Stop being an ass - I didn't call them terrorists, I drew a parallel between the way that demonizing people is dangerous, and the way that people are demonized as "terrorists" today is very reminiscent of the way that Jews and communists were demonized in Nazi Germany. In fact, it was a terrorist act, the burning of the Reichstag (which the Nazis said was perpetrated by Communists) that justified many of the changes to the law that allowed Hitler to become a dictator, and permitted the establishment of concentration camps.
Are you saying that communist, Jew and terrorist are similar categories? Are you saying it's OK to be a terrorist? If you are, then I don't think this discussion will go anywhere. There's nothing wrong with attacking terrorism. There is something wrong with calling people terrorists if they aren't. That's the mistake the Nazis made characterizing all communists as terrorists.
Prosecuting and punishing terrorists is not the same thing as "demonizing" all communists and Jews. The Feds are going after this guy because he encouraged and threatened terrorism, not because he was an upstanding citizen who was of the wrong ethnic background or political party. Is the punishment too harsh? Quite possibly, but you are still going too far to compare this incident to the Nazi approach. I'm sure you could find much better examples of US abuse of power that really would be comparable to Nazi methods.
Citizens don't need the government's permission for everything they do or say, but the government needs the constitutions permission to restrict the actions of citizens.
If you don't believe citizens need permission from the government to kill other people or intentionally cause widespread fear and panic, you are an anarchist. I'm not "demonizing" you, just stating a fact. The Federal government is given the power to protect its citizens from enemies. I have no problem with terrorists being treated as enemies. If the government doesn't have the power to protect its citizens from enemies (including terrorists), it might as well not exist.
Is this guy a terrorist? I'm not sure, but there is at least evidence that he was headed that way.
Great, so you think that the US government's treatment of its citizens should be modelled on the British monarchy's treatment of its subjects during the war of independence? Glad we clarified that.
Yes, that's exactly what I said. Your powers of comprehension are astounding.
Since I have to spell everything out for you, maybe you'll understand this. First of all, no human government has ever been perfect and supporting a government doesn't necessarily entail supporting every decision it has ever made.
In the 1700s, many of the British American colonists decided that the British government was no longer treating them fairly or allowing them the freedom they needed and deserved. They tried to reason with Parliament and the King, to no avail. So, after much thought and deliberation, they reluctantly decided to secede.
Other colonists didn't feel it was necessary to rebel, so they considered the rebels traitors, which they were. Under English law, it was completely reasonable to jail traitors, as well as under US law. It's easy to say the rebels were right now, with 20/20 hindsight, but things weren't so clear to everyone then.
I don't fear the US government when I discuss politics, even if I criticize the government. I assume you don't either. I would fear the government if I were planning a coup or rebellion and discussing it openly. That is not a form of protected speech. I think this is still mostly a free society, though there are threats to individual freedom that can't be ignored.
Wrong - it is silly not to cry "Nazis!" when they are the best example of what can happen when words like "terrorist" are used to demonize people, justify the curtailment of free speech, and circumvent the justice system (although in the Nazi's era it was words like "communist" and "jew").
I doubt the Jews and communists would appreciate your calling them terrorists. Or were you saying that those are different things, but equally bad? Terrorism is inherently harmful to others, though being a Jew or communist isn't.
Will you call me a Nazi if I label you a "whitey"? I don't know what your background is, but it wouldn't bother me much, since that's what I am.
It sounds like Sherman advocated terrorist acts, though that doesn't necessarily make him a terrorist. Are you saying he had no association with terrorism, or are you defending terrorism itself?
Very observant, doesn't really address the point though.
I did address the point. I said your attitude made you sound like an anarchist. If you are, I wholeheartedly disagree with you, but it doesn't bother me for you to think that way as long as you don't resort to terrorism or open rebellion. If you aren't an anarchist, I was mistaken, and I'm sorry.
George Bush advocates violence in what he claims is a good cause. The founders of this country advocated violence - would you have them put in prison too?
Both statements are true, and probabaly every president has used the military at some point. I think the war in Afghanistan was necessary, but I'm not sure about the one in Iraq yet. As I go down this rabbit trail, I find it necessary to point out that the President of the US is given the position of Commander in Chief by the Constitution. If he abuses that power, he should be accountable, but Sherman never had a constitutional mandate to crack websites and encourage individuals to blow stuff (or people) up.
The founders of the US were traitors to the crown, so if I were a loyalist, I would put them in prison. Since I didn't live then, I can't guess which side I'd be on.
By the way, what is Sherman's cause? Is it just anarchy for the sake of anarchy? If he actively attempts to overthrow the US government, he is by definition a traitor and I would have no problem with his feeling the full effect of the law. He hasn't done that yet, so it's quite possible that he's being punished too harshly.
Deadly serious. Haven't you noticed the first American concentration camp off the cost of Cuba? Haven't you noticed how this camp is being used to subvert the justice system, just as they were in Nazi Germany (this was their original purpose before the wholesale slaughter of their inhabitants). Haven't you noticed the construction of execution chambers at this new American concentration camp?
So, is that where they're keeping the script kiddies now? You've completely changed the subject.
Yeah, and defacing a website is really the equivolent of beating someone senseless. It is wrong to vandalize websites, just as it is wrong to vandalize a wall, but it certainly not deserving of a year behind bars.
I'm not defending the government's side in this case. I don't know enough about it to conclude whether it's an unjust punishment or not. It may be, but it's silly to cry, "Nazis!" every time someone is unfairly punished.
Ah yes, demonize those that disagree with you, assign them labels to make it easier to treat them as non-humans, we have seen your type before.
I didn't say demon; you did. You seem to hyperbolize everything. I think that neither authoritarianism nor anarchy is good. You are free to believe in either, since we don't yet live in the former. I said you might be an anarchist because you seem willing to defend any actions punished by "the Man." The US goverment has certainly done many injustices against its citizens, as have all governments. That doesn't mean it's time to blow it up just yet. We are free to discuss it, but this guy went far beyond discussion.
How many times does it have to be reiterated that this is not simply a free speech case. This guy maliciously interfered with other people's sites and advocated violence. It's quite possible that he's being punished extra harshly to make an example, but you can't put him in the same category as the people rounded up by the Nazis just for being born and worshiping how they believed.
Are you seriously trying to compare this situation with Nazi Germany? Are you comparing being a script kiddie with being a Pole, Slav, Catholic or Jew? This guy was a vandal. Maybe defacing the sites was his form of "speech," but most societies prevent their citizens from beating each other senseless (outside the ring) to express themselves as well. Maybe you're another anarchist. Of course, that's perfectly all right as long as you don't bring anarchy to your neighbors.
Well, I was being semi-facetious. I don't know what an official definition of ADD or ADHD might be, and I'm quite sure I don't have either. I was merely referring to a general lack of patience that results from constant instant gratification. I know that some people have a more serious problem, which can be diagnosed as one of the disorders and I certainly don't mean to dismiss their seriousness.
Isn't the live performance the first attempt at a profit? Some musicians have no problem with people recording their concerts and sharing them, since it's a form of advertisement for the live show. I don't know how the same musicians feel about copies of their CDs. It's been suggested that one of the fundamental problem with the current music business is too much emphasis on profit from CDs, when more should be put on live performances.
The bare numbers by themselves are not enough to make good comparisons and conclusions. Maybe most of the places of worship are tiny shrines and most of the schools, colleges, and hospitals serve hundreds or thousands of people. Often, places of worship double as schools. Did the census take that into account?
I've also heard about stolen phone wires from my parents who live in Shell, which is in central Ecuador. For calls out of town, they typically use the satellite link provided by one of mission organizations.
The satellite link was originally only for use by the organization that operates it, but they now provide service to other mission organizations, since it's almost impossible to get new phone lines from the government telco. Of course, the government owned telephone company sees that as competition, even if it's kept within the mission community.
I'm sure that progress can be accelerated by the lack of infrastructure baggage. It can always be held back by monopolies and bureaucracy.
Exactly. Linux (the kernel) doesn't need to be concerned with stuff like that, since it can be handled from user space. That's one of the fundamental advantages *nix has over Windoze, in which the user can't even see the division between kernel and user.
That was actually a very interesting article, though I was too lazy to understand the calculus. Ever since I first learned about quantum mechanics, I've suspected that the world is really discrete rather than continuous.
What about those of us who update packages direct from the net? I downloaded one small Gentoo install ISO, but now I have many GB of source packages. What we need is a conversion factor to convert GB to pounds.
The link you tried to provide is a very incomplete and misleading explanation:
A vinyl record has a groove carved into it that mirrors the original sound's waveform. This means that no information is lost. The output of a record player is analog. It can be fed directly to your amplifier with no conversion.
If the author thinks that an analog recording loses no information, why should we listen to him? He goes on to say that DVD audio can be better than CD audio, which is correct. However, he offers no justification for why the signal to noise ratio of DVD audio and LP audio is good enough, but CD audio isn't. He just makes vague statements like: "This means that the waveforms from a vinyl recording can be much more accurate, and that can be heard in the richness of the sound." Maybe he's right, but he provided no evidence to back it up.
I think Slashdot causes ADD. Or, maybe it's just the instant gratification of the web in general. I'm not going to stoop to the redundancy of losing my train of thought like every other post here, but I do think I'm less patient that I used to be.
Thtat's right: copyright holding corporations now have their values 180 degrees out of phase with traditional ones about piracy and sharing. I'm just waiting for an edited version of Pirates of the Caribbean to appear on the P2P networks in which the protagonist pirates decide to go straight in the end.
Slashdot Mirror
Prosecuting and punishing terrorists is not the same thing as "demonizing" all communists and Jews. The Feds are going after this guy because he encouraged and threatened terrorism, not because he was an upstanding citizen who was of the wrong ethnic background or political party. Is the punishment too harsh? Quite possibly, but you are still going too far to compare this incident to the Nazi approach. I'm sure you could find much better examples of US abuse of power that really would be comparable to Nazi methods.
If you don't believe citizens need permission from the government to kill other people or intentionally cause widespread fear and panic, you are an anarchist. I'm not "demonizing" you, just stating a fact. The Federal government is given the power to protect its citizens from enemies. I have no problem with terrorists being treated as enemies. If the government doesn't have the power to protect its citizens from enemies (including terrorists), it might as well not exist.
Is this guy a terrorist? I'm not sure, but there is at least evidence that he was headed that way.
Yes, that's exactly what I said. Your powers of comprehension are astounding.
Since I have to spell everything out for you, maybe you'll understand this. First of all, no human government has ever been perfect and supporting a government doesn't necessarily entail supporting every decision it has ever made.
In the 1700s, many of the British American colonists decided that the British government was no longer treating them fairly or allowing them the freedom they needed and deserved. They tried to reason with Parliament and the King, to no avail. So, after much thought and deliberation, they reluctantly decided to secede.
Other colonists didn't feel it was necessary to rebel, so they considered the rebels traitors, which they were. Under English law, it was completely reasonable to jail traitors, as well as under US law. It's easy to say the rebels were right now, with 20/20 hindsight, but things weren't so clear to everyone then.
I don't fear the US government when I discuss politics, even if I criticize the government. I assume you don't either. I would fear the government if I were planning a coup or rebellion and discussing it openly. That is not a form of protected speech. I think this is still mostly a free society, though there are threats to individual freedom that can't be ignored.
Hey if it worked in Finland, we'd never have Linux in the first place, since Linus could have offered a goose to Andy.
Will you call me a Nazi if I label you a "whitey"? I don't know what your background is, but it wouldn't bother me much, since that's what I am.
It sounds like Sherman advocated terrorist acts, though that doesn't necessarily make him a terrorist. Are you saying he had no association with terrorism, or are you defending terrorism itself?
I did address the point. I said your attitude made you sound like an anarchist. If you are, I wholeheartedly disagree with you, but it doesn't bother me for you to think that way as long as you don't resort to terrorism or open rebellion. If you aren't an anarchist, I was mistaken, and I'm sorry.
Both statements are true, and probabaly every president has used the military at some point. I think the war in Afghanistan was necessary, but I'm not sure about the one in Iraq yet. As I go down this rabbit trail, I find it necessary to point out that the President of the US is given the position of Commander in Chief by the Constitution. If he abuses that power, he should be accountable, but Sherman never had a constitutional mandate to crack websites and encourage individuals to blow stuff (or people) up.
The founders of the US were traitors to the crown, so if I were a loyalist, I would put them in prison. Since I didn't live then, I can't guess which side I'd be on.
By the way, what is Sherman's cause? Is it just anarchy for the sake of anarchy? If he actively attempts to overthrow the US government, he is by definition a traitor and I would have no problem with his feeling the full effect of the law. He hasn't done that yet, so it's quite possible that he's being punished too harshly.
I'm not defending the government's side in this case. I don't know enough about it to conclude whether it's an unjust punishment or not. It may be, but it's silly to cry, "Nazis!" every time someone is unfairly punished.
I didn't say demon; you did. You seem to hyperbolize everything. I think that neither authoritarianism nor anarchy is good. You are free to believe in either, since we don't yet live in the former. I said you might be an anarchist because you seem willing to defend any actions punished by "the Man." The US goverment has certainly done many injustices against its citizens, as have all governments. That doesn't mean it's time to blow it up just yet. We are free to discuss it, but this guy went far beyond discussion.
How many times does it have to be reiterated that this is not simply a free speech case. This guy maliciously interfered with other people's sites and advocated violence. It's quite possible that he's being punished extra harshly to make an example, but you can't put him in the same category as the people rounded up by the Nazis just for being born and worshiping how they believed.
Are you seriously trying to compare this situation with Nazi Germany? Are you comparing being a script kiddie with being a Pole, Slav, Catholic or Jew? This guy was a vandal. Maybe defacing the sites was his form of "speech," but most societies prevent their citizens from beating each other senseless (outside the ring) to express themselves as well. Maybe you're another anarchist. Of course, that's perfectly all right as long as you don't bring anarchy to your neighbors.
Well, I was being semi-facetious. I don't know what an official definition of ADD or ADHD might be, and I'm quite sure I don't have either. I was merely referring to a general lack of patience that results from constant instant gratification. I know that some people have a more serious problem, which can be diagnosed as one of the disorders and I certainly don't mean to dismiss their seriousness.
Isn't the live performance the first attempt at a profit? Some musicians have no problem with people recording their concerts and sharing them, since it's a form of advertisement for the live show. I don't know how the same musicians feel about copies of their CDs. It's been suggested that one of the fundamental problem with the current music business is too much emphasis on profit from CDs, when more should be put on live performances.
Now that's the kind of crazy logic I was looking for.
So, what's the process for profiting from a Slashdot story?
The bare numbers by themselves are not enough to make good comparisons and conclusions. Maybe most of the places of worship are tiny shrines and most of the schools, colleges, and hospitals serve hundreds or thousands of people. Often, places of worship double as schools. Did the census take that into account?
I've also heard about stolen phone wires from my parents who live in Shell, which is in central Ecuador. For calls out of town, they typically use the satellite link provided by one of mission organizations.
The satellite link was originally only for use by the organization that operates it, but they now provide service to other mission organizations, since it's almost impossible to get new phone lines from the government telco. Of course, the government owned telephone company sees that as competition, even if it's kept within the mission community.
I'm sure that progress can be accelerated by the lack of infrastructure baggage. It can always be held back by monopolies and bureaucracy.
Exactly. Linux (the kernel) doesn't need to be concerned with stuff like that, since it can be handled from user space. That's one of the fundamental advantages *nix has over Windoze, in which the user can't even see the division between kernel and user.
Indeed; it should be in the Slashdot FAQ or something, right up there with: "Don't eat the yellow snow."
That was actually a very interesting article, though I was too lazy to understand the calculus. Ever since I first learned about quantum mechanics, I've suspected that the world is really discrete rather than continuous.
Wow, that's pretty in-depth. I was just thinking of stuff like interference, noise, and signal attenuation.
What about those of us who update packages direct from the net? I downloaded one small Gentoo install ISO, but now I have many GB of source packages. What we need is a conversion factor to convert GB to pounds.
If the author thinks that an analog recording loses no information, why should we listen to him? He goes on to say that DVD audio can be better than CD audio, which is correct. However, he offers no justification for why the signal to noise ratio of DVD audio and LP audio is good enough, but CD audio isn't. He just makes vague statements like: "This means that the waveforms from a vinyl recording can be much more accurate, and that can be heard in the richness of the sound." Maybe he's right, but he provided no evidence to back it up.
From reading these articles, I'd guess the problem was with the mixing and mastering process, not the medium itself.
I think Slashdot causes ADD. Or, maybe it's just the instant gratification of the web in general. I'm not going to stoop to the redundancy of losing my train of thought like every other post here, but I do think I'm less patient that I used to be.
That's right, ladies and gentlement, not only is Google idiot proof, it's mom proof.
Leechers can't survive without sharers. That is, they'll cease being leechers when there's nothing to leech.
You seem to know a little more about Freenet than I do; I've mainly just read about it.
Your idea sounds very similar to Freenet.
I don't find it hard to accept at all. I've seen all but the first in MP3 collections.
Thtat's right: copyright holding corporations now have their values 180 degrees out of phase with traditional ones about piracy and sharing. I'm just waiting for an edited version of Pirates of the Caribbean to appear on the P2P networks in which the protagonist pirates decide to go straight in the end.