"Unless you're trying to create sardaukar troops."
Frank Herbert was telling a good story. I'm a big fan of his novels. I don't take it as paralleling reality.
What you'd really get is very sociopathic types with little ability to trust others.
A group like that would fragment into the individuals it was, and get routed by a real army.
Maybe they'd be somewhat effective concentration camp guards, but I sorta doubt even that.
That's exactly what you don't want in a soldier. Even in armies that commit horrific atrocities (the SS for example), they were trying to build teams. Yes, teams that would unquestioningly follow orders to do horrible things, but teams nonetheless.
"1. Sitting on your couch pressing a button to show a boxing glove punch is very different from getting up and beating the shit out of a bean bag or sparing with another human."
Yeah. It's a hell of a lot poorer workout.
"2. Mike Tyson is not representative of even 10 other human beings."
A meaningless statement. Yes, he's an extreme rarity in boxing ability.
That says relatively little about his personality or impulse control ability.
Well, it was pretty directly aimed at the Palestinian National Authority. Remember, this was just after the Oslo accords were negotiated in the fall of 1993. There was concern that UN organizational memberships and the like would be used to give the PNA elements of state status before the period in which final negotiations were supposed to resolve remaining issues.
Interestingly, this wouldn't have effected UNESCO, as the US wasn't funding it at that time. That had been dropped in 1984 due to controversy over the head of UNESCO Amadou-Mahtar M'Bow and UNESCO's role in calling for the New World Information Order. In the US and Britain, elements of this were seen as being tantamount to licensing journalists and giving the right of rebuttal to governments for any stories they wrote.
M'Bow, to say the least, was a source of a great deal of controversy at that time. One example, he was criticized for corruption after he had UNESCO's headquarters remodeled to give himself two floors of it as a rent free home.
Section 410 - Prohibits U.S. contributions to any affiliated organization of the United Nations or to the United Nations if they grant full membership as a state to a group that does not have internationally recognized attributes of statehood.
The final law is actually P.L. 103-246 Title IV US Code.
Digging down into convoluted listings of the US Code is best left to someone with more legal-researcher-fu than I. But that should help someone else get started.
"The law was passed in 1994. It sounds like the administration of George H W Bush was the cause."
?
Clinton was elected in 1992 and sworn in in early 1993.
At first I thought maybe you were meaning the changeover in congressional majority. But the Republican majority in the house was elected in Novemeber 1994, but didn't take office until early 1995.
"Just like how the Republicans assimilated and neutralized the Tea Party"
Yep. Controlling the Tea Party and channeling them has been the big project of the mainstream Republicans over the past year.
The Tea Party tried to flex its newfound muscle from having a number of congress members affiliated and has had decidedly mixed results.
Populist movements from across the right/left spectrum tend to have a lot of similarities. They benefit from relatively unfocused dissatisfaction that can then be bent in particular directions.
To take an extreme example (Not comparing them to any of the current movements. They are in a class by themselves) The Nazis were noted for putting on soup kitchens and the like for the poor during the abysmal economy of the Weimar period. They had a slogan "Anyone who doesn't have a shirt can put on a brown one."
And, I'll take the exception to the Godwin rule that I was really talking about the Nazis.;)
That's one of the problems with an adhocracy. Who says he doesn't? Leaving that unclear is a wise position right now.
But, if it starts becoming clear that Soros, Buffet, and other individual and organizational benefactors (or at least useful ones) of the Democratic party are targets too, I suspect the statements of support from the Democratic politicians in general terms and the union members that have been showing up won't last for long. And I suspect the narrative that's put out by them in PR will change drastically as well. They will use Occupy as long as it's convenient and drop it like a dead mouse as soon as it isn't.
As I said, this is all things to all people at the moment. And that's an advantage. It's also a liability. You have to take both, not just one.
Why would I deny it takes less than that to live comfortably. I do on far less. In fact, oddly enough, I make a great deal less than friends of mine who are big Occupy supporters (to the point of going to the Chicago ones and doing work on them). What's even weirder is one of them is a corporate lawyer for a mega-corp. Oh well.
"I can't put words in the mouths of the protestors, since there are many things they themselves disagree on."
That's one of the reasons they're an easy target at the moment. They disagree on a lot of things. Right now, Occupy seems to be all things to all people showing up at the rallies.
Another is that they're the flavor of the month and thus have a lot of enthusiastic participants willing to say not so well chosen things to the press.
Both of those describe the Tea Party when it was first starting up. (And the Tea Party was sure the target of a lot of jibes too.)
The worst thing that can happen to them right now is for people to lose interest and stop talking or even joking about them.
Given that, I can't resist adding:
"nobody should be that filthy rich at the expense of everyone else"
But, I do wonder how that excludes Soros. He's both that filthy rich and made a good bit of his money on currency trading that didn't have a lot of good effects on others.
*shrug* I guess if you're seen to be on the proper side politically, you get a get out of jail free card with them. Or if you can't, maybe we can just go through the crowd till we find someone who does think that.;)
Slashdot Mirror
"They don't have any Republicans."
Tell that to Ireland.
"Hellish beings from another Universe will come charging through the gap "
And they'll all be named John.
"Unless you're trying to create sardaukar troops."
Frank Herbert was telling a good story. I'm a big fan of his novels. I don't take it as paralleling reality.
What you'd really get is very sociopathic types with little ability to trust others.
A group like that would fragment into the individuals it was, and get routed by a real army.
Maybe they'd be somewhat effective concentration camp guards, but I sorta doubt even that.
That's exactly what you don't want in a soldier. Even in armies that commit horrific atrocities (the SS for example), they were trying to build teams. Yes, teams that would unquestioningly follow orders to do horrible things, but teams nonetheless.
"1. Sitting on your couch pressing a button to show a boxing glove punch is very different from getting up and beating the shit out of a bean bag or sparing with another human."
Yeah. It's a hell of a lot poorer workout.
"2. Mike Tyson is not representative of even 10 other human beings."
A meaningless statement. Yes, he's an extreme rarity in boxing ability.
That says relatively little about his personality or impulse control ability.
Well, it was pretty directly aimed at the Palestinian National Authority. Remember, this was just after the Oslo accords were negotiated in the fall of 1993. There was concern that UN organizational memberships and the like would be used to give the PNA elements of state status before the period in which final negotiations were supposed to resolve remaining issues.
Interestingly, this wouldn't have effected UNESCO, as the US wasn't funding it at that time. That had been dropped in 1984 due to controversy over the head of UNESCO Amadou-Mahtar M'Bow and UNESCO's role in calling for the New World Information Order. In the US and Britain, elements of this were seen as being tantamount to licensing journalists and giving the right of rebuttal to governments for any stories they wrote.
M'Bow, to say the least, was a source of a great deal of controversy at that time. One example, he was criticized for corruption after he had UNESCO's headquarters remodeled to give himself two floors of it as a rent free home.
The US didn't resume funding UNESCO until 2002.
"....that our parents own."
A vicious lie. I don't live in a house my parents own.
I inherited it from them.
"Also - can someone post a link to this supposed 1994 law?
It was part of a spending bill covering foreing relations for 1994 and 1995:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h103-2333
Section 410 is the part in question. It's described in the legislative summary at:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h103-2333&tab=summary
Text:
Section 410 -
Prohibits U.S. contributions to any affiliated organization of the United Nations or to the United Nations if they grant full membership as a state to a group that does not have internationally recognized attributes of statehood.
The final law is actually P.L. 103-246 Title IV US Code.
Digging down into convoluted listings of the US Code is best left to someone with more legal-researcher-fu than I. But that should help someone else get started.
"The law was passed in 1994. It sounds like the administration of George H W Bush was the cause."
?
Clinton was elected in 1992 and sworn in in early 1993.
At first I thought maybe you were meaning the changeover in congressional majority. But the Republican majority in the house was elected in Novemeber 1994, but didn't take office until early 1995.
Microsoft: All your files^h^h^h^h^hdata are belong to us!
"When is John McCarthy day?"
Most people aren't sure if he's the caricature with the hand up his butt from the 1950s or the congressman from the 1950s.
Oh wait. I repeat myself.
Seriously, though a number of the pioneers of computing are leaving us or soon will be.
"Dennis Ritchie Day = Fuck Steve Jobs Day"
Only if you're a necrophiliac. He's been dead for several weeks.
Is there a security patrol at the cemetery he's in? They might not like the idea.
"Just like how the Republicans assimilated and neutralized the Tea Party"
Yep. Controlling the Tea Party and channeling them has been the big project of the mainstream Republicans over the past year.
The Tea Party tried to flex its newfound muscle from having a number of congress members affiliated and has had decidedly mixed results.
Populist movements from across the right/left spectrum tend to have a lot of similarities. They benefit from relatively unfocused dissatisfaction that can then be bent in particular directions.
To take an extreme example (Not comparing them to any of the current movements. They are in a class by themselves) The Nazis were noted for putting on soup kitchens and the like for the poor during the abysmal economy of the Weimar period. They had a slogan "Anyone who doesn't have a shirt can put on a brown one."
And, I'll take the exception to the Godwin rule that I was really talking about the Nazis. ;)
"Who said Soros has a get-out-of-jail-free card?"
That's one of the problems with an adhocracy. Who says he doesn't? Leaving that unclear is a wise position right now.
But, if it starts becoming clear that Soros, Buffet, and other individual and organizational benefactors (or at least useful ones) of the Democratic party are targets too, I suspect the statements of support from the Democratic politicians in general terms and the union members that have been showing up won't last for long. And I suspect the narrative that's put out by them in PR will change drastically as well. They will use Occupy as long as it's convenient and drop it like a dead mouse as soon as it isn't.
As I said, this is all things to all people at the moment. And that's an advantage. It's also a liability. You have to take both, not just one.
Why would I deny it takes less than that to live comfortably. I do on far less. In fact, oddly enough, I make a great deal less than friends of mine who are big Occupy supporters (to the point of going to the Chicago ones and doing work on them). What's even weirder is one of them is a corporate lawyer for a mega-corp. Oh well.
"I can't put words in the mouths of the protestors, since there are many things they themselves disagree on."
That's one of the reasons they're an easy target at the moment. They disagree on a lot of things. Right now, Occupy seems to be all things to all people showing up at the rallies.
Another is that they're the flavor of the month and thus have a lot of enthusiastic participants willing to say not so well chosen things to the press.
Both of those describe the Tea Party when it was first starting up. (And the Tea Party was sure the target of a lot of jibes too.)
The worst thing that can happen to them right now is for people to lose interest and stop talking or even joking about them.
Given that, I can't resist adding:
"nobody should be that filthy rich at the expense of everyone else"
But, I do wonder how that excludes Soros. He's both that filthy rich and made a good bit of his money on currency trading that didn't have a lot of good effects on others.
*shrug* I guess if you're seen to be on the proper side politically, you get a get out of jail free card with them. Or if you can't, maybe we can just go through the crowd till we find someone who does think that. ;)
"But I think the Chinese government is opressive and overly controlling. Allegedly."
It's just a malicious rumor with no basis in fact. And we'll arrest anyone who says otherwise.
I thought we already had Government 2.0.
Is this a new release or just a bug fix?
You mean BookFace has found yet another niche demographic to appeal to?
The "like" button is replaced by "offer candy to"?
"grep for kibo"
I thought that the current activist meme was that wealth was a bad thing...
These change so often over the years. I have trouble keeping up with them.
It's a bit like tropical oils as opposed to hydrogenated. They were ok, then evil, now they're ok again. *shrug*
Loath as I am to take someone with a subgenius username as not being in it just for the yucks...
Let's look at his highly refined contribution to debate: "dogma-hogs...US bullshit and crap eaters of politicians, C*Os, clergy ...."
Oh well. Sounds a lot like the name calling I here for the far right and religious fundies.
Why should I give this much more weight than I give them?
Oh. Because you know that yours is "right". Funny. They think the same thing about theirs.
I agree. Scientific results shouldn't be used just for making political points and name calling.
Like you immediately do with it in a slightly back door way.
It should have said misread the summary.
This is why you shouldn't post when home sick from work. The results are a lot like posting while drunk. It's just a lot less pleasant.
"The New Reading?"
Nah. Just the same old stupid human. ;)
My bad. I misread the article.
Regarding the summary:
When I learned arithmetic, 3 to 5 thousand remaining was not "all".