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Voices From The Hellmouth Revisited: Part Ten
After Columbine: Geek Profiling W.A.V.E., a profit-making program ramping up in the southern U.S. and soon to go national, will use Web sites and toll-free numbers, to encourage students to anonymously turn in classmates whom they consider depressed, dangerous or potentially violent, this horrifically stupid Geek Profiling would be blatantly unconstitutional, if applied to adults.
According to David Bresnahan, reporting on the WorldNet Daily site, the new W.A.V.E. program, developed by Pinkerton Services Group, a division of the international security firm Pinkerton, Inc. is starting up in North Carolina, and is soon to go nationwide.
W.A.V.E. offers anonymous toll-free lines for students who will be trained to watch for and report "dangerous" behavior like depression, or for kids with weapons. Every North Carolina school will have free access to this program, which will include a Web site, classes, school assemblies and special sessions for parents and teachers. A North Carolina task force on school violence created W.A.V.E. America, working together with Pinkerton. A contact list of law-enforcement agencies is also being developed for each school in the state to notify when a tip has been received by Pinkerton on its nationwide toll-free line.
W.A.V.E. joins new software "security" programs like Mosaic 2000, which is being tested in public schools to compile and computerize information on students believed to be dangerous or potentially violent. This new rat-on-kids industry is an offshoot of the Geek Profiling, anti-Net hysteria that broke out all across the United States after last year's Columbine High School killings. Despite the fact that horrific incidents like Columbine are extremely rare, and that the FBI and Justice Department have both reported that youth violence has dropped to its lowest levels in more than half a century, the belief persists in much of America that technologies like the Internet (and activities like computer gaming) are turning otherwise healthy school children into mass murderers.
In a news magazine survey taken earlier this year, 81 percent of Americans said they believed the Net was responsible for the Columbine massacre. In the lunatic world of American education, and the surreal aftermath of Columbine, it now seems perfectly reasonable, even sensible, to suspend and force into counseling children who are angry, depressed. Children who wear white makeup, game obsessively, or who say intemperate and stupid things. The W.A.V.E. program is institutionalizing a culture in which kids are being taught to turn in classmates whose behavior they consider abnormal or dangerous. It is also reinforcing the notion that school students have no Constitutional rights of due process, rights such as privacy, confronting accusers, behaving in nonconformists ways, or even knowing that accusations against the exist.
Although school-age children are presumed to have few rights, it's obvious that this kind of anonymous and intrusive law enforcement would be blatantly unconstitutional for adults. Recently, the U.S. Supreme Court struck down a Florida law that permits police to search people for firearms solely on the basis of anonymous tips. Citing the Fourth Amendment, which prohibits unreasonable search and seizure, the court ruled that such a law would enable "any person to harass another to set in motion an intrusive, embarrassing police search." Authorities, the court ruled, needed some corroborating evidence before they could invade the privacy of any citizen. It's frightening to imagine how school authorities can possibly teach citizenship when they have so wantonly violated the very idea of constitutional rights.
The Orwellian phobia (Who do we turn in next? Dangerous parents, neighbors and sibs?) Has been a staple of the most venal political systems in the 20th Century, from Nazism to fascism to Communism. It is presumptuous and arrogant on so many levels. It's astonishing to see public officials like North Carolina Gov. Jim Hunt adopt an idea so unthinkingly and enthusiastically. But he's not alone-plenty of parents and educators are along for the ride.
It isn't clear where information goes once it's collected by kid-profiling software, or toll-free hot lines. Presumably, it remains in a computerized dangerous-kids database for life. This is just one more reason that it's insane to ask young children to evaluate their classmates for emotional disorders and other signs of potentially "dangerous" behavior. Not only are kids patently unqualified to make such judgments, the temptation to turn in teens who are socially competitive, "geeky", different, disliked, abrasive or unhappy seems almost irresistible, especially when doing so is cloaked in anonymity. Monitoring and evaluating behavior is a science that's supposed to be done by trained professionals - teachers, psychologists, guidance counselors, and therapists. Even then, kids ought to have the right to be openly confronted with the accusation that they're a menace to society, and to respond, rather than wonder if some angry classmate has branded them for life on an anonymous toll-free line run by a profit-making private company with a vested interest in promoting the notion that schools - and teenagers - are dangerous.
"A safe school environment is fundamental to helping North Carolina's students succeed in school," announced Governor Hunt. "Every school ought to be a safe one and W.A.V.E. America will help get every kid involved. This program is more than just a tip line, it teaches students and parents to look for early signs of violent behavior and to resolve conflicts constructively."
This is the worst kind of political exploitation. It takes schools off the hook and turns the complex process of school administration over to adolescents. Kids will ultimately have to live in fear that the desk mate they jostled with will turn them in, or that bragging about exploits on Doom will get them turned into W.A.V.E. as "unbalanced."
If a teen or a parent becomes aware that a classmate has a gun and plans to use it, there are plenty of cops and law enforcement officials they can call. There is no statistical evidence to support the notion that schools are so dangerous that children need to be manipulated into turning one another in. Nor is there much doubt about who will be targeted - geeks, nerds, Goths, oddballs, along with anyone else who is discontented, alienated and individualistic.
That kids are being asked to do this is revolting enough. That they are being asked to do it by a profit-making private corporation suggests a culture much sicker and more dangerous than most school kids.
"Seems to me that W.A.V.E. merely reflects the prevailing mindset of the majority of Americans. Not to mention the sad fact that intellectual midgets machine the majority of US political/power positions. I was a nerd in school, I still am. Does that make me dangerous? Only if the fact that I think makes me dangerous in a country where thought is considered dangerous. Allah/Jehovah/God/Buddha forbid!! Could this be America, the land of the free and blah, blah, blah? The often misquoted, precious, forefathers of this "great (foul)" land would curl into cinders to see what has become of their legacy. There is no humanity in this country, everybody wants liberty but only on their individual terms, only if it suits their self-interest and they don't even care if it impinges on someone else's liberty...that's the problem with the US. Big Brother does not exist and he's looking in through your windows, down your throat and into every other conceivable orifice in your body." ---A.C. (Original Comment #1)
"DO WHAT THOU WILT SHALL BE THE WHOLE OF THE LAW: This is the most ridiculous, ludicrous, fucked up shit I have heard in years. OF COURSE it is going to be nothing but a free-for-all with all the same fucking loser/conformist/fascist types trying to fuck up life in yet ANOTHER fashion for anyone/everyone who is unique, individual, different, creative, follows another drummer, doesn't swim with the lemming crowd, doesn't baaa with the herd of sheep, etc., ad nauseum. As if they didn't try to make life fucked up for us enough as it is. But shit, we had power, guts, determination, magic and ingenuity to invent the Internet, to truly render the earth a global village, and to redefine what "WORK" means in the "new millennium". So surely we can figure out a way to STOP these worthless twits...can't we? Whaddya say, people? What shall we do to overthrow them before they even ascend, to stomp them down before they even rear their pathetic virus-infested heads, to bring them to a screeching, grinding halt before they even cross the starting line? IDEAS? ANYONE? Love is the law, love under will."---S. (Original Comment #2)
"So depressed people are dangerous and should be locked up are they? I f only guns were legal in this country; I'd go out and shoot myself in the head right now. Fascist bastards."---M.O. (Original Comment #3)
"I also have spent years fighting depression. I was diagnosed with bi-polar disorder. I'm medically considered a danger to myself. Everyone assumes that this means I'll hurt them too. I could never physically hurt anyone else. I care deeply about everyone except my self. Now that's a crime?" ---A.C. (Original Comment #4)
"My father fought his depression for three decades until it finally won one morning. In the meantime he was a major scholar in his field, respected and well liked by colleagues and students across the world. We were simply astonished by the bundles of condolences from around the world, which kept coming for weeks. He wrote several of the standard texts in his field, as well as what are now the canonical translations/ Commentaries on a number of classical texts, and was credited with making it a significant area of study where before it was an obscure backwater. And practically nobody was aware of his illness outside of his family and his closest colleagues. A less dangerous man I can hardly envision. Now under the W.A.V.E. regime, I guess that, if anyone had actually noticed the symptoms, he would have been labeled as dangerous (to people other than himself) and might well have been unable to continue in academia and thus to carry out his work, his humble attempt to add to the sum of human knowledge. By all accounts this man was a really good teacher. Clearly I'm somewhat biased, but when he taught me, I could see the talent he had. And three decades worth of students would have been deprived of his abilities, care, concern and sense of duty, had he been blacklisted on health grounds. Tuberculosis is contagious - that's why it's a notifiable disease. Depression is an all-too-often fatal condition, but it is not contagious and should in the main remain a matter for the patient, their family and their physician. It is not grounds for a witch hunt."---Tom (Original Comment #5)
"Sounds wonderful. Now these people who would rather be left alone, and enjoy wearing black clothing will be labeled as depressed and violent. Is this the "Kick Me" sign for the 21st Century?" ---P.O. (Original Comment #6)
"Does anyone else remember the cheap school-TV movie "The Wave" about fascism in elementary school? I just thought that was a weird coincidence." ---F. (Original Comment #7)
"Yeah, I mean its not like depression is very well understood by the vast majority of adults in this country. I made the mistake of letting an employer know that I was seeking help for depression, and, did I ever regret it. I found that people in the office regarded me as a potential serial killer or something. I also started hearing nasty jokes told when they thought I wasn't around. I finally put a stop to it all by having my shrink write up a document "certifying" that I was sane. Did it up one of those award templates all fancy? I should have framed it. I presented that at a staff meeting and told all present that I was the only person there who was certifiably sane and that I would have no more jokes and ostracism. It worked surprisingly well. I was lucky. Sadly, mental illness still carries a stigma and too many people like to pretend there is no such thing as depression, or they treat it as moral failing. Or worse they fear it on the same level as demonic possession. So now we have a program that puts depressed people in a database of suspicious persons. Great. Just what we need to encourage people to go get help."---D. (Original Comment #8)
I always thought 'The Wave' was something you did at a sporting event.....
First Post?
Feed the need: Digitaladdiction.net
Unfortunately only 20 bytes of new content...
Drag n' Drop DVD Recommendations
You're a washed up hack, face it. Why don't you go back to writing fortune cookies or something?
Gives a new meaning to s l o w news day.
Banned from moderation 01-27-2002. Fuck you too
W.A.V.E. is here.
Please... just let this subject die man, I've had enough already.
No todo lo que es oro brilla
Haha, too true. Perhaps 13221 bytes in BODY, but only 20 bytes in HEAD is more apropos? ;P
End Geek Profiling.
Simply call the # and report every student in all of your classrooms. Convince a few friends to do the same, and eventually, every student will be on the roster for investigation.
Granted, this sounds like that lame Spacey movie "Pay it Forward", it would definitely complicate the works.
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https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
Look, they posted AC, correct? Which means they purposely avoided being contacted. And they posted in a public forum, which means anyone can quote them. Fair use.
Even if you have to remove a few comments, do so and publish the rest. I'd buy it. I'd show it to people.
This book doesn't prove anything. It doesn't show that we're all oppressed, or that we're all whiners. But it's an honest look at the collective viewpoint of geeks (as ridiculous and cheesy as that phrase has become), and it can make people think.
Publish it.
(BTW, I'm proud of you for including the MasterCard joke in one of the installments... I was hoping you'd have the guts to do that.)
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TO BUY A NEW CAR WOULD MAKE YOU SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
hey that's my stapler... he stole my stapler... excuse me,... i paid for that... please give it back ..*mumble mumble*... burn the building down...
-atrowe: Card-carrying Mensa member. I have no toleranse for stupidity.
How many people have went out and killed themselves after seeing Katz repeat himself over and over, whether it be discussions of angst-ridden teens who can't get a date to the prom or his reviews of the latest Tom Hanks movie?
People! I think we are missing the real tragedy here! The real tragedy is Katz is not offering anything of substance to Slashdot. The real tragedy appears to be Katz is getting paid per article he writes, no matter whether it has anything to do with Slashdot or not.
The rights of teenagers erode day by day in America. Currently, in Northern California, there is a DAYTIME curfew being considered to 'keep teenagers out of trouble'. Laws like this are patently ridiculous. The only problem is, Teenagers don't have enough people standing up for their rights as citizens. There aren't enough lawyers standing up against the opression. After all, there are lawyers in any other opressed group, female lawyers, black lawyers, asian lawyers, etc... But, for obvious reasons, there are no tennaged lawyers. As a result, teenagers are under-represented, and thus easily opressed. Personally, I am working on my J.D. to fight exactly this kind of cause, opression of teenagers. This sort of ignorance simply can't be allowed to continue.
When encryption is outlawed, ?o'AZ-,++o+i++##4AoA+-/-C++bI+/.+~
Report all the abusive bullies in the school. Seems they're the _real_ violent types, right?
Maybe they can get counselling before they become alcoholic wife-beaters...
The Nazis got good currency out of an informant system, as did the totalitarian regimes of Eastern Europe. Amongst the most notorius reigned in Romania, Bulgaira and Albania, three of the most depressed countries in the region. The legacy of the tattle-tale lives in as standing out in any way (read, being different from the herd, including being successful) is a cause of fear and neurosis.
The brain-drain that results from an informant system is shocking. Witness the exodus of intellectuals from the former communist block. Project that to America and you'll find parents pulling their ostracised children out the public education sector and into the private.
Who will suffer most? Typically, the ones who would have stood to gain the most: those for whom an intellectually stimulating peer group would have boosted motivation, intellectual discipline and dialogue. And if there's any group who can understand the benefits from a stimulating peer-group, it's the /. crowd.
I hate to say it, but come on. Part Ten? Doesn't anyone remember when the Friday the 13th series went this far?
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This is the last in our retrospective on the columns that Jon Katz began writing after the killings at Columbine
Damnit, Jon, write a book and LEAVE US ALONE!! It stopped becoming a geek thing a long time ago, and it just became a Katz thing!
Lowmag.net
Or in 1984? (Orwell) I seem to remember some name for these people.
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
Yes, it is slow, and often thankless, but it really is better to build one bonfire than to curse the darkness.
One novel approach is TrueGift Donations, a nonprofit trying to get school supplies into classrooms without doing the usual funding games. Check it out.
If you think its better to get bright kids out of schools, rather than just complain about Marching Morons, then moderate this up.
Besides, wouldn't you like bright coworkers?
Profit motivates invention.
Join youthpower.net and make a difference!
If you don't mind, some of us are stuck in the Hellmouth and want to be kept aware of things like this. I just lead a campaign against cameras in our schools (we lost, of course), and this sounds like something that would be coming next. If you don't like the author, or the subject matter, don't read it, moron.
XML causes global warming.
I still can't get over how absolutely negative you all are over every single Katz article. He writes very well, but it isn't good enough for the nerd population. JonKatz: You're a great writer, go somewhere where the people have enough intelligence to recognize your skill. Slashdot Commentors: Go get laid, you all obviously need it.
"Several factors are essential in establishing ethical standards for education-business partnerships and sponsorships. First, the expectations of each partner must be clearly defined before entering the partnership. Second, partnerships should not in any way compromise the goals of public education. Third, the participation of teachers in partnerships must be voluntary. Fourth, neither students nor their families should be exploited as a result of an education-business partnership. Finally, business partners must not promote specific products, determine curricula or influence education policies." [Alberta Teachers Assoc.]
The above, from my research, is a commonly held view amongst most teacher organizations. This WAVE project is a blatant violation of such ethics. It encourages duplicity amongst school children and could lead to greater levels of fear and viciousness in revenge. How often in high school did someone piss you off and you wished you had a way to really get back at them? What better way than to drop an anonymous tip to the Pinkerton run WAVE hotline, which, as Katz stated, is fed to local law enforcement.
As someone who is planning on becoming a public system educator, it disturbs me that North Carolina has provided its students with this new, and potentially damaging, system of paranoia. I greatly hope the ACLU looks into this and files a court action, as this project blatantly violates students civil liberties and exploits the youth in North Carolina.
"We don't stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing."
Does anyone have any thoughts on how the new presidency is going to affect programs like
W.A.V.E? Will the Bush/Chaney Repbulican Party take a supportive, indifferent or negative stance?
re: "Nor is there much doubt about who will betargeted - geeks, nerds, Goths, oddballs, along with anyone else who is discontented, alienated and dualistic."
Maybe not, Geek kids are smarter and will be more likely to spend time calling the W.A.V.E. and reporting the dark sociopathic leanings of the captain of the football team and the members of the student assembly.
They're great if you want to dig up dirt on just about any american who lived over the last 40 years. They even provide similar services clandestinely in Europe on a smaller scale.
:-)
Pinkerton Background Security Services claims to have files on over 350 million Americans going back over 40 years. For large companies who open an acount with them, they will provide a file on every potential employee for a US$60 fee. Digressive discounts for larger numbers of inquiries.
Pinkerton has been a great implementor of database, indexing, search engine, and file(dossier) management technologies. They have a number of computing centres around the US to keep their data searching capabilities running 24/24.
The WAVE project they proposed to North Carolina was another great project of their many ways of collecting as much data about Americans as they can. By manning a number of "hotlines" targeted directly at children, they can create files on all school age kids in the state, long before those kids have any other paper or electronic trails. This allows them to more proactively track juveniles with problems, and bypasses court restrictions on sealing juvenile criminal records.
By offering these services to state governments, they avoid being seen in a criminal light, as they can spin their existence as a crime fighting branch of a state government. They are being given access to the school records of every student in NC, just to ensure their records are complete for when a hotline call comes in. North Carolina has given them permission to keep those records permanently, and once those records are stored in their own databases, they become the property of Pinkerton.
It is amazing the level of detail in some Pinkerton records I've seen. Driving records, complete tax paying history, any brush with the law even if it didn't result in charges or conviction, medical records, known friends and acquaintances and family relations, sexual orientation, racial background, propensity for travel, fast cars, or other "extravigant" expenses, frequent flyer plans, school records and IQ test results, military service record and security classification, oh, and credit ratings. The reports can be summarised to show potential aberant behaviour such as innability to keep a job, excessive spending, potential drug use (drop in grades during school), and undeclared medical problems.
I had an employer request a full report on me at one point (cost over US$800), because I was employed to write a security policy for them. The Pinkerton sales reps had made a sales call, and we wanted to see what was actually delivered and whether it would fit the new policy. Although their contract states the employer can never allow a person to see their own file, I was in a friendly crowd. I was stunned at the level of detail, and the inaccuracy of much of my report which combined a number of other people in America sharing my name. But the summaries of my being unstable due to moving around the US and being a flight risk due to being a foreign national were mostly right. And the analysis of being a "libertarian leaning, anti-establishment, technically savvy introvert with no social skills" was spot on for my early life, but I've got social skills now
the AC
Hemos is like...sci-fi fans;he thinks technology is cool, but he hasn't bothered to understand the science it's based on
Seems unlikely. Geeks are smarter than jocks. If anybody can figure out how to abuse the system for their own enjoyment, it will be those geeks, making anonymous tips about jocks doing drugs, and teachers who believe in this shit being pedophiles.
WAVE Promise as seen on www.waveamerica.com They need to change the background picture, "HAIL HITLER!"
What good is this Hellmouth series on Slashdot doing anyway? This would have a far better impact if it was actually published (yes, I know, some people raised a stink about their comments being used), but this is just standard preaching to the choir.
:)) are depressed, trenchcoat wearing misanthropes. Quit trying to assume that they are, because you'll end up doing more bad than good ("Hey, Jon Katz says Billy is a depressed geek! Let's put him away!").
You've had your fifteen minues of fame Jon. I don't doubt that your initial work regarding this subject was good, but now it's getting old. Your constant rants on "Geek Profiling" (TM) are making you just as bad as the school officials and other such people you write about. Not all geeks (I prefer the term "nerd" myself
Just drop it and find some new cause to trumpet, mmmkay?
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The real Raunchola isn't cool enough to have any imposters
Readers should be able to moderate whole stories... that way the slash team could know what we do and don't want to see more of....
in fact, a story modding system could be used to *post* stories, thereby removing any central control of slashdot, and getting it closer to its "open" ideal.
In Capitalist America, bank robs you!
Guido the security guard will escort you to clear out your locker. For security reasons, I can't let you leave anything in the locker.
Do you have anything to say?
`ø,,ø!
Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
Quake III is 100% more morally desensitizing than Doom is!!!! :)
I just wonder, are they really expecting that they won't be flooded with "tips" like: "Johnny is a fag. He said he was going to kill a bunch of people. Limp Bizkit rox!"
Really, think back to high school: wouldn't the funniest way to spend a boring computer lab session be to "report" all your buddies? Ok, the funniest way would be tricking an unsuspecting victim to look at the receiver, but once everyone's had a good vomit over that, you've got to find something a bit more time consuming. Telling W.A.V.E that your best friend likes to sniff dog turds and dirty sweat socks would provide at least 15 minutes of hilarity (or even a bit of a fight, which always breaks up monotony).
(disclaimer: it's not my fault if you didn't have any friends to abuse in high school)
(preach: stereotyping by either side doesn't help)
(phrase of the day: fart paste).
Is it just me, or does this remind everyone of the tactics used by the Nazis? I know it's popular to say Nazi-something for anything that you dislike (those feminazis, and nazi-music-recording companies and so on.) But this actually does quite closely echo the actions of the Third Reich.
Specifically, the Hitlerei's policy was to train children in school to turn in their classmates, their parents, and anyone else who they believed was "subversive." It was part of the daily "civics" class. This actually worked very well for them, and was in turn adopted by the Communists in Eastern Europe. Lest you Americans feel too smug, the McCarthy-ites did this as well, using the Alert Society.
If we train kids in school now, to turn in their classmates, how long until we ask them to rat on their parents, for anti-social behavior, the use of drugs, etc.
Be afraid, be very afraid.
Thalia
it's due to people on slashdot linking the description "goatse.cx" with the site mary-kateandashley.com Because of the way google works since so many sites link to slashdot, and lots of sites link to various osdn sites which all link to slashdot slashdot is considered authoritative, therefore if you post stuff like that a lot then it will be linked in google.
As opposed to Katz, who continually drones the same note, over and over. . .
Thank you, Jon Katz.
It is hard to be a reporter, to take a very complicated bunch of information and process it into something that carries some sort of meaning. It's even harder when your story is really thousands of stories, and thousands of people can, in turn, reply to those stories and to your analysis and presentation of them.
You have done a good job putting the voices forward, and the response has been mixed. I think that's fine, controversy is a good thing.
Goat sex free since 2001
there was a study done by a highschool teacher (and a movie made out of it im pretty sure... memory is hazy due to this being told in social class during discussion of nazi germany) who basically started a cult to teach the kids just how easy a leader can create followers. called it the wave. is it just me, or is this too much of an amazing coincidence to be real?
There is a Site Trying to stop it apparently.... They've got my vote!
lim brain -> meltdown
Consider the amount of crap that can be found for the last couple of years on slashdot (I've read it long even before I knew how to run LILO), ./ username & to post replies on Jon Katz articles...
I'd suggest to ban AC's and oblidge everbody to first to show their W.A.V.E. record, pass an IQ test, an medical test and show an attest of sanity.
To show of their haxors skills as well, they need to infiltrate into the national security agency and dig up their profile.
After all of this has been approved, they're certified of obtaining a
(If you think this is serious, then you're a fraud, your sanity attest if a fake, isn't?)
Hey, all you people who don't seem to appreciate this critique of post-columbine mass histeria can go suck an egg! Clearly you weren't victims of this state condoned harrassment based soley on your non-conformist thought, so you have no idea what it's like. I totally applaud Jon Katz and what he is doing and I encourage him to keep it up.
I for one was a victim of this witch-hunt and I know a couple others who it happened to also. These though-police fuckers shut-down my website, threatened me with arrest, expulsion, and called me a cyber-terrorist. All for something I didn't even do!
Just because some asshole decided to post a threat against my school on my website, I got in trouble. Of course my schoool authorities/assholes never doubted for one second that it was me who did it, never mind the fact that my site got 300 hits a day. My non-conformist style of dress and shabby hair PROVED me to be a murderous phsychopath. Never mind the fact that I am a devout pacifist and vegan and that is one of the central themes of my fucking site!
This happened over a year ago and I am still pissed off about it. What they did was fucking wrong, and if you and I don't stand up to it it's only going to get worse. So you fucking go, Jn Katz, and fuck all the naysayers!
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Yay. Hey Katz, this atricle blew.
In cases like this, or toll-free crisis/abuse call centers that profess to be anonymous, is ANI disabled?
For instance, some posters were suggesting that students use the hotline to report all students, or non-geeks/jocks, for instance--a suggestion which would then want the stipulation that such calls be placed from a pay phone or something.
err, for those who don't know what ANI is:
AFAIK, you can't "caller-id block" ANI.
I would like to turn in the fellow who shares a locker with me. His name is Winston, and he hogs the locker space we share and I have no room to store my GameBoy in it. Recently, I caught him dozing off in class, and in his sleep, I heard him mumble, "Down with Big Brother! Down with Big Brother!". No doubt, this makes his loyalties to our HS highly questionable.
Thank you for your help in removing this troubled classmate from my school.
Offtopic? Come on, moderators, grow a sense of humour. And this is perfectly on-topic, too.
to encourage students to anonymously turn in classmates whom they consider depressed, dangerous or potentially violent, this horrifically stupid Geek Profiling would be blatantly unconstitutional...
They aren't being asked to turn in geeks, with the point being that geeks have a high(er) tendancy towards these things. They are being asked to turn in people who _are_ depressed, dangerous, or potentially violent.
If loving taffy was a crime, and It was shown that blacks love taffy at a statistically higher level than non-blakcs, reporting suspected blacks for investigation would be 'profiling'.
Then again, if it isn't sensational it probably can't stretch out for 10 installments.
Your sig is also remarkably on-topic for this story.
-atrowe: Card-carrying Mensa member. I have no toleranse for stupidity.
The first couple of Hellmouth articles had a powerful effect, not only by providing an outlet for the ranks of schoolkids (and former schoolkids) outside of the dominant clique, but by sensitizing some of the more thoughtful teachers and counselors to their issues. The articles actually circulated among some of the professionals dealing with Columbine, something that no doubt helped sensitize them to the ways that reactions to Columbine would (and did) come down on innocent groups. I suspect that Katz was greatly surprised at the power and scope of the emotions and experiences that the articles tapped -- and the amount of attention they received. He's still riding the wave of outpourings from that series.
He should stop. There is a point where self-expression becomes self-obsession. There is a point where opening old wounds becomes injurious, not cathartic. And there is a point where he becomes just another zealot milking Columbine to his own ends (even though I might support those ends), and to rapidly shrinking effect.
I generally support Katz (which I'm sure many here feel puts me in a small minority). Yes, his pieces are sometimes fluffy and he often forgets to dot his intellectual I's and cross his factual T's. But he generally creates a good springboard for discussion (if you can ignore the knee-jerk Katz-haters that love to flock to his articles). And discussion (not "news") is what Slashdot is about, isn't it?
But it is far past time to stop dragging out "Hellmouth" and start developing some fresh perspectives and constructive ideas on this subject, or drop it altogether. He should have stopped the series some time ago.
Heh. Never really noticed before...
What it does encourage you to report:
- Serious physical fighting with peers or family members.
- Severe destruction of property.
- Severe rage for seemingly minor reasons.
- Detailed threats of lethal violence.
- Unlawful possession and/or use of firearms and other weapons.
- Other self-injurious behaviors or threats of suicide.
But not just depressed anti-social behavior. Check it out here. http://www.waveamerica.com/That out of the way, I would like to say that I dislike the blatant direction that Katz steers the usage of the W.A.V.E. program. I am not saying that it is a good program, far from it, but I tire of the "pandering to the geek" mentality.
This program, if it goes into effect and is not monitored somehow, will be abused by anyone that can. Just imagine a high school full of students that get into petty fights everyday. Go ahead, I don't think that is hard to imagine. Now give those students an anonymous outlet to attack the person who they fought with. I don't care who the people are, it wouldn't necessarily be the outcast picked on. This has the possibility to be abused by anyone, against anyone. The head cheerleader has a bone to pick with some freshman girl, so she turns her in, and so the story goes.
These scenarios and many more are just over the horizon when identifying troubled people is left in the hands of their peers, especially at the ages (lifespan and maturity) that most students in school are at.
So, this program stinks, but let's not pandering to the outcasts. It stinks because it adds a level of tattle-tale to it. A sort of snitch mentality where you have to fear who is gonna turn you in.
piffy
www.piffy.org -- me.
While I am out of High School, my girlfriend is not. Recently, there has been a student that is threatening to hurt people. There is both written and verbal documentation of this.
What can someone do in this situation? The problem has been brought to the attention of the principal, however, the student is still in class. People still feel unsafe.
This is where I see a need for something like this. I don't think that it should be an automatic death sentance for the person reportedd, but I think it serves a valuable purpose for those people who feel unsafe.
What are people's thoughts?
Am I the only one who finds this kinda creepy?
There was a book, written by Morton Rhue, that I had to read back in grade school, about a movement, called the Wave, which a teacher started to illustrate the dangers of organizations like the Nazi party that emphasize conformity and betraying nonconformists and, er, some crap like that. Follow the link, there's a summary of the story that is loads more coherent than mine.
Without the pad, it's not Dance Dance Revolution, it's Listen
"What about the children? Won't somebody *please* think of the children!" --Helen Lovejoy, from "The Simpsons"
WAVE is administered by Pinkerton's, Inc., which is a rather nasty business intelligence firm that morphed into its spy-happy self from its previous incarnation as a union-busting, railroad-protecting gang of thugs. Katz has previously noted this connection.
Goat sex free since 2001
Was listening to NPR (or maybe PRI) on the way home, and caught a snippet wherein the Prez claimed that he would, as part of his educational initiatives, try to do something about all of the students who are in fear of going to school.
Thank god, I thought. Finally, someone is going to do something about those asinine jocks and their cohort.
Then I remembered: He meant he would be doing something about the people who get picked on and then retaliate with semi-automatic weapons.
Fuck. Same shit, different elected official.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
:::laughing hysterically:::...ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...oh. Excuse me, sorry, for all that laughter. I remember my skewl had a "homework hotline" one time...well turns out we "hacked" it...man how funny was that.[begin recording]"this is mr.teacher, for class today we will be having all the girls meet with me in the closet for a SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT." "a bunch more degrading shit".
Anyway my point is...your targeting the geek culture here right...they're going to fuck this thing up...I swear! I would if I was still in skewl. And how are they going to ween out the false accusations?
This system is one giant joke, and a bad one at that. Not only will it prove impotent in fighting skewl violence, it will also destroy the lifes of certain individuals. And if a kid...a fucking kid! can see depression in a classmate before a teacher does...well then, something is terribly wrong. Actually wait no...how about the fucking parents dealing with these situations...theres a fucking clue! Note to parents....TALK TO YOUR KIDS, you'll find this will defuse many problems.
Depression is a serious problem, please don't fight it with neo bullshit problem solving (tattle-taling). A depressed person is volatile, not stable, and susceptable to critical comments and constant negative attention. I think some people deserve a bullet in the head for fucking with depressed people...hey they'll never do it again right? Plus how is someone outside the depressed person's life, like a pig, going to help? This system put forth is an antagonist on the back of depression. This system will do more damage than help. This system is just plain retarded, a "corporate check point". Fuck normal thoughts, fuck being a bitch for the skewl system, if you like something different...your not crazy...your not going to kill people...you just like different shit than the mass morons in the world. This is a system to stifle creative thinkers, artist, and overall open minded people who can see past trivial social nonsense.
"Take magical mushrooms and squeegy your third eye." - Bill Hicks
"When I look back, my life is not a foreign country, it's more like a library book returned long ago." - ????
...Johnny and Sue-Ann, because today they put spit balls in my hair durring Biology, and that seems like pretty antisocial behavior to me.
And I would like to report Garrett, because on the bus this morning he called me a stupid fat girl, among other things, and he seemed really angry, and it frightened me. I think he could become violent.
And I would like to report Mr. Larson, because after english class today, when I told him about how I could not turn in my homework because it was stolen from me at lunch by some kids I did not know and thrown in a mud puddle, he called me a liar and told me I better shape up if I wanted to get anywhere in this life.
And most of all, I would like to report myself, because if this keeps up much longer, I just might decide to fight back...
Nessun maggior dolore, Che ricordarsi del tempo felice Nella miseria. -Dante
I would love to do a poll on the age of people who posted to these stories. Katz is as biased as any reporter/mudraker/conservative politician.
A freshman in college, I went to a highschool in a county in which existed an anonymous tip line for weapons in school. I imagine that the principles would have cut the lock off of your locker and searched it, had they been tipped you might be hiding a firearm there.
I never used it. I don't know of anyone who did. I also don't know of anyone who was a victim of a malicious tip. And I ran with the geek/nerd crowd...according to Katz, we should have been targets. But we never were.
C'mon, people. Give us some credit! Highschoolers, even middle-schoolers are intelligent. They are responsible. Yeah, I can see there being some losers, and some space for malicious abuse. But I don't see it being nowhere *near* as bad as our resident demagogue suggests.
- I've read a lot of comments here about how Katz should stop this marathon (10 part) series and just publish a book. Doesn't it seem plausible that the reason Slashdot has published 10 installments is because they want a large comment base from which to publish such a book?
- I actually liked this installment of Katz's ranting despite the fact that I hated the first two and stopped reading until now. I don't think Katz is beating a dead horse at all. Profiling of students because of suspicious behavior is exactly the wrong response to the Columbine massacre nad I'm not willing to stand by and watch it happen. This horse should be beaten as long as it takes to get a response.
- Let me explain why profiling of students is absolutely the wrong response, despite the fact that some of this has been said before. What happened in Columbine is that a community, like so many these days, is totally out of touch with its members. Those kids were bullied into a sub-culture that turned violent. Their crime was not that they joined a sub-culture, but that they chose a very costly method of expressing their pain at being ostracized. By profiling children in such a manner as WAVE is attempting to do, they merely make these isolated children more ostracized and give them less of what they need so desperately, compassion. The reason geeky kids form a sub-culture is because they're bullied and they need a social circle that provides reinforcement, just like everybody does. To bully them further by giving them the message "if you are depressed we will search you out and force you to be happy and compliant" WAVE is merely contributing to the debasing of children by their peers. They do this by further objectifying them and further denying them compassion. A depressed child doesn't need to hear "we will find you out if you're depressed and violent," they need to hear "I understand that you're human, feeling sad and lonely is natural when nobody loves you. I feel for you." WAVE needs to understand that their program will cause children to hide their depression even more than before because they feel so ashamed and commodified.
- On an unrelated note, something has to be wrong with this scenario: 1) Somebody reports something factually incorrect about you, 2) your character is defamed because of this by, say, you not getting a job you want (defamation of character is illegal, of course), 3) Because you don't have $800, you have no recourse to find out how and whether you are being defamed. Doesn't this sound too aristocratic for America?
Just my $.02This is one of the most ill-concieved political schemes I know of. It's all too well founded on the three principles of politics:
1) Ignorance: like most decision makers, those behind this solution have no expertise, desire to consult experts, or any intellect of any kind.
2) Speed: although it doesn't work in theory and is incredibly damaging in practice, this solution can be implemented quickly and easily.
3) Lack of responsibility: the solution is such as not to suggest that the established institutions or voting majorities are in any way responsible for anything to do with the problem.
WAVE is a political convenience that follows these rules and not a real soultion. I can't imagine any sociologist or psychologist worth the paper his/her diploma is printed on suggesting something this absurd and the intelligence of the politicians need not be debated. It's as easy to set up as any database and an 800-number, and places the blame for the problem and much of the responsibility for fixing it squarely on the kids themselves, absolving their parents and teachers of responsibility and making them all sleep better at night. It also makes the school a very unhealthy environment for children that's full of distrust. If I had kids and they were affected by this, I'd seriously consider leaving the state, or even the country.
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Even as you read this, your pants are strangling your loins! Aaa!
You're a geek, right?
Doesn't that make you a wacko, psycho, nut AND loser among the geeks who disagree with you about your stance on Jon Katz and the Hellmouth?
I'm in high-school right now and I've been going through some pretty rough times. I've considered both homicide and suicide (usually mixed together).
AND, GOD DAMN IT, I AM THE ONLY PERSON IN THIS WHOLE FUCKING WORLD WHO *APPROVES* OF THE COLUMBINE SHOOTINGS!
(There, I've said it. Moderate me down for advocating murder)
Sorry for the yelling, i'm just getting disturbed that so much non-slashdot material is getting thrown up while so many stories are getting ignored/buried.
:-)
I would love to have a job where everything I write, no matter what it is, will get published and I get paid for it
Seriously.
I get a creepy feeling reading katz's articles that just don't fit into Slashdot, and I begin to wonder, if this is what Slashdot has come down to today, what about 6 months from now, or a year from now. Is it going to be salon.com or inside.com or (insert "hip" "happening" site here) with the occasional linux blurb or tech blurb thrown in every few days?
They need to split off Slashdot into two parts, the techie part (like it used to be, geek movies, info, software, hardware, cult type stuff) and the non-geek movie review/katz "reach deep inside your soul and tell me how you feel" site.
-m
It's a little annoying to hear the same stuff over and over again. But the kind of social problems that get solved are the ones where someone crusades to keep them visible. Squeaky wheel gets the grease kind of thing...
-m
The Wave was the result of an experiment in Personality Cult worship in PaloAlto Cali. in the 60's. It is VERY funny that the monkeys who are developing this 'squeel' system have never heard about it.
The book based on this event was required reading in my HighSchool - very interesting read.
Maybe the people devloping the "W.A.V.E." program should read a book... it is uncanny that this experiment (in 60's California) detailed in this book is exactly what this "W.A.V.E." program will lead too - that the book actually warned against this.
This is very weird.
I cannot imagine why the american public could even think about blaming the net for any of the horrible events that took place at Columbine High. 20% of americans own personal computers, and even about 70% of them are capable of connecting to the net. So it seems that 80% of America believes the net is in some way responsible, it is only out of ignorance.
After the murders took place at columbine, a sawed off shotgun barrel was found in one of the shooter's rooms, along with supplies capable of constructing a bomb. If the parents were responsible, they should have noticed somthing was wrong before somthing like that would happen.
And as for the W.A.V.E organization..
Myself, a highschool student, have never been suicidal, extremely violent, depressed, or an outcast from my peers. Im just not an outspoken person. If somone confronted me and tried to assist me with some inposed issues, I would feel uncomfortable at school, and singled out. Programs like this would do more bad than good. It should be the teachers responsibility to point out these issues to a school official, only if it poses a threat to other students. Maby if got some more Outgoing teachers, this would work.
Even using something like Yahoo Messenger and having it constantly dial in with silence or a recorded audio file.
-
-Be a man. Insult me without using an AC.
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
Just like the children in Orwell's classic (and accurate) _1984_ when they turn in Winston's neighbor (I think. I remember the concepts, not the details.)
~~~LXT~~~
Life is like a computer program: anything that can't happen, will.
On the aniversary of Columbine last year, my moron math teacher (not actually a teacher, he never got a teaching degree. He was a carpenter teaching Geometry.) Got us all together, and told us the story. He showed us their pictures and he said "It could be anyone." If you're having problems, you can always talk to me about it. If you think anyone is having social problems, you can talk to me. Now, I'm in the "punk" group, and my friends were making fun of him (quietly) because he looked ridiculous. He freaked out and said "Guys, I'm serious." And we said that this was the least of our troubles/problems and he went on a yelling tirade... it wouldn't end.
Some of you don't know how bad school has gotten. The school outlaws HATS, HEADBANDS, COATS, and a bunch of other stuff from being worn in school (a PUBLIC school!) It supposedly is to prevent gangs, because they cause violence. So hats/coats/headbands cause violence. Think about it. "I guess we can't have a gang anymore because we can't wear hats, and that just takes the fun out of it. I actually got sick and had to wear a coat because the school doesn't heat enough, plus I was cold from being sick. They made me take it off, and so I got sicker and missed more school. I wonder if the suspension from not taking it off would have lasted longer than the sickness. It would at least have been more pleasant. I better stop here before I get anymore pissed off and get bad karma for flamebait and start a flame war. But school really sucks.
Now if they really wanted to have a call in line, turning in you class mates, why not use it for drugs. Metal profiling is something kids are not capable of doing, as opions of people are greatly swayed by there popularity. Drug use on the other hand requires no profiling, simply, Drugs Yes/No Once a child is singled out, its impossible to detect if he/she is going to go on a killing spree, simply because he played Quake. Testing for drugs though is much easier. It also returns a definite answer. This drug testing would provide so many benifites, including slowing the drug trade, increasing public safty and fix other problems. So why wont the goverment do something positve once.
However, if a solution must be proposed, how about this: instead of punishing the few, educate the many. In a true democracy, the majority always prevails. However, this country was designed to have safeguards that prevented the majority from exercising tyrannical power over the minority. Unfortunately, most children are educated at government schools and are indoctrinated against standing out. It seems ironic that a government that was supposed to protect individual freedoms has begun to support the destruction of these freedoms. If this is not stopped now, there is no telling where it will end.
Makaera
Don't make me use my other sig!!
Okay, I hate this as much as everyone else, but this caught my eye:
;-)
----------------
Q: Is the information received used for any type of profiling?
A: No. We do not perform any type of profiling. Information received is used in aggregate form by the Center for the Prevention of School violence to track school violence trends and to develop effective and relevant strategies to help schools stem violence.
----------------
No, I don't believe them, but I thought I should pass this along. With that said, they give a lot more info on what questions you're gonna need to answer... make sure you plan ahead before you jam the system
http://www.waveamerica.com/wave/wavefaq.asp
The Waz
"It's not old!" -- my slogan!
Try again.
The message on the other side of this sig is false.
what the hell is this:
"The WAVE Line is strictly for reporting concerns. Threats made to the WAVE Line are considered a federal offense."
A federal offense? If it's a fucking anonymous phone call, how the hell do they plan to prosecute it? Or could it be that it's not actually anonymous? Gee, maybe Pinkerton hasn't heard about *69. Don't tell them, okay?
Interestingly enough, there doesn't seem to be anything on their site about providing misinformation, or just blatantly lying. So if you can do that with a clear conscience (if you can't, well...you probably work for Pinkerton), go ahead and tell them the cheerleaders threatened to kill your puppy if you corrected them in class again.
Judge Reinhold, I think, played a teacher who wanted to get across to his middle school students how seductive fascism was. He began a program called "The Wave" and everyone wore armbands and such, and discipline became highly strict within the classroom and so forth. Certain kids became enforcers, like the brownshirts. The TV-movie revolved around 2 kids who got really freaked out by it, and they fought to stop the evil teacher.
Everything kept building to the point where the teacher planned to reveal the wave's "National Leader," and it was this really big deal. By that time, lots and lot of kids had joined the wave, and the 2 free-thinking ones were all panicking and so forth.
So in this big auditorium, the teacher says, "Here is our national leader," and he pulls a paper off the overhead and there is Adolf Hitler. He's made his point rather dramatically about fascism, and after supposedly being mean to these 2 kids, he smiles at them because they were onto him the whole time. He loses his job, the end.
It was a cheesy flick but I'm such a paranoid person that I loved it!
--hongpong.com
Being a pacifist to me means not using violence as a solution to problems, or at any other time for that matter. It doesn't mean not getting mad. I get pissed, but i vent it in healthy ways. And I'm not just pissed about what my school did to me, I'm also pissed about some of the things they have very recently done to some friends of mine.
:) ) and it was really generally sad. Of course they used the rulebook to justify this, even though it had no mention of jewelry! Only a rule which said "Students must obey teachers at all times". They also came close to expelling that same friend for not letting them confiscate his hat. Another friend got suspened for two days for giving someone the finger, and yet another friend got tackled to the ground by campus security for looking like he was "on-drugs".
For example, our furher/principal forced my friend to rip out his earings right in front of him the other day, because they were a "liability". They bled all over the place (we got a picture
So yes, I don't like holding grudges, but it's sort of hard when i keep on getting reasons to renew them.
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The subject says it all.
:)
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I enjoy Jon Katz'es writing. Not that I alway agree with him, but do we not agree with the conccept of free speech??? Us geeks/nerds/dorks, no matter what age we are, do deserve the discussion about our community.
I have checked "exclude author" on Katz and it doesn't work! I still see his disgusting comments all the time. Fellas, I need help. How do i kill all his posts?
I checked, again and again, that Katz to be filtered out in my preference. basically, I went to "preference" and then click on the button that says Jon Katz under exclude author and hit save button but his posts still shows up AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN.
Please! help me from the excruciating pain of seeing something like this. "Part 10" of Hellmouth. Save me! Please! Someone!
I'm not too up on my phone line technology, but if this is from Pinkerton... What is to prevent them from tracing the calls, cross-referencing that information with their massive database (looking for a phone # match), and then identifying the household from which the call was made? You would think information about people who repeatedly ratted out others might be just as beneficial to their psychological profiling....
Anybody remember the movie The Third Wave, based on the true story? In 1968, a high-school teacher sets up a Nazi-like social organization as a classroom experiment, which then goes horribly awry, as such experiments will...
I wonder if the Pinkertons were aware of this when they chose this name? My guess, sadly, is yes.
I am a teenager, and I don't live in the US. Having read some of the things here at ./, I am very glad I won't be living there anytime soon.
It seems to me, that the American society is full of hidden hatred towards itself. I mean look at all the racist shit going there. For Americans, finding a way to hurt nerds is just another way of hating themselves.
Americans also have an interesting conception, in which young people don't have any rights (I sometimes feel that neither do adults). They are subjects to spontaneous police scrutiny, as if there had never been such a
Simple enough solution for even a windows user: Try not clicking on the URL. That blue underlined hyperlink? You are wasting bandwidth.
Just make sure you turn everyone in, that way they'll be fudged so badly the system won't work at all. :)
I am a young male living in North Carolina. I was hospitalized for depression when I was 15. I was under the impression that, by law, all my medical records would be destroyed when I recently turned 18. I'm far from a legal expert here, so someone help me out. Isn't Pinkerton breaking a law or two? If the local mental health agency can't keep my records on file, how does some huge company, only looking to make a profit, get a hold of my files and keep them forever? It seems to me that our government is dipping their hand into Pinkerton's pockets.
At least I can buy a gun now...
You continue to put a face on the otherwise cold, beige Slahdot. Keep up the good work and ignore the assholes who flame you, they were probably bullied and now feel they need to seek revenge. To all of you who must just search for Katz articles to blast . . . you're ignorant children and deserve whatever ass-kickings or social shunning you're obviously getting to make you so angry. Post your numbers and ill report you to W.A.V.E.
Well let's see what they say in their FAQ:
Q: Is the information received used for any type of profiling? TOP
A: No. We do not perform any type of profiling. Information received is used in aggregate form by the Center for the Prevention of School Violence to track school violence trends and to develop effective and relevant strategies to help schools stem violence.
Quite different from what the Slashdot chief demagogue John Katz is trying to tell us.
....was evidently depressed. He said, "Father, why hast thou forsaken me?" What more proof do they need? They should have taken that peace-geek right out and nailed him to a friggen cross. I haven't been keeping up with the news lately. Whatever happened to him anyway? Did he go Open Source?
Rien n'est plus beau que le creux du 0.
________________________________________
worst...post...ever
they are the fools. One day we will be able to rise above their level, if we havn't already and they're scared as hell of anyone with more power than them. Anyone who had a remote amount of power over administration could probally run the whole school! Power would be simple to get without violence at any school. Methods of trying to aquire power through violence towards your peers is rather dumb, as the cops would get involved. I have numerous people ask me if "I make bombs" and I reply "that's illegal." Why use explosives when there are things that are so much more powerful? Couple of ideas for people here if you really want to get even at school. Please keep in mind I claim no liability for doing these things, they are the result of a "crazy" mind. =0 1)blackmail the admin. Follow the principal around. He have a stash of pot growing in his back yard? unfaithful to his wife? Take some pics and make them "appear" next time something goes down, and keep the negatives elsewhere. I'm sure he'll see your perspective better from then on, if not he'll be busy with other things. 2)anon tip lines. Oh the fun you can have with these. Either crack em or even better get it so there are messages about teachers/admin on them. "Yeah, I saw a kid who had a stack of 20 pipe bombs, he lives at . Boy won't he be in for a surprise when they learn who's been tipped off to! Or even better, use the tip line to report what you're blackmailing the guy for. Imagine if the cops get a hold of it without the principal knowing, he'd get his house raided elian style. I bet the "tip line" would be shut down in twenty minutes flat! These are just my rantings, so I ask of you not to be a jerk and try these without proper "motivation."
Don't call my crazy, that's what they called me back in the home!
Principal decries portrayal of case against jailed teen
By Estanislao Oziewicz
The principal of a rural Eastern Ontario school says that she is amazed at published portrayals of the case against a 16-year-old boy charged with making death threats to staff and fellow students.
Some media have turned the case into one about freedom of expression rather than the safety of the students, she said.
"It's really sad," said the woman, who has been principal at the school of 500 students for three years.
(The Young Offenders Act prohibits publication of information that would lead to the identification of a young person charged with a crime.)
The boy was charged on Dec. 8 with threatening to blow up the school after writing a story and presenting it to his drama class, and with making specific threats to kill three schoolmates.
He was held in detention until Thursday, when he was released on bail in the care of his parents.
After the boy's release, Toronto lawyer Clayton Ruby agreed to take the case.
In an interview yesterday, he said that it is unconscionable that the boy was detained for a month.
"We too often forget that young people have constitutional rights, too, and we tend to treat them as if we could just lock up them based in part on what they wrote, whereas we wouldn't do that for an adult," he said.
"I really think that if you really believe in the free-expression guarantee, and you tell a child in school to write fiction, you should not be using that in evidence against him. And to lock him up for a month is really quite peculiar."
PEN Canada, which sees the charges as an attack on freedom of expression, has sided with the boy. The Ottawa International Writers Festival is holding a fundraiser for the boy's defence and to discuss associated civil-liberties issues.
[Email courtesy the globeandmail.com Web Centre.
Clayton Ruby is one of the top defense lawyers in Canada, who occcasionally does pro-bono work in cases with a significant "political" component.
davecb@spamcop.net
They've been up to this crap since just after the civil war, when Pinkerton agents ran southern farmers off their land (so the railroad could come through) like Nazis chasing Jews out of Poland. The James Gang rose up pretty much as a reaction to that (so who's the one creating serial killers?). Now these pigs are after you. I'm all for law enforcement but this is more like those automatic red-light-runner cameras. It's all about the money. Sabotage, sabotage, sabotage!!!
*** ***
Fifteen years ago a college roommate described "The Wave" incident to me, and I've been curious to read about it ever since. I'm grateful to you for posting this link, and I hope everyone will take the time to look through it.I'm planning to buy the book and, when my son's old enough, get him to read it so he'll understand certain things he needs to know.
"How many light bulbs does it take to change a person?" --BMcC-->
"In our system, state operated schools may not be enclaves of totalitarianism. School officials do not possess absolute authority over their students. Students in school as well as out of school are 'persons' under our Constitution."
Justice Abe Fortas, Tinker v. DesMoines
Isn't this a legal precident that could be used against W.A.V.E. -- or whatever instrument of "totalitarianism" public schools choose to throw at students?
Oh, and I know it's an old sore-point for many -- but Katz, dammit, cite your sources! "This survey said that, and some-other survey said this" -- This is the internet -- it's what hyperlinks are for. Not to mention that it might lend some credibility to what you're saying. It's awfully hard for some of us who were raised on "you can't always believe what you read/hear/see" to stomach "facts" that are pulled out of the proverbial nowhere.
If you do all this research for your articles then don't be afraid to show it. Helping your readers feel that you aren't blowing things out of proportion, or at least that you aren't making things up, is not a bad thing. In fact (go figure), it's quite a good thing.
According to the study, the extensive media coverage has drawn a portrait of epidemic revenge killings by loners that have easy access to guns. This stereotype is inappropriate and they rebuke the media for often-times being incomplete, inaccurate, or unbalanced. (Are the media part of the problem, rewarding kids for crave attention and unnecessarily alarming citizens?)
They recommend that every school should identify one staff member to be the 'threat assessment' coordinator. (The greatest cause of poor management is the lack of communication across multiple teacher, parents and students who observe threatening behavior.) This person becomes a central repository for information about threats at the school.
Importantly, each threat should be analyzed by their "four pronged" approach to assessing threats. These prongs are mostly situational (Family dynamics, School dynamics and Social dynamics) with a little bit of profiling (Personality of the student). Based on the analysis of these factors, the coordinator can determine whether the threat requires intervention by law enforcement or not.
There is a balance between individual rights (such as privacy rights not to be monitored or profiled) and collective rights (like safety from violence in schools). I am very heartened to see that the FBI advocates an approach based on analyzing the context of the situation, rather than profiling the individual, striking a good balance between the two potentially competing rights.
Hey democracy lovers, add Quorum as a c
The Hellmouth series was the most important thing to ever come out of Slashdot. Had the book been published, it could have gone a long way to educating parents, teachers, administrators, and government types. But no, you whining bunch of little turds had to scream about your rights and prevent it from happening. So now the series is only published on Slashdot. What chance is there of it being seen by those who should see it? None.
.com crowd and think the world owes you something. I got news for you, the world doesn't owe you a fucking thing. Unfortunately, you spoiled piles of dog excrement blew your chance to help make this world a better place.
Sure, technically you own your personal posts, but the right thing to do was to give up your own selfish little interests and do what is best to help thousands of suffering kids. I guess too many of you have joined the overpaid, self-important, arrogant
Go fuck yourselves.
-- Will program for bandwidth
easy! Simply call in the football team. Every time they practice. Every time they get out of classes early. Every time there is a pep rally. Simply call up the toll-free number. Say that there are people in your school who are obsessed with violence. Say there is a club meeting quietly during school hours, where everyone involved slips out of class, and they meet to plot how to hurt other students. Vaguely reference the Pep rally.. in that it is an involuntary gathering where you are forced to cheer the vulgar and violent actions of a few in your school who "dont really fit in".
Flood them with enough calls like this, it will die. And dont think for a moment a school is going to put up with *anything* that threatens their pretty little sports programs.. the band has to pay for their uniforms and instruments, but I dont see the football players buying the new stadiums.
This is simple folks.. use their own system against them.
Want to stop violence in school? Stop teachign the biggest, dumbest idiots *IN* the school that might makes right, and that crushing those who oppose them on the scrimmage field is a suitable application of power, and is okay!
maeryk
Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
> The Orwellian phobia has been a staple of the
> most venal political systems in the 20th
> Century, from Nazism to fascism to Communism.
> [...]
> If a teen or a parent becomes aware that a
> classmate has a gun and plans to use it, there
> are plenty of cops and law enforcement
> officials they can call.
Why should someone call the cops just because a student "has a gun and plans to use it"? The vast majority of gun uses are entirely legitimate (hunting, target practice, self-defense). Assuming that someone is dangerously violent just because they have and use guns is exactly the kind of stereotyping and witch-hunting that Katz decries elsewhere in his article.
It's the kids who have guns and use them a lot---those who are immersed in the much-maligned "gun culture"--- who are least likely to do something stupid with a gun. Gun enthusiasts as a group are very big on gun safety rules, and many cases of police "accidentally" killing people could be avoided if police followed the same safety rules.
I'm an old geek. Went to HS in the 60's. 40 years later we're still talking about the same sort of issues that I experienced. I don't expect this to change in my lifetime.
One new wrinkle is that in 1994 Asperger's Syndrome became an official medical diagnosis. Look it up. It fits many of us. Before some jock rats you out as a weirdo and makes your life even harder, you can make a preemptive strike and get yourself diagnosed as an "Aspie". Most school districts will then be legally required to accommodate your "special needs".
W.A.V.E. is attempting to take the place of responsible parenting and accountability. Take this fucker to the top.
...suckling from the sweet amnion of life...
Doom was released shortly after the battle of Poitiers and enjoyed its greatest popularity during the latter years of the Hundred Years War. Needless to say nobody plays it anymore. They still used monochrome monitors and 8 inch floppy disks back then!
When I was in high school, the jocks would rotate their senior rings 180 degrees then use them to "knot" the geeks. The standard indoctrination in the locker room was for the jocks to make whips from the towels and hit the geeks. The strongest admonishment from the coaches/teachers was "Now, don't do that." And is there any wonderment that when I started to drive to school, that I carried both my 12gauge goose gun and a double bit axe handle? Funny how that the harassement suddenly stopped when this redneck geek got to drive to school. Thank GOD that I didn't goto school during these politically correct days or else they would have me sentenced to a reeducation camp.
Well, what happened to the assholes that tormented me && the rest of the geeks?? Two of them were the last two to goto the electric chair in Louisiana(Jimmy Wingo & Hugh Glass), another went to the state penitentary for assault with a deadly weapon(Everett Davis) and this was the pinnacle of all of their successes.The rest are run of the mill blue collar workers now; struggling to stay off of minimum wage/unemployment.
KNOT (verb) to strike someone on the head with a large metal device to cause a prominent bump to rise up on their head. To inflict a mild concussion.
WHIP(verb) to tightly twist a towel into a 3' roll, then swing and strike a geek to leave bruises and lacerations. /P.