he thinks technology is cool, but he hasn't bothered to understand the science it's based on
As much as I like... or even more... love, this book, I think it is going to be hard to make a movie that satisfies everybody.
It is not a book that translates very well to the movie language.
Tolkien's books immerses the reader in a world of imagination, magic and fantasy... all those in its mind. The problem of the movie is that they have to show the directors point view... so there is less room for the viewer's imagination.
Also, in the LOTR Tolkien states Aragorn-Arwen relationship in a paragraph. And that's it... In literature, specially if its epic, you can get away with : "Their love was eternal and pure... move on"
In a movie that is not going to work. If Aragorn's love is an important feature of his personality they have to develop it in a convincing way. And it is obvious it is. Aragorn's love for Arwen (at least the way I interpret the book) is the one of Aragorn's main motivations to fulfill his destiny (become a king, and therefore be able to marry her)...
Emphasizing the love story can be a good resource to tell this story. I'd wait and see.
Those of you who haven't found it already, a quasi-mirror of this trailer can be found at lordoftherings.net.
As I said... I briefly browsed over the list. One might have skipped through.
National Lampoon's Middle Earth Vacation, Starring Chevy Case.
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Yea, because everyone knows that Atlas Shrugged is the greatest book ever written.
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Very true what you say about shakespeare. However, considering he WAS rated #16 in that poll (click the see all top 100 link), its obvious that he was included in the roundup.
"Moving through the masses like a fish through water." syrup
Am I the only one who hasn't read these books?
I'm trying ot check for myself, but it seems all 12 million other slashdot users have beaten me to the punch.
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Supposedly it will be attached to the Cuban missile crisis film "Thirteen Days in October" with Kevin Costner - I don't have a link handy, but the rumor has been on a bunch of different web sites such as theonering.net and darkhorizons.
InThane
the Illiad, the Oddessy
:)
It's amazing how some people just don't get the "Millenium" part of the "Best Books of the Millenium" thing.
What year were the Illiad and the Oddyesy written it? It's funny how you're bashing the Amazon voters for their lack of knowledge/taste, but they apparently know a key fact about the Homer's works and other ancient works that you don't. Either that or they're just better at math.
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okay look folks. it's a movie. it's not going to be nearly as thorough as the book, this should be obvious to anyone. things must be changed even if only slightly so that there isn't an hour of dialog and marching. while this doesn't appear to have been targetted at a specific market (ie elemetary school kids), it will be targetted specifically at the majority of the population, which has the attention span of a tack.
i've always enjoyed discussing interpretations of certain events within the books with other people, and this will be a great oppurtunity to see someone elses highly budgeted interpretation. i don't expect it to be entirely accurate. i do however expect to shiver in my seat atleast once from the roar of the music and detail combined with cinematography in certain battles. i expect to be wowed by the amount of detail and time someone has spent to make their interpretation come true.
i see it not so much as a "translation" or different work, but like a painting of the book. the artist may not remember all of the scenes and characters. he likely won't paint a scene from one of the more passive areas in the book. it will instead be used to enhance portions of the book by some people. others will obviously prefer the original without the added interpretation. i will enjoy the extra detail, but reserve the right to criticize differences in interpretation. i won't, however, be disappointed as Tolkien had nothing to do with this work, it is nothing more than an interpretation. they don't have Carl Sagan to fax drawings and ideas to like for the movie Contact (atleast the portion he was alive for).
expect differences. however, instead of slamming it or being disappointed, use it to enhance the sections where Tolkiens detail is lacking, so long as the interpretations are similar to your own. the detail on the houses or the hobbit holes and possibly even the accents. it's like your best friend, who happens to be a painter, painting scenes from it and taking certain liberties in the interpreations for the sake of his artwork and target audience.
Not to mention "Farewell to the Master", the short story that was in its own way a whole lot cooler than The Day the Earth Stood Still.
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
The Dead Sea scrolls contain portions of all five Books of Moses (which certainly qualifies it for the oldest Biblical manuscripts) and some of the writings of the Essenes sect.
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Yep, that's what the book says. 12/1/97 "Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer do........"
How can it ever match what I imagined when I read the books the first time?
I also know that it's going to be disconcerting when I'm watching the movie and they pronounce names and places differently than the way I pronounced them in my head.
Nevertheless, I'm sure I'm going to see it when it first comes out, and I'll try not to bring too many preconcieved notions of how I would have done it...
Waltz, nymph, for quick jigs vex Bud.
I heard they were coming out with a real theatrical trailer soon, and thanks for getting my hopes up that this was it, moron.
While keeping this in mind its much more easier to understand why international userbase of amazon has voted Tolkien to the top10 list, agreed ?
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Harry, unfortunately, seemed to have come down with a case of "greek freak." Gone go any helpful or constructive criticisms. Or indeed any real look into some serious issues most fans have about certain rumored and established revisions (lots of corny dialouge, Xen-Arwen, the death of Saruman before he has a chance to play his quite important part in the Scouring of the Shire- one of the most important elements of the entire story). Maybe we'll get a more nuanced look later, but I found his ejaculations a little irritating from someone who claims to be a sophisticated movie buff. Oh, and besides the Matrix NOT being a blank slate (it's based on a previous comic series), I can hardly see how it qualifies as the greatest movie of all time. Yeah, it's a fun little flick, but people who take it too seriously really scare me.
Except that no serious person these days thinks they were written by Moses, or even written immediately indirectly from him.
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Gawd... no wonder there are so many trolls on Slashdot. With so many touchy, reactionary people, it must be like shooting fish in a barrel!
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
They barely put Billy Barty into the ground, and already his coffin is spinning.
Damn, where's Warwick Davis when you need him? ;-)
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Ah, that's right. I don't think they had the major scrolls at the '94 DeYoung exhibit, most were just tiny (3"x5") square snippets lying in glass cases. The stories they told weren't associated with anything about Moses or Essenes, I remember that distinctly. I think just saw a few small fragments of the "on-tour" scrolls and that was all that stuck in my head. Plus I had just been at the Thirsty Bear for three hours...
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Don't know what they have in fact done, so this is all speculation, but:
Arwen's character may have been introduced early to flesh out Strider's character in the first movie. In the books, Strider's history is learned slowly, but there is no mistaking that he is an important figure -- something that may be lost onscreen without some kind of flashback or other device to introduce his history and connection with Rivendell and Elves.
Pointing out the obvious... these are more than 1000 years old.
Bram's Dracula is probably one of the most popular works EVER, yet it doesn't appear on the list.
Agreed... why this is missing and Harry Fucking Potter made it is beyond me...
Also missing is ANYTHING by Dickens, Fitzgerald, Defoe, or Stevenson, or Hemingway. But I guess Tale of Two Cities and Great Expectations (which are required reading in U.S. grade and junior high schools, I believe) just dont rank up there with the "Harry Potter phenomenon."
Agreed on Hemingway, but Dickens!? The man was paid by the word, and it shows. Pure tripe. ;)
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This is the first trailer. How in God' sname did this post get moderated up?
: )
Fair enough.
No bite on my anti-Hemmingway troll?
:)
(Actually, that was one of the topics at Christmas dinner. Weird family.)
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
The Bible is a little more than a revised edition of the Torah; the New Testament is a completely new set of books! And, if you have a Catholic Bible, you have even more!
On a different note, I think the Bible should NOT be considered for book of the millennium, but that the KJV should; the KJV, while a translation of the original text (in a roundabout sort of way), turned the Bible into a really long poem, which the Bible certainly was NOT intended to be. In short, the KJV is a related but separate work, which occured during this millennium.
If you want to really split hairs about it, the translations, which are probably marginally different from the original text, were made this millenium:)j/k
okay..so i wasn't thinking there. point taken. however, i still stand by every other statement i made in my original post. there are a number of books and authors which were not represented, or represented so lowly as to point to a distinct moron-factor in the poll users.
"Moving through the masses like a fish through water." syrup
Because they are in it to make money, not create an epic for the ages. Very few people would pay $80 to watch a 32 hour movie. If you make it a made for tv event, not many more will watch it, (compared to a Stephen King or Daniel Steele) and the production qualities will equal those of Zena Princess Warrior.
Got to make tough choices. I don't like them either but I can understand.
- I like pudding.
I hope it isn't as good as the D&D movie.
*COUGH*
AICN has a great piece covering Harry's trip to the set in New Zealand. This link is to the index, which has a conclusion, and then a link to each of the ten other articles that he wrote.
To summarize, he lavishes praise on the director, costumers, actors, effects people, etc. and says that the only down side was a bit of bad food that he got one day. This is Harry, and he's prone to hyperbole (espcially when he wants to like something), but he's very specific in these artciles, and I'm at least impressed with the apparent attention to detail for Gandolf (the Gray/White).
Here's hoping, but of course, there's no way I can be as pleased with it as I was with The Matrix. Not because The Matrix was a better film (we'll see), but because that was the one movie that was furthest from my expectations. No matter what happens, the best Jackson can do is bring The Lord of the Rings as I've already read it, to life. That's a tall order, but in general I'm more impressed when someone starts with a blank slate and suprises me.
Anyway. Go read, download the trailer and start your countdown timers!
I'll stand by all of your other points too. :-)
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Second, sure. I just can't put it about the complete works of william shakespere. im not even going to mention harry potter......
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a pretty large part of the story is based upon the Good Guys STEALING
The only people who ever accuse the "good guys" of stealing are the "bad guys" - Gollum/Smeagol, for instance. Remember that the Ring seemed to have a will of its own, going where and to whom it chose.
Then what about all the bloodshed and killing
Remember where the Ten Commandments come from? Yeah, it's that really bloody part of the Bible known to some of us as "The Old Testament". Really, it should be translated "you shall not murder," because God obviously sanctioned killing during wars.
Really, the main characters in LOTR are quite virtuous by anyone's standards. Sam is the only person in the group who really wants Smeagol dead, and even he doesn't have the heart to kill him, although he "deserved" it. Gandalf refuses to take the Ring for himself, even as a freely given gift. Aragorn won't even marry Arwen without her father's consent. And as for killing, come on now, who among you wouldn't stick a dagger in the throat of a blood-crazed orc?
And actually even having the same name is not really any crutch. I know I have seen more expamples but the only one that I can think of now is The Patriot ... starring Steven Segal! Oh yeah!
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Agreed. I see a lot of disappointment among "internet fans" when this film does "okay" at the box office, a far cry away from the cultural phenom they predict. I expect "Spiderman" to do a lot better...
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How could a corporately manufactured piece of shit like the Beatles be considered for anything other than the greatest marketing scheme pushed on pre-pubescent females.
Oh. Whoops.
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See, allegedly, one of the reasons they changed the title of Star Wars Episode VI to Return of the Jedi was that it was to come out around the same time as Star Trek II, which had the working title Revenge of Khan ... perceived as a conflict with the working title Revenge of the Jedi.
Sly joke, rather mild, but very inside.
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I wish I had the satiristic talents to continue with this thread. Oh well. I guess I'll leave it to better minds than mine...
p.s. Only a hardcore reader would know who Phillip K. Dick was and that his short story (novella?) was the basis for Bladerunner. I'll bet that Trevor even knows the name of the story...)
Waltz, nymph, for quick jigs vex Bud.
JRR was Catholic to the core and highly judgemental? Sorry, but the two are mutually exclusive.
Whatever happened to "Judge not lest ye be judged" and other such instruction from the bible, hmm?
As for the LOTR saga "promoting Catholicism and the Ten Commandments", then how do you explain that a pretty large part of the story is based upon the Good Guys STEALING, hmm (Thou shalt not steal)?
Then what about all the bloodshed and killing (Thou shalt not kill)?
Nope, sorry, you need to try harder if you are going to make a convincing troll, I'm afraid.
--
People should not be afraid of their governments - Governments should be afraid of their people.
I've always wondered in what stage of the process the films cinematography transcends phony to the surreal image we see on the screen. I'm sure slashdot can answer...
I usually see a religious preference, non-smoker, that kind of thing, but D&D??? Weird.
Seriously? Well, in that context D&D means "Drugs & Disease"
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Some people have a way with words, and some people, um, thingy.
Thats obsurd. Unless there is a movie called "Return of the King" there is no point in changing it. Hell take your pick as to the return movies:
Return of the Jedi
Return of the Dragon
Return to me
whatever....
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
How can you complete shooting of a movie a week ago and get the thing edited, copies made, and distribute it all for a theatrical release in a matter of days? This does not compute.
"If I have seen further than other men, it is by stepping on their glasses." - Michael Swaine
In reading about the movie before, I did read that nearly the entire original story line would be included in the movie. I seem to remember somtething about slight deviation with Aaragorn and Arwin in order to add a little femininity to the movie. As a betting man, I think it will be a great movie, but I am never too hopeful. I'm glad to hear the the director brought in the artists you mentioned, I really like Lee's work, in fact I just got a print of his for Christmas. That pleased me!
According to Amazon's Top 100 poll of great books:
Number 19: Left Behind
Number 20: Catch-22
Sweet suffering Jebus on a pogo stick... this is one sick civilization.
>I'm sure much more has been written this century than all previous centuries combined.
This is called hubris. Don't be "sure" of unresearched assumptions.
--Charlie
PS - Anyhoo Niccolo Machievelli's _The Prince_ was not written in the 20th century, and it ought to be in the millenial top 15. I mean seriously, the most famous manual of political/military/socialogical manipulation ranks lower than _Harry Potter_?
--C
... on January 12, 1997 at Champagne-Urbana?
Don't blame me, I voted for Durga.
I agree, Sortof bunk... but without the "sortof".
It keeps surprising me how strongly Americans think they are the center of the world.
World Series (beisball), World championship (football), Top X of anything.
It is all measured around what Americans can do or not.
In this "Amazon award for the best book" we have another example. I browsed quickly over the 100 books they have there. The first non english book comes in 26th position and there are only 11 in total.
In the www. there is included a "world wide", something that most companies keep forgetting. Although Amazon is an American company, they should keep in mind that they are not anymore living in the closed environment of their country, but in a WORLD WIDE community. They should act accordingly. English literature is just a very small percent of all what has been written in this last millenium.
Companies like Amazon should take advantage of this kind of awards and OPEN them to all the cultures and languages that this environment offers us.
What? Not a single 19th century CD? How dare they! Just because there is no such thing doesn't mean they should not be counted! ;-)
--
People should not be afraid of their governments - Governments should be afraid of their people.
WRT Tale of Two Cities and Great Expectation, perhaps it is the fact that most people were forced to read them during high-school that many people have a distaste for them. Perhaps we need to change the way we expose children to "the classics" instead of just declaming that "THESE ARE GREAT WORKS AND THOU SHALT READ THEM!!"
Hooptie
"Heavens, it appears that my weewee has been stricken with rigor mortis!" -- Stewie Griffin
dynamo
After seeing (and being very disappointed by) Star Wars : Phantom Menace, I would like for this to be good, but don't have a lot of hope...
Also, a mirror site would be nice. tolkienonline.com has melted down.
I'm sure much more has been written this century than all previous centuries combined. If you take a random sample of ten written works, from all the written works to date, they will likely have been written in the 20th Century. We had typewriters and computers back then.
So, whether you agree with their choices or not, it's not necessarily a crock that their favorite 10 of the millennium are all from a single century.
---
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
What about Dianetics? Surely one of the great bestsellers of all time!
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Culture is *not* being lowbrowed in any way.
In my opinion, probably the mean person is probably exposed to and seeks a higher quality of entertainment in the present era than in ancient times (Circus Maximus anyone?).
And just because some bookseller is hyping titles that are currently in the market's mind, readily sellable, currently in publication, DOES NOT MEAN FUCKING SQUAT. What Amazon says about literature means no more than a yellow and red suited clown expounding the virtues of sliced potatoes delicately cooked in a vat of boiling vegetable oil.
It's marketing. Grow up. The more you take them seriously, the more you encourage them.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Well I can't wait for the movie myself, I loved
the books, and it has to be better then The Hobbit,
the animated movie. Now I also wish
they would make that Middle Earth online
game now. They hype would of prolly carried over
into it.
I like the artwork of Howe and Lee because they do a better job of coming closer to what I feel is the "look" I've always imagined about these characters. That's why their artwork graced the last few Tolkien calendars. ;-)
:-)
Be very glad that the artwork of Tim and Greg Hildebrandt weren't the basis for the costume design!
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
All I can say is that I'm shocked Harry Potter? It was good but the number 5 book of the last 1000 years I think not. Backstreet Boys? People will not be talking about that one in 1000 years. Special Edition. Naw the first edition sure that should have been up there but of course it really should have been Empire. That list is just sad of course it tells us where we are at. So to sum up we have a world where everybody celebrates a century a year early because they can't count to 10 and then votes for crap like this as the "best" I think I'll be killing myself now. Bye all.
Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics. Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
What rollmaster needed, in my opinion, was a computer program to keep track of all the accounting, tables, and endless rolling and modifiers.
If you had a nice 486 sitting in the corner crunching numbers, you could have more time to spend actually role playing (not roll playing).
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
It appears we need mirrors for the trailer. Any suggestions would be appreciated, as I fail to see how more ppl can comment without actually seeing it (just a small observation).
Good of you to mention Piers Anthony. I can't decide if 'Hollywood' would be able to portray what i would like to see... the Xanth series. It could be such a wonderfull premise for a movie trilogy, but i have the feeling it would go the way of the made-for-tv 'Alice in Wonderland'. Don't get me wrong, i thought they did a wonderfull job with that, but following the same methodology with lesser-know stories such as Xanth, i don't think we would find the same dedication to quality. I just don't want to trust them with my entire jr-high fantasy.
"Ummmm..."
You say they finished principal shooting last week? But you say that it is going to come out onthe 30th of december (two weeks before the twelth). That would give them only a few days to re-shoot bad scenes, edit, and add special effects! Unless of course i mis-read something.
----------------------------------
Kind of like MTV showing the 'top 10 videos of the Millennium' last newyear's eve.
Yeah, that made a lot of sense... none of those videos made in the 1600's even compared to 'lucky star'!
There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.
I'm fairly disapointed, tho', that Arwen (Liv Tyler) is being given such a big part--she's even on the promo logo. I don't think they have to go with traditional 'pop' themes to make this film successful. (ie, overemphasizing Aragorn and Arwen's love story).
Democracy in American 1850ish (don't rmeember exact year), Uncle Tom's cabin (about the same), The Jungle by Upton Sinclair (1900s) all had huge effects on governments.
What about the federalist papers? Mein Kampf....
The problem is, that people definition of "best of the millinium" is limited by their own life.
Someday somebody's going to have to sit down and explain to me what the hell is so great about Great Expectations. I found it a dull, pointless, long winded, whiny diatribe. Tale of Two Cities was better, but not by much.
If you want to inspire children to read, give them C. S. Lewis and Madeleine L'Engle, not Charles Dickens and James "I've got your epiphany right over here, nelly boy" Joyce. High school literature classes DESTROY their subject.
And, popular or not, the Harry Potter books are the best young adult fiction since The Chronicles of Narnia.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
The only surprising thing is that Dianetics didn't appear just above or below Atlas Shrugged.
But he is in the top #100 on that site. He just, for some reason, did not get enough votes to get into the top #10.
btw: i wouldn't exactly characterize that theory as popular.
"Moving through the masses like a fish through water." syrup
What do you want? Either you like Hemmingway or you don't. 'Course, my getting into Hemmingway through the film "To Have and Have Not" colors my appreciation. I really like the movie as well as the novel, even though they're almost totally diffrent. The only saving grace for the movie is that Hemmingway had some input in the script.
I drank what? -- Socrates
Isn't that yseterday?
Ok, Ok. that was lame...
Actually, John was an apostle, and he wrote (obviously) the Gospel according to John, John 1 - 3, and Revelation. Most,if not all of Pauls letters begin with "Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle ....
While I'm here, might as well say that, according to a small flyer I recieved with a Hobbit gift-pack, the LotR movie itself won't be released until December 2001 (hell of a long wait). This might just be for australia, I'm not sure.
regardless, I still think it is a brilliant book (so's the bible! IMO)
Why yes, all my base are belong to you.
How did you guess?
I hope I'm not the only one who remembers this. Blair Witch had a huge underground following with a very well orchestrated campaign that had a lot of people wondering if it was real, or at least reading about the 'details' of the Blair Witch in eager anticipation of the movie.
There were very little movie trailers/previews used before the movie became such a box office hit. Just their website, and the newspaper clippings and short video clips that were posted to it under the guise of news. That has to be one of the best cases of "Internet Hype" used to its full extent.
I totally diagree. I've been waiting months for this and I'm excited to see it closer to completion.
How could making a movie make you memories worse?
Just don;t see it if you don't want to....
"declaming"?
perhaps you meant "proclaiming" or "declaring"?
eudas
Blessed is he who expects the worst, for he shall not be disappointed.
I don't know where you've been studying, but most respected historians and theologians, in point of fact, acknowledge Moses as the author of the Pentateuch, unless you read the views of the extreme liberalists, whose arguments for the "group of four authors" does not hold water against modern critique of the facts.
----
Celebrate the finer things in life
Shut up, be happy. The conveniences you demanded are now mandatory. -- Jello Biafra
--
--
You are a fucking moron.
Although those are all wonderful works, I should point out that none of those were written in the last 1000 years. Or the last 2000 for that matter.
ObJectBridge (GPL'd Java ODMG) needs volunteers.
Finding God in a Dog
Incidentally, I'd be delighted to discuss this subject of the authorship of the Pentateuch, or of any other historical documents for that matter, further with any interested parties. Email me, if interested.
----
Celebrate the finer things in life
Really the only reason this trailer had more download then TPM's is because you have to download it every time you watch it, unlike TPM's where you download it once and watch him 40 time ;) Just bringing the hype in to a little better perspective
One statement I'd like to make... The Lord of the Rings is the greatest book of all time in my humble opinion. About the movie... the trailer looks fine (i'm talking about the old one) but there is a problem.. american accents. Now Tolkien never explicitly stated that the characters spoke with a british accent. But for me.. american accents don't go well with these historical movies. Kevin Costner as Robin Hood was a real joke. They have got some British actors like Hugo Weaving and Ian Mckellen playing Elrond and Gandalf but Liv Tyler as Arwen and Viggo Mortensen as Aragorn ??? I don't know but I sure would hate to hear Aragorn saying "Arrrwen... I surre do Love ya " But one thing... American Accents sure would suit the orcs. Esp. a bit of a western accent.
>If they went page-by-page, the movie would run approximately 32.4 hours!
:)
So? Why it isn't divided to multiple movies like it's supposed to be (it's not a single book you know). Next similiar movie project I'd love to see would be Raymond E. Feists Riftwar Saga - again divided to multiple movies. And after that four movies of Serpentwar Saga
Microsoft? Is that some kind of a toilet paper?
Atlas Shrugged is also in their "Best of the Millennium"....
I guess that proves that the list is a joke.
NO CARRIER
Isn't striking a nerve what being an author is all about? Try this sentence on for size:
"Talk about C. S. Lewis over Shakespere (sic), get real...he only struck a nerve with kids and became famous over it."
That's what authors DO. That's what they're FOR. Just because something's popular doesn't mean it's not good.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
As much as I love LoTR (and I do), you are trying to tell me that certain books (the bible for instance) have not had a greater impact on world civilization then LoTR which "just" revitilized modern fantasy? (And even then, you can argue that Baum and Lewis were also critical to that).
Sorry, this offends my sensibilities a bit. What about books of chivilary, or UIncle tom's cabin?
It is divided, into 3 movies... one being released on christmas each year for the next 3 years.... yay, now i know where im spending the next 3 dec. 25's ahhh screw the family...
Shit adds up at the bottom...
Ok, I have to point out a technical problem with Amazon's list. I can almost gaurantee most of us have not read the great masterworks of human history, even the more popular ones like the Iliad. And to take into account books did not achieve their true status until say the 1800's amungst the common folk means you really only have 200 years of a serious story telling book industry to base this off of. Books from pre-incabula to the Industrial revolution were generally religious/scientific/medicinal in nature. Minus global exceptions like the Bible/Greek poems/etc, what was the last book of scribal origin you read that you can thinking of :) Not knocking readers as well, you can only read so much in one lifetime buy come on Amazon, what is with those (and the music/movie) lists! Talk about skew. J.K. Rowling over Shakespere, get real. You should have added a fad filter. Not knocking his work personally, but he only struck a nerve with kids and became famous over it. You get the point.
I dont understand what watching the trailer in a mirror would do? I tried it and it just made all the words backwards..."...lla meht elur ot gnir enO..."
"Lord of the Token Ring"
One MC to rule them all
One MC to find them
One MC to bring them all
And in the darkness bind them...
Mr. Bungle, Cirith Ungol
I kick the shit from here to the motherfuckin Jungle
Crazy shit from the top of my head
Cuz I write the rhymes that'll Raise the Dead
Watch your front when steppin' to me, cuz
I'll stab your ass, just for a free buzz
Death trippin', the blood steady drippin'
Gotta send a shout out to Sam, Frodo & Pippin
On a mission, straight Gortician
Talk some shit and in your face I'm pissin'
The funky plumber, comin' like a Hummer
Cuz you know High-C just gets Dumb and Dumber
At The Gates of Cirith Gorgor
Steppin straight into Mordor
I get wicked like Sauron, bringin' chaos to order
Break beat poet, for ten years I flow it
You can't tell me shit because I already know it
1 percenter, political dissenter
El Duce was my motherfuckin Mentor
Mind blowin', Angry Samoan
I get high and then the funk starts flowin'
You fuckin' zombies need to wake the fuck up
You think you're the shit but I think you suck
Weak-minded, you're blinded by the blight
Sayin' I'm Guilty of Being White
My ancestors didn't own no slaves
The whole tired argument is oh so played
Face facts, we all get taxed
But like Possessed I'm fuckin' swingin' the axe
Grindin' up sacred cows
And now you know High-C's in the motherfuckin house...
J00 think J00 can 0utrhyme m3?
Cross-Referenced and Hyperlinked at Everything2
Snuh Snuh Meow Gortician Meow Snuh
Get my free Hitchhiker's Guide Tribute Novella:
Aren't you?
tom
--
--
"Just believe everything I tell you, and it will all be very, very simple."
Yes, I will agree with the amount of press. When your local ISP puts a copy of the first trailer on a local server for users to download, yeah, it's getting around. But, talk to someone not on the I'net. They know very little to nothing about what looks to be a fantastic movie. One of the things about the Internet that I have found amazing is its ability to generate its own hype. All a production company has to do is put out one trailer here, one press release there, and it spreads like a wild fire. Free publicity. I guess it is a little early to be building up a movie for those who are disconnected from the digital world, but when they decide to start doing it, the hype will never reach the level it is experiencing now on the I'net. What's my beef? When you comment about the hype surrounding a movie, it should not be classified as I'net hype, or paper hype. Just like the Amazon thing, purely I'net hype.
Bryan R.
Bryan R.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, or $12.50 as seen on eBay.....
I own a copy of that book. Havn't read it though.
-kidlinux.
Who are you kidding? If the networks could get away with broadcasting a live Gladatorial combat to the death or a Lion eating some poor criminal they would do it like a shot - and they would find a ready audience too. Right now there is tremedous interest in so-called "real life events" and shows such as Cops have a strong audience.
I don't think our tastes are any more refined than that of the ancient Romans - its just that we are more restrained in what we permit the entertainment industry to broadcast.
"The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
Is this a NEW trailer, or is it the same one that has been out since May on lordoftherings.net? I guess that TolkienOnline must have been Slashdotted. If this is a new trailer, might someone put a link to a copy of it?
I recieved a spectacular collection of letters written by J.R.R. to his children (and his children's children) called Father Christmas Letters. Awesome. Perfect for getting into the "holiday mood" (and is, quite possibly, on sale now that the season is over). the book is full of the beutifull fantasy that Tolkien is famous for.
(even at 25MB, but that's why we've got multiple T1s at work, right?)
:)
actually, multiple t1s wont help you too much. the max download speed you can get is still 1.544Mb/s. tcp streams will only follow one path, and BGP will not help there. this is why a channelized ds3 (3Mb increments up to 45Mb) is so much nicer than multiple t1s. it _is_ a tad spendier however
signatures are for fools with hands
And first and second Peter, of course written by the apostle Peter, This actually means most of the New Testament was written by Jesus's apostles. Just thought I'd better add that.
Why yes, all my base are belong to you.
How did you guess?
The trailer which any real fans have seen most of off the site...is comming in the theatres on the 12 of January,2001...the film itself will be released on the 19th of December,2001 Was that a troll??
Yeah, I know there have been other movie versions in the past, but this'll be the first one with a huge budget and the level of effects movie goers demand nowadays. The reason I'm so happy about this is that it will allow the youth of today the chance to experience this timeless story, a story they may otherwise not be aware of because kids don't read anymore.
I really don't have a problem with kids not reading so much as I have a problem with not enough good old books being brought to the silver screen. You can't expect a child of today to waste hours and hours of their life plodding through a book. It was great for me 20 years ago, but it can't compete with a PS2, nor should it have to. We have evolved.
So, since it is obvious that books are a dying form, I believe we need to strongly encourage Hollywood to make more of the timeless classics into a format more conducive to being received by children in the 21st century. We need Asimov's entire Foundation series set to celluloid (ok, bits), and other quality work like Piers Anthony and the Dragon Lance stuff. We also need the second half of both Watership Down and the Neverending Story to be finished.
No, that was a good call. Unless of course you think William Shakespeare should take its rightful place behind Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone or (*shudder* - Ayn Rand).
How about Adam Smith's work? Now there's a work of genius. And he was correct, unlike Marx, Engels, Hitler, Lenin, Keynes, Roosevelt or any of the rest of that lot.
If they went page-by-page, the movie would run approximately 32.4 hours! Tom's a swell guy (and probably rolls a mean doobie), but decisions have to be made. Does anybody know if Ghan-buri-ghan (sp) is still in?
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
... Nevermind.
DCMonkey
I read this parody Bored of the Rings back in the early 80s. Hadn't thought about it until I read your post's title! Very funny stuff!
Moofie,
;-)
You hit it right on the nose.
I LOVE Joanne K. Rowling's works because it has a sense of imagination and wonder that is so seriously missing from most works of literature nowadays. In fact, I think Rowling's works will stand the test of time and will become classics within 30 years.
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
Have you checked out the Tolkien Archives? Its a cool site. It used to have pictures from Lee and nasmith, but I think copyright laws got in the way. Good place for pictures though, I've taken more than a few for wallpaper.
Why? Because they are well known today? I have to agree with the position that most of the books ever written to date were written this century. Just because a few western authors one to three centuries ago are well known does not necessarily mean they were the best books ever written.
In fact, Shakespeare didn't write books. I have always been offended by Literature's attempt to claim stage plays as 'literature'. If they are literature, so is the screen play 'Star Wars'.
It is supposed to be be shown in theatres in two weeks before Thirteen Days, which starts Jan 12th.
Worst sentence ever
My source in the movie industry, while not having seen it herself, says it's been made very clear to her that it's a brand new trailer.
blah.. test blah
--
Rob Kennedy
--
Rob Kennedy
http://linuxwriters.org
I have never read the book, but probably I will enjoy the film.
It happens all the time that people gets disappointed when seeing a film based on a book that they have read before, I bet most of you big fans of Tolkien will find the movie not as good as the book, and there will be a lot of important things missing.
But, you should not judge the movie comparing it to the book, different things.
Sometimes knowing the book helps you understand better the film; I just remember reading "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" after watching Blade Runner, and understanding it much better afterwards.
Lede,
Not to worry.
Director Peter Jackson -strongly- knows that in bringing Lord of the Rings to movie form, there will be a LOT of nit-picking and people expect VERY high standards of adherence to the book itself. That's why he hired John Howe and Alan Lee--two artists who did illustrations for Tolkien calenders in the last few years--as conceptual artists.
Besides, I am very impressed from the stills I've seen that Jackson got the depiction of the hobbits CORRECT. It is exactly what I imagine a hobbit looks like.
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
What is your point? Are you saying that the list may need a last minute modification?
---
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
LIV TYLER... EEEW. I hope that I can ignore her and still enjoy the Movie. I know that it will be great anyway.
Why did they have to go and do that, anyway?
I still trust that PJ will do a great job, but just thinking of that girl makes my stomach twist.
I think that she ruined Pluncket and McClaen (SP?)
Yup, I believe that was the one...
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
Forget the Bible, there are countless books better than LoTR. Would you say that Dante's Divine Comedy, or the Decameron or 1001 Nights, or any work by Shakespeare is not worth being included in the Top of the Millenium?
Tipical Yankee pointlessness.
marcello@muttley75.virtualave.net
"Also, Tolkien recently won the Amazon.com's "Best of the Millennium" award. (Which I have to admit is a crock, given every single book in the top ten was writen this century). "
what's worse: amazon.com coming up with a half-baked, piece of crud list of "Best" things, or those who sit around and debate over it.
amazon.com just sells the damn books, i couldn't care less about what they think is quality literature. i'm sure some underpaid, overworked goof came up with the list before his week vacation. If you saw "Harry Potter" in the list, and you didn't stop wasting your time looking at it, then shame on you!
You BASTARDS!!
Steven
-- I have marked myself unwilling to moderate-- I don't have other accounts to artificially inflate the karma of
Shouldn't Beowulf be in the top-10 of the millenium? If we can cluster together a few votes, maybe it could be a write-in candidate ...
Hands-down!
. . . you are trying to tell me that certain books (the bible for instance) have not had a greater impact on world civilization . . .
The contest was books written in this millennium, not "impact on world civilization". The Bible wasn't written in the last thousand years.
1Alpha7
Live to be Moderated
And here is a very good fan movie site.
lordoftherings.net Man, Why is this such a big deal? I downloaded this trailer in May. Is there something new that I don't know about?
The official movie site is http://www.lordoftherings.net Apple also has the preview on its site Apple.com or maybe here some of this seems to be leading back to the same feed so I don't know if it helps at all :)
where the heck is Shapespeare?!?!?
I'm sorry, but a lot of people, me included, think he's the best writer of all time, yet he didn't make it to the top ten?
certainly Hamlet IS better than Harry Potter.
and BTW, i do think that in 1000 years people will be reading or referring to LoTR.
There are two kinds of people in the world: Those with good memory.
J.K. Rowling over Shakespere, get real. You should have added a fad filter. Not knocking his work personally, but he only struck a nerve with kids and became famous over it.
She. J. K. Rowling is a woman.
1Alpha7
Live to be Moderated
So, whether you agree with their choices or not, it's not necessarily a crock that their favorite 10 of the millennium are all from a single century.
Let's take a look at some other works written in this millenium, but were not written in the past century:
- War and Peace (1863-69)
- Les Miserables (1862)
- Adventures of Huck Finn (1884)
- Moby Dick (1851)
- Dante's Divine Comedy, others (early 1300's)
- A Tale of Two Cities (1859)
I could go on, but I think you get the point. Whether any of these books deserves to be remembered as a Top10 of the millenium is debatable (they all made Amazon's Top 100 at least), but I guarentee you they deserve to be there more than "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone" or "The Stand".
MICK FUCKING FOLEY's book makes its way onto the 100 most popular books of the millenium? Ayn Rand... ok... there's plenty of dips who got a jolt out of The Fountainhead. That's fine. But a bloody wrester's book is supposidly one of the 100 most popular books of the past 1000 years.
*sigh* Nothing like the stupidity of the masses to drive me farther and farther away from any remaining fragment of socialistic leanings.
But on a more serious level... how are you supposted to get an honest reading of the most popular books of the past 1000 years when there was really weren't any novels written in prose until about 400 years ago. At least in the west. Most literature was poetry until reciently.
What about Uncle Tom's Cabin? That was fabulously popular, especially if you to a little tweaking to account for literacy rates, the population and such. It sold amazingly well, and no one remembers it these days except as an insult.
Dr. Fardook drfardook@evilconspiracy.com
Hrmmm.... Now, while I am apt to agree with some of the choices on that list, there are obvious omissions. Not a single ancient work appears on that list (the Illiad, the Oddessy, Commentaries on the Gallic Wars, for samplers).
Bram's Dracula is probably one of the most popular works EVER, yet it doesn't appear on the list. Also missing is ANYTHING by Dickens, Fitzgerald, Defoe, or Stevenson, or Hemingway. But I guess Tale of Two Cities and Great Expectations (which are required reading in U.S. grade and junior high schools, I believe) just dont rank up there with the "Harry Potter phenomenon."
No offense inteded to the LOTR, but frankly, it may deserve to be in the top 20, but not in the top 10. As for Tolkien being the greatest author of the Millenium? Well, I should go talk to my H.S. English teacher, and ask her why I had to read all that Shakespeare stuff, when he apparently wasn't even the runner up as the greatest author of all time.
the low-browing of culture makes me absolutely want to vomit sometimes.
"Moving through the masses like a fish through water." syrup
So, whether you agree with their choices or not, it's not necessarily a crock that their favorite 10 of the millennium are all from a single century
Yeah, but it's still a bit suspicious. Have you noticed that all of the CDs and videos were from the 20th century as well?
As for the complaints about Backstreet Boys et al: these were voted on by amazon customers. Therefore, you knew before reading the list that it'd be dominated, not just by the 1900s, but by the 1990s. There's no such thing as a definitive 'best of' list, and there's definitely no such thing as a definitive 'best of' list in which the public can vote easily.
On the one hand, I love the LotR, and have been looking forward to the movie greatly.
On the other hand, Tolkien Enterprises singlehandedly destroyed Iron Crown Enterprises, who made the MERP and Rolemaster RPG's. They did so by being absolute bastards, refusing any sort of reorganization plans, and doing evil things like calling ICE's bank and bullying them into holding all paychecks (without a court order, from another country!). Every other creditor was willing to play ball, but now we're without RMFRP (or will be very shortly).
I'll probably see it, but the thought of any of my admission money going to those bastards makes me nauseous.
I never thought about that, opps. My mistake, sorry.
2) Isn't J.K. Rowling female?
quibble) The Iliad would be a great pick for the B.C. list, but not a the current Millenial one (unless of course, you're talking about a particular translation).
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Had you read the page you would have seen that the Bible did indeed come in first, however Amazon determined that it was not written this millenium.
read the whole 100 list though. Mick Foley's book ranks above Hawking's
come for the naked robots, stay for the zombies
Luthien - Beren
Arwen - Aragon
Don't forget Tuor and Idril Celebrindal. She was the daughter of Turgon, king of Gondolin. Their child was Earendil Halfelven who was the father of Elrond and Elros.
As far as emphasizing the love story between Arwen and Aragorn, I've been bummed that that didn't have a larger part of LOTR. I don't know about the casting, though.
I drank what? -- Socrates
Better link.
Have to get this one.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
Though I have my hopes pretty high for this, I'm half expecting to be disappointed. From what I've read, the movie's supposed to be real accurate, as accurate as we can expect anyway, but after movies like Dungeons & Dragons I don't know what to think. God that movie sucked! Lord of the rings is by far my favorite book, as it is for many people, and were all going to be irked when Hollywood screws it up, and everyone in the country become "avid" "Lord of the Rings" fans. For me, pessimism and optimism seem to be at a stalemate.
People this preview has been available for a while (atleast the mirrors)--since about April 2000! I haven't been able to get to the site, but the official site still has the same one. You can find an explanation of the frames here. Some of the stuff doesn't hold any more. I remember hereing the ditched the stilts idea.
At the next eco-hypocrisy-meeting, count the private jets used to get to the meeting. Should be interesting to see that
Amazon's list is a POLL of readers, not a list compiled by editors or something.
These books were produced by a poll of Amazon.com shoppers.
Take it for what it is and stop bitching about how bad it is.
Do you actually see ads like this?
I usually see a religious preference, non-smoker, that kind of thing, but D&D???
Weird.
Eric Gearman
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Atomic batteries to power! Turbines to speed!
Speak for yourself. I read the Illiad at least once a year. While it doesn't make the millinium cut, I feel it's one of the best pieces of western litereature out there. Translations of past litereature should be allowed. Robert Fitzgerald's translation (1974) is IMHO, the best English language Illiad out there. Will have to go and see if I can skew this list around.
I drank what? -- Socrates
How can you say that Amazon's "Best of the Millennium" awards is a crock?! I mean.. do you really think that in the past 1000 years, there are more than two musical compositions which are superior to the Backstreet Boys album, "Millennium"?
Surely if Beethoven could have produced such a beautiful piece of music like "I want it that way", he would have ranked 3rd rather than 10th on the list! Amazon knows their music!
-gerbik
This is the same trailer that was posted earlier this year.
h tm l
http://slashdot.org/articles/00/04/07/0757212.s
Damn I was hoping for some new scenes.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Well it'd be number one on my top 10 list of books of the millenium about hobbits .
To address the Bible question, it did win, but Amazon disqualified it.
So take this all with an appropriate amount of salt as it's just what Amazon customers chose as the best books.
If you read through the whole list it appears that most of the books were chosen by rabid sci-fi Ayn Rand fans.
come for the naked robots, stay for the zombies
Whoops, cancel that, since I upped to 256 megs RAM, 750 Mhz PIII (engineering sample 733), and an Annihilator2 MX, it runs just fine... STILL, it would have been nicer to get the preview in MPEG format, I mean who're we paying to see this film, the folks who produced it? Or Apple?
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
Thats very true, it is a very multilayered read, and it would be very difficult to get bored of. I suppose what I was grasping for was the feeling you get when you read something *amazing* for the first time as a child. Theres nothing like the first time, and not knowing what is around the next corner. I suppose that when you reread, there isn't quite the same tension or magic as there was the first time, so it is a feeling that is difficult to get back. It annoys me that once I have read something, I will probably never enjoy it quite as much again. Do you know what I mean? I'm not very good at explaining myself I'm afraid ;)
--Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The
..when it should be out on January 12th?
And the site that was supposed to have the trailer is slashdotted now..
A number of posters have objected to the results of Amazon's poll of the top ten books of the millenium. I would like to point out that the book as an art form is a comparitively new invention. The Illiad is not a book, it is an epic poem, meant to be recited, not read silently. Shakespear never wrote a book, he wrote plays (much better when seen acted then when read, by the way) and poems.
Novel writing is an art that gradually developed out of these forms, and in my opinion peaked in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries (before television and movies shifted the artistic emphasis). England in particular had a literary renaissance in the early twentieth centuries, and produced books of a quality that I don't feel has been equalled since.
Of course, you may still disagree that The Lord of the Rings is the greatest book of the millenium, but I don't think that opinion is out of the question.
Respondeo dicendum quod . . .
The trailer may be finished, but it's by no means online on the Internet for download, yet! It will be out January 12th.
I have, you have.........I said most, and I am almost certain that generalization is correct, sorry.
and you can find it here.
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Maybe Shakespeare isn't on the list because HE DIDN'T WRITE BOOKS! I'm sure he'd be at the top of many "best theatrical plays of the millenium" lists...
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
Back when they released the first couple of trailers in Quicktime format, I tried, OH how I tried, to view it... At the time, I was running a K6-2 300 with a 16 meg Riva TNT based video card, over a cable connection... It was UNVIEWABLE...
I even downloaded the full 26+ meg preview, even then it was unviewable... Now I know a 300 Mhz processor isn't quite the fastest around, even with 64 megs of ram and a fast drive, but YEESH! Why was it so hard for them to release the preview in a more or less universally acceptable format such as MPEG? Hell, I would have taken Realplayer in a pinch, but this was intolerable...
Can anyone provide an alternate link to say, an MPEG encoded copy of the preview, instead of this Quicktime crap?
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
I'm watching it now, and it is the same trailer that was out in May. It's still an incredible trailer (even at 25 MB, but that's why we've got multiple T1s at work, right?), and I can't wait to actually see it in a theater.
Still, I'd like to see a new one, and I'd love to find a movie poster (they *still* don't have one online).
The best site I've found so far for movie information is www.theonering.net -- lots of good information, and easy to browse through.
Would you Slashdot people learn how to spell, please?
- Have a picture
Hamlet was a play, and can't be on the list. The Harry Potter books are novels, and can be on the list (but shouldn't).
Also, there is a popular theory that he never really existed, and the plays attributed to "Shakespeare" were written under a pseudonym by either the Earl of Oxford, or else by a variety of lesser-known playwrites.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Hmmm...after clicking "fuck no" to Quicktime's insipid "upgrade to QT 4 Pro?" popup no less than FOUR times while the trailer was loading, it tells me there was an error and it couldn't download the entire movie. Guess I'll have to upgrade after all. :)
-Legion
When doing a "Best of (insert and timeline here)", you should at least wait until that timeline is over and gone for a bit. Needless to say, a large percentage of the top 100 is from the last 3 years. Don't get me wrong, but isn't this kind of poll a little biased toward current material? Say, five-ten years from now, a best of the millenium would yield much better and REALISTIC results. I mean, come on now, Limp Bizkit in the top 25 of the millenium? Try to tell me that isn't because of a bunch of brainwashed kids
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"I'm not gonna say anything inspirational, I'm just gonna fucking swear a lot"
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Like I said to another post about this, my mistake, sorry.
If they want to call it the top ten books of the millenium, they should have been polling a representative sample of readers from the whole millenium! But no, that would take a lot of expensive exhuming, and Amazon just can't bear to get it's hands dirty.
Can someone please explain the significance of January 12th in the world of science fiction and fantasy?
There have been many nice releases on that date over the years, including the announcement of the first female starship captain in a Star Trek series (Kathryn Janeway).Wonderful birthday presents to me, but....Bits of _The Hobbit_ harken back to Wiccan lore, could this be the connection?
Thank you! (personal response is fine if you don't want to respond here) Kathryn AegisI hear they're going to have to change the name of the third movie to "Revenge of the King" because there's already a popular movie with "Return of the" in the title.
Don't blame me, I voted for Durga.
I know this is off topic, but read me before you moderate. It is a fucking crime that people voted the Backstreet Boys as being the 3rd greatest musicians the civilized world has ever known! WTF!!!!!!
How could a corporately manufactured piece of shit like the Backstreet Boys be considered for anything other than the greatest marketing scheme pushed on pre-pubescent females.
This illustrates the mental capacity of the people who did the voting. They rated Beethoven #10! WTF!
Moderators
If you hate the Backstreet Boys like I do please moderate me up! Thanks!
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No army can withstand the strength of an idea whose time has come.
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No army can withstand the strength of an idea whose time has come.
- Victor Hugo
The key thing to remember is that these books were voted on... Not selected by amazon people
Jeremy
dynamo
Shakespeare has a great quote for people spending endless hours bickering over who he/she/it might or might not have really been:
"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."